Ep 1364 ｜ War on Dads, Is Podcasting Preaching？ & the Worst Pregnancy Comments
Episode Stats
Length
1 hour and 8 minutes
Harmful content
Misogyny
30
sentences flagged
Toxicity
3
sentences flagged
Hate speech
55
sentences flagged
Summary
Forget the War on Christmas, it's the war on Father's Day that we've got to pay attention to. Dr. Al Mohler is here to clarify what is the function of a pastor that a woman cannot fulfill. Also, did he really say he doesn't believe in female Christian podcasters? Also, at the end of this episode we ve got some lifestyle pitter patter about what you should and should not ever say to a pregnant woman.
Transcript
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It's the war on Father's Day that we've got to pay attention to.
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Also, Dr. Al Mohler is here to clarify what is the function of a pastor that a woman cannot
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Also, did he really say he doesn't believe in female Christian podcasters?
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Also, at the end of this, we've got some lifestyle pitter patter.
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Here's what you should and should not ever say to a pregnant woman.
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This episode is brought to you by our friends at Good Ranchers.
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That's good ranchers.com code alley. Hey guys, welcome to relatable happy Wednesday. Hope
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everyone has, uh, is having a wonderful week and has had a wonderful week. So far, we got a lot to
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talk about today. I first want to cover this war on father's day that is going on. And look,
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I haven't talked about the war on Christmas and some of the paranoid things that Christians
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are accused of caring about, but truly, blatantly, grossly, there really is a battle against
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Not only about our culture's perspective on the family, which we already know is completely
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degraded, but also just our view on the Imago Dei, our view on the authority of all things,
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the creator of all things. It really is that deep, y'all. It really is that deep. So we'll get into
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that. As you can see, I'm in a remote setup. I will be for the next couple episodes. Next week
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will be a little bit different. We'll have a Monday, Wednesday episode. Then for the 4th of
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July, we will not be having an episode next Friday. And then the next week we're taking
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off for recording. So it's a vacation week for the relatable team. And we might be putting out
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some interviews that you haven't heard before that we have stocked up, or we might be doing
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some replays but just fyi what's coming down the pipeline in the next couple weeks also if you
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haven't gotten your share the arrows tickets women we are expecting probably um if the lord
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wills to sell out but looking at the numbers now we are so far ahead of where we were this time
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last year by orders of magnitude and so we have a 7 000 person limit and if you have not gotten
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your tickets yet, I really do encourage you, go ahead and get them. Bring your small group,
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bring your mother-in-law, bring your mom, bring your sisters, bring your friends,
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whether you're a Christian or you're a skeptic, if you've never been to a Christian women's
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conference, or if that is like your thing, this is going to be different for you. You're going
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to love it. You're going to feel refreshed. You're going to leave with lifelong friends.
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It's going to be hard hitting gospel centered. And so at a fine, if you go to share the arrows.com,
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You can get your tickets today. That's on October 10th in Dallas, Texas. Shane and Shane leading
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worship. We've got Alisa Childers. We've got Rosaria Butterfield. We've got Kosti Hinn,
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a whole group of incredible speakers that I cannot wait for you to hear from. It's brought
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to you by our friends at We Heart Nutrition this year. So go to sharethearrows.com, get your tickets
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today. All right. Let's look at what the New York Times decided to publish this weekend of all
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weekend of all things. Now, as I read you this headline, you might be thinking, really, in the
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year of our Lord, 2026, this is what the New York Times is talking about. I thought we were over this
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madness. I thought we realized and successfully stigmatized roping kids into being sources of
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affirmation for gender delusion. But apparently there's the expiration date on that has not come
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to pass, at least for the New York Times. So just let me read to you what their most circulated
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story was from this weekend that apparently was supposed to celebrate Father's Day. To my daughter,
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the headline says, my gender was never complicated. Now, if you didn't pick up on this, this is a woman
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who has quote unquote transitioned into being a man. And I say quote unquote because it's not
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actually possible. You can't change your DNA. That was already determined at conception,
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but you can tragically take off your breasts. You can inject yourself with synthetic hormones,
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which are not good for your body at all. And you can present yourself as a man and you can
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convince your children that the mother that they have is actually a father. And because children
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are hardwired to please our parents and to make sense of the world that they are in, because
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they're so vulnerable and they have to orient themselves to make themselves feel safe and
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secure, that child will probably affirm, um, affirm whatever the parent wants.
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And it's filled with these like comic weird animations.
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Like you've seen this, this is like the progressive calling card.
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I don't know why they use this kind of animation, but you can see we've got what is supposed
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to look like a father and a daughter it's the kind of cartoon if you're just uh listening to
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this that all of the limbs are really fat and the heads are really tiny and everyone kind of looks
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gender neutral it's aesthetically objectively very ugly art which progressivism ends up devolving
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into ugliness anyway that's just what happens when you deny truth um so you can see here here's one
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of the comic strip things, I guess, if you can call it that. So the top says they kids can move
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between complex topics. And then the text bubble or the word bubble says, how long did you have
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breasts for dad? What a tragic, tragic line for a child to utter. The daughter is later shown at
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school with friends where a friend says, you can't grow a beard. You're a girl. And the daughter
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responds my dad did and he was a girl and these children are like hanging from monkey bars and
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this is supposed to prove that this is super simple or maybe it proves that it is so delusional
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that a child who still believes that there is a fat man that can circle the universe in one night
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fit down their chimney and put presents under the tree like that they believe it because they
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believe all kinds of fantastical things. It doesn't actually speak to some kind of transcendent
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truth just because a child believes it. So this entire article is about a woman trying to convince
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her daughter that she is really a man and that she is really a dad, which is really the opposite
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of what fatherhood is because fatherhood requires sacrifice. It's about putting your needs and your
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wants in subjection to what your child actually needs. And so you are sacrificing certainly your
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delusions, your most carnal desires, um, in order to serve your children well. And this woman can't
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do that because she will never be a dad. And this is what the New York times chooses to highlight
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on father's day, someone who is not a father and who can never be a father and hoisting this person
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up is actually the pinnacle of fatherhood. It's just meant to be subversive. It's meant to be as
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far from actual healthy fatherhood and masculinity as possible. And that's really the point. It's
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really a humiliation ritual for men. It's really a belittling, condescending practice that is
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trying to say, look, like men aren't really that important. Fathers are completely replaceable.
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nothing that is innate within you is something that a child needs or that this world needs.
