Relatable with Allie Beth Stuckey - Ep 162 ｜ Vaccines Part 1 with Dr. Bob Sears

00:00:00.000 Hey guys, welcome to Relatable. I hope that everyone has had a great week. So I am doing

00:00:04.700 something crazy today. I am engaging in the vaccine conversation, probably the most contentious

00:00:10.840 conversation, maybe one of the most contentious conversations that's happening in this country

00:00:15.080 right now. I know some of you might think I'm out of my mind for even getting into this. It is so

00:00:21.380 controversial, but so many of you have asked me to talk about it. So many of you have asked me to

00:00:26.600 address SB 276, which was the vaccine related law that just passed in California. So I am going to

00:00:33.740 talk to someone who is more on what I call the vaccine hesitant side today. I'm also going to

00:00:39.060 talk to someone in the future who is very pro vaccination because I truly, and I mean this

00:00:44.280 truly want to get both sides of it. And so I want to ask as many questions as possible, get as much

00:00:52.300 information as possible. So we can have an interesting and productive dialogue about this,

00:00:58.380 not just about vaccines, pro vaccine or anti vaccine, uh, but about personal liberty and how

00:01:04.300 we, again, as we've talked about before balance freedom and harm, um, how much personal freedom

00:01:10.500 do we grant? Do we allow before harm public harm outweighs that freedom? So that's really my concern

00:01:17.460 and my interest in this, but I wanted to talk to someone first from the more vaccine hesitant

00:01:22.560 side. And that is Dr. Bob Sears. A lot of you guys know him. He is out of California. So he is

00:01:28.420 going to provide us insight from his perspective today. Okay. Let's get started with Dr. Bob Sears.

00:01:34.920 Dr. Sears. Thank you for joining me. Oh, you're very welcome, Allie. I'm, I'm so thrilled that you

00:01:40.060 want to have me on your show. Yeah. Will you tell everyone who doesn't know who you are and what you do?

00:01:45.140 I am a pediatrician out here in Southern California, and I've been doing that for 21 years now. Um,

00:01:52.520 but my greatest passion is actually to talk about vaccines and vaccine issues and educate people and

00:01:58.480 give people informed consent about, uh, vaccines. You wrote a book about vaccines, very, uh, widely

00:02:05.720 known book back in 2007, correct? Yeah. Yes. It was called the, was it called the vaccine book?

00:02:11.420 Right. Yeah. Very simple. Yes. Very similar. You don't even have to wonder what it's about.

00:02:16.000 Uh, tell me what kind of sparked your interest about vaccines, why you're passionate about telling

00:02:19.720 people about them? Well, I think what made me passionate is even though, you know, vaccines

00:02:24.780 are viewed as very important by most people, there is some risk. And when I was a medical student back

00:02:31.440 at Georgetown, back in the nineties, I actually discovered there was one vaccine that was actually

00:02:36.720 pretty dangerous that they ended up taking off the market. It's the old DPT vaccine. It was causing

00:02:43.040 a lot of very, very serious brain injury. It was very tragic. It was all over the news. It was a,

00:02:48.060 as a big issue, but the medical community was covering it up. They weren't acknowledging the

00:02:53.720 injuries and I was in medical school. So I decided to dig into the Georgetown library and I uncovered so

00:02:59.600 much research about this one vaccine. And even though it was doing some good, it was also doing a lot of

00:03:04.980 harm. So they took it off the market, but for me, they took it off the market 10, 15 years later

00:03:11.420 than they should have. You know, they, they should have realized the potential danger of this one

00:03:16.340 vaccine, you know, way sooner. And so it made me realize the medical community sometimes is capable

00:03:22.280 of covering something up when there's a problem. And, and so that made me just realize I need to do my

00:03:27.920 own research. I jumped right in and I just have researched every single vaccine and every detail

00:03:33.520 possible so that I could really make sure I was making a, an educated decision, uh, with my

00:03:38.520 patients. So I could just make sure they, they know everything that's going on, all the benefits of

00:03:43.620 vaccination, but as well as the, the small risk of vaccination. So I all started way back in medical

00:03:49.260 school. Okay. And your critics would call you anti-vax or even like a hero of the anti-vax movement.

00:03:56.120 Are you anti-vaccination? Right. You know, I'm, I'm not, I'm, I'm, uh, I'm anti-mandatory

00:04:02.780 vaccination. I'm pretty much anti-mandatory, any type of medical treatment. I don't think the

00:04:08.180 government has the right to do that. Uh, especially something as complicated as vaccines. You know,

00:04:13.240 we give 69 doses to vaccines, uh, to, to children nowadays. And, you know, we give the same number

00:04:20.160 of vaccines in the first six months of life for babies as we used to give kids throughout their

00:04:26.140 entire childhood. So, so complicated. So I'm just against mandating them. And as a pediatrician,

00:04:32.660 I mean, I give them in my office here every day and I have given some vaccines to my kids. And so,

00:04:38.940 but I'm just against mandates, but I think people label me as anti-vaccine because as a pediatrician,

00:04:45.960 I think most pediatricians are, are pro mandate. They think vaccines are just so good. They're so

00:04:51.540 wonderful. You just have to mandate them. Right. And whereas I take a more, uh, neutral approach

00:04:56.420 and, and basically like to give informed consent to help people make these decisions.

00:05:01.660 Which is a little bit different than how you're described by people in the media.

00:05:06.800 I think people that know me know what I'm about. People that never meet me and just

00:05:11.820 read about me in the media or they're, you know, a doctor somewhere, you know,

00:05:15.520 that's never met me. Yeah. They definitely have the wrong impression of me.

00:05:18.500 Yeah. You're described as the adjective that I've probably read the most from, uh, your critics

00:05:23.320 about you is dangerous and you have been put on a 35 month, I think probation by the medical board of

00:05:30.060 California for, I think they listed maybe multiple, uh, allegations, but the main one was offering

00:05:36.760 exemptions, medical exemptions to patients that they didn't actually deem. Um, they didn't deem

00:05:43.560 in need of these medical exemptions. So can you talk about that probation?

00:05:48.060 Yeah, I guess it's important to clear that up. Um, uh, my medical board probation came as a result

00:05:54.520 of a court opinion letter that I wrote in a custody dispute. I saw the patient five years ago

00:06:01.120 before there were any mandatory vaccination laws in California. So this was all pre mandate and it had

00:06:08.100 nothing to do with a medical exemption. Actually, the truth is, uh, and, uh, a reporter in the LA

00:06:13.140 times just, just cleared up this, uh, this inaccuracy last week and a story on me. This, my exemption

00:06:19.500 is not about, or my probation is not about a medical exemption. It's about a child, a baby had a very

00:06:25.300 severe neurological reaction to vaccines. Uh, mom and dad stopped vaccinating three years later,

00:06:31.620 they get divorced. It's contentious. Dad wants to get a judge to force vaccines to be resumed.

00:06:39.000 And I took the side of the child and I wrote a letter to the judge in the case saying this baby's

00:06:44.220 vaccine reaction was so bad. I recommend he does not continue vaccines. And the judge agreed with me.

