Relatable with Allie Beth Stuckey - Ep 1290 ｜ Why Is Israel Dividing the Right？ Here's the Real Reason ｜ Dr. Frank Turek

00:00:00.280 Frank Turek, Lucas Miles, and Blake Knapp are all here to talk about the future of Christianity

00:00:05.340 and the conservative movement in America. We have these conversations at AmFest. You guys are going

00:00:09.820 to love them. This episode is brought to you by our friends at Dwell Bible. I love the Dwell Bible

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00:00:30.000 Frank, how are you doing? I'm doing, I'm just tired because I've been doing a lot of traveling,

00:00:42.920 but I want to tell everybody who's here, did everybody see Allie Beth on Jubilee?

00:00:47.980 Wasn't she amazing? That's very sweet. No, I mean, it's true. It was so well done.

00:00:53.400 I called Frank the night before and I was like, I need some advice on how to handle this. And it

00:00:58.540 was very helpful. She, well, she knew what to say anyway. Charlie gave her advice too before that.

00:01:05.040 He did. He did. So you represented Christ very well. Well, thank you very much. What is it like

00:01:10.560 to be here this weekend without Charlie? As you know, it's, it's more bitter than sweet, but I'm

00:01:19.120 still amazed at how TPUSA does this. Yeah. You know, three months after their leader has been

00:01:24.600 murdered. And then of course the, the memorial service was amazing. These people don't miss a

00:01:30.660 beat no matter what happens. It's incredible. Because Charlie was so good at picking talent,

00:01:35.520 which is why it's ludicrous that Candace Owens has suggested that beat, that TPUSA has betrayed him. 0.89

00:01:42.000 Ludicrous. And you've been very eloquent on this, by the way. Okay. So how do we push back

00:01:49.080 against, it's just been such a discussion, such a debate, especially on the right. Like what our

00:01:53.980 role is, if we feel like someone is making a false accusation or is pushing a theory that is just not

00:02:01.400 founded in reality, what is our role as Christians to speak up against that? I think the same thing the

00:02:07.260 apostle Paul did. The apostle Paul spoke up against false teachers and heresies. And it's interesting

00:02:12.780 to me, Allie, that both Jesus and new Testament writers refer to Satan as a murderer, a liar, 0.61

00:02:20.620 slanderer, and accuser. We had a murder. And then what did we have that followed it? Lies, accusations, 0.50

00:02:27.580 and slander. This is, this is spiritual warfare. Right. And right now I'm, I don't know her motives,

00:02:35.300 but Candace Owens is on the wrong side of this because she's slandering people. She's accusing 1.00

00:02:40.020 people. She's lying. She said, Oh, if Erica asked me to stop, I'll stop. She had to stop. She's still 0.94

00:02:45.440 doing it. So I think what we need to do is as we're doing, and I don't know if you saw Ben Shapiro here

00:02:53.080 the other night, but he was very clear to call out that this is wrong. And he's not even a Christian. 0.98

00:02:58.180 He's just saying we have to deal in truth here. And when we're accusing people of murder, you better

00:03:06.000 have some really good evidence if you're going to do that. And she doesn't. Yeah. So I guess that's your

00:03:09.940 answer to those who say, well, she's the only one asking questions. This is how investigations go.

00:03:15.500 We have to pursue every lead, make sure every stone is turned over. What do you say to people who say that?

00:03:22.860 I will say you can ask questions, but not the complex question. The complex question is something

00:03:28.440 like you ask a man, when did you stop beating your wife? There's an assumption behind the question.

00:03:34.140 Oh, he's a wife beater, right? This is appears to be what Candace is often doing. Why did Mikey turn

00:03:40.020 away immediately and get on his phone? Oh, he must be up to something bad. No, he was doing exactly what

00:03:46.840 Charlie told him to do. And you have had some very eloquent podcasts on this. You've talked about

00:03:52.620 the right way to deal with this. And I think people ought to look into that. And I also want

00:03:57.780 to mention for people that don't know, I have a friend, Jay Warner Wallace, a cold case homicide

00:04:02.460 detective. I had him on my podcast twice to talk about this. He points out that the prosecution is

00:04:09.160 not going to reveal the evidence that they have or even what they're doing, because if they do,

00:04:13.700 they're going to jeopardize the case. Why are they going to jeopardize the case? If they say,

00:04:18.000 for example, they're looking into a second shooter, they don't know if somebody comes forward

00:04:22.480 and says, Oh, I saw the second shooter, whether that guy really saw the second shooter, or he is

00:04:26.520 just trying to make a name for himself, right? Or if they say, we have witness X. They don't want

00:04:33.360 to tell you they have witness X, because what is the media going to do and the defense going to do?

00:04:37.340 They're going to go after witness X. In fact, I think this happened in the OJ Simpson trial,

00:04:41.560 if I'm not mistaken. There was a woman who saw OJ leaving the scene. And the prosecution made it

00:04:48.900 known that she was a witness. She wound up selling her story to a media outlet. And then she was

00:04:57.160 invalid as a witness because she had been bought off, they say. So the prosecution is not going to

00:05:03.580 tell you what they're doing. I know they're checking into conspiracy theories. Why? Because

00:05:06.560 I was the subject of one of them, the guy in the white hat, the stupid white hat theory you heard 1.00

00:05:11.300 about. I was signaling the shooter. They called me on that. The FBI said, were you signaling the 1.00

00:05:15.860 shooter? I said, yeah, I was telling him to steal second base. Like, are you crazy? It makes no

00:05:21.820 sense. You don't need to signal anyone. The guy knows who Charlie Kirk is. He's the guy under the

00:05:27.200 tent with the microphone. It's ridiculous. But people believe that. But it does go to show that, 0.98

00:05:30.760 because a lot of people have said, why is it the FBI doing this? Why aren't they asking this person?

