Today s guest was called by God to serve meals at strip clubs where she has for the past several years gotten to share the gospel and God s love with women. God is a God of redemption and the testimonies she shares today of how God has saved these women, so many of them victims of trafficking, is just incredible.
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00:26:45.120So it didn't stay just at strip clubs, right?
00:26:48.820Y'all moved on to also serving women in the porn industry.
00:26:52.820But how exactly do you go about that since it's not like a tangible place that you can go and meet these women?
00:26:58.540So in about, you know, I go all the way back to 2010 when the iPhone started coming on to the scene really significantly and online exploitation started and pornography started advancing.
00:27:14.300I started then asking God, will you please provide a way to reach people online?
00:27:20.600But it would be until 2018 when I was in Seattle, where I learned of a software being created by Microsoft called, it was at their Tech Against Trafficking event.
00:27:35.240And they were creating this software that would identify victims online and allow NGOs and nonprofits to text them and reach them.
00:27:46.160Well, I immediately walked straight up to the person in charge and I said, you better sign me up for that.
00:27:53.020And we became their first customer in 2019 and subscribed to this software.
00:27:58.760And in that first year, we reached 18,000 individuals.
00:28:03.340So what the software does is there are hundreds and thousands of websites selling illicit services.
00:28:10.400And the software goes onto those websites and it finds all of the public identification that's on the on that site.
00:28:19.200It then allows us at groups like Scarlet Hope and other nonprofits to identify victims in any zip code in the entire United States and be able to text bulk text those people.
00:28:34.060And it's an incredible technology that said, 2019 to 2022, we were expanding it into nine cities around the U.S.
00:28:45.980And they eventually came to me and said, do you want to acquire the software?
00:28:50.460Well, I didn't even have to say I didn't have to think about it.
00:28:53.100I was like, how much do you want for it?
00:28:54.680You know, God helped us fundraise in three weeks and we were able to raise the money needed to acquire the software.
00:29:06.000And that has opened my eyes to to the connection between exploitation, human trafficking and the pornography industry and and what where that's going.
00:29:19.000And so it is our largest outreach that we have to date.
00:29:22.900We still go to strip clubs and brothels, but we reached about one hundred and twenty thousand victims last year that are being exploited and trafficked.
00:31:10.360And so it was very shortly after that, that our text had come through to her.
00:31:15.900And she she said, I just had gotten to the end of my rope, that there was no hope, that there was nobody to help.
00:31:23.180My family had disowned me, yet no one knew what was going on in my life for so many years.
00:31:28.960And so we were able to get her into a long term treatment facility that would walk alongside her and get her, you know, to a healthy place.
00:31:38.300But that that that right there showed the power of technology, number one, using it for good.
00:31:44.980And that a simple text can really change and save a life.
00:31:51.760I mean, again, just the redemption and how God works.
00:31:54.520I think I've been holding back tears this entire episode.
00:31:57.260You mentioned earlier this commonality of church hurt that a lot of these women in this industry have.
00:32:03.160What is another characteristic that you seem to see in story after story of these women that you interact with?
00:32:11.020You know, and I know we're going to talk about this in a little bit about the movie, but it's this wound of not having a father or, you know, in some cases, a mother.
00:32:23.260However, it was very early on when I was sharing the gospel with one of the women, and she said to me this phrase that I'll really know.
00:32:35.600How could I ever believe in God as a father if my own father raped me and abused me?
00:32:41.780And, you know, to this day, it's still something that's so hard to sit with somebody in.
00:32:51.000But I knew God would never want that for her or would never say, you know, that that was caused by God or any of that.
00:33:01.180And so I sat with her in this for a really long time, and I learned that that same storyline is in many of these women.
00:33:09.940And I think that is another commonality and another thing that our ministry has to really work through and overcome and show them.
00:33:20.060I say it a lot of times, Jesus with skin on so that they can actually start to experience the hands and feet of Jesus first before we are actually preaching at them or telling them, you know, what they should believe, which we never do.
00:33:35.060But we want to show them what God is like as a father and as a good God before we often get to, you know, the misconceptions about God or what they have always believed.
00:33:51.600And it's combating, like with grace, truth, and time, that's our recipe that we believe wholeheartedly in.
00:33:57.800With those three things operating, we've seen God change so many lives.
00:34:05.380And when you say that you're not telling them what to believe, I just want to clarify for people, you are unapologetically sharing the gospel with them, telling them about the truth of God's love and the truth of Christ and all of that.
00:34:18.620But what you mean is that when they come to you about misconceptions about God or whatever false beliefs they have, you're not sitting there and saying, well, let me give you a theology lesson right now.
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00:35:48.620A lot of people also don't realize the trafficking that's happening like right beneath our noses, especially when it comes to these like major events.
00:35:59.540I remember learning a couple of years ago that the Super Bowl is a time when a lot of trafficking, a lot of prostitution happens.
00:36:06.580And it's also events like the World Cup.
00:36:16.200And how are you involved in combating that?
00:36:20.120Any sporting event is going to raise, you know, tourism.
00:36:25.260It's going to raise any industry that's in a city where it's held.
00:36:29.140It just so happens to also raise exploitation and trafficking.
00:36:33.820Why we're focused on the World Cup is there's an estimated 8 million visitors coming from other countries to the United States.
00:36:42.200And, you know, the World Cup is happening in 11 major cities.
00:36:45.860And those cities, all of that will increase.
00:36:49.440And so what we've done in the past is for several Super Bowls now, we have sent teams to do on-the-ground missions where we're reaching people not only digitally and online, but we're also reaching people on the street and in clubs.
00:37:04.200So for the World Cup, we are estimating actually in the month of June to come into contact and reach 30,000 women.
00:37:14.080And could those be a lot of women that are already residing here?
00:37:17.680Absolutely. But all of that will increase, as well as we'll see human trafficking increase during that time.
00:37:25.400So we're focusing right now on Dallas, Atlanta, Miami, and L.A. as the major cities that we'll send teams to and have a response for victims when they need it.
00:37:37.660What exactly does that look like, the response?
00:37:40.200Yeah. So when we do digital outreach, we will reach, for example, the Super Bowl this year, we reached 2,500 people.
00:37:49.460And several victims that were being trafficked reached out to our lines that we were texting them on and told us they needed help.
00:37:57.100So our team went and met them in a secure location, and we were able to provide services to where they were able to get out of that situation.
00:38:07.280And so that's what it looks like on sort of the rescue side of things.
00:38:10.440But it also looks like showing up on the streets where women are working and meeting them with a gift and some food and a rose.
00:38:20.980And that's one of my favorite outreaches we do during sporting events because, believe it or not, there's all sorts of people walking around the stadiums and the different neighborhoods nearby.
00:38:30.300And so that's always a beautiful way to meet people right where they're at.
00:38:35.020What else do you wish people knew, either about trafficking or women who are just working in the sex industry?
00:38:43.820Man, I wish they knew a lot of things, really.
00:38:46.740I'm, you know, there's always, I'm always told, like, those people or them.
00:38:55.280And one of the things that I've always taught is at the foot of the cross, we are all the same.
00:39:02.680All of our sin put Jesus on the cross.
00:39:05.460And so I wish that there were more Christians that had a heart that broke for what God's heart breaks for and saw people in this, you know, saw the people in the industry not for maybe what they do, but who they were supposed to be.
00:39:27.300And that's the message that we share over and over again is that these women are created in God's image, that Christ died for them and rose for them, and that there is hope in his blood.
00:39:39.980And over and over again, women in the sex industry are finding hope in that message.
00:39:46.560What is the connection between pornography and the sex industry strip clubs?
00:39:54.640Because I think a lot of people think of that as separate.
00:39:56.640They even think of it as separate from trafficking.
00:39:58.840But all of those things really work together, right?
00:40:53.940And so I think with the online industry growing at such a rapid rate, and there's – so we've identified 3.2 million victims that are online,
00:41:05.820where there's an estimated 480,000 independent workers in strip clubs.
00:41:10.580So – and there's – quite a few of those are overlapping.
00:41:14.760So it really just all is this ecosystem of evil and darkness that needs to be reached.
00:41:21.180Tell us more about the Asian massage parlors because I had heard of that, but more like, okay, that's like a one-off thing that might happen in a sketchy area in Chinatown or something.
00:41:34.460This is something that's happening like prevalently across the country.
00:41:38.500In Dallas, there's 202 known illicit massage brothels that are actively selling illicit services.
00:41:49.100And that's in, like, comparison to about 33 strip clubs.
00:41:54.200So – and then the online industry in Dallas has about 13,000 unique – what we would call unique victims in it.
00:42:02.040So there's the quick picture of the industry.
00:42:04.700When we have – we're not – you know, we don't have numbers on individuals working in those 202 Asian massage parlors because it changes and fluctuates.
00:42:14.480And – but I work with companies that are actively trying to shut those down and trying to rescue the victims that are in there.
00:42:58.020And so they're not necessarily here by their choice.
00:43:01.840They came to America because they thought they were going to get something better.
00:43:06.260And when that didn't – you know, when they got here and there's all sorts of systems and very corrupt systems that are bringing these people here, they get trapped in these places.
00:43:17.000We also have a ministry that we worked with and we've trained that they've sat with about five different Asian massage parlors.
00:43:24.660And the women that are in there are – in their culture, they believe this is acceptable, that this isn't actually wrong.
00:43:34.140And so when they're given an opportunity, like when we work alongside sting operations to – at illicit massage brothels, they oftentimes don't choose to get help.
