Ep 19 ｜ Social Justice Isn't Real Justice
Episode Stats
Summary
In this episode, Allie talks about the growing trend of social justice advocates in the Christian church and why this is not a good thing. She also explains the difference between social justice and actual justice and why it s a problem.
Transcript
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Hello, everyone. Welcome to Relatable with Allie Suckey. This is the first time I'm doing a second
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show in one week, which is really exciting because of you guys, Relatable went from just
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one podcast every Wednesday to two podcasts a week, one on Tuesday and one on Thursday.
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And for those of you who subscribe to CRTV.com, which you should definitely do, you also get to
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see my face while I'm talking, which I know is really exciting. And you get to see how much I
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talk with my hands, which if you don't know, is a really obnoxious amount. So that's a really good
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thing. Thank you guys to list for listening. I'm really excited to do this even more than I was
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doing before. Okay, on Tuesday, we talked news Trump's Supreme Court pick Roe v. Wade, the abortion
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debate, etc. But today I want to go the more topical route, which I do pretty regularly on this show.
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So today we're going to talk about this trend of social justice that is seeping into the Christian
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church in America. And I am going to make the case for why this is not a good thing. And in fact,
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I'm biblical. And at the end, I'm also going to answer one question that one of you sent to me
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on Instagram. For those of you who are joining this podcast for the first time ever, welcome. This is a
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show that analyzes relevant topics in politics and culture from a Christian conservative perspective.
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We also talk theology. And if you want a few buzzwords to describe what I believe, I'm a reformed
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Protestant. So that's what you can expect from me. And today we're kind of talking about all three of
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those things. So we're talking politics, we are talking culture, and we are talking theology a little
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bit. I've already talked extensively about progressivism in the church, this, this rise in
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social justice and this myth that Jesus was some kind of first century Bernie Sanders and the ignorance
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of a lot of my fellow millennials who are latching on to this trend. But I want to talk about social
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justice. Again, I already did a whole episode dedicated to this, but this is going to be a little
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bit different, a little bit more nuanced. I specifically want to talk about the difference
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between social justice and actual justice, because again and again, I see this coming up in Christian
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conversations and particularly in regards to racial inequality, gender roles, roles, immigration.
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I promise you that you are going to get something new out of this episode than past episodes I've done
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on progressivism and social justice because we're going to come from a different angle. So first,
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in order to have this conversation, we have to actually define social justice. And for that,
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we can turn to good old-fashioned Google and Wikipedia, which tells us that social justice is
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justice in terms of the distribution of wealth, of opportunities, and privileges in society. So
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under this would include things like racial equality, gender equality, socioeconomic equality.
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You have probably all heard the term social justice warrior. These are the people who are protesting
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racism, things like police brutality, the gender wage gap, the income gap between the poor and the rich,
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immigration policy, things like that. They're typically self-avowed feminists, and almost all of them
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are on the left side of the political aisle. And more often than not, they vote Democrat.
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And that's because in general, social justice advocate, uh, advocates for, uh, the government
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ensuring racial inequality, income inequality, or ensuring that racial inequality, income inequality,
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gender inequality, et cetera, is actually fixed. Um, now you're probably asking a very smart question
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at this point. And that question would be what actually qualifies as justice when it comes to
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equality. What qualifies as social justice? Uh, some of the issues, social justice proponents care
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about like sexism and racism, they seem really abstract. How do you actually define what justice
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looks like in those areas? And that's a really good question, but the answer is really complicated
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because you really can't. That is a huge problem with social justice that it doesn't seek actual
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justice as we know it. Um, Thomas Sowell writes about this in his book, Quest for Cosmic Justice.
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I highly recommend it. Um, he describes the push for social justice as actually cosmic justice because
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it's this ethereal thing that doesn't actually have a grounding in reality, in logic or earthly justice
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systems. Uh, there's no way to accomplish this kind of social justice or cosmic justice. The elevation of
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one class of people, uh, without putting down another class of people, consequently taking away
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their justice. Uh, cosmic justice is based on kind of unwritten rules of who is more oppressed than
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someone else and who based on their oppression should be given more help. Um, so here is the direct
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quote from, from soul. He describes it like this cosmic justice is not about the rules of the game.
