Relatable with Allie Beth Stuckey - Ep 291 ｜ If You're Broken, 'Start Where You Are' ｜ Guest： Rashawn Copeland

00:00:00.000 Hey guys, welcome to Relatable.

00:00:12.620 Today I'm so excited about our conversation with Rashaun Copeland.

00:00:16.300 He hosts a podcast called Scripture and Stories.

00:00:19.520 He also is the author of a new book, Start Where You Are.

00:00:21.940 His testimony is incredible.

00:00:24.040 His ministry is so amazing and you are going to love this conversation.

00:00:30.760 I will just warn you, you are probably going to tear up multiple times throughout this

00:00:35.920 conversation like I did because the stories that he tells are just so powerful.

00:00:40.440 It's such an encouraging reminder of God's relentless love and pursuit of him.

00:00:49.020 And so this is a great little break from the politics and the craziness that we've been

00:00:53.840 talking about because we're in election season.

00:00:55.920 The fact of the matter is the subject of this conversation, the gospel and how God pursues

00:01:02.980 his children is the only thing that ultimately and eternally matters.

00:01:08.460 Yes, politics do matter because they affect people.

00:01:11.660 Policies affect real flesh and blood people that God cares about.

00:01:15.800 God cares about the things that happen here on earth.

00:01:18.380 He cares about earthly justice.

00:01:20.380 He cares about earthly right and wrong.

00:01:22.600 So it is important for us to talk about that.

00:01:25.060 But at the end of the day, what God is after, what we should all be after is the regeneration

00:01:30.540 of the heart that comes by grace through faith in God.

00:01:35.220 And so that is going to be the driver of this conversation today.

00:01:38.860 And I'm just so excited for you guys to listen to it.

00:01:41.000 Without further ado, here is Rashaun Copeland.

00:01:43.240 Rashaun, thanks so much for joining me.

00:01:45.740 Ali, I appreciate you.

00:01:47.180 I still can't believe it.

00:01:48.400 I'm chilling with you.

00:01:49.200 Really cool.

00:01:49.860 I'm excited.

00:01:51.000 Yes, I was on your podcast first and you had to come on my podcast because you also

00:01:56.380 have the book that you were talking about.

00:01:58.280 So we're going to talk about your story and why you wrote this book and what this book

00:02:02.560 is about and anything else that we want to get into today.

00:02:06.320 But first, will you tell everyone who may not know who you are and what you do?

00:02:11.500 Awesome.

00:02:12.140 Yeah.

00:02:12.320 So I guess to make it really short, I'm a minister who writes and a writer who preaches.

00:02:17.840 And I really embrace my position as a son.

00:02:20.900 I'm a follower of Christ and I'm a father to three kids under three, which is amazing.

00:02:27.300 Yeah.

00:02:27.540 Well, actually, three kids.

00:02:29.280 I'm sorry.

00:02:29.640 We got one in the in the womb still.

00:02:31.740 So congratulations.

00:02:33.760 Yeah.

00:02:34.220 I'm super excited.

00:02:35.460 Then I have a nine year old blended family. 0.85

00:02:37.140 I had some crazy days before I came to Christ, you know, I was acting a fool, but yeah, I'm

00:02:43.020 thankful for my son that is in my blended family.

00:02:46.200 He lives right down the road, not too far from me.

00:02:48.660 So I get to enjoy that.

00:02:50.080 It is a challenge at times though, but right.

00:02:53.240 Right.

00:02:53.560 So you are a minister, you are a writer and you just wrote a book, Start Where You Are.

00:02:59.960 What led you to write this book and what's it about?

00:03:04.160 Amazing.

00:03:04.600 Well, it was sort of birth like in a prison, in a jail, like I would work in this, this

00:03:11.060 jail and I would be talking to everyone from NBA cheerleaders who just got that DUI after 0.72

00:03:18.420 a game to guys that were facing life in prison or even death penalty.

00:03:24.440 And I would ask them about, you know, one, have they ever considered giving their life

00:03:29.060 to Christ?

00:03:29.540 I would try to share the gospel with them and different things like that.

00:03:32.180 But there was one thing they would always say, and it was this, it was, I need to get

00:03:37.780 myself together and then I'll, you know, go to God.

00:03:40.780 And I just wanted to write a book that is really one, a gospel crush course, something

00:03:46.300 that could remind people and share with them the biblical truth that you don't have to start,

00:03:53.080 you know, where you pretend to be, or you don't have to start perfect.

00:03:56.720 You start right where you are with God and he'll take you where you need to be.

00:03:59.920 And that's the idea behind the book.

00:04:02.320 You know, people look at bad resumes as we see, like Kanye West, for instance, people

00:04:07.640 were shocked whenever, you know, he sort of came to Christ.

00:04:11.120 And I'm not saying that, you know, he's, I don't know if he's fully a convert, but I

00:04:16.420 do know is that God's mighty and powerful.

00:04:18.860 He's mighty to save and he'll meet anybody where they are, regardless, irrespective of their

00:04:23.920 resume, you know?

00:04:25.280 So, yeah, so that was the heart behind it.

00:04:28.480 Start where you are.

00:04:29.940 And you experienced that yourself.

00:04:32.160 Can you talk a little bit about your story and how you became a Christian?

00:04:37.180 Definitely, Allie.

00:04:38.200 So I started off with being rejected, one, in the fourth grade by a teacher who told me

00:04:45.260 to never pick up a pen and write again.

00:04:47.040 And that sort of spurred on this journey that I had on trying to prove myself to everybody

00:04:53.540 all the time.

00:04:54.740 And I became a crazy, like massive people pleaser. 0.88

00:04:58.640 And I remember getting to this point, one, after being sexually abused at 11, I got to

00:05:04.400 this point where I was like, I'm about to, I'm about to do whatever I can just to, you

00:05:10.840 know, please myself at this point.

