Relatable with Allie Beth Stuckey - Ep 1369 ｜ ‘Big Food’ Poisoned America — Here’s How We’re Taking It Back ｜ Patrick & Ashley Sullivan

00:00:00.000 Did you know that Big Tobacco owns Big Food?

00:00:04.140 And that is one of the big reasons why our food market is filled with these ultra-processed

00:00:10.000 foods that are poisoning us.

00:00:11.720 Today, we have Patrick and Ashley Sullivan.

00:00:14.860 They created the documentary Breaking Big Food, talking about the corruption within

00:00:20.180 the food industry, also within the federal government, but also how we are breaking it

00:00:25.080 apart with our choices and by lobbying the government to make the right choices.

00:00:28.880 This is a fascinating, super educational conversation about health and all of the

00:00:34.360 systems that are working against us. You're going to love this episode.

00:00:38.680 Today's episode of Relatable is brought to you by our friends at Olive. See what is really in

00:00:43.920 your food. Before you buy it at the grocery store, just download the Olive app today.

00:00:48.340 That's the Olive app at the App Store.

00:00:58.880 Patrick and Ashley, thank you so much for taking the time to join me.

00:01:04.620 Can you all just tell me who you are and what you do, Ashley?

00:01:07.320 I am Ashley LaRue Sullivan.

00:01:09.140 I'm married to Patrick, and we are a husband and wife team.

00:01:12.380 We are super passionate about health.

00:01:14.140 We recently created a documentary called Breaking Big Food,

00:01:17.480 how the American food system went rotten and how it's being revived.

00:01:21.900 And we also own a coffee shop called Firefly Organic Coffee and Market

00:01:26.280 and Jigsaw Health, a nutritional supplement company that we've been running for essentially

00:01:31.640 20 years. Okay, what is Breaking Big Food? Well, Breaking Big Food, the full title is

00:01:38.040 How the American Food System Went Rotten and How It's Being Revived. It loosely follows the

00:01:45.220 creation of our coffee shop, Firefly, but also really looks at, through the lens of Cali Means,

00:01:51.760 how the food system went rotten over the past 40 years.

00:01:56.180 Okay. And tell us more about that. How did it go rotten? What is the culprit?

00:02:01.820 Well, in 1985, R.J. Reynolds, the maker of Camel cigarettes, purchased Nabisco for about $5 billion.

00:02:13.160 In 1988, Philip Morris, the maker of Marlboro cigarettes, they purchased Kraft Foods for about $13 billion.

00:02:20.880 And these are just two of the examples of Big Tobacco buying up the food companies that you know the names of.

00:02:29.240 By the 1990s, Big Tobacco actually controlled about 40% of the food supply in America.

00:02:36.360 What could go wrong, right?

00:02:37.620 Yeah.

00:02:38.200 Well, I was going to say, why?

00:02:40.140 Why did these tobacco companies buy the food companies?

00:02:42.940 Well, it was about that time that cigarettes were getting a bad rap.

00:02:46.180 And there was literally a campaign after campaign telling people cigarettes are going to kill you.

00:02:51.600 So they saw, number one, the industry that they were in was going down in flames and maybe saw an opportunity in the food industry to go in and say, well, maybe we are the addiction people.

00:03:05.820 Let's figure out how to apply what we know to process foods.

00:03:09.700 Going down in flames.

00:03:10.420 Was that a pun intended or?

00:03:12.300 It was.

00:03:12.940 Okay.

00:03:13.180 So basically it was just, they looked at the market and they said, look, it's going to get

00:03:18.540 harder and harder to make money off of this. We've got the government's, you know, breathing

00:03:23.220 down our necks, putting these warning labels on the cigarettes. How are we going to continue to

00:03:28.840 make money? And so they went into these food companies and they said, let's apply, as you

00:03:34.880 said, what we know about addiction and consumerism to food. How did that actually affect the ingredients

00:03:41.320 in the products at these companies?

00:03:43.660 Well, the first thing that they started to look at,

00:03:46.020 like any business does,

00:03:47.160 is how do we get our customers

00:03:48.580 to buy more of our products?

00:03:50.540 Oh, we make it taste better.

00:03:52.420 Yeah.

00:03:52.900 We make it, you know,

00:03:54.600 everyone remembers the Lay's ad,

00:03:56.900 no one can eat just one.

00:03:59.020 That wasn't a marketing campaign.

00:04:01.440 That was like a promise.

00:04:04.020 They basically worked with the tobacco scientists,

00:04:08.220 became food scientists,

00:04:09.520 And they began studying, like, how do we make, how do we tickle the pleasure centers of the brain with potato chips and candy and sodas?

00:04:21.020 And they found this sort of perfect mixture of fat, salt, and sweet that makes it so no one can eat just one.

00:04:29.000 Right. And did they sweeten what was already sweet and they made saltier what was already salty, right?

00:04:37.520 Yes and no.

00:04:38.440 I think they did a little bit of that,

00:04:40.580 but more so it was like ingredients

00:04:42.660 that were used as preservatives

00:04:45.080 and looking at like, you know,

00:04:48.000 switching from cane sugar to high fructose corn syrup,

00:04:51.260 which gives you the sweet, but for a lot less cost.

00:04:55.660 So like any business, you know,

00:04:57.560 the food companies were looking at,

00:04:58.980 how do we make our products last longer?

00:05:01.740 How do we make them less expensive

00:05:03.380 and still deliver the consumer promise?

00:05:06.700 that people expect when they open a bag of chips or pop open a soda.

00:05:10.460 Yeah. And the general public didn't really know that this was something that was happening.

00:05:15.620 Maybe they noticed there's more options on their grocery shelves. I don't know if y'all have

00:05:19.860 insight into how marketing and PR advertising was used to get people basically not to notice

00:05:26.760 or not to care about the changing ingredients on the back of the food that they were eating.

00:05:30.540 I think that, you know, they used other marketing tactics, like let's color this with Red Dye 40 and make it look really pretty.

00:05:38.280 Let's talk about, you know, let's do these fun ads.

00:05:41.100 Let's target children, make it fun for them to want to purchase these foods. 0.68

00:05:44.780 Let's put a toy inside of the cereal.

00:05:46.720 Let's give a free gift with a happy meal.

00:05:49.500 I mean, they pulled out all the stops.

00:05:50.880 And I also think about just like the health movements of the 1980s that weren't really about ingredients, but just about like, you know, no trans fat or low carb or things like that. And so something that was essentially really unhealthy was marketed as healthier, just, you know, based on arbitrary diet standards.

