Ep 1358 | Cardi B’s Reaction to the Karmelo Verdict Radicalized MeÂ
Episode Stats
Length
1 hour and 14 minutes
Harmful content
Misogyny
8
sentences flagged
Toxicity
37
sentences flagged
Hate speech
50
sentences flagged
Summary
Carmelo Anthony was found guilty of murder and sentenced to 35 years in prison. We ve got wild reactions from Cardi B and Congress, a debate on whether or not Mormonism is Christianity, and the recognition of Christianity by the Department of War. We will wade into this debate and much more on today s episode of Relatable.
Transcript
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Carmelo Anthony was found guilty of murder and sentenced to 35 years in prison. We've got
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wild reactions from Cardi B and Congress. Also, there was a debate on Twitter over whether or not
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Mormonism is Christianity and the recognition of Christianity by the Department of War. We will
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wade into this debate, and we've got so much more to cover on today's episode of Relatable.
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It's brought to you by our friends at Good Ranchers. Go to goodranchers.com,
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use code Allie at checkout. That's goodmanagers.com. Go to Allie.
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Hey guys, welcome to Relatable. Happy Wednesday. Hope everyone is having a wonderful week so far.
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Just want to thank you all for your mini congratulations on baby number four that is
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headed our way sometime this fall. We are super excited and y'all have just been so sweet in your
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comments and your messages. If you haven't heard the news, then surprise, I am pregnant with number
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four. And you can go back and listen to Monday's episode. I talk about finding out that I was
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pregnant and how we kind of went through deciding whether or not we wanted to try for number four.
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And of course, ultimately, God is the author of life and he decides how and when to bless us with
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children. And I'm just so thankful for this gracious gift. My husband and I both are. So
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thank you all so much for your prayers. All right. We've got a lot of news to get into today
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and everything worked out. We originally were going to talk about Carmelo Anthony on Monday,
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but then we changed plans. And of course, over the past couple of days, so much has developed
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with the trial and then the verdict and then the sentencing and then the reaction to all of that.
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And so we'll get into that today since we now have the full perspective on everything that went down.
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But first, this just in, as I'm recording this, the Southern Baptist Convention has voted on the constitutional amendment that was put forth by Al Mohler.
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That is the, um, that's the truth and unity amendment.
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And this is solidifying and shrining in the Southern Baptist constitution that women cannot hold the office or function of pastor.
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So this constitutional amendment passed with 74.66% of the vote.
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So that is the two-thirds vote, more than the two-thirds vote, that is needed to keep going.
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This constitutional amendment is not going to be ratified because next year, the SPC, the messengers, have to vote again.
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And if they pass that two-thirds threshold again, then this amendment will be enshrined
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And if you want to know more details, why is this necessary?
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Isn't this basically already a part of Southern Baptist doctrine?
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I really encourage you to go back and to listen to or watch that episode.
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We'll link it in the description of this episode so you can know the details and hear more
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of Al Mohler in his own words. His amendment says that it is to make clear that a cooperating
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Southern Baptist church does not affirm, appoint, or endorse a woman serving in the office or
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function of a pastor, elder, overseer, specifically preaching to the assembled congregation. So at the
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SBC convention, which is happening right now, Al Mohler makes his pitch for this amendment.
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Thank you, Mr. Chairman. This is an opportunity for Southern Baptists to speak in truth,
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in unity, in conviction, consistent with our confession. There's a great line that divides
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liberal and biblical evangelicalism, and you can see it on this very issue. The trajectory of
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liberal denominations is clear. The Southern Baptist Convention, in adopting the Baptist
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Faith and Message in the year 2000, stated confessionally that the office of pastor is
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limited to men as qualified by scripture. Subsequent years, 26 subsequent years have
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demonstrated that we need constitutional clarity on this issue. This will allow Southern Baptists
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to move forward in unity and in truth. And I believe the Lord has brought us together in
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Orlando, Florida to do just that. So that was part of the short speech that he made there
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on the floor. And so we will see what happens next year. You got to keep up a lot of momentum
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there. And those who are advocating for this amendment have to continue to make their case
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through the convention in Indianapolis next year. Also, Willie Rice was just voted in as the new
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president of the Southern Baptist convention. I didn't know much about Willie Rice. He is a pastor
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from Baptist Church in Florida. But I hear from someone who is attending right now that this is
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the more conservative pick. And so people are excited about that. Had some rough years there
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in the SBC flirting with liberalism in a lot of ways when it comes to egalitarianism, when it
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comes to social justice. And so these do seem like a turn in the direction of doctrinal biblical
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faithfulness. And so we're happy about that. Maybe we'll have Dr. Moeller on sometime in
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the next couple of weeks, just to talk about more of what's going on in the SBC and why it matters
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whether you are Baptist or not. All right, now let's turn our eyes to Carmelo Anthony and his
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murder trial. Those of you who have been listening for a long time, you know, born and raised in
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Dallas, Texas. This occurred just minutes away from where I grew up. This hits closer to home
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because of that, because these communities are so intertwined. I mean, I can picture in my mind's
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eye so perfectly the kind of field on which this happened and where this is located in the Dallas
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Metroplex. Of course, this matters objectively because these are people made in God's image
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because a young man lost his life completely unnecessarily. And so I can't follow every
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single trial and every single case that goes on in the country, but this one especially caught
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my attention for a variety of reasons. Also because it speaks to this larger trend of
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Western institutions having over-corrected in their approach to racism. So in an effort to
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make up for past discrimination, especially in the United States, things like Jim Crow laws,
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and in order to avoid accusations of racial bias, really the justice system and the media
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often show greater sympathy toward minority offenders than toward white victims. And that's
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wrong. That is unjust. It is just as unjust as discriminating against black people because of
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the color of their skin or showing more sympathy toward white people because of the color of their
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skin. It's wrong in both cases. Lady justice is supposed to be blind. And we don't just see this
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trend here in the U S with Austin Metcalf and Carmelo Anthony. We also see it with the tragic
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case of Henry Novak. We've watched that trial. Uh, we watched that trial and the verdict, uh,
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take place, um, when it comes to that crime and Henry Novak losing his life. And we'll get into
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more of that today as well. It shows that the sin of racial partiality is actually blinding Western
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culture to true justice. And it's a deadly evil. Both killers were found guilty. Thank the Lord.
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But the police negligence in Novak's case and the massive support of Carmelo Anthony, um, that he
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was able to garner show how deep this rot is defending murders on the grounds of so-called
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anti-racism. So that is why I'm looking at both of these cases. And while the verdict ended up
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in the right direction in both, I'm still worried about aspects of how the conversation went,
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how the debate went, and what it speaks to when it comes to how we define and carry out justice.
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So let's first look at the murder trial of Carmelo Anthony. It began last week. The 19-year-old was
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found guilty of murder and sentenced to 35 years in prison. On Tuesday afternoon, after stabbing
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Austin Metcalf to death at a Frisco, Texas track meet in April, 2025, uh, because Carmelo was a
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minor at the time of stabbing. He was 17. The death penalty was not on the table. There's a
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possibility of parole after 17 and a half years, half of his sentence, he would be 36 and a half.
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And so he could still get married, have children, which of course is much more of a future than he
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allowed for Austin Metcalf. He pleaded not guilty, claiming the killing was self-defense.
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And then we have that picture right there of Carmelo and the young man that he murdered,
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Austin Metcalf, who was also 17 when he lost his life. So according to the arrest report,
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Carmelo, a Frisco Centennial High School student, was in the tent for Frisco Memorial students. So
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that's different high school in Austin. He was a student at Frisco Memorial asked him to leave.