00:05:34.680 I don't think that we are privy to all of the things that the authorities are doing. Not saying that we

00:05:38.920 should blindly trust any government institution or any institution at all. But what you're saying is you did get

00:05:44.640 called, even though it's a conspiracy theory, they did call you. Yes. And by the way, the FBI is not

00:05:49.140 the lead. The Utah police are. Now, I would be more skeptical if this, if the Biden DOJ was in charge

00:05:55.920 and we were in, say, California and we had a liberal DA, I would be even more skeptical. But we're in

00:06:00.460 red Utah. There's a Republican there. And of course, Dan Bongino, who's now left, but the Cash Patel,

00:06:07.740 they're all friends of Charlie. So I don't think they're going to fudge anything. And all this is going

00:06:14.500 to come out at trial anyway. So we have to wait for the trial. Not that we can't ask questions,

00:06:18.840 but the questions are not going to be answered by the prosecution now because they'll taint the jury.

00:06:24.660 They'll jeopardize their case. They have to be very methodical and hold their cards close to the

00:06:29.160 vest. And anybody that's done a prosecution, particularly a murder trial, will tell you

00:06:32.840 this is the way they do it.

00:06:39.180 Okay. If you are watching this, I'm recording these ads remotely from my mom's office. And in here,

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00:07:32.800 Are you surprised at how divided we have become over Israel?

00:07:38.520 It is a little odd, but let me just say that Jew hatred is not a conservative value.

00:07:43.280 So why would we want to be conserving Jew hatred to begin with? If you hate Jews, 0.95

00:07:47.840 I don't consider yourself a conservative. I wouldn't consider yourself a conservative because 0.83

00:07:52.740 you're not conserving what is good, right, and true. So I don't know why, other than this is more

00:07:57.860 spiritual warfare. We're getting people in saying, oh, I voted for Trump, but I hate Jews or I hate 0.97

00:08:03.200 Israel. So what do you say to the people who say, well, I don't hate Jews. I don't hate Israel. 0.80

00:08:08.220 I just think that we're taking too much money from AIPAC and I just want to criticize Israel. 1.00

00:08:13.360 It's not Jew hatred. That's fine. You can criticize Israel, but I always ask people who say that,

00:08:18.580 have you read the Hamas charter? And they always say no, except I had one guy today that proved me 0.98

00:08:23.380 wrong, said yes. Tell us what it is. The Hamas charter basically says that the only way forward 0.93

00:08:29.720 is to kill Jews. Jihad is the only way. And they say in there that all these conferences to have a 1.00

00:08:36.240 two-state solution are a waste of time because they don't want a two-state solution. They want a one-state

00:08:41.340 solution. From the river to the sea means all the Jews are dead. We get the land. Right. And the two-state 1.00

00:08:47.420 solution really was set up by Winston Churchill way back after World War I. It's the country of

00:08:52.900 Jordan. But Jordan does not want the Palestinians because many of them are jihadists. Egypt doesn't 1.00

00:08:58.200 want them either. They're jihadists. So if their own people don't want them, I have a question. Why 0.83

00:09:04.460 would Israel want them? Right. Right. Also, this is not many people really think about this very often,

00:09:12.840 but people will always say, well, we can't bless Israel because they're apostate. You hear this all 0.99

00:09:19.180 the time, right? Well, bless doesn't mean you agree with people on everything. Bless means you tell

00:09:24.920 them where they're wrong. As the proverb says, watch the kisses of an enemy, but the wounds of a friend

00:09:32.240 are good. We don't rubber stamp everything Israel does. And newsflash, the entire Old Testament 0.64

00:09:40.940 Israel was apostate. Every king was a bad king. There was only a couple on the southern kingdom

00:09:47.180 that were good. They're all apostate. God will deal with them. We're supposed to look out for 1.00

00:09:52.480 the Jews and Israel, but that doesn't mean we have to agree with them on everything.

00:09:56.740 And of course, we want all people to be saved through Christ. Of course. And so we share the

00:10:00.480 gospel with everyone. Okay. This is the dividing issue, though, on the right and even among some

00:10:07.220 Christians. So going forward, what does it look like? Do we find consensus on the issue? Are we

00:10:12.900 trying to change people's minds? Do we kind of push it to the side? Is non-fundamental? What do you

00:10:17.540 think it looks like? You mean Israel? Yes. I think we just speak the truth and live the results to God.

00:10:22.240 We're not going to bow down and say that Israel isn't a friend of the U.S. It generally is a friend

00:10:29.180 of the U.S. And think about this. Israel has a land mass that is about 700. Let me put it another

00:10:37.720 way. The Muslim countries around Israel, Turkey, Syria, Lebanon, Jordan, Saudi Arabia, and Egypt

00:10:44.440 have a land mass 700 times the size of Israel. And Israel is supposed to give up land? Right.

00:10:50.840 Hello? Why? I don't understand. It has nothing to do with fairness. Yeah.