00:06:11.480 Yes. And speaking of diet standards, Patrick, do you want to talk a little bit about the food pyramid and how different it was and has been until RFK Jr. has flipped it on its head?

00:06:21.580 Yeah. Tell me about that.

00:06:22.660 Well, I think it's one of the best visual tactics that HHS has employed recently, this campaign to eat real food by flipping the food pyramid that came about in the 80s, 90s, which had at the very top of it, animal protein and saturated fat and olive oil and butter and dairy.

00:06:43.940 And at the bottom, grains and rice and pastas and was built, we now know, thanks to lobbying efforts on the behalf of grain producers and not really based on full scientific basis of what we as humans have been eating for centuries.

00:07:02.680 So flipping the food pyramid upside down, putting the emphasis on animal fats, on dairy, on vegetables, and really de-emphasizing grains in particular, I think seems to make a lot of sense given what we know about metabolic health.

00:07:23.260 it's actually insane to think about how that you know no pun intended is ingrained in our minds

00:07:30.220 that you should have the most amount of carbs that you can have and like a little bit of meat

00:07:35.680 like i'll be honest even as someone who knows the importance of protein that i can just feel that

00:07:40.720 underlying assumption in my mind that you should you know fill your plate with rice or potatoes

00:07:45.540 and like small vegetables small piece of chicken when the opposite is true it just goes to show

00:07:51.120 that what is taught in schools,

00:07:53.700 marketing, advertising by lobbyist groups

00:07:56.480 has a really big effect on your thoughts

00:08:00.000 and how you lead your life.

00:08:02.220 And it all for big food started with people

00:08:04.660 who just wanted to make more money

00:08:06.520 and didn't actually care about our health.

00:08:09.120 Are there any other examples that you found

00:08:11.300 in the making of this documentary

00:08:13.020 where Americans were convinced

00:08:15.040 that something is healthy and good

00:08:16.660 and it had nothing to do with health?

00:08:18.460 Well, one of the most eye-opening things for me was essentially realizing that there are seed oils in almost everything, even things that are marketed to be healthy.

00:08:31.380 And to be clear, seed oils are sunflower oil, canola oil. These are highly processed oils that become inflammatory during that process. Basically, they become oxidized and they're cheap to use.

00:08:47.380 so if if you're listening and you're like not quite sure what to stay away from in terms of

00:08:52.240 seed oils coconut oil avocado oil olive oil those are very good oils those are kind of the ones i

00:08:57.980 stick to those are not seed oil those are not seed oils yes but the safflower sunflower canola

00:09:04.620 all of those oils that have been very heavily processed those are the oxidized rancid right

00:09:12.480 Yes, and then they deodorize them. It's a very industrial process to create seed oil. It was originally machine lubricant. It was oil that went into machines in the World War II, during World War II, because it was a cheap way to produce a lubricant.

00:09:32.060 Yeah, it is crazy. The health foods that like Annie's, Annie's Mac and Cheese, Annie's Bunnies, they're better than Cheez-Its for some reasons. But you know, there's seed oil and those baby formula. I know a lot of times has sunflower oil or canola oil. And so people can really feel like they don't have any true options without seed oils.

00:09:53.280 I mean, even like hummus and what you think of as maybe a more healthy salad dressing, Italian salad dressing, or anything that's like pre-prepared, start looking at the labels because they sneak that in everything.

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00:11:05.420 would you say that the reason that these food companies use these cheaper ingredients is

00:11:15.700 just to make money or is there some other more nefarious thing going on

00:11:20.420 i mean it's hard to like guess what the motives necessarily are i mean profit motive you know

00:11:29.340 the phrase follow the money is pretty good at predicting uh what you will see happen and for

00:11:36.620 them to say okay uh we could use extra virgin olive oil but we can get this stuff from canada

00:11:44.360 called canola oil that's made from rapeseed terrible branding name but canola comes from

00:11:50.100 canada oil and it's made from rapeseed and it's one tenth of the price yeah is it safe

00:11:57.320 everyone else is using it and that's really i think the main issue is you know then with the

00:12:03.940 consumers not being educated and not even understanding that the seed oils are harming

00:12:08.100 their health they're looking at price tags so they're going to go down the grocery aisle they're

00:12:11.940 seeing all these different salad dressings and they're looking at the prices and if there's one

00:12:15.960 italian salad dressing that is using extra virgin olive oil and it's two dollars more than the one

00:12:22.080 next to it that isn't and they don't know to look or know the difference i mean as a business

00:12:27.080 owner they're going we're not going to be able to keep up yeah you know unless more companies start

00:12:32.980 doing this too i don't think we can make it there's not enough demand for what we're doing

00:12:38.440 right and that's why we're so passionate about like let's help educate people on what

00:12:42.680 they need to be looking for so that they can be educated to vote with their wallet to demand

00:12:48.760 better and protect their own health yeah yeah what is when you say big food because we say that about

00:12:55.060 a lot of things, big tobacco, big, you know, everything. What is big food?

00:13:01.800 I think it's loosely defined as the large health company. I'm sorry, health companies. What a

00:13:08.320 funny kind of thing to say there. The large food companies that are making highly processed foods.

00:13:15.340 And allegedly, Robert F. Kennedy has stated that we will be getting a definition of what

00:13:22.320 highly processed foods actually stands for are ultra processed foods. So it'll be very interesting

00:13:28.540 if by defining what an ultra processed food is, that creates the impetus to create essentially

00:13:35.960 the same kind of black box warnings that ended up on cigarettes. That seems like the direction that

00:13:42.220 HHS is headed. And obviously that worked when it came to, you know, decreasing the demand

00:13:50.880 of tobacco. And so it's a possibility that that could decrease the demand of highly processed

00:14:00.720 foods or at least warn people what they're doing with their bodies when they're consuming them.

00:14:05.860 Y'all released kind of like a cheat sheet to help people understand what they're eating,

00:14:10.860 what ingredients to look for, right? Can you talk more about that?

