Seth Gruber is the author of Last Stand, the leader of the organization White Rose Resistance, and he has a powerful call for us as Christians today to understand what our legacy is in fighting against the darkness of this age. As we are staring in the face of infanticide, abortion, sexual depravity, what is our role in all of this spiritually and politically? This is such an encouraging call to action.
00:12:08.540Obviously, you're thinking, OK, Roe v. Wade, your listeners, obviously, OK.
00:12:12.100So now, in one way, that shouldn't surprise us, because there's not a civilization in the history of our recorded species that did not exercise ritualistic child sacrifice in some way, shape or form, which should be like pretty shocking.
00:12:26.200But what makes Roe v. Wade shocking to America?
00:12:30.780Because we're the most powerful child of the Reformation.
00:12:34.100America was birthed by Protestant pastors preaching that resistance to tyranny is obedience
00:12:40.200to God for a century before 1776, where you had to prove your membership at a Protestant
00:12:47.200church before you could appear on the ballot to run for public office in several of our
00:12:52.540So given our Christian founding, yeah, codifying baby killing through all nine months of pregnancy for any reason or no reason at all in all 50 states, that is pretty significant and shocking.0.98
00:13:03.200So, OK, so Moloch, what else happened in 73?0.89
00:13:07.220The Supreme Court reversed their obscenity rules that therefore allowed the widespread and legal distribution of pornography in 1973.
00:13:19.800So pornea. So let's call it Ishtar. What else happened in 73? The Endangered Species Act.
00:13:28.660The same year we declared open season on pre-born babies, we gave more legal protections to sea
00:13:35.560turtles and porpoises, which, by the way, reminds me of a Chesterton prophecy. And I mean,
00:13:40.340culturally prophetic, Ali, not like I don't believe in prophets today. But Chesterton said,
00:13:45.040wherever there is animal worship, there will be human sacrifice.
00:13:49.700Chesterton also wrote nine months before the founding of Planned Parenthood.
00:13:53.720He said, we are not so very far off from even the sacrifice of babies,
00:13:58.520if not to a crocodile, at least to a creed.0.69
00:14:03.600So in 73, you get Moloch, Roe v. Wade, you get Baal, animal worship,0.64
00:14:10.340and you get Ashtoreth, weird sex porneia stuff.0.87
00:14:14.580That should be a little bit of an Old Testament alarm bell for the church in America that maybe we came into something of a demonic trinity, an agreement in 73, that codified total sexual freedom because you don't have total sexual freedom unless you can murder the products of your total sexual freedom.0.99
00:14:38.380So that's why I think America began its 90 to 100 year clock in 73, which means we could be approaching the third and final chapter of Western civilization in this republic as we understand it today.
00:14:53.920That should be a sobering wake up call.
00:14:56.080That's why our festival, my book and our film that's all dedicated to Charlie is called The Last Stand.
00:15:03.140You know, it's making me wonder if Republicans have a hard time, obviously we know where
00:15:09.720Democrats are and all of those things, but have a hard time understanding the truth of
00:15:13.460what you're saying, because I think for so long and for good reason, understandably so
00:15:19.040we've emphasized the importance of liberty and you and I still very much care about the
00:15:22.980constitution and care about liberty and the first amendment.
00:15:25.620But I just wonder if we have said liberty at all costs and we have forgotten that
00:15:32.220liberty that is untethered to virtue, that is untethered to the knowledge of the authority of
00:15:36.920the creator who has given us our rights has really actually been our downfall. And that it's not just
00:15:43.240the Democrats who openly love baby killing and all of the debauchery that you're talking about,
00:15:47.660but also on the other side of things, like we have a political party who is just like, well,
00:15:53.020as long as people are free to do whatever they want, then our republic will survive. But what
00:15:57.000you're telling me is that that's not actually the pattern. It's not democracies and republics
00:16:02.260survive when they allow people as much freedom as possible in every realm of their lives.
00:16:07.760It is the societies that first forget that God is the authority of all things, that he has an
00:16:13.120order that we have to follow and that liberty actually has to flow from that. It can't precede
00:16:17.580that or else everything then gets disjointed and disordered. So like, do you see that? Do you see
00:16:22.780that we also have a challenge as Christians with the Republican Party when it comes to the message
00:16:27.520that you're conveying? Well, so Ali, two years ago, the GOP basically gutted their platform as it came
00:16:36.220to the life issue and to like marriage and sexuality. People forget this. Now, Ali, you know
00:16:41.900this, but like people forget this, how significant that was, that for decades, the Republican Party
00:16:47.180platform. Now, were they actually fighting for some of the things in the platform? I'm about to
00:16:51.660say, OK, we could say probably not, but at least we could hold them accountable based off of the
00:16:56.160language and commitments in their own platform. That's what I'm saying. Great. There was language
00:17:00.620in the GOP platform in regards to the sanctity of life to pre-born babies that called for the 14th
00:17:07.000Amendment protections of babies. Now, we're about to drop a statement, an equal rights protection
00:17:13.100statement at White Rose soon. We probably don't have to unpack all of that right now, Ali, but
00:17:17.580you're a signer. It's going to shock some people, the signers on this. And it's just calling
00:17:21.620the pro-life movement and the Republican Party back to first principles. That was in the platform,
00:17:27.04014th Amendment protections for the pre-born, which also means if they're a person,
00:17:31.660then there's consequences for anyone who intentionally kills what is a person.
