Relatable with Allie Beth Stuckey - Ep 286 ｜ How the Church Should Respond to Black Lives Matter ｜ Guest： Samuel Sey

00:00:00.000 Hey guys, welcome to Relatable. Happy Monday. I am so excited for you to listen to this

00:00:15.440 conversation today between me and my friend, writer Samuel Say. We are going to talk about

00:00:22.880 his career, his testimony, what he writes about, which is specifically how we are supposed to

00:00:29.300 respond from a biblical perspective to real instances of injustice. He will talk about his

00:00:34.920 criticism of Black Lives Matter and the movement that it represents, and again, how we as Christians

00:00:42.300 should be responding to all of the turbulence that's happening in our world right now.

00:00:47.960 Before we get into that conversation, you guys, tomorrow my book is coming out. This has been such

00:00:54.020 a long time coming. It's been almost two years since I originally talked to the people who published my

00:00:59.220 book, so this has been a long process. It's been a labor of love. It has been a group project with

00:01:05.260 you guys, everyone who has ever messaged me, emailed me, asked me a question, given me feedback,

00:01:10.920 provided me with wisdom and insight into this culture of self-love and how we as Christians

00:01:16.500 should be able to analyze it, break it down, and replace it with the truth of God's Word.

00:01:20.960 You guys have contributed to this book, You're Not Enough, and That's Okay, Escaping the Toxic

00:01:25.800 Culture of Self-Love. I am so excited for you guys to finally have this in your hands. If you go to

00:01:32.500 alibethstucky.com book, you can click on buy the book or pre-order the book, and it will take you to

00:01:41.560 a page that will show you all the places that you can buy it online. So you can purchase it

00:01:45.200 on Amazon. You can purchase it at Books A Million. You can purchase it at barnesandnoble.com.

00:01:50.780 Also, it may be available at your local bookstore. It's probably available at your local library. If

00:01:56.180 not, you can ask these places to carry it. And so go to alibethstucky.com book. You can find more

00:02:03.620 information about it. A lot of people ask me, is this just for women? As you can see, if you're

00:02:09.420 watching on YouTube, it is a pink book. It is from a female perspective. All the other perspectives that 0.99

00:02:14.800 I have in the book, I've got some stories from some listeners that they sent me in their experiences

00:02:19.640 with the culture of self-love. That's from a female perspective. So yes, it is primarily targeted 1.00

00:02:25.260 towards women because the culture of self-love primarily targets women. But can a man get

00:02:30.660 something out of it? Sure. And if you are a man who happens to listen to the podcast, if you've got a

00:02:34.660 daughter, if you've got a girlfriend, if you've got a wife, if you've got a mother who you think would

00:02:39.700 like this book, it's really encouraging for all ages of women, then I encourage you to get it too.

00:02:44.880 Now, another question I have received is, is this okay for young teenagers? What is the age? So we

00:02:52.720 do talk about some, I would say, mature subjects. I talk about some of my own regrets, my own mistakes

00:03:01.540 that also led me to learn the lessons that I articulated in this book. And I talk some about

00:03:08.360 college experiences and my own testimony that I would say deal with more mature subjects. So it just

00:03:15.860 depends on the maturity level of your daughter, if that's who you're buying the book for, if you are

00:03:20.780 willing to read the book with them. If you've got young girls, like say ages 13 to 15, that you are

00:03:28.540 looking to buy this book for, I would encourage you, you do what you think is best as their parent. But I

00:03:35.000 would encourage you to read this along with them and to talk through these things with them. I would

00:03:40.360 say it's a good book in general for ages 16 plus, since it does kind of deal with things that maybe

00:03:47.120 you as a parent would want to be the one to talk to them about. So I just want to give you that heads

00:03:52.860 up. Another question that I get is, what if I'm in Australia? Or what if I'm in Canada? When I try to

00:03:57.900 buy it on Amazon, I can't, it won't let me purchase the book. You have to go to the domain that is in

00:04:04.760 your area. So you can't go to the American Amazon.com. You have to go to the domain that corresponds with

00:04:10.400 where you live and you will be able to purchase it. Yes, it's on Audible, it will be read by yours

00:04:15.340 truly. And yes, it is also on Kindle. A lot of people have asked me for a paperback version. And I

00:04:21.340 don't really know the answer to that. I think that will be available. But those are all the places that

00:04:25.500 you can get it. As I have said many times, if you are a woman, join Women's Book Club with Allie 0.95

00:04:31.720 Stuckey. We'll be going through this book together. We'll be starting in a couple weeks. So I can give

00:04:36.200 people some time to actually purchase the book and I can have time to approve the many, many requests

00:04:42.340 that I have to enter the group. It is a private group and it is just for women. So join that book 1.00

00:04:48.580 club. We will be going through this book and then later we'll be going through lots of other books as

00:04:52.580 Well, if you have requested to join and I haven't approved you, it's not personal. I've got like

00:04:57.200 probably as we're speaking 350 requests that I'm trying to go through and I don't just willy-nilly

00:05:02.140 go through them. I actually look to see who is requesting and then I accept people. So make sure

00:05:07.140 that you answer all the questions, that you look at the rules, then you request to join and I promise

00:05:11.520 that I will get to you. So you're not enough and that's okay. Escaping the toxic culture of self-love

00:05:16.740 it's out tomorrow. I will be on Fox News on Wednesday night, Shannon Bream's show talking

00:05:21.220 about this. I am on radio shows talking about it. I might even be on some of your favorite podcasts.

00:05:28.020 I'll be on Ben Shapiro's show. I'll be on Candace Owens' show. I'll be on Dan Crenshaw's show. I'll be

00:05:33.360 on Graham Allen's show. So all the fun conservative commentators and a lot of Christian influencers also

00:05:39.180 that you know have graciously allowed me to be on to talk about this book. So I'm just so excited.

00:05:45.060 Thank you guys so much for your support. And please, if you will, go out and purchase You're

00:05:50.700 Not Enough and That's Okay, Escaping the Toxic Culture of Self-Love. And when you have read the

00:05:55.340 book, I would love for you to give me a positive five-star review on Amazon if you do love the book

00:06:01.800 and those are your honest feelings about it. If you've got questions, always feel free to reach

00:06:05.940 out to me. I would love to engage with you about the book. And of course, we will be doing that

00:06:09.800 on Ali's book club, Ali Stuckey's book club on Facebook. Okay. Now that I've gotten that out of

00:06:18.000 the way, without further ado, here is my friend, pro-life activist and writer, Samuel Say. Samuel,

00:06:25.940 thank you so much for joining me. Thank you for having me. A lot of people who listen to my podcast

00:06:31.180 have heard of you and heard of your blog before because I've referenced it. You've got a lot of

00:06:35.580 great and helpful content over there. But for those who maybe haven't heard of you,

00:06:40.400 can you tell everyone who you are and what you do? Thank you. Yeah, I'm a Ghanaian-Canadian.

00:06:48.160 I live right next to Toronto. And yeah, I immigrated from Ghana when I was 10 years old.

