Ep 263 ｜ Why Social Justice Can't Solve Racism ｜ Guests： Virgil Walker & Darrell B. Harrison
Episode Stats
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Summary
Daryl and Virgil Walker bring us back to what the Word of God says about race and racism, and how we should view it through the lens of the Bible. They discuss the George Floyd incident, racial reconciliation, and the role of the government in race relations.
Transcript
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I typically give you, you know, a straight theology episode, but today we are going to
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talk to two of my good friends, the hosts of the Just Thinking podcast, Daryl Harrison
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And they have just been such wonderful biblical voices, really in so many topics and relating
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to the Christian life, but particularly on the things that are going on right now with
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And so today they are going to bring us back to what the Word of God says and how the gospel
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informs how we should view everything that's going on.
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Okay, without further ado, here are my friends, Daryl Harrison and Virgil Walker.
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Daryl, Virgil, thank you so much for joining me.
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One of you, I'll just pick so that we're not confused about who's talking.
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Virgil, can you tell me who you guys are, the podcast you host, and what you do?
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I get the privilege of hanging out side by side with the lead host, Daryl Harrison.
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We've been doing it now for coming up on two years, having just an incredible reach and
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And doing no small part, Allie, to you're encouraging your listeners to check us out
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and to listen to us on a number of different subjects that we cover.
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And Daryl, can you tell everyone who you are and what you do as well?
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And as Virgil alluded to, I'm lead host of the Just Thinking podcast.
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And yeah, my day job, when I'm not hanging out with this guy getting in trouble, I serve
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as dean of social media here at Grace To You, which is the Bible teaching ministry of Dr.
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John MacArthur out here in Valencia, California.
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And thank you for your ministry, the Just Thinking podcast.
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I want everyone to go subscribe to that and download, especially the latest episodes.
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But you guys really, we talk a lot about, or you guys talk a lot about race, racial reconciliation
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But that's really just a fragment of what you guys discuss.
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You guys talk about socialism, the role of the government, the assurance of salvation, all
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kinds of things that Christians are concerned with.
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But this last podcast episode that you did, Daryl, on George Floyd and the gospel has been
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The episode that we did, George Floyd and the gospel, which we released about a week and
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a half ago, is approaching 90,000 downloads, which would make it by far the most downloaded
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And as Virtual mentioned, we've been doing the podcast for close to two years.
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There's a couple of reasons, though, for the George Floyd episode that's just different.
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Number one, that was not an episode that we planned to do.
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That episode is what we call a freestyle episode, whereby Virgil and I just got behind the microphone
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It was no scheduling, no choreographing anything.
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It was just me and him, two Christian brothers, getting behind the microphone, talking about
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what happened with regard to the George Floyd incident in Minnesota, and looking at that
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Because if anyone who's listened to the episode can say, I did a lot of venting in that episode,
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primarily out of the fact that here we are covering ground that we've covered so many
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times on, as you alluded to, Allie, on the Just Thinking podcast.
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We've covered so much of that ground already, but by God's grace and his providence and his
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sovereignty, that episode continues to make an impact in the lives of believers and unbelievers
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alike, because he gave us an opportunity to capture that incident within the objective
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truth of Scripture and talk about it within that lens so as to eliminate any nuances, any
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feelings, any subjective perspectives, and basically couch that incident in what the Word of God
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says, which applies to every one of us equally.
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If you can, either one of you, Virgil, I'll go to you.
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You don't have to rehash everything y'all talked about in the podcast, but from your perspective,
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can you summarize what is the objectively biblical view of what's going on right now?
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Yeah, we began the conversation by discussing the horrible tragedy that took place for George
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One of the things that I appreciate about what we try to do on Just Thinking is we don't
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We don't run from issues, even when we deal with issues around slavery or Jim Crow.
