Relatable with Allie Beth Stuckey - Ep 1386 ｜ Did Patrick Clancy Do It？ Fact-Checking Lindsay Clancy’s Defenders

00:00:00.000 Did Patrick Clancy do it? That is the question and the accusation that is circulating on TikTok.

00:00:07.820 And can women actually ever be blamed for doing something evil? Also, my debate with Monty

00:00:15.120 Mader going through some debate strategies and some logical fallacies to look out for to equip

00:00:20.180 you in conversations about things that are really important. We've got all of that and more on

00:00:24.320 today's episode of Relatable. It's brought to you by our friends at Olive App. Olive is a food

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00:00:40.460 hey y'all welcome to relatable happy wednesday hope everyone is having a wonderful week so far

00:00:55.400 If you have not listened to her, I watched Monday's episode about Catherine Crick, the

00:00:59.980 self-appointed apostle, her connection to a man named George Davey, the Tanzanian so-called

00:01:05.220 prophet and the allegations against him and what Catherine Crick may have known about

00:01:12.040 George Davey's misconduct and really scary sexual predation against some of her friends.

00:01:20.820 You got to go and check that out.

00:01:22.400 share that with people in your life who just may need to wake up to what this movement really seems

00:01:28.600 to be about. And remember, pray for everyone involved in that story for both repentance

00:01:34.160 and then healing and protection as well. Today, we are going to get into Lindsay Clancy and the

00:01:39.960 reaction on TikTok. These women who claim to be online sleuths and claim to have some kind

00:01:46.220 of intuition about who really killed Lindsay Clancy's children. And we're going to kind of

00:01:51.420 psychoanalyze this and look at some of the cultural influences that are creating this

00:01:56.600 narrative in our minds, especially in women, especially in feminist minds that a woman can

00:02:02.820 never really be guilty. She can never truly be held accountable for anything evil she does

00:02:08.400 because it is probably nuanced. She's probably misunderstood. Now we covered the Lindsay Clancy

00:02:14.400 trial a couple of weeks ago, and we looked at all of the different angles, all of the

00:02:19.180 antidepressants, so-called the SSRIs that she was on, their interactions, the arguments of

00:02:26.040 the prosecution versus the defense, how we balance understanding and compassion, sensitivity, and

00:02:32.420 also with justice and with the realization that these little children were the victims of a

00:02:39.800 brutal murder. So if you want more details about all of that, the details of the case and the trial,

00:02:45.880 go back and listen to or watch that episode with Lindsay Clancy. But today we'll get into

00:02:51.140 the TikTokification of our justice system and where it shows we are when it comes to

00:02:58.860 the feminist mind in America and why it really, really matters for the discerning Christian.

00:03:05.400 But first, I just want to briefly kind of go through some highlights from my Jubilee debate

00:03:11.200 that came out last Friday against a woman named Monty Mader. She is a very popular

00:03:17.680 ex-vangelical, um, influencer. I think she's got almost 3 million followers on, um, on Instagram

00:03:25.860 and we faced off in a format for Jubilee called face off. And I want to get into a little bit

00:03:33.980 about the format that might not have been obvious from the get-go. Some of the things about the

00:03:38.700 rules. And my strategies for how I approach debates like this, as you guys probably know,

00:03:43.780 this was my second Jubilee debate, very, very different than the surrounded debate that I did

00:03:48.440 last October. And we'll go through just a couple back and forths. And then we will also go through

00:03:54.660 one of the claims that she made. And we will go through the details that we didn't have time to

00:04:02.100 go through in the actual debate. And I also want to highlight a specific strategy and how you guys

00:04:09.240 can navigate it, um, in your everyday life and how, and how to spot it. So first let's just talk

00:04:15.540 about what this debate was. We already put up the thumbnail. If you haven't watched the full debate,

00:04:19.940 I really encourage you to, rather than just looking at the clips, it's hard to capture

00:04:24.160 what really happened in the back and forth in just 90 seconds or 60 seconds. So this was a

00:04:29.820 very interesting format. The rules are this. So each of us brought two claims. I had my two claims.

00:04:36.800 She had her two claims. Um, my two claims were about, um, abortion. Christians cannot,

00:04:45.160 or must oppose abortion. And also Christians cannot affirm same sex marriage. Her two claims

00:04:50.320 were that America are, is not, and will never be a Christian nation. And also that patriarchy,

00:04:56.800 not feminism is at odds with Christ ministry and teaching. So four total claims, and there

00:05:02.960 are 16 minutes per claim that we get to go back and forth. And that is split into her eight minutes

00:05:11.120 in my eight minutes. Now we can use our eight minutes. However we want to, when we are done

00:05:18.940 speaking, we had to press this little clock, um, that signified that the other person could talk.

00:05:26.100 But while the other person was talking, they could talk for their full eight minutes at

00:05:29.680 once.

00:05:29.960 If they wanted to, they could only talk for 30 seconds or 10 seconds, or they could talk

00:05:33.240 for three minutes.

00:05:34.160 However, they wanted to use their time.

00:05:35.760 They could, but you could not interject.

00:05:37.600 She couldn't interrupt me.

00:05:38.880 I was not allowed to interrupt her.

00:05:41.980 It was really more of a monologue off.

00:05:45.000 Like it was her monologue than my monologue.

00:05:48.380 It wasn't really a back and forth.

00:05:50.280 The reason why I don't find that conducive to coming to a clarifying point or coming

00:05:55.900 to a place of understanding and commonality at all, why I actually don't think this format is

00:06:01.640 helpful for the audience, even if it feels less stressful is because you cannot respond to the

00:06:07.780 other person's claim because they make too many claims in a matter of say five minutes that

00:06:12.740 they're talking. You've got to pick and choose what claims you are going to respond to. And never

00:06:18.800 do you have the ability to stop and say, hang on a second, hang on, hang on. You just said that,

00:06:24.180 but earlier you said that. Can you help me understand how those two things go together?

00:06:27.860 Or hang on a second. Can you please define that? That's what I prefer to do in debates. That's why

00:06:32.780 I loved Surrounded. It's probably a stressful experience, maybe for the viewer. Maybe it

00:06:38.240 stresses you out that they're running to the chair and we're going back and forth and all of that.

00:06:42.740 But I liked that. And there is a way to be able to interject and to clarify and to follow up

00:06:48.540 without being rude and interrupting. You can go back and watch my Surrounded debate and you can

00:06:53.900 see kind of how I balance those two things of allowing the person to really get out their

00:06:58.080 argument, but quickly following up with a clarification and defining our terms. As you

00:07:03.680 guys have heard me say, so often defining your terms is the most important part of any debate,

00:07:08.740 defining your own terms and making them define their terms so that you can get on the same page.

00:07:16.260 Let me play you an example of us attempting to do that, even though it's really difficult,

00:07:21.620 because again, when the person goes on for five or six minutes, you only have so many claims that

00:07:28.380 you can actually address, especially if someone's trying to give like a two minute history lesson

00:07:33.240 on something. The most important thing you can do is get down to brass tacks. The most important

00:07:38.440 thing you can do is get back to the claim. Because if we get off the reservation and start going down

00:07:43.780 this history back and forth, then we lose sight of what is actually being argued. So that's kind

00:07:48.980 of what happened here. We started talking about abortion. She starts talking about the long

00:07:54.080 historical precedent of conservatives trying to oppose abortion, which we'll get into in just a

00:07:58.720 minute. And this is my rerouting us back to the main point. Here is salt one. Well, first, let me

00:08:07.400 say this is her part of her claim. And then the second clip will be me clarifying what that

00:08:13.500 actually means. Salt one. I want to talk about definitions a little bit, because I know that

00:08:18.040 it's emotionally compelling to say killing babies. It's not a baby. That's not me being contrarian.

00:08:23.200 That's accuracy. Embryo up to the end of eight weeks. And then we have a fetus. And I think it's

00:08:27.740 very important so that we're actually getting to the facts of the matter. But what we are saying

00:08:32.060 is we are not saying you can go up and kill someone anytime you want. The distinction here is

00:08:35.860 do my organs, does my bloodstream, does my marrow have to keep them alive? Do I have to put myself

00:08:41.340 in harm's way or risk death in order for this life to be viable? I think you have an absolutely

00:08:46.280 solid argument after viability but we know that that is not one of the bulk of abortions happen

00:08:51.160 late second and third trimester is almost exclusively for fatal fetal abnormalities

00:08:55.800 stillbirths partial miscarriages and medical emergencies and medical professionals should be

00:09:00.600 allowed to make that call in conjunction with their patient and their patient's safety first of

00:09:04.920 all fetus is latin for small child and so we can get into the semantics of it it's all a human being

00:09:10.440 i mean just because we call a child a toddler or we call a child a baby doesn't mean that it's not

00:09:15.560 a child doesn't mean that it's not a human adolescent teen these are all different

00:09:19.400 designations that we use for different stages of life that doesn't change the value of someone

00:09:23.800 viability extremely arbitrary standard for whether or not a person should be murdered i mean

00:09:28.760 we're not just talking about okay is it okay for the dentist to pull a tooth we are talking about

00:09:33.640 is it okay for a doctor for an abortion provider to be able to inject the heart of a baby to cause

00:09:39.480 cardiac arrest and then induce delivery to kill that baby and then to throw that baby away like

00:09:45.160 toxic waste. That's what we're talking about. So as you can see, there are a million things that

00:09:49.880 I could have responded to even in that. I could have responded to the fact that she's now saying

00:09:53.580 I have a good argument after viability when earlier she said that life doesn't begin until

00:09:58.100 first breath. So life doesn't actually begin until they're outside of the womb and can breathe on

00:10:02.080 their own. And now she's saying, oh, maybe it's around 24, 24 weeks that you have an argument for

00:10:07.340 being pro-life. I could have addressed this idea that late-term abortion, second and third trimester

00:10:13.920 are only for all of these reasons, like the health of the mother, cancer diagnoses. That's

00:10:20.580 not a reason to abort a child in the second or third trimester. We have babies as young as 19

00:10:25.640 weeks who are able to be born and survive outside of the womb. If the baby's got to come out,

00:10:30.460 then you deliver the baby. You shouldn't have to kill the baby first. That's a two-day long

00:10:34.360 process if you're talking about late-term abortion that is obviously dangerous for the child, but

00:10:38.700 also dangerous for the mother. And then I did eventually respond to the biblical support for

00:10:44.980 life starting at conception and also the logical and scientific support of that. But you see how

00:10:49.720 I brought it down to brass tacks. Hang on a second. Let's define our terms. That was very

00:10:54.980 difficult in this kind of format. But if you go watch the entire debate, you will see that that

00:11:00.080 was my strategy to get us back to the claim, to get us back to the main points. And that's what

00:11:05.100 I encourage you to do as well, because it's really easy when someone is spouting a lot of

00:11:10.960 information that might seem factual because they're very confident to kind of follow them

00:11:16.200 down that trail, but that's called a red herring. That is making an argument that is actually

00:11:20.800 totally unrelated and irrelevant to the logic and the substance of the main claim. It's your job to

00:11:26.640 get back to the main claim and to simplify the abortion conversation as much as you possibly can.

