Relatable with Allie Beth Stuckey - Ep 128 ｜ Tom Ascol

00:00:00.000 Hey guys, welcome to Relatable. Happy Friday. Hope everyone has had a wonderful week. Today I am

00:00:05.480 interviewing Pastor Tom Askell. He is a part of the Southern Baptist Convention, as am I, and he

00:00:13.200 was at the gathering of members of the Southern Baptist Convention a couple weeks ago where they

00:00:20.700 voted on a variety of resolutions to clarify where this denomination stands on various issues.

00:00:29.000 One of those resolutions had to do with critical race theory and intersectionality, and Pastor Tom

00:00:35.840 Askell was a part of that and a part of that formation, and so I wanted to get insight and

00:00:42.860 clarity from him on that process and how the resolution ended up the way that it did.

00:00:48.200 Pastor, thanks so much for joining me.

00:00:49.840 Well, it's my joy. Thanks for having me.

00:00:51.760 Yeah, if you could tell everyone who may not know who you are and what you do.

00:00:55.540 Well, I'm Tom Askell. I'm the pastor at Grace Baptist Church in Cape Coyle, Florida,

00:01:01.860 and I am the president of Founders Ministries. But more importantly than that, I am Donna's

00:01:07.940 husband of 39 years. I'm the father of six kids and the grandfather of nine with one

00:01:14.860 eminently on the way.

00:01:16.700 Oh my God, so you're busy is what you're trying to say.

00:01:18.700 Yeah, well, I'm saying that God has been incredibly kind to me to let me live long enough to see my

00:01:25.040 children's children.

00:01:26.220 Amen. Amen. Okay, the reason why I wanted to talk with you today is because I wanted to get some

00:01:32.380 insight on the SBC and the things that are happening. Southern Baptist Convention, for those

00:01:37.680 who are listening who may not know, I am a member of the Southern Baptist Convention, have been my whole

00:01:41.940 life. You obviously are as well. And there has been a lot of, for those of us who weren't actually

00:01:48.100 at the conference, who weren't actually at the convention, there were a lot of murmurs on Twitter,

00:01:54.400 I would say, of, okay, there are two different conferences going on. What's the deal? We're

00:01:59.040 talking about egalitarianism versus complementarianism. But really, what kind of rose to the top,

00:02:04.640 it seemed like, as the most, I don't want to call it a controversy, but the biggest point

00:02:08.960 of confusion maybe from the convention was this Resolution 9 on critical race theory. So I wanted

00:02:16.700 to get your insight on what critical race theory is, why there was a resolution on it, and how

00:02:21.780 the process kind of ended up unfolding, if you could.

00:02:25.620 Critical race theory comes out of critical legal theory, which was developed in the early 70s,

00:02:32.360 maybe late 60s, as a way to look at how the law functions relative to different groups of people.

00:02:41.560 And so critical race theory is the idea that the way to understand racial relationships is best

00:02:50.560 conceived by power structures. So you understand the world to be comprised of power structures. And here

00:02:57.000 in the West, here in America, those power structures have white European males at the top, and people 0.99

00:03:02.820 of color tend to be toward the bottom of strata. So racism then becomes defined by CRT as that which

00:03:10.640 is systemic and structural. It's built in. So an individual white European male or any person could

00:03:17.080 not have any racial animosity in their heart at all, but still be complicit in racism simply because

00:03:23.380 they're part of this hegemonic or this leadership structure of racial inequity. And based on that,

00:03:31.680 then, there are all kinds of proposals as to what needs to be done in order for justice to be served

00:03:36.780 to those that are being oppressed. So critical race theory has proposed a lot of ideas about what

00:03:44.860 should be done to relieve the oppression, for the oppressors to sit back and give up and move over.

00:03:51.800 So it's a way of viewing the world that analyzes racial relationships based largely on structures

00:03:59.800 and groups rather than individual people. Which is why it's not primarily concerned with equality

00:04:07.440 of opportunity, but rather equality of outcome. That's kind of what it's focusing on. Okay.

