Relatable with Allie Beth Stuckey - Ep 197 ｜ How to Be a Godly Woman in an Ungodly World

00:00:00.120 Hey guys, welcome to Relatable.

00:00:02.120 I am so excited about today's conversation.

00:00:05.800 So many of you have been asking me

00:00:07.900 to have this person on my podcast

00:00:11.460 because you love her, you follow her, you read her,

00:00:14.260 and she is awesome.

00:00:16.100 I gained so much insight and encouragement

00:00:17.840 from this conversation, and I know you will too.

00:00:20.740 Without further ado, Rachel, thanks so much for joining me.

00:00:25.560 Yeah, my pleasure.

00:00:27.140 Okay, I think that there are a lot of people

00:00:29.380 who are listening who know who you are,

00:00:31.520 who have read your books and follow you on Instagram

00:00:34.620 and on Facebook, but just in case,

00:00:37.460 will you tell everyone else who you are and what you do?

00:00:42.120 Yeah, my name is Rachel Jankovic.

00:00:44.380 I am a wife, mother of seven kids, live up in Idaho.

00:00:48.720 I'm very involved in our church,

00:00:51.420 our Women's Bible Reading Challenge,

00:00:53.340 which is the thing that I do.

00:00:55.060 I've written for mothers, mostly when I'm in that season,

00:00:58.680 I didn't ever mean to write parenting books.

00:01:01.820 That was not on my to-do list or a plan at all,

00:01:04.940 but God just sort of threw that at me,

00:01:07.340 and that happened.

00:01:08.380 And then most recently, I've written a book called You Who,

00:01:10.580 which is all about identity in Christ,

00:01:13.220 the Christian woman.

00:01:14.160 And on social media, you have something

00:01:16.980 that has become very popular.

00:01:18.900 You have, I think you call it pants on fire, right?

00:01:22.240 Where you call out a lie,

00:01:24.200 and you say what the truth is.

00:01:25.340 Can you explain what that is?

00:01:28.680 Yeah, that was, all these things are sort of connected,

00:01:32.180 but that is about my new book, You Who,

00:01:34.760 which where I am really ripping off of that passage

00:01:37.540 in Colossians about how you're being deceived

00:01:40.680 by worldly philosophies.

00:01:42.020 You're trading these wonderful riches

00:01:44.860 of the Christian faith for just cheap junk,

00:01:47.800 which I see Christian women doing all over the place.

00:01:51.100 And so because I wrote this book,

00:01:54.760 and You Who is more the beginning of it,

00:01:56.760 talks about the philosophical background

00:01:58.480 of why we believe what we believe

00:02:00.280 and why we haven't evaluated what we believe.

00:02:02.760 Like we just have inherited a lot of our unbiblical ideas

00:02:06.680 about the self.

00:02:08.100 And then the second half is more trying to talk about

00:02:10.580 what a Christian identity should be like.

00:02:12.660 But in the discussion with people

00:02:14.560 after they had read some of it,

00:02:16.260 a lot of people would say like,

00:02:17.460 oh my goodness, I started noticing this.

00:02:19.880 You said that this is everywhere

00:02:21.400 and you're pointing it out.

00:02:22.440 And then people would start sending me things like,

00:02:24.680 you know, here's a poster from my gym

00:02:26.600 and I noticed it's a lie, you know,

00:02:28.300 or I saw this and I thought that's a lie.

00:02:30.840 And so I just thought it would be

00:02:32.760 a fruitful conversation to continue,

00:02:35.000 which is kind of talking about the things

00:02:37.540 that are all around us.

00:02:38.860 You know, like, oh, look at this.

00:02:40.300 It's a lie.

00:02:41.260 The pants on fire, I admit, just makes me laugh.

00:02:43.740 It's just emojis, pants on fire.

00:02:45.340 It's just a reference, obviously.

00:02:47.260 So it's liar, liar, pants on fire.

00:02:48.960 Right.

00:02:49.500 But all of those posts,

00:02:51.420 it's the hashtag department of hell no

00:02:53.220 is what I have used on all of those.

00:02:55.720 So, yes.

00:02:56.500 Okay.

00:02:56.920 And tell everyone your Instagram handle

00:02:59.080 so they can follow that or on Facebook.

00:03:02.340 It is Lizzie Jank.

00:03:03.840 It's L-I-Z-Z-I-E Jank.

00:03:06.380 Even though my name's Rachel,

00:03:07.500 that's just how it happens.

00:03:08.500 Yes.

00:03:08.960 Everyone, before this interview,

00:03:10.220 I had to clarify with her

00:03:11.380 because I hadn't actually met her,

00:03:13.460 talked about this before.

00:03:14.860 And I was really worried

00:03:16.900 that I was going to call her the wrong name,

00:03:18.500 but she clarified her name is Rachel Middleman.

00:03:20.900 I answer to anything.

00:03:22.340 Oh, anything.

00:03:23.440 So you have the freedom to call her

00:03:25.460 whatever you want to.

00:03:26.240 Okay.

00:03:26.540 So everyone definitely check out Yoohoo.

00:03:29.460 Excellent book.

00:03:30.540 It has a lot to do with this kind of,

00:03:34.840 I call it the culture of trendy narcissism.

00:03:38.240 So the self-love, self-care,

00:03:40.600 the selfishness is a virtue,

00:03:42.180 the self-sacrifice is a vice.

00:03:44.600 Kind of what led you,

00:03:46.060 and both of us have talked about this a lot,

00:03:47.940 and you do such an excellent job of analyzing it

00:03:50.040 from a biblical perspective.

00:03:51.320 What led you into that realm of talking about this?

00:03:54.620 What made you notice,

00:03:55.520 wow, this is a problem?

00:03:57.960 Yeah.

00:03:58.380 Well, when I first,

00:03:59.920 I mentioned that I wrote a book

00:04:01.160 called Loving the Little Years

00:04:02.160 when my kids were little.

00:04:03.580 My first four are very close in age.

00:04:06.300 And my first four were three and under

00:04:08.320 because we had twins in there.

00:04:09.720 So it was like,

00:04:10.840 it was a welcome to motherhood trial by fire time

00:04:14.040 that the Lord gave me.

00:04:15.660 And because of that,

00:04:17.160 I ended up writing a book

00:04:18.080 about really dealing with myself in those years.

00:04:21.300 You know, like how I found

00:04:23.100 that my attitude was the problem,

00:04:25.040 how God was like revealing

00:04:26.480 a lot of these things to me.

00:04:27.440 So that book I wrote,

00:04:29.940 and then I wrote another one called Fit and First.

00:04:31.740 Is there something that I think that this is true?

00:04:35.240 I think the most clingy,

00:04:36.780 needy audience in the world

00:04:38.780 is young mothers of kids.

00:04:41.840 Like the people who will most beg you

00:04:44.000 to like, help me, help me.

00:04:46.780 I need encouragement.

00:04:48.080 I need whatever.

00:04:48.960 They're very, very desperate and needy.

00:04:51.380 Right.

00:04:51.580 And I think that's a combination

00:04:53.320 of how hard the job is

00:04:54.680 with how undervalued it is in our society.

00:04:57.300 So you end up with women

00:04:58.980 just really needing help.

00:05:01.220 Because of that,

00:05:02.880 I, and in college,

00:05:04.020 I had studied the philosophy of the self.

00:05:05.780 I wrote a thesis

00:05:06.320 about the philosophy of the self.

00:05:08.400 So before I even became a mother,

00:05:10.200 I had thought through some of these issues.

00:05:13.560 And what happened over and over

00:05:15.100 is I would hear from women

00:05:16.120 with questions where I'd be thinking,

00:05:18.140 your problem is not your toddler.

00:05:20.240 Your problem is that you don't know

00:05:21.580 who you are, what you're for,

00:05:23.340 how to go forward through trials,

00:05:25.360 how to trust God in things

00:05:27.240 because you know he's actually your creator.

00:05:29.600 He's not, you're not self-creating.

00:05:33.520 That's ungodly philosophy that snuck in.

00:05:37.360 And so I just kept seeing it over and over.

00:05:39.980 And then you mentioned

00:05:40.800 it's very trendy right now.

00:05:42.380 So as it was starting to kind of pick up,

00:05:44.920 like if you're just listening to the world,

00:05:47.560 you're going to have no bearings

00:05:48.840 for how to go forward

00:05:50.120 as a mother of children in a home,

00:05:52.580 a difficult life in any way.

00:05:54.480 You're not going to know how to do it.

00:05:55.700 And so those things actually were connected

00:05:58.800 that I felt like, wait,

00:05:59.700 we need to back up and talk about,

00:06:01.680 not just for mothers, but just for women.

00:06:04.780 But we need to talk about how you,

00:06:07.860 like what you even are,

00:06:09.280 what you're for, who your God is,

00:06:10.920 and what that actually means in your daily life.

00:06:13.900 So that's why that happened.

00:06:16.120 They're all connected.

00:06:17.400 Yes, you're absolutely right.

00:06:18.940 Young moms, they need,

00:06:21.080 they feel like they need camaraderie.

00:06:23.100 They need community.

00:06:23.940 And if they find that even in the realm of cynicism

00:06:27.000 about being a mom or being a wife,

00:06:29.920 then they will go to that.

