Ep 163 ｜ Depression & Suicide
Episode Stats
Words per Minute
185.34038
Summary
Pastor Jared Wilson took his own life last week, leaving behind a wife and two young boys. In this episode, we discuss depression from a biblical and Christian perspective, and offer encouragement for those who are struggling with it.
Transcript
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So there is really no graceful way to shift gears here, but I'm going to try my best.
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Last week on Instagram, I asked you guys what you would like me to talk about on this Theology
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Monday, and the vast majority of you, like a crazy number of you, asked that I talk about
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It came along with the question, do Christians who commit suicide still go to heaven?
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We are going to discuss how to view depression from a biblical perspective that's going to
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be tied in with encouragement for those of you who might be experiencing that or suffering
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The reason why I think many of you asked me this is because of something tragic that happened
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There was a pastor out of California named Jared Wilson.
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He had been openly struggling with depression for a while, and he actually worked to help
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other people who were having suicidal thoughts or who were kind of stuck in a rut of a depressive
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The only connection that I have to him is that he followed me on Twitter.
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And after seeing the number of lives that he touched that have spoken out about the impact
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that he had on them, after looking at pictures of his beautiful family, it just kind of broke
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Of course, any suicide, no matter who it is, is absolutely heartbreaking.
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But just seeing the influence and the profound impact that he had on so many people in the
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name of Christ, to see someone like that take his own life, there's just another layer,
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I think the feeling that some people with depression may have seen an incident like this with Jared
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Wilson is, well, if a pastor, if a godly pastor could not withstand his depression, if someone
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so close to God who supposedly prayed, knew God's word, supposedly just because we don't
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know him personally, knew God's word, had accountability and community and family and purpose, someone
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who knew the truth and was sensitive to the Holy Spirit, if that person committed suicide,
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Am I going to be able to withstand my depression?
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I don't always feel like I have a purpose on this earth.
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How am I expected to hang on if someone like that couldn't?
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If that is you, know that I see you and I hear you and I'm with you in this episode.
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We are going to talk through this from, of course, a biblical Christian perspective.
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We like to say, oh, I'm so depressed about this or I'm so depressed right now when we
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are like mildly disappointed about something or temporarily discouraged.
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But depression is something that is much deeper, much longer lasting than that.
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I personally have not struggled with depression.
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So if at any point in this episode you would like to point something out to me, if you have
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struggled with it that you feel is inaccurate or is unfair, please, I welcome that.
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I have sat across from a friend who was very seriously committing suicide.
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And I remember the feeling that I had is an outsider looking in of just, uh, just how dark
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and how, uh, deeply she was into this state of absolute desperation and hopelessness.
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So I know from, again, um, an outside perspective, what a horrifying and dark place this is for
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people to be, even though I myself haven't personally experienced it.
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Uh, depression can be something that is circumstantial or it can have nothing to do with their circumstances
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So it can be because of trauma or tragedy or difficulty, something that has happened to you,
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like abuse in your life, either recently or a long time ago when you were a child, some kind
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of dire diagnosis that you've gotten or something that happened in your life, like the death
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Uh, it can also seem to have nothing to do with what's going on, nothing to do with anything
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It can just be this dark cloud that kind of comes over your mind when maybe you least expect
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it, that you desperately want to push away, but you don't know how, and you don't feel
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You try everything you can, you repeat the positive mantras, you rationalize yourself
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out of it, or you try to, and it's still, you feel like overtakes you.
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Sometimes, uh, you really feel like you just can't get out.
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Uh, this is the description that I have heard from those who have suffered in our suffering
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There are a lot of different Christian thoughts on depression.
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I am not the end all be all, or the foremost expert on this from a Christian perspective.
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All I know is what God's word says, what the gospel says, and I do feel that that is sufficient
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Uh, but some Christians are completely against medication.
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Some believers believe that a depression is somehow indicative of a spiritual sickness
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Some believe it has nothing to do with spirituality whatsoever.
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The truth, I think, is somewhere in between, depending on the person.
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What we know for sure as Christians is that there is always, there is always going to be
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So a lack of serotonin in the brain, for example.
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But because we are human beings with souls, and these two things cannot be separated, we are
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made in the image of God, we can never separate the spiritual from the physical.
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So that means that there will be both physical and spiritual aspects to coping with and healing
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That may mean taking medicine, which I believe can be or is a gift of common grace when used
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Uh, a gift of common grace means something that God has given everyone, regardless of whether
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So good food, nature, uh, medicine, it might mean, uh, a healing mechanism might mean exercise.
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It may mean changing how you eat, what you drink, your daily routine.