00:06:56.280 And I was originally living in Montreal, Canada. And, you know, we immigrated, you know, I came with my,

00:07:03.420 I immigrated with my single mom. She came here three years before I did. Right now, it's very

00:07:10.580 difficult for these days when a family or a member of family is immigrating to the West,

00:07:20.800 particularly America or Canada, they usually come with their children. But when I was, this is back in 1.00

00:07:27.560 the 90s, late 90s at the time, it was very common for parents to move to the States or Canada on their

00:07:36.140 own and then bring their children after that. And that's what happened with me and my mom. But yeah,

00:07:41.140 as I said, I grew up in a single parent household with my mom. And, you know, my dad left my family

00:07:48.220 right before I was born. And this is back during the 80s. And in the 80s, Ghana had implemented 0.97

00:07:52.760 a communist, you know, regime. There's a dictator there and the poverty destroyed a lot of Ghanaians.

00:08:01.220 And that actually is one of the reasons why my dad left our family, because, which is, you know,

00:08:05.920 that's his sin, his failure, but bad policies can create bad parents. And, you know, that's what,

00:08:13.280 so anyway, then through that, my mom, we immigrated to Canada. And by the grace of God, when I was 19,

00:08:18.200 I was at a church and I heard the gospel, which I heard many times before, but I heard the gospel and

00:08:23.600 God just made, you know, opened himself. God opened my eyes and I saw him clearly, as in I, you know,

00:08:34.080 by through faith, I loved him. And that was 19. And since then, I've been developing a passion for

00:08:42.080 theology and wanting to write to help people understand some of the things happening around

00:08:49.180 us. And in 2015, in light of the Ferguson riots, I decided to start a blog to help my friends

00:08:58.160 understand why I did not support Black Lives Matter. And over the last five years since then,

00:09:04.880 the blog has, you know, has reached other people outside of my friends and I'm very grateful.

00:09:12.360 And on top of that, two years ago, I also just started joining the pro-life movement and working

00:09:19.160 for a organization here in Canada named CCBR, which is short for the Canadian Centre for Bioethical

00:09:26.560 Reform. And yeah, so I'm, you know, kind of living the dream and doing two things that I'm very

00:09:32.800 passionate about blogging and saving pre-born babies.

00:09:36.700 Yeah. So since you've been talking about this very contentious subject of, as a Christian,

00:09:42.020 not standing with Black Lives Matter, has there been a lot of pushback, not just from your friends,

00:09:49.480 but as your blog has grown from the greater public in general?

00:09:54.720 Yeah, yeah. When I started blogging, I didn't, I knew what I would be saying was,

00:10:02.620 unpopular, but I was not at the time prepared for how unpopular it would be. I've lost some very dear

00:10:11.120 friends over this stuff. And outside of that too, yes, I received a lot of hate mail from a lot of

00:10:19.840 white people telling me how much, how much more they love Black people than I do, which is always 1.00

00:10:26.260 fascinating. But yeah, you know, there's been a, you know, I have a white girlfriend and she's been 0.52

00:10:32.880 attacked as well too. So it's, there's almost daily I'm receiving, you know, people calling me

00:10:39.680 a coon or Uncle Tom and a lot of that kind of racial slurs against me.

00:10:44.860 Right. Can you explain, at least summarize as, you know, concisely or as thoroughly as you want to,

00:10:54.040 your stance on Black Lives Matter and why you don't agree with them?

00:10:59.000 Mm-hmm. So people oftentimes try to separate Black Lives Matter, the slogan,

00:11:06.900 and Black Lives Matter, the organization or the movement.

00:11:09.860 Right.

00:11:11.200 I think that's almost impossible in the sense that the, the slogan, just the words Black Lives

00:11:19.660 Matter, of course it's true, but I oftentimes liken it to, especially being a pro, pro-life advocate

00:11:26.040 to the, the word pro-choice. The word pro-choice by itself means one thing, but we know culturally

00:11:34.160 it means entirely something else. So Black Lives Matter, the slogan and the movement are very much

00:11:41.280 linked and they don't mean what people think it means. So Black Lives Matter, I don't agree with 0.57

00:11:46.300 them because they, they're, um, what they say, they, they claim it's genocide against Black people in

00:11:53.120 America and here in Canada. We have our, our own chapter here, a Black Lives Matter chapter in Canada.

00:11:58.100 And, um, you may have probably heard of, um, they are the ones that, uh, mentioned, um, um, that, 0.87

00:12:03.780 uh, what you said, white people are subhuman, uh, because they don't have melanin. Yeah. 0.71

00:12:08.660 I think that was the co-founder of BLM in Toronto. She had this long, just for the people who don't

00:12:13.600 know, she had this long Facebook post from a while ago that explained why white people are actually

00:12:19.740 kind of almost deformed humans or subhumans because we don't have the right amount of melanin.

00:12:25.920 And honestly, it's kind of similar to the argument that Nick Cannon made not that long ago,

00:12:29.880 that white people are closer to savages and we lack compassion because we don't have as high of 0.96

00:12:36.480 melanin counts, but the co-founder of BLM in Toronto, I mean, she really believed this and pushed this 0.90

00:12:42.360 kind of stuff. So anyway, you can continue. I just wanted to make sure that people knew exactly what

00:12:47.060 we were talking about. And just even then she was pressed, not too hard, even toughly, but too tough,

00:12:54.760 by the, uh, by the, uh, the press here in Toronto. But when she was asked to clarify and to apologize,

00:13:01.360 she refused to do so. So you're right that she really does affirm it. And, um, anyway, so we have

00:13:08.780 our own chapter here and, um, you know, I don't agree with their ideology. They've, you know, on their

00:13:13.420 website, they're very clear about, um, how they want to destroy the nuclear family, which is a major

00:13:18.940 problem because that's actually, um, what's hurting black families, that the breakdown of the nuclear

00:13:24.580 family is what's leading to high abortion rates, high criminal rates, um, high poverty rates. And 0.97

00:13:30.900 we know the numbers on that. So they are actually, if Black Lives Matter really mattered to them,

00:13:34.960 they would not want to destroy the very foundation of, um, you know, of a good family. And, um,

00:13:41.420 and then also, um, they're very pro LGBTQ and as a Christian, I cannot affirm that. And, um, as I 1.00

00:13:50.060 mentioned before, they are extremely pro abortion. You know, you're pro abortion when Planned Parenthood

00:13:55.400 is almost obsessed with, uh, you know, with supporting you. Um, they just can't get enough

00:14:01.280 of Black Lives Matter. And, um, you know, so I just, you know, ideologically, facts wise,

00:14:07.380 in every facet, um, they're very much anti-Christian and really anti-logic and anti-facts. And I can't

00:14:14.220 support an organization like that. So for the people who say, okay, I'm with you,

00:14:18.860 can't support the organization. Can you explain a little bit more why you would encourage a Christian 0.99

00:14:24.500 in particular not to say, okay, not the organization, but Black Lives Do Matter. And they're using the

00:14:30.500 hashtag, they're using the phrase, they're posting about it on social media. Why would you say

00:14:35.380 or caution them against doing that? And this is for Christians, you said Christians?

