Relatable with Allie Beth Stuckey - Ep 211 ｜ The Dangers of the New Age

00:00:00.000 Hey guys, welcome to Relatable.

00:00:01.900 Happy Monday.

00:00:03.400 I am so excited about this conversation today

00:00:07.060 with Doreen Virtue.

00:00:08.180 We are going to talk about the new age.

00:00:11.480 She was completely in the new age,

00:00:14.760 teaching the new age, practicing the new age,

00:00:17.900 and then became a Christian

00:00:19.200 and her life is completely changed.

00:00:21.940 And she is going to lend us so much insight

00:00:24.760 about the self-empowerment movement

00:00:28.420 that is extremely popular today

00:00:31.120 and a lot of the ways that it's manifesting itself.

00:00:35.140 And it's probably going to surprise you a little bit.

00:00:38.380 It might even offend some of us just a little bit,

00:00:41.160 but that's okay.

00:00:42.100 I think that all of us are going to gain

00:00:45.500 tremendous insight for Doreen from Doreen.

00:00:49.240 So without further ado, here she is.

00:00:51.480 Doreen, thank you so much for joining me.

00:00:54.360 I'm really thrilled to be with you and everyone, Allie.

00:00:57.180 Will you tell us a little bit about who you are

00:01:00.840 and what you do?

00:01:02.840 Absolutely.

00:01:03.840 My main role these days is to warn people

00:01:07.220 about new age methods and practices and beliefs

00:01:10.900 that are so prevalent in our world today

00:01:13.440 and unfortunately have crept into our church.

00:01:16.560 I was raised in a heretical church

00:01:19.380 called Christian Science,

00:01:20.960 which is actually neither Christian nor scientific.

00:01:24.100 I didn't know I was in a false church.

00:01:26.760 No one told me.

00:01:29.200 It wasn't until after I got out

00:01:31.080 that people said,

00:01:31.840 oh yeah, by the way, you were in a false church.

00:01:33.580 But what happened was it led me into the new age

00:01:36.100 because the new age is very similar to Arianism

00:01:40.160 and a lot of the heresies

00:01:42.100 that still are prevalent today.

00:01:44.040 And I became a new age teacher is the bottom line.

00:01:50.720 I actually became the top selling new age author

00:01:53.400 at Hay House,

00:01:55.080 which is a huge new age publisher

00:01:57.760 that has Wayne Dyer,

00:02:00.300 Marianne Williamson,

00:02:01.660 Louise Hay,

00:02:02.480 Deepak Chopra.

00:02:03.620 I used to travel with all of them

00:02:05.120 for about 25 years around the world

00:02:07.320 giving new age workshops.

00:02:09.040 I was on Oprah, CNN, The View,

00:02:11.900 and I didn't know anything was wrong.

00:02:14.360 You know, I would hear sometimes

00:02:15.460 Christians criticize me,

00:02:17.200 but I didn't get it.

00:02:18.980 It wasn't until Jesus opened my eyes

00:02:20.980 and I finally read the whole Bible

00:02:22.580 that I understood that I was sinning terribly.

00:02:25.620 And then when I committed my life to Jesus

00:02:28.200 and got baptized and joined a church,

00:02:31.240 that's when I was shocked to see

00:02:32.640 that the new age was there too in the churches.

00:02:35.320 Wow.

00:02:35.800 So before we get into what the new age is,

00:02:38.860 because I do want to make sure

00:02:40.040 that we define that for the audience

00:02:42.460 who may not know,

00:02:44.040 can you tell me a little bit about Christian science?

00:02:47.060 Because I'm familiar a little bit

00:02:49.680 in a very superficial sense,

00:02:51.500 but what is Christian science

00:02:53.340 and why does it kind of lend itself to the new age?

00:02:57.820 Well, when you think of Joel Osteen,

00:03:00.160 you think of word of faith,

00:03:01.600 you think of name it and claim it, right?

00:03:03.980 You think of speak the magical words

00:03:06.400 and you'll have wealth.

00:03:08.060 Well, Christian science is the health counterpart to that.

00:03:11.200 Speak the magical words and you'll have health.

00:03:13.460 The whole thing is about manifesting health.

00:03:17.400 Christian science believes,

00:03:18.840 it takes scripture such as

00:03:20.360 we're made in the image and likeness of God

00:03:22.140 and twists it to say that,

00:03:24.400 therefore, no such thing as illness

00:03:27.500 could occur in this world.

00:03:29.040 No such thing as injury or accident.

00:03:30.740 It's just, it's an illusion.

00:03:31.720 So in that way, it's like Gnosticism.

00:03:34.040 It's denying the material world,

00:03:35.760 the human body and everything spirit.

00:03:39.080 And including having a very heretical view of Jesus as,

00:03:43.440 and I can barely say it now,

00:03:44.740 that he's just a man.

00:03:46.760 When my mother's still a Christian scientist

00:03:49.260 and she's moved in with my husband and I,

00:03:51.740 when she hears us say that Jesus is God,

00:03:54.340 she'll run out of the room, literally.

00:03:56.020 Wow.

00:03:56.360 Because that's heresy to Christian science.

00:03:58.600 It was a religion channeled by a woman,

00:04:02.400 Mary Baker Eddy,

00:04:03.260 so similar to some of the other false religions

00:04:05.920 that were channeled by one individual.

00:04:09.040 And like I said, I thought I was Christian.

00:04:11.440 My mom said we were Christian.

00:04:12.600 We had a King James Version,

00:04:14.060 only Bible in our house.

00:04:16.420 We would read every week.

00:04:17.520 We'd go to church twice a week,

00:04:19.460 Sundays and Wednesday testimonial meetings.

00:04:22.420 We used Christian terminology.

00:04:24.160 I had no reason to doubt that I was a Christian.

00:04:27.820 And like I said, no one told me.

00:04:29.640 So that's why I'm out there kind of upsetting people

00:04:32.860 and offending people by pointing out

00:04:34.980 that things aren't Christian when the world says it is.

00:04:40.260 Ellen DeGeneres, I heard in an interview,

00:04:43.120 was raised Christian science as well.

00:04:45.460 And now that you're explaining it,

00:04:46.920 it's kind of jogging my memory about the interview

00:04:48.940 that she did, I think, with David Letterman.

00:04:51.400 And not going to the doctor, like you said,

00:04:53.960 not taking any medicine.

00:04:56.520 And I do see how that correlates to this new age.

00:05:00.320 One word that you said that I hear so much,

00:05:03.200 even in the church, is manifest.

00:05:05.720 Pick a word and manifest it.

00:05:07.820 Speak it into being.

00:05:09.880 Would you say that that's kind of how you got into the new age

00:05:14.320 and started touring with people like Marianne Williamson,

00:05:16.860 that idea of manifesting what you speak?

00:05:20.040 Absolutely.

00:05:20.520 In fact, I was very ambitious.

00:05:24.020 And I learned later the danger of ambition

00:05:26.720 because the devil will swoop right in there.

00:05:30.020 And he's a sugar daddy.

00:05:31.220 He'll give you your wishes.

00:05:32.540 And you become an indentured servant to him.

00:05:34.860 And that's what happened to me.

00:05:36.280 I got all my wishes.

00:05:37.380 I was manifesting.

00:05:38.920 I even had books and tapes and, you know,

00:05:41.580 back when we had tapes and CDs and workshops on manifesting.

00:05:45.740 And the thing is, it worked, Allie.

00:05:48.260 It absolutely worked.

00:05:49.360 That's where I think that some of the hyper-charismatic teachers

00:05:52.360 are hooking their audience in because some of this does work.

00:05:56.260 But the thing is, it's like a desert mirage.

00:05:58.960 So you'll get your wishes for just a minute.

00:06:01.320 You'll never have satiation or satisfaction with them.

00:06:04.660 There's always that desire for more, more, more.

00:06:07.580 In fact, you'll see some of the hyper-charismatic so-called prophets say,

00:06:12.120 more, give me more, Lord, give me more, Lord.

00:06:14.480 That's the heart of the New Age is manifesting to get your life purpose,

00:06:19.880 your soulmate, more money, more abundance, they call it,

00:06:23.960 kind of soften because money sounds crass.

00:06:26.140 And so this ambitiousness is fueled by this belief that we do it ourselves.

00:06:34.200 The word God to a New Ager is akin to the universe, a universal energy,

00:06:39.820 not a personal God that we know that has love, justice, and mercy.

00:06:44.280 I didn't know God.

00:06:45.540 And so I turned to angels because they seemed more accessible.

00:06:50.540 And I became known as the angel lady who wrote about angels,

00:06:53.760 taught about angels as another means of manifesting.

00:06:57.340 I saw them as wish planters, tragically,

00:07:00.760 because I hadn't read the whole Bible.

00:07:02.440 I had just read, you know, the Luke, the Annunciation.

00:07:06.820 And I didn't really understand the biblical view of angels

00:07:10.540 until after I read the whole Bible.

00:07:12.920 And, of course, I've repented deep sorrow to God

00:07:17.380 for teaching what I taught

00:07:20.160 and then doing lots of videos and blogs and articles and interviews

00:07:24.960 to tell people that nowhere in the Bible does it say

00:07:27.940 that we as humans go to angels and ask for wishes.

00:07:31.940 Nowhere in the Bible does it say we call on angels

00:07:34.060 to get a parking place or to get anything.

00:07:37.260 God sends angels.

00:07:38.980 And the Bible also says in 2 Corinthians 11-14

00:07:41.840 that Satan will manifest,

00:07:45.400 will him masquerade as an angel of light.

00:07:48.760 And so we have to be super careful

00:07:50.680 when we're dealing with angels

00:07:52.860 because a lot of it is demons in disguise.

00:07:56.140 Can you tell us how you transitioned

00:07:58.540 into making the new age a career?

00:08:03.580 It just happened.

00:08:05.000 Again, I was very ambitious.

00:08:06.380 Right outside of college,

00:08:09.460 I got a B.A. and M.A. in psychology.

00:08:12.160 And I became a psychotherapist

00:08:13.500 specializing in treating addictions in hospitals

00:08:17.100 and eating disorders outpatient.

00:08:19.740 And I started writing about my practice.

00:08:22.300 And my book did very well.

00:08:25.360 I went on quite a few talk shows with that.

00:08:27.320 So I was already out in the public arena

00:08:28.980 as a psychotherapist.

00:08:30.820 And then it just kind of morphed into the new age.

00:08:36.700 Psychology and motivational speaking,

00:08:39.360 inspirational speaking,

00:08:40.620 and new age is a very blurred continuum.

