Relatable with Allie Beth Stuckey - Ep 14 ｜ Holy Sexuality with Dr. Christopher Yuan

00:00:00.000 Hey guys, it's Allie with CRTV's Relatable, where I am every Wednesday. I hope that y'all are having

00:00:06.640 a great week. I'm super excited about today's podcast. You guys are going to hear me interview

00:00:12.100 Dr. Christopher Yuan, who is a Christian scholar, teacher, speaker, and author who was previously a

00:00:18.740 practicing gay man as well as a convicted drug dealer. And needless to say, his journey to Christ

00:00:24.540 is an extremely powerful testimony. So you're not only going to hear his story, but he is going to

00:00:32.740 give us insight into what the Bible truly says about homosexuality, how the church is dealing

00:00:38.060 with homosexuality, and how we as Christians can minister to our homosexual friends. You guys have

00:00:43.300 been asking me a lot about this particular subject, but I thought it would be better that you could

00:00:48.340 hear someone who has firsthand experience in this, who has a very compassionate, empathetic,

00:00:53.180 biblical take on sexuality. So I'm so excited for you to hear that. And then after that,

00:00:59.160 this is kind of a long podcast. After that, I'm going to briefly touch on North Korea,

00:01:04.080 what I think about everything that's been happening, the suicides of Kate Spade and Anthony Bourdain,

00:01:09.580 and then a thing that I just don't get, which is a section that I sometimes put at the end of my

00:01:14.760 podcast. I haven't done that one in a while. Like I said, this is going to be a little bit of a longer

00:01:20.020 podcast. So you are welcome to those of you who have asked for a longer format. And I am sorry

00:01:25.740 to those of you who only want like a 30 minute podcast. You can listen to this in chunks and it'll

00:01:30.720 last you all week. Okay, here we go with the interview with Dr. Christopher Yuan. Christopher,

00:01:36.860 thank you so much for joining me. If you could first tell us who you are and what you do.

00:01:42.700 Sure. My name is Christopher Yuan, and I speak on the topic of faith and sexuality, specifically on

00:01:50.820 homosexuality, on reaching the gay community. How do we minister better on this topic? And

00:01:56.960 especially how do we help those who are Christian and yet experience St. Francis Attractions?

00:02:03.320 Wow, that is a really big and really relevant and very hot topic right now, especially with all of

00:02:10.740 the changes in the church and changes really in the sexual and moral revolution that we seem to be

00:02:16.520 happening, having right now. How did you get into this specific niche of theology and Christianity?

00:02:23.900 Well, it was kind of like not by choice. You know, that's the way God works. It's a lot of it is

00:02:29.600 actually through my own personal experience. I wasn't raised in a Christian, in a Christian home.

00:02:35.340 My parents raised me very traditional Chinese values. If you haven't noticed, I am Chinese.

00:02:41.540 And my parents immigrated here from Taiwan. They were born in China, raised in Taiwan,

00:02:46.300 then came here to the U.S. for graduate school. And, you know, as a Chinese American, we have strong

00:02:53.840 family values, but kind of void of really any faith at all, didn't own a Bible. But I have a secret

00:03:01.100 that kept hidden through high school, college, even the Marine Corps reserves. I went to dental

00:03:07.040 school in my early 20s. And it was there that I finally came out of the closet. I began living

00:03:10.960 openly as a gay man. So I decided to go home, break the news to my parents, and I told them I'm gay.

00:03:16.140 Well, my mom, kind of being your typical Asian mother, wanted to control the situation. I don't know 1.00

00:03:22.780 if you ever heard of Tiger Moms. So she controlled the situation. She gave me an ultimatum. She said,

00:03:27.820 you must either choose the family or choose that. And for me, this wasn't a choice. This is who I am.

00:03:32.300 I mean, that's what the world told me then. This is the world that's telling us now. Your sexuality 1.00

00:03:36.760 is who you are. And I bought that. Right. So I told my mom, this is not a choice. This is who I am.

00:03:42.800 And I thought, well, if you can't accept me, I have no other choice but to leave. Left home,

00:03:47.240 devastated my mom. And it's so amazing how God used crisis in our lives to turn us to him.

00:03:52.460 My parents, who were searching for God, turned to him, and they became Christians through that

00:03:57.700 crisis. Wow. And when did you realize that you were gay? And what was that initial process like?

00:04:07.020 Well, you know, I was about nine years old when I first realized I had these attractions. I actually

00:04:14.720 came across pornography at that time when I was nine at a friend's house, of all things. You know,

00:04:19.360 a trusted friend's house that my parents knew. So it wasn't like one of my friends. It was actually

00:04:23.040 my parents' friends. And it was then that I realized that I had these desires. I didn't know

00:04:28.860 what to do with it. And I just, I didn't tell anyone. I was afraid to really tell anyone. This

00:04:32.100 is back in the 70s. Right. So I just kept it hidden. And I really didn't tell anyone.

00:04:39.320 And then as you grew up, you kind of realized, okay, this is the lifestyle that I am going to live.

00:04:45.560 Like you said, that's who I am. And how did you decide, okay, I'm going to tell my parents,

00:04:51.480 no matter what it costs me, and this is the path that I'm going to take? Was that really difficult?

00:04:59.420 Yeah. I mean, so after realizing, you know, so I kind of nuanced a little bit about

00:05:03.920 identifying as gay. You know, I first realized that I had these desires, and it wasn't until my

00:05:09.020 20s that I thought, oh, this is who I am. And, you know, it was, you know, difficult coming to

00:05:16.200 grasp with all these things. And it wasn't until later on that I realized, well, this isn't going

00:05:23.400 away. And I didn't have any framework to think through these things. That's why, you know, we have

00:05:27.840 all these questions. Well, someone has these desires for as long as they remember, and they didn't choose

00:05:32.560 them. And this is why I think it's so important that we, I often tell them, this is in my next

00:05:38.100 book coming up, that I said, human sexuality can't be understood apart from theological anthropology.

00:05:44.220 And I know that sounds really big, but what that really means is simply that we're created in the

00:05:48.660 image of God. And of course, that's good. We have value, dignity. So that means that we shouldn't

00:05:53.580 demean anyone. We should view every person. I mean, even the worst criminal is created in God's image.

00:06:00.760 But then the second part that is so important is that that image has been distorted. So that in

00:06:04.700 that criminal, even though he has that image, he has a sin nature. And the reality is we all have

00:06:10.420 that sin nature. And when I realized now that that helps me to think through not only, you know,

00:06:18.160 all my behaviors and thoughts, but that really helps me to understand my sexuality.