00:14:42.480 Yeah. Specifically for Christians. Yeah. The Bible has better words for affirming life than

00:14:48.700 a group that hates the Bible. Right. As Christians, we want to be affirming what the Bible says.

00:14:55.280 And as I said before, you know, we, you, you, we don't live in a bubble. You live in a culture where

00:15:01.860 words and rhetoric matter. And every hashtag is a promotion for Black Lives Matter. You know, so,

00:15:09.580 you know, there are many people who would say, who'd be comfortable saying that they believe in,

00:15:12.780 you know, planning, you know, being a parent and everything else. Well, yes, but you can't say

00:15:16.840 you believe in Planned Parenthood because, well, Planned Parenthood means, you know, killing babies. 0.96

00:15:22.460 Right. Right. That's an organization. As I said before, you can say you're pro-choice, 0.99

00:15:25.920 sure. But at least without some strong, you know, explanation or context, you then would be saying

00:15:32.460 that you are really pro-abortion. Right. So Black Lives Matter, when you say Black Lives Matter, 0.76

00:15:37.380 that wasn't a term that was used anywhere near as often as it is being used now until the organization

00:15:44.240 propped up. And it is really their rhetoric and it is part of their movement. So anytime you affirm

00:15:49.620 that, it is whether a person may not intend on doing so, it is a promotion of that movement.

00:15:56.060 You know, and there are many people too who are not very aware of the differences, well,

00:16:01.200 who are not aware of the major problems within Black Lives Matter. So if you are aware of who they are

00:16:09.980 and you are affirming and supporting the slogan, you are then going to be leading many vulnerable

00:16:16.320 people, many naive people into thinking that you are affirming the organization themselves. And that

00:16:22.220 is not a wise thing to be doing. Right. What about the Christian teachers that I've heard say,

00:16:29.660 okay, yeah, we know that the organization and maybe even the phrase stands for things that we don't agree

00:16:35.680 with. All the things that you just mentioned, plus things like defunding the police, other kind of

00:16:40.360 policy prescriptions that we are just not in line with, but at least they're stepping up. But

00:16:46.180 at least they are showing us the issues that we need to be talking about. I've heard some Christian 0.98

00:16:50.800 teachers say, oh, this, the existence of this self-proclaimed Marxist organization proves that

00:16:58.760 the church has failed in talking about systemic injustices and systemic racism. So instead of

00:17:04.620 criticizing them, we just need to step up to the plate and we need to kind of link arms with them

00:17:10.060 and to go forward in the same direction that they are, even, even if it's with different tactics.

00:17:16.820 What do you say to the Christian who gives that kind of critique to what you just said?

00:17:25.320 That assumes that they have the right premise, but the wrong solution. But no, they have the wrong

00:17:34.040 solutions because they have the wrong premise. That is very important. The civil rights movement,

00:17:41.880 for example, they had the right solution because they had the right premise that there was injustice.

00:17:47.000 They have evidence of injustice obviously happening. It was tangible, true systemic racism,

00:17:51.980 and they offer the right solution.

00:17:54.160 Right.

00:17:54.260 And then you also have, of course, the abolitionist who obviously also had the right premise and the

00:18:01.460 right solution. Black Lives Matter. So for example, as it pertains to George Floyd, when they see a cop

00:18:10.200 killing a black man, context doesn't matter. Motivation doesn't matter. With their ideas, since they really 1.00

00:18:18.600 believe that the American government or in my case, the Canadian government is committing genocide against

00:18:25.480 black people, as soon as they see that in there, they immediately believe that is a racist incident.

00:18:33.320 And that is what fuels their entire organization. So because they believe that in their mind, 0.90

00:18:40.200 it doesn't matter what George Floyd's, what Derek Chauvin's intentions were in terms of his,

00:18:46.120 is, you know, in, I mean, what, you know, he was a, that was bad policing at the very basic level,

00:18:51.560 very bad policing. I saw the full video recently where it has more context to it all, but still,

00:18:56.840 yeah, at the very end, it was bad policing. Right.

00:19:00.840 But with that said, because in their mind, they believe that the entire American government 0.87

00:19:04.760 or Canadian government is committing genocide against black people through the police. That's why they 1.00

00:19:10.360 believe you need to defund the police. Their ideas, their bad ideas is,

00:19:14.680 is pushing their bad policies. So the idea that they are right, you know, they're right to be

00:19:25.960 thinking that there's an injustice against black people in the world. There are no facts that prove

00:19:31.480 that as a Christian, if I believe that the American government is committing genocide against people

00:19:37.400 like me, we can't forget that I'm a black man. And if I really believe this, I would not, of course,

00:19:42.120 be trying to defend the police or the government in this case here. But as a Christian, if I believe

00:19:51.640 that God calls me to honor my government, if I am saying the government is trying to kill people like

00:19:58.440 me, and I don't have the facts to prove that, that I'm bearing false witness and I'm slandering my government,

00:20:03.560 we all forget this, right? With this pandemic, a lot of Christians are saying we need to honor and

00:20:08.600 obey our government. And that's true in many, unless, of course, they're, you know, telling us to sin.

00:20:15.320 But that also includes honoring your government. If you don't have the facts to prove that the

00:20:19.160 American government or the Canadian government is trying to kill black people, but you're saying it

00:20:23.960 is so, well, you don't have the evidence to prove it, because there's no evidence, right? So then it becomes 0.95

00:20:28.920 a major problem. And then the solution in terms with the church, in times past, the church,

00:20:35.880 unfortunately, many people within the church joined the world in sin, in racism. And yet,

00:20:44.440 of course, if it wasn't for the church, through the abolitionist movement, and through, in some cases,

00:20:50.120 them supporting the civil rights movement, you wouldn't have had justice and liberty for black 0.99

00:20:56.280 Americans. But the problem is that right now, a lot of churches are joining the world in how to

00:21:02.840 respond to this, which is not dissimilar to what happened with a lot of people in the church,

00:21:11.000 in the civil rights movement, and then through the abolitionist movement, where they refused to stand

00:21:16.120 on biblical theology. And instead, they joined in, at the time, worldly philosophies through white

00:21:21.560 supremacy. But now it's worldly philosophy through social justice. And, you know, that is not at all

00:21:27.160 helpful to to the church, and it's not at all honoring Christ.

