Ep 1290 ｜ Why Is Israel Dividing the Right？ Here's the Real Reason ｜ Dr. Frank Turek
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Summary
Candace Owens has been charged with the murder of her own husband, Mikey Owens, who was found beaten to death in front of their home. The defense team has yet to charge a suspect, and the investigation into her death is still ongoing. On this episode of the podcast, Allie talks to Frank Turek, Lucas Miles, and Blake Knapp about the ongoing investigation into Mikey's death.
Transcript
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Frank Turek, Lucas Miles, and Blake Knapp are all here to talk about the future of Christianity
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and the conservative movement in America. We have these conversations at AmFest. You guys are going
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to love them. This episode is brought to you by our friends at Dwell Bible. I love the Dwell Bible
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app. You can not only read the Word of God, but listen to the Word of God when you are going about
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your day. If you go to dwellbible.com slash Allie, you get 25% off to 50% off, depending on your
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Frank, how are you doing? I'm doing, I'm just tired because I've been doing a lot of traveling,
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but I want to tell everybody who's here, did everybody see Allie Beth on Jubilee?
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Wasn't she amazing? That's very sweet. No, I mean, it's true. It was so well done.
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I called Frank the night before and I was like, I need some advice on how to handle this. And it
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was very helpful. She, well, she knew what to say anyway. Charlie gave her advice too before that.
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He did. He did. So you represented Christ very well. Well, thank you very much. What is it like
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to be here this weekend without Charlie? As you know, it's, it's more bitter than sweet, but I'm
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still amazed at how TPUSA does this. Yeah. You know, three months after their leader has been
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murdered. And then of course the, the memorial service was amazing. These people don't miss a
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beat no matter what happens. It's incredible. Because Charlie was so good at picking talent,
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which is why it's ludicrous that Candace Owens has suggested that beat, that TPUSA has betrayed him.
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Ludicrous. And you've been very eloquent on this, by the way. Okay. So how do we push back
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against, it's just been such a discussion, such a debate, especially on the right. Like what our
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role is, if we feel like someone is making a false accusation or is pushing a theory that is just not
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founded in reality, what is our role as Christians to speak up against that? I think the same thing the
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apostle Paul did. The apostle Paul spoke up against false teachers and heresies. And it's interesting
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to me, Allie, that both Jesus and new Testament writers refer to Satan as a murderer, a liar,
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slanderer, and accuser. We had a murder. And then what did we have that followed it? Lies, accusations,
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and slander. This is, this is spiritual warfare. Right. And right now I'm, I don't know her motives,
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but Candace Owens is on the wrong side of this because she's slandering people. She's accusing
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people. She's lying. She said, Oh, if Erica asked me to stop, I'll stop. She had to stop. She's still
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doing it. So I think what we need to do is as we're doing, and I don't know if you saw Ben Shapiro here
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the other night, but he was very clear to call out that this is wrong. And he's not even a Christian.
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He's just saying we have to deal in truth here. And when we're accusing people of murder, you better
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have some really good evidence if you're going to do that. And she doesn't. Yeah. So I guess that's your
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answer to those who say, well, she's the only one asking questions. This is how investigations go.
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We have to pursue every lead, make sure every stone is turned over. What do you say to people who say that?
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I will say you can ask questions, but not the complex question. The complex question is something
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like you ask a man, when did you stop beating your wife? There's an assumption behind the question.
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Oh, he's a wife beater, right? This is appears to be what Candace is often doing. Why did Mikey turn
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away immediately and get on his phone? Oh, he must be up to something bad. No, he was doing exactly what
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Charlie told him to do. And you have had some very eloquent podcasts on this. You've talked about
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the right way to deal with this. And I think people ought to look into that. And I also want
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to mention for people that don't know, I have a friend, Jay Warner Wallace, a cold case homicide
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detective. I had him on my podcast twice to talk about this. He points out that the prosecution is
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not going to reveal the evidence that they have or even what they're doing, because if they do,
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they're going to jeopardize the case. Why are they going to jeopardize the case? If they say,
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for example, they're looking into a second shooter, they don't know if somebody comes forward
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and says, Oh, I saw the second shooter, whether that guy really saw the second shooter, or he is
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just trying to make a name for himself, right? Or if they say, we have witness X. They don't want
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to tell you they have witness X, because what is the media going to do and the defense going to do?
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They're going to go after witness X. In fact, I think this happened in the OJ Simpson trial,
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if I'm not mistaken. There was a woman who saw OJ leaving the scene. And the prosecution made it
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known that she was a witness. She wound up selling her story to a media outlet. And then she was
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invalid as a witness because she had been bought off, they say. So the prosecution is not going to
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tell you what they're doing. I know they're checking into conspiracy theories. Why? Because
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I was the subject of one of them, the guy in the white hat, the stupid white hat theory you heard
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about. I was signaling the shooter. They called me on that. The FBI said, were you signaling the
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shooter? I said, yeah, I was telling him to steal second base. Like, are you crazy? It makes no
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sense. You don't need to signal anyone. The guy knows who Charlie Kirk is. He's the guy under the
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tent with the microphone. It's ridiculous. But people believe that. But it does go to show that,
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because a lot of people have said, why is it the FBI doing this? Why aren't they asking this person?