00:11:32.280 So that's all I'll play for in that segment.

00:11:34.220 And then we also talked about this idea that America is not a Christian nation and that

00:11:39.200 Christian nationalism are basically Christians trying to infuse our worldview into law and

00:11:45.860 into public policy and how that shouldn't be allowed.

00:11:49.220 And I have some questions about that.

00:11:52.440 We'll get into that in a second.

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00:12:52.100 under the umbrella of the claim that we are not and never will be a christian nation we talk about

00:13:03.480 some of that in the founding documents but something that i found more interesting was this

00:13:08.460 idea that christians should only allow our religion to dictate our behavior and that we

00:13:15.580 shouldn't try to influence the law with our beliefs dot three christian conservatives

00:13:19.920 themselves are making these appeals to the Bible as justification for their actions and

00:13:25.460 justifications for the laws they want to pass without engaging in science or data as an

00:13:30.540 explanation for those laws versus when you look at progressive candidates, for instance,

00:13:34.940 there is typically here's the data, here's what we know, here's why we're proposing this,

00:13:39.180 and this is how it works. But we know that's not true. We know what the science says about

00:13:43.300 something like gender. There really is XX and XY, and it's very obvious that a man should not be

00:13:48.260 playing in women's sports it's an appeal to ideology it's an appeal to ideology to say you

00:13:53.320 know a person can be small enough can be young enough that they don't actually have value and

00:13:57.520 rights and that a person's organ actually trumps the right to life of that little baby but you do

00:14:03.220 what a lot of progressives do is claim that their views are coming from a place of data their views

00:14:08.180 are always coming from a place of science their views are coming from this neutral position

00:14:12.020 and conservative christians ours are just coming from subjective religion which yes i'm not going

00:14:17.800 to lie and say, oh no, God has nothing to do with my perspective on the value of human life. Of

00:14:23.600 course, I believe all people are made in the image of God. Not everyone believes that. That is the

00:14:28.340 thrust of what I believe and is underneath everything I believe. But yes, I can appeal to

00:14:32.720 logic. I can appeal to science to make the argument for why abortion is unethical wrong and therefore

00:14:37.700 should be illegal. Or I can definitely appeal to biology, as many non-Christians do, when it comes

00:14:43.900 to the reality of the gender binary, which is the same thing as the reality of the sex binary.

00:14:49.400 And so I just don't think it's quite fair to say progressive candidates are the ones appealing to

00:14:54.720 facts and logic. There's nothing factual or logical by saying that a man can become a woman.

00:14:59.760 You can have that belief, but when you start to legislate that, well, then you're forcing

00:15:04.560 your religious belief on me. You've become your own kind of theocrat.

00:15:08.680 So that's obviously just a ridiculous claim, progressives claim to be on the side of

00:15:13.840 science and logic and facts. And that is just not true. And it's increasingly obvious that that's

00:15:19.200 not true. The idea that a fetus becomes a person suddenly in the birth canal, or the idea that a

00:15:25.240 man can become a woman via declaration, that is a fanciful ideological belief that they are

00:15:31.260 enforcing through the law on us and on children. It's okay when they do it, but not when we do it.

00:15:37.600 And I point out this hypocrisy, ESOP 5.

00:15:41.140 Religion is a fence that I place on my lawn.

00:15:44.160 It is not a fence I can place on your lawn.

00:15:46.220 So when I start to make legislation or vote for bills that enforce my belief,

00:15:50.220 my belief that is strictly my religious belief,

00:15:52.880 on other people where now you have to follow my belief system

00:15:56.680 instead of I can't participate in that, I can't do that,

00:16:00.500 I don't believe in that for my religion,

00:16:02.560 then you start to actually infringe on the religious liberties of others.

00:16:05.620 You said your religious beliefs are a fence on your own lawn, not a fence that you can put on

00:16:09.880 other people's lawn. But I can think of Christians who have had to abide by beliefs that are not

00:16:15.740 theirs. I think, for example, about Jack Phillips. He's the cake baker out of Colorado, Masterpiece

00:16:20.620 Cake Shop. He said, look, I just can't make a cake that celebrates a gay wedding. I'll make you a

00:16:25.520 cake, but it goes against my religious beliefs. Well, the state of Colorado came after him,

00:16:30.220 and it was only after over a decade of litigation, and his case made it all the way to the Supreme

00:16:34.900 court that finally the supreme court said okay you've got a first amendment right to be able to

00:16:39.300 you know express your artistic creativity the way that you want to in a way that aligns with

00:16:43.920 your values i could go on and on jessica bates she is a mom out of oregon she tried to adopt

00:16:49.100 some kids out of foster care and they said look if you don't abide by what we believe

00:16:54.360 about lgbtq ideology then you can't adopt so everywhere i actually see progressives using

00:17:00.960 what I would call their quasi-religious beliefs and say, no, these are neutral. We're enforcing

00:17:05.920 them via legislation. And if you don't abide by them, then you're a bigot, then you'll get in

00:17:10.580 trouble. So that's what I don't really understand. Why is it Christian nationalism or a theocracy

00:17:15.620 for me to say, here's my belief about abortion. I do think it should be reflected in law versus

00:17:20.980 when say a progressive does the same thing from their perspective. Yeah, that's the whole thing

00:17:27.660 is that really it comes down to conservative Christians and conservative Christians alone

00:17:32.340 are the ones who are not allowed to bring our worldview into the voting booth. Look, no law

00:17:38.100 is moral. Every law is a should. We hear this phrase that is so nonsensical over and over again

00:17:44.580 that you can't legislate morality. I'm not saying that Monty said that, but I hear that a lot. You

00:17:49.500 can't legislate morality. All legislation is moral. The speed limit is moral. It's saying that

00:17:55.520 you can only go this fast because of this underlying moral belief that human life matters

00:18:01.540 and putting human life at risk by driving as fast as you want and driving recklessly

00:18:06.540 is not okay. So every single law has a presupposition that is based in a worldview

00:18:13.200 about who is in charge, what is right, and what is wrong. There's no such thing as a neutral policy.

00:18:19.300 It's just that progressives want you to believe that they are coming from a place of neutrality

00:18:24.360 when in fact they're not. They've got their own religious beliefs, their fanciful, fantastical

00:18:30.760 beliefs, and we have our beliefs. It's just that ours are backed up by an authority that's higher

00:18:37.220 than ourselves, that transcends the power of the government. It also happens to be the same

00:18:42.660 authority that most of the founders believed in too. So that's the truth. Really, progressives

00:18:47.740 have the power. They have the power. They want the power. It's really not about who wants power

00:18:52.660 and who doesn't. I hear that a lot. Oh, it's so scary that Christians want power. Well, one worldview

00:18:57.360 is always going to dominate. One worldview is going to dictate what kind of laws we have.

00:19:01.760 The question is which worldview is better? Which one has better fruit? Which one comes up with

00:19:06.760 better, more protective laws? I think we can look at progressive secularism and the fruit that it

00:19:12.100 has produced throughout history. We can look at 20th century communism, socialism, the totalitarianism

00:19:17.640 that came out of atheism and progressivism in the name of elevating the poor and including

00:19:24.200 the marginalized and making life better for the least of these, progressivism ended up

00:19:30.060 bearing the fruit of death and destruction and poverty.

00:19:33.880 And I would say Christianity has been the greatest force for good and for liberty throughout

00:19:40.020 all of history, forging Western civilization to create the greatest culture and nation

00:19:45.500 that has ever existed for every single kind of person. And so just don't be intimidated by that,

00:19:52.200 by this idea that if you're a Christian conservative, you are the only one who has

00:19:55.660 to check your worldview at the door. It's just not true. Everyone should be able to bring the

00:19:59.680 fullness of their worldview to the table and let's duke it out and let's debate and may the best

00:20:04.640 worldview win. All right, let's get into a little bit of a logic class for a second. I want to talk

00:20:12.860 about a particular strategy that you may see from influencers that you might see online or that you

00:20:18.640 might experience from people in your life. And this is not something that is exclusive to

00:20:23.820 progressives. I see this kind of tactic being used by a lot of people and it's very convincing.

00:20:30.440 And it is a logical fallacy called a gish gallop. And a gish gallop is a debate tactic where

00:20:37.460 someone gives a rapid fire stream of arguments or points and some of them might be correct

00:20:44.060 and some of them are not this is an attempt to kind of overwhelm their opponent or even

00:20:49.280 overwhelm their audience with a quantity of claims that can't actually be debunked because

00:20:56.020 there are so many that if you try to go through each claim one by one you would end up going down

00:21:02.240 the trail of a red herring of something that actually doesn't have to do with the main point

00:21:07.280 at all, or you end up having this tangential conversation and then you go off the reservation

00:21:13.080 and you lose the spirit of what the debate is supposed to be about. And it would just take a

00:21:17.920 lot of time. So gish galloping is when someone talks really fast and tries to overwhelm you

00:21:23.520 with all of these different points. And so your senses are completely overtaken and you're not

00:21:28.220 actually able to break them down one by one. And what I would say again, is that your response to

00:21:34.340 a gish gallop when someone is going on and on and on. Let me tell you this historical argument.