00:04:13.120 They think that if we can come up with some calculation that would take the oppressors who you said are

00:04:18.320 typically white European males, take the oppressors, lower them down, take the oppressed, which is

00:04:24.940 typically in their eyes, people of color, lift them up, then maybe at the end of the day, we can have

00:04:31.000 this kind of equitable utopia that we believe will finally be the heaven on earth that we have been

00:04:39.220 striving toward. Is that kind of their goal? Or would you say it's more supremacy of those who have been

00:04:45.740 oppressed to the degradation of those who have traditionally been the oppressor?

00:04:51.420 Well, it depends largely on who you listen to, because both of those views have been proposed by

00:04:56.580 people from within this framework. There are those who say that this is only an analytical tool. This

00:05:02.420 is a way of viewing the world. But of course, you read the critical race theorists themselves,

00:05:06.360 like Richard Delgado and Gene Stefanski, and they say, no, this is a theory that is advocacy.

00:05:12.320 This is designed to change things, to change structures. So you've got typical social theories

00:05:20.100 that just examine what is. They try to understand the way things really are and describe them. Well,

00:05:26.700 this theory says we look at what the way things are, we tell you the way they are, so that they can

00:05:31.960 be changed to become what we think they must be or they ought to be, which in reality, it's a godlike

00:05:38.460 perspective. Yeah, you know, we're going to make things the way that we determined to be right.

00:05:43.340 And they want to really, they see, which this is typical of, you know, social justice advocates and

00:05:49.280 people on the left, they see any kind of discrepancy or any kind of difference between whether it's

00:05:54.500 between the sexes, whether it's between the races, as inherent injustice. So if there is a difference in

00:06:01.520 outcome or a difference in destination, it's not because of different choices per se, but it's

00:06:07.240 always, they usually propose because of some kind of injustice, which I suppose is how critical race

00:06:15.940 theory somehow infiltrated, not just the church, but the Southern Baptist convention. You have people

00:06:21.920 who are concerned with inequity, concerned with injustice. They see something like critical race

00:06:26.960 theory. And they say, well, that, that sounds good. Is that kind of what happened or how did this

00:06:32.160 all come together? Yeah, I think that has been going on in different places. I've had conversations

00:06:38.560 with some professors and some of our seminaries about critical race theory over the last several

00:06:43.960 months. A couple of conversations with people I disagree with who see this as a good thing. And I

00:06:50.140 don't see it as a good thing. I see it as filled with problems, but the way that this got to the floor

00:06:56.140 of the Southern Baptist convention and in God's providence, it was the last session of the

00:07:01.180 convention. And it was the last 15 minutes of the last session of the convention. So everybody's

00:07:05.820 tired. Most people are gone. Folks want to, to be done and go to dinner. And this is one of 13

00:07:13.340 resolutions that the resolutions committee of the SBC determined to bring out for the convention to

00:07:20.260 vote on. They're recommending these resolutions. What I discovered later, I didn't know,

00:07:26.120 know it at the time. But what I discovered later is that an original resolution under the name of

00:07:32.540 critical race theory and intersectionality had been proposed by a pastor from California.

00:07:39.000 And you have to, any Southern Baptist can submit a resolution if it's in keeping with the standings

00:07:44.640 of their church and they have credentials to come to the convention. That has to be done 15 days before

00:07:49.300 the convention. So the committee meets, they spend hours looking at all these recommendations that have come

00:07:53.800 in and determine which ones to bring out. They have the option of completely declining a resolution

00:07:59.120 and not bringing it out. They have the option of editing a resolution any way that they see fit

00:08:04.400 and then bringing it out. They have the option of also writing their own resolutions.

