Ep 1285 ｜ Muslims Are Dreaming of Jesus. Missionary Reveals Miraculous Conversions ｜ Tom Doyle
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Summary
Muslims in the Middle East are having dreams and visions of Jesus, and many of them are hearing the gospel and coming to Christ. The headlines aren t covering this, but our guest today, Tom Doyle, has been sharing the gospel in Gaza, in other countries in the Mideast for years, and the stories of Muslims both here in America and abroad becoming Christians are amazing and so encouraging. He s also got some tools and lessons for how we can share the gospel with our Muslim neighbors.
Transcript
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Muslims in the Middle East are having dreams and visions of Jesus, and many of them are
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The headlines aren't covering this, but our guest today, Tom Doyle, has been sharing the
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gospel in Gaza, in other countries in the Middle East for years, and the stories of
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Muslims both here in America and abroad becoming Christians, they're amazing and so encouraging.
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He's also got some tools and lessons for us for how we can share the gospel with our
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This is an incredible and edifying episode that I know you are going to love.
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Tom, thanks so much for taking the time to join us.
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Can you tell everyone who you are and what you do?
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Yeah, so I'm Tom Doyle with Uncharted Ministries and privileged to write books on what's really
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And so I think we see the terrorism, we see the bloodshed, we see the Islamic takeovers
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of countries, but that doesn't nullify the gospel.
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And Jesus said, upon this rock, I will build my church and the gates of hell will bust through
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You know, we'll bust through the gates of hell.
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And that's what's happening in places like Tehran and Gaza City and Syria.
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And so that's the story that nobody gets to hear.
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So tell us what is really going on in the Middle East.
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Well, I think, you know, I think October 7th was a day like, well, 1979 was a big year.
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If you look at 1979, the Ayatollah took over Iran.
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Saddam Hussein comes into power in Iraq, Russia invades Afghanistan, Egypt and Israel sign
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a peace treaty, and Anwar Sadat gets killed in the midst of it.
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But there's always a spiritual answer that happens, a spiritual solution.
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That was the year the Campus Crusade released the Jesus film.
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But in our lifetime, much later, October 7th, 2023, the horrible attack from Hamas on Israel.
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And it felt like Israel got about two hours of sympathy.
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And then all of a sudden it turned and anti-Semitism just came popping up out of the soil.
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And I remember the next week there was a march at UCLA, and they're going down the street
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Nobody gets called in to the dean's office for that.
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And it was like the radicals became empowered, started seeing things in Europe, started seeing
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things in the United States, six countries going after Israel.
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And so the game was on, and Israel defended herself.
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But in the midst of it, there are Muslims in all those surrounding countries that are
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frustrated with endless wars, tribalism, a religion that constricts.
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I mean, for Sharia law, for women, I mean, it's horrible what they have to go through.
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And so the word that we hear in the Middle East among young people is hopelessness.
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But all of a sudden, Jesus comes in with this hope and changes everything.
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So right now we're seeing, really in the last 10 years, more Muslims have come to faith in
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I don't even think they would know how to spin that, really, how they would tell that.
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So there's an exodus, less than 30% of the population in Iran practices Islam.
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But yet they're the big bully in the Middle East.
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But it's the fastest growing church per capita in the world.
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And your ministry is on the ground in the Middle East,
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So we have national leaders in all the countries around Israel and then in Pakistan and people
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we work with in Iran and so many things happening.
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I mean, people wouldn't know this, but in the last year, a million Bibles got into Iran.
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And so people that were willing to risk were taking them in in trucks and things were happening
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inside the country where they were being run off.
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And so it's discipling the new believers and really preparing them for persecution.
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Because if you live in Gaza and your name is Mohammed and you come to faith in Christ
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and you tell one person, you're going to be persecuted.
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And so that's what's exciting about this young church is that they're willing to suffer
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And now we're getting them almost daily from around the world of dramatic salvation stories
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in the midst of places where they could be killed for sharing it with one person.
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So it's building up the secret church, the underground church.
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We used to say the underground church that kind of took on a bad meeting with the underground
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So the secret church is emerging throughout the Middle East.
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Can you tell us one of those stories of a dramatic conversion?