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It is about putting particular segments of society in the position that they would have been, uh, but
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for some undeserved misfortune, this conception of fairness requires that third parties must wield power
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to control outcomes, overriding rules, standards, or the preferences of other people. The quest for
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cosmic justice focuses on one segment of the population and disregards the interest of
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others who nevertheless pay the price for the decision made. So he puts it way better than I
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could. So we're just going to expound on that. And the main point of what he's saying is social
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justice is not real actual justice. It is not equity, um, because it demeans one group of people for the
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sake of another group of people based on some arbitrary objective standard of righteousness. So for
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example, for a practical example, take illegal immigration. Um, actual justice says that if you break the
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law, there are consequences and in the United States of America, the consequence of crossing the border
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illegally is deportation and or criminal prosecution. Uh, there are ways to cross over
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legally. You can seek asylum as a refugee. You can obviously apply for citizenship and wait in line, but
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crossing illegally has consequences both for you, uh, the perpetrator of the crime and also your family. If
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you, if you brought a family with you, but social or cosmic justice advocates, uh, which are, who are
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usually members of the progressive left, uh, hold that the consequences of breaking the law by illegally
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immigrating are inherently unjust, uh, because the people crossing over are according to progressives
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oppressed. And because of their oppression, they should be allowed into our country and should not be
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punished. So their advocacy of legalizing all undocumented immigrants isn't actually based in any
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idea of actual justice or some other interpretation of legality. It's based on an abstract, obscure,
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subjective definition of justice that they have deemed superior to actual justice, which would be if you
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commit a crime, there is punishment. Um, actual justice would also consider the flip side to
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unconditionally allowing all migrants into the country, which is what many on the left are
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advocating for. Uh, actual justice considers the dangers of human trafficking, of, uh, drug smuggling,
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of the rape and murder that happened at the border of MS 13 gang members infiltrating illegally of the
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crimes that are committed by illegal immigrants of the limited amount of resources we have that are being
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used by illegal immigrants. The tax dollars going to support illegal immigrants, things that negatively
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affect both illegal immigrants themselves and the citizens of this country. Uh, there seems to be
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no compassion or consideration of the people in America who are negatively affected by illegal
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immigration. Why is that? Because Americans, we don't have as many oppression points as illegal
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immigrants do. Americans are viewed by social cosmic justice advocates as inherently privileged and
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therefore considering our welfare is less important than considering the welfare of illegal immigrants.
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And honestly, I couldn't even explain or break down the reasoning behind that if I tried. And I highly
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doubt proponents of that progressive themselves would actually be able to either. There is this really
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complex thing called the social justice equation, or at least I'm going to call it that. And it measures
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how many points you have based on your country of origin, on your socioeconomic status, your skin color,
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your gender, your sexual orientation, your family background, etc. And it considers all of these factors
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in distributing you your oppression points. So the more of a minority you are, the greater number of
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oppression points you have, which determines three things. A, how much help you should get from the
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government, B, how much compassion you deserve, and C, how much your opinion actually matters.
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So for example, if you can't tell, I am a white woman. I am also American. I am a Christian. I was
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raised by two hardworking, successful parents in the suburbs of Dallas. So I have like maybe one
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oppression point, maybe. And I get one just because I'm a woman. And as a woman, you know, I've probably
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been a victim of misogyny at some point in my life and discrimination. Therefore, I have some
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legitimacy in the social and political conversation. And the government should be helping me out by
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ensuring I have absolutely everything a man has, no matter what. But a white male with my exact same
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upbringing. So my husband, for example, with a very similar upbringing, he has my husband has zero
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oppression points because not only did he live a life of privilege growing up, he also, according
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to the left, has never faced any unfair treatment at all his whole entire life. Thus, my husband's
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opinion, my dad's opinion, my brother's opinions, no matter what they've gone through, their opinions
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don't matter and their plights are not considered. But see, here's the thing. For the black,
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Muslim, transgender, pansexual person who is also an illegal immigrant, by the way, well,
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he slash she has tons of oppression points, just a plethora of oppression points. The government
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should be specifically and deliberately helping to make sure that person has all the same everything
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that everyone else has and should be punishing people who treat that person any differently than
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anyone else. And that person also has more legitimacy on social and political matters because
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of his or her oppression. They are like top tier oppression and therefore social justice advocates
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assert that their welfare, that person's welfare matters way more than the cisgender straight white
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male. Does that make any sense to you? No, of course it doesn't because it doesn't actually make any
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sense, period. The mental hoops, the mental gymnastics that you have to actually do, jump through to
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construct cosmic or social justice or absolutely. It's absolutely insane. And honestly, they change
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every day. So, for example, there was a pride parade. I think it was in the UK, if I'm remembering
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correctly, this past weekend. And lesbians who were marching in the parade were protesting the inclusion
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of trans people in the movement because they feel like trans people are obscuring lesbian identity.