00:05:13.760 So I said, I'm going to prove to myself that I can live this sort of victorious life, this

00:05:19.600 life that is completely satisfied just around myself.

00:05:23.400 I was my own God to a certain extent.

00:05:25.840 And I remember just becoming a hedonist.

00:05:28.180 I indulged myself in parties, in liquor, even in the sort of light of football fame in high

00:05:36.080 school.

00:05:36.640 But I remember one day, this was a powerful, pivotal moment for me.

00:05:41.460 As I'm in my high school year, I was dating a young lady.

00:05:46.740 And unbeknown to me, she had just broke up with a guy who was from Chicago.

00:05:51.420 And this guy found out we were dating.

00:05:53.800 That was the MySpace days.

00:05:55.160 I don't know if you remember that.

00:05:56.560 Oh, I do.

00:05:57.180 I do.

00:05:57.620 Yeah, she took him off the friends list and put me number one.

00:06:02.980 And I was like, yeah, so he found out we were dating.

00:06:06.620 But one night we're sitting in this park and her phone rings and me being that prideful,

00:06:13.100 egotistical high school football star, future college football player.

00:06:18.160 I was prideful and I snatched her phone and you'll find out my ego was not my amigo.

00:06:24.260 I answer it. 0.99

00:06:25.580 And needless to say, this guy starts talking so much trash to me. 0.96

00:06:30.080 And here is what was totally unwise. 0.97

00:06:34.200 I told him to meet me.

00:06:36.420 I told him where we were.

00:06:37.960 And that was totally, that was crazy.

00:06:40.760 So needless to say, we're hanging in the car.

00:06:43.560 We're listening to this rap artist, 50 Cent Get Rich or Die Trying in the car.

00:06:48.840 And out of nowhere, 10 minutes later, this van pulls in.

00:06:53.600 Five guys jump out of the car.

00:06:55.280 I'm not talking about burgers.

00:06:56.520 Yeah, they jump out of the car.

00:06:59.520 They're walking towards us.

00:07:01.140 I frantically, but pridefully get out of the car.

00:07:04.440 I'm like, you know, I told her to chill, just sit there.

00:07:07.940 And I'm walking towards these guys fearfully.

00:07:10.560 But again, I'm that prideful, egotistical high school football player.

00:07:14.140 As I'm getting towards them, my heart is beating out of my chest.

00:07:17.360 My mind is everywhere.

00:07:18.860 I'm like, what is happening?

00:07:20.640 And then I get about seven feet away from this guy.

00:07:24.440 He reaches for his waistband.

00:07:26.820 He pulls out his pistol.

00:07:28.540 He waves it in the air.

00:07:30.000 I turn and I run.

00:07:31.260 I slip and I fall.

00:07:32.540 He stands over me.

00:07:33.900 Boom.

00:07:34.900 Boom.

00:07:35.860 Two gunshots.

00:07:37.600 For those five guys, they run off.

00:07:39.760 At this moment, I didn't know I was shot.

00:07:41.720 You know, the adrenaline was rolling.

00:07:43.480 I ran.

00:07:44.260 I dove at the left side of the car because I was fearful that they were going to finish

00:07:48.180 me off, boo, boo, boo, that they were going to bust at me and finish me off, leave me

00:07:51.680 dead.

00:07:52.840 And as I'm laying there, I look up into the passenger side of the car and the young girl's

00:07:59.480 gone.

00:08:00.300 And all of a sudden, I find myself on this cold cement and I felt this warm blood running

00:08:07.020 up my shirt.

00:08:08.480 And I'm looking around and no one's there.

00:08:11.460 My coaches aren't there.

00:08:13.200 My parents aren't there.

00:08:14.400 My friends aren't there.

00:08:16.440 My family members aren't there.

00:08:18.220 I was there all along.

00:08:20.040 And for the first time ever, with my whole heart, I cried out to God, the God of the universe,

00:08:24.600 the God I would hear about in high school that I knew of, but I didn't know him.

00:08:28.780 And somehow, like David in the book of Psalms 40, I waited patiently on the Lord and he heard

00:08:34.120 my cry.

00:08:35.680 And somehow, you know, he met me where I was.

00:08:38.340 He used the guy, which I call an angel, which was actually a police officer to come help me and

00:08:44.860 saved me from that moment, 20 minutes after leaking.

00:08:48.240 And I was weaving out of consciousness.

00:08:50.020 I should have died that night. 1.00

00:08:51.140 I was worthy of death and even hell.

00:08:53.700 But by God's mercy, he saved me that night.

00:08:57.400 Wow.

00:08:57.820 That is an amazing story.

00:09:00.000 So tell me about, tell me about your life after that.

00:09:03.500 Was it kind of a straight line from A to B where you started following Christ and you

00:09:09.220 were sanctified and you were slowly on, you know, the road of sanctification or what was

00:09:16.200 your life like after, after that night?

00:09:18.520 I wish I could have said that it just was rainbows and daisies after that in my walk with Christ.

00:09:27.240 But it wasn't.

00:09:28.200 I did, by the grace of God, have someone drop off a Bible when I was in the hospital that

00:09:33.340 night, losing my life.

00:09:34.580 And I began to, you know, I began to read different passages of scriptures and things that really

00:09:41.600 spoke to me.

00:09:42.700 It was really simple.

00:09:43.720 I started in Proverbs and it said, many are the plans of a man's heart, but it's the Lord's

00:09:49.120 purpose that prevails.

00:09:50.360 Like it was opening my eyes to some of those little nuggets that like, yeah, I got many

00:09:54.780 plans.

00:09:55.340 I have many plans, but God's purpose that prevails.

00:09:58.140 But here's the problem is when you don't have someone to disciple you, you know, you're

00:10:03.460 going to find yourself drifting and going with the flow, the current of the world, living

00:10:08.320 a life of compromise rather than life of conviction.