00:08:09.520 Well, we were told by the chairman of the committee, I think he said there were 18 resolutions submitted,

00:08:14.520 and that they had rejected nine of them. Maybe I forget the exact numbers, but it meant that they wrote

00:08:22.980 like six of their own. So I think they had seven that were, had come that they were going to pass along

00:08:29.360 and six they wrote of their own. Well, it dawned on me later that this is a resolution that they said

00:08:34.860 came from this pastor in California. So I actually tracked him down the next day, called him, talked to

00:08:40.300 him and got a copy of his original resolution. And it's completely opposite of what was proposed by

00:08:46.680 the committee. The committee completely rewrote his resolution, kept his name, and at least suggested,

00:08:53.440 if not giving the implication, that this was something that they had just passed along from a messenger.

00:09:01.620 Well, that wasn't the case. What happened is the committee on resolutions went through the first

00:09:10.920 eight of these resolutions. They had like 20 minutes to discuss them all. There were a lot of debates

00:09:15.880 about that. So we get to resolution nine and they said, we're just going to bundle that with the last

00:09:20.920 four resolutions. We're going to vote on nine through 13 altogether. The messengers protested that

00:09:27.300 and they decided that they had to take them one by one. Well, I had received a text from Al Mohler

00:09:32.780 at Southern Seminary earlier that day saying, are you going to offer an amendment on resolution number

00:09:37.080 nine? And I had not read it at that time. I read it, gathered some brothers together.

00:09:40.880 So when you're talking about, when you're talking about the resolution nine that Al Mohler is referencing

00:09:46.680 to and the one that you hadn't read yet, are you talking about the resolution nine in its original form

00:09:52.540 from the pastor in California? Are you talking about the new version that ended up

00:09:56.460 being the resolution? Yeah, the new version. This is the one that got printed in the daily bulletin.

00:10:00.860 I didn't know there was an original version. Okay. So the change occurred, the change occurred

00:10:06.120 from the pastor in California through the messenger to this resolution being voted on. So it didn't get

00:10:13.120 changed in committee between you guys. It got changed from the suggested form to what you guys

00:10:20.120 actually saw and voted on. That's correct. And that happened by the committee, the resolutions committee.

00:10:26.460 So they took it and changed it. They kept the same name, which was a little confusing because it gave the

00:10:32.340 impression that it was this pastor from California's resolution.

00:10:36.120 And it was totally different. Yeah, completely different. So when we looked at it and read the resolution, it became apparent pretty quickly.

00:10:45.780 To amend it sufficiently so that it would be a good resolution would take a lot of work. So we finished, I had like 17 specific amendments to take this phrase out, add this phrase, delete this, add this.

00:10:58.780 So there's no way on the floor of a convention, you're going to get people to follow along with that kind of intricate change. It's just not going to happen. So in consultation with Al and some others, we decided, hey, let's just reduce it. We'll add, we'll make three recommendations to amend it. One, add a whereas and other, two other resolved sections of the resolution. So the whereas address the origin of critical race theory.

00:11:27.660 Hang on. There's a lot of people that probably don't, haven't read the resolution. Tell us just in general terms, what the resolution was that you guys were deciding on and amend it. What did it say about critical race theory?

00:11:40.020 Yeah, it says a lot of good things. I mean, in fact, if you take it with a line, I probably wouldn't say that it says any one thing that's wrong. But it's, it's one of those situations where you can say true things that mislead. Like, you know, Ali has not been in prison in six months.

00:11:55.220 Well, that's a true thing, but that's very misleading. And so the, the statement affirms the sufficiency of scripture, the authority of scripture, everything needs to be tested by scripture. It does all that right and good.

00:12:06.660 But it says that critical race theory and intersectionality are analytical tools that can be misappropriated in bad ways that commend worldly ideologies. And that must be rejected.

00:12:18.800 Well, is that true? That is true. That's not the old truth because they come from godless worldviews. They come from Marxism. And that source needs to be understood if you're going to try to use it merely equal tool.

00:12:34.180 So whenever I made the recommendation for the amendments to clarify that, to reiterate that our identity as Christians is in Christ and that we must reject all kinds of identity politics, the, and I, I offered it as a friendly resolution.

00:12:49.700 I actually wrote it up, typed it up, emailed it into the committee long before I got to a microphone. So they had it on the platform to consider it, know what I was going to say. It was no animosity at all on my part.

