Relatable with Allie Beth Stuckey - Ep 145

00:00:00.040 Hey guys, welcome to Relatable. Today I am talking to my friend Lauren Chen who is also a host at

00:00:06.560 Blaze TV with me. We're going to be talking about a whole host of things, specifically this disturbing

00:00:11.660 trend of sections of the left sexualizing kids and sexualizing young girls and what that looks

00:00:21.500 like from a mainstream media perspective and how we combat that as conservatives. I just want to

00:00:29.700 warn you that this might not be a conversation that you want your kids to listen into. So if you

00:00:34.400 are in the car with your kids, I would suggest maybe listening to this at a different time. Some

00:00:41.280 of the stuff that we're talking about unfortunately is disturbing, but it's very important. So I hope

00:00:45.920 that you guys enjoy the conversation. Lauren, thank you so much for joining me. No problem. Thank you

00:00:51.160 so much for having me. Big fan of your show. Oh, thanks. Well, first, will you tell everyone about

00:00:56.240 your show and where they can find it? Sure. I have a show called Pseudo Intellectual and yes,

00:01:02.720 I know what it means. That's the joke, everybody. Always get questions about the name. And I'm on

00:01:08.020 Blaze TV like you. We have a YouTube channel that's just under Lauren Chen. If you search that, you'll

00:01:13.360 be able to find every episode we do. Aside from that, if you're a Blaze TV subscriber, of course our

00:01:17.800 episodes are on the site. And we're also on Google Play, iTunes, and Spotify. I think that's

00:01:23.780 everywhere we are. Okay. First, how did you come up with the name Pseudo Intellectual? Because I never

00:01:28.300 thought to ask you about that. I thought that it kind of worked perfectly. I thought it was funny,

00:01:32.980 tongue in cheek. What kind of questions do you get about it? Exactly. So the name was actually,

00:01:37.620 we kind of, we rebranded with a new show with Blaze TV and the name was actually my fiance slash

00:01:42.900 producer's idea. Because I mean, as people who started out on YouTube in the whole commentary scene,

00:01:48.800 that's something you get a lot from people that you're just a pseudo intellectual. You know,

00:01:53.040 you're a nobody who like, what's your opinion matter? It's not like you're some big shot

00:01:57.440 journalist or politician and stuff like that. Right. And we just kind of leaned into that

00:02:02.600 perception of ourselves because it's like, you know what, you're right. We're, we are just some

00:02:07.040 people spouting off our opinions. We're not with the establishment media. We're not with establishment

00:02:13.020 politics or anything like that. And I don't think that's necessarily a bad thing. We're not a part of

00:02:17.840 academia. We're just, I think, regular people who care about these issues and want to talk about it.

00:02:22.580 So yeah, that, that was the kind of tongue in cheek approach we took to it. But then

00:02:26.260 sometimes we do get these people like, wait, are you calling yourself that? Don't you know,

00:02:30.320 it's not a good thing. And I say, don't worry. Like we're, we're, we're proud of it. I don't

00:02:34.060 think it necessarily needs to be a bad thing. And it's kind of like fat Amy from pitch perfect.

00:02:38.780 If we call ourselves that, then it kind of takes away any power that anyone else has to call us that.

00:02:43.680 Exactly. I never even thought twice about it. So it's funny that people had questions,

00:02:48.260 but one thing I think that people don't, don't think about is that the thing that gives credibility

00:02:54.240 is the fact that you have people listening to you. If you didn't have people listening to you,

00:03:00.220 then I think people would have maybe a right to question, well, why are you speaking into this void?

00:03:05.900 No one cares what you think, but people obviously care what you think. So why does it matter if we

00:03:10.200 have some kind of degree or title or background on Capitol Hill? If you have people that care

00:03:16.540 about your opinion, then your opinion is at least somewhat credible or worth listening to.

00:03:21.880 Yeah. And I feel like for a lot of people, that is a scary thing because they like having those

00:03:26.720 gatekeepers around, whether it's the establishment media or academia or politics who are there to tell

00:03:32.220 them what sort of the acceptable opinions are or are not. And now, so the idea that people can just

00:03:37.640 with social media, start their own platforms and get audiences that are as big as, if not bigger

00:03:43.840 than a lot of these establishment figures, that's, that's scary for a lot of people because I think

00:03:48.280 they, they feel as if they're losing control of the narrative, which quite frankly, they are.

00:03:52.560 Yeah. I think it scares a lot of people that are in the media. When we saw that whole debacle with

00:03:57.920 Steven Crowder, there were some people that were saying, okay, this isn't really a right versus left

00:04:03.020 thing. This is traditional media versus YouTube or versus non-traditional media. They don't like

00:04:10.100 to lose control. They don't like that someone like you or someone like Steven Crowder has arguably

00:04:15.820 a bigger influence on at least a section of public opinion than they do. And they want so badly to be

00:04:24.060 able to navigate that the way they want it to go. And it frustrates them, I think, to no end

00:04:29.460 that there are people that subscribe to your channel and aren't listening to what they're

00:04:34.780 saying. No, for sure. And it's, I think it's a losing battle for them, quite frankly, because if

00:04:40.040 we look at, break it down by age demographic and look at where people get not just their news,

00:04:44.640 but their entertainment in general, independent media is growing and there's really nothing they

00:04:48.460 can do to stop it. So like with the whole Vox thing, I think they kind of found out that when you

00:04:53.540 go after the YouTube ecosystem, which is so fragile, you're not just making, I guess, independent

00:04:59.340 right-wing commentary creators angry. You're kind of, you're bringing the whole YouTube community in