00:10:10.960 And I found myself living a life of compromise.

00:10:13.260 I began to, yeah, just get with those guys.

00:10:17.380 Psalms one, tell us not to bless are those who do not walk in step with the wicked, nor

00:10:21.960 take the way that sinners take or sit in the company of mockers.

00:10:25.240 But blessed are those who delight in the law of the Lord day and night.

00:10:28.240 And I wasn't, I went the total opposite route.

00:10:30.360 I began to get around athletes again.

00:10:32.380 When God healed me, when I was good to go, I began to get around all the wrong people.

00:10:37.060 And it was a toxic, toxic time.

00:10:39.460 I began to sleep around.

00:10:40.980 I tried to find, you know, different things to numb the pain rather than Christ, like

00:10:45.140 weed, alcohol, women. 1.00

00:10:47.860 But I wish I would have had that wisdom from Moses when he said, you know, Moses chose to

00:10:52.860 share in the affliction of God's people rather than the fleeting pleasures of sin.

00:10:56.680 I wish I would have known that.

00:10:58.340 I would have wish I would have known the power of community as well, instead of being a long

00:11:01.460 ranger.

00:11:01.840 But I didn't know.

00:11:03.460 So I drifted for a long time until he got me again later.

00:11:06.780 But yeah, I can totally relate to that.

00:11:10.600 And I know a lot of people listening can too, that we wish from the moment that we first

00:11:16.480 came to Christ or he came to us till now that it was a straight line from A to B that we

00:11:22.020 made all the right decisions and that we could just say that we have just been living in

00:11:26.580 righteousness by God's grace since then.

00:11:28.580 But unfortunately for a lot of people, we're prone to wander as the hymn goes.

00:11:34.240 And God's grace is so relentless and continuing to pursue us that he doesn't say, hey, I tried

00:11:39.420 to save you once and now you've disappointed me.

00:11:41.960 And so I'm going to turn my back on you.

00:11:43.720 But he is just so insistent in his pursuit of us.

00:11:47.120 And your story reminds me of that.

00:11:49.140 Can you talk about that next pivotal moment that I read about that you actually thought

00:11:54.520 this wasn't someone else ending your life, but you actually thought about ending your

00:11:58.860 own life right later on.

00:12:00.960 Can you talk about that moment and then what kind of led you to where you are now?

00:12:06.020 Yeah, for sure.

00:12:07.140 For sure, Allie.

00:12:08.200 And I remember, so I commissioned into the Army as an Army officer and I realized that

00:12:13.220 the nine to five wasn't the route I wanted to go.

00:12:16.260 And I was about to go AWOL and literally leave because comparison and discontentment drove

00:12:22.400 me to L.A. where my cousin was an actor.

00:12:25.820 He was in amazing movies like American Reunion, American Pie, and The Lucky One with Zac Efron.

00:12:33.400 I seen him out there doing his thing.

00:12:34.900 And that's why I believe Paul said comparison is antithetical to wisdom.

00:12:39.340 It's the opposite of being wise because comparison drove me to L.A.

00:12:42.900 And at this point, I totally, you know, felt the sense like I shouldn't be here.

00:12:50.880 And when I was out there, I began to, you know, become a Viner.

00:12:55.920 Although, you know, things were getting successful on the outside, you know, I became a hype man

00:13:01.240 for Soulja Boy, a rap artist and assigned to a huge talent agency out there.

00:13:08.380 Well, it was based out of New York, but things were going amazing.

00:13:12.020 But inside, I was miserable.

00:13:13.880 My soul was dwindling away.

00:13:16.280 And I remember one night, you know, as I'm wrestling between one, you know, this is how

00:13:21.680 far sin to take you.

00:13:23.340 Like, oh, I was wanting to even get I got to the point where I wanted to even look into

00:13:29.460 the porn industry.

00:13:30.280 It was that bad.

00:13:31.420 That's just to show you how dark things were.

00:13:33.700 Right.

00:13:34.000 And because I was looking for everything and it was just void, it was empty.

00:13:37.780 But here's the beautiful thing.

00:13:39.400 It's like God began to strip and prune and take things away from me.

00:13:43.480 Took relationships like best friends.

00:13:46.240 He took the girl that I was in love with that was at USC.

00:13:50.000 She had the law degree. 0.93

00:13:50.980 I thought she was going to be my wife. 0.86

00:13:52.640 But yeah, I was cheating on her on the side with the girl that was in the porn industry. 1.00

00:13:56.040 Like from from a standpoint, emotionally cheating.

00:13:58.580 I didn't actually physically cheat on her.

00:14:00.160 However, you know, this is where it all like hit the fan when she walked out, when when 0.98

00:14:06.240 the boys walked out and I'm sitting in this house, like empty and all along this house

00:14:11.920 in the valley, G wagon outside.

00:14:14.860 Like I said, I'm done.

00:14:16.500 I give up.

00:14:17.580 I give up on everything.

00:14:18.700 So I walked down the hallway and I went into this, you know, where we kept the pistol.

00:14:23.680 I grabbed the gun and I tell you, it felt like an eternity walking back to my room that

00:14:28.400 night and I got on my knees and I put this pistol in my mouth and I'm like, OK, I'm done.

00:14:34.920 I'm literally shaking. 0.94

00:14:36.640 I'm about to take my life.

00:14:37.840 I'm about to end it all.

00:14:38.720 What is the point of being in here?

00:14:40.140 Nobody will know if I do it right now.

00:14:42.600 And as I pull, you know, getting ready to pull the pistol.

00:14:46.720 And I take the gun out of my mouth.

00:14:48.500 I put it back in my mouth.

00:14:49.940 My phone lights up.

00:14:51.140 And this is why I'm so excited about what you do, Allie, and how you invest so much time

00:14:55.460 on digital, online, everything all across the board, like, and bringing hope to a dark

00:15:01.580 world is because someone I knew that I met at Baylor University months ago because my brother

00:15:07.400 was an athlete.