00:17:36.280So anyways, we'll have that debate some other time. And I know you've had Bradley Pierce on,
00:17:40.140great brother. But the point is they gutted their language that allowed us to hold them
00:17:45.180accountable on the civilizational issues that matter the most, the babies, the family, sexuality.
00:17:51.520And why did that happen? Because we, the church, have not been engaged, and we've not been holding
00:17:56.960the Republican Party establishment accountable to actually defend and stand for what Christians
00:18:02.940believe, which starts with the family issues. So this concept you're talking about, about0.68
00:18:07.960valuing liberty so much that we end up sacrificing the lives of babies, what you put your finger on
00:18:13.820is profound, Ali. It's quite brilliant. It's the same difference that Alexander Hamilton
00:18:19.900was writing to the Marquis de Lafayette, the Frenchman who was an American hero in helping
00:18:27.160us win the war for independence, when he talks about the difference between the French Revolution
00:18:31.100and the American Revolution. And by the way, the French Revolution is basically a modern reprise
00:18:35.500of the fall of Rome. It's the same issues that you see all over again. And we'll get into some
00:18:39.260of that. But there were Jacobins who were basically thinking, hey, what we're doing in the
00:18:44.120Palais Royale with the Marquis d'Assad in the French Revolution, what we're doing is we're
00:18:48.480just doing what America did in 1776. And Hamilton despised that anyone was comparing the French
00:18:55.140Revolution, which was 76, 86, 96. The French Revolution starts in 89. So like, you know,
00:19:00.640less than 20 years after 1776. And he compared it as the difference between liberty and
00:19:05.800licentiousness. He said, I am glad to acknowledge and believe that there is no real resemblance
00:19:12.640between what was the cause of America and what was the cause of France, and that the difference
00:19:17.200is no less great than the difference between liberty and licentiousness. And that's what
00:19:22.720we've done in the conservative movement and even in the church is we have confused liberty with
00:19:27.000license or with licentiousness so that I lose donors when I speak against big fertility or
00:19:32.300in vitro fertilization because even pro-life Christian thinks that this is somehow a blessing
00:19:36.860of liberty. Next sponsor for the day is Seven Weeks Coffee. I love my morning coffee and I
00:19:47.100love when it's Seven Weeks Coffee because it's so great tasting. It is clean, it's pesticide-free,
00:19:52.340mold-free, all of that really important stuff. But what's more important to me is that every
00:19:56.880sale of 7 Weeks Coffee goes to support pregnancy centers. 10% of every single sale supports these
00:20:02.960pregnancy centers. They've now, because of you, raised well over a million dollars for these
00:20:07.660clinics that are saving baby lives, that are helping these moms, sharing the gospel, helping
00:20:12.460resource these families, just an incredible ministry and partnership that 7 Weeks is forged.
00:20:17.940And so it's just a win all around. Your coffee gets to serve a higher purpose. You get caffeinated.
00:20:22.720you get great tasting coffee. It's just a win all around. Go to sevenweekscoffee.com. You can
00:20:27.780save 15% forever when you subscribe. And then an extra 10% when you use my code Allie, sevenweekscoffee.com,
00:20:34.360code Allie. Let's talk about that a little bit. You talk about this concept of libido
00:20:43.780dominandi. I think that's how you pronounce it. Tell us what that means and how does that tie
00:20:49.660into something like abortion, IVF, sexual degeneracy, all the stuff that we're talking
00:20:53.780about. Oh boy. Okay. So, um, it's, let's open up that can of worms, Allie. I'm glad you asked that.
00:20:59.840Um, Augustine wrote, uh, always unrelatable. Uh, Augustine wrote in the city of God,
00:21:06.920um, a man has as many masters as he has vices. Okay. So what does that mean? I guess that means
00:21:16.200that by promoting vice, the regime promotes slavery, which can then be fashioned into a form
00:21:25.440of political control. That sentence I just said, Ali Beth, is the beating heart of libido dominandi,0.95
00:21:34.460the lust to dominate. Dominion becomes domination when man listens to and accepts the serpent's0.95
00:21:43.480counterfeit kingdom. And the things that we were called to steward, right? Dominion, the dominion
00:21:48.080mandate, which we'll get into, the things we were called to steward become the very things we are
00:21:51.780now enslaved to. And so this is why the apostle Paul writing to Christians in Rome connects the
00:21:57.340original lie to the city of man, right? What does he say? They exchanged the truth about God for a0.51
00:22:03.880lie, Romans 1, which results in worship of or slavery to created things rather than the creator,
00:22:11.780Endangered Species Act. So a wicked man may sit on a throne, but he is controlled by his appetites.