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So, I'm having a hard time keeping up with what is actually more woke these days. The delegitimizing
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of trans people for the sake of lesbian visibility or the legitimizing of trans people. I don't know.
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Does anyone really know? Will anyone ever really agree on that? I don't think so. Probably not.
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Because progressivism and social justice always eats itself. It does. It's self-contradictory because
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it's based on an idea of justice that is not real. It's entirely subjective. It is illogical. It
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identifies people by their assumed oppression and grants them both legitimacy and empathy
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based on that assumption. It categorizes people by their various levels of victimhood. It doesn't look
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at people as individuals, but instead it lumps people together based on race, based on sexuality,
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sexual orientation, socioeconomic background. It is patronizing. It reduces a person to the most
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superficial things about them and says, this is all that matters. And while it's true, it's very true
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that certain groups of people in this country have faced injustice. There's no doubt about that.
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Black people were slaves. The Japanese were sent to internment camps. Women didn't have a right to vote.
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Native Americans were treated maliciously at one point. But the fact is, that's no longer the case.
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Now, that's not to say that no injustice exists, but many people believe, and I agree on some of
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this. For example, that the criminal justice system unfairly criminalizes nonviolent drug
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offenses. That might be true. There are instances of police brutality against Black people and against
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white people, by the way. And of course, racists and sexists exist in this country. They always will.
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Because guess what, guys? We live in a fallen world, if you haven't noticed that already. People are
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stupid. People are sinful. They will always be that way. But the fact of the matter is, we simply do not
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have a problem with systemic discrimination against minorities in this country. Sexual minorities,
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gender minorities, whatever it is, we just don't. The stats just aren't there. So, for example,
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a big sticking point, and I know I don't really have enough oppression points to be talking about
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this, but that's OK. I'll go for it anyway. A big sticking point for the social justice crowd
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is racial inequality. And while I completely adamantly agree that any instance of racism is
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awful and condemnable, I completely disagree. But I completely disagree with this progressive
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notion that minorities in America, particularly Black people in America, are still suffering from
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the after effects of slavery and that we as a nation have made no improvements since the civil
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rights era. That is the argument that they use in social cosmic justice circles, that the government
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needs to do more to ensure equality for Black people. But to cite Thomas Sowell again, who, by the way,
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is African-American himself, if you didn't know that, the decline of Black employment,
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the rise in Black poverty and the deterioration of the Black family didn't start happening
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until the 1960s. Before that, Black people, in a lot of ways, like, for example, in labor force
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participation, were a lot better off and doing a lot better than white people. And we don't have to go,
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and that's before the 1960s, and we don't have to go into all of the possibilities today about why,
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since the 1960s, income and quality of life and equality between whites and Blacks
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has increased since the 1960s. But we're pointing out that if we're going to make a case that our
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government system has aided in oppressing the Black community, then you're going to have to look
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decades after slavery, a long, a long time after slavery, after the Civil Rights Act of 1964, even.
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The facts just don't support that slavery is the reason for racial inequality today.