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We don't cast a blind eye to what took place in those instances, and we didn't in this case
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So we began the conversation by talking about what took place and how horrified we both were
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about it, how our hearts were wrenched out of our chest as we watched this police officer
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Then before, what the culture does from that standpoint is they begin to ascribe motivation.
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They begin to describe things attitudinally with regard to what was the motivation behind
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what took place, rather than focusing on the reality of what was most tragic about it was
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not what motivated it, but the act in and of itself.
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The act in and of itself was horrific, and we need to stop, pause there, and think about
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that particular issue and be mournful about that.
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We talked about the next step of what people do, which is they begin to attribute motivation.
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They begin to attribute things like racism into the conversation, which don't need to be
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As Daryl and I discussed, regardless of what the motivation was, it doesn't make George
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He is still dead as a result, and that should be the tragedy.
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We talked about him being an image bearer of God, and that we should be mournful that any
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image bearer of God, regardless of level of melanin in the skin, would be impacted in that
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We talked about our feelings about that, but mainly we anchored the truths in Scripture
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with regard to a biblical anthropology regarding race, a biblical thought process about sin
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and the role of sin in the life of believers and unbelievers alike, where it applies equally,
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and how we as believers should view the entirety of the situation.
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And Daryl, why do you think it is that people are so quick to immediately judge?
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The heart-level motivations of something that is already tragic in itself.
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Why are we so quick to do that and then to extrapolate that into a larger cultural moment
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Yeah, I think bottom line, fundamentally, it's because of the sin that's in our own hearts.
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I mean, we are, as congenital sinners, quick to react to things that we think we can relate
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So, for instance, with respect to what happened with Mr. George Floyd, a lot of our reaction
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was tied to the connection that we have with the color of his skin matching ours, perhaps
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maybe a socioeconomic connection that we may have had with the experience in how Mr. George
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Floyd grew up, the experience that maybe some individuals have had with police officers themselves.
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So, there are any number of reasons why we're so quick to react to situations like that.
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But I think, as Virgil alluded to earlier, you know, when you talk about trying to attribute
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motive to something like this, in this case, right, the clarion call was that it was racism,
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So, when you attach a suffix like ism to a root word race, to a noun, when you attach
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But in the case of racism, when you're talking about an ism like this, you're talking about
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And that takes you automatically from a sociological sphere to a theological sphere.
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Because when you go from a noun to a verb, and you're trying to impart a motive, in this
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case, on behalf of the police officer, that makes it a theological question, which automatically
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Because all of our motives, for better or worse, for good or ill, originate in the heart.
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And I think that is what a lot of folks are missing.
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And perhaps is why the episode that we did on George Floyd, the gospel, is being so impactful
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because we've tried to take people back, not just to the act, but to the attitude that
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And that's why we have to start to remedy situations like this.
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What do you think, Daryl, about the reaction that ensued?
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Obviously, not the genuine reaction of sadness over an image bearer's life being taken, but
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the rioting and the looting and the now calls to abolish the police system, the justice system,
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What do you think, I guess, just in general about that reaction?
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Yeah, that reaction is just part and partial of our just missing what is the fundamental
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I sent a tweet out just earlier this morning where I made the case that injustice is an
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And what folks are missing here is that they're concentrating on what happened and missing
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Listen, each of us carries within us the same seed of sin that led to the perceived injustice
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And I say perceived because that situation is still being adjudicated.
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The perceived injustice, we each carry the seed within us that gives rise to situations
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We're quick to extrapolate ourselves from the situation in so much that we don't connect
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We're quick to connect ourselves with the victim.
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When you look at this situation theologically, we have to go back to Genesis 3, the sin of our
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first parents in the garden and the fact that that sin nature now resides within each one
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And when we understand what happened with Mr. George Floyd in the context of Genesis
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3, we would connect ourselves more, we're actually more relatable to the police officer
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And see, what people are missing here is that the solutions that they're driving at in trying
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to deconstruct certain institutions and structures and rebuild them into new institutions and structures
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is that they don't realize that the same sinful attitudes that created those structures that
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they want to deconstruct are going to be reconstructed simply by new sinners.