00:08:43.280 And it just went more and more in that direction.

00:08:47.040 I'm really looking back

00:08:48.300 and looking at other people, Allie,

00:08:50.040 I think that deception is progressive,

00:08:53.500 like how a progressive disease gets worse and worse.

00:08:56.940 There's this tolerance that you get to your experiences.

00:09:01.480 So it's like if someone works in a donut bakery.

00:09:05.420 They don't smell donuts after a while.

00:09:08.000 Or even in our own house,

00:09:09.800 we don't see the artwork or the sofa anymore.

00:09:12.820 We habituate to it.

00:09:14.780 And with the new age manifesting the self-glory,

00:09:21.320 which is a big heart of the new age,

00:09:23.120 where we glorify ourselves instead of God,

00:09:25.480 you start to get bored with where you're at

00:09:29.060 and you want more,

00:09:29.840 you want a deeper experience.

00:09:31.300 There are so many people that I've talked to

00:09:33.540 who started with wanting to be healed.

00:09:36.900 So they entered the new age

00:09:38.380 thinking they could get a healing of some sorts,

00:09:41.100 mostly physical, sometimes emotional,

00:09:43.080 or that they could find their soulmate this way

00:09:45.520 or have a personality test,

00:09:47.520 you know, some sort of curiosity.

00:09:50.260 The devil holds out this little carrot.

00:09:51.920 And then years later,

00:09:54.500 they wake up and they've become Wiccans or witches

00:09:57.380 because they followed that breadcrumb trail

00:10:00.020 of more and more intense and adrenaline-filled experiences.

00:10:04.340 The new age is all about experience,

00:10:06.340 which is what reminds me of the hyper-charismatic churches.

00:10:09.580 Yes.

00:10:10.180 So I know a little bit about the origins of the new age.

00:10:14.420 Now, it's always manifested itself.

00:10:16.860 If we recognize that it originates with Satan,

00:10:19.780 of course, it's always manifested itself

00:10:21.340 at some point in some way throughout history.

00:10:23.860 But when you read about the history of psychology

00:10:26.460 and really self-introspective psychology,

00:10:31.140 Carl Jung, or is that how you pronounce his last name?

00:10:34.640 Kind of bringing the popularity of personality tests

00:10:38.800 and the Enneagram and all of that to the United States.

00:10:42.180 Would you say that that's kind of how it came to the West

00:10:46.200 and started to become so popular here?

00:10:48.200 Or can you pinpoint when this became the trend that it is today?

00:10:53.760 Well, when I look at the Old Testament,

00:10:55.940 I see the new age in the Old Testament.

00:10:58.280 And one word, idolatry.

00:11:00.880 Romans 1 just captured it.

00:11:02.560 We traded the creator for the creation.

00:11:06.080 And so the golden calf is a symbol of a new age to me.

00:11:09.720 It's that not trusting that Moses will come back down off the mountain,

00:11:13.820 not trusting that God will help you.

00:11:15.780 So I'd better do it myself.

00:11:19.040 Yeah, I totally agree with you.

00:11:21.980 And I've never thought about it that way of it being in the Old Testament.

00:11:25.680 How do you see some of what I would say is innocuous,

00:11:32.600 or they feel like it's innocuous,

00:11:34.280 some of these motivational speakers

00:11:35.940 and even people claiming to be Christian authors

00:11:39.100 focusing on self-empowerment,

00:11:42.760 focusing on self-help and self-love and self-esteem

00:11:46.200 as the answer to all of our problems.

00:11:48.620 I mean, I think of people like Brene Brown,

00:11:50.660 people like Rachel Hollis,

00:11:51.920 that I do think probably have really good intentions,

00:11:54.840 but are all focused on the self.

00:11:56.660 Would you say that is under the umbrella of the new age

00:12:00.320 that you're familiar with?

00:12:02.160 Definitely.

00:12:03.140 In fact, that's one of the biggest arguments

00:12:04.960 that I pose to people who try to say

00:12:08.300 that they can blend the new age with Christianity.

00:12:11.660 They think there's nothing wrong with it,

00:12:13.760 is that they're polar opposites.

00:12:15.560 And it starts with that very premise that you just mentioned,

00:12:18.880 is that one Christian is glorifying God,

00:12:22.100 all glory to God.

00:12:23.840 And new age, motivational speaking, inspiration,

00:12:27.340 is all about glorifying the self.

00:12:29.240 Look, a lot of the new agers that I met

00:12:31.300 over the 25 years that I was touring around the world

00:12:34.220 were very broken.

00:12:36.700 They were traumatized.

00:12:38.100 They'd come from abusive families.

00:12:40.200 They'd been abandoned.

00:12:41.440 They'd had alcoholism and drug addiction issues.

00:12:44.900 They were divorced multiple times.

00:12:47.700 And so they were looking for something

00:12:49.360 to feel good about themselves.

00:12:51.200 And the new age seems to offer that,

00:12:53.320 along with the new age type of Christianity

00:12:56.340 that is all about affirming,

00:12:58.600 I'm perfect, I'm whole, I'm complete.

00:13:00.840 That's a real buzz phrase in the new age.

00:13:03.560 I'm perfect, whole, and complete.

00:13:04.960 I'm made in the image of likeness of God.

00:13:07.180 And everybody's a child of God,

00:13:09.060 according to the new age.

00:13:10.340 Right, right.

00:13:11.180 We hear that a lot.

00:13:12.040 And not just from people

00:13:13.660 who purport to be in the new age,

00:13:15.060 but I mean, and I would say most people

00:13:17.280 who are in the new age

00:13:18.280 do not purport to be in the new age at all.

00:13:21.500 Like you said, they claim to be Christians

00:13:23.780 and articulating scripture.

00:13:27.080 And I think what I've seen

00:13:28.200 is that a lot of these people

00:13:29.340 who are trying to wed the new age

00:13:30.440 with Christianity,

00:13:31.000 they use a verse like,

00:13:33.060 well, Jesus says to love your neighbor as yourself.

00:13:35.120 So that means that before I can do anything else,

00:13:37.720 I need to love myself

00:13:39.980 and I need to empower myself

00:13:41.540 and help myself and heal myself

00:13:42.940 and care for myself and all of these things.

00:13:45.120 And then that's when I can maybe start thinking

00:13:47.980 about obediently, you know, following Jesus.

00:13:51.280 But that's a lie, isn't it?

00:13:53.220 It totally is.

00:13:54.160 Yeah, loving the self,

00:13:55.500 it actually is never in the Bible

00:13:57.140 to love yourself.

00:13:58.900 Jesus' royal commandments,

00:14:00.740 people forget the part where he said,

00:14:02.520 on these two commandments,

00:14:05.880 hang all the prophecy and the law.

00:14:08.160 They forget that part of the sentence.

00:14:10.280 And so what that means

00:14:11.320 is that when we look at the moral laws,

00:14:14.400 the Ten Commandments,

00:14:15.740 they can be summarized with loving God

00:14:18.160 and loving other people.

00:14:20.000 And so it doesn't discount those moral laws.

00:14:22.280 We're still on the hook,

00:14:23.440 even if we're not believers.

00:14:25.220 And so it means we need to,

00:14:26.500 first of all,

00:14:27.240 take a look at the first commandment

00:14:28.620 that you shall have no other gods before God.

00:14:32.520 With a capital G.

00:14:33.560 So that means no idolatry.

00:14:35.040 Commandment two, no idolatry.

00:14:37.200 And when you love yourself,

00:14:38.380 you're idolizing yourself.

00:14:39.540 You're putting yourself as a God

00:14:41.160 before our creator.

00:14:43.520 And a lot of people respond to that by saying,

00:14:46.420 you know, taking it to the other extreme by saying,

00:14:48.460 so you're saying I'm supposed to hate myself.

00:14:50.440 You're saying that I'm never supposed to

00:14:52.620 sleep or rest or get my nails done.

00:14:55.260 And of course, that's not what we're saying.

00:14:57.960 That is not what the Bible says.

00:14:59.520 The opposite of self-love is not self-deprecation

00:15:03.340 and self-loathing,

00:15:04.360 which is really just the other side

00:15:07.280 of the self-obsessive coin,

00:15:09.180 because still you're idolizing yourself

00:15:11.080 in the midst of self-deprecation

00:15:12.620 and self-loathing

00:15:13.420 and constantly thinking about yourself,

00:15:15.280 self-victimization and things like that.

00:15:17.520 The opposite of that is self-forgetfulness

00:15:20.220 and self-sacrifice and self-denial.

00:15:22.680 That is what Jesus calls us to, correct?

00:15:25.880 That's right.

00:15:26.500 Yeah, absolutely.

00:15:27.720 It's self-deprecating behavior

00:15:29.840 and talking often is an attention-seeking behavior.

00:15:33.060 You're wanting people's sympathy.

00:15:34.480 You're wanting attention.

00:15:35.780 And so again, that's wanting yourself

00:15:38.540 to get the glory.

00:15:39.980 And we just have to be honest.

00:15:42.440 I mean, what happens is when we're saved,

00:15:45.280 we hate sin and we grieve over sin.

00:15:49.220 That was the big turning point for me

00:15:51.760 when I finally realized I was a sinner

00:15:53.840 was when I could be saved.

00:15:56.240 Before then, I was bulletproof to being saved.

00:15:59.820 And that's my concern

00:16:00.820 in people going into false churches

00:16:02.700 that have New Age elements

00:16:04.100 or being in the New Age

00:16:06.480 is that both of those type of thinking

00:16:10.580 of belief systems say that we're perfect.

00:16:13.680 God made us perfect.

00:16:15.040 And in fact, in the New Age,

00:16:16.420 and there's a book in the New Age

00:16:17.820 that's referred to as the New Age Bible

00:16:20.300 called A Course in Miracles.

00:16:22.180 That's what Marianne Williamson got famous for.

00:16:24.640 That's what she went on Oprah for

00:16:26.120 originally that launched her career.

00:16:28.120 This book, A Course in Miracles,

00:16:29.980 that supposedly is channeled

00:16:32.100 by a woman named Helen Shookman

00:16:33.940 who was a psychotherapist

00:16:35.940 who heard a voice that said

00:16:37.840 it was Jesus explaining

00:16:39.180 what he meant in the Bible.

00:16:40.860 And the New Agers just lap this book up.

00:16:43.600 I mean, everyone reads it.

00:16:45.620 And that book says

00:16:46.640 that there's no such thing as sin.

