00:00:00.000A lot of people think of Mexico as a popular vacation spot. They don't think about it as a hub of persecution of Christianity. And yet, evangelical Christians are being persecuted on a daily basis in Mexico. Yet, the church there is growing. That is the same story in violent countries like Yemen, like Syria, in North Korea, all throughout Africa. Despite intense persecution, the church of Jesus is growing.
00:00:28.000Today, we've got the CEO of Open Doors, Ryan Brown here.
00:00:32.020Open Doors is an organization that resources the persecuted church all around the world,
00:00:36.600and he's going to tell us what is really going on in Mexico, in these other countries.
00:00:40.880How can we be involved in helping these Christians?
00:00:44.780This episode is brought to you by Dwell Bible.0.98
00:00:47.380Dwell Bible is an app that I use to listen to the Bible, to read the Bible.
00:01:14.720Can you tell us a little bit about who you are and what you do?
00:01:16.940Yeah, my name is Ryan Brown, and I have the privilege of overseeing the team with Open Doors US.
00:01:22.400And for those not familiar with Open Doors, we are a ministry that has its roots dating back 70 years, a gentleman by the name of Brother Andrew, who some of the viewers may be familiar with because it was a book written a number of years ago called God Smuggler, which over 10 million copies of that book in print.
00:01:40.360But Brother Andrew was a young man from the Netherlands, and he and his friends at Bible
00:01:48.820College were just perplexed why they couldn't get people to show up to their meetings.
00:01:54.960And meanwhile, in Poland, there was going to be a communist youth rally in which there
00:01:58.840were going to be tens of thousands of young people there.
00:02:01.340So he traveled there to find out why, what was the attraction.
00:02:05.740And during his time there, he went off the itinerary a little bit and met members of
00:02:35.200And I gave birth to a ministry that we're now working in about 80 countries around the globe where Christians are most persecuted and discriminated against because of their faith in Jesus.
00:02:43.780And does he note why people weren't going to his meetings, but the young people were showing up at these communist rallies?
00:02:54.040I don't know that he actually came to a conclusion on that.
00:02:57.240He did come to a conclusion, though, that the church there in Poland, what we commonly refer to as the persecuted church, that they had something to offer.
00:03:08.920Because Jesus talks about a pearl of great price, about people willing to sacrifice for their faith.
00:03:16.300And what he was experiencing, there was not a lot of sacrifice associated with that.
00:03:21.720But yet he saw men and women around the globe who are willing at great cost to follow Jesus Christ.
00:03:28.940And so, you know, there are elements there that, you know, that which costs us little sometimes means little.
00:03:35.780And so, you know, he was inviting people into kinship, into relationship with persecuted believers as a way to even, you know, energize and to spark revival in the European context that he was working in.
00:04:11.220The goal should be to pull people out of persecution that are experiencing that.
00:04:16.540But that's not necessarily how the Bible frames persecution.
00:04:19.980You know, the Bible tells us the persecution will come and is when we come alongside our brothers and sisters that are experiencing persecution, they're not necessarily asking that we take their persecution away.
00:04:30.860They're not asking that they be removed.
00:04:32.460What they are asking is that we not forget them in their persecution, that we stand with them, that they not stand alone.
00:09:55.420And so, especially in some of the Southern areas, there's a gentleman, Pastor Umberto
00:10:02.980that down in these Southern areas that he came to faith as an adult.
00:10:09.280And, you know, this is a community, you know, I think when people hear Mexico, it can be somewhat confusing because we think of it as a predominantly Christian country, a Catholic country.
00:10:21.220Yet, in many of these areas, the flavor of Catholicism isn't Catholicism as yours, I might know it.
00:10:29.720There's a lot of kind of witchcraft, correct?0.66
00:10:32.140Exactly. A lot of, you know, syncretism as far as taking, you know, ancient, in many cases, Mayan beliefs and honestly just kind of sprinkling some Catholicism on top of it.
00:10:44.060And so when he came to faith as an adult, his community, they didn't want that. They rejected that.
00:10:52.960He was, you know, the immediate reaction was they cut off his electricity and they cut off water to his house.
00:11:00.840He continued in his faith, and a few other families came to faith as well.
00:11:06.460His children were told that they couldn't attend the local school.
00:11:11.800He was eventually thrown into prison on two different occasions as he continued to share his faith.