00:06:50.220 He upheld my opinion, but the medical board of California felt differently. The dad reported me

00:06:56.220 and the medical board said, no, we feel like people can only opt out of vaccines if they have a severe

00:07:04.060 brain damaging neurological injury, or they go into anaphylactic shock and nearly die. And

00:07:09.780 you have to be resuscitated. That's really that the medical boards are restrictive guidelines. Whereas

00:07:14.920 me as a doctor, I would judge people should be able to opt out after any potentially

00:07:20.180 serious vaccine reaction. So that's what that's all about. And you're right. The medical board has

00:07:25.020 a few more cases coming against me for actual medical exemptions that I've written for patients,

00:07:30.780 but I stand by those exemptions. I think I only write them for, for children in whom I think vaccines

00:07:36.960 might be dangerous for them to continue. So we'll see, we'll see what happens with those.

00:07:41.800 You feel like in their cases, the vaccines would probably do more harm than good. So that's what you

00:07:48.220 feel like you are weighing against when you're looking at these patients. Are other pediatricians

00:07:53.680 that you know, are they kind of dealing with the same struggles and obstacles that you are?

00:08:00.020 You know what? Most doctors, probably 99% of doctors in California are now scared to even write

00:08:07.680 any medical excuses from vaccines for any patients, because they're seeing that the medical board is

00:08:13.160 coming down on us. And I have, I have maybe a dozen or so colleagues that are evaluating patients and

00:08:20.480 doing what we call vaccine safety evaluations and, you know, consulting with patients to determine if

00:08:26.240 they should get a medical exemption. And a lot of them are following the same parameters that I am,

00:08:31.300 you know, a child who had a very severe reaction shouldn't have to continue. If there's a younger baby in

00:08:38.000 the same family, the younger baby shares the same genetic risks as the older kid. And I would judge

00:08:43.940 that that kid, you know, the baby could have a bad reaction. If mom or dad had a really bad vaccine

00:08:48.740 reaction, or if you have three or four or five close relatives had very severe vaccine reactions,

00:08:54.680 they all share the same genetic risks. And the California law actually made it very clear a few

00:09:00.100 years ago, doctors are supposed to consider family history of vaccine reactions when we're making these

00:09:07.580 safety evaluations. And so that's what myself and my colleagues do. But again, the medical board and

00:09:14.580 and the legislators that just passed this more restrictive law in California, they're judging that

00:09:20.240 no, the only vaccine reactions that warrant an exemption are again, what's called CDC contraindications.

00:09:28.240 That's what I told you before. It's brain injury where it's so severe, you go into a coma and get

00:09:33.040 severely brain injured, or you go into anaphylactic shock and nearly die. That's their, you know,

00:09:39.000 recommendation for exemption. Whereas I think most people maybe, I don't know, with a brain would say,

00:09:45.240 no, if you have any sort of severe nerve injury, or say it's a moderate allergic reaction, but you don't

00:09:51.140 nearly die, or you suffer like a terrible allergic disease that starts right after vaccines. And most

00:09:58.120 people recover from these vaccine reactions. But when you have something pretty serious,

00:10:02.580 you might not want to continue vaccinating. And I think everyone really should have that right,

00:10:07.340 secure for them. And then this new California law overrules that, unfortunately.

00:10:13.080 So do you automatically exempt someone who had a bad reaction to a particular vaccine? Or do you ever

00:10:19.760 work with the family to say, okay, we know, or at least we know as best as we can that you had a bad

00:10:24.900 reaction to this particular shot, DTAP, or whatever it is. But I still think it's important for you to

00:10:30.440 get either, you know, the polio vaccine or whatever. Or do you just say, you know what,

00:10:34.320 you don't need to have vaccines anymore? Well, that would be a case by case basis. And it depends

00:10:40.220 on the severity of the reaction. You know, I have given people exemptions, say, from the, you know,

00:10:46.580 from vaccines, but then we have, say, a measles outbreak in our area. So some people actually come

00:10:52.720 and get the measles vaccine, even though we know it's going to be riskier for them. Now we have an

00:10:57.980 outbreak. And so we might say, well, the need for that might supersede your exemption. Yeah, if we

00:11:03.380 had a polio outbreak in our area, we haven't had polio in the US for 35 years. But if we were to have

00:11:10.200 a polio outbreak, yeah, I would probably say, even though you had like, say, a moderately bad reaction

00:11:16.720 before, or maybe your sibling had a bad reaction. But polio is polio, right? And so, you know, we

00:11:23.700 don't want to put you at risk of polio. So I might, I might selectively and carefully vaccinate an 1.00

00:11:29.260 exempt child. It's all based on need. But Ali, what I think is very concerning, what I think

00:11:34.960 everybody, regardless of what you feel about vaccines, whether you think they're important or not,

00:11:40.820 what the California law just did last week is they took the judgment away from the doctors,

00:11:47.700 doctors no longer get to make these decisions with their individual patients. The decision is now made

00:11:53.500 by the public health department, who is an appointed hired, you know, employee, a bureaucrat, so to speak,

00:12:01.800 they now get to make these medical judgments on whether or not your, your child can be exempt after

00:12:08.420 bad reaction. And that's very uncomfortable to me. And I hope that scares everybody that

00:12:12.820 the government would say, our judgment in medical decisions regarding a 69 dose vaccine schedule

00:12:19.900 is now going to supersede the judgment of your doctor, your doctor can't decide anymore, we get

00:12:25.660 to decide and anything that interferes with the doctor patient relationship like that, I think is a

00:12:30.380 huge red flag, and should really wake up America to, to this huge government overreach.

00:12:36.580 Yes, I definitely want to get into that, the SB 276, because that's really why I think a lot of

00:12:43.760 people have asked me to address this. Because as you said, no matter what people think about vaccines,

00:12:49.020 this makes even some of the most pro vaccination people I know, extremely uncomfortable to put this

00:12:56.260 in the hands of Democrats, especially people who are conservatives. This is a conservative podcast,

00:13:00.860 even though this issue isn't necessarily just a conservative one. Conservatives are typically

00:13:05.700 naturally mistrusting of so much centralized power, especially when it comes to, you know,

00:13:12.880 injecting something into your child's body. But I want to go back just a little bit, just so I can

00:13:19.860 better understand, I was talking to you before this about how I'm just kind of, I'm researching

00:13:24.960 vaccines really kind of, not for the first time, but learning, learning a lot, reading a lot,

00:13:31.340 of course, as a mom, you said that if there was a measles outbreak, or if there was a polio outbreak,

00:13:38.380 I think I read that in some country, they're having a polio outbreak right now. So say something

00:13:44.860 crazy happened, polio happens here, you said that you might take some people who would be sensitive to

00:13:50.860 vaccines, and you would vaccinate them based on the risk. But I think the argument to that would be,

00:13:56.960 well, why not, if the disease is that bad, if measles or polio is that bad, isn't it worth the

00:14:05.080 risk? And the first one, why wait until there's an outbreak, until this person gets polio or measles?

00:14:09.940 Why not just vaccinate them in the first place? Well, I mean, that is a great question. I think it's

00:14:15.900 all based on risk assessment. We have no polio, we haven't, you know, for many years. So I don't think

00:14:24.100 there's any need, you know, to get a polio vaccine if there's risk. But I think, I mean, you know,

00:14:32.100 when you look at measles, measles as a disease, you know, we had a very small outbreak here in

00:14:37.340 California. We've had more measles this year in the United States than we've had in about 20 years,

00:14:42.660 but it's still not widespread outbreaks. These outbreaks are pretty well contained. The risk of

00:14:48.760 measles as a disease is about one in 10,000 risk of dying, right? One out of every 10,000 cases in

00:14:56.540 our country will be fatal. So we haven't had a child die of measles in the United States since 2003.