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And most people on both sides of the aisle used to know and accept that. Going back to the study that I
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cite all of the time, the Pew study on the growing partisan divide in America. In 1994, when given
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this statement, Blacks who can't get ahead in this country are mostly responsible for their condition,
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53% of Democrats agreed and 66% of Republicans agreed. Now, you would think that by 2017,
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23 years later, that both of those numbers would go up. Opportunities abound, wealth abounds. We have a
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Black president for eight years who constantly highlighted racial discrimination and said that
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he was going to save the Black community. But that didn't happen. I mean, among Republicans,
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it did. That number did rise by 11 points to 77%. But among Democrats, it dropped by 25%. So more than ever,
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over the past 23 years, at least, Democrats believe that Black people are not responsible at all for their
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condition. And the further irony is that that number changed the most while Barack Obama was
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president. In fact, that same study shows that Democrats moved to the left on almost every issue,
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immigration, guns, welfare. And most of this happened during Obama's presidency. Obama was really the
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first president to legitimize social or cosmic justice, to give credence to intersectionality,
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to highlight racial inequality, victimization and oppression. This is why people called him the great
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divider. And while I'm sure he didn't intend this, I'm giving him the benefit of the doubt there,
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we grew further apart than ever during his presidency than ever before. And that's not because primarily
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because of conservatives. While conservatives stayed about the same on most issues, Democrats
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have moved to the left, embracing these abstract social justice ideas that have very little grounding
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in reality and don't manifest themselves in actual justice. The push for gender equality, for example,
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is demonstrated in greater access to abortion or a push for greater access to abortion, free birth
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control and closing the gender wage gap. Well, people already have access to free or really cheap birth
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control, especially if you have Medicaid. Abortion kills another human being. So it's not just and
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definitely doesn't ensure equality. The gender wage gap is already closed. It actually just considers
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factors other than gender. If you look at the closed gender wage gap like job title, experience, etc.
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That gap is completely negligible. The uncontrolled wage gap is what people are talking about. That's what
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progressives and feminists cite, the 77 cents on a dollar. But that doesn't take into consideration
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that women work different jobs and work different hours than men do. Really, all that wage gap tells
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us is that men and women probably have different priorities and different life choices. Affirmative
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action is an example of social or cosmic justice, giving an upper hand to one group of people based on
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an arbitrary standard of injustice and discriminating against another group of people because you have
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subjectively decided that they don't deserve the same shot. This is not actually a fair equation.
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It is not actually just it is based on some abstract view of right and wrong based on illogical ideas.
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Also, the push for fully validating complete and total separation of sex and gender, despite the fact,
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despite the fact that biology, the sociology, anthropology, all the ologies tell us that the vast majority of the
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times sex determines your gender. But we are told by the left that we must acknowledge the
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differentiation between sex and gender because transgender people are a minority. And as such,
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they have lots of oppression points. So we have to bow down to them as people who don't have any
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oppression points. Again, social justice is not based in reality. It is not based on actual justice.
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It is based on this idea of intersectionality, the oppression Olympics. Some call it neo-Marxism,
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class warfare. It does not have a logical basis. So when I hear Christians in particular talking about
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the importance of social justice, I'm like, well, let's clarify this. What do you actually mean?
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Because all justice really is social. So if by fighting for social justice, they just mean pleading
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the cause for those who are truly being treated unjustly, like women who are being sex trafficked,
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for example, then I would say, well, that's just justice. And that's great. God is a God of
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justice. And fighting for actual justice is a duty of Christians. God has a lot to say in the Bible
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about the poor, about the powerless, about the sojourner, the victim, the lonely, the widow.
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There is no doubt that we are to push for and enact justice as followers of Christ. But what I'm finding
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is that many Christians who say they're fighting for social justice are actually fighting for cosmic
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justice, just like everyone on the left. They are seeking, uh, they are seeking to use these
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incalculable, uh, complex, illogical equations to decide what's just and what's not. They're jumping
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on everything progressives are open borders, egalitarianism, intersectionality, racial reconciliation.