00:11:17.960But what is so amazing to see is that this pastor, coming to faith as an adult,
00:11:28.400You know, he was, he had lived some rough years and, you know, he said his initial response when he received persecution was, you know, if you're coming swinging at me, I'm going to come back swinging at you.
00:11:39.780And, you know, he could have pulled it off.
00:11:44.680But as he began to dive into some of the training and we have curriculum that we walk people through as far as, you know, persecution preparedness and began recognizing the teaching of Jesus that you'll love your enemies.
00:11:58.120pray for those who persecute you. He began to realize that his natural response that he needed
00:12:04.180to keep that in check with his new biblical worldview. And so he began to respond in love,
00:12:09.700trying to reach out to his neighbors. And as the community was continuing to try to amp up,
00:12:15.040ramp up what they were going to do to try to drive him back to his ancestral faith,
00:12:22.060there was a meeting of the community one night. He was on the outside looking in and a gentleman
00:12:27.460and raised his hand and said, you know, that Pastor Humberto and, you know, these several
00:12:32.020others that have come to faith, he said that they're not going to come back. They're not
00:12:36.420going to abandon their newfound faith, but you know what? They're good neighbors. So let's just
00:12:40.740leave them alone. Let's just let them be. And so the community decided to do that. And what happened
00:12:45.980is over a period of time is more and more people began to see, you know, how they were living their
00:12:51.240lives in this community. More and more of these people that had been persecutors began coming to
00:12:56.260faith in Christ. More and more until the point where it became the majority of the community
00:13:02.600was Christian. Now this community, I was down there for, one of the ways that this church has
00:13:10.280funded a lot of the work that they are doing is through a bakery. And they're not just working
00:13:16.460in their own community, but they are actually, they've planted churches in 11 surrounding
00:13:21.740communities that are also antagonistic towards the Christian faith. And so, we were able to
00:13:28.000partner with them, and they've actually launched a commercial-grade bakery now that they're
00:13:31.940utilizing to fund this work that they're doing. But it's amazing to see as men and women respond
00:13:40.440that even with that squeeze of persecution, that they can continue to be a light in the dark.
00:13:46.420Now, you asked about the smash of persecution and what that looks like.
00:13:52.840Yeah. If I could just, if I could say one thing for, you know, my audience here, obviously here in America, we are so incredibly blessed by a constitution and constitutional rights, but we are always, you know, needing attorneys to fight on behalf of Christians like, you know, Jack Phillips and Colorado, so many other Christians, First Liberty, Alliance Defending Freedom.
00:14:13.260They're all people who are trying to defend these freedoms.
00:14:16.120And even though it's not quite the same as somewhere like Mexico or other of these squeeze countries, I do want to encourage my audience, yes, of course, to think about the persecuted Christians abroad, but also to realize we have a concept on the show called sharing the arrows.
00:14:34.420that when you see a fellow Christian who is being condemned, lambasted, excluded for their faith,
00:14:40.320rather than us saying, okay, I'm so glad that's not me. And now I know not to speak out. Now I
00:14:47.360know not to do that. You stand up and you say, you know what? I also believe that. I believe
00:14:52.500the same thing. So whatever arrows you're launching toward me, or whatever arrows you're
00:14:57.560launching toward her, you can launch toward me too. And we encourage prayer, support,
00:15:01.900helping that person's business, and it sounds a lot like on a much smaller and different scale
00:15:06.560in an Americanized way, some of what you're doing. You're not necessarily going down there and,
00:15:12.140as you said, trying to end all persecution. You are sharing the arrows. You're going down there
00:15:16.560and you're saying, you're not alone. And let us give you what you need to persist,
00:15:21.560what you need to stand up. You're not necessarily always removing them from the situation.
00:15:26.020And it sounds like through that, God has given the space that is needed for others to see the
00:15:33.180light of Christ and to become Christian. That is a really unique and different perspective that I
00:15:39.120feel like we don't hear about a lot, but I just wanted to give some more American context for my
00:15:44.640listeners that we do a very small form of that, and it sounds like what y'all are doing on a
00:15:50.000bigger and more tangible scale. Absolutely. Well, I think in that American context,
00:15:54.160I think in many cases as we've engaged in the conversation of persecution, it's whether that be at a macro scale like in Nigeria or even in a smaller case like we might experience here, there can often be a fear associated with that and this idea that, okay, we need to avoid that.
00:16:12.560But what I've heard from so many of our brothers and sisters around the globe is that Christ is present in their persecution.