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They were both 17 at the time. Uh, Carmelo reportedly replied, touch me and see what
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happens. Austin reportedly grabbed Carmelo's shoulders to move him. And Carmelo pulled a
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knife from his bag and stabbed Austin in the chest. Austin died at the scene and the arms of
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his twin brother, Hunter, this video, this interview of Hunter Metcalf after the incident
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it happened it just lives on replay in my brain because of just how tragic this is set one he's a
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good kid we just kind of walked occasion and that's really it but he has a good heart everyone
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knows everyone around who knows he's a great kid just just one one mistake that dude and this
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No one deserves a loss from a family like that.
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I know people that are still family members all the time.
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There are reports also that when he was holding his brother Austin,
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as he was bleeding out, as he was taking his final breaths,
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that Hunter was saying, this is my best friend.
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I mean, I just cannot imagine the pain that he is still going through
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I've seen a lot of people say over the past 24 hours, gosh, pray for Carmelo Anthony and pray
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for his parents. Yes, absolutely. We should. Carmelo Anthony is a human being made in God's
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image and he is not beyond redemption. No one is beyond redemption. I do pray for him. I pray that
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God's kindness would lead him to repentance. I pray that in his jail cell, that when he is
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dealing with the full brunt of the law and the full brunt of the consequences of his actions,
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that Jesus would meet Carmelo Anthony where he is, that he would trust and believe in the gospel,
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that he would be washed over with the guilt and the shame of his actions that can actually
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lead to a humility and a repentance that is needed from all of us when we come to Christ
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to realize, gosh, we are sinners in need of a savior and only by grace through faith
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can we be saved. I pray that for Carmelo. I pray that for his family. If his family doesn't already
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know Christ. But I also am praying for Hunter. I see fewer people, even on our side of things,
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on the conservative side, saying, please pray for Hunter than I am seeing people say,
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pray for Carmelo. Don't forget about Hunter Metcalf. Don't forget about his parents. I don't
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know exactly where they are in their faith. They think all parties at one time or another have
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kind of invoked Christianity. But gosh, pray that the God of all comfort would be with Hunter
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because Satan can use this in Hunter's life to try to destroy his faith, to destroy his joy,
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to destroy his hope. I mean, if he can, you know, if he can lead to the situation, if he can create
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the kind of conflict and stoke the kind of division that would lead to a murder like this
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and take the life, the physical life of one brother, it's just a win for him if he can try
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to hurt spiritually the other brother. And so pray for protection, pray that God would redeem
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the situation for Hunter and use this testimony, not only to help himself and to remind himself
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of God's faithfulness in the darkest times, but also to help other people. So I just don't want
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to see all of the sympathy shift toward Carmelo and his family. They deserve some sympathy because
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they are people, of course, and they have also lost in a way, a son, a person. And it's really
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sad, but I don't want us to forget that there is an entire family that is still reeling from the
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very fresh loss of an innocent life in Austin. And so God is big enough to be working on a million
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things when we only see one thing, but let's not forget that family and our prayers as well.
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All right. We've got more on this and the actual trial. What went down in just a second? Let me
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So you'll remember that when Carmelo was arrested by the Frisco police,
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that he confessed to them saying, I'm not alleged I did it. So I guess the police said something
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along the lines of it's alleged that you stabbed him. And he just straight up said, I'm not alleged
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I did it. And then he asked if what he did would constitute a self-defense. I see some people
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trying to defend Carmelo saying that he was asking if Austin Metcalf was okay to the police. Well,
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apparently it is because he wanted to see if he was going to go to prison for the rest of his life
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he was asking uh is that self-defense he put his hands on me carmelo said i told him not to well
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look there's a lot of things that we could tell someone not to do and if they do it we're still
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not justified in murdering them and it's very sad that he doesn't have parents who taught him this
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i mean this is obvious that just because someone disrespects you someone touches your shoulder
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someone even shoves you. Although as we'll get into witness testimony, he said it was like a
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very light push that Carmelo's body didn't even move when he was pushed. It wasn't anything
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aggressive. But even if it had been, that's not a threat to your life. And so you don't get to
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disproportionately respond by killing someone. I mean, that should be obvious. That's basic
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common sense. But absolutely, your parents should teach you that. Your parents should be teaching
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you about self-control. They should be teaching you about impulse control. They should be teaching
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you about the law. They should be teaching you about the consequence of your actions. Um, I don't
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know whether or not his parents taught him that if he was coddled, if he lacked discipline, I don't
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know, but it didn't set in obviously. So despite the details revealing this to be very clearly
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murder and not self-defense, Carmelo has a lot of supporters, both online and showing up in person
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at the Collin County Courthouse. Last week, people started demonstrating in support of
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Carmelo Anthony, chanting, I declare, I declare Carmelo Anthony is free. Name it and claim it.
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Saw it too. Okay. So is this representative of every black person who lives in Frisco or lives
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in America? Absolutely not. But unfortunately, this reaction isn't exclusive to like a dozen
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of these demonstrators in front of the courthouse. This is a sentiment that we have now seen echoed
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by many people, even prominent people across the country. There was one supporter who spoke to the
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Dallas Morning News who said so many of us Black Americans have similar stories of us being bullied
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or harassed by these people, these people, and we try to defend ourselves. It's an issue. Well,
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yeah. Like if someone bullies you or says something mean to you and you quote unquote,
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defend yourself by stabbing them in the heart, it's an issue. Yeah. It's a problem. Like it's
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an issue with the law. And it's amazing to me how many people think that perceived disrespect as a
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justification for murder. It's actually very, very disturbing. Um, even members of the new
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black Panther party, the black nationalist hate group, that's just what they are arrived to
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support Carmelo. You can see this picture right there. I mean, it's hard to see how this is not
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jury intimidation, which is against the law. You're not supposed to have any effect or try to
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have any effect on the jury whatsoever. I think those people should be arrested for that attempt.
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You even see a protester in front of the Collin County courthouse taking a knee.
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She's got her hand up, the black power hand.
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And I just want to remind you, like, this is even different than George Floyd.
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And things got so convoluted after George Floyd died.
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And so many facts were not revealed at first that were then revealed later about the levels
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of fentanyl in his body and Derek Chauvin and all of that.
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But at least in that case, you had someone who died.
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And the allegation and the thought was initially that he was killed by a police officer who was
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acting in a cruel way. And you had people defending someone who they believed, many
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believed sincerely, was a victim. And then believed also, even though we don't have any
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evidence of this, that he was killed because of the color of his skin. At least you understand
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the sympathy there. Like you could understand how someone would see George Floyd or see Michael
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Brown or see these other people who were killed by a white person or by a police officer as
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victims, even if they're wrong about some of the details and their impugning motives that we don't
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know actually exist. Like you understand where the sympathy is coming from. We're not talking
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about a black person who was killed. We're not talking about a black victim or a perceived
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victim. We are talking about a black person who murdered a white person. And still we have people
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showing up, raising their fist in black power in defense of Carmelo Anthony. That is not only
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insane, it is so deeply demonic that you believe good is evil and evil is good. There's a clip
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that was recorded right before the verdict was decided. Protesters say, say his name for Carmelo
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as if he is the victim. Again, this is what you say for Breonna Taylor. If this is what you say
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for Michael Brown or all of these people who actually died because of a police interaction.
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Carmelo is the murderer, and here they are honoring him.
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okay what do we want justice when do we want it now the people who yell loudest most persistently
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about justice have zero clue what it is justice to social and racial justice activists means
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getting the outcome that they desire. Okay. Justice actually isn't primarily about the
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outcome. Justice is primarily about the process, about the due process done in a way that is fair,
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objective, blind, legal. Justice is not just getting the outcome that you want because of
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the color of someone's skin. That's actually unjust. Partiality, showing preferential treatment
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towards someone because they're rich, because they're poor, because they're black, because
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they're white, because they're an immigrant, because they're native born. That is unjust.