00:10:55.820 So Hamas wants all Jews dead. And how can you side with them? You can't. Doesn't mean everything 0.99

00:11:02.940 Israel does is correct. We have to give them wounds of a friend when they do wrong. But to say, 1.00

00:11:10.520 you know, who are the good guys and bad guys in this? I mean, can you imagine, Ali, if a cartel in

00:11:16.260 Mexico, and Charlie and I were talking about this the day before he was murdered, if a cartel in Mexico

00:11:21.280 had in their charter somewhere that they wanted to kill all Americans, they came across the border, 0.98

00:11:26.620 they proportionally killed 30,000 Americans, they took another 30,000 and dragged them across the 0.98

00:11:31.760 border. Would any American have any mystery about who the good guys and bad guys were? What would we

00:11:37.640 do? We would take out that cartel, we would rescue the hostages, and then we'd have a parade how good we

00:11:43.880 were to kill the evil bad guys. And yet, somehow when it comes to Israel, we lose our minds. I think 0.98

00:11:49.580 it's demonic. Yeah. Wow. It's so interesting and very disturbing. Yes. The division that it's caused

00:11:55.520 and very surprising to me, but you've given a lot of clarity to it. Can you just leave us with

00:12:00.220 a message of hope? What's the most hopeful thing you can think of before Christmas? That we're saved

00:12:04.400 by grace, not by works, that Jesus came into the world to take our punishment upon himself. And by

00:12:12.020 trusting in him, we're not only forgiven, we're given his righteousness. And Christianity is the answer 0.97

00:12:18.900 to the problem of evil. If we had never sinned, there'd be no reason for Jesus to come to earth.

00:12:23.420 But because of our sin, he came to earth. And by trusting in him, we are forgiven. That's the real

00:12:28.380 message of Christmas. Amen. Amen to that. Amen. Thank you so much, Frank. I appreciate it. Thank you.

00:12:33.720 Watch Relatable with the great Allie Beth Stuckey, ladies and gentlemen. Thank you.

00:12:39.340 Okay. I tried out a new slow cooker over the weekend and I loved it. It's amazing, but this is

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00:13:47.800 Lucas, thanks so much for taking the time to join us.

00:13:50.300 Hey, thanks for having me on here. It's great to be with you.

00:13:52.520 Okay, I'm going to put you on the spot.

00:13:53.920 Let's do it.

00:13:54.400 You just told me off camera that you and your wife are about to celebrate 25 years

00:14:00.080 of marriage. Does he look like he could be married for 25 years? I know. I didn't think

00:14:04.660 so either. Okay, what is your, what's your top advice that you give couples?

00:14:09.700 Jeez. You know what? I think that you really have to have a foundation in just what I would say,

00:14:16.260 the gospel. If you don't understand that you by yourself are completely depraved and you have

00:14:22.500 no righteousness of your own, when you get that and you talk about that, it allows you to have

00:14:27.740 conversations to say, this is how I'm feeling. It might not be the truth, but it's how I'm feeling.

00:14:32.200 Can you help me sort through this rather than just making accusations and these sort of things?

00:14:36.160 So we've really focused on communication, obviously putting the Lord first. We've had

00:14:39.440 some great mentors along the way too that made a big difference in our lives.

00:14:42.260 Yeah. I think mentorship is a big one. Yeah.

00:14:44.320 And it's something that I think is lost among a lot of young Christians today. Young Christians are

00:14:48.640 too scared to ask. Older Christians are maybe too scared to ask and say, hey, I want to give you

00:14:54.340 advice. So there does seem to be a gap going on in the church.

00:14:58.180 I think that, you know, with mentors, I always tell people that there's something that you have

00:15:02.100 to seek out. If you want mentor, you don't wait for the mentor to come to you and say,

00:15:06.280 hey, I'd like to mentor you. You have to be willing to. And most people, you know, like in our space,

00:15:10.780 if somebody comes to us and they're genuine and they're normal, you know, and they say, hey,

00:15:15.960 I'm working on this. I'd love to buy you a cup of coffee and maybe pick your brain for a little bit.

00:15:20.520 Like you're honored by that. Like if you can make time for that,

00:15:22.560 like you would totally say yes to it. And I think that when you're in proximity to people,

00:15:26.160 you're not trying to force it. You're not just interrupting people at dinner to see if they're

00:15:28.920 going to mentor you, but you know, you're willing to build real relationship with them and take the

00:15:33.060 time. Like it's, it's an honor to do that. And so I always encourage young people to like,

00:15:37.100 look for that. I always try to have people I'm mentoring as well as people that are speaking

00:15:40.360 into my life. And the cool thing about my job right now is I get to hang out with some of the

00:15:43.600 biggest pastors around the nation that have, you know, just these wisdom filled guys with all sorts of,

00:15:48.380 you know, experience in ministry that can, that, you know, as much as we're working with them,

00:15:52.120 and TPSA faith, they're also pouring into me and it's, it's, it's a nice perk.

00:15:56.280 Yeah. What's the hardest part of being a pastor?

00:16:00.060 Hardest part of being a pastor. I think that the, uh, you know, Sunday comes every week,

00:16:04.740 you know, it's, it's, it's always, there's always, you know, another, you know, seven days away. And so

00:16:08.700 I think that, um, get keeping your heart at a place to where you feel that, um, you are in tune

00:16:15.900 with the Lord that you can give regular good, um, you know, just, uh, uh, content and, and, you know,

00:16:22.820 sermons to your congregation. And then at times you're just getting pulled in a million directions.