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You can don it like a costume and you can, you know, force it into your children and say that
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it's some kind of spiritual affirmation of who you're supposed to be. Um, it really is just like
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saying two plus two equals five. It's satanic goes all the way back to the beginning. All right.
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the new york times also has a podcast and in their daily podcast they did a father's day episode
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and it was called can a bad man be a good father uh in the interview uh janeau describes discovering
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his father's collection of extreme porn and his father's romantic and sexual relationships with
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women he met while selling handbags all while married here's that saw two the thing about my
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dad was he presented himself in a very forthrightly sexual way and it wasn't like that was simply for
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show my father had an affair with my first friend's mother when i was three years old
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and i knew it you knew it i knew it somehow somehow i knew that something was was wrong
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something was off something that made my mom unhappy okay so in this not highlighting a good
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father i mean from what i could tell this is the this is the only episode they had honoring
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fatherhood it's an interesting question can a bad man be a good dad like i think of tony soprano
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There are certainly moments when he was, I guess, a loving father to his kids.
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We are presenting something or we're being presented by the New York Times with this
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thing that you think is really bad or really awful or stigmatized.
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look, there's a lot of things that men can get. There's a lot of issues that should be highlighted
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for the sake of men. Can like, you just let us have this one. Can women have the postpartum
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depression? Can we just hold on to that one? There's another one, the pain of caring for a
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parent who abused you. Um, so again, highlighting abusive parents, that's not to say it's not
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important to talk about that or to talk about people's experiences and having these very
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complicated and bad parents. It's fine to have those conversations, but I would like to see
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among that some positive stories of what a great impact the dad, your dad had on you,
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how present he was, how much he loved you, how much he cheered you on and how that shaped you
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for the rest of your life. But we don't see any unapologetically positive stories about dad
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from the New York times. Here's another one that I just find terrible. These are all in 2026. Okay.
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So these are all leading up to father's day. This is the, the road to father's day was paved
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with all of these stories about bad dads. My father's death. This is a New York times article
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was the start of my life. It was written by a woman who gives an account of her relationship
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with her emotionally absent father and credits his death with understanding her own mortality.
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All right. So again, just subversive. It's kind of like that book by Jeanette McCurdy,
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which actually was a really interesting and compelling book, but the title was I'm Glad My Mom
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Died. Okay, that's on her own personal story. I'm not saying that's a bad title. It's an interesting
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title and a very interesting story of her life. But again, the New York Times is only going to
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highlight things like this of, oh, your dad's death was a good thing because he was bad.
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There was also this piece and the Toronto Star, a modest proposal, why it's time to abolish
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Father's Day. It claims that the holiday puts an undue burden on kids to scramble to buy
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useless gifts. Now, this is a little bit of bait and switch. It's a little bit of clickbait
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because the author claims like the real gift is quality time. OK, so if your problem is
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materialism, that's one thing or you just think it's, you know, a made up reason to buy Hallmark
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cards. That's fine. But the title, we need to abolish Father's Day or we need to abolish
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Mother's Day. Another thing that I've heard in the past done due to some undue burden that's
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just perpetuating this idea that celebrating fathers and positive fatherhood is not something
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that we need to do. It's just excessive and even oppressive in some ways. And then if you'll
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remember Mother's Day, we've had this conversation for the past two years. Why does it seem like
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Mother's Day is a day that requires so much coddling from companies. It's not that trauma
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around your experience with your mom is not legitimate, or if you lost your mom, that you
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shouldn't be sad about it, or that it's not a sensitive day. It just seems like these companies
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go out of their way to say, you know what? Anyone can be a mom, no matter what kind of mothering
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you take on. It's all the same validity. It's all the same importance. And then also you can opt out
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of seeing any kind of celebration of motherhood whatsoever, not trying to be insensitive to the
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real pain that you can carry when it comes to bad experiences with your mom or dad, but also like
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at some point we just need to say, take my feelings out of it, my experiences out of it.
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That's my responsibility. I'll do what I have to do to protect myself that day or work through
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those feelings or heal. But the more important thing is that in general, mothers and fathers
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need to be celebrated. At the very least, these roles need to be celebrated. There's this article
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in PopSugar, no Mother's Day isn't just about mothers. And here's why. Instead of having the
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day revolve around only mothers, we should celebrate the many fantastic roles all women
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out there have. So minimizing the importance of motherhood and being the giver and the nurturer
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of life by saying it's basically the same as working at a marketing company. It's basically
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the same as planting flowers. Those things can be good and they can glorify God, but they're not the
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same as motherhood. Last year in a New York Times op-ed titled My Mother and I Bond Over Ignoring
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Mother's Day, the author celebrates the fact that she and her mother neglected the holiday
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despite big florists. All right. In May 2017, the Washington Post ran the headline,
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for some gay parents, Mother's Day or Father's Day is awkward. So again, centering the subversive
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or transgressive aspects of our society on a day that's supposed to celebrate the institution that
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has existed since the beginning of time. A Time magazine piece about Mother's Day a few years ago
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wanted to refocus the holiday not on women who have children, but on women being able to kill
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their children. Not joking. Aubrey Hirsch's article was titled, Flowers and Cards Are Nice.
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I'd Rather Have Bodily Autonomy. She wrote that it's the first Mother's Day since Roe was overturned.
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So again, I think this was 2023 it would have been. Why is this a problem? This is having serious
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effects on the lives of people who can become pregnant. People who can become pregnant. That's
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not just moms, according to Time Magazine. Research by the Society for Family Planning
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shows a sharp drop in the number of abortions in the six months after Roe v. Wade was overturned,
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suggesting that many people who might have otherwise terminated a pregnancy,
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another euphemism there, killed their child, could not legally do so. So what's most important,
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according to this article in Time Magazine, on a day celebrating the fact that only women can
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get pregnant, only women can bear life, only women can mother, is that one, anyone can be a mom,
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girl or boy, mom or dad, or man or woman, and that the real pinnacle of purpose and motherhood
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is the ability to legally kill the baby inside your world. How saddamic is that? In 2020,
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Psychology Today, a journalist there or a writer there argued that society should abolish Mother's
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Day altogether. Mother's Day is an unfair holiday to push upon the world, an unjust holiday to force
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upon people who have lost their mothers, lost a child, hate their mothers, hate their children,
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want to be a mother, but can't don't want to be a mother and are societally shamed for it.