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Justice, by definition, has to be impartial and colorblind in order for it to be just.
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And so they're using these words and mean the exact opposite of what the words mean.
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But this word in these black activist groups, justice, has been thrown around and distorted
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and manipulated so many times. And of course, justice is seen as universally positive. And so
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if you just attach a universally positive word to your movement, you are going to be
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manipulated and manipulate other people into thinking that your cause is good.
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Both families have received hundreds of thousands of dollars in donations. The Metcalfs have raised
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$586,714 through GoFundMe. That's of Tuesday, June 9th. And then the Anthony's raised $625,800
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$185 through give, send, go. Almost 50K more than was raised for the murder. Okay. So Carmelo
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Anthony has garnered a lot of sympathy. The one who murdered someone else. There are more reactions
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to the guilty verdict. Dom Alexander, he says, this just shows that black lives don't matter
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in Collin County, sub four. But what this process did is shown that black lives do not matter in
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Collin County. It showed us that time and time in American history, it has shown us to remove
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emotions from yet the law. This trial showed that it put emotions over the law. After Trayvon Martin
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in so many countless names, it has shown us that black life is not safe in Collin County.
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This is so maddeningly insane. Like these people should not be within 50 miles from making any
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consequential decisions whatsoever, especially when it comes to the law and justice. The exact
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opposite of what he said is true. We are talking about a black perpetrator killing a white guy.
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I have no idea if it was racially motivated. Okay. So I'm not going to do the same thing
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that the BLM activists do when a white person kills a black person and just assumes automatically
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that it's because of race and discrimination. I have no idea if Carmelo Anthony hated white people
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or if he killed Austin Metcalf because he was white. I have no clue, but I do know that he was
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a black person who killed a white person, and suddenly we're talking about black lives not
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being safe in Collin County. That is actually insane. And then we have Cardi B, y'all. Cardi B,
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the rapper, she's speaking up about this verdict. She says, wow, just freaking wow. Disgusting.
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This is not justice. This is trying to make an example. What are you even saying? Not that I
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expected Cardi B to like understand what due process is or to have this solid moral compass,
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but also like if Nicki Minaj can do it, I feel like you could too, Cardi B. Like,
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I feel like if you just tried and you turned your thinking cap on for a second, you could see
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that, yeah, murder is bad and you should go to jail for murder. He's not getting the death penalty.
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He's not getting life in prison. He's going to get out when he's in his mid thirties. He could
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get married. He could have kids. He could probably get a job. He might even, well, he might get out
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in his mid thirties. He could get out later than that. It depends on the parole situation,
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but he has more of a future than Austin Metcalf has. And yeah, we should make an example out of
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murders. That's part of the reason for the justice system. It is preventative in that way.
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It is saying, Hey, if you do this, you will also get this punishment. So don't do it.
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like that's a good thing. We want people who are potential murderers to see the justice system
00:25:17.080
actually working and saying, I'm going to think twice before I kill someone because I'm mad that
00:25:21.640
they threatened to touch my backpack. It's not just rappers like Cardi B. It's not just these
00:25:27.800
random activists. It's also representatives. It's also Congress people. We've got Jasmine
00:25:32.500
Crockett. She represents Houston. She said that it's actually black women who live in fear and
00:25:38.760
that the Metcalfs have no clue what they're going through. Stop five. Black women, especially
1.00
00:25:45.520
black women who have black male children, live in fear and agony every single day. A fear and agony
1.00
00:25:58.260
that I promise you, the Metcalfs probably never spend a day living that way.
0.79
00:26:05.380
why why do they live in fear and agony why do moms of black boys black men live in fear and agony
00:26:15.960
has nothing to do with austin metcalf has nothing to do with the police has nothing to do with white
0.90
00:26:21.300
people if black mothers fear for their son's lives the fear should be toward other black men
0.99
00:26:29.200
because statistically black men are the ones killing black men every single day. Black boys
1.00
00:26:36.660
are killing black boys in the streets every single day. That has nothing to do with white
1.00
00:26:41.640
people. That has nothing to do with the police and how cruel and how calloused, how evil is this
0.94
00:26:47.560
for a Congress woman to say this in reaction to a verdict of a trial that has to do with a boy
00:26:57.460
being murdered. And her words of sympathy are not for the Metcast. It's actually to say,
0.99
00:27:02.720
you don't really know suffering. You've never been through anything as hard as black moms.
0.77
00:27:09.500
Look, black people are not systemically discriminated against in America. They're
00:27:14.380
just not. If anything, there is a system of preferential treatment towards those who are
00:27:19.240
perceived as marginalized in this country. I mean, especially when it comes to things like
00:27:23.960
affirmative action, certainly in progressive cities, when you have these progressive DAs that
00:27:28.920
absolutely show preferential treatment based on racial quotas. So this myth that is being
00:27:35.340
perpetuated, that is used as an excuse to be cruel against people because of the color of
00:27:40.060
their skin, cruel against Austin Metcalf and his family, I just think it's disgusting.
00:27:44.000
And I just have no tolerance for it. I just really, really don't. I haven't had tolerance
0.99
00:27:48.520
for it since 2020. But even more so now that we are talking about sympathy for someone who
00:27:55.180
murdered someone else, not the person who died. I just, I can't, I don't have any patience for it
00:28:01.540
anymore. No understanding whatsoever. And I think it's disgusting. All right. We're going to get
00:28:06.500
into more of this and we're going to look at the jury and what some of the witnesses said in just
00:28:10.820
a second, just to solidify this in your mind, in case you have any doubt whatsoever about this
00:28:16.440
verdict and how things ended up. Let me pause. Let me tell you about our next sponsor. This is
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use code alley, good ranchers.com code alley. So last week, this is something that people are
00:29:28.640
talking about, and this is where some of the anger is coming from. Last week, the jury selection
00:29:34.140
became news, especially around racial lines because no black jurors were selected. One
00:29:41.140
black perspective juror said he would quote, have a hard time putting a brother in jail.
00:29:46.640
And he was dismissed as he should have been just as if a white person was like, nope, can't put a
0.58
00:29:52.800
fellow white in jail. Or a woman was like, I'm not going to put a woman in jail for doing it. No,
00:29:57.340
we can't do that. You have to be able to be objective. And this person said he wouldn't
00:30:02.120
be objective. And then there were other black perspective jurors. They were dismissed, but
00:30:06.340
not for racial reasons. And as far as we know, not because they said something like that one
00:30:11.360
prospective juror said prosecutors say that they determined that educators of school aged children
00:30:16.520
could not be impartial when judging this case. And then, um, the Anthony family spokesman. So
00:30:23.520
that's a Dominique Alexander. That's the guy earlier who said, uh, calling County isn't safe
00:30:29.000
for black lives. Crazy. Um, he said that because there were no black jurors, Carmelo was not
1.00
00:30:34.640
receiving a fair trial. Well, that's also just an admission that you don't believe justice should
00:30:38.960
be subjective, that you think that people should factor in their own skin color and the skin color
00:30:43.680
of the defendant when trying to decide the verdict. Not good. The prosecutors argued that
00:30:50.920
since this case itself was not race-based, a diverse jury pool wasn't required. And yes,
00:30:56.420
of course, that's true. This presumption that diversity is always strength. Diversity is
00:31:00.600
always wisdom. Diversity always ends and better outcomes is just not true. It's not supported by
00:31:05.460
any evidence whatsoever. I do think that there are some situations where having diverse perspectives,
00:31:11.160
nationality, maybe even the color of your skin, gender could actually be beneficial and could be
00:31:17.700
helpful, but that's not objectively true across the board. And I agree with the prosecutors in
00:31:21.820
this case. That's not something that's necessary at all. Some online outlets like the shade room
00:31:26.820
have reported that the jury is all white. This is not true. This is just a way to gin up outrage,
00:31:34.280
which why? Why do progressives love to do that? I mean, I think we know the answer,
00:31:39.340
but they love perpetuating these trigger words. They love putting out these narratives that they
00:31:45.880
think are going to cause riots and violence because riots are the voice of the unheard.