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I don't think that we are privy to all of the things that the authorities are doing. Not saying that we
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should blindly trust any government institution or any institution at all. But what you're saying is you did get
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called, even though it's a conspiracy theory, they did call you. Yes. And by the way, the FBI is not
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the lead. The Utah police are. Now, I would be more skeptical if this, if the Biden DOJ was in charge
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and we were in, say, California and we had a liberal DA, I would be even more skeptical. But we're in
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red Utah. There's a Republican there. And of course, Dan Bongino, who's now left, but the Cash Patel,
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they're all friends of Charlie. So I don't think they're going to fudge anything. And all this is going
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to come out at trial anyway. So we have to wait for the trial. Not that we can't ask questions,
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but the questions are not going to be answered by the prosecution now because they'll taint the jury.
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They'll jeopardize their case. They have to be very methodical and hold their cards close to the
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vest. And anybody that's done a prosecution, particularly a murder trial, will tell you
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Are you surprised at how divided we have become over Israel?
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It is a little odd, but let me just say that Jew hatred is not a conservative value.
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So why would we want to be conserving Jew hatred to begin with? If you hate Jews,
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I don't consider yourself a conservative. I wouldn't consider yourself a conservative because
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you're not conserving what is good, right, and true. So I don't know why, other than this is more
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spiritual warfare. We're getting people in saying, oh, I voted for Trump, but I hate Jews or I hate
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Israel. So what do you say to the people who say, well, I don't hate Jews. I don't hate Israel.
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I just think that we're taking too much money from AIPAC and I just want to criticize Israel.
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It's not Jew hatred. That's fine. You can criticize Israel, but I always ask people who say that,
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have you read the Hamas charter? And they always say no, except I had one guy today that proved me
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wrong, said yes. Tell us what it is. The Hamas charter basically says that the only way forward
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is to kill Jews. Jihad is the only way. And they say in there that all these conferences to have a
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two-state solution are a waste of time because they don't want a two-state solution. They want a one-state
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solution. From the river to the sea means all the Jews are dead. We get the land. Right. And the two-state
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solution really was set up by Winston Churchill way back after World War I. It's the country of
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Jordan. But Jordan does not want the Palestinians because many of them are jihadists. Egypt doesn't
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want them either. They're jihadists. So if their own people don't want them, I have a question. Why
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would Israel want them? Right. Right. Also, this is not many people really think about this very often,
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but people will always say, well, we can't bless Israel because they're apostate. You hear this all
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the time, right? Well, bless doesn't mean you agree with people on everything. Bless means you tell
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them where they're wrong. As the proverb says, watch the kisses of an enemy, but the wounds of a friend
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are good. We don't rubber stamp everything Israel does. And newsflash, the entire Old Testament
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Israel was apostate. Every king was a bad king. There was only a couple on the southern kingdom
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that were good. They're all apostate. God will deal with them. We're supposed to look out for
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the Jews and Israel, but that doesn't mean we have to agree with them on everything.
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And of course, we want all people to be saved through Christ. Of course. And so we share the
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gospel with everyone. Okay. This is the dividing issue, though, on the right and even among some
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Christians. So going forward, what does it look like? Do we find consensus on the issue? Are we
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trying to change people's minds? Do we kind of push it to the side? Is non-fundamental? What do you
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think it looks like? You mean Israel? Yes. I think we just speak the truth and live the results to God.
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We're not going to bow down and say that Israel isn't a friend of the U.S. It generally is a friend
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of the U.S. And think about this. Israel has a land mass that is about 700. Let me put it another
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way. The Muslim countries around Israel, Turkey, Syria, Lebanon, Jordan, Saudi Arabia, and Egypt
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have a land mass 700 times the size of Israel. And Israel is supposed to give up land? Right.
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Hello? Why? I don't understand. It has nothing to do with fairness. Yeah.