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Uh, all of these are known to affect our mental state.
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Um, but it will, without a doubt, this healing coping process with depression will also mean
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It will also mean steeping yourself in the word of God, uh, taking every thought captive and
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surrendering it to Christ, plugging into your church, finding a mentor, having accountability
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within a Christian community, uh, filling your mind and your time, uh, with coming up
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with ways to serve other people, outdoing one another and showing honor.
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Uh, why will it require such spiritual discipline?
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Because as we have said, even though there are physical aspects to depression, uh, it is ultimately
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a spiritual war because whether it is because of circumstances or because of chemistry, uh,
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Satan will use depression as an opening to feed you lies.
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He can use happiness too, by the way, he can use any mental state whatsoever to tempt you
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into idolatry or fear or control or lust or envy or worry.
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Uh, depression, because it can feel so dominant in someone's mind, uh, makes the sufferer vulnerable
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So if you are depressed, you feel hopeless, you feel purposeless, you might feel misunderstood,
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alone, uh, and Satan will do all he can to convince you, believer, that these lies are
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Uh, he will ask you the same deceptive question that he asked Eve in the garden of Eden, because
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even though Satan is cunning, he is not creative.
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He will ask you, did God really say, uh, did God really say that he will never leave you
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Did God really say that he is your ever present help in time of need?
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Does God really understand what you're going through?
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I mean, if God were really caring, if he were really loving, you might find yourself start
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thinking if he really sees me, if he really hears me, if he really hears me, if he
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is really all powerful and also good and compassionate and all of these things that the Bible says
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that he is, if he is who he says he is, why wouldn't he heal me?
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Uh, why wouldn't he, why wouldn't he let me escape from this?
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If he can take this away and he loves me, why wouldn't he?
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Uh, there's no good that's going to come out of this, out of me being depressed.
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There is no glory for him to be had in this, you might be thinking.
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Um, and Satan is there telling us, yes, you're absolutely right.
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And you might think, okay, well, maybe he's not who I thought.
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A good God certainly wouldn't do something like this or let something like this linger.
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So maybe the good God that I read about in the Bible doesn't even exist.
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And then suddenly, in a matter of minutes, maybe you have found yourself on the precipice
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of abandoning all your faith, wondering what life is about, wondering if there is any reason
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And you are right where Satan wants you to be, where he has worked very hard for you to be.
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Uh, Satan may not be able to read your mind, but he can push you down a spiral of desperation
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He will warp and manipulate and obscure the promises of God and the character of God until
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you no longer know what you believe until you no longer know what you have faith in.
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Uh, whether your depression, again, is circumstantial or chemical or both, this is Satan's goal.
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So when you are depressed and you are told to pray more, you are told to read your Bible
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more, you are told to take your thoughts captive more, to hand them over to the King of the
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universe so he can exchange them for truth, know that this is not meant to shame you.
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Uh, yes, there may be people who tell you that your depression is just because you're not
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trying hard enough and maybe, uh, they are trying to make you feel even worse about yourself.
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But when most of your fellow Christians give you a spiritual prescription, a biblical prescription
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for internal pain, when they encourage you in the word, try not to take offense.
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Uh, while medicine and counseling, I believe do have their place.
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And in certain cases can be extremely necessary and beneficial.
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These will never, ever produce any lasting good without Christ.
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Satan is powerful and he is not going to bow down to antidepressants.
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Ultimately we do, whether we struggle with depression or not, need the healing power of
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Uh, we can try to keep the symptoms at bay with certain mechanisms, but only Jesus heals the
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wounds of the heart and the soul, only Jesus and his word can stay our anxious thoughts and
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And now we need to know who this Jesus is, what his character actually is, what his power
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Uh, is he looking down from his throne, wondering when you're going to get it together?
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Uh, is he this unsympathetic, uh, schoolmarm chastising us when we just don't get it?
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Uh, is he a gal pal telling you exactly what you need to hear, stroking your ego and making
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Since then we have a great high priest who has passed through the heavens.
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Jesus, the son of God, let us hold fast to our confession for we do not have a high priest
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who is unable to sympathize with our weaknesses, but one who in every respect has been tempted
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Let us then with confidence draw near to the throne of grace that we may receive mercy and
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So Jesus is neither a buddy who tells you what you want to hear to feel better, or nor is
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he a ruler disconnected from the needs of his servants.
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He is an intercessor between God and sinful man by offering himself as a sacrifice on
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So to understand, to comprehend, to fully grasp, to feel for himself our weaknesses and
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And yet he overcame them because he was without sin.
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He who knew no sin became sin so that we could become the righteousness of God.