00:31:50.340
And they love the intimidation and the mob justice tactic because if they can't win in the courtroom,
00:31:55.720
room. If they can't win in Congress, they're going to win via intimidation. And then they'll
00:31:59.940
turn around and say conservatives are the one always vying for unfair power. Okay. It's all
00:32:04.660
a projection. It's all Alinsky tactics. Uh, daily mail reporter, Marianne Martinez gives the race
00:32:10.380
breakdown of the jury pool to debunk this all white jury rumor. Um, basically I don't have to
00:32:16.360
go down the entire list, but you can see it there. If you're watching on YouTube, two Asian women,
1.00
00:32:21.240
middle eastern woman wearing a head covering an indian woman and a hispanic or indian man okay
00:32:27.780
this is actually just very representative of the frisco area uh anyway like there are a lot of
00:32:33.940
hispanics there are a lot of middle eastern indian asian people and then a lot of white it's not
00:32:39.760
heavily a black area so it actually just is representative of the larger community and then
00:32:46.980
there were several witnesses who were called to the stand. And we heard a lot of very troubling
00:32:52.780
details from these witnesses. On Saturday, witnesses called by the prosecution revealed
00:32:58.780
that Carmelo provoked Austin before the stabbing. And by the way, since this case has become
00:33:03.700
racialized, my preference would be that it was never racialized whatsoever, that we never talked
00:33:08.520
about the color of their skin. But unfortunately, people made it that way. And so I have to point
00:33:14.160
out that the witnesses that were brought to the stand were both black and white. There were black
00:33:18.420
students and there were white students who testified in this way. They said that Carmelo
00:33:24.300
provoked Austin, that Carmelo kept his hands in his backpack. Then Austin shoved Carmelo's shoulders
00:33:30.280
and then Carmelo pulled out a knife and stabbed Austin. A 15 year old witness said that Carmelo
00:33:35.660
quote, tried to provoke us when asked to leave the tent. A 16 year old student athlete said that the
00:33:40.440
memorial team, Austin Metcalf's team, not Carmelo's, Carmelo's from Centennial, repeatedly
00:33:45.240
told Carmelo to leave after he sat inside their tent. But he allegedly refused and started cursing
00:33:51.640
at them and calling them names, saying, F y'all, F y'all, I'm not going to leave. Y'all are a bunch
0.99
00:33:57.060
of P words. Y'all not going to do anything. Touch me and see what happens. Now, the defense tried
00:34:03.320
to say that touch me and see what happens was like a mode of self-defense, like some kind of,
00:34:11.840
hey, if you do this, I'm going to interpret it as a threat to my life. Well, that obviously
00:34:16.440
wasn't persuasive to the jury. It's not persuasive at all. That's a threat. That is a provocation.
00:34:22.760
That's not saying, hey, like, I feel like my life is in danger. And by the way, even if so,
00:34:31.360
even if it was a warning that, hey, this is how I'm feeling. I've seen some activists saying he
00:34:37.800
said he said it doesn't matter if you say you're going to murder someone or you say that you don't
00:34:42.400
like what someone is doing. That doesn't justify your murdering of them. OK, Austin Metcalfe
00:34:48.860
allegedly replied, according to these witnesses, I'm not going to fight you. One of the witnesses,
00:34:53.940
and I thought that this was really touching, he said the reason it was Austin Metcalfe who was
00:34:59.200
kind of leading the charge and confronting Carmelo was because he was always the leader.
00:35:05.220
He was always the leader of the group. He was always taking one for the team. It makes me want
00:35:08.860
to cry, actually. Like he was always kind of laying himself down for his team. And by the way,
00:35:15.240
his team that was sitting there in the tent were filled with white and black kids. This wasn't
0.97
00:35:20.060
like some white on black situation. And now this is my perspective, my interpretation of what's
00:35:25.800
happening. Carmelo seemed to have gone in the tent to cause trouble and he was causing problems.
00:35:31.860
And I don't know why he was trying to provoke them. I don't know if he was bothered by something,
00:35:37.400
if he had been triggered by something. I don't know. But I bet that a lot of the people in the
00:35:43.340
tent were not comfortable with what was happening. OK, you've got this guy. He's angry. He's calling
00:35:48.620
people names. He's cussing. He seems more and more aggressive. You don't know what he's about
00:35:53.460
to do. And of course the thought is, okay, well, if I stand up, if we just say something about it,
00:35:59.620
I mean, Austin Metcalf, bigger than Carmelo Anthony, he probably said, okay, if I just
00:36:04.260
kind of stand up and say, dude, leave, we're not going to do this. I'm not going to fight you in
00:36:09.640
the tent that he's going to leave. Of course he had no reason to think that he was about to be
00:36:15.220
murdered on Monday. One of the defense witnesses said that he thought Anthony was in the wrong
00:36:20.140
and revoked the fight. One of the defense, defense witnesses said he thought Anthony was in the wrong
00:36:26.200
and provoked the fight. And so this just was not, not a good showing for the defense. When Dr.
00:36:31.560
Elizabeth Ventura took the witness stand, she showed autopsy photos of the stab wound
00:36:35.800
and Austin's heart. And then members of the jury audibly gasped. One woman put her hand over her
00:36:41.200
mouth. Carmelo looked away. Okay. So at least we see one moment of shame there or discomfort that
00:36:48.080
discomfort and that shame and Carmelo Anthony is good spiritually. Like we want him to be
00:36:53.220
confronted with the evil that was perpetrated by him. Um, during cross examination, one of
00:36:58.900
Carmelo's attorneys suggested Austin may have impaled himself on Carmelo's knife. Okay. So
00:37:06.180
that's how things were going for the defense. He focused on the wound depth and angle and asked
00:37:11.980
about several different scenarios in which Metcalf could have suffered a wound at the angle he did.
00:37:17.020
you know i'm not even criticizing the defense i think they had so little to work with honestly
00:37:22.280
when you have someone who said in police custody i'm not alleged i did it like you just you don't
00:37:28.240
have much to work with and remember the defense is not trying to prove innocence the defense is
00:37:34.160
trying to put enough doubt in the jury's mind that there is a possibility that carmelo is not guilty
00:37:39.940
The jury has to believe that Carmelo is guilty beyond a reasonable doubt. And so the defense
00:37:46.920
is trying to put a reasonable doubt in the minds of the jury, not trying to prove innocent. That's
00:37:52.480
why verdicts are guilty and not guilty, not guilty and innocent. But it didn't work. Carmelo Anthony
00:37:59.320
chose not to take the stand, or I'm sure the lawyers advised, like, hey, you're clearly not
00:38:03.680
your own best advocate here. Carmelo Anthony, without a doubt, murdered Austin Metcalf. I think
00:38:10.540
we can say that confidently. I would have said that confidently weeks ago. I would have said
00:38:13.960
that confidently when it happened based on everything that we know. So why are so many
00:38:19.260
people rallying behind him? It reminds me a lot of the OJ Simpson case and the reaction to that.