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Thought they wanted to be a mother and realize, whoops, that was a mistake. Okay. These days
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are not meant to cater to every single subsection of society or every single person's trauma or
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emotions. That's not what these days are for. We are so unable to read something or to see
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something and say that is true, or that is good in principle, even if it doesn't apply to me.
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And this is not just true of the secular world. I see this every day online. Someone says something
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that is generally true, or even puts a million caveats on what they're saying and says, you know,
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this is what I believe. And I think that in principle, this is right. You'll get a million
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comments from people saying why their situation is the exception to the rule that person just
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articulated. That is a narcissistic me centered way of consuming information in the world.
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like i like to say on social media if it's not about you it's not about you if what someone is
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saying doesn't apply to you then it's not about you and actually you will conserve a lot of your
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energy that is much better channeled towards other people or channeled towards your own joy
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and fulfillment if you don't exhaust it trying to explain away why one person's celebration or one
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person's observation isn't applicable to your specific situation like you know we talk a lot
00:19:12.020
about therapy culture and how therapy culture has kind of infected the church in some ways and
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infected different parts of society but it's like people believe that everywhere is therapy that
00:19:24.480
every person is their therapist and they just are dying to be understood in the most minute way
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That's actually not a great way to live. And I blame like which Disney princess are you quizzes,
00:19:36.200
the personality test that we were all required to take in high school and college and not say
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that there's no benefit to understanding yourself, but it comes like it comes with limitations,
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with parameters. Like eventually you just have to de-center yourself and realize the world and
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mother's day and father's day and Christmas and all of these things that might make you sad.
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they aren't about you. And it also just speaks to our need for a savior, our need for like a source
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of joy, a source of purpose that is transcendent, that is outside of ourselves. I think it's
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exchanging the God of scripture for the God of self. When you worship the God of self,
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you see everything through the lens of the God of self, and it really steals your joy.
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Everything becomes about victimizing you and slighting you. And that is a way to live that
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will impede your happiness. Ironically, because these are the people who claim to always be
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pursuing their happiness and doing what makes them feel good. Um, all right, we'll get into
00:20:36.700
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Allie. So secular leftism, and I would just say leftism in general. I don't even know if it needs
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a modifier, but secularism, leftism typically go hand in hand. It really is just a rejection of
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not only the created order and a rejection of things that have worked, a rejection of things
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that are true and good and natural, but also a rejection of the creator of those things.
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And so if you want to know, like, why would you do this? Why are you trying to be so transgressive?
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Why are you trying to undermine what clearly has brought stability to every society and
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all of time, designations of male and female, the necessity of mom and dad, the strength
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of a cohesive nuclear family with mom and dad and children all living under the same
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Why would you want to undermine something that works so well?
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Because everything is about rejecting the creator.
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everything is about worshiping the creature and worshiping the self and worshiping and following
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carnal desires. We've seen that in every society that has existed for all of time. When you try
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to define nature, when you try to defy God's moral truth, chaos ensues, sexual chaos, which
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always ends in the victimization of children, societal chaos and corruption. Go back and listen
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to the episode that I did with Seth Gruber, and he talks about the history of this and
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how societies that embrace this kind of sexual confusion and depravity, especially once it
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is institutionalized, commercialized, normalized, glorified, seen as good, that nation typically
00:23:30.320
only has about 90 more years of survival and the clock is ticking for us.
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And so go back, listen to that episode because super insightful.
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The beautiful thing is for Christians, this doesn't have to be complicated.
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And in a world where I think a lot of people, especially children, as we saw in that first
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New York Times article, they're searching for clarity.
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It's not that gender confusion and depravity is good and normal and right to them.
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So the reason that they simplify these very weird, complex things like, oh, a woman became
00:24:07.280
a man and a mom became a dad is because they're seeking truth.
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And Christians have this wonderful privilege and honor.
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And not only that, but this responsibility to say it actually is really easy.
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Not only is the science straightforward and easy, XX and XY, and the anomalies that exist
00:24:28.940
within that, just point to the fall and the fact that nothing is perfect on this side of heaven,
00:24:34.000
but it doesn't negate the rule. The exceptions don't rewrite the rule of XX and XY, but
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theologically it's clear. Like it was so clear and so fundamental that God put it in the very
00:24:45.200
first chapter of the first book of the Bible that we are made in his image, male and female.
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That means somehow kind of mysteriously, since God himself is not actually in a gendered body,
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that to be made male and female is to be made in God's image and to be made in God's image is to
00:25:02.580
be made male and female. That's what Genesis one 27 tells us. It's like, God was like, you don't
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even have to read 30 verses before I tell you what's up. Y'all are going to be so confused
00:25:11.100
about this. And if you end up denying Genesis one 27, when it comes to marriage, when it comes to
00:25:17.180
gender, when it comes to the existence of that institution to create and to protect children and
00:25:24.520
to be the building block of society, you're going to end up messing up everything else, too. It's a
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00:25:29.500
trickle-down effect. And this is true whether you are a secular society, whether you're a Buddhist
00:25:34.000
society, or whether you're a Christian society. But specifically within Christianity, you absolutely
00:25:40.400
see that once you deny Genesis 1.27, that person almost always ends up denying John 14.6. When
00:25:48.540
Jesus says, I am the way, the truth, the life. No one comes to the father except through me.
00:25:54.840
That just ends up being the theological direction that people go in. Because if you are denying the
00:26:03.580
authority of the creator when it comes to biology, then of course you're going to deny the authority
00:26:09.780
of the savior when it comes to salvation. Why would you accept one that takes a lot more faith
00:26:16.160
than seeing the reality of the biological distinction between male and female.
00:26:22.440
You know, in talking about this whole thing about female pastors, which we're about to
00:26:26.700
talk about more in a second, when we talked to Al Mohler, my brother texted me something
00:26:31.600
that I hadn't thought about when I was talking about this on, on Monday, we were talking
00:26:37.460
about what the Bible actually says, what this first Timothy passage, um, means when it's
00:26:43.600
talking about, Hey, women aren't supposed to be exercising authority over men in the local church.
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They're not supposed to be pastors. They're not supposed to be preaching and teaching to men.