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And this empathetic intercessor has made it possible for us through him to approach the
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eternal God of the universe with confidence, with assurance, with boldness to do what?
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To receive mercy and grace and help in time of need.
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Instead of thinking, God, why would you do this to me?
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Maybe we think, wow, how undeserving am I to receive this kind of confidence and boldness
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How compassionate is our Father in heaven that he would give us such a gift in Christ when
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How merciful of him, not just to grant us salvation in Christ, which he never had to do, but to help
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How miraculous that Jesus left his throne, that he became flesh so that he could feel
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what we feel, so that he could be tempted the way that we are tempted, so he could be
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This is why 1 John 4 says, greater is he who is in you than he who is in the world, because
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that he already outsmarted all of Satan's schemes, because he resides in you, we have
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every reason to hope, every reason to stand strong.
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Ephesians 6 makes clear that Christians are not in a merely physical battle, no matter what
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it is, whether it's depression or whether it's persecution.
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We are battling against the rulers, against the authorities, against the cosmic powers over
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this present darkness, against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly places.
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And because of that, we are to put on the full armor of God that is characterized by
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truth, by righteousness, by readiness, by faith, by salvation, the Holy Spirit, prayer.
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Yes, this goes for those who are depressed, and this goes for those who are not.
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The Bible is very clear that you are not alone, that you are not misunderstood, that you are
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not purposeless, that you are not hopeless, that you have a Savior who knows every single
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part of you, every single nook and cranny of your heart, nothing is hidden from him.
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The Bible says that darkness is as light to him.
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There is no secret, no secret that you can keep from him.
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When he died on the cross for your sins, he knew every single transgression, every single
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slip up, every single mistake, every single word of blasphemy, every doubt, every worry,
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every thought of suicide, and he said to you, mine, this is mine, your struggle is mine, you
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are mine, you are mine forever. He said, I want all of your heart, all of your soul for all of
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eternity, no compromises, not because you are good or worthy or deserving, but because I am good and
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merciful and gracious. God is not spiting you with your depression. He is not punishing you. He's not
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playing a trick on you. God does not lie. He is not deceptive. He has not left you. He is not
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impatient with you. If you are in Christ, you are a child of God, and it is impossible, impossible
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for God to forsake you because it is not in his character. I do not have to have experienced
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thoughts of suicide or depression myself to know the character of God that I read in his word and to
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tell you these things for sure. We all need people who are in a different place than we are to tell us
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what God's word says. And if you forget these things, here is my encouragement to you. If you
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find yourself in that place of not believing this, don't let yourself sit in your doubt. There is this
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almost morbid gratification that all of us get from building on our worries. I understand because I will
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lay in bed at night and think about all of the conflicts and potential conflicts that I have in my
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life, all of the reasons to worry. It's almost like whack-a-mole. I rationalize myself out of one anxiety and
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then something else comes up. It's almost like my flesh is addicted to worry. And so instead, I mean,
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this happened actually just a couple of nights ago. I was building on all of my worries and finally I
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just had to let it go. And I just had to say, I am not giving my thoughts to Christ right now. I am not
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taking my thoughts captive and surrendering them to the God of the universe. Instead, I am gratifying my
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flesh by building on this anxiety and hoping that I will be able to control these situations how I want
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to. And that is sinful. That is wrong. So while I might not know exactly what you're going through,
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exactly what you feel, I can tell you that it does no good to sit in your doubt. It does no good to sit
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in that desperation. I have to tell myself, do not go to the next thought. Do not go down this spiral.
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Do not build on the foundation of fear that you have just laid for yourself in your own mind. Stop.
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Do not give credence to your paranoia. Instead, you have to preach the gospel to yourself.
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You have to preach it to yourself until you fall asleep at night. You have to preach it to yourself
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until it's all you can think about. You have to preach it to yourself relentlessly until you can't
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anymore. And when you can't, you call your friends. And when you can't, you call your pastor. And when
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you can't, you call your counselor or you listen to this podcast episode, if you have to, and you
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fill your mind with the gospel, which is that you were bought with a price by a good God who loves
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you. And if that was all that God ever did, if everything else were taken away from us,
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if we were depressed in a dark state of depression that we couldn't get out of for the rest of our
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lives, God would still be good because he sent his son to die for us and he didn't have to do that.
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The gospel is enough. The gospel is enough for you. That doesn't mean that all of a sudden you'll
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feel happy. It doesn't mean that all of a sudden you'll be in a good mood, but it does mean that it
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is sufficient to stay you and to help you persevere. Do not stay dwelling on your desperation.