00:14:14.040 Yes. We started getting so many questions from people like, okay, this just feels totally

00:14:17.620 overwhelming. I don't know how to read a label. I don't even know what these words mean. So we

00:14:22.460 created the dirty dozen ingredients to avoid. And it's just a PDF you can download on breaking

00:14:28.020 big food.com. You don't have to register for anything. You literally just click it and it's

00:14:32.580 made for you to like keep on your fridge or save it on your phone so that as you are starting to

00:14:36.980 shop down the grocery aisles, you at least have something to reference. And they're kind of the

00:14:41.540 most common offenders on there, like the seed oils, the artificial flavors, MSG, like the gums

00:14:49.480 and the emulsifiers that are just in so many things that can be really disruptive to the gut

00:14:55.620 and the microbiome. What would you say is maybe one ingredient that people don't know to look for?

00:15:01.180 I've heard a lot of people talk about seed oils and different things, but what would you say is

00:15:05.580 may be one that doesn't get enough attention that people need to look out for? I think natural

00:15:12.040 flavors can be tricky. Sometimes they can be from naturally derived sources, but specifically if

00:15:19.600 they are used in savory foods, a lot of times it can be code for MSG. And what is MSG?

00:15:27.160 It's, how do you say it? Monosodium glutamate. The concern is that it's an excitotoxin,

00:15:32.920 a neurotoxin to the brain at specific dosages.

00:15:36.520 And it does have a natural sort of savory flavor to it.

00:15:40.800 So think of like your stovetop stuffing kind of thing

00:15:45.000 that has natural flavors.

00:15:46.800 That natural flavors is likely a monosodium glutamate.

00:15:50.560 I had no idea that natural flavors

00:15:52.540 could be a code word for MSG.

00:15:54.740 When I think MSG, I think Chinese food.

00:15:57.400 I know. 1.00

00:15:57.860 I don't know why.

00:15:58.880 I just always associate it with orange chicken.

00:16:01.300 Yeah.

00:16:01.500 And that's it.

00:16:02.220 But you're saying it could be in something that's marketed as healthy, that doesn't have any other bad ingredients, but it does have natural flavors, which honestly, a lot of times I've kind of just resigned myself to being like, well, that's the only thing in it, then whatever.

00:16:16.100 But you're saying it could be MSG.

00:16:17.980 It could be.

00:16:18.440 Yeah, and that would be something that you kind of look at the FDA and say, I think they're asleep at the wheel here on yet another issue regarding food labeling.

00:16:28.620 i think most americans want to know they want to educate themselves they want to feed their

00:16:36.820 families healthy food and they're sort of expecting fda whoever is in charge of what

00:16:44.040 is on the grocery store shelves they kind of expect that the fda has kind of done their homework

00:16:49.120 they're sadly mistaken that there are loopholes like natural flavors there's also the loopholes

00:16:56.960 of grass, generally recognized as safe, where in America, you have to prove harm rather than

00:17:06.660 proving safety. So for the past 30 years, the FDA was overwhelmed and they allowed big food to begin

00:17:14.700 introducing new chemicals into the food supply that they allow the food companies to self-regulate

00:17:22.280 as well we think that's generally recognized as safe and as a result uh you hear claims i'm not

00:17:29.700 sure if the number is correct but there's about 10 000 chemicals in the united states that are

00:17:36.560 allowed to be used under generally recognized as safe principles and those same chemicals are not

00:17:43.320 allowed to be used in europe so you end up with the example of people i went to italy and ate

00:17:50.020 pizza for two weeks and I came back and I felt fine while I was there. But my doctor told me I

00:17:56.900 was celiac and I can't eat pizza and gluten here, but I ate it while I was over there and I felt

00:18:01.580 fine. Maybe it's not the gluten. It might be all the other junk that is generally recognized as

00:18:09.240 safe and might not actually be. I think all of us want to be able to trust the FDA or just trust

00:18:16.420 the experts in general in anything, I think COVID taught us that we can't necessarily do that,

00:18:21.600 that we do have to take charge of our own health, but not everyone feels like they have the capacity

00:18:26.820 or the knowledge to do that. It's so overwhelming. Yeah. And they just want to be able to trust

00:18:31.920 the FDA. And a lot of people just assume that the FDA is doing their job and rigorously testing

00:18:38.160 every single ingredient. But you're saying that that kind of testing isn't really happening.

00:18:43.080 Do you have any insight into, like, what is the process of actually testing ingredients that are on the market?

00:18:50.380 Well, first of all, the FDA does not actually do any testing themselves.

00:18:54.800 They read the reports that are done by other third-party laboratories.

00:18:59.040 And so some of the most common testing done on food would be heavy metals and heavy metals like lead and mercury and arsenic.

00:19:09.900 That they know are poisonous.

00:19:10.980 Yeah, that we know clearly are poisonous at a certain threshold.

00:19:16.120 Now, the irony is that the threshold is somewhat debated sometimes where they're like, well, a little pinch of lead might be OK, but a whole spoonful is probably bad for you.

00:19:27.020 And there probably, I believe, is truth to that.

00:19:30.920 The dose makes the poison.

00:19:32.380 um but then uh the other things that they will commonly test for uh would be things like

00:19:38.980 microbiology and like bacteria e coli would be a specific one we've probably all heard of when

00:19:44.820 you know spinach gets recalled because e coli was spotted but it's not the fda that does that

00:19:50.600 testing and it really is sort of batch specific it's not every piece of food that gets tested

00:19:58.440 before you eat it. So, so testing can miss some stuff and there isn't like one machine that just

00:20:06.720 tests everything. When you go to test, and this is something that we did with our Firefly coffee,

00:20:12.660 we were specifically looking for very clean coffee. So we sent it to labs that tested like

00:20:20.320 four different pages worth of stuff, heavy metals, microbiology that we talked about,

00:20:25.520 But we were also looking for glyphosate and other pesticides and microplastics and mycotoxins and mold.

00:20:32.480 And those kinds of tests are not at all regularly done on most food.

00:20:39.280 Yeah.

00:20:40.000 So who is testing the ingredients and considering them generally, what does grass stand for?

00:20:47.780 Recognized as safe.

00:20:48.440 Recognized as safe.

00:20:50.400 Well, that process involves sort of a lot of science and sort of a lot of guesswork of, okay, well, this derivative of this chemical, we're not aware of any danger that has happened, so we're probably okay to use it.

00:21:09.060 So really what the American scientists and the American food system and really FDA relies on is like warnings and, okay, it seems like there's been an outbreak of something, but then you're literally having to try and prove harm.

00:21:23.660 And it often turns into, you know, court cases and trial trial lawyers. And it's it's I would guess I would call it innovator friendly where, you know, here in America, I think that we have a very entrepreneurial spirit and, you know, we are entrepreneurs.