00:16:48.560 There's no such thing as the devil

00:16:49.880 except for the human ego

00:16:51.260 and that there was no crucifixion.

00:16:54.080 And so what happens is that

00:16:55.540 how can you be saved

00:16:56.820 unless you know that you need a savior?

00:16:58.920 If you follow the New Age,

00:17:00.740 you'll be convinced

00:17:01.460 that you're your own savior.

00:17:03.180 And that's dangerous.

00:17:04.740 Right.

00:17:05.080 And now that you say that,

00:17:06.900 I realize that that really is the lie

00:17:09.840 that is underneath all progressive,

00:17:14.360 so to speak, liberal theology

00:17:17.180 and liberal Christianity

00:17:18.400 is this problem with the idea of sin.

00:17:22.240 It's this idea in the New Age

00:17:24.180 and also I would argue in liberal theology

00:17:26.420 that who you are on the inside

00:17:28.400 is actually perfect,

00:17:29.960 except for if you just have to throw out

00:17:32.520 all of these societal standards,

00:17:34.140 you just have to throw out expectations,

00:17:35.720 you just have to throw out condemnation,

00:17:38.740 judgment.

00:17:39.320 If you get rid of all of these things

00:17:40.920 and you just live your true authentic self,

00:17:43.440 that's really what Jesus wants you to do.

00:17:45.380 Well, Jesus just wants you to be who you want to be,

00:17:48.060 be happy according to your definition of happiness.

00:17:51.240 That's what Christianity is really all about.

00:17:53.460 That's New Age Christianity.

00:17:54.840 It aligns very closely with liberal theology,

00:17:57.520 but that's not what the Bible says.

00:17:59.100 The Bible says in Ephesians 2

00:18:00.280 that we are dead in the trespasses

00:18:02.420 and sins of which we once walked,

00:18:03.760 following the course of this world,

00:18:04.800 following the prince of the power of the air.

00:18:06.460 And according to the Bible,

00:18:08.200 there are two categories.

00:18:09.300 You are alive in Christ

00:18:10.300 or you are dead in your sin.

00:18:11.760 And it seems like the New Age

00:18:13.540 completely discards that dichotomy.

00:18:15.380 That is biblical.

00:18:16.180 Even New Age Christianity and says,

00:18:18.160 no, no, no, no, no.

00:18:19.140 Who you truly are is good.

00:18:21.620 You're good to the core

00:18:23.060 and you are worthy

00:18:24.400 and you are deserving of all of God's love.

00:18:26.860 Like you said, you're already a child of God.

00:18:28.980 You don't have to do anything,

00:18:31.060 believe anything.

00:18:32.340 Everything is all fine and dandy and good.

00:18:36.100 And that's obviously,

00:18:39.500 as we both know, a dangerous lie.

00:18:41.380 Yeah, exactly.

00:18:44.200 It's the New Age says tolerance is love

00:18:47.960 and that if you have any intolerance,

00:18:50.760 such as the Bible has,

00:18:52.600 that that's hate.

00:18:53.780 And so that's the danger

00:18:55.020 that we're going to see

00:18:55.960 in the years coming up

00:18:58.960 and that I see politically

00:19:00.800 is if there's a liberal majority

00:19:05.060 taking over,

00:19:07.680 you know,

00:19:08.420 they're going to point to the Bible

00:19:10.280 as being intolerant,

00:19:11.400 so therefore hateful and unloving

00:19:13.620 is going to be called hate speech.

00:19:15.320 So that's what Jesus is all about.

00:19:18.600 When I was in the New Age,

00:19:20.140 I thought that I was following Jesus.

00:19:22.120 It turned out I was following

00:19:23.140 the false Christ

00:19:24.220 that Jesus warned about

00:19:25.440 in the latter days.

00:19:26.400 And the false Jesus says,

00:19:30.340 I love everything,

00:19:31.380 I love everyone,

00:19:32.700 and kind of does this swoop

00:19:34.740 on what you said

00:19:35.860 on the greatest commandment

00:19:36.880 to love people

00:19:37.760 and says that if you love people,

00:19:40.540 then anything they do is fine.

00:19:43.120 You know, so just accept them

00:19:45.740 as they are,

00:19:46.500 which is actually the most unloving thing

00:19:48.360 we can do

00:19:48.880 when we understand the biblical truth

00:19:50.460 because that's leading them to hell

00:19:53.200 through the wide path.

00:19:55.400 The narrow gate

00:19:56.780 is a gate of realizing

00:19:59.600 that we're sinners.

00:20:01.600 And when I realized that,

00:20:03.300 it was actually such a relief

00:20:04.780 to realize that I needed God

00:20:07.620 and who God was

00:20:08.640 and I needed Jesus to save me

00:20:10.820 and steer my life

00:20:11.780 that when I looked back on my life

00:20:13.600 that I had done a horrible job

00:20:15.480 of being my own God.

00:20:17.920 And so I quit.

00:20:19.660 God, take over the will, please.

00:20:21.280 And it was scary

00:20:22.060 because I was super successful

00:20:24.760 in the new age.

00:20:25.800 I was making a ton of money,

00:20:27.280 spending a ton of money

00:20:28.240 because I had employees.

00:20:29.780 I had friends

00:20:30.940 who I would take on

00:20:31.700 first-class vacations everywhere.

00:20:33.580 I had this big ranch

00:20:34.940 filled with animals.

00:20:36.020 I was feeding them

00:20:36.720 and taxes galore

00:20:39.460 that I was paying.

00:20:40.380 And I had to walk away

00:20:41.740 from all that

00:20:42.480 in complete trust

00:20:43.640 that God would help me

00:20:45.140 without me doing my old

00:20:47.140 schtick of manifesting

00:20:48.600 to make money.

00:20:49.560 And then these job offers

00:20:51.160 kept coming in saying,

00:20:52.840 well, here,

00:20:54.120 you can work for me.

00:20:55.380 You can work for me.

00:20:56.380 And it was all painted

00:20:57.760 with the new age, though.

00:20:58.800 So I had to keep saying no

00:21:00.120 to these job offers.

00:21:01.440 My husband went back to work

00:21:02.920 to help pay for us.

00:21:04.140 We had to move.

00:21:05.500 We lived in Hawaii.

00:21:06.840 We moved to the Pacific Northwest,

00:21:08.380 which now I like it,

00:21:09.340 but in the beginning

00:21:09.920 it felt like punishment

00:21:11.000 to go to the snow from Hawaii.

00:21:14.020 And so the beautiful thing

00:21:16.940 that happened was

00:21:17.880 I was just talking about

00:21:19.760 the truth,

00:21:21.480 the biblical truth

00:21:22.280 on social media.

00:21:23.640 And I was getting

00:21:24.280 so much backlash.

00:21:25.460 I still do.

00:21:26.340 But in the beginning

00:21:26.940 it was horrible.

00:21:27.600 It was all of these

00:21:28.900 so-called people

00:21:30.420 of the love and light

00:21:31.460 new age

00:21:32.000 hating on me,

00:21:33.520 making these rude videos

00:21:34.920 about me,

00:21:35.500 making up stories about me,

00:21:36.860 writing cuss-filled letters.

00:21:39.300 Yeah.

00:21:39.440 I mean, it was just

00:21:40.060 horrible persecution.

00:21:41.400 But in the midst of that,

00:21:43.520 Thomas Nelson Publishers

00:21:44.960 wrote me and said,

00:21:46.640 we like your story.

00:21:47.840 We want you to write a book.

00:21:49.840 And so it was,

00:21:51.400 it just,

00:21:52.040 it just showed

00:21:53.020 you trust in the Lord

00:21:54.580 with all your heart.

00:21:55.700 Lean not on your own understanding

00:21:56.960 and He'll make straight your path.

00:21:58.700 And, you know,

00:21:59.180 Proverbs 3, 5 through 6,

00:22:00.820 just that God's promises

00:22:02.540 are true.

00:22:03.680 And so I'm so glad

00:22:04.780 I didn't cave

00:22:05.660 to saying yes

00:22:08.440 to some of these

00:22:09.000 job offers I got

00:22:09.980 that were tainted

00:22:10.620 with the new age.

00:22:11.400 And then when I was

00:22:13.060 writing this book,

00:22:13.840 I thought,

00:22:14.180 can I really tell

00:22:14.960 the whole truth?

00:22:15.560 Because Thomas Nelson

00:22:16.320 publishes some

00:22:17.580 of these authors

00:22:19.040 that I don't agree with.

00:22:20.920 And so God in His Providence

00:22:23.160 gave me an editor

00:22:24.540 at Thomas Nelson,

00:22:25.640 excuse me,

00:22:26.420 gave me an editor

00:22:28.500 at Thomas Nelson

00:22:29.280 who has a very

00:22:31.140 conservative background.

00:22:32.580 And she gets it.

00:22:33.920 And so I was able

00:22:34.560 to just completely

00:22:35.900 speak the truth

00:22:37.300 with discernment.

00:22:39.900 I'm sorry.

00:22:40.600 I was able to

00:22:42.320 completely speak

00:22:43.340 the truth

00:22:43.760 with discernment

00:22:44.580 and my book,

00:22:45.120 Deceive No More,

00:22:46.260 comes out in July.

00:22:47.960 And so praise the Lord.

00:22:49.180 Yeah, I'm able

00:22:49.940 to talk about these things.

00:22:51.580 I mean, it's been

00:22:52.080 at a price.

00:22:52.720 I've got a couple

00:22:53.740 of family members

00:22:54.640 who won't speak

00:22:55.420 to me at all anymore,

00:22:56.840 which is so hurtful

00:22:58.000 because they say

00:22:59.240 I'm not a real Christian

00:23:00.240 or I would love

00:23:01.480 everyone with tolerance.

00:23:04.080 Yeah.

00:23:04.200 So this is real embedded.

00:23:05.980 I walk through Walmart

00:23:06.980 or Target

00:23:07.680 and I can see

00:23:08.320 New Age slogans

00:23:09.340 on kids' T-shirts

00:23:10.740 and everywhere

00:23:12.820 on boxes of Kleenex.

00:23:14.760 I mean,

00:23:15.160 the New Age motto

00:23:16.920 is believe in yourself.

00:23:18.660 Mm-hmm.

00:23:19.620 It never says

00:23:20.580 believe in God.

00:23:21.600 Right.

00:23:22.220 Okay, I want to

00:23:23.080 back up just a little bit.

00:23:25.060 And if you could explain

00:23:26.740 how you came to Christ,

00:23:29.120 what made you realize,

00:23:30.280 wow, okay,

00:23:30.780 I thought I was a Christian

00:23:31.760 this whole time

00:23:32.540 and this is not Christianity.