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And listen, I'm not saying every single facet of all of these things are bad, but we would be wise
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to recognize where they're actually coming from and what they actually mean and pause to consider
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whether or not Christians who are jumping on this bandwagon are considering if they're fighting for
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actual justice or leftist cosmic justice. Um, I am for empathy for the immigrant, but I also recognize
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the danger of illegal immigration and recognize that we have to secure the border to protect the lives of
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immigrants and our own. Um, I am for having conversations about repairing our immigration
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system, uh, sorting out the backlog of immigration cases, streamlining the process for people to be
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granted asylum, uh, to get work permits or to come here legally. Um, also I've said in the past,
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I think the most Christ-like thing to do once an illegal immigrant is here is to love them, to serve
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them, to help them find a way to stay here legally, definitely not to ostracize them, but jumping on the
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open borders train, the amnesty train without considering the repercussions of that for people
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in our own country, to me is not wise. And it's also not compassionate. It's not actual justice.
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Um, I am also adamantly against racism and discrimination. Like I've said so many times,
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apparently you have to say that explicitly these days, racism, white supremacy, all of it is
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antithetical to the gospel. It has no place in the body of Christ, but I am also not for this idea of
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racial reparations, which I heard spouted at the MLK 50 conference earlier this year,
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which I see implied on the gospel coalition site, which I still love some of their articles,
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but come on, we know they're getting more progressive, um, by certain it's some of their
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writers. Um, but I'm seeing this particularly also in female Christianity, this idea of racial
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reparations. It means that white people should make up for the injustice of their ancestors committed
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via slavery, Jim Crow, et cetera. And again, it categorizes people by their supposed oppression
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based on the color of their skin and points fingers at people for sins that they didn't commit.
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Now we should all condemn racism. We should call out real examples of inequality, um,
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when they actually do exist, but to pretend racial reconciliation is the preeminent issue of our time
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and that the top priority of God distract, uh, that, that it's the top priority of God. It actually
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distracts us from the true gospel, which says in Christ, there is not slave nor free nor male nor
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female June or Greek. Uh, Jesus did not come to reconcile the races to each other. He came to reconcile
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all races to himself. And it is that gospel that changes our hearts towards people that don't look
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like, or think the way that we do. It is that message that unifies us and eradicates hate,
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not the message that all white people should feel guilty for racism and take a backseat while all
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minorities take the reins. That's not going to help things. It's not going to help to make diversity,
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the number one qualification for a healthy church, which is absolutely the trend right now.
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Diversity is a good, beautiful thing, but it is not an indication of the health of a church.
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Um, I don't think that meets any definition of actual justice. And I don't see that exemplified in
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the Bible either. Um, I am against misogyny and sexism. I'm a woman. I talked about Paige Patterson
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on a previous episode, former head of the SBC and his horrible treatment of women and how wrong that
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was. Um, I sure as heck don't like to be patronized. So I think that we should call out condescension and
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discrimination against women within the body of Christ. But the answer to misogyny and sexism
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within the church is not egalitarianism, which is the current push. Egalitarianism is this idea that
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men and women should have the same roles in the church and in marriage. And I'm sorry, but that's
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not biblical. So that's definitely not God's idea of justice. And I definitely don't think that we
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need to be jumping on the whole, uh, reproductive rights thing as Christians. And y'all know how I
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feel about that. Uh, abortion goes against everything God is and stands for. So I think that argument goes
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without saying, um, so I just want to issue a word of warning to Christians who claim to also be social
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justice advocates. Does your definition of justice match God's definition of justice or any logical
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definition of justice, which inherently would be God's definition of justice, since that's the only
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valid one that actually exists. Or are you just advocating for big government to swoop in as a
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savior to people you assume are oppressed based on some baseless idea handed to you by progressives?