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And so 20 years ago, we were in the Gaza Strip and in a refugee camp.
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And you have to go through Hamas to get in the refugee camp.
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And we're just giving out food and meeting people.
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So we asked her, okay, Akram, what's your goal in life?
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And she said, well, I think my goal in life is to get a job, graduate from college, get
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a job, and then one day have enough money to buy a laptop computer.
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And I thought, oh my gosh, I just happened to tell that story in a church in Atlanta.
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And a guy came up afterwards and said, I brought a brand new Toshiba last night.
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And so nine months later, my wife, Joanne, and I go back and we find the refugee camp.
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And we said, Akram, remember that dream you had?
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And it was like giving someone the keys to a brand new car.
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So, and we didn't want to miss this opportunity.
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We'd loaded every Christian program in Arabic on that computer, Bible versions, worship,
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Within months, she comes to faith in Christ gloriously.
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Well, we write her story in one of the books we've written.
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But she says, when you write my story, would you tell the people to pray for my husband?
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He's never on our wedding, birthday, anniversary, nothing.
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People right in the middle of the book would say, hey, stop, pray for Mohammed now.
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Which when you say that, pray for Mohammed in the Gaza Strip.
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That's like praying for half of the Gaza Strip, right?
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And dramatically, he calls one day on WhatsApp, and he is ready to meet Jesus.
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Ali Beth, you just can't believe where he was and what happened after that.
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I couldn't believe the depths of his Bible texts.
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I said to him one day, Mohammed, where are you getting these texts on the internet?
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And he said, well, I hang out with my four best friends every day.
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I thought it was some that he'd led to faith in Christ.
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And so he started growing, sending these texts.
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And he is texting, saying, I can't believe they're doing this.
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No human being should be forced to endure this.
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And so he started texting, tell the Israeli soldiers they will have them in the city below
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So we knew about a tunnel here and there, being in Gaza several times.
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We didn't know it was bigger than the subway system in London.
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And so he's sending out messages to believers in Israel, and they're messaging back, we want
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So the life change that we see with Muslims is, we know that's what Jesus said would happen,
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Because we realize, okay, yeah, there is Christian persecution, but we're not out there just getting
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Muslims are coming to faith in Christ, and they're willing to die for their faith.
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So they believe, first of all, that the Bible's corrupted, that it's been changed.
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They believe that he did not die on the cross at the last minute.
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And so they have all kinds of convoluted ideas.
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But yet, on the other hand, there's some very good verses in the Quran about Jesus that
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talk about him with glowing terms more than Muhammad talks about anybody in the Quran.
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And as you talk with Muslims, if you quote from the Quran, they will be shocked at the good
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And of course, a part of all of that, why they would be shocked is the estimate is like
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60% of all Muslims globally never read the Quran.
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They hear things from the Imam, but they don't read it.
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It's just, you know, duty and rules and culture and, you know, everything Ramadan.
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And it's a religion that swept that area with death or conversion or to pay a tax for protection.
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And generations later, many are starting to think outside the box, like, wait a minute,
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So anyway, in the worst, but we always say the worst places to be a believer are really
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the best places because they're just complete faith in Christ.
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I imagine that not everyone is receptive to the message of the gospel.
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Obviously, this is blasphemy and to leave is apostasy and you can be put to death under
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Well, you know, we've gotten thrown off the Temple Mount up in Jerusalem a couple of times
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from imams up there as we were sharing things about the Dome of the Rock.
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We were going through the West Bank with the cross.
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Arthur, bless it, took a cross into every country in the world.
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Very radical Muslims, some bad cell groups there, terrorists.
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Anyway, but we were going through with the cross.
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You could not believe it, the people that wanted to come up and touch the cross and ask questions.
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But there was one guy I could see looking out a shop at me and it looked like he had steam
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coming out of his ears and I thought, he's going to be coming after me.
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And he goes, Mr. Christian, I'll convert to Christianity if you tell me this.
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If Jesus was God, why didn't he come down off that cross?
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If Muhammad's on the cross, his followers would have taken him off.
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They would have caused the war, captured everybody, killed him.
