Relatable with Allie Beth Stuckey - Ep 1276 ｜ TPUSA Fact-Checks Candace Owens. Are Things About to Get Ugly？

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00:01:03.540 Owens are now going head-to-head in a fact-finding mission in the effort to bring the truth to light

00:01:10.840 about Charlie Kirk's assassination. We've got the details on that back and forth today. Also,

00:01:17.080 we are talking to Alliance Defending Freedom and a woman named Amy who directs a pregnancy center in

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00:02:15.200 Hey, guys. Welcome to Relatable. Happy Monday. I know this audio sounds terrible. I tried to get

00:02:21.380 my at-home mic to work and I just didn't have the proper apparatus set up. So I apologize. Please

00:02:28.720 bear with me. It will be much better on Wednesday and Friday of this week. Thank you guys so much for

00:02:34.080 watching and listening. If you love this show, please subscribe to us on YouTube. We just crossed

00:02:40.280 700K, which is super exciting. Thank you all so much to those of you who have subscribed for so

00:02:47.040 long or new subscribers. Make sure you subscribe on Spotify and on Apple as well. Leave us a five-star

00:02:52.860 review. It really helps us out. It allows us to continue giving you this show for free. On Monday,

00:02:58.940 I like to remind my audience that God's eternal plan of redemption is always going off without a hitch.

00:03:04.440 Nothing takes him aback. Nothing surprises him. Nothing throws him off, but he is always working

00:03:09.760 all things, all things together for the good of those who love him, who are called according to

00:03:14.920 his purpose. And speaking of that, if you haven't listened to Friday's episode with Lindsay, she

00:03:21.380 escaped a cult called The Way in Minnesota. She found life and freedom in Christ. Her testimony,

00:03:28.620 while disturbing at parts, is so incredibly redemptive and encouraging. I know how much you guys love

00:03:35.620 testimonies. I love testimonies. It's one of my favorite parts of my job that I get to hear people's

00:03:40.820 stories of how God just captured their hearts in very dark circumstances. It's such a good reminder

00:03:46.660 to me that God's work isn't always making headlines. It's not always going viral when it seems like he's

00:03:51.960 just doing one thing. He's actually doing a million things and he is seeking and saving the lost at

00:03:57.440 whatever cost. So go listen to or watch on YouTube. Uh, Lindsay story. It's just amazing. All right.

00:04:04.980 We've got a few things to get to today. It's going to be a little bit different. The episode is going

00:04:09.920 to be broken up by a quick interview with Aaron Hawley from Alliance Defending Freedom and Amy Huber,

00:04:15.140 who is the director of a pregnancy center in New Jersey that has been targeted by their Democrat

00:04:20.340 attorney general. But first I wanted to give you an update on what is going on with Candace Owens

00:04:25.920 and Turning Point USA. You will remember a couple of weeks ago, I did an episode where I detailed

00:04:32.380 from my Christian perspective, what I think is wrong with Candace Owens is methods of, uh, trying to 1.00

00:04:42.100 find out who really killed Charlie Kirk. Um, her podcast series has been more of a drip campaign with

00:04:50.320 pieces of information and hunches alleging that certain people are implicated in a plot to kill

00:04:58.300 Charlie. And while I completely am on board with figuring out the truth and bringing justice to

00:05:06.700 light. And while I agree with questioning anything that the media runs with, or that the government

00:05:13.020 says, I think that there is a righteous way to do that. And I think that there is a wrong way to do

00:05:19.280 that. How I would describe what's going on now is this. So on last Wednesday's episode of the Charlie

00:05:26.520 Kirk show producer, Blake Knapp addressed Candace Owens's podcast series, where she surmises based on

00:05:32.800 bits of information and hunches who killed Charlie. And I would say that's totally an objective

00:05:38.140 description. Every episode, she alludes to secret sources, to having more information than she's

00:05:44.260 letting on to finally finding a missing piece of the puzzle. That's going to bring this all together.

00:05:49.960 Um, but we're not typically told in this podcast series, how the information or her conclusions

00:05:55.480 logically and factually fit together. Um, her audience relies on her intuition, her knowledge,

00:06:03.340 pieces of information that kind of have to be glued together by the conclusion that Candace

00:06:08.060 has put forth that Charlie was betrayed by turning point and that Israel was somehow involved in his

00:06:14.800 assassination. And within this narrative, she's implicated, as I said, uh, some people, she said

00:06:20.900 that Charlie's chief of staff, whose name is Mikey McCoy has had a pep in his step because he was

00:06:27.440 according to her told that he was going to be some kind of heir to turning point. She has accused Josh

00:06:33.900 hammer. It's a villain of being a part of some kind of nefarious pressure campaign to get Charlie to

00:06:39.900 unconditionally support Israel, which Candace claims, as I said, was a big part of Charlie's death. Um, she 0.52

00:06:47.700 doesn't believe that the suspect in this case actually killed Charlie. We try to avoid using the names of

00:06:55.500 suspects in cases like this because they are typically looking for notoriety. Uh, Candace believes that she 0.62

00:07:01.340 is trying to get to the bottom of it. And of course I believe that she loves Charlie. I believe that they

00:07:08.500 had a sincere, um, friendship when things first started, I think it was seven or eight years ago. And I

00:07:15.960 believe that her mourning is totally genuine. Um, but she does seem to believe that virtually everyone

00:07:25.980 close to Charlie stabbed him in the back and that it is her cause to take up finding out how this

00:07:34.320 happened and who actually was involved. And she seems to believe also that Charlie had surrounded himself

00:07:41.720 with very bad people. And I guess that he was just too naive to see that for himself and that that led

00:07:48.540 to his murder. Now in the midst of this, she has released text messages between her and Charlie, some

00:07:54.020 of them very negative about Ben Shapiro. The other day she published a text between her and Charlie

00:08:00.560 again from seven or so years ago where he was asking her advice and what to wear on a date with this

00:08:07.500 girl that she says he was in love with that apparently was not Erica. And so I did that

00:08:14.080 episode a couple of weeks ago, just explaining my problem with the direction and this method. It's

00:08:20.660 not that I have an issue with asking questions at all. I have an issue, however, with evidence-less

00:08:27.180 accusations. There is no evidence that Mikey McCoy was happy about Charlie's death. And I think that's a

00:08:33.560 very dark and deeply offensive accusation to make without proof. And I also believe I'm a Christian.