00:21:41.800 I think a lot of churches have been convinced that the movement that's happening right now,

00:21:47.080 and the talk of systemic injustices and systemic racism is a direct parallel to the civil rights

00:21:55.080 movement, which is then a direct parallel to the abolition. And so maybe a lot of church leaders

00:22:01.080 are thinking, well, the church kind of failed, dropped the ball in some ways, at least in the 20th

00:22:07.080 century, and fighting for liberty and justice for all here in the states. And so now we are going to

00:22:13.160 make sure that we're on the right side of history. The problem is, as you explained really well,

00:22:18.120 is that it's not the same premise as during the abolition. It's not the same premise as during the

00:22:24.040 civil rights. Those were correct premises that, okay, our ideals in America, that we are all created

00:22:30.600 with certain unalienable rights, among them being life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness, that we are

00:22:34.760 equal in value and should be equal under the eyes of the law. Slavery was obviously,

00:22:39.960 it stood opposed to those principles. Jim Crow and the systemic discrimination that black people

00:22:47.320 dealt with in America in the 20th century stood against those ideals. But what is happening right

00:22:52.680 now, just based on the data that we have, it's not a parallel, this idea that white people or white

00:23:01.080 police officers are hunting black people in the streets at disproportionate rates compared to white

00:23:09.140 people. It's just not factual. So it starts with a false premise, and then it leads to, like you said, 0.97

00:23:15.060 false solutions, which are these kind of social justice, very intangible, the work of anti-racism,

00:23:23.060 deconstructing whiteness and white supremacy, all of these things that don't really mean anything and

00:23:27.380 are just covers for kind of critical theory. And unfortunately, I think the church has bought into the idea

00:23:33.860 that what's happening right now is exactly the same as what happened in the 1960s, and it's just not.

00:23:41.780 Why do you think, you recently wrote on this, why do you think churches, and particularly young people

00:23:48.820 in the church, are so susceptible to this narrative, to this rhetoric, and social justice theology in general?

00:23:56.020 Mm-hmm. There are many reasons why, and the immediate answer to that, I think, is an overcorrection,

00:24:06.900 an overreaction to the moral majority and the fundamentalists in the 80s and 90s, where those

00:24:14.020 guys would sometimes just, they oftentimes would stray from, I think, biblical wisdom, and were too focused

00:24:21.940 on politics at times. Now, of course, you and I, we very much care about politics, as we should,

00:24:28.100 but it's very easy to make that an idol and to forget the gospel in doing so. And I think a lot

00:24:33.940 of churches in reaction to that thought that that was, rightly so, a somewhat unhelpful means at times.

00:24:43.780 And then they said, we're not going to teach politics at all. We're not going to talk about

00:24:47.780 justice at all. So then you had pastors, parents, not teaching their young children justice.

00:24:53.540 So then they end up going to high school, and especially college, and then they're learning

00:24:57.380 from, they are learning what they think is justice in colleges, where it's really an injustice.

00:25:04.340 And then they return home, or they return to their churches, and their pastors and parents are like,

00:25:08.500 wait a minute, how are you now supporting Antifa and Black Lives Matter? What happened?

00:25:12.820 Well, what happened is that you didn't teach them. So they didn't have any concept of that.

00:25:17.700 You know, I had to learn by the grace of God through the scriptures, and then just studying

00:25:21.780 and figuring out for myself what was true, because what was out, sorry, what I was taught in school

00:25:27.780 is exactly, if I had continued believing in what I was taught in school, I'd be at the very forefront

00:25:36.820 of joining the Black Lives Matter movement, or even Antifa. We're forgetting that this stuff is

00:25:42.260 becoming very much mainstream, because it has become very much mainstream in the schools already,

00:25:47.940 and is just now coming to the very forefront of our culture and our streets. So you have that already.

00:25:54.420 And unfortunately, one of, so I'm, you know, I'm reformed, and I know you are as well, too. And I think

00:26:02.580 there was 10, 12 years ago, you had so many Black people in Britain, Canada, and America becoming

00:26:09.860 reformed. And a lot of Black people were raised as liberals. And when we joined the reformed church,

00:26:19.540 as in we Black people, we joined reformed churches, mostly white reformed churches. We were united over

00:26:25.460 the gospel, rightly so. But since we were never addressing these justice issues, these political

00:26:34.100 issues, a lot of us were still voting or still thinking like leftists and liberals. But a lot of

00:26:40.820 our white members in the church were voting conservative. And we weren't talking about these issues.

00:26:45.620 So then when Black Lives Matter emerges on the scene, and especially with, you know, 0.82

00:26:52.500 Trayvon Martin's killing, and Michael Brown's especially, all of a sudden, we then, as Vadi

00:26:59.060 Bokum has said before, I know he was on your show last week, and all of a sudden, the false unity is

00:27:06.740 really that much more clear. And you see that, wait a minute, we had different views on justice that was

00:27:13.860 never taught. And I had some of my Black friends from across the world saying,

00:27:18.100 my pastor's a racist. I had no idea he was a racist. I had some of them saying,

00:27:22.660 all this time, I didn't know that he would want to make me a slave.

00:27:26.740 So just because now it's, you know, our different views on justice is exposed, they now think that

00:27:34.820 pastors and the members that they had loved for so long, they now believe they're racist because

00:27:39.380 they have different views on justice. So since so many reformed people, so many Black people became

00:27:46.340 reformed, and that tension and disunity really became a major issue, you had so many white pastors

00:27:55.540 then who had started to embrace this multi-ethnic churches and everything else, all of a sudden

00:28:00.580 being afraid that if they reject Black Lives Matter, then, because I've had many emails of pastors

00:28:05.940 telling me they're struggling with this, or that they're being pressured by other pastors into

00:28:09.780 accepting Black Lives Matter and critical theory and all that. And many of them are afraid that if

00:28:15.860 they denounce Black Lives Matter, they will lose their Black members, or then they will no longer be

00:28:21.380 able to receive a lot of Black visitors to their church, which has then led to a very seeker-sensitive

00:28:27.060 type of thinking, where if we embrace the culture, then we'll be able to attract people that we think

00:28:32.740 are very coveted in our culture. But we have to just preach the gospel, preach the gospel to all

00:28:37.540 groups, preach the gospel to white people, brown people, Black people, anybody. The irony is a lot

00:28:45.540 of Black people became reformed because of the gospel. It wasn't because of anything else, it was

00:28:49.060 the gospel. So if you want Black people in your church, preach the gospel, because it is God who

00:28:54.180 saves sinners, all kinds of sinners, not you, it's God. And you would think we should know this because

00:28:58.580 we're reformed people that we know it is not our words that changes souls or that saves souls. It

00:29:05.300 is God. It's God's mercy. So just preach the gospel and be faithful to biblical theology.

00:29:11.220 You know, that is one of the frustrations that I've had in seeing this is that a lot of pastors assume

00:29:17.220 that for whatever reason, for Black people, the gospel isn't enough. You might be able to preach

00:29:23.140 the gospel to your mostly white congregants because you know that's what they need and that's 0.97

00:29:27.380 sufficient for them, but they have it in their heads that Black people need something else

00:29:31.220 besides the gospel, that something else will save them, something else will comfort them.

00:29:35.700 They have to preach social justice and critical theory and worldly views and perspectives and

00:29:42.340 solutions on race in order to feel accepted. And that shows not really as much what they think

00:29:49.300 about Black people as it is what they think about the gospel. That the same gospel that Jesus saw fit 0.52

00:29:55.860 to preach that Jesus saw as sufficient to preach and to have preached to both the Jews and the

00:30:01.860 Gentiles, two groups that were very far apart at the time. And Ephesians tells us that he broke down

00:30:07.540 that wall of hostility between the Jews and the Gentiles. If the gospel was powerful enough to reconcile, 0.56

00:30:13.780 first of all, all of us sinners to a holy God by grace through faith, and then it was powerful enough to

00:30:20.580 reconcile two very disparate groups, the Jews and the Gentiles. I wonder why it is that some pastors

00:30:27.300 today don't believe that the gospel is sufficient from the pulpit to achieve the same reconciliation

00:30:35.460 that Jesus and the apostles saw that it could.