00:05:04.920 this because there are so many creators, like gamers, makeup channels or whatever that are all

00:05:09.260 affected by this. So the bottom line is, is that people like you who have been a popular YouTuber for

00:05:14.720 a long time, you have extreme sway, at least on one section of the internet. And a lot of people

00:05:21.960 don't like that. But I think what we've seen is that the ridiculousness that's coming from some of

00:05:27.160 the mainstream outlets in the media, they, they create the necessity for people like you, for people

00:05:34.620 like me to give a voice to those who look at some of those narratives and say, oh my gosh, this doesn't

00:05:41.660 relate to me at all. This doesn't reflect what I think. And one of the most ridiculous things that

00:05:45.240 I've seen that I think that we both are probably appalled by, uh, is this whole narrative that we're

00:05:50.400 seeing, especially from outlets like Teen Vogue saying, you know, sex work is real work. If you are

00:05:56.660 young, 12, 13, 14 years old, and you're thinking about certain types of sex, that's totally fine.

00:06:02.280 We're going to be here to be your guide to all of these things. It's just the sexualization of young

00:06:08.060 people and young girls that most people are taken aback by. And I think you and me, especially,

00:06:14.900 uh, we have something to say about that. What's it, what's your opinion on it?

00:06:18.620 Well, I think, I, I mean, I have a lot to say about what Teen Vogue is doing. I mean, first off,

00:06:24.380 um, obviously with opinions like, you know, sex work is real work, yada, yada, yada. Of course,

00:06:29.580 I'm going to want to push back on that. But I think what kind of sets them apart from any other

00:06:34.540 left-wing, hyper-sexualized magazine is the fact that they are actually aimed at teens,

00:06:40.680 right? Yeah, that's true. This is Teen Vogue, not regular Vogue. So not only do I disagree

00:06:44.740 with their opinion, but I also am just morally outraged, is the best way I can think of putting

00:06:51.540 it, that they're trying to market this to children. Um, and I know it's kind of a meme now,

00:06:57.200 oh, won't someone please think of the children? But, I mean, actually, I think as a society,

00:07:02.460 we've kind of maybe stopped paying attention to what these outlets, and it's not just Teen Vogue,

00:07:10.000 it's places like MTV or whatever it is, are feeding, um, young people. And look, I'm for

00:07:16.000 freedom of speech. I think that's important. Um, but I think as parents and as a society,

00:07:20.680 we need to have this conversation because it's just, it's not okay to expose young people to

00:07:27.020 these ideas that they, I think, are maybe not emotionally or mentally or perhaps even physically

00:07:32.980 capable of dealing with, um, and expect them to come out as well-adjusted adults. I think we are

00:07:38.960 failing these children by, uh, saying, yeah, whatever, whatever you want to read, just have at it.

00:07:44.000 Internet is a big, dark void, but just go for it. Whatever you want to explore, that's fine,

00:07:49.760 and not really giving them any guidance. So, why do you think magazines like Teen Vogue have gotten

00:07:55.760 the idea that this is where society is, and this is where society needs to go? Because I think even

00:08:00.860 people that lean to the left look at something like this, and they're like, eh, this is a bit too far.

00:08:06.540 Yeah, I think you're right. And, um, you know, on YouTube, I have an audience that leans mainly

00:08:10.840 right, but it's definitely not exclusively right-wing. And I made a video about Teen Vogue, and I had a ton

00:08:16.180 of people saying, look, I'm, I think sex positive is the word that a lot of progressives use, um, but

00:08:22.280 I'm still not okay with this being taught to children. And I think that can kind of be a

00:08:26.980 unifying factor across the political spectrum, is that whatever you want to do in your bedroom,

00:08:31.580 what, like, that's one thing, but when we're talking about sharing it with kids, it begins,

00:08:36.040 it begins to be a different issue. And I think when I've, when I've looked at the, I guess,

00:08:40.500 the author profiles of the, the women who have written all of these articles, what I see is that

00:08:45.140 they're all, um, very, very far left-leaning progressive feminists. And I think they come

00:08:51.320 from an ideology where, uh, you know, sexuality is just like this open thing that's all good

00:08:57.140 all the time. There's, I mean, you know, as, as a Christian, we can appreciate that sexuality

00:09:01.560 within the marriage is, is, is important. Um, but I think they kind of come from the approach that,

00:09:07.320 hey, you know, if it's there, use it at will. And I think that maybe that mentality has actually

00:09:12.440 gotten them to a point where they don't understand the fact that there is something to be said for

00:09:17.100 an issue being for adults versus children, right? It's become so normalized to them where even the

00:09:22.360 idea of an age barrier doesn't make sense anymore. I guess that's true. When you think about where

00:09:28.880 they get their moral compass or where they derive their values, it's really this whole mentality of

00:09:34.920 the God of self. And if the only God that you have, or the only moral arbiter that you have is

00:09:40.580 yourself, then I guess it does kind of stop making sense to have these, what seem like maybe to you,

00:09:47.960 these arbitrary boundaries of age. And so if all that matters is autonomy, if all that matters is

00:09:54.940 authenticity, if all that matters, if the only standard for right and wrong within sexuality is

00:10:00.640 consent, then it does, it does become more difficult to make a moral case from their perspective

00:10:08.200 that, okay, children shouldn't be involved in that. So how do we, because you're right, we're coming

00:10:14.760 from two totally different fundamental perspectives on right and wrong. How do you reconcile that? How do

00:10:21.880 you have a conversation with someone who is so far the other direction and just refuses to even see the