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So we have to take the George Floyd incident in Minnesota all the way back to Genesis 3 if
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we truly want to understand the big picture of what went on there.
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Virgil, a lot of pastors are using this moment to not talk about sin and to not talk about
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the fall and the only thing that can soften a sinner's hard heart being the gospel, but
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to instead talk about exclusively racial reconciliation and even white privilege and white fragility.
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What do you think about evangelical pastors using this to bring up those kinds of conversations
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And because of the fact that the reality is the Bible already explains this.
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Daryl and I were talking the other day and really identified the fact that when you begin
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to walk away from biblical terminology, you walk onto the social turf of the culture.
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And when you do that, that is an absolutely losing battle, that you've lost the battle.
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And what we're watching evangelical pastors and preachers do is leave the pages of Scripture
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for what they're seeing in the culture that's not at all helpful.
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Scripture is clear about this, whether it's issues of systemic racism, issues of privilege,
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all of these things can be identified through the pages of Scripture for what they are.
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And the beauty of holding on to Scripture is that you anchor them back into the root cause
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When I think about issues around systemic racism, I automatically go to Romans 5, verse 12.
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What is that if that is not systemic in nature?
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And as a result, we see the horrible kinds of tragedies that we do in the culture.
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But in an effort to be relevant, people have forgotten what it means to be righteous and
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stay into pages of Scripture and seek the cure that can only be found through the gospel
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It seems that a lot of pastors, Christian influencers are allowing the world and secular activist groups
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So, justice, repentance, penance, holiness, righteousness, all of these things that God
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But instead of pastors saying, hey, world, you're looking for justice, you're looking for
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righteousness, you're looking for peace, I've got that right here in the Word of God.
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They're saying, oh, actually, I feel that the Bible and the gospel are not only insufficient,
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And so, you see a lot of pastors being a little bit embarrassed about bringing the Word of God
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into these conversations, but instead are just listening to people with an atheistic worldview,
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which means if you have an atheistic worldview, you don't believe people are made in the image
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You don't even care about George Floyd's murder as much as you and I do, because they don't
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And so, we have, as Christians, we have a whole other level of care and of gravity about this
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But unfortunately, I'm seeing so many Christians being willing to be informed and influenced
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by the world because they have been convinced that the gospel is an insufficient and inappropriate
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Yeah, let me just say this, and I really don't mean this to be condescending in any way whatsoever,
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but we should never assume that because someone wears the title of pastor that they know what
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What we're finding out is that many pastors and many professing Christians in general have
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You see, the gospel works from the inside out, and this is what differentiates biblical
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The biblical gospel works by the monergistic power of God in the heart from the inside out,
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and as we obey God, then society benefits from that, okay?
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However, the social justice tries to realize biblical fruit by working from the outside in.
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You see, and when we have pastors and church leaders partnering with the culture and emphasizing
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works for the sake of works, right, scripture says that we are to do works in keeping with
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So the gospel inverts the approach of the world and says, no, heart change results in the fruits
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Laws fundamentally exist to protect us from one another.
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So when you look at injustice, you understand that the struggle for injustice is really a
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We're trying to find unbiblical ways, worldly, cultural, social ways to remedy an innate spiritual
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And these ridiculous, absurd partnerships that many churches are making with the world and
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organizations like Black Lives Matter, which have no concept of the Imago Dei, as you said,
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As Virgil alluded to, we should care with the George Floyd situation or any other perceived
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situation of injustice that an image bearer of God was treated unjustly.
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Not that a Black image bearer of God was treated unjustly.
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So again, the gospel has the answer, but many believers are ignorant.
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They truly have no solid concept, orthodox concept of what the gospel is and how God works his gospel
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Virgil, what do you think about using this moment or any moment to talk about what has
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Daryl and I have talked about this often on our show, and I got a chance to share this idea
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with someone and basically said this, races don't reconcile, hearts do, right?