00:23:35.760 Yeah, it was a slow process.

00:23:38.680 You know,

00:23:39.360 thinking I was a Christian

00:23:40.480 my whole life,

00:23:41.160 I've listened to Christian radio

00:23:42.680 my whole life.

00:23:43.560 That's the irony.

00:23:44.740 When I lived in California,

00:23:46.020 I used to listen to Chuck Smith,

00:23:48.100 Calvary Chapel guys.

00:23:49.920 When I was in Hawaii,

00:23:51.180 I was listening to

00:23:52.080 Christian Satellite Network.

00:23:54.180 And because the New Age

00:23:55.760 told me I wasn't a sinner,

00:23:57.520 the gospel made no sense to me.

00:23:59.380 What do you mean

00:24:00.060 Jesus died for my sins?

00:24:02.760 I'm,

00:24:03.340 what sin?

00:24:04.720 I mean,

00:24:05.260 why did he have to die?

00:24:06.920 It made no sense.

00:24:07.940 Everything else I love,

00:24:09.660 but they're on Jan,

00:24:10.660 in January of 2015,

00:24:13.060 I'm driving down a highway

00:24:14.460 in Hawaii,

00:24:15.560 listening to Christian

00:24:16.280 Satellite Network.

00:24:17.820 Alistair Begg comes on

00:24:19.240 and they start to cry.

00:24:21.660 And I just pray

00:24:22.360 I get a chance

00:24:22.960 to tell him this someday.

00:24:24.820 But he had

00:24:25.760 an expository sermon

00:24:28.300 about itching ears.

00:24:30.240 And it was all about

00:24:33.020 false prophecy.

00:24:34.020 And as I was listening to him,

00:24:35.140 it pierced my heart,

00:24:36.340 Allie.

00:24:36.920 He got through to me.

00:24:39.340 And I was convicted

00:24:40.620 that I was a false prophet

00:24:42.220 and that I was itching

00:24:44.260 people's ears

00:24:44.840 and giving them false hope.

00:24:46.720 And I listened to that

00:24:47.860 and it changed everything for me.

00:24:49.840 I wasn't saved,

00:24:51.200 but I went home

00:24:52.040 and I told my husband,

00:24:52.980 you know,

00:24:53.580 I need to make some changes.

00:24:55.440 I want to go to church.

00:24:56.700 My husband was raised Methodist.

00:24:58.220 He was baptized at age 12,

00:24:59.760 but he was lukewarm,

00:25:01.540 maybe not even saved.

00:25:02.620 He was in the New Age with me.

00:25:05.020 And so we started to go to church.

00:25:08.400 I pulled back on

00:25:10.020 consciously giving people

00:25:11.500 false hope

00:25:12.220 because in the New Age,

00:25:13.360 you always say,

00:25:14.260 oh, the worst is behind you.

00:25:15.800 Everything's going to turn out fine.

00:25:17.340 Of course,

00:25:17.960 God's going to heal your cancer.

00:25:19.560 I mean,

00:25:19.700 you say things like that

00:25:20.660 in the New Age

00:25:21.140 and you believe it.

00:25:23.460 In fact,

00:25:23.940 you won't allow yourself

00:25:25.360 to have disbelief

00:25:26.500 in the New Age

00:25:27.020 because the New Age

00:25:28.100 is all about

00:25:28.820 positive thinking.

00:25:30.560 In fact,

00:25:30.820 if there's a Ten Commandments

00:25:32.140 for the New Age,

00:25:33.140 number one commandment

00:25:34.480 would,

00:25:35.040 thou shalt always be positive.

00:25:37.260 So you don't allow yourself

00:25:38.200 to think about sin

00:25:39.240 or poverty or disease.

00:25:42.020 You kind of live

00:25:42.940 in this fantasy bubble world

00:25:44.440 that God's going to rescue you

00:25:45.700 at the last minute

00:25:46.360 and then people wonder

00:25:47.280 why they're suffering.

00:25:48.820 They think God has abandoned them

00:25:50.120 if they're suffering.

00:25:50.780 They don't realize

00:25:51.500 that God allows

00:25:52.840 some suffering

00:25:53.540 so that we will bend

00:25:55.040 toward Him.

00:25:56.720 And so we went to church

00:25:58.880 and kind of was,

00:26:01.400 we were doing church shopping.

00:26:02.680 We had no idea

00:26:03.560 where to go.

00:26:04.620 You know,

00:26:04.800 we tried,

00:26:05.720 Methodist church

00:26:06.360 wasn't anywhere around us,

00:26:07.720 but we went to

00:26:08.440 a Pentecostal church

00:26:09.620 which was wild.

00:26:11.260 We ended up

00:26:11.760 at an Episcopalian church

00:26:13.200 for two years

00:26:14.020 which was,

00:26:14.960 I always say

00:26:15.660 it was a soft landing place

00:26:17.740 out of the New Age.

00:26:18.580 I don't think I,

00:26:19.240 now I'm a Baptist.

00:26:20.000 I couldn't have gone

00:26:20.880 straight into a Baptist church

00:26:22.400 out of the New Age.

00:26:23.620 It would have been

00:26:24.140 a culture shock.

00:26:26.220 Yeah.

00:26:27.600 Chris Roseboe said

00:26:28.640 it was my halfway house

00:26:29.800 to go to Episcopalian.

00:26:31.180 Yeah.

00:26:31.980 Yeah.

00:26:32.880 Well,

00:26:33.060 I'm so glad,

00:26:33.520 I'm glad you didn't stop there.

00:26:35.100 Not that all Episcopalians,

00:26:36.720 I'm sure,

00:26:37.740 are like the church

00:26:39.700 that you attended.

00:26:40.520 I'm guessing the church

00:26:41.220 that you attended

00:26:41.820 wasn't necessarily

00:26:43.840 biblically based.

00:26:45.460 I'm sure there are people

00:26:46.280 that identify as Episcopalians

00:26:47.800 who do believe

00:26:48.720 that the Bible

00:26:49.160 is the inerrant word of God

00:26:50.340 but Episcopalian churches

00:26:51.940 tend to be more

00:26:52.860 liberal theologically.

00:26:54.100 Just a note to my audience

00:26:55.640 who may not know.

00:26:57.060 Yes,

00:26:57.340 it was extremely liberal.

00:27:00.180 The Bible study classes

00:27:02.060 that Michael and I

00:27:03.140 attended,

00:27:04.220 the teacher

00:27:04.820 who was

00:27:06.200 an Episcopalian priest

00:27:07.840 and a Catholic priest

00:27:08.900 said that the Bible

00:27:10.220 was filled with errors

00:27:11.340 and he would argue

00:27:12.460 that a lot of the books

00:27:13.300 of the Bible

00:27:13.700 shouldn't have been in it.

00:27:15.220 You know,

00:27:15.460 so there was a few people

00:27:17.940 in the class

00:27:18.480 who would pull me aside

00:27:19.480 and say,

00:27:19.780 don't listen to that part.

00:27:21.820 And they would quote

00:27:22.840 2 Timothy 3.16.

00:27:24.300 All scriptures

00:27:25.220 God breathed to me.

00:27:26.780 So it got me used to

00:27:29.000 doing a few things

00:27:30.220 at the Episcopalian church.

00:27:31.360 It got me used to

00:27:32.140 going to church

00:27:32.940 every Sunday again

00:27:34.680 and it got me used

00:27:35.780 to going to Bible study

00:27:36.840 and still I was unsaved.

00:27:39.500 I would go to church

00:27:40.520 and I would go home

00:27:41.320 and use tarot cards.

00:27:43.360 So I didn't know.

00:27:44.660 There was people

00:27:45.180 in the church

00:27:45.640 who were doing

00:27:46.220 Reiki,

00:27:46.800 energy healing,

00:27:47.700 and yoga.

00:27:48.560 There was a yoga studio

00:27:49.500 on the church campus.

00:27:51.700 And then my priest

00:27:53.240 sent me to a spiritual director

00:27:55.660 who said I didn't need

00:27:56.560 to change anything

00:27:57.400 to be a Christian.

00:27:59.000 She said I could still

00:27:59.760 do cards,

00:28:00.600 I could use crystals

00:28:01.460 for healing.

00:28:03.120 I mean,

00:28:03.280 she told me I was fine.

00:28:05.640 So I was very confused

00:28:07.040 in the beginning.

00:28:08.180 And I was doing

00:28:09.540 weekly YouTube

00:28:11.280 videos.

00:28:12.060 My YouTube videos

00:28:12.980 were super popular.

00:28:14.440 180,000 views

00:28:15.720 minimum per week

00:28:17.200 on my YouTube videos.

00:28:19.260 My Facebook page,

00:28:20.800 4 million viewers

00:28:22.060 or followers.

00:28:23.160 I'm not saying this

00:28:23.800 to brag.

00:28:24.480 I'm just saying

00:28:24.900 that I had a lot

00:28:25.540 of eyes on me.

00:28:26.800 And I'm a real

00:28:28.260 transparent person.

00:28:29.240 So I'm talking

00:28:29.880 about all this

00:28:30.500 to everyone.

00:28:31.400 I'm saying,

00:28:31.740 oh yes,

00:28:32.380 I'm going to church

00:28:33.560 and here's the Bible.

00:28:34.920 And people who

00:28:35.820 were Christians

00:28:37.160 said,

00:28:38.940 I don't think

00:28:39.420 she's saved.

00:28:40.520 She's still doing cards.

00:28:41.780 She's still talking

00:28:42.460 like a New Ager.

00:28:43.460 And they thought

00:28:44.100 I was thinking

00:28:44.780 that to be a Christian.

00:28:45.880 The truth was

00:28:46.660 I was a weak Christian.

00:28:47.700 I didn't know

00:28:48.320 any better.

00:28:49.220 And that's what I see

00:28:50.120 a lot of

00:28:51.000 that's going on

00:28:52.180 right now

00:28:52.540 is people

00:28:52.940 don't know

00:28:53.720 the difference

00:28:54.100 between New Age

00:28:54.860 and Christianity.

00:28:55.820 So that's why

00:28:56.340 people like you

00:28:57.340 and me

00:28:57.840 and there's quite

00:29:00.360 a few of us

00:29:00.860 discernment ministers.

00:29:01.940 Justin Peters

00:29:02.720 are out there.

00:29:05.020 Who else?