00:43:46.160And that's for either fear of their life or because they don't think that inherently they're doing anything wrong or that anything wrong is being done to them.
00:43:55.440Do you ever get pushback from people who say – because when I've talked about the dangers of pornography and, you know, how I think our laws need to change because it's a legal loophole for sex trafficking, all of this.
00:44:09.080It's, well, these women are doing this consensually.
00:44:12.400This is the choice that they're making.
00:44:14.440You don't have to agree with it, but they're not all victims.
00:44:16.940I wonder if you ever get people saying that.
00:44:20.640Maybe they feel empowered by their OnlyFans or by their Instagram account where they're, you know, getting paid money for sex and things like that.
00:44:30.460And I'm sure we're going to get that from this.
00:44:33.420Yes, there are women absolutely in the industry that tell us they are there because it is women's empowerment that they are working in that industry and they're taking back their rights and all of these things.
00:44:48.780But I have talked to tens of thousands of women in 19 years, and even the women that say that have some sort of vulnerability that happened a long time ago, potentially, that led them there or led them to the storyline of their life that believes that that is empowering.
00:45:08.560And again, one of the things I always try to train our volunteers on is we should not be surprised that that is something that they, especially if they're not a Christian, and if they are not a believer, why would they believe anything different than what the world has told them or what they believe is powerful and impactful for them?
00:45:30.220And so we treat those women exactly the same way.
00:45:36.120We show up and time and time again, when they tell me why I like doing this, I don't want anything to do with the church ladies.
00:45:44.980You know, we just stay steady and maintain the truth of the word and tell them that we love them, that the same message we're giving to everybody else is the same message for them.
00:45:56.580And I've actually seen a couple of those women come to know the Lord.
00:46:00.040A woman who has been a very prolific prostitute escort, she's been in the porn industry, has actually given her life to the Lord very recently.
00:46:14.640And her story has every facet of abuse in it, every facet of glamour in it.
00:46:23.640And yet at the end of the day, what she would tell me before she would give her life, before she gave her life to the Lord is I am so empty, I want to die.
00:46:32.800And that's what she would tell me over and over and over again.
00:46:35.580And eventually there was a window of time, something happened in her life that was scary, that caused her to call me one night.
00:46:42.960And she was scared for her life, that if she really did die, where would she go?
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00:48:01.620You talked about, and we talked about just a little bit, just that common thread of fatherlessness that seems to be in almost every woman's story.
00:48:13.680Just wanting that security and affirmation, not getting it from their dad, seeking it elsewhere.
00:48:19.960And of course, you know, single motherhood can bring an increased rate of poverty and desperation and all of that.
00:48:27.000That can also contribute to these women ending up where they are.
00:48:30.000You were part of a documentary that really honed in on fatherlessness and the damage that it causes.
00:48:39.580The documentary is called He Calls Me Daughter.
00:48:42.080And when Rick Altizer, the director, called me about a year and a half ago to be a part of it, I heard his pitch, and I immediately was like, I mean, this is what I hear every single day.
00:48:54.820But ultimately, anything that takes away the ability for us to see God as a father is tied to some sort of wound or father wound, as we've come to know.
00:49:17.100So this documentary explores five different people, one of which came from our ministry named Priscilla.
00:49:24.280It explores their father wounds and what that did and what that led them to do, whether it was overachieving or working really hard to earn favor or approval or validation.
00:49:37.100And then it explores the turn where God met them and they were able to surrender and accept and learn that God was their father, their heavenly father that loved them perfectly.
00:49:51.540And that the process of being a part of this documentary has been really, really beautiful because I've gotten to know more and more women's stories.
00:50:02.520And even several of them have had their eyes open to, you know, I never really could put my finger on it.
00:50:10.660But now that I'm seeing this documentary and I'm more aware of it, then I can name it and I can give it over to the Lord and he can begin to heal that.
00:50:21.320And so that's what the movie is about.
00:50:22.920And it's coming out March 17th and 18th.
00:50:38.320Also, this could be like a gospel sharing opportunity for someone in your life, whether or not they have a background of fatherlessness, pointing to God the father is just a way to reach out to them.
00:50:50.600And how do we talk to someone who says, you know, what you said someone said earlier, well, my dad assaulted me.
00:51:05.080What is the message that we have for this woman?
00:51:07.100I think the message is, what does it look like to surrender to a deeper relationship with Christ?
00:51:20.420Because, and I can use Priscilla, for example, she's in the movie and she's, I've been discipling her for a very long time.
00:51:28.580She said to me, way before this movie ever came into our world, that she would never believe, she could believe in God, but she would not believe in Jesus as a man.
00:51:46.120But one of the things that I said to her, and I would say to any woman listening to this is, what is the enemy trying to keep you from?
00:51:54.240And that day that Priscilla and I had this conversation, I said, what if the Lord has something deeper and better and more intimate for you?