00:21:41.860 I'm very much in favor of that, but also sometimes you can get a little out over your skis and

00:21:49.320 if there's not enough regulatory sort of hold back of like, wait, are we sure that that's safe?

00:21:56.040 You end up with, you know, basically too much leeway. I mean, I think that the tension between

00:22:01.700 innovation and regulation should be there. It should exist for the safety of all Americans and people.

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00:23:15.820 You mentioned glyphosate. What is glyphosate? Well, glyphosate is something that companies

00:23:22.200 like Monsanto spray on the crops to kill the bugs, essentially. Well, hold on. Monsanto is

00:23:29.540 the creator of glyphosate most commonly known as roundup uh monsanto was acquired by bear

00:23:38.040 uh the makers of aspirin uh however many years ago and so glyphosate has been increasingly used

00:23:46.240 on crops in america uh starting really in the 1990s and it was this very sort of novel pesticide

00:23:56.240 because it didn't kill the crop.

00:23:59.520 It didn't kill the plant.

00:24:00.600 It uses this specific pathway

00:24:03.680 that is quote unquote safe for humans.

00:24:06.980 So it's not dangerous for humans.

00:24:09.460 Well, what they didn't kind of take into account

00:24:11.760 is that our microbiome, those bugs have,

00:24:16.420 I believe it's called the shimake pathway.

00:24:20.680 We would have to fact check me on that.

00:24:22.860 But it's like the shimake pathway

00:24:24.920 that our gut bacteria does have.

00:24:29.380 So humans don't have it, but our gut bacteria does. 0.89

00:24:31.840 So glyphosate can wreak havoc on the gut microbiome.

00:24:36.120 And once you wreak havoc on that,

00:24:37.760 well, that's your ability for your immune system,

00:24:40.000 your digestion, and really, you are what you eat.

00:24:43.720 So like food as fuel, we need that to function.

00:24:47.780 And if we're not breaking down the fuel properly,

00:24:51.700 we're in trouble.

00:24:52.220 Like how many people do you know with gut issues?

00:24:53.520 yeah so many I mean everyone I know I do I didn't used to but for some reason over the past couple

00:25:00.280 of years I've just been become totally intolerant to gluten and it was really just making me sick

00:25:06.020 and making me feel bad I was down for the count I never thought I could give up bread but it made

00:25:10.460 me feel so bad that I stopped and I'm very aware that you know like you said earlier it could be

00:25:16.200 that I would go to Europe and I would be totally fine but you know it's tough in America to be able

00:25:22.760 to navigate all of that. So it's just kind of easier to restrict. But for people who really

00:25:27.760 have gut issues with everything, it's like you can only restrict so much. So yeah, so many people in

00:25:33.260 our lives struggle with that. Yeah, it's sad. The real problem with glyphosate, as it's gotten

00:25:40.480 even worse, particularly with bread, is that it's used as a desiccant. Essentially, it dries out

00:25:47.440 wheat right before they're about to plow the field, uh, to harvest wheat. And, and the reason

00:25:54.760 they use glyphosate is it's very, it just works really well at drying out the wheat. So you can

00:26:00.660 schedule the cloud, the, the plow, uh, within like, you know, a couple of days makes it predictable.

00:26:07.820 So it makes it predictable, which means it makes it scalable and more efficient and therefore

00:26:11.740 obviously more profitable. But yeah, I think glyphosate being in the news recently has been

00:26:19.560 an important addition to the conversation. And I think Americans are waking up to the challenges

00:26:26.600 that they may be having with relation to glyphosate. And it's also the kind of thing that because we've

00:26:32.080 been using this way of farming for so long and using glyphosate on the crops, it's not something

00:26:37.140 you just like outlaw stop using it completely and we'll have enough food for everybody it's

00:26:41.840 definitely takes a transition to figure out a way to grow enough crops without using the glyphosate

00:26:49.160 right yeah the biggest part how this kind of came up in the news is that president trump

00:26:54.020 signed an executive order that basically shielded bear the owner the maker of glyphosate roundup

00:27:01.200 from liability because there have been, I believe, hundreds, possibly thousands of cases working

00:27:08.180 their way through the court system in America of harm caused by glyphosate. Interestingly enough,

00:27:17.140 about 10 years ago or so, RFK Jr. was a part of the legal counsel that helped a man in California,

00:27:25.000 I believe it was, uh, get 200 ish million dollars in damages from Monsanto at the time

00:27:32.780 for developing non Hodgkin's lymphoma because of chronic roundup exposure in his job. So

00:27:40.620 there is precedent and there are many cases coming through, I believe. So RFK was on Joe

00:27:47.820 Rogan a few weeks ago talking about how he really, I mean, he kind of threaded the needle

00:27:52.720 in terms of saying, well, I don't agree with the president's executive order because I think we

00:27:59.300 need to transition out glyphosate from the use on American crops. But that's a decades long

00:28:08.600 transition. And in the meantime, if we stopped, we probably would have problems in the food supply

00:28:18.460 overnight. So I think he understands that the world is not always black and white. And there

00:28:24.240 are sometimes transitionary periods that have to happen. So do we know the reasoning behind

00:28:32.140 why President Trump, though, would shield them from liability? Maybe it's one thing to say,

00:28:37.300 we're not going to ban it. But if it's causing cancer, then yeah, you have to be liable for it.

00:28:45.620 And maybe we don't know.

00:28:47.060 I'm just kind of speculating and wondering.

00:28:49.580 I'm sure there are just, as in all politics, there are interests, there is money, there

00:28:54.920 is lobbying, there are a lot of farmers that are pro-glyphosate because, as you said, it's

00:29:02.180 more predictable, which is more profitable.

00:29:04.520 They might not be thinking nefariously.

00:29:06.640 They may be thinking, I've got to keep my company alive and feed my family.

00:29:10.360 And right now, there's not another alternative.

00:29:12.100 it's just unfortunate that you know maha put trump in office and this is not part of their

00:29:18.960 agenda that's being pushed forward no it feels kind of like a slap in the face it does and at

00:29:23.800 the same time you know it's really impossible to know what happens really behind the closed doors

00:29:27.700 and what they're truly dealing with you made such a great point just yeah a lot of different money

00:29:34.320 a lot of different motives a lot of who knows you know what president trump has been up against

00:29:40.280 as he was maybe strong-armed into doing it.

00:29:44.300 It's really impossible to know,

00:29:45.740 but I know that so many people are super frustrated with this

00:29:47.960 and they want answers to it,

00:29:49.580 and I wish we had more information to share.