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So Hamas wants all Jews dead. And how can you side with them? You can't. Doesn't mean everything
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Israel does is correct. We have to give them wounds of a friend when they do wrong. But to say,
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you know, who are the good guys and bad guys in this? I mean, can you imagine, Ali, if a cartel in
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Mexico, and Charlie and I were talking about this the day before he was murdered, if a cartel in Mexico
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had in their charter somewhere that they wanted to kill all Americans, they came across the border,
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they proportionally killed 30,000 Americans, they took another 30,000 and dragged them across the
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border. Would any American have any mystery about who the good guys and bad guys were? What would we
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do? We would take out that cartel, we would rescue the hostages, and then we'd have a parade how good we
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were to kill the evil bad guys. And yet, somehow when it comes to Israel, we lose our minds. I think
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it's demonic. Yeah. Wow. It's so interesting and very disturbing. Yes. The division that it's caused
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and very surprising to me, but you've given a lot of clarity to it. Can you just leave us with
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a message of hope? What's the most hopeful thing you can think of before Christmas? That we're saved
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by grace, not by works, that Jesus came into the world to take our punishment upon himself. And by
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trusting in him, we're not only forgiven, we're given his righteousness. And Christianity is the answer
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to the problem of evil. If we had never sinned, there'd be no reason for Jesus to come to earth.
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But because of our sin, he came to earth. And by trusting in him, we are forgiven. That's the real
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message of Christmas. Amen. Amen to that. Amen. Thank you so much, Frank. I appreciate it. Thank you.
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Watch Relatable with the great Allie Beth Stuckey, ladies and gentlemen. Thank you.
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Okay. I tried out a new slow cooker over the weekend and I loved it. It's amazing, but this is
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Lucas, thanks so much for taking the time to join us.
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Hey, thanks for having me on here. It's great to be with you.
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You just told me off camera that you and your wife are about to celebrate 25 years
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of marriage. Does he look like he could be married for 25 years? I know. I didn't think
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so either. Okay, what is your, what's your top advice that you give couples?
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Jeez. You know what? I think that you really have to have a foundation in just what I would say,
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the gospel. If you don't understand that you by yourself are completely depraved and you have
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no righteousness of your own, when you get that and you talk about that, it allows you to have
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conversations to say, this is how I'm feeling. It might not be the truth, but it's how I'm feeling.
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Can you help me sort through this rather than just making accusations and these sort of things?
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So we've really focused on communication, obviously putting the Lord first. We've had
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some great mentors along the way too that made a big difference in our lives.
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And it's something that I think is lost among a lot of young Christians today. Young Christians are
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too scared to ask. Older Christians are maybe too scared to ask and say, hey, I want to give you
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advice. So there does seem to be a gap going on in the church.
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I think that, you know, with mentors, I always tell people that there's something that you have
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to seek out. If you want mentor, you don't wait for the mentor to come to you and say,
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hey, I'd like to mentor you. You have to be willing to. And most people, you know, like in our space,
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if somebody comes to us and they're genuine and they're normal, you know, and they say, hey,
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I'm working on this. I'd love to buy you a cup of coffee and maybe pick your brain for a little bit.
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Like you're honored by that. Like if you can make time for that,
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like you would totally say yes to it. And I think that when you're in proximity to people,
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you're not trying to force it. You're not just interrupting people at dinner to see if they're
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going to mentor you, but you know, you're willing to build real relationship with them and take the
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time. Like it's, it's an honor to do that. And so I always encourage young people to like,
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look for that. I always try to have people I'm mentoring as well as people that are speaking
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into my life. And the cool thing about my job right now is I get to hang out with some of the
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biggest pastors around the nation that have, you know, just these wisdom filled guys with all sorts of,
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you know, experience in ministry that can, that, you know, as much as we're working with them,
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and TPSA faith, they're also pouring into me and it's, it's, it's a nice perk.
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Yeah. What's the hardest part of being a pastor?
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Hardest part of being a pastor. I think that the, uh, you know, Sunday comes every week,
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you know, it's, it's, it's always, there's always, you know, another, you know, seven days away. And so
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I think that, um, get keeping your heart at a place to where you feel that, um, you are in tune
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with the Lord that you can give regular good, um, you know, just, uh, uh, content and, and, you know,
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sermons to your congregation. And then at times you're just getting pulled in a million directions.
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And so it's that much more important that you're keeping yourself, like you're making time for your
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own spirituality. Cause it's easy for like, you're, you're reading to the word to be just write a
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sermon rather than just like, Lord, I need, I, you and I need some time together right now.
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And I think that that's one of the bigger challenges when you do this stuff for a living.
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Yeah. Okay. Let's talk about the challenge that pastors seem to have sometimes in speaking into
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a cultural moment. They might be scared of dividing their congregation or they're like,
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am I just being controversial for the sake of being controversial? And they might have a hard time
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figuring out what is political that I don't need to talk about. And what is actually biblical?
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Yeah. I think that, you know, in my work as a senior director at TPUSA faith,
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and I had the honor of working under Charlie Kirk for the past 18 months. And, uh, it was an
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incredible experience. Um, every day with Charlie felt historic and even more so now we, we talked a
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lot about the three types of pastors. There's true pastors and there's traitorous pastors. And then
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there's this middle category of trembling pastors. I think a lot of pastors are in that space where
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they're ideologically maybe aligned with biblical truth. They want to do the right thing. Um, but
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there's all the other reasons, you know, I'm afraid of losing my congregation. I'm afraid of,
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you know, financial laws. I don't know if I feel, um, as versed on these topics to be able to talk.
