Relatable with Allie Beth Stuckey - Ep 326 ｜ From Woke to Awake ｜ Guest： Dave Rubin

00:00:00.000 Hey guys, welcome to Relatable. Happy Friday. Today I am talking to my friend Dave Rubin.

00:00:15.140 He's been on the podcast before. He is one of the best people to talk to, the easiest

00:00:19.820 people to talk to. He has a lot of insight when it comes to conservatism versus leftism

00:00:25.020 since he was on the left and moved to the right. He's got some interesting projections about

00:00:30.420 the election and what's going to happen and the effect of, positive effect of Trumpism

00:00:35.980 on America. So I'm really excited for you to listen to this conversation. Before we get

00:00:40.680 into it, I do want to take a quick break.

00:00:43.900 Okay. Without further ado, here is Dave Rubin. Dave, thanks so much for joining me.

00:00:58.000 Allie, it's good to be with you. Sitting with another human being.

00:01:01.400 I know. It's so crazy.

00:01:03.480 And we're not wearing masks.

00:01:05.240 I know. I think we're distanced enough though. I mean, I did do the measuring tape and I think

00:01:10.880 it just makes the cut. So hopefully it's okay. Yes. We don't want to infect each other.

00:01:16.520 No. Just with good ideas.

00:01:17.380 We don't. But I'm not sick. And I think some people have lost the science behind COVID because

00:01:24.360 you actually have to be sick to infect someone. I think some people think like taking your mask

00:01:29.620 off makes you have COVID and it makes you spread it to other people.

00:01:33.200 Let me get this straight. If two people who aren't sick are in contact with each other or just

00:01:37.660 close to each other, they can't infect each other?

00:01:40.140 Science. Science. I know. I didn't go to school for it.

00:01:43.720 Yeah.

00:01:44.120 And I don't have a degree in it. I'm not, I don't have a white coat or anything like that,

00:01:47.800 but I think that's how it works.

00:01:49.380 I was a political science major.

00:01:50.760 I do have glasses. Oh, there you go.

00:01:51.900 So there's science in that term.

00:01:53.200 And so that actually works. Well, thank you so much for being here.

00:01:56.100 You've been on my show before. I've been on your show. And so I think everyone knows who you are,

00:02:00.660 but can you tell us just quickly about your show and about your book?

00:02:04.500 Yeah. Well, my show is The Rubin Report, which is just an old school interview show.

00:02:08.720 And I kind of started doing long form interviews before it was cool. Like sort of when nobody was

00:02:14.340 doing it. Now it feels like every, everybody and their brother has a podcast. I read a stat yesterday

00:02:19.060 that actually more people have podcasts than listen to podcasts.

00:02:22.940 What?

00:02:23.660 That was a joke. That was a joke, Stucky. That was a joke. You see what I did there?

00:02:26.640 Oh my gosh. I was like, how is that possible? But at the same time,

00:02:30.720 I know a lot of people who have podcasts that no one listens to. So I was like,

00:02:34.260 maybe it's true. There's some mathematical theory in there that could work, but everyone's sort of

00:02:39.500 got a podcast now and, and, you know, some are good, some aren't. It is what it is. But,

00:02:43.880 but really what I was doing about six years ago when I decided to do the long form interview,

00:02:48.420 it was just, it was when Vine was starting and Snapchat and all of these things and everything

00:02:53.400 was getting smaller and smaller and smaller. And I was just like, this is making me feel dumb. I don't 0.66

00:02:58.600 like this. Like I'm, maybe I'm too old for it. I don't know. And I just thought I want to sit down

00:03:03.900 with people and talk about stuff and see what happens. And that's what I started doing. I

00:03:10.140 started the interview version of the show in September of 2015. So it's a little over five

00:03:14.960 years ago. And, you know, I've had the pleasure and honor of sitting down with great thinkers and

00:03:20.660 philosophers and politicians and all sorts of stuff. And, and I guess my, what sort of really put me on

00:03:25.960 the map was that, you know, I was a big lefty and I was a Bernie supporter and all that. And I went

00:03:30.540 from woke to awake. So here we are. Yeah. And that's kind of what your book is about, right? Yeah.

00:03:35.380 Okay. So tell us a little bit about that and what inspired you to write it. So in essence,

00:03:39.600 don't burn this book. The idea is, well, it's what the subtitle is, which is thinking for yourself

00:03:44.340 in an age of unreason. I just want people to think for themselves. I mean, I lay out in the book,

00:03:48.700 all of my political positions. But I don't need you, literally you, I don't need you to

00:03:55.880 agree with me on all of those positions. I know that we disagree on some of those positions and

00:03:59.440 actually that's fine. And it's not just fine. It's what America is supposed to be.

00:04:03.960 Yeah. You know what I mean? Like we can hold positions very close to our heart that are very

00:04:08.540 important to us. But if you truly want to live in a country that America is supposed to be a

00:04:12.880 pluralistic society of now 350 million people from every walk on earth and from every culture and

00:04:19.900 ethnicity and all those things, well, then you have to accept that some people are going to think

00:04:23.460 differently than you. And, and you're going to have to create a space where they can live

00:04:27.680 differently than you. And that really is the point of the book. And the funny thing is that

00:04:31.980 what I think I lay out in there is a lot of common sense stuff. Like there's nothing in that book

00:04:37.880 that I don't think a sane person would say is radical or extremist. And yet the pushback against

00:04:43.620 me constantly is that I'm some crazy right-wing radical. And it's like, well, I am defending free

00:04:48.380 speech and I am defending open inquiry and, you know, the constitution, things that liberals used

00:04:53.540 to before. And now liberals have sort of just gone off the deep end.

00:04:57.840 And have been for forever. I always tell people, you're not the crazy one. Like you're not the

00:05:02.200 radical one for defending the things that people have defended for millennia. And in this country

00:05:06.980 for centuries, things like free speech, the left has moved to the left. And a lot of people say that,

00:05:11.960 you know, I didn't leave the democratic party, the democratic party left me. Do you feel like that?

00:05:17.960 Or do you feel like you really kind of made an evolution in your philosophy and your worldview?

00:05:23.740 I think it's two things. So, so the, the Reagan line, I didn't leave the democratic party,

00:05:27.900 the democratic party left me. So like, that is true. Like these people, what is the democratic

00:05:32.680 party now? Well, first off, it's hard to define what that is. Cause is the democratic party,

00:05:37.680 Joe Biden, like whatever that is, like an old Democrat who kind of doesn't know what he

00:05:42.800 believes anymore and has cognitive problems. And they sort of handed him the election. And is that

00:05:47.580 the Clinton Obama machine? Like, is that the democratic party or is it what I, what I actually

00:05:52.560 think it is? It's the progressive sort of lunacy that the AOCs and the Bernies and the giant

00:05:58.380 government answers for everything and identity politics, all the reverse ideas of what true

00:06:04.100 liberalism are and what America was founded on. So in one sense, the party left me because it moved

00:06:10.440 so far left. Although I, I've been trying to say that the left, right thing doesn't really make sense

00:06:14.960 anymore in a way they moved to collectivism and they moved to, to big government, I think is like

00:06:19.120 the easiest way to explain it. But that's not the full story because the, because I did also move

00:06:24.160 on some things. So like I've definitely moved right on economics for sure. Cause you were a Bernie's

00:06:29.760 supporter. So you supported some forms of collectivism. Absolutely. Yeah. I mean, I think

00:06:34.280 that's why people care about what I do is that I've just been honest along the road. Like you can

00:06:39.700 watch videos where I'm waking up to this stuff and I'm talking about it and I'm talking about it

00:06:44.660 honestly. And I, I really thought, and maybe this was just like naivete or something, but I thought

00:06:50.100 that as I was saying what's going on in my life and what my thoughts are, I thought the lefties were

00:06:57.380 going to be like, Oh yeah. Like maybe we should have some self-reflection. Maybe this identity politics

00:07:02.660 stuff is the reverse of liberalism. And a lot of them did join me on that adventure. Right. So a lot of the

00:07:07.460 bulk of my audience, I think is sort of what I would say are like retired or, or resigned lefties

00:07:12.520 who are now in effect, new conservatives, something like that. Um, but I, I definitely shifted to the

00:07:19.240 right on economics. Like I've started two businesses in the last couple of years. I know that if you

00:07:23.580 lower taxes, I can do more with my businesses and I can pay my people more and I pay for all their

00:07:28.580 health insurance and benefits. And I love doing that, but I don't do it. It's not just out of the

00:07:33.300 goodness of my heart. It's also that when I treat my guys well, they work harder for me and then we

00:07:38.360 can build something bigger. Um, the idea that the government just needs more and more of your stuff

00:07:43.780 so that it can do things that you may or may not agree with is crazy, but that's what the left's

00:07:49.040 answer is for everything. They will constantly tell you, you know, this is an evil patriarchal society

00:07:53.220 and capitalism is evil and the system is evil and everyone's corrupt. And what's the answer? We

00:07:57.520 better make it bigger. We better give it more money. So I would say that's the one place that I

00:08:01.540 really shifted pretty much everything else that I believe I think is, is pretty close to, to where

00:08:09.420 it was before. And when you were on the left, I'm sure you got pushed back from people on the right.

00:08:14.160 Yeah. And now that you're considered on the right, you get pushed back from people on the left.

00:08:19.900 Which do you think was the harsher, uh, criticism? Oh, Stucky, I think, I think, you know,

00:08:25.940 the answer to this one. I do, but I want to hear it from you. Yeah, yeah. Well, look, when I was on

00:08:32.060 the left, let's say, one of the things that the left does, as you know, is you can just dismiss all 0.87

00:08:37.020 of the people who argue with you because they're bigots and racist and homophobes. So it's like,

00:08:40.860 oh, a bigot doesn't like me, a Nazi doesn't like me. If anything, it makes you feel even loftier

00:08:46.080 and more confident in what you think. Yeah. I've got the right enemies, basically. Yeah. I mean,

00:08:50.320 you're fighting Nazis all day. Yeah. You're pretty spectacular. Yeah. You know what I mean? You're like

00:08:54.020 Captain America. This is amazing. You're punching Nazis. You're Indiana Jones. Yeah. Every single

00:08:58.200 day. Um, when, when I shifted, the hatred that I get from the lefties is incredible. It's bananas,

00:09:07.220 but, but it goes to the heart of what is wrong with leftism. They have decided in effect, if you

00:09:12.980 don't agree with us on all of these things, like not nine out of 10, you got to go 10 out of 10 and

00:09:18.500 not only 10 out of 10, you got to do it the second we do it. Yeah. You know what I mean? So it's like,

00:09:23.860 if we shift on one position, you got about a 10 minute window to join us. Otherwise you're the bad

00:09:29.140 guy too. And yet what's interesting on the right is on the right, there's all sorts of people who

00:09:34.640 think all sorts of different things. And they're also not obsessed with politics. And that's one of

00:09:39.560 the things that I really like about, like I would describe myself at this point as sort of like a new

00:09:45.080 conservative, something like that. You know, I think there's, there's probably a couple buckets

00:09:48.360 of what conservatives can be. And I have no problem. If someone says, Dave, you're a conservative

00:09:52.180 at this point, like if anything, I like it. Cause it's like, I can't really say I'm a liberal

00:09:56.380 anymore, even though it may be technically true by the 1750 definition of classical liberalism,

00:10:01.840 but like, you know, people understand the term now. And right. And I, and I tried for years,

00:10:06.520 you know, I was always telling Steven Crowder, Crowder, you got to stop saying the liberals.

00:10:09.560 You got to talk about the lefties and Dennis Prager and a whole bunch of other people we know

00:10:13.540 have, have been fighting this too. Right. But at some point, like the rubber kind of meets

00:10:18.100 the road and, and, and here we are. Um, but I would say people on the right, because their

00:10:23.440 worldview generally isn't shaped just around politics. So like, I think you do a really nice

00:10:29.620 job of this in that you talk about faith, you talk about things that are outside of the political

00:10:33.640 world. So you're not hysterical by every political decision because you know that your salvation

00:10:39.400 doesn't come from politics. My salvation doesn't come from politics. My, my, my meaning and purpose

00:10:44.580 doesn't come from politics in a weird way. Politics are secondary and tertiary. So if you

00:10:48.460 disagree on those things, then, you know, it's okay because it's not central to your worldview.

00:10:53.460 Of course. And by the way, I have no doubt that we have other philosophical differences in terms of

00:10:59.220 our worldview, but that's okay. Yeah. You know what I mean? That's okay. And that's what that it is

00:11:05.280 literally what being human is about. Right. That's the purpose of being a human with a brain to think

00:11:10.060 things through and come to conclusions yourself and all of those things. So I think people on the

00:11:15.220 right actually really revel in that idea. And it's not to say people on the right, can't try to

00:11:20.040 destroy people. And there are never Trumpers and Lincoln project versus the Trump people. And people

00:11:24.220 are angry at Romney. And that's, that's all sort of like little political positioning kind of stuff.

00:11:29.300 But generally speaking, I think people on the right, like people on the right, like having the

00:11:33.060 debate about abortion, people on the right, like having a debate about taxes and government and

00:11:37.380 states' rights. People on the left say, hey, you're with me or against me.

00:11:41.300 It's not debatable is what we hear. You hear about abortion, for example, which obviously is

00:11:45.860 something that is, is very important to me. It's not just a political issue. It's a moral and

00:11:50.720 theological issue. And as undebatable as I think, you know, sanctity of life is inside the womb,

00:11:57.800 I still want to engage and debate someone on it. Because quite frankly, I think that the pro-life

00:12:02.220 position is very strong. I'll debate anyone on it. But what you often hear from the pro-choice

00:12:07.360 and pro-abortion side is that bodily autonomy is undebatable. We don't, we don't want to debate

00:12:12.280 you. When people had tried to say, you know, a couple of years ago, please AOC, debate me,

00:12:17.000 debate me, people saying that and come on my show and all this stuff. It's not just that she was

00:12:21.640 afraid to do that. But I think leftism sees that as immoral. Because like you said, when you see the

00:12:27.960 opposition as a Nazi, are you really going to debate a Nazi about fascism? Of course you're not. You're

00:12:32.700 going to punch him. Well, not only should you not debate the Nazi, but if you were to be seen with 0.98

00:12:37.500 the Nazi, debating the Nazi, having a conversation with the Nazi, whatever it might be, well, then

00:12:41.500 you're a Nazi too. So that's what they've done. And by the way, this is not a new idea. This is what 0.78

00:12:47.340 communism and socialism and Marxism create. It creates finding enemies everywhere, which is why

00:12:54.080 just in the last week, you know, Biden is supposedly the president-elect. We can get into that if you want.

00:12:59.380 But what was like the first thing that came out after it? It was suddenly the lists.

00:13:04.780 You know, Pete Buttigieg's campaign manager, I think, created this Trump Accountability Act.

00:13:09.160 Two of his previous staffers, yeah.

00:13:10.660 Yeah. So then they've got lists of people who are co-conspirators and all of these things. And it's

00:13:15.520 like, this is the most anti... And by the way, AOC also talked about lists. It's like, this is the

00:13:20.220 most anti-American thing. And the weird thing is...

00:13:22.880 And Truth and Reconciliation Commission.

00:13:23.800 Truth and Reconciliation, yeah.

00:13:25.640 Yeah, that's going to work out for everybody. The bizarre truth is that these people are

00:13:31.220 everything that they purport Trump to be that he is not. Trump doesn't have lists. Trump isn't

00:13:37.100 trying to destroy anybody. Trump, every time he tweets, you can get a thousand blue check lefties

00:13:41.540 telling him he's going to burn in hell and that they want him to go to jail and all of these things. 0.93

00:13:45.220 And all of his followers.

00:13:45.680 You think it's going to be the other way? You think it's going to be the other way? I don't think so.

00:13:48.520 Well, I mean, we've seen that. I mean, we believed, as conservatives, we believed that Barack Obama,

00:13:54.740 we believed just as strongly that Barack Obama was destructive, divisive, bad for America policy-wise

00:14:01.020 as leftists believe Trump to be. Now, most of us weren't as hysterical and hyperbolic about it,

00:14:07.320 but we believe just as strongly in the destructiveness of the policies that Obama

00:14:11.400 pushed forward as leftists do about Trump and Trumpian policies. And yet you didn't see this

00:14:17.680 kind of reaction after Obama was in office. We didn't say, OK, we need a list for all of these

00:14:24.400 scandals. We need a list for people who supported the slowest economic recovery in history. Like,

00:14:29.580 we need a list of people who supported identity politics. It was no, like, let's engage with these

00:14:34.880 ideas. Let's let the best idea win. But like you said, leftism is against that. It's

00:14:41.260 always been against that. And it is fueled off of resentment, which is why it causes violence,

00:14:47.800 which is why it causes economic and social decay. Always in the name of compassion and

00:14:53.900 reconciliation, though. Well, you know, one of the things that I said the day after the 2016 election,

00:14:58.720 my studio at my house that you've been to wasn't even built yet. So I had to do a little

00:15:01.760 thing off my webcam. And what I said was, if you guys, now that Trump is president, whether you like

00:15:08.160 it or not, you better stop calling him Hitler, because it's not what you're doing to him. It's

00:15:14.180 what you're doing to yourself. So you call him Hitler. OK, he obviously isn't Hitler. But putting

00:15:19.800 that aside, it's what you're doing to yourself, because what if you find out that over the course

00:15:24.060 of the next four years, which I think is what we did find out, that he's actually a pretty decent

00:15:28.800 president. He governed in many ways as sort of a centrist conservative, except that he got things

00:15:34.000 done as a conservative, which usually conservatives aren't that good at. Right. He did a lot of stuff

00:15:37.740 with the courts. He got rid of regulation until covid. The economy was really chugging along.

00:15:42.400 Well, what if you find out that he doesn't murder people and put people in camps and do all the 0.62

00:15:47.080 horrific things that you've concocted in your brain? It's what you've done to yourself because

00:15:51.100 you've painted yourself into a corner. You can't suddenly be like, you know, it's a couple of

00:15:55.300 years later. And that Hitler guy I've been screaming about, he's not that Hitler or he's not that bad 0.97

00:15:59.800 because then you look like an idiot. And that's why they always double down. Yeah. That's why the 1.00

00:16:04.280 same people who got everything wrong four years ago and then for the last four years have gotten

00:16:08.440 everything wrong. It's why they're still getting it all wrong now, because they created an imaginary

00:16:14.000 orange Hitler who doesn't even exist. And they know that that's the thing they're against no matter 0.94

00:16:19.820 what. And that basically overrides whatever logic is left in there.

00:16:29.800 But at the same time, we've been hearing calls for unity, not just from Joe Biden himself, Kamala

00:16:38.120 Harris and a lot of Democrats. Michelle Obama pulled what I call a classic Obama saying, let's

00:16:43.580 come together with the people who voted for hate. So on the one hand, you're trying to say, oh,

00:16:49.620 we're so loving and kind. We're conciliatory. And everyone who didn't vote the way that I want

00:16:54.600 them to, they are hateful bigots. It's the same thing Obama did for eight years. What are we 0.84

00:16:59.720 supposed to do with that? Well, look, winning, I suppose, winning, at least in the temporary way

00:17:03.940 that they've won for now, let's say, is a strange drug. Because let's just say the results were

00:17:09.720 exactly the reverse. Just whatever numbers we're all buying right now, let's just say it was

00:17:13.900 completely the reverse. They would be saying burn down the country. They would literally, I mean,

00:17:18.800 why were all of these stores and they have been doing it? It's not that they just say it. You got to

00:17:23.060 give them credit for, you know, actually doing some of the stuff that they say, you know, there's

00:17:26.180 something, there's at least an honesty to that. But, but really, what would they be saying right

00:17:30.380 now? They would be saying Hitler, the far right has won. The system is evil. All of the things

00:17:35.420 that I discussed, capitalism is evil. You know, this is it. This is the civil war is here. That's

00:17:39.620 what they would be saying. But now that they believe that they've won, and I'm not so sure

00:17:44.240 that they've won, but now that they believe that they've won, now let's reach out. But what

00:17:48.040 they don't, what they don't mean is they don't mean let's reach out and, and treat you as

00:17:53.380 equals and welcoming. What they mean is behave, behave. We're back in power. We've got lists,

00:17:59.500 submit, shut up. Don't say anything. You're a bunch of bigots. And I think if Trump, regardless 0.97

00:18:04.340 of what happens here, if Trump has done one incredible thing, he showed people how to fight

00:18:08.920 back. That's it. That's it. That doesn't make him the greatest person in the history of the world.

00:18:14.060 And it doesn't make him whatever, but it does. He showed people, he modeled, we needed it to be

00:18:19.320 modeled. You can fight back against the media. You can fight back against big tech.

00:18:23.220 You can fight back against the establishment. My ability to do this and talk about these things

00:18:27.940 with a degree of confidence. It's not that I was watching Trump like, oh my God, how does he do it?

00:18:31.960 But it's like, oh, you can do it and survive. So, so now I do it. And by me doing it, I know that

00:18:37.560 affects other people. And hopefully that affects other people. And it's, it's a very Jordan

00:18:40.660 Peterson style thing. You have no idea how much power you have if you just start saying what you

00:18:45.080 believe. And I think Trump, that will be his greatest legacy no matter what happens now.

00:18:49.380 Yeah. Let's talk about Trump. You did not, I'm guessing, vote for him in 2016.

00:18:53.220 I didn't. I voted for Gary Johnson and I should be judged accordingly.

00:18:56.160 Yes. I, you know, a lot of people have revealed to me their deep, dark secret that they voted for

00:19:00.500 Evan McMullin.

00:19:01.340 Yeah. They're all regretting that guy. People are realizing that he's just as much of a crazy,

00:19:08.700 radical leftist in some ways, making his own list as actual liberals are. But you voted for him in 0.88

00:19:15.320 2020, correct?

00:19:16.600 Yeah. Very happily voted for him.

00:19:17.940 And I'm guessing we kind of have already articulated the reasons why you decided to do that. Let's talk

00:19:23.280 about what you think about the so-called results of the election and what you think is going to

00:19:27.320 happen. Well, first off, I would be okay if I voted for someone and they lost legitimately.

00:19:34.080 Yeah.

00:19:34.160 I just want to be very clear about that. I know that's a very controversial statement

00:19:37.080 these days, but I would accept the results. And as I said before, by the way, I wouldn't be

00:19:40.940 screaming in the streets because I don't think politics is everything. If anything, if Biden,

00:19:46.380 let's, before we get into what I think is going to happen here, if it comes out that Biden will win

00:19:51.300 this thing, like really legitimately won this thing, well, then I know I have work to do.

00:19:55.840 You know what I mean? Like, I mean that like in terms of my show and the ideas that I'm

00:19:59.900 putting forth and all of that, like I will, I kind of like being in the opposition. I think I would,

00:20:04.120 it would actually change me a little bit in a way.

00:20:05.700 And we always kind of feel like we are in the opposition, by the way. We always feel like the

00:20:09.500 underdogs, even if we've got our guy in the, in the white house, cause we kind of are.

00:20:13.320 Well, because right. Because even if there is a second Trump administration term, uh, you'd still be

00:20:19.720 against big Hollywood. You'd still be against big tech and all of those things. So, so I'm kind of

00:20:23.480 comfortable with that. And, and again, I don't have to win to accept that America is a good place,

00:20:27.720 which is the reverse of what these guys do. Um, that being said, it is look the night of the

00:20:33.760 election. It was looking really good for Trump. And we saw all of these States that are now very

00:20:38.320 close that have been called for Biden. Suddenly they all stopped. Suddenly they all stopped.

00:20:41.960 We all know that that's a fact. They all stopped their votes. Since when do we do that? Since when do

00:20:45.980 you not continue counting all at the same time?

00:20:48.960 Now, what they would say is what I've heard people push back and say is, look, some of these

00:20:53.980 States, like in Pennsylvania, for example, the GOP led legislature, uh, refused to pass a law to say

00:21:00.500 that you could count mail-in votes before election day. And so some of these States had, uh, rules that

00:21:06.860 you had to count the election day votes and then count the mail-in votes. So that's what they would

00:21:11.600 say caused the spike in Michigan and Wisconsin, for example, those mail-in votes that came in that we

00:21:17.780 knew would skew Biden. So what do you say to that?

00:21:20.040 Right. So we knew the mail-in would skew Biden because of COVID and that they were really pushing

00:21:23.700 it and all that. But as Bill Barr, the attorney general said in September, there's a great

00:21:27.120 interview with him and Wolf Blitzer.

00:21:28.640 Yes, I saw that.

00:21:29.180 We just played it on my show yesterday where he in effect is saying, we have never tried mail-in

00:21:34.080 ballots to this extent. We know they are rife with fraud. He actually gave a couple examples of it.

00:21:39.300 So I'm not saying that I'm, I'm actually not saying that anything illegal happened yet. I'm really not.

00:21:44.320 What I'm saying is there's a reason to think about it. And what, what is making me

00:21:49.780 more confident that something happened. And by the way, the beauty and weakness of America is

00:21:56.160 sort of being illustrated right now, because the beauty of America is all the States decide how

00:21:59.840 they want to do things. That's a beautiful thing. Right. And I know you're all for that too.

00:22:03.280 On the other hand, with all of these crazy rules that are inconsistent, it makes people kind of

00:22:08.720 bananas. So for example, in Pennsylvania, they did the attorney general, who of course is a lefty

00:22:13.540 decided that you don't even have to have your ballots postmarked by election day. Yeah.

00:22:18.740 That seems like kind of shady, right? Like it doesn't matter which side is going to,

00:22:22.460 but like, so that's an inconsistency in a rule that's different than Arizona and everything else.

00:22:26.500 And the fact that he didn't really place, he didn't allow us to place a lot of faith in him

00:22:30.760 when he said two days before election day on Twitter, Hey, when all the votes are counted,

00:22:34.460 Trump is going to lose. How do you know that?

00:22:36.600 He literally said that. I mean, people need to find the tweet.

00:22:39.300 Yeah. Yeah. You should maybe put the tweet up in this very show because that's what the attorney

00:22:43.360 general of Pennsylvania said before the election. Trump is going to lose. By the way, the attorney

00:22:49.460 general of Arizona, now they're coming out with all of her tweets. And years ago, she was calling

00:22:53.580 all Trump supporters, neo-Nazis and the rest of it. So the point is, the point is I don't believe

00:22:57.660 in perfect systems. I believe in human infallibility. I believe that there can be mistakes and,

00:23:02.640 and not only mistakes, but intentional, you know, moves to skew things. So with all of this,

00:23:09.020 it's not evidence yet, but things are starting to pop up. Now that we're hearing all this stuff

00:23:14.280 about the Dominion electronic voting systems and all this stuff. The point is, let's explore this

00:23:19.220 stuff. This is why we have a judicial branch. And at the end, I promise you, Ali, and I know you would

00:23:25.020 too. At the end, you know, if it's January 15th and they're like, we, we looked through everything.

00:23:29.960 We couldn't find anything. These 11,000 sworn affidavits, they all turned out to be nonsense

00:23:33.860 and everything else. Well, then Biden will be president. And guess what? Life, life will go

00:23:37.360 on. Maybe not in a capitalist free society, but, but it will go on. Yeah. And I also think I talked

00:23:42.500 to Jenna Ellis and she's a, you know, she's a Trump lawyer. And we talked about how the point of the

00:23:48.080 litigation is not to change the outcome of the election. It is to, it's to see if the fraud is

00:23:54.320 legitimate, not necessarily if it's decisive. It may be decisive and legitimate,

00:23:59.740 or it could be legitimate and not decisive. Absolutely. And so there could be a certain

00:24:03.900 number of votes that need to be thrown out because they were illegally cast. I mean,

00:24:07.200 we've already seen evidence of dead people voting, of people who didn't actually live in the state

00:24:12.280 anymore, getting an absentee vote and getting to vote. I've seen examples of that. That alone,

00:24:18.420 even if there's one vote like that, is enough to take it to court, in my opinion, whether or not this

00:24:23.280 was Biden or Trump doing it. Well, but that's, see, what's interesting about that is look at the way the

00:24:27.520 media is framing it right now. The headline of the New York Times yesterday, you know, there's

00:24:31.180 something to the effect of there's no fraud. The election has no fraud or what they keep saying is

00:24:35.740 there's no widespread fraud. Well, I guess that also depends on how you define widespread, right?

00:24:40.700 Like, what does that really mean? There's no technical definition of that related to American

00:24:45.120 elections and states' rights and all of those things. So they use all of this Orwellian language.

00:24:49.160 So you're like, oh, well, I guess there is no widespread fraud. And then you look at what's going on in

00:24:53.860 Michigan. And you're like, but wait a minute, all these dead people are voting. Like, there are weird

00:24:57.340 things. But the fact that the media is going all in on, there's nothing to see here. You know, there's

00:25:03.400 an exploding firework factory behind us, but there's nothing to see here. Please move on. There's nothing

00:25:07.320 to see here. They literally did that in Kenosha. These are mostly peaceful protests, huge fires behind us.

00:25:13.220 Yeah. So because they're doing that, I think it's actually adding fuel to the fire of the people on the

00:25:20.360 right who are going, no, no, no, no, no. Let me get this straight. The people who lie to us about

00:25:23.940 everything. The New York Times and CNN, they've all been unmasked over these last couple of years.

00:25:28.280 They lied to us everything. But this time they're telling us the truth. They're telling us the truth

00:25:32.820 about the fact that Hitler is not going to be reelected. Like, this is the one they're actually 0.98

00:25:37.020 being honest. It just doesn't make sense. It doesn't make sense. And they do this with everything.

00:25:41.400 They repeat the same talking points, all of the outlets and the, you know, the hosts on these

00:25:46.200 various shows, they all basically say the same thing, at least on the left. And there's just no

00:25:51.560 journalistic curiosity at all. I think if they said, look, we investigated all these claims

00:25:56.540 because we care about the integrity of the election too. You know, we couldn't find anything,

00:26:01.700 but look, we support the litigation because we supported the Russian investigation, which by the

00:26:07.740 way, so did I, in the sense that I always said, if there was Russian collusion by the Trump campaign,

00:26:13.560 I want to know that. Of course. And so I feel the same way now. It might not determine the outcome

00:26:18.860 or change the outcome, but I want to know. Ali, I have a good friend who I can't name his name

00:26:24.080 because he's an actual friend of mine, but he's a public person, you know, a blue check, Twitter

00:26:27.240 person, big Trump derangement stuff, whatever. Okay. He's very popular, right? He called me in the

00:26:33.560 middle of the Russiagate stuff. And he was very angry because he was saying that I wasn't saying

00:26:39.620 enough about Russiagate and that it's obviously true and all of this stuff. And I said, well,

00:26:43.040 what, what is true? And he said, this is now two years ago. He said, well, Donald Trump Jr.

00:26:48.380 had lunch with a Russian on the Upper East Side. Do you remember that for like a day there?

00:26:53.120 Trump Jr. had lunch. Honestly, I had a hard time keeping up with all of it.

00:26:56.100 Yeah, yeah, yeah. But there was like a three day span where everybody, you see, it's proof.

00:27:00.020 Trump Jr. had a 15 minute lunch with a Russian. It turned out to be absolutely nothing.

00:27:05.480 But right now that very same person is telling me that now the results of the election,

00:27:09.240 there's no reason to look into anything that it, yeah. So the very people who, you know,

00:27:13.960 and we see this, and this is why they've all been unmasked, that it's like, wait a minute,

00:27:18.520 you ran on something that we know not only was fraudulent, but then led to a sham impeachment,

00:27:23.980 right? Right before Corona, by the way, right before COVID. So it's like, if you, if you're

00:27:27.600 angry that Trump was, I was off the ball, maybe, I don't think that's necessarily a valid argument,

00:27:32.460 but that's what they'll say. He wants to pay. Well, it's because you guys were dragging him in

00:27:35.800 for a, for a sham impeachment. But the point is all of these people who said the Russians have

00:27:41.240 taken over our elections and are manipulating us through Twitter and Facebook and Trump is somehow

00:27:47.200 involved in all of that. Now there's literally nothing we can look at right now. Yeah. That's,

00:27:52.720 that's bananas. Like that's actually bananas. From the day that he was elected, Hillary Clinton said

00:27:58.260 that it was illegitimate. She wrote a whole book called What Happened? And it didn't have anything 0.60

00:28:03.380 to do with the fact that she didn't go to Michigan and Wisconsin. It didn't have anything to do with

00:28:07.580 her, you know, unlikability or whatever it was, her failure as a candidate. It had to do somewhat

00:28:13.160 with conspiracy theories of how Trump got away with it, with Russia, white supremacy, internalized

00:28:20.020 misogyny with women had nothing to do with, you know, the, the effectiveness of her as a candidate. 0.79

00:28:26.820 That's what they did for four years. It was illegitimate. It was either illegitimate or because of

00:28:31.860 racism. But now when we're saying, Hey, we're not going to burn things down. We're not freaking

00:28:36.560 out. We're not really worried. Even we just want to know the integrity of our elections. You're a

00:28:42.640 conspiracy theorist and you're dangerous. And we're going to put you on a list. It's crazy. 0.95

00:28:46.600 They want to make us all feel like Alex Jones. That's really what they're trying to do. That if

00:28:51.140 you even look into this, forget the list, you're also bananas. You're, you're insane in effect. 1.00

00:28:56.240 Like you're a crazy person with a tinfoil hat. Yeah. The, what I would say the, the real silver 1.00

00:29:01.260 lining at the moment, like if anyone's watching this going, I just still feel weird about the

00:29:05.880 whole thing, you know, or let's say potentially I voted for Trump, but like, I just, I'm worried

00:29:11.120 about what's going to happen. Trump has beat the media and the political establishment and the

00:29:16.360 machine at every single turn. Yeah. The amount of videos that you've seen on MSNBC, the walls are

00:29:21.780 closing in. The end days are here. Everyone's turning on him, which they're doing right now.

00:29:25.760 The Trump Melania is telling him to back out. It's all just made up theater nonsense. The

00:29:30.800 silver lining I think is that because he has beat them systematically or systemically, depending

00:29:36.780 on which way you like it. The fact that he has done that at every turn about impeachment,

00:29:40.460 about Russia, about Ukraine, all of these things, right? I don't think he came this far to

00:29:47.240 know that at the end you're at the final boss of the video game, that he didn't have a secret

00:29:52.460 weapon. I, I think he probably knows things. Um, and even in the last half hour, right before

00:29:57.660 we started this, he went on this Twitter thread about the Dominion software and that it was reversing

00:30:02.720 votes. So it's like, okay, well now the, the rubber's about to meet the road, man. You can't

00:30:06.760 just say this stuff in all caps if it ain't true. So if you, if you know, it's true and that's

00:30:11.060 why you tweeted it, well, then we're going to start needing to see some receipts. And I suspect

00:30:15.280 they're there. Maybe I'm wrong. Maybe I'm wrong. And he's just like literally going crazy right

00:30:20.660 now and tweeting in all caps. So you think it's a possibility that he could still be president?

00:30:25.340 Oh, absolutely. You do? Yeah. I mean, I mean, why not? Like if, if, if they're going to uncover

00:30:31.120 these things and each day, like these weird things keep leaking out and it gets to the courts and the

00:30:36.500 courts actually do their job. Well then it's, it's what we're saying. I mean, in essence, the courts

00:30:41.420 will either say, okay, this is all nonsense or it's not. And if it's not, and it's come out to a

00:30:46.780 degree that is widespread or at least enough to flip some of these states. Well then I can't imagine

00:30:54.120 the meltdown though. I mean, we saw, so I don't know if you heard about this, but COVID actually

00:31:00.780 took a break. So COVID said, you know what you guys, I'm going to go celebrate too. You guys go

00:31:07.520 celebrate in the street. I'm not going to infect any of you. And so what we saw was masses of

00:31:11.800 people. I saw this girl, she had her mask on. She took down her mask. Yeah. Drink the champagne,

00:31:18.220 pass the bottle to someone else, pulled up her mask. Perfect depiction of liberal logic on COVID. 0.57

00:31:23.700 And you saw a bunch of people in the media saying, you know, like Chris Hayes, we need this. We,

00:31:29.500 you know what, wear your mask, but we need this. We need these mosh pits. This is just, you know, 0.99

00:31:34.680 the dawn of hope and opportunity for America. We're out of that dark, dark part of our history.

00:31:41.460 Because COVID could only spread depending on your political ideology. That's really what

00:31:45.500 they've been telling us. We've learned that it is, that it is very woke. So what do you think

00:31:49.240 the media, and now it seems to be back to COVID concern. Right. So we had two days. So on Saturday

00:31:55.400 morning was when they called, you know, the AP called the election. Again, it's not called in terms

00:32:00.440 of the electoral college. The constant, you know, nothing has been ratified here, but in effect,

00:32:03.960 that's when the AP did it. And now the other news outlets have done it. So we had, we had about 48

00:32:08.540 hours of celebrations. We're drinking champagne. We're spitting in each other's mouths. I mean,

00:32:12.980 it was just absolutely bananas. But then what I think what they thought in effect was that,

00:32:19.220 oh, Trump's just going to lie down. Like it's, it's here and that's it. But what happened by Monday

00:32:24.280 was Trump decided to fight back. Now you may not like that. You may think it's illegitimate.

00:32:29.380 You may think he's a nutbag. And some of that may be true at some level, but because he fought 0.66

00:32:34.940 back, as I said before, he modeled to people how to fight back. So there was a real feeling amongst

00:32:40.340 like, you know, our chattering class of like, oh, maybe it is over over the weekend. It doesn't

00:32:45.680 feel like that. Now people are suddenly like, no, I am going to fight this to the end. But again,

00:32:51.020 if he loses, then we'll accept it. But like people are standing up and we owe him credit for that.

00:32:59.000 As, as, as individuals, as Americans, we owe him credit for that. Just because the system tells

00:33:05.100 you something, it doesn't mean it's true. And it's like, look, what's happening with COVID right

00:33:08.380 now. Now they're making it sound like it's worse than ever before. Right? Like, and now we've got

00:33:12.020 to start national federal lockdowns. Yeah. Yeah. Isn't it odd that not one hospital has been overrun

00:33:17.500 in the United States? And yet we're hearing that that is what's happening right now. There were a couple

00:33:21.660 stories like that, um, uh, right before the election. And, you know, I really try not to

00:33:28.200 be a conspiracy theorist. I was talking to a friend about this last night, that it's so easy to start

00:33:33.600 jumping to conclusions that you're not, you don't know are true because we don't have a media that

00:33:38.940 does tell us the truth and everything is so political and everything is used as a bludgeon

00:33:44.060 against Trump that you can't even trust them when they said that the hospitals are going to be

00:33:47.480 overwhelmed because they weren't. So why would we believe this now? So you're constantly trying to

00:33:51.800 be like, okay, does this connect to this? And what's really behind this? You almost have to.

00:33:55.880 Allie, do you remember two weeks to flatten the curve? That was eight months ago, eight months ago.

00:34:00.560 And now they're telling us, no, we just need six more weeks of a federal lockdown. It's nonsense.

00:34:06.580 And I think what happened, I mean, again, this is where the conspiracy stuff, it's like,

00:34:10.480 well, now Trump started to gain momentum this week. So then what did they decide? COVID is,

00:34:14.920 you know, because three days ago, we've got a vaccine from Pfizer, 90%. Biden's going to be

00:34:19.840 president. Everyone will be happy. The market is up. Everything is looking good. Yeah.

00:34:24.080 Can I ask you something? Do you consider yourself a journalist? No. Yeah. Me neither. And yet look

00:34:28.180 what we're doing here. Yeah. And I'm constantly left sort of perplexed by that. I am not a journalist.

00:34:33.460 I am not a fact finder on the ground. Yeah. I tell people what I think. I read stories and I try to

00:34:38.640 hand it to people in like a decent, honest way. Yet I think even having this conversation

00:34:44.540 is more journalism. Yeah. At least the definition of journalism that I think people think is

00:34:51.220 journalism. It is more than what journalists are giving us. And that's a really sad state

00:34:56.600 of affairs, but that's where we're at. Yeah. Just because there's at least some kind of

00:35:01.540 curiosity. And all we're saying, again, is that we just want truth. I get people asking me all the

00:35:06.480 time, like, where do you get your information? And the fact of the matter is, is that a lot of times

00:35:11.000 there's not one outlet that I can just read a story from and say, OK, I've got all the details

00:35:15.320 on this. I've got to read the blades. I've got to read the Daily Wire and National Review. And then

00:35:19.780 I not. And they say that, OK, we're on the conservative side. But you've got to read those

00:35:25.080 as a supplement to reading the New York Times and the Washington Post, because it's while they are

00:35:33.140 claiming objectivity, they're just as biased as any right wing or left wing blog.

00:35:38.540 The New York Times literally ran a front page Sunday cover story about how YouTubers,

00:35:44.740 including me with a big picture, were leading people to the alt-right. Everything that I have

00:35:49.580 done on my show publicly and everything that I believe personally has been completely against

00:35:54.040 identity politics. You're the marijuana of the alt-right. You're the gateway drug.

00:35:58.500 I like when people say I'm the gateway drug to waking up to conservatism. I'm OK with that,

00:36:03.180 but not I'm the gateway drug, not I'm the joint that'll lead you to the alt-right,

00:36:07.160 which obviously isn't true. And if I was to play identity politics for myself,

00:36:11.100 there's a million reasons that that wouldn't be true, right?

00:36:13.360 Yeah.

00:36:13.720 But putting that aside, that was a front page cover story that YouTubers, including me and Ben

00:36:18.320 Shapiro and Jordan Peterson and Phil DeFranco and also famous libertarian economist Milton Friedman

00:36:23.300 that were leading people to the alt-right.

00:36:24.980 Oh, yeah. Scary.

00:36:25.280 Now, in the very article itself, at the end of the article, they track this kid watching

00:36:31.340 YouTube. So they sort of frame it like he's a centrist. Then he starts getting into the

00:36:35.420 right. But then guess what? You're not going to believe this, Ali. He's saved by lefty

00:36:38.860 YouTubers. 0.92

00:36:39.380 Of course.

00:36:39.920 And he becomes a good lefty at the end. That's how the article ends. So the very premise of

00:36:43.840 the article, that in effect YouTube leads people to the right, was debunked by the article.

00:36:49.320 Anyway, I mentioned this not to make it about me, but the point is that I know what the New

00:36:53.560 York Times does with cover stories.

00:36:55.540 So if you, and then they also did the enforced monogamy hit piece on Jordan Peterson that 0.50

00:36:59.780 he was trying to get women to be in some sort of handmaid's tale situation, which was the

00:37:03.180 reverse. All he was saying was that enforced monogamy, meaning marriage, is a good thing

00:37:08.700 for societies. It's an organizing principle that allows us to move.

00:37:12.400 Which is objectively true.

00:37:13.620 Of course it's true. Of course it's true that it allows us to move from generation to generation

00:37:17.800 with families and all of those things. But those things are very scary to lefties who

00:37:21.860 want this sort of endless secular craziness. The point is, just because something's on

00:37:28.800 the front page of the New York Times, it doesn't mean it's true. And if anything, it probably

00:37:32.560 means it's not true at this point.

00:37:34.320 Yeah.

00:37:34.640 I wish that wasn't true.

00:37:35.900 But the search for truth is very difficult. And if people, and unfortunately I do think

00:37:51.680 it encourages people to latch on to actual conspiracy theories in some ways, but the media

00:37:57.340 has kind of created that monster. When you feel like you cannot trust the people that you

00:38:02.860 are hearing are the only reputable journalists, the people who are going to bring you truth

00:38:07.160 and reality. And all you're getting is blatant partisanship and a refusal to investigate anything

00:38:14.040 that might go against their narrative, especially when it's coming to things like COVID. When

00:38:18.160 they don't say anything about the mass protests and the riots and the marches and all of that,

00:38:23.620 but they're saying, you know, it's too dangerous for kids to go to school. They need to be in front

00:38:27.080 of a screen for eight hours a day. You know what? You probably can't sing at church,

00:38:30.240 but it's okay if you want to march on Washington for whatever cause. At that point, people not only

00:38:36.040 feel like there's a bias, but that there's an animus towards you. There's an animus towards

00:38:39.660 people who go to church, towards kids who need to be in school and, you know, go to work, whatever

00:38:44.340 it is. And that we're just being run and dictated by a bunch of elites that are totally disconnected

00:38:49.080 from our reality. That creates not just a distrust, but a resentment and a hatred between the two

00:38:54.760 classes. Don't you think?

00:38:55.940 Absolutely. And by the way, doesn't it sort of feel that right where we're at right

00:39:00.140 now with the election sort of hung up and the media going all in and the alternative media

00:39:05.660 trying to fight it? In a weird way, doesn't it feel like this is exactly where we were supposed

00:39:09.420 to be? Like that, that, that the process, the thing that we've all been fighting and talking

00:39:14.280 about and all of these things, like the thing that literally brought you and I together right

00:39:18.460 through this, like, I didn't know you four years ago, but the thing that we were sort of fighting.

00:39:22.200 And then it's like, one day I see this girl, Allie Stuckey, who I don't know who this is,

00:39:24.820 but she's making a lot of sense. And then next thing you know, you're on my show and we have

00:39:28.240 audiences that are awake to these ideas. That whole thing feels like it was all funneled

00:39:32.900 to right now where we are now in between election day and inauguration day and what the hell will

00:39:39.660 happen. And, and again, that feels sort of conspiratorial or whatever, but it just is this

00:39:48.880 game, what Trump was trying to do here. And it's very bizarre. How did this, this crazy haired

00:39:54.820 orange man become the one that was going to like fight this thing? How they'll have to study this

00:40:01.380 for years and years to come. Right. But here we are. And, and that's why I'm not, it's another

00:40:06.820 reason why I'm not crazy. Cause I, I don't feel crazy. I may be crazy, but I don't, but I don't

00:40:11.740 feel crazy. You know what I mean? Cause it's, it just feels like, Oh, well it was supposed to be 10

00:40:16.320 days after the election and we wouldn't know what would happen because look what else has happened

00:40:19.940 over the last, you know, four years, but especially the last year, you know, it's only nine months ago

00:40:25.640 that we used to go out of our houses and go to places like movie theaters. Remember you'd go and

00:40:29.040 there's a big screen and you could sit there and eat popcorn with people. Can't do that anymore.

00:40:32.820 But we're supposed to accept that that's normal. Yeah. And we're just supposed to ignore the fact

00:40:36.340 that there's a real life consequence to things like lockdowns too. And just say, well, actually only

00:40:41.680 death by the virus is the bad death, death by suicide and depression and loneliness. That's all.

00:40:46.400 Which are all spiking as you know. Yes. And death by cancer and all of those things. Cause people

00:40:51.380 aren't getting the proper treatment, but is there any, uh, even beyond the outcome of the election,

00:40:57.060 which you believe could switch? I don't, I don't know. I don't know. I just want, I don't know.

00:41:01.880 I just, I believe there is a chance. Right. And I think we both want the same thing though. We want

00:41:07.320 the integrity of our elections preserved. We think it's good that Trump is fighting this. I really do.

00:41:11.520 I was telling, um, someone the other day that it's kind of like, I felt after the election,

00:41:16.100 as soon as it happened and it looked like the next day, okay, Biden really might win this thing.

00:41:21.120 We don't really know what's, what's going to happen. I felt like it was a breakup with,

00:41:26.140 with Trump being our president. And I was like, at first I was like, okay, you know what? I'm fine.

00:41:30.260 No, I'm fine. No, I wanted, I wanted to be single too. No, it's good. I'm going to be better off

00:41:34.280 without him. And honestly, I didn't really like his tweets and it was annoying. And then as the days

00:41:38.260 went on, I was like, you know what? I'm really sad. And I'm kind of mad about how this happened.

00:41:43.080 And his tweets weren't really that bad. Actually, I'm going to kind of miss his tweets. I kind of

00:41:46.840 am glad that he was fighting for on the culture wars. And so it's kind of ended like that. At

00:41:51.540 first I was like, oh, you know, it's fine. And now like, no, I really do want to fight back.

00:41:55.140 And it's going to be hard not to have a fighter in the white house.

00:41:57.620 Yeah. That's really funny because, you know, I said to you before that I obviously voted for Trump,

00:42:01.560 but for the first month or two, when I started, I didn't, I had never said I was voting for Trump

00:42:05.520 until July 31st was the first time on, on Kyle Kashuv's podcast that I hinted it. Cause he asked

00:42:11.820 me directly and I, and I was going to be honest. And then I went off the grid for August as, you

00:42:15.400 know, I disappear for a month and I have no social media, no other thing. And then when I came back,

00:42:18.980 I was being more forthright about it. And then obviously in the last few weeks I went all in,

00:42:23.520 I was like, this is what I believe. And I'm fighting the same monster that he's fighting and he's an

00:42:27.900 imperfect character. But one of the things that I stopped doing in say the last two weeks before the

00:42:33.840 election was making the excuses as to why I was doing it, because we can all say the stuff about

00:42:39.460 Twitter and the rest of it, but it's what you just said. It's like in a weird way, he did the

00:42:43.640 thing that no one thought could happen. He beat the entire system, did it once, he might do it again.

00:42:49.320 And it's like, he's not perfect. So it's not that you can't criticize him. Of course you can,

00:42:55.060 you know what I mean? And when I see him in little fights with, with actors on Twitter, it's like,

00:42:59.120 dude, you gotta let that stuff go. You gotta, but at the same time, it's hard to criticize the guy

00:43:06.680 who did everything that no one said could happen. And I think, so I went in when I vote, when I

00:43:11.980 pressed that touchscreen and it was for Donald J. Trump and Michael R. Pence, like I was happy to

00:43:18.080 do it. It was the most validating or fulfilling that it's ever felt for me to vote for a president.

00:43:25.320 Yeah. And you know, whether, whether that ultimately works or not, or whether I'm put

00:43:30.200 on a list, I like, I'm on the list already. Right. I'm on AOC's list. So what am I going

00:43:34.080 to do? I know we're all kind of joking about that, but it is serious. It's like, okay, we're

00:43:39.460 on the list. Hopefully we're like in the same camp together. Well, that's the thing. It's

00:43:42.600 like, I like all the people on the list. So it's like, if I'm going to be on a list, like

00:43:46.100 we'll be at a camp together. You know, even it'll be terrible. We'll be happier. We would

00:43:50.120 still be happier. Yeah. Yeah. Um, okay. Beyond the outcome of the election, whether or not

00:43:55.260 it changes, do you have encouragement for people who just think, okay, America is going

00:43:58.760 to hell in a handbasket. You've got one side who's talking about protecting democratic norms

00:44:02.580 while tearing them down and who are putting us on lists. And it looks like we're going

00:44:06.960 into leftist totalitarianism, whether or not Trump wins, you've got corporate America,

00:44:11.340 you've got big tech that seemed to be so against conservatism morally and ideologically. Do

00:44:17.200 you see the potential for a, for tie, for the tide turning for people not putting up with

00:44:22.400 that totalitarianism and how do we push back against it when there's so much on the line

00:44:27.020 for some people? So it's a great question because I don't think that people like us

00:44:30.520 could do what we do if we did not think things could get better. How, how could you talk every

00:44:35.560 day for a living and tell people what you think and pay attention to the news if you were sort 0.93

00:44:39.440 of, this is what they call black pilled. If you just in effect thought that everything

00:44:42.480 was just going to get worse, no matter what, like you could, you know, red pilled, you

00:44:46.520 could see the truth. I didn't know that phrase. That's funny. Oh yeah. So, well,

00:44:49.180 red pilled is sort of like, you can see through the madness of course, and blue pilled is you

00:44:52.520 just accept it. And then black pilled is, oh, it's sort of like the, the depressing version

00:44:56.800 of red pilled. It's like you saw it, but then you also realize that we're just in this like

00:45:00.640 endless death spiral now. We lucked out on those colors, by the way. The right lucked out on the

00:45:05.340 colors that were assigned to that. Oh yeah, yeah, yeah. In that regard. Yeah. Um, so I would say I'm a

00:45:10.020 world weary optimist. I couldn't do this if I didn't think we could change things. I know we can change

00:45:15.340 things. I meet people all the time who say to me some sort of Dave, you were my gateway to this

00:45:20.300 stuff. And so I know that personally you can do things. Yeah. Um, I was also on tour with Jordan

00:45:25.880 Peterson for a year and I saw this mild mannered psychologist literally save the lives of thousands

00:45:32.920 of people and get them off drugs and repair families and all of these things. So a, I think

00:45:37.680 at the personal level, you can absolutely. You've seen people change. I've seen people change their

00:45:41.240 minds too. I get those messages all the time as I'm sure you do. Yeah. I hated you. I hated what

00:45:45.940 you said. I was ardently pro-choice. My friend made me keep listening to you. And now I've started

00:45:51.280 to listen to, you know, Dave Rubin, whoever, and I've changed my mind. So I always tell people that

00:45:55.220 to encourage them. People change. People change. And by the way, the people that'll be like, oh,

00:46:00.140 well you flip flop. You flip flop. Well, it's like, okay, should I believe all the stuff I believed

00:46:05.120 when I was 15? Would that be the way to do this? Should I believe all, I'm 44. Should I believe all

00:46:09.280 the stuff I believed when I was 30? And that I should have just figured it out at 30 and, you

00:46:13.480 know, and boom, that's it. You're done. And if you think anything else differently, you're a flip

00:46:17.440 flopper or you're a sellout or a grifter or, you know, some other nonsensical thing. Um, I think the 0.96

00:46:22.600 way we get out of this, I do see one societal way we get out of this, which is sort of why I, at this

00:46:28.240 point, really want Trump to, to beat this thing is that if he wins, meaning it's actually proven that

00:46:33.540 there was fraud. And at that point, then it's like, it's like, whoa, all of the nonsense, the media

00:46:40.800 will have gone so all in on, there was no fraud, but then we'll have the evidence of the fraud that

00:46:46.240 they are so deep in this. And then I think a lot of things will start getting uncovered that the way

00:46:50.820 they use COVID statistics to keep us in lockdowns. And, and I think a second term of Trump could cause

00:46:57.640 the, the crack that really needs to happen. In other words, Trump's first term was sort of like

00:47:02.600 an initial break through the ice or something. But I think a second term could actually break those

00:47:08.080 things. And then, you know, what could happen? We would get critical race theory officially out of

00:47:12.000 all the federal institutions. We would get title nine gone altogether. Biden just announced, I saw

00:47:17.540 it literally a minute before we sat down, he's going to bring title nine back. So we're going to

00:47:20.940 literally bring back having no due process, which is what title nine was about at the college level.

00:47:26.840 That's for a whole other show. Yeah. Which disproportionately affects guys, by the way,

00:47:30.780 but in the world of intersectionality, you know, men are more privileged. So it's okay.

00:47:35.760 Right, right, right. That guy, the accusation is enough just to destroy his life and kick him out

00:47:39.700 of school and everything else. But, but in effect, a second Trump term would be the destruction,

00:47:45.820 the abject destruction of all of this thing. Now, would it be perfect? No, because we still have big

00:47:50.460 tech issues and it's like, we could all be silenced tomorrow and there's all sorts of stuff. And

00:47:54.620 it's like, here we are at the blaze studios, which has built an incredible digital world.

00:47:59.980 But there are still pipes that are owned by other people. Like there's a million fights on the,

00:48:03.560 on the forefront. That's actually what I'm going to be writing about in my next book. Like there

00:48:06.460 are still fights to come, but the way, the way out, I don't see how we get out in the short term

00:48:13.080 without a Trump win. A Biden win, a Biden win is basically the old world trying to hold on one

00:48:19.140 more time, but it lost already. You know what I mean? Too many of us are awake. Trump got 10 million

00:48:25.420 more votes at least than he did last time. So this was not a repudiation of Trump. You know what I

00:48:31.180 mean? Right. So enough people have woke up. We have, we have huge fights to fight. Again, not,

00:48:38.040 not my whole life doesn't revolve around politics. So I think we'll be okay either way. And I think

00:48:42.400 that's the real answer that any of your audience that, you know, it's like you want to fight for the

00:48:47.020 things you believe in. So that society is, um, is congruent with what you believe, but like at the

00:48:53.120 same time, it's probably more important that you care about your family and your friends and all of

00:48:57.260 those things. And you fight back where you can right now, there's nothing a voter can necessarily do.

00:49:03.200 I mean, you might be able to call your Congress person or, uh, to, to make sure that, you know,

00:49:09.220 that, uh, they are also pushing for investigations and litigation and all of that, but you've done your

00:49:15.220 due diligence in voting and all you can do is kind of hope and pray when it comes to what's

00:49:21.360 happening federally. But in your own life, there are fights that you can do. And it's not necessarily

00:49:26.260 political fighting for your family, fighting, uