Ep 1365 ｜ The Iran Deal’s Surprising Role in End Times Prophecy ｜ Mark Hitchcock
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Summary
Pastor Mark Hitchcock of Faith Bible Church in Edmond, Oklahoma joins us to talk about his new book, "The Persian Storm," about biblical prophecy and what is going on in the Middle East. No matter how you land on eschatology, you will learn something and be encouraged.
Transcript
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How does the New Deal with Iran fit into biblical prophecy about the end times, or does it at
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He just wrote the book, The Persian Storm, all about biblical prophecy and what is going
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Fascinating conversation, no matter how you land on eschatology, you will learn something
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This episode is brought to you by our friends at Good Ranchers, go to goodranchers.com.
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Mark, thanks so much for taking the time to join us.
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Could you tell everyone who you are and what you do?
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I'm a pastor of Faith Bible Church in Edmond, Oklahoma.
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I'm also a research professor down at Dallas Theological Seminary.
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If you could tell us about your latest book, Persian Storm, what it is and why you wrote it.
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Well, you know, I've been watching what's happening in the Middle East for a lot of years.
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It really helps me understand God's plan for what's happening in our world now and in the future.
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So I've been studying Bible prophecy for a lot of years.
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And I believe there's a prophecy in the Bible in Ezekiel chapters 38 and 39.
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It talks about a coming invasion of the land of Israel when the people of Israel have been regathered back to their land, which they have now since 1948.
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And it talks about a coalition of nations that will come into Israel and invade them in the end times.
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They're ancient names, but we look at the modern counterparts.
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One of those nations in Ezekiel 38.5 is Persia, which is modern day Iran.
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The name was just changed in 1935 to Iran, and today it's the Islamic Republic of Iran.
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And so I believe that what we see happening in our world today is setting the stage for these future events that the Bible predicts.
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And, you know, we don't know everything that's going to happen, but we know the end result the Bible tells us about this coming invasion.
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And what we see today, I think, is the buildup to that is setting the stage for these events that are coming.
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And so I think it's important for us as believers to understand what the Bible says about what's coming in the future,
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but also to help us see how things are being set up today for that.
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And, you know, one of the things that does is gives us a lot of confidence that the Bible is true and that God's in control of what's happening.
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It's not just chaos and, you know, we're just kind of like, you know, a bus going down a mountain road out of control,
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that there's a plan that God has and he's in control and we can have confidence and trust in that.
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yes um you know there are so many different debates as you know about the end times what
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that's going to look like there's a group who believes that you know what is interpreted by
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many today is end times prophecy has already been fulfilled post-millennialist tend to believe that
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way there's the all-millennialist i'm a historic pre-millennialist which is not dispensationalist
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but there's a lot of crossover and then also a lot of differences in what faithful christians
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believe is going to occur when Jesus returns again, rapture in the middle of the tribulation,
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after the tribulation, all different kinds of things. But you've arrived to the conclusion
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that you come to, which I think is dispensationalism, correct?
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That's right. Yes. I'm a pre-millennialist like you. I believe Jesus is coming back,
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going to set up a literal thousand year reign. But yeah, the difference is I believe in the
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pre-tribulation rapture. That's probably the main difference between historic premillennial and
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dispensational premillennial. Yes. Right. Whereas I'm post-trib, you are pre-trib, but a lot of
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similarities in what we think about when things are going to occur in the end times. And I'm so
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fascinated in what you talk about when you talk about Ezekiel 38 through 39 and what that has to
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do with this Persian storm and what's going on right now. So could you elucidate that a little
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bit. Sure. You know, Ezekiel 37 is a good starting point. Ezekiel 37 talks about a regathering of the
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Jewish people in the end times to their land. And that really began in earnest in 1948 when the
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modern state of Israel was founded. And only 6% of the Jews lived in Israel in 1948. They were
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regathered after being scattered for 2,000 years to 70 countries. They were regathered to their
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homeland to their ancient homeland and the bible predicts that they're going to be regathered there
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in ezekiel 37 and we're seeing that prophecy about israel being regathered being fulfilled
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before our eyes so we can know the other things ezekiel says will happen as well because we can
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see one prophecy happening right before our eyes but ezekiel 38 talks about when they're regathered
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to their land and it says when they're at rest and living securely that a group of nations are
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going to come into Israel to try to wipe them out, to try to, like, they're going to come like a cloud
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to wipe them off the face of the earth. And some of these nations that are mentioned, if you look
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at the modern counterparts to those, it's for the places that are mentioned are in modern-day Turkey.