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I mean, and let's face it like Marxism, CRT, DEI, like Islam, like these are robust topics that take
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a lot of time. Like you and I've done a lot of work to like read these things and know these things.
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And, and the average pastor hasn't done that. They're not learning that stuff at Bible colleges,
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many of which are woke. And so they're set up for, they're set up for failure really from the
00:18:08.140
beginning. And I think that, you know, I remember one of the things that Charlie said to me is that
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courage is easy. All you have to do is say yes. You know, you don't have to have a degree on the
00:18:15.060
wall. You don't have to have a bunch of money. You don't have to have good looks. You just have to
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be willing to say like, here I am, Lord, send me and then walk in it. And, uh, and I think we need
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more pastors to do that. They're kind of like giddy and heightened in the wine press, hoping the battle's going to go on
00:18:25.960
without them and they don't need to get in the fight. And I think what we're trying to do at TPSA
00:18:29.240
is be that voice coming alongside of them and saying, rise up, you mighty valiant warrior. It's
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You know, one subject that you've talked about a lot that I find is really hard for pastors who've
00:19:57.360
got it on abortion. They've got it on marriage and gender. They're strong on those issues. It's the
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racial social justice stuff, like totally fumbled the ball during 2020, which I know it was difficult.
00:20:09.260
I want to have grace for that, but sounded so much like BLM or the world when it came to race
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and justice, even though they have it right on everything else. Why is that?
00:20:19.320
You know, I've said a lot of times that I don't, I don't have shame for a pastor that at the start,
00:20:25.960
after George Floyd, in the middle of COVID, everything else is going on. If they put a black
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square on Instagram for, you know, six months and assuming that after some point in time,
00:20:35.860
they realized like, oh, wait a minute, I got bamboozled. Like this is actually supporting a
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Marxist anti-family, anti-God organization. And they went back and repented, but I've not seen
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one of these guys go back and repent of that and actually acknowledge this, not publicly. Right.
00:20:48.180
And so, you know, that's concerning to me. And again, I think there's an education issue.
00:20:52.040
A lot of people, they don't know the history of liberation theology. They don't know that it's
00:20:55.780
a hybrid between Marxism and, you know, in Christianity, they don't, they, you know, they can't,
00:21:00.520
they don't know about James Cone. They don't know about, you know, this idea of kind of,
00:21:03.820
you know, crucifying the white Jesus, you know, type of language that you see.
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And so when you don't have a history and you want to, you want to be likable, I mean,
00:21:10.720
being a pastor, oftentimes there's the temptation to feel like a politician.
00:21:14.140
Your job is to gather people is what you think your job is. It's not really your job.
00:21:18.620
Your job is actually to proclaim the full counsel of the word of God,
00:21:20.980
but you think your job is to gather people because that's what feels like success.
00:21:25.120
And so what happens is you want to please people. And especially if you're in a community
00:21:28.520
with a lot of diversity, you're afraid of saying certain things, especially if you're a white guy
00:21:32.880
that looks like me, you've like, I can't say certain things from the stage or talk about certain
00:21:36.820
issues. But when you actually learn about these things, you realize this is not, we're not talking
00:21:40.480
about racism. We're talking actually about Marxism and that there's been a mass deception that has
00:21:44.660
happened and it's worked its way into a lot of congregations, white, black, and all in between.
00:21:49.240
And when you start actually being able to kind of dissect this and pull it apart,
00:21:52.800
I think that the enemy gets exposed and you're able to deal with that. But it's that when you
00:21:57.060
don't know it and you don't, you're not able to kind of walk, you know, or, you know,
00:22:00.380
navigate kind of that language. It's easy just to be like, I'm, I, can I say black, you know,
00:22:06.360
you know, can I say these things? And you just kind of stumble through this and it gets really
00:22:09.820
weird real fast. Yeah, it really does. Charlie loved talking about woke pastors. Every time he
00:22:15.820
would interview me on his show, he would be like, why won't these pastors say anything? And I'm sure
00:22:20.300
y'all had so many conversations. I talked him down from putting billboards over churches a couple
00:22:24.840
of times. He's like, we should get a billboard and put it. And I'm like, maybe not on that highway
00:22:29.380
right there. You know, maybe not. I like the passion behind it. He was, he, and he had a hard
00:22:34.880
time because he was willing to go out there. Obviously we've seen that the full expression
00:22:38.780
that Charlie was willing to put himself in harm's way. The start of this year, we did like a four
00:22:42.560
hour dinner to kick the year off. And it was just me, him and Mikey. And we sat at restaurant outside
00:22:46.520
in Phoenix. And it was, it was one of my most memorable moments with him. It was one of those
00:22:52.760
days where he just, he had all the time in the world to work through every issue. And, you know,
00:22:57.180
one of the things he said to me is he said, Lucas, he goes this year, he's like, I want
00:22:59.980
our theme word for faith to be grit. And he's like, if we're not close enough to people,
00:23:04.680
when we're sharing the gospel with them, or we're going out there for people to punch
00:23:07.840
us, we're probably not close enough. And, you know, and obviously, you know, he lived
00:23:11.580
that and then some, and, and we really took that to heart. We've been doing a lot more content,
00:23:15.540
you know, out there on the street, man on the street. We've been walking up and down
00:23:18.220
the strip in Vegas, talking to people about faith. We're going out to, you know, places
00:23:21.400
where people are and asking the tough questions and really to having to have those dialogues and
00:23:25.840
the, the ask me anything, prove me wrong style events. Uh, and we're going to be doing a lot
00:23:29.840
more of those in this new year. Look, the worst they can do is they can kill us. And that's not
00:23:33.460
so bad after all, when you're in Christ. And so we're going to keep this going and we don't want
00:23:37.800
Charlie's, you know, life or his death to be in vain. Yeah. He talked a lot about making heaven
00:23:42.700
crowded. And I think you just really saw an acceleration of that desire in the last few months of his life.