00:06:22.700 But at the time when you came out to your parents, like you said, you had no biblical framework

00:06:27.540 through which that you were analyzing this. So you were thinking about a sin nature. Tell me about

00:06:32.660 those first few years after you decided to leave home and live openly as a gay man, what that was

00:06:39.920 like? Yeah, I, I was in dental school. So I was in my 20s. And I think I just did what most people in

00:06:49.940 their 20 year olds do when they don't know Christ. And that was have fun, enjoy life. And I partied,

00:06:56.100 I would go out with my friends. I, it just happened that the dental school was about three blocks away

00:07:03.000 from the gay clubs. And I went there every weekend. And to be honest, I made some of the greatest

00:07:11.380 friends there. These, the people in the gay community, my gay friends are some of the most

00:07:17.160 loving, nice people. And not, and that's why I get really frustrated when we treat all people in the

00:07:24.440 gay community, like the gay activists, the angry gay activists that hate us. And, or, or that, 0.94

00:07:29.820 that, I mean, it's sometimes reciprocal, unfortunately, but we need to realize that

00:07:33.980 actually a majority of gays and lesbians are not like that. And these were just really wonderful

00:07:41.440 people that just, uh, cried with me when I cried, uh, had fun laugh when I laughed and they were just

00:07:49.080 really good, dear friends of mine and they accepted me. And I think sometimes, um, that,

00:07:55.620 that feeling of acceptance and belonging, uh, should be coming from the body of Christ. And I think

00:08:01.240 sometimes we have some things to learn from, uh, from the gay community and their love. So they

00:08:06.040 accepted me. Um, I was going out to the gay clubs, unfortunately at the gay clubs, I started doing 1.00

00:08:12.640 drugs, which meant I'd have to pay for my habits somehow as a poor dental student. So I did that by selling

00:08:18.160 drugs and I sold to friends, classmates, even a professor. Eventually I actually was expelled

00:08:23.080 from dental school just three months before I was received my doctorate. I then moved to Atlanta,

00:08:28.100 Georgia, and I kept doing what I knew how to do best, which is sell drugs. And my parents really

00:08:33.160 had no clue that I was doing drugs, but they knew my biggest need was know Jesus Christ as my Lord and

00:08:39.640 Savior. So they tried to reach out to me. I wanted nothing to do with it. Uh, my parents came to visit me

00:08:44.480 one time. I told them to get out. And my dad, before he left, gave me his very first Bible.

00:08:50.700 And I, they left, he left on our kitchen counter and I threw it in the trash can, which, which just

00:08:56.040 really shows how much I hated God. I hated their religion. I wanted nothing to do with the Bible. 0.99

00:09:01.060 And it was really obvious after that visit that my parents knew that I was totally hopeless and

00:09:09.020 completely unreachable. And tell me what, tell me what changed. The amazing thing was that they

00:09:15.980 didn't focus upon that hopelessness. You know, oftentimes parents, and I don't blame them. It's

00:09:22.000 just things are getting worse and worse and worse with their kids. They're prodigal, whatever it is.

00:09:26.420 And it's so easy to give up on hope. And I'm, I just praise the Lord that our God is not a God of

00:09:34.820 hopelessness. Our God is a God of hope. And they clung to that hope. And even when things were just

00:09:40.060 getting worse and they, uh, enlisted over a hundred prayer warriors to pray for me from their church,

00:09:46.460 from the Bible study fellowship group. And they, my mother began to pray a bold prayer, which was

00:09:52.900 God do whatever it takes, whatever it takes. That's a scary prayer for mother to make, but she was

00:09:59.820 desperate in her desperation. She fasted every Monday for seven years. Wow. She lasted 39 days

00:10:06.300 on my behalf. Wow. She knew it was going to take nothing short of a miracle. She spent hours in a

00:10:11.140 prayer closet and she knew it was going to take a miracle. So tell me what happened. How did those

00:10:17.440 prayers manifest itself in your life? Well, you know, it's a scary prayer for mother to pray,

00:10:24.080 do whatever it takes. I think oftentimes we will pray God just, you know, whatever it takes, but

00:10:28.180 like we had that, but right, you know, but then we add our little caveat, you know, uh, keep my loved

00:10:34.420 one safe, keep them, you know, off the street, keep them out of prison. But you know what it might be.

00:10:40.980 And sometimes, especially in those extreme cases, it probably does mean maybe being homeless or being

00:10:47.240 put in prison to get our attention. I mean, look through the Bible, how many times God used prison

00:10:53.520 to, uh, to, to awaken, to get someone's attention or to really sharpen and grow someone. I mean,

00:11:02.020 it's, it's just amazing. And so God, my mom was, she was scared, but she just said, I don't know,

00:11:07.820 God, but whatever. And, and God answered her prayer with a bang on my door, open up my door

00:11:13.420 and on the front doorstep for 12 federal drug enforcement agents, Atlanta police and two

00:11:17.260 shepherd dogs. So I found myself in jail and I called home, you know, that's the last place you

00:11:26.920 want to call. And, you know, I just, I was still expecting my parents like their old, old person, 0.72

00:11:33.700 you know, um, ones of, you know, how my mom probably would have responded in the, in the

00:11:39.260 past. Like, you know, what did you do or you deserve it or whatever. And, and her first words

00:11:45.600 to me when she had picked up the phone was, are you okay? No words of condemnation, just

00:11:54.200 words of unconditional love and grace. And I'm, I'm reminded of what Paul says in Romans chapter

00:11:58.720 2 verse 4, that it's God's kindness that, that leads us. That's exactly the verse that

00:12:03.840 came to mind for me. It's not his anger. You know, it's not God's judgment that brings

00:12:08.520 us to repentance. It's his kindness. And, and that's such a good lesson for us, not just

00:12:13.260 parents, for every one of us as Christians that in the midst of our, our duty and calling

00:12:19.980 to be a clear and voice and to stand for truth, it's still God's kindness. And it should

00:12:25.840 be our kindness that leads people to Christ, that leads people to repentance.

00:12:30.520 Exactly. So how long were you in jail and, and when did you actually accept Christ?

00:12:37.160 Yeah. You know, it's so funny because like my mother, uh, I didn't tell my story here.