00:16:21.920You know, they are not alone. Christ is with them. And, you know, His Holy Spirit strengthens them in the midst of those things. And so, you know, I was humbled by a gentleman I met from Sudan a little over a year ago.
00:16:38.640And, you know, this was Sudan, for those not familiar, a country that's just been ripped apart by civil war.
00:16:46.700This is a country, you know, where Christians can very much experience the smash of persecution as well.
00:16:53.300You know, they not only are navigating, you know, the incredible humanitarian crisis that's going on because of multiple years of civil war.
00:17:03.720But there is also an antagonism towards specifically for those of a Muslim background faith that have come to faith in Christ, where people will be ostracized by their communities, by their families.
00:17:19.060And that was the story of this gentleman that I had the opportunity to meet.
00:17:22.680He had come to faith as an adult as well and was immediately cut off by his family, was ostracized by his community as he began to share his newfound faith with his community.
00:17:33.460he was thrown into prison and as he was describing that prison experience to me he said that you know
00:17:39.120at times they kept him in a cell that was so small he didn't even have enough room to lay down at
00:17:44.480night you know to sleep he said other times they kept him in a cell that was completely devoid of
00:17:50.120any light not just natural sunlight but as well any type of light bulb or artificial light was
00:17:55.600complete and utter darkness as they just sought to break his back and you know I had been studying
00:18:02.540the Sermon on the Mount and Jesus says, blessed are the persecuted. And my definition of blessed
00:18:12.140isn't necessarily, that didn't really align the experiences that he was describing as being
00:18:17.760blessed. And so, I asked him about that and he said that, I wouldn't have chosen these experiences,
00:18:24.920but he said, I am thankful for them. He said, I'm thankful because when I was in the darkness of
00:18:31.040that cell, the light of Christ was burning for me brighter in ways than I had ever experienced
00:20:21.880Yeah, it was one of the largest single year jumps that we had seen and certainly in recent history with that report.
00:20:29.840It had been number 18 last year and jumped up to number six.
00:20:35.100And to unpack that, some may be familiar was the Assad regime had been in power for roughly 50 years or so.
00:20:44.260And, you know, it was not easy for Christians in those areas.
00:20:48.720There were certain parts of the country where, you know, Christians, you know, were relatively left alone or things along those lines.
00:20:56.220There was, you know, certainly for those who had been converted, you know, from a Muslim background, there were hostilities and there were difficulties.
00:21:04.720But what happened as the Assad regime was taken out of power in HTS, which is a group that has ties to al-Qaeda and the history there, as they step forward, they have been very, very vocal in proclaiming their intention for religious freedom and liberties and for people to worship according to conscience.
00:21:30.960But in the midst of this regime change, the rule of law was virtually non-existent in some places.
00:21:41.260And yeah, it was very, very difficult.
00:21:43.720And the extremists have definitely seen that as an opportunity to step into the void there.
00:21:48.600And so while some of these historical things have continued to be present, what was the dramatic changer for Syria this last year were the incidences of violence.
00:21:59.660and how that persecution, if we go back a year ago on the World Watch List, no Christians had
00:22:06.200lost their life that we had record of in Syria that year. This year, there were 27 that were
00:22:16.240killed because of their faith. 22 of those were killed in a specific church bombing that was just
00:22:21.620an absolute horrific event. When you take a look at the number of churches that had been
00:22:27.640destroyed or vandalized or damaged. In our previous reporting period, we had recorded
00:22:33.860four that we could substantiate and verify through our on-the-ground presence. This last year,
00:22:40.020there were over 100 of those. And so, while all of these realities that made life difficult and
00:22:45.800where Christians were experiencing persecution continue to be present, we amped on top of that,
00:22:53.340through on top of that, unfortunately, an increase in violence. There is the actual risk that comes
00:22:59.140with violence itself, but that violence has a psychological impact as well on the church where
00:23:07.660people that had lived relatively and safely and suddenly where that relative safety is no longer
00:23:15.380there. It's taken away. That has a huge impact. As a result, we've seen that church in Syria
00:23:23.040Over the recent years, it has gone from hundreds of thousands have left.
00:23:28.560This last year, we estimate there's about 300,000 Christians left remaining in Syria.
00:23:35.980So it has become a remnant, a small church that remains, that has been profoundly impacted by these changes in the regime.