00:38:25.280
We don't have time to get into all of that. We actually had a whole segment prepared and going
00:38:29.340
down memory lane and how many black activists and much of the black community at the time
00:38:33.860
were supporting him despite the fact that it was so apparent by all of the evidence presented that
00:38:41.400
he was clearly guilty um and the reaction to him being found not guilty in court the disparate
00:38:50.720
reactions between white americans and black americans we can at least put up this full
00:38:54.800
screen, full screen eight that just shows this is representative. We went through a ton of
00:38:59.420
interviews, um, at the time that showed the different reactions from black Americans and
00:39:04.480
white Americans. I mean, OJ Simpson clearly murdered his wife, murdered his ex-wife and
00:39:11.080
murdered her alleged lover. Even the stats at the time show that most of the black community
0.79
00:39:18.620
supported OJ Simpson despite all of this evidence where most white people did not. Most white people
00:39:25.340
were complaining that, you know, because he was famous and because he was rich, he was shown
00:39:30.740
partiality. And then you saw a lot of black power, black support because of melanin count. Again,
00:39:36.740
is this indicative of every single person in every single race? No, but it is a pattern that
00:39:42.560
we unfortunately see a lot, this idolatry of skin color, idolatry of melanin count,
0.76
00:39:48.440
refusal to take emotions and to take your lived experience and your skin color out of the equation
00:39:55.580
when it comes to justice. And as law schools become more progressive and they lean toward
00:40:02.200
this kind of like minority victim mentality, we are unfortunately going to see a movement
00:40:10.540
in the direction of injustice that is called justice. And that's why we need, I just want to
00:40:16.780
call on you. If you are a Christian, you need to become a lawyer probably. If God has equipped you
1.00
00:40:24.180
for that, if you're considering going to law school, I think you should go to law school. I
00:40:28.840
think you should take the bar exam. I think you should become an attorney. Now, of course, I'm not
00:40:33.540
the Holy Spirit in your life, and there could be so many other factors that are going on in your
00:40:39.240
own season right now. But, you know, I got asked the other day, my husband, he's really brilliant
00:40:44.760
and he does super well in law school. And, you know, he's considering becoming an attorney or
00:40:50.280
a pastor. What should he do? Well, again, I'm not any authority in your life and there could be so
00:40:55.480
many different, uh, factors going on there, but I say lawyer, I say lawyer, um, because I just
00:41:02.080
think that there is so much that Christians can and must do in the area of law. Like we serve the
00:41:08.560
God who created justice. Those who serve the God who created justice should be the ones carrying
00:41:13.160
out justice. And so please, godly people, join the Department of Justice. And if you are a
00:41:19.920
Christian lawyer already, make sure that you are in a position to advance justice in these really
00:41:25.560
important areas. All right. I just want to look at these racial victimization rates. I think it's
00:41:31.660
really important to just know what the truth is. We hear Jasmine Crockett. We see Cardi B.
00:41:36.620
we see these people assuming that white people are going around killing black people. That's
0.99
00:41:40.860
certainly something that we heard over and over again in 2020. It's not true. It's just not
00:41:45.940
remotely true. In 2025, the Department of Justice published a report on the rates of violent
00:41:50.480
victimization in 23 and 24, which included racial data for both victims and perpetrators of violent
00:41:56.020
crimes. That's something that racial justice activists, by the way, do not like. They don't
00:42:00.220
like that the DOJ includes that data. An analysis of the data showed that after adjusting for
00:42:05.080
population size, the per capita rate of black on white violent victimization was approximately
00:42:10.200
153 per 10,000 black people, while the white on black rate was only 3.4 per 10,000 white people.
00:42:19.100
So it is orders of magnitude more likely for a black person to kill a white person than a white
0.99
00:42:26.980
person to kill a black person. And mind you that black people only make up about 13% of the
0.99
00:42:31.840
population. Black men who are the vast majority who are perpetrating these crimes make up about
1.00
00:42:37.240
6% of the population. And yet they are accounting for about 50% of all homicides in this country.
1.00
00:42:43.540
And specifically 153 killings per 10,000 black people of black on white victimization. Yikes.
0.95
00:42:52.520
That means that black Americans were roughly 45 times more likely to commit a violent crime. Sorry,
0.99
00:42:57.720
not killing. I think I said killing 45 times more likely to commit a violent crime. That's
00:43:02.520
not always killing against a white American and the other way around. So the fear and agony that,
0.61
00:43:07.580
you know, Congresswoman Jasmine Crockett claims black people feel towards whites, it's just,
00:43:12.040
it's, it's misproportionate. Most murders are actually intraracial FBI homicide data show that
00:43:18.540
88.9% of murders of black people were committed by black offenders. And you know, it seems like
0.94
00:43:23.640
we have this conversation every few years and have for decades. And it seems exhausting and
00:43:30.160
it is exhausting, but we just got to, we have to keep saying it. And the truth has to, has to be
00:43:36.300
recognized. And, you know, people can say that's not empathetic. It's not kind to say, you don't
00:43:42.000
understand. You haven't had their lived experience. Look, the truth matters. Facts matter more than
00:43:47.960
feelings and about, and more than subjective experience. If you love someone, if you love
00:43:52.920
your child and they say there's a monster in my closet the loving thing to do is to turn on the
00:43:56.820
light and show them that there's not and the same is true here no matter how angry people get you
00:44:02.140
need to know like what to actually be scared of you need to know what is really going on that the
0.82
00:44:07.800
enemy isn't white people okay and until we realize that things are going to be very chaotic and very
00:44:14.720
divided for a very long time unfortunately the same is true when it comes to the uk and the story
00:44:20.080
of Henry Novak there. Now we recorded the next segment a few days ago. There's just been some
00:44:25.600
rearranging with our recording schedule. And so I didn't realize that Henry Novak's name was
00:44:31.520
pronounced Novak because it's Polish and the W is pronounced with a V. So I apologize for that
00:44:37.320
mispronunciation, but let's go across the pond and let's see a somewhat similar story of something
00:44:43.740
that happened to a British young man who was totally mistreated by the police, perhaps because
00:44:49.540
of the color of his skin and the accusations against him. Let me pause, tell you about our
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ultrasound through preborn. Go to preborn.com slash Allie. This week, there was body cam
00:45:59.900
footage that was released of the UK police response to the stabbing of Henry Nowak. I think
00:46:05.280
I pronounced his name differently now. Nowak causing outrage and sparking protests. When
00:46:09.560
police arrived at the scene, instead of arresting the murderer, the guy who stabbed him, a Sikh man,
00:46:14.400
they handcuffed Henry Nowak, the victim, and he tragically died in custody. Y'all, I haven't even
00:46:21.100
been able to retweet this, talk about this on X or talk about it on the show or talk about it on
00:46:27.680
my Instagram because of how just tragic I find it. I haven't been able to watch the footage.
00:46:32.440
I don't want to see the pictures. I literally just saw a picture of Henry's hand as he was
00:46:37.880
in custody, which was white and blue because he so obviously was bleeding out. And that just
00:46:43.840
made me so sad. He went to the police for help after he was stabbed and they just said, no,
00:46:50.020
we don't think that you've been stabbed. So to back up a little bit, he was an 18 year old from
00:46:55.120
Essex. He was, um, apparently a hardworking student. He earned good grades. He was a student
00:47:01.580
at the university of Southampton, um, according to accounting and fine, a study and counting and
00:47:07.100
finance. And then on December 3rd of last year, he was walking home from a night out with his
00:47:11.300
football teammates, and he ran into this 23-year-old named Vikram Digwa, I assume from
00:47:16.800
India. An altercation ensued. We don't really know all of the details. Digwa was openly carrying a
00:47:22.740
large ceremonial Sikh knife with a blade over eight inches long. It's illegal to carry knives
00:47:28.860
in public in the UK with a few exceptions. It's also illegal to carry pepper spray, tasers,
00:47:34.400
stun guns for self-defense. Gosh, thank you to all of America's founders for the revolution.