00:12:42.740 We don't have enough time, but in my, in my first book, uh, the memoir, um, out of a far

00:12:47.360 country, a gay son's journey to God, a broken mother's word for hope. We kind of tell our, 0.99

00:12:51.840 our, our stories, alternating chapters. She wrote chapter one, our chapter two, she, she

00:12:56.580 wrote chapter three, but she tells her story of, um, how she was going to end her life and,

00:13:02.280 and, and God just amazingly used that, uh, and, and brought her to Christ. And, uh, but 0.84

00:13:08.960 for me, so hers was like a, a 180 change from dark to lightness, from unbelief to belief,

00:13:17.180 like one day for me, I, I kind of say I was pretty hard headed. So it took a while. And

00:13:24.660 I think that's why God put me in prison because he knew that I was going to fight. I was going

00:13:29.840 to resist and my heart was so hardened. So it was prison. Um, and you think, well, you

00:13:38.360 know, can things get any worse? So I, well, before I get to that, three days after I was

00:13:43.360 in prison, I was walking on the cell block and I passed by a garbage can and I thought,

00:13:47.300 this is my life. I went closer and there was something right on top of the trash. I

00:13:53.540 went over, picked it up and it was a Gideon's new Testament. Wow. Back to my cell. And I

00:13:58.660 began reading it. That's crazy. So it came full circle from you throwing the Bible away

00:14:03.820 to there being a Bible by a trash can, right? So humorous. And so I took it, began reading

00:14:09.820 it and you know, we, we call the Bible, the gospel, good news, which it is. But as I was

00:14:15.520 reading it, it was not good news for me because I was being convicted of my sin and my rebellion

00:14:20.700 against my parents, but against the government, against God. And I thought, this is not good.

00:14:26.980 Doesn't feel good. This does not feel good. You know, it's so funny. Um, I got into sovereignty

00:14:33.940 before the, the day before I was to be sentenced. Um, I, I was reading and I just happened to read,

00:14:42.240 happened to read Psalm 52, which is when David was so convicted and he's saying, ah, against you

00:14:48.480 alone have I sinned. And I'm like, that's my worst. It was, it was just amazing. I mean, amazing

00:14:53.880 that God was doing that, but for me, it wasn't good news. And I thought, man, this, this is not

00:14:58.340 good news. I thought things can get worse. Well, I was wrong. So a couple of weeks after I was

00:15:03.240 incarcerated, I was brought to the nurse's office and the nurse, I just knew something

00:15:07.700 wasn't right. She wrote something out of, she was like, she couldn't even speak almost.

00:15:10.500 She wrote something out of a piece of paper, slid across the desk to me. And on this piece

00:15:15.200 of paper, I saw three letters and a symbol and it read HIV hospital. The days after were dark

00:15:25.120 and only, I mean, I, I couldn't even go back to the cell block and cry. You know, I mean,

00:15:30.640 I had to be hard like the other inmates and I had to, you know, I just, I just remember

00:15:34.340 that night after that whole day of, you know, trying to stay strong, I just wept in my bed.

00:15:39.340 And a couple days later, they moved me to another cell or another cell block on my way to transition,

00:15:46.940 to transfer to the prison where I was going to do time. And they put me in a cell with no

00:15:52.680 one else. I was in a cell all by myself. And I remember clear as day, I was lying there

00:15:58.420 and they have metal bunks. So I was lying there and I look at the cold metal bunk above

00:16:03.200 me and there was just graffiti, profanity. And someone had a script or something in the

00:16:07.720 corner and it read, if you're bored, read Jeremiah 29, 11.

00:16:12.840 What?

00:16:14.060 For I know the plans that I have for you, declares the Lord. Plans to prosper you, not to harm you.

00:16:20.500 Plans give you hope and a future. And, you know, I mean, there could have been any verse

00:16:24.940 in the whole Bible and God used that verse penned by prophet thousands of years ago to

00:16:31.100 a rebellious nation, Israel, who was in exile that God was saying, I'm going to take you

00:16:36.020 out of exile and I have a plan for you. And God was telling me that he also had a plan

00:16:40.560 for me. And, you know, Ali, I had no clue, no clue where that plan was going to take me.

00:16:46.920 But God just simply gave me enough faith to get through that one day and the next and the

00:16:50.200 next. So, you know, it was the transformation was gradually. You asked, when did I become

00:16:56.360 a Christian? Well, I don't think it was at that point, but it was definitely God was working

00:17:00.120 on me. So the year after I was, I had all this time on my hands. And so I was reading

00:17:04.940 the Bible and I, I was just growing in Christ and I came across some passages that seemed

00:17:10.720 to condemn that core part of who I thought I was, my sexuality. So I went to a chaplain,

00:17:14.880 asked him his opinion. And to my surprise, this chaplain told me that the Bible doesn't

00:17:19.260 condemn homosexuality. And he gave me a book explaining that view. He said, this book explains

00:17:24.300 that view and he gave it to me. And so I'm thinking, man, this is great. I can have my

00:17:27.760 cake and I can eat it too. I mean, who wants to change, right? I mean, if this is who I

00:17:31.420 am, God has to accept me as who I am. I took that book and I had that book in one hand and

00:17:37.700 the Bible in the other. And Ali, let me tell you from a human perspective, I had every reason

00:17:44.600 in the world to accept what that book is claiming to justify the way I had been living.

00:17:50.640 This is the other miracle. It was God's indwelling Holy Spirit that convicted me that those

00:17:56.820 assertions were a clear distortion of God, his word, and his unmistakable condemnations against

00:18:01.560 same-sex relationships. I couldn't even finish that book and I gave it back to the chaplain.

00:18:05.220 That in and of itself is amazing because how many people have I heard of even that have

00:18:11.360 been in your same position and when they have the Bible and they have a book that feels good

00:18:16.360 to them and caters to what they want to feel and who they think they are, how many people

00:18:21.680 end up putting the Bible down and say, no, this book is correct. So it's amazing. And it

00:18:28.060 really is just a testament to the relentlessness of the Holy Spirit in your life that even in the

00:18:33.180 early stages of your faith, even if maybe you weren't even fully a Christian yet, that the

00:18:39.140 Holy Spirit put on your heart that, no, this is the way. Walk in it.

00:18:43.820 Exactly. Exactly. It's just, I mean, that's the Holy Spirit's job. The Holy Spirit's job is to

00:18:51.220 convict us of sin. And sometimes people ask, well, can a person be gay and a Christian? Or are they

00:18:59.220 going to heaven? Or are they going to hell? And it's like, I don't know the eternal answer

00:19:03.320 or the answer to this. That person's eternity because honestly, that person's story isn't

00:19:07.600 finished yet. You know, so God can still work. I mean, tomorrow, next year, but I can say

00:19:13.200 that they are still living in sin and there will be consequences for that. And if we're living

00:19:17.980 in sin and there is, sorry, that was my mom. That's okay. Don't worry. Yeah. And if there

00:19:26.040 is, you know, if there is, the Holy Spirit is abiding in you and there's conviction of

00:19:33.380 sin, then, you know, he's going to convict you of that sin. And if there isn't that conviction

00:19:40.660 of sin, that there's a possibility that the Holy Spirit might not be abiding in that person,

00:19:46.400 which, so we need to be praying for that. We need to be praying for the Holy Spirit.