00:12:59.920 And I thought, I can keep this from being a train rep because there's no way the convention is going to vote on this unanimously or with an overwhelming majority as is.

00:13:09.320 Well, when I did that, Dr. Woods, Curtis Woods, who's a professor at Southern Seminary, who's the chairman of the committee, said, I said, I offer this as a friendly recommendation, amendment.

00:13:18.580 He said, we take it as an unfriendly amendment. And he went on to say that the aspiration of the committee in offering the resolution as it was printed

00:13:28.100 was to demonstrate, to show that critical race theory and intersectionality are simply analytical tools.

00:13:38.720 Right.

00:13:39.100 They're simply analytical tools. Well, that's not true.

00:13:41.740 Right.

00:13:42.460 They may be analytical tools, but they're not simply analytical tools.

00:13:45.620 They're not neutral.

00:13:47.700 Yeah, yeah, that's right. So that was the long and short of it.

00:13:53.060 We ran out of time. They called for the vote on my amendment. The amendment failed. It was a split vote.

00:13:59.420 I don't know how close, but it wasn't unanimous or even close.

00:14:02.600 You know, it was probably the 60-40 or something. And then the resolution passed overwhelmingly after that.

00:14:08.100 So, and this is not to call anyone specific out, but I guess I'm just wondering why anyone in the SBC who does believe in the supremacy of scripture,

00:14:20.340 I'm not questioning that, who does believe that we should be viewing everything through a biblical worldview,

00:14:27.020 why would they view your amendment, which basically says, you know, identity politics and these analytical tools are, you know,

00:14:35.620 they're not neutral or they're not kind of a perspective that Christians who do hold to the supremacy of scripture should be having.

00:14:43.980 Why would anyone disagree with that? Did they articulate why?

00:14:47.860 Not at the, uh, not at the convention, no. Uh, I've had conversations privately with some who are advocates of Kroker race theory, 0.73

00:14:58.240 one in particular, and he is convinced that these are useful tools, that this is the way the world thinks

00:15:04.340 and that we can learn from the world in this way how racism is structural and systemic in our society so that we can better address it.

00:15:12.440 Well, of course, you have to buy the presupposition if you're going to buy the solution.

00:15:17.800 And the solution is contrary to scripture quite simply because the presuppositions are contrary to scripture.

00:15:25.160 If scripture is sufficient, then we ought to be able to depend upon scripture to help us analyze what is partiality,

00:15:32.000 what is sinful ways of thinking and treating, thinking about and treating people.

00:15:36.200 Right. I wonder if, I don't know, maybe it's something in human nature,

00:15:41.380 but it does seem to be popularized over the past 10 or so years to kind of draw these lines of distinction

00:15:47.680 that it almost seems like there are some people within evangelical Christianity right now

00:15:52.340 who are simply not content with saying, okay, there are those who are dead in sin apart from Christ.

00:15:58.440 And there are those who are alive in Christ.

00:16:00.520 And those who are alive in Christ are reconciled not only to the God of the universe through Jesus,

00:16:04.800 but we're also reconciled to one another despite our, despite our differences within the body of Christ.

00:16:09.860 Those who are not with Christ don't have that.

00:16:12.280 So to me, the gospel is the only analytical tool that you need for reconciliation.

00:16:17.700 But it seems like people aren't quite content with that distinction.

00:16:20.920 It's like we need to draw other distinctions within the body of Christ.

00:16:23.920 So we need to draw racial distinctions.

00:16:25.780 We need to draw the socioeconomic distinctions,

00:16:27.740 not to say that those don't actually exist when we're a part of the world, because they do.

00:16:31.640 They do.

00:16:32.160 And there are, you know, there might be actual manifestations of that,

00:16:37.880 that of course we need to take stock of, but it almost feels like this social justice gospel

00:16:42.800 that, that we see so much now, it almost feels like a discontentment with the gospel and with

00:16:47.920 the Bible itself.