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He says, my brother, Paul gives Timothy at first Timothy one, eight, uh, 18 through 20,
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one of the reasons why there shouldn't be a woman in this type of role. He tells Timothy that others
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who have not followed the instructions that he gives, uh, in the chapters that follow have
00:27:09.540
shipwrecked their faith. This issue is no small issue. It wasn't to Paul and it shouldn't be to
00:27:15.220
us. And isn't that so true that when you see Christians start saying, well, you know, I just
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don't agree with that part of scripture. And I actually think that it's okay for a woman to
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become a pastor or whatever it is. Eventually they fall away in other ways too. I'm not saying
00:27:31.920
every single time. I'm not saying that's 100% a rule, but Paul is saying, Hey, people who haven't
00:27:37.620
followed these instructions, which have been given to me by the Holy Spirit, they have ended up
00:27:42.480
walking away from the faith that they thought saved them. That's really scary. That's a really
00:27:47.380
big deal. And I hadn't really connected that previous verse to the verses later about women
00:27:52.380
not exercising authority over men in the church. So if denying the gender differences within the
00:27:59.680
church leads to chaos, I mean, just imagine how much bigger the consequences are when it comes
00:28:05.460
to society in general. When we look at how this actually manifests itself in legislation,
00:28:11.580
one thing that comes to mind is this effort by New York lawmakers to remove any gendered language
00:28:18.000
from state family law, replacing terms like mother and father with gestating parent and
00:28:23.480
non-gestating parent. See, the funny thing is, is that these progressives who simultaneously will
00:28:28.800
be like women are so much more than wombs. They're so much more than just their bodies.
00:28:34.380
They're so much more than just mothers. Well, they've now reduced us to our ability to have
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kids or not. That's all that means. Gestating and non-gestating, which I actually think
00:28:46.820
goes to the biological brass tacks even more than the terms women, men, mother, father.
00:28:54.180
Okay. Gestating parent, non-gestating parent. The bill is now on Governor Kathy Hochul's desk
00:28:59.200
awaiting her signature or veto. This is what happens. You know, we talk a lot about people
00:29:04.180
who try to out nice God or out love God or out mercy God by disagreeing with him saying, oh,
00:29:09.720
his dictates when it comes to sexuality and sin, those are just too harsh. I think I can out mercy
00:29:15.920
him and out compassion him. So let me try that and kind of apologize for God. Can't do that.
00:29:20.760
God is love. First John four, eight people also try to outsmart God. Like, Ooh, what newfangled
00:29:25.840
language can I use? What euphemisms can I use to try to deny this very blatant reality and
00:29:32.100
reconstruct society in our image. You know, they tried to do something like that with the Tower of
00:29:37.860
Babel and God confused them. And I see a lot of the reflections of that story in our world today
00:29:44.360
that we are starting to use language that people don't even understand within the same country.
00:29:49.780
And not because of a different in accents or a different in dialects or a difference even in
00:29:58.760
our original primary languages. But because of a difference in belief system, we don't even have
00:30:04.820
the same language anymore. It's interesting. As G.K. Chesterton observed, the men and women who,
00:30:11.420
for good reasons and bad, revolt against the family are, for good reasons and bad,
00:30:15.620
simply revolting against mankind. And that is absolutely true. When you look at the stats on
00:30:22.580
fatherlessness, it is absolutely undeniable that God knew what he was doing when he created this
00:30:29.380
institution, when he made Adam our first father, when he calls himself our father. We don't have
00:30:35.160
as many statistics on motherlessness because it's a cultural anomaly. In the history of the world,
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it's pretty new, this phenomenon of children being raised motherless. And why it's happening
00:30:47.740
is not because suddenly moms are denying their maternal instinct and they're no longer raising
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00:30:52.380
their children. Of course, that happens in a way through abortion, but children being born and
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00:30:57.960
abandoned by their moms, it's much rarer than children being born and abandoned by their
00:31:03.940
fathers. But we are re-engineering society by allowing two men to buy eggs and rent wombs
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and create these children and steal the children away from their mother and away from their
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gestator and to raise them motherless. I mean, it's cruel. We talk about that all the time.
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we don't have the statistics on that. We probably will never have all of the statistics on that
00:31:25.860
because it's politically incorrect. So about one in four children in America don't have a father
00:31:32.420
in the home. One in four. And the number of children living only with their mother has
00:31:37.040
doubled in the past 50 years. Black Americans hit absolutely the hardest. I think it's about
00:31:42.920
70% of black children do not have a present father in their home. Historically, around 70%
00:31:48.720
of incarcerated youths didn't live with both parents while growing up. According to an NIH
00:31:54.620
study, children without fathers had poor social emotional adjustment and worse adult mental health.
00:31:59.620
One study of juvenile delinquents found that 66%, two thirds had experienced fatherlessness. Okay.
00:32:06.500
This is true about sexual promiscuity, teen pregnancy. This is true about eating disorders,
00:32:11.540
anxiety, likelihood of poverty. All of those things go up when you don't have a present
00:32:16.460
father in the home. Not a perfect father, but a present father. On the hopeful side, the fathers
00:32:21.680
who are present are much more involved than they used to be. And a study from April, economic
00:32:25.620
analyst Aziz Sundarji outlined how modern dads spend far more time actively raising their children
00:32:32.520
than previous generations. I mean, this is true. We've all seen this. We've all experienced this
00:32:37.160
with our husbands. Fathers today spend more time caring for their children than fathers did 50
00:32:41.620
years ago, millennial dads do four times more childcare than boomer dads did. Now, some of that
00:32:46.760
is probably because women are working outside of the home more, and that doesn't have a positive
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00:32:52.820
impact when all of these women are outsourcing their care to daycare centers. But we're talking
00:32:58.900
about present dads. We're not just talking about outsourcing care to strangers. And dads being more
00:33:04.880
present and doing more things with their kids is a good thing. Dads who spend more time caring for
00:33:09.340
their children report higher levels of happiness. Today, fathers prefer to care for their kids
00:33:13.760
more than watching TV. That is wonderful. That's not something that you expected to see. I do think
00:33:19.600
COVID had a lot of negative impacts, especially when it came to child abuse and things like that.
00:33:24.720
But for the dads who have been able to work from home and really be with their kids and spend time
00:33:30.920
with their kids for the past six plus years, they're like, yeah, this is amazing. I get a
00:33:35.240
front row seat to the best show ever. And that is seeing all of these little moments that dads in
00:33:40.720
the past have historically had to miss, or in some cases have chosen to miss. Psalm 103, 13 says,
00:33:48.040
as a father shows compassion to his children, so the Lord shows compassion to those who fear him.