00:29:05.540 Todd Friel

00:29:06.060 talking about

00:29:07.500 and Chris Rosebrough

00:29:09.100 fighting for the faith.

00:29:10.060 So the discernment ministers

00:29:11.300 were the ones

00:29:12.620 who really helped me

00:29:13.520 to see.

00:29:14.420 But the moment

00:29:15.860 I got saved

00:29:16.560 I remember it

00:29:17.300 was when I was

00:29:17.920 reading the Bible

00:29:18.720 I got the

00:29:21.620 one year Bible

00:29:22.400 my son actually

00:29:23.900 gave this to me

00:29:24.700 as a gift

00:29:25.320 and this

00:29:26.520 this is how

00:29:27.760 I first read the Bible

00:29:29.000 you can see

00:29:29.360 it's dog-eared

00:29:30.040 I've read this

00:29:30.620 three times

00:29:31.240 and now I read

00:29:32.040 the ESV

00:29:32.720 every morning

00:29:33.700 and I'm in seminary

00:29:35.100 but when I got

00:29:36.680 to Deuteronomy 18

00:29:38.040 verses 10 through 12

00:29:39.740 and this is

00:29:40.300 Moses' last speech

00:29:42.080 to the Israelites

00:29:42.980 before they're going

00:29:44.100 to cross the Jordan River.