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And I said, yeah, the reason he didn't come off the cross is because he didn't want to
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And I'm sure you've done a few bad things yourself.
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And he, well, and so he stayed there on purpose.
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And our team, our uncharted team in Syria, they actually, there were 10 leaders, and it
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And the national leader told the young team, it's getting worse, and they were already hanging
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If you want to stay here with your family, okay, I'm staying.
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But if you need to get out to Lebanon or try to immigrate to the States, we understand
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But let's pray in a week later, see what happens.
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So he came back a week later, and he said, as he was putting his hand on the doorknob in
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that room that was under a house, he thought, is anyone going to be in there?
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And he opened the door, and it wasn't the 10 men.
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And they said, we're staying, and we're prepared to die for Jesus.
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And so they went out, because they are former Muslims, former Alawites, like Bashar Assad
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They went out and bought a piece of land so they can bury each other when they die for
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And through all this ISIS and now HDS taking over, which is ISIS rebranded, nobody's been
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Like, how did God place this mission on your heart?
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I went to Dallas Seminary and we did a trip and I just was hooked and so interested in
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the Bible and history and Jewish roots and all that, really not tracking with the Muslims
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My wife, Joanne, and I, we have six kids and 17 grandkids now.
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And one day I had to get my car fixed in Denver.
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It's, I don't know, it's before the year 2000 and the car wasn't ready.
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Joanne drops me off and then the mechanic says, oh, it's not ready.
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My dad was an FBI agent, organized crime specialist.
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So I grew up in Las Vegas, born in Chicago, Mafia.
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I went to Catholic school, third grade in Las Vegas.
00:19:29.980
The only kid that didn't have an Italian last name, Parisi, Serino, Costello, all that.
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Anyway, so I'm up in Denver and, okay, go to this little place across the street.
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Two guys walk in and they're closer than you are.
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A little table, black leather jackets, closely cropped beards, Arabs, and there's whispering
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And I thought, they're going to do a terrorist act.
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Whispering in Arabic and just going back and forth, kind of looking around.
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So anyway, one of them speaks in English and just looks over at his friend and says,
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And I just went, that kind of sounds like stuff we say as Christians.
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That's kind of where they go back to Arabic, they're whispering.
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Then finally, the other guy just says, you know what?
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In English, Mohammed, Jesus is Lord over Syria.
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And I just looked at him and I said, are you guys believers?
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I mean, before I judged you and that and thought you were terrorists.
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And they sat me down and started telling me what was happening in Syria and how Muslims
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They started telling me, come to our house for dinner.
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And so I'm calling Joanne, you're not going to believe this story.
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And I thought, I've got to find out more about this.
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So then we end up going on a mission trip into the Gaza Strip.
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And immediately, Ali Bet, this covered Muslim woman comes up to me.
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And she comes across this parking lot where we're just looking at some things.
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And she grabs my arm and says, you're from America, aren't you?
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She goes, I could tell by the color of your eyes.
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She goes, did you see on September 11th when the buildings came down and the people in Gaza were cheering?
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I was crying for those people because they didn't deserve to die.
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Please forgive our people for cheering on your worst day.
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And I thought, there's human beings in the Gaza Strip.
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And so then we had a chance to go that night to meet with the believers in an apartment building filled with Muslims, except this one little apartment.
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They were talking about Muslims that they'd shared the gospel with.
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They would be killed for doing what they're just talking about.
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And I found the truth, which is our video ministry that shows, gives testimonies from Muslims that came to faith in Christ.
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And so many of them, Allie Beth, were visions and dreams and things that happened.
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And it's just unreal, some of the stories that you hear.
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They walk away from Islam, and they're willing to die for their faith.
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I'm not sure there were a lot of people in the church I pastored that were willing to die for their faith.
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You mentioned that you had kind of been skeptical of the whole dreams and visions thing.
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But you say that you've heard from ex-Muslims who were visited by Jesus in their dreams.
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And here I'm the guy that didn't believe in it.
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And I said, wow, crazy name to have as a follower of Jesus.
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Were you just dying to get out of Islam and have a relationship with God?
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Jesus started coming to me every night in dreams for 30 nights in a row.
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He goes, it's pretty hard to just push that away and say that didn't happen.