00:15:03.800 And all these outbreaks we've had in recent years, no kids have died. So it's not a disease that's

00:15:10.040 rampaging and killing everybody left and right. Measles actually used to be viewed on par as chicken

00:15:15.780 pox. You know, everyone caught measles back in the 60s and 70s. And it was, you know, there was a

00:15:21.300 Brady Bunch episode where the kids all caught measles and they acted like it was kind of a

00:15:25.000 no big deal. And they were almost glad they caught measles. And I'm not saying you should catch measles,

00:15:29.800 but it used to be viewed that way. The fatality rate is extremely low. The complication rate is very,

00:15:36.460 very low. You can reduce the complications of measles by taking a lot of extra vitamin A.

00:15:41.580 And if you're well nourished, measles will be a very routine disease. So that's measles, right?

00:15:47.340 And when you look at the MMR vaccine itself, and you're comparing the danger of the disease compared

00:15:53.200 to the danger of the vaccine, well... And MMR, just so everyone knows, is measles,

00:15:57.020 mumps, and rubella? Correct. Yeah, it's measles, mumps, rubella mixed together because it's just easier

00:16:02.720 to give it that way. The risk of the actual vaccine, every time there's a serious reaction to a vaccine,

00:16:10.460 Ali, these are all, the reaction reports are sent to the government. Every time someone has a really

00:16:16.700 serious reaction to a vaccine. MMR vaccine has had tens of thousands of serious reactions reported.

00:16:25.100 But MMR vaccine has actually also had about 400 fatal reactions reported from it over the last 30

00:16:33.920 years. And we've had about 100 fatal reactions reported to this vaccine in the last 19 years,

00:16:41.680 right? So we've had one child die very tragically from measles in the last 19 years. And we've had

00:16:49.360 100 people have fatal reported reactions right after the vaccination.

00:16:53.800 Yeah. Describe to me what, how we tie the fatal reactions to MMR. Is that investigated to know,

00:17:04.380 okay, all of these are very probably linked to the vaccination and not to something else?

00:17:10.080 Well, that's a good, that's a great question. A very important question, right? I mean, it's all,

00:17:14.320 it's all tied together based on timing, right? You get, you're, you're very healthy, you get an MMR vaccine,

00:17:20.360 and a day or two later, or within a week, you suffer what's called encephalitis, where the vaccine

00:17:26.480 basically infects your brain. It's a very rare complication of the vaccine. And, and, and try,

00:17:32.460 and even, even the American Academy of Pediatrics, which is the foremost expert on vaccines,

00:17:38.280 they reported on this finding 20 years ago, they did a case study, they found 48 confirmed cases of

00:17:46.520 severe brain injury reactions after the MMR vaccine. That was just 48 confirmed. So when you

00:17:52.960 talk about non-confirmed serious or fatal cases, it's just based on timing. You had the vaccine,

00:17:59.560 you died, you know, suffered this horrible, you know, brain injuring or other severe allergic reaction

00:18:04.560 within a few days or a week, and you pass away, that gets reported to the government. Now,

00:18:10.200 how many are for sure from the vaccine? We don't know, Ali, because they're actually not very

00:18:15.160 carefully investigated. But I would say even if, even if 10% of those are due to the vaccine,

00:18:21.780 there's still more, more fatal vaccine reactions than we do from actual fatal cases of the disease.

00:18:27.760 So I think, again, it comes down to, should you as a healthcare consumer and a patient,

00:18:34.620 should you be able to have these conversations with your doctor and assess all the data and,

00:18:39.760 and kind of make these decisions for yourself? Or should the government step in and make this

00:18:44.800 decision for you and make it mandatory? And, and I say, no, I think these always have to be

00:18:50.980 optional decisions, you know, where there's a risk like this, especially a medically known risk that's

00:18:56.500 been confirmed, there has to be a choice. Why is it that with vaccines, it seems like

00:19:03.300 asking questions as a parent, just asking basic questions like, hey, what's in this? Are there any

00:19:09.880 adverse reactions? Tell me, tell me the risk here? Just wondering, you know, especially when you've

00:19:16.720 got this little tiny baby that's never had anything injected into its body, has never eaten anything

00:19:22.560 except for milk. And you are worried about, you know, defiling the purity of this little child. But if

00:19:29.900 you ask questions, it does kind of seem like all of a sudden you are ostracized as some kind of hippie.

00:19:37.380 And I'm saying this is, I'm trying to say this as a, as a neutral person on vaccines. I think that

00:19:42.840 that is wrong. Why is that? Why is it that when people just ask simple questions could be totally

00:19:48.300 pro-vaccination, but they just want to know what the risk, what, what is the risk for my six week old,

00:19:53.760 eight week old child? Why are they looked at like they have three heads?

00:19:57.700 Yes. And that's probably the number one reason, you know, why we do the vaccine conversation

00:20:05.580 with myself and Melissa is, is no one can have those conversations anywhere. I mean, you can't

00:20:11.700 talk to your neighbors, can't talk to your family, and you definitely can't talk to your doctor about

00:20:16.600 it. And, and I'm sorry to say that as a doctor, but doctors just won't have this conversation with you.

00:20:22.460 Most doctors are now kicking patients out unless they comply with the full vaccine schedule.

00:20:29.960 I think doctors largely view vaccines as so critically important that there's only one

00:20:37.060 right answer. And the other problem is doctors are actually trained that vaccine reactions are not

00:20:43.020 real. And it's sad to say as real as they are, and as, as, as clear as the evidence in the scientific

00:20:49.140 literature is about vaccine reactions. We're trained in medical school, all vaccine reactions

00:20:55.080 are coincidental. So they don't really happen. You can just ignore them. Therefore, vaccines are

00:21:00.840 perfectly safe and effective. And therefore there's only one right answer. So why would I,

00:21:06.220 as a doctor, waste my time and your time having a discussion about it when there's only one thing

00:21:10.760 you should choose? And it does a huge disservice, Ali. I mean, yeah, I mean, imagine you sitting there

00:21:16.240 in front of a doctor and you, you ask a question and they just shut you down. I mean, you know,

00:21:20.720 you can talk about discipline all day long. They're going to prescribe you an antibiotic

00:21:24.920 and they're going to warn you about the side effects. You want to go on, you know, ADD medication

00:21:30.600 for your child with ADD, and they're going to have to warn you about the cardiac side effects and the

00:21:36.140 neurological side effects and the psychiatric side effects. You can talk all day about anything else,

00:21:40.860 but you can't talk about vaccines with your doctor. It's, it's taboo. And it's, and I think

00:21:47.340 wise parents are starting to realize if there's something that we can't talk about, there's got

00:21:52.720 to be a reason they're not willing to talk about it. And I'm going to need to go discover for myself

00:21:58.100 what's, you know, what's taboo about it. And when parents do that, they realize that even though

00:22:03.480 vaccine injury is not common, it's real and they're concerned about it and they just want to know the

00:22:09.400 truth and the risk. Do you think that the risk of vaccine injury and vaccine death is at all

00:22:17.180 overblown? Or do you think that, uh, everyone who is talking about the risks of it have a really good

00:22:25.180 handle on, on the likelihood? No, I don't, I don't think we're overblowing at all. And then think about

00:22:31.720 the motivation of these people, Allie. I mean, a lot of people talk about, you know, I mean, most people

00:22:37.380 are motivated financially by something if they're going to go out and promote something, but when

00:22:42.820 you're a, the parent of a vaccine injured child, you don't have anything to gain by being vocal

00:22:49.160 about it. You have everything to lose. You're going to be ostracized by your, your, your, your family,

00:22:54.100 your friends, the ones that really know you and love you will stand by your side. But I mean, what

00:22:59.800 would be a parent's motivation to lie about vaccine injury? I mean, they, they get, now they're getting

00:23:06.440 kicked out of school for not continuing vaccines. You know, if they were just going to be quiet about

00:23:11.520 it and move on with their lives, then they could keep all their friends and they could safely walk

00:23:15.620 around the neighborhood without people looking at them funny. So there's, there's no motivation for

00:23:21.100 these parents to lie about these vaccine injuries. And then me as a doctor and then the, the colleagues

00:23:26.660 of mine that speak out about it, you know, we, you know, our, our medical licenses are at risk,

00:23:31.780 our reputations at risk. We certainly don't make any money. In fact, I lose a lot of money over this.