00:16:26.920 And so it's that much more important that you're keeping yourself, like you're making time for your

00:16:30.920 own spirituality. Cause it's easy for like, you're, you're reading to the word to be just write a

00:16:36.140 sermon rather than just like, Lord, I need, I, you and I need some time together right now.

00:16:40.280 And I think that that's one of the bigger challenges when you do this stuff for a living.

00:16:43.640 Yeah. Okay. Let's talk about the challenge that pastors seem to have sometimes in speaking into

00:16:51.240 a cultural moment. They might be scared of dividing their congregation or they're like,

00:16:56.140 am I just being controversial for the sake of being controversial? And they might have a hard time

00:17:00.980 figuring out what is political that I don't need to talk about. And what is actually biblical?

00:17:05.920 How should a pastor be navigating that?

00:17:08.500 Yeah. I think that, you know, in my work as a senior director at TPUSA faith,

00:17:12.760 and I had the honor of working under Charlie Kirk for the past 18 months. And, uh, it was an

00:17:17.220 incredible experience. Um, every day with Charlie felt historic and even more so now we, we talked a

00:17:25.040 lot about the three types of pastors. There's true pastors and there's traitorous pastors. And then

00:17:30.860 there's this middle category of trembling pastors. I think a lot of pastors are in that space where

00:17:35.480 they're ideologically maybe aligned with biblical truth. They want to do the right thing. Um, but

00:17:40.800 there's all the other reasons, you know, I'm afraid of losing my congregation. I'm afraid of,

00:17:44.560 you know, financial laws. I don't know if I feel, um, as versed on these topics to be able to talk.

00:17:50.920 I mean, and let's face it like Marxism, CRT, DEI, like Islam, like these are robust topics that take

00:17:56.440 a lot of time. Like you and I've done a lot of work to like read these things and know these things.

00:18:00.400 And, and the average pastor hasn't done that. They're not learning that stuff at Bible colleges,

00:18:04.300 many of which are woke. And so they're set up for, they're set up for failure really from the

00:18:08.140 beginning. And I think that, you know, I remember one of the things that Charlie said to me is that

00:18:11.660 courage is easy. All you have to do is say yes. You know, you don't have to have a degree on the

00:18:15.060 wall. You don't have to have a bunch of money. You don't have to have good looks. You just have to

00:18:18.020 be willing to say like, here I am, Lord, send me and then walk in it. And, uh, and I think we need

00:18:22.080 more pastors to do that. They're kind of like giddy and heightened in the wine press, hoping the battle's going to go on

00:18:25.960 without them and they don't need to get in the fight. And I think what we're trying to do at TPSA

00:18:29.240 is be that voice coming alongside of them and saying, rise up, you mighty valiant warrior. It's

00:18:33.540 time to get in the fight here.

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00:19:52.080 You know, one subject that you've talked about a lot that I find is really hard for pastors who've

00:19:57.360 got it on abortion. They've got it on marriage and gender. They're strong on those issues. It's the

00:20:02.140 racial social justice stuff, like totally fumbled the ball during 2020, which I know it was difficult.

00:20:09.260 I want to have grace for that, but sounded so much like BLM or the world when it came to race

00:20:15.220 and justice, even though they have it right on everything else. Why is that?

00:20:19.320 You know, I've said a lot of times that I don't, I don't have shame for a pastor that at the start,

00:20:25.960 after George Floyd, in the middle of COVID, everything else is going on. If they put a black 1.00

00:20:30.180 square on Instagram for, you know, six months and assuming that after some point in time,

00:20:35.860 they realized like, oh, wait a minute, I got bamboozled. Like this is actually supporting a

00:20:40.380 Marxist anti-family, anti-God organization. And they went back and repented, but I've not seen

00:20:44.520 one of these guys go back and repent of that and actually acknowledge this, not publicly. Right.

00:20:48.180 And so, you know, that's concerning to me. And again, I think there's an education issue.

00:20:52.040 A lot of people, they don't know the history of liberation theology. They don't know that it's

00:20:55.780 a hybrid between Marxism and, you know, in Christianity, they don't, they, you know, they can't,

00:21:00.520 they don't know about James Cone. They don't know about, you know, this idea of kind of,

00:21:03.820 you know, crucifying the white Jesus, you know, type of language that you see.

00:21:07.400 And so when you don't have a history and you want to, you want to be likable, I mean,

00:21:10.720 being a pastor, oftentimes there's the temptation to feel like a politician.

00:21:14.140 Your job is to gather people is what you think your job is. It's not really your job.

00:21:18.620 Your job is actually to proclaim the full counsel of the word of God,

00:21:20.980 but you think your job is to gather people because that's what feels like success.

00:21:25.120 And so what happens is you want to please people. And especially if you're in a community

00:21:28.520 with a lot of diversity, you're afraid of saying certain things, especially if you're a white guy

00:21:32.880 that looks like me, you've like, I can't say certain things from the stage or talk about certain

00:21:36.820 issues. But when you actually learn about these things, you realize this is not, we're not talking

00:21:40.480 about racism. We're talking actually about Marxism and that there's been a mass deception that has

00:21:44.660 happened and it's worked its way into a lot of congregations, white, black, and all in between.

00:21:49.240 And when you start actually being able to kind of dissect this and pull it apart,

00:21:52.800 I think that the enemy gets exposed and you're able to deal with that. But it's that when you

00:21:57.060 don't know it and you don't, you're not able to kind of walk, you know, or, you know,

00:22:00.380 navigate kind of that language. It's easy just to be like, I'm, I, can I say black, you know,

00:22:06.360 you know, can I say these things? And you just kind of stumble through this and it gets really

00:22:09.820 weird real fast. Yeah, it really does. Charlie loved talking about woke pastors. Every time he

00:22:15.820 would interview me on his show, he would be like, why won't these pastors say anything? And I'm sure

00:22:20.300 y'all had so many conversations. I talked him down from putting billboards over churches a couple

00:22:24.840 of times. He's like, we should get a billboard and put it. And I'm like, maybe not on that highway

00:22:29.380 right there. You know, maybe not. I like the passion behind it. He was, he, and he had a hard

00:22:34.880 time because he was willing to go out there. Obviously we've seen that the full expression

00:22:38.780 that Charlie was willing to put himself in harm's way. The start of this year, we did like a four

00:22:42.560 hour dinner to kick the year off. And it was just me, him and Mikey. And we sat at restaurant outside

00:22:46.520 in Phoenix. And it was, it was one of my most memorable moments with him. It was one of those

00:22:52.760 days where he just, he had all the time in the world to work through every issue. And, you know,

00:22:57.180 one of the things he said to me is he said, Lucas, he goes this year, he's like, I want

00:22:59.980 our theme word for faith to be grit. And he's like, if we're not close enough to people,

00:23:04.680 when we're sharing the gospel with them, or we're going out there for people to punch

00:23:07.840 us, we're probably not close enough. And, you know, and obviously, you know, he lived

00:23:11.580 that and then some, and, and we really took that to heart. We've been doing a lot more content,

00:23:15.540 you know, out there on the street, man on the street. We've been walking up and down

00:23:18.220 the strip in Vegas, talking to people about faith. We're going out to, you know, places

00:23:21.400 where people are and asking the tough questions and really to having to have those dialogues and

00:23:25.840 the, the ask me anything, prove me wrong style events. Uh, and we're going to be doing a lot

00:23:29.840 more of those in this new year. Look, the worst they can do is they can kill us. And that's not 0.64

00:23:33.460 so bad after all, when you're in Christ. And so we're going to keep this going and we don't want

00:23:37.800 Charlie's, you know, life or his death to be in vain. Yeah. He talked a lot about making heaven

00:23:42.700 crowded. And I think you just really saw an acceleration of that desire in the last few months of his life.

00:23:48.160 You worked with him closely, so you know, but even just me watching him, he talked more and

00:23:53.080 more about theology and the gospel and evangelism was just so evident that it was a passion,

00:23:58.500 the passion of his heart. Well, first off, Charlie was a huge fan of yours. He liked having you at

00:24:02.300 virtually every event that we did. Um, and, uh, he was always just a, he loved, I think the, the passion,

00:24:07.640 the grit, the tenacity that you have, uh, willing to kind of go after it in these things. And, you

00:24:12.300 know, he was, uh, he was a champ. He just thought you were a champion and he was a champion of yours.

00:24:16.240 Um, you know, Charlie, I think that over the last, I met him in 2020, there was certainly an evolution

00:24:21.180 where faith became more and more important in his life. And, you know, certainly over the last few

00:24:25.420 years, it is, it, it was evident. It was the foundational layer to everything that he did.

00:24:29.760 And this idea of making heaven crowded, recognizing that, you know, um, it's what it's all about. My,

00:24:34.780 my last, uh, communication with him was about two days before he died and he was coming back from

00:24:40.540 Japan. And I had been, um, giving him some Intel on some of the churches and theology that was

00:24:44.940 happening in Japan and, uh, for a talk that he was doing over there. And he shot me a message back

00:24:50.340 and he said, Lucas, you'll never believe it. I was able to share the gospel with this tremendous

00:24:53.760 group and massive group of Japanese leaders. I think is the way he worded it. And the last thing

00:24:57.920 I said to him was I was so proud of him. And, uh, you know, it was, um, obviously I wish I could

00:25:02.360 talk to him right now. I wish he was still here with us, but we, we ended on such a great note.

00:25:06.480 And the last thing that we talked about was, was really making heaven crowded by sharing the gospel

00:25:10.820 with people, you know, overseas. And so we want to keep that going here in the U S we're

00:25:15.100 launching a new tour. Uh, Eric has already announced it called make heaven crowded. We're going

00:25:19.340 to about 30 cities across the country, hopefully to a city, uh, near all of you that are out here.

00:25:23.640 We're kicking off the first one at Greg Laurie's church in California on January 21st. And, uh,

00:25:29.140 we've got a high, high probability that Erica is going to be there with us myself, big worship

00:25:34.540 band, pastor Greg Laurie, a lot of other speakers will be showing up at these. They're one night

00:25:38.200 only. And then we go on, but we're doing one in, um, uh, in Greg Laurie's. Then we're jumping

00:25:42.100 down to, uh, awaken church there in San Diego as well. So, and more to come as these announcements

00:25:47.020 follow. Amazing. Well, that answers my last question, which was just, what is the vision

00:25:52.240 for turning point faith? Why did Charlie start it? But that's it to make heaven crowded.