00:23:45.700And I don't know if you can answer this, because I know that the work that is being done by those who work for Open Doors can be very dangerous. And so you have to have, you know, some privacy in that. But is there anything you can tell us just about how you get into these countries? I imagine it is very difficult. There's a lot of peril that you have to overcome. Or is it just communication with the Christians already in Syria? What does that look like?
00:24:14.740Yeah, so it's a great question because we are not a traditional missionary sending organization.
00:24:21.800You know, if people go to our website, they're not going to sign up for the two-week trip to, you know, go visit these places.
00:24:28.960You know, we have a rich history and a rich legacy of relationships.
00:24:33.440We talk about presence ministry on the ground.
00:24:36.140And so, you know, Brother Andrew, you know, our founder lived that out that, you know, he sought to be present with folks.
00:24:44.000And so we come alongside the church that is there with Christians that are there seeking to support them.
00:24:50.080These are men and women that love their countries despite the intense persecution that they experience.
00:24:56.740But these are men and women that are committed and believe that there is a future and that there can be a hope in some of these places that are so opposed to their faith.
00:25:09.340So when we come alongside, it is, you know, coming alongside those deep relationships that have been forged over years, those aren't easy to create.
00:25:23.820You know, many times those with nefarious intent will, you know, position themselves as like a new convert to faith to find out who is who and where people are meeting and those types of things.
00:25:35.660So there are many of these places where we have to exercise extreme caution and extreme care, but it is all birthed out of that fabric and that foundation of relationship and trust that gets built over time.
00:25:55.500I know that y'all are kind of launching a campaign to shine a light on what Christians are enduring in these two countries.
00:26:00.840Yeah, so it's really throughout sub-Saharan Africa that the campaign that we're focused on.
00:26:05.540But Yemen in particular is a country that, you know, unfortunately has been in those top spots in the world watch list for many years.
00:26:14.220This is a country where there has been, you know, civil war and great instability.
00:26:20.100You know, you can only have so many years of that before it starts to create humanitarian crisis.
00:26:25.800And Yemen is in the throes of that right now, that there are, you know, it's a dire humanitarian crisis, what's going on in Yemen.
00:26:37.940The Christians in those contexts, there's an additional vulnerability.
00:26:43.760You know, obviously, they experience the same hardships that all experience because of the, you know, the violence of civil war, because of the lack of food, the lack of water, lack of health care.
00:26:55.800They experience all of those types of things, but in this area where Christianity, in this
00:27:03.220case, I'm talking specifically evangelical Christianity, is not, in essence, kind of
00:29:15.680You know, as far as, I mean, ultimately, you know, when you go to the Bible, it is sin that, you know, I think there is also a dynamic at play here that, you know, the enemy doesn't oppose that which is no threat.0.69
00:29:35.600you know we could end Christian persecution tomorrow if we just said let's lay down this0.68
00:29:41.580this great commission thing to go into all the world and make disciples we're not going to do0.71
00:29:45.360that we're opting out if the church were to take that posture you know it Christian persecution
00:29:53.160would end but the fact that the church is not doing that the fact that church is advancing
00:29:58.140there are many missiologists and many around the world that say that you know in coming years
00:30:05.080There will be, you know, the greatest number of Christians in the world will be in Africa.
00:30:13.420Is it mostly, I'm just curious, is it mostly evangelical Christianity, Catholicism, Orthodox?
00:30:19.260Yeah, so there are all of those threads come into play, but, you know, there's great growth in the evangelical church.
00:30:27.960There are also growth, though, in some of these other areas as well.
00:30:30.920It can be very, very localized as far as where some of that growth is.
00:30:34.760And there are areas where the Orthodox Church is continuing to be a strong and viable presence there.
00:30:41.580But many would say that the center of Christianity in coming years will be Africa rather than North America,
00:30:51.320where it historic over recent years has been or Europe prior to that.
00:30:56.280that the face and the heart of the global church is increasingly in Africa.
00:31:05.060And I don't think that's coincidental as far as why Africa is seeing so much persecution.
00:31:13.060Much of that persecution in this area has taken the form of Islamic extremism.
00:31:19.780And so, again, these aren't necessarily moderate Muslims.0.62
00:31:23.060These are the extremists that are seeking to wipe out Christianity, that the growth of Christianity that's seen as a threat, seeking to see those extremist ideologies become a caliphate type state where that becomes the way of life for all in the land.0.76
00:31:46.640Okay, y'all, I have a challenge for you with this next sponsor.
00:37:12.480Yeah, or in China as well, depending upon, you know, the locations.