00:23:37.300 My malpractice insurance is double. Um, I, uh, I actually can't contract with medical insurances to

00:23:45.320 get insurance payments for, for patients anymore because of my probation. Actually, it costs me a

00:23:50.360 lot of money to make this stand, um, about, you know, vaccine safety awareness and vaccine injury

00:23:56.640 awareness. So when you, you know, when it comes to motivation, I think motivation is really how you

00:24:02.040 can read somebody. And you show me a parent that has a nefarious motivation for talking about that

00:24:09.760 vaccine injury. And I'll stop, I'll, I'll stop talking about this because you're not going to

00:24:14.240 find out those parents, their, their heart is broken. Their child is broken. Um, they have to live

00:24:20.520 this vaccine injury the rest of their life to take care of their child, take care of their child.

00:24:25.180 They simply want other parents to know they want to know there's a risk. Um, it probably won't happen

00:24:31.900 to your child, but if it does, you just got to go into this with your eyes open. That's what their

00:24:36.960 motivation is. And I think it's a very pure motivation. I think that there are, there are pure

00:24:43.600 motives or there are pure or pure, purely motivated people on both sides in that the people who are

00:24:52.320 pro vaccine, they're very scared. I mean, and I can, I understand this. I am too. I don't,

00:24:58.900 even though my child might not die from measles, I don't want her to get measles. You know, I don't

00:25:03.800 want my child to get polio. I don't want to see my child suffer from whooping cough. People who have

00:25:09.140 compromised immune systems feel like they are relying on other people to be immunized. Um,

00:25:16.200 and so there's real fear on the other side. And then you have real fear on what I like to call

00:25:21.600 people who are hesitant about vaccines. I don't like to say anti-vax. I think it's used as a

00:25:25.840 pejorative, um, of the, the risks that there are for injury. They don't want to see their child

00:25:31.020 suffer in that way. They're afraid of that. And I think everyone, they come up with different

00:25:36.060 conclusions, but everyone is weighing the risks and they come up with their own decisions. And I

00:25:41.860 think that that is where I can, I can speak into that confidently of saying, I want every parent to

00:25:48.420 be able to do that. I want every parent to be, as you have said, informed, fully informed. I don't

00:25:54.400 want a parent who just has questions about vaccines to feel intimidated by their doctor. And I don't want

00:26:00.900 the doctor to be intimidated by the medical board. I want to be able to have honest conversations about

00:26:05.600 that. I want to, a parent who says I'm all for vaccines to go for it. I want there to be a

00:26:12.040 reasonable conversation on the other side about the risks as well. And I think that's where SB 276

00:26:17.160 comes in in California, um, where it seems like all of those conversations are being stifled,

00:26:23.080 um, where the doctor probably feels very intimidated. I think that the bill says, and you can tell me

00:26:29.080 exactly what the bill says, but you are basically limited. If you reach more than five medical

00:26:35.320 exemptions, medical exemptions, we're not talking about philosophical exemptions, which are already

00:26:40.520 outlawed in California, but medical exemptions, then that triggers something triggers the medical

00:26:46.840 board to review you and all that basically could get in trouble. So that scares me as someone who

00:26:52.620 is being as neutral as possible on this. Can you talk a little bit more about it?

00:26:55.720 Yeah. And, and let, let me, let me touch base also on the worry about, about unvaccinated kids

00:27:06.180 and, um, you know, uh, you know, do, does everyone need to vaccinate it in order to protect the

00:27:12.620 immunocompromised kids and keep diseases at bay? And, and the way I look at that issue, Ali, and it's

00:27:18.940 very important to look at it is almost all adults are effectively unimmunized because all our vaccines

00:27:26.940 have, have worn off for the most part. And we, we have very little polio immunity. We've lost our

00:27:32.580 measles immunity, mumps and rubella. We're not immune to chickenpox. We're not immune to whooping

00:27:37.700 cough. Um, so the majority of, of the population or, or the herd, so to speak, is not, is not immunized

00:27:45.880 anymore. Uh, we were susceptible to these diseases. And that's the primary reason why we still see

00:27:52.700 measles outbreaks. Most measles outbreaks are started by adults. Um, many of him, of whom were

00:27:58.720 immunized as kids. And then some of this spreads to immunized kids, some of the spreads to unimmunized

00:28:05.320 kids. Um, but a lot of these diseases spread among adults. So even if we vaccinate a hundred percent

00:28:12.000 of children, we're still going to have a disease outbreaks because it'll happen in adults and it'll

00:28:18.780 happen in the five percent of kids in whom the vaccines don't work. So for me, when you have one

00:28:25.880 or two percent of children who are opting out of vaccination, that doesn't change the, the global

00:28:32.600 herd immunity to any significant extent. And for me, that's why it is safe as a, as a nation,

00:28:39.000 and as a community to have people be able to, uh, have a, a certain percentage with medical need,

00:28:44.600 uh, children, I like to call them the vaccine compromise. They've already had a severe reaction

00:28:49.780 or their, or their, they have siblings or parents with severe reactions. Those vaccine compromised

00:28:55.100 kids need to be protected as well. So I think we can do a better job, uh, working together for

00:29:01.080 everybody instead of requiring these very strict mandates. And you did say though, that we've had more

00:29:06.280 measles this year than we have in 20 years, but you did mention that only one child very tragically

00:29:12.260 died back in 2003, but do you not correspond the out, uh, so-called, I mean, I guess it's an

00:29:19.100 outbreak. I don't, I don't know if you can, what it technically is qualified as an outbreak and

00:29:22.520 increase in measles. Do you not correspond that with what seems like a growing movement of

00:29:27.840 vax hesitant people? Well, the, no, I don't relate it to that alley because, uh, measles is spreading

00:29:35.920 again, largely among, um, previously vaccinated adults who have lost their immunity. Um, it just

00:29:44.040 spreads around communities that way. Yes. It involves some kids too, and it involves some immune,

00:29:49.700 unimmunized kids, but I don't think we're having this increase because, um, of the higher number of

00:29:57.260 unvaccinated children. I think we're having this increase just simply because adults don't have

00:30:02.460 herd immunity. Um, they don't have their natural immunity. And another big reason actually, Ali, 0.99

00:30:08.140 and there is science that, that, that, that looked at this is, um, adults who caught measles,

00:30:13.140 you know, 40, 50 years ago, they grew up immune and they're immune for life. So our entire adult

00:30:19.240 population actually used to be immune because everyone used to catch measles. Now, all the older people 1.00

00:30:26.720 who have natural immunity, they're all passing on, you know, passing on with life. They're all passing

00:30:31.540 away from, you know, natural causes and whatever. Our, our, our middle-aged adult population now are

00:30:38.400 all the ones that were vaccinated for measles in the sixties and seventies and eighties. So they never

00:30:44.000 got natural immunity. So now we have this huge adult growing population who are susceptible, right?