00:25:57.240 Yeah. And I'll say this, that, that, you know, look, I, the opportunity to work with Charlie

00:26:00.640 the last 18 months and Charlie always gave me a pretty long leash in my role. I mean,

00:26:04.260 I had a lot of autonomy. Um, and he would just tell me like, Hey, go for it and go big,

00:26:08.240 you know, and we're continuing to do this. We have more resolve than ever. Our team at TPSA

00:26:12.120 faith is so united. We've got some of the best staff in the world and, uh, we are looking

00:26:16.120 to unite the church around primary doctrine and eradicate wokeism from the American church.

00:26:20.260 Amen. Well, I am right there with you, linking arms with y'all, have y'all's back and praying

00:26:25.160 for y'all. Absolutely. Thank you, Lucas. Really? Thank you.

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00:27:26.560 Blake, thanks so much for taking the time to join us.

00:27:28.260 Oh, thank you for having me. Thank you so much.

00:27:29.980 Okay. For those who don't know, can you tell us who you are and what you do?

00:27:33.120 I am a producer on The Charlie Kirk Show. I was very much in the background of Charlie's

00:27:40.940 show. Producer Blake, get me some info if you listened here. Before that, I worked on Tucker

00:27:47.180 Carlson's show at Fox. So I've hovered in the background of a lot of historic individuals

00:27:53.160 on the American right, I would say.

00:27:54.760 But now you've been thrust into the spotlight.

00:27:56.760 Something like that.

00:27:57.980 What has that been like?

00:27:58.280 Certainly very unwillingly, I would say.

00:28:00.400 Right, right. What has that been like?

00:28:02.600 It's been very different. I've been at a lot of turning point events and I think I'd

00:28:06.460 been recognized once. It was at our Detroit event a year ago. Someone wanted a photo of

00:28:10.780 me for some reason. Now it happens more frequently. It does take some getting used to. You really,

00:28:16.180 you do see how it gets exhausting for a lot of people. But Charlie was a good example on that

00:28:21.160 front. Never let him get it down. Never let it get him down. Always very happy to take a photo

00:28:25.660 to smile for people. And we have to imitate that.

00:28:29.260 Okay, so you're obviously a very fact-driven person. That's kind of, I mean, I would hope so.

00:28:34.660 But I mean, that's basically been your role. And so I imagine just with a lot of the controversy

00:28:39.620 that's surrounded Charlie and his death and a lot of the conspiracy theories, obviously,

00:28:44.800 you plan to debunk a lot of the things that Candace was saying. What has that been like for you,

00:28:50.220 even just personally, to feel like people are running with fiction?

00:28:53.840 It's frustrating. It's challenging. It leads to real pain. I think that's why

00:29:02.940 I certainly wanted us to respond to that. It was so painful to see people I knew personally,

00:29:10.580 who I knew had done nothing wrong, both done nothing wrong and never sought the spotlight in

00:29:15.060 any way. Yeah. That they were good employees, good helpers, good friends to Charlie. And entirely

00:29:21.500 because of that, for them to be singled out for incredibly nasty attacks. And there was a comparison

00:29:27.940 that we made when we were making that initial response that so much of what was said and done,

00:29:34.160 it was so similar to what the worst people in Antifa do, where they take this real delight in

00:29:41.040 tormenting people. And I just have to say, for a lot of them, there clearly was not an interest in

00:29:47.960 seeking the truth, as they would say. There clearly was, for some people, an element that

00:29:53.520 they enjoyed hurting people, and they liked to find an excuse to do that. And that's something that's

00:29:59.480 so common on the left. There's a line, I can't remember who said it, but there are a few things

00:30:03.660 more intoxicating than to be told that you can do cruelty to someone, and it's morally righteous to

00:30:09.980 do so. And the left loves to do that, that they'll find their cause that is their justification to

00:30:16.060 victimize and bully and persecute and hurt people. And it's unfortunate to see that come out of this

00:30:23.980 tragedy. And so many good things have come out as well. The revival that we've all seen,

00:30:27.700 the people who's seen all the people come out whose lives were transformed by Charlie,

00:30:33.160 that's the good thing. And that greatly outweighs the bad. But the bad is still there.

00:30:37.460 Yeah. The timing of kind of your announcement that, hey, we're going to start fact checking

00:30:42.940 some of these theories. Some people obviously would have preferred y'all not say anything.

00:30:47.620 And then you've got other people that are like, what took y'all so long? So what was the thinking

00:30:53.060 behind when you made the announcement, okay, we're going to go point by point?

00:30:56.840 I don't want to speak too much to that because it was a private discussion we had inside. And I don't

00:31:02.520 want to say exactly what motivated everything. I just want to acknowledge there were arguments both

00:31:07.520 ways. And that's one reason it happened the way it did, that there was certainly an impulse initially

00:31:13.900 to say, and I said this in the statement, that so much of this is so strange that it really should

00:31:22.420 just be ignored or, and some thought if you give it no oxygen, it will eventually go away.

00:31:28.300 But at that point it had been more than two months and it was not going away. It was only growing in

00:31:34.280 intensity and it was taking on. And I think it was an important factor, I think, for why we did choose

00:31:40.040 to do something that I'll acknowledge is it felt, I think it was damaging a lot of people who were close

00:31:47.560 to Charlie who were being victimized in this way. And it was dispiriting for people to think that

00:31:52.740 they were being left out there and that they were feeling abandoned. And I really thought we had to

00:31:56.820 send the message. These people are not being abandoned. We are not throwing them to the wolves.