00:30:40.180 You know, in Romans 1, Paul mentions that he is not ashamed of the gospel because it is the power

00:30:49.460 of God for salvation for both the Jews and the Gentiles. Now, at the time, as you said, there was a lot of

00:30:58.980 tension between groups. And he's saying, I am not ashamed of the gospel because it's what will save

00:31:05.700 them. It's what they need. And it's sad because I struggle with this. I know that as a black man,

00:31:16.900 I can get away with so much sin in terms of how I'm thinking about this stuff. I can say some horrible 0.88

00:31:25.940 things to some white friends. And people will not pursue me as they're saying, hey, brother, 0.85

00:31:33.700 you're sinning against this person. You got to repent and reconcile. Unfortunately, I'm seeing

00:31:39.620 so many people on social media now who would think that it's wrong to correct a black person when

00:31:45.380 they're in sin over these issues. But if you're not correcting me because I'm black, that's actually 0.70

00:31:51.860 racist. Right. Right. And what I need most is for me to grow more in love with God and more in love

00:31:59.700 with my members. Right. So through all of this, we are failing to love God faithfully and we're failing

00:32:09.940 to love black people faithfully. Because if the gospel and holiness is what's important, which,

00:32:18.500 of course, of course, is what is important. And we're failing to say what many black people need

00:32:23.700 to hear, not just many black people, but also many white people need to hear. If we're not saying

00:32:27.540 these things, it's not love. It's actually hate. Right. It's hate because God is love. And what affirms who

00:32:35.620 God is, biblical theology, is the most loving thing you can affirm. Right. But if you betray that and you

00:32:42.740 embrace worldly philosophies, that's a form of hate, and you're actually then hurting people's

00:32:48.020 souls. Right. And unfortunately, a lot of groups that they posture themselves as Christian groups,

00:32:55.160 and unfortunately, they do exactly what you just said, that, you know, Ephesians, again,

00:33:01.820 talks about letting go of all bitterness and wrath and resentment and malice and anger, obviously,

00:33:07.840 because that's what we're just called to do as Christians, to glorify God, and those things are

00:33:12.120 sin. But also, graciously, those things, letting go of those things relieves us of a burden that

00:33:19.060 crushes us, that makes us unable to love other people and to live a life of freedom and joy.

00:33:24.960 And so when you tell people of any skin color that, hey, hold on to that wrath and that anger and that 0.97

00:33:31.360 malice that is actually justified in your case, like you said, that's not loving at all. Not only is that

00:33:37.700 not pointing them to the liberation that Christ offers sinners, but it is also allowing them to

00:33:44.240 be trapped and burdened and to hold on to a weight that they shouldn't be responsible or obligated

00:33:51.940 to carry. And so I just see a lot of unintentional, probably, lack of love from Christians, particularly

00:33:59.360 white Christians, to fellow black Christians, because they've been told that any correction or

00:34:03.780 admonition or encouragement in the Lord is a form of white supremacy. And that's the worst thing that 0.78

00:34:08.920 you can, that's the worst thing that you can do, you know?

00:34:12.740 I, one of the most controversial, and it's always surprising to people, one of the most controversial

00:34:18.460 things or articles I ever wrote was I shared a story about how I was walking in a tunnel.

00:34:24.660 As I'm walking in a tunnel, this is a dark tunnel. It's a pretty intimidating tunnel. As I'm walking

00:34:33.720 in that tunnel, there's a young white lady who is walking towards me. And as soon as she sees me,

00:34:41.440 she clutches her purse and she essentially attaches herself. She glues herself to the wall.

00:34:46.800 It's a pretty dirty wall. So you must really want to like avoid me if you're going to be doing this.

00:34:50.420 And she, she does that. And she's just, then she just speeds up way past me. And I, in the beginning,

00:34:58.160 I'm like, oh, this is, you know, here it is again, a white woman being afraid of a black person and all

00:35:03.200 that. And, but then as I keep walking, I'm like, wait a minute, why am I assuming she did this? Because

00:35:10.440 I'm black. If she was a black woman, I wouldn't have thought it was racism. But because she's white, 1.00

00:35:19.220 I'm assuming the worst of her. And I'm thinking she's assuming the worst of me because I'm black. 0.77

00:35:24.380 I'm, I said, look, she may have been racist, maybe, but all I know for sure is that I'm the

00:35:31.960 one being racist. Because if she wasn't white, I wouldn't think she was racist. Many Christians 0.79

00:35:39.700 said, Sam, that's wrong. She is a racist. And I'm like, wait a minute, I'm applying biblical theology 0.99

00:35:44.040 here. The Bible says that I have to assume the best of people. I have to consider others

00:35:50.600 as less, as more significant than myself. And when we, when you try to apply this today

00:35:58.680 concerning the racial issues, all of a sudden, when you're again, applying biblical theology,

00:36:05.760 people, many Christians now think you're in sin and that you're in the wrong for doing so.

00:36:10.820 And that says a lot about where we are trending towards right now as a society and as a church.

00:36:16.500 You know, women get the same message pretty often, maybe not as much from reformed circles. 0.99

00:36:23.620 But just in general, we get the message that any anger or resentment towards men as a collective

00:36:32.280 or the patriarchy as a collective, whether or not you personally have been mistreated,

00:36:37.760 we're not talking about individual relationships, but just in general and intangibly, any anger that

00:36:43.220 you have towards that is totally justified. Any slander, any kind of unfounded criticism that you 0.91

00:36:49.980 have towards this nebulous patriarchy, that is justified. And if a man calls you out in sin,

00:36:55.640 a brother in Christ, well, that is just the patriarchy at work. That is just mansplaining and

00:36:59.920 toxic masculinity. And really, I mean, this just kind of goes to show,

00:37:04.040 this is another example of kind of the effect of critical theory of the oppressed versus the

00:37:10.100 oppressor. If you are told that you belong to a group that has been historically oppressed,

00:37:15.240 you are justified in whatever behavior that you use to push back against your so-called oppressor,

00:37:21.760 whether or not you have actually been oppressed. It's a gospel of grievance that is being preached

00:37:28.140 to so many of these groups. And the gospel of grievance doesn't do anything to actually

00:37:32.660 liberate you. That's the problem. And that's really what, I don't know, it makes me sad. Do you agree

00:37:37.960 with that? Absolutely. It essentially says that you should repay evil for evil. That is what it's

00:37:47.020 saying. Or evil for perceived evil. Exactly. Yes, that's a very well, yeah, I'm glad you mentioned

00:37:56.000 that. Because it's really concerning because, you know, the Bible is very clear on this issue. So

00:38:06.040 no matter what people have done to me or what I think they've done to me, God still calls me to

00:38:12.720 think clearly, to think lovingly towards them. I mentioned to some people that, look, I know that

00:38:20.520 Derek Chauvin, he, you know, he killed, he killed George Floyd in a very, in an unjust manner.