00:22:20.120He is enslaved to his lust, rage, jealousy, greed, sensuality. And so because he cannot master
00:22:27.480himself, he turns his cravings outward, attempting to master others instead. And this is why tyrants
00:22:34.760behave the way they do. I'm convinced of this now, Ali. A man enslaved to vice must project
00:22:40.800his slavery onto the people he governs. He has to resort to domination because he has not learned
00:22:49.120to exercise dominion. And this is so important for Christians to understand. Domination is a1.00
00:22:54.600reflection of your own slavery projected onto others, but dominion is a reflection of your
00:23:01.320own stewardship exercised on behalf of others. So one is the city of man and one is the city of God,
00:23:08.880But in each case, it reveals who or what we really worship because the tyrant must replicate his bondage and others or his authority feels threatened.
00:23:20.560So vice, vice is contagious and tyrants work very hard to spread the infection because they know that a virtuous populace cannot be controlled.
00:23:31.760So they have to corrupt, seduce, blackmail.
00:28:57.560Centuries would pass before Moab could physically conquer Jerusalem.0.99
00:29:01.860But that eventual triumph had already been secured.0.97
00:29:04.540The real victory had one had been won long before, not by might or strategy, but by the sexual and moral collapse engineered at pay or which you cannot defeat militarily.
00:29:16.480You can always corrupt through sexual enticement.0.64
00:29:19.340Maybe that's why the Epstein list will never get released.
00:29:23.640What a fascinating, very disturbing connection, because without even you having to explain all of the parallels you mentioned Epstein, you can just see it.
00:29:31.220You listen to what you're talking about and you're like, oh, yeah, that makes sense.
00:30:23.380CrowdHealth is a refreshing alternative that puts you back in control.
00:30:27.500It's a community of people who come together to help fund each other's medical bills, negotiate
00:30:32.680unfair charges, actually advocate for your family's wellbeing. We use crowd health. We
00:30:37.400really like crowd health. It has been a great option for our family. You get personal care
00:30:42.340advocates, prescription discounts, a huge database to help you find great doctors and the freedom to
00:30:47.260choose any provider, no restrictive networks. Members crowdfund eligible bills with a 99.9%
00:30:53.800success rate. Usually in about seven days together, they have saved over $56 million for their
00:31:00.020customers. It's really incredible. We've enjoyed it a lot. Join today for $99 a month for your
00:31:05.600first three months. Use code Allie at joincrowdhealth.com. That's joincrowdhealth.com
00:31:10.300code Allie. CrowdHealth is not insurance. Opt out, take your power back. Joincrowdhealth.com
00:31:15.480code Allie. Brilliant connection, Allie. Yeah. So what is the best sort of personal example
00:31:27.360of libido dominandi or the lust to dominate for the layperson? Obviously, we can identify that
00:31:34.040when that comes to someone like Epstein or Sean Diddy Combs, right? That's easy.
00:31:38.440But how does that relate to the layperson? The belief that adult desires matter far more
00:31:47.420than the rights of children. That's the lust to dominate. It's the belief that my desires
00:31:54.640or what I have rephrased as my rights, are ultimate. And if you get in the way
00:32:04.580of my desires to curate my version of liberty, then I will crush you.
00:32:13.800And we have to identify that in all of our hearts, don't we, Ali? That's not just an indictment.
00:32:18.880I don't take this, guys, as just like, you know, shaming the gays or or the heterosexual Christian married couple who created 10 embryos and still has six of them frozen on ice.
00:32:29.820We have to identify that in each of our hearts, that when we pursue passion, this is what C.S. Lewis talked about.
00:32:37.320The head rules the belly through the chest.
00:32:38.960So the intellect rules the belly, the appetite through the chest, which is virtue, honor and morality.