00:06:31.700 If that's the only kind of community

00:06:33.400 that they can find a group of women

00:06:35.000 who are talking about,

00:06:36.020 you know, how terrible it is to be a mom

00:06:38.500 or even joking about

00:06:39.900 how much of a burden their kids are,

00:06:41.720 they are going to go to that

00:06:43.040 because at least someone,

00:06:44.220 it might be commiseration,

00:06:45.460 but at least someone is empathizing with them

00:06:47.760 or at least someone is talking

00:06:50.020 about experiences that they have.

00:06:51.800 So I think that you're, you're right.

00:06:54.160 It's a foundational issue.

00:06:55.480 Can you tell us what it is like being a mom of seven?

00:06:58.940 I just have a five-month-old baby.

00:07:02.280 And so I'm certainly not an expert in motherhood,

00:07:04.760 but can you tell us some of the lessons

00:07:07.080 that you have learned being a mom of seven kids?

00:07:09.880 Yes, I think I would say that

00:07:13.160 I would say probably the overarching biggest lesson.

00:07:17.100 This is actually what I talk about.

00:07:18.800 They're connected.

00:07:19.480 I'll say more than one thing.

00:07:20.760 Yeah, go for it.

00:07:21.580 One is that it's always about me

00:07:23.520 in the sense that it's always my responsibility

00:07:25.640 to get right with God.

00:07:27.260 That if my children are being crazy in some way,

00:07:30.300 which they were when they were all toddlers and babies,

00:07:32.760 how could it not be crazy?

00:07:34.220 Right.

00:07:34.500 And that it was easy to feel like I'm suffering something

00:07:38.960 like letting my own attitude slip and slide

00:07:42.920 because of these children, you know,

00:07:46.360 like look at this mess

00:07:47.640 and recognizing that the only thing

00:07:49.920 that God really wanted me to have,

00:07:52.180 like clean and orderly with my own heart before him

00:07:55.100 and receiving these blessings, you know,

00:07:57.580 like I think I always wanted to have children.

00:08:00.760 I never thought I would have seven children,

00:08:02.740 but I always wanted to have children.

00:08:04.500 And I think that when I actually was in that phase

00:08:08.540 where it was genuinely hard,

00:08:10.640 like the transition was hard into having those kids

00:08:13.960 because it wasn't hard with one.

00:08:15.740 We had a shop downtown.

00:08:16.920 I was still catering things

00:08:18.160 and doing wedding flowers and doing things.

00:08:21.060 And then when we had the twins,

00:08:22.340 so now it was me with four babies.

00:08:24.200 You can't take four small children with you

00:08:26.880 to lead your normal life, you know?

00:08:28.820 It's like things are different.

00:08:30.500 Yeah.

00:08:30.820 And at that time,

00:08:32.380 I think that what I really was learning

00:08:34.480 is submission to God

00:08:36.120 and to what God had called me to

00:08:37.600 and to trust him

00:08:38.640 that this is the best thing I can be doing

00:08:41.120 because this is the good works

00:08:42.480 that he prepared for me in advance to walk in.

00:08:45.440 You know, like this is what I'm called to do.

00:08:48.160 And even if I can't see it being valuable today,

00:08:51.140 you know, that it will be.

00:08:53.160 And, you know, now I'm an old mom.

00:08:54.560 So now I have almost four teenagers,

00:08:57.900 you know, like now that crazy kids

00:09:00.780 turned into a much different kind of group.

00:09:03.720 And now I could see the fruit of those years

00:09:06.560 in a very different way

00:09:07.880 and see how my little,

00:09:09.980 like the things I would have wanted to grasp onto,

00:09:12.200 like my creativity,

00:09:14.040 my time for myself or my whatever,

00:09:17.440 that God has handed that back to me.

00:09:19.900 But it's like,

00:09:21.060 instead of this like little trickle of my creativity,

00:09:23.720 it's like this roaring river

00:09:25.200 that is so much bigger

00:09:26.460 than I ever could have done by myself

00:09:28.800 when I have all these

00:09:29.820 really incredible people around me

00:09:32.640 that I'm like,

00:09:33.780 the Lord called me not just to something better,

00:09:36.320 but to something better,

00:09:37.360 even in the same areas that I already left.

00:09:40.460 And it was just that submission to his calling

00:09:43.500 that has been so fruitful.

00:09:45.440 Is there one thing looking back

00:09:47.360 that you wish you would have cherished more

00:09:50.020 when they were in that little stage?

00:09:53.720 I don't know if it's like a season

00:09:57.640 or a moment or a lesson or something.

00:10:01.040 Yeah.

00:10:01.380 So I'm really,

00:10:02.460 I'm not a sentimental mom,

00:10:04.600 but I have to make that decision all the time.

00:10:07.160 Really?

00:10:07.440 That kind of surprises me.

00:10:08.800 Are you not a sentimental person at all

00:10:10.780 or just when it comes to motherhood?

00:10:13.760 No, what I mean by sentimental,

00:10:15.480 I mean like,

00:10:16.320 like I deliberately choose

00:10:18.120 to not get sad about the baby.

00:10:20.120 Gotcha.

00:10:20.480 That I don't think it's fruitful

00:10:23.560 to be sad about that.

00:10:25.260 Gotcha.

00:10:25.320 So what I think about,

00:10:26.960 I don't mean that I don't love it.

00:10:28.440 I do.

00:10:29.080 No, I know.

00:10:29.880 I knew that.

00:10:30.600 I'm like,

00:10:31.340 ah!

00:10:32.020 Yeah.

00:10:32.860 Why haven't I had a baby in four years?

00:10:35.060 How did I get old enough

00:10:36.040 to not be having babies?

00:10:37.180 Yeah.

00:10:37.400 Surprise.

00:10:39.580 But I,

00:10:40.440 it is that I just,

00:10:41.520 I often think of it as being,

00:10:43.020 you know,

00:10:43.320 God put eternity in our hearts

00:10:44.800 that we cannot hang on

00:10:46.720 to the blessings.

00:10:47.860 Yeah.

00:10:48.160 As they're coming.

00:10:49.240 And sometimes you want to be like,

00:10:51.080 oh,

00:10:51.300 this baby is being so sweet right now.

00:10:53.000 Like,

00:10:53.220 I want to remember this forever.

00:10:55.020 And it,

00:10:55.620 and it's like a month later,

00:10:57.340 you have no clue

00:10:58.020 that that even happens,

00:10:59.300 you know?

00:10:59.640 And it's,

00:11:00.320 and it is the same thing

00:11:02.060 that is trusting God

00:11:03.520 that my memory

00:11:05.120 is not what made that valuable.

00:11:07.080 It's not like I still,

00:11:08.640 this is the story

00:11:09.520 and I love these people

00:11:10.780 and I've loved them every day

00:11:12.220 since God gave them to me.

00:11:13.900 And that,

00:11:14.840 but I would say in light of that,

00:11:16.940 that I think all the time,

00:11:18.220 like they look so big to me now

00:11:20.160 and in another year,

00:11:21.140 I'm going to be looking back at this

00:11:22.560 is that,

00:11:23.540 oh my goodness,

00:11:24.260 can you believe

00:11:25.060 how little they were then?

00:11:27.200 Right.

00:11:27.860 So I guess I'm always

00:11:29.180 just trying to receive

00:11:30.180 the blessings

00:11:30.760 of the day today

00:11:31.940 with full gratitude

00:11:33.320 for what God has given me.

00:11:34.880 Right.

00:11:36.100 There is a lot of fear,

00:11:38.480 I would say,

00:11:39.560 among Christian moms

00:11:40.780 right now,

00:11:41.760 especially people like me

00:11:43.300 who are new moms.

00:11:44.280 We just look at

00:11:45.720 how culture has changed so much.

00:11:48.220 Not only do they devalue

00:11:50.020 parenthood

00:11:50.880 and children

00:11:51.920 from in the womb

00:11:52.920 to out of the womb,

00:11:54.280 but also just how,

00:11:57.840 just how basic truth

00:12:00.060 is being warped

00:12:01.580 into deceit,

00:12:03.360 whether it's gender,

00:12:04.320 whether it's

00:12:04.940 when life starts

00:12:06.040 and we're worried,

00:12:08.180 we're worried

00:12:08.780 about what's to come,

00:12:09.560 even knowing,

00:12:10.420 even knowing the eternal truth

00:12:11.840 of the fact that,

00:12:13.400 you know,

00:12:14.020 one day Jesus is going

00:12:15.160 to rule in perfect peace.

00:12:16.640 There's just a lot

00:12:17.380 of fear and anxiety.

00:12:18.660 So what do you say

00:12:19.460 to moms that are like,

00:12:20.540 I don't know,

00:12:21.480 I don't know what to do.

00:12:22.260 I don't know how to raise

00:12:23.080 my child in a godly way

00:12:24.560 amidst all of these

00:12:25.940 cultural changes.

00:12:28.600 Right.

00:12:28.960 OK, so a couple of things.

00:12:30.280 One is I would say

00:12:31.360 take that seriously

00:12:32.960 and don't try to keep

00:12:34.660 numbing yourself

00:12:35.640 to that reality

00:12:37.060 because I think

00:12:37.960 that's what everybody

00:12:39.000 wants to do

00:12:39.460 is comfort each other

00:12:40.680 instead of strengthen

00:12:42.160 each other,

00:12:42.820 instead of thinking like

00:12:43.960 as mothers,

00:12:44.640 we should look

00:12:45.860 at our children

00:12:46.380 and be able to say,

00:12:47.480 yeah,

00:12:47.720 we're all going to die.