00:37:16.420And, you know, the North Korean Christians, one of the things that they had asked in those
00:37:22.340broadcasts was to get information on Christians elsewhere in the globe that were experiencing
00:37:29.380persecution because they wanted to be able to pray for their brothers and sisters.
00:37:33.140You know, they're on top of the world watch list, but yet they wanted to be praying for others around the globe that were experiencing persecution.
00:37:40.640There's also, you know, we are able to operate a series of safe houses, not in North Korea, but across the border where, you know, in China, where, you know, individuals are able to come, be nursed back to, you know, physical health.
00:37:55.960Because as you mentioned, I mean, the reality is for all, for most North Koreans, you know, that there are humanitarian, you know, lack of food and those types of things.
00:38:05.660And so we're able to, you know, nurse people back to physical health, emotional health, and spiritual health.
00:38:11.680um it has again just humbles me to see that there you know men and women that have in essence
00:38:19.820escaped from north korea um have come to these safe houses been nursed back to health and
00:38:26.160their goal and their intent in what they have done is to go back to north korea so they can
00:38:32.800continue to minister rather than you know like i think many of us would say well gosh i'm free
00:38:38.280out of there, thank God, they've instead taken a posture of, how can I be equipped so that I can
00:38:45.920go back and continue to share the gospel with my friends and neighbors? Are there any countries
00:38:52.520that you find surprises people here in America when you say, yeah, this country makes it hard
00:38:57.140to be a Christian? I think all of us, even if we don't know the extent of persecution
00:39:00.640in North Korea or Yemen or Nigeria, it doesn't surprise us because we know communism, secularism0.60
00:39:07.300reigns in north korea then we know islam reigns sub-saharan africa in the middle east but are
00:39:13.880there any nations that you wish people knew to pray for yeah because it's just not as um it's
00:39:21.620not as well known that christians are persecuted there you know i think one of those i mean honestly
00:39:25.960it's mexico even we mentioned a few moments ago i mean how many people vacation in mexico
00:39:30.780or go there. But there are realities of persecution there. I mean, there's a couple of
00:39:38.120drivers of persecution there. One, again, like I mentioned, Pastor Umberto and some of those
00:39:44.780traditional faiths, ancestral type faiths, where those who come to faith in Christ can be seen as
00:39:52.240an opposition, and so there can be hostility there. But one of the very also present realities
00:39:58.900there are with the cartels and organized crime, because, you know, just simply stated that
00:40:04.920the Christian church is bad for business, you know, whether it be, you know, young men that
00:40:10.700are not getting drafted into the ranks of the cartel or, you know, folks that are, you know,1.00
00:40:17.100being pulled away from the vices of, you know, drug use or alcohol that so many of them make
00:40:22.940they're living on, many can see that of these cartel leaders see the Christian church as a
00:40:31.420threat. And so they will look to, at times, strike with violence. I met a pastor, this was in
00:40:40.120northern Mexico, so not far from the border. And he was pastoring congregations where the cartels
00:40:50.540had basically come to town and said, we're setting up shop. You know, pastor and men and women of
00:40:57.360the church, you can step in line, you can grow what we tell you to grow, you can help get things
00:41:02.620from point A to point B as and when we tell you to do them, or you can suffer the consequences.
00:41:08.340And there was a portion of the church there that said, okay, we acquiesce, we fall in line,
00:41:14.200we don't think that we can stand against this. But there was another portion of the church
00:41:17.720They said, no, we won't go along with it. And to make an example of these folks that the cartels came in one night and with guns a blazing and forced people out with the clothes on their back, they corralled them in a school building and held them captive there.
00:41:39.960wouldn't allow them to escape wanted people to see that you know they were being held there
00:41:45.000they're you know men women and child there was one bucket in the middle of the room to
00:41:48.720you know utilizes the bathroom for for a period of 10 days no water provided they had to drink
00:41:54.800water from puddles and and you know that the cartels are saying this is what awaits those that
00:42:00.240that stand against us you know the the pastor those are the realities that they're having to
00:42:07.440to pastor their, their congregations through as far as what does that, what does that look
00:42:32.660And, you know, Christianity there, while, you know, most of us think of, you know, Mexico as a Christian or a Catholic nation, this is an area where, you know, those, you know, faith traditions, Christianity and Catholicism are not heavily represented.
00:42:52.160You know, represent a very small minority of the population.
00:42:57.680And so, you know, there is not a strong presence of the church there to, you know, vocalize
00:43:05.240and to, you know, make the message of the gospel known.
00:45:59.660And despite the opposition that many of them face, we see that.
00:46:04.360We do see a church that is present, a church that is not just seeking to revel in anonymity or just looking to hide in the shadows, but a church that's saying that, no, we're to be a city on a hill.
00:46:24.480We have a light that our darkened communities desperately need.
00:46:28.820Mm-hmm. And, you know, there's a lot of debate that I see about how Christians are treated in
00:46:35.260Israel specifically. Is Israel on the list of nations where Christians are persecuted?
00:46:42.220It is not. Israel doesn't make that top 50. You know, I will say that, you know, and this is
00:46:51.460illustrative of this idea that persecution never exists in a vacuum, that, you know, there will be,
00:46:57.860you know um you know societal factors there'll be geopolitical factors there will be all of
00:47:03.140these different things that that you'll get intertwined into to that reality and you know
00:47:09.360there there is a church um you know the big c church you know in in in these areas that has
00:47:16.560has felt neglected um it is not necessarily been the type of persecution that we've seen in other
00:47:23.880places but there's a church under threat certainly in in these areas that as the hostilities as the
00:47:30.180instabilities um you know without being political there there's you know churches in areas of gaza
00:47:37.800that that are saying you know put your politics aside you know we're christian brothers and
00:47:43.980sisters you know don't don't don't leave us neglected don't don't yeah don't don't ignore us
00:47:49.740And don't just say, well, I'm on this side of this political issue, so I'm going to ignore the plight of Christians in Gaza or in any place, because it really does go beyond that.
00:48:00.780And our affiliation with them transcends our politics.
00:48:04.860I have no doubt that even in the times of the early church in the book of Acts, as they were mobilizing resources from one place to another to support those Christians that were experiencing hunger, that I'm sure that there are all sorts of geopolitical things at play there, too, that the church recognized that those things need to take a second tier of priority.
00:48:27.880Not that those things go away or that we completely ignore them because we do want to be voices of justice in those areas as well.
00:48:34.860but we can't allow those as an excuse to ignore, yeah, the greater issues.
00:48:41.680Totally. I've heard reports that Muslims in the Middle East and Africa,
00:48:46.160there are a number of them, I can't say it's a huge number how much it is, but turning to Christ.
00:48:51.660And obviously we know that the penalties, especially for those who leave Islam and become Christian, are very, very high.0.74
00:48:57.720But is that something that you're seeing, that Muslims are becoming Christian in these places?0.97
00:49:02.120We are. And ironically, it's in some of the areas as well where we hear about much of the extremists, you know, that, and it's, you know, for those who are more moderate Muslims, you know, as they have been confronted with these ideologies of the extremists, they haven't known what to do with that, that they have, they don't believe it.
00:49:31.720They don't believe what the extremists are saying.
00:49:34.780And so for many of them, that's set them on a path of discovery.
00:49:40.140And we are hearing and experiencing many stories in which folks that have, in essence, been disillusioned by the extremist ideologies that they're hearing around them and are coming to faith in Christ because of that.
00:49:57.940You know, there was a gentleman that I met a couple years ago now, and, you know, he was, you know, the son of an imam and, you know, a Muslim ruler.
00:50:11.600And he was being trained to take on mantles of leadership there and was sent to Germany, in essence, as kind of an Islamic missionary to better understand the enemy.
00:50:31.840And as he arrived there and began to engage with some of the Christians, he realized that, you know, that the stories I've been told of who these people are, that they're not true.0.55
00:50:44.560And he began to question everything.0.68
00:50:46.960And, you know, he spiraled downwards into all sorts of drug abuse, alcohol abuse.
00:50:50.840abuse. And, you know, he said he had hit bottom. And one night he was just praying. He said, you
00:50:58.260know, God, if you're even real, you know, show yourself to me. And that night, over a period of
00:51:06.220a couple of nights, he had a dream. And, you know, this was a dream in which he was, you know,
00:51:13.400walking down the streets and there was a shopkeeper that said, hey, come into my shop,
00:51:17.720come into my shop and he came into the shop and the tables were just filled with you know gold
00:51:22.760and jewels and those types of things and the shopkeeper said take these these are for you
00:51:27.080take them and so you know he filled up his bags and in the dream you know he's walking down the
00:51:32.940street you know so thankful that you know he's i'm rich i'm rich i'm rich and and um then his
00:51:38.460roommate woke him up and he was so disappointed to you know be back into his everyday life that
00:51:43.500the next night he had a dream and he was standing in a throne room and there was a gentleman that
00:51:50.340he recognized was the shopkeeper. And in this context, he realized that that person was Jesus.