00:30:49.980 So they're the ones catching measles. Whereas 20, 30 years ago, our entire adult population was a lot

00:30:57.080 more immune naturally from having caught the disease. So we weren't seeing the disease spread

00:31:02.380 way back then. So I think that's why we're seeing more measles now, not because of unimmunized kids. 0.52

00:31:08.800 And so that's why I don't think we, we need to discriminate against these unimmunized kids or

00:31:13.520 come down hard on them or mandate things because we have this huge adult population, uh, who are

00:31:19.120 unimmunized to, to deal with. Does that make sense? Yeah, it does make sense. I've definitely,

00:31:23.760 I've never heard that before. I would love to look at some studies of, of who is actually catching or

00:31:29.600 at least the age range of people that are catching measles. And I don't know if we can know if they

00:31:34.920 were vaccinated or not, but that would be really interesting to look at. I'm sure.

00:31:38.800 Right. We have, we have those data and Melissa has those data. She loves to talk about it. We could,

00:31:44.500 we could have that conversation sometime. Um, I don't have it in front of me.

00:31:48.520 At my age, it's hard to, you know, always memorize all these numbers, but that's what,

00:31:53.160 that's what my partner is for in this, in, uh, in this endeavor. Um, you know, you asked about the

00:31:58.780 law. Yes. Uh, about this specifically about the law. Um, what did you ask me again? I forget.

00:32:03.560 Well, I, I want to hear from you what exactly it is. I, I do know, like I said, the, the five

00:32:08.720 exemptions, but if you could go into detail on what this is. Okay. All right. Right. Well,

00:32:14.000 what this new California law does, it basically sets up a new system for writing medical exemptions

00:32:20.260 starting next year, um, 2020 or 2021. I forget. It's one of those two years. Um, uh, doctors

00:32:28.720 will now write an exemption letter and send it to the public health department for approval

00:32:34.340 and for review every single one. Um, uh, every single one will, it'll either get sent to the

00:32:44.380 health health department for approval or it'll get sent to the school. And then the school will

00:32:48.940 send it to health department for approval. One of those two. Um, and the health department will look

00:32:54.120 at these exemptions and verify if the exemption was based on the CDC criteria. Basically did, did the

00:33:02.340 child have anaphylactic shock and nearly die, or was the child severely brain injured and saying,

00:33:09.480 go into a coma and suffer, you know, severe neurological damage. And if that happened, then that

00:33:15.280 child can be exempt from that one vaccine that caused that reaction, but we won't exempt the child

00:33:22.480 from all the other vaccines. You'll still have to continue to vaccinate. And Oh, if that happened

00:33:27.620 to your first child, your second child will not get an exemption. Your second child will have to get

00:33:34.320 the same vaccine that caused that very severe injury. And then if the public health department

00:33:40.640 finds exemptions that were written for any other reason, like say just more moderate severe reactions,

00:33:48.980 like what I write now, if they find exemptions like that, they'll report you to the medical board.

00:33:55.040 And if you write more than five in a year, they will review all yours, you know, directly. Um,

00:34:01.060 it's a, it's a very broken system. Um, now the exemptions that people have been writing as of now,

00:34:07.760 as of this year, like all the old exemptions from the past few years, that's kind of a uncertain

00:34:13.500 right now. We think those exemptions are going to be grandfathered in and not revoked, but only until

00:34:21.760 your child, um, reaches kindergarten, if they're younger, or only until your child reaches seventh

00:34:27.860 grade, if they're already in elementary school, once your child reaches one of those checkpoints,

00:34:33.920 kindergarten or seventh grade, then the exemption will be revoked. And you'll then need to get a new

00:34:39.940 exemption under the new guidelines. And, um, it's, it's just, it's, it's mind boggling how a government

00:34:47.560 could think that that's a better idea for its people, uh, compared to the current system. Just,

00:34:54.320 it just blows my mind. And is this for children that are only attending public private school? Can,

00:35:03.920 if, if someone is homeschooled, are, are they somehow mandated to be vaccinated as well?

00:35:11.040 No, uh, homeschoolers are not subject to this law. And, and so I think we're going to have a lot of

00:35:16.720 homeschoolers. Homeschooling has already tripled in California when they passed the first law four

00:35:22.280 years ago. Uh, we're now going to have a lot more homeschooling families because, you know, these

00:35:27.380 families are not, you know, most of them are not going to be comfortable continuing vaccines and

00:35:31.560 they're at risk kids. And I actually, I think, I worry that we're going to, uh, schools are going

00:35:36.360 to lose funding. Their populations are going to decrease because of this, they're going to lose

00:35:39.960 funds. People are going to lose their jobs. It's going to cause a big kind of upheaval in the

00:35:45.140 educational system. You know, a public school, private school, religious school, all daycares,

00:35:51.180 you can't register your child anywhere anymore, unless you, uh, unless you get vaccinated or you have a

00:35:57.140 qualifying medical reason to opt out of vaccines. I think some people I've heard actually stories of

00:36:04.240 people who do have a vaccine injured child who they believe was injured from a vaccine. They're

00:36:09.980 in California. They're trying to find a pediatrician to take them in. And some pediatricians won't even

00:36:15.560 see them, even though their child is legitimately injured, won't even see them because of the risk.

00:36:21.480 And it seems like this law could maybe exacerbate that. Yeah. Yeah. Again, Ali, because what does that

00:36:26.440 doctor thinking? That doctor is thinking your child's vaccine injury is not real. It didn't

00:36:32.920 happen. It was coincidental. Even if it happened, you know, one hour after a group of five vaccines,

00:36:40.600 your child crashes and burns and is severely brain injured, you know, not automobile crash and burn.

00:36:46.920 I just mean, they, they just deteriorate before your eyes and suffer severe neurological injury.

00:36:52.460 Even if that happens, doctors are trained that that's just not real. It would have happened

00:36:56.880 anyway. It would have just randomly happened. Even if we had not just done these five injections,

00:37:01.940 that's literally how doctors see this alley. So they do not want to acknowledge vaccine injury.

00:37:08.940 So they're just, they just don't want it in their office. And I don't know if it's a protective

00:37:12.900 mechanism. I don't know if they're, they're, they're worried about facing something that's uncomfortable.

00:37:18.300 You know, they were taught vaccines are a hundred percent safe. So they've been giving them to their

00:37:23.820 patients all these years. Yeah. The occasional patient has a severe reaction and leaves their

00:37:29.160 office, leaves their practice. So it doesn't stay in their mind. Maybe it's just more comfortable for

00:37:34.700 them to continue practicing just kind of in their, in their bubble of, of not acknowledging real

00:37:41.480 vaccine injury. And I think that just does, just as a huge disservice to these families. Um, you might

00:37:47.780 not know that, but, uh, doctors do have a financial incentive to vaccinate insurance companies actually

00:37:54.340 now give doctors year end bonuses in the hundreds of thousands of dollars. If they have a very high

00:38:01.440 rate of fully vaccinated patients in their office. So very sadly, these families that are either vaccine

00:38:08.340 injured and opt out or the families that choose not to vaccinate in the first place, they are now

00:38:14.100 actually hurting the bottom line of these doctors. And I, I would, I would actually not say that. I

00:38:19.980 don't think that's what motivates most of these doctors. I don't, I don't think they're financially

00:38:24.120 motivated, but I think that's part of their, their fear. They're just trying to make a decent living

00:38:29.440 and insurance pays so little to begin with. If they can get these year end bonuses,

00:38:34.360 it really helps their business. And then sadly that that's probably in part what is affecting

00:38:40.680 their, their unwillingness to serve these patients. Senator Pan, that's his name, correct? The guy who

00:38:49.120 really, um, was in charge of SB 276. He has a list of myths on his site or what he calls myths on his

00:38:59.860 site and what he calls truths to combat that myth. And one thing that he says is that it's

00:39:04.300 actually a myth that doctors in any way financially benefit from vaccines, but you're saying that's

00:39:10.560 untrue. Right. Right. Yeah. We, we showed the legislators or a friend of mine that that practice

00:39:16.120 is near me. He showed me his medical insurance contracts and it says very clearly for every

00:39:23.020 child in his practice that gets the MMR and the chickenpox vaccine, we will give you $150 year end

00:39:31.000 bonus. So if he has a thousand kids in his practice that he's vaccinating with MMR and chickenpox

00:39:37.260 that year, that's $150,000 bonus. He gets at the end of the year, he showed it to me and we showed

00:39:44.500 this to legislators. Legislators don't believe it either. We showed this in print the actual contract.

00:39:50.720 Um, and they were shocked, um, and again, um, you know, you alluded to this, uh, earlier, but people have

00:39:57.000 to realize this, this, um, mandatory vaccine agenda is very largely a democratic party agenda and, and

00:40:05.400 Democrats are, are, are dumbfounded as to why, I mean, if the democratic party often is kind of founded on,

00:40:11.740 on, on individual freedoms and, you know, and, uh, you know, uh, you know, it's a government,

00:40:17.000 you know, for the people and, um, and, you know, you're not having government overreach and, you

00:40:22.080 know, uh, and it's, it's strange when I talk to most Democrats and Republicans, uh, too, as far as

00:40:28.880 citizens, almost every one of them is against mandatory vaccines, especially this new law,

00:40:34.320 especially after you've already been injured. But for some reason, the democratic legislators

00:40:39.340 won't budge. Their party is pushing this agenda. And I I've sat in front of a number of these

00:40:46.680 democratic legislators. They told me, I agree with you, Dr. Sears, you are right. I agree with

00:40:52.820 you, but I can't vote that way. If I vote that way, I'll be screwed by my party. Um, I'll get in 0.73

00:40:59.460 trouble. I'll lose the support of my, my fellow party members is very sad. Um, and I think the

00:41:05.600 public needs to wake up to, to, you know, to what's really going on. And, um, you really need to make

00:41:11.840 your voices heard and heard loud because they're not listening. And there's some sort of influence

00:41:16.640 over them that, that kind of baffles, uh, all of our minds. What incentive would these legislators

00:41:23.660 have like Senator Pan to push something like this? I mean, there's definitely an argument on that side

00:41:30.120 for just public health, that this is a public health issue. Um, but I know a lot of people on

00:41:35.980 the other side aren't really buying that. There's a lot of talk of big pharma and I don't really know

00:41:40.940 that much about that. Is that it part of the ulterior motive that you feel like these legislators

00:41:46.660 have? Well, I think, uh, this is not going to be news to your listeners, Allie. Um, big business

00:41:54.220 donates billions of dollars to legislators. I mean, that's not news to anybody. Uh, big oil donates,

00:42:01.300 you know, uh, um, you know, uh, you know, farm workers unions, teachers unions, uh, any credit,

00:42:06.740 big business, you know, uh, cellular industry or tech industry and the pharmaceutical industry,

00:42:12.400 they all donate billions of dollars to legislators. And so the legislators there, they are sadly

00:42:19.020 beholden to, to people who donate to them. And, and here's kind of the, the, you know,

00:42:25.520 and we know Senator Pan out in California, he was one of the largest recipients of pharmaceutical

00:42:31.480 donations over the last few years. And I, I don't know if this number is exactly correct,

00:42:36.020 but a number from last year said, I think 40% of all his donations were from the pharmaceutical

00:42:42.120 industry. And, and, and I mean, you can't say there's nothing illegal about that. And you might

00:42:48.940 say it's unethical, but it's not illegal to accept these donations and then, and then act on them. I

00:42:54.260 mean, that's just the nature of our, of our process, but here's where, here's where it goes wrong. And

00:42:58.560 here's where I have a problem, Allie. You may or may not know, but in 1986, the government

00:43:04.980 passed the vaccine injury compensation act, and they gave pharmaceutical companies liability from

00:43:12.080 all vaccine injuries. So many kids were getting injured by vaccines. Pharma said, we can't make

00:43:18.440 vaccines anymore. They're, they're costing us too much and injury liability. So Congress said, okay,

00:43:24.680 we'll take away liability. So people can't sue you anymore, but we're going to want you to work

00:43:30.080 on vaccine safety and start researching more. So that was 30 years ago. Meanwhile, pharma has not

00:43:36.980 done anything to make vaccines safer. They've just come out with more vaccines because now vaccines

00:43:42.140 are liability free. So why not make more of them? Because, you know, even if they cause harm, it's

00:43:46.940 okay. You can't get sued. But that, again, that's not even the bad part. Meanwhile, pharma over the last

00:43:53.360 30 years has donated billions and billions of dollars to all these legislators. Now,

00:44:00.380 these legislators are mandating pharma's liability free products. And to me, that's where they've gone

00:44:06.400 too far. Congress did pharma favor to take away liability. Pharma returned the favor by donating

00:44:12.520 billions of dollars to government and legislators. And now legislators are going to mandate those actual

00:44:18.800 products that they made liability free and that they're getting billions of donations for. How can

00:44:25.100 that possibly be ethical by any standard? And to me, that's really the ultimate way where they've

00:44:31.500 crossed the line with this law. I mean, it's one thing to say vaccines are important. It's another

00:44:36.420 thing to say they're mandated for school. You have no choice. And if you don't get in line and keep doing

00:44:42.880 it after an injury, we're going to kick you out. We're going to segregate you. We're going to

00:44:46.740 discriminate against you. This isn't, you know, separate and equal schools. This is no schools

00:44:52.260 for certain people now. And that just, that just devastates me. And I hope the American public will

00:44:57.780 wake up to this. Does SB 276 say that you have to get every single vaccine that the CDC recommends,

00:45:07.340 like even rotavirus or something like that? A great question. No, the law only mandates

00:45:14.680 about half of the vaccines on the schedule for now. But the law can expand any time to include any new

00:45:23.600 vaccines and any recent vaccines that have been added. So, I mean, right now, again, we give 69 doses of

00:45:32.580 16 different vaccines. The law mandates about half of them, but they're going to add them on. They might

00:45:38.520 add, you know, HPV vaccine. They can add rotavirus, pneumococcal, flu shots, hepatitis A. I mean, they can add

00:45:46.640 any vaccine they want to in the future, and they will. I mean, why wouldn't they, Ali? I mean, no government

00:45:52.240 is going to mandate these and just stick to the, you know, the doses that, you know, that they, they're in the

00:45:58.480 law now. Of course, they're going to add all the new vaccines. And that's why people need to stand up now to this,

00:46:04.500 because if we let this start rolling over across the country and state by state starts passing these

00:46:10.500 same laws, I mean, it's, I hope it doesn't go there. I hope people wake up to this. And I almost

00:46:18.360 think this even could backfire on them. If too many Americans realize that the government has gone too

00:46:24.800 far, they might stand up. And this might bring down the whole vaccine industry, because people are now

00:46:30.780 starting to realize of the conflicts of interest and follow the money, and the, you know, the denial of vaccine

00:46:36.920 injury, when people start to realize all that, and now they're turning it into laws, you know, you know, hopefully

00:46:44.520 people will rise up and we'll have a huge change to the system where you can make it better and safer for

00:46:50.520 everybody.