00:21:38.620 Let me give you all of these so-called facts. Let me throw all of these things in your face

00:21:42.940 really fast and really confidently so that it seems like I really know what I'm talking about

00:21:46.660 and you couldn't possibly go against me. Your job is not to meet them by responding to every

00:21:51.380 argument or talking just as quickly. Your response has to be slow down. Slow down. You can even say

00:21:56.900 that out loud. Slow down. Hang on a second. I want to go back to the claim. I want to go back to what

00:22:02.160 two originally said, and let me get down to what this actually means. Let me give you an example

00:22:08.500 of what a gish gallop can look like. Here's thought six. Throughout the early church, that it was not

00:22:14.280 considered murder. St. Augustine decided that until the quickening, until viability, it was not

00:22:19.160 considered a crime or murder in the church. That was changed by Pope Pius IX in 1869. And the

00:22:25.760 evangelical community within the 20th century didn't really care that much about it. It wasn't

00:22:29.600 a motivator for their voting block and it really wasn't something they rallied around.

00:22:33.060 In fact, in 1968, Christianity Today hosted 25 theologians who really debated abortion.

00:22:38.100 Is it right?

00:22:39.100 Is it wrong?

00:22:40.100 When can it happen?

00:22:41.100 When shouldn't it happen?

00:22:42.100 And they all agreed collectively that in all or some cases, it should be permissible.

00:22:46.280 You're part of the Southern Baptist Church Convention, which acknowledged the right of

00:22:50.020 abortion, supported it in three separate church edicts, as did the Dallas Theological Seminary,

00:22:54.840 saying that they believed that a woman's right to her body and autonomy superseded all else.

00:22:59.560 And that abortion should be permissible in incest cases, as well as for the mental, physical, and spiritual health of the mother.

00:23:06.540 The overwhelming evangelical community supported the passage of Roe.

00:23:10.640 She then goes on to make the argument, and we can't play, you know, entire clips on this show, it would go on and on.

00:23:17.040 She then goes on to make the argument that the only, she talks about Jerry Falwell, she talks about Liberty University, she talks about Bob Jones.

00:23:23.900 She talks about how evangelicals in the 70s and 80s were really trying to find the issue

00:23:30.980 that was going to rally the base, and segregation was one of those issues, and then they figured

00:23:37.200 out that they could use abortion as a way to kind of mobilize evangelicals, but it wasn't

00:23:42.440 sincere, that Christians didn't really care about it.

00:23:45.360 And she's trying to make the point that this makes the Christian conservative opposition

00:23:50.760 to abortion superficial, that we're just being manipulated by the patriarchal powers that be

00:23:56.260 to oppose the murder of children. Um, now we'll get into the actual fact based debunking of these

00:24:04.420 claims, but I do just want to point something out that this dish galloping that we just saw

00:24:10.820 overwhelming seeming facts that she had this script plant. And this was something that I knew

00:24:19.840 going in that this particular format is going to be really good for someone who is not a strong

00:24:25.180 debater, but has a really good command of their monologue and is really good at memorizing a

00:24:32.320 narrative and then repeating that. And when that was really demonstrated to me was something that

00:24:39.680 actually wasn't kept in the final version. It was something that was mostly edited out and the real

00:24:45.460 version, there is a different ordering of the claims, which is fine. That doesn't take away

00:24:50.420 from the integrity of the debate that Jubilee decided to rearrange that. But actually in the

00:24:56.220 real debate, we first talk about same-sex marriage and I make my claim that Christians should be

00:25:01.120 against it. Well, her response to my claim about same-sex marriage, she goes on in real life. She

00:25:07.560 went on for about five minutes about abortion. And she actually says exactly what she said

00:25:13.720 in that clip that we just played that had nothing to do with my claim whatsoever. Here's thought

00:25:19.260 seven. And in the 20th century, evangelicals in America did not really have a particular opinion

00:25:24.520 on abortion overall as a voting bloc. It really didn't matter. In fact, in the early 70s, the SBC

00:25:30.000 released three churchwide edicts supporting the passage of Roe, that a woman's bodily autonomy

00:25:34.900 was supreme, that for her mental, physical, and spiritual health, that abortion should be on the

00:25:40.260 table in all or some cases. So really, for the bulk of church history, Christians have in some

00:25:44.820 form or another affirmed abortion. Are you saying that all of those people were not Christians?

00:25:51.040 This segment and this claim is about same-sex marriage.

00:25:54.600 So you might have thought that we just played the clip from earlier again. We didn't. This was a

00:26:00.140 separate part of the debate. This was in response to my claim that Christians should be against

00:26:04.960 same-sex marriage. And as I said, in real life, she went on for five minutes with the exact same

00:26:11.360 verbatim monologue that she actually meant for the abortion claim, which again, in real life,

00:26:17.760 the abortion claim wasn't actually made until later in our debate. So she has a script in her

00:26:23.760 mind. She is very, very good at reciting that script, which is a skill. I'm not necessarily

00:26:29.140 starily dunking on that, but I just want you to understand how gish galloping works and how this

00:26:36.340 strategy works. You've got a script in your mind. She memorized the script. She stuck to the script

00:26:41.320 so much so that she wasn't actually listening to my claims. I made a claim about same-sex marriage

00:26:47.340 and they kept in about 30 seconds of her monologue on abortion that she had repeated again later

00:26:54.800 that I just played you. Okay. So actually she had her answers canned, ready to go. This was not a

00:27:02.200 debate where she was willing to go back and forth with anything I was saying. If you watch the

00:27:06.680 debate, you can see that I'm trying to address some of her points. I'm trying to say, you said

00:27:11.200 this, here's my response to that. And instead of her engaging with those things, she instead did

00:27:18.960 her monologues, which were almost verbatim, the monologues that she also puts on her social media.

00:27:24.080 So I understand why her supporters, if you follow her social media and you're like, okay,

00:27:28.680 this is exactly what I expected from Monty to repeat the same things that she says on

00:27:32.340 social media here, no matter what the question was, no matter what the claim is, um, then

00:27:37.120 I can see how you enjoyed that.

00:27:39.280 Okay.

00:27:39.860 That's not a debate.

00:27:41.720 That's not an engaging conversation.

00:27:43.740 That's not a back and forth.

00:27:45.180 Again, that is a monologue off where one person is trying to engage and kind of get to a place

00:27:50.720 of commonality, at least when it comes to definitions.

00:27:52.960 And the other person is reciting a monologue that may or may not have anything to do with

00:27:57.900 the topic at hand at all.

00:27:59.380 So just understand that you might be talking to someone in a debate that has a script in

00:28:04.840 front of them that is going to gish gallop, that is going to try to overwhelm you with

00:28:08.860 all different kinds of points, some of which are true, some of which are not true, some

00:28:13.200 of which are compelling, some of which are not compelling, but just seem so overwhelming.

00:28:17.420 And when someone has memorized a script, it's very hard to poke through that and to get

00:28:22.440 to the point that you want to get to or try to get through to them, you've just got to go back

00:28:28.160 to the main thing. You just got to go back to the main claim. And my purpose for doing that,

00:28:35.000 my purpose for engaging in these debates at all is not to change Monty's mind. That would be

00:28:40.360 amazing if one day the Holy Spirit changed her mind and changed her heart. It's not to change

00:28:44.820 the mind of her supporters. You can read some of the comments and just how vile they are. I've

00:28:50.460 gotten the most vile messages since this debate was published, not only wishing that I would die,

00:28:56.160 but wishing the baby that I am carrying would die, that I would miscarry. And so those people,

00:29:02.420 I'm not saying all of her followers, but certainly the messages in the comments represent a callousness.

00:29:07.340 My debate is not for them, although of course we pray for them as well. My debate is for you.

00:29:13.380 Me going into these situations to go back and forth with these ideas is to hopefully,

00:29:18.460 by the grace of God exemplify how you can respond with kindness, with respect, um, with peace,

00:29:26.600 without compromising at all in what is good, right, and true. And that is what I also wanted

00:29:31.560 to demonstrate in the Jubilee debate. Can you engage with people with compassion, with humanity,

00:29:36.380 with care, without compromising at all? I think a lot of people, especially Christians,

00:29:41.560 think that in order to love someone, you have to nuance your positions. You have to compromise a

00:29:46.760 little bit. You have to give in just a few, uh, in a few areas in order to relate to someone.

00:29:52.680 You don't have to do that. I think Jesus gives us a really good example of how not to do that,

00:29:57.200 of how to love people, meet them where they are without compromising even a centimeter

00:30:01.540 on what is true. So that's why I do this. It's really for the Christian women in my audience.

00:30:06.040 Yes. If there are people on the fence, one of my favorite comments that I got in the YouTube video

00:30:10.200 of, um, my surrounded debate, the top comment is someone saying, look, I'm not religious.

00:30:15.800 like I don't believe in anything that Ali said, but I don't know any good response to her abortion

00:30:23.400 arguments. And I don't take credit for that. That's all by the grace of God. But that, I mean,

00:30:29.040 that's a win. That's for sure a huge win when something like that happens. And you just have

00:30:33.000 to trust that God is going to use your obedience to his word to accomplish what he wants to

00:30:36.860 accomplish. But my main purpose in going into these things is to show you here's how you engage.

00:30:43.200 and here's something you could say. I will never do it perfectly. There's always going to be things

00:30:47.600 I wish I did and said differently, but, um, I hope to demonstrate how to kind of faithfully

00:30:54.280 engage with secular and progressive arguments from a biblical perspective. All right. I promised

00:30:58.360 that we would debunk some of the claims that she made about the history of abortion. If you're

00:31:03.480 brought this whole monologue that she gave and you're meant to respond, I think that you should

00:31:09.080 just go to the main point of killing babies is wrong, but it's also good information to learn

00:31:13.600 and it's good things to know the truth about the early church on abortion and the evangelical

00:31:17.480 movement and the 20th century and why we actually fight for the lives of the unborn. So we'll get

00:31:21.600 to that in just a second. Let me pause and tell you about our next sponsor. It's Adele Natural

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00:32:24.720 I do just want to say before we get back into it, if you are looking for apologetics for theology

00:32:30.260 and for clarity and for courage.