00:10:28.400 world the same way you do about something like this? That is, that is something that is very hard to do,

00:10:34.860 frankly. And yeah, I've encountered people who support this kind of thing being shared with kids

00:10:40.780 on social media and in the comment section. And the approach that they often take is just that

00:10:46.740 you're a prude, you hate sex, you're an authoritarian, you're trying to tell people what to do and what not

00:10:52.620 to do. And I think it's, they've, they've kind of conditioned themselves to see sex the same way some

00:10:59.900 people might see, I don't know, watching TV, like it's very hard for them to like sex is fun, how could

00:11:05.180 it be a bad thing? I think the best thing we can do is show them studies, because this, this actually

00:11:10.860 is something that, you know, science and secularism and research support, that promiscuity is not just

00:11:17.480 this, this neutral factor that doesn't have any influence on our lives. Like we see that there are

00:11:22.420 actual things like STIs, you know, teen pregnancies, people who are promiscuous tend to report things

00:11:29.580 like higher incidences of, I guess, like low self-esteem, maybe even depression and anxiety,

00:11:35.480 like these actions have measurable consequences on people's lives. And so like, this is for adults

00:11:41.800 we're talking about, you can only imagine how any, any negativities might be compounded if we introduce

00:11:46.900 them like this behavior to children. This, this is an issue that unfortunately has become

00:11:53.060 like politicized. It's seen now, if you speak out against this, then you're probably somehow like a

00:11:58.800 sexist, some right-wing extremist, which is too bad because I think at the end of the day, if we're,

00:12:03.940 if we're talking about kids, we should all have the children's best interests at heart. And I think a lot

00:12:08.880 of the people pushing these articles about, you know, how to get an abortion without your parents

00:12:14.080 knowing, um, you know, how to prepare for anal sex. These are actual articles that were in Teen Vogue

00:12:18.980 and I feel bad, like even, even saying that kind of thing. And I don't mean to bring smut onto your

00:12:23.500 podcast, but keep in mind as uncomfortable as it makes us, this is what's being fed to children. Um,

00:12:29.740 yeah, they, they, they just want it to be so normalized. I don't know if it's because they

00:12:33.240 are trying to, I guess, rationalize their own behavior, but it is, it is, I admit, hard to talk to those

00:12:39.060 people. I think that you're right, that they separate the emotional consequences or the,

00:12:46.460 the emotions that are involved with sex. Even as we know, the spiritual aspect of sex,

00:12:52.440 they want to deny that that exists and just say, well, you know, it's no different than doing

00:12:58.180 anything else, any other physical act. It's exactly the same. And so from that kind of construct,

00:13:04.840 it would be more difficult to argue, well, maybe kids shouldn't really learn about this because if

00:13:11.120 you really think of it as just something casual, like having a meal or something like that, rather

00:13:16.940 than an intimate act that you share within marriage as we believe, or at least between, um, with someone

00:13:23.580 that you love, then it becomes this thing. That's just like, well, yeah, sure. Why shouldn't we talk

00:13:30.940 about it? Why shouldn't kids know about it? Why shouldn't kids know how to get an abortion?

00:13:35.980 It's all just part of life. But like you said, to our children's detriment. So I just wonder,

00:13:42.580 as someone who is about to have a child myself, as we're recording this, I just wonder, am I going to

00:13:48.160 have to kind of like take my child basically out of the world? I mean, I cannot trust Snapchat.

00:13:54.160 I certainly can't trust these magazines. I feel like I can't trust most of the celebrities that are

00:13:58.780 going to be influencing her. I can't trust television. It scares me for the future. And I

00:14:04.340 know that you don't have kids, but you're engaged. Is that something that you think about?

00:14:08.440 Absolutely. My fiance and I have discussions about this all the time. Um, because we like politically,

00:14:14.720 we're not exactly aligned on every single issue, but I think in terms of how we, um, view the

00:14:20.200 importance of marriage and family and raising our kids, we are a hundred percent on the same page.

00:14:24.840 And it's, it's very scary for both of us. Like we're, we're at the point now where we're trying

00:14:29.840 to figure out, okay, how can we make homeschool work even just because we see and we report on

00:14:35.240 these stories of things like the gender unicorn being taught to five-year-olds, sex ed, you know,

00:14:40.960 it's, it's getting younger and younger. They're trying to introduce these ideas to kids. Um, as a parent,

00:14:46.100 I don't know how you can look at something like what, what's happening with Teen Vogue and not be

00:14:51.500 worried. And I don't want to be like alarmist or anything like that, needlessly scare people.

00:14:57.660 But I just think you cannot be too vigilant when it comes to this kind of thing. And I do think that,

00:15:02.940 you know, if you do a good job instilling good values into your kid, uh, when they're younger,

00:15:07.760 then hopefully as they get older, even though the temptations are there and all of this material is

00:15:14.320 available to them, they will have the moral compass to say, you know what, this isn't how I was raised

00:15:19.340 and I don't want to be a part of this. Uh, because, because, you know, when hopefully by the time

00:15:24.060 they're 14 or 15, they're, they're able to make those kinds of decisions. It's just, I feel like

00:15:29.060 it has become a lot harder to raise kids, especially in a Christian household or lifestyle nowadays than

00:15:34.960 it used to be just because you're, you're kind of, you're being assaulted from, it seems like

00:15:40.000 everywhere with all of these messages that sex is good, sex everywhere, abortion, no problem.