00:16:48.980 It's like, it's almost like saying, well, it hasn't done the work that I want it to.

00:16:52.880 It hasn't done enough to relieve oppression.

00:16:54.860 It hasn't done enough to reconcile.

00:16:56.820 Hasn't done enough to redeem.

00:16:59.060 So let's see what, what Marx and James Cone have to bring to the table,

00:17:02.860 but they probably wouldn't say it like that, would they?

00:17:07.020 No, I haven't heard anybody put it quite like that.

00:17:09.600 He's been advocating for it, but I don't think you're wrong in, in the way you cast that.

00:17:15.120 I mean, I do think there's obviously nuance that those who would hold the position and

00:17:18.500 argue for it would add, but this is a different worldview.

00:17:22.700 And I believe, I wrote an article about this.

00:17:26.000 You can found it founders.org to give a little bit more of the background and details if anybody

00:17:29.740 wants to pursue it there, but I am convinced that the most fundamental, important Bible

00:17:36.080 verse that is overlooked, that probably becomes the most controversial Bible verse in this whole

00:17:41.600 debate is Genesis 1.1.

00:17:44.380 If we really believe this is God's world, then it's God's rules that we ought to look to and

00:17:51.140 submit to and understand that as we do, this is how we're going to experience flourishing.

00:17:56.040 This is how we're going to live well in his world that he created and designed us as his

00:18:01.780 image bearers to live in.

00:18:03.960 But people assume that today, and they assume that, yes, we've got the gospel, but as you

00:18:08.880 said, it doesn't seem to be working in all the ways that we think it ought to work.

00:18:12.820 Therefore, we ought to look at this theory and this project and this proposal and see what

00:18:19.480 we can benefit from them.

00:18:21.680 Now, I've got a degree in sociology.

00:18:23.160 I enjoy reading sociology today, but it's a sociology at its best can describe what is.

00:18:31.700 When you start listening to sociologists to tell you what ought to be, what you should

00:18:35.960 do, you're in a bad way.

00:18:38.840 We have a book.

00:18:39.980 God has spoken to us.

00:18:41.580 And if we take him at his word, then we will seek to understand that word and apply it to

00:18:45.980 the best of our abilities in our lives and relationships.

00:18:48.860 And tell me, just so we can be perfectly clear, where exactly, and you kind of already explained

00:18:54.700 this when you explained what critical race theory is, but if someone were to ask you,

00:19:00.240 okay, but what exactly about critical race theory and intersectionality is not covered

00:19:06.660 in the Bible or it doesn't align with the Bible, what is that?

00:19:10.740 What's the essential distinction?

00:19:12.420 Well, one significant thing is looking at people primarily in terms of group identity.

00:19:19.740 And so what's most important about you is not that you are an individual person, but that

00:19:26.880 you are a woman, white, of this socioeconomic class, of this age, that puts you in categories.

00:19:35.340 It's demographics.

00:19:37.120 Well, demographics can tell us some things, but the Bible doesn't deal with us primarily,

00:19:42.380 if at all, demographically.

00:19:44.320 The Bible calls us to give an account to God individually.

00:19:47.800 That doesn't mean I'm to be unconcerned about other people.

00:19:50.840 It doesn't mean I don't have an identity as a family member, as a church member, as a citizen

00:19:56.040 of an earthly kingdom.

00:19:58.420 All those things are true.

00:19:59.400 But I must deal with God as an individual.

00:20:03.580 And that gets glossed over very quickly in these theories, because the critical race theory

00:20:09.640 basically says the most significant thing about you is which power structure you are

00:20:15.880 a part of.

00:20:16.780 And that then tells us what we need to know that's most fundamentally important about you.

00:20:21.020 And it gives responsibility to people who aren't responsible for the sins of, say, their

00:20:26.580 ancestors or people in their group.

00:20:29.000 And then it also takes responsibility away from people who are in certain, quote, oppressed

00:20:34.500 groups who still will have to give an account to God for their own individual actions.