00:32:32.500 If you are looking to be around more like-minded women

00:32:35.840 and you are looking to get Bible-based teaching

00:32:38.380 for one day, come to Share the Arrows,

00:32:40.760 October 10th, Dallas, Texas.

00:32:42.740 It's going to be an incredible, Holy Spirit-filled day.

00:32:45.840 We pray by the grace of God.

00:32:47.480 It has been thus far.

00:32:48.540 We're so thankful.

00:32:49.800 Share the Arrows this year is brought to you

00:32:51.760 by our friends at We Heart Nutrition.

00:32:54.380 We've got Shane and Shane leading worship.

00:32:56.020 We've got Rosario Butterfield, Kosti,

00:32:57.580 Hannah, Lisa Childers, Natasha Crane, Audrey Brogy,

00:32:59.880 Grace Anna Castle, Barry, yours truly. I'm talking to each of the speakers in the next

00:33:03.720 couple of weeks, just honing exactly what the talks are going to be. Y'all, it's going to be

00:33:07.840 so good. I cannot wait. Go to sharethearrows.com. You can use any of the speakers' first names,

00:33:13.220 plus the number 15 when you go to Ticketmaster, and you can get 15% off your ticket. Come one,

00:33:19.160 come all. I am so excited about it. Sharethearrows.com. All right, let's get into this

00:33:24.120 quick fact check, this idea that Christians didn't care about abortion until like the 1970s.

00:33:31.420 Now, first of all, what happened in the 1970s, y'all? What happened in the 1970s? Roe v. Wade

00:33:37.540 happened. And so, yeah, before that, it wasn't as much of a political debate as it was after the

00:33:43.580 passage of Roe v. Wade. That's obviously going to be true. Guys, I have even heard conservative

00:33:48.580 pastors repeat that talking point as a way to try to discredit the Republican party and those of us

00:33:55.000 who vote Republican, I can't speak for Republican politicians, um, and our opposition to abortion

00:34:00.280 to try to invalidate it or to act like it's superficial. I'm like, what happened in the

00:34:04.200 1970s? Roe v. Wade was passed in the 1970s that basically allowed abortion through all nine

00:34:10.380 months for various reasons. Okay. So of course that mobilized people, it radicalized the abortion

00:34:16.380 movement, the abortion movement, the pro-abortion movement, by the way, became extremely mobilized

00:34:21.920 before, during, and after the 1970s too. No one talks about that. Okay, let's back up though.

00:34:27.560 Let's go to the early church. The claim that the early church did not regard abortion

00:34:31.520 as killing is wrong. If we look at the Didache, it is one of the earliest Christian documents we

00:34:37.540 have that summarizes what the early church believed in the first century. Most scholars

00:34:41.560 date the Didache to the late first century or the early, uh, early second century. And it's really

00:34:46.960 short summary of the worst sins. It prohibits abortion. You shall not practice magic. You

00:34:51.660 shall not practice witchcraft. You shall not murder a child by abortion, nor kill that which

00:34:56.460 is begotten. And you know, it's interesting that the Didache actually connects the practice of magic

00:35:02.780 with child sacrifice, because that's exactly what we see throughout the whole Old Testament.

00:35:07.480 when the Lord is warning his people, warning ancient Israel, hey, don't be a part of those

00:35:12.280 cultural practices over there, which include necromancy, which include mediums, which include

00:35:17.000 practicing magic and sorcery, which is forbidden by the way for God's holy people and is punishable

00:35:23.980 by death. He also says within those dictates, he says, do not offer your child as a sacrifice to

00:35:29.400 their gods, which apparently was something that was happening. It seems that idolatry,

00:35:33.460 sexual immorality and child sacrifice are always intertwined. We even see that in the New Testament

00:35:39.460 when Paul is talking about worshiping the creature rather than the creator who is blessed forever,

00:35:44.320 amen, in Romans 1. This is in a passage about homosexuality, about exchanging natural desires

00:35:51.040 for unnatural ones and the sins which are an abomination to God, sins against your own body,

00:35:56.460 which are sins of sexual immorality. So from the very beginning, the church understood this because

00:36:01.000 God has understood this and his word has relayed this. So it shows from the very start that

00:36:05.860 Christians have interpreted the Bible as being against abortion. There's a church father and

00:36:09.940 theologian, Tertullian, around AD 200. He also wrote that Christians may not destroy a baby in

00:36:15.580 the womb. In Apology, which is a text defending Christian faith, he writes, in our case, murder

00:36:20.520 being once for all forbidden, we may not destroy even the fetus in the womb. While as yet the

00:36:25.840 human being derives blood from other parts of the body for its sustenance, to hinder a birth is

00:36:30.020 merely a speedier man killing, nor does it matter whether you take away a life that is born or

00:36:35.180 destroy one that is coming to the birth. Now, Monty claimed also in her gish gallop that St.

00:36:40.960 Augustine, um, some people say Augustine, some people say Augustine, uh, held that until the

00:36:47.140 quickening until viability, it was not considered a crime or murder in the church. Well, that was

00:36:51.860 changed, uh, by Pope Pius, or she says that was changed by Pope Pius IX in 1869. Okay. Again,

00:37:00.620 that's interesting because she's simultaneously making the claim that Christians didn't say

00:37:04.940 anything or care very much about abortion until the 1970s. And then she's also saying, well,

00:37:09.420 all the way back in 1869, things were changed. So again, that is the thing about a gish gallop

00:37:14.840 is like, oh gosh, that seems so overwhelming. You know, so much history. But then when you

00:37:18.680 start thinking, hang on, what are you talking about? Are you talking about first breath,

00:37:22.380 which you said earlier? Are you talking about viability or you talk about quickening,

00:37:25.140 which is not the same thing as viability, by the way, quickening is when you can feel the baby

00:37:29.300 move. I felt this baby move around 14 weeks. That's not viability. A baby's not viable until

00:37:34.760 really the right now it's probably 24 weeks. That's what they say, but babies survive earlier

00:37:40.260 than that too. And so you see how we're getting into all of these arbitrary changing, uh, changing

00:37:45.800 standards for when it's okay to kill a person, when it's okay to kill a human being. But when

00:37:51.680 someone talks really fast and confidently, you don't break them down sentence by sentence. And

00:37:55.440 of course I didn't have time to do that with my eight minutes either. So it's true that when

00:37:59.580 commenting on Exodus 21, 22, which addresses the penalty for someone who strikes a pregnant woman

00:38:04.620 and causes a miscarriage, um, Augustine suggests that the passage may refer to an unformed embryo

00:38:11.060 for reference. Here's Exodus 21, 22, when men strive together and hit a pregnant woman. So

00:38:15.740 that her child or her children come out, but there is no harm. Uh, the one who hit her shall

00:38:21.040 surely be fined as the woman's husband shall impose on him and he shall pay as the damages

00:38:26.100 determined. Here's Augustine's commentary and questions on the Heptatook. If therefore there

00:38:34.040 is an unformed embryo animated in an unformed way, since the great question of the soul is not

00:38:39.920 to be rushed into rashly with thoughtfulness, thoughtless opinion. Then on this account,

00:38:44.500 the law does not pertain to homicide because it is not yet possible to say that a living soul

00:38:50.200 in this body, since it is bereft of sense, if the soul be in flesh that is not yet formed and hence

00:38:57.800 not yet endowed with sense. So although Augustine suggests that the embryo is unformed, this does

00:39:04.020 not mean that he approved of abortion. This passage still treats causing a miscarriage as

00:39:08.960 a punishable crime. So Augustine's question is about the severity of the defense or of the offense

00:39:13.280 rather, and whether it should be classified as homicide. And his question is really,

00:39:18.800 when are we in salt? And Augustine doesn't really seem to know. And it could be because he didn't

00:39:24.520 really understand the science at the time, that actually a unique human life with all of his or

00:39:30.220 her DNA is there and present at the moment of conception. He was probably influenced by the

00:39:36.720 world that he inhabited at the time. In the ancient Greco-Roman tradition, there were many

00:39:41.020 competing theories about when babies actually became and sold and therefore became people.

00:39:45.420 So Augustine drew from Aristotle's theory, which was that babies were unsold 40 days after

00:39:50.180 conception for males and 90 days for females. Aristotle wrote this theory sometime between

00:39:55.180 335 and 322 BC. It was popular until the 19th century. Also, a lot of the early fathers were

00:40:01.480 just influenced by the pagan culture when it came to the idea of children before and after birth.

00:40:09.640 I'm not saying everything that they believed and taught was colored by those pagan beliefs,

00:40:15.240 but remember at the time in the ancient Greco-Roman world, it was believed that children

00:40:19.880 were not full people at all, that they were basically on the level of animals and barbarians.

00:40:25.840 They didn't have the fullness of the logos, which they didn't have the fullness of reason,

00:40:31.360 of rationale, of thinking. That's what that meant. And so their degradation, their objectification,

00:40:37.320 and their abuse was routinely justified because of the belief that they lacked full personhood.

00:40:44.540 The only people who had full personhood, and I bring this up in the debate,

00:40:48.760 in this time was the adult free male, and they were the only ones given rights.

00:40:53.620 And so you see how the pagan argument really hasn't changed.

00:40:56.280 From all the way back then, when Aristotle was trying to separate humanity from personhood,

00:41:01.180 the Greek scholars, the Roman scholars at the time, trying to separate humanity from personhood

00:41:05.220 in order to justify mistreatment of certain kinds of people. Well, the pro-abortion argument is the

00:41:10.700 same today. You're trying to separate humanity from personhood to justify killing. It's no

00:41:15.700 different. Pagan's going to pagan. In his work on marriage and concupiscence, Augustine says that

00:41:21.240 all abortion is a sin. And he even says of married couples that they're not even really married if

00:41:26.660 they resort to these practices. So he says this sometimes indeed this lustful cruelty, or if you

00:41:32.680 please, cruel lust resorts to such extravagant methods as to use poisonous drugs to secure

00:41:37.960 barrenness or else it's unsuccessful in this to destroy the conceived seed by some means previous

00:41:44.480 to birth, preferring that his offspring should rather perish than receive vitality, or if it

00:41:49.720 was advancing to life within the womb should be slain before it was born. So abortion. Well,

00:41:55.040 if both parties alike are so flagitious, they are not husband and wife. And if such were their

00:42:00.220 character from the beginning. They have not come together by wedlock, but by debauchery.