00:19:49.380 We need to be praying for conversion. We need to be praying for conviction.

00:19:53.060 Exactly. So how long, when did, when did you get out of jail?

00:19:57.820 So it was, um, you know, actually, so it was after that. So I was sentenced to six years.

00:20:05.460 Okay. And, um, it was while it was during that first year. So after, you know, I gave the

00:20:11.540 book, I, I, I just started studying God's word. I, I, I turned to the Bible alone and, you

00:20:16.320 know, I went through every verse, every chapter, every scripture looking for justification.

00:20:20.700 Right.

00:20:21.300 I want to find any type of positive affirmation for monogamous same-sex relationship. And

00:20:25.640 honestly, Allie, I couldn't find any, anything that was a positive affirmation. So I was at

00:20:31.940 a turning point, either abandoned God and his word, live as a gay man, pursue a monogamous 0.67

00:20:37.020 same-sex relationship by allowing my desire. See, that's the important thing by allowing my

00:20:42.680 sexual desires, sexual attractions to dictate not only who I was, but also how I lived or

00:20:51.980 abandon pursuing a same-sex relationship by freeing myself from my sexuality, by not allowing 0.90

00:20:58.620 my sexual desires to control who I am and live as a follower of Jesus Christ. My decision

00:21:05.900 was clear and obvious. I follow Jesus. The days, weeks and the months of abstinence passed.

00:21:10.760 And I realized that my sexuality shouldn't be the core of who I am because I told myself

00:21:17.660 before God loves me unconditionally, and that's true. But as a sinner, don't we like to add

00:21:22.240 to God's, add to God's truth? I added, so therefore God doesn't want me to change. But I realized

00:21:27.860 that unconditional love is not the same thing as unconditional approval of my behavior.

00:21:35.200 Right. My identity shouldn't be defined by my sexuality. My identity shouldn't be defined by my

00:21:39.880 sexual desires. My identity is not gay, ex-gay, or even heterosexual for that matter. Because my

00:21:47.240 identity as a child of the living God must be in Jesus Christ alone. Right. God says, be holy for I

00:21:53.060 am holy. And, you know, I have thought, and I think the church, I felt like the church was telling me

00:21:57.900 in the past, before I became a Christian, that if I were to become a Christian, that I would have to

00:22:03.260 become heterosexual, that the more sexually attracted to women, the more Christian I would be.

00:22:08.940 I realized that even if I had opposite sex attractions, I would still need to flee temptation.

00:22:15.200 I would still need to put to death my sin nature every day. So heterosexuality isn't the goal. And

00:22:19.880 God never says, be heterosexual, for I am heterosexual. But neither did he say, be homosexual,

00:22:25.740 for I am homosexual. God said, be holy, for I am holy. So I always tell people the opposite of

00:22:30.460 homosexuality is not heterosexuality, but the opposite of homosexuality is holiness. 0.76

00:22:36.140 As a matter of fact, the opposite of any sin struggle is holiness. And I would say it was at

00:22:41.400 this point, after about a year of my time in prison, that God really convicted me and showed me that

00:22:47.380 it's not just about belief. It's not just about knowledge, but it's about surrender. And that

00:22:52.440 meant surrendering everything about me. You know, Jesus says, you know, you know, if anyone will come

00:22:58.440 after me, he must pick up his cross, you know, and deny himself, pick up his cross daily and follow

00:23:04.960 me. And that, for me, that meant denying everything about me that I had identified in the past,

00:23:10.380 including my sexuality. And I think it was at that time that I can say that after I realized

00:23:17.700 that the surrender during that time, that is when I really surrendered my life fully to the Lord Jesus

00:23:23.020 Christ. Wow. So that happened. God did another miracle, so many miracles. And he shortened my

00:23:28.360 sentence from six years to three years, which is really unheard of in the federal system. And I,

00:23:33.920 about that time, I had a little over a year left my prison sentence. So it was about two years into

00:23:38.920 my sentence. And I, I knew that God was calling me to full-time vocational ministry. And I needed to

00:23:46.000 learn more about the Bible. So I called on to my parents and I told them, send me an application to

00:23:50.520 the Bible college that I only ever heard of, which is in our home town, Chicago called Moody Bible

00:23:54.280 Institute. But there were signs on the other line, because I think they both dropped their phones.

00:23:59.040 They made a application to me to prison. I filled it out. And, and I, I was so excited until I realized

00:24:04.960 I needed references, not from anybody, but people who knew me as a Christian for at least one year.

00:24:11.380 And I was only being able to persuade a prison chaplain, a prison guard, and another prison

00:24:15.680 inmate to write my references to Moody's. Easily Moody accepted me. And I always tell people,

00:24:20.640 imagine the surprise of my classmates when I answer their question, what did you do this summer?

00:24:26.560 Well, how long do you have? Wow. That's amazing. And you didn't just go to, uh, Moody Bible Institute.

00:24:33.640 You, where else did you go after Moody?

00:24:35.840 Yeah, I went to Wheaton for my graduate school, got my master's in exegesis, and then I got my doctorate of

00:24:41.940 ministry from Bethlehem Seminary in St. Paul. Wow. That's such an amazing transformation. And like

00:24:49.300 you've said over and over again, speaks to God's kindness, his relentless pursuit of us, that there

00:24:57.000 is not a single one of us that are too far off for God to save, that that's exactly why Jesus came,

00:25:03.820 not to save the healthy, but to save the sick. And your testimony is such a powerful example of that.

00:25:09.600 And I love that you have firsthand experience in empathy, not just sympathy, but empathy for one

00:25:17.980 of the most contested topics that we have today. So my question to you is why, why is this so

00:25:26.660 controversial? Why is it so much easier to talk about the, uh, sinful effects of alcoholism or any

00:25:33.800 other sin? But in speaking of homosexuality, it feels like an affront to someone's entire being.