00:46:51.620 I think it's unfortunate how they have gone about this in California, because this is and again, I'm not even I'm not

00:46:59.080 assuming that you agree with all my politics. But something that we talk about on this podcast is

00:47:04.360 that how the left does things can alienate people, you could maybe say that about the right as well.

00:47:10.700 But coming from a conservative perspective, how they do things pushes people towards the center and even

00:47:17.340 towards the right. And I think that's true about this. The only reason why I'm even having this

00:47:21.860 conversation, why it even came to mind is because of the issue of personal liberty. And there's always,

00:47:29.080 there's always in everything, whether you're talking about guns, or whether you're talking

00:47:32.020 about vaccines, there is always a balance to strike between freedom and harm. How much personal

00:47:37.300 freedom can we grant someone until the harm just begins to outweigh it as a conservative, I typically

00:47:42.820 go on the side of of freedom. And so I think that is, I think that is the issue here. And that's what

00:47:51.300 people are afraid of that even people that are pro vaccine, that might be a Democrat that might be on the

00:47:57.420 left. They're like, Okay, I am pro vaccination, but I want to be able to ask questions, I want to be

00:48:03.580 informed. And I certainly don't want the state and bureaucrats deciding whether or not my child

00:48:08.960 was injured enough to have a vaccine. Like, it's that's just very hard to prove as well. And I think

00:48:16.420 that that's the concern. And if I'm just being totally candid, again, as a neutral person in all of

00:48:22.340 this, that is my concern as well. I'm always concerned with government over overreach, but

00:48:27.180 especially when it comes to our children, especially from the party who talks so much about bodily

00:48:32.620 autonomy, and talk so much about the private decisions between, you know, an OB and a woman to

00:48:39.500 be able to have an abortion or not, all of a sudden, that's thrown out the window. And that, that does

00:48:44.840 kind of confuse me a little bit as someone who does see benefits and vaccines.

00:48:48.780 Yeah, I hear the same thing from all my, my democratic friends here in California, they're,

00:48:54.900 they're just, their minds are boggled. Why, you know, out of one side of the mouth, the Democrats

00:49:00.300 can talk about everything you just said. And then on the other side of the mouth, they can say,

00:49:05.140 we're going to mandate vaccines. And even after vaccine injury, you still have to keep getting them

00:49:10.280 or you're, you know, kicked out of a society. Again, it's, and I can't say enough, it's not the

00:49:17.460 democratic people. It's not the democratic voters. There's something strange going on in the

00:49:23.960 legislative house that is driving this. And, and there, I mean, all, so many of their democratic

00:49:31.680 constituents are calling these offices and saying, please don't vote for this bill. And they're just

00:49:36.540 not listening. And again, it, it, it probably just comes down to the, the pharma agenda, the medical

00:49:42.820 agenda. That's just, you know, pharma is just one of the biggest industries that has a hold on our

00:49:48.740 government. And I think, I think everyone nationwide wants to fix that part of our government. They

00:49:55.560 don't want big industry to have this stranglehold on our government anymore, but no one knows how to

00:50:01.440 fix it. People always say, well, just vote them out. Well, you know, farmers are just, farmers are just

00:50:06.940 going to vote in the next person, right? Until we fix that system of people being able to have 1.00

00:50:12.460 such influence by, by, you know, by any sort of large corporations until we fix that. I think

00:50:19.440 we're going to continue to see this, uh, this problem and not just in the area of mandatory

00:50:23.840 vaccines, but in a lot of areas. So stand up now, stand up now while you still can.

00:50:29.400 Yes. I think they're, um, going about it the wrong way. If you want to educate people about the

00:50:34.480 benefits of vaccines, I think that can be a very good thing. But when you start telling someone that

00:50:39.480 you have to do something, and by the way, if you ask about what's in this, um, if you ask about the

00:50:44.960 risks, then you are going to be bullied into silence. Then that makes people inherently start

00:50:51.220 questioning. Well, what, why, what are you hiding? Maybe they're not hiding anything, but it makes

00:50:57.660 people very thoughtful people, not conspiracy theorists, just thoughtful people say, well, hang on

00:51:03.960 just a second. Do I not have a right to know? So I think that they're going about it completely the wrong

00:51:08.920 way. One other question that I had is about, um, does this cover, does this law cover delayed

00:51:17.020 vaccine schedules? You came up with the delayed vaccine schedule. I've been told by pediatricians

00:51:22.560 that there is no medical research at all supporting, um, delaying vaccines or spreading them out.

00:51:29.520 Does this law have anything to do with that? Can you still delay them if you want to?

00:51:34.380 Yes. Yeah. You can still delay. And that's what a lot of my patients are doing.

00:51:38.560 Um, uh, they, you know, most of my patients don't vaccinate anymore because I'm the only office they

00:51:45.100 can come to, you know, and all of Southern California. So people flock to me from everywhere

00:51:49.600 because, uh, cause I'm the only one that'll see them. So sort of by default, I have this large

00:51:54.420 population of unvaccinated patients, but a lot of them, uh, uh, will start vaccinating in order to go

00:52:02.300 to school. But yes, the law does allow you to delay them. You don't have to do them during infancy.

00:52:07.280 You can just start them when your child's two, three, or four years old. You just have to get

00:52:12.980 on sort of get on board with part of the schedule by the time you enter school. And so that's

00:52:19.180 something I'm guiding a lot of my patients through, through that process of delayed vaccination,

00:52:23.940 but meeting the school requirements because they don't have a good, uh, legitimate medical reason

00:52:29.720 dropped out of the vaccines. What are you telling people who are very scared right now? A lot of

00:52:37.500 people are super, super concerned. And I think for a good reason, just from a Liberty standpoint about

00:52:42.960 the law in California and what kind of precedent that sets, what do you tell people who are worried?

00:52:49.220 Well, I'm telling people that one of the biggest problems in this,

00:52:53.760 in this issue is everyone's been silent for too long about their vaccine injury. Um, you know,

00:53:01.040 20, 30 years ago, you had a severely vaccine injured child. You just didn't tell anybody

00:53:05.860 out of fear. You just kind of went home and then, you know, just live the rest of your home quietly.

00:53:11.080 Um, the more people that start talking about it, the more friends and family members that start to

00:53:18.840 realize, Hey, you know, I've been your friend for five years. I always wondered what was, you know,

00:53:23.280 why your child seemed neurologically injured. You know, why don't you tell me about it?