00:42:04.240 That is very intense. As for Pius IX's 1869 action that Monty cites, it just changed the

00:42:12.240 church's penalty for an early stage abortion to be even more severe. Abortion was already

00:42:16.880 considered a grave sin, but Pius made abortion at any stage an automatic excommunication. Good

00:42:23.300 on pious the 10th or pious the ninth rather now let's fast forward to evangelicals in the 1960s

00:42:30.280 and 70s because she says that this was all just a ploy to try to get republicans more power through

00:42:36.060 the evangelicals and that it was really segregation that was a boon for this community at the time so

00:42:44.260 she says that they didn't care about the issue of abortion until the 70s again roe v wade passed

00:42:51.440 the Supreme Court, or it was decided by the Supreme Court in 1973. So yeah, that would kind

00:42:57.000 of line up. Immediately after the Roe decision, though, Christianity Today published a response

00:43:02.320 to crying the decision, stating in its Roe decision, the Supreme Court has clearly decided

00:43:07.120 for paganism. That was back when Christianity Today, pre-Russell Moore times, pre-Trump was

00:43:14.140 actually producing Christian content. And it was exactly right. It was making a decision in favor

00:43:21.120 of paganism and child sacrifice also in responding to this new issue of nationwide abortion it was a

00:43:27.140 new issue in the 1970s the southern baptist convention you heard her cite the sbc initially

00:43:32.760 adopted resolutions in the 1970s the 1971 sbc resolution supported legislation allowing abortion

00:43:40.080 in cases of rape incest severe fetal deformity and threats to the mother's emotional mental or

00:43:45.480 physical health but the same resolution also explicitly said the state had a responsibility

00:43:50.080 to affirm the sanctity of human life, including fetal life, and to protect those who cannot

00:43:54.520 protect themselves.

00:43:55.520 Now, let me just say something about the SBC in 1971 and its resolution on abortion.

00:44:00.400 It was wrong.

00:44:01.740 That is nonsensical.

00:44:02.920 That's a nonsensical position to say that you allow abortion because of the circumstances

00:44:07.900 surrounding a child's conception, because of a diagnosis that the child has, or because

00:44:13.780 the mother has some emotional or mental health problem that makes her not want to have a

00:44:17.540 child and then say that you want to protect the sanctity of life. What's also not as included is

00:44:21.980 that the SBC in the seventies and the early eighties was sprinting to the left. It wasn't

00:44:27.360 until the 1980s that the SBC had a big conservative reformation and went back to what is good, right

00:44:34.200 and true when it comes to theology, which also affected the politics of the SBC. So this was in

00:44:40.320 the liberalization of the SBC time saying, yeah, we are okay with abortion in these cases. Um,

00:44:46.680 but not okay in these other cases. And so the change in the SBC is a part of a much bigger

00:44:53.460 story of the Southern Baptist convention and also has nothing to do with actually what is true.

00:44:59.400 There were a lot of people throughout history who were wrong. A lot of people who claim to

00:45:04.040 be Christians who were wrong about all sorts of things. That doesn't mean that I have to agree

00:45:09.240 with them or that what we know to be true about abortion today is somehow negated by them being

00:45:13.880 wrong. That's stupid. Progressive is also used to believe certain things that they no longer

00:45:19.560 believe. That doesn't negate a progressive's belief today in the fact that a man, or like in

00:45:25.300 the idea that a man can become a woman when, you know, 15 years ago, no progressive said that they

00:45:30.560 would have said the opposite. They would have thought that was crazy. So what someone believes

00:45:35.100 today is not negated by what someone believed 20 years ago or 50 years ago. By 1976, only five years

00:45:41.000 later, the SBC was calling abortion the termination of an innocent life. In 1977, it explicitly

00:45:46.380 opposed abortion on demand. And by 1980, it supported prohibiting abortion except to save

00:45:51.320 the mother's life. So this is all happening as the SBC has a change in leadership. It is

00:45:57.060 moving more theologically conservative. The shift also occurred during a revolution in our ability

00:46:02.960 to observe life inside the womb. Obstetric ultrasound really only became widely available

00:46:08.180 during the 1970s with real-time ultrasound becoming increasingly widespread around the

00:46:13.120 end of the decade and into the 1980s. I think if you talk to a lot of our moms, like my mom,

00:46:18.940 my mother-in-law, they were having my sisters-in-law, my mom was having my brothers in the early

00:46:23.800 80s, having routine ultrasounds was not normal. Even in the suburban areas or in the cities in

00:46:31.600 the 1980s, sometimes you would get an ultrasound if something was wrong, but that was not routine.

00:46:36.720 But it became more and more routine, 80s and 90s. We saw a window into who these little human

00:46:42.820 beings were, and it became harder and harder to understand and to justify abortion, the killing

00:46:49.780 of these little babies that are so clearly human. There were also books that were published at the

00:46:55.900 time, movies that were published at the time, like The Silent Scream, that actually analyzed what is

00:47:01.460 happening inside the womb when these babies are being killed. And we saw that these babies are

00:47:07.160 actually seen to scream and cry as the abortion needle is being plunged into their heart to cause

00:47:12.100 a cardiac arrest. And so we're acting like this is all just superficial, nefarious, somehow racist

00:47:20.100 political pandering when there were very real theological, cultural, and scientific reasons

00:47:25.380 that people were becoming more animated against abortion.

00:47:29.640 Also, abortion, as I said earlier,

00:47:33.040 it was becoming a nationwide issue on the left.

00:47:36.460 When you look at the history of Planned Parenthood,

00:47:38.940 when you look at the history of NARAL,

00:47:41.240 you will see that before, during, and after the decision of Roe

00:47:45.540 that they became more public.

00:47:47.900 They became more propagandistic.

00:47:50.320 They began their campaign to go into schools,

00:47:53.200 to be called Planned Parenthood.

00:47:55.380 NARAL became very powerful in the 70s and 80s. This began the debates in the presidential

00:48:04.760 campaigns about abortion. This was not simply an evangelical power play. There were a lot of

00:48:13.160 dynamics that were creating this mobilization of Christians against abortion. I'm so thankful for

00:48:18.760 it because after almost half a century, we got Roe v. Wade overturned because of this animation

00:48:25.200 against this objective evil. So in the centuries of discussion of abortion, Christians have debated

00:48:31.640 issues. There have been Christians on different sides of the issue, like when exactly the baby

00:48:36.460 isn't sold, the proper ecclesiastical penalties for abortion, whether they're extreme circumstances

00:48:42.500 where abortion might be acceptable, but they don't override the normative Christian position

00:48:47.160 for literally 2000 years, that babies are people killing them through abortion is a sin, that it

00:48:53.360 is wrong. And even if every Christian for the past 2000 years had been wrong about this, it doesn't

00:48:59.220 change the fact that all humans are people and killing an innocent person is always wrong and

00:49:05.860 should be illegal period. Okay. That's what you have to get back to. But you also just have to

00:49:11.340 realize that just because someone is confident and talks fast, just because they list what sounds

00:49:16.800 like a bunch of facts doesn't mean that what they're saying is actually true. And so don't

00:49:22.160 allow yourself to be overwhelmed with a gish gallop. Don't allow yourself to be taken by

00:49:26.980 someone's posture, by someone's confidence, because there were so many factual errors in

00:49:31.540 what was said and so many inconsistencies in her argument over those 16 minutes. I obviously didn't

00:49:38.000 have time to address all of them today or in the debate, but it's important just to slow down and

00:49:42.540 get down to the fundamentals. All right. Now I want to talk about Lindsay Clancy and I want to

00:49:48.220 talk about the TikTokification of her case and the feminist mind and what it tells us about our

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00:50:46.120 so in our episode on lindsey clancy we talked about patrick clancy how he's taken the stand

00:50:53.900 some of the things in his testimony the things that he has said and i understand why you could

00:51:00.640 look at patrick clancy just look at him and think oh i don't know about this guy he feels a little

00:51:06.440 bit sketchy that's unfortunate for him because if you were to paint a picture of what a villain

00:51:11.460 looks like, he would kind of fit the bill of the caricature of a villain. People also don't like

00:51:16.660 the fact that he got married so quickly after this and how he talks on the stand, even his

00:51:20.980 posture. Well, TikTok and the mommy sleuths on that platform have run with this, have run with

00:51:27.060 all of these kind of superficial characteristics of Patrick Clancy, and they claim to have solved

00:51:32.280 this mystery and they are pinning the murders on him. Now, just to backtrack a little bit,

00:51:37.340 if you haven't been following this, Lindsay Clancy is a mother who has, according to her

00:51:44.300 legal team, admitted to killing her three young children and attempting to kill herself while her

00:51:48.700 husband was out of the house. She is currently on trial to determine whether she can be held

00:51:52.600 criminally responsible for their deaths or whether her postpartum psychosis rendered her

00:51:57.620 not criminally responsible. As I said, we've looked at all of these angles, all the different

00:52:02.400 medications she was on, how she was able to accomplish this. But it does come down to the

00:52:08.960 fact that Lindsay's own team is not disputing her actions. Her lawsuit against her medical

00:52:17.600 provider says this. So she's suing her medical providers for all these different interacting

00:52:21.700 medications she was on. Lindsay now faces a lifetime of physical disability, psychological

00:52:26.400 trauma, and the unbearable grief of waking up every day, knowing she killed her children,

00:52:29.800 all of which could have been prevented had defendants provided competent care. Okay. So

00:52:35.700 that is what they are alleging. Her lawsuit also says that she experienced auditory hallucinations

00:52:42.240 in which a demanding powerful male voice ordered her to kill her children. The filing says that

00:52:46.720 she said, I lost all control. My body started acting without any control on my part. I was

00:52:50.680 just following commands, all action. This voice demanded action. Um, now I just want to give you

00:52:57.940 a trigger warning just to remind you of what she did. Okay. So this was, I think about eight months

00:53:05.040 postpartum. She went through some hard births. She was going through some hard time. We've got,

00:53:09.480 you know, diary entries that has published saying that she's going through a hard time.