00:29:45.980 Moses is not going

00:29:46.740 to go with them

00:29:47.420 because he sinned

00:29:48.720 and he's

00:29:50.080 recounting

00:29:51.080 the moral laws

00:29:51.880 and expanding

00:29:52.460 on each of them

00:29:53.040 in other words

00:29:53.520 he's taking

00:29:54.500 the Ten Commandments

00:29:55.500 and he's breaking

00:29:56.280 them down

00:29:56.680 and explaining

00:29:57.240 them to the Israelites

00:29:58.580 and in this section

00:30:00.300 Deuteronomy 18

00:30:01.340 Moses is explaining

00:30:02.520 to them

00:30:03.020 you can't be

00:30:04.280 like the Canaanites

00:30:05.320 you can't be

00:30:06.560 like the people

00:30:07.240 who are in the

00:30:07.780 promised land

00:30:08.360 that I am

00:30:09.180 commanding you

00:30:09.740 to drive out

00:30:10.500 and those

00:30:11.520 those Canaanites

00:30:12.800 they are

00:30:13.600 sacrificing their children

00:30:15.360 they're burning

00:30:16.040 their children

00:30:16.680 and I don't

00:30:17.360 want you

00:30:17.600 to do that

00:30:18.080 and I also

00:30:18.600 don't want you

00:30:19.320 to use divination

00:30:21.540 like they do

00:30:22.220 I don't want you

00:30:22.880 to do fortune telling

00:30:23.980 like they do

00:30:24.560 I don't want you

00:30:25.100 to do witchcraft

00:30:26.340 I don't want you

00:30:26.940 to do sorcery

00:30:27.940 I don't want you

00:30:29.180 to find signs

00:30:31.020 and omens

00:30:31.980 I don't want you

00:30:32.980 to do mediumship

00:30:34.100 and so

00:30:35.040 Deuteronomy 18

00:30:36.360 10 through 12

00:30:38.640 is this list

00:30:39.900 of what the New Age

00:30:40.860 is about

00:30:41.240 I didn't of course

00:30:42.560 burn my children

00:30:43.480 like that

00:30:45.100 but all the other

00:30:46.380 things in that list

00:30:47.620 I did

00:30:48.400 and then

00:30:48.860 the end of that

00:30:49.540 passage

00:30:50.100 Ali

00:30:50.440 it says

00:30:50.880 all of these

00:30:51.980 things

00:30:52.260 I find the people

00:30:53.720 abominations

00:30:55.140 who do this

00:30:55.820 not the practices

00:30:56.600 the people

00:30:57.600 who do fortune telling

00:30:59.600 the people

00:31:00.140 who do sorcery

00:31:01.160 the people

00:31:01.540 who do witchcraft

00:31:02.320 the people

00:31:02.720 who do divination

00:31:04.060 interpret signs

00:31:05.500 and omens

00:31:06.180 do mediumship

00:31:07.580 receiving or giving

00:31:08.780 mediumship

00:31:09.620 those people

00:31:10.960 are abominations

00:31:11.900 to me

00:31:12.320 that split

00:31:14.680 my world

00:31:15.200 in two

00:31:15.640 because before

00:31:16.780 then

00:31:17.120 and a lot

00:31:17.620 of New Agers

00:31:18.180 think the same

00:31:18.960 way

00:31:19.280 this is an

00:31:19.920 important point

00:31:20.560 I thought

00:31:21.100 that I was

00:31:21.520 doing God's

00:31:22.180 work

00:31:22.520 because I

00:31:23.300 thought I

00:31:23.620 was making

00:31:23.980 people happy

00:31:24.780 I would do

00:31:26.160 mediumship

00:31:26.680 sessions

00:31:27.200 where I would

00:31:27.600 help people

00:31:28.040 to get over

00:31:28.820 their grieving

00:31:29.420 with a

00:31:30.000 deceased

00:31:30.820 loved one

00:31:31.500 I would

00:31:32.340 take cards

00:31:33.500 and read

00:31:33.920 their future

00:31:34.880 and people

00:31:36.160 would be happy

00:31:36.940 the thing

00:31:37.640 was they

00:31:37.920 were accurate

00:31:38.500 readings

00:31:39.000 because demons

00:31:39.760 will feed

00:31:40.460 messages

00:31:41.380 to false

00:31:42.180 prophets

00:31:42.560 like I

00:31:42.960 was

00:31:43.280 and to

00:31:43.960 psychics

00:31:44.340 and mediums

00:31:45.460 and so

00:31:46.200 I thought

00:31:46.820 the accuracy

00:31:47.440 was a sign

00:31:48.540 that it was

00:31:48.940 from God

00:31:49.340 and the fact

00:31:49.860 that people

00:31:50.260 were happy

00:31:50.880 was a sign

00:31:51.640 from God

00:31:52.060 I would say

00:31:53.160 a lot

00:31:53.980 when I was

00:31:54.760 on stages

00:31:55.240 I was giving

00:31:55.780 keynote workshops

00:31:56.800 to thousands

00:31:57.660 of people

00:31:58.140 around the world

00:31:58.760 and I would

00:31:59.200 say the

00:32:00.100 following words

00:32:01.020 that now

00:32:01.520 embarrass me

00:32:02.260 to no end

00:32:02.820 I would say

00:32:03.460 I'm God's

00:32:04.020 secretary

00:32:04.520 because I was

00:32:06.840 channeling books

00:32:07.740 you know

00:32:08.060 I'd listen for a

00:32:09.120 voice and I'd

00:32:09.660 write what I'd say

00:32:10.520 out of here

00:32:11.560 and I had

00:32:13.440 written over

00:32:13.960 70 books

00:32:14.800 in 38 languages

00:32:15.880 worldwide

00:32:16.440 I mean this was

00:32:17.140 huge what I was

00:32:18.160 doing

00:32:18.460 huge blasphemy

00:32:19.760 huge heresy

00:32:20.520 but at the time

00:32:22.040 oh go ahead

00:32:22.660 well at the time

00:32:24.140 I really thought

00:32:24.920 I was doing

00:32:25.320 God's work

00:32:25.980 a lot of new

00:32:26.740 agers will tell

00:32:27.420 you that

00:32:27.900 that they're

00:32:28.360 doing God's

00:32:28.960 work

00:32:29.200 and that

00:32:30.000 Christians are

00:32:30.580 not doing

00:32:31.000 God's work

00:32:31.420 because it

00:32:31.780 makes people

00:32:32.220 unhappy

00:32:32.840 their litmus

00:32:34.180 test

00:32:34.520 and so

00:32:35.480 when I saw

00:32:36.400 in Deuteronomy

00:32:37.140 18

00:32:37.460 that what I

00:32:38.380 was doing

00:32:38.780 made me

00:32:39.240 an abomination

00:32:39.800 to God

00:32:40.360 it broke

00:32:40.920 my heart

00:32:41.460 I was on

00:32:42.320 my knees

00:32:42.860 crying and

00:32:44.000 weeping

00:32:44.360 maybe three

00:32:45.860 days of

00:32:46.900 begging God

00:32:47.920 to forgive me

00:32:48.580 and just saying

00:32:49.120 I didn't know

00:32:50.200 God

00:32:50.440 I didn't know

00:32:51.060 I didn't know

00:32:51.780 over and over

00:32:52.760 I'm so sorry

00:32:53.520 I didn't know

00:32:54.180 and then the more

00:32:56.000 I read the Bible

00:32:56.760 I saw that hell

00:32:57.760 is real

00:32:58.480 in the new age

00:32:59.600 it's considered

00:33:00.620 to be a metaphor

00:33:01.280 that you have

00:33:03.040 hell or heaven

00:33:04.140 on earth

00:33:04.800 and in the new age

00:33:05.960 it's universalist

00:33:06.940 that the belief

00:33:07.740 is everyone

00:33:08.320 goes to heaven

00:33:09.280 all paths

00:33:11.120 lead to God

00:33:11.640 so it's

00:33:12.000 pluralistic

00:33:12.860 relativistic

00:33:15.080 and universalistic

00:33:16.720 so you can

00:33:18.340 you can do

00:33:18.900 no wrong

00:33:19.400 in the new age

00:33:19.980 is the bottom line

00:33:20.780 when I read

00:33:21.620 that I had done

00:33:22.240 grievous wrong

00:33:23.340 that's when I was

00:33:24.620 saved

00:33:24.960 you said something

00:33:27.200 very interesting

00:33:27.940 earlier

00:33:28.420 and then just now

00:33:29.660 that I think

00:33:30.440 a lot of us

00:33:31.500 a lot of people

00:33:33.340 tend to do as well

00:33:35.180 they see what they

00:33:36.840 think is fruit

00:33:38.160 of someone's ministry

00:33:39.220 so wow

00:33:40.060 they've got a lot

00:33:40.760 of followers

00:33:41.300 they've you know

00:33:42.220 they're getting a lot

00:33:42.940 of people to church

00:33:43.900 look they're

00:33:45.160 they've got a lot

00:33:46.240 of people praying

00:33:47.120 they've got a lot

00:33:47.860 of people believing

00:33:48.640 they've got a lot

00:33:49.320 of people raising

00:33:50.040 their hands

00:33:50.640 or rejoicing

00:33:51.720 so what they're

00:33:53.140 doing must be fine

00:33:54.740 maybe God

00:33:55.880 is really using

00:33:56.880 that new age

00:33:57.960 pastor

00:33:58.360 or I see

00:34:00.020 there's a lot

00:34:00.620 on the prosperity

00:34:01.580 side

00:34:02.020 so when I said

00:34:02.780 liberal theologically

00:34:03.640 earlier that doesn't

00:34:04.580 necessarily mean

00:34:05.480 liberal politically

00:34:06.940 there are a lot

00:34:07.800 of people on the

00:34:08.500 conservative political

00:34:09.400 side who buy

00:34:10.700 into people like

00:34:11.540 Joel Osteen

00:34:12.380 and other kinds

00:34:13.220 of these prosperity

00:34:14.040 pastors that are

00:34:15.240 very new age

00:34:16.840 in the sense

00:34:17.280 of what you said

00:34:18.280 that you're really

00:34:19.580 a good person

00:34:20.220 God just wants you

00:34:20.940 to know you're

00:34:21.440 a good person

00:34:22.020 you just need

00:34:22.800 to manifest your

00:34:23.640 word for this year

00:34:24.520 manifest your

00:34:25.240 prosperity

00:34:25.860 manifest your

00:34:26.600 health

00:34:26.940 and all of

00:34:28.080 these things

00:34:28.600 and so they look

00:34:29.620 at their churches

00:34:30.740 and they're saying

00:34:31.500 wow they've got

00:34:32.240 tens of thousands

00:34:32.780 of people there

00:34:33.360 they gotta be

00:34:34.200 doing something

00:34:34.840 right or you

00:34:36.080 know people are

00:34:37.220 hearing the name

00:34:38.180 of God that God

00:34:38.840 loves them for the

00:34:39.460 first time so it

00:34:40.560 must be fine who

00:34:41.400 are we who are

00:34:42.560 we to judge

00:34:43.380 so I think that

00:34:44.680 that's a really

00:34:45.300 important point that

00:34:46.240 we can't just look

00:34:47.000 at someone's

00:34:47.460 follower count or

00:34:48.260 the number of

00:34:48.780 people in their

00:34:49.240 congregation and

00:34:50.080 say well you

00:34:51.560 know it must be

00:34:52.480 it must be fine

00:34:53.300 with that kind of

00:34:54.040 logic I mean when

00:34:55.140 Jesus says like the

00:34:56.280 gate is wide that

00:34:57.800 enters into hell and

00:34:58.660 the gate is narrow

00:34:59.260 that that leads

00:35:00.280 to heaven with

00:35:01.540 that logic then

00:35:02.940 the way to hell

00:35:03.560 must be right too

00:35:04.300 because a lot of

00:35:04.900 people are going

00:35:05.920 that way so that

00:35:07.140 doesn't make too

00:35:07.640 much sense

00:35:08.160 yeah absolutely I

00:35:10.240 I did new age

00:35:11.560 expos they were

00:35:13.880 called mind body

00:35:15.020 spirit festivals

00:35:15.980 they were called I

00:35:17.220 can do it they

00:35:17.940 were called you

00:35:20.000 know these these

00:35:20.760 expos where we'd

00:35:22.220 be on stage in

00:35:22.960 front of thousands

00:35:23.640 of people and I

00:35:25.700 was the only one

00:35:26.700 using Christian

00:35:27.300 terminology and so

00:35:28.820 people still today

00:35:29.860 said I thought you

00:35:30.560 were always Christian

00:35:31.400 Doreen because I

00:35:32.660 would start my

00:35:33.300 workshops with the

00:35:34.120 prayer to God and

00:35:35.440 Holy Spirit and

00:35:36.380 Jesus and I would

00:35:37.540 also add Archangel

00:35:38.400 Michael because I

00:35:39.220 thought that he was

00:35:40.140 it's a blasphemy

00:35:41.960 praying to angels

00:35:43.660 but but so I was

00:35:46.020 using Christian

00:35:47.400 terminology as were

00:35:48.400 some of the the

00:35:50.560 other teachers there's

00:35:52.660 a woman who channels

00:35:53.880 this entity group

00:35:55.080 supposedly called

00:35:56.500 Abraham and she's

00:35:58.320 got a book called

00:35:59.000 ask and it shall

00:36:00.060 be given which is

00:36:01.480 you know just

00:36:02.500 twisting Jesus's

00:36:03.760 promise so if people

00:36:06.820 were confused when I

00:36:07.880 would finish my

00:36:08.940 workshops at the end

00:36:10.160 of the night and I

00:36:10.780 would be doing a book

00:36:11.760 signing there'd be

00:36:12.980 this line of people

00:36:14.080 waiting for me to

00:36:15.460 sign their books and

00:36:16.480 say hi and usually

00:36:17.920 tell me their stories

00:36:18.900 so many of them wore

00:36:21.240 crosses around their

00:36:23.280 neck or crucifixes

00:36:24.620 because a lot of

00:36:25.380 them were Catholic

00:36:26.020 I realize now that a

00:36:28.040 lot of them were

00:36:28.880 lukewarm Christians

00:36:31.060 that had not read the

00:36:32.960 Bible a lot of them

00:36:34.420 would brag this term

00:36:36.060 they would say I'm a

00:36:37.480 recovering Catholic

00:36:38.840 and they had left the

00:36:40.340 Catholic Church because

00:36:41.180 they said it made them

00:36:42.380 feel guilty and bad

00:36:43.660 about themselves and

00:36:44.420 they went running into

00:36:45.720 the arms of the New

00:36:46.460 Age which said no no

00:36:47.820 no you're a good

00:36:48.440 person God loves

00:36:49.220 you right can you

00:36:52.040 touch a little bit

00:36:53.200 on yoga crystals

00:36:57.360 these things that are

00:36:59.260 very popular I only

00:37:00.860 I'll just admit I

00:37:01.920 only very recently

00:37:03.260 very recently started

00:37:05.100 thinking about yoga

00:37:06.960 in this way I just

00:37:07.840 never thought about

00:37:08.720 it I just thought you

00:37:09.560 know some people are

00:37:11.000 using it as a

00:37:11.840 spiritual practice I

00:37:12.940 would never use it as

00:37:13.820 a spiritual practice

00:37:14.760 but you know it's

00:37:16.420 it's working for me

00:37:17.280 it relaxes me

00:37:18.300 whatever and then I

00:37:19.820 started getting some

00:37:20.800 messages from followers

00:37:22.520 saying you know you

00:37:23.660 probably should look

00:37:24.360 into yoga because I

00:37:25.200 think I maybe said a

00:37:26.040 couple times on social

00:37:26.980 media oh yeah I just

00:37:28.060 did yoga whatever and I

00:37:30.480 started looking into it

00:37:31.680 and I thought well maybe

00:37:32.760 this is me using part of

00:37:35.220 the New Age and I

00:37:36.020 didn't realize it was

00:37:36.780 harmful so what is your

00:37:37.920 take on that?