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If Ali, if you were going to send someone of, and again, the idea of races is not biblical,
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Acts 17, 26, we know from one man comes every ethnos, every nation of mankind.
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So first of all, the idea of races is a misnomer.
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The other piece of the thought process when you're thinking about races reconciling, who
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is the white race representative and what black race representative are they going to
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And what are going to be the terms of this reconciliation that's taking place?
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It's a misnomer to confuse people and really establish a permanent victim class and a permanent
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oppressor class by which we guilt people into doing things that they wouldn't otherwise
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do apart from what Daryl was talking about, which is true heart change.
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And as a result of that reconciliation with God in repentance and faith in Christ, we are
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then therefore reconciled with our neighbor, with our brother.
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And then the sin that takes place between one another is that which gets reconciled based
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I'm going to my brother who's done me wrong or who's sinned against me, and we're addressing
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And Allie, if I could just add something to what Virgil just said.
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You know, listen, what we're talking about here in terms of reconciliation is no different
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than what would have to take place if you and your husband, for example, had a disagreement.
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If someone would say, well, you know, you guys are husband and wife, you should get along
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As if to say being husband and wife should just sort of intrinsically take care of any
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issues that you guys might experience within your marriage.
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But no, those disagreements and issues have to be resolved one heart toward another.
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You see, and I think about John Owen in his book, Indwelling Sin and Believers, he said
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enmity against God is diffused through the whole soul.
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You see, this is, so again, this is why I say injustice is an attitude before it is an
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You know, scripture teaches, right, that if we hate, if we have hate toward someone, that
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And so only the gospel deals with the attitudes and the motive and the impetus that results
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in the acts of injustice that we're seeing in the world.
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What do you say, Daryl, to those who say, okay, I hear you that the gospel is the ultimate
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answer, but look, we've got systemic racism and we've got to, it's not enough to just,
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you know, love your neighbor as yourself, as God tells us to do.
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We've got to dismantle systemic racism, and that is what they would say is, you know,
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the manifestation of seeking justice and loving mercy, as Micah 6, 8 says.
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And a lot of pastors are encouraging people to think that way, talk that way, and act
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What would be your response to the Christian who says that?
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Well, listen, the Christian who says that respectfully, anyone who wants to add to what scripture already
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says doesn't understand what scripture says to begin with.
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You see, I think there's a misnomer out here, especially within evangelicalism, that the
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gospel means that the ultimate objective of the gospel is equity, is societal equity, okay?
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Virgil and I did an episode on our Just Thinking podcast on a biblical theology of the role of
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And in that episode, we had an opportunity to exposit the distinction between equal and equity.
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You see, and the world wants equity, but you can't have equity without partiality.
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So someone says, well, it's not enough to love your neighbor as yourself, but you're essentially
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telling that Jesus got his own gospel wrong, okay?
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So, but for folks who would say that, they still—I hate to be redundant here, but I just
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So we're seeing a wave of statues coming down again.
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You can fix—you can—what you call fixing all the structures and institutions within a
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But at the end of the day, you're still dependent on the person obeying the law.
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You're still dependent on the person obeying that precept.
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You're still dependent on the person treating you justly, and those are instances that happen
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Nothing outside of the individual can influence that person to treat you in a manner that you're
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supposed to be treated as an image bearer of God.
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So again, all of these are secondary and tertiary issues that take attention off what is the real
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issue, which is why Christ came in the beginning, in the first place.
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This is why Christ came, to regenerate our hearts, make us right with God.
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And as that heart change takes place, then you see the fruit of that change in society.
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But it's got to happen at the individual level first.
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It's the equivalent of the Tower of Babel, right?
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Man believing that they can create their own edifice to build utopia in an effort to get
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to God, when the message of the gospel is that God comes to us, right, in the form of Christ
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and redeems mankind and saves us from ourselves.