00:20:39.620 God doesn't, like you said, Genesis 1-1, we know how God created the earth and we know

00:20:45.100 that we are supposed to live according to God's rules.

00:20:47.480 And like you said, God doesn't judge us based on the perceived oppression of our group.

00:20:53.760 And I think that's one of the most dangerous things.

00:20:56.200 One of the beautiful aspects of the gospel is that through Jesus, we are reconciled to

00:21:01.620 the only being in the universe who has the ability to condemn us to hell.

00:21:06.580 And when we have to stand before him one day, we will be able to cite the name of Jesus as

00:21:10.940 our righteousness.

00:21:11.620 But if you get that, if you take that out of the picture, that we will have to individually

00:21:17.500 give an account before God and that we are one day going to stand before the judgment

00:21:22.240 seat, then you lose the essence of the gospel.

00:21:27.220 If you believe that you are reprieved of all responsibility and sin and guilt because you've

00:21:32.040 been more oppressed or whatever it is, then I'm afraid that you're missing out on a big

00:21:37.360 part of the redemptive truth that we see in Jesus.

00:21:41.940 Absolutely.

00:21:42.900 You're exactly right.

00:21:44.320 And if you cast the problems in terms of critical theory or critical race theory or intersectionality,

00:21:50.440 the only solutions are political.

00:21:54.140 The only way you solve the problems are through political processes.

00:21:58.440 So you don't need the gospel.

00:22:00.440 I mean, you can say you have it and you can assume it, but you really don't need it because

00:22:05.400 the gospel is not going to, quote, change the systems as effectively and radically as

00:22:11.900 this theory says must be done for there to be true justice.

00:22:16.400 Right.

00:22:16.580 And that's the whole problem with the social gospel that has really been around for a long

00:22:21.020 time.

00:22:21.420 It's been around for a lot longer than this conversation.

00:22:23.740 Really, like 19th century, I think, is when it started popularizing and it's kind of kind

00:22:30.080 of lost its sway for a while.

00:22:31.700 And now it seems to be back with a vengeance with things like critical race theory and,

00:22:35.800 you know, intersectionality and all that craziness.

00:22:38.820 If you can give a word of hope and a word of optimism to people who are looking at this,

00:22:44.920 you know, maybe they thought the SBC was over liberal theology.

00:22:48.480 Maybe they thought, wait, didn't we kind of fight a similar battle over different things

00:22:51.960 a few decades ago?

00:22:53.560 So give us a little optimism for the SBC and, of course, optimism for the Christian in general. 0.88

00:23:00.800 Yeah, well, thanks for that.

00:23:02.340 And if you don't mind, Jared Longshore is the vice president and founder, associate pastor

00:23:07.460 with me.

00:23:07.800 He and I do the Sword in the Trial podcast.

00:23:09.820 And we gave a whole podcast of that this week.

00:23:12.320 So the last part that we're zeroing in on where to from here and why should we be hopeful?

00:23:16.840 Well, of course, we should be hopeful because we have a risen king.

00:23:21.080 You know, Jesus rules.

00:23:22.540 We forget that.

00:23:24.100 But that's true on our worst day.

00:23:26.340 So no matter what comes against us, we have a savior who was slaughtered and who came back

00:23:31.500 from the dead and who lives right now in heaven.

00:23:34.260 One day is coming again.

00:23:35.600 So my worst day, I have more to rejoice over than I can possibly conceive.

00:23:41.100 And I need to remember that.

00:23:42.680 Paul says that we need to look not at the things that are seen, but the things which

00:23:46.440 are unseen.

00:23:47.120 That's how we will be renewed inwardly, even though outwardly we're wasting away day by

00:23:52.540 day.

00:23:52.840 So, man, keep feeding on the word.

00:23:55.260 Keep looking to the scripture.

00:23:56.420 Take God's word.

00:23:57.700 Believe that.

00:23:58.300 So that's individual for Christians everywhere, anytime.

00:24:01.180 In the SBC, well, I don't know what's going to happen in the SBC.