00:23:48.160
You worked with him closely, so you know, but even just me watching him, he talked more and
00:23:53.080
more about theology and the gospel and evangelism was just so evident that it was a passion,
00:23:58.500
the passion of his heart. Well, first off, Charlie was a huge fan of yours. He liked having you at
00:24:02.300
virtually every event that we did. Um, and, uh, he was always just a, he loved, I think the, the passion,
00:24:07.640
the grit, the tenacity that you have, uh, willing to kind of go after it in these things. And, you
00:24:12.300
know, he was, uh, he was a champ. He just thought you were a champion and he was a champion of yours.
00:24:16.240
Um, you know, Charlie, I think that over the last, I met him in 2020, there was certainly an evolution
00:24:21.180
where faith became more and more important in his life. And, you know, certainly over the last few
00:24:25.420
years, it is, it, it was evident. It was the foundational layer to everything that he did.
00:24:29.760
And this idea of making heaven crowded, recognizing that, you know, um, it's what it's all about. My,
00:24:34.780
my last, uh, communication with him was about two days before he died and he was coming back from
00:24:40.540
Japan. And I had been, um, giving him some Intel on some of the churches and theology that was
00:24:44.940
happening in Japan and, uh, for a talk that he was doing over there. And he shot me a message back
00:24:50.340
and he said, Lucas, you'll never believe it. I was able to share the gospel with this tremendous
00:24:53.760
group and massive group of Japanese leaders. I think is the way he worded it. And the last thing
00:24:57.920
I said to him was I was so proud of him. And, uh, you know, it was, um, obviously I wish I could
00:25:02.360
talk to him right now. I wish he was still here with us, but we, we ended on such a great note.
00:25:06.480
And the last thing that we talked about was, was really making heaven crowded by sharing the gospel
00:25:10.820
with people, you know, overseas. And so we want to keep that going here in the U S we're
00:25:15.100
launching a new tour. Uh, Eric has already announced it called make heaven crowded. We're going
00:25:19.340
to about 30 cities across the country, hopefully to a city, uh, near all of you that are out here.
00:25:23.640
We're kicking off the first one at Greg Laurie's church in California on January 21st. And, uh,
00:25:29.140
we've got a high, high probability that Erica is going to be there with us myself, big worship
00:25:34.540
band, pastor Greg Laurie, a lot of other speakers will be showing up at these. They're one night
00:25:38.200
only. And then we go on, but we're doing one in, um, uh, in Greg Laurie's. Then we're jumping
00:25:42.100
down to, uh, awaken church there in San Diego as well. So, and more to come as these announcements
00:25:47.020
follow. Amazing. Well, that answers my last question, which was just, what is the vision
00:25:52.240
for turning point faith? Why did Charlie start it? But that's it to make heaven crowded.
00:25:57.240
Yeah. And I'll say this, that, that, you know, look, I, the opportunity to work with Charlie
00:26:00.640
the last 18 months and Charlie always gave me a pretty long leash in my role. I mean,
00:26:04.260
I had a lot of autonomy. Um, and he would just tell me like, Hey, go for it and go big,
00:26:08.240
you know, and we're continuing to do this. We have more resolve than ever. Our team at TPSA
00:26:12.120
faith is so united. We've got some of the best staff in the world and, uh, we are looking
00:26:16.120
to unite the church around primary doctrine and eradicate wokeism from the American church.
00:26:20.260
Amen. Well, I am right there with you, linking arms with y'all, have y'all's back and praying
00:26:25.160
for y'all. Absolutely. Thank you, Lucas. Really? Thank you.
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00:27:26.560
Blake, thanks so much for taking the time to join us.
