Ep 1309 ｜ Is Alysa Liu a Designer Baby？
Episode Stats
Words per minute
172.30695
Harmful content
Misogyny
28
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Hate speech
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Summary
Alyssa Liu is an incredible Olympic figure skating champion. But there is something interesting about her origin story, which includes surrogacy. There are some details here that Christians really need to understand and learn something from. Also, a discussion about healthy patriotism. What does it look like to be proud of your country in a way that is actually Christlike? We ll be exploring all of this and much more on today s episode of Relatable.
Transcript
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Alyssa Liu is an incredible Olympic figure skating champion.
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But there's something interesting about her origin story, which includes surrogacy.
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There are some details here that Christians really need to understand and learn something from.
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What does it look like to be proud of your country in a way that is actually Christ-like?
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We'll be exploring all of this and much more on today's episode of Relatable.
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It's brought to you by our friends at Good Ranchers.
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Well, if you want to know what I thought about it and you want to know my coverage and other Blaze host coverage, then you need to go watch that on Blaze TV.
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I had all kinds of things to say about it, but we don't have time for that today.
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We've got other things to get to before I get into all of that.
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But you can leave a review on Apple Podcasts and on Spotify.
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Make sure you're subscribed on all of these platforms.
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Leave us a five-star review wherever you listen and make sure that your friends are listening to Relatable so they can be in the know and so that they don't fall prey to the propaganda that is targeting Christian women on a daily basis.
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And we even have a conference making sure that women are fully equipped with theology, biblical truth.
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You'll hear some cultural issues brought up, certainly, because the Bible covers those topics.
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But this is really a theologically equipping conference for women who want to be clear, who want to be confident, who want to be courageous by the power of the Holy Spirit and because of the truth of God's Word.
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This is a completely unfiltered, no-fluff, gospel-centered Christian women's conference.
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It's called Share the Arrows, and the theme is always courage and clarity.
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We had 7,000 women in Dallas, Texas last year.
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And by the grace of God, it will be another amazing Holy Spirit-filled year this year.
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All right, let's get into the United States of America at the Olympics.
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So I know that most of you have probably been plugged into everything that's going on.
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I'm not going to do a whole recap of all of the gold medals that we won, although it was a lot, and how the U.S. dominated.
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We'll get into that a little bit when we talk about hockey.
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But I want to dig a little bit deeper and look at some of these athletes and some of the lessons that we can learn from their lives, from their origin stories, and even their representation of America on the world stage.
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We'll be talking a little bit about patriotism, how we should think of that from a Christian perspective.
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But I wanted to highlight one particular athlete that I absolutely loved watching and dig into her origin story and talk about why it is relevant that this figure skater, Alyssa Liu, who is incredible, an absolute champion, such a joy to watch, that she was born via surrogate.
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And she and all of her siblings were born via IVF.
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They were gestated with a surrogate, and they were raised by a single father.
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And I think all of that, it highlights something that we really need to look at.
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Now, before I get into all of that, I know that a lot of you are probably thinking, why does it matter?
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I want to talk about the amazing things she accomplished at the Olympics, but we talk about surrogacy and IVF a lot and the ethics of kind of designing children and picking out mothers and gestators from catalogs and the commercialization of children that really can't be glossed over.
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And I just want to take every opportunity for Christian women to be able to look at this issue in the face and kind of grapple with this difficulty of seeing this person made in the image of God, who is obviously incredible, but also realizing that the ethics of surrogacy and IVF, they give us pause as Christians.
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And we have to be able to hold those two things at the same time.
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So, okay, first, let's look at this iconic picture.
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In case you have been living under a rock and you don't know who she is, look how adorable that is.
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This is after she won gold jumping up into the air, which is that even that move alone is more than I could do without breaking my neck.
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I mean, the way that she moves, the way that she dances, a lot of people just talk about the joy, joy, joy.
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And there is a lot of joy, obviously, that's emanating from her when she's dancing, but it's just fun.
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And it's a little sassy and it's very youthful without losing the elegance.
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It's also extremely athletic, the way that she moves.
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And I think that she, not that my opinion when it comes to figure skating really counts because I have zero expertise in this area, but I, of course, believe that she completely deserved that gold medal.
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I'm thankful for these incredible athletes representing the country that I love on the world stage.
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So let's talk a little bit about the goods and the questionable about how Alyssa was raised, who her father was, and how she became this amazing athlete that she is.
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So we'll talk about Arthur Liu and him fleeing from China as a political refugee, but then also why and how he chose to procure so many children via surrogacy and why that matters.