00:15:08.140 They're playing football.

00:15:09.480 It was the only Christian girl I was following.

00:15:11.540 She wrote a message and it said this and it said, oh, how wide, how deep, how vast the

00:15:18.820 love of God is and nothing in all creation can separate us from this love found in Christ

00:15:24.420 Jesus.

00:15:25.360 And when I began reading and reading, I started weeping and weeping for the first time.

00:15:30.080 It's like the gospel of grace and love hit me on head on like a semi truck.

00:15:35.160 It changed everything.

00:15:36.740 And I remember thinking of two things at that moment.

00:15:39.400 Number one, if I were to shoot myself, one, I would have to endure the same pain I went

00:15:45.640 through back when I was 17 if I weren't to die that night.

00:15:51.140 But number two is I'm going to have to stand before the somnipotent omniscient.

00:15:54.940 Yeah.

00:15:55.260 All knowing, all seeing God who's infinite and wisdom and knowledge and understanding, who's

00:15:59.800 loving, but he's also holy and he's a judge.

00:16:02.820 Am I ready to meet my maker?

00:16:04.340 And, you know, it just felt like that was the moment I had to unload my heavy soul to

00:16:11.520 this God who loved me the most.

00:16:13.680 And he met me there.

00:16:16.140 And yeah, it was just crazy.

00:16:17.940 And here's the beautiful far alley.

00:16:19.460 And I'll close out this story with this because I think it changes everything.

00:16:24.040 I fell asleep that night wrestling with God like Jacob.

00:16:27.140 You know, it wasn't perfect at that moment, but I did feel the presence of the Lord in

00:16:33.480 the room, the conviction of the Holy Spirit.

00:16:36.200 I acknowledged like the sin and brokenness and I gave it to the Lord.

00:16:39.840 But here's what was amazing.

00:16:41.580 I'll never forget about this.

00:16:42.640 I fell asleep four in the morning.

00:16:44.980 I wake up with this utterance, this sort of urge to look underneath the bed.

00:16:50.840 And in this home, our talent agency would have people in and out of this home all the time

00:16:55.960 and are different actors, different people who would come in and audition.

00:17:00.820 And needless to say, I never really took time to look underneath the bed.

00:17:04.400 So I look underneath the bed.

00:17:05.780 There's a suitcase I've never seen before.

00:17:07.860 I crack open the suitcase. 0.89

00:17:09.980 It was a bunch of dirty, stinky clothes and stuff.

00:17:12.500 But on the top, guess what book it was, Allie?

00:17:16.620 I don't know.

00:17:17.480 Oh, the B-I-B-L-E. 0.99

00:17:20.400 Yes, that's the book for me.

00:17:22.360 Wow.

00:17:22.500 I stand upon the word of God.

00:17:24.680 Yes, the B-I-B-L-E.

00:17:26.080 I cracked it open.

00:17:27.480 I began to read it and it began to read me.

00:17:30.260 And I read these red letters.

00:17:32.400 They stuck out like no other.

00:17:34.040 You know, when you open up a Bible, those red letters are going to stick out.

00:17:38.120 You know, they're going to jump off the page.

00:17:40.000 But I read this.

00:17:40.900 The very first verse I read was this.

00:17:43.960 He that wants to keep his life must lose it.

00:17:47.480 But he that loses his life for my name's sake shall gain it. 0.98

00:17:51.600 Oh, what does it profit a man to gain the whole world, but yet lose his soul?

00:17:57.320 I was like, I got to get right with God.

00:17:59.640 And it changed everything.

00:18:01.160 So I literally left everything that night.

00:18:03.680 Felt like the prodigal son.

00:18:04.820 I came to my senses, jumped on a city bus, left everything, stole the Bible.

00:18:09.660 Matter of fact, the Bible is the number one stolen book in the world.

00:18:12.060 I stole the Bible that night.

00:18:13.740 Jumped on the bus.

00:18:14.500 They took me downtown to the Greyhound station four hours later.

00:18:18.200 And I'm reading, reading the word.

00:18:20.020 And I finally get back on a 20 after a 20 hour bus ride to my brother's house after reading

00:18:25.980 the Bible for like 20 hours straight.

00:18:27.720 Didn't sleep.

00:18:28.360 I was finally drinking from the well that never runs dry.

00:18:32.380 Right.

00:18:32.940 It was over.

00:18:34.020 Oh, my goodness.

00:18:34.880 And then what did what did life look like after that?

00:18:37.920 I know that that could be a long story, but to summarize, how did you get into what you

00:18:43.400 do now?

00:18:44.060 You are a social media minister.

00:18:46.180 You really occupy a lot of your space online, but you also write.

00:18:50.300 And so how did God lead you into what you are doing right now?

00:18:55.220 Beautiful.

00:18:55.660 So when I got back here, oftentimes I feel like God would take us back to the place where

00:19:02.740 he met us to go free more people, like sort of what he did with Moses and deliver more

00:19:09.600 people.

00:19:10.260 And I felt this urge after, of course, sitting at the feet of Jesus for a while, because I

00:19:16.700 didn't know anything about anything when I came to the faith, it felt like.

00:19:21.020 But I did trust God.

00:19:22.460 And I think at that moment, he began to get men of God around me to really pour into me,

00:19:30.400 get me rooted in Christ and established and steadfast, built my spirit up to where it's

00:19:37.300 steadfast.

00:19:38.040 And, you know, I can grow in this faith walk because it ain't no cakewalk.

00:19:42.360 And finally, I got to this point where he sent me, he launched me into a prison ministry.

00:19:47.740 And I just started where I was and shared Jesus the best I could with spoken words.

00:19:53.600 I would be in pods with like 40 people, you know, sharing one, the gospel, but also sharing

00:20:00.180 spoken word poetry because it was just my talent coming out of the industry, you know,

00:20:04.960 and I'll do that the best I can.