00:38:31.320 Even though I know, again, the videotape shows that, unfortunately, George Floyd was

00:38:36.740 resisting arrest and everything else. But the last, you know, the latter part of the entire

00:38:42.080 altercation or the incidents, you know, he did not react in a very wise manner that ended up leading to

00:38:49.820 George Floyd's death. But I mentioned that, you know, God still calls me to love Derek Chauvin,

00:38:56.300 which means that what I don't know, I can't pretend that I do. So all this right now, the last

00:39:04.340 two, three months, a lot of the destruction happening in America, a lot of the vitriol and

00:39:11.740 the division and all that is stemming primarily not from the fact that George Floyd was killed,

00:39:18.820 not really. The issue is that he was killed because of racism. The idea though is, but there's

00:39:27.700 no even evidence for racism. There isn't any evidence of that. So here we've built, again,

00:39:33.980 a false premise, which has led to very bad solutions. Right. So it's just that if we are not going to be

00:39:45.720 reacting faithfully, if we're not going to be focusing on blessing, it may sound a bit strange,

00:39:53.400 but, you know, bless, I want to bless, I want to bless a Derek Chauvin or anybody who has even done

00:40:01.520 wrong by making sure I'm thinking clear, clearly about that, because then I can love God faithfully.

00:40:08.580 I can love my neighbors faithfully and not be pushing ideologies or false premises that will end

00:40:15.460 up leading to horrible reactions, including riots and everything else. Right. So you and I know and

00:40:23.000 agree on the fact that obviously there are racists that exist in the sense that there are people who

00:40:29.820 hate, which is really the only ism that Jesus talks about is hate that starts in the heart.

00:40:36.800 But people hate based on skin color, people hate based on sex, they might hate based on nationality

00:40:43.340 or religion or something like that. And under the umbrella of hate that is condemned by God,

00:40:47.720 the Bible says, you can't love God and hate your brother. So we know that hatred based on anything,

00:40:52.660 including race, is a sin. And we know that that exists. At one point, it was systemic. Now, 0.99

00:40:57.760 some people still say that the legacy of that is here today, but let's maybe not get into all of

00:41:04.520 that and simply ask, what biblically does the Christian do when they see actual racism, when

00:41:12.540 they know that actual racists exist, when maybe they see a system or a practice or a process that

00:41:19.120 is discriminatory or where they see real injustice, for example, like abortion and through Planned

00:41:24.920 Parenthood. How does the Christian react to that in a way that is gospel-centered and that is biblical

00:41:32.020 without taking the tactics and the premises and the ideologies of the world?

00:41:39.680 Yeah. God calls us to—it's one of my favorite texts in the Bible. It's a very simple text, but

00:41:46.060 it's abhor evil or hate evil, love good, and establish justice. We would not have—the West,

00:41:58.740 you know, coming from Ghana, you know, a very poor African country, coming from, you know, 1.00

00:42:04.440 Ghana and coming to the West, the influence of biblical theology has been very—I mean,

00:42:12.560 you see that in the West. And I'm saying that because a lot of Christians founded, you know,

00:42:23.080 these Western nations based on Christian principles. Not, of course, perfect principles—not

00:42:27.080 perfect, not perfectly, but it was—the Bible clearly was very much a huge foundation for them.

00:42:33.900 I mention this because, as you know, I'm a pro-life advocate, and the reason why I very much care

00:42:42.420 about that is because I know that Roe v. Wade in America and over here in Canada, abortion is legal

00:42:48.160 and sanctioned. And Planned Parenthood and abortion centers very much target Black pre-born babies.

00:42:55.560 Well, God calls me to hate that, to love pre-born babies and to establish justice. So I respond to that.

00:43:02.740 Right now, my work is—I'm a community liaison, so I'm the one that is, you know, working to speak to pastors

00:43:12.060 and telling them—well, speaking with them as to how to get involved in the pro-life movement,

00:43:17.960 how we can share resources and how we can get their churches educated on this issue and how they can

00:43:23.960 come to the streets with us and go to different—you know, go to schools with us and just share the truth

00:43:30.040 and share God's truth about abortion. And by the grace of God, we've been able to save many lives

00:43:35.320 and change many minds. But we react to injustice. So right now, one of the issues with Black Lives Matter

00:43:43.040 or this critical theory movement and social justice is that you have them repaying evil for evil,

00:43:50.860 and then you have them using oftentimes racist means or unjust means in their mind to tackle unjust systems

00:44:00.580 or unjust laws, which of course is wrong. But you do so peacefully. You do so by listening. You do so

00:44:06.280 carefully. You do so making sure that you have the facts in front of you, that you are not, you know,

00:44:11.220 going to also forget the gospel in light of that. Christ was living in a very—when he was on earth,

00:44:17.780 he was living in a very unjust culture. The Roman Empire was brutally oppressive. And he said certain

00:44:28.160 things that we know—he, of course, knew that the Romans were oppressive. We know that. And yet his

00:44:34.080 focus was the gospel. And we can't forget that, right? And also, if you live in this culture, you are going

00:44:40.880 to have some form of injustice against you, either systemically or just relationally. But you react to

00:44:50.660 that by being patient, by, of course, saying, hey, brother, sister, or your neighbor, you've sinned,

00:44:56.960 you've done this, and let's talk about why that's wrong, and let's tell you the solution against that

00:45:01.700 and addressing the gospel.

00:45:02.540 Yes. And you gave such a perfect picture of how to fight an injustice like abortion with the gospel,

00:45:12.280 but you're also going out there, you're changing people's minds, and you're sharing the gospel,

00:45:17.360 but you're also talking about the brutal reality of what abortion is and why pre-born babies do matter

00:45:22.800 and why they should be saved. In the same way, if someone, for example, they see something that is a

00:45:30.420 tangible injustice in regards to discrimination against a black person or discrimination against

00:45:36.140 any other kind of person, that is a tangible injustice, there is the possibility, of course,

00:45:42.900 and the responsibility, I would say, to preach the gospel into that and to do work in accordance to

00:45:50.640 what the Bible says. Now, that's very different than this kind of nebulous idea of so-called doing

00:45:54.720 the work of anti-racism, which is basically an equivalent to just saying, oh, well, we need socialism,

00:45:59.620 and that is how we are going to make everyone equal, and we need reparations and all of that.

00:46:04.180 There is a way to speak up and to say, hey, you know, this practice is oppressive against this one

00:46:10.840 group of people, this socioeconomic class or immigrants or whatever it is. I think the important

00:46:15.900 thing is that we are getting our definition of what justice is from the Bible. God's justice is

00:46:23.160 impartial, so it doesn't show partiality to the great or to the poor, to one skin color or another.

00:46:29.240 It is direct. It is individual. It is fair. And so we apply God's principles of justice to the

00:46:37.460 things that we care about and how we go about fighting against them. And we also make sure

00:46:42.960 that the things that we are told are injustices here are actual injustices. So looking at basic

00:46:48.540 data, basic facts to see if something is actually true, that does actually matter.