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Okay, let's talk about Arthur Liu because he's been in the media a lot.
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Now, he is the only biological parent that Alyssa knows because Alyssa was born by surrogacy.
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And surrogates to have Alyssa and her four younger siblings.
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And let me just pause just for a second and explain this to those of you who don't know
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So when you purchase a child, and that really is the most accurate way to say that, purchase
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What you are typically doing, especially if you are a man who is not using the eggs of
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his wife, you are purchasing the eggs of one woman.
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And then you are renting the womb of another woman.
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It's actually encouraged that you don't have a kind of pre-existing personal relationship
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many times with these egg donors and these surrogates because it gets very emotionally
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It's really an egg seller to feel any claim over her biological child.
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And you don't want the surrogate, if you are the IP, which is the intended parent, what
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Mr. Liu was, you don't want the surrogate to be able to act upon the physiological and
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emotional, physical bond that she has created with this child that she's been helping grow
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So that is why you separate the two women.
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And that is very often why this is done contractually, like a business deal.
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Now, unfortunately, who is not considered in these purchases, in these transactions, are
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Sometimes there are fertility issues going on there that doesn't justify it.
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But sometimes, as it seems in this case, like he just wanted to become a dad, which is a
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But we as Christians don't believe that any means necessary are justified in satisfying
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The science that is required to make a child indicates the two people that are required
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So the two people needed to make a child are also needed to raise a child.
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And when we intentionally create children to rob them of a mother or a father, we are stealing
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from them something that is necessary for their healthy development.
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An adopted child was not purposely created to take them away from their biological mother.
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That is the next best option in a broken situation.
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And in this case, you have commodified two women.
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And then you have also created a transaction over a child.
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So in every single case, no matter what the reason is, surrogacy, egg and sperm selling
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And then there's also something interesting about how Arthur chose the women who were going
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So he specifically chose white women as these egg sellers.
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I don't say egg donors because these women are making money from selling their eggs for all
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of his children, believing that it would give them, quote, a diverse gene pool and reflect
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his own blend of Chinese and American cultures.
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Like that should just kind of make your skin crawl a little bit, that you're creating these
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I mean, that's really objectifying these little people.
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When the kids were young, Arthur was married to a Chinese woman.
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And this is now his ex-wife, but also she remains their legal guardian and the person the children
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Around the age of eight, Alyssa realized she looked different from her dad and his ex-wife.
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So I will just stop there and say that there is some conflicting wording and reporting around
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On the one hand, it seems like, yes, she is the legal guardian, but she's not interviewed.
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Um, and also she's referred to as his ex-wife and not as their mother.
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So there's something strange going on there, which again, makes sense.
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Arthur has said he doesn't know the identities of, um, the, uh, the egg donors or the egg sellers.
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There are no records available to reveal them, which just, again, points to something that
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we need to understand when it comes to egg selling is that we are purposely cutting children
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off from half of their, um, half of their biological reality.
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And you don't get to know the fullness of your medical history.
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You don't get to know the fullness of your ethnicity.
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You don't get to know the fullness of your origin or your family's origin.
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And I think it's just an innate longing in all of us to know whom we are and from where
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Um, and we are robbing kids of that when we purposely make them for whatever designer purposes
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Um, if we look at how she was raised at 16, Alyssa performed in the 2022 Beijing Winter
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He saw her talent when she was at a young age and then wanted her to shine.
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And so she really probably didn't have, as a lot of these Olympians didn't really have
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like a typical childhood, she worked really, really hard her entire life to get to where
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And he even talks about how much he dedicated into her athleticism and excelling at figure
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A single dad, he had five kids with the help of surrogates.
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Alyssa was his oldest child and her figure skating career became his second full-time job.
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I took her to Japan to learn from the top coaches there.
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How much do you think you spent to help her become the figure skater that she is?
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I would say half a million to a million dollars.
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And that could probably be said by a lot of these Olympic parents.
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They invest a lot of time and energy and money and to their kids.
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I do think that the background there and her origin story is interesting.
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And it's just another opportunity for us to be reminded that, yes, while everyone, no
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matter the circumstances surrounding their conception or surrounding their gestation or
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birth or birth, are made in God's image, we are glad Alyssa is here.
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And we can all celebrate her completely unapologetically while also saying, hey, we have compassion for
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her to be robbed of her biological mom, just as we do all kids.
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Because if we don't, like if we get trapped in the emotional argument surrounding IVF, that
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are you saying you don't want all these people to be here or surrounding surrogacy?
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Are you saying that this person who had cancer shouldn't have the right to have a child?