00:12:49.280 Like all you kids

00:12:50.240 are going to die.

00:12:50.920 And when you like

00:12:52.140 and I talk with my kids

00:12:53.620 often about this,

00:12:55.120 which is funny,

00:12:55.660 but about the like

00:12:56.620 that there's no

00:12:57.900 that a Christian

00:12:59.220 need have no fear

00:13:00.300 of death

00:13:01.380 if you're right with God,

00:13:02.740 you know,

00:13:02.940 like that you will be

00:13:04.220 Lord willing

00:13:05.460 that they will be

00:13:06.240 strong and faithful fighters.

00:13:07.820 And if God has called them

00:13:09.160 to be a light

00:13:10.020 in a really dark time

00:13:11.540 and then I want them

00:13:13.920 doing that

00:13:14.600 with their whole heart,

00:13:15.560 you know,

00:13:15.780 like that I want them

00:13:16.700 so,

00:13:17.900 so in love

00:13:19.440 with God

00:13:19.940 and his purposes

00:13:20.840 that they are still

00:13:22.560 willing to be called

00:13:23.360 to whatever

00:13:23.840 he has called them to.

00:13:25.560 And I also think

00:13:26.500 so we try to give

00:13:29.280 a lot to our children.

00:13:30.620 We're trying to give them

00:13:31.660 a great education

00:13:32.800 and a lot,

00:13:33.720 like we are constantly

00:13:34.920 trying to make the home

00:13:35.820 joyful

00:13:36.360 and equip them

00:13:37.460 through laughter

00:13:38.760 to be in this

00:13:40.120 kind of time.

00:13:41.260 But in all of that,

00:13:42.860 we are thinking

00:13:43.800 in terms of the biblical,

00:13:45.440 that principle

00:13:46.600 to whom much is given,

00:13:47.800 much is required.

00:13:49.020 And we absolutely,

00:13:51.560 like it's our hope

00:13:53.020 for them

00:13:53.520 that God requires

00:13:54.420 much of them

00:13:55.120 and that he will put them

00:13:57.280 in places

00:13:58.300 where they can be influential

00:13:59.640 and where they can do

00:14:00.540 great things for the kingdom.

00:14:02.060 But that will never

00:14:03.300 be a painless position

00:14:04.560 that we're asking him

00:14:05.460 to put them in,

00:14:06.560 right?

00:14:06.840 You know,

00:14:07.060 like you're saying,

00:14:08.280 Lord,

00:14:08.560 use these children

00:14:09.480 for your glory.

00:14:10.980 And it's not about

00:14:12.140 us all having

00:14:12.900 a snuggly moment.

00:14:14.380 It's about us

00:14:15.260 faithfully serving

00:14:16.160 our God.

00:14:16.780 And all of that

00:14:18.160 sweetness of fellowship

00:14:19.640 and the home

00:14:20.940 and all these things

00:14:21.480 that we have

00:14:21.940 is a side blessing

00:14:23.620 of that offering.

00:14:25.100 You know what I mean?

00:14:25.460 Like it is something

00:14:26.500 God gives us,

00:14:28.140 but it's not the point.

00:14:30.060 Like the point

00:14:30.640 is not our fellowship,

00:14:31.920 our fun times at home.

00:14:33.400 The point is service

00:14:34.460 to God.

00:14:35.060 And he gives us

00:14:36.020 all that sweetness

00:14:36.720 in abundance

00:14:38.600 around that relationship,

00:14:40.760 if that makes sense.

00:14:42.000 Yes,

00:14:42.340 it does.

00:14:42.960 I would say

00:14:43.480 that the conversations

00:14:44.740 that are had

00:14:45.960 in the home

00:14:46.780 for equipping

00:14:47.800 that service to God

00:14:48.940 maybe are more complicated.

00:14:51.040 It's hard for me to know

00:14:52.060 since I wasn't a mom

00:14:53.040 20 years ago

00:14:53.920 and I am a mom today.

00:14:54.900 It seems like

00:14:55.480 the conversations

00:14:56.160 around things

00:14:57.660 like sex and sexuality

00:14:58.920 and gender

00:14:59.660 and marriage,

00:15:00.700 all these things

00:15:01.280 that maybe our parents

00:15:02.280 took for granted

00:15:02.940 because it was

00:15:03.820 more mainstream,

00:15:05.200 they're a lot more complicated.

00:15:06.680 They're a lot more

00:15:07.180 complex today.

00:15:08.760 So what advice,

00:15:10.020 what kind of practical advice

00:15:11.120 do you have

00:15:11.880 for moms and dads

00:15:14.100 who are trying

00:15:15.200 to have those conversations

00:15:17.160 with their kids?

00:15:20.100 Okay,

00:15:20.480 so the biggest thing

00:15:21.580 I would say

00:15:22.160 is be absolutely

00:15:23.960 unapologetic

00:15:25.160 and unashamed

00:15:26.140 of the Word of God.

00:15:27.360 Like,

00:15:27.780 don't be trying

00:15:29.140 to hide your children

00:15:30.280 from the realities

00:15:31.500 that happen

00:15:32.200 in the Bible,

00:15:33.240 which is one of the things

00:15:34.760 I think is interesting

00:15:35.600 is so many Christians

00:15:37.340 try to protect

00:15:38.100 their children

00:15:38.660 from the Word of God.

00:15:39.880 Like,

00:15:39.980 oh,

00:15:40.600 I don't want them

00:15:41.200 reading that yet

00:15:42.080 or I don't want them

00:15:42.740 to know about

00:15:43.280 that that's in the Bible

00:15:44.360 or that they're here.

00:15:45.760 But the Bible

00:15:46.720 is how God

00:15:47.620 has revealed Himself

00:15:48.720 to us

00:15:49.820 and the idea

00:15:51.100 of us trying

00:15:51.780 to filter

00:15:52.520 God's revelation

00:15:53.660 of Himself

00:15:54.140 to our children

00:15:54.900 is ridiculous

00:15:56.960 and I,

00:15:58.020 all of these things

00:15:58.960 I think is,

00:15:59.700 I have had a lot

00:16:00.580 of crazy conversations

00:16:02.340 with my children.

00:16:04.360 So many of them

00:16:05.580 prompted

00:16:05.960 by God's Word,

00:16:07.480 prompted by

00:16:08.140 what is this about?

00:16:09.420 Like,

00:16:09.600 I mean,

00:16:09.820 yeah,

00:16:10.020 good luck

00:16:10.380 to us all

00:16:10.900 trying to explain,

00:16:12.720 you know,

00:16:13.540 Lot and his daughters

00:16:14.560 to our children

00:16:15.620 in an age-appropriate way.

00:16:19.740 You know,

00:16:19.980 you're like,

00:16:20.360 but I'm going to be

00:16:21.220 unapologetic

00:16:22.000 and unashamed

00:16:22.780 of God's Word.

00:16:24.560 And that one

00:16:25.120 of the things

00:16:25.560 that you notice

00:16:26.160 if you do that

00:16:27.200 with your children

00:16:27.980 is that

00:16:28.820 they're very aware

00:16:30.420 that there's nothing

00:16:31.240 that it does not pertain to.

00:16:32.880 You know,

00:16:33.320 that God

00:16:34.080 has spoken

00:16:35.260 on human immorality.

00:16:36.880 Like,

00:16:37.200 they know this.

00:16:38.540 So,

00:16:39.280 they end up

00:16:40.060 looking at the world

00:16:41.040 through the lens

00:16:41.780 of Scripture

00:16:42.540 and there's nothing

00:16:44.500 that's happening

00:16:45.220 around us now

00:16:46.440 that is worse

00:16:47.780 than things

00:16:48.440 that have been

00:16:49.080 dealt with

00:16:49.880 in Scripture

00:16:50.600 for us to learn from.

00:16:52.520 So,

00:16:52.880 I guess I would just say

00:16:53.740 be,

00:16:54.220 and not,

00:16:54.820 along with unapologetic

00:16:56.220 and unashamed

00:16:57.100 of God's Word,

00:16:58.000 it's read it,

00:16:59.500 know God's Word

00:17:00.360 and embrace it

00:17:01.940 and talk about it

00:17:03.340 with your children.

00:17:04.340 Like,

00:17:04.540 be talking about it.

00:17:05.940 And I think

00:17:06.360 that that will prompt

00:17:07.360 all kinds of things.

00:17:10.720 I do shelter

00:17:11.880 my children from,

00:17:13.360 like,

00:17:13.620 there are things

00:17:14.240 that we would be like,

00:17:15.140 no,

00:17:15.320 we're absolutely

00:17:15.820 not going to go

00:17:16.500 hang out at,

00:17:17.820 you know,

00:17:18.140 downtown

00:17:18.440 during a growth parade.

00:17:20.020 We're not going to go

00:17:20.720 do that kind of thing.

00:17:22.220 But my children

00:17:22.900 don't have categories

00:17:24.140 to put sin in.

00:17:26.280 And in all of those cases,

00:17:27.940 because of Scripture,

00:17:28.980 we have a,

00:17:29.540 we have a companion

00:17:30.480 category of faithfulness

00:17:31.880 and how God dealt with it,

00:17:33.860 which means that,

00:17:35.080 you know,

00:17:35.840 that's a,

00:17:36.320 that's a good thing.