00:29:52.560 And that's why a big part of our film

00:29:54.860 is trying to help educate Americans

00:29:57.940 so that they can vote differently with their wallet.

00:30:02.140 We definitely need changes to happen from the top down.

00:30:05.520 We need regulatory changes, and some of those are happening.

00:30:08.880 but we have a responsibility for our own health yeah and as Maya Angelou said when you know better

00:30:15.620 do better and the fact is every American votes with their wallet every single day based on what

00:30:23.120 they're purchasing you might be able to eat bread if you bought it from a local baker that was using

00:30:29.280 organic flour making sourdough the way that it's been made for millennia right um you you might

00:30:37.720 find that you're able to eat eggs if you're buying eggs from a chicken farmer that's local

00:30:43.460 that doesn't feed soy and corn to their chickens. So there are really ways to not only improve your

00:30:51.280 own health, but to improve the local food system around you in your own community. And that's a

00:30:57.840 big part of, you know, the second half of the title is how the American food system is being

00:31:02.420 revived so it's possible to avoid glyphosate because obviously it's not an ingredient on the

00:31:09.520 back of yeah on the back of something do people just should they just assume that almost everything

00:31:14.920 that they buy in the grocery store does have a form of roundup on it and do they only go to you

00:31:20.760 know local bakeries how do you navigate that as a regular consumer well that's what i do i basically

00:31:26.620 just assume that if it's not organic it was likely sprayed with glyphosate at some point

00:31:31.560 So organic, the organic label means that there is no glyphosate, because I know that sometimes organic is misleading.

00:31:37.880 Organic is supposed to mean not treated with glyphosate.

00:31:41.160 Yeah, and the problem is you end up with like, well, we tested this California organic wine, and it has glyphosate in it.

00:31:48.540 The challenge with that, of course, is not that they're spraying with, they're probably not spraying glyphosate on their winery.

00:31:56.100 It's just, it's cross-pollinating from the winery next door.

00:32:00.540 um glyphosate being used so heavily over the last three four decades means that it's like

00:32:07.160 everywhere yeah uh so even if it's not being sprayed and that's why when we got our coffee

00:32:12.540 beans that they said oh this is from a registered organic farm we said okay we'll see yeah yeah but

00:32:19.340 i would say you know that and that feels daunting too because then you're like but okay so then how

00:32:23.840 do i protect myself and my family right um i think if you're not buying organic you know the grains

00:32:29.440 are one of the worst offenders so maybe just do your best to just steer clear of the grains and

00:32:34.820 when you're buying produce look for things that have a um like a peel like a banana or avocado

00:32:40.640 that has a skin on it or a potato that you're gonna peel um and you know you can wash your

00:32:46.940 berries and your fruit really well um to to get it clean you know get the glyphosate there's like a

00:32:53.760 baking soda water uh combination that you can do there's lots of videos online about it but

00:32:59.080 there are ways you can work around it, especially if you're like on a budget and you're like, oh my

00:33:02.560 gosh, all this organic stuff is killing me. I can't afford to shop this way. So yeah,

00:33:08.120 just do the best you can. It's about direction, not perfection.

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00:34:15.180 i've noticed there are so many options now more than there were five years ago certainly more than

00:34:25.280 there were 10 years ago before i even knew what a seed oil was there are whole brands now dedicated

00:34:30.420 to no seed oils and hopefully you know no preservatives or no bad ingredients do you see

00:34:37.440 that as a part of breaking up big food i mean i think that the demand is growing because the

00:34:43.680 awareness is growing and these big companies I mean they're in business too they're seeing where

00:34:48.800 the trend is heading they're smart so they're saying okay I guess people are caring now it's

00:34:52.880 time to start making these shifts which I think is amazing I'm super grateful as a consumer

00:34:57.000 but you know like we say in breaking big food it's like the best way to break big food is to

00:35:02.760 start taking ownership of our own health and start making better choices every day and if you've ever

00:35:08.900 had french fries fried in tallow yeah they are delicious so much better than french fries fried

00:35:14.380 in canola yeah and how else is big food being broken up well from the top down early on one

00:35:24.200 of the first things that rfk jr started to focus on was petroleum-based food dyes um i give credit

00:35:31.480 to the food babe for doing a lot of posting on social media showing like here's what fruit loops

00:35:37.900 in America look like. And here's what Froot Loops in Canada and the rest of the world look like.

00:35:43.820 And they're way brighter in America and way duller in the rest of the world. Why is that? Well,

00:35:51.640 it's because in the rest of the world, they're not allowed to use these petroleum-based food dyes.

00:35:56.280 So they use beet juice and other basically food-based colors to color the food. And

00:36:05.360 the reports that we heard is rfk brought all the big food companies together for a big meeting

00:36:12.380 meeting and said okay we're going to first tackle food dyes because there's absolutely no reason for

00:36:17.960 them and what you kind of heard was the food companies were like thank you because they were

00:36:25.020 in this kind of position where well if kellogg's can keep using red 40 nabisco doesn't really have

00:36:33.100 an incentive to remove red 40 because it means their food would not only be duller in color but

00:36:38.680 it would cost more so they were like look if you regulate the entire industry and remove petroleum

00:36:45.940 based food dyes we're fine with that yeah that to me sounds like hallelujah kind of moment uh just

00:36:53.360 change the playing field the fda has been sitting on red dye three or four i can't remember they've

00:37:02.980 been sitting on that for a long time it has been outlawed in cosmetics for over 20 years because

00:37:08.800 it causes cancer yes but go ahead and put it in the kids cereal no problem because it causes cancer

00:37:14.080 when you put it on your lips but once you put it behind your lips down your down your down into

00:37:18.700 your belly oh don't worry about it no big deal uh another shout out would go to a wonderful 0.69

00:37:24.240 documentary called to die for d-y-e to die for yeah i've seen that came out oh it's really good 0.94

00:37:30.320 year ago talks about you know how they took their son off of all food dyes and wouldn't you know it 0.79

00:37:36.980 the hyperactivity the adhd it changed his whole disappeared yeah and it's crazy how that kind of

00:37:42.620 thing is seen as some kind of kooky conspiracy theory yeah that there couldn't possibly be

00:37:47.980 anything to the idea that what you put in your body has an effect on your brain or has an effect

00:37:52.440 on how you live your life at all yeah when it really is just like the most common sense thing