00:15:45.560 It becomes hard to say, okay, what is safe for kids to watch? Like what is child appropriate

00:15:50.620 nowadays? Yeah. Um, two things. What's a gender unicorn? That's my first question. I don't know.

00:15:59.420 Um, a gender unicorn is something that they were found to be teaching in Canadian. I don't want to,

00:16:06.440 I forget the exact grade, but it was young. It was definitely elementary school and it was before

00:16:11.440 grade four. I remember that. Um, and it was the, their way of trying to introduce kids to the concept

00:16:17.580 of gender fluidity and different sexual orientations. Um, so like the gender unicorn could kind of be

00:16:25.080 whatever you want it to, wanted it to be. And depending on what other genders it was attracted

00:16:29.320 to, it changed its description. And it's funny because now the gender unicorn, not funny, sad. Now the

00:16:35.020 gender unicorn was actually found to be, um, transphobic because it relied on the idea that

00:16:40.500 biological sex is real, which of course we know is just craziness now. So now there's actually

00:16:45.660 the, some people are proposing the gender elephant, which is more inclusive because it sees biological

00:16:51.120 sex as a spectrum. And it's just, yeah. Stories like this are why we talk so much about homeschool

00:16:58.300 my fiance and I, because we're just, we're terrified. And look, I don't want to raise my kid up in,

00:17:03.300 in, in a bubble by any means. I don't want to shield them from different ideas or indoctrinate

00:17:08.640 them with my own beliefs, uh, you know, on the other end of that, but it's just, I don't want

00:17:13.340 my, you know, my 12 year old girls are reading about how to get abortions without my consent.

00:17:18.060 And if that makes me, uh, you know, some sort of like crazy right-wing extremist, then I have

00:17:22.960 a lot of worries for the future of our society. Totally. And something, I know that you guys live

00:17:28.520 in Canada, but we have, I know that, you know, about the Equality Act, something that scares me,

00:17:34.180 even though, you know, we're totally on the same page with you guys. We've talked about that.

00:17:37.740 We obviously talk about Christian schooling and just all of the ways that we can protect

00:17:41.560 our child's mind as they're growing up, but you read something like the Equality Act and

00:17:45.900 you see the trajectory and the desire of many people, not all, but many people, it seems like

00:17:51.880 on the left, they really want to encroach upon a parent's rights to raise their child, how

00:17:58.720 the parent sees fit. Because for example, like I think this happened in Canada, like a dad was

00:18:04.360 charged for not calling his daughter by her preferred gender pronoun. We see the same

00:18:09.780 thing in the UK. You see that in parts of the Equality Act that, um, really a child should

00:18:15.960 be able to make autonomous decisions about sexuality and gender from a young age. Parents shouldn't

00:18:21.260 be able to interfere. We see the same thing, uh, with them trying to have some kind of control

00:18:26.760 over Christian schools and what Christian schools can teach and who they can hire, who they can't

00:18:32.100 hire, no matter their motivations. And it just worries you. Am I even going to have freedom

00:18:37.320 as a mom to be able to teach my child the things that I want to teach my child? And I don't mean to,

00:18:44.460 you know, be it, you know, say that the world is ending and that everything is going to be terrible

00:18:50.200 because I do think that there's hope. There's a lot of people like you and me who feel this way

00:18:54.000 and who are going to push back against that. But it is, I don't know, it is scary to think about.

00:19:00.740 And I just, I just wonder how long we're going to be able to hold on. I, you know, I, I feel the

00:19:05.380 same way. I don't want to scare people, but at the same time, I want them to understand sort of how

00:19:09.980 serious this is and the fact that this is happening. Look, uh, I've been making videos about

00:19:15.020 these issues for around three years. And I, I think the first time I talked about the issue of,

00:19:19.560 of gender and sort of sexualizing or the attempt to sexualize kids, uh, I had people saying,

00:19:26.080 why are you focusing on this? This is just a few crazy people on Tumblr. Let's talk about the real

00:19:30.560 issues. Well, three years later, you're absolutely right. There, there are parents who are being

00:19:35.060 charged for not using their child's preferred pronouns. We've even seen cases taken to court where

00:19:40.720 a, a parent is, is getting in trouble because they do not want their underage child going on hormones,

00:19:46.280 to change, to change their gender and things like that. It's like, we were complacent, I think,

00:19:52.080 for far too long about this sort of thing. And we've let it get too far as a society. So I do think

00:19:57.240 we need to take a really hard stand now and say, uh, this is not acceptable. And it's funny because

00:20:02.200 anytime, um, I, I talk about anything to do with Christianity, I always get a bunch of leftists,

00:20:08.440 um, or like fedora tipping atheists saying, you're just trying to indoctrinate kids, blah, blah,

00:20:14.360 blah, blah, blah, blah. And it's like, look, the Christians now aren't the ones who are imposing

00:20:17.940 their ideology on the government and trying to make sure everyone lives by our moral code,

00:20:22.880 right? That that's, that's not what's happening nowadays, but that is exactly what the far left

00:20:28.020 and feminists are doing. And it's funny because, you know, if a Christian were to try anything

00:20:33.680 remotely like this, then there, there would be protests in the streets, people dressing up as

00:20:37.560 like the handmaids from, from that TV show. But if, if, if the, the far left manages to shoehorn

00:20:43.820 their ideology into law, like all of a sudden now, Oh no, this is good. This is equality. It's like,

00:20:48.080 wow, we, I think we really need to take a step back and kind of get back to reality. Because I,

00:20:53.840 I do think if you were to talk to the average everyday person, they wouldn't support this.