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He said, it got to the point I couldn't wait to go to bed at night because I was hoping
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Jesus would come in a dream and he would come and he would talk with me.
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We estimate that about one out of every three Muslims that comes to faith in Christ has
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There was a team that was in Jordan getting trained from Saudi Arabia on how to do secret
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They came this conference and the leader asked at the end, how many of you had a dream
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about Jesus or a vision before he came to faith in Christ?
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I was talking with my old professor at Dallas Seminary on Moody Radio and telling him, he
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And so I said to Charlie Dyer, here's a story in Iran.
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He said, you need to write a book about Muslims having dreams about Jesus.
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I don't know what evangelicals would think about it.
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Over 200 times in the Bible, there were dreams.
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Why do you think that Jesus seems to be using dreams as a way to communicate with these people?
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Well, I'm not saying that it doesn't happen here in the States, but as a pastor of a church,
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I'm sure you didn't come across as, you know, very many of your congregants who were there
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So why do you think that seems to be happening more prevalent there?
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Here's one reason I believe it could have happened.
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I mean, you look at the woman with the issue of blood and she was despised.
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And he said, daughter, your faith has healed you.
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How would he be meeting Muslims through dreams?
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And he says, Jibril, who is supposed to be Gabriel, downloaded the Quran, which we don't
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But so if you're with Muslims anywhere in the Middle East and we say, hey, I said this
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I think most people in America would say, what did you eat last night?
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So they see it as a viable way that God can communicate truth to them.
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And also the last week in Ramadan, they have a night.
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It's called, it's the middle of the last week, it's called the night of power or the night
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And Muslims will cry out, God, if you're there, show me yourself.
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That's the number one day of the year that Muslims have dreams about Jesus.
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They're crying out to God, and Jesus accommodates that cry and comes to them.
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What about in Muslim communities in the rest of the world?
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We've seen Islam grow a lot via mass migration in places like Europe, especially the UK, and
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some of those cities almost, it seems, 100% Muslim.
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Um, what is happening in those communities or those communities turning to Christ?
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There, there are many in the, you look at the worst places like Iran, Afghanistan, amazing
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We don't see a large scale where all of a sudden Rotterdam in the Netherlands is flipped over
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We're not seeing that, but there are many, and it's happening all over.
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Christians praying for Muslims that are sick, and all of a sudden they're well, and they
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know that they've been praying their whole life.
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They wonder if God's even there, and then, and then they're healed.
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So it's pretty good evidence there that something's happening.
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Um, in Dearborn, Michigan, our national leader was there.
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And it's, it's like, like me growing up around the mafia in Chicago and Vegas.
00:30:27.020
When you hear the, the name Genovese, you, you know what the family does for their business.
00:30:33.280
And, and so our national leader, Amir Salam was in Dearborn.
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He's, he said, Tom, these are people that were thrown out of Syria.
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And he said, in the next 10 years, if we don't, if they don't come to faith in Christ, or we
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don't start deporting some of these radicals, we'll have another 9-11.
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So it's paramount that we share the gospel, not only for eternity, but for now too.
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And so we're grateful for people that are willing to, to do that with Muslims.
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And many times they're just waiting to hear what Christ has for them.
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And a lot of people, myself included, have fear in that.
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On the one hand, we would love for all of our Muslim neighbors to become Christians, but
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we are a little scared to be the ones to bridge the gap because it's not the same as sharing
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the gospel with the Jewish person or even with most, you know, agnostics.
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This is a religion that in its texts say, you know, the infidel has to die.
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That doesn't mean that all of our Muslim neighbors are actively practicing that, but that is inherent
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What does it look like to build those relationships to conquer that fear and to share the gospel
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I think the best thing is to make a friendship.
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It starts one-on-one, you know, we've never seen mass stadium conversions that work.
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It's, we, we say this at Uncharted, every soul matters.
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So my wife, Joanne does a seminar for women, how to love Muslims to Christ.
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And so Joanne said, okay, ladies, I'm going to give you an assignment this week when you're
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If you see one, your job is to go up and meet them and just start a conversation.
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So it ends up that later on, we found out about that group.
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And there was one lady that was in the supermarket in Tyler, Texas, and a Muslim woman comes in
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So she starts making these promises to the Lord.
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If I go down this aisle and she's on the next aisle, I'm going to talk to her.
00:33:02.620
So she goes down the aisle, comes up, there she is.
00:33:05.880
If it's, if she's on the next aisle, I'm going to talk.
00:33:09.060
And finally it ends up, she goes, okay, Lord, here I go.
00:33:12.940
She goes around that corner and starts pushing her basket really fast toward this Muslim lady.
00:33:18.100
Well, there was another lady that had been on the other side of the store and she comes
00:33:22.400
around the corner and she's walking real fast toward this Muslim lady.
00:33:28.100
And they were just going to meet her and get her name.
00:33:30.920
And they found her to be very warm, very lonely.
00:33:39.900
And then what we like to do is tell gospel stories.
00:33:43.420
So if we meet someone, I meet Mohammed from Lebanon, I'll just say, hey, tell me your life.
00:33:53.960
And then we say, wow, okay, that's an amazing story.
00:34:02.460
The Jesus friends were in a boat one day and the wind started whipping, the waves started
00:34:07.300
And we go through that story and Jesus calms the sea.
00:34:13.800
So, hey, Mohammed, what do you think of that story?
00:34:19.800
And you're getting them to engage in the word without pulling this out, which would freak
00:34:31.380
And then after that, we say, okay, I heard your story.
00:34:46.580
And when I kept the rules, I didn't feel any closer to God.
00:34:59.480
So if you can get to that point where you share God's word, they will listen to it.
00:35:04.780
And when we say this, this is a true story from the word of God.
00:35:09.080
We have never had one Muslim say, wait a minute, wait a minute.
00:35:16.540
Somehow there was some authority there that just stopped them in their tracks and they
00:35:31.200
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What are some of the persistent questions that you get from Muslims that you are engaging
00:36:57.380
Like, what are some of the things maybe holding them back from believing that Jesus is God?
00:37:02.080
Yeah, I mean, they'll often say it's a white man's religion and not knowing that Christianity
00:37:11.920
The whole thing about Jesus saying he's the son of God, no, he's just a prophet.
00:37:19.020
But what we do is go to passages where Jesus declares that.
00:37:23.320
So if someone says, well, I don't believe that, we'll just open it up and say, well, you
00:37:27.160
know, here in John 15, it says this, read this.
00:37:46.120
Man, that is a non-starter when they go down that political road.
00:37:56.720
What messages are they hearing that is making them think that if you vote, I'm guessing
00:38:01.100
if you vote Republican, then they think, you don't like me.
00:38:06.840
So the same kind of messages that we hear in the mainstream media, they're hearing, too.
00:38:11.300
And I mean, when Obama was president, we would be in Egypt.
00:38:14.900
And I'm telling you, none of the Muslims there believed that he was a Christian because he
00:38:19.800
said he went to Jeremiah Wright's church and maybe visited a few times.
00:38:29.660
That wasn't said openly here, but it sure was out there.
00:38:32.980
That's so interesting how American media narratives and American politics, I've heard that from
00:38:39.600
We have friends that immigrated from Africa, from Kenya and Zimbabwe, and they had other
00:38:44.120
immigrant friends who just told them when they got here, hey, you don't vote Republican
00:38:48.140
if you're an immigrant, which, of course, they are very smart people and thought for
00:38:57.400
You know, he was the head of a seminary there in Zambia, I believe it was.
00:39:00.960
And he would talk about how the narratives about systemic racism and things, which I just
00:39:06.140
think are so American, actually would make their way over to places like that.
00:39:11.500
And have an effect on their ideology and theology that's fascinating and troubling.
00:39:17.980
When it comes to the threat of Islam, that we're all feeling, we are, I mean, I think
00:39:24.980
this verse, John 16, 1, it says this, Jesus said on the night that he was betrayed, all
00:39:32.160
this I have told you so that you will not fall away.
00:39:36.660
And then he says, they will put you out of the synagogue.
00:39:43.060
In fact, a time is coming when anyone who kills you will think they are doing a service
00:39:49.560
They will do this because they have not known me or the Father.
00:39:53.400
I think the first half of that verse, Allie Beth, is about Judaism and the early church.
00:39:59.080
Put them out of the synagogue, get them out of the way.
00:40:04.780
But I think the second half of that verse is about Islam.
00:40:07.620
In fact, a time is coming when they think killing you is doing a service to God.
00:40:13.540
So that's why during the 10-year war in Syria, if a vial of blood was sent to Saudi Arabia to
00:40:22.840
certain people and you could prove that it was from a Christian that lost their life,
00:40:37.340
And so there is that side, that dark, demonic side that's happening.
00:40:43.060
But then there's the people that come to faith in Christ.
00:40:47.500
And I think of this one girl, Dina, in the Gaza Strip that was a teacher.
00:40:52.660
And the teachers in the summer have to do—it's like a Hamas vacation Bible school.
00:40:59.540
So, I mean, Hamas comes in, all the school kids in a certain age group are indoctrinated.
00:41:15.980
And then later that month, they're going to have this school where every—she has to do it.
00:41:22.220
And Dina gets a hold of us and says, I'm not doing that this year.
00:41:26.880
I'm talking about Jesus, the Good Shepherd, and that He loves us.
00:41:30.960
And we're going to do crafts, and we're going to read the Bible, and we're going to tell them about Jesus.
00:41:41.060
And so we said to her, Dina, they're going to kill you for doing that.
00:41:47.480
And she said, no, I already crossed that bridge when I gave my life to Jesus.
00:41:55.060
And we got the pictures, and there's kids with signs saying, I love Jesus.
00:42:02.040
This is like Hebrews 11 today, where people are going to the worst places, you can imagine, and they're not afraid.
00:42:12.580
Not that there is no danger, but it's not as present and as imminent and as sure as it is for people there.
00:42:21.600
I mean, she's basically quoting Scripture by saying, look, I counted the cost when I came to Christ, and I already decided that my life is, you know, it's something to be laid down for the gospel.
00:42:36.740
She already died to herself, and that's how we should all think.
00:42:40.240
That's a good lesson for us from Dina about sharing the gospel here, is that it might be dangerous.
00:42:47.360
Like the promise from Jesus is not that it won't be dangerous.
00:42:52.860
It's that they can't kill your body and soul and hell.
00:42:59.660
You know, so it is happening here where people are meeting Jesus and having experiences like in the Middle East.
00:43:10.060
Summers were nice, like shorts and a sweatshirt.
00:43:14.940
And then we moved here, and it's like, oh, my gosh, it's so hot.
00:43:18.440
So I was in a meeting all day, mission meetings, like all day.
00:43:24.920
And I thought, shoot, I got to pick up Joanne, and she's all the way across town, and we have a dinner.
00:43:31.180
So I get up on the bush freeway, and the Honda says four miles till empty.
00:43:36.140
So I pull off, and there's three stations, and there's a fee now.
00:43:40.920
So I stick in my credit card, and it says, must-see cashier.
00:43:44.560
And I just went, oh, come on, Lord, can I get a break today?
00:43:49.200
And so I go into the station to put my card down, and a Muslim woman walks up to me, and she's covered.
00:43:55.060
And she's getting it set up for me to use the pump.
00:44:02.040
We do humanitarian efforts and things like that.
00:44:07.240
She goes, will you go to the Middle East a lot?
00:44:18.400
And so I said, you know, I have a book in the car about how God is honoring your people.
00:44:35.440
I wrote a book about Muslims having dreams about Jesus.
00:44:41.700
And she goes, hmm, because I've been having dreams about Jesus.
00:44:46.120
I just went, okay, Lord, forgive me for whining about the humidity.
00:44:55.820
And a couple of days later, I'm going to get gas.
00:45:03.420
So I go to the pump and I stick the card and it works perfectly.
00:45:13.680
I go in and this woman, Rawia, is reading Dreams and Visions.
00:45:24.060
And she said, Jesus has been coming to me for 30 years now in dreams.
00:45:30.340
Didn't you ever ask a Christian or go to a church and try to get answers?
00:45:38.000
I felt like people maybe were afraid of me because I was Muslim and that.