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Persia, of course, I mentioned earlier, mentions modern-day Iran. Arosh and Magog, which I believe
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are in modern-day Russia, are mentioned. And so, you know, these are the nations that we see today,
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primarily Iran right now, that are, you know, the main enemy of Israel, have all these proxies
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against Israel. And so the Bible tells us that's going to happen at some point in the future when
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Israel's been regathered to their land. And again, since the prophecy in Ezekiel 37 about Israel
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being regathered is being literally fulfilled, I believe that Ezekiel 38 and 39 will be literally
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fulfilled as well at some point in the future. So again, I see what's happening today in the
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build up to this. Nothing we see today is the fulfillment of anything in Ezekiel 38, but just
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the stage is being set because the events of the end times can't happen in a vacuum. You know,
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it's not like it's just going to all of a sudden, everything's just going to come together in a
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year's time. There's a build up and a process to this. And that's what I think we see happening,
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which indicates to me that, you know, Christ's coming could be very near. Now we don't set dates
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for Christ's coming. That's a reckless thing to ever do. Jesus forbade us to do that. But
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there are things we see in our world today that the scenario in our world, the events in our world
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look more and more like the biblical scenario, I believe, that's predicted for the end times
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more and more all the time. You know, some people argue that, well, we've already seen
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kind of the fulfillment of that happen in the book of Esther. But obviously, you're arguing
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that, no, no, the Gog and Magog, Ezekiel 38 through 39, has not yet been fulfilled.
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And so what do you say to that contention that that's basically already occurred?
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One is in Ezekiel 38, it talks about that it's going to happen in the latter years.
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And that phrase is often used of the time of the coming of Messiah in the Old Testament.
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But back in the book of Esther, there was a, you know, a destruction of a lot of enemies of Israel in the book of Esther.
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They were kind of, the Jewish people were scattered all over the place and kind of took care of their enemies or destroyed their enemies in various places.
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Ezekiel 38 says these nations are going to come into the land of Israel and they're going to die.
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They're going to be killed supernaturally by God on the mountains of Israel by disease, by fire and brimstone from heaven, by infighting among the armies.
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Nothing like that happened back in 473 A.D. or 473 B.C. whenever the book of Esther took place.
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Also, you know, if the book of Esther, there's a Jewish feast that came out of that, out of the book of Esther called the Feast of Purim.
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And it'd be interesting if the Jewish people don't believe that Ezekiel 38 was fulfilled
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in the time of Esther, because if they did, they would make that part of their celebration
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So the Jewish people themselves don't see that as a fulfillment of Ezekiel 38.
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So I don't think it's something that's far in the distant past.
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How confident can we be that these ancient civilizations like Persia correspond to the
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modern nations that we see like Iran today? Well, you know, Ezekiel's writing in about 570 BC.
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And so when he's writing back then, obviously these modern nations that we know today don't exist.
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So I think he's just stating these are the geographical locations.
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These are the places that will be part of this invasion.
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Now, the names of some of these places have changed a lot over time.
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But it's these locations, these places, whatever they're called, whenever this event takes place, you know, they could change again.
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but there's four of them that are mentioned that are in modern-day Turkey as Meshach and Tubal and
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Gomer and Togarmah. I mean, they're clearly in modern-day Turkey. You know, again, Persia just
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became Iran. Put is mentioned, which is modern-day Libya. Kush, which is Sudan. The modern day was
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south of Egypt. So these are the locations that are going to invade, but obviously Ezekiel's
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writing in his day, if he would have written, you know, modern names for these places, no one would
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have had any idea where they were he was writing to his audience at that time now obviously every
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christian no matter what their eschatological view is should look to the bible as our guidebook
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not modern events but at the same time we do look at modern events and then we look to scripture we
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try to compare the two as you're doing in your book and say okay what exactly is happening
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Is there anything in this Iran peace deal, as it's called,
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that has kind of just been executed that shapes or affects
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what you think about everything that you're talking about in that region?
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Well, you know, this Iran peace deal is one of the most amazing things I've ever seen.
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You talk about back and forth and conflicting ideas.
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You know, somebody says one thing and then the other side comes out the next day
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But, you know, the whole idea, though, of peace in the Middle East has been an elusive phantom now for decades.
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I mean, president after president, secretary of state after secretary of state have tried to go over and solve that Gordian knot,
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you know, that Rubik's Cube over there in the Middle East.
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And my understanding, again, of Bible prophecy is, I think in the end times, there's a figure who's going to arise called the Antichrist.
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He's going to be a kind of a rise out of nowhere.
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And eventually he's going to take over the whole world,
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which I think a lot of the technology today and all of that fits in with that whole scenario.
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But I think the Bible tells us that when the Antichrist comes on the scene,
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he's going to forge some kind of peace agreement there in the Middle East
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that's going to bring peace to Israel for a period of time.
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It's going to be a temporary peace, but he's going to do what no one's been able to do and solve that unsolvable problem.
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So I see all of these peace negotiations, peace movements that are taking place in the Middle East as a build up to that.
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And, you know, alongside of that, we have these Abraham Accords, which a lot of people believe if we can, you know, if something can come to pass where the U.S. and Iran can come to some peace deal,
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then that may open up a broader peace where saudi arabia and some of these other nations
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will become part of the abraham accords you know of course president trump has started this board
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of peace that's uh you know trying to negotiate the situation with israel and gaza but you just
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see all these different things the abraham accords the board of peace the the peace negotiations
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between iran and the u.s right now i think you know hezbollah and israel have agreed to some talks
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where they're going to meet and talk about peace.
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I think he's going to be able to broker some kind of a deal.
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And he may take a framework that's already in place
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because I believe that there's a seven-year tribulation period that's coming in the future,
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a seven-year time of great trouble for the world.
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And the Bible tells us the event that starts that period of time
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is this peace treaty that the Antichrist is able to broker over there
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So to me, all this is just a buildup again to what's coming.