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We still believe, for some odd reason, that God's methods, God's plan, God's prescription
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And that we're required by the hand of man to do something different than what he's prescribed.
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I mean, we're doing this in every area and every facet.
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And what's sad to me, Allie, is to see believers who should be laying hold to the truth operate
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Virgil, you fight very hard for the abolition of abortion.
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You've come on my show and we've talked about that.
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People love just the practical advice and the gospel advice that you gave people.
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I've heard pastors, a particular pastor, say, okay, why are Christians, I guess probably
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you guys and me, saying, you know, just preach the gospel.
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And I heard this pastor say, but you don't say that about abortion.
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You dismantle the systems and you try to end those things.
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So do you think that there is a hypocrisy for people like you and me to say, we want
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to dismantle it and stop abortion from happening.
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But when it comes to something like systemic racism, the gospel is the answer.
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The category error to the point that Daryl was making, racism is an attitude.
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You can't stop what's in the heart of an individual.
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Now, I would also argue in a separate way this.
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And it is that we're not leaving the gospel back at the door as we go to the abortion clinic.
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I'm bringing the gospel into conflict into that situation by being there, proclaiming the truth
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of its message, letting the woman know that she does not have to sacrifice her child for
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the purpose of the sin of sexuality outside the confines of what God stated.
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And that the same God who produced life is able to take care of that life, given she'll walk
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in the right pattern of righteousness that God's designed for her.
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And we provide all kinds of resources for that.
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I'm not going to tear down some abortion clinic building or lay it to fire or any of those
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I'm operating under the guise of what the law provides, but I'm bringing the gospel into
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But again, that's a category error with regard to an attitude and a motivation and the person
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Daryl, I'm going to ask you what you might not see.
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You don't want you might not see it as a controversial question, but some people might think it is.
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Do you believe or in your experience or study, do you believe that systemic racism is something
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Let's take, for example, if you've been diagnosed with a disease that's metastasized throughout
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your body, that disease is now systemic throughout your body.
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So anything that's systemic, we have to go back to the root origin.
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And I don't see enough objective empirical evidence.
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I emphasize objective, objective empirical evidence that there is systemic racism in
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America, because if there were, then Virgil and I would be victims of that because nothing
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that listen, nothing can be systemic rather and have anyone exempt from it.
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If it's systemic, that means everybody experiences it.
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If no one, if there's even one person that doesn't experience it, then it's not systemic.
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How can be, how can something be systemic and not be all inclusive of everybody?
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How can something be systemic, Ali, inherently systemic, yet eliminate you, yet you're being blamed for it being systemic?
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I'm not seeing enough empirical, objective evidence that there is systemic racism or what scripture calls hate, systemic hatred of a certain populace who happens to have a certain shade of melanin, be of a certain ethnicity.
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I don't see that, because by definition, it would include people like me and Virgil.
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And when I came to work today, the doors weren't locked for me.
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So I've been seeing and thinking about is you guys have heard the phrase, you know, the soft bigotry of low expectations.
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This is something that, for example, economist Thomas Sowell talks about that you lower the expectations for a certain group of people or a certain kind of people because it's typically white elite liberals who say, you know, this group has been historically oppressed, so they cannot reach this standard.
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And even if some do, they're the exception and not the rule.
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And we still have to change the standards for this group of people.
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We see that in things like affirmative action and different things like that.
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But I think that we're also seeing it in the evangelical world where I've seen white pastors, they're willing to talk about the gospel or preach the gospel to their mostly white congregants.
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And then when they turn around or have an interview or a conversation with a black Christian or a black non-Christian, they don't talk about the gospel.
00:30:03.320
And it's almost like these white pastors aren't willing to hold black Christians to the same standards of holiness, forgiveness, tenderheartedness, righteousness as they are white Christians.
00:30:15.280
And I'm just not sure that's going to fly with God.