00:33:52.560
For what son is there whom his father does not discipline? He disciplines us for our good that
00:33:57.460
we may share in his holiness. Hebrews 12, talking about a father disciplining his children because
00:34:03.460
he loves them and God disciplining us because he loves us over and over again. We see that
00:34:09.020
a father's love is opposed to reflect God's love for us. Parents are to train up their children
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with godly instruction, train up a child in the way he should go. Even when he is old,
00:34:19.920
he will not depart from it. That is a principle. Obviously that is not always true, but Proverbs
00:34:25.800
is filled with principles that it's better to do it this way because it's more likely to lead to
00:34:29.760
this outcome. That's Proverbs 22, 6. Hear my son, your father's instruction and forsake not your
00:34:35.940
mother's teaching. So both mother and father there. It's not that parenting is only a mom's job.
00:34:41.140
It's both of your jobs. You do different things in different ways, in necessary ways, but both
00:34:47.080
the teaching of the mom and the father's instruction is necessary for they are graceful garland for
00:34:53.040
your head. Proverbs 1, 8 through 9. My son, keep your father's commandment and forsake not your
00:34:58.640
mother's teaching. That's Proverbs 6, 20. And what we also read in Ephesians 5 through 6,
00:35:05.320
typically what the secularists, what the subversives will point out is only that Ephesians
00:35:10.560
5 verse that we've talked about so much. Oh, wives submit to your husbands. Oh, how oppressive,
00:35:14.300
how awful. Well, that would have been very normal at the time. Women were seen as submissive. They
00:35:20.040
were seen as in a submissive and a lesser role in many of these secular and pagan societies,
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even in societies where they're worshiping female deities, in practice, women were not seen as full
00:35:33.180
people. And so this idea of a woman submitting to her husband wouldn't have been radical. What was
00:35:37.960
radical is that husbands had to love their wives as wives loved the church. It wouldn't have been
00:35:42.600
radical for in Ephesians 6, Paul to say, hey, children obey your parents. Yeah, of course they
00:35:47.500
were supposed to. What would have been radical was the parameter and the rule of the chastisement
00:35:52.020
given to fathers. Fathers, do not provoke your children to anger, but bring them up in the
00:35:58.100
discipline and the instruction of the Lord. Don't provoke your children to anger. That is a parameter
00:36:06.280
for the dad. This was a time where men really weren't given these kind of authority structures
00:36:13.620
besides the government, besides by people more powerful than them, to treat those weaker than
00:36:22.360
them with dignity and with grace and with love and with gentleness. Colossians 3.21 also echoes
00:36:28.540
this. Fathers, do not provoke your children lest they become discouraged. That's because the
00:36:33.980
father's word and the father's discipline and the father's instruction, his actions, his disposition,
00:36:38.920
his mood, his facial expression has a huge effect on children. Again, not looking for perfect
00:36:45.780
fathers or perfect mothers, but present ones, loving ones. That is why it is so important for
00:36:50.540
moms and dads to submit themselves to the Lord because we can't do it on our own. On our own,
00:36:56.040
we become these crazy New York Times headlines that are denigrating fatherhood and motherhood.
00:37:01.640
We become very confused. We become very selfish. We become very angry. We become very overstimulated
00:37:08.100
and we excuse ourselves for all kinds of failures as people and as parents. We need the Lord and we
00:37:13.320
need his grace. And gosh, this country does too, because we are very confused about very
00:37:17.180
fundamental things. You can't outsmart God. You can't out kind him. You can't out wisdom him.
00:37:23.740
You can't out science him. He created all of it. And the most loving thing that we can do as
00:37:28.620
Christians, if we believe God's ways are better, if we believe he is love is to be agents of this
00:37:34.100
clarity in a world of chaos, to push back against the darkness, forced motherlessness and
00:37:39.020
fatherlessness, the denigration of fathers and mothers started in our own homes, how we treat
00:37:43.800
our spouses, how we talk about marriage, how we talk about children, how we talk to our children.
0.99
00:37:49.220
That is true. If you're single, you got a bunch of single friends in your Bible study who don't
00:37:54.700
like the idea of children or get easily annoyed or have feminist mentalities about getting married
00:38:02.160
and having godly marriages, maybe you're the voice of truth in that group or at work with
00:38:07.400
your friends, with your family, whatever it is, you can be an agent of clarity in this world of
00:38:11.820
chaos. And God does great things through that obedience, even if it seems small right now.
00:38:17.820
All right. Speaking of the truth about gender roles and how this matters within the church,
00:38:23.260
I want to talk to the author of this constitutional amendment that is still up for a vote next year
00:38:29.380
in the Southern Baptist convention, Dr. Al Mohler, about what actually went down and why
00:38:35.680
it matters. It'll be a short conversation. Then we'll have some lifestyle pitter patter about
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pregnancy at the end. But before we get there, let me pause, tell you about our next sponsor
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Dr. Muller, thanks so much for joining us again.
00:40:13.620
You know, one of the questions that I've gotten is we've talked about your truth and unity amendment, even from people who agree with us about this role of pastors being exclusive to men, as outlined so clearly in scripture, is what exactly the word function means in this constitutional amendment.
00:40:33.920
Yes to office, but some people seem to be worried that the word function will be too all encompassing.
00:40:43.200
And so can you clarify, like, what is meant by that?
00:40:46.280
What would qualify as a woman occupying the function of pastor in a way that is unbiblical?
00:40:54.000
Well, you know, when the language is seen in what the SPC has taken the first step to adopt,
00:41:00.420
it says function specifically preaching to the gathered assembly.
00:41:06.240
So this goes back, Allie Beth, and it's so good to be with you.
00:41:09.900
It goes back to historic Baptist confessions, and in particular, it goes back to 1689.
00:41:15.300
So, of course, you know, I want it to be the most classic Baptist language,
00:41:23.480
And that confession makes very clear that the pastoral role is both an office and a function.
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It's because right there in the state of Texas, you have had churches that have had women
00:41:36.820
preaching on Sunday morning and not called them pastors.
00:41:39.900
So if we don't say that that specific function is reserved, according to Scripture, to men
00:41:45.300
as qualified by Scripture, then we basically are leaving a barn door open.
00:41:51.860
And so, in other words, the entire office of pastor, overseer, elder, is reserved for
00:42:01.140
men as qualified, not for all men, but men as qualified by Scripture.
00:42:04.060
And the function, the specific function of preaching to the gathered assembly is reserved
00:42:09.900
does that make sense? Yes, it totally makes sense. And if you don't put function in,
00:42:16.040
then you could have people who say, well, she's not called a pastor. She's not called an elder.