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Well, the truth is, is that none of us has a right to have a child.
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They're not something that we are entitled to be able to create by any means necessary.
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We honor them as dignified image bearers while still pointing out that there are some serious
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issues with surrogacy specifically when it comes to these particular circumstances, but
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also as a whole with the industry that it has created, which is basically indistinguishable
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And this is especially an issue with China, who has used surrogacy to create these dual
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citizens who are born in America via surrogate.
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They get citizenship because they're born here.
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They go back to China later after they've been sometimes educated in America or they're
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Then they come back to work in America and they're able to do that with dual citizenship.
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This is a part of, I don't even know what you would call it, birth warfare that is happening
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I'm not saying that Alyssa was a part of that, but against the backdrop of what is going on
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globally, it's really important for us to be able to see this with clear eyes.
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So that leads us to the actual trend that's going on specifically in China and why we need
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So we've talked about surrogacy a lot on the show, and we talked about it specifically
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in episode 1296 with Peter Schweitzer, and he has written a lot and researched a lot about
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And we talked about this trend in China of using surrogates to accomplish what we just
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And actually, recently, a Chinese couple, this is according to The New Yorker, I can't
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really pronounce their names, Guo Zhan Wan and Sylvia Zhang, were accused of hoarding
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and mistreating at least 26 children in their mansion in California.
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So this 65-year-old man reportedly wanted to build a large family so that one of his children
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could become president of the United States one day.
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And this couple allegedly set up their own surrogacy agency called Mark Surrogacy to
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make this happen using his sperm and eggs from an anonymous egg seller to create multiple
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pregnancies through multiple surrogates across the country.
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And then a former employee described this man as a wealthy man obsessed with having as
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many kids as possible, like Genghis Khan or something.
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Unlike others who pursue vices, I guess is how he wanted to glamorize it, romanticize it.
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Well, the by any means is the problem there, right?
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Because then it doesn't really matter the welfare of the kids.
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And prioritizing adult desires over child welfare is disorder.
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The couple was arrested in May 2025 on suspicion of child abuse and neglect after a two-month-old
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baby in their care was hospitalized with a traumatic brain injury.
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It is suspected that this baby was shaken or dropped by a nanny.
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So not only outsourcing conception to a lab through anonymous egg sellers, but also outsourcing
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the gestation to non-mothers of the children and then outsourcing the care for the children
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And so, I mean, how many steps do you have to take to avoid the God-ordained function of
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husband and wife creating and protecting children?
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I mean, how many women do you have to pay to make up for the role that one mom fulfills?
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Authorities raided their home in July 2025, removing 21 children, mostly toddlers and infants,
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They took them into protective custody while the couple was released on bond pending an
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Since their release, at least five more babies were born to their surrogates in states like
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So that's a really disturbing thing going on here is that these women are actually giving
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And then these babies are somehow being transferred back to these surrogacy homes in places like
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America is absolutely the wild, wild west when it comes to fertility treatments, so-called
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fertility treatments and surrogacy and IVF embryos have no rights, basically, in the United States.
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But the appearance of people is not how we decide on their dignity or their worth or their value.
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These are human beings that we are discarding like trash, that we are killing via eugenics,
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And discarding embryos that might be diagnosed with something like Down syndrome.
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It is like a hidden massacre that is going on under this sunny guise of just helping people have
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There is this article that I found really interesting.
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Silk Road is a reference to the ancient network of trade routes that connected East Asia and
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the Middle East, Europe, parts of Africa, South Asia, named mostly after the highly valuable
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Chinese silk that flowed west along these paths.
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But it also, it didn't just trade textiles and things like that, but also slaves.
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This was a slave route that traded people, especially young slave girls, so sex slaves
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throughout Europe, throughout the Middle East, throughout Asia on this so-called Silk Road.
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And right now, China is grappling with low fertility rates.
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Yeah, when you have a one-child policy for decades, as they did in the 20th century, when babies in the
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third trimester were birthed and then slaughtered and then thrown into piles, especially if they were
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little girls, like that might cause some unforeseen consequences.
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By the way, population control always causes unforeseen consequences.
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Population having too much, or overpopulation rather, that we hear about from people like Bill Gates.
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But China bought into that, of course, in the 20th century.
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Now they're dealing with the repercussions, and so they're trying to get as many kids as possible.
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And so they have this demand for international surrogacy, and it's not only that they want more children,
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and so they're trying to create as many as possible, but it also makes them a lot of money.
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Especially when Chinese surrogates are paid to have these children, they're given money.
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International surrogacy is giving rise to alternative family structures in China.