00:47:42.760
Sikhism is a religion that originated in the Punjab region of India and Pakistan. Sikhs are
00:47:50.640
allowed to carry ceremonial knives in the UK for quote, religious reasons. So this is the knife
1.00
00:47:58.040
that the guy used. You can see how sharp it is. Yikes. So Sikhs wear these knives, ironically,
00:48:06.580
in this case, as a reminder of their commitment to the tenets of their faith, including justice,
00:48:10.680
charity, morality, humility, and equality. So from the outset, this crime was enabled by UK's
00:48:16.080
double standards. Any white person would have been arrested and faced a four-year prison sentence
0.61
00:48:21.040
for carrying such a weapon. Literally just any white person, any British person. If someone said,
00:48:26.140
you know what i am a catholic or i am church of england and you know according to this passage
00:48:32.860
i am supposed to wear this as a symbol of self-defense or i am supposed to wear this as a
00:48:39.400
symbol of the sword that is going to be coming out of jesus's mouth when he returns in the second
00:48:44.460
coming whatever you want to use as your theological basis for it it never would have flown like it
00:48:51.540
just wouldn't have passed. Noak's killer could brandish the weapon openly with no repercussions,
00:48:56.180
just based on the color of his skin, because no one's going to question you if you're from India
00:49:00.460
and you say that you have a religious reason for this. Digwa stabbed Noak multiple times in this
00:49:05.880
altercation, puncturing his lung. Digwa's brother, Gurpreet, called the police, so he was there
00:49:11.740
saying, we have just been attacked racially by some white person. No evidence of that. Here's
00:49:18.360
audio of that call. Stop five. I just parked on my car to come home and he attacked my brother.
00:49:24.640
You're talking about verbally or physically? No, no, he's physically attacked my brother.
00:49:28.560
We're Sikhs. We wear turban and he's just attacked my brother.
00:49:33.220
Have any weapons been involved? No, no, no. Okay. No weapons involved. Well, that is a lie
00:49:39.300
right there. So we already see when he called the police, that is a lie. This guy stabbed or his
00:49:45.560
brother stabbed Henry multiple times. Um, and so in the body cam footage that was just released,
00:49:52.400
you see Noack saying, I've been stabbed. I can't breathe. Call an ambulance to which the police
00:50:00.100
simply respond. I don't think you have mate. So he's not resisting arrest. They put him in
00:50:06.160
handcuffs. The arresting officer asks for Henry's name before reading him his rights. Noack is
00:50:10.240
unresponsive. And the female officer shines a light in his face and says, are we able to get
00:50:14.040
an ambulance. His pupils aren't even reacting. Gosh, that just breaks my heart. And then Noak
00:50:19.360
died at the scene and police officers who were involved in this arrest are making excuses and
00:50:24.800
saying, oh, we didn't know he was bleeding out, but literally the picture that I just told you
00:50:29.260
about of his hand, obviously completely lifeless. He had blood all over his face and all over his
00:50:35.100
body. You can, you can see that he is bleeding out. And again, it actually is irrelevant whether
00:50:42.780
or not there was some kind of altercation unless he was threatening this guy's life unless he was
00:50:49.460
also armed unless he was threatening to stab him kill him the seat guy or whatever even if there
00:50:55.940
was a like racial bullying incident going on which again we've got no evidence whatsoever
00:51:01.800
and since the brother already lied like i just don't really believe him there um that doesn't
00:51:08.660
justify this guy being murdered. This doesn't justify Henry being stabbed multiple times.
00:51:15.400
Mr. Nowak said his son had not died with dignity and should not have died on the streets of
00:51:19.480
Southampton in police custody. It's absolutely true. Even if you think that Henry Nowak did
00:51:24.800
something wrong in the first place, he should not have died. Like police should have helped him.
00:51:31.200
They should have tried to save his life, to stop the bleeding, take him to the hospital immediately,
00:51:37.440
and then maybe we would know the details. Maybe then we would have actually gotten justice. But
00:51:42.260
now we just have accusations from one side. We've got rumors and we have a dead young man
00:51:48.220
who won't live to graduate, who won't live to get married and have children, who won't have a future
00:51:53.460
because the police refuse to offer aid. Maybe because of the assumption that he really was
00:52:00.140
just some racist bigot bully that attacked this guy because he was Sikh. It's just not really
0.96
00:52:05.880
believable that one individual, he looks like a very small guy, by the way, um, that he would
00:52:11.460
decide, you know what? I think I'm going to attack two men. I'm outnumbered, but I think I'm going to
0.82
00:52:16.860
attack these two men and bully them and talk about their race and just risk my life. I'm sorry. It's
0.81
00:52:22.060
just not believable, especially in the West today. We see Henry now ex dad or no ex dad, um, talking
00:52:29.620
to the press about the police's double standard SOT 6.
00:52:34.240
Henry should not have died on the streets of Southampton in police custody.
00:52:39.100
The way he was treated was inhumane and degrading.
00:52:52.780
He was not handcuffed when transported to the police station.
00:52:56.120
as far as we understand he was never handcuffed at all and as Vikram Digwa himself told the court
00:53:04.920
whilst under arrest for Henry's murder police even took him to the kitchen so he could choose his
00:53:10.900
food the contrast is unbearable okay so if you're white and you're British and you're accused of
00:53:18.460
racism in the UK, you bleed out in police custody. But if you accuse someone of racism,
00:53:26.840
even though you were found armed with a bloody knife, you are not handcuffed. You are taken into
00:53:36.140
custody. You're taken to a kitchen. Ask what your food preference is for that night. And you are
00:53:41.180
treated like the victim. Okay. This is all because of this assumption that the wider you are, the
00:53:47.780
more guilty you are. And the browner you are, the less you are responsible for your own actions.
0.98
00:53:53.880
This is a sickness, okay, that actually prevents true justice. Now, Digua was already known to the
0.99
00:54:00.660
police. In 2023, he was arrested and released without charge after stealing a thousand pounds
00:54:05.240
worth of ceremonial Sikh knives. So not a great guy. Now, thankfully, Digua was jailed for life
0.63
00:54:14.100
with a minimum of 21 years and so that's like pretty intense for the uk and i'm actually kind
00:54:21.340
of surprised by that over a thousand protesters gathered outside southampton central police
00:54:26.480
station this week to hold a minute of silence for the teenager there were reportedly clashes
00:54:31.180
between police and demonstrators with one person being arrested and we can just go through all of
00:54:36.640
these pictures there was a ton of support for henry i mean people in the uk are just fed up
00:54:42.500
preferential treatment toward Muslims, toward immigrants, and partiality against native Brits.
00:54:50.520
That's a problem. That's a problem. We have a voiceover, I think, of the protest just to show
00:54:55.660
the amount of support that Henry Nowak got, because he really is kind of a symbol at this point
00:55:01.320
of the injustice that I think a lot of Brits feel, the racial injustice that is happening,
00:55:08.980
that the UK government really favors people from other countries over the people that were born and
00:55:17.360
raised there, over the people who have been there for generations. Justice is not blind there to
00:55:22.920
many people in the United States. Justice is not and should not be blind. But that, of course,
00:55:29.540
justice that is not blind, of course, is injustice. And again, the people who talk the
00:55:35.140
most about justice seem to have the least understanding of what justice actually is.
00:55:42.380
There was an English journalist by the name of Kathy Newman.
00:55:44.880
She accused members of the British right, like Nigel Farage, of stoking the division.
00:55:48.860
However, when pressed by Shadow Home Secretary Zia Yusuf, she was unable to say that white
00:55:58.600
What Nigel Farage said today was that white lives matter as much as black lives.
00:56:05.140
You seem to be conducting an interview with me, but I'm trying to ask you the question.
0.61
00:56:09.140
I'm asking you, Nigel said that white lives matter as much as black lives.
00:56:13.160
And my question to you is, do you disagree with that statement?
00:56:15.740
And my question to you is about Nigel Farage's claims of anti-white prejudice.