00:25:41.440 Yeah. I think this is a really important question that you asked Ali. And I think, um,

00:25:46.560 if we can really grasp the answer to this, uh, I think we'll, we'll do a much better job in engaging

00:25:56.040 our neighbors, our coworkers, our loved ones, our friends who identify as gay or lesbian. And I think

00:26:03.600 the core issue is identity. As, as I mentioned earlier, um, I think as Christians, the way when we

00:26:12.600 approach an unbeliever on this topic of sexuality, or we approach a person who identifies as gay and

00:26:19.840 most of them are, you know, identify as unbelievers as well, or as non-Christians, uh, we often approach 0.83

00:26:26.660 it, uh, thinking of it strictly as sinful behavior, which it is, but I think we need to step back and,

00:26:34.360 uh, recognize before we address behavior, we need to address who we are identity. And, and again,

00:26:41.380 I'm going to mention this next book that I, I, one of my chapters I wrote is, is on identity and

00:26:47.500 is one of my first chapters, because I think that's the core issue is identity. Um, it's,

00:26:52.780 that book is called, uh, holy sexuality in the gospel, sex design relationships shaped by God's

00:26:58.560 grand story. And the issue is I know of no other sin issue or sinful behavior where it is so closely

00:27:06.640 linked with identity. This is who I am. So let's say adultery. Um, there's, there's,

00:27:17.500 you know, society is not divided on, I would say most unbelievers don't have that much of an issue

00:27:23.840 with identity or maybe instead of adultery, think of, um, sex before marriage. I would say most

00:27:29.220 unbelievers have nothing, they have no issue with, with sex before marriage as Christians. Um, and 0.99

00:27:35.500 maybe as other Judeo Christian, um, uh, you know, religions would, would agree that, and Muslims would

00:27:41.160 probably agree with this, that this is sex before marriage is, is a sin. It is not right. But that's

00:27:48.900 not associated with who you are. It's, it's still associated with an action. Uh, drinking alcoholism

00:27:54.580 is, is really associated with an action, which is, well, now I, this is a little bit why I'm a little

00:28:01.080 bit, um, sometimes when people just identify as an alcoholic, I don't agree with that. That's,

00:28:06.460 that's what I do. That might be what I struggle with. But in general, uh, sexuality has become

00:28:12.220 such an integral aspect of who we are. I mean, if you think about it, Ali, if you have any of your

00:28:17.200 friends that are gay, when they talk about their sexuality, you almost never hear, uh, this is how

00:28:23.620 I am, or this is what I, when I'm attracted to, this is what I feel, or this is what I do. It's

00:28:30.020 always now, this is who I am. So this shift from what I feel to who I am, or this shift from how I

00:28:39.160 am to who I am has created a radically distorted view of personhood. And that is why when we talk

00:28:46.260 about homosexuality as a sin, and honestly, I don't, to be more nuanced when I talk with my gay friends,

00:28:52.960 I don't use that phrase anymore because that's too vague. Because when I say that, they hear that as

00:28:58.500 saying, you view my whole person, everything about me as sin. So I, yeah. So I need to help

00:29:07.400 them first be able to separate sexuality and me. Yes. Sexuality, my influence is an aspect of what I

00:29:16.440 experienced, but I would argue and not say that sexuality is an aspect of who I am. And I think

00:29:23.260 as Christians, we often has fallen into that as well. I know many people who walk around and say,

00:29:27.280 I'm a straight Christian. I'm like, no, you're not. You're a Christian. Your sexual desires and your 0.97

00:29:32.700 propensity, even for sexual desires, should not be a part of who you are. That's how we are, not who

00:29:39.900 we are. There's a big difference between that. How I am is the distortion of sin and even my desires and

00:29:46.760 whatever that is. That's how I am, you know, the direction of my sexual desires. But that's not

00:29:53.660 who I am. So the question, of course, then is, who am I? And so clear in Genesis, God created us

00:30:00.300 in his own image. That's who we are. That image that was distorted in Genesis 3. But then we get

00:30:06.020 Jesus Christ in the New Testament, as we get in Colossians 1, that says that he is the image of

00:30:11.860 living God and he is the perfect image of God. And so when we come to Christ, what Christ is doing is

00:30:17.780 redeeming us, but also restoring the image that has been distorted by sin.

00:30:23.920 What do you say to people? This is something that I am hearing a lot, is that, okay, so the Bible 0.97

00:30:29.940 doesn't have any specific affirmation of homosexuality, but, you know, God is love. Love is

00:30:36.380 important. And if two men or two women love each other unconditionally, why isn't that okay? Is God

00:30:44.220 really against love? We should just be loving each other. I think that's another reason, too,

00:30:50.200 why it's a hard conversation to have, because you're not just talking about lust. You could be

00:30:54.220 talking about two married men that have loved each other for 25 years, who they very much are a part

00:31:00.520 of each other's life and spirit and being. And you're saying that that's wrong in God's eyes. How do

00:31:07.020 you break down that kind of redefinition of love that even some of the churches latched onto?

00:31:15.000 Yeah, I think that's one of the core issues. Love is love. I think that's usually what we hear all

00:31:21.680 the time. Love is love and let people love who they want to love. And I agree with that statement.

00:31:27.680 Love is love. We need to let people love who they want to love. But I would argue love does not equal

00:31:33.500 sex. Love does not equal even romance. And if we look at scripture, I mean, even in the New Testament,

00:31:41.120 which is written in Greek, love has different words. So there's actually different categories of

00:31:48.080 love. We find the brotherly love, sisterly love, friendship love, that's phileo. We find the erotic

00:31:57.740 form of love, which is eros. We have love that is unconditional. That's the agape love.

00:32:05.900 But we also have instances in the Old Testament where they talk about love. There's only one word

00:32:10.080 in Hebrew for love, ahava. And that word, love in the New Testament, generally is good. But we have

00:32:17.820 some instances that talk about that love is not good. We have Judah loved Tamar. And that was not good.

00:32:27.400 And so we have these instances of love that is actually not good. So love isn't always love.

00:32:35.060 The right form of love is always good. But I think we need to help people to understand love. So for

00:32:41.500 example, there's a brother and a sister. They love each other. That's good. But does that then mean that

00:32:50.860 they should marry one another, right? I mean, that's what I would kind of push back. A father loves his

00:32:55.460 daughter. That's good, right? But does that mean then that the father should marry his daughter or

00:33:02.220 have sex with his daughter? So I think we need to help people to tease that out a little bit more, 0.72

00:33:07.060 I think. What do you love? Because I mean, I love chocolate. You know, I love my cat. You know,

00:33:14.500 people will say, I love whatever. I love spaghetti. So should you marry spaghetti? Yeah. So love is,

00:33:20.360 we can't just, when we say love is love, that sounds great from a surface level. But let's just

00:33:27.920 recognize, first of all, that love is so multifaceted. We use love in so many different

00:33:34.460 ways. And unfortunately, we have equated the deepest form of love to be marriage or the deepest form of

00:33:41.780 love to be sex. And I kind of push back on that a little bit. And some, especially Christians, 1.00

00:33:45.560 sort of, they're surprised because we hold a traditional marriage, which of course I do.