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There'll be a lot of twists and turns as we go along.
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but this peace negotiation, I think, is a very key part of that ultimate scenario that the Bible
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predicts. I have so many questions. It's so fascinating. Should Christians then be wary
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of any world leader who is trying to negotiate peace, considering that we all want peace. War
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is bad. We don't want casualties. We don't want the conflict that comes with war. And so peacemaking,
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obviously is something that's good, regarded very highly by Jesus.
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Do we think of peacemaking in the Middle East with skepticism?
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It's our job in this world to do what we can to see justice carried out, compassion.
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We don't want people being killed in the Russia-Ukraine war
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and these wars, these terrible wars that are taking place.
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You know, it's not our job as Christians to try to work these things and, you know, try
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to see world events happen in a way where the end times will come.
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We don't want people over there being killed and their economy being destroyed.
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but the bible does say that ultimately there's someone who will come who's going to use peace
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then kind of as a tool in his own toolbox to kind of you know come in and gain ascendancy in the
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world but we should be wary of people today who are trying to bring peace because the antichrist
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is going to come on the scene in a very obscure way he's going to rise out of insignificance
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so no one we see today on the world scene who's really well known is the antichrist i believe
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I believe he's going to rise up out of total obscurity and insignificance at the beginning
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And so we should be for peace and compassion for people all over the world today.
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God will work all those things out in his time.
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And it's also important to know, and you can add to this, I'm sure, but that the brokering
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of peace is not the only signal that this person is the Antichrist.
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The Antichrist will also be able to achieve global power, will also bring about the intense
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And so we can't say, oh, anyone who is trying to broker a piece, Trump or anyone else in
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his administration or whatever, that they're acting in a way that is of the Antichrist.
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The Antichrist will be a distinct figure who not only brings about a fake piece, but also
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has all of these other characteristics that are described in Revelation, right?
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That's right. Yeah, the Antichrist, I mean, he's going to come on the scene. He's going to be
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someone like the world's never seen before. I mean, the Bible says he's going to do signs and
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wonders. I mean, he's going to be a miracle worker. He's going to be a captivating, mesmerizing
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speaker that will take the world by storm. He's going to use, I believe, all the technology that
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we have in our world today to leverage these things to be able to gain control over people's
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lives. Ultimately, the Antichrist is going to demand that the whole world worship him as God.
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So, you know, what began in the book of Genesis with the sin of man is going to end with the man of sin in the end.
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And we shouldn't try to identify anyone today as the Antichrist.
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People send me all kinds of stuff all the time, telling me they figured out who the Antichrist is.
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And we're not to try to figure out who the Antichrist is.
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Of course, myself, you know, believing in the pre-tribulation rapture, I think we're going to be raptured before he's revealed.
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And so I always tell people, you know, from my perspective,
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Okay. So is your view then I hope you're right. And I'm wrong by the way, because I would love
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for the rapture before the tribulation to be true. And many people I honor and respect hold
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that belief as well um we do read that the mark of the beast um will be um those okay so those who
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refuse to worship the antichrist will not take the mark of the beast so that will be believers so is
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your view then that those believers who refuse to take the mark of the beast that they became
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believers during that tribulation and after the rapture that those christians in your view wouldn't
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be Christians that were already Christians at that point, but became Christians later
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That's what you have to hold if you hold to my view.
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Everybody who's a believer on the face of the earth at the moment of the rapture, it
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was caught up in a moment in the twinkling of an eye.
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And then after that, many people will come to faith.
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You know, I think the rapture could be the greatest evangelistic tool in history.
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I mean, you think about all the people have heard about it and all of a sudden, you know,
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these people disappeared like, wow, you know, this is what they said was right. And it'll reorder
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the world. I think we don't have any idea today in some ways how the world will be reordered,
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how the Antichrist will be able to come in. He'll be the man with a plan. And he's going to come in
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and have all kinds of plans and bring to this world. So, yeah, people will come to Christ after
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that. In Revelation 7, there's a whole multitude of people that are believers. Can't even count
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the number. And, you know, John asks, who are these? And he says, these are those who've come
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out of great tribulation and they've rashed their robes wide in the blood of the lamb so
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many many people will come to christ i believe after how the rapture takes place during the
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tribulation so we often call them tribulation saints and those are the people that we read
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about in my view you know during the tribulation period who are on the earth yeah yeah so
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interesting you know there are some people who i think this is mostly in the post-millennial
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camp which is not the camp that i'm in but who believe that you know the tribulation has already
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happened and there are many tribulations that happen some of them believe that nero is the
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antichrist and we're just living in a different time now post-millennial but um you know something
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that i hear a lot is well it's easy for us americans to say that there will be a future
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tribulation but if you look at for example what's happening in nigeria or in the middle east or in
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China to Christians, not just today, but throughout history, how they have been slaughtered, kidnapped,
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enslaved, tortured, Ottoman Empire, the horrible things that Christians went through. How can there
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be a future tribulation that would be even worse than that? And so how do we distinguish what that
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future tribulation will be like versus the already horrible things that Christians are having to
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endure around the world today? Yeah, that's a great question. You know, what I distinguish it
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this way is you kind of, everybody in this world as believers have tribulation. Jesus said,
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the apostle Paul said, it's by many tribulations you'll enter the kingdom of God. So everybody has
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problems, troubles, trials in life. Many people, severe trials, as you've mentioned in different
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parts of the world. But I call those small T tribulation and the tribulation period will be
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the capital T tribulation, because the thing that will distinguish it is not only will there be the
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wrath of humanity, I mean, humanity's inhumanity to one another, not only will there be the wrath
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of Satan and his demonic host that we see today, but the tribulation will be a unique period of
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time when God himself is doling out and pouring out wrath upon the earth. You have a series of
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judgments there's seven seals there's seven trumpets there's seven bowls as god himself is
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judging this world for its rebellion against him and so that's one of the reasons people like
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myself are pre-trib because all of us believe all the different views of the rapture believe that
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we're exempt from god's wrath it's just when does the wrath start and how does god keep us from it
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and i believe that whole seven year period is the wrath of god on this earth now now it intensifies
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So it doesn't start out as bad as it is at the end,
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being tortured and kidnapped and persecuted as believers,
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in the future. Yeah, something that we haven't seen before. And if people want to know my exact
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view of eschatology, I've done an episode, few episodes on that, but we'll link it in the
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description of this episode. People can go look at that. But I'm more interested in what you think
00:24:57.640
in this conversation. I'm curious about Iran and a little bit more about their role in this.