00:56:20.980
I'm kind of stunned that you couldn't bring yourself to say that you agree with the statement
00:56:26.360
that white lives matter as much as black lives.
0.96
00:56:29.020
I can't understand why you can't just confirm you agree with that statement.
0.56
00:56:41.100
And I would love you to answer that question about racism against black and minority ethnic
00:56:49.620
He seems like he is from, I don't know, maybe India or something like that.
00:56:53.840
And this white lady can't even say that, yes, all lives matter the same, which is my stance,
00:56:59.760
And that is simply what I want to see manifested in all manners of justice, whether it is law
00:57:06.180
enforcement, whether it is sentencing, um, in court, I want everyone to be able to receive
00:57:12.940
due process and for everyone to be judged in righteousness and truth based on facts and not
00:57:20.180
based on the color of their skin. All right, we'll get to more in just a second. Let me pause and
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all right now i know both of those stories were very tragic and very sad and let's pray for
00:58:32.280
justice to be done and this is why christians have to be involved in politics it's why we have
00:58:37.540
to be involved in the so-called culture wars a lot of people try to diminish um the importance
00:58:42.880
of christian involvement and what goes on in the world that i'm certainly not saying we should
00:58:46.420
idolize politics or that we should be glued to the news or to our social media timelines
00:58:50.640
all the time. Not at all. But Christians, because we know intimately the God who created justice,
00:58:57.160
we are going to be advocates of justice. God gets to define it. Justice is not just what feels good.
00:59:02.640
It's not just let's make up for past wrongs. It's not just, oh, well, let's give preferential
00:59:07.760
treatment to those that we consider marginalized. No, no, no. That's not the definition of justice.
00:59:12.680
Remember, justice, according to the God who created it, is truthful. It's proportional.
00:59:16.660
it is direct. It is impartial. Those are some of the characteristics that define God's justice,
00:59:22.580
as we've talked about so many times. I really encourage you, if this is kind of a new subject
00:59:26.680
and you're like, gosh, this is controversial because it has to do with race, go back and
00:59:30.280
listen to some relatable episodes from 2020 and 2021. We really tried as hard as we could to be
00:59:35.920
as compassionate, as nuanced, but as direct and truthful as we could when it comes to a lot of
00:59:41.180
these narratives surrounding race, surrounding immigration, surrounding policing and sentencing
00:59:45.360
and all of those things, but the truth actually matters. It is actually not loving simply to
00:59:50.540
empathize with someone who says, yeah, I believe that systemic racism is the cause of my problem.
00:59:55.100
So it's not actually loving, just like it's not loving to tell your six-year-old who comes into
00:59:58.700
your room at night that there's, yes, indeed a monster in her closet that she should be scared
01:00:02.540
of. The loving thing to do is to turn on the light and to say, I understand why you're scared
01:00:07.020
of this, but it's not actually true. And yeah, there's a lot of pushback that comes with that,
01:00:12.080
but I believe God cares about justice. And I think that he cares about truth. And I love people too
01:00:16.300
much to believe these lies that stoke all of this kind of fear and paranoia and hatred and injustice.
01:00:22.680
I'm just not going to let go of it. So I will be watching closely, um, the trial of Carmelo
01:00:27.860
Anthony, and I pray to God for true justice and not mob justice, not social media derived justice,
01:00:35.920
but true justice that is based on the facts of what is good and right and true. And you should
01:00:41.340
be no matter your skin color, be praying for that too, because a system like that benefits each and
01:00:46.800
every one of us, our children and our children's children. All right. I couldn't end this news
0.72
01:00:56.260
episode without talking about this big kerfuffle on X that had to do with what a Christian is.
01:01:02.840
What is a Christian? You know what? That could be the next documentary after what is a woman.
01:01:07.620
someone could do the, what is a Christian documentary? I just gave someone a great idea.
01:01:12.660
And there was a debate over whether or not Mormonism is Christianity. And the reason
01:01:18.320
this debate was sparked is because the U.S. Department of Defense or Department of War
01:01:23.440
has reduced its official list of recognized religious affiliation codes from 211 to 31.
01:01:29.420
So they've taken off things like Wiccan. And this is the first major revision since 2017
01:01:35.120
under the leadership of Pete Hedgeseth. And so you've got agnostic, Baha'i faith, Buddhism,
01:01:41.120
and then you have a bunch of different denominations and a bunch of different
01:01:45.500
forms of Christian. And so there's Christian dash assemblies of God, Christian dash Baptist,
01:01:50.340
it goes all the way down. And then there's also, uh, Catholic somewhere in here and then
01:01:56.960
Christian Seventh-day Adventist, Adventist, and then separately, no Christian dash church of
01:02:03.880
Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, Hindu, Islam, Judaism, et cetera. Okay. So people were not
01:02:10.900
happy about this. For example, you've got Republican Senator from Utah, Mike Lee saying,
01:02:16.640
can anyone tell me why the church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints was left out of the list of
01:02:21.460
Christian churches? Mike Lee, the big constitutionalist, very thankful for Mike Lee
01:02:26.660
and so much of the work that he has done for the Republican party. I knew that he was LDS. I did
01:02:32.560
not know how passionate he was about this particular subject. And I don't have time to
01:02:38.260
go through all of the Mormon responses on X, but this was the sentiment. This was the echoed
01:02:47.320
message over and over again that the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints should be
01:02:53.320
connected to Christianity because it is Christian. And then the argument that I see a lot is, well,
01:02:59.480
it has Jesus Christ in its name. It has church in its name. And you can make your arguments
01:03:05.040
theologically for why LDS should be included in Christianity. I had a debate with Jacob Hansen.
01:03:10.660
I've talked about this several times on my show, but that is not a good argument. The argument
01:03:17.460
that Jesus Christ is in the name and so therefore it's Christian isn't a good argument. People's
01:03:23.020
Republic of China, the Republic of North Korea, neither of those places are republics. And so
01:03:28.440
you can call yourself a lot of things that doesn't necessarily mean that you
01:03:32.760
are that thing. So anyway, much more interesting, robust conversation if we want to talk about the
01:03:38.420
theology. One of the responses to Mike Lee, this is also something that I said, is like,
01:03:43.760
look, it's not Trinitarian. We don't even worship the same God. All of these different Christian
01:03:48.460
denominations, including Roman Catholic, Orthodox, and Protestants, we all believe in the Trinitarian
01:03:55.220
in God. We all believe that Jesus is God. John one, not that he shares an essence with God,
01:04:01.720
not that he was elevated to God, not that he is spirit brothers with Satan, but that Jesus
01:04:06.360
actually is God, that he is father, son, Holy spirit. I had some people argue with me about
01:04:12.200
this saying, well, are you sure you're right? That's actually beside the point when we are
01:04:16.220
talking about this particular thing. You, we can argue about who is right and who is not.