00:42:21.120
She's not called an overseer. But if she's preaching to the gathered assembly, that's
00:42:25.800
what the pastor is to do. You know, this conversation kind of got lumped in with
00:42:33.840
a, an answer that you gave on your podcast to a woman who had written in asking, what about a
00:42:41.300
woman in our church who doesn't occupy the office of the pastor, but she is answering questions
00:42:47.840
about the sermon on a church podcast. I remember I got some messages about this from some people
00:42:54.880
saying, oh my goodness, can you believe this podcast? And I listened to it and I was like,
00:42:59.220
that's it. That's what people are worried about. Your answer to that seemed very clear and very
00:43:04.620
limited to the situation that this woman had asked about. But could you talk about that a little bit
00:43:09.380
more? Maybe expound upon that. Why in this situation is a woman that's a member of a church
00:43:14.280
expounding upon a sermon for the church? Why would that be considered something that is outside of a
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woman's authority in the local body? Well, let me say, first of all, I really appreciate you
00:43:26.960
bringing this up, and I can also say that you can teach an old dog new tricks. I did not see
00:43:33.480
the timing coming between that particular question and the SVC action. There was no premeditation
00:43:40.000
there. But the bottom line is that the woman who wrote the question, it was a woman who sent in
00:43:45.320
the question. She was troubled because this was presented as an explicit extension of the preaching
00:43:52.140
ministry of the church. So in other words, it was an incredibly specific context. And so I just
00:43:57.820
wanted to answer, if you set the context as the continuation of the sermon, more or less,
00:44:03.900
well, then you, I'm just going to say, obviously, I wasn't speaking to Christian women doing
00:44:08.900
podcasting. Otherwise, I wouldn't be so glad to be with you today and so thankful for you.
00:44:13.260
That's not at all what I was talking about. It was a specific situation. And yeah, I stand by
00:44:20.780
my answer. Because if you're going to say to me, this is a continuation of the church's preaching
00:44:25.640
ministry, that's what it's presented as, well, you just answered your own question. I don't think
00:44:30.600
that's what's taking place in most podcasts. And by the way, I don't think there's anything wrong
00:44:35.200
with a woman in particular, you know, responding to a sermon. But it was clearly in what was
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understood to be something of an official teaching role. So, you know, usually when you have a
00:44:48.440
question like that, the answer is implicit in the question. So I hope I have clarified and not
00:44:56.060
further confused the situation. If you're going to say that what we're doing on this podcast is
00:45:01.320
continuing the preaching ministry of the church, you just answered your own question. I'm clearly
00:45:05.480
not talking about women on Christian podcasts. That was not even in my imagination when that's
00:45:13.300
how the question came. It was very clear in the context of the question, in the context of your
00:45:19.000
answer, that you were talking specifically about this woman's question. And to me, it was very
00:45:25.720
clear that you didn't go beyond that in that answer. And if that was something that you
00:45:29.760
believed about podcasts in general or about Christian women in general, I don't think that
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00:45:33.780
you would be afraid to say it. But you were very specific in your answer. But as things go, things
00:45:38.580
change and morph on social media, all different kinds of things end up happening. And yeah,
00:45:43.200
the timing, the timing was interesting. It got kind of lumped into the whole conversation about
00:45:48.660
women preaching and pastors and about this specific constitutional amendment. Reiterate to us again,
00:45:57.440
why it is important that it's not just what we read in the Baptist faith and message,
00:46:02.940
which is very clear from 2000, that only women are supposed to be pastors,
00:46:06.760
but that this actually becomes a constitutional amendment.
00:46:10.940
Well, the Baptist faith and message statement is very clear that the office of pastor is limited
00:46:15.780
to men as qualified by scripture. So again, it's not all men. What the New Testament reveals is
00:46:20.160
those particular men called to fulfill these roles, but not women. And that's in the sovereignty of
00:46:25.880
God. I think the vast, and I do mean capital letters, vast majority of Southern Baptists
00:46:33.220
are absolutely clear on this, and their churches are clear, and in right order, and in right
00:46:37.720
doctrine. The issue, though, is that the Southern Baptist Convention is an assembly, and you have
00:46:44.220
people from thousands and thousands of churches. And honestly, in any large group, you've got to
00:46:50.100
be clear about how this is applied. And so, you know, Allie Beth, 30 plus years ago, the Southern
00:46:56.240
Baptist Convention was confronted with the real challenge of the LGBTQ revolution. And so the
00:47:02.160
Southern Baptist Convention more than 30 years ago just put in the Constitution a definition of
00:47:07.280
a church in friendly cooperation with the SBC as one that takes no step to affirm or to legitimize
00:47:14.800
or in any way make a positive statement about LGBTQ issues, behaviors, relationships, etc.
00:47:21.560
I just want to tell you that that was not only right, it was necessary, and it has been incredibly
00:47:26.920
efficient for the SBC. There has not been a debate on the floor over these issues at the Southern
00:47:32.500
Baptist Convention for more than 30 years, and I think that's a tremendous achievement. That is
00:47:38.060
exactly the achievement I want through this constitutional amendment so that the issue
00:47:42.260
on the role of pastors and in men serving as pastors, that that is a constitutional issue
00:47:49.980
so that it should free the SBC from having to deal with this on the floor every year.
00:47:56.920
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a special matching grant. That's join ADF.com slash Allie. One thing that has surprised me
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And some of the pushback that I've seen is that it doesn't just come from progressives, those who deny the reality of gender altogether.
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I've seen some people that are politically conservative, even in some ways, theologically conservative, really push back against this, push back against the entire idea that women can't be pastors.
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and they'll appeal to some form of scripture and they'll say that these commands against women
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preaching in the church that they had to do with something extremely culturally specific at the
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time that it's not a general principle or a general regulation for the local body and these
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are people like i said who are conservative in many ways but when it comes to this have a very
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progressive interpretation of scripture you know don't end up following the rest of the verse
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which actually goes all the way back to creation for the reasoning why women should be exercising
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authority over men in the church. I'm sure you've seen lots and lots of arguments like this
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for decades. They're not really new. But what is your response for pastors even who say,
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you know what, that's just because women were yelling at the time. It was specific
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disorderly context in that culture has nothing to do with today.
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Allie, Beth, I so appreciate the question and the two dimensions of it you ask. And so let me go
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first to the explicit biblical text. And here's where we have both a positive and a negative.