00:37:38.520 oh big take on it I did

00:37:41.180 yoga for 20 years it's

00:37:42.960 part of being in the New

00:37:45.000 Age the New Age

00:37:45.680 appropriates multiple

00:37:47.560 cultures so it takes a

00:37:49.500 lot from Hinduism

00:37:50.660 Buddhism Native American

00:37:52.880 spirituality and kind of

00:37:55.200 blends it together without

00:37:56.580 really knowing what it's

00:37:57.800 doing so it's it's

00:37:58.900 spiritually dangerous

00:37:59.660 because people will pray

00:38:01.060 to these Hindu deities

00:38:03.040 that I think the average

00:38:04.280 Hindu would be afraid to

00:38:06.120 deal with there's some

00:38:07.460 scary scary deities in

00:38:09.920 Hinduism so yoga which

00:38:12.040 means yoked and it

00:38:13.400 means yoked to Brahman

00:38:14.700 the idea in Hinduism of

00:38:17.220 the creator so you're

00:38:18.800 yoked to the Hindu

00:38:20.560 creator doing yoga

00:38:22.140 there's a series that's

00:38:24.500 in virtually every yoga

00:38:25.960 class called the sun

00:38:27.040 salutations and it

00:38:28.620 includes these poses

00:38:30.520 chaturanga warrior one

00:38:32.380 and two downward dog

00:38:34.160 upward dog sun

00:38:36.080 salutations and each of

00:38:38.140 those poses is designed

00:38:39.520 to bow down to a

00:38:41.580 different Hindu deity

00:38:42.780 its whole meaning and

00:38:45.540 and this is not coming

00:38:46.580 from Christians

00:38:47.840 criticizing yoga that's

00:38:49.940 part of yoga theology

00:38:51.440 wow and so people will

00:38:53.320 argue with me all the

00:38:54.200 time oh well I would

00:38:55.380 never ever bow down to

00:38:57.080 a Hindu deity I'm saying

00:38:58.280 scripture I'm listening to

00:38:59.520 Christian radio while I'm

00:39:01.160 doing yoga it doesn't work

00:39:02.900 that way if it's if it's

00:39:04.460 rooted in paganism it

00:39:06.920 doesn't matter whether we

00:39:07.820 slap the veneer of

00:39:09.360 Christianity on top of it

00:39:10.720 it's it's gone it's it's

00:39:13.560 yoga has no place in any

00:39:15.880 Christian's life and I'm

00:39:17.020 particularly concerned that

00:39:18.540 it's being offered to

00:39:19.300 children in churches because

00:39:20.800 children this is what

00:39:22.220 happened to me I was so

00:39:23.100 vulnerable I trusted my

00:39:24.240 mom who said oh yeah we're

00:39:25.880 Christians this is a

00:39:26.700 Christian church and hello

00:39:29.480 mom no we weren't yeah

00:39:32.500 and so kids just don't

00:39:35.060 have any kind of

00:39:35.740 discernment to know that

00:39:37.860 yoga is is going to lead

00:39:39.860 them in the wrong

00:39:40.380 direction if you're bowing

00:39:41.840 down to Hindu deities

00:39:44.080 which are demons you're

00:39:45.780 going to be attracting

00:39:48.340 those demons now people

00:39:50.160 will say but isn't it okay

00:39:51.240 to stretch of course it's

00:39:52.300 okay to stretch we're

00:39:53.480 supposed to stretch it's

00:39:54.640 how our bodies are made but

00:39:56.240 that's a big difference from

00:39:57.640 doing a warrior pose or

00:39:59.640 chaturanga or or a

00:40:01.900 downward dog there's ways

00:40:03.560 to stretch you get on

00:40:04.620 your floor with a towel and

00:40:06.660 you just move your body

00:40:08.020 that's stretching do that

00:40:11.280 but don't don't go to any

00:40:13.000 holy yoga classes don't go

00:40:14.700 to anything like that the

00:40:16.200 people in those classes get

00:40:17.400 so mad at me for saying

00:40:18.340 this but I have to speak the

00:40:19.480 truth because no one told

00:40:20.740 me I wish that someone who

00:40:22.480 would have told me what you

00:40:23.500 and I say these days Ali I

00:40:25.960 so let me articulate what

00:40:28.640 my thoughts were when I

00:40:30.660 was in a place of I guess

00:40:32.640 just justifying it now I

00:40:33.900 I've never been big into

00:40:35.460 yoga it's not something

00:40:37.120 that I just really liked but

00:40:38.400 I did used to teach bar

00:40:39.600 classes and yoga was a part

00:40:41.440 of bar and again I just

00:40:42.560 never never thought about

00:40:44.560 it so but when I when

00:40:46.200 people started sending me

00:40:47.020 stuff and saying you know

00:40:48.040 maybe you shouldn't talk

00:40:49.280 about doing yoga when I

00:40:50.740 was when I was pregnant I

00:40:51.980 was like oh yoga is really

00:40:53.200 the only thing I can do it

00:40:54.820 so I talked about it on

00:40:55.560 Instagram and people would

00:40:56.560 start saying things and how

00:40:58.680 I thought about it and I

00:40:59.600 just want to kind of hear

00:41:00.340 what you would say to

00:41:01.240 someone who is thinking

00:41:02.120 this right now listening

00:41:03.040 okay but what's the

00:41:05.300 difference in me doing a

00:41:07.200 lunge with my arms

00:41:08.640 outstretched not calling it

00:41:10.480 a warrior one or warrior

00:41:11.880 two I don't even know what

00:41:13.380 it's called what's the

00:41:15.180 difference in just moving

00:41:16.280 my body not thinking

00:41:18.080 anything spiritually about

00:41:19.100 it all and okay now I'm

00:41:21.640 moving my body in the

00:41:22.520 exact same way pretty

00:41:23.800 much but I'm calling it a

00:41:26.580 yoga term what's really

00:41:28.320 the difference in that

00:41:29.080 aren't we just being

00:41:30.000 legalistic oh I understand

00:41:32.540 that all the time I'm very

00:41:34.540 much accused of being a

00:41:35.840 legalist but the definition

00:41:37.700 of legalism is that you

00:41:39.540 are saved by your work we're

00:41:41.120 saved by grace we're free

00:41:42.900 in grace but the thing is

00:41:44.380 when we're saved we want to

00:41:45.820 obey God and so we want to

00:41:48.500 glorify God in everything we

00:41:50.280 do is a glorifying God to do

00:41:52.120 poses that were designed to

00:41:54.500 bow down to pagan deities

00:41:56.240 going back again to Deuteronomy

00:41:57.920 18 even Acts 19 19 or Acts

00:42:01.240 16 16 for those who say oh

00:42:03.360 the Old Testament we unhitch

00:42:04.940 from we we're not glorifying

00:42:08.180 God when we do yoga poses the

00:42:10.140 warrior one and warrior two

00:42:11.640 poses are not natural they

00:42:13.400 require a lot of static

00:42:15.540 movement to lock your arms in

00:42:18.220 place to make them completely

00:42:19.460 outstretched people would not

00:42:21.240 do that naturally arrive at

00:42:22.720 that on their own doing

00:42:24.160 stretching there's a big

00:42:25.460 difference doing a lunge no

00:42:27.180 problem I mean that's no

00:42:28.680 problem moving your arms

00:42:30.140 around no problem but locking

00:42:31.440 them to either side you are

00:42:33.020 mimicking a Hindu deity and it's

00:42:35.400 dangerous interesting well I'm

00:42:37.340 very thankful for the people

00:42:38.680 who pointed it out to me and I

00:42:41.040 know that there are people

00:42:41.860 listening to this who might be

00:42:44.100 feeling defensive and like I

00:42:45.540 just want to say I totally

00:42:47.540 understand like I just

00:42:49.360 admitted this has been a very

00:42:50.960 recent development in my mind

00:42:52.740 and I probably was a little bit

00:42:54.280 defensive when people pointed

00:42:55.420 it out to me but I'm so

00:42:57.320 thankful for the grace and the

00:42:58.480 patience of God and the Holy

00:43:00.260 Spirit moving in our hearts

00:43:02.240 through other people and even

00:43:03.680 though at first like our

00:43:05.300 idolatry and our sinfulness

00:43:06.820 wants to kind of you know push

00:43:09.620 that kind of rebuke away or push

00:43:11.540 that kind of correction away I'm

00:43:13.580 so thankful I'm so thankful for

00:43:15.340 the Holy Spirit and how he

00:43:17.760 relentlessly pushes us towards

00:43:20.240 holiness even when our first

00:43:21.800 reaction is defensiveness and I'm

00:43:23.740 sure that's the reaction that

00:43:24.960 you get to a lot of the stuff

00:43:26.500 that you say absolutely the

00:43:28.560 first time I put a video warning

00:43:30.940 about yoga up on YouTube it was

00:43:32.880 the first time that I got an equal

00:43:34.440 number of dislikes and likes

00:43:36.980 people either hated it or loved it

00:43:39.520 but I do think you know of course

00:43:41.160 God uses everything for his good for

00:43:43.500 his glory and so the fact that you

00:43:45.960 didn't feel conviction about it at

00:43:48.740 first and you were defensive is a

00:43:50.880 wonderful story to help people who

00:43:53.380 can identify with that so praise God

00:43:56.320 praise God definitely okay we only

00:43:58.800 have a little bit of time but I want

00:44:00.720 you to touch on a couple of things as

00:44:02.980 we wrap up can you talk to me about

00:44:05.960 crystals I've gotten a lot of people

00:44:08.720 saying you know God I one time said

00:44:11.800 something sarcastic about oh the same

00:44:13.880 people who make fun of us for

00:44:15.200 believing in the Bible is the inerrant

00:44:17.260 word of God or the same people that

00:44:18.820 say oh I'm gonna rub a crystal on my

00:44:20.400 forehead and all my problems are gonna

00:44:21.620 go away well I got a backlash from

00:44:23.220 people who identify as Christian

00:44:24.460 saying well God made these crystals to

00:44:27.020 have the power that they do what's

00:44:29.140 what's your opinion or what's your

00:44:31.040 thought well God yeah God definitely

00:44:32.720 made crystals the Bible especially the

00:44:35.380 Old Testament with the the high priest

00:44:38.820 had crystals this crystal references

00:44:40.980 gemstone references from Genesis to

00:44:44.040 Revelation and so that's not the

00:44:46.380 problem it's how we use them people use

00:44:48.400 them in an idolatrous way anytime we

00:44:51.380 elevate something that's having power

00:44:53.300 above God so we say this crystal has

00:44:55.840 the power to heal or to divine my

00:44:58.140 future that's go read Romans 1 that's

00:45:00.900 idolatry putting the creation above the

00:45:03.820 creator so that's where we get into

00:45:05.440 trouble so I always ask people asking

00:45:07.340 about crystals to be very honest with

00:45:09.560 themselves and with the Holy Spirit

00:45:11.220 and say what's the purpose of me

00:45:13.280 having this crystal is it a decoration

00:45:16.080 is it to glorify God like having a

00:45:18.000 bouquet of flowers right beautiful

00:45:20.100 creation from God or is it because I

00:45:22.440 think it will give me magical powers or

00:45:24.520 it will help me in some way and if

00:45:26.580 you're thinking it's that way get rid

00:45:28.020 of it get rid of all the idols that you

00:45:29.760 can that you can find same with

00:45:32.160 essential oils I was gonna bring that

00:45:34.360 up I was like oh this is dangerous

00:45:36.040 territory but I don't want to talk

00:45:38.120 about that okay so essential oils same

00:45:41.560 litmus test is it an idol or not a lot

00:45:43.900 of these essential oil companies have

00:45:45.540 these magical sounding blends that

00:45:47.680 they've made that promise kind of under

00:45:50.420 the radar this this will give you

00:45:51.920 happiness this will give you you know

00:45:54.560 this or that promise and so that's

00:45:56.600 when it becomes idolatrous is thinking

00:45:58.200 that the oils have a magical property

00:46:00.100 granted there's oils all throughout the

00:46:02.460 scripture don't you don't need to send

00:46:04.120 me the scripture I'm very aware of

00:46:05.800 where it says oil in the scripture but

00:46:08.120 again going back to Romans 1 are you

00:46:11.180 worshiping the creation or are you

00:46:13.580 worshiping the creator you glorifying the

00:46:15.640 creation or the creator it's a matter of

00:46:18.060 being super honest with yourself and

00:46:19.900 with the Holy Spirit right and just to

00:46:22.600 let people know they're listening to

00:46:23.900 this I have essential oils I you know

00:46:26.900 use eucalyptus you know in the shower

00:46:29.820 because I like how it smells and I

00:46:31.480 believe that these things have good

00:46:34.000 properties in them that we can use but

00:46:36.400 I think that what you said Doreen is so

00:46:38.420 important that there is a litmus test to

00:46:40.020 these things and that we have to test

00:46:42.260 ourselves that we have to ask God to

00:46:45.000 look into our hearts to see if there be

00:46:46.540 any grievous way in us are we idolizing

00:46:49.680 whether it be crystals or energies or

00:46:53.260 whatever it is that we think is going to

00:46:56.580 heal us or to change our lives or to