01:04:21.120
I've done that in the past. Interesting conversation. The point is that we believe
01:04:25.720
that and you do not. And that is a distinctive of Christianity. And actually, like if you look
0.92
01:04:32.140
back at what Joseph Smith believed in some of the most prominent early teachers of Mormonism,
01:04:38.100
they all believed that the church was apostate and that every denomination and every sect of
01:04:43.860
Christianity, whether it was Roman Catholic or whether it was a Protestant denomination,
01:04:48.440
had gotten it wrong, and not just a little bit wrong so that another denomination was started,
01:04:53.920
but had gotten it fundamentally wrong, that the gospel itself was wrong, and that the church that
01:04:59.360
existed at the time of Joseph Smith was completely rebellious and was not in alignment with the
01:05:08.140
gospel or with God's will, which is why he started a new faith entirely. And this push for Mormonism
0.63
01:05:14.340
to no longer become Mormon and to be wedded with evangelicalism or wedded with Christianity at
01:05:20.420
large is extremely recent. And I just wish that members of the LDS faith would be honest about
01:05:28.180
that aspect. That it wasn't very long ago, I think 10 or 15 years ago, that there was a whole PR
01:05:33.920
campaign of people in Hollywood and people in these different walks of life saying,
01:05:39.360
I am Mormon. I am Mormon. That was the message to say, look, we exist out here. We're not just
01:05:46.680
some enclave that exists in Missouri or Idaho or Utah. We are your neighbors. We contribute to all
01:05:53.560
these different parts of society. When Romney was running for president, there was no conversation
01:06:01.420
about whether or not it is polite to say Mormon versus LDS. That is an extremely recent attempt
01:06:08.880
by those of the LDS faith to try to conflate Mormonism with Christianity. That is not a push
01:06:16.920
that has existed. In fact, it's a complete 180. It's a total about-face from the former belief
01:06:23.160
that they are completely distinct from the apostate churches in Christianity. However,
01:06:29.200
Michael Knowles makes a good point here that I did not think about at the time. I said something
01:06:35.180
about the Trinity being the distinction, he said, it does seem that the LDS are being unfairly
01:06:40.680
singled out. If the essential criterion for Christianity is Trinitarian theology,
01:06:45.280
why do the Jehovah's Witnesses, the Christian scientists, the Oneness Pentecostals, and even
01:06:50.080
Quakers in some instances get a pass here? Okay, that's fair. All of them should be excluded from
1.00
01:06:56.360
the Christian designation because Jehovah's Witness, also not Christian, that is a cultish
0.99
01:07:01.660
sect of offshoot that uses some form of Christian doctrine, manipulates it, turns it into something
01:07:08.720
else entirely, 144,000, all of that. Christian scientists, not even close to Christian. It
01:07:14.780
actually is weird that that was included there. Oneness, Pentecostal, same thing. Quakers,
01:07:20.420
most Quakers don't even really practice Christianity. And so I agree with that point,
1.00
01:07:27.460
but I don't think that that means that LDS does need to be included because LDS presents a
01:07:32.400
different gospel and a different God entirely. And you are totally free to believe that.
01:07:38.140
And we can acknowledge like LDS people are family centered. We share so many conservative values.
01:07:43.540
There are even some theological beliefs that we at least ostensibly share that they are good
01:07:48.440
neighbors, good workers, all of that. We can acknowledge that and obviously say that they're
01:07:52.340
neighbors that we are meant to love without being bullied into saying, oh yeah, you and I
01:07:57.640
essentially believe the same thing. You're not going to bully me into saying that because it's
01:08:00.980
not true. It's not true. And I, this whole like very, very aggressive push to conflate LDS with
01:08:08.860
Christianity. I actually find that to be extremely ungracious. Like you have to realize that we
01:08:14.820
evangelicals and Catholics are kind of taken off guard that for a long time, you guys were content
01:08:19.700
with being called Mormon and being distinct. And now you're trying to say, no, we're one of you.
01:08:24.240
And we're like, hang on. Have you changed what you believe? The answer is no. And so why should
01:08:28.020
we change what we say? It's just weird. It's weird. I've got a little more to say on this.
01:08:33.240
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Code Allie. And when I say that LDS teaches a different gospel, you can go back and listen
01:09:58.160
to my debate with Jacob Hanson. We talk about the Trinity some, but the most important distinction,
01:10:02.220
I think is that they believe that in order to have, to reach the highest level of heaven
01:10:09.980
in which God exists. And so to have full communion with him in his presence, you have to be baptized
01:10:17.440
into the Mormon church. Okay. That's adding on something to the gospel that is adding on
01:10:23.600
something to Jesus's sacrifice, his plan of redemption, not to mention that they believe
01:10:27.580
Jesus to be completely different in nature than we do. And so that is the big distinction there.
01:10:34.100
Again, you can argue with me, as I saw a lot of people do after that debate, that you think the
01:10:38.220
Mormon version of the gospel is better, that you think it's more merciful, that you think it's more
01:10:42.020
gracious than the heaven and hell dichotomy that is clearly presented in scripture. You can take
01:10:46.380
that up with scripture. You can take that up with God himself, who lays out his plan of salvation
01:10:50.940
clearly in the Bible, and that is contradicted by Mormon theology. But that's not really the
01:10:56.920
question. The question is, are they the same message essentially? And they're not the same
01:11:01.600
message. Now, Mike Lee later announced that he had spoken to the president and that the issue
01:11:06.320
had been resolved. He said, I just got off the phone with president Trump. We discussed the
01:11:11.020
Pentagon's Christian list. I won't speak for him, but I'm thrilled about where this is heading.
01:11:14.660
We're most fortunate that president Trump loves Latter-day Saints and is our commander in chief.
01:11:19.380
Stay tuned. Now I do not expect Trump to get in some kind of theological quibble over this
01:11:25.060
at all. And of course, Latter-day Saints are Republicans, Mormons are conservatives. And so
01:11:31.160
it behooves President Trump to satiate, to satiate the LDS community. Now, when it comes to Pete
01:11:40.100
Hedgeseth, like he is much more theologically driven and he is more ideologically inclined.
01:11:45.480
um and so i don't expect him to you know have taken this kind of conversation quite as lightly
01:11:56.460
or as gently as the president but the pentagon did update their religious affiliation codes by
01:12:01.740
removing the christian label altogether um and it so uh the list included quote redundant and
01:12:09.760
unnecessary labeling and the mistake has been fixed. So I do think it's interesting that the
01:12:16.640
Pentagon says that it was redundant and unnecessary, not that they actually made a mistake in what they
01:12:23.280
labeled as Christian and what they didn't label as Christian. And I think that's, I think that's
0.68
01:12:27.700
good. You know, if you're going to find a compromise, then I think that that's the
01:12:31.380
compromise. I'm glad that there wasn't any kind of formal apology there made because it is simply
01:12:37.140
true that Mormonism is outside of Christian orthodoxy. Again, just a reminder, Joseph Smith
0.98
01:12:45.240
said all Christian creeds were an abomination in his sight. And this is so important because
1.00
01:12:52.180
Joseph Smith claims that he was visited by an angel and given a new testimony that kind of
01:12:58.600
usurped the gospel that Christians believed and preached. Galatians 1, 8 through 9 says,
01:13:03.020
but even if we or an angel from heaven should preach to you a gospel contrary to the one we
01:13:08.360
preach to you, let him be accursed as we have said before. So now I say again, if anyone is
01:13:13.380
preaching to you a gospel contrary to the one you received, let him be accursed. The gospel
01:13:18.860
that Christians believe say that there is a heaven. There is a hell. There are not different
1.00
01:13:22.520
levels of heaven that you can achieve or that you can reach if you're a good person or you do the
01:13:28.720
right thing, or you're kind of close to Mormonism, or if you've been baptized in the Mormon church,
01:13:34.200
Jesus's sacrifice is fully sufficient by grace through faith. You have believed you have full
01:13:39.560
access to God through Christ and can access him in eternity in his presence forever and ever.
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That is the gospel. It is contradicted by what Mormons believe. There are a lot of other things,
0.72
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a lot of other contradictions. You have to follow the different Mormon precepts and principles in
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order to be baptized into the Mormon church to reach that third level of heaven. And so that
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includes not drinking hot coffee. For example, there are a lot of different things that are
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added on to the membership and baptism requirements that is then required for the
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fullness of salvation in the Mormon church. And that is an addition to the gospel that Jesus
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Christ taught and that Christianity has taught for thousands of years. And so you can believe
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that, but it is outside of Christian orthodoxy. All right, that's all we got time for today. Lots
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of fun, controversial stuff, stuff to chew on and talk about with your friends and family.
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All right, we will be back here on Friday with an incredible testimony that you don't want to miss.