00:20:06.560 We would be in pods with like 40 guys and it's not the best smell in place.

00:20:10.980 You know, it's also stinks a lot, the drunk tanks and all that.

00:20:15.560 But what was awesome about it, Allie, is that he later just started sort of tearing away

00:20:23.160 at the insecurity that I had of writing because my teacher told me to never pick up a pen and

00:20:27.960 write again.

00:20:28.480 She said my writing was weak.

00:20:29.860 I held on to that all the way until I came to Christ.

00:20:32.520 I hated books and it's crazy.

00:20:34.280 Only the goodness and love of God can have me writing a book now.

00:20:37.440 I'm like, what?

00:20:38.700 Like crazy, right?

00:20:41.640 But a lot like you, Allie, he just he just crushed me under the weight of my sin.

00:20:49.460 And yeah, and then he gave me an opportunity to share online.

00:20:54.300 He built up my courage to start opening up my mouth online and it began to reach people.

00:20:59.040 And here we are today.

00:21:00.020 And I'm so grateful that he used online to get to me like social media.

00:21:04.800 And yeah.

00:21:05.960 Yeah.

00:21:07.440 Okay, we will get right back into the conversation with Rashaun, but I got to tell you guys about

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00:23:05.880 Okay, back to our conversation.

00:23:13.560 What are some of the benefits and the challenges to having a ministry that is predominantly online?

00:23:22.420 I know you do a lot of in-person ministry as well, but with social media, you're able to

00:23:27.640 access people that you probably wouldn't typically access, but are there also some challenges just

00:23:33.400 because online can be so toxic?

00:23:35.920 How do you wade through the craziness and the noise and to point people to truth when there's

00:23:41.640 so many lies that are swirling on the internet?

00:23:44.180 So good.

00:23:46.120 And I think we spoke about this a little bit, even in your, when you came on my podcast is

00:23:51.720 one, I'm not going to be liked by everyone.

00:23:56.480 Like my savior wasn't even a like by everyone.

00:23:59.140 Like, so I got to be ready for whatever comes my way.

00:24:02.900 But there are a few things, there's a few things that I keep in mind every time I'm online.

00:24:08.960 I serve an audience of one and, you know, I need to be careful with trying to compete with

00:24:14.600 the glory of God.

00:24:15.860 But I also need to get off this, you know, sort of desire because my whole life I've been

00:24:22.020 fighting for applause.

00:24:23.160 So I need to, one, protect myself or not protect myself or make it feel like I need to protect

00:24:29.460 myself from critique of people, but also not be in this place where I need to fight for applause

00:24:36.200 because that's not what I'm called to do.

00:24:38.940 I'm called to lay the truth out there and let it land where it lands.

00:24:42.460 And also, you know, just bring the light of the glory of the gospel into this dark world

00:24:47.840 because it needs Jesus.

00:24:49.240 And I want to be the best vessel I can, but I'm still learning along the way every single day

00:24:55.060 because, yeah, it's just crazy.

00:24:56.680 It is toxic.

00:24:57.800 It is crazy.

00:24:58.340 We were talking, you know, before we actually started speaking on air about some of the

00:25:05.240 cultural movements that are going on right now, the political movements.

00:25:08.780 And we're not going to get too political, you know, in this conversation.

00:25:12.400 But you brought up to me the whole kind of defund the police movement.

00:25:17.540 And you have experience in the justice world.

00:25:21.260 Can you just kind of give me, if you want to, a little bit of commentary on what you think

00:25:26.160 about these worldly movements of so-called justice that are calling for things like defunding the

00:25:32.620 police?

00:25:33.780 I love that, Ali.

00:25:35.360 So I know this is a very sensitive topic.

00:25:38.220 I do want to tread lightly because I'm not an expert in this area, but I have experienced.

00:25:43.740 I've experienced so much, you know, in a talk.

00:25:47.920 I mean, there's beautiful sides of everything.

00:25:51.100 There's good and bad, ugly and indifferent everywhere.

00:25:53.980 And I've been to the place where, you know, one, I was left out, laid out, dead, leaking with my life, 0.96

00:26:03.560 you know, on the verge of being done at the hands of a young black man. 0.97

00:26:09.680 But it wasn't all his fault. 0.92

00:26:11.280 It was my pride.

00:26:12.360 It was also my sort of mindset, oppression mentality.

00:26:17.820 I was, my mindset was in the gutter, like, and I don't agree.

00:26:23.060 I don't agree personally with defunding the police, especially with the rise of the crime

00:26:27.860 that we see across America, because it was a police that saved me.

00:26:31.700 And if we defund the police and, you know, we sort of take away the tax rate, taxpayers' right

00:26:38.940 for safety and protection, what sense does that make?

00:26:42.740 And that's my, that's my hope is that we would really think through this.

00:26:47.280 And, you know, you look in the black community, my, you know, community, even my neighbor, 0.53

00:26:52.560 his brother was shot down and killed by a black man in the car next to him. 0.98

00:26:57.160 And most of the black man I'm in circles with have been victims of black crimes. 0.84

00:27:02.360 And I believe in, you know, someone can be a product of their own environment. 0.95

00:27:08.040 And when I'm thinking about the concern of this, you know, the black crime, 1.00

00:27:12.880 I think about 90% of black victims are killed by black assailants, you know, for the most part.

00:27:20.120 And shouldn't we be talking a little bit more about what's happening in our own communities? 0.53

00:27:24.220 And that, that's my, that's my own perspective, because everyone who's sort of broke into my

00:27:30.220 house, you know, pistol with my brother, hit me with a bat, sent me to the hospital was my

00:27:35.500 own brother or, you know, my brother, you know, the dude that was across the street from me.