00:53:13.280 She asked her husband to leave the house, to run a couple errands. Now she had also completed a

00:53:19.880 hospital stay at the time. And I think maybe her husband thought she was doing better that she had

00:53:24.700 improved. Um, but on this day she told her husband, Hey, I want you to go pick up dinner and

00:53:30.880 pick up this other thing that would keep him occupied for a while while he was gone. This

00:53:36.240 is very disturbing for me to talk about. I'm sure it's disturbing to hear too. She brought her

00:53:40.500 children down five, three, eight months into the basement and strangled each of them one by one

00:53:45.500 with exercise bands. Now I I'm not trying to get us to dwell on this because I understand it's so

00:53:50.940 dark, but I do think it's important to really, to really get this. Like if we are going to say,

00:53:56.480 well, it was just the psychosis or it was just the medication. Think about the strength and

00:54:01.260 the resolve and the persistence and the callousness that it takes to strangle your small

00:54:06.820 children one by one with exercise bands while the other ones are crying, while the other ones are

00:54:11.480 asking mommy, what are you doing? While the other ones are probably trying to run away.

00:54:16.240 I just can imagine that whoever went first, either the five or the three-year-old is trying

00:54:22.260 to run away. And she is, she successfully prevented them all from doing so, held them all down with

00:54:28.220 brute strength and killed them all, held that exercise band as tightly as she could until they

00:54:33.660 stopped breathing and died. Okay. She did that to her baby. She did that to her toddler. She did

00:54:38.980 that to her five-year-old. I just want us to remember that, that no matter what you think

00:54:42.720 about what caused this, those are the victims. And that's what happened to the victims. And those

00:54:48.000 are the primary victims, no matter what. Okay. But it seems like the feminists on TikTok and

00:54:53.800 just women on TikTok in general, they're not having that. Okay. I have, I've seen so few

00:54:59.480 videos talking about the children and talking about what they must have suffered in so many

00:55:05.660 videos, especially on TikTok, about how badly we should feel about Lindsay Clancy. I do feel bad

00:55:13.260 for Lindsay Clancy just having gone through separate. Let's separate that. Lindsay Clancy

00:55:18.600 before she murdered her children. I can understand the circumstance that she was in, the struggle

00:55:23.860 that she had, the medications, which I'm against, by the way, SSRIs in the vast majority of cases.

00:55:30.420 I just think that they can exacerbate symptoms rather than fix them.

00:55:34.380 And so I think she had a lot going on.

00:55:36.600 It can be true that we say she was failed in a variety of ways.

00:55:40.560 We can ask, why did her husband leave her alone in all of these things?

00:55:44.100 But at the end of the day, she methodically killed her children.

00:55:48.440 And I cannot say with any confidence and you cannot say with any confidence that it was

00:55:52.760 psychosis that caused that or that it was the medication that caused that.

00:55:56.080 We just don't know.

00:55:57.400 And the truth is people who commit heinous crimes are all on probably the spectrum of

00:56:01.920 psychosis.

00:56:02.680 They're probably insane in one way or another.

00:56:05.060 And if we said, well, no one could possibly do this without being insane, then no one's

00:56:11.120 going to prison for anything.

00:56:12.500 Then we never have justice for any victims and we don't protect anyone else from being

00:56:16.640 harmed again.

00:56:17.940 Okay.

00:56:18.240 If that's how our justice system is working, that we're negating justice because of someone's

00:56:22.440 mental health diagnosis in every single case, then we have no justice system.

00:56:26.480 Okay.

00:56:27.400 Also, by the way, like you can't close all the insane asylums, which is basically what we've

00:56:32.440 done, what Ronald Reagan did in the 1980s and say that mentally ill people can't go to jail.

00:56:37.080 And so all of us have to bear the brunt of that. I'm sorry, that just doesn't work.

00:56:41.440 So, but that is not the narrative that is being taken by the feminists on TikTok. The popular

00:56:46.380 theory is that Patrick Clancy actually murdered them. Okay. That it couldn't possibly be Lindsay,

00:56:51.600 that it was Patrick Clancy.

00:56:53.680 And what evidence do they have?

00:56:56.820 Vibes.

00:56:57.880 Here is Lisa Rinna.

00:56:59.400 She's saying that she and her therapist,

00:57:01.480 shock of all shocks,

00:57:03.160 came up with this theory

00:57:04.860 that it could not have possibly been Lindsay.

00:57:08.400 It's not nine.

00:57:09.480 Chit-chat.

00:57:11.700 All right, he did it.

00:57:13.080 Patrick did it.

00:57:14.300 Patrick's the one who did it.

00:57:16.440 Not Lindsay.

00:57:18.000 Patrick did it.

00:57:18.740 Because, you know,

00:57:19.600 i also heard that women typically don't strangle so awful to even say but that isn't what a woman

00:57:36.000 would do they don't strangle i was actually in therapy today and my therapist and i were talking

00:57:43.840 about it. And she said, I said, well, what do they do? She said, well, they poison or I said,

00:57:49.780 or, or drown them. Like we literally had that conversation today. Um, and she looks at me and

00:57:58.400 she goes, he did it. Wow. Yeah. And now, yeah. Yeah. I mean, how can you say this publicly? So

00:58:07.620 casually? I mean, this has massive implications on this person's life as far as we know, and we

00:58:13.480 don't know everything but as far as we know from all the facts that we have and her own admission

00:58:18.080 by the way that she killed her children like he is just a guy who walked in to his wife being

00:58:24.820 paralyzed after throwing herself out the out of the window and finding the dead bodies of his

00:58:29.480 strangled children in the basement and now he has to go through these tiktok lawyers who are accusing

00:58:36.340 him of actually being the murderer based on nothing except for vibes i think that's wrong

00:58:42.680 I don't have any affinity towards this guy. I don't know him. I'm not saying that he is some

00:58:46.540 virtuous dude. I literally have no clue. I just think it's wrong to accuse people of things

00:58:51.500 without evidence and just based on feelings. But as we know from the past year, that's very

00:58:56.880 lucrative business. It's very popular business to accuse people of murder or being included in

00:59:03.680 a plot of murder based on just what you know and what you feel. Here's another TikTok user that

00:59:09.700 has become popular over the past few weeks peddling this theory saw 10 the more i watch

00:59:14.680 this trial the more i am convinced that patrick did it i don't think that he thought lindsey

00:59:21.600 would be alive for this trial to even happen i think it would be case closed suicide murder

00:59:30.400 type situation and he could go run off with his new family what are y'all's thoughts

00:59:37.080 okay so what would be the reason for lindsey saying that she did it and admitting that she

00:59:44.060 did it you don't think the defense team who wants her to be let off or at least get her out of prison

00:59:50.420 for the rest of her life would come up with an alternate theory like that like these people

00:59:55.960 think that they care more about lindsey clancy than her lawyers do and i promise that you don't

01:00:02.700 If that was a viable theory, her lawyers would be pursuing that.

01:00:06.300 Her lawyers would be at least presenting that to the jury because that's what their job

01:00:10.700 is to cast doubts on her culpability.

01:00:13.320 But they have not taken that route.

01:00:14.700 They have not said maybe it wasn't her.

01:00:18.580 They have simply said, yeah, it was her, but this is why she was suffering and it's not

01:00:23.540 really her fault.

01:00:25.740 Okay, this is what they do.

01:00:27.200 And it's not just in this case, but in all of these cases, they will exploit.

01:00:32.700 the gaps. They will look at a story and they will say, well, that's weird. That's weird.

01:00:38.520 That's strange. It doesn't seem like I have an answer for that. And they will put all of those

01:00:43.400 pieces together without actually tying them together. They'll just kind of throw them at you,

01:00:48.120 gish gallop. And they will say, look at all of these different things that are happening.

01:00:52.360 Isn't that strange? I don't know. I'm not, I don't know. It's just weird. It's just odd. I'm just

01:00:58.300 saying it's odd. And all they've done is plant suspicion. And so the next time you see a video

01:01:03.200 and the next time you see a video and the next time you see a video, suddenly you think that

01:01:07.420 you have all of this knowledge of this alternate theory that is really true. But when it comes

01:01:13.460 down to it, you don't. If someone were to ask you, like, what is the evidence against Patrick

01:01:17.820 Clancy? I guarantee you, you would start to clam up and not know what to say because you've been

01:01:22.160 gish galloped. You've been overwhelmed with seeming facts that are really just vibes. And

01:01:27.280 that's not enough to slander a person. That's not enough to accuse a person. So there's also this,

01:01:33.860 like, let me give you an example of this. Um, they're looking at like, people have too much

01:01:39.140 time on their hands. There's too much time on their hands. Okay. They just really do. So some

01:01:43.980 of these people are looking at video surveillance footage of Patrick's shoes, which look different

01:01:49.600 in the surveillance footage from CVS just after 5 30 PM, the day of his kid's death.

01:01:54.120 and from 3v the restaurant where he picked up takeout the two places where she told him to go

01:01:59.500 at about 5 54 p.m the footage was not played to implicate patrick in the actual trial but to

01:02:04.660 establish a timeline event but people are saying that okay wait his shoes look different and so he

01:02:10.660 must be going home in between cvs and in between 3v and maybe that is like how he committed these

01:02:17.580 crimes and when he committed the crimes however the different appearances of the shoes could

01:02:22.340 potentially be explained by the fact that the footage was taken from two different angles,

01:02:25.720 okay? On two different surveillance systems, accounting for the different resolutions and

01:02:29.700 angles. It is likely that Patrick did not change his shoes. And like, it just, that's not enough.

01:02:37.420 It's just not enough. And even if he did, that alone doesn't prove any guilt. Like we need,

01:02:44.000 we need something. Like you need a hobby. Like I would never wish hard times on this nation,

01:02:50.080 but I look at some of the men and women and their behavior on social media, and I'm like,

01:02:54.240 you need something that is bringing you into the battlefield, okay? Men need to go work at

01:03:00.420 steel factories again. Women need to start sewing again. We need something that is occupying our

01:03:06.580 time more than things like this, okay? Because this is leading people into a dark place.