00:17:37.620 Right,

00:17:38.000 right.

00:17:38.420 Okay,

00:17:38.620 talk to me about education.

00:17:41.180 Christian school,

00:17:42.340 private school

00:17:42.960 versus home school

00:17:44.840 versus public school.

00:17:46.640 What did you guys

00:17:47.520 decide to do

00:17:48.440 with your kids

00:17:49.120 and why?

00:17:50.780 Our kids are in a

00:17:52.380 private Christian school,

00:17:53.960 but it's a classical

00:17:54.700 Christian school.

00:17:56.040 I jokingly say

00:17:57.340 I was,

00:17:57.880 I was,

00:17:58.680 homeschooled

00:18:00.020 at school.

00:18:00.960 My parents

00:18:01.840 were really involved.

00:18:03.720 Mostly my dad

00:18:04.380 was involved

00:18:04.900 in starting

00:18:05.480 our school

00:18:07.140 that I went to

00:18:08.340 when I was little,

00:18:09.860 when my sister

00:18:10.460 was in kindergarten.

00:18:11.400 It was our first year.

00:18:12.240 And so our life

00:18:14.700 was very,

00:18:15.220 both of my parents

00:18:16.120 at school

00:18:16.840 and helping

00:18:17.360 and teaching

00:18:18.200 and my dad

00:18:19.540 went back

00:18:20.100 to take Latin classes

00:18:21.380 at the University

00:18:22.700 of Idaho

00:18:23.080 so that he could

00:18:23.660 teach Latin

00:18:24.280 to the kids

00:18:24.960 at Logos

00:18:25.920 when we were little.

00:18:26.580 So they were

00:18:27.320 very involved

00:18:28.540 in this.

00:18:29.520 And I think

00:18:29.960 in the 80s,

00:18:30.740 89,

00:18:31.440 88,

00:18:31.840 somewhere in there,

00:18:32.400 he wrote a book

00:18:33.260 called

00:18:34.040 Recovering the Lost

00:18:34.900 Tools of Learning,

00:18:35.580 which is all about

00:18:36.720 classical education.

00:18:38.380 So our kids

00:18:40.340 go to the school

00:18:41.400 that I went to

00:18:42.360 and in spite

00:18:44.120 of the fact

00:18:44.600 that we love,

00:18:45.740 there's a lot

00:18:46.300 of reasons

00:18:46.680 I love a school

00:18:47.480 setting

00:18:47.860 and we love

00:18:49.160 classical education

00:18:50.240 for a lot of reasons,

00:18:51.620 the one hill

00:18:52.660 we would die on

00:18:53.760 is Christian education,

00:18:55.560 which is that

00:18:56.380 what you're teaching

00:18:58.760 your children

00:18:59.360 needs to be

00:19:01.120 from a Christian

00:19:02.440 worldview,

00:19:03.160 from a Christian

00:19:03.920 perspective.

00:19:05.840 And so

00:19:06.360 the method,

00:19:07.660 the actual method,

00:19:09.140 while we've chosen

00:19:10.040 classical private school,

00:19:12.920 I can't,

00:19:13.920 if we live somewhere else,

00:19:14.900 I don't know

00:19:15.340 that that's what

00:19:15.900 we would choose.

00:19:16.840 But what we're really

00:19:17.820 all about

00:19:18.560 is following

00:19:20.560 those clear things

00:19:22.220 that are said

00:19:22.540 in Scripture

00:19:22.960 about how we should

00:19:24.400 be teaching

00:19:24.860 our children

00:19:25.460 all the time,

00:19:26.560 you know,

00:19:26.900 and bringing them up

00:19:28.720 in the nurture

00:19:29.180 and admonition

00:19:29.780 of the Lord

00:19:30.340 and that we just

00:19:33.020 believe very strongly

00:19:34.200 that Scripture

00:19:34.960 makes a plain argument

00:19:37.220 for us to not

00:19:38.520 follow a secular

00:19:39.840 education path

00:19:40.940 with our children.

00:19:42.180 So what's your

00:19:42.920 advice for people

00:19:44.040 who do have

00:19:45.220 their kids

00:19:45.820 in public school?

00:19:46.400 Because there is

00:19:46.840 an argument

00:19:47.640 from people who say,

00:19:49.200 you know,

00:19:49.820 light should infiltrate

00:19:51.060 darkness,

00:19:51.700 maybe we should go

00:19:52.380 into the public

00:19:52.860 school system

00:19:53.460 and try to make

00:19:54.780 it better.

00:19:55.900 What is your

00:19:56.560 thought on that?

00:19:57.360 Right.

00:19:57.520 And my first

00:20:00.280 thought is just

00:20:01.040 that like the

00:20:02.060 Great Commission,

00:20:03.140 yes, all Christians

00:20:03.960 have been given

00:20:04.500 this, but we

00:20:05.920 don't send our

00:20:06.740 second graders

00:20:07.460 overseas to

00:20:09.060 difficult mission

00:20:11.860 environments to

00:20:12.940 like, good luck

00:20:13.540 kids.

00:20:14.140 Yeah.

00:20:14.680 Go.

00:20:15.600 They're not

00:20:16.220 equipped.

00:20:17.280 They're not

00:20:17.620 trained.

00:20:18.260 They're not ready

00:20:19.060 yet.

00:20:19.560 So I believe

00:20:21.760 that even if

00:20:22.520 that's your whole

00:20:23.560 argument, you

00:20:25.240 would have to

00:20:25.820 show that

00:20:27.060 you're making

00:20:28.160 more impact

00:20:29.040 than it's being

00:20:29.680 made on your

00:20:30.360 child.

00:20:31.160 You know,

00:20:31.480 that this is

00:20:32.180 that your child

00:20:33.120 is not being

00:20:33.980 imprinted more

00:20:35.340 heavily than

00:20:36.080 they're putting

00:20:37.420 out.

00:20:37.780 But otherwise,

00:20:38.160 I would just say

00:20:38.780 that's not the

00:20:39.160 place of children

00:20:40.060 and to go be

00:20:41.800 our foot soldiers

00:20:43.580 in difficult

00:20:44.540 places.

00:20:45.900 And so one of

00:20:46.700 the things that

00:20:47.340 we do at the

00:20:48.500 school that my

00:20:49.100 children go to

00:20:49.980 when they're in

00:20:50.460 high school,

00:20:51.460 they do a lot.

00:20:52.400 They're reading

00:20:52.820 books by atheists.

00:20:54.220 They'll have in

00:20:55.060 that they because

00:20:56.580 it's a classical

00:20:57.240 school, they take

00:20:58.080 rhetoric and

00:20:58.640 apologetics and

00:20:59.680 they do they have

00:21:00.560 to speak publicly

00:21:01.520 all the time in

00:21:02.440 class, but they

00:21:03.640 will invite in,

00:21:04.560 you know, the

00:21:05.260 head of the

00:21:06.800 local humanist

00:21:07.860 association who

00:21:08.980 will present

00:21:09.620 things to them

00:21:10.220 like they're not

00:21:11.080 being sheltered

00:21:12.220 from the world.

00:21:14.360 Right.

00:21:14.520 They're being

00:21:14.960 equipped to be

00:21:16.160 in it and know

00:21:17.200 what they're up

00:21:17.720 against.

00:21:18.480 Right.

00:21:19.140 Right.

00:21:19.540 That's so good.

00:21:20.340 I think that

00:21:21.480 that's also a

00:21:22.260 temptation on the

00:21:22.980 other side.

00:21:23.420 So you've got the

00:21:23.880 people who say

00:21:24.660 let's just

00:21:25.240 infiltrate the

00:21:25.780 public schools.

00:21:26.400 But on the

00:21:26.940 other end, I

00:21:28.020 think that you

00:21:28.440 have a lot of

00:21:28.840 parents who think

00:21:30.400 of Christian

00:21:30.740 school as more

00:21:31.560 of a bubble, as

00:21:32.680 a way to

00:21:33.400 insulate, which

00:21:34.120 it is in some

00:21:34.900 ways.

00:21:35.180 Like you said, we

00:21:35.880 are protecting our

00:21:36.660 children for a

00:21:37.260 certain amount of

00:21:37.820 time from certain

00:21:39.640 things in the world,

00:21:40.400 sort of, as much

00:21:41.240 as we can.

00:21:42.360 But it's actually

00:21:43.960 not a bubble.

00:21:44.740 You are equipping

00:21:45.480 them and then you

00:21:46.140 are exposing them

00:21:47.700 to the things that

00:21:48.920 they are going to

00:21:50.020 inevitably come up

00:21:52.120 against when they're

00:21:52.900 in college or

00:21:53.880 elsewhere.

00:21:55.780 Yeah.

00:21:56.080 And they also, the

00:21:57.000 reality is that

00:21:57.980 that temptation to

00:21:59.160 take your child

00:22:00.520 away and hide

00:22:01.940 them from sin in

00:22:02.860 the world is

00:22:04.160 forgetting how much

00:22:05.160 sin is in their

00:22:05.740 own hearts.

00:22:06.360 You know, you

00:22:07.100 don't need other

00:22:08.080 people's influence

00:22:09.020 to make you

00:22:09.940 sinful.

00:22:11.300 You can brew

00:22:12.320 that up all by

00:22:13.080 yourself in your

00:22:13.860 bedroom.