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So we have in Scripture very clear setting out of the office of pastor. So think of 1 Timothy
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chapter 3, Titus chapters 1 and 2, and look at this, and you'll see that there's the positive
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statement, the objectively, just absolutely crystal clear statement of the men who are
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qualified for these posts, and with extended biblical text. But you also have very clear
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text, and you make reference to it. You know, for instance, the Apostle Paul, he doesn't just
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ground this in a local church problem. As you rightly said, and this is so key, he grounds it
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in creation order. So in other words, he makes the point this is not an episodic, particular,
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eccentric local church issue. This is a creation order issue, which is to be reflected in the
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order of the church. There's a second dimension in this I want to mention, and I've been at this
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for a very long time, and I will just tell you, and I will stake my reputation on this.
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The way of interpreting the Scripture that is necessary in order to get around those very
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clear texts limiting the teaching office to men. There are all kinds of, I would say,
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liberal mechanisms to try to get out of that problem. They're the same mechanisms that
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authorize LGBTQ issues in direct violation of Scripture. And so I'll just tell you, you look
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historically at the denominations that have moved to affirm the ordination of women.
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And I overwhelmingly, they're the dominations that one generation later approves the LGBTQ
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And it is because the pattern of biblical interpretation of getting around the text
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in order to meet a cultural end, that is a parallel process.
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And I know it infuriates some people for me to say that, but I'm sorry, we've got decades
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of experience to know that that's exactly what has happened.
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And I think there are some people who just don't like saying no. And so I'm just being blunt here.
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They just don't like saying no. But I think we need to recognize the scripture often just says
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no. Even in the Ten Commandments, you shall and you shall not. Obedience includes the shall nots
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as well as the thou shalls. Yeah. Gosh, that's absolutely true. And it all comes down also
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to how we read scripture. Do you read scripture thinking, what can I get away with? How can I
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finagle this in a way that is going to allow me to ultimately do what I want to do? You could do
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that for a very long time and find all kinds of seeming permission slips if your goal in life is
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just to follow what you want to follow. If that's the case, then Christianity isn't for you. It's
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not for any of us who want to do that. But if we read scripture, which it's a process,
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sanctification is a process of reading scripture like this as much as we possibly can, but asking
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the question, how can I glorify God the most? How can I do the holiest thing? Not just what is God
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telling me not to do, but what is God telling me to do? Then that actually, you know, some people
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see that as restrictive. It's actually the most freeing thing that you can do. And I think it's
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the best and the safest way to regard scripture. Otherwise we play a game of trying to figure out
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No, Allie, Beth, I think that's exactly right, and I appreciate the very gracious but clear
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Let me also just say, you know, this past Lord's Day was at our church, Third Avenue
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Baptist Church in Louisville, Kentucky, sitting with my wife in worship and with this wonderful
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congregation, and we're looking around, and what we see is a recapitulation of creation
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order, and it is ordered by Scripture, ordered by gospel.
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You know, the building is full, and by the way, of overwhelmingly young adults, and of
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husbands and wives and mothers and fathers, and they're just all gathered together.
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And I just want to say, holding fast to biblical authority and to the biblical pattern actually
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Why in the world would evangelicals want to follow the way of mainline liberal Protestantism,
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which has been nothing more than the dust of death and disaster?
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I just want to say, unless we say no to that future, then we're not saying no to it. I mean,
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that's the problem. I think what you're pointing to is there's some people who don't want to take
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responsibility for saying yes, but they will not take the responsibility to say no. And I think
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the vast majority of Southern Baptists need to understand right now, we need to say yes to all
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that Scripture affirms and no to all that Scripture restricts, and then go on with Christ's business.
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Amen. Amen. Dr. Muller, thank you so much. Thank you just for your clarity and for your courage
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for being an example in clear, articulate, and brave communication for so long. I'm just so
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thankful for you and your leadership and continue to pray for you. And I'm just very, very grateful
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for the impact that the Lord has through you. Allie Best, so kindly said, and I'm so thankful
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for you and God bless you and your family. Thank you. You too.
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for $50 off. That's good ranchers.com code Allie. All right, y'all let's do some lifestyle
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pitter patter. You might've seen my video that I posted on Instagram. I was at the gym and looking
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and feeling very pregnant. Now I'm only a little over halfway, but this is my fourth pregnancy.
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And you know that the more pregnancies you have, the more you pop sooner, the sooner you pop,
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I should say. And you just, your belly just looked bigger than it did when you had your
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first pregnancy. And so you're like, I'm sitting there thinking, do all of these people think that
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I look 30 weeks pregnant? Oh my gosh, I look so much bigger than I should. I haven't worked out
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as much as I should. I'm like beating myself up for that, not eating as healthy as I should.
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And all I said, this was going to be different. All of these things swirling around in my head.
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Okay. Feeling very self-conscious insecure, my own issues. Now, some of it is valid because when
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you are pregnant, there is a segment of the population that abandons all filters. Okay.
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And you know how toddlers, when you pass by a person like in a wheelchair or a person with
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disability, say a person doesn't have an arm or doesn't have a leg, and they'll just stare at that
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person. And you're like, oh my gosh, my child is just like gawking at this person. I'm trying not
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to make a scene, but how do I say? Yeah. It's the same way when you're pregnant for a certain
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segment of the population. It is stunning to them. It's like they've never seen this species before
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and they will say things to you. They'll just make comments. And sometimes it's well-intentioned.
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other times just like, did that really just come out of your mouth? Most of you pregnant women,
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if you've been pregnant before, have probably experienced something like that. And so at this
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point I started to like anticipate things that people could be saying. And as I'm about to leave
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the gym yesterday, this sweet lady doing a wall sit stops me as she looks at my belly and she
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looks me in the eye and goes, you look so pretty. Pretty? Pretty? That is literally the last thing
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I was thinking about myself. The last thought I had about myself in my head was that I looked
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pretty in that moment of all the adjectives to describe me in the gym, no makeup on, with my
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hat on, feeling about 35 weeks pregnant, even though I am not even close to that. And this lady
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tells me I look pretty. And so that is my, that's my encouragement to myself, but also to all of you
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out there. Not all of you, only women. This is only for women. If you are a man, please don't
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take this advice unless you are talking to your wife. But if you are a woman and you see a pregnant
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woman out there, especially a woman who is in the third trimester past where I am, but she's
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waddling through the grocery store. She's huff puffing in the gym. I want you to stop her. And
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I want you to tell her you look so pretty. The oxytocin will probably fill her body in that
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moment and she will just go into labor because she will be so happy to hear the last thing she
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was thinking about herself. And there are some things that I just want to help you out. Maybe
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some of you older related bros out there who might feel tempted sometimes to say things to
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pregnant women. I just want to, it's not just, it's not just men at all. I have been told crazy
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things by people, some like public figures backstage at speaking events who have said
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things. I'm like, I won't, I won't embarrass those people, but people say crazy things.