01:03:12.600 TikTok users are also taking the DNA analyst testimony out of context by claiming that the

01:03:17.040 exercise bands used to kill the children did not include lindsey's dna at all and only had

01:03:22.660 patrick so here's what they're saying it's not 11 okay we're gonna try this again because i just

01:03:26.920 got a community violation so i'm getting caught up on my clancy news and i just heard that they

01:03:33.860 did not find any of her dna on the exercise bands that were used to smurder the children

01:03:39.700 but patrick's the husband his dna was on the van so so you're telling me a woman

01:03:48.700 in psychosis had the wherewithal to clean off all the dna but just hers not the children

01:03:59.340 and not his that's what you're telling me okay that's not even true okay it was expected that

01:04:07.600 his DNA would also be on the exercise bands. He was the one who removed them from his children's

01:04:11.780 necks after he found them dead. They had also been probably been used before. Former Massachusetts

01:04:16.000 state police forensic scientist, uh, Katerina Stashen, I think is how you pronounce her last

01:04:22.420 name testified that DNA from all five family members was actually found on the set of exercise

01:04:27.080 band, but not on every swab of every portion of the band. So Lindsay's DNA was detected

01:04:32.120 on at least some of the samples there's a forensic scientist amy santoro explained in a tiktok video

01:04:38.960 that the fact that the dna results were a complex mixture from related people with very similar dna

01:04:43.020 profiles makes the data difficult to interpret she also added that patrick's amplified state

01:04:49.420 where he could have been rushed and sweating as he removed the bands could have caused him to leave

01:04:53.340 more skin cells behind so again all of this is not necessarily an indication that he is guilty now

01:05:01.820 if someone has real evidence, then I think that that should be brought forth. But again,

01:05:06.560 all of these are vibes. Okay. Um, another reason why conspiracy theorists think Patrick Clancy is

01:05:12.300 actually guilty in this case is Lindsay's body temperature, which was 82 degrees when she arrived

01:05:16.760 at the hospital there. They argue that her body didn't have enough time to drop to that level.

01:05:22.700 Like my goodness, y'all, um, in the 20 to 30 minutes, it took for Patrick to return from

01:05:27.840 running a few short errands and so tiktokers are asking like why was she so cold but it's probably

01:05:35.700 obvious that lindsey clancy she cut her wrists and she cut her neck before jumping out of a

01:05:42.260 second story window according to the prosecution these facts are not disputed by lindsey and her

01:05:47.380 defense and that when you do that you can get hypothermia like your body temperature can go

01:05:53.800 down. Dr. James Chow, he's a plastic and reconstructive surgeon with more than 25 years

01:05:57.980 of experience. He told parade.com that Clancy's hypothermia was medically possible, not only

01:06:03.120 because of heat loss that she would have incurred lying injured on the frozen ground on a January

01:06:07.240 night in Massachusetts. Hello, but also because of blood loss, shock, and a spinal cord injury

01:06:12.900 that impairs the body's ability to shiver and constrict blood vessels to maintain his core

01:06:17.240 temperature. I mean, that makes a lot of sense. Again, it's just so strange how they're pulling

01:06:22.160 out these random factoids and they're connecting them to nothing except for their own feelings.

01:06:27.540 You will be overwhelmed by the videos that are defending Lindsay Clancy and going against

01:06:34.720 Patrick Clancy and all of these people who think that they have this very interesting view on

01:06:39.840 things. And they have now raised almost $900,000 on GoFundMe as of Tuesday morning with a goal of

01:06:48.120 reaching 2 million, um, to support Lindsay, to support her family. The page says that the funds

01:06:55.260 are for her parents. But if you look at the image associated with the page in the comments,

01:06:59.780 you can see that this page is also meant to support Lindsay. Like obviously they are portraying

01:07:05.460 Lindsay as the victim here and she is being protected by all of these women. She is, if you

01:07:10.920 don't know this paralyzed from the waist down from her apparent attempt to kill herself by throwing

01:07:14.660 herself out of the window. And then you've got all of these women who are standing around supposed

01:07:19.760 to be protecting her and raising $2 million on her behalf. Okay. So it's this AI generated image

01:07:28.420 that is trying to depict that. Commenters on the page say things like we stand with her. We believe

01:07:34.260 her. We will continue to stand by her as the truth comes to light. And please use my donation to

01:07:39.700 better investigate Patrick's role in this tragedy. Wow. Okay. So there is actually a cultural reason

01:07:48.240 that has been going on for at least 20 plus years, probably more than that, that I think

01:07:55.160 is making theories like this so popular. And it is this idea that a woman is so complicated

01:08:04.320 and so complex and so buried by the patriarchy that anything she does can be understood

01:08:12.200 from the perspective of her being a victim of oppression. Even if she does do an evil thing,

01:08:21.580 even if she does take part in violence and wickedness, there was probably a good reason

01:08:27.580 for it. That's the idea that we hear. We'll get into that in just a second. Let me pause,

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01:09:33.460 So here's what I said on X a few days ago. To understand some of the unconditional defense

01:09:38.620 of Lindsay Clancy, because by the way, some of it is unconditional. I saw a TikTok video of a

01:09:43.880 woman rocking her baby and she was saying, me too, Lindsay, me too. Yikes. Yikes. Okay.

01:09:49.460 to understand some of the unconditional defense of lindsey clancy and the baseless accusations

01:09:55.040 of her husband circulating on feminist tiktok you have to clue in on to the content that women are

01:10:01.060 consuming on a daily basis the backdrop of their brains is made up of true crime podcasts fiction

01:10:06.460 books tv shows movies that paint every woman even murderous ones as complex heroines who did a

01:10:13.620 horrible thing as her only chance at freedom and empowerment. She's portrayed as, uh, she's

01:10:19.520 portrayed as at best brave and unhindered and at worst layered and misunderstood. This dynamic has

01:10:25.660 completely warped the lib female consciousness and conscience. They cannot imagine a world in

01:10:30.620 which a woman, especially a struggling one, struggling one just did an evil thing and should

01:10:34.940 be held accountable for it for the past 20 or so years. Pop culture has contributed to this idea

01:10:42.580 that women are always victims in one way or another, no matter how evil their actions might

01:10:47.780 be. Like I think of a few, I think of a few things. I think of a few songs, movies, TV shows,

01:10:53.960 and books in popular culture. There is this song by Taylor Swift in 2020 called Nobody, No Crime.

01:10:59.540 It's a dark song. And Taylor sings about a friend named Esty, whose husband has a mistress. And

01:11:05.500 after Esty disappears and the husband marries the mistress, the singer talks about how she

01:11:09.360 kills the husband. So the lyrics say, good thing my daddy made me get a boating license when I was

01:11:14.140 15 and I've cleaned enough houses to know how to cover up a scene. Good thing Esty's sister going

01:11:19.540 to swear she was with me. Good thing his mistress took out a big life insurance policy. No body,

01:11:25.460 no crime. No, no body, no crime. I wasn't letting up until the day that he died. Okay. Anyone

01:11:33.220 remember the song from the 90s earl had to die now unfortunately i know all of the lyrics

01:11:41.520 from this song because there were a lot of country songs that i probably sang on my way to

01:11:46.160 kindergarten that i had no idea what they meant but i could repeat verbatim the lyrics from you

01:11:52.040 like who's bad have your boots been under i got in trouble for singing that at kindergarten

01:11:55.800 um had no idea what that meant and this is also one of those songs and it wasn't until later in

01:12:01.500 life that I'm like, Oh, they're talking about murdering someone. The Dixie chicks Earl had to

01:12:05.340 die. Now I don't have to read you all of the lyrics, but basically it's a song about this

01:12:10.560 guy named Earl who was a horrible guy. Okay. It was a husband who was abusing, um, Mary or, uh,

01:12:17.760 not Marianne was abusing the other woman Wanda. And so Marianne, her friend and Wanda, they got

01:12:24.220 together to kill Earl, to poison him. Earl had to die. Okay. You probably remember that now that's

01:12:30.820 not to say that Earl shouldn't have been severely punished and shouldn't have gone to jail for the

01:12:36.560 rest of his life and wasn't an awful person or that we don't want Wanda to have protection from

01:12:42.680 Earl. But this is another one of those ideas that if a woman commits a horrible crime, it was

01:12:49.820 probably because she was being abused or oppressed in some way. All of these kind of shape our

01:12:55.060 conscience and our consciousness. Remember the TV series, which I watched at the time,

01:12:59.960 probably didn't think that much of it, starting in 2017, the series Big Little Lies. It ran for

01:13:06.060 two seasons. To be honest, it wasn't very good. It was one of those very first shows that was so

01:13:12.240 much of the slop of nothing happens, nothing happens, nothing happens. One thing almost

01:13:17.580 happens at the end, and then you have to watch the next episode. It was a star-seted cast with

01:13:22.400 Laura Dern, Reese Witherspoon, Nicole Kidman. It's a murder mystery, and it's set in a wealthy

01:13:26.780 coastal town and um we know from the start that perry right this character is dead but we don't

01:13:33.980 know how he died it's gradually revealed that perry was abusive to his wife celeste and had

01:13:39.500 also previously raped another uh character and so in the climax of the movie bonnie another character

01:13:46.420 pushes him down a flight of stairs during a confrontation the group of women then cover up

01:13:50.680 the truth and claimed that he simply fell. Okay. So again, horrible person, horrible crimes

01:13:58.120 committed. We don't like him. We think he's terrible. That's all true. But this plays into

01:14:02.560 the idea that if a woman commits a terrible crime, it must be for a good reason, because that's the

01:14:07.620 only reason a woman would ever do something that awful. If we look at books and you know, my team,

01:14:13.980 they included this one and I was like, I didn't think about this as being an example. And it's

01:14:18.520 Where the Crawdads Sing. It's the 2018 novel by Delia Owens. I really enjoyed this book. Some of

01:14:24.780 you out there I've talked to, you didn't like Where the Crawdads Sing because you thought it

01:14:27.560 was too depressing. I love depressing books. That's one thing about me. I want to sob and

01:14:31.940 cry at the end of the book. And I did sob and cry at the end of the book. But this is also one of

01:14:37.500 those examples. She's suspected in the death of a local man by her neighbors because she's seen as

01:14:42.600 strange. She's tried, found not guilty, but at the end of the book, it's revealed that she did

01:14:48.720 actually kill him when he tried to rape her. Now, I don't think it's wrong for him, for her to have

01:14:54.040 killed someone who was trying to rape her. That is self-defense. Um, if that is what is happening,

01:15:00.020 but again, contributes to the idea that the only reason a woman would do anything is if something

01:15:04.700 is happening to her. The housemate series by Freda McFadden have not read the series.