00:22:14.320 You know, like

00:22:14.720 you have all the

00:22:16.720 sin you need right

00:22:17.680 inside of you ready

00:22:18.720 to go.

00:22:19.120 So there's no

00:22:20.620 sense in that

00:22:21.960 kind of thing,

00:22:22.560 like trying to

00:22:23.080 shelter our

00:22:23.680 children as though

00:22:25.380 we can keep them

00:22:26.420 from having to

00:22:27.200 deal with sin because

00:22:28.300 that's what they're

00:22:29.260 dealing with all

00:22:29.980 day.

00:22:30.420 You know, like

00:22:30.800 that's what they're

00:22:31.380 up against just

00:22:32.140 with themselves.

00:22:33.380 Yeah, that's a

00:22:33.860 really good point.

00:22:34.680 And you would

00:22:35.700 agree that all of

00:22:36.920 this, none of this

00:22:37.740 is going to make

00:22:38.500 sense.

00:22:39.060 None of this even

00:22:39.800 really matters outside

00:22:41.000 of the biblical

00:22:41.700 worldview, which is

00:22:42.680 why it's so

00:22:43.200 important.

00:22:43.860 I love what you

00:22:44.440 said about your

00:22:45.180 primary responsibility

00:22:46.140 is making sure

00:22:47.140 as a mom that

00:22:47.780 your heart is

00:22:48.900 right before God,

00:22:50.140 which means being

00:22:51.140 in his word.

00:22:52.400 And you said at

00:22:52.860 the beginning that

00:22:53.460 really what you do

00:22:54.520 is getting women

00:22:55.780 to read the Bible.

00:22:57.040 Can you talk about

00:22:57.700 that?

00:22:59.400 Yes, I can.

00:23:00.380 It's like my

00:23:00.880 favorite, my

00:23:01.740 favorite thing.

00:23:02.420 When I first

00:23:02.880 started writing for

00:23:03.540 mothers, I was

00:23:04.680 always really nervous

00:23:05.640 around the topic

00:23:06.520 of Bible reading

00:23:07.280 because, you know,

00:23:09.160 you know how fast

00:23:10.060 mothers are to go

00:23:10.900 guilty, right?

00:23:12.420 Like you, you

00:23:13.340 start saying you

00:23:14.440 should do this and

00:23:15.520 everyone has a

00:23:16.920 guilt, mom guilt.

00:23:17.900 Yeah, not doing

00:23:18.720 it.

00:23:18.940 Yeah.

00:23:19.260 And that and guilt

00:23:20.440 is a horrible

00:23:21.560 motivator, like just

00:23:22.700 horrible, because all

00:23:24.060 it does is get us to

00:23:25.020 do enough to get rid

00:23:26.200 of the guilt.

00:23:26.900 And then we stop,

00:23:28.140 you know, like we're

00:23:28.680 we're not actually

00:23:29.960 motivated by guilt.

00:23:31.300 We just think we

00:23:31.900 are.

00:23:32.580 And so in the last

00:23:33.800 couple of years, I

00:23:34.800 would say my position

00:23:35.760 on that has really

00:23:36.560 changed because I

00:23:38.580 as we started what

00:23:40.520 we call the Bible

00:23:41.280 reading challenge,

00:23:42.140 it's year round in

00:23:43.540 the academic year.

00:23:45.040 We read the whole

00:23:46.360 Bible.

00:23:47.020 So it's the whole

00:23:47.580 Bible in nine

00:23:48.120 months.

00:23:48.580 And then in the

00:23:48.980 summer, we do just

00:23:49.760 the New Testament

00:23:50.300 again.

00:23:51.280 So if you stick

00:23:52.540 with us through the

00:23:53.200 whole year, we'll

00:23:54.200 read the New Testament

00:23:54.900 twice and the Old

00:23:55.860 Testament once and a

00:23:56.780 bunch of epistles.

00:23:57.900 If you do the bonus

00:23:58.980 reading and such a

00:23:59.760 bunch of the epistles,

00:24:00.500 you will have read

00:24:00.960 like five or six

00:24:01.680 times in a year.

00:24:04.260 And when we did

00:24:06.160 that, I realized that

00:24:07.460 was a breakthrough for

00:24:08.520 me and realizing why

00:24:09.700 not just work harder

00:24:10.920 on telling people to

00:24:12.240 get rid of the guilt,

00:24:13.040 like stop it with

00:24:14.700 the guilt, get to

00:24:15.940 know your God, you

00:24:16.700 know, like this is

00:24:17.400 not so some of the

00:24:18.860 things we really

00:24:19.600 emphasize is like if

00:24:20.660 you fall behind, just

00:24:21.860 jump in on today's

00:24:22.920 reading, like we're

00:24:23.760 we treat it like it's

00:24:24.920 a feast at a table.

00:24:26.500 You don't come to

00:24:27.280 someone's house for

00:24:27.960 dinner and then be

00:24:29.020 like, I'm sorry, I

00:24:29.680 can't eat this.

00:24:30.300 I didn't eat my

00:24:30.920 breakfast this morning.

00:24:31.960 Yeah, I'm going to

00:24:32.820 have to work through

00:24:33.520 some raisin bran for

00:24:34.640 me.

00:24:36.540 Right.

00:24:36.780 So our emphasis is on

00:24:38.900 people learning habits

00:24:40.440 and and encouraging

00:24:42.160 women to learn the

00:24:43.960 habit and the hunger

00:24:45.340 for God's word, the

00:24:46.440 hunger and the thirst

00:24:47.260 for it.

00:24:47.800 And it has been so

00:24:49.580 fruitful and wildly

00:24:51.760 fruitful in ways that

00:24:53.200 it has made me way

00:24:54.360 less hesitant when

00:24:55.780 people are like, I'm

00:24:56.360 just having this

00:24:57.040 problem.

00:24:57.760 Now I'm I'm just

00:24:59.100 like, are you reading

00:24:59.820 your Bible?

00:25:00.320 Like, read your Bible.

00:25:01.680 Yeah.

00:25:02.360 Reading your Bible,

00:25:03.060 which I love that it

00:25:04.560 has given me so much

00:25:05.400 more confidence in

00:25:06.520 God's word as the

00:25:07.520 actual answer.

00:25:08.260 Like, this is actually

00:25:08.860 what we need and it

00:25:10.100 actually will change

00:25:10.920 your life if you are

00:25:12.400 doing this.

00:25:13.020 So I guess we are we

00:25:15.240 have I think our

00:25:16.100 Facebook group has

00:25:16.940 close to 18,000 women.

00:25:18.960 Wow.

00:25:19.320 That's amazing.

00:25:20.780 We say we're very

00:25:22.640 theologically diverse.

00:25:24.160 We're like theologically

00:25:25.060 diverse, literally on

00:25:26.300 the same page.

00:25:27.180 The whole point is

00:25:28.220 that we are what we're

00:25:29.760 encouraging each other

00:25:30.600 to do.

00:25:31.000 We're not teaching the

00:25:31.800 Bible.

00:25:32.140 We're teaching a love

00:25:32.840 of the Bible.

00:25:33.680 And I've just seen

00:25:35.620 it being it's so

00:25:36.560 fruitful because, you

00:25:37.780 know, the passage

00:25:38.780 that says his word

00:25:40.760 has gone out.

00:25:41.320 It will not return

00:25:42.060 void.

00:25:42.460 It will accomplish the

00:25:43.460 thing for which he

00:25:44.200 sent it.

00:25:44.800 You know, that it

00:25:45.720 will do what God

00:25:47.300 sent his word to do.

00:25:48.860 And then if you ask

00:25:49.680 yourself, well, what

00:25:50.720 is what is it that

00:25:51.900 it's going to do?

00:25:53.280 And and it says

00:25:54.980 corresponding passage

00:25:56.880 and I think it's in

00:25:57.960 that I can't quote it

00:25:59.460 exactly.

00:25:59.860 But it's the one

00:26:00.840 about about it

00:26:02.100 being, you know,

00:26:03.960 how God's word

00:26:05.060 will like, you know

00:26:06.840 what I'm talking

00:26:07.360 about, though, this

00:26:08.120 passage about it's

00:26:08.920 good for correction

00:26:09.680 and for yes.

00:26:11.680 Yes.

00:26:12.080 I'm pretty sure it's

00:26:13.020 first Timothy.

00:26:13.900 Yeah.

00:26:14.500 Three, maybe first

00:26:16.040 Timothy three.

00:26:17.500 So I was going to

00:26:18.200 say, I like when I

00:26:19.000 always start, though,

00:26:19.980 whenever you start to

00:26:21.000 say where I think

00:26:21.780 that is, you're like,

00:26:22.620 oh, I'm not sure.

00:26:24.040 Oh, yeah, I am not

00:26:25.500 good.

00:26:25.800 That's one thing I'm

00:26:26.720 not good at.

00:26:27.120 I can recall verses,

00:26:29.840 but I cannot I can

00:26:31.240 very rarely tell you

00:26:32.940 exactly the chapter

00:26:34.600 and verse, which I

00:26:36.600 think is OK.

00:26:37.420 When we're old, we'll

00:26:38.340 be able to do that.

00:26:39.260 People keep reading

00:26:39.960 the Bible from now

00:26:40.940 until then.

00:26:41.880 Yes, I hope so.

00:26:43.460 That's one gift that

00:26:44.500 I want to have.

00:26:45.500 So can people can

00:26:47.140 people join in right

00:26:47.960 now?