00:37:57.040 and it shouldn't be political either right right it shouldn't be partisan to that we we i said to

00:38:03.560 callie in the film i'm glad that the documentarian captured it kind of popped out of my mouth i said

00:38:08.620 um you know we've been divided in this country for so long politically maybe food is the thing

00:38:17.460 that begins to unite us uh i said that almost about a year and a half ago unfortunately what

00:38:24.900 we've seen is food has become even more political now with RFK, a former Democrat being someone that

00:38:32.060 now all Democrats are angry at because he's trying to take away the Froot Loops from the

00:38:37.140 children or something like that. Or they're taking Coca-Cola away from Snap. No, they're

00:38:43.480 basically just saying that food stamps you can't use for sugary soda. That's not what it was

00:38:49.300 intended for yeah meanwhile snap has been responsible like 10 or more i believe of snap

00:38:55.640 dollars have gone to coca-cola and pepsi yeah that doesn't seem like what we want to do that

00:39:02.280 that doesn't make sense and you shouldn't force me to cover the cost of poisoning poor people

00:39:07.400 no i'm sorry no kidding like it just that's evil that's wrong why should i be forced to give over

00:39:13.960 my hard-earned dollars to make a poor person more likely to get cancer that's not compassionate

00:39:20.640 that's really cruel but they frame it in such a way where you're literally taking candy from a

00:39:26.200 baby and that is why it's really hard also to get policy changed and to get regulations changed

00:39:32.720 because of the you know propaganda the marketing and pr surrounding it it sounds like y'all are

00:39:38.540 saying obviously a lot of the responsibility is up to the individual and because we can't just

00:39:43.420 weight for big food and for the government to do their jobs, but also that there is responsibility

00:39:50.820 when it comes to the federal government to change regulations, to make it easier for Americans

00:39:56.240 to have more choices, right? Absolutely. I think it's estimated that at least half of Americans'

00:40:04.740 daily calories come from ultra-processed foods, whether it's fast food or packaged food,

00:40:12.820 you know lunchables those kinds of things convenience foods half of our calories are

00:40:16.980 coming from ultra processed foods and i'm putting food in air quotes here just because it's sort of

00:40:24.480 marketed as a food does not mean it's real food and that's really the big push from uh hhs right

00:40:32.100 now there's just recently announced dr oz talking about hospitals he wants to see hospitals take

00:40:39.080 away uh sodas and the ultra processed foods that are being served in hospitals exactly i mean i've

00:40:46.900 given birth three times and thankfully that's the only time i've had to stay in the hospital

00:40:50.980 but anyone who has stayed in a hospital know that they give you the kool-aid this grossest stuff it

00:40:57.560 doesn't taste good and it's horrible for you yes no vegetables no real protein just slop like

00:41:04.260 cafeteria slap. And a lot of times these are people who are dying. They need it the most.

00:41:08.600 Recovering from surgery. They need their immune systems to be strong. Like, let me just pump you

00:41:12.880 with a bunch of dyes and seed oils to make you inflamed. It doesn't make any sense. And you're

00:41:17.500 right. There's no reason for it. Just no reason for it. Yeah. Dr. Oz told a story about when he

00:41:23.060 was first starting at, I think it was Columbia University as a new doctor. The chief residents

00:41:28.460 would say, well, the, they were the doctors, you know, they would bring them food. It was from the

00:41:34.540 hospital and the chief residents would say, don't eat the food. The food will get, the food will

00:41:39.200 make you sick, but that's the food they were feeding to all the patients in ICU. Yeah. It

00:41:44.700 doesn't make any sense. It's the upside down world. Yeah, totally. That's one of the things

00:41:49.160 that we were inspired by when we created Firefly Coffee and Market. We source grass-fed

00:41:58.260 local grass-fed meat, raw milk, farm-fresh eggs, things that you can't get in your normal grocery

00:42:04.040 store. And I would love to see more communities doing something like this, these little micro

00:42:09.080 markets. Yeah, it's in Scottsdale. And we were inspired by another one of the stories in our

00:42:14.160 documentary called Good Living Greens. This amazing couple in Fountain Hills, Arizona,

00:42:19.640 they started to have their own issues with some health challenges. And so they cleaned up their

00:42:25.160 food they were going to one farm to get their produce another to get their eggs and their milk

00:42:30.300 and they would do their weekly trips and then they started to have friends say hey can you grab me

00:42:34.880 some while you're there because like I don't have time to hit the farmer's market this week and

00:42:38.560 then they decided you know what what if we were to create a little market where we have the local

00:42:44.080 farmers bring us deliveries of what they're harvesting and we source all these things in

00:42:49.580 one place for our community to just come and shop here right and it's so brilliant and so i think

00:42:56.360 if more communities had a little setup like that where there are more micro markets to help bring

00:43:01.320 the local farmers to the people as a resource it would be an amazing step in the right direction

00:43:06.760 convenience being the key innovation there where we as the aggregators can get a weekly milk

00:43:15.260 delivery and a weekly uh honey delivery from you know a weekly organic sourdough bread delivery

00:43:22.580 all these things coming to one place it helps the producers and it helps the it helps the people

00:43:28.620 that are within you know five ten minutes of firefly to stop in do almost 90 percent of their

00:43:35.540 grocery shopping for the week and pick up a delicious organic latte with collagen boost

00:43:40.780 while they're there. Yeah. So it's this sort of beautiful vision of like make food local again.

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00:44:40.780 I want to talk about childhood obesity for a little bit.

00:44:44.840 Most people in this audience have kids and it's a struggle for a lot of parents to feed

00:44:50.380 their kids the right things, or maybe they just feel like, I don't know, their kid is

00:44:54.440 addicted to the screen, which is a whole other conversation.