00:25:04.860
Obviously, hostility toward Israel, toward America are two of their main characteristics.
00:25:11.080
But if the Iranian regime, as hostile as it is right now, say it was overturned and it was replaced by a more neutral, less radical regime, would that change at all what you think about what is shaping up eschatologically in the Middle East?
00:25:27.180
Well, you know, what I always look at when I see the Bible is we know, I know at least, well, I think I know, you know, what the Bible says about Ezekiel 38, 39.
00:25:40.060
You know, we don't know all the different events that will take place to get to that
00:25:45.780
But what I believe is at some point in time in the future, Israel is going to be at rest,
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In other words, they're going to be living under this false peace of the Antichrist.
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Russia, Iran, these nations are going to conspire together.
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I mean, you know, you think about Iran with all that's happening right now with Midnight
00:26:03.100
Hammer and Operation Roaring Lion and Epic Fury.
00:26:05.920
I mean, their hatred for Israel, obviously, among the regime, has been at a very high level.
00:26:16.260
And they will look at any chance in the future they have to pounce upon Israel.
00:26:20.580
But, you know, even if the regime over there were to fall and a more moderate regime were to come in, all the seeds of that revolution are still there.
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All those Iranian Revolutionary Guard Corps leaders are still there unless they're totally eliminated.
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The Basij, who's kind of the ground troops for this radical regime, will all still be there.
00:26:41.020
And among all the leaders that are there, the whole Mullah regime, it's interesting.
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That ideology is really what drives everything for them.
00:26:58.400
They're very interested in prophecy in the future.
00:27:07.800
And they believe the Mahdi, the 12th Imam, he was a direct descendant of Muhammad, went into hiding, or they call it occlusion, back in the 9th century, back in 873 AD.
00:27:21.620
And they believe that someday he'll come out of hiding and he'll be the rightly guided one.
00:27:28.660
I mean, he's going to bring a global rule of Islam, but they believe that for him to
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come, that he's going to come in a time of chaos and bloodshed in the world.
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And they believe that America is the big Satan and Satan's the little Satan, and that we
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need to be removed for their Mahdi to come back.
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And so they believe, too, that they can hotwire the apocalypse.
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They can put out the welcome mat for the Mahdi by creating these things.
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So they believe that in creating all this chaos and fighting against Israel and, you know, trying to destroy the United States, that they're actually, you know, speeding up the coming of their Mahdi.
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So all of that ideology that's deeply embedded there, that's not going to go away.
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It's not going to go anywhere, no matter who's ruling there.
00:28:16.240
And it would, you know, I think those seeds could rise back up very quickly.
00:28:20.760
You could see, you know, another overthrow or a coup there.
00:28:24.440
Again, we don't know what would happen, but we do know what the Bible says will happen.
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And whatever happens over in Iran, God's in control of that.
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And ultimately, it will lead to the events in Ezekiel 38, I believe.
00:28:43.800
Did you know that July is National Grilling Month?
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That means that you got to celebrate along with celebrating the 4th of July,
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Their chicken nuggets, by the way, are seed oil free, which is almost impossible to find
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It's also really hard to find American, truly American raised livestock and meat in the
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It might even say made in the USA on there, and they might just be lying.
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They're just packaging their meat in the U.S., but they're not really raising the livestock
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If you want to make sure you are actually supporting American farms and ranches, you
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from Good Ranchers, another family-owned Christian company.