00:53:27.000 You start talking about it and they start understanding you started listening and

00:53:31.700 understanding what happened to your child. Then, then those people will start, you know,

00:53:36.980 will stand behind you and get on board with you. And if, if all friends and family and neighbors got

00:53:42.180 behind every vaccine injured child, because their family is now talking about it and publicizing it,

00:53:48.260 then whole neighborhoods would sort of would, could be, could work together on this and

00:53:53.200 communities. They could all go to the legislators together and there could be, you know, a hundred

00:53:58.680 fully vaccinated families standing behind their one neighbor who suffered a terrible vaccine injury

00:54:03.960 and said and say, Hey, we love this person. We're going to stand up for them and stand up for their

00:54:09.000 rights. You can't mandate vaccines for them. Even though we all, you know, we all think that vaccines

00:54:14.220 are good and we did them all with our kids and our kids all got through them. Okay.

00:54:18.260 We're not going to let you segregate or discriminate against our one neighbor who was injured.

00:54:23.280 If, if more people could band together that way and, and stand up, I think we'd be in a much

00:54:28.780 better place. That's why what I tell my, my vaccine injured patients or they're ones who,

00:54:34.420 you know, who have, you know, more kids after a vaccine injury. I just tell them, just stop being

00:54:39.500 quiet about it. Have the conversation, you know, wear interesting t-shirts that,

00:54:44.280 that spark conversation, you know, you know, grocery stores that you're at the, you're getting

00:54:49.940 your haircut, getting your nails done. You're at the gym working out wherever you are, you know,

00:54:55.420 strike up these conversations. The more humanity that we show, the more personal,

00:55:00.480 person to person relationships we can, we can establish and just that are safe places just to

00:55:06.680 talk about this. And the more that it's out there, I think the better community we'll have,

00:55:12.660 the better country we'll have, and we'll be able to, to deal with this problem once and for all,

00:55:17.860 instead of shoving, you know, sweeping it under a rug and not talking about it and just ignoring it

00:55:22.900 and, and moving on with mandates instead of doing what we really need to do, which is address

00:55:28.360 why vaccine injuries happen and how to, how to make vaccines safer. So talk about it, have the

00:55:34.340 conversation. I am definitely inclined towards conversation and dialogue. I think there are very

00:55:40.320 few things that can't be made better by that. Unfortunately, that doesn't seem to be the

00:55:46.120 temperament of our country and a lot of things, definitely not just vaccines, but a lot of different

00:55:51.920 freedoms that we have. It doesn't seem like we can have just a dialogue where both sides can have

00:55:57.440 questions. I know a lot of pro vaccine people that have a lot of questions for the vax hesitant

00:56:02.600 people and vice versa. But so often it turns to this yelling match where both sides are accusing

00:56:10.300 them of hating children. Both sides are accusing them of wanting children dead. I don't think either

00:56:15.800 side wants that. I don't think either side's wants that, which is why I think it was important for me

00:56:21.080 and very informative for me to have this conversation with you because, um, I appreciate hearing from all

00:56:27.960 sides. Like you have said, and I've read that you have said this, um, this is complex. We treat it

00:56:33.820 like it is so simple, like it's so duh, but people have legitimate concerns and that's why you think

00:56:39.780 it's, um, it's worth talking about. If you could direct people to where they can find you and where

00:56:45.280 they can learn more about what you do, that would be great. Well, yeah, I have the vaccine conversation

00:56:51.500 podcast with Melissa and Dr. Bob. Um, Melissa is my partner and everything to do with vaccines. Uh,

00:56:58.740 you know, we speak together, we write, we do a lot of research together. And last year we started

00:57:03.040 podcasting. Um, and it's, it's funny, you would think a podcast about vaccines would be super boring,

00:57:09.760 but let me tell you, the reason I have so much fun doing it is, is Melissa just makes it so much more

00:57:15.760 interesting. Instead of me just being a doctor, you know, talking about medicine all day, she brings in the,

00:57:20.760 the humanity and the mom's perspective and the, you know, the statistical analysis. She's a real

00:57:26.640 science-based background. And, and so we just have this fun conversation for an hour, a couple times

00:57:32.220 a week, uh, every talk, every, every episode is about one little aspect about vaccines. We talk about

00:57:38.800 pretty much every single thing you could ever want to know about vaccines and the diseases. You know,

00:57:43.720 we talk about what the disease risk is, what the vaccine risk is, herd immunity, social media,

00:57:50.760 you know, the media myths, uh, legislative, you know, uh, stuff, um, uh, you know, old research articles. We

00:57:58.500 actually go back 150 years and talk about some of the, the very, the origins of the, you know, like the

00:58:04.820 anti-compulsory vaccination movement. And they bring out these, you know, old historical documents and talk

00:58:11.040 about them. And, and it's so funny. We actually found there is like a, there is a Melissa and Dr. Bob 150 years

00:58:17.720 ago that we're touring around San Diego, trying to warn people about the dangers of the smallpox

00:58:23.300 vaccination. And, and they had all the same issues back then as we do today. Government overreach,

00:58:29.200 medical, you know, the medical system coming down on everybody and everyone denying that, that, uh,

00:58:35.820 smallpox vaccine injury was real and it was real. So it's just so fun. I mean, we just have all these

00:58:40.540 great conversations. It's a lot of fun. It's just the vaccine conversation podcast. And, um,

00:58:45.460 I'm going to keep doing that the rest of my life, hopefully, because I don't think I've ever found

00:58:49.500 anything more fun. Um, more, it's a lot more fun than writing about vaccines is, uh, simply having

00:58:55.320 a conversation with someone that I like to talk to about it. Do you have an episode? One thing that

00:58:59.760 we didn't address that we don't have time to, but I wish that we did was the aborted fetal parts that I

00:59:06.160 used to actually think was just a conspiracy theory. And then it's, it's not, it's a known thing. It's the

00:59:12.340 CDC says that there are, um, do you have an episode on that, that people could listen to since we don't

00:59:17.620 have time to discuss it today? You know what? We don't, but, um, we will soon. I'll put that on

00:59:25.660 the list, uh, for maybe next week's agenda. We just clarify, you know, the actual FDA documents

00:59:31.580 that verify, uh, the presence of aborted fetal DNA and proteins in vaccines. Yes. And there are a lot

00:59:40.020 of different, I'm a Christian. So there's a lot of different Christian ethical perspectives on that.

00:59:44.820 Some that say it's okay. Cause we're not directly supporting abortion. Some that obviously say it's, 0.73

00:59:49.000 it's not okay because you're indirectly supporting abortion and we're pro-life. And so there are a lot

00:59:54.700 of different perspectives on that. I think it would be interesting to hear people talk about it for

00:59:58.200 sure. And it's a little scary to know that the actual physical fragments of, of that fetus's DNA

01:00:05.780 and proteins from the, from that fetus actually are still in the vaccine solution that's injected

01:00:12.740 into you. And I think people need to know that because that, I mean, could it be harmless?

01:00:18.540 Probably, but is, is that, that's kind of a, I think an ethical dilemma that, that Christians 0.86

01:00:24.180 have to be aware of. Yes. And I am always for more research, more information, more conversations,

01:00:30.700 less fear-mongering, more just factual based dialogue about this. So thank you for facilitating

01:00:37.680 that. And thanks for taking the time to come on my show. Sure. Thanks a lot, Allie.

Relatable with Allie Beth Stuckey - September 13, 2019

Ep 162 ｜ Vaccines Part 1 with Dr. Bob Sears

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