00:32:01.920 These people are innocent and we should say that.

00:32:04.840 Right.

00:32:04.940 And I think it was important for people to hear it, hear that, especially people who are just 0.99

00:32:09.280 observing from the outside.

00:32:11.100 Yeah. Obviously, you know, there was a meeting of the minds between Erica and Candace and we don't

00:32:16.300 have to talk about, you know, what went into that conversation because we don't really know, but

00:32:20.380 I certainly was praying for peace. I think we all were because we want to focus on the right things.

00:32:26.780 Moving forward, is the hope just to kind of ignore and fight the fight that, you know, like Charlie

00:32:33.240 charted out or what is the thinking?

00:32:35.180 What we do, that will ultimately be Erica's call. And that dictated a lot of this, that

00:32:39.260 well, she has the absolute authority over turning point and to decide, and as Charlie's widow, to

00:32:45.200 decide how to respond to anything about it. And so that's in her hands. I think you're correct.

00:32:50.700 What we want is we want the focus to be on Charlie's life's work. And Charlie's life's work was not

00:32:57.620 responding to weird theories about him. Charlie's life's work was spiritual revival,

00:33:02.320 American revival, young people revival, successful families, having children, all of those things

00:33:10.120 that he talked about. That's what he wants to focus on. And that's the mission. We remain,

00:33:15.440 we who remain have to be committed to. Yeah. What is it like the moment that you walked into

00:33:21.320 AmFest for the first time, you see these giant pictures of Charlie's face. I imagine it was

00:33:26.600 emotional, but what was going through your mind?

00:33:28.660 It is. It is. Not even Charlie's face. What really stood out to me was that in the hotel

00:33:35.220 we're staying at across the way, they even decorated the wall there. And it's that photo

00:33:38.800 that everyone's seen of Charlie holding his fist up like that. And it does hit you. What always

00:33:45.340 hits me again is just seeing that and it does come to mind. I'm not going to see him in this life

00:33:53.020 again. Yeah. And I have so many of those memories of him in the arena, him in private, him preparing

00:34:00.960 for the show, him traveling. And I'll have those memories, but they will fade. But what will always

00:34:07.520 be there is Charlie as he was, that warrior for the faith, that warrior for America.

00:34:14.280 There's a line I always think of. It's from a World War One poem where it says, they shall

00:34:22.780 not grow old. And that's Charlie. He shall not grow old. We're going to wither. We're going

00:34:27.520 to age. We're going to fade away. Charlie does not fade away. He is always as bright as he

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00:35:47.780 This event just feels significant for the right. And I guess for the country, it just feels like we are

00:35:55.180 entering into a new era, whatever that is, a new political era. Obviously, there's been a lot of

00:36:01.800 disagreements on stage at America Fest, which I think is good. It's certainly entertaining, but it

00:36:07.140 just shows that we're not afraid of disagreement and debate. But do you feel that way that for some

00:36:12.820 reason, it just feels like this is the initiation of a new season for conservatism? And what do you

00:36:18.320 think that looks like for us to come together and build a coalition?

00:36:21.180 I think you're right. I said the other day, Charlie chose the date of this very well,

00:36:26.580 which is almost happenstance. It's obviously around this time because we have so many students.

00:36:30.580 You can't have it in the middle of the school year. You have the summer and you have the Christmas

00:36:35.160 break. And those are the two big opportunities to have something. But it works out well because it's

00:36:40.280 the end of the year. So it's either right after the election, you need to whip people up and remind

00:36:44.700 them, yeah, guys, we have to, the battle continues. Or it's the start of an election year. And this is

00:36:50.560 when you, first of all, that's when you want to have those debates. You don't want the debate to

00:36:53.760 be happening in October with the election two weeks out. It's much better to have it the month

00:36:58.520 after that election when this is when you can hash out the big stuff. For the movement at large,

00:37:04.680 you're correct. I think we're all aware we've had two Donald Trump elections. So we're moving into

00:37:10.400 a post, there will be a post-Trump era of conservatism. And there's going, and also that a lot of the

00:37:18.240 debates that really defined that era, like how do we feel about immigration, for example,

00:37:22.440 those have actually reached towards a resolution. There's a lot of more agreement on that than there

00:37:26.380 was 10 years ago. So there are new issues people disagree on. And those are going to be hashed out.

00:37:32.160 And they're not as, it's not as decided which way they're going to go. You know, a thing that

00:37:38.300 happened, we had our subscribers, our members room, where we've been interviewing people. And we

00:37:44.440 asked them, who do you agree with among the speakers? And for example, we compared Ben and

00:37:49.380 we compared Tucker. And a lot of hands went up for both. I'll just say that it was a pretty equal

00:37:54.400 number. That is a debate that will be hashed out. And we have to put an emphasis as Charlie would,

00:37:59.920 if it's evenly matched, neither side is going to destroy the other. Neither side is going to purge

00:38:05.160 the other. There must be an approach towards synthesis. And that will be challenging. Charlie

00:38:10.000 recognized it was very challenging. But it's work that must be done. Sorry, we have a crazy,

00:38:17.980 crazy fan. We're going to have to call security. We need the DHS people to deport that man. 0.74

00:38:23.440 You know what? I've been thinking the same thing. Jack Posobiec, causing trouble.