00:27:28.260
Oh, thank you for having me. Thank you so much.
00:27:29.980
Okay. For those who don't know, can you tell us who you are and what you do?
00:27:33.120
I am a producer on The Charlie Kirk Show. I was very much in the background of Charlie's
00:27:40.940
show. Producer Blake, get me some info if you listened here. Before that, I worked on Tucker
00:27:47.180
Carlson's show at Fox. So I've hovered in the background of a lot of historic individuals
00:28:02.600
It's been very different. I've been at a lot of turning point events and I think I'd
00:28:06.460
been recognized once. It was at our Detroit event a year ago. Someone wanted a photo of
00:28:10.780
me for some reason. Now it happens more frequently. It does take some getting used to. You really,
00:28:16.180
you do see how it gets exhausting for a lot of people. But Charlie was a good example on that
00:28:21.160
front. Never let him get it down. Never let it get him down. Always very happy to take a photo
00:28:25.660
to smile for people. And we have to imitate that.
00:28:29.260
Okay, so you're obviously a very fact-driven person. That's kind of, I mean, I would hope so.
00:28:34.660
But I mean, that's basically been your role. And so I imagine just with a lot of the controversy
00:28:39.620
that's surrounded Charlie and his death and a lot of the conspiracy theories, obviously,
00:28:44.800
you plan to debunk a lot of the things that Candace was saying. What has that been like for you,
00:28:50.220
even just personally, to feel like people are running with fiction?
00:28:53.840
It's frustrating. It's challenging. It leads to real pain. I think that's why
00:29:02.940
I certainly wanted us to respond to that. It was so painful to see people I knew personally,
00:29:10.580
who I knew had done nothing wrong, both done nothing wrong and never sought the spotlight in
00:29:15.060
any way. Yeah. That they were good employees, good helpers, good friends to Charlie. And entirely
00:29:21.500
because of that, for them to be singled out for incredibly nasty attacks. And there was a comparison
00:29:27.940
that we made when we were making that initial response that so much of what was said and done,
00:29:34.160
it was so similar to what the worst people in Antifa do, where they take this real delight in
00:29:41.040
tormenting people. And I just have to say, for a lot of them, there clearly was not an interest in
00:29:47.960
seeking the truth, as they would say. There clearly was, for some people, an element that
00:29:53.520
they enjoyed hurting people, and they liked to find an excuse to do that. And that's something that's
00:29:59.480
so common on the left. There's a line, I can't remember who said it, but there are a few things
00:30:03.660
more intoxicating than to be told that you can do cruelty to someone, and it's morally righteous to
00:30:09.980
do so. And the left loves to do that, that they'll find their cause that is their justification to
00:30:16.060
victimize and bully and persecute and hurt people. And it's unfortunate to see that come out of this
00:30:23.980
tragedy. And so many good things have come out as well. The revival that we've all seen,
00:30:27.700
the people who's seen all the people come out whose lives were transformed by Charlie,
00:30:33.160
that's the good thing. And that greatly outweighs the bad. But the bad is still there.
00:30:37.460
Yeah. The timing of kind of your announcement that, hey, we're going to start fact checking
00:30:42.940
some of these theories. Some people obviously would have preferred y'all not say anything.
00:30:47.620
And then you've got other people that are like, what took y'all so long? So what was the thinking
00:30:53.060
behind when you made the announcement, okay, we're going to go point by point?
00:30:56.840
I don't want to speak too much to that because it was a private discussion we had inside. And I don't
00:31:02.520
want to say exactly what motivated everything. I just want to acknowledge there were arguments both
00:31:07.520
ways. And that's one reason it happened the way it did, that there was certainly an impulse initially
00:31:13.900
to say, and I said this in the statement, that so much of this is so strange that it really should
00:31:22.420
just be ignored or, and some thought if you give it no oxygen, it will eventually go away.
00:31:28.300
But at that point it had been more than two months and it was not going away. It was only growing in
00:31:34.280
intensity and it was taking on. And I think it was an important factor, I think, for why we did choose
00:31:40.040
to do something that I'll acknowledge is it felt, I think it was damaging a lot of people who were close
00:31:47.560
to Charlie who were being victimized in this way. And it was dispiriting for people to think that
00:31:52.740
they were being left out there and that they were feeling abandoned. And I really thought we had to
00:31:56.820
send the message. These people are not being abandoned. We are not throwing them to the wolves.
00:32:01.920
These people are innocent and we should say that.
00:32:04.940
And I think it was important for people to hear it, hear that, especially people who are just
00:32:11.100
Yeah. Obviously, you know, there was a meeting of the minds between Erica and Candace and we don't
00:32:16.300
have to talk about, you know, what went into that conversation because we don't really know, but
00:32:20.380
I certainly was praying for peace. I think we all were because we want to focus on the right things.