00:29:51.600
Um, you know, there are some critics of just the idea that we should be looking at the modern state
00:30:01.100
of Israel, um, through this biblically prophetic lens. And there's a big argument about this among
00:30:09.180
a lot of different factions of Christians who Israel is, if we're really talking about the
00:30:15.220
literal, physical Israel today. But your argument is that we are, that we are talking about the
00:30:22.340
current nation state of Israel, whereas critics would say, no, God's chosen people in Israel,
00:30:30.540
they go through the line of Christ and through the lens of Christ, we have been grafted in,
00:30:36.380
we are the church, we are the new Israel. And you take a differing approach to what I just
00:30:41.880
articulated. So can you talk a little bit more about that, why you take Israel references in
00:30:47.920
these prophecies literally? Sure. It goes all the way back to Abraham, the Abrahamic covenant. God
00:30:54.640
made a covenant with Abraham. He told him, lift up your eyes. He's in the land of Canaan. Look as
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far as you can see every direction. I'm going to give this land to you and to your descendants
00:31:03.280
forever. He made the same promise to Isaac, made the same promise to Jacob. God promised them that
00:31:09.680
land, their descendants forever. Now God's put them out of the land several times for their
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disobedience. The last time he did it was in 70 AD. They were scattered against 70 countries for
00:31:20.320
2000 years, but they were brought back in 1948 by a UN resolution. But it's a miracle that the
00:31:27.500
Jewish people are back there in their land today. I mean, it's called the miracle on the Mediterranean
00:31:32.080
that they're even there. Again, I mentioned earlier, 6% of the Jews were there then. Now
00:31:36.920
almost half the Jews in the world are back there in the land.
00:31:48.500
So somebody has a count of who Jewish people are.
00:31:52.680
And they say, well, these people just came back
00:31:54.300
from Eastern Europe and came back to Israel.
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And so I believe that God brought them back there
00:32:11.460
to set the stage for these events of the end times.
00:32:14.780
And so I believe that the covenants God made with Israel,
00:32:19.120
with the Jewish people, with Abraham, Isaac, Jacob,
00:32:33.100
He doesn't say the covenants belonged to Israel.
00:32:36.880
And Israel in that context clearly is the descendants of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob.
00:32:41.900
And so if those covenants, and of course, Paul's writing those words during this current
00:32:48.280
So I believe those covenants still belong to Israel and that God will fulfill those
00:32:53.200
with them, a future generation of them at some point in the future.
00:32:57.840
And now in the church age today, in the church, Jews and Gentiles are one in the body of Christ.
00:33:02.460
But I believe that God has a special plan for the nation of Israel through those covenants
00:33:06.520
he made, and that God will literally fulfill those covenants at some point in the future.
00:33:13.520
You know, as you were talking, I was also thinking of Romans 9, and I'm wondering how
00:33:17.840
you think of this verse when Paul says, not all who are descended from Israel belong to
00:33:23.940
Israel, and not all are children of Abraham because they are his offspring.
00:33:27.600
But through Isaac shall your offspring be named.
00:33:30.180
That means, Paul says, that it is not the children of the flesh who are the children
00:33:34.640
of God, but the children of the promise are counted as offspring.
00:33:39.120
So it seems to me, because he's saying, he goes on to say, is there injustice on God's
00:33:44.500
part that he seemed to promise this one thing and now he's doing something else?
00:33:48.440
And he goes on to say, well, no, because God created us.
00:33:56.700
this, you know, I've interpreted this passage as meaning, look, it's children of the promise.
00:34:02.000
God fulfilled his promises through Christ, and it is those in Christ who are his chosen
00:34:07.900
As he says, it's not children of the flesh who are offspring of Abraham, but children
00:34:15.320
Well, it says earlier, it says, you know, not all who are Israel are of Israel.
00:34:18.520
In other words, not all Israelites are believers.
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So Israelites, Jewish people who aren't believers in Messiah, they're not part of the promise.
00:34:27.820
They don't receive that promise, but it doesn't mean that somehow those blessings have been transferred to Gentiles or to the church.
00:34:36.140
I think he's just saying, look, not everybody who's of Israel or born of Israel who's a Jew is really a true Israelite.
00:34:41.820
In other words, they're not really a full Jew in the sense of believing in Jesus as their Messiah.
00:34:47.620
So I don't think he's making a transference there of, you know, hey, now Gentiles are Jews as well.
00:34:52.260
Because you read all of Romans 9, 10, and 11 together, get all the way down to chapter 11, verse 1.
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It says, at the end of chapter 10, God says, I'm holding out my arms day after day to this obstinate people.
00:35:06.220
Then he says in chapter 11, verse 1, has God rejected his people whom he foreknew?
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this is god forbid the strongest negative you can have in the greek language and he goes on to to
00:35:19.200
talk about what he's doing in this current age then you get down to 11 25 and he says that when
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the fullness of the gentiles have come in all israel will be saved and i think that looks at
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a remnant of israel in the end times that god's going to save in the end you know deliverer is
00:35:35.100
going to come from zion which is jerusalem he's going to remove ungodliness from jacob in other
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words that this generation at the end is going to be purged and they're going to be able to go into
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his kingdom but you know romans 9 10 and 11 you have to we read all those all three of those
00:35:50.520
chapters kind of together chapter 9 is kind of israel's past their past election chapter 10 is
00:35:56.620
their present rejection and chapter 11 i think is their future restoration and i think the reason
00:36:02.080
romans 9 10 and 11 are there this is very important in the book of romans you know why does god just
00:36:07.040
put those chapters in there. Right at the end of Romans 8, he's just made this promise. Nothing can
00:36:12.940
separate you from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus. High depth, angels, principalities,
00:36:17.360
nothing. Well, there would be somebody out there, maybe an objector would say, well, what about the
00:36:21.820
Jewish people? You made all these promises to them. It looks like you've rejected them. And so how can
00:36:27.740
I know you're not going to do the same to me? So I think he puts chapters 10, 11, 9, 10, and 11
00:36:33.560
there to say, I haven't rejected them forever. They are now been set aside. They're obstinate.