00:27:40.840 So my prayer is that, man, we would really approach this as a biblically what justice looks like,

00:27:50.040 but also, you know, bringing peace, like in a biblical way, like, I don't know, it's just tough.

00:27:57.920 It's absurd to even think about defunding the police stuff.

00:28:01.740 Right.

00:28:01.900 Now, it's important that we reimagine public safety, I believe it's so important to reimagine

00:28:06.840 public safety, but to defund the police is crazy.

00:28:10.340 Yeah.

00:28:11.040 And ultimately, what these communities need is the same as what all communities need.

00:28:16.500 And that is not taking away the police, which honestly, doing so actually disproportionately

00:28:23.520 affects victims and potential victims, the people who are powerless.

00:28:28.500 And that is not the definition of biblical justice.

00:28:31.900 Now, you and I, of course, agree that police officers, that everyone has to be held accountable

00:28:35.900 for when they use too much force, when things are unjust, of course, but to your point, and

00:28:42.700 of course, I agree with it, trying to look at faulty solutions to real problems doesn't

00:28:48.800 work.

00:28:49.180 And ultimately, what you and I both know is that this community, like all communities,

00:28:54.440 they need heart change.

00:28:55.840 They need the gospel.

00:28:56.800 Yes, there are structural issues there.

00:28:59.120 I mean, the promotion of the family is important.

00:29:01.860 The promotion of our work and discipline, that's important.

00:29:05.000 For every single community and every single family.

00:29:07.740 But ultimately, there's a heart regeneration that is needed for all individuals, no matter

00:29:12.300 what our background is.

00:29:14.080 And that is what you do.

00:29:15.000 So you might not be a cultural or political commentator, but you are speaking into culture

00:29:19.780 and politics and the need for all of this when you are sharing the gospel, especially in

00:29:24.800 places like prisons where you went.

00:29:27.520 Do you have, sorry if I'm putting you on the spot, do you have a story, just even just one

00:29:34.400 story, maybe you share one in your book that you can tease for us.

00:29:37.180 A story of you sharing the gospel with someone who, like yourself at one point, was just so

00:29:42.980 down on himself, ready to, just ready to die, feeling like their life was purposeless.

00:29:48.920 Maybe they were in prison or maybe they were in just an adverse circumstance and you shared

00:29:52.920 the gospel.

00:29:53.900 God saved them and they turned their life around.

00:29:55.920 Can you give us an encouraging story of that?

00:29:58.140 Ooh, we got plenty.

00:30:00.420 It's so hard to choose from, but I do have one that sticks out, yeah, like a candle on

00:30:06.640 top of a, no, I'm just like, but check this out, Allie, like I'll never forget this.

00:30:12.200 One day I was hanging out, getting ready to start my shift.

00:30:16.220 It was a terrible day, it felt like, because it was just already so much outward, like

00:30:21.340 things going on outside of my workspace.

00:30:24.080 And I was just now getting ready to start a shift.

00:30:26.460 So I was not looking forward to being there, but it's so amazing how God works.

00:30:31.240 Like, so I'm starting off my shift downstairs in the basement.

00:30:34.700 I have to go up to disciplinary segregation to start my shift.

00:30:38.500 And anyone who knows about disciplinary segregation is that that's not really the most calm place.

00:30:46.500 It's not the coolest place to be.

00:30:48.180 And it's on top of the jail.

00:30:50.860 It's basically the jail within the jail.

00:30:52.660 And as I'm walking into the pod, you know, the pod gets rowdy.

00:30:57.320 Guys get crazy.

00:30:59.220 We got all kinds of inmates from all different walks of life with different, you know, crimes

00:31:04.140 they've committed.

00:31:05.060 But I go cell by cell, just encouraging some of the folks while working, you know, doing

00:31:11.700 little gospel, little letters and putting them underneath their cells.

00:31:14.840 I finally get to cell 12.

00:31:17.060 And in the cell, the inmate I was a little bit familiar with, but, you know, not so.

00:31:24.480 He sent me over to the middle of the pod.

00:31:26.520 He like cope.

00:31:27.260 He said cope.

00:31:28.180 And that's my last name, Copeland.

00:31:29.820 But he said, go over in to the middle of the pod to that table and go grab that book

00:31:34.780 for me.

00:31:35.140 I walk over to grab this book for him.

00:31:38.740 And as I'm walking back to give him this book, which was the Quran, I slide the Quran inside 0.89

00:31:44.840 of his little, you know, cubby where they feed him.

00:31:48.280 And he throws, unbeknownst to me, to my surprise, he throws urine on me.

00:31:52.900 Pee.

00:31:53.360 I can't make that up.

00:31:54.700 He throws, yeah, pee on me.

00:31:56.040 And it was hot. 0.97

00:31:57.180 It was stinky. 0.90

00:31:57.820 It was nasty. 0.98

00:31:58.540 I was frustrated, agitated.

00:32:00.760 Boy, I was going to go off on him.

00:32:02.960 However, somehow, by the grace of God, the Holy Spirit caught me down.

00:32:07.640 And as I began, you know, to hurry up and walk out the pod, I was doing it, you know,

00:32:13.020 natural as possible.

00:32:13.940 So it wouldn't look too weird.

00:32:15.560 But everyone was laughing at me.

00:32:17.440 It was so embarrassing.

00:32:19.560 I clicked the button.

00:32:20.840 I walk out and I hurry up, go downstairs and I throw my clothes off my uniform.

00:32:27.000 And I basically said to the commander, I quit.

00:32:30.940 I quit because he seen, they seen it on camera.

00:32:33.560 I give up.

00:32:34.400 I quit.

00:32:34.940 I'm out of here.

00:32:35.740 And I get out to the car and I jump in the car and I'm about to pill out.

00:32:40.960 And he's trying to work something out with me.

00:32:42.720 But I drive out of the jail, the gates, and I drive up one to one light, one light away

00:32:49.800 from the jail.