00:32:26.780
Moving forward, is the hope just to kind of ignore and fight the fight that, you know, like Charlie
00:32:35.180
What we do, that will ultimately be Erica's call. And that dictated a lot of this, that
00:32:39.260
well, she has the absolute authority over turning point and to decide, and as Charlie's widow, to
00:32:45.200
decide how to respond to anything about it. And so that's in her hands. I think you're correct.
00:32:50.700
What we want is we want the focus to be on Charlie's life's work. And Charlie's life's work was not
00:32:57.620
responding to weird theories about him. Charlie's life's work was spiritual revival,
00:33:02.320
American revival, young people revival, successful families, having children, all of those things
00:33:10.120
that he talked about. That's what he wants to focus on. And that's the mission. We remain,
00:33:15.440
we who remain have to be committed to. Yeah. What is it like the moment that you walked into
00:33:21.320
AmFest for the first time, you see these giant pictures of Charlie's face. I imagine it was
00:33:26.600
emotional, but what was going through your mind?
00:33:28.660
It is. It is. Not even Charlie's face. What really stood out to me was that in the hotel
00:33:35.220
we're staying at across the way, they even decorated the wall there. And it's that photo
00:33:38.800
that everyone's seen of Charlie holding his fist up like that. And it does hit you. What always
00:33:45.340
hits me again is just seeing that and it does come to mind. I'm not going to see him in this life
00:33:53.020
again. Yeah. And I have so many of those memories of him in the arena, him in private, him preparing
00:34:00.960
for the show, him traveling. And I'll have those memories, but they will fade. But what will always
00:34:07.520
be there is Charlie as he was, that warrior for the faith, that warrior for America.
00:34:14.280
There's a line I always think of. It's from a World War One poem where it says, they shall
00:34:22.780
not grow old. And that's Charlie. He shall not grow old. We're going to wither. We're going
00:34:27.520
to age. We're going to fade away. Charlie does not fade away. He is always as bright as he
00:34:33.840
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This event just feels significant for the right. And I guess for the country, it just feels like we are
00:35:55.180
entering into a new era, whatever that is, a new political era. Obviously, there's been a lot of
00:36:01.800
disagreements on stage at America Fest, which I think is good. It's certainly entertaining, but it
00:36:07.140
just shows that we're not afraid of disagreement and debate. But do you feel that way that for some
00:36:12.820
reason, it just feels like this is the initiation of a new season for conservatism? And what do you
00:36:18.320
think that looks like for us to come together and build a coalition?
00:36:21.180
I think you're right. I said the other day, Charlie chose the date of this very well,
00:36:26.580
which is almost happenstance. It's obviously around this time because we have so many students.
00:36:30.580
You can't have it in the middle of the school year. You have the summer and you have the Christmas
00:36:35.160
break. And those are the two big opportunities to have something. But it works out well because it's
00:36:40.280
the end of the year. So it's either right after the election, you need to whip people up and remind
00:36:44.700
them, yeah, guys, we have to, the battle continues. Or it's the start of an election year. And this is
00:36:50.560
when you, first of all, that's when you want to have those debates. You don't want the debate to
00:36:53.760
be happening in October with the election two weeks out. It's much better to have it the month
00:36:58.520
after that election when this is when you can hash out the big stuff. For the movement at large,
00:37:04.680
you're correct. I think we're all aware we've had two Donald Trump elections. So we're moving into
00:37:10.400
a post, there will be a post-Trump era of conservatism. And there's going, and also that a lot of the
00:37:18.240
debates that really defined that era, like how do we feel about immigration, for example,
00:37:22.440
those have actually reached towards a resolution. There's a lot of more agreement on that than there
00:37:26.380
was 10 years ago. So there are new issues people disagree on. And those are going to be hashed out.
00:37:32.160
And they're not as, it's not as decided which way they're going to go. You know, a thing that
00:37:38.300
happened, we had our subscribers, our members room, where we've been interviewing people. And we
00:37:44.440
asked them, who do you agree with among the speakers? And for example, we compared Ben and
00:37:49.380
we compared Tucker. And a lot of hands went up for both. I'll just say that it was a pretty equal
00:37:54.400
number. That is a debate that will be hashed out. And we have to put an emphasis as Charlie would,
00:37:59.920
if it's evenly matched, neither side is going to destroy the other. Neither side is going to purge
00:38:05.160
the other. There must be an approach towards synthesis. And that will be challenging. Charlie
00:38:10.000
recognized it was very challenging. But it's work that must be done. Sorry, we have a crazy,
00:38:17.980
crazy fan. We're going to have to call security. We need the DHS people to deport that man.
00:38:23.440
You know what? I've been thinking the same thing. Jack Posobiec, causing trouble.
00:38:30.040
Posobiec, I don't remember that name signing the Declaration of Independence. Good point.
00:38:34.380
Yeah. Okay. Anyway, are you surprised? Are you surprised that that is the issue that's divided us?