00:44:57.280 But the fact is in America that 17% or no, in the last 17 years, obesity has increased

00:45:04.120 to 21%. Chronic conditions because of that obesity have been rising sharply. And I'm just

00:45:12.580 curious if you all think childhood obesity is because of these ingredients that we're talking

00:45:19.280 about. Are there other factors? What do you think is going on here? Well, if I'm not mistaken,

00:45:26.020 62 percent of calories that kids age one through 18 consume 62 percent of those calories are

00:45:35.540 ultra processed foods do you think that that's having a impact on the weight of children right

00:45:42.480 yep absolutely and that's what they're getting in cafeterias too right and these companies are

00:45:47.820 directly marketing to children i mean they're trying to they're playing the commercials on the

00:45:53.160 whatever shows these kids are watching and then they beg their parents for it or the

00:45:58.180 the kid next to them at the lunch table has all these fun fruit snacks and whatever else

00:46:02.760 in their lunch and that's what they want and they don't want to be the weird kid with the

00:46:06.280 healthy things in their lunch box i mean there's just so many things um but sadly kids are the

00:46:11.480 target right for this type of food yeah it is really such a blessing when you have moms in

00:46:17.200 your kids class who are on the same page as you and i love the text like uh yeah we're bringing

00:46:22.040 a dye-free snack today and it can be really hard to navigate because it's hard to be that one

00:46:27.300 parent that's like actually we don't want those cupcakes because like we don't we don't do dyes

00:46:32.800 and i'm sure there's a there's a balance there um but this is another one of those things where

00:46:38.600 it just takes some deliberate discipline on the part of parents to like make that one replacement

00:46:45.160 um and it really is like it's an investment in your child's future even if it's a hard thing

00:46:50.960 in the moment a huge investment and we're hoping our film breaking big food will be an inspirational

00:46:58.740 thing that families can watch together to get a sense for where food comes from why most of the

00:47:06.180 ultra processed packaged foods is not going to be healthy for your family and to get a sense of like

00:47:13.440 you know cooking together as a family is an important if not sacred ritual that has been

00:47:20.260 done for millennia. And it actually leads to healthier outcomes for families anyways. So,

00:47:27.060 you know, movies like ours, documentaries like To Die For, which we talked about,

00:47:33.480 D.Y.E. And even a great film, The Biggest Little Farm, that shows a couple transitioning a

00:47:41.500 monocropped field into a organic regenerative farm over the course of seven years. That was a big

00:47:49.920 inspiration for us. And I think it is the answer for how to make food small and local again.

00:47:57.240 Yeah. My oldest daughter and I were reading the Little House on the Prairie series,

00:48:01.740 which of course is set in the late 1800s. And it's very descriptive about how the moms and

00:48:07.380 the kids are making the food, even the dad's contributions to that process, usually hunting,

00:48:12.420 and then how the kids spend their days. And it's just, I mean, it really hearkens you back to a

00:48:17.880 time that you really want to go back to, but everything, the pace was slow and deliberate

00:48:23.780 and the preparations and the thought for the next season were just so intentional and the

00:48:30.200 kids spent their days working, playing, a mixture of both, but it was never, ever, except

00:48:35.580 for Sunday afternoons, just sitting down and doing nothing.

00:48:39.260 So it's such a combination, I think, of all of these things of idleness.

00:48:43.680 I don't think that we are productive enough as people.

00:48:46.100 We don't make our kids be productive enough. And then also, yeah, like where we're getting our food and the detachment that we have from our food that contributes to this whole vicious cycle.

00:48:56.140 Yeah, I think helping the kids fall in love with food, real food and like the process of making it, like Patrick said, like do a family day to the farmer's market once a week so that the kids can like meet the farmers and like see all the what does produce look like when it's like just straight from the dirt?

00:49:13.200 you know it's just I think um getting back to that yeah buy a planter and plant some tomatoes

00:49:19.740 or some strawberries yeah I feel like I saw a clip online of like a kid like picking a strawberry

00:49:28.160 and was like wait so we can just actually eat it yeah like we don't have to go to the grocery

00:49:33.320 store to get it like we have become so detached from where food comes from and that's such a

00:49:39.320 beautiful description the little house on the prairie yeah sort of like i mean food shelter

00:49:45.860 water that's kind of the things that we actually need we don't need internet yeah we don't need

00:49:52.340 facebook yeah we don't need instagram like we enjoy them sort of but we don't need them yeah

00:50:01.120 they actually make you feel bad after you use them unlike when you make something really good

00:50:06.060 that sustains your family, it makes you feel good.

00:50:08.180 So we should be doing more of the things

00:50:10.100 that make us feel actually good in a lasting way

00:50:12.480 with our families.

00:50:13.100 I think that could, it could change a lot.

00:50:15.520 Yeah, tomato book.

00:50:18.040 Yeah, it didn't land, sorry.

00:50:19.960 I was thinking that could be the new social media,

00:50:23.820 tomato book.

00:50:24.820 Oh, okay.

00:50:25.660 Instead of Facebook, Strawberry Graham.

00:50:28.500 Okay, you know what?

00:50:30.080 The only reason we're gonna cut it out,

00:50:32.040 we don't want anyone to steal your business idea.

00:50:36.060 that's right i'm pretty sure the crew is laughing at me not with me you know they laugh at me every

00:50:40.480 single day okay y'all used to be in a band so you haven't always been in the health space

00:50:48.460 what inspired y'all to go this direction well in 2014 patrick was diagnosed with thyroid cancer

00:50:58.780 um and that was i mean we were pretty in the middle of you know in being you know rock stars

00:51:05.120 right we would just we would play weddings and corporate events and it was a very fun time but

00:51:09.000 we were living on a lot of convenience food i would say doing our best to be healthy make good

00:51:14.160 choices but again i didn't know there were seed oils in the hummus you know i wasn't really

00:51:18.160 educated on how to read a nutrition label at that time and i'm not blaming all of it on that but all

00:51:24.760 i know is the doctors couldn't tell us how he got the cancer or how maybe he can avoid getting in

00:51:30.620 the future, they were like, we can cut it out and you're going to be fine. You'll take a pill the

00:51:35.060 rest of your life. It was very traumatic. Um, but it was very frustrating at the same time to

00:51:40.880 just not have any answers. And, um, so it was always just kind of sitting in the back of our

00:51:47.540 minds. And, um, as owners of a nutritional supplement company also, it's like, okay, well,

00:51:52.400 we know how important it is to supplement ourselves with, with basic things, you know,

00:51:58.400 vitamin C, magnesium, things like that. But they're just, that's what it is. It's a supplement.