00:30:21.480
I think you're going to get in trouble for saying that, Allie, but you're used to that.
00:30:28.800
You see it in the media with regard to what's happening and the rioting that's taken place.
00:30:34.280
And that's just an expression of anger or rage.
00:30:39.760
Or if it's mentioned at all, it's mentioned very lightly where the emphasis is placed on an expression of what they're wanting to say.
00:30:48.880
You're seeing that to the point you just made inside of churches.
00:30:52.780
I listened to a dear pastor friend of mine this week, and I thought he gave a great sermon for his white congregants.
00:31:02.240
If I'm a black guy in his audience, I had nothing to repent of.
00:31:10.660
I was actually the victim for which every white congregant should at some point come and do something by way of penance on their behalf.
00:31:28.220
I mean, I'm walking a group of folks through the book of Romans.
00:31:33.600
In Romans chapter 1, verse 18, he says, the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men.
00:31:40.720
And then, Ali, he spends the next three chapters taking apart every single group that can be known.
00:31:47.100
In chapter 2, he begins to talk about the Pharisees.
00:31:50.020
And if they were applauding him saying something to one group, give him just a minute because he's going to come and grab the next group and the next group.
00:31:56.980
And again, Daryl made this point earlier, which is the gospel is all about equal, right?
00:32:05.580
It's about an equal response to everyone with regard to their sin against the holy God.
00:32:11.320
And whenever that's parsed out in some way, shape, or form to not include a group or to overlook sin in a group or to not acknowledge sin in that group, whatever gospel that's being preached is not the biblical gospel.
00:32:24.440
Yeah, Ali, we did an episode on the Just Thinking podcast.
00:32:27.620
It's called, we titled it One Church, One Body.
00:32:33.840
Where we took Mr. J.D. Greer to task because J.D. Greer was speaking before a predominantly black audience at some event in North Carolina.
00:32:47.500
He lowered his message to that audience because they were black.
00:32:52.660
And we specifically took him to task in that episode.
00:32:56.120
But, you know, when you go back historically and you read people like Frederick Douglass, Booker T. Washington, both of whom were former slaves, both of whom were abolitionists.
00:33:06.000
Matter of fact, you can read many slave narratives.
00:33:09.040
And fundamentally, the one thing that all slaves wanted was freedom.
00:33:13.840
Now, they wanted their freedom so that they could make their own way.
00:33:18.040
None of them ever asked for their standards to be lowered.
00:33:26.100
They never asked to be treated differently, even because of their oppression.
00:33:30.760
They wanted to be freed from their oppression under the Imago Dei, under that innate awareness.
00:33:37.040
Romans 1, right, that we know that there is a God.
00:33:40.040
And we know the difference between right and wrong inherently.
00:33:44.960
They wanted their freedom so that they could make their own way.
00:33:49.180
It is absolutely—I don't even know the adjective for it.
00:33:52.700
But when I see people reduce black people to what Virgil said, a permanent class of victims, it's absolutely—I'm outraged.
00:34:07.400
And as much as Virgil and I try not to name names in that episode, though, we had no choice but to name names.
00:34:20.340
That's condescending that it is not worth the legacy of thousands, if not millions, of black people who gave their lives so that Virgil and I could talk objectively about such issues.
00:34:41.000
You're embarrassing yourself, leaders, when you do that.
00:34:44.680
It reminds me of another pastor that you guys have talked about who said that he would hire the black seven over the white eight, but not the black six over the white eight because that would be tokenism.
00:34:59.800
But again, that's like the soft bigotry of low expectations, Christian style, that apparently you have in your head that a group of people is almost inherently incapable of reaching the same standards as another group of people, while you're simultaneously turning around to your white congregation and calling them the bigots and the racists, when maybe they're not the ones who think that way.
00:35:21.920
But I do think this kind of cultural, secular conversation or the rhetoric that we're having about white privilege and things like that, it blinds some of these pastors to their own inherent bigotry and sin because they're checking the boxes of worldly righteousness while they checked their privilege.
