Ep 291 ｜ If You're Broken, 'Start Where You Are' ｜ Guest： Rashawn Copeland
Episode Stats
Words per Minute
181.80405
Summary
In this episode of Relatable, I sit down with Rashaun Copeland, host of the podcast, Scripture and Stories, and author of the new book, Start Where You Are. In this episode, we talk about how he became a Christian, why he decided to write a book, and what the book is about.
Transcript
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Today I'm so excited about our conversation with Rashaun Copeland.
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He hosts a podcast called Scripture and Stories.
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He also is the author of a new book, Start Where You Are.
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His ministry is so amazing and you are going to love this conversation.
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I will just warn you, you are probably going to tear up multiple times throughout this
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conversation like I did because the stories that he tells are just so powerful.
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It's such an encouraging reminder of God's relentless love and pursuit of him.
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And so this is a great little break from the politics and the craziness that we've been
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talking about because we're in election season.
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The fact of the matter is the subject of this conversation, the gospel and how God pursues
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his children is the only thing that ultimately and eternally matters.
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Yes, politics do matter because they affect people.
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Policies affect real flesh and blood people that God cares about.
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God cares about the things that happen here on earth.
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But at the end of the day, what God is after, what we should all be after is the regeneration
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of the heart that comes by grace through faith in God.
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And so that is going to be the driver of this conversation today.
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And I'm just so excited for you guys to listen to it.
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Yes, I was on your podcast first and you had to come on my podcast because you also
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So we're going to talk about your story and why you wrote this book and what this book
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is about and anything else that we want to get into today.
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But first, will you tell everyone who may not know who you are and what you do?
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So I guess to make it really short, I'm a minister who writes and a writer who preaches.
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I'm a follower of Christ and I'm a father to three kids under three, which is amazing.
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I had some crazy days before I came to Christ, you know, I was acting a fool, but yeah, I'm
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thankful for my son that is in my blended family.
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He lives right down the road, not too far from me.
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So you are a minister, you are a writer and you just wrote a book, Start Where You Are.
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What led you to write this book and what's it about?
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Well, it was sort of birth like in a prison, in a jail, like I would work in this, this
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jail and I would be talking to everyone from NBA cheerleaders who just got that DUI after
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a game to guys that were facing life in prison or even death penalty.
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And I would ask them about, you know, one, have they ever considered giving their life
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I would try to share the gospel with them and different things like that.
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But there was one thing they would always say, and it was this, it was, I need to get
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myself together and then I'll, you know, go to God.
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And I just wanted to write a book that is really one, a gospel crush course, something
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that could remind people and share with them the biblical truth that you don't have to start,
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you know, where you pretend to be, or you don't have to start perfect.
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You start right where you are with God and he'll take you where you need to be.
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You know, people look at bad resumes as we see, like Kanye West, for instance, people
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were shocked whenever, you know, he sort of came to Christ.
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And I'm not saying that, you know, he's, I don't know if he's fully a convert, but I
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He's mighty to save and he'll meet anybody where they are, regardless, irrespective of their
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Can you talk a little bit about your story and how you became a Christian?
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So I started off with being rejected, one, in the fourth grade by a teacher who told me
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And that sort of spurred on this journey that I had on trying to prove myself to everybody
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And I became a crazy, like massive people pleaser.
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And I remember getting to this point, one, after being sexually abused at 11, I got to
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this point where I was like, I'm about to, I'm about to do whatever I can just to, you
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So I said, I'm going to prove to myself that I can live this sort of victorious life, this
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life that is completely satisfied just around myself.
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I indulged myself in parties, in liquor, even in the sort of light of football fame in high
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But I remember one day, this was a powerful, pivotal moment for me.
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As I'm in my high school year, I was dating a young lady.
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And unbeknown to me, she had just broke up with a guy who was from Chicago.
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Yeah, she took him off the friends list and put me number one.
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And I was like, yeah, so he found out we were dating.
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But one night we're sitting in this park and her phone rings and me being that prideful,
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egotistical high school football star, future college football player.
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I was prideful and I snatched her phone and you'll find out my ego was not my amigo.
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And needless to say, this guy starts talking so much trash to me.
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We're listening to this rap artist, 50 Cent Get Rich or Die Trying in the car.
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And out of nowhere, 10 minutes later, this van pulls in.
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I frantically, but pridefully get out of the car.
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I'm like, you know, I told her to chill, just sit there.
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But again, I'm that prideful, egotistical high school football player.
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As I'm getting towards them, my heart is beating out of my chest.
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And then I get about seven feet away from this guy.
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I dove at the left side of the car because I was fearful that they were going to finish
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me off, boo, boo, boo, that they were going to bust at me and finish me off, leave me
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And as I'm laying there, I look up into the passenger side of the car and the young girl's
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And all of a sudden, I find myself on this cold cement and I felt this warm blood running
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And for the first time ever, with my whole heart, I cried out to God, the God of the universe,
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the God I would hear about in high school that I knew of, but I didn't know him.
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And somehow, like David in the book of Psalms 40, I waited patiently on the Lord and he heard
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He used the guy, which I call an angel, which was actually a police officer to come help me and
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saved me from that moment, 20 minutes after leaking.
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So tell me about, tell me about your life after that.
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Was it kind of a straight line from A to B where you started following Christ and you
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were sanctified and you were slowly on, you know, the road of sanctification or what was
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I wish I could have said that it just was rainbows and daisies after that in my walk with Christ.
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I did, by the grace of God, have someone drop off a Bible when I was in the hospital that
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And I began to, you know, I began to read different passages of scriptures and things that really
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I started in Proverbs and it said, many are the plans of a man's heart, but it's the Lord's
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Like it was opening my eyes to some of those little nuggets that like, yeah, I got many
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I have many plans, but God's purpose that prevails.
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But here's the problem is when you don't have someone to disciple you, you know, you're
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going to find yourself drifting and going with the flow, the current of the world, living
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a life of compromise rather than life of conviction.
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And I found myself living a life of compromise.
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Psalms one, tell us not to bless are those who do not walk in step with the wicked, nor
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take the way that sinners take or sit in the company of mockers.
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But blessed are those who delight in the law of the Lord day and night.
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When God healed me, when I was good to go, I began to get around all the wrong people.
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I tried to find, you know, different things to numb the pain rather than Christ, like
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But I wish I would have had that wisdom from Moses when he said, you know, Moses chose to
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share in the affliction of God's people rather than the fleeting pleasures of sin.
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I would have wish I would have known the power of community as well, instead of being a long
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So I drifted for a long time until he got me again later.
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And I know a lot of people listening can too, that we wish from the moment that we first
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came to Christ or he came to us till now that it was a straight line from A to B that we
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made all the right decisions and that we could just say that we have just been living in
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But unfortunately for a lot of people, we're prone to wander as the hymn goes.
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And God's grace is so relentless and continuing to pursue us that he doesn't say, hey, I tried
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to save you once and now you've disappointed me.
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But he is just so insistent in his pursuit of us.
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Can you talk about that next pivotal moment that I read about that you actually thought
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this wasn't someone else ending your life, but you actually thought about ending your
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Can you talk about that moment and then what kind of led you to where you are now?
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And I remember, so I commissioned into the Army as an Army officer and I realized that
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the nine to five wasn't the route I wanted to go.
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And I was about to go AWOL and literally leave because comparison and discontentment drove
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He was in amazing movies like American Reunion, American Pie, and The Lucky One with Zac Efron.
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And that's why I believe Paul said comparison is antithetical to wisdom.
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It's the opposite of being wise because comparison drove me to L.A.
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And at this point, I totally, you know, felt the sense like I shouldn't be here.
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And when I was out there, I began to, you know, become a Viner.
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Although, you know, things were getting successful on the outside, you know, I became a hype man
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for Soulja Boy, a rap artist and assigned to a huge talent agency out there.
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Well, it was based out of New York, but things were going amazing.
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And I remember one night, you know, as I'm wrestling between one, you know, this is how
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Like, oh, I was wanting to even get I got to the point where I wanted to even look into
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And because I was looking for everything and it was just void, it was empty.
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It's like God began to strip and prune and take things away from me.
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He took the girl that I was in love with that was at USC.
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But yeah, I was cheating on her on the side with the girl that was in the porn industry.
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Like from from a standpoint, emotionally cheating.
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However, you know, this is where it all like hit the fan when she walked out, when when
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the boys walked out and I'm sitting in this house, like empty and all along this house
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So I walked down the hallway and I went into this, you know, where we kept the pistol.
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I grabbed the gun and I tell you, it felt like an eternity walking back to my room that
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night and I got on my knees and I put this pistol in my mouth and I'm like, OK, I'm done.
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And as I pull, you know, getting ready to pull the pistol.
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And this is why I'm so excited about what you do, Allie, and how you invest so much time
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on digital, online, everything all across the board, like, and bringing hope to a dark
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world is because someone I knew that I met at Baylor University months ago because my brother
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It was the only Christian girl I was following.
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She wrote a message and it said this and it said, oh, how wide, how deep, how vast the
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love of God is and nothing in all creation can separate us from this love found in Christ
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And when I began reading and reading, I started weeping and weeping for the first time.
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It's like the gospel of grace and love hit me on head on like a semi truck.
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And I remember thinking of two things at that moment.
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Number one, if I were to shoot myself, one, I would have to endure the same pain I went
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through back when I was 17 if I weren't to die that night.
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But number two is I'm going to have to stand before the somnipotent omniscient.
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All knowing, all seeing God who's infinite and wisdom and knowledge and understanding, who's
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And, you know, it just felt like that was the moment I had to unload my heavy soul to
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And I'll close out this story with this because I think it changes everything.
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I fell asleep that night wrestling with God like Jacob.
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You know, it wasn't perfect at that moment, but I did feel the presence of the Lord in
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I acknowledged like the sin and brokenness and I gave it to the Lord.
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I wake up with this utterance, this sort of urge to look underneath the bed.
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And in this home, our talent agency would have people in and out of this home all the time
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and are different actors, different people who would come in and audition.
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And needless to say, I never really took time to look underneath the bed.
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It was a bunch of dirty, stinky clothes and stuff.
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You know, when you open up a Bible, those red letters are going to stick out.
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But he that loses his life for my name's sake shall gain it.
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Oh, what does it profit a man to gain the whole world, but yet lose his soul?
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I came to my senses, jumped on a city bus, left everything, stole the Bible.
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Matter of fact, the Bible is the number one stolen book in the world.
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They took me downtown to the Greyhound station four hours later.
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And I finally get back on a 20 after a 20 hour bus ride to my brother's house after reading
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I was finally drinking from the well that never runs dry.
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And then what did what did life look like after that?
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I know that that could be a long story, but to summarize, how did you get into what you
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You really occupy a lot of your space online, but you also write.
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And so how did God lead you into what you are doing right now?
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So when I got back here, oftentimes I feel like God would take us back to the place where
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he met us to go free more people, like sort of what he did with Moses and deliver more
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And I felt this urge after, of course, sitting at the feet of Jesus for a while, because I
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didn't know anything about anything when I came to the faith, it felt like.
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And I think at that moment, he began to get men of God around me to really pour into me,
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get me rooted in Christ and established and steadfast, built my spirit up to where it's
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And, you know, I can grow in this faith walk because it ain't no cakewalk.
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And finally, I got to this point where he sent me, he launched me into a prison ministry.
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And I just started where I was and shared Jesus the best I could with spoken words.
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I would be in pods with like 40 people, you know, sharing one, the gospel, but also sharing
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spoken word poetry because it was just my talent coming out of the industry, you know,
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We would be in pods with like 40 guys and it's not the best smell in place.
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You know, it's also stinks a lot, the drunk tanks and all that.
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But what was awesome about it, Allie, is that he later just started sort of tearing away
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at the insecurity that I had of writing because my teacher told me to never pick up a pen and
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I held on to that all the way until I came to Christ.
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Only the goodness and love of God can have me writing a book now.
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But a lot like you, Allie, he just he just crushed me under the weight of my sin.
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And yeah, and then he gave me an opportunity to share online.
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He built up my courage to start opening up my mouth online and it began to reach people.
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And I'm so grateful that he used online to get to me like social media.
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00:23:13.560
What are some of the benefits and the challenges to having a ministry that is predominantly online?
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I know you do a lot of in-person ministry as well, but with social media, you're able to
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access people that you probably wouldn't typically access, but are there also some challenges just
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How do you wade through the craziness and the noise and to point people to truth when there's
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so many lies that are swirling on the internet?
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And I think we spoke about this a little bit, even in your, when you came on my podcast is
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Like, so I got to be ready for whatever comes my way.
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But there are a few things, there's a few things that I keep in mind every time I'm online.
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I serve an audience of one and, you know, I need to be careful with trying to compete with
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But I also need to get off this, you know, sort of desire because my whole life I've been
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So I need to, one, protect myself or not protect myself or make it feel like I need to protect
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myself from critique of people, but also not be in this place where I need to fight for applause
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I'm called to lay the truth out there and let it land where it lands.
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And also, you know, just bring the light of the glory of the gospel into this dark world
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And I want to be the best vessel I can, but I'm still learning along the way every single day
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We were talking, you know, before we actually started speaking on air about some of the
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cultural movements that are going on right now, the political movements.
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And we're not going to get too political, you know, in this conversation.
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But you brought up to me the whole kind of defund the police movement.
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Can you just kind of give me, if you want to, a little bit of commentary on what you think
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about these worldly movements of so-called justice that are calling for things like defunding the
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I do want to tread lightly because I'm not an expert in this area, but I have experienced.
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There's good and bad, ugly and indifferent everywhere.
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And I've been to the place where, you know, one, I was left out, laid out, dead, leaking with my life,
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you know, on the verge of being done at the hands of a young black man.
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It was also my sort of mindset, oppression mentality.
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I was, my mindset was in the gutter, like, and I don't agree.
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I don't agree personally with defunding the police, especially with the rise of the crime
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that we see across America, because it was a police that saved me.
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And if we defund the police and, you know, we sort of take away the tax rate, taxpayers' right
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for safety and protection, what sense does that make?
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And that's my, that's my hope is that we would really think through this.
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And, you know, you look in the black community, my, you know, community, even my neighbor,
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his brother was shot down and killed by a black man in the car next to him.
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And most of the black man I'm in circles with have been victims of black crimes.
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And I believe in, you know, someone can be a product of their own environment.
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And when I'm thinking about the concern of this, you know, the black crime,
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I think about 90% of black victims are killed by black assailants, you know, for the most part.
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And shouldn't we be talking a little bit more about what's happening in our own communities?
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And that, that's my, that's my own perspective, because everyone who's sort of broke into my
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house, you know, pistol with my brother, hit me with a bat, sent me to the hospital was my
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own brother or, you know, my brother, you know, the dude that was across the street from me.
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So my prayer is that, man, we would really approach this as a biblically what justice looks like,
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but also, you know, bringing peace, like in a biblical way, like, I don't know, it's just tough.
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It's absurd to even think about defunding the police stuff.
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Now, it's important that we reimagine public safety, I believe it's so important to reimagine
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public safety, but to defund the police is crazy.
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And ultimately, what these communities need is the same as what all communities need.
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And that is not taking away the police, which honestly, doing so actually disproportionately
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affects victims and potential victims, the people who are powerless.
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And that is not the definition of biblical justice.
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Now, you and I, of course, agree that police officers, that everyone has to be held accountable
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for when they use too much force, when things are unjust, of course, but to your point, and
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of course, I agree with it, trying to look at faulty solutions to real problems doesn't
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And ultimately, what you and I both know is that this community, like all communities,
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I mean, the promotion of the family is important.
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The promotion of our work and discipline, that's important.
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For every single community and every single family.
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But ultimately, there's a heart regeneration that is needed for all individuals, no matter
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So you might not be a cultural or political commentator, but you are speaking into culture
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and politics and the need for all of this when you are sharing the gospel, especially in
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Do you have, sorry if I'm putting you on the spot, do you have a story, just even just one
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story, maybe you share one in your book that you can tease for us.
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A story of you sharing the gospel with someone who, like yourself at one point, was just so
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down on himself, ready to, just ready to die, feeling like their life was purposeless.
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Maybe they were in prison or maybe they were in just an adverse circumstance and you shared
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God saved them and they turned their life around.
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It's so hard to choose from, but I do have one that sticks out, yeah, like a candle on
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top of a, no, I'm just like, but check this out, Allie, like I'll never forget this.
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One day I was hanging out, getting ready to start my shift.
00:30:16.220
It was a terrible day, it felt like, because it was just already so much outward, like
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And I was just now getting ready to start a shift.
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So I was not looking forward to being there, but it's so amazing how God works.
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Like, so I'm starting off my shift downstairs in the basement.
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I have to go up to disciplinary segregation to start my shift.
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And anyone who knows about disciplinary segregation is that that's not really the most calm place.
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And as I'm walking into the pod, you know, the pod gets rowdy.
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We got all kinds of inmates from all different walks of life with different, you know, crimes
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But I go cell by cell, just encouraging some of the folks while working, you know, doing
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little gospel, little letters and putting them underneath their cells.
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And in the cell, the inmate I was a little bit familiar with, but, you know, not so.
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But he said, go over in to the middle of the pod to that table and go grab that book
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And as I'm walking back to give him this book, which was the Quran, I slide the Quran inside
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of his little, you know, cubby where they feed him.
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And he throws, unbeknownst to me, to my surprise, he throws urine on me.
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However, somehow, by the grace of God, the Holy Spirit caught me down.
00:32:07.640
And as I began, you know, to hurry up and walk out the pod, I was doing it, you know,
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I walk out and I hurry up, go downstairs and I throw my clothes off my uniform.
00:32:30.940
I quit because he seen, they seen it on camera.
00:32:35.740
And I get out to the car and I jump in the car and I'm about to pill out.
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But I drive out of the jail, the gates, and I drive up one to one light, one light away
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And I felt the gentle urge of the Holy Spirit to turn around, to go back.
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And I just felt, you know, the Lord told me to go upstairs.
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And, you know, I carried my, you know, I went upstairs and I finally get to the pod where
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And some reason I had this, you know, by the grace of God, I had this sense like this is
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You know, this a lot of times we feel like we'll be celebrated when we do the right thing
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But what happens when, you know, you respond, you know, in these moments?
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So I finally get to a cell and I was just like, you know, Jesus loves you so much, bro.
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And I want to share with you what he did for you.
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And I just laid out the gospel to him, how Jesus died on the cross for him, for me, for
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And he not only died on the cross for us, but he rose again on the third day with all
00:34:12.500
And I began to, you know, share with him a little bit more.
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But needless to say, I walk away about three minutes later.
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And he was like, Cope, Cope, come back, come back.
00:34:26.920
And I walked back over there and tears were streaming down his face.
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And he basically said, you know, when I was in the fourth grade, my mom walked out on me,
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you know, because my dad was killed and I went into the foster care.
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But ever since then, I've been in like 15 homes the first few years, like first until I got
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But needless to say, he never was able to hear, you know, the gospel before.
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And like, I traded out that Quran for the book of John.
00:35:04.860
And he began, we began to work through the book of John together.
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He's leading an amazing church on the south side of Oklahoma City now.
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There are so many times in this conversation that I've been just holding back tears just
00:35:31.080
And how he worked through you to then work through other people is so amazing.
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And I just know this is going to be incredibly encouraging.
00:35:39.640
There's a lot of people that I think are looking around at the world right now, and they see
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And some people might be wondering who have lost jobs, who have lost family members, who
00:35:53.540
are destitute, who maybe are in the same place that you were, that some of the people that
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And they're going to remember that no matter what it looks like outside our window, no
00:36:08.140
matter what the circumstances, God has not abandoned you.
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If you're still alive, he has not given up on you.
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I'm so encouraged by how God has worked through you and just the joy that you exude.
00:36:25.980
I, you know, think about that verse that the joy of the Lord is our strength.
00:36:29.980
And that, I think, is more important than ever for us to remember when the rest of the
00:36:34.860
world doesn't see any reason to rejoice, we see every reason to rejoice as Christians.
00:36:40.720
So can you please tell everyone where they can find you, where they can find your podcast,
00:36:47.200
and where they can find your book and what day your book comes out?
00:36:53.060
So yeah, you can find me at Rashaun Copeland, any platform or scriptures and stories podcast.
00:36:58.960
And my book is available everywhere on September 1st, but it's up for pre-order now.
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And I'm just so grateful for you and your ministry as well.
00:37:20.800
If y'all aren't watching on YouTube, he's holding up my book right now.
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And I know exactly what it feels like to get that book out.
00:37:32.980
And also how awesome just the story of redemption from that fourth grade teacher so crazily telling
00:37:39.640
you that you should never pick up a pen again to God using the very ability that you were
00:37:44.840
told that you didn't have to share your story and the stories of others to proclaim the gospel.
00:37:49.500
It reminds me of 1 Corinthians 1, that God uses the things that are not to bring to nothing
00:37:57.540
He uses the things that are unexpected in the world, that are unbelieved in in the world,
00:38:02.980
the people that are unbelieved in or who are viewed as not good enough.
00:38:10.360
It's the weak and the far off that he uses, not the perfect and the independent.
00:38:14.340
So I'm just so thankful that we are both examples.
00:38:18.880
We are definitely both examples of God's just relentless redemption.
00:38:25.700
I'm so excited for your book, Start Where You Are.
00:38:29.140
Everyone subscribe to Scriptures and Stories podcast.
00:38:34.240
Follow Rashawn on Twitter, all that good stuff.
00:38:36.560
Is there anything else that you would like to leave people with?
00:38:42.440
If that counselor was not there to interject, come on, where would we be?
00:38:48.660
He just meets us in those darkest moments, doesn't he?
00:38:52.160
And when you least expect it, he shakes us by the shoulders and he doesn't have to do that.
00:38:56.760
Those moments that cause pain too, when you realize your sin, when you realize how far
00:39:04.340
But it is like, you know, faithful are the wounds of a friend, right?
00:39:08.700
I mean, how thankful are we for those wounds that God causes us and uses to allow us to
00:39:16.140
I'm going to be praising God all day because of our conversation.
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Okay, guys, I hope that you enjoyed that conversation as much as I did.
00:39:26.600
Want to remind you guys, you're not enough and that's okay.
00:39:32.120
My first book is available anywhere you get your books.
00:39:37.960
We go through five cultural myths that young women especially are believing today from their
00:39:46.040
A lot of people ask me, is there something in it that I can get out of it if I'm a man?
00:39:51.440
Now, the pink cover probably gives away who the target audience is.
00:39:54.920
But we break down all of these myths that are really prevalent among males and females.
00:40:01.980
But I think they're particularly popular among young women, like you're perfect the way you
00:40:07.200
You can't love other people until you love yourself.
00:40:10.800
All of these empty platitudes that sound really good, but actually place a burden on us that
00:40:15.800
we just are not responsible or even able to bear.
00:40:19.880
We talk about the importance of working hard for the sake of working hard.
00:40:22.880
We talk about where truth comes from and how that determines our worldview.
00:40:26.760
That includes our view of politics and justice and culture and social issues.
00:40:32.520
We talk about the importance of, if you can, getting married and having kids, taking on
00:40:37.040
responsibilities that might be hard, but give the fulfillment that we are trying and failing
00:40:44.380
So this is not a book that is encouraging us to revel in our inadequacies and our insecurities.
00:40:58.300
He made us to need Him not only for our salvation, but also for our strength, for our sanctification,
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All the things that, again, we are trying and failing to find inside of ourselves.
00:41:09.580
The theme is that the self can't be both the problem and the solution.
00:41:13.440
And the fact of the matter is, according to every study that I've seen, the two youngest
00:41:17.460
generations in this country, millennials and Generation Z, are miserable.
00:41:21.200
We report higher rates of loneliness, higher rates of purposelessness, higher rates of depression,
00:41:29.220
And a lot of that is because we have been removed from the institutions like church and like
00:41:34.000
family, like community that have not only made this country great, but also have helped
00:41:40.200
We have embraced this hyper-individualized life that is filled with instant gratification
00:41:46.160
and constant superficial comparison and constant self-focus that is not making us happier.
00:41:52.700
So this is going back to the principles, the institutions, the values, and the biblical truths
00:41:59.860
that God has created us to need for our own fulfillment.
00:42:05.300
And so if this sounds like a book that could be interesting to you, you can get it on Audible.
00:42:12.880
AllieBethStuckey.com slash book should be available at your local public library or bookstore
00:42:18.140
If you are a woman, make sure that you join Women's Book Club with Allie Stuckey.
00:42:21.760
We are starting the discussion this weekend with videos by me and questions by me that you
00:42:28.260
can only get, that you can only get if you join Women's Book Club with Allie Stuckey.
00:42:32.880
And make sure that you fill out all of the security questions as well so I can know that