01:15:09.140 It's a collection of psychological thrillers about a young woman hired as a live-in house

01:15:14.520 made by wealthy households with dark secrets.

01:15:17.120 In this first book, she kills the husband who tried to rape her, again, contributing

01:15:22.780 to this idea that women only do things when they're pushed to the edge or it can't actually

01:15:27.360 fully be her fault.

01:15:29.120 And then we have the category of films and cultural examples of women not being able

01:15:37.360 to be portrayed unconditionally as villains, but really as complicated and nuanced and even

01:15:44.300 justified in their terrible actions. I think about Elsa from Frozen. She's the complex

01:15:50.880 protagonist. She shuts out her own sister throughout her childhood. And then when she

01:15:54.900 grows older, she freezes her kingdom because of her anger. She sings, let it go. And she says,

01:16:00.260 no right, no wrong, no rules for me. I'm free. Now we do see that she suffers the consequences

01:16:05.760 of her isolation and of her selfishness. And ultimately she has to be selfless in order for

01:16:11.680 her to overcome some of those things and the consequences of her actions. So I'm not saying

01:16:16.420 Frozen is all a bad lesson, but this is an example. There was actually no real villain in Frozen.

01:16:23.220 It wasn't really Elsa. It was this complicated female figure whose past trauma kind of justified

01:16:30.420 her selfishness in how rude and mean she was to her sister, Anna. Also, there's another Disney

01:16:37.920 movie. They're trying to do this. There's all kinds of Disney movies that are trying to retell

01:16:44.460 the story from the villain's perspective. And one of them is a new movie that's going to come out

01:16:49.500 called Stepsisters. And it's going to be a live action spinoff of Cinderella. And it's an early

01:16:54.500 development. And, uh, it features the protagonist to wicked step sisters. Now this rendering of

01:17:02.700 the story is going to be from their perspective. And what is it going to portray that they're

01:17:06.660 really just misunderstood that it, they weren't actually just rude. They weren't actually just

01:17:13.440 mean. They weren't actually just covetousness or covetous and jealous that really they had

01:17:19.740 their own issues and we should be more understanding. Disney does this over and over

01:17:24.860 again, telling the story from the villain's perspective. It's supposed to blur the lines

01:17:29.560 of virtue and vice. It's supposed to blur the lines of good and evil. I think it perpetuates

01:17:35.160 this idea because so far I've only really seen it from the female perspective, the female villain's

01:17:39.880 perspective, that a woman only acts in a way that is wrong when there is some circumstance that is

01:17:49.460 causing her to act that way. It's also just what progressives get wrong all the time about human

01:17:56.120 nature. When they see nature versus nurture, they think everything is nurture. They don't believe

01:18:03.160 in a sin nature. They don't believe that there is an objective right and wrong. So that worldview

01:18:08.320 really comes out in all of the art that they create, but it also affects our minds and how we

01:18:14.020 see real life situations. There are all kinds of true crime podcasts. There's crime junkie,

01:18:19.760 there's morbid, there's lady killers. And this one specifically goes through women who have

01:18:26.660 killed, but it then unpacks how society and abuse and circumstances really pushed them to kill.

01:18:33.400 There's also a female criminals podcast that covers similar cases with more of a focus on

01:18:39.260 psychology and motive. Five of the top 10 podcasts on Apple podcasts are true crime.

01:18:44.960 And so this just goes to show, this is a very popular category. This is also, um, convinced

01:18:50.280 a bunch of women that they know more than they do. Okay. And that they are more, um,

01:18:58.700 sophisticated and smarter than they actually are when it comes to sleuthing. Now I'm not saying

01:19:04.240 that all women who follow true crime are actually dumb or that they don't know anything or that

01:19:09.400 they're never asking good questions. But I think that these kinds of podcasts fill us with the

01:19:14.980 kind of confidence that we shouldn't have. And there are some people that I do just want to ask

01:19:19.540 like, okay, let me give you an example. Like I'm bad at math. Okay. Like I'm, I'm not good at math.

01:19:26.080 And if there were a podcast out there that was saying that two plus two equals five,

01:19:30.580 and they were giving what seemed like a very convincing argument for that. And it sounded

01:19:35.800 good to me and it made sense to me. And they totally convinced me that two plus two equals

01:19:39.520 five. But my friend who was always really good at math is like, Hey, I don't think so. Like,

01:19:45.220 that's not right. And here's why what he's saying is wrong. It would be really dumb of me to think

01:19:50.240 about my brain and look back on my life and insist that I'm right. I think some people who think that

01:19:56.360 they know better than the defense team and think that they know better than all of these people

01:20:00.060 who are actual experts should think back in their life and be like, have I traditionally been

01:20:04.180 someone who people say is smart? Like, have I been someone who figures things out easily and

01:20:12.560 is like really, uh, really adept at these kinds of investigations? And if the answer is no,

01:20:19.280 then you're probably just wrong here. Like you're probably just going off vibes. Like I think we

01:20:25.780 need to have a better self-assessment of like what our skills actually are and leave some things,

01:20:31.580 not everything, but some things up to the experts because you could be ruining someone's life

01:20:36.220 by your vibes and by publicizing your vibes, right? And this is all kind of the secular

01:20:42.520 mindset of right versus wrong and male versus female too. All right. Last sponsor for the day

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01:21:38.840 Remember that scripture reminds us not to call conspiracy everything that the world calls

01:21:43.440 conspiracy.

01:21:44.600 Isaiah 520 reminds us, woe to those who call evil good and good evil, who put darkness for

01:21:49.660 light and light for darkness, who put bitter for sweet and sweet for bitter.

01:21:53.260 Proverbs 11.1, a false balance is an abomination to the Lord, but a just weight is his delight.

01:21:58.480 God cares a lot about justice. He cares a lot about truth. And that's why in the Old Testament,

01:22:02.840 as he is giving his law to ancient Israel, he says that you shall speak the truth about your

01:22:08.620 neighbor and that justice is impartial, that it's truthful, that it's direct, that it's

01:22:14.180 proportional, that it is not based on hearsay and that you can be charged by the presence of

01:22:21.420 two or three eyewitnesses. Like the old Testament law giving gives us a precedent for giving rights

01:22:29.100 to both the accused and the accuser. And in the court of social media, you don't have those rights

01:22:34.780 as the accused. You have no rights. You don't even have the rights to a defense because you

01:22:40.600 don't have an attorney that's pleading for you and arguing on your case. You are totally at the

01:22:45.740 whims of the mob and that's wrong. And Christians shouldn't contribute to that. You shouldn't

01:22:49.960 contribute to that if someone is presenting something to you without evidence. It's not to

01:22:55.400 say that people can't actually bring, like we did this on Monday, bring real evidence and real

01:23:01.000 testimony forward and shine light and blow the whistle on evil things that are happening,

01:23:05.900 but you've got to have a good case for it, right? Proverbs 24, 23. These also are sayings of the

01:23:12.980 wise. Partiality in judging is not good, okay? So showing partiality to one side or the other,

01:23:19.140 one gender or the other based on what feels right to you. Not good. Leviticus 19, 15, you shall do

01:23:25.480 no injustice in court. You should not be partial to the poor, nor defer to the great. People forget

01:23:29.920 about that, but in righteousness or in truth, you shall judge your neighbor. James 2, 1, my brothers

01:23:35.480 show no partiality as you hold the faith in our Lord Jesus Christ, the Lord of glory.

01:23:40.160 Be careful what you consume. Be careful what you repost. Be careful what you perpetuate.

01:23:45.280 Check our minds and we need to make sure that we are being renewed in the spirit of our mind

01:23:50.280 We need to make sure that the assumptions that we have the conclusions that we come to

01:23:54.160 Are affected by the truth the reality that is really there that is observable

01:23:59.100 But also the truth that we read in scripture and that if we don't know it's okay to just opt out of a conversation and say

01:24:04.980 I don't have this is okay

01:24:06.640 I don't have the capacity to be following the lindsey clancy story right now

01:24:11.760 I don't have the capacity to dig into and research what is actually true and what actually happened.

01:24:16.660 So I'm not going to watch all the TikTok conspiracies about that. That would be the

01:24:21.540 responsible thing to do. Okay. The responsible thing to do isn't to say, well, I don't have

01:24:26.180 time to do it. So I am going to delegate my critical thinking to TikTokers. That's probably

01:24:29.940 the worst thing you can do. And by the way, you shouldn't delegate your critical thinking to me

01:24:33.480 either. I hope to actually equip you to critically think and help you ask the right questions,

01:24:37.460 but you shouldn't let me do your thinking for you. You should be thinking because God gave you

01:24:42.840 a brain. And if you find yourself in a position of like, okay, I think that I'm allowing other

01:24:47.600 people to think and speak for me, then maybe it's time to just opt out of the commentator

01:24:52.120 space altogether. I'm saying that as a podcaster, only listen to the podcasts that are actually

01:24:56.580 helping you get more deeply into God's word and ask the right questions and to seek the truth

01:25:01.180 better, not the ones that are attempting you to shut your brain off. All right. I know that was

01:25:07.560 a lot. That's all we got time for today. We will be back here on Friday.

Relatable with Allie Beth Stuckey - August 19, 2026

Ep 1386 ｜ Did Patrick Clancy Do It？ Fact-Checking Lindsay Clancy’s Defenders

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