00:52:03.020 It's not meant to replace your food. So then we started to dig even further. And the more we

00:52:07.260 learned about the food supply and just how broken and upside down everything is, the more passionate

00:52:13.200 we got. Can you talk a little bit more about that just from your perspective, being diagnosed with

00:52:18.900 cancer and realizing there's something that's got to change? Yeah, it was weird. It was just

00:52:25.640 one day driving home from work, kind of felt a lump on my throat and I was like, hmm, that seems a

00:52:31.660 little weird. About three weeks later, first heard those three little words, not the I love you that

00:52:38.780 I love it when you say, but the three words you have cancer. And it was the scariest words I've

00:52:47.360 ever heard. Anybody that has ever heard that knows that sinking feeling that you have and you have it

00:52:53.900 together right um and it was almost like three months of like almost throwing up every morning

00:53:01.300 not because i felt any different like i didn't feel like i had cancer but it was the stress

00:53:08.460 yeah of this like you have cancer playing on a loop and we went and got three maybe four

00:53:15.700 second opinions but yeah like ashley said there was nobody that could explain well here's how it

00:53:21.900 got there. Just make sure you don't do this again. And because thyroid cancer is a slow growing

00:53:28.460 cancer, it's also very slow to die with sort of the natural path, the natural treatments that

00:53:36.080 may work. I would say we kind of started to go down that path, but because of the stress of this

00:53:43.380 loop playing in the back of my head, we decided to get a surgical removal. Thankfully, knock on

00:53:50.100 would, I was able to dial in my thyroid medication, uh, just fine, been well supported. And quite

00:53:56.480 frankly, for, I don't know, seven, eight years after that, we kind of just closed the chapter

00:54:03.520 on that stressful year, 2014. Um, hearing Cali means speak and, uh, the summer of 2024

00:54:12.840 was the thing that I felt like had a spark for both of us to hear how the American foods

00:54:20.020 system went rotten and to feel like could that be a part of what contributed yeah it was like

00:54:26.720 this light bulb going on in our minds going oh my gosh it's the food yeah and it made so much sense

00:54:35.800 and so yeah that just sent us down the rabbit hole and we're like we have to figure out how

00:54:40.080 to help amplify this message this is what americans need to hear do you think there is a risk

00:54:46.680 with Maha that people get too overwhelmed with all of the information that they hear.

00:54:53.520 And some people feel like, I can't, I can't keep up. One day I hear this is bad. The next day I

00:54:59.860 hear from someone else that it might be okay. I don't know who to listen to. I don't know what

00:55:04.020 to do. And some people might just go the other direction and say, you know what? It doesn't

00:55:08.500 matter. Something's always going to give me cancer. Whatever. Obviously that's not the mentality we

00:55:13.820 want. So like, how do we help someone like that who is feeling really overwhelmed, take a systematic

00:55:21.100 and kind of balanced methodological approach to getting her family healthier, kind of one step at

00:55:27.800 a time? I think the one step at a time is crucial because I think you're describing the majority of

00:55:34.280 people, especially like busy moms who are maybe all right, like working and raising a family and

00:55:39.280 trying to do it all. Um, but I always encourage people like, just start with seed oils. That's

00:55:45.760 just the one thing that you can start with. It's not overwhelming. Start to look at the labels and

00:55:51.660 just slowly get those out of there. You don't have to do like a one day purge the entire house.

00:55:56.940 Um, but once you start, I love Patrick has this great analogy of like, it's almost like playing

00:56:01.420 a video game. You're on like the first level. And as you conquer each level, you gain a new

00:56:06.520 superpower, but you don't get to go fight the dragon the first day. You know what I mean? You

00:56:10.840 take it one level at a time. And if you do that, it really helps. Yeah. Yeah. Doing it all at once.

00:56:18.160 That's when you really start to get overwhelmed and like, I'm throwing my hands up and I'm going

00:56:22.220 to go have a cheeseburger because like, screw it, you know? Yeah. Or it's like trying to run

00:56:26.580 a marathon in one day. You'll, you just won't do it because you'll give up and be like, well,

00:56:31.780 I'm just not a runner. I can't do it. Well, you might be a runner, but maybe right now you can

00:56:36.000 only run half a mile. But then after you run half a mile for the first time, you feel really

00:56:40.120 accomplished. And I know for me, when it comes to this, you cut out that one thing or you replace

00:56:45.320 that one thing that you thought, I could never replace that. I could never replace Cheez-Its

00:56:49.880 or whatever it is in my family. And then you do and you're like, oh, that was a little hard,

00:56:53.920 but I did it. And then you just kind of continue to add on to that. You're capable of a lot more

00:57:00.040 than you think you are. You just have to pace yourself a little bit. That's my opinion anyway.

00:57:06.000 And as you start to make these changes, you will notice that your body doesn't crave the same things that it used to.

00:57:12.140 It changes a lot.

00:57:14.500 And it's awesome because then all of a sudden you're not tempted for it.

00:57:16.820 You're like, I really would never buy a cheese that's ever again.

00:57:19.540 And I used to seriously love them.

00:57:21.060 It was like a guilty pleasure.

00:57:22.760 But my body is just like has zero desire for it.

00:57:25.160 It's not worth it.

00:57:25.880 No.

00:57:26.060 Yeah.

00:57:26.280 The late great podcaster, Dilbert creator, Scott Adams.

00:57:30.860 Yeah.

00:57:31.180 He had this thing about when you decide something, like when you really decide something, that's when the change occurs.

00:57:39.680 So building on the idea of levels and starting somewhere, make it seed oil, be the first place you start.

00:57:47.660 That's something you can tackle.

00:57:50.620 But when you really decide, and I think the best part about deciding is you're deciding to no longer just be a victim of the system.

00:57:58.960 you're deciding to change it for you and your family starting now and you will get effects

00:58:07.200 yeah okay where can people watch your documentary support you guys find more information all that

00:58:13.740 good stuff well uh breaking big food is available right now on apple tv and amazon prime video uh

00:58:21.360 and there's some other resources on breaking big food.com such as the dirty dozen ingredients to

00:58:26.660 avoid, as well as links to all of our social media sites. Okay, awesome. And if people are

00:58:31.980 in the Scottsdale area, they can come visit you, right? Yes, visit us at Firefly Organic Coffee

00:58:37.320 and Market. We promise to make it a fun time. And the coffee is delicious. And we're usually there

00:58:44.240 every day about 2pm for our own afternoon coffee. Okay, next time I'm in the area, I really am going

00:58:50.640 to stop by. Thank you so much. Thank you all for just what you do for the time and dedication you've

00:58:55.840 put into helping people get healthier and make their families healthier. And for being here

00:59:01.600 today, I just really appreciate it. Thank you so much for having us. It's been a pleasure.

00:59:05.320 Thank you, Allie. It's been great.

Relatable with Allie Beth Stuckey - July 08, 2026

Ep 1369 ｜ ‘Big Food’ Poisoned America — Here’s How We’re Taking It Back ｜ Patrick & Ashley Sullivan

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