00:51:56.080And Jesus said, you know, I'm giving you the riches of the kingdom of heaven, you know, come,
00:52:00.960come to me. And, um, you know, at, for those of a Muslim faith that they don't have the same type1.00
00:52:09.040assurance of salvation that we as Christians do, that, you know, they're the only way to guarantee1.00
00:52:14.920your salvation is to die in jihad. And so beyond that, it's really this preponderance of your
00:52:22.160works, you know, as far as, you know, have you earned a right for, you know, eternal glory.
00:52:28.760And, you know, so he, you know, again, he was living a life of brokenness and debauchery at
00:52:35.920the time. And, you know, Jesus said, come to me. He said, I can't, you know, I'm sinful. And he
00:52:43.800said, you know, Jesus said to him, I forgive you. And he said, he looked down upon himself and he
00:52:49.700said, he can't find the words, but he said, it's like his sin was a physical manifestation on his
00:52:56.520body that just started to peel away. And, you know, he had his fresh, clean skin underneath it.
00:53:02.660And so he, the next day he woke up and said, okay, well, I need to start talking to some of these Christians that I've been, you know, trying to learn from in order to, you know, know how I can attack them.0.96
00:53:29.680And because of the prominent position that his family had.
00:53:32.660you know, he came under fire and, you know, there have been fatwas that have been issued
00:53:39.680that basically a calling for his death and execution, not just for him, but for his wife,
00:53:45.940as well as his newborn son. And so, you know, the church is growing in these areas and we are seeing
00:53:54.780that. Last sponsor for the day is Shopify. Okay, if you've got a side hustle, or maybe it's your
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00:54:53.600shopify.com slash Allie. I've heard a lot of stories about Muslims specifically seeing God
00:55:05.700in dreams or seeing Jesus in dreams, which is just interesting. It's not something that we0.98
00:55:10.880talk a lot about in the evangelical world, especially in my Reformed Baptist tradition,
00:55:15.700But the truth is, is that God is going to do what he wants to do, and the means that he chooses to draw his sheep to himself, and God can do anything.
00:55:27.520I do think it's interesting how he seems to manifest himself in certain ways in certain cultures at certain times and in others, but God's going to do what he has to do to make sure that his sheep hear his voice.
00:55:39.960And that's something that I take away from what you're saying is that, gosh, God is so faithful and relentless that there is nothing that can impede his will.
00:55:50.640There's nothing that can stop him from gathering his flock.
00:55:54.820And then also just the common theme that I'm seeing that Christianity is seen as a boil on the back of tyrants.
00:56:01.700We are seen as the obstacle to corruption.
00:56:05.220And we are very inconvenient to bad powers.
00:56:09.960And always have been, from Nero to today.
00:56:35.180And it's, you know, perhaps it's a beautiful irony that, you know, the things that this world would most seek to do to destroy the church, it would most seek, you know, to destroy a faith in Christ.
00:56:50.960You know, Christ, not only is he present in those things, but even those things bend their knee to Christ and his purposes.
00:56:59.100You know, gosh, you know, death itself was sin's crowning achievement, you know, but yet God utilized the death of his son to create atonement for all of us.
00:57:11.800You know, so not even the crowning achievement of sin, you know, even that has to bow its knee before the Lordship of Christ.
00:57:19.300And none of that is true without the resurrection.
00:57:22.540The resurrection is where we find hope in the midst of persecution and martyrdom because if Jesus conquered death and he gives us the authority to do so, then we know that we get to be with him forever and one day every knee will bow and every tongue will confess that Jesus Christ is Lord.
00:57:40.300Tell me just the immediate action step that someone can take.
00:57:43.720They're listening to this and they're like, okay, I want to get involved.
00:57:47.960How can they get involved and open doors?
00:57:49.460Yeah. One of the first things I would point people to right now is we have launched, and this is not just Open Doors that has launched this. This is in response to the pastors on the ground that we have the privilege of working with in Africa.
00:58:06.280One of the things that they vocalized to us a few years ago is that, you know, the persecution
00:58:11.320that we are experiencing, we feel like the world doesn't know.