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There is a professor, a researcher at the University of Freiburg with a Ph.D. in social anthropology.
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He points out that the general preference for surrogacy as opposed to adoption in China
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is partially explained by the everlasting notion of bloodline.
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What's interesting is that Chinese aspiring parents hoping to start a family via surrogacy,
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according to this article, have no legal local options.
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Surrogacy is strictly prohibited under a law that was passed in China in 2001.
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And earlier I said that China is making money from this, and they are making money from this,
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as well as benefiting from having more children, as well as benefiting from American-Chinese dual
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citizenship that can grant them power and access into America.
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But there are illegal and very discreet services that exist in China that kind of work as travel agencies.
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They're named something different, kind of euphemistic, like a medical assistance facility.
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And you can use them to find you an egg seller and find you a surrogate from different countries
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And they're raking in tens of thousands of dollars.
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So they say that they don't agree with this or they say that surrogacy is illegal.
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But there's no specific structure, actually, to put sanctions on a surrogate mom.
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They're turning a blind eye to this, probably because it's helping them in a lot of ways.
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And so we just need to understand that in the midst of all of this, that there are real children
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Kids are the unconsenting subjects of progressive social experiments.
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And I want us to be able to celebrate someone like Alyssa Liu.
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But I don't want people to read this origin story and say, ah, well, maybe it's OK.
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Like, I don't want us to be blinded by the glitz and the glamour and this story by saying,
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No matter how someone turns out to rob a child purposely, purposely to create them,
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And every surrogacy circumstance actually fuels this worldwide, extremely lucrative scheme
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And actually, Reddit had something to say about this, which I found interesting.
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The Then Before Us executive director, that's Katie Faust's organization, Josh Wood,
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he pointed out this Reddit thread talking about what it's like to be a designer baby.
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So Josh Wood posted a screenshot of a Reddit thread on Axe.
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He said the title of this Reddit post in true unpopular opinion.
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Olympian Alyssa Liu shows us the power of designer babies.
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Her wealthy and intelligent single dad decided he wanted to have children.
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This Redditor says, this is not Josh Wood saying this.
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Usually wealthy people recruit from Stanford and the like.
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They will look at catalogs that only have Ivy League students.
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She's one of the most natural and talented Olympic skaters ever.
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This Redditor says, this is a brilliant idea that almost any woman and wealthy men can emulate.
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Instead of settling for a less than remarkable partner, select a donor with the very best genes
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Again, this is just objectifying children as if children exist to grow up and to fulfill your dreams.
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There is another example of a person on this thread.
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This person on Reddit said, in 2013, I had a fertility clinic reach out to me asking if
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I was willing to be an egg donor for a VIP couple for a large sum of money.
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I was a division one athlete at Berkeley, tall, blonde.
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The family wanted all of these traits for their donors.
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Another Redditor claimed herself to be a designer baby.
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She said, as a designer baby myself, via sperm selling, genes aren't everything, or rather
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The intense pressure my mother put on me to live up to my potential pretty well killed
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whatever potential I might have had to be a star.
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She treated me like an investment, not a child, and it sucked.
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Sure, there are plenty of parents of natural born kids who do the same thing, but I think
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it's more common among parents, this Redditor says, who use sperm and egg donation because
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they know exactly what they paid for and want to feel like they got their money's worth.
00:30:41.540
Do we know that that's what's going on in every single one of these situations?
00:30:45.800
But the thought of designer babies is very brave new world.
00:30:51.160
And it's what happens when we don't see people as God sees them.
00:30:58.400
I mean, all throughout history, all throughout the pagan societies of old, have we measured
00:31:04.020
people's worth by their productivity, by their wealth, by their ability to reason and to
00:31:15.500
I've told this story many times of this book that I read called When Children Became People
00:31:21.340
He talks about pagan Roman Empire, how the logos was the indicator of someone's worth as a
00:31:29.660
person and only the adult free male could have the logos, which was the ability to rationalize
00:31:34.900
And that's why children were objectified under moral justifications, that they were basically
00:31:42.100
on the level of barbarians because they couldn't reason like adult men.
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They were used as objects of sexual pleasure, all because they weren't seen as as valuable
00:32:00.000
as adults because they didn't have the fullness of the logos.
00:32:03.940
And it was Christianity that burst onto the scene and said, no, no, no, that's not how we're
00:32:09.560
We're valuing people's worth by this previously Hebrew concept called, or exclusively Hebrew concept
00:32:20.380
I don't care about your background or your bloodline or any of those things.
00:32:23.900
You are all made in God's image and therefore you all matter.