00:38:44.780
A little. And there's both good and bad aspects to it. It's a little surprising and weird because
00:38:51.620
a bit, let's be frank, a big issue among it, it's how you feel about a different country that is not
00:38:56.780
America and what you want your policy to be. It's a little weird. Now, what I think is the positive
00:39:02.040
about that is that does also mean it's not super duper foundational the way. Well, that's what I
00:39:10.220
think too. But it seems like a lot of people disagree with that. I would agree that it's not
00:39:13.940
foundational. And that's almost, I think, the disagreement. And that's not to downplay that
00:39:18.000
it's very important to many people. It is a very important issue to people. And I understand that and
00:39:23.200
accept it. But it is not, I mean, it's not on the level of how you feel about the First Amendment of
00:39:29.200
the Constitution, how you feel about what it means to be an American. And that gives me optimism that
00:39:36.240
certainly, for example, that you can reach a synthesis. If you're debating something like
00:39:40.860
the First Amendment of the Constitution, I don't think you really can have just, oh, here's a handy
00:39:45.840
synthesis where we'll agree, you know, we'll find a compromise on this. You're naturally much more
00:39:51.300
uncompromising about that. Whereas I do think on this issue, we'll be able to battle towards
00:39:57.040
something that there will be extremists who are not satisfied with anything but total victory. But
00:40:03.300
I think there will be a much larger number of people who can be satisfied with a center position
00:40:09.800
that emerges after some debate. That's what I'm hopeful for.
00:40:13.680
I'm hopeful for that too. Okay, speaking of hope, I want you to give us some hope. You're a history buff,
00:40:19.600
And a lot of times it feels like, okay, this is the worst that it's ever been. It's the most divided
00:40:25.140
that we've ever been as a country or as a party, and we could never get out of this.
00:40:29.400
Is there anything that we can look at, any era that we can look at history that can say,
00:40:34.280
There's a great one. The funny thing is, I think it was a book called Fears of a Setting Sun,
00:40:40.400
but I might be getting that wrong. An amazing thing is, if you read what the founders were writing
00:40:45.100
late in their lives, early 1800s, a lot of them believed, we screwed it up, America is a failure,
00:40:52.960
everything stinks, the revolution was for nothing. You have Jefferson writing this,
00:40:57.080
you have Madison writing this. The founders were blackpilled. They were blackpilled during what we
00:41:01.980
now know was the beginning of a very glorious century for America. And they had reasons to think
00:41:08.280
this. They could look at, for example, the slavery divide and think, there's no way this is ever going
00:41:13.120
to be resolved. And in fact, it was resolved very traumatically. And it just built and it caused
00:41:17.680
so much bad blood, so much conflict. We have political violence in America. In the 1850s,
00:41:23.980
you had Americans butchering each other in Kansas, even before the Civil War. And yet,
00:41:29.680
America went on to have an incredibly triumphant late 19th century, an incredibly triumphant 20th
00:41:36.060
century. It can look very bad in the short term, incredibly bad. And yet, we can misread things.
00:41:42.960
We can miss things. We can overcome things. And I think that's a big lesson you can take away
00:41:50.940
Okay, last thing. What is the individual's responsibility if we want to enter into a new
00:41:58.080
The individual's responsibility, live like Charlie. I think they've got that sign here,
00:42:02.740
we are all Charlie Kirk. That is aspirational. You must make yourself into a Charlie Kirk or
00:42:07.900
Charlotte Kirk. An Erica Kirk. We'll go. A Charlie or an Erica.
00:42:11.020
He said courage is a choice. It's a choice that you make.
00:42:12.900
Courage is a choice. And virtue is a choice. Charlie really believed in that, that this was
00:42:17.420
something you could cultivate every day. And his discipline was tremendous. His personal agency was
00:42:23.460
tremendous. He was a person who you really admired more and more. The more you interacted with
00:42:29.660
him, the more you saw how he functioned. And he really is an example of the sort of hero anyone
00:42:37.820
can be. Like, if you read about Albert Einstein, okay, I could never be Albert Einstein. I'm just
00:42:42.160
not as smart as him. I could never be Michael Jordan. I am not as tall or as good at basketball
00:42:47.380
as him. Even if I practiced 10,000 hours, I would not be remotely as good. But Charlie, so much of what
00:42:53.400
made him good was the sort of thing anyone can do. You can cultivate discipline. You can cultivate
00:42:58.760
virtue. You can cultivate agency. You can't cultivate being six foot five. But most of what
00:43:05.240
made Charlie amazing was this. It was the ability that is perfectly accessible to an ordinary person.
00:43:13.160
And if you look at the way he lived his life, and he literally just wrote a book about a big thing about
00:43:18.760
how he lived his life, if you read that and follow it, I think you will be able to bring about that
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America that he wanted us to have. Amen. Well, thank you so much, Blake. Thank you very much, Allie.