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Um, Christian social justice activists have good intentions. I'm sure, uh, God does call us to love
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and clothe the sojourner. God calls us to help the orphan and the widow. God calls us to take care of
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the poor. God calls us to judge without partiality. I believe he hates racism and discrimination. He hates
00:25:59.360
mistreatment of women or anyone. Uh, these are all true biblical principles, but number one,
00:26:04.020
these are things he calls us to do, not simply the government. And number two, these things aren't
00:26:08.780
social cosmic justice. This is actual justice, actual compassion, actual empathy. The justice
00:26:14.140
that God calls us to is to comfort the oppressed, but he doesn't call us to devalue everyone who
00:26:20.720
doesn't share the same oppression. That's not real justice. That's not real equity. That is not
00:26:25.620
equality. Now, for example, I'm a hardcore pro-life advocate. That means that I believe in pushing for
00:26:32.860
legislation and supporting court decisions that restrict access to abortion while simultaneously
00:26:37.580
dedicating my own personal time to volunteering, to serving women and helping to make abortion
00:26:43.700
unnecessary and unthinkable. So I am not saying that we shouldn't push for humane policies or fight
00:26:49.020
for justice. As I've said, we should. What I am saying is that we need to examine whether or not
00:26:54.760
the things that we are advocating for are truly about justice, or are they just part of the
00:26:59.460
progressive agenda that demonizes straight white people and uplifts all minorities? I just don't
00:27:05.120
find justification for that in the Bible. Okay, that's it for now. That's my take on that. Like I said,
00:27:12.440
I've just seen a lot of conversations about social justice coming from Christians that I know in other
00:27:17.580
ways have good theology, and I just think that we need some clarity on that. I'm sure I'll do another
00:27:22.720
episode on it because people are talking about it more and more, it seems like. Okay, now I'm going
00:27:29.020
to answer a listener question sent to me via Instagram. I got a question about Deuteronomy
00:27:35.440
2.30, I think, or was it 3.20? No, I don't remember, but it was about Deuteronomy, and it was about
00:27:43.140
basically the hardening of people's hearts. This passage was about King Sihon, but we also see
00:27:51.040
God hardened the heart of Pharaoh. So what I would recommend, and this person had a question about
00:27:56.200
that. So the obvious question is, how can God harden someone's heart, but then hold them responsible for
00:28:03.420
the actions that they take? How can, for example, he, if you believe in predestination, how can he
00:28:10.060
predestine people to go to heaven or to go to hell to be saved or to be unsaved and still be a just God
00:28:17.100
that holds people responsible for the actions that they take? So I do encourage everyone to read
00:28:23.300
Romans 9 through 11 if you haven't already. Romans 9 addresses this very explicitly and even addresses
00:28:29.020
some of the logical questions that we have. God very clearly does predestine and choose people based
00:28:35.860
on nothing that they've done. Romans 9 says, Jacob I loved, Esau I hated, and this was before they were
00:28:41.320
born. It talks about the hardening of Pharaoh's heart through really no effort of Pharaoh besides
00:28:46.880
what he did after that. God absolutely chooses people before they were born and without any merit
00:28:55.340
of their own. So this is where the confusion lies. And the best way I can explain it is through
00:29:01.820
something called concurrence. It's a regular term, but it's also used theologically. And concurrence is
00:29:08.660
the idea that two things can happen at one time, even if they don't make sense. So those two things
00:29:13.820
that can happen if God hardens someone's heart or he ordains something to happen is that God is in
00:29:21.320
complete control. He is actively involved in everything. He ordains everything. There's nothing
00:29:27.080
that happens that is beyond his control. And simultaneously, human beings still have a will to make real
00:29:35.260
choices and their choices. And their choices do have real consequences. They're still held
00:29:42.500
responsible for their actions and their actions are punishable. We have to believe that both of
00:29:47.540
these things are true because God is all powerful, but we know that there are real consequences to
00:29:52.900
actions, both temporary consequences and eternal consequences for what we choose to do. But we also have
00:30:00.400
to realize that as we make these real choices that have real consequences, that nothing we do is actually
00:30:06.960
outside of God's control. So I can't completely make sense of it. And I think that's why it's, you know,
00:30:14.160
considered a mystery of our faith. But the Bible tells us that both things are true. And so because of that,
00:30:19.720
we kind of just have to reconcile through faith that that's reality simply because God says that it is.
00:30:25.600
So I hope that helped a little bit. I just realized that that's really similar to the question that I
00:30:30.440
answered last week about why God allows bad things to happen. So if you're curious about that, you
00:30:35.560
should go listen to that. Anyway, that's all for now. Make sure that you leave me a review if you want
00:30:42.060
to or send me an email if you have constructive criticism. Definitely subscribe to CRTV.com if you
00:30:48.100
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00:30:54.220
choose. If you don't want to, that's totally fine. Anyway, I'll see you guys next week. Bye.