00:35:44.460
They made a video about privilege for their congregants.
00:35:47.940
And so they believe that they are insulated from any kind of woke criticism, not realizing that they are actually the ones in a lot of cases perpetuating the condescension that they are accusing other people of perpetuating.
00:36:02.960
And how embarrassing for the black member or the person who worked for that congregation, right?
00:36:11.800
If I'm the black guy to whom he had said to this public setting, I'll hire the black seven, not the black six, when I thought I was the black 10 walking in.
00:36:20.920
How embarrassing for him to show up to work the next day and to be looked at by his peers as the only reason he's here is out of the benevolent heart of someone white who checked their privilege, who was willing to hire the black seven, all the while him believing himself to be equal to or if not better than anyone else who was hired for the position.
00:36:43.980
Yeah, Ali, let me say, listen, I'm not, I'm not saying every pastor is in this category, but a lot of people, a lot of them, a lot of them are cowards.
00:36:55.680
A lot of them just flat out cowards, because when you, when you, when you, when you think that you have to adjust your message from one ethnic group to another ethnic group, that tells me that you care more about your own personal reputation than you do the gospels.
00:37:17.860
Number one, scripture, if it's not clear on anything else, it's clear on this, that when you preach the gospel, you're going to be hated.
00:37:27.800
Matter of fact, if you're not making enemies, then you're probably not preaching the biblical gospel.
00:37:32.940
Okay, so I would challenge those pastors and they know who they are.
00:37:38.040
They know who they are because the Holy Spirit is going to convict them in their own heart.
00:37:43.260
Stop being cowards and stop playing to the world as if you have to appease them.
00:37:53.140
Or is it the gospel with Jesus Christ's name on it?
00:37:56.440
There would be no gospel if it were not for Christ.
00:37:59.520
Okay, so stop being cowards and preach courageously the biblical gospel that Jesus Christ preached.
00:38:08.140
Yes, and something I try to remind Christians is that you're never going to be woke enough anyway to appease the activist groups.
00:38:19.640
So you can get on board with their calls for justice, which, of course, are not actually justice because they're not rooted in God's definition of justice.
00:38:34.120
They're still coming for your views on marriage and sexuality.
00:38:38.700
So until you completely capitulate and in so doing renounce your faith, you're never going to appease them.
00:38:50.500
You know, I've said from day one, you know, there is no satiating the woke.
00:38:55.100
You just think of woke with an ellipsis after it.
00:38:59.460
Okay, because I say that because the definition is never fixed.
00:39:08.780
You think you're drawing a line of cement, but that line is really in the sand.
00:39:13.980
It's every day, sometimes multiple times a day.
00:39:16.880
You know, so again, it's like Paul says, you know, who am I trying to please here?
00:39:23.540
Well, if I'm trying to please man, then I don't please God.
00:39:26.380
So you have to pick whose side are you on here?
00:39:29.100
You have to, you know, you can't have one foot in woke theology and then have the other
00:39:48.020
And so I have just gotten so much biblical insight from you, not on just this topic, which really
00:39:53.080
is just a fragment of what you guys talk about, but just godly living and biblical
00:39:57.160
living and biblical perspectives on the chaos and the craziness.
00:40:00.600
I think that you, through the power of the Holy Spirit, you guys are keeping a lot of
00:40:05.500
A lot of Christians who say, okay, you know, I thought the gospel was enough.
00:40:10.320
I thought I was just supposed to love the Lord, my God, with all my heart, mind, soul,
00:40:16.360
I thought Jesus's burden was light and his yoke was easy.
00:40:19.200
But now I'm turning to pastors who are saying just the opposite.
00:40:22.260
You guys, through the power of the Holy Spirit and God's word, is helping keep people grounded.
00:40:28.220
So just thank you so much for what you guys do.