00:32:26.860
And actually we're going to pay more attention to the vulnerable ones, to the poor, to the
00:32:31.680
women, to the sick, to the children, because that is what our Jesus, the one that we worship
00:32:38.400
And so that was a major disruption in civilization 2000 years ago, and it shaped Western civilization.
00:32:49.400
And it should continue to be our rallying cry today that these children matter.
00:32:54.800
And they matter because they are made in God's image, not because of what they bring to the
00:32:58.720
table and that there is no cost that we can put on a human life.
00:33:02.140
It's the same argument that we made against slavery.
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It's a similar argument to the one that we make against abortion.
00:33:07.980
The people are made in God's image and they all have the same innate worth.
00:33:12.620
How we create them matters, how we gestate them matters, how we raise them matters, how
00:33:17.600
we view them matters, how we talk about them matters.
00:33:20.660
And I just don't want all of that to get lost as we look to the incredible accomplishment
00:33:31.980
100%, but just remember what is going on when it comes to surrogacy in general around the
00:33:39.320
world is something that is very dark and that Christians should not let up on.
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All right, let us shift gears just a little bit in talking about patriotism.
00:33:49.420
But since we're shifting gears, let me just go ahead and pause, tell you about our second
00:33:55.400
I love Alliance Defending Freedom, everything they stand for.
00:33:58.560
They are fighting for Americans' First Amendment rights, especially our freedom of religion
00:34:04.140
and our freedom to not be discriminated against because of our sincere Christian beliefs.
00:34:09.920
They stand up for those who are standing up for their faith and are being unconstitutionally
00:34:16.700
There is a high school junior in North Carolina named Gabby Stout.
00:34:22.280
She wanted to honor his legacy by painting a message on her school's spirit rock.
00:34:25.980
She got permission from the administrators, but then when she wanted to put the message
00:34:32.120
on there, which was the message that represented bravery and her faith, they reversed the policy
00:34:37.680
and they accused her of vandalism, got her in trouble.
00:34:44.060
She was punished for standing up for the biblical values that Charlie spent his life defending
00:34:48.040
and now Alliance Defending Freedom is representing her and her First Amendment rights.
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00:34:53.060
If you want to support Gabby, support ADF, go to joinadf.com slash Allie, see how you can
00:35:08.620
Okay, let's talk about something just a little bit lighter, but also has a serious note to
00:35:14.060
Let us just talk for a second about how amazing that hockey game was between Canada and between
00:35:20.800
So I will just be honest, like I am not really someone who follows hockey and I won't pretend
00:35:29.640
However, I was just excited to see America win because I love this country, no matter who
00:35:40.900
I love seeing us represented in a strong, powerful way on the world stage.
00:35:48.320
I also don't know that much about figure skating or in the summer Olympics, the gymnastics or
00:35:52.380
anything, but I am still excited when our athletes do well.
00:35:56.520
And especially, especially when we beat smug Canada at their own game.
00:36:03.320
Now, Justin Trudeau, just a few months ago, actually about a year ago in 2025, he tweeted,
00:36:08.740
you can't take our country and you can't take our game.
00:36:14.160
And then the White House responded with this about a year later, and that would be a bald
00:36:20.780
eagle trampling on a goose, which is, I even said goose kind of like a goose would talk.
00:36:31.820
So the U.S. won its first gold medal against Canada since 1980.
00:36:35.900
That's a long time, no offense to those of you who were born in 1980, it's a long time
00:36:40.140
ago, a historic breakthrough for Team USA and heartbreaking loss for Canada.
00:36:48.500
And it is like the sixth most popular sport here in America.
00:36:52.440
Hockey player Jack Hughes made the game winning goal in overtime after having his teeth knocked
00:36:57.460
out during the third period of the game, which is so incredibly iconic and hockey-ish and
00:37:21.300
The story of him and his brother and how they were raised to just be excellent and to love
00:37:33.140
Knocked out teeth, draped in the American flag with his fist in the air.
00:37:39.700
I mean, this needs to be on the cover of Time magazine.
00:37:44.300
Put this in every Buffalo Wild Wings in America.
00:37:50.580
Unfortunately, something like this has become political.
00:37:54.660
Like there is one side of the aisle that believes patriotism is something that should be tempered
00:38:01.380
And yes, of course, we shouldn't idolize any president.
00:38:06.120
Our citizenship in America shouldn't supersede our value of our citizenship in heaven.
00:38:13.220
But as I'll explain, it's good to be proud of your country.
00:38:16.260
And it really doesn't matter who's in the White House.