00:20:58.180 They don't believe that this is the best thing for society or for children. But unfortunately,

00:21:02.780 a lot of people I think don't know this is happening. And the people who support this,

00:21:07.560 this, these kinds of measures, like they've done a very good job inserting themselves into positions

00:21:11.960 of authority, where even if this isn't something that people want or support, they're able to,

00:21:16.500 because of their positions and because of their full-time activism, get these measures implemented.

00:21:22.220 And one of their techniques, one of their strategies, I think is doing what you have been told

00:21:28.240 since you started talking about this is you're an extremist. You are exaggerating this, gosh,

00:21:35.140 calm down as Taylor Swift would say in a different context, just calm down about all of this.

00:21:42.140 And that's why I think some people, especially those who aren't in the public eye would say,

00:21:47.760 okay, you're right. Like, I don't want to be crazy. I don't want to be a conspiracy theorist. Like,

00:21:52.460 I don't want to be one of those weird, crazy Christians that talks about things that aren't really

00:21:56.900 happening. And they're convinced that you don't really need to worry about this until like you

00:22:03.040 said, it's too late. So I think that your message is spot on that. Yes, we do need to be worrying

00:22:07.940 about this because where this leads, as people have talked about many times is to the normalization

00:22:13.300 of pedophilia, which is something that we already see. We already see people calling, uh, for the

00:22:19.800 decriminalization of child porn, the decriminalization of, um, of pedophilia. And I think that if you are a

00:22:26.800 parent, you have every right to be worried about that, don't you think? Oh, for sure. And as someone

00:22:32.280 who's for a long time been keeping an eye on this, but the whole cultural, cultural issues, uh, but not

00:22:37.860 necessarily weighing in until recently, people make fun of the idea of a slippery slope, but I think

00:22:43.620 that's exactly what we've been seeing. I mean, it used to be that marriage was, you know, reserved,

00:22:48.940 uh, between man and wife. And then there was a sexual revolution and we kind of saw like, okay,

00:22:54.300 now people are a little bit more open with the fact that they're having sex outside of marriage.

00:22:58.520 And we kind of saw this, um, I guess, slow, but general decrease in the value of sex. Um,

00:23:06.860 and within the past, I would say two decades, like the speed at which things are getting worse is,

00:23:11.740 it's just increased so rapidly. Um, you know, now we see that not only is like sex, okay, you can have

00:23:17.020 it anywhere. Now we actually have hookup culture where it's not just for serious relationships. Now it's

00:23:21.500 just for strangers. And I think, unfortunately, if we look at the whole LGBT movement, um, we do see

00:23:26.940 that there are attempts to, uh, bring in pedophilia into the fold and to normalize what's, they, they

00:23:33.100 now try to call it minor attracted persons, uh, because apparently the pedophile label has too much

00:23:38.480 baggage. So they're trying to rebrand. Um, we saw people in the mainstream media doing articles on

00:23:45.280 virtuous pedophiles who would never, ever dream of actually harming a kid. It's just like this

00:23:50.640 condition that they live with and they're open about it and they don't think we should,

00:23:54.040 they should be demonized. Um, I, I, we did a video about that. I was called an extremist,

00:23:59.980 an alarmist and all of these things. Fast forward a year and now we have child drag queens performing

00:24:05.180 at gay bars with men giving them money. Like this, this is real. This is happening. This is why I think

00:24:10.900 it's important that we talk about it and use real life examples because this isn't some like crazy

00:24:15.200 conspiracy theory that we're just pulling out of thin air. This is what we see. And actually,

00:24:20.340 uh, we just did a show not too long ago where we were talking about the idea of people bringing

00:24:24.680 kids to pride parades. And it's like, look, if you want to, as an adult, go to a gay pride parade,

00:24:29.020 that's one thing, but there's, there's nudity, there's like BDSM displays and all of these kinds of

00:24:34.700 things that I don't even feel comfortable looking at. And to bring a kid there and people are

00:24:38.600 actually saying like, yeah, it's a good thing for the kid. Not only is it okay, but they should be

00:24:42.440 brought to see these displays. And it's, I, uh, it, it, it gets me really angry because it feels like

00:24:49.200 honestly, it does feel like a losing battle sometimes. Totally. I've seen videos. I mean,

00:24:54.400 I've seen videos of kids dancing and adults surrounding the kids. So it's not just,

00:24:59.420 it's a lie to say that these kids are even just going as observers, which I agree with you

00:25:03.540 never in a million years. Do I think that that's appropriate, but it's not just that it's that

00:25:08.340 they want kids. Some, I won't say everyone, of course, but some want kids to be participants

00:25:13.480 in this parade. They want them to even be the center of attention, um, at these kinds of things

00:25:19.260 because they say, Oh, it's cute. It's free. But again, when the God is self and when your only

00:25:25.160 values are autonomy and authenticity, it becomes really logically and morally difficult, I think,

00:25:32.540 to make the case that kids shouldn't be involved in this. And I know people say, whenever I,

00:25:37.560 you know, bring this up, Oh no, that's not the solution. God's not the solution.

00:25:41.320 Scripture's not the solution. It's just common sense. But look, this is what happens. And C.S.

00:25:46.980 Lewis makes this point, of course, in a totally different context in mere Christianity.