00:36:39.280
The majority of them don't believe in me, but I've still got a plan for them and I'm going to
00:36:44.800
fulfill my promises with them. And so you can be assured I'm going to fulfill my promises with you
00:36:49.320
as well. Yeah. And what we agree on and what all Christians definitionally have to agree on is
00:36:56.680
that there is only salvation through Christ. And even when you're talking about a future plan for
00:37:03.080
the remnant of Israel. You are not talking about a separate mode of salvation. Sometimes they see
00:37:07.820
people accuse dispensationalists of that, and that's not true. You believe that that promise
00:37:12.900
is fulfilled through Christ, just as it's been fulfilled to us through Christ too, correct?
00:37:19.100
Yeah, that's right. In Zechariah 12, it says that they're going to look upon me whom they've pierced.
00:37:25.120
They're going to mourn like one mourns for an only son. When Jesus comes, I believe there's
00:37:29.660
going to be a generation of jewish people who will look to jesus and they'll see him and you
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know the only man-made thing in heaven will be the wounds of jesus and they'll be there forever for
00:37:39.700
people to see and the jewish people are going to recognize him they're going to look upon the one
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they pierce they're going to mourn for him they're going to repent and they're going to receive him
00:37:47.580
him as their messiah and i think then god's program and plan for them then will have come
00:37:52.900
full circle and will be completed during that time and he'll fulfill his promises with them i think
00:37:57.820
during, you know, the millennium, during the kingdom, you're going to give him the land that
00:38:01.520
he promised and all of that. Yes. You know, a lot of people, when they think about the end times,
00:38:07.580
they're just like, you know, I don't, I just don't want to think about it. It's all going to work out
00:38:12.500
in the end. It's, you know, some people think it's stressful. There are so many disagreements
00:38:16.540
and debates about it. What is the responsible, most biblical and peaceful way? Not via speculation,
00:38:23.620
but, you know, in a biblical way to think about the end times
00:38:28.080
and why is it important for Christians to consider?
00:38:31.540
Well, you know, I always say, you know, about the millennium,
00:38:35.000
you know, spring millennial, amillennial, post-millennial.
00:38:39.840
So, you know, we don't want to argue about things with other believers.
00:38:44.780
You know, there are several things that if you're a believer,
00:38:49.760
We believe Jesus is coming back literally, visibly.
00:38:56.280
We believe that there's a future final judgment.
00:38:58.980
And we believe there's a literal heaven and hell.
00:39:01.220
So those are kind of the four pillars of a biblical view of the end times.
00:39:04.960
Now, around those four things, there are a lot of different, you know, points that we
00:39:11.260
But anyone who believes those things has an orthodox view of the end times.
00:39:16.160
And we don't want to, you know, make this an issue where we break fellowship with people.
00:39:21.040
I have friends that disagree with me on the different points.
00:39:24.800
I mean, even, you know, even if someone's a dispensationalist, we still disagree about
00:39:30.340
But, you know, people disagree about a lot of things.
00:39:32.380
People disagree about baptism and the Lord's Supper.
00:39:35.180
And, you know, so we don't want to, and Calvinism and Arminianism.
00:39:38.620
So we don't want to allow the fact that we disagree about the end times to cause us not
00:39:44.240
I think a lot of people just kind of turned off where there's so many views, but there's
00:39:48.940
but i think it's important to study bible prophecy because there are a thousand prophecies in the
00:39:55.460
bible about a thousand prophecies about 500 of those have been literally fulfilled there's nothing
00:40:02.480
that proves the truth of the bible and that god is the true god like prophecy so the bible is
00:40:08.460
filled with prophecy and it's the only hope that we have in this world the only hope in this world
00:40:27.920
but our ultimate hope is in Christ and in his coming.
00:40:41.060
and it's mentioned 318 times in 260 chapters in the new testament so more than once per chapter
00:40:48.380
so obviously this is something that god wants us to think about when the bible was originally
00:40:53.800
written 28 of the bible was prophecy at the time it was written a lot of that's been fulfilled
00:40:59.120
already but it's something that we need to understand i think just to have a grasp of kind
00:41:04.540
of god's program his plan where things are headed in this world and god didn't give us prophecy to
00:41:11.660
scare us but to prepare us he didn't give it to us to make us afraid but to make us aware and alert
00:41:17.820
and ready for him when he comes back and living a life that's pleasing to him and so i think it's a
00:41:24.540
very important part of our christian lives that i think is um kind of uh neglected i think in many
00:41:32.380
people's spiritual lives, even in their spiritual disciplines, to really long for the coming
00:41:38.740
The New Testament ends, John saying, even so, now come Lord Jesus.