00:46:55.580 I think a lot of times we unfortunately, what we hear an example of systemic racism is just looking

00:47:02.880 at disparities between two groups and attributing that, as you have explained, to racism. While the

00:47:08.720 Christian is responsible for, as you articulated so well, saying, but is that due to that? Do I know

00:47:15.800 that? Or are there other policies in place? For example, lack of school choice or unconditional welfare?

00:47:22.060 Or are the politicians in these cities, predominantly minority cities, are they not doing their jobs

00:47:28.660 well? Do they have a corrupt prosecutor, a corrupt mayor? And so it is, we are beholden to the truth

00:47:36.500 and to facts and to looking at actual policies and prescriptions.

00:47:40.200 Yes. I'm so glad you mentioned that because the whole premise for systemic racism today,

00:47:45.980 or for the perceptions of injustice against Black people in our societies today is based on

00:47:51.600 disparities. But there are major problems that comes with that. If we believe that, then we have

00:47:58.820 to believe, as many anti-racists are forced to believe today because of their ideology, that we live in a

00:48:05.860 more racist society today than going back to the, how did the civil rights movement in the 60s?

00:48:13.020 Which many of them have said this, that we live in a much more sinister, more covert, but more sinister

00:48:19.000 and more, you know, a worse oppression against Black people today than before. Why? Because the

00:48:25.720 disparities today are worse now than they were 50 years ago. Right? So if we believe that, then we have

00:48:33.760 to, if we believe that disparities are evidence for racism or systemic racism. Now, of course,

00:48:40.460 that can be true, but, but not independently. So, right. Right. You can have a system that is unjust

00:48:49.100 that will lead to disparities like slavery segregation, of course. Right. But disparities on their own do not

00:48:54.840 prove discrimination. And I know you're a big fan of Thomas Sowell. So, um, we know he wrote that book,

00:49:00.500 that, you know, that brilliant book on disparities and discrimination. Yes. But, um, but on top of that,

00:49:06.980 you also have major issues theologically as well.

00:49:10.460 And so essentially God was the, was, you know, was, was the king of ancient, ancient Israel,

00:49:18.140 the Mosaic law that, you know, that God, you know, the law that God gave to the, uh, the ancient,

00:49:24.040 um, you know, Jews, uh, through Moses, there was no provision for ending disparities, none whatsoever.

00:49:32.100 Hmm. If we're saying that disparities is evidence for systemic racism, that we're saying God,

00:49:39.780 God's law is systemically racist or systemically oppressive against some of the groups, some of the

00:49:46.800 tribes in Israel that, but, but, you know, that for a fact would have been, um, would have been also

00:49:54.240 been, you know, this would have had, would have been, I guess, on the wrong end of disparities as

00:49:58.560 well. Also, you have the parable of the talents where, uh, Christ shares the example of the parable

00:50:04.320 of talents. And he talks about how there was a slave, there was a slave owner who gave his slaves,

00:50:09.760 um, he gave one five talents, which is essentially money for them to steal it over. And he gave another

00:50:15.880 one, two talents to be another one, one talent in the parable. Just going to keep it short in the

00:50:21.660 parable, God, Christ does not suggest disparities of talent is wrong. Not at all. In fact, the third

00:50:29.600 person who has the one talents who ends up bearing it and not being fruitful over it, when he, he ends

00:50:35.620 up complaining essentially over it, Christ rebukes that person because they're comparing their gifts.

00:50:45.460 Uh, they're comparing other people's gifts and comparing, and he's saying that, well, essentially

00:50:49.020 it's not fair. And I think that you are a wicked person for giving me this one talent. So I didn't

00:50:54.100 think anything of it. The point is disparities are not evidence for anything. Right. And when we start

00:51:01.800 thinking that way, we get into big trouble. And of course, historically, today, there is no society

00:51:08.540 today that does not have racial disparities, even as Thomas Sowell has said to even in families, you're

00:51:15.380 going to have, you know, with the same parents, same upbringing, everything else, you will have

00:51:19.680 disparities amongst the children in that family. And if you believe also that disparities are strictly

00:51:26.420 evidence for systemic racism, then what's the solution? What is it? I've asked many people,

00:51:33.160 how do you overcome systemic racism? When will you believe it's over? They all, they can't answer

00:51:39.560 that. Right. Because if, if you think it can only be, if you think that you can only defeat, um,

00:51:46.160 systemic racism, if you have parody, then there's no hope because that will never happen. But then the

00:51:52.820 only attempt, the only way to end it, of course, is where we go back to the wrong premise and the

00:51:58.380 wrong solution, where then the only solution then in their mind is socialism. Right. Because then the

00:52:04.000 attempt is then you have perfect equality of outcome, which never happens, of course, because

00:52:08.680 in socialism, it will always lead to a political elite that will then oppress the, you know, everybody

00:52:14.360 else who's equally poor. Right. As you see right now in Venezuela, the whole nation is essentially

00:52:19.280 equally poor, but the political elites are feeding, you know, are doing a good job of eating, um, you

00:52:24.720 know, um, very well for themselves. Right. Right. It's, they believe in redistributing the power in the

00:52:32.340 capital from the group that is traditionally known as the oppressor to the groups that are traditionally

00:52:38.900 known as the oppressed, whether or not the people in the oppressor group have actually been oppressors

00:52:44.780 and whether or not the people in the oppressed group have actually been oppressed. So along that

00:52:51.440 kind of thinking, the kind of thinking that says that all white people, no matter their station in

00:52:56.680 life, are inherently more privileged than all non-white people with that kind of mentality and 0.97

00:53:03.560 the mentality that says you have to have equal outcomes, you have to force equal outcomes, basically

00:53:09.280 taking everyone down to, it has to be, and this is not a racial statement, just in general,

00:53:14.340 you would have to take everyone down as Thomas Sowell says to the lowest common denominator. It's

00:53:19.640 always equality downward. It's never equality upward. And in that kind of thinking, you have

00:53:26.440 the poor white person from Appalachia who is told that he has more privilege than Oprah Winfrey, the only

00:53:32.420 female or one of the only female black billionaires in the world who was raised from poverty and of much

00:53:38.420 more racist America and through hard work has become a billionaire. We are told that the

00:53:44.280 poor white child living in a trailer without parents has more privilege and has to redistribute

00:53:51.080 that privilege in that wealth and capital equity, whatever it is, to someone like Kanye West or to

00:53:56.340 someone like Oprah Winfrey or to someone like Jay-Z. And that is the only solution that a lot of these

00:54:02.740 so-called anti-racists have to making everything equal. That is not God's definition of justice.