00:32:50.660 And I felt the gentle urge of the Holy Spirit to turn around, to go back.

00:32:55.840 And I was like, no, I'm not going back.

00:32:57.820 What do you mean go back?

00:32:58.820 I'm not going back.

00:32:59.720 And, you know, of course, God won.

00:33:02.980 I turned back around.

00:33:04.960 I drive the car back.

00:33:06.460 I park.

00:33:07.480 And I just felt, you know, the Lord told me to go upstairs.

00:33:10.860 And, you know, I carried my, you know, I went upstairs and I finally get to the pod where

00:33:18.120 he was.

00:33:18.620 I walk in.

00:33:19.240 They're laughing at me again.

00:33:20.360 They're laughing at me.

00:33:21.400 And then I'm walking closer to a cell.

00:33:24.120 I'm getting ready to go just address this guy.

00:33:26.920 And some reason I had this, you know, by the grace of God, I had this sense like this is

00:33:34.100 where the defining moment is.

00:33:36.060 You know, this a lot of times we feel like we'll be celebrated when we do the right thing

00:33:41.240 in the right moment.

00:33:42.060 But what happens when, you know, you respond, you know, in these moments?

00:33:46.820 And like, I was thinking through a lot.

00:33:48.420 So I finally get to a cell and I was just like, you know, Jesus loves you so much, bro.

00:33:53.920 And I want to share with you what he did for you.

00:33:57.240 And I just laid out the gospel to him, how Jesus died on the cross for him, for me, for

00:34:03.040 our sins, even for what you did to me today.

00:34:05.640 And he not only died on the cross for us, but he rose again on the third day with all

00:34:10.740 power in his hand.

00:34:12.500 And I began to, you know, share with him a little bit more.

00:34:16.180 We began to talk about his story.

00:34:18.140 But needless to say, I walk away about three minutes later.

00:34:22.580 I'm about to walk out.

00:34:24.140 And he was like, Cope, Cope, come back, come back.

00:34:26.920 And I walked back over there and tears were streaming down his face.

00:34:30.860 And he basically said, you know, when I was in the fourth grade, my mom walked out on me,

00:34:37.320 you know, because my dad was killed and I went into the foster care.

00:34:40.840 But ever since then, I've been in like 15 homes the first few years, like first until I got

00:34:48.240 out of high school.

00:34:49.520 And I was just blown away by his story.

00:34:51.840 But needless to say, he never was able to hear, you know, the gospel before.

00:34:56.200 And he gave his life to Christ.

00:34:57.980 Wow.

00:34:58.220 And yeah, he's waiting on you, bro.

00:35:00.960 And like, I traded out that Quran for the book of John. 0.98

00:35:04.860 And he began, we began to work through the book of John together.

00:35:07.740 And I spent the rest of the night with him.

00:35:09.840 And he ended up going off preaching.

00:35:11.860 He's leading an amazing church on the south side of Oklahoma City now.

00:35:15.760 Oh my goodness.

00:35:16.900 So God met him.

00:35:17.420 Yeah, yeah.

00:35:19.360 So it was amazing.

00:35:21.060 Amazing.

00:35:21.520 There are so many times in this conversation that I've been just holding back tears just

00:35:26.940 because God is so good.

00:35:29.680 His grace is so relentless.

00:35:31.080 And how he worked through you to then work through other people is so amazing.

00:35:36.360 And I just know this is going to be incredibly encouraging.

00:35:39.640 There's a lot of people that I think are looking around at the world right now, and they see

00:35:44.960 a lot of hopelessness.

00:35:46.500 They see a lot of despair.

00:35:48.740 And some people might be wondering who have lost jobs, who have lost family members, who

00:35:53.540 are destitute, who maybe are in the same place that you were, that some of the people that

00:35:58.100 you've ministered to have been.

00:36:00.960 And they're going to hear this conversation.

00:36:03.760 And they're going to remember that no matter what it looks like outside our window, no

00:36:08.140 matter what the circumstances, God has not abandoned you.

00:36:12.240 He has not forgotten about you.

00:36:14.060 If you're still alive, he has not given up on you.

00:36:18.300 And I'm just so encouraged.

00:36:19.960 I'm so encouraged by how God has worked through you and just the joy that you exude.

00:36:25.980 I, you know, think about that verse that the joy of the Lord is our strength.

00:36:29.980 And that, I think, is more important than ever for us to remember when the rest of the

00:36:34.860 world doesn't see any reason to rejoice, we see every reason to rejoice as Christians.

00:36:40.720 So can you please tell everyone where they can find you, where they can find your podcast,

00:36:47.200 and where they can find your book and what day your book comes out?

00:36:52.180 Amazing.

00:36:53.060 So yeah, you can find me at Rashaun Copeland, any platform or scriptures and stories podcast.

00:36:58.960 And my book is available everywhere on September 1st, but it's up for pre-order now.

00:37:04.840 So yeah, September 1st.

00:37:06.820 Thank you, Allie.

00:37:07.880 I've had a great time with you.

00:37:09.820 A few people I respect more than you.

00:37:12.280 So I just want you to know that very few.

00:37:14.500 So that means that means so much to me.

00:37:16.540 And I'm just so grateful for you and your ministry as well.

00:37:19.340 And thank you.

00:37:20.800 If y'all aren't watching on YouTube, he's holding up my book right now.

00:37:25.120 I can't wait until I can hold up your book.

00:37:27.000 I'm so excited for people to read it.

00:37:28.920 And I know exactly what it feels like to get that book out.

00:37:32.980 And also how awesome just the story of redemption from that fourth grade teacher so crazily telling

00:37:39.640 you that you should never pick up a pen again to God using the very ability that you were

00:37:44.840 told that you didn't have to share your story and the stories of others to proclaim the gospel.

00:37:49.500 It reminds me of 1 Corinthians 1, that God uses the things that are not to bring to nothing

00:37:56.360 the things that are.