00:08:40.080 This is a Christian podcast, and we're always bringing the biblical perspective on this. I believe

00:08:44.780 it's downright simple. I think that the biblical term for that is called reviling or slander and revilers,

00:08:52.020 those who maliciously lie about someone. It's a really big deal. The Lord lists it in a list of other

00:08:58.380 sins in 1 Corinthians 6. And I also want to remember for myself, Proverbs 18, 21, that death

00:09:05.380 and life are in the power of the tongue, and those who love it will eat its fruits. Oh my goodness,

00:09:13.000 Lord, please help me as a professional talker remember that every single day our tongue is so

00:09:19.380 powerful. What we say has a real impact. I also just see no evidence that Israel or any of its supporters

00:09:26.340 were involved in Charlie's tragic assassination. I am always open to evidence, but nothing so far,

00:09:32.880 nothing so far, not the Egyptian planes, not the fact that his friends pushed back on Charlie's

00:09:37.540 shifting views has been proof of this accusation. I don't see evidence that those closest to Charlie

00:09:42.880 at turning point betrayed him. Those people knew him and loved him a lot better than we did, than anyone

00:09:51.080 did. Erica, his wife, loved and knew him better than anyone. So I just have a hard time believing

00:09:56.760 that they are not the actual ones doing everything that they can to pursue truth and justice for Charlie

00:10:05.020 without jeopardizing, of course, a fair trial for the suspect. That's a very important part of all of

00:10:10.680 this. So I just want my audience, whether you agree with that or not, whether you're a fan of Candace or

00:10:16.360 not, I want you to keep those things in mind that innuendo is not investigation because a true

00:10:22.060 investigation asks questions based on hard evidence and then releases the proven facts as they come.

00:10:29.820 It is not publishing every theory and fragmented piece of information as a podcast series. Those two

00:10:35.800 things are not the same. Now, many of us have been wondering, okay, is turning point going to respond to

00:10:41.680 some of these claims that are being made, not just by Candace, but by others. There are a lot of

00:10:47.620 conspiracies that have been floating around about turning point, sadly about Erica. And we've been

00:10:53.860 wondering, are they going to address these directly? And it was kind of starting to feel like, just to be

00:10:58.620 honest, okay, like a whole lot of us are putting it on the line, trying to push back against some of

00:11:03.920 these things, correcting the record, knowing that there will be blowback. But turning point, although they are

00:11:11.280 kind of fact-checking things implicitly, subliminally, they are not saying this person said this and this

00:11:17.220 is why this is wrong. However, that has changed. And Blake Nath, who is a producer on Charlie's show,

00:11:24.480 he delivered a monologue last Wednesday, kind of explaining their reasoning for why they hadn't

00:11:30.260 said anything explicitly thus far and why that is changing. Here is SOT 12.

00:11:35.220 For months, we have received hundreds, thousands, I suspect, emails and calls asking us to respond.

00:11:42.560 People have wanted us to invite Candace on the show. But for a long time, our approach was to say

00:11:48.580 nothing. We did that for several reasons. First, we thought that her prevarications were so absurd

00:11:54.860 that nobody would believe them. We shouldn't have to answer questions about secret tunnels or Egyptian 1.00

00:12:01.200 Air Force planes. That sort of thing is just, it's beneath contempt to respond to. The second reason

00:12:07.540 we've said so little, though, is because there's a good rule of thumb, which Charlie followed.

00:12:11.860 Do not feed the trolls. Focus on the mission. Reviving America. Uplifting young people. Making

00:12:17.100 heaven crowded. Don't give air to people who want to tear you down and sow discord. Lastly, we didn't

00:12:24.400 respond because Charlie always viewed Candace as a friend and we were holding out hope that she would

00:12:32.400 return that friendship and stop what she was doing. So Candace seems to feel that she is being a good

00:12:41.380 friend to Charlie by trying to figure out whodunit. The other perspective on that is that in the midst

00:12:48.800 of that supposed effort, she is destroying, some would say, the fruit of his labor that he tried so

00:12:57.840 hard to bring together a Republican coalition to vote Republican, to vote for the better, more

00:13:05.440 freedom-minded candidate, even if we disagreed on a variety of things. And he did that through turning

00:13:11.280 point. And he did that by turning out the vote, by chasing ballots, by trying to figure out, okay,

00:13:18.080 what do we agree on? What materials for this edifice of America do we agree on so we can actually

00:13:24.320 build something? And that is just juxtaposed with how progressives do things, which is,

00:13:30.600 well, let's just, it doesn't matter what materials we're using as long as we are tearing the thing

00:13:35.660 down. Much more difficult to build than to destroy because you have to agree on materials. And right now,

00:13:42.040 in the wake of Charlie's death, we are seeing that, oh, like we don't have, there are a lot of

00:13:47.580 different factions, a lot of different fragments that we don't agree on what the foundation should

00:13:52.140 look like. And Charlie was kind of holding a lot of that together. And he was holding that together

00:13:57.640 through turning point. And he worked so hard. He sprinted his race until he was 30, 32 years old,

00:14:05.900 and God called him home. And I think turning point probably feels, I don't know, that, wow,

00:14:12.040 everything that Charlie built and tried to do is being undermined and is being questioned by this

00:14:18.860 person who is potentially implicating turning point itself in Charlie's murder. And so I understand

00:14:25.940 why they feel now a need to defend themselves. Blake said later that Erica kind of signed off on his

00:14:32.260 statement, signed off on their efforts to fact check. And so now they're scheduling a time

00:14:37.340 to actually fact check, uh, live and they invited Candace to be a part of that. I'll get into that

00:14:44.200 back and forth just a little bit, because I just want to make sure that, you know, who said what,

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00:16:00.740 So he listed in his monologue, some of the theories that Candace Owens has put forth

00:16:09.240 details of training points, uh, Utah Valley university were unusual. That's something that

00:16:14.740 Candace claimed. And that's something that I personally refuted because I have experienced

00:16:19.500 and like campus stops in the past. She suggested that the, um, assassination was quote, an inside job.

00:16:26.260 This is what Blake now, uh, claimed. Uh, he also addressed the assertion that Charlie security team

00:16:32.600 intentionally denied him first aid after he was shot. Uh, he also listed the assertion that foreign

00:16:38.980 aircrafts, specifically Egyptian planes have followed Erica Kirk all around the country. Uh, Mikey McCoy knew

00:16:45.600 Charlie Kirk was going to be murdered, but covered it up. That is Blake saying something that he says,

00:16:52.520 Candace said, um, and was happy about Charlie Kirk's death. Here's what he had to say specifically on

00:16:58.940 that one. So one, she has suggested that Michael McCoy, Charlie's chief of staff knew Charlie would

00:17:04.420 be murdered, was happy that he died and stayed silent because he was told he would be the next

00:17:09.760 Charlie. She has suggested Michael is not his real name. It is. I have seen his birth certificate

00:17:15.380 myself. She has called it suspicious that Mikey's wife who works at turning point helped plan the

00:17:21.400 campus tour event where Charlie was murdered, which she didn't, by the way, she doesn't work on campus 0.98

00:17:26.400 events. Okay. Um, he also addresses her claim that turning point funds were unaccounted for.

00:17:35.620 And basically I think that if this were true, then that would be a criticism of Charlie's leadership

00:17:41.920 and his responsibility. Uh, but here's what Blake now has to say about that. So too,

00:17:47.020 she has made claims of financial impropriety and fraud at turning point, adding up into the millions

00:17:52.040 of dollars, which again is not true. Charlie made sure the organization was audited by a third party

00:17:58.140 every year. He personally reviewed and he signed off on every expense report and literally every single

00:18:05.300 bill paid by the organization down to a single United States dollar. We have never missed a nine

00:18:11.900 90 deadline. Okay. So Blake Nath said that turning point staffers were receiving more hate from

00:18:20.060 Candace's followers than Antifa. And I, I do know that there are people that are calling turning point.

00:18:26.800 I don't know if it's every day. I don't know how often it is. It wouldn't surprise me if it were ever,

00:18:31.000 if it was every day, uh, people calling and saying, I'm no longer donating to turning point because

00:18:36.120 I think TPUSA is involved in his murder somehow, or they're not being transparent enough. And so

00:18:43.600 they're really being impacted by these theories. Um, so he also said that on Monday, December 15th,

00:18:52.940 that they are going to do a live stream going claim by claim and debunking them, which I think

00:18:58.480 is the best thing to do. And hopefully like Candace would support this too, like, because she has a

00:19:05.520 huge audience. She's incredibly influential and impactful. If she's going to make these claims,

00:19:10.460 it is only fair for turning point to respond. Not me, not all of these people who cared about

00:19:16.880 Charlie outside of the turning point, but turning point themselves. And so they are going to do this.

00:19:21.780 And Blake Neff says, Candace is welcome to join, not as like an interviewee or as a debater or even

00:19:29.760 as a guest, but just welcome to join into the live stream. And I guess, ask whatever questions or

00:19:35.040 bring whatever counterpoints she wants. Here's top three. 0.67

00:19:38.560 Candace has mentioned several times that the ball is in our court. So here's what is going to happen

00:19:44.600 in the near future. There will be a live stream here in Phoenix, where we address in a clear and

00:19:50.900 comprehensive way, the claims and accusations, the false accusations that have been made against

00:19:56.520 Charlie's family, friends, and the people here at turning point. We plan to walk through everything

00:20:01.960 carefully and thoroughly. If Candace is available, we would sincerely welcome her participation

00:20:07.360 in that live stream at our studio here in Phoenix. At this point, we believe the ball is back in her court.

00:20:15.260 Okay. So I think that's direct. That's great. He made the parameters, which they are allowed to do.

00:20:23.940 Some people think that it's wrong how they did this. Like maybe they should have reached out to her

00:20:28.020 scene when she was available. I don't think so. Like, I think that they did this the right way.

00:20:34.460 This is what they're going to do. This is the time that they're going to do it. And she's welcome to

00:20:39.400 join if she can or not. So this is what Blake Neff posted after he posted this monologue on X. He

00:20:45.460 said, the live stream we announced on the show Wednesday has been set at 4 p.m. Eastern, 2 p.m.

00:20:49.700 local time. That's Phoenix time on Monday, December 15th. A collection of Charlie's friends will respond

00:20:54.160 to statements made by Candace to set the record straight once and for all prior to the opening of

00:21:00.000 America Fest. We'll be live streaming from Charlie's Phoenix studio. Our offer from yesterday holds.

00:21:04.240 If Candace wishes to join us in person in Phoenix, she is welcome to do so. She can let us know

00:21:10.040 by the end of the day. And I think that's fair. Like I think a totally fair parameter is that

00:21:16.080 something is done in person because when something is done remotely, and I'm not even saying this is

00:21:22.880 always nefarious or always malicious. This is just true. This is the way things can be. If you are doing

00:21:29.360 an interview in your own studio with your own earpiece, with your own producers, your producers

00:21:34.380 can feed you things. Your producers can tell you, hey, here's the answer to this or bring up this

00:21:39.220 statistic. Again, I'm not saying that it's always nefarious and bad and wrong, but if you are trying

00:21:46.440 to have like the most beneficial and productive conversation possible, I do think something face

00:21:54.100 to face where you're all privy to the same information that's right in front of you, I do

00:21:59.720 think that that is like the most conducive to actually a good, formidable discussion.

00:22:07.080 Now, Candace responded to this. She said, kind of weird how you didn't email or call me to ask about

00:22:12.160 times or availability and chose instead to tweet this confirmation out at midnight. Why am I learning

00:22:17.800 about this on X? December 15th does not work in person and 2 p.m. PT is also the literal time I do

00:22:24.180 my podcast live every day, which you knew, but we will happily cancel the daily podcast and we'll join

00:22:29.860 you guys virtually instead for the live stream on the 15th. If that works on your end, let's lock it

00:22:35.720 in. So she's saying she can't do it in person, but she could possibly do it virtually. She said,

00:22:41.520 we'll also add that I'm happy to jump on Charlie's show any day before then virtually as well. I was

00:22:45.660 serious when I said we could do it today. Even virtually, I can make it happen pretty much any day

00:22:49.800 because it's easier to move things around with the kids and find someone to sub for my morning

00:22:55.460 homeschooling. I saw some people highlight that sub for my morning homeschooling. I don't know. I think

00:23:03.380 her oldest is four. And so I think that it's totally fine to say no, like I can't come in person and

00:23:10.700 that's not like a reason I can come, but, or like, you know, there are a variety of reasons I

00:23:15.720 can't come, but this has been something that has dominated her content and seemingly her life for

00:23:21.940 the past few months. And it does seem like this would be such a huge opportunity if she feels like

00:23:27.440 she has the facts that are uncovering who really murdered like one of her best friends. It seems like

00:23:34.380 this is like an incredible opportunity to be able to present her case. Like if what she wants is truth

00:23:41.160 and justice and transparency, the opportunity to be face to face with some of the people that are

00:23:47.820 in at least involved in the betrayal of Charlie Kirk, as she alleges. I mean, that is huge. It just seems

00:23:55.580 like if this is something that has been so central to your energy and your focus for the past few months,

00:24:03.300 then you would drop absolutely anything to be there. And just to say, look, here's my evidence.

00:24:09.080 Here are my points. And I am going to hold you guys accountable right now. Like that would be

00:24:13.280 really, really important. Um, on Friday, Neff explains the invitation was for an in-person

00:24:19.240 appearance, not virtual for the sake of authenticity and detail. I always try to do as many like in-person

00:24:26.900 interviews when it's something that's really important, especially a debate. I haven't always done that.

00:24:32.380 You could find virtual interviews and debates that I've done, but it's so much better in person.

00:24:37.220 Like when you can really interact with someone and you all kind of have the same things in front of

00:24:41.440 you, you're all hearing the same things. Um, here's what Candace said. Um, she responded to the original

00:24:48.440 offer, uh, of like, yeah, let's do this. Let's have you join SOP 5. So when you extend an invitation

00:24:54.500 of live streaming and you don't explicitly say it must be in person, why would I assume that you're

00:25:00.640 going to rescind the offer if I say that I can appear via live stream? Okay. They never said that

00:25:07.420 when they made the offer and they were pretending that they were being sincere. They never made in-person

00:25:12.800 a point of their demands. Um, they never also said that I had to respond within 24 hours. That's a hostage

00:25:20.160 situation. Okay.

00:25:21.260 Okay. So that's how she feels about that. That's fine. Um, and she said, now she did say at one point,

00:25:30.400 like any day, anytime I will do this. She was really excited. It seemed like when she got the

00:25:37.260 initial invitation. Um, but then she said, you know, no, I, I can't do this in, in person. Here's

00:25:45.780 about six, 24 hours to respond. How about, Hmm, let me see if I can make that work. Even if I could

00:25:51.500 have made it work, which I couldn't have, because my husband instantly said, no, you cannot do this

00:25:55.280 Monday. Um, and he runs the household and he has an important thing going on that day, which involves

00:26:02.020 people that are coming in from overseas. But even if I could have made that work, I would not have 1.00

00:26:07.040 within 24 hours have confirmed to them if they had even sent me an email because I have kids. I would

00:26:11.240 have had organized things and it would have just taken longer than 24 hours. And they knew that.

00:26:16.600 So as of right now, this may change as the day goes on. Blake and F has not responded to

00:26:20.960 Candace Owens' new terms. Um, even though she said the ball is in his court, I have no idea. I don't

00:26:28.560 have any insider information about what's going to happen next. Um, I think it's good that they are

00:26:33.500 going to go through the claims and fact check them. I'm sad that they feel like they have to do this.

00:26:37.980 Um, that this is kind of being waged in the court of public opinion. I am sure that they would have

00:26:43.260 loved everyone to kind of keep quiet for a little bit, just so that the justice system can do what

00:26:48.820 the justice system is supposed to do. And as the trial goes on, ask questions about the veracity of

00:26:54.560 the claims being made, the arguments by the prosecution and the defense. I don't think it's

00:26:59.120 wrong again to say, well, this doesn't add up or this seems weird or this seems strange, or is this

00:27:03.980 true? And then to dig for truth. I don't think innuendo driven implication of people that you

00:27:09.700 don't have any evidence for their involvement is okay. I really just don't. Um, there are some Bible 1.00

00:27:15.220 verses that come to mind on this, uh, Proverbs 26, 20 for lack of wood, the fire goes out and where

00:27:20.860 there is no whisper quarreling ceases. Gossip fuels conflict, innuendo drives viewership, um, refusing to

00:27:29.880 spread that and trying as best we can to stick to what is biblically and logically and factually

00:27:35.800 true actually extinguishes unnecessary division. Sometimes division is worth it if it happens in

00:27:43.920 the pursuit of what is good, right, and true. Um, but you know, Charlie always said there are some

00:27:49.220 people that build and there are some people that simply destroy. Look at the fruit of someone's life.

00:27:54.880 Look at the fruit of someone's ministry. Can you look at something and say, wow, they've built

00:27:59.340 something. Or do you look at the fruit of their ministry and say, well, there's only division.

00:28:04.680 There's only chaos. There's only confusion. There's only gossip there. And when I look at the fruit of

00:28:12.420 that, when I look and ask is, has that person built something? The answer is no. I think that's

00:28:18.300 really important for all of us. Um, that's, you know, something when I look at something like

00:28:23.600 not just turning point, but when I look at share the arrows, or when I look at like the other

00:28:28.520 ministries that people have started, like apologetics ministries, like what Frank Turek does, I'm just so

00:28:33.700 thankful for the Holy spirit and how he allows us to build. If we would simply follow his precepts,

00:28:42.640 Proverbs 18, 17, the one who states his case first seems right until the other comes and examines him.

00:28:48.240 Public accusations require discernment, not instant judgment, not hunches, not vibes.

00:28:54.360 Ephesians 4, 29, let no corrupting talk come out of your mouths, but only such as is good for

00:28:58.980 building up as fits the occasion that it may give grace to those who hear. Proverbs 20, 19,

00:29:06.520 whoever goes about slandering, reveal secrets. Therefore do not associate with a simple

00:29:11.260 babbler. So God warns against partnering with those who amplify unverified claims.

00:29:18.160 And we've probably all been guilty of that at one time or another. I've been

00:29:21.660 guilty of that. And we just need to acknowledge that sin. And we need to repent of that sin.

00:29:27.100 James 1, 19, know this, my beloved brothers, let every person be quick to hear, slow to speak

00:29:32.360 and slow to become angry. Good lessons for all of us. All right. Now we are going to have an interview

00:29:40.520 with Aaron Hawley and Amy Huber, the state of pregnancy centers, the fight that pregnancy centers

00:29:45.740 are having to wage in blue states just to be able to stay open. Darkness hates the light and they will

00:29:52.820 do whatever it takes, even legal means to try to destroy that light. But before we get into that,

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00:30:53.060 Amy and Erin, thank you all so much for joining me. Amy, I'm going to start with you. Tell us about

00:30:58.600 your pregnancy center and then when you got notified of this subpoena by the AG.

00:31:03.920 Amy. Sure, Allie. Thank you so much for having me. We have served women and their families for 40

00:31:10.100 years. We have five locations in New Jersey and women who are scared and vulnerable and think that

00:31:16.700 abortion is their only option can come to us and receive professional services and compassionate

00:31:21.940 care all free of charge. We have served over 36,000 women and their families in the last 40 years.

00:31:29.240 Wow. So I guess our story with this legal battle started a little over two years ago when a

00:31:36.400 representative from the attorney general's office of our state came to my office and handed me a

00:31:42.060 subpoena. It commanded us to release up to 10 years of documentation on our donor communications,

00:31:49.860 our advertising, our statements about abortion pill reversal, and even our donors' identities and

00:31:55.720 their contact information. It was very daunting and very overwhelming. Yeah, I can imagine. My goodness.

00:32:03.980 Okay, so First Choice Women's Resource Centers. Before we get into this legal battle, can you tell us a 0.75

00:32:08.840 little bit more about the specific services you offer? Certainly. We provide free pregnancy tests,

00:32:15.200 medical confirmation of pregnancy via ultrasound, options counseling, and a whole host of material

00:32:20.660 services to support a woman through her pregnancy and after the birth of her baby. And have you ever

00:32:27.160 been in conflict with state or local authorities who tried to hinder your mission at all? No, never.

00:32:36.240 This is the first time. So it felt very out of the blue, I'm sure. It did feel out of the blue. And yet

00:32:42.360 the attack on pregnancy centers in New Jersey had been ramping up the year prior because the Division of

00:32:50.200 Consumer Affairs issued a consumer alert warning the public about, quote-unquote, deceptive crisis

00:32:56.020 pregnancy centers. So we saw that and we were responding to that. So when the subpoena came,

00:33:03.340 it definitely felt more personal, but not a huge shock. Right. Okay. Erin, tell us first,

00:33:11.920 let's just get down to brass tacks. What is a subpoena? Sure. So a subpoena is actually Latin for the

00:33:18.040 phrase under penalty. And when you look at the subpoena that Amy received, you can see why it

00:33:23.900 twice threatens that if she fails to hand over these 10 years, you know, up to 10 years worth of

00:33:29.640 documentation, including her donor names, their phone numbers, addresses, and their places of present

00:33:35.340 and past employment. If she doesn't just give all of that to the attorney general, the subpoena

00:33:39.720 threatens that she and her organization could be subject to contempt, as well as a possible loss of

00:33:45.180 license to do business. So it is a legal document that on its face threatens recipients in New Jersey

00:33:51.820 with really dramatic consequences if they don't comply. Wow. What are the consequences?

00:33:58.960 So the statute lists several of them. One is being held in contempt of court. One of them is losing

00:34:04.680 their business license. If you, you can, your advertisements can be shut down. And the statute

00:34:12.160 also sort of opens it up any other penalty that the court considers necessary until the party,

00:34:18.060 quote, obeys the subpoena. So a really strong regime encouraging people to comply with subpoenas.

00:34:26.320 Wow. Okay. Are there other pregnancy centers in New Jersey who have received the subpoena as well?

00:34:31.640 We know of at least one other one, but it has had ramifications even beyond these two centers.

00:34:38.120 One of the amicus briefs submitted in the case detailed that a third center had actually lost

00:34:44.000 their medical director because of the subpoenas. They were worried that their other business might

00:34:49.560 be impacted by their association with the pregnancy care center. So the medical director resigned upon

00:34:54.740 hearing about the subpoenas. And quite frankly, that seems to have been the whole point. The attorney

00:34:59.920 general of Missouri, or excuse me, of New Jersey, as Amy said, has, you know, issued consumer alerts

00:35:08.160 against pregnancy centers. He has warned women to beware of pregnancy centers. And so this idea of sort

00:35:15.220 of scaring them into silence seems to be part of the point here. So what is the response to people

00:35:21.980 who say, well, you know, it's not like he is stopping them from functioning. He's just trying to look out for

00:35:29.000 the consumer and look out for potential clients by making them be as transparent as possible and

00:35:34.540 just tell the truth about what they offer. That's all that's going on here. What would be the response

00:35:39.440 to that, Erin? So I think two responses. One is Justice Thomas brought out an oral argument. There has

00:35:45.040 never been a complaint identified by the attorney general against first choice. There simply is no

00:35:52.220 allegation that anyone has been misled by first choice. And then second, the attorney general says,

00:35:59.380 you know, donors might have been confused. They might have thought that they were donating to

00:36:03.080 Planned Parenthood rather than to a center that helps women and children. And that's just doesn't 0.63

00:36:11.280 pass the straight face test. When you look at the donation page, it has pictures of smiling babies and

00:36:17.260 families. Realistically, no one would think that was a donation page for Planned Parenthood.

00:36:23.200 It's clearly an organization that supports both women and children.

00:36:27.580 Yeah. And that doesn't even make any sense considering the names aren't even close. I guess

00:36:32.320 if you could say someone was completely illiterate, could not see, then I guess anything is possible.

00:36:37.920 But that seems far-fetched to me. Amy, what effect has this had thus far on your center as far as your

00:36:45.880 personnel and your ability to serve the women in crisis in your area?

00:36:50.780 I would say another penalty of the subpoena that Erin didn't mention is just the fact that

00:36:56.780 the sheer overwhelming task of complying with the subpoena when you're a small nonprofit is

00:37:05.280 completely overwhelming. I can't even quantify the hours or the staff it would take or anything else.

00:37:13.040 It would be just so difficult. And really, that's the harm right there, right? Because it would take

00:37:18.580 away from our mission of serving women. So how has it affected us? There are certainly

00:37:24.540 volunteers who have not volunteered because of our legal battle. They have come and expressed interest,

00:37:34.380 but have actually told us, you know what, maybe when this comes down, then I can join you and I'll

00:37:39.940 volunteer. It's hard to imagine how many women haven't come to us because when you Google first

00:37:46.300 choice, they just see a legal battle. So when you're scared and vulnerable, I'm not sure if I were them

00:37:52.400 that I would go to an organization like that. And then, of course, the chill that can perhaps exist for

00:38:00.760 potential donors as well in terms of wanting to donate to an organization with our mission and yet

00:38:09.060 wondering how that could be affected by a legal battle as well.

00:38:14.820 So this is what's meant by the chilling effect or part of what's meant. Of course, it has a chilling

00:38:20.900 effect in a lot of ways. You have other pregnancy centers who I'm sure are scared to advertise or try 0.94

00:38:26.480 to get people into their door because they're afraid this is going to happen to them. But as you just

00:38:30.620 said, it also chills other people. It scares other people off from helping, from donating because

00:38:38.140 they look and they see the word subpoena and they think, well, they must have done something wrong.

00:38:44.280 And in all of that, it just makes me think that the process is the punishment.

00:38:48.880 Even if after all of this compliance, nothing nefarious comes out, which of course it won't.

00:38:54.940 That's not really the point. The point isn't really to prove that y'all are guilty. The point is to

00:39:00.300 make it as hard as possible for you to do the nonprofit work that you're trying to do,

00:39:05.380 which is save babies' lives and serve women, right? That's correct. 1.00

00:39:14.340 Quick pause from that conversation to tell you about a very fitting sponsor for this segment,

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00:40:09.840 need. Plus, this is an unapologetically pro-life, pro-Jesus family-owned company. They put so much

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00:40:39.660 code Allie. So Erin, tell us where things stand right now. What has this fight looked like, and

00:40:51.740 what's happening at the moment? Sure. So as Amy said, she was served with a subpoena almost two years ago,

00:40:59.260 and to sort of give your listeners just a small glimpse of what Amy has stood through. There has

00:41:07.700 been a legal battle taking place not only in the federal courts, but also in the state courts. So

00:41:12.900 Alliance Defending Freedom filed suit on her behalf in federal court, said that they're not entitled to

00:41:17.940 this information, especially the donor names. Meanwhile, the Attorney General filed suit in state

00:41:23.160 court. So altogether, there have been over 50 briefs in, I think, five different courts filed in

00:41:28.860 this litigation. And again, First Choice is focused on helping women and children, not fighting legal

00:41:36.140 battles. So a huge burden on the nonprofit. And currently, we were extremely thankful. The Supreme

00:41:44.320 Court actually granted sort of this case, heard oral argument in the case last Tuesday, which it does in

00:41:51.180 only a very small fraction of cases that people ask for the court to review. And the court seemed quite

00:41:59.180 sympathetic to First Choice's arguments. A number of the justices, from Justice Kagan to the Chief

00:42:05.920 Justice, really indicated that just out of common sense, donors are going to be hesitant to donate to

00:42:12.580 an organization that has been targeted by the state's highest law enforcement officer. Justice Thomas pointed

00:42:18.300 out that no complaint has been filed or identified by the Attorney General's office. And so Justice

00:42:26.480 Gorsuch was really keen on those legal penalties that you mentioned. And so the court seemed quite

00:42:32.240 concerned about both the sort of power disparity between the Attorney General's office and a small

00:42:37.460 nonprofit issuing a subpoena demanding things that the Constitution protects. So we are hopeful the case

00:42:44.320 has been fully argued, will hopefully come out in several months, it could be as late as June, but we are

00:42:51.060 hoping and praying for a result that will protect both Amy as well as other pregnancy centers around the

00:42:56.720 country. Yes, absolutely. And I meant to ask this earlier, but with only these two pregnancy centers

00:43:03.260 targeted in New Jersey, why First Choice?

00:43:06.820 I have no idea. You're listening to Amy. She does such a good job. I don't know if it's perhaps

00:43:15.280 because she's one of the more prominent organizations helping women in New Jersey. You've heard about the 0.85

00:43:22.660 36,000 women that they have helped. So perhaps it's just because they're doing such good work.

00:43:28.260 When you look across the country, like to get sort of an X on your back or a target on your back,

00:43:34.660 you wouldn't think that helping women when no one else is there would do that. But it certainly has 0.99

00:43:39.940 in some blue states. Yeah. Amy, tell me what the Lord has taught you and the other staff and

00:43:47.940 volunteers at the Pregnancy Center through this difficulty.

00:43:51.040 Boy, there's so much that he's taught me. It's just, I have story after story of how personally

00:43:59.020 he's come. I think one of the things that he's taught me is that he wastes nothing,

00:44:04.140 that everything in your life is purposeful and everything in your life when given to him

00:44:09.040 can prepare you for what he has for you. So he wastes nothing. He's also shown us that what the

00:44:18.340 enemy intends for evil God uses for good, for the saving of many lives. I've seen that in many

00:44:24.360 different ways, uh, for our staff, um, the unity and the, um, the cohesive nature of our staff and

00:44:34.680 our board, the courage that everyone has had and how we have united through this is really a gift.

00:44:41.020 So those are a couple of things. It's been, um, a sweet time with him over the last two years.

00:44:49.220 I can certainly say that. God is so good. Um, how long have you been serving, uh, in this position?

00:44:57.420 35 years, 35, 35 of the 40 years. Oh my goodness. What an incredible blessing. I'm so

00:45:04.940 thankful for you. I have the privilege of speaking to a lot of pregnancy centers at their gals and,

00:45:11.340 and banquets, uh, all across the country. And I am just, I never cease to be in awe of what the Lord

00:45:18.100 does through the directors at these pregnancy centers. Um, there's a lot of other things that

00:45:23.420 you could have chosen to do that would have been a lot easier. That would have paid a lot of money,

00:45:28.080 different, different things. Um, but you have gone where the Lord has called you and I'm just very

00:45:33.640 grateful. And he, I'm sure used the 33 years before this subpoena was issued to prepare you for this

00:45:41.100 moment. Um, and I know it's a lot to ask that over the course of three and a half decades, I ask you to

00:45:46.880 pull out one story of one client who has been served and whose baby has been saved at first choice. But

00:45:54.780 if you have one top of mind, I would, I would love to hear it. Oh, I'd be glad to. One that comes to

00:46:01.960 mind is Mila and she's just special because I think she's the first woman, um, for whom we were

00:46:10.160 instrumental in providing the abortion pill reversal. So she had taken the first abortion pill 0.99

00:46:16.560 and, um, then went home and looked at her children and realized what she had done and regretted it. And

00:46:24.220 her friend went online and found the, uh, national abortion pill reversal hotline. And they contacted us

00:46:30.900 since she was in our area and, uh, she took the progesterone, which is just a natural hormone

00:46:37.380 that occurs in a woman's body and, uh, reverse the effects of the first pill. And her daughter,

00:46:43.400 Scarlett is eight years old today. I think she's in third grade. And you just realize that anything

00:46:51.240 like this, this legal battle, while we wouldn't have chosen it, God has chosen us and the women and the

00:46:57.940 babies that we serve are worth this fight because they need pregnancy centers across the nation. So

00:47:03.500 it's all worth it. When you look at her sweet face and look at her mom.

00:47:08.420 Absolutely. Well, Amy, and then Aaron, how can we support you just as a center? Um, but also in this

00:47:16.900 specific battle, because as Aaron articulated, like this is not just about you guys, like this represents

00:47:23.960 all pro-lifers in a sense, but certainly all pregnancy centers. So, uh, first tell us Amy,

00:47:29.600 how we can support first choice. Prayer. That's the best way. There are people praying all throughout

00:47:36.360 the nation. I had a pregnancy center director from Alaska call me on Friday and say, we are praying

00:47:43.160 for you. So you do realize that this has, this fight has become personal for a lot of pregnancy

00:47:48.740 centers because they know it could be them. So prayer without a doubt, um, find your local

00:47:55.780 pregnancy center and volunteer, you know, look up pregnancy center in your area and volunteer,

00:48:01.880 see what their needs are. Um, we're grassroots, uh, small nonprofits, and we just appreciate people.

00:48:08.920 Um, and then if people are led to give our website is first choice, give.com. So that's always an

00:48:14.860 option as well and support your local pregnancy center too. Thank you so much. And Aaron, how can

00:48:20.800 we support y'all specifically as this battle continues to wage? I think I would just, yeah,

00:48:27.140 hardly support all of the things, uh, that Amy said, um, pray for, for a broad outcome that will

00:48:34.020 really make clear that hostile state officials cannot harass pregnancy care centers or anyone else just

00:48:41.060 because they disagree with their point of view and in what they're standing for. So, so prayers just

00:48:45.980 for a broad decision that again, the justice has seemed really sympathetic to that viewpoint. So we

00:48:51.560 are hopeful, um, but just the ability to protect women and children should be so foundational, uh, to

00:49:00.300 our country, uh, to, to what we are, are as a country. And so prayers for that. Yeah. Well, thank y'all

00:49:07.320 so much. And thanks for taking up this mantle, always easier not to do so, but the Lord, I guess

00:49:12.900 kind of put this, um, in y'all's lap and I don't know all the reasons why for it, but I know that

00:49:19.140 he does work all things together for the good of those who love him, who are called according to

00:49:23.500 his purpose. And I love hearing the stories of how he is continuing to save lives through y'all's

00:49:29.080 obedience. So thank y'all so much. Thank you, Aaron. Thank you, ADF. And we will absolutely be

00:49:34.380 praying for first choice. So thank you, Amy. Thank you so much. Thank you.

00:49:44.160 Okay. So that tells us so much of what we need to do. We need to be praying for this particular

00:49:49.060 pregnancy center, every pregnancy center, especially in blue States, and you should

00:49:53.300 donate to and volunteer at your local pregnancy center. And actually I will be posting some, um,

00:49:59.300 uh, a way for you to do that for local pregnancy centers across the country, almost 100 of them

00:50:05.600 on my Instagram starting today. Before we get into this last segment of the show, I want to tell you

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00:51:14.480 Okay. Our last segment today is less serious, but I saw it and I was like, I've got to talk about it.

00:51:26.120 I've got to talk about how ridiculous that is. This is. And as we think about everything that's

00:51:31.580 going on in the world, like the true oppression, the true injustice, the true sadness that occurs

00:51:38.480 on a daily basis. And then we look at what liberals in America get angry about, get riled up about. It

00:51:45.500 just makes you think, right? Like it just makes you think that maybe we have a little too much.

00:51:52.220 Maybe we're a little too comfortable. Things are a little too luxurious here that we can have a

00:51:57.700 complete national freak out about the color of the year as decided by Pantone. Okay. For the first time

00:52:06.400 ever, according to the Washington Post, Pantone's color of the year is a shade of dot, dot, dot

00:52:13.620 white. Okay. The particular color is called Cloud Dancer. On Friday, December 5th, Pantone

00:52:22.240 announced its 2026 color of the year. So this is the company that releases every other color of the

00:52:26.740 year. It's supposed to be a prediction of the color that is going to be like in style or used a lot or is

00:52:32.520 indicative of this present moment in some kind of stylistic way. So the 2026 color of the year,

00:52:39.520 Pantone says, is soft muted off-white called Cloud Dancer. For the first time ever, Pantone has chosen

00:52:45.140 a shade of white and plenty of people online are calling to pick tone deaf and racist. Pantone's

00:52:51.080 president, Sky Kelly, who is black, by the way, said, quote, we knew that people would have emotions

00:52:56.220 about this color. Here's thought eight. To address some of the online comments,

00:53:01.220 let me state clearly that white is indeed a color.

00:53:09.700 We knew that people would have emotions about this year's color. When I first learned of color,

00:53:15.540 I thought, oh, this is going to be pretty controversial. But the power of this program,

00:53:21.840 the power of Pantone's color of the year is that it sparks a conversation, a conversation about color

00:53:29.100 that everyone can participate in. At Pantone, we don't dictate that conversation. We facilitate it.

00:53:39.840 Okay, so people were not okay with this. We have this person who had a highly engaged with post on

00:53:47.320 actually that. I know it's just a color and it's not that deep, et cetera, et cetera. But Pantone

00:53:51.400 picking white as a color of the year during a time where white supremacy on the rise is so

00:53:57.500 blank. All right. Then we have people comparing this to Sydney Sweeney's American Eagle Great Jeans

00:54:05.860 ad. It was a double entendre. She was wearing great jeans from American Eagle, but also she was saying

00:54:11.460 she had great jeans, G-E-N-E-S, because she's pretty. She's pretty. But people took that as a 0.98

00:54:19.160 sign of white supremacy. You're not allowed to say if you have blonde hair and blue eyes that you have

00:54:23.460 good jeans, that you got them genetically. She clearly does have good jeans. Like she's beautiful.

00:54:28.280 But if you're a white person, you can't say that. And you can't celebrate or even like the color white

00:54:33.200 apparently because this sends an offensive message. That sounds interesting. Sydney Sweeney has good 1.00

00:54:44.740 jeans vibes. Is there like an explanation? Oh, capturing the cultural zeitgeist to highlight how

00:54:52.780 what is taking place in our macro culture at the moment in time is expressed through the language

00:54:59.360 of color. To choose a color of the year, they sift through current cultural, political, and style

00:55:04.540 references. Okay, Pantone, you're on our list. Okay, so the Sydney Sweeney vibes, they say. Here's a

00:55:13.780 feng shui practitioner. So designers and people in fashion, they are really looking to see this Pantone

00:55:20.260 color matching system. They named the colors like what the color of the year is going to be. Here's Saateng.

00:55:26.420 Hey, Pantone, you're fired. You really chose white? You chose white? In these times?

00:55:42.400 Okay, if you were just listening to that, she's burning her color swatches. And these color swatches 1.00

00:55:51.520 that you get from Pantone are apparently like hundreds of dollars, okay? Um,

00:55:56.420 here's someone else say it's giving, uh, it's giving conservatives, Saat 11.

00:56:02.700 Pantone's color of the year is a recession indicator. Now, white symbolizes peace, but it

00:56:06.920 also symbolizes a color that traditionally only wealthy people could wear. Also symbolizes purity,

00:56:11.320 which in the United States tends to have nefarious undertones. It's giving conservative.

00:56:15.580 Now, when there are recessions, people tend to go back to traditional values or the way things were,

00:56:21.020 despite the fact that liberal administrations tend to lead to booms in the economy.

00:56:26.420 Oh my gosh. What color were your walls, by the way? Your walls were white. All right? So people 0.91

00:56:34.080 are upset about this. It's literally just a color, okay? It's an inanimate color. And the subliminal

00:56:41.420 message is far more offensive than any supposed message that Pantone is communicating. The subliminal 0.71

00:56:47.560 message in all of these people is that it's not okay to be white. That being white or having white skin, 0.95

00:56:53.880 because they're associating this with white skin, even though Pantone wasn't talking about skin color

00:56:58.220 at all, that you need to be ashamed of that. That white, having white skin symbolizes something 1.00

00:57:03.540 bad, that we need to reject the color of our skin. No, thank you. Like, no, thank you. Absolutely not.

00:57:11.560 In this age of self-confidence and self-love, it's only white people who have to hate themselves or 0.76

00:57:16.800 associate their skin color with the collective sins of people who lived elsewhere at a different time.