00:26:48.240 Could they join the

00:26:48.860 Facebook group right

00:26:49.720 now?

00:26:50.420 OK, anytime you join

00:26:51.860 anytime you join, we

00:26:53.140 do.

00:26:53.620 So like the plans roll

00:26:55.420 out like one in

00:26:56.140 September and one in

00:26:56.960 May.

00:26:57.420 But people are

00:26:58.100 welcome anytime and

00:26:59.560 from any time you

00:27:00.420 join, you just jump

00:27:01.940 in where we are.

00:27:03.040 And this time in a

00:27:03.960 year, you will have

00:27:04.740 read the whole, you

00:27:05.900 know, will have been

00:27:06.620 through everything.

00:27:07.440 So jump in whenever

00:27:08.860 that's it.

00:27:09.520 We're all about not

00:27:11.580 waiting until the

00:27:12.260 first of the year or

00:27:13.480 a Monday or a, you

00:27:15.540 know, we're like,

00:27:16.000 don't do it perfectly.

00:27:17.440 We're very get it

00:27:19.340 done.

00:27:19.680 Like listen on audio.

00:27:20.880 If you can't, we

00:27:21.760 have apps to help.

00:27:23.080 There's it's on you

00:27:24.760 version.

00:27:25.680 It's on the Bible

00:27:26.500 reading app.

00:27:27.140 A lot of things that

00:27:27.880 connect with just

00:27:28.640 turning your audio

00:27:29.300 Bible on to keep up

00:27:30.480 with it.

00:27:31.500 And another is an

00:27:32.580 active Facebook group.

00:27:33.700 So if you are in the

00:27:34.680 group, all of a sudden

00:27:35.880 you'll get this

00:27:36.460 impression that like the

00:27:37.460 whole world is reading

00:27:38.320 the Bible.

00:27:39.080 Yeah.

00:27:39.420 Because your whole

00:27:40.300 feed is full of people

00:27:41.360 saying, I never

00:27:42.320 noticed this before and

00:27:43.360 look at this.

00:27:44.060 And yeah, that's been

00:27:45.240 a really fun thing.

00:27:46.280 But I'd say the end of

00:27:47.240 that passage in first

00:27:48.240 Timothy is where it

00:27:49.520 says that the man of

00:27:50.920 God may be thoroughly

00:27:51.940 equipped for every

00:27:52.980 good work.

00:27:53.620 And I and I can

00:27:54.860 think of nothing

00:27:55.900 more powerful in the

00:27:58.640 world than if you

00:27:59.320 say, well, could we

00:28:00.480 get all the Christian

00:28:01.840 women to be thoroughly

00:28:03.320 equipped for every

00:28:04.400 good work in front of

00:28:05.740 them?

00:28:05.940 And what kind of a

00:28:06.960 difference do you think

00:28:07.640 that would make in the

00:28:08.600 world?

00:28:09.200 Like pretty substantial

00:28:10.960 difference if every

00:28:13.040 Christian woman was so

00:28:14.540 thoroughly equipped.

00:28:15.740 Yes.

00:28:16.460 And we've seen it that

00:28:18.260 Christian women who are in

00:28:19.240 the word have so much

00:28:20.120 more confidence in when

00:28:22.020 they're talking to their

00:28:22.780 friends like, no, that's

00:28:23.940 not biblical.

00:28:24.680 You know, no, you can't

00:28:25.580 do this or this is why

00:28:26.680 they are way more

00:28:27.720 confident in that.

00:28:29.780 So I love the idea of

00:28:31.100 like, I think we can

00:28:32.440 change the world if women

00:28:33.600 will just read their

00:28:34.300 Bible.

00:28:35.100 Yes.

00:28:35.480 What's the name of the

00:28:36.460 Facebook group?

00:28:38.920 It's the Bible Reading

00:28:40.100 Challenge.

00:28:40.980 The Bible Reading

00:28:41.860 Challenge.

00:28:42.580 OK.

00:28:43.000 Yes.

00:28:43.500 And there is a men's

00:28:44.540 group, but the men, it

00:28:45.580 turns out, I don't think

00:28:46.500 are as encouraged by

00:28:47.920 regular life companionship

00:28:50.400 as the women are.

00:28:51.420 I think that that's

00:28:52.120 that the men's group is

00:28:54.020 not nearly as active

00:28:55.100 with like, look at my

00:28:56.460 laundry, but I'm

00:28:57.220 listening to the Bible.

00:28:58.800 Yes.

00:29:00.040 Yes.

00:29:00.520 But it's but there is a

00:29:01.620 men's group and that plan

00:29:02.680 is translated in multiple

00:29:04.180 languages.

00:29:04.740 There's a Spanish group,

00:29:05.960 a French group.

00:29:06.960 There's people all over

00:29:08.060 the world that we are

00:29:09.360 literally on the same

00:29:10.380 page with.

00:29:10.940 It's been wonderful.

00:29:11.540 That is awesome.

00:29:13.060 There aren't very many

00:29:13.880 resources like that for

00:29:15.640 women that are literally

00:29:16.920 bringing women just

00:29:18.040 into the Bible rather

00:29:19.140 than creating almost

00:29:20.940 like an emotional filter

00:29:22.640 in front of the Bible.

00:29:24.200 Like if we think about

00:29:25.340 Instagram filters or

00:29:26.700 something, making

00:29:27.340 something look different

00:29:28.680 or more polished, not

00:29:30.160 as many so-called flaws.

00:29:31.520 And a lot of women's

00:29:32.960 devotionals do that.

00:29:34.040 Like, here's the pretty

00:29:35.040 filter in front of the

00:29:35.880 Bible because you can't

00:29:37.020 emotionally handle what's

00:29:38.220 in here.

00:29:38.640 And because I think we're

00:29:39.820 so afraid of mom guilt

00:29:41.360 and we don't want to put

00:29:42.740 we're afraid that mom guilt

00:29:44.200 or any kind of guilt is

00:29:45.120 going to push someone

00:29:45.760 away from the word.

00:29:46.520 So we kind of make

00:29:48.340 it the Bible like

00:29:49.480 we don't want them

00:29:50.260 to feel that.

00:29:51.320 Yes.

00:29:51.620 So we make it a suggestion.

00:29:52.720 It's a suggestion.

00:29:53.780 And let me make this

00:29:54.580 really easy and chewable

00:29:56.420 for you.

00:29:57.640 Why do you think that

00:29:58.720 is particularly true

00:30:00.040 of women?

00:30:00.840 Like, why do we view

00:30:01.880 women as unable to

00:30:03.540 take the word of God

00:30:04.760 seriously?

00:30:06.440 I don't know that,

00:30:08.160 but I, I mean,

00:30:09.120 I have theories,

00:30:10.660 but I think a lot of it

00:30:12.440 is that women's ministry

00:30:13.800 is a huge mistake.

00:30:15.100 So there's that.

00:30:16.760 I, I think that

00:30:17.740 can you unpack that?

00:30:19.680 Yeah, I probably should

00:30:21.260 because that's a pretty

00:30:21.980 explosive.

00:30:24.060 I'm actually very involved

00:30:26.020 in what is women's

00:30:28.940 ministry, but the,

00:30:29.840 but the thing that I think

00:30:30.840 it should be is a

00:30:32.140 ministry of women,

00:30:33.280 not a victim culture

00:30:35.800 women's ministry,

00:30:37.600 which is what has

00:30:38.820 happened.

00:30:39.200 I think, I don't know

00:30:40.780 this.

00:30:41.020 I'm kind of just

00:30:41.780 think I, I have

00:30:42.760 looked like, is there

00:30:43.700 a history of this

00:30:44.500 anywhere?

00:30:44.720 And I have not been

00:30:45.380 able to find it,

00:30:46.140 but I suspect that

00:30:47.800 women's ministries grew

00:30:49.140 out of essentially

00:30:50.220 women's auxiliary type

00:30:51.660 things that, that the

00:30:53.600 women would gather to

00:30:54.740 do women, what was

00:30:56.460 seen as women's work

00:30:57.720 for the church, right?

00:30:58.920 So they're like, what

00:31:00.180 are they doing?

00:31:00.740 They're making food for

00:31:01.740 people.

00:31:02.120 They're knitting things

00:31:03.260 for soldiers.

00:31:03.920 They're like, they were

00:31:05.020 getting together to work

00:31:06.220 together, right.

00:31:07.280 To minister to others.

00:31:08.620 And as that became

00:31:10.800 unnecessary in different

00:31:12.460 ways, as women's work

00:31:13.840 became, um, I mean, I

00:31:16.740 can't think of real, any

00:31:17.800 urgent, you must knit

00:31:19.360 things for someone or

00:31:20.660 they're going to be cold,

00:31:22.380 you know, like, and so

00:31:23.540 as that became less

00:31:24.760 important, I think that

00:31:26.120 we still had this idea of

00:31:27.740 the women should go off

00:31:28.680 together to do

00:31:30.180 something.

00:31:30.940 But the reality is

00:31:32.620 there's only one

00:31:33.640 ministry of the word and

00:31:34.840 sacrament.

00:31:35.420 And that, that is

00:31:36.360 church.

00:31:36.960 Like that is worship.

00:31:38.620 Right.