00:24:06.080 But I can tell you since standing on the floor of the convention last week and since writing

00:24:10.340 the articles that I've written and having conversations, so many people have reached

00:24:14.420 out to me that I'm very, very hopeful.

00:24:16.020 I've had folks at all levels of the convention contact me and say, hey, we're with you.

00:24:20.840 We appreciate this.

00:24:22.900 Southern Baptists need to wake up. 0.96

00:24:24.580 We need to get educated.

00:24:26.500 Probably, I've talked to a lot of pastors and said, man, I don't know what critical race

00:24:29.120 theory is.

00:24:29.540 I don't want to know.

00:24:30.340 Well, I didn't want to know either, but it's here.

00:24:31.940 You need to know.

00:24:32.960 Our kids are growing up in it.

00:24:34.260 My grandkids.

00:24:35.120 I mean, one reason I'm in this is because of my grandkids, and I hate the thought of

00:24:41.240 my grandkids growing up in a world where the gospel has been lost or assumed.

00:24:44.660 I want them to have good churches where Christ is preached clearly and with a certainty that

00:24:53.380 the truth is in the scriptures.

00:24:55.800 Amen.

00:24:56.280 I agree.

00:24:56.900 You mentioned a podcast.

00:24:58.020 Will you tell everyone, again, what it's called, where they can find it, and any other

00:25:02.420 resources that you would like to point people to?

00:25:05.320 Okay, yeah, thank you.

00:25:06.940 The Sword and the Trowel, it's a podcast that's on all the outlets and YouTube, and I wish

00:25:13.840 I could tell you, but it's supposed to be everywhere.

00:25:15.300 Probably iTunes, Spotify, Google Play, I would just assume.

00:25:18.700 Probably those places, but you can probably just Google it.

00:25:20.800 Or you can go to founders.org.

00:25:23.060 That's our website, www.founders.org.

00:25:26.460 I would encourage folks, if they want to get up to speed on this, to go to Neil Shindy's

00:25:31.160 website as well.

00:25:32.320 Yes.

00:25:32.660 Neil Shindy Apologetics.

00:25:33.960 He's written lots on this.

00:25:36.380 And then a couple of books, one book in particular has been very helpful, two books actually,

00:25:41.580 one by Melvin Tinker called That Hideous Strength, How the West Was Lost.

00:25:46.200 He's an Anglican, short book.

00:25:48.380 It's good, helpful, gives a big picture.

00:25:50.220 And then a book by Shelby Steele called White Guilt, and it shows the origins of critical

00:25:59.720 race theory.

00:26:00.400 I don't know that he actually names it, but he shows what happens in the 1960s with the

00:26:05.980 civil rights movement under Martin Luther King Jr., and then after Martin Luther King Jr., what

00:26:11.400 happened with White Guilt being played to all kinds of difficult agendas.

00:26:18.740 And it's a brilliant book.

00:26:20.140 Shelby Steele is a great writer, and I would commend both of those to you.

00:26:23.860 Awesome.

00:26:24.420 Thank you so much.

00:26:25.380 I think a lot of people are going to benefit from that.

00:26:27.400 And of course, your insight.

00:26:28.880 Thank you for offering clarity on this, and thank you for what you do, for being a voice

00:26:33.400 for the many of us who weren't able to attend the convention, but who are concerned about

00:26:39.720 the SBC and some of the differences that we're seeing there, and just thank you for standing

00:26:44.520 up for the supremacy of Scripture and the centrality of the Gospel.

00:26:48.340 That's what we all are called to do.

00:26:50.980 Well, Allie, thank you for all you do, and I look forward to hearing about the safe arrival

00:26:55.840 of your little one.

00:26:56.800 Thank you so much, and congrats on the number 10 grandchild.

00:27:00.660 So as Pastor Askell noted, critical race theory is something that is infiltrating the church,

00:27:06.220 not just the Southern Baptist Church, but various denominations, as we kind of move in the progressive

00:27:11.640 direction, and we start to doubt the supremacy of Scripture, and we put more hope into secular

00:27:17.700 worldviews, hoping, I guess, that that's going to give us some kind of better justice than

00:27:23.980 the one that God gives, but it's extremely toxic, and it not only takes our eyes off of

00:27:30.320 what Scripture says is good and what Scripture says is just, but also the centrality of Jesus

00:27:35.920 Christ and His redemption for all individuals.

00:27:39.160 This summer, we're going to be talking about biblical justice, what biblical justice actually

00:27:42.940 looks like.

00:27:43.540 We're going to do also an episode on race and intersectionality towards the end of the summer,

00:27:48.220 but we're going to give a lot of clarity into what God says about these issues and how we

00:27:53.460 as Christians should be approaching them, and what God actually says about justice and equality

00:27:59.340 and how we should treat people from His perspective, which of course is the only perspective

00:28:04.200 that matters.

00:28:05.360 This is my last episode that I will be recording before the baby comes.

00:28:09.900 Of course, maybe if she's not here next week, I could record again and be like, okay, guys,

00:28:14.380 I just had to talk about this particular subject, but as it is planned right now, this is going

00:28:19.800 to be my last recording before she comes, and starting on Monday, you are going to be getting

00:28:25.340 the episodes that I recorded in May.

00:28:27.380 So there are going to be episodes on predestination, on Calvinism, on women in the church, on end

00:28:34.140 times, and then we're also going to be talking about things like Medicare for all, universal

00:28:38.940 basic income, a lot of issues that you're going to be hearing about in the election of 2020,

00:28:43.500 and so it's going to be an extremely informative series.

00:28:46.780 I think you guys are really going to like it.

00:28:48.500 Of course, if you disagree with any of these topics, which I'm sure you will, not all of you

00:28:52.500 are reformed Calvinists out there, and that's perfectly fine.

00:28:55.080 I'm so glad that you guys listened to the podcast.

00:28:58.200 I hope that you'll take the opportunity to engage with me, that you'll email me,

00:29:01.560 Allie at the conservativemillennialblog.com, and that we can just realize that all of these

00:29:05.760 discussion topics that we'll be going through this summer is supposed to lay a foundation

00:29:10.860 for a conversation, supposed to lay a foundation for us to be able to have productive dialogue,

00:29:15.500 and that's one thing that I love about Relatable Listeners is how thoughtful and smart you

00:29:19.460 guys are, how much you message me, email me your thoughts, and we can kind of go back

00:29:24.800 and forth and discuss what we think and discuss what is true, particularly on theological issues.

00:29:31.280 So I just appreciate you guys how much you engage with me and talk with me about these

00:29:35.340 things.

00:29:35.760 It really lets me know that you care.

00:29:37.480 Of course, like I requested, I think, a week ago, if you guys could, if you are so willing,

00:29:44.240 if you are so inclined, please share these episodes that are coming out this summer.

00:29:49.320 Share them on your Instagram stories.

00:29:51.000 Share them on Twitter.

00:29:52.220 Share them on Facebook.

00:29:53.280 Share them just with your friends.

00:29:54.780 Tweet them to your friends.

00:29:55.820 Share them with your family members.

00:29:57.100 I'm going to try as much as possible to be off of social media.

00:30:00.200 That means I'm not going to be able to promote these as much as I typically do or tell you

00:30:04.000 when they're coming out.

00:30:05.360 I'm going to try to post a schedule of what episodes are coming out when, but I would love

00:30:10.720 for you guys to share any episode that you like or that you feel gave you any kind of good

00:30:16.960 insight.

00:30:17.280 That would mean a lot to me.

00:30:19.080 I love you guys.

00:30:20.600 I will still, I'm sure, be on social media talking with you before the baby comes.

00:30:25.680 And so I will see you guys soon.

00:30:27.380 Thanks so much for listening and I will see you here on Monday.

Relatable with Allie Beth Stuckey - June 21, 2019

Ep 128 ｜ Tom Ascol

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