00:54:09.660 Now, I do want to clarify, and I want to see if you agree with this, where there is disparity

00:54:14.060 based on oppression, where we can look at something and say, hey, this is due to oppression. For

00:54:20.080 example, you gave good examples of Jim Crow and of slavery, obviously leading to disparities because

00:54:26.180 of discrimination, because of oppression, and that was wrong and unjust. But if that exists anywhere

00:54:30.900 today, for example, I think a good example of that is the lack of school choice, unfortunately,

00:54:36.420 in a lot of poor black communities. And so they're forced to go to a school that isn't necessarily

00:54:42.800 meeting their needs. That to me is a form of systemic injustice that disproportionately affects

00:54:49.660 black people. I do believe that Christians should be working for equity in that way so parents can,

00:54:57.720 you know, do what's best for their child. Do you agree with that? Or am I just kind of taking on my

00:55:02.600 own form of social justice? No, I absolutely agree with that. I think one of the ironies of our

00:55:09.720 society today is that you have men like Frederick Douglass, the abolitionists, where they advocated

00:55:14.540 for liberty. Today, you have social justice groups who are advocating for control of black people. 0.97

00:55:21.820 Right. It's a it's a it's a it's a bizarre world we live in where we should have because the biggest

00:55:32.540 problem for black people throughout black American black for black Americans throughout history has

00:55:37.300 been the government and the government not giving black people liberty. So why do we then want these 1.00

00:55:43.140 teacher unions and the government to be controlling and forcing parents and their kids to not be able to

00:55:49.300 choose for themselves where they want to be going to school? So school choice is very crucial as you as you

00:55:55.380 know, as well to school, you know, children who go to, you know, who go to, you know, who are not in that

00:56:02.320 public school system where they don't have any control. They don't do as well as as kids who are going to

00:56:07.700 these charter schools. Right. So that's very clear example that we don't care as a society or as or at least the

00:56:14.700 people who advocate against school choice. They don't the children's good isn't the benefit there.

00:56:21.340 The benefit is really unfortunately on the district unions who end up receiving so much money. I know

00:56:26.240 many of them complain about not receiving a lot of funding, but receive so much funding, but they're

00:56:29.840 not actually putting it on the children. They're just putting it on several other means.

00:56:34.960 Exactly. Exactly. Okay. Last question. You talked about in the beginning of this conversation,

00:56:40.760 how speaking about these things has unfortunately led to you losing friends. I can relate to that,

00:56:48.280 and I know a lot of people listening to this can relate to that, or at least they're afraid if they

00:56:52.340 do stand up and say some of the things that you just said that they are going to lose friends.

00:56:57.240 What is your encouragement and your advice to Christians in that same position?

00:57:02.020 Even the only sinless person in this world lost friends. That's Christ, right? Not only did he lose

00:57:16.020 friends, he lost his life because of the truth. Now, of course, I don't want to make any, you know,

00:57:24.440 we are not sinless. We are not God. We are not the savior of the world. But the truth is that if

00:57:31.800 you are going to be a faithful follower of Christ, if you are going to teach truth, if you're going to

00:57:42.760 teach truth, you're going to be saying unpopular things and offensive things, which will lead to

00:57:48.840 losing friends. But yet you will win so many people to difficult theology and really to loving their

00:57:57.720 neighbors. Because that's the, that's the thing here. I want to try and help people love their

00:58:04.140 neighbors. And I want to try and grow in loving my neighbors more. And if you, if you refuse to teach

00:58:12.180 the truth because you're afraid of the consequences, then we get right back to one of the things that

00:58:19.220 I've learned a lot through reading history and reading why so many people were quiet during the

00:58:25.640 civil rights movement or during the slave trade is because they were afraid of the consequences

00:58:30.140 of speaking out against slavery and segregation. We think, how could they do that? How, how could

00:58:39.100 they be quiet? Well, it's the same reason why we're quiet. It's the same reason why we're afraid

00:58:43.280 because they will lose friends because they will lose families. But my trust is that my faith is

00:58:49.140 and that I will never lose my savior. I'll never lose Christ. And he's my best friend by the grace,

00:58:54.560 you know, by his grace. So teach the truth. We lose friends. Yes, but you never lose Christ.

00:59:01.540 And by doing so, you never lose the truth will, which will help society. And especially in the

00:59:06.280 media, it will help your, you love your neighbors more. And what a relief too, that as we see so much

00:59:12.740 chaos and confusion waging in America, where people's definitions of justice and what is right

00:59:20.140 and what is wrong changes on a daily basis, just according to people's social whim and what the

00:59:25.500 outrage mob says and their solutions are either, they're both never ending and non-existent. They're

00:59:32.920 very elusive and intangible. Like what a relief it is for Christians that we have the ability to stand

00:59:39.940 on the solid rock of Jesus Christ, who is the same yesterday, today, and forever. And we have the

00:59:45.340 word of God, which is our objective source of truth and defines justice, defines what hope looks like,

00:59:51.000 what salvation looks like, what loving your neighbor looks like. And we have a gospel that tears down the

00:59:57.340 dividing walls of hostility between brothers and sisters in Christ. And so there's no reason for

01:00:02.760 Christians to apologize for the word of God, to apologize for the truth. We have a solid rock on which we 0.96

01:00:09.320 are standing. The rest of the world is standing on sinking sand, and it might look like they're

01:00:14.080 building something right now, but it won't last past the storm. And so that's something that I think

01:00:20.060 Christians can look forward to. Thank you so much for coming on my show. This was such an edifying

01:00:26.760 conversation, and you just have such a gentle and persistent and strong way of explaining things.

01:00:33.520 I know a lot of people are going to be blessed by this conversation. Can you tell everyone

01:00:37.500 where they can find you and follow you? Yes. People can, you know, find me on, well, first,

01:00:45.340 thank you so much for having me on. Of course. I, I'm, it's a huge honor. I'm a big fan of the show,

01:00:51.840 and it's a huge privilege. I know there's white privilege, but I feel very privileged to be on the

01:00:56.540 show. Well, thank you. It's a relatable privilege. But yeah, they can find me at slow2write.com,

01:01:03.740 that's my blog. And they can find me on social media too, on Facebook and Twitter and Instagram

01:01:08.900 as slow2write. They can also find me on Patreon if they choose to want to support me on, as also

01:01:14.220 slow2write. And then also they can look for the organization that I look for, which is CCBR or our

01:01:19.320 website endthekilling.ca, endthekilling.ca. And they can choose to support what we're doing here in

01:01:26.280 Canada. You know, I think a lot of Americans may not know this, but Canada is the only, essentially

01:01:31.200 really the only nation in the world. Next to, I suppose, are the two communist nations in North

01:01:36.360 Korea and China who have no laws at all against abortion. So abortion is completely, I know you 0.98

01:01:41.700 guys have had some states recently who have been expanding abortion to make it completely legal

01:01:48.300 towards the end of the pregnancy. And it's been the case here for the last 40 years or 30 years,

01:01:55.500 I should say. So yeah, so just, you know, if you choose to want to either be praying for us or

01:02:01.640 supporting us, endthekilling.ca, please do so. Well, thank you so much. This was an awesome

01:02:07.820 conversation and I will see you on Twitter. Thank you.

Relatable with Allie Beth Stuckey - August 10, 2020

Ep 286 ｜ How the Church Should Respond to Black Lives Matter ｜ Guest： Samuel Sey

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