00:45:42.660
But I just knew this, that Jesus told me that he loved me so much in these dreams.
00:46:02.200
We held hands in the Fina gas station and she prayed and received Christ.
00:46:14.200
How many people are neighbors that, I don't know about them, you know?
00:46:20.260
The gospel is risky and it's time for Christians to just do it.
00:46:28.840
One friend of ours who's now with the Lord, they got excited about meeting Muslims and sharing
00:46:35.240
And they realized there was a Muslim family on their block that they'd never met for years.
00:46:41.300
As they just knocked on the door and said, we're your neighbors.
00:46:52.980
They're trying to make hummus and things that they would like.
00:46:58.160
And they show up and the kids are just like wound up.
00:47:01.780
Like they thought they drank Red Bull on the way over.
00:47:11.360
And they're excited because we lived here for 12 years.
00:47:14.880
And this is the first time we've ever been invited into someone's house.
00:47:18.940
And then they find out they're related to royalty in Kuwait.
00:47:24.480
They're not exactly on the terrorist list, you know.
00:47:30.420
Muslims are open more now than ever in 14 centuries to the gospel of Jesus.
00:47:39.980
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Now, a lot of these Muslims are leaving predominantly Muslim countries.
00:48:52.500
And the governments in places like Syria are extremely hostile for a lot of reasons, political
00:49:06.780
Are there other countries that y'all aren't able to enter?
00:49:11.780
You know, after smuggling Bibles into Iran a couple of times, maybe.
00:49:15.980
But I will never forget being there with the secret church and how they just needed Bibles.
00:49:25.340
And we were in Esfahan, which is close to a nuclear reactor that Israel just hit, you
00:49:45.000
And I mean, there was a roundabout we were on and people were just going and sticking
00:49:57.500
But God's word is always going to be triumphant, never returns void.
00:50:05.720
For those who are like, okay, I know a Muslim in our community who, you know, lives on my
00:50:12.860
I want you to finish the rest of that story that you were talking about sharing the gospel
00:50:18.860
and you said, I used to be religious, but I'm not.
00:50:23.460
And you said that your story reflected their story.
00:50:27.220
But can you bring that over the finish line so other people might be able to use that
00:50:31.720
So then you've heard their story and then we've heard God's story, stories about Jesus, and
00:50:45.280
And we shared this exactly with a guy that was a former terrorist in Syria in Jordan.
00:50:57.700
Our leaders didn't like to visit him, but we didn't know that someone had met them and
00:51:05.660
And when we said, it's so simple, you can give your lives to Christ.
00:51:09.740
The Bible says, if you confess with your lips that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart
00:51:15.340
that God has raised him from the dead, you will be saved.
00:51:19.500
You give your life to Christ, repent of your sins.
00:51:26.360
And he looked at his wife and he said, that's exactly what we've been waiting for, isn't it?
00:51:34.340
And so the hard job is after that to follow them up because that, you know, they will still
00:51:46.260
How can you get them into the word and help them grow?
00:52:00.380
And so I think it's easy to just go into the gospel and many Muslims may have to hear
00:52:12.880
The next person can pick it up, whoever God leads to them.
00:52:16.480
That's so important to remember that we are just one touch point on someone's testimony,
00:52:21.240
whether you are the person that God uses to bring them over the finish line, or you're
00:52:25.060
the very first Christian that they meet, there may have been 10,000 different moments that
00:52:36.160
Tell us what churches and pastors can be doing.
00:52:39.100
They're listening to this and they're like, I don't know if my church is doing enough to
00:52:42.120
minister to the Muslims, either abroad or here.
00:52:46.660
I think the best thing they could do, a pastor could have someone come in, maybe from our team,
00:52:51.440
and share on a Sunday morning where they can really hear how the gospel is breaking through
00:52:59.300
We always say this, if you want to tell someone truth, tell them.
00:53:05.220
If you want to change their hearts, tell them a story.
00:53:08.060
When they start seeing these stories and seeing the before and after pictures of men and women
00:53:13.420
that have come to faith in Christ that had hardened looks and all of a sudden they have the
00:53:19.780
And so then after that, it's very simple, just have a training with people on how to engage
00:53:31.700
We're doing that in Europe, works in the Middle East.
00:53:40.780
It's the largest Muslim population in America, I believe.
00:53:46.840
And so we need to be able to—God's brought them to the Bible Belt.
00:53:54.840
We have an opportunity to share with them lots of believers.
00:54:00.760
And I think it's important what you said earlier about your friend who was in Dearborn and realized,
00:54:05.660
okay, we've got some radical Muslims that are coming over here, and that presents a threat.
00:54:09.800
So you can have concerns about immigration and the Islamification of the West and love
00:54:18.060
And really, those two things kind of go hand in hand.
00:54:20.500
Like, we want them to be released from enslavement to Islam.
00:54:24.500
We want them to know Christ and bear the fruit of the Spirit.
00:54:29.880
Sometimes people pit those things against each other.
00:54:34.860
And we have concerns about immigration policy and all that.
00:54:38.260
We have a friend that was a pastor in Syria, and there was a couple that kept coming and
00:54:47.060
It's a big deal that they walk down a Christian street.
00:54:58.900
You have the underground church, the secret church, on the ground, and then the cyber church,
00:55:08.900
And he said, okay, this is the line in the sand.
00:55:11.900
If your family, if your relatives find out about this, it'll cause you problems.
00:55:20.180
Somehow a relative finds out, and the pastor finds himself arrested in northern Syria.
00:55:25.340
They take him all the way down to Damascus and put him in the third story below the ground floor.
00:55:38.640
They put him in a cell with 39 other Muslims, and it should hold about 20 people.
00:55:50.260
I mean, there's no way I'm going to escape this.
00:55:52.720
So when the guard comes in, he's just throwing pita on the floor, and they're all running for it.
00:55:59.120
He just grabs one and says, hey, in my faith, we pray before we eat.
00:56:07.040
And the guy that's kind of the head ISIS dude looks at him, what?
00:56:25.480
He leans against the wall and sits all the way down so nobody can come up behind him.
00:56:33.260
And there's a guy whispering in his ear, and he said, if we ever get out of here, can you memorize my number?
00:56:39.700
He goes, because Jesus is coming to me in dreams.
00:56:47.680
It ends up that it was six or seven come to him while he's in jail.
00:56:51.760
The end of the week, shockingly, they just let him out of jail.
00:57:03.260
And so she gets there just thinking, what's he like?
00:57:13.040
I've never seen God move with such dangerous people like that as I did in that cell.
00:57:25.200
Those guys and their families have come to faith in Christ.
00:57:28.120
Because even the radicals don't stand against Jesus' power.
00:57:39.720
Tell us more about your books, where people can get them.
00:57:44.840
And so Tom and Joanne Doyle, the last one we wrote is Women Who Risk, Secret Agents for
00:57:57.020
Joanne and I were talking about wherever we go, Iraq, Syria, all these places, it seems
00:58:05.000
And one day we were talking about that in the house and Joanne said, well, you know, I think
00:58:09.080
women are just the spiritual gatekeepers of their family.
00:58:15.180
And so if a Muslim woman comes to faith in Christ, she will tell her children.
00:58:20.000
She will tell her husband, as dangerous as that may be.
00:58:22.640
So we wrote a book about women going into their villages, sharing and telling what Christ
00:58:30.780
So Amazon, you can go to unchartedministries.com.
00:58:40.360
And you know what we don't see in the New Testament?
00:58:50.600
I mean, that's a whole other lesson that we can learn.
00:58:53.600
Because in America, we see a lot of women leaving the church, men coming to the church
00:58:59.860
But that's kind of reinvigorates me to share the gospel with those women.
00:59:05.240
That we see that example in Christ, in the New Testament.
00:59:11.140
We say, reach the Muslim woman, reach the Muslim world.
00:59:19.780
They might have the most to lose if you look at it from a particular perspective.
00:59:27.800
And your ministry, how can people learn more about that and support you?
00:59:33.260
Uncharted, you just go to unchartedministries.com, U-N-C-H-A-R-T-E-D, unchartedministries.com.
00:59:41.480
And we're about reaching the unreached, standing with the persecuted.