00:33:49.600 But then I push back and I said, actually, marriage is not the highest form of love. You know,

00:33:54.120 I'm sure, Ellie, you're really familiar with Justice Kennedy, who wrote the majority opinion for the

00:33:58.140 Obergefell decision. And if you look, and your listeners and watchers can look online, the very

00:34:05.120 last paragraph of the decision of Obergefell in 2015, he wrote something that was so profound. He said,

00:34:11.400 marriage is the highest ideal of love. And honestly, I think that hit the nail on the head

00:34:18.700 for the way that the world distorts love and marriage. Marriage is good. It's very good. And

00:34:26.880 it's an expression of love, but it is certainly not the highest ideal of love. God is, you know,

00:34:33.960 if you think about it, all the world religions can claim that their God is love. Or I'm sorry,

00:34:40.960 their God is loving. But no religion, no book claims that their God is love. But our God is,

00:34:47.920 Jehovah, Yahweh is love. He embodies love. It's an ontological reality of our God. So I think having

00:34:56.440 this discussion, pressing deeper, not arguing, but just having people think through, you know,

00:35:02.020 this definition of love, first of all, when we use love, it's, there's many layers to it. There's

00:35:06.540 many meanings, but also like, well, let's say I'm not, I'm totally for love. Uh, we should, I should

00:35:12.560 love you, Ali, but that doesn't mean that I should have a romantic relation with you. I mean, that's,

00:35:17.540 that, that's love does not equal sex. Love does not equal romance. God calls us all to love,

00:35:23.620 love your neighbors yourself is the second greatest commandment, but that doesn't mean I should marry

00:35:27.920 my neighbor. Right. And there are, there are different forms. There are different forms of

00:35:32.400 love that, like you said, are good in certain contexts. And quite honestly, the argument that

00:35:37.560 love is love is a circular, it's a circular argument. Um, because it actually love isn't

00:35:43.460 necessarily love. If your definition of love, isn't what God says love is love is the biblical version

00:35:50.920 of love. Love is what God says that it is. And I can understand why someone who's not a believer

00:35:56.400 would say love is love and say, okay, that's great. But I've actually never thought that that

00:36:01.240 was a great argument to begin with. And you make a good point about it because if love is love,

00:36:06.260 then that, does that mean that you can love your family member the same way that you would love

00:36:12.300 your boyfriend? Or is that, does that mean you can love your pet the same way that you can? Of

00:36:16.480 course not. And they would say no, but if love is love, who's to say that it's not, which is why,

00:36:21.740 like you said, it's so important for us as Christians to say, no, love isn't love. Love

00:36:26.680 is what God says that it is. And God is not only love, but love is also God. So, but you know what

00:36:32.300 I mean by that, not in a idolatrous way, but God defines what love is. Um, and I think that's,

00:36:39.980 you know, that's the charge that we have as Christians to be ambassadors of that love, but

00:36:44.440 it's difficult. And I know that you've encountered that as well, but I am so encouraged by your story.

00:36:51.000 If you could tell everyone, um, about your book that's coming out, I think in November

00:36:55.000 and, uh, if they, can they pre-order it? Yes. Okay. So tell us all about that.

00:37:00.880 Sure. Yeah. So my next book is called Holy Sexuality in the Gospel, Sex, Design and Relationships

00:37:07.940 Shaped by God's Grand Story. It's actually available now on Amazon. Uh, it will be released November 20th.

00:37:14.200 So you can pre-order now, but you won't get it until November 20th or maybe the week before. Um,

00:37:19.560 I'm really excited about it. It's, um, I've worked on it over the past four years. I feel

00:37:25.140 like it's my labor of love, you know, like sweat and tears. It's probably one of the hardest

00:37:30.140 things I've done, but I feel like it's one of the most necessary things of the church

00:37:33.360 right now. And, and basically what it is, is a theology of sexuality. And I know people

00:37:37.420 get really scared by that, but it's basically looking at, um, the breadth of scripture, not

00:37:42.700 just the particular pastors that say right and wrong, which I think is important, but I think

00:37:46.220 other authors have done a good job of that. But this is looking at what does it mean to be human?

00:37:50.300 What does it mean to be created in God's image? What does it mean to have a sinful nature? And

00:37:55.060 how does that impact our understanding of sex design relationships? I have a couple of chapters

00:37:59.080 on marriage, a couple of chapters on singleness, a couple of chapters on holiness and discipleship. So,

00:38:04.080 um, I'm really excited about it. And if people want to know more about my ministry,

00:38:08.520 just my website is Christopher you on.com. Um, and, uh, you know, I'm also on social media

00:38:15.740 as well. If they want to follow me there.

00:38:17.360 Yes. Where can they find you on social media?

00:38:19.440 Yeah. So Twitter is at Christopher you on.com and Facebook, my ministry page is facebook.com

00:38:25.900 slash Christopher you on.

00:38:27.440 Okay. Perfect. Well, I'm really excited for my audience to hear this. I know that they,

00:38:33.360 um, are really going to appreciate it. You did a great job of giving us perspective and thank

00:38:37.760 you for your vulnerability and sharing your story. And, um, for all of the lives that I know that

00:38:43.240 you're touching just by showing them what Christ has done in your life.

00:38:46.520 Well, thank you, Allie so much for having me on.

00:38:48.800 Yes. Thank you.

00:38:50.040 Okay. I hope that you guys enjoyed that. Um, if you have questions, uh, for Dr. Yuan,

00:38:55.320 please email them to me, Allie at the conservative millennial blog.com. I, or, I mean, you can reach

00:39:00.900 out to him directly if you want to do that as well. He gave his information, um, in the interview,

00:39:06.280 but I would love to see if Dr. Yuan would indulge us by answering some of our further questions.

00:39:12.700 I actually realized after I interviewed him that there are a few things that I just wish that I

00:39:17.460 had asked him. So, um, I would love to ask him some more questions. So maybe we can get him back

00:39:22.360 for a Q and a. So if you have any specific questions, um, if you don't want to reach out

00:39:26.960 to him directly, send them to me and then I'll have a log of questions and hopefully I can get him

00:39:31.200 back for another interview and we can do a kind of Q and a thing. I think that would be really fun.