00:38:18.840
Like you are celebrating the values that has made America in its 250 years the freest and
00:38:26.100
the greatest and the most entrepreneurial country in the world.
00:38:31.540
That has championed the cause of human rights in so many ways for the past two and a half
00:38:38.200
Here's the men's hockey team just singing the national anthem with all their hearts.
00:38:42.880
Okay, they're not going to win any Olympic choir contests anytime soon, but that's okay.
00:39:08.920
Trump called them on someone's phone just to congratulate them and to invite them to
00:39:15.460
attend the State of the Union, which was last night.
00:39:21.400
I have seen hockey goalies have slightly worse games than they have.
00:39:27.680
It was unbelievable, and you were all unbelievable, and that team is pretty good you've played.
00:39:34.240
I don't know if that's going to begin anytime soon, right?
00:39:37.020
You know, I tell you what, I just told my people two minutes ago, I didn't know they'd be calling.
00:39:42.460
I said, we're giving the State of the Union speech on Tuesday night.
00:39:46.920
I could send a military plan or something, but if you would like to, it's the coolest night.
00:40:02.800
And in fact, I've seen some things about Jack Hughes, maybe being pro-LGBTQ or liberal.
00:40:09.520
I think Alyssa, you probably has given some progressive opinions, but you know, she draped
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herself in the American flag and said that she was grateful to be there to be competing.
00:40:18.560
These men just seem grateful to be there to be competing, and of course, grateful to win.
00:40:23.140
Like, as a conservative who loves America, that's all I want to see.
00:40:27.460
I don't expect these athletes to agree with me on everything.
00:40:30.660
I'm sure like 1% of them probably agree with me on everything.
00:40:34.760
A lot of them might have voted for Kamala Harris.
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For us, like, we're just different than the left.
00:40:41.300
Yes, of course, I'm going to disagree with them.
00:40:43.020
I might even publicly disagree with them if they're public about that.
00:40:46.060
But I just want you to be grateful to live in an amazing country.
00:40:50.960
And I want you to be unapologetic about that when you are on the world stage.
00:40:54.620
What I really take issue with is people like this saying, oh, you know, I just representing
00:41:06.320
It brings up mixed emotions to represent the U.S. right now, I think it's a little hard.
00:41:12.920
There's obviously a lot going on that I'm not the biggest fan of.
00:41:16.360
I think for me, it's more I'm representing my like friends and family back home, the people
00:41:22.240
I just think if if it aligns with my moral values, I feel like I'm representing it.
00:41:33.520
Like if you are a progressive activist and you're trying to say what ICE is doing is completely
00:41:38.120
unjust and you think America is like, I don't know, Nazi or whatever, say with your chest.
00:41:44.280
Like if you're talking about injustice, being like, uh, I'm not really like a fan of like
00:41:48.940
everything that's going on, that is not persuasive to me.
00:41:56.920
You don't have to agree with all the policies in America like you would not see a conservative
00:42:00.880
standing up there and being like, yeah, I don't know about representing America when
00:42:06.120
It's not that we don't think abortion is a grave evil, the greatest evil that's going
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It is understood that you are representing what you love and are grateful for about your
00:42:19.580
country, the foundational principles, the country that has given you the opportunity
00:42:23.900
to become an incredible athlete and to be unapologetic about that.
00:42:31.120
Like, I don't care really about your political opinions or who you voted for.
00:42:34.800
I just want to see you represent America proudly.
00:42:38.380
But we've got the Huffington Post saying, if waving the American flag or chanting USA
00:42:48.400
The article goes on to say, the cognitive dissonance of rooting for the U.S. sports while
00:42:52.480
hating the U.S. government is so common that it continues to be one of the main topics I
00:43:00.760
So many, so many things wrong with that sentence.
00:43:04.860
If you are in therapy and your biggest problem is that you don't like who's in office and
00:43:10.300
you don't know how you feel about rooting for the United States in the Olympics, wow,
00:43:16.460
we have like we need we might need to go back to an agrarian society for a little bit just
00:43:22.480
so people don't have so much time on their hands.
00:43:24.860
Like, if you have if you are working with a backhoe all day and you are like tilling the
00:43:31.960
soil to this shows you how much I know about farming to like to make your crops grow, OK,
00:43:41.100
then you don't have time to go to a therapist and talk about the cognitive dissonance between
00:43:47.040
chanting USA when the hockey team wins and not liking Donald Trump.
00:43:52.460
We've just gotten too luxurious and too free here.
00:43:58.160
They go on to say you can hold more than one truth at the same time.
00:44:03.540
You can admire the discipline and sacrifice of the athletes.