00:25:50.540 When you decide there is no moral lawgiver, there is no supreme authority that says what right and

00:25:56.620 wrong is, what good and bad is, what we should or shouldn't do. When you get rid of that idea,

00:26:02.140 then everything is permissible. Um, I think there is actually a quote that says,

00:26:05.980 if God doesn't exist, everything is permissible. And that's absolutely true. And we can try to

00:26:10.240 rationalize all we want. No, no, no. It has nothing to do with God. But I haven't heard a good

00:26:14.740 argument for someone to say, Oh yeah, good and bad exist. Even if God doesn't, why, how? So I

00:26:22.280 personally think this is the secularization of society. This is what happens when we all become

00:26:27.620 our own gods. When we all have my truth and your truth, no truth exists. There becomes no standard

00:26:34.360 whatsoever from which we can argue that pedophilia is wrong.

00:26:38.620 And you're so right. And you know, I, I have friends and family members who are atheists and

00:26:44.020 I love them. But I think, you know, realistically, if we look at what the push for secularism has

00:26:50.900 brought upon society, it is really hard to not see the connections happening between, you know,

00:26:56.020 an increase of people leaving Christianity and the prevalence of things like this. And I've,

00:27:01.240 I've had conversations with atheists who insist that, you know, they could still have the same

00:27:06.260 moral standing and moral surety as a Christian would without the concept of God. But I think

00:27:12.280 when you try to push them on that, all right, do you think, for example, let's say pedophilia is

00:27:18.860 wrong? Like, yes. Okay. Why? You know, you try to get them to rationalize. It's the why. Yeah. Where,

00:27:24.500 where would this sense of objective wrong come from? Right. Frankly, it's not there. And I think a lot of

00:27:30.400 atheists who say that they can still be moral without Christianity, they're still very much,

00:27:35.280 even though they don't believe in God, relying on, on Christian thinking and morality in order to kind

00:27:42.200 of live a lot of their life or make a lot of moral decisions. They just don't realize it. So I think

00:27:48.560 the people who are just kind of upfront and outright saying like, yeah, kids at pride parade,

00:27:54.120 pedophilia is just another sexual orientation. Um, they are unfortunately living the secularist

00:28:00.760 ideology to its fullest extent. Um, this is where the road leads us, unfortunately. Um, and I, I have

00:28:09.400 spoken to people, um, to different commentators who are under the impression or they're, they're hoping

00:28:14.160 that the people, these atheists who, who say that they don't need God to have morals, that the more

00:28:20.060 that they look at what the secularism gets society, perhaps they may be inclined to re-examine that

00:28:26.360 belief and turn back to God. Um, I actually, I have seen that with a couple people myself. I don't

00:28:32.720 know if it's happening enough to call it anything close to a revival, but that is my hope right now

00:28:38.820 because I don't know how else we can correct ourselves as a society. Totally. And a lot of people,

00:28:43.940 when they hear this portion of the conversation, they just automatically comment separation of church

00:28:47.760 and state, which I think is a concept. We know it's not in the constitution, but it's a concept.

00:28:52.720 It's a doctrine that we both agree with. Of course, we don't believe that the state should

00:28:56.300 establish a church. We don't believe that we, that the state should compel religion, but something I

00:29:01.780 heard someone say that I thought was very profound and correct is separation of church and state.

00:29:07.440 The prohibition from the state actually establishing a particular church is not the same thing as the

00:29:13.320 separation of God and morality or the separation of God in law. Because again, if you don't believe

00:29:19.280 that there is a source of morality, if there's a transcendent source of truth that is bigger than

00:29:23.920 a man-made government, then you really have no place to say what should be illegal and what shouldn't

00:29:29.560 be illegal outside of maybe harm, I guess, physical harm towards another person. You have no place to say

00:29:35.220 what is right and what is wrong. So I want people to know that as we're talking about this,

00:29:39.700 I'm not talking about the state compelling people to be Christians or compelling people

00:29:44.840 to believe in a certain way, but I am saying that, okay, if we have had a biblical foundation

00:29:50.940 for laws that have led to human flourishing for a long time, then maybe, maybe just taking a lesson

00:29:59.320 from your postmodern studies professor from 2016 that you think is incredibly new and woke,

00:30:04.820 maybe that's not necessarily the direction to go because it doesn't seem to be helping us very much.

00:30:09.400 No, for sure. And I think if you look at actually the history of the constitution and the concept of

00:30:16.640 separation between church and state, you'll find it was actually talked about originally to protect

00:30:20.420 the church from state interference, not the other way around. And the founding fathers were also,

00:30:25.980 I think, very clear that a small government works when you have a godly people, right? People who

00:30:31.840 fear God and who are trying to live by his commandments. Dennis Prager says it all the time,

00:30:37.400 if you want small government, you have to have big God. And I think the way that the American

00:30:42.280 constitution was written, it was under the assumption that people would have this sort of

00:30:47.040 Christian morality guiding their everyday lives, and which is why it was successful. So, you know,

00:30:53.140 I don't want a theocracy either. It's weird that we have to like mention that nowadays. But yeah,

00:30:58.980 we'll say don't want a theocracy. But at the same time, like there are people now who anytime you

00:31:04.680 mention something like abortion will automatically say something like, oh, separation of church and

00:31:09.960 of church and state. And it's like, well, I mean, is do we need to have a theocracy to say murder is

00:31:16.940 bad? Like, is that what your argument is? It confuses me, frankly. And also the idea that we can't

00:31:23.660 legislate morality if we're looking at the idea of, you know, a completely secular government that has,

00:31:30.620 I guess, no moral foundation, then why are things like incest illegal? These are questions that are

00:31:36.260 hard for someone who is fully committed to secularism to answer, frankly.

00:31:41.120 And all legislation has a piece of morality in it. That doesn't mean that we legislate every part of

00:31:47.480 someone's moral life. Right. But every legislation does speak to something moral, because even if your

00:31:54.620 standard for what should be a law and what shouldn't be is harm is like, OK, I believe only things that

00:32:00.960 should be illegal or something that harms someone else, you still have to account for why. Why? Why

00:32:06.220 is harming someone else who maybe doesn't matter to society or whatever? Why is that a moral standard?

00:32:11.740 So there's always going to be a section of morale or a part of every piece of legislation that is

00:32:18.400 inherently moral, which is why I think, like you said, it's dishonest for people to say this has

00:32:23.540 nothing to do with morality. This has nothing to do with God whatsoever. Actually, it has a lot to do

00:32:29.780 with both of those things. But it makes sense because, like you said, the founding fathers knew

00:32:34.540 that there had to be some kind of belief in God or a higher power that constrained people and allowed

00:32:41.820 them to self-govern. I mean, that was the whole point of the American experiment is this crazy idea

00:32:47.140 of self-governance that we didn't have to look to the government to tell us, you know, every which way to

00:32:52.680 live our lives, but that we actually were beholden to a higher power than the government. That's what

00:32:57.640 it means to have inherent rights, to have personal responsibility and all of these things. But it

00:33:02.400 makes sense because the left doesn't believe that. The left actually does believe that the government

00:33:06.540 should be our moral arbiter. The left actually does believe that the government should be our

00:33:10.700 caretaker, our provider, and all of these things. And they don't believe in self-governance at all,

00:33:15.480 which is why I always say it's really difficult to be a conservative

00:33:19.080 and be an atheist at the same time. That's my personal opinion.

00:33:23.800 No, I would agree too. And actually, it's funny, like I've kind of alluded to, I have some

00:33:29.320 conservative channels that I follow on YouTube who started out as atheists, but the more they

00:33:33.520 sort of explore their own beliefs and I guess the general foundation of things like small

00:33:38.400 government and Christianity, the more that they came to see that they really go hand in hand.

00:33:42.560 And actually, the whole idea about the left not understanding maybe a difference between

00:33:48.940 personal morality and government fiat, that is so completely true. And I don't know if you found

00:33:55.000 this, but I found that anytime I make any sort of commentary about something that is or is not a

00:34:00.840 moral, making a judgment there, I agree with this decision or I disagree with it, I always get people

00:34:05.320 saying, well, they should have the right to do it. And it's like, I'm not talking about the right to do

00:34:10.200 it. I'm talking about whether it should be done. But for some people, that concept is really,

00:34:15.160 really hard between what should be socially permissible and what should be illegal. Because

00:34:19.740 I think for a lot of people, like they've lost a personal sense of moral responsibility and we've

00:34:24.460 become more reliant on what the government tells us we can or cannot do. And the example I always

00:34:30.080 bring up to explain this difference to people is the concept of adultery or infidelity, especially

00:34:36.280 within a marriage. I think it is absolutely morally repugnant and unbiblical to cheat on

00:34:42.780 your spouse. But at the same time, I don't think it should be illegal. I think it should

00:34:46.980 be morally stigmatized and socially stigmatized as much as possible. But I don't think it should

00:34:52.980 land someone in jail. That concept between something being morally and socially wrong and

00:34:59.200 taboo, but not illegal, that's something we're losing as society as I think we've almost at this

00:35:04.480 point gotten rid of any concept of like, I don't know if it's shame or moral responsibility that we

00:35:10.040 used to have. But I feel like our self-control is gone. Yeah. I wonder too, because I couldn't agree

00:35:17.060 more with everything you just said. I just wonder too, like where all of this came from. Because if

00:35:21.680 you look at various studies, and this is the last question that will wrap up. If you look at the

00:35:27.540 various studies that just show how far left our country is gone or America has gone and how far left

00:35:33.520 the left in America has gone, it's very dramatic. And the majority of that, even though it's been

00:35:38.260 happening for probably a couple decades, the majority of that really happened over the past

00:35:43.360 10 years, specifically when Barack Obama was president. If you look at views on race, if you

00:35:48.320 look at views on welfare and socialism, on immigration, on healthcare, people got way more left during that

00:35:55.280 time. And what also happened, I was looking at this really interesting thread of someone who

00:36:01.200 found, I don't know how exactly they made these graphs, but they looked at the frequency with which

00:36:07.260 the media used particular terms from like, you know, 1970 to 2019. So terms like privilege, terms like,

00:36:15.660 you know, white privilege, bigotry, reparations, all of these very woke terms that it seems like we're

00:36:22.600 just now hearing about. And the reality is, is that yes, we are just now using these words,

00:36:27.100 intersectionality, you know, gender fluid, all of these things have only been used in the media

00:36:33.420 really since like 2010. And we're acting like, okay, this is the new way we need to go. This is

00:36:40.700 the, these are the new established rules when all of this really just came to be like 10 years ago.

00:36:47.220 So I don't know if you have any insight into how the heck we got to this place that seems like we've

00:36:54.080 really never been before. Well, I think you're, you're right that we have never been before. And

00:36:58.500 I've wondered that too. Sometimes am I just, because I'm so like plugged into things like Twitter and

00:37:04.080 like what the left is doing, am I making this out to be worse than it is? Um, actually, no,

00:37:09.060 they've done studies about, they've kind of tracked people's average positions on different political,

00:37:13.460 um, issues. And we can see that, like you said, the left has gotten dramatically more far left.

00:37:19.460 Whereas it's interesting. If you look at the right, we've stayed pretty, pretty constant,

00:37:24.760 pretty consistent. Someone who identifies as right now, uh, probably has most of their beliefs in

00:37:30.160 common with someone who identified as right 30, 40 years ago. The same is not the true for the left.