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Do not get obsessed with self-help, with self-betterment. You will be frustrated. Instead, focus on Christ,
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on being obedient to him with your whole life, loving others when you feel like you can't.
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Because one thing that might sound harsh, but I think is important to say that we all who are
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biblical Christians know is true, is that depression does not excuse us from living a life of holiness.
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It doesn't excuse us from the need for repentance. It doesn't excuse selfishness or complacency.
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The fight might be a little bit harder, but it's not an excuse to give up. The world certainly will
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not tell you this. It will tell you the opposite. The world has garbage answers for every single
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problem that you have. It will tell you that healing is found in indulging in whatever you want,
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whatever will give you gratification right now. And I'm not saying that happiness is bad and things
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that make you happy right now are necessarily bad, but the world will tell you to go wherever you can
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to find that gratification, even if it will end up hurting you in the long run. What the world will
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offer you in terms of healing from depression is self-love. That's all it's got is self-love,
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which is of course, some kind of circular argument that will end in torture, which is why you should
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not buy it. You will end up frustrated and even deeper in your depression because you will wonder
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why, even though all of these awesome people are telling you to love yourself more, why you can't
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muster up the strength to do that. You have followed the five steps to a happier life. You have read every
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self-help book. You have toned your arms. You have cleaned your room. You have washed your face and you
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still can't love yourself. You still don't look in the mirror and see Beyonce. That is because we were not
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created to be healed by self-love and self-care. We were created to be healed by Jesus and his provision
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for us. You were not made to rely on yourself. None of us were. We are interdependent creatures.
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We are made to rely on our creator. We were made to rely on relationships as well. So don't beat yourself
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up if you can't repeat that positive mantra and feel better right away. Don't get mad at yourself when
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the self-empowerment talks that you give yourself in the morning don't make you feel any better. That
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is not the fuel our souls were meant to run on. It's like putting diesel in a car that doesn't take
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diesel. You are going to run for a little bit. You'll be okay for a few miles, but ultimately you're
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going to stall out. So shifting just a little bit, what of pastors who commit suicide? What does this mean?
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Does this mean that there's not hope for the rest of us? Does this mean that there's no hope for
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lay people who are struggling with depression? Unfortunately, pastors committing suicide happens
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often. I assume, I assume, I don't know every person's story, of course, but I assume part of
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it has to do with isolation. I think a lot of pastors also feel the pressure to put up a facade of
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happiness and kind of got it togetherness and end up crippling under that weight, which I think most of
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us probably would. I think it's important to remember that pastors are human beings, that they are
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vulnerable to Satan's attacks. They are susceptible to illness. I do believe that pastors who are going
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through seasons of depression and anxiety need reprieve. They need to take a step back. They need
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rest. They need elders who step in and say, hey, look, it's time for you to take a break, to allow us to
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help you. Pastors have to set an example for their churches in this because this is the right
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thing to do. And teachers have different pressures and different responsibilities than the rest of us
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do. I know that's not always easy for elders to do because depression likes to hide behind a smile
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sometimes. That's why church leaders and the rest of us, just friends and family members, need to pry,
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for lack of a better word. We need to nag. We need to ask questions. We need to check in. I'm speaking to
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myself as I'm saying this because Lord knows I'm imperfect in this arena. We need to be the body
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of Christ. If your right hand is hurt, what do you do? You let your right hand rest and you let your
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left hand take over. And that's what we have to do for members of the body, our brothers and sisters
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in Christ who are hurt. We take over. We carry the weight. We do the work. We share their burdens.
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This is another reason. I know we talk about this so much, the culture of self-love, because it's so
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pervasive and toxic. This is another reason why the culture of self-love will end in nothing but
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narcissism and further depression and suicide. Because if all of us are only concerned with
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loving and serving ourselves, there is no one to shoulder our burdens with us. There is no empathy
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for the pain of others. No one willing to inconvenience themselves, sacrifice their time and energy on your
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behalf because they were told that they shouldn't have to worry about that. Then we are truly alone.
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That's not how God created human beings to work. That's not how he created us to live and to flourish.