00:44:05.660
You can strongly disagree with government policy.
00:44:07.260
You can feel both pride and disgust without needing to collapse that into one correct feeling.
00:44:13.960
And you can actually say it's totally possible to say I love America so much.
00:44:21.800
I don't agree with all of the policies, but when it comes to progressives, there is like
00:44:28.560
And I think a lot of progressives think that patriotism is MAGA-coded, and so it makes them
00:44:35.500
I'm not saying all progressives, but typically when you see an American flag waving in front
00:44:40.780
of someone's house, like you know that that person is conservative, it should not be that
00:44:46.680
In fact, I can really respect someone who is progressive, but it's like, yeah, I think we should
00:44:53.260
And so, of course, I believe in getting crime down.
00:44:58.340
You can't love our country and not believe that we have a right to sovereignty.
00:45:02.280
Of course, I believe in ensuring that our country is economically prosperous.
00:45:08.100
Of course, I believe in the Constitution and the founding documents.
00:45:11.140
But we just disagree on some of the policies of how to protect those things.
00:45:17.600
We have very fundamental differences, moral differences when it comes to how we see the
00:45:22.920
world and how we see truth and morality in the Constitution, and that makes it really
00:45:28.600
We should be able to completely unite over, yeah, America is awesome and we love to see
00:45:33.660
Unfortunately, I don't know that we can really agree with that across the aisle right now
00:45:41.260
Now, I just wanted to end on a note about patriotism in general because I get this question
00:45:48.860
How do we balance loving our country, being patriotic, pledging allegiance to the flag,
00:45:54.800
and then also making sure that our citizenship is truly in heaven and honoring that first?
00:45:59.820
So we'll just end on some quick thoughts on that in just a second.
00:46:02.720
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Okay, where I go when I think about patriotism, which you could define in a variety of ways,
00:47:27.100
I see it as pride, not in the unhealthy and sinful sense of, oh, Americans are innately
00:47:35.680
We have a higher innate value than others, or we have the right to do whatever we want
00:47:42.880
It's not any pride in that I can own personally any good part of America, but just grateful
00:47:50.260
and just acknowledging what an incredible blessing and privilege it is to have been born here
00:47:56.720
and to have access to human rights and to have access to due process and all of these amazing
00:48:05.440
And as we're raising children and we're talking to them about how the world works and even watching
00:48:10.820
the Olympics, actually, our oldest has a lot of questions.
00:48:24.280
And when you're teaching your children this, you're like, you just want them to know how
00:48:28.920
incredibly blessed and grateful they should be to be born in America because so many people
00:48:39.160
It's not just so we can be proud and patriotic.
00:48:41.420
It's so that we can glorify God, so we can help other people, so we can share the gospel.
00:48:46.680
You know, Charlie Kirk, and I don't know if he originated this saying, but he always
00:48:50.160
used to say, like, the most important thing is to share the gospel.
00:48:53.900
And the second most important thing is to ensure that we have the freedom to share the gospel.
00:48:57.540
And the gospel can flourish no matter where it is, whether you have the First Amendment
00:49:02.440
right to free speech or not, because that's just the power of the Holy Spirit.
00:49:06.980
The gates of hell will not prevail against the church.
00:49:09.100
But how incredible that for centuries we have been able to send out missionaries to foreign
00:49:14.280
lands because of the theological training that flourishes here because of freedom, because
00:49:23.480
Most people know Jeremiah 29, 11, for I know the plans I have for you.
00:49:27.620
But a few verses earlier, it says, but seek the welfare of the city where I have sent you
00:49:33.320
This is God speaking to his people who are in exile in Babylon.
00:49:37.080
And pray to the Lord on its behalf, or this is God through the prophet Jeremiah, for in
00:49:45.740
So I love that verse that God has providentially placed us specifically as Christians, because
00:49:55.520
To seek the welfare of the city that we are placed in.
00:49:59.160
So when people say, politics don't matter, I don't want to involve myself.
00:50:04.480
That is an incredible privilege that you have to not care and that your life is still pretty
00:50:09.300
great without you even knowing what's going on in your government.
00:50:12.560
That is because of the sacrifice and the blood and sweat and toil that has gone into creating
00:50:19.460
a constitutional republic where you can feel safe and you can make money and you can have
00:50:25.080
rights even if you have no clue what's going on.
00:50:28.100
I'm saying don't take that for granted because it's not a given.
00:50:32.360
I think people think that human rights are a given, that freedom is just a given.