00:37:35.120 They really have gone off the rails. And I think it's, um, if you look at the institutions that the

00:37:40.320 left has control of and not just the general left, but the progressive left places like Hollywood,

00:37:44.640 our media, you know, our news, it's something like 90% of journalists identify as left-wing or

00:37:50.800 Democrat. If we look at the school systems, um, unfortunately, any place that has any cultural

00:37:57.340 power, institutional power, the left has taken control of, right? So if you're a kid who grew up

00:38:03.940 in, in the nineties, uh, like I did, you've, you've grown up going to school, being taught by leftists,

00:38:10.740 watching TV shows that push a leftist message. Um, when you got a little bit older and started

00:38:16.020 watching the news, you were watching news anchors who pretended that they were on biased journalists,

00:38:20.500 but were in fact leftists. And then you went to college to be taught by more leftists. It's not

00:38:24.900 really any wonder, um, that things have gone as far left as they have, because these people have been

00:38:30.980 allowed to operate these spheres of influence without any pushback. Um, hopefully with the advent and

00:38:38.220 kind of growth of independent media, we can kind of start to push back a little bit on that just

00:38:44.280 homogenous control they've had. But I would say that that's probably what's, what's responsible

00:38:50.380 for it. It's not like we, as a society, all of a sudden agreed that left-wing principles were the

00:38:54.980 correct ones, because that absolutely didn't happen. They just kind of, um, inserted themselves

00:38:59.560 into roles of power. And I think right-wing people, by virtue of us, like maybe being a little bit

00:39:05.420 distrustful of government or relying more on things like personal entrepreneurialism, we,

00:39:10.020 entrepreneurialism, we are less likely to go into things like, uh, media and academia. Unfortunately,

00:39:15.680 it's meant that the left has just free reign over all of those places.

00:39:19.420 Yeah. And the censorship and the difficulty that just comes along with being someone being on the

00:39:27.060 conservative side when you are in the mainstream media, unless you work for a, you know, a place like

00:39:32.080 Fox news or being in academia, if you are that sole conservative voice, I think it's really

00:39:37.260 difficult. If you're that, I get messages all the time from public school teachers that are like,

00:39:41.580 you know, I'm a Christian, I'm a conservative, but I feel like I can't say anything because I'm going

00:39:46.680 to get in trouble or parents of students are going to get mad at me. And so they might exist in there,

00:39:52.060 but you know, understandably they're like, well, I need to keep my job. Like I can't risk my family's

00:39:58.660 well-being by speaking out about the things that I believe in. So I think, I think that's scary,

00:40:03.840 but I do want to try to end on like, if we can a positive and hopeful note. So if you have any,

00:40:10.020 just, I don't know, words of encouragement and motivation for it, there's a lot of young moms

00:40:14.140 that listen to this podcast, but also college students, like if you have any words of encouragement

00:40:18.800 and optimism or maybe not optimism, but just motivation for them, then that would be great.

00:40:24.520 Well, I think if you're either a young mom or a college student who feels overwhelmed by the

00:40:29.480 culture that you see around you, just know that you're not alone. And I think that may sound like

00:40:33.420 a really obvious and simple message, but I know for me, when I was going, um, going to college

00:40:38.880 surrounded by liberals, just being able to log on and watch a show like yours or listen to it,

00:40:44.860 Ali, and just know that I wasn't crazy. You know, it's not like I'm this, this person all alone

00:40:50.720 in a sea of people who don't think like me, or maybe even would potentially say they hate me if

00:40:56.660 they found out what I actually believe. Just know that there are a lot of people who support you and

00:41:01.580 who appreciate any, anything you can do to stand up for your values and who, who value and treasure

00:41:07.540 what, you know, the changes you might be trying to make in your life, whether that's, um, you know,

00:41:12.120 getting, uh, an education so that you're able to do more for the world or raising your kids,

00:41:17.080 um, you know, in a Christian way so that they can go on to do more good for the planet. Um, that,

00:41:22.840 that matters. And we appreciate it, even though it may sometimes feel like a thankless job or like

00:41:27.240 you're all alone, you're not. And it does matter. Yes. So one, you're not alone. And two, what you do

00:41:34.100 matters and the fight matters. And even though it's scary, and even though you might feel lonely,

00:41:38.780 know that there are a lot of other people in the fight with you and that it's something that we all

00:41:43.020 care about. It's something that's worthwhile. I think that you're right. A lot of times

00:41:46.620 the most disheartening part of it is feeling like you're the only one that thinks these things are

00:41:50.880 concerned in the way that you are. And for everyone listening, they should know that they're

00:41:54.280 absolutely not alone. Um, so thank you for that. And if you could just remind everyone where they

00:41:59.500 can find you. Sure. Uh, if you're on YouTube, you can search me at Lauren Chen. Our channel should

00:42:04.420 pop up. We publish all episodes there. If you prefer audio only podcasts, we're on Google Play,

00:42:09.680 iTunes, and Spotify. And if you're on Twitter or Instagram, you can also follow me there

00:42:14.320 at the Lauren Chen. I unfortunately am on Twitter way too often, but at the very least, you'll be

00:42:19.560 up to date with what I'm doing. Okay. Thank you so much, Lauren. Thanks again for having me.

00:42:24.620 Thanks so much guys for listening. And we will be back here on Monday.

Relatable with Allie Beth Stuckey - August 02, 2019

Ep 145 ｜ Lauren Chen

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