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I do want to answer this question that so many people have asked. Is a Christian who commits suicide
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going to heaven? And I was really confused by this question at first. I was like, where did this,
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where did this come from? I don't, I don't understand where people are even getting this idea. I've never
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heard that before, but then I thought about it and I kind of understand the reasoning I think that
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people have behind it. Suicide is a sin. It is a sin because murder is a sin and suicide is self
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murder. God values human beings much higher than that. So would a true Christian, I think probably
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the reasoning goes, would a true Christian who has the Holy Spirit inside of them commit murder and that
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be the last thing they do. They're unable to repent from that. I just don't believe, according to what
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I read in God's word, my opinion doesn't really matter. God's word matters. And so if you feel that
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I'm wrong on this, according to scripture, please let me know. But I don't feel, according to what I've
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read in God's word, that in the case of suicide, that giving into this temptation as you are clouded by
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depression means that you are condemned to eternal damnation. I just don't, I don't see that in
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scripture. It's a dark moment. It is the wrong thing to do in every case. And yet for the Christian,
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I do see in God's word that this is still covered by the blood of Christ, that there is still grace
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and forgiveness. Is it a tragedy? Is there, are there going to be negative and terrible consequences,
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is not just for his kids, but probably for generations to come because of the trauma that
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his family has been, um, has, has experienced because of this? Yes, of course there are earthly
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consequences for things that God forgives us for and gives us grace for. But I simply don't see any
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scriptural support for saying that this is the sin that causes people who proclaimed Christ, who called
00:26:51.080
upon the name of the Lord, who were saved, uh, to go to hell. I just don't see any scriptural support for
00:26:56.260
that. Again, if you want to send me an email with a contra opinion, you can, you can do that. Uh, but
00:27:02.400
please bring scripture to support that. I, I just don't, I just don't have any understanding of how
00:27:09.360
God's grace could work that way. So I hope that this was an encouragement to you. There's so much more
00:27:16.060
that we could talk about and no doubt that there are people out there who know a lot more about this
00:27:21.440
subject than I do. But the beautiful thing about being a Christian is that we know the answer to
00:27:27.400
everything. It's not easy, but it is very simple that the gospel is sufficient for whatever circumstance
00:27:33.720
that we are in. And that is not meant to say that if you are struggling, that you just don't
00:27:40.060
believe enough, but there is a place for encouragement from people who aren't in your situation,
00:27:46.620
uh, to preach to you, to tell you what's true, to just remind you, because our, our minds can play
00:27:53.320
tricks on us. The Bible says that our hearts are desperately wicked. Who can understand it? So when
00:27:58.100
you hear people say, just follow your heart, um, well, that's going to lead you into some really dark,
00:28:03.800
into some really bad places. We shouldn't be following our hearts. The Bible also says Proverbs,
00:28:08.960
I think it's three, five through six is to lean not on your own understanding, but in all of your ways,
00:28:13.520
acknowledge him and he will make your path straight. We are not able to make our path straight on our
00:28:18.800
own. We're not even supposed to rely on our own understanding because it is so faulty. And when
00:28:23.960
you are in a dark, depressive, vulnerable, desperate state, uh, Satan has, has no regard for that. He is not
00:28:33.240
a respecter of persons. He has no respecter of persons in that he is willing to trap anyone in lies.
00:28:39.460
He wants to deceive anyone. And gosh, if he can get someone to the point of believing that their
00:28:44.380
life is completely purposeless, that their existence doesn't bring any glory to God. If he can stop
00:28:50.580
someone from sharing the gospel, if he can stop someone temporarily from believing, uh, the gospel
00:28:56.440
for themselves, and that's what he's going to do, that brings him, um, I, I won't say joy, but that
00:29:02.480
brings him glee. That is what he, um, is set to do is to deceive. Uh, Jesus said that that is in his
00:29:09.820
nature to lie. He is in the father of law. He is the father of lies. He can't do anything except for
00:29:15.140
deceived. So if you find yourself believing something that you know is not supported by God's word, you
00:29:20.100
need to ask yourself, is this a lie from Satan? And if so, you need to stop thinking it. Don't build
00:29:24.940
upon it. Don't go down the spiral of believing it because it's going to get you nowhere and is not
00:29:31.340
going to heal you. As always, if you have, uh, questions, if you have comments, please email me
00:29:38.140
ally at the conservative millennial blog.com. Uh, you can message me on Instagram as well. I would
00:29:44.400
love to hear from you. I would love to hear also what is encouraging to you when you are in the States,
00:29:50.620
if you have struggled with this before, if there are verses or passages or quotes based on scripture
00:29:57.140
that have helped pull you through and kind of shown you the light at the end of the tunnel,
00:30:01.380
I would love to hear that. And maybe I can share it so that other people, uh, can benefit from it as
00:30:06.840
well. Thank you guys so much for listening. You guys mean so much to me. I love hearing from you
00:30:12.680
and just kind of having this friendship with you guys. You have no idea how much I value this and
00:30:18.360
value the time that we get to spend together. I hope that you guys have a great rest of your
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Monday and I will see you back here on Wednesday.