00:50:36.200
No, that is specifically a Christian politic that has been interwoven in America for 250
00:50:44.900
Not perfectly, but better than any other country that exists on earth today.
00:50:49.260
And it is because of the courage and the clarity and the persistence and the involvement of
00:50:54.300
Christians in the political world that has said, oh, no, no, no.
00:51:00.060
We're going to honor what God says about human rights and human dignity.
00:51:03.360
It's been Christians pushing for that in every way possible in America and abroad that has
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changed the culture, changed in a good way how the world has seen people.
00:51:14.880
Psalm 33, 12, blessed is the nation whose God is the Lord, the people whom he has chosen
00:51:21.300
That's not to say that God has chosen America as his heritage.
00:51:29.440
We are his chosen people and we want our nation to be blessed.
00:51:36.580
And if God is the creator of the heavens and the earth, then he is the authority over all
00:51:40.660
He says what is and what isn't, what's right and what's wrong, what's good and what's
00:51:43.040
bad, what's true and what's false, what a woman is, what she's not, what a marriage
00:51:48.020
And if we believe all of that, none of those beliefs can be compartmentalized in our private
00:51:52.540
They have implications in the public and the professional and the political as well.
00:51:56.480
So 1 Timothy 2, 1 through 2, first of all, then I urge that supplications, prayers, intercessions
00:52:02.660
and thanksgivings be made for all people, for kings and all who are in high positions,
00:52:06.700
that we may lead a peaceful and quiet life, godly and dignified in every way.
00:52:12.040
When kings, when rulers are godly, we get to lead a peaceful and a quiet life, dignified
00:52:20.220
Now, that is a dictate for all Christians, no matter where they live, no matter what the
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government looks like, but that is what we hope for as Christians.
00:52:30.140
So that is one form of patriotism that Christians want to represent.
00:52:33.780
It's praying for our leaders, no matter if it's a Republican or a Democrat.
00:52:37.780
And yes, I believe being grateful for and in a healthy sense, proud of the country in which
00:52:47.200
You're not placed here arbitrarily or by accident because we know God doesn't do that.
00:52:51.360
St. Thomas Aquinas, are you happy to all of my wonderful Catholic listeners out there?
00:52:59.520
And he said this, the reverence given to our country includes homage to all our fellow citizens
00:53:07.680
I think some people forget that your fellow citizens are also your neighbors, okay?
00:53:14.540
It's not just the poor illegal migrant from Guatemala that is your neighbor.
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And how we treat them matters and the policy that references them and that acknowledges their
00:53:36.000
You don't hate the people outside of your family, but you lock your door at night to protect
00:53:41.640
the people inside your home, to protect your family.
00:53:45.520
You don't hate other families, but you don't love them in the same way that you love your
00:53:49.900
You don't open your door to the neighborhood because you know that while not all of your
00:53:54.940
neighbors are criminals, it could be possible that one would be.
00:53:58.260
And it wouldn't be loving to invite strangers into your home and say, take our food, take our
00:54:05.440
Sorry, kids, you're going to have to figure it out.
00:54:12.960
And God, being a God of order, has created these spheres for our loves, for our attention.
00:54:31.420
That is an establishment of order for our good.
00:54:34.140
And it is okay for us to have an order and a priority of loves that focuses on those in
00:54:41.480
our lives, those in our nation, and their welfare.
00:54:45.900
Augustine in City of God talks about this concept as well.
00:54:51.300
But he teaches that Christians as pilgrims, exiles, sojourners in this world, in our earthly
00:54:57.400
dwelling, our earthly city, should actively desire, maintain, and work for peace and order.
00:55:05.380
It protects our neighbors, our most vulnerable neighbors, the poor, especially the child,
00:55:10.980
maintaining the order of the family, of marriage, even civic authority, the maintenance of law
00:55:17.980
that honors the dignity and the right of the human being.
00:55:25.260
So that's why I talk about things like surrogacy.
00:55:31.000
If I just cared about followers and clicks and views, I would not talk about any of that because
00:55:35.420
that probably gives me the most heat of anything that I talk about.
00:55:40.320
The reason why I talk about it is because I believe Christians have a responsibility
00:55:44.480
to know what is going on in the world when it comes to children, when it comes to the
00:55:49.660
most vulnerable people in the world, both in and outside of the womb.
00:55:54.120
And I will take every single opportunity that I have, anything going on in the news, even
00:55:59.900
the Olympics, to make sure that Christians are perfectly clear on why kids matter and how
00:56:08.120
And that is one big reason why we love our country.
00:56:12.900
And we fight to keep our country peaceful and orderly and safe for those vulnerable kids.