00:52:04.660And the enemy is trying to, to create a barrier there.
00:52:07.940And that like stayed in her heart and her mind.
00:52:10.900And so then when this, you know, her journey is so beautiful, you see it in the movie, but God did reveal himself to her in a, in a closer way.
00:52:19.960And she did eventually come to know Jesus as her savior.
00:52:23.360But she eventually realized that the enemy was trying to really destroy her intimacy with God and, and cause her to still strive and work towards him loving her.
00:52:37.060When God was like, I love you perfectly, just the way that you are.
00:52:58.800Um, I want to round out the conversation with a message specifically to parents, because I'm sure you've learned a lot about the sophisticated methods that are used to present kids and young people with pornography to kind of groom them into being okay with the sexualization and objectification of their bodies.
00:53:20.220But also just like the outright outreach used through Instagram and TikTok and some of these games and things online of these traffickers to exploit young people.
00:53:31.160So just so parents are aware, especially those of teens, um, to know how this works.
00:53:36.520Talk about some of those methods that traffickers use.
00:54:06.040And, um, he portrayed himself as also a 16 year old man.
00:54:11.900And eventually when they turned 18, he had built trust with them so significantly that by the time they were 18 and they could do, make their own choices, he had promised them a modeling gig in Atlanta, Georgia.
00:54:25.800And so, um, her and her friend, and she got another friend to go down to Atlanta, Georgia and go to this big mansion where many women were living.
00:54:35.940And all of a sudden they found themselves in, um, what I call a modeling trafficking scam where they were not modeling.
00:54:44.240That was not at all what it was going to be, but they were going to be for, for weeks and weeks and weeks dropped off at strip clubs at 18 years old, forced to bring a certain amount of money home.
00:54:53.560And when they weren't, when they didn't bring a certain amount of money home, they were beat and they were all sorts of horrible things.
00:55:00.920And so I started, you know, just talking to different organizations and, and trying to figure out this was the method that a lot of traffickers are using.
00:55:43.420And it is something that the traffickers know very well how to spot a young girl or even a young boy that needs attention.
00:55:52.640Maybe a kid, you know, the video games is now one of those areas that traffickers and groomers are getting involved in and they know what to look for.
00:56:05.120Kids that are always online, you know, young boys that are always online.
00:56:35.620Understand what your daughter and or son is dressing like and, you know, what, what signs and signals are they giving to the outside world and really pay attention to those things.
00:56:50.360My opinion is that no one needs to have access to like unfettered, unsupervised access to these smart devices, whether it be a tablet or a TV or a phone, especially not alone, not in their room.
00:57:05.620I don't think before the age of 18 years old and any access to technology that our kids have has to be highly supervised.
00:57:15.280But even then realizing that our kids will outsmart us when it comes to technology, those of us who still consider ourselves and like, oh, no, I'm so savvy.
00:57:24.880But you even see little kids being able to, you know, swipe through a phone so quickly.
00:57:29.180It's so instinctive for them that you could see how they could easily outsmart you.
00:57:34.480And so it is a level of discipline and self-control and effort really on the side of the parent, even more than on the side of the child to make sure that they're protected in that way.
00:57:47.340But that piece that you said even before that and beyond that, I think is so important that first and foremost, they need to know where their worth comes from and get the kind of healthy affirmation that they need so that they are not constantly desperate for something.
00:58:11.740We want to know that we're loved, that we're good enough by someone.
00:58:14.420And having good parents obviously doesn't necessarily prevent every bad thing from happening or every bad choice that your child is going to make.
00:58:23.600But it sounds like what you found is that that is what is missing in the lives of so many of these women who are being exploited.
00:58:31.560And I also just one thing that I just want to like make sure that people understand, because I think a lot of people hear this stuff that you're talking about and they're like, well, that only happens to seedy women in seedy parts of town.
00:58:43.040Like, my kid goes to a private Christian school.
00:58:58.840And even more so today, there is no, like, trafficking does not discriminate.
00:59:05.100I know stories of pastors' daughters that have been trafficked, and it actually started on social media.
00:59:14.860And so if your kid, no matter who you are, if you're uber wealthy or, you know, what you feel like is just a common person that this would never happen to, that's not the truth anymore.
00:59:33.680It does not discriminate wealth or area of town either.
00:59:39.280And I would actually argue that this day and age, unfortunately, the wealthier, the girls coming from upbringings where they're wealthy and they have access to a lot are actually what the pimps and traffickers are looking for.
00:59:57.800And so I just, I really just think I'm with you.
01:00:03.560Like, no kid under 18 really should have access to these things.
01:00:25.080And so if we, if our children are finding that belonging in their home, then they will know the difference when something like that comes their way.
01:00:38.200They won't be seeking it out because it'll already be fulfilled.