00:38:30.040 Posobiec, I don't remember that name signing the Declaration of Independence. Good point. 1.00

00:38:34.380 Yeah. Okay. Anyway, are you surprised? Are you surprised that that is the issue that's divided us?

00:38:44.780 A little. And there's both good and bad aspects to it. It's a little surprising and weird because

00:38:51.620 a bit, let's be frank, a big issue among it, it's how you feel about a different country that is not

00:38:56.780 America and what you want your policy to be. It's a little weird. Now, what I think is the positive

00:39:02.040 about that is that does also mean it's not super duper foundational the way. Well, that's what I

00:39:10.220 think too. But it seems like a lot of people disagree with that. I would agree that it's not

00:39:13.940 foundational. And that's almost, I think, the disagreement. And that's not to downplay that

00:39:18.000 it's very important to many people. It is a very important issue to people. And I understand that and

00:39:23.200 accept it. But it is not, I mean, it's not on the level of how you feel about the First Amendment of

00:39:29.200 the Constitution, how you feel about what it means to be an American. And that gives me optimism that

00:39:36.240 certainly, for example, that you can reach a synthesis. If you're debating something like

00:39:40.860 the First Amendment of the Constitution, I don't think you really can have just, oh, here's a handy

00:39:45.840 synthesis where we'll agree, you know, we'll find a compromise on this. You're naturally much more

00:39:51.300 uncompromising about that. Whereas I do think on this issue, we'll be able to battle towards

00:39:57.040 something that there will be extremists who are not satisfied with anything but total victory. But

00:40:03.300 I think there will be a much larger number of people who can be satisfied with a center position

00:40:09.800 that emerges after some debate. That's what I'm hopeful for.

00:40:13.680 I'm hopeful for that too. Okay, speaking of hope, I want you to give us some hope. You're a history buff,

00:40:17.980 correct? I've been called that.

00:40:19.600 And a lot of times it feels like, okay, this is the worst that it's ever been. It's the most divided

00:40:25.140 that we've ever been as a country or as a party, and we could never get out of this.

00:40:29.400 Is there anything that we can look at, any era that we can look at history that can say,

00:40:33.100 okay, we got out of that?

00:40:34.280 There's a great one. The funny thing is, I think it was a book called Fears of a Setting Sun,

00:40:40.400 but I might be getting that wrong. An amazing thing is, if you read what the founders were writing

00:40:45.100 late in their lives, early 1800s, a lot of them believed, we screwed it up, America is a failure,

00:40:52.960 everything stinks, the revolution was for nothing. You have Jefferson writing this,

00:40:57.080 you have Madison writing this. The founders were blackpilled. They were blackpilled during what we

00:41:01.980 now know was the beginning of a very glorious century for America. And they had reasons to think

00:41:08.280 this. They could look at, for example, the slavery divide and think, there's no way this is ever going

00:41:13.120 to be resolved. And in fact, it was resolved very traumatically. And it just built and it caused

00:41:17.680 so much bad blood, so much conflict. We have political violence in America. In the 1850s,

00:41:23.980 you had Americans butchering each other in Kansas, even before the Civil War. And yet,

00:41:29.680 America went on to have an incredibly triumphant late 19th century, an incredibly triumphant 20th

00:41:36.060 century. It can look very bad in the short term, incredibly bad. And yet, we can misread things.

00:41:42.960 We can miss things. We can overcome things. And I think that's a big lesson you can take away

00:41:49.300 from American history.

00:41:50.940 Okay, last thing. What is the individual's responsibility if we want to enter into a new

00:41:55.740 golden era of truth and triumph?

00:41:58.080 The individual's responsibility, live like Charlie. I think they've got that sign here,

00:42:02.740 we are all Charlie Kirk. That is aspirational. You must make yourself into a Charlie Kirk or

00:42:07.900 Charlotte Kirk. An Erica Kirk. We'll go. A Charlie or an Erica.

00:42:11.020 He said courage is a choice. It's a choice that you make.

00:42:12.900 Courage is a choice. And virtue is a choice. Charlie really believed in that, that this was

00:42:17.420 something you could cultivate every day. And his discipline was tremendous. His personal agency was

00:42:23.460 tremendous. He was a person who you really admired more and more. The more you interacted with

00:42:29.660 him, the more you saw how he functioned. And he really is an example of the sort of hero anyone

00:42:37.820 can be. Like, if you read about Albert Einstein, okay, I could never be Albert Einstein. I'm just

00:42:42.160 not as smart as him. I could never be Michael Jordan. I am not as tall or as good at basketball

00:42:47.380 as him. Even if I practiced 10,000 hours, I would not be remotely as good. But Charlie, so much of what

00:42:53.400 made him good was the sort of thing anyone can do. You can cultivate discipline. You can cultivate

00:42:58.760 virtue. You can cultivate agency. You can't cultivate being six foot five. But most of what

00:43:05.240 made Charlie amazing was this. It was the ability that is perfectly accessible to an ordinary person.

00:43:13.160 And if you look at the way he lived his life, and he literally just wrote a book about a big thing about

00:43:18.760 how he lived his life, if you read that and follow it, I think you will be able to bring about that

00:43:24.060 America that he wanted us to have. Amen. Well, thank you so much, Blake. Thank you very much, Allie.

Relatable with Allie Beth Stuckey - January 19, 2026

Ep 1290 ｜ Why Is Israel Dividing the Right？ Here's the Real Reason ｜ Dr. Frank Turek

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