00:57:24.180 No. Like, this is the same message as we heard in 2020, a message preached to white people of

00:57:30.160 collective guilt and a message preached to black and brown people that denied even individual 0.97

00:57:35.680 responsibility. So white people bear some guilt and responsibility that someone who kind of looked

00:57:43.360 like them who lived in the same general vicinity 200 years ago, that that was all of our fault. 0.90

00:57:51.400 But a person, an individual with black or brown skin who actually themselves goes into a gas station

00:58:00.520 and loots it or breaks a TV at a furniture store in the name of racial justice, that person actually

00:58:08.320 isn't even personally responsible for what they do because, oh, riots are just the voice of the

00:58:13.400 unheard. That was the message we heard in 2020. And I think most people, it took a while and it took

00:58:19.140 some courage and some gumption, ended up rejecting that because it's ridiculous, because it's stupid. 1.00

00:58:24.960 It doesn't make any sense. It's completely unbiblical. That is not just. Justice is impartial. 1.00

00:58:29.960 Justice is individual. Justice is direct. You don't carry the sins of someone who kind of looked

00:58:35.740 like you. You don't even carry the sins of your mom and dad. People say, oh, your ancestor's this,

00:58:41.020 your ancestor's that. I'm sorry. Like, have we taken DNA tests? Just because someone kind of looked

00:58:45.980 like you 200 years ago does not mean that they are your ancestors. Most likely, your ancestors did not

00:58:51.740 even own slaves. But even if they did own slaves, you don't bear responsibility or guilt for that.

00:58:56.060 That's just how justice works. That's how biblical justice works. And that is supposed to be how legal

00:59:01.780 justice works. That is not how social justice works. However, social justice is always trying to

00:59:07.760 finagle different factors that could contribute to someone's outcome so that everyone has equal

00:59:15.740 outcomes. That was the that was the drum that I beat over and over again in 2020. Not just me, but lots

00:59:23.860 of people. But that's something I focused on in 2020, because that idea was just ravaging the church.

00:59:30.680 And I think the church has a lot more clarity when it comes to LGBTQ issues, but it's so scared to say

00:59:36.060 true things when it comes to justice and race. Factually true things and biblically true things.

00:59:40.520 That is one where they're just like, oh, we'll just let BLM have that territory and we'll just kind of

00:59:45.540 agree with it because we're scared. It's stupid and it's dangerous. And this idea that whiteness 1.00

00:59:52.320 inherently is bad or something to be embarrassed of is so wrong. It's so wrong. The same God who 0.57

00:59:58.900 providentially made my melanin count made someone else's melanin count a lot higher than mine.

01:00:05.120 And we are both equally made in his image. Shouldn't be radical. But of course it is.

01:00:12.600 All right. So they had to respond to this, the Pantone Color Institute. They had to say something

01:00:17.280 about why they chose this. But let me pause. Let me tell you about our last sponsor for the day.

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01:01:03.760 are awesome. So go to RangeLeather.com slash Allie. You'll get that 15% off. That's RangeLeather.com

01:01:10.360 slash Allie. Okay. So Latrice, Leatrice, sorry if I mispronounced your name, Iceman. She's the 0.76

01:01:20.140 executive director of Pantone Color Institute, said the choice was about symbolizing a blank

01:01:24.700 canvas. Vice President Lori Pressman said, skin tones did not factor into this at all. With peach

01:01:30.920 fuzz and then with mocha mousse, people were weighing in and asking if this was about skin

01:01:34.980 tones. And I think we were going, wow, really? Because for us, it's all about, at such a basic

01:01:39.380 level, what are people looking for that color, looking for that color can hope to answer? So

01:01:46.300 2025's color of the year, I guess, was mocha mousse. Was that right? And then 2024 was peach

01:01:57.380 fuzz. And they say, no, they are not trying to say anything about race. They're not trying to talk

01:02:03.620 about skin tone at all. Like, it's not that deep. It's not that deep. I promise you, if you had done 0.98

01:02:09.460 dark brown, if they had done a dark brown this year, no white person would have been like, really? 0.82

01:02:15.160 Really? What kind of DEI statement are you trying to make? I would have said, yes, I love it. I agree

01:02:21.080 with that because dark brown is in my color season and I love wearing dark brown. Thank you so much,

01:02:26.440 Pantone. Actually, I probably would have never heard about it. I've never thought about what the color of

01:02:30.920 the year is because no one is forcing you to use this color. I kind of agree with people who say

01:02:36.980 that, okay, white is overdone in design and in fashion. For the past 10 years, it's been all

01:02:42.740 about shiplap and all about having an all-white house. And I do think that that trend is going 0.99

01:02:47.840 away. But that doesn't mean that I'm going to be up in arms about this. It's just silly.

01:02:54.460 There are some Bible verses to think about here. I thought about James and impartiality.

01:03:00.660 This was, again, a passage that we talked about so much in 2020 because so many professing

01:03:04.720 Christians who pushed social justice and these disparate messages to black congregants and white

01:03:11.360 congregants about the color of their skin and the responsibility that that bears or doesn't bear.

01:03:17.360 James 3, 16 through 17, for where jealousy and selfish ambition exist, there will be disorder in

01:03:22.480 every vile practice. But the wisdom from above is first pure, then peaceable, gentle, open to reason,

01:03:29.440 full of mercy and good fruits, impartial and sincere. Romans 1, 21 through 22, for although

01:03:37.180 they knew God, they did not honor him as God or give thanks to him, but they became futile in their

01:03:42.200 thinking and their foolish hearts were darkened. Claiming to be wise, they became fools. This is 1.00

01:03:47.880 foolishness. When society suppresses the truth about God, even a simple color choice like Pantone,

01:03:53.980 serene white becomes proof of white supremacy in the minds of critics, revealing how futile darkened

01:03:59.500 their reasoning becomes, even in mundane things, they can bring it to the level of the absurd because

01:04:08.400 their mind has been given over to depravity. Proverbs 18, 2, a fool takes no pleasure in understanding, 0.97

01:04:13.920 but only in expressing his opinion. Oh man, that is a word for the day. You shouldn't have to say that 0.98

01:04:23.980 it is totally fine and beautiful and just as in the realm of the Imago Dei to have white skin 0.99

01:04:34.120 as it is to have any other color skin. It's not a symbol of anything nefarious or malicious.

01:04:41.280 How dare anyone imply that to tell a child that they were born in the wrong body or that their skin

01:04:49.860 color symbolizes something that is inherently evil, whether you're brown or black or white or 1.00

01:04:56.600 anywhere along that spectrum is so incredibly wrong. The fact that Christians play around with this stuff 1.00

01:05:03.660 and that they will either flirt with it or outright show this kind of anti-white hatred is just really 0.99

01:05:12.320 gross. It is a sign of an idol in their own heart that they just need to ask the Lord to rid them of. 0.90

01:05:20.800 That's the truth of it. This is such a silly controversy, but the fact that it's a controversy

01:05:25.240 speaks to something like really wrong, I think, in the American heart, in the Western heart, and 0.73

01:05:30.980 in some Christians' heart. If you have a negative reaction when you see a color that God created in

01:05:38.020 his earth, then it's time for some self-reflection, some prayer, some accountability, and repentance.

01:05:44.160 All right. We will be back on Wednesday with a theology episode that you are going to love.

01:05:50.140 See you guys back here then.

01:06:08.020 See you guys back here.

Relatable with Allie Beth Stuckey - December 08, 2025

Ep 1276 ｜ TPUSA Fact-Checks Candace Owens. Are Things About to Get Ugly？

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