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So let me just give you some examples of things that you should not say. And then things that
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you absolutely should say to pregnant women. Okay. And this is not a pregnant women are so
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sensitive and you need to be, you know, extra, just like gentle with them, but you probably
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should. And we are like a little bit sensitive and that's okay. But also this is just basic
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manners. Okay. So here's some things to never, never say, never say, never ask if there's more
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than one in there. Don't do that. Don't say, are you sure there's just one? Have you asked the
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doctor? And you know what, Janet, you can come with me to an exonogram appointment. If you're
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curious about that, people used to say that with my first, I always get large and in charge when
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I'm pregnant. Okay. So y'all can just anticipate that if this is your first time being around
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pregnant Allie, um, you there's got it, or you've got to be almost there. That's another one
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because you might say that and she's like 28, 28 weeks pregnant. Okay. She's not almost there.
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Don't even say it. Don't say it. Um, you've really grown since I saw you last. No, that's something
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that you could say to your five-year-old nephew. It's not something that you say to a pregnant
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woman. Okay. Um, and you, this next one, I wouldn't say unless you're close to this person.
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Okay. And you talk to them regularly. Don't say this to the stranger at the grocery store.
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You hanging in there. Cause she might be like, wow, I took a shower and brush my hair this
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morning. I put on a little makeup. I thought I was looking great. And this person just told me
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I look exhausted. Another one. Don't tell someone they look exhausted. That's just general,
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but don't tell a pregnant woman you must be exhausted you must be so tired I personally
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just would not express unless you know them intense sympathy for that person okay because
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that just makes them feel bad about themselves and more tired than they already are don't tell
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them they look tired you know before I announced I was giving getting very obvious that I was
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pregnant okay because I was like 20 weeks when I announced and I posted a video from a speaking
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engagement and which was very obvious that I was pregnant. And I wasn't worried about people
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knowing I was pregnant. I knew that we were about to announce in a couple of days and that was fine.
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But the things people said to me, I'm talking people who are fans of relatable message me,
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you should fire your stylist. If you're not pregnant, um, you're either pregnant or that
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dress should never be worn again. You should throw that dress away. Basically saying,
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if you you're not pregnant you look really fat in that dress now tell me sweet ladies why you
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would ever utter that to a human being if you cannot picture yourself coming up to me in person
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and saying that you shouldn't say it you shouldn't say it i want you to think about okay if i saw
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ally in public would i say this to her face and would she have a positive reaction or not just me
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to anyone. If you would not go up to someone and say that in church, Hey, if you're not pregnant,
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you should fire your stylist. Then don't say it online. Come on. This is like basic social
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interaction. Okay. So just don't say things like that. Um, don't ask someone in, unless you really,
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really know it is like abundantly obvious. And you know, the person, if they're pregnant,
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Phil Robertson used to tell this really funny story, uh, about how he asked a woman at some
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like family engagement when she's due or if she was expecting and she was not expecting. So now
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I think the first time I met him, I was literally like eight or nine months pregnant. He didn't say
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a word. He did not say a word about it because he was like, I learned my lesson. You just never
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know. I was feeling good about myself at one point postpartum. I went to an exercise class
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and I was not at all overweight in any way. This was after this was after my third,
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but I do have some diastasis recti. And so, you know, the stomach kind of curves out a little
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bit because of that. And the instructor afterwards, like, I was feeling good. I was feeling pretty
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strong. I was feeling like, yeah, I'm back working out. The instructor afterwards was like,
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oh my goodness, congratulations. How far along are you? And I mean, the color drained from her
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face when I was like, not pregnant, not pregnant. She tried to save it, but you really can't save
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it after that. Can you, you really can't. So I would just not do that. Now I feel pretty comfortable
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as a woman and as a mom myself, if a mom, like if I'm in an interaction with her and I don't know
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her and she is very, very pregnant and I can tell it is pregnancy to say like, Oh my goodness,
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what are you doing? That's so exciting. But I, you really have to like test it out. It has to
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be the proper circumstance. It's always an option to say nothing. There's nothing wrong with saying
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nothing. I just want to say that. But if you were going to say something, this is what I would,
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these are the options that I would say. I wrote some things down. You look so pretty. That woman,
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she will have a place in my heart forever. My husband tells me I look beautiful every single
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day, multiple times a day, which obviously means a lot to me, but everyone knows that a compliment
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from a stranger at the gym, you're like, whoa, that that's really going to speak to me forever.
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It's going to carry me through the rest of this pregnancy. Another thing you could say to someone,
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especially if she's got a lot of kids running around with her and she's pregnant, you are so
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blessed. Um, I am thrilled for you. You are glowing. How wonderful. Your baby is so blessed
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to have you as a mom. You look so peaceful. All of this is better than saying, whew, you're almost
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there, you got this, or you have your hands full. That's not always wrong to say, but sometimes
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it's interpreted as like, why did you have this many kids? Um, all of these positive things are
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better than gawking at them. You can say what incredible blessings you're an awesome mom. Um,
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if you clearly see, like I've done this in an airport before, if I'm traveling by myself,
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if you see that a mom is really struggling, um, she's got her, she's got all of her luggage.
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she's trying to open doors, just open the door for her, grab something for her and say,
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you're doing a great job. You're doing a great job. Not, oh my goodness, are you okay? Because
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then they're like, oh my gosh, do I look stressed? Do I look exhausted? She's like,
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you're doing a great job and open the door for her. Okay. It's always an option to do or say
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nothing. But if you feel the urge to say something to a mom or to a pregnant woman,
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these are some good things to say. I don't know why our filters go away when we see pregnant
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women, even me, sometimes I'll see a pregnant woman and I just feel the urge to be like,
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how far along are you? Oh my goodness. You look tired. I don't know why. I don't know why we
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shouldn't, we shouldn't just only say positive things. Okay. Thank you to the woman who told me
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that I look pretty in the gym. That was so sweet. Um, all right. That's my advice for you today.
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Go tell a pregnant woman that she's pretty. I'll see you on Friday.
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