00:41:50.380
What if I told you that major diaper companies are paying for their employees to cross state
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00:41:56.280
lines to get an abortion at a later date than the state where they live allows them to get
00:42:02.380
like not only is it counterproductive for your business to abort babies but much bigger than
00:42:08.680
that it is grossly immoral and if we have the option not to pay for that and not to be a part
00:42:14.920
of that by buying diapers and wipes from those pro-abortion companies then we should take the
00:42:19.760
option and you should make the switch to every life because every life is america's pro-life
00:42:23.440
diaper company instead of sending their dollars to immoral things like that they're actually
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supporting pregnancy centers. They have a buy for a cause bundle that you can buy on their website.
00:42:33.880
And this supplies pregnancy centers who then supply moms and dads and their babies with
00:42:38.580
what they need. They need diapers. They need wipes. They need all kinds of things to help
00:42:42.540
them make that life affirming decision. So not only does every life make great products. We,
00:42:47.620
when we were in our diaper stage, which we will be in again soon, we were using all of their
00:42:52.340
diapers and wipes, which work really well or really clean, great for sensitive baby skin.
00:42:57.840
but I just also love knowing the mission behind it and what I'm supporting by using EveryLife
00:43:02.660
products. Go to everylife.com, use code Allie10. You'll get 10% off your first order. That's
00:43:07.680
everylife.com, code Allie10. You know, a lot of people accuse pre-millennialists of just, um,
00:43:24.700
the world is going to go to hell in a handbasket.
00:43:30.340
And so there's no use in trying to make anything better because things are
00:43:34.240
only going to become more simple and more corrupt.
00:43:37.880
Why is that a wrong interpretation of the view that you just articulated that,
00:43:48.920
why doesn't that mean that we should just sit on our hands and wait?
00:43:52.460
Well, Jesus has given us all kinds of commands about what to do while we're waiting.
00:43:56.880
He's told us to go and take the gospel to all nations.
00:44:07.860
You know, give the Caesar what Caesar's to God, what's God's.
00:44:10.780
So there's nothing in the Bible at all about just sitting around and waiting.
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In fact, in 2 Thessalonians chapter 3, Paul chides these Thessalonian believers who kind of were just quit working.
00:44:25.220
They were just kind of parasites, just kind of sponging off the other believers this idea, hey, Jesus is coming back.
00:44:30.240
And so, you know, we're just kind of, you know, kind of just, you know, live life and not worry about anything.
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Paul writes a letter and, you know, comes against the Thessalonians for living that way.
00:44:41.500
And the one thing I've always found fascinating to some of the greatest missionaries and Christian leaders of the last hundred years are premillennialists.
00:44:57.060
Greg Laurie is a strong Bible prophecy premillennialist.
00:45:03.180
And, you know, C.I. Schofield, you know, the Schofield Bible.
00:45:05.960
You know, people just love to lambast the Schofield Bible.
00:45:08.520
C.I. Schofield started the Central American Mission, a missions organization that's had
00:45:14.040
great impact. So not just premillennialists, but even dispensationalists have had a big impact in
00:45:20.720
world missions and all of that. And so I've never once in my life, and I've known, you know, most of
00:45:26.700
the leading dispensationalists probably over the last 50 years, I've never met one of them that
00:45:32.060
had that attitude of just kind of a laissez-faire attitude. Tim LaHaye, you know, was a strong
00:45:36.580
dispensationalist wrote the left behind series he was one of the most active evangelists i've ever
00:45:41.520
met in my life i've been with him many times and he's sharing the gospel with a waitress that comes
00:45:47.200
to wait on us or someone in a store i mean he was you know the farthest thing from a person just
00:45:52.700
kind of sitting back and saying well hey we're just going to wait for the lord to come back and
00:45:56.040
constantly busy laboring for the lord so the people that i know that i'm friends with that
00:46:00.920
are premillennialists dispensationalists are actually some of the most engaged culturally
00:46:05.720
engaged people that I know. Hmm. Yeah. Um, what else can you tell us about that you wrote in
00:46:13.280
your book that you're like, okay, this was one thing that in your research and your study that
00:46:17.780
you found fascinating or really important that you want people to know? Well, you know, I think
00:46:25.040
one of the things that's important is, as we look at these, you know, events that are happening in
00:46:29.260
world today is how much focus there is on these nations that are mentioned in ezekiel 38 till you
00:46:36.100
really start thinking about it you know you don't really notice that but obviously israel i mean
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they became a nation in 1948 and you know they're the focus of all kinds of hatred today and venom
00:46:46.460
against them there they are and the bible predicts that israel will be a burdensome stone to the
00:46:52.600
nations in the end times well if there's any nation that's a burdensome stone to the world
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right now, it's Israel. And also to see just how Iran and Russia and these other nations that are
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00:47:03.020
mentioned there are in the news almost every day. Right now, Iran, Iran negotiations, you've got
00:47:09.980
the Ukraine-Russia war. In fact, you know, the G7 just met here this last week, and the two topics
00:47:16.760
that were front and center were Iran and Russia. You know, the Russia-Ukraine war and these Iran
00:47:22.460
peace negotiations so to me i think the thing that that probably grabbed me the most is just
00:47:27.280
as you read about these different nations that were listed there 2500 years ago
00:47:31.760
you can look today and say okay israel's back in their land just like the bible said
00:47:37.100
they've got these enemies around them that want to destroy them one of them's iran you got russia
00:47:42.540
you got turkey and four of these names are are from modern day turkey erdogan who's the the
00:47:47.860
president there, you know, hates Israel. And so it just, to me, when I look at that and think about
00:47:53.780
this was written by a Jewish prophet 2,500 years ago, and you pick it up today and it looks like
00:48:00.920
the newspaper. Now, again, you made a good point earlier. We don't look at the Bible through current
00:48:06.840
events. You know, we don't look at current events and then go, hey, what can I find in the Bible
00:48:10.860
that fits this? We look at current events through the Bible, but we can't help but read the Bible
00:48:18.520
well, this looks more and more like the scenario
00:48:29.100
and all these things that the Antichrist can come use,
00:48:35.060
that just strikes me how much what we see today
00:48:41.720
You know, I've heard Christians express anxiety
00:48:46.520
How can we bring children into this world knowing that things are going to get bad?