00:36:01.340What do you say to the Christian that's like, I hear you.0.99
00:36:04.400and they're totally in alignment that all of those things are evil and christians are called
00:36:08.960to push back against that but who are just demoralized by the political system and who say
00:36:14.280you know what i'm just going to focus on what i can do in my neighborhood share the gospel love
00:36:18.280the people around me i just don't really care about politics anymore there are you know bad
00:36:24.780people on both sides whatever argument people make for political disengagement we say we see
00:36:30.020that among a lot of christians who are just discouraged like what is your charge to them
00:36:34.660like why should they be politically engaged yes locally and statewide but also on a national
00:36:40.680level when it comes to our national policy well ali you're one of the the best voices in explaining
00:36:46.980how these issues are not really political right and by the way guys uh go watch the last stand
00:36:53.320film host a screening at your church ali beth is in the film alongside other warriors the last
00:36:57.860standout film, the last standout film, and you can bring this film to your church. But you're a
00:37:04.060powerful voice. That's why I put you in my film, explaining why, guess what? These issues are
00:37:08.500biblical, theological, Christian issues. And for most of church history, the church understood that
00:37:13.340those issues were our issues, fundamentally our issues. We weren't looking to kings, to tyrants,
00:37:21.220and to overlords to deal with these issues. We dealt with them in our local communities.
00:37:25.880And so the feeling of exhaustion and feeling disenfranchised and done with the whole political debate is totally understandable.
00:37:36.920And maybe that's actually part of the answer, Ali.
00:37:39.940Maybe we do need to tune out some of the noise coming out of D.C., the noise from national political divisions and debates, and focus like a laser beam on fighting evil in our little camp.
00:37:57.720And that starts with your home, okay?0.94
00:37:59.420If you're not raising dragon slayers who are going to inherit this republic, they will be catechized and discipled by rainbow demons, okay?1.00
00:38:08.660But your city and your county, if you focus like a laser beam on raising holy hell and shaking the gates of hell in your city and your county, and we actually begin to live like that as Christians, that kind of resistance has always laid the foundation for renewal and reformation.
00:38:28.840My favorite stories, Allie, are the faithful moms and dads, the faithful believers over the centuries whose names like we basically don't know anymore.0.84
00:38:41.540We've completely forgotten. And some of the stories we're never going to know till we get to glory, whose actions had a direct impact on the legacy of Christendom and the kind of freedoms and liberties that we've taken for granted.
00:38:54.680So yes, every cultural and theological issue has been politicized, Christian.
00:39:00.120So you need to be ready and willing to fight politically in a political arena for biblical
00:39:08.020But at the end of the day, we have to be faithful where God has put us.
00:39:11.960It's one of my favorite verses that Christians often forget is in Acts when Paul says,
00:39:16.200God ordained the boundaries of your existence and where you should live.
00:39:19.560Like God literally picked that you would be alive right now listening to Allie, Beth, and I in 2026 in the city that you live in.
00:39:30.200There was intention and purpose behind that, which means that there's a role for you to play.
00:39:35.380I mean, you know, Allie, we even think of the Dark Ages, right, as being this like horrifically, you know, disappointing time where everyone was just dying and there was nothing good going on.
00:39:44.580The Black Death, infectious germs, killing people.
00:39:47.680It was enough to know that nearly a quarter of the world's population had succumbed to dreaded disease.
00:39:53.040But there's this incredible person named Gerhard Agrutta who knew he was living in dark days.
00:39:59.640Everywhere he looked, things only seemed to be getting darker.
00:40:02.800And in the 14th century, Western Europe was at a turning point.
00:40:08.800The Hundred Years' War between England and France still raged, claiming thousands and thousands of lives, bringing instability to both kingdoms.
00:40:17.680The rise of universities brought knowledge, but it also spread a certain form of scholastic humanism and nihilism.
00:40:26.500And plus, Gerhard Ogrute had experienced the debauchery that came with this culture and with university life.0.76
00:40:32.820Add to that the corruption that was visible in the church throughout Europe.
00:40:36.360And it appeared that Christendom, like today, it seemed like it was ready to fall apart.
00:40:41.840And so Gerhard Ogrute walks away from the faith.
00:41:37.220It looked like nothing he had done had any impact.
00:41:40.560But from those schools, Ali, emerged nearly every single figure of the Protestant Reformation, including Martin Luther, Ulrich Zwingli, John Calvin, Martin Busser, Theodore Beza.
00:41:55.380And until someone listened to this podcast, you probably never even heard of Gerhard Agrute.
00:42:00.580And yet your life has been affected by how he lived out his Christian faith.
00:42:05.200That man's devotion had very little effect in his own generation, but he changed the
00:52:44.980that you have to go back to the Wayback Machine to find
00:52:47.220where they suggest we lower the age of consent
00:52:49.860because consent to sex might be consensual in reality,
00:52:53.840even if it's not acknowledged legally.0.92
00:52:55.520OK, all this obsession with sexualizing kids, killing babies and driving a wedge between children and parents has always been some of the issues you start to see before a civilization freaking commits suicide.0.84
00:53:09.340And the only thing that has stayed that madness before, the only thing that has reversed that crash course scenario has been Christian nationalism or whatever they call it today.0.85
00:53:19.380I mean, Christian resistance, believers actually getting engaged.
00:53:22.860Uh, there's this incredible guy, you know, his name, his name is Athanasius, um, Athanasius0.82