00:31:39.280 And so if you end up

00:31:40.860 taking all the women

00:31:42.100 away from where they're

00:31:43.220 supposed to be being

00:31:44.560 fed and rebuked and

00:31:46.040 corrected and, and

00:31:47.480 built up then, and

00:31:49.460 then you take them

00:31:50.020 somewhere else and

00:31:50.820 we've made it where the

00:31:52.220 women get together to

00:31:53.280 minister to one another.

00:31:54.860 Right.

00:31:55.540 Like, so then it is

00:31:57.040 this victim culture

00:31:57.940 problem of, we all

00:31:59.700 start talking all the

00:32:00.720 time about how needy we

00:32:01.940 are and how tired we

00:32:03.120 are and how, and so

00:32:04.520 then you have this

00:32:05.600 relationship of the

00:32:06.820 more spiritually

00:32:08.160 equipped women

00:32:08.800 thinking their job is

00:32:10.020 to just encourage and

00:32:11.300 equip these women.

00:32:12.600 And we all sit in a

00:32:13.760 circle and gaze at each

00:32:14.920 other and notice all

00:32:16.240 our problems, right?

00:32:17.220 Like, like all we do

00:32:18.340 is look around

00:32:19.580 instead of, and what

00:32:21.680 the Bible reading

00:32:22.320 challenge really has

00:32:23.340 shown us locally,

00:32:24.540 even here is that we

00:32:26.500 have 70 something

00:32:27.920 mods in the Bible

00:32:30.060 reading challenge

00:32:30.580 Facebook group who

00:32:31.760 are all women in our

00:32:32.860 church.

00:32:33.280 And no, we don't

00:32:35.080 have rules.

00:32:35.760 So the mods job is to

00:32:37.220 be the moderator

00:32:38.480 encourager, the

00:32:40.000 moderator.

00:32:41.600 Yeah.

00:32:42.120 The moderators in the

00:32:43.180 group, their job is to

00:32:44.840 be cheerleaders and

00:32:45.920 encouragers.

00:32:46.580 And we're not enforcing

00:32:48.620 rules in the group.

00:32:49.900 So it's not like 75

00:32:52.120 police officers.

00:32:53.700 Yeah.

00:32:54.360 The group, it's 75

00:32:56.080 women who are using

00:32:57.460 hospitality and

00:32:59.240 encouragement to try to

00:33:00.620 drive other women to

00:33:01.880 the word.

00:33:02.740 And so what I think

00:33:03.600 you can see there is

00:33:05.120 the difference between

00:33:06.340 a ministry to

00:33:07.920 ourselves and a

00:33:09.320 ministry of women

00:33:10.520 behaving like biblical

00:33:12.480 women who are wanting

00:33:13.500 to encourage other

00:33:14.240 women to be in the

00:33:15.200 word.

00:33:15.640 And the fellowship of

00:33:17.220 working together is so

00:33:18.580 sweet, you know, like

00:33:19.840 working together.

00:33:20.980 Whereas if we were

00:33:21.720 getting together to say

00:33:22.640 like, how can we

00:33:23.880 encourage one another?

00:33:24.820 Well, we're way better

00:33:25.980 at encouraging one

00:33:26.880 another to faithfully

00:33:28.200 work together.

00:33:28.900 And it's almost like a

00:33:30.380 big group of running

00:33:31.500 partners.

00:33:32.180 Yeah.

00:33:32.500 Like we're working hard

00:33:33.880 together and we're

00:33:34.680 encouraging one another

00:33:35.680 in the Lord and in the

00:33:36.680 word.

00:33:36.900 But it's not like, it's

00:33:38.860 not like, oh, today I

00:33:39.740 need to bring you a

00:33:40.820 blessing that will help

00:33:42.300 you today.

00:33:43.020 Or, and in the course

00:33:44.760 of this, we've also

00:33:45.760 seen a number of times,

00:33:46.980 probably 10 different

00:33:47.800 times that I know of,

00:33:49.280 where a woman in a

00:33:50.560 church somewhere is

00:33:51.920 doing the Bible

00:33:52.680 rain challenge.

00:33:53.900 She's all excited.

00:33:55.040 She's like, I want to

00:33:56.100 invite all my friends to

00:33:56.980 read the Bible with me

00:33:57.660 because this is amazing

00:33:58.600 and I never saw all

00:33:59.480 these connections and

00:34:00.460 she's so excited.

00:34:01.540 So she goes to the

00:34:02.640 leader of the women's

00:34:03.540 ministry and they say,

00:34:05.160 no, you cannot.

00:34:06.460 Like, you cannot tell

00:34:07.780 the women in our church

00:34:08.580 about this because they

00:34:10.200 can't handle it.

00:34:12.120 They like, like the

00:34:13.200 women in our church,

00:34:14.020 they will feel guilty.

00:34:15.560 This is too much for

00:34:16.620 them.

00:34:17.980 It's like a weird

00:34:18.840 mothering problem

00:34:20.160 instead of a faithful

00:34:21.440 co-laborer being like,

00:34:23.440 you can, come on,

00:34:25.080 you know, like we're

00:34:25.620 doing this, come

00:34:27.040 alongside of us

00:34:27.920 and do it with us.

00:34:29.460 Wow.

00:34:30.100 I just think there's

00:34:30.880 weird stuff going on

00:34:32.060 there.

00:34:32.780 Yeah.

00:34:33.400 Yeah.

00:34:33.700 I mean, I guess it

00:34:34.600 kind of goes back to

00:34:35.560 the Garden of Eden.

00:34:36.680 The woman has always

00:34:37.880 been especially

00:34:39.040 deceived and more

00:34:40.000 susceptible to

00:34:41.340 deception.

00:34:42.100 And that's true

00:34:43.580 today.

00:34:44.640 That's like the most

00:34:45.560 popular Bible verse

00:34:46.980 of all.

00:34:47.560 You brought it up.

00:34:48.500 Yes.

00:34:49.160 The gullible women.

00:34:50.940 But I mean, it's

00:34:52.360 true.

00:34:52.640 And I've talked

00:34:53.440 about this.

00:34:53.920 I'm sure you've

00:34:54.440 talked about it too.

00:34:55.320 If we're all honest

00:34:56.280 with ourselves and we

00:34:57.200 lay down our pride,

00:34:58.180 it's not that men

00:34:58.800 can't be deceived.

00:34:59.700 Obviously, Adam was

00:35:00.640 deceived as well, but

00:35:01.520 women are so susceptible

00:35:03.220 to deception.

00:35:04.060 And some of it is

00:35:04.980 because of that

00:35:05.720 self-victimization

00:35:06.780 that we are in.

00:35:08.100 We deceive

00:35:08.640 ourselves.

00:35:09.280 And how do you know

00:35:09.920 you're being deceived?

00:35:10.740 You don't.

00:35:11.160 That's the point of

00:35:11.780 deception.

00:35:12.420 So I love what you

00:35:14.180 guys, I love what you

00:35:15.040 guys are doing.

00:35:15.660 And I love, I think

00:35:16.500 it's such a more

00:35:17.060 actually positive and

00:35:18.660 empowering, if you

00:35:20.180 will, view of women

00:35:21.660 that we are made

00:35:23.880 with the capacity

00:35:24.740 to be able to

00:35:25.500 seek after God

00:35:26.380 and to serve other

00:35:27.300 people.

00:35:28.740 But I do, sorry, go

00:35:30.220 ahead.

00:35:31.500 No, I was going to

00:35:32.220 say, I do think it's

00:35:33.680 a two-part thing.

00:35:34.480 I think, I think

00:35:35.300 there's the women who

00:35:36.100 are identifying

00:35:36.720 themselves as victims

00:35:37.800 who need the

00:35:38.580 encouragement of the

00:35:39.460 women that they think

00:35:40.240 are not victims.

00:35:40.960 Like, like I'm the

00:35:42.540 victim of how hard

00:35:43.440 I'm having it.

00:35:44.260 And you seem more

00:35:45.380 together.

00:35:46.000 So you should

00:35:46.820 minister to me.

00:35:48.120 And I think on the

00:35:48.900 other end of that,

00:35:49.660 because I told you I

00:35:50.560 had exposure to the

00:35:51.860 world's most clingy

00:35:52.840 audience, you know,

00:35:54.100 at the writing for

00:35:55.500 young mothers.

00:35:56.340 Yes.

00:35:56.620 And on the other

00:35:57.620 end of that, when

00:35:58.760 you think of the

00:35:59.960 word of God as like a

00:36:01.340 huge banquet table

00:36:02.700 that is just loaded

00:36:03.920 with stuff to

00:36:05.020 strengthen us and to

00:36:06.160 equip us and to

00:36:07.040 encourage us.

00:36:07.960 And I think if you,

00:36:09.700 I'm sure you've had

00:36:10.560 this experience, I

00:36:11.500 know I did when I

00:36:12.340 would blog some for

00:36:13.740 mothers, is getting

00:36:14.920 those desperate

00:36:15.760 messages from people

00:36:16.860 like, like, can you

00:36:18.000 just say something

00:36:18.760 about this?

00:36:19.320 Like, I need to be

00:36:20.100 encouraged in this

00:36:21.000 area or I need to

00:36:21.960 be whatever.

00:36:23.040 And I started to see

00:36:24.180 that.

00:36:24.620 I always resisted it

00:36:25.800 because I was like,

00:36:26.520 I have, I actually

00:36:27.300 have responsibilities

00:36:28.120 right here.