00:48:51.260
Whether you are pre-trib or post-trib, there's still people who just worry like,
00:48:57.920
okay, sure, I'll follow the Lord, but I don't know if I can subject my child
00:49:08.540
Well, I get asked that a lot at our church by young ladies at our church.
00:49:12.620
My daughter-in-laws have asked me about that before.
00:49:15.800
Whenever you talk about the rapture, you know, there's always someone comes up after church
00:49:19.320
and says, you know, I've got a little baby, you know, what's going to happen at the rapture
00:49:23.100
and these various things that can make people afraid.
00:49:26.360
You know, God wants us to live our lives in faith and in trust and in hope in Him.
00:49:32.200
And we have to leave a lot of these bigger things to God.
00:49:35.820
You know, I've found in my life, a lot of times I'll try to start thinking about things
00:49:41.620
And all it does is kind of just begin to mess you up.
00:49:48.720
he gave us spouses for those of us who are married,
00:49:52.980
he's given us people who love and care about us
00:49:58.760
and he wants us to be in relationship with others
00:50:06.300
is my wife, our two sons and our seven grandchildren
00:50:12.800
And so we don't want to get so caught up with, you know, what's going to happen in the future and all these bad things happening in the world, you know, that I don't want to have children and enjoy the incredible blessing that they are to us.
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You know, people have lived in human history in really, really difficult, dark times, really bad times.
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And they still had children and they still enjoyed the blessings of this life that God gives to them.
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You know, we can think, well, it's worse today than it's ever been in history.
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Some things are with all the technology we have.
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There's a lot more dangers out there, but we don't face the day-to-day threats on our
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life and all those things, at least here in America, that people have in other places.
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So I just think, you know, we live our life and we save money.
00:50:59.040
We do all those things as if, you know, the Lord's not coming back for 100 years, but
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we also live with an expectancy and anticipation that Jesus could come back at any time.
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And I know it's hard to hold those things in tension.
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But as much as I study prophecy and love Bible prophecy,
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I don't get up every day worrying about, well, what's going to happen to my grandchildren?
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I enjoy the blessings and the good of this life that God's given to me.
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And 1 Timothy 6 says, God has given us all things richly to enjoy.
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He looks down and he wants us to enjoy the blessings of this life that he's given to us.
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Now, it says in that same passage, he wants us to be generous and share.
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But we need to enjoy these blessings that God has given to us.
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And again, not to let these things overwhelm us or scare us and cause us to react in ways that I think are unbiblical.
00:52:00.920
For I know the plans I have for you, plans to prosper you and not to harm you.
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But backing up, God gives instructions to his people who are in exile, who are suffering,
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And he says, seek the welfare of the city in which I've placed you.
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And I'm sure there were generations that were spoken to by God who didn't see the end of
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And yet he said, invest in the city where I've placed you.
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And yet, seek the welfare of its inhabitants, and Christians are exiles in this life.
0.99
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And I believe that God calls us to do the same thing.
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Seek justice, love mercy, walk humbly with God, Micah 6, 8.
00:52:45.780
And all of that not only advances his kingdom, but all the things that we do,
00:52:50.900
whether it's raising our children with joy and with grace,
00:52:54.340
or whether it's trying to enact justice for unborn children,
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all of those things in the life of the believer somehow contribute to a greater glory that
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outweighs all of the trials that we're enduring today.
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And that's part of the faith aspect of Christianity is that we don't always see it, but we know
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that we always say God's eternal plan of redemption is going off without a hitch.
00:53:20.800
So just scholarly and interesting, but also not one driven at all by anxiety or paranoia
00:53:28.500
that piece and the knowledge that comes from studying scripture really does go hand in hand.
00:53:33.760
Tell us again where we can get your book, say the title again, and how people can follow you if they
00:53:39.860
want to. Sure. Yeah. The name of the book, this most recent book I've written, is called The
00:53:44.620
Persian Storm. It's about what's happening over with Iran today and with the United States,
00:53:49.140
with Israel. I have a website, marklhitchcock.com. I have a video. I do a video every week on YouTube.
00:53:58.640
So if people are interested in kind of keeping up
00:54:00.500
with some of the events that I cover there each week.
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They want to listen to messages that we bring there.
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But I have a website, marklhitchcock.com as well.
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I really appreciate your time and your insight.