00:37:57.540 He uses the things that are unexpected in the world, that are unbelieved in in the world,

00:38:02.980 the people that are unbelieved in or who are viewed as not good enough.

00:38:07.880 He uses those for his glory.

00:38:10.360 It's the weak and the far off that he uses, not the perfect and the independent.

00:38:14.340 So I'm just so thankful that we are both examples.

00:38:18.880 We are definitely both examples of God's just relentless redemption.

00:38:22.460 So thank you so much.

00:38:24.060 Thank you so much for sharing your story.

00:38:25.700 I'm so excited for your book, Start Where You Are.

00:38:27.880 I want everyone to get it.

00:38:29.140 Everyone subscribe to Scriptures and Stories podcast.

00:38:32.080 Awesome, encouraging podcast.

00:38:34.240 Follow Rashawn on Twitter, all that good stuff.

00:38:36.560 Is there anything else that you would like to leave people with?

00:38:38.700 I just want to say, I love your story.

00:38:42.440 If that counselor was not there to interject, come on, where would we be?

00:38:46.520 Where would we be?

00:38:47.980 Amen.

00:38:48.660 He just meets us in those darkest moments, doesn't he?

00:38:52.160 And when you least expect it, he shakes us by the shoulders and he doesn't have to do that.

00:38:56.760 Those moments that cause pain too, when you realize your sin, when you realize how far

00:39:01.800 you've gone, that hurts.

00:39:04.340 But it is like, you know, faithful are the wounds of a friend, right?

00:39:08.700 I mean, how thankful are we for those wounds that God causes us and uses to allow us to

00:39:14.940 repent?

00:39:15.440 So praise God.

00:39:16.140 I'm going to be praising God all day because of our conversation.

00:39:19.100 So thank you so much.

00:39:21.420 Okay, guys, I hope that you enjoyed that conversation as much as I did.

00:39:25.400 Just so encouraging.

00:39:26.600 Want to remind you guys, you're not enough and that's okay.

00:39:30.180 Escaping the Toxic Culture of Self-Love.

00:39:32.120 My first book is available anywhere you get your books.

00:39:35.040 You can go to AllieBethStuckey.com slash book.

00:39:37.960 We go through five cultural myths that young women especially are believing today from their

00:39:44.020 teenage years and beyond.

00:39:46.040 A lot of people ask me, is there something in it that I can get out of it if I'm a man?

00:39:50.420 And yes, certainly.

00:39:51.440 Now, the pink cover probably gives away who the target audience is.

00:39:54.920 But we break down all of these myths that are really prevalent among males and females.

00:40:01.980 But I think they're particularly popular among young women, like you're perfect the way you 0.99

00:40:06.880 are.

00:40:07.200 You can't love other people until you love yourself.

00:40:09.440 You determine your own truth.

00:40:10.800 All of these empty platitudes that sound really good, but actually place a burden on us that

00:40:15.800 we just are not responsible or even able to bear.

00:40:19.880 We talk about the importance of working hard for the sake of working hard.

00:40:22.880 We talk about where truth comes from and how that determines our worldview.

00:40:26.760 That includes our view of politics and justice and culture and social issues.

00:40:30.960 We talk about cancel culture.

00:40:32.520 We talk about the importance of, if you can, getting married and having kids, taking on 0.91

00:40:37.040 responsibilities that might be hard, but give the fulfillment that we are trying and failing

00:40:42.740 to find inside of ourselves.

00:40:44.380 So this is not a book that is encouraging us to revel in our inadequacies and our insecurities.

00:40:51.820 It is realizing that God made us not enough.

00:40:55.540 He made us finite.

00:40:56.820 He made us dependent.

00:40:58.300 He made us to need Him not only for our salvation, but also for our strength, for our sanctification,

00:41:03.540 for our satisfaction.

00:41:04.800 All the things that, again, we are trying and failing to find inside of ourselves.

00:41:09.580 The theme is that the self can't be both the problem and the solution.

00:41:13.440 And the fact of the matter is, according to every study that I've seen, the two youngest

00:41:17.460 generations in this country, millennials and Generation Z, are miserable. 0.73

00:41:21.200 We report higher rates of loneliness, higher rates of purposelessness, higher rates of depression,

00:41:27.480 anxiety, and suicide.

00:41:29.220 And a lot of that is because we have been removed from the institutions like church and like

00:41:34.000 family, like community that have not only made this country great, but also have helped

00:41:38.960 human beings thrive.

00:41:40.200 We have embraced this hyper-individualized life that is filled with instant gratification

00:41:46.160 and constant superficial comparison and constant self-focus that is not making us happier.

00:41:52.700 So this is going back to the principles, the institutions, the values, and the biblical truths

00:41:59.860 that God has created us to need for our own fulfillment.

00:42:05.300 And so if this sounds like a book that could be interesting to you, you can get it on Audible.

00:42:10.300 You can get it on Kindle.

00:42:11.260 It's available on Amazon.

00:42:12.880 AllieBethStuckey.com slash book should be available at your local public library or bookstore

00:42:17.440 as well.

00:42:18.140 If you are a woman, make sure that you join Women's Book Club with Allie Stuckey. 1.00

00:42:21.760 We are starting the discussion this weekend with videos by me and questions by me that you

00:42:28.260 can only get, that you can only get if you join Women's Book Club with Allie Stuckey. 1.00

00:42:32.880 And make sure that you fill out all of the security questions as well so I can know that

00:42:38.480 you're a real person.

00:42:39.720 You're not just a troll.

00:42:41.020 Okay. 0.86

00:42:41.620 That's all I have for you today.

00:42:42.840 I will be back here on Monday.

00:42:44.480 Bye.

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Relatable with Allie Beth Stuckey - August 21, 2020

Ep 291 ｜ If You're Broken, 'Start Where You Are' ｜ Guest： Rashawn Copeland

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