00:46:59.780 bring us peace God is the giver of peace

00:47:02.600 not an essential oil that doesn't mean

00:47:04.780 that lavender isn't calming but it does

00:47:07.880 mean that like you said Doreen it doesn't

00:47:10.520 have the power that God does so it's not

00:47:13.180 inherently sinful to have a crystal that's

00:47:15.960 beautiful or something I don't keep

00:47:19.120 crystals because I was an idolater with

00:47:21.940 crystals I can't have them I'm like like

00:47:24.100 an alcoholic who can't have any beer in

00:47:26.180 the house right but but I use essential

00:47:28.580 oils for cleaning I totally agree with

00:47:31.000 you I've got a big thing of eucalyptus in

00:47:33.440 my shower I use lavender because there is

00:47:36.680 scientific proof that it does help to

00:47:39.080 calm you down but I don't give it more

00:47:42.560 power than that I don't say oh please

00:47:44.980 lavender please call me anything like I

00:47:48.000 would at the new age right right okay

00:47:50.400 one more thing something that I see that

00:47:54.320 is that seems to be growing more and more

00:47:59.020 prevalent you mentioned children doing

00:48:01.600 yoga well it's it doesn't seem like it's

00:48:03.720 just yoga like there is a book that a lot

00:48:06.760 of Christians were concerned about that

00:48:08.140 is being sold and I think target teaching

00:48:10.260 kids about demons there seems to be also

00:48:13.800 not just among children but among women

00:48:17.680 especially an affinity for witchcraft just

00:48:21.120 outright and a lot of symbols of a cult some

00:48:24.240 people are saying I haven't looked into it

00:48:26.080 quite enough but some people are saying

00:48:27.600 there were satanic symbols even in the

00:48:29.720 halftime show but there does seem to be

00:48:32.400 playing with fire pun intended when it comes

00:48:36.540 to the occult in those kind of symbols is that

00:48:38.960 something that you've noticed absolutely

00:48:41.280 again this is the progressive nature of

00:48:43.520 deception when I first started with

00:48:45.720 Hay House my new age publisher we were

00:48:48.120 not even allowed as authors to use the word

00:48:50.360 psychic when I left them 25 years later

00:48:53.560 their number one selling books were all

00:48:55.640 about witchcraft so they had gone from

00:48:57.560 zero to 60 and I see that with a lot of

00:48:59.860 people as they they want more they want

00:49:01.740 more they want a sense of power and

00:49:03.460 control in their world and witchcraft seems

00:49:06.420 to offer that that you can cast spells and

00:49:09.240 you can get your soulmate you can get your

00:49:10.960 job promotion you can get health wealth and

00:49:14.300 and so the danger is that witchcraft will

00:49:18.300 also say oh well this is nature this is

00:49:21.240 this is an alternative to big bad

00:49:23.380 Christianity is the way it's marketed and

00:49:26.600 and it's women empowerment when I first

00:49:29.780 was saved the number one complaint I got

00:49:32.640 from the New Agers who used to follow me is

00:49:35.220 that Christianity is so patriarchal because

00:49:38.160 New Age is mostly women followers and so

00:49:42.100 witchcraft seems to be something like a

00:49:45.620 women's spirituality that that Christianity

00:49:49.380 that the men of Christianity have pushed

00:49:52.540 away because they don't want the secret to

00:49:54.240 be revealed so realize that underpinning if

00:49:57.020 you have a loved one is in witchcraft is

00:49:58.780 that there's that sense of a jealous rivalry

00:50:03.220 between Christianity and witchcraft and there's

00:50:05.580 not it's Christianity being concerned about

00:50:08.400 people going to hell is the bottom line and

00:50:11.600 witchcraft if you go into a bookstore these

00:50:13.860 days you'll see witchcraft books everywhere

00:50:15.900 including for children Disney's new show is all

00:50:19.540 about glorifying witches when I was a kid

00:50:22.280 Disney's shows made witches the demons the the

00:50:26.300 villains right the Snow White Cinderella the

00:50:29.440 witches were all the demons and the villain

00:50:31.580 nowadays the witches are the heroes in a lot

00:50:34.340 of Disney shows and we can't know that as

00:50:36.900 parents unless we're monitoring what our kids

00:50:39.660 are doing and comparing it to scripture it all

00:50:42.080 comes back to biblical literacy doesn't it

00:50:44.300 knowing the Bible so that you can compare

00:50:46.780 everything to what God's word says yes and I

00:50:49.560 have so many thoughts with what you just said

00:50:51.360 one that women have an affinity towards the new

00:50:54.660 age more than men do which goes to show that

00:50:57.280 Satan is giving the same lie to women that he gave

00:51:01.040 Eve in the Garden of Eden trying to convince women

00:51:05.460 that you really have the power of God in you and if

00:51:08.460 you just do this thing if you just follow me you will

00:51:12.060 be like God you will have all the power that God has and

00:51:15.420 that's what is being sold to them not just in overtly in the

00:51:20.600 overtly witchcraft realm but in all of this new age and

00:51:24.580 something that I want people to realize and people will

00:51:28.000 say oh you're just exaggerating you're taking it way

00:51:29.920 too far you're being judgmental is that even if someone

00:51:35.320 is preaching to you about self-empowerment and self-healing

00:51:39.180 and self-love and self-care no they're not overtly saying

00:51:42.780 that they're a witch or that they might not engage in what

00:51:45.660 they believe is witchcraft but it is all intertwined because

00:51:49.060 the underpinning in all of this is that the God is self and

00:51:52.740 that you have the power over yourself you have the power to

00:51:56.000 manifest all of these things in your life there is not that

00:51:59.020 much of a difference between some of these motivational

00:52:02.000 speakers and outright witchcraft again it's different labels

00:52:06.000 but it is the same kind of deception wouldn't you say or do

00:52:09.140 you think I'm taking it too far no no no actually it's so

00:52:12.320 clear if we go if someone would just read Deuteronomy 18 10

00:52:15.800 through 12 they can see how God puts it all on the same

00:52:19.740 level playing field of sacrificing your children and doing fortune telling

00:52:23.800 which can include horoscopes and astrology

00:52:26.500 and and I I'm going to just to offend everyone even more

00:52:31.360 Enneagram is one of the things that people should take a look at

00:52:34.440 it it's popularized by Richard Rohr who's got pantheistic

00:52:38.700 and universalistic belief and it's it's not it's not from a Christian monk

00:52:44.580 this has been completely exposed that that was a marketing scheme that they

00:52:50.080 came up with make it seem palatable to Christians it's a

00:52:53.420 new age personality test I have a BA and MA in psychology from Chapman

00:52:58.700 University one of the leading universities and I studied personality

00:53:02.140 tests a lot in in college I can tell you the Enneagram is not in the same

00:53:07.480 category as like an MMPI or the Stanford Binet which are scientifically created

00:53:13.600 personality tests and besides that Christians shouldn't be all obsessed with

00:53:19.080 who am I by going to a personality test am I an eight am I a one that's that's

00:53:25.040 self-idolatry that's self-glory who we are is in the Bible that's where we find

00:53:29.700 those answers right and it all goes back to as you have said multiple times it

00:53:35.520 all goes back to Romans 1 or that's one of the places that it goes back to in

00:53:40.620 scripture you've cited quite a few places where we can see the reflection of

00:53:44.060 today's deception in the Bible which shows that you know Satan might be

00:53:49.140 crafty but he's not original he's not creative he's not really coming up with

00:53:52.460 new temptations it's the same temptation all manifesting itself in in a different

00:53:57.700 way but it does reflect so much of what we read in Romans 1 that not only are we

00:54:04.160 engaging in these new age practices and these occultist practices that really make

00:54:08.140 ourselves God but we see what happens when we make ourselves God and there are

00:54:12.140 two things that we've talked about on this podcast that I see a lot is the

00:54:15.680 elevation of animals to the same place or above humans and the degradation of

00:54:21.600 babies and so you have child sacrifice and you have this animal worship and

00:54:29.280 wherever there is animal worship in the Bible there is also child sacrifice so

00:54:33.580 again all of these things just go hand in hand absolutely it comes down to

00:54:39.840 knowing your Bible and praying for God to reveal what's in your heart to you it's

00:54:46.100 it's really praying repentance daily and praying Psalm 139 you know show me God

00:54:52.040 what's offending you and having the courage to do that it's scary when you feel bad

00:54:56.860 about yourself when you've gone through a lot in your life and you don't feel

00:55:00.240 lovable it's really scary to ask God what am I doing that's offending you God but

00:55:05.020 it's necessary yes and it's so much it's so much better because like you said the

00:55:11.320 self-love self-empowerment self-worship stuff it feels good for a little bit and

00:55:15.280 it might make your life better in the short term because maybe you do have some

00:55:19.200 confidence and you're able to achieve a goal maybe you're able to lose weight

00:55:22.520 maybe you got that promotion maybe you ended up taking job opportunities that

00:55:27.180 made you more money and you're fulfilling your dreams and so you look at your

00:55:30.520 life and you say well God must be blessing what I'm doing that book must have

00:55:34.120 been right but in the long term not only does it eternally lead somewhere that none

00:55:38.520 of us want to go but also it doesn't truly satisfy because you're always looking

00:55:43.860 for the next thing that you're supposed to do okay so I lost the weight well now

00:55:47.820 maybe I you know whatever it is that you need to do to manifest the next goal in

00:55:53.440 your life and so you're constantly craving like you said people saying more

00:55:57.140 more more more but Jesus calls himself the bread of life he is the well that

00:56:01.760 never runs dry because in him we find rest for our souls we find satisfaction our

00:56:06.940 hunger is finally satiated our thirst is finally satiated and his yoke is easy and

00:56:13.260 his burden is light whereas in yoga like you said we're yoked to a false god whose uh

00:56:18.900 whose yoke is difficult and his burden is heavy Jesus the one true God offers us

00:56:24.780 something uh much much better amen yeah so well said and and I hope that everyone

00:56:32.500 has ears to hear what you just said because that's the bottom line well there's so

00:56:36.660 much more that I want to talk to you about man I will just have to have you back I

00:56:40.540 would love to have you back when you're around the time that your book is coming

00:56:44.380 out because I know it's going to be so important for people to read I just

00:56:47.740 finish writing a book myself that comes out in May and I know the process is

00:56:52.560 grueling so congratulations to you for getting this done um if you could tell

00:56:57.080 everyone some information about where they can find you if you want more

00:57:01.260 information about your book just feel free to tell everyone anything you'd like

00:57:05.160 absolutely well I'm pretty easy to get a hold of you can write me on instagram

00:57:10.120 direct message my instagram name is and yes that's my real name um I have a

00:57:16.340 youtube channel doring virtue for jesus with a lot of discernment videos and

00:57:20.400 ali I would love to interview you when your book comes out for my youtube channel

00:57:25.140 and also um facebook page doring virtue for jesus awesome well thank you so much

00:57:32.800 for taking the time this was a fascinating conversation probably the most one of the

00:57:38.120 most if not the most important interviews that I've done and I'm so excited uh for

00:57:43.380 people to listen to this we're probably going to get a lot of pushback which you

00:57:47.000 and I are both used to um and that's okay uh thank you thank you so much and

00:57:52.440 we'll be in touch soon okay god bless you thank you too

00:57:56.000 you

Relatable with Allie Beth Stuckey - February 10, 2020

Ep 211 ｜ The Dangers of the New Age ｜ Guest： Doreen Virtue

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