00:36:28.880 Like, I'm actually

00:36:29.980 not going to get up

00:36:31.240 in the morning and

00:36:31.800 worry about you.

00:36:33.240 Like, I have closer

00:36:34.340 responsibilities.

00:36:35.660 But I have always

00:36:36.360 thought that that is,

00:36:37.280 it is like people who

00:36:38.120 are under the table

00:36:39.020 looking for you to

00:36:39.920 drop crumbs to them.

00:36:41.700 And I think that

00:36:42.480 temptation goes two

00:36:43.480 ways.

00:36:43.920 You have the people

00:36:44.520 under the table who

00:36:45.480 have become

00:36:46.580 beggars.

00:36:47.520 Like, they have

00:36:48.280 made themselves be

00:36:49.900 poverty-stricken under

00:36:51.220 there begging for

00:36:52.160 crumbs.

00:36:52.640 And then you have

00:36:53.200 people who actually

00:36:54.020 are reading God's

00:36:54.880 word who have

00:36:55.740 started to be like,

00:36:56.660 you know what I

00:36:57.200 should do?

00:36:57.520 I should throw

00:36:57.940 biscuits under the

00:36:58.700 table.

00:36:59.080 Like, I should just

00:36:59.800 be constantly making

00:37:01.060 mess down there for

00:37:02.060 them to eat.

00:37:02.720 Instead of pulling

00:37:03.540 people up to the

00:37:04.340 table.

00:37:04.800 Get up!

00:37:05.360 Yeah.

00:37:05.880 There's a seat

00:37:06.760 right here.

00:37:07.980 There is a plate

00:37:09.180 here.

00:37:09.600 Like, you don't

00:37:10.160 belong under the

00:37:11.020 table and I

00:37:11.860 shouldn't be throwing

00:37:12.740 food under the

00:37:13.460 table.

00:37:13.920 Like, we should all

00:37:14.620 of us be sitting

00:37:15.820 together enjoying

00:37:16.740 the table

00:37:17.300 fellowship as

00:37:18.540 partakers of

00:37:20.880 Christ.

00:37:21.460 Like, we could

00:37:22.380 all sit here

00:37:23.020 together and enjoy

00:37:24.060 each other and

00:37:24.540 that that is more

00:37:25.620 strengthening and

00:37:26.440 encouraging than

00:37:27.120 anything I could

00:37:28.160 pass people under

00:37:29.060 the table.

00:37:29.680 Yeah, which is

00:37:30.280 exactly what you

00:37:31.040 guys are doing

00:37:31.760 through the Bible

00:37:32.500 reading challenge

00:37:33.240 is you're saying,

00:37:34.360 hey, there's

00:37:34.780 actually a place

00:37:35.440 right here for

00:37:36.020 you.

00:37:36.360 And there is a

00:37:37.560 place for people

00:37:38.400 like you who are,

00:37:39.720 you know, have

00:37:40.000 been reading the

00:37:40.600 Bible for years to

00:37:41.560 say, okay, this

00:37:42.720 is how you do

00:37:43.620 it, right?

00:37:44.820 Like, this is how

00:37:45.680 you do it.

00:37:46.120 Here's how you

00:37:46.600 use your utensils

00:37:47.600 or however long

00:37:48.840 you want to go

00:37:49.280 with the metaphor.

00:37:50.180 And this is how

00:37:50.980 you do it.

00:37:51.400 This is how you

00:37:52.200 enjoy it.

00:37:53.340 I think that is

00:37:54.960 better and more

00:37:56.180 effective than just

00:37:57.340 throwing people the

00:37:58.260 scraps after you've

00:37:59.260 eaten them.

00:38:01.220 100% better.

00:38:03.080 And it's also way

00:38:04.200 more exciting because

00:38:05.220 all of a sudden you

00:38:05.960 see the power of

00:38:06.980 God's word in their

00:38:07.740 life.

00:38:08.300 Right.

00:38:08.520 And it's a

00:38:09.840 wonderful, wonderful

00:38:10.840 thing because you

00:38:12.020 see it in your own

00:38:12.780 life and you see it

00:38:13.660 in the lives of

00:38:14.220 others.

00:38:14.960 And it is very

00:38:15.720 humbling.

00:38:16.320 It's like nobody

00:38:16.820 needs me to filter

00:38:18.480 this for them, but

00:38:20.480 we can talk over it

00:38:21.680 and encourage one

00:38:22.460 another.

00:38:22.760 And that's

00:38:23.020 wonderful.

00:38:23.620 Absolutely.

00:38:24.440 Okay.

00:38:24.700 Will you direct

00:38:25.540 people anywhere you

00:38:26.500 want them to go to

00:38:27.640 your stuff, to the

00:38:29.120 Bible reading

00:38:29.620 challenge, to your

00:38:30.960 book?

00:38:33.640 Right.

00:38:34.760 And I would say

00:38:36.820 if you go to

00:38:38.120 christkirk.com

00:38:39.640 slash Bible

00:38:40.620 challenge, that is

00:38:42.280 the website where

00:38:43.800 there's the

00:38:44.360 printables, there's

00:38:45.200 links to all the

00:38:45.980 apps, there's, you

00:38:47.740 know, I think there's

00:38:48.200 an invitation video and

00:38:49.640 there's links to the

00:38:50.360 Facebook groups and

00:38:51.160 everything is right

00:38:52.420 there.

00:38:52.740 So if you're

00:38:53.100 interested in the

00:38:54.760 Bible reading

00:38:55.220 challenge, and I

00:38:55.920 have to say,

00:38:57.120 everybody, it's

00:38:58.040 about six chapters a

00:38:59.180 day, which is

00:38:59.820 intimidating if you've

00:39:00.940 been told your whole

00:39:01.700 life that you should

00:39:02.740 just meditate on one

00:39:03.680 verse and that'll be

00:39:04.820 enough.

00:39:05.800 But if you time

00:39:06.700 yourself reading

00:39:07.440 Ephesians, probably

00:39:08.440 like 11 to 15

00:39:09.980 minutes of reading,

00:39:11.160 you know, like six

00:39:11.840 chapters, you can

00:39:13.200 read it that fast.

00:39:14.100 Read it just like

00:39:14.720 you're reading a

00:39:15.160 blog or something

00:39:16.340 else, not like

00:39:17.200 trying to wring

00:39:17.780 everything out of

00:39:18.540 it.

00:39:19.360 But if you're

00:39:20.140 interested in it,

00:39:21.020 it's absolutely

00:39:21.900 doable, jump in,

00:39:23.180 and that's probably

00:39:23.880 the best resource

00:39:25.640 for that.

00:39:26.820 And otherwise, I

00:39:27.580 guess I'm on

00:39:28.120 Instagram.

00:39:28.940 My publisher,

00:39:29.760 Canon Press, has a

00:39:30.580 lot of videos of

00:39:31.960 me doing various

00:39:32.900 things, but I have

00:39:34.520 no one-stop shop to

00:39:35.780 catch up with me.

00:39:36.640 Yes, follow, okay,

00:39:38.280 so it's, will you

00:39:39.580 repeat the URL?

00:39:41.440 Yes, Christkirk, it's

00:39:43.020 K-I-R-K, Christkirk.com

00:39:45.540 slash Bible

00:39:47.180 challenge, Bible

00:39:47.980 reading challenge.

00:39:48.580 Bible reading

00:39:49.180 challenge.

00:39:49.920 That's okay.

00:39:50.540 We'll double check

00:39:51.220 and we'll put it in

00:39:52.200 the description.

00:39:53.340 I like it, I can't

00:39:54.000 remember in this

00:39:55.000 moment.

00:39:55.520 That's okay.

00:39:56.240 And people can

00:39:57.020 follow you on

00:39:58.000 Instagram and check

00:39:59.260 out all of your

00:39:59.700 stuff.

00:39:59.880 And I think you

00:40:00.260 have a Facebook

00:40:00.720 page where people

00:40:01.440 can go to because

00:40:02.160 you post a lot of

00:40:02.800 things on there.

00:40:04.040 Okay.

00:40:04.440 I have an author

00:40:05.300 page on Facebook,

00:40:06.400 yeah.

00:40:06.860 Okay, perfect.

00:40:07.940 Well, thank you so

00:40:09.080 much, Rachel.

00:40:09.940 This was extremely

00:40:11.380 insightful and

00:40:12.260 encouraging and I

00:40:13.120 know people are

00:40:13.780 going to gain a lot

00:40:14.600 from this

00:40:15.060 conversation.

00:40:16.360 Great.

00:40:16.880 Well, nice to

00:40:17.480 chat with you,

00:40:18.160 Allie.

00:40:18.440 Allie.

00:40:18.780 Allie.

00:40:19.440 Allie.

00:40:19.940 Allie.

00:40:20.440 Allie.

00:40:20.940 Allie.

00:40:21.440 Allie.

00:40:22.440 Allie.

00:40:23.440 Allie.

00:40:24.440 Allie.

00:40:25.440 Allie.

00:40:26.440 Allie.

00:40:27.440 Allie.

00:40:28.440 Allie.

00:40:29.440 Allie.

00:40:30.440 Allie.

00:40:31.440 Allie.

00:40:32.440 Allie.

Relatable with Allie Beth Stuckey - December 13, 2019

Ep 197 ｜ How to Be a Godly Woman in an Ungodly World ｜ Guest： Rachel Jankovic

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