00:39:36.620 Okay. Next on the docket, North Korea. Um, I have a not so popular conservative take on this,

00:39:43.600 meaning that most Trump voters probably disagree with me. Uh, so in case you didn't know,

00:39:49.140 president Trump met with Kim Jong-un, the dictator of North Korea. Uh, they met in Singapore this week

00:39:54.560 to discuss denuclearization of the Korean peninsula, which is unprecedented. He was the first sitting

00:40:01.040 president to meet with a North Korean ruler with the North Korean ruler. Uh, the meeting apparently

00:40:06.880 went very well. They signed this document that culminated what the U S called comprehensive and

00:40:12.260 very productive talks. And here are the four things they apparently agreed upon. Uh, the United

00:40:18.980 States and the DPRK commit to establish new U S DPRK relations in accordance with the desire of the

00:40:27.100 peoples of the two countries for peace and prosperity. That's number one. Number two,

00:40:31.900 the United States and the DPRK will join their efforts to build a lasting and stable peace regime

00:40:36.680 on the Korean peninsula. Number three, reaffirming the April 27th, 2018 Panmunjom declaration,

00:40:44.060 the DPRK commits to work toward complete denuclearization of the Korean peninsula.

00:40:48.460 Number four, the United States and the DPRK commit to recovering POW MIA remains,

00:40:55.460 including the immediate rep, uh, repatriation of those already identified. Um, so, okay,

00:41:02.960 that all sounds great, but to me, it also sounds pretty vague. Now I'm not a foreign policy expert,

00:41:09.220 but I, I, I didn't see a lot of specificity in that. Let's also remember that North Korea has been

00:41:16.680 promising denuclearization forever and they haven't actually done it. So I just can't say quite yet

00:41:22.640 that this was this huge, gigantic wind that most conservatives and Trump supporters are saying that

00:41:27.800 it was now. I hope that it is. I hope president Trump is extremely successful in this, but the other

00:41:34.520 issue I have is how president Trump is now talking about and treating Kim Jong-un. Every conservative,

00:41:41.280 uh, media outlet today and yesterday had a heyday making fun of the outlets like CNN and MSNBC for

00:41:49.480 having any problem whatsoever with this meeting. They were making fun of these liberal outlets for

00:41:54.120 criticizing, uh, the American flag being next to the North Korean flag. But you know what? Maybe for 0.71

00:42:00.440 the first time in my life, I actually agree with the liberal media on this, at least, at least in part,

00:42:06.100 um, in that I absolutely cringed seeing the American flag by the North Korean flag. I cringed watching

00:42:13.380 president Trump all chummy with Kim Jong-un. I hate everything that he has said about Kim Jong-un,

00:42:19.660 that he's this great guy, that he's a smart guy, that Kim Jong-un loves his people, loves his country.

00:42:25.160 Okay. This is a guy and a nation who has hundreds of thousands of North Koreans in prison camps,

00:42:31.620 who forces his own people to fertilize their crops with human feces, starves his own people, 0.99

00:42:37.420 allows no freedom of speech, no freedom of religion at all. People are executed for speaking 0.57

00:42:42.520 or worshiping in a way that doesn't comply with the state. If you look at an aerial view of North

00:42:47.700 and South Korea at night, you will see that South Korea is lit up because, you know, it's a normal

00:42:52.620 country because its cities actually have lights. And then you will see that North Korea is completely 0.93

00:42:58.160 dark except for the Capitol where Kim Jong-un himself is. He is the only one with noticeable

00:43:03.120 electricity. This is a guy who has brutally murdered his own family members. Remember,

00:43:09.880 this is also a guy who sent back one of our own, Otto Warmbier, a 22 year old kid, deformed, 0.71

00:43:15.500 incapacitated, unable to see or speak, tortured to the brink of death, sent him back to his family to

00:43:21.140 die. A few days later, he murdered a citizen of the United States, someone who could have been any one

00:43:28.080 of our friends. And now Kim Jong-un is a good guy who loves his country. Now, I hear that the

00:43:34.560 Warmbiers released some really nice statement about it all, which great for them. Honestly,

00:43:39.180 God bless them and God be with them. But I cannot imagine that this is easy for them to watch if it's

00:43:45.300 not easy for me to watch. Kim Jong-un is evil. He is satanic. He is not a stitch nicer than Hitler. 0.94

00:43:52.800 If we were making a deal with Hitler or Stalin or Mao, would we call him a great guy? Would we say, 0.87

00:43:58.940 wow, not too many people could have accomplished what Mao has accomplished? That Stalin, he really

00:44:04.520 loves his country. Hitler sure loves his people. I have a special bond with Hitler now. No, no,

00:44:12.040 we wouldn't. When Neville Chamberlain of UK acquiesced to Germany and flattered Hitler through the

00:44:16.620 through the Munich Agreement in 1938. How did that go for everyone? Not that well. Germany got 0.79

00:44:22.700 Czechoslovakia, then invaded Poland a year later, leading the UK to declare war on Germany. You don't

00:44:29.440 appease terrorists. They're all the same. They're rats. You don't have to make them feel good about

00:44:34.160 themselves. Now, I'm not saying that this deal is exactly like Neville Chamberlain and Hitler. It's not.

00:44:40.420 It's more like Reagan and Gorbachev of the Soviet Union. But even though Reagan and Gorbachev did

00:44:45.880 eventually become friends, Reagan still call the Soviet Union the evil empire. Reagan still was

00:44:51.180 clear about his hatred of communism. And I understand that this is probably Trump flattering

00:44:56.600 him in order to make denuclearization more plausible. I mean, that's exactly what he's trying

00:45:01.360 to do. I understand that he's buttering him up to make sure he actually follows through on his end of

00:45:06.740 the deal. But in my opinion, it's just too much. I just don't think that America, the greatest

00:45:12.840 superpower in the world needs to kiss the you-know-what of a nation who we could literally

00:45:18.420 obliterate with one push of a button if we wanted to. Now, all this to say, I hope that this works.

00:45:26.200 I hope that I'm wrong. If by stroking the ego of Kim Jong-un, if by placing the American flag next to

00:45:32.520 the North Korean flag, denuclearization happens, if the egregious human rights violations stop,

00:45:38.240 if we can honestly keep North Korea in check and the people of North Korea are freed, then all of 0.95

00:45:45.860 this will be worth it. All of it. If liberation happens in North Korea, then I won't care about 0.95

00:45:50.820 any of this. And I will say, wow, all that stuff that I worried about and complained about was petty

00:45:55.340 nonsense. I just don't know if that's going to be the case, considering how many times they've

00:46:00.620 promised peace but have failed to fulfill that promise. So we will see. I would say that my

00:46:07.740 feelings are of cautious optimism, whereas it seems like a lot of conservatives are just

00:46:13.820 completely optimistic. And I just don't know if we have the logical or historical grounds to be that

00:46:19.400 optimistic. OK, one thing to say, actually, probably kind of a few things to say about the horrific and

00:46:26.060 very tragic suicides of Anthony Bourdain and Kate Spade. I am so sad for them, their families,

00:46:34.300 their kids, everyone who loves them. The trend of increasing suicides, especially in this country,

00:46:40.300 is really troubling. And there are all kinds of different explanations for it. And it's always

00:46:45.680 interesting as Christians to watch a non-Christian world grapple with questions that Christians have 0.61

00:46:51.040 had the answer to since Christ came to earth. I've heard people say that it's mental health. I've

00:46:55.660 heard people say that it's loneliness. It's copycat syndrome, where you hear someone who committed

00:47:00.540 suicide and you're kind of obsessed with it. And so you follow through yourself. I think all of these

00:47:06.780 things are part of it. I don't think they're completely misguided. I've even heard people say

00:47:11.860 that political correctness and victimhood have something to do with it. And on that one, I just don't

00:47:17.040 see the logical or scientific correlation personally. But regardless, ultimately, all of these

00:47:22.660 explanations are mostly grasping at straws. We know that the human heart is sick. It is desperately

00:47:28.620 wicked, the Bible says. There is a void in all of us that can only be filled by something bigger

00:47:34.820 than ourselves. There is a longing in all of us to be attached to a greater purpose, to have meaning

00:47:40.540 beyond making money, becoming famous, being successful at work. Loneliness is a part of it. Tragedy can cause

00:47:47.640 it. Purposelessness does play a major role, but the human heart will never be satisfied without

00:47:54.000 knowing the love of the one who made it. And that's Jesus. And as I've said before, I know there are

00:48:00.420 plenty of people who are not Christians who are not depressed or suicidal. And there are people who are

00:48:07.380 Christians who are depressed or suicidal. But if all of us, no matter what our religion is, find in 0.82

00:48:14.460 ourselves this longing for something bigger, something transcendent, this feeling of being

00:48:18.820 fully accepted, fully known, fully loved to play a part in the grand story of history, shouldn't that

00:48:25.180 tell us something? If we all have a longing for something greater, doesn't that point to the fact

00:48:32.000 that there is something greater? I mean, it's like that C.S. Lewis quote, if we find within ourselves a

00:48:37.420 longing for something beyond this world, that means that there is something beyond this world. And that's

00:48:41.540 a paraphrase. If there was nothing more than this life, then you would think that the people who

00:48:48.020 have gotten the most out of life, like Kate Spade and Anthony Bourdain, would be the happiest people

00:48:53.740 in the world. Why is it that the rich and famous are so consistently dissatisfied? Because they've

00:49:00.740 tasted all the world can offer and they still know it's not enough. They've gotten to the peak of life.

00:49:06.900 They've looked around and they've said, this is it. This is all we've got. And the answer we

00:49:13.780 Christians know is no, it's not it. That's the whole point of this life, that this life is not it. 1.00

00:49:21.160 The point is Jesus, the maker and satisfier of our souls, the only one who sees our innermost

00:49:26.220 beings and can set it free. Jesus is the only religious figure in all of history who instead

00:49:33.800 of saying, OK, here's how you get to God, he said, no, I am coming down to you. Do you know

00:49:42.100 any other faith in the world that's actually predicated on human weakness rather than human

00:49:47.480 strength that emphasizes what humans cannot do rather than what they can? Do you know another

00:49:53.040 religion whose most famous missionaries and adherents as written about in the Bible are

00:49:58.300 quite as messed up and as ragtag and as unexpected as ours are? Do you know another religion that 1.00

00:50:05.720 celebrates human frailty, that offers an eternal solution to everything the heart longs for,

00:50:11.820 that offers peace, purpose, fulfillment, community, healing, hope? Jesus is the cure for the sickness

00:50:18.080 of the soul. Jesus is the final answer to all of it. Now, this is not to say that we should reject

00:50:26.540 modern medicine. This is not to say that there are no practical solutions to depression, like being

00:50:32.280 more involved in your community, staying in touch with your family. But it is to say that ultimately

00:50:38.780 not a single one of us will ever be satisfied or saved without knowing Christ.

00:50:43.400 Okay. One final thing that doesn't have to do with any of this. This is just random, something I've

00:50:49.920 noticed and have been thinking about lately. This is a thing I just don't get, which like I said,

00:50:55.720 has been an ending section of my podcast in the past. But today it's actually just something that

00:51:02.420 annoys me that I think that we can all get better at, including myself. So there's this trend these

00:51:07.520 days, I think promulgated by celebrities and songs and just pop culture in general. And that's this

00:51:14.200 trend of blocking out the haters. It goes along with the trend of, you know, loving yourself and

00:51:19.540 being super self-confident. I think that's good to some degree. You can't listen to all the stupid

00:51:26.980 negativity that people throw your way, especially on the internet, or else you will just be in a puddle 1.00

00:51:32.760 of insecurity all day. I know that from firsthand experience. You can't. But I do worry that people

00:51:39.340 use this phrase and use this mentality as an excuse to silence legitimate criticism.

00:51:45.780 Newsflash. Not everyone who disagrees with you is a hater. And some criticism actually needs to be

00:51:52.280 listened to. So have discernment to know the difference between ignorant hate on the internet

00:51:57.580 and real actual feedback that you might need to take in, you might need to listen to,

00:52:01.800 might need to apply to your life. I also know firsthand that that is very difficult to do.

00:52:07.220 It is much easier and feels much better to say that anyone who criticizes me is just a hater and

00:52:13.020 just wants to see me fail. Sometimes that's not true. And to perpetually think that way is to stunt

00:52:18.620 your own growth. It's a sign, in my opinion, of immaturity and hardheadedness. It's kind of like how

00:52:25.600 a toddler treats everything that their parents say as preventing them from being happy. We shouldn't

00:52:32.340 think that way if we actually want to grow up and we want to get better at what we do, which we all

00:52:37.600 should want that. Okay, that is all for today. Love y'all so much. Thank you for listening every

00:52:43.520 week. It's just, it's a joy to do this podcast with you guys. And I love your feedback. As you guys

00:52:49.380 know, I'm taking a break from social media this week. So I apologize for my lack of Instagram

00:52:54.000 stories, but I will be back next week. I will also be at Turning Point USA's YWLS Young Women's

00:53:00.620 Leadership Summit this weekend. I'm speaking Saturday morning at 11 AM. So I really hope that you guys are

00:53:07.120 coming. Um, I'm so excited about it. Uh, follow me also on social media if you want, if you don't

00:53:13.120 totally cool, check out my videos on CRTV.com, email me feedback or any questions that you have.

00:53:19.300 Leave me, leave me a positive review if you want. Share this with your friends if you want.

00:53:23.820 Um, and I think that's it. Okay. Have a great week. Bye.

Relatable with Allie Beth Stuckey - June 13, 2018

Ep 14 ｜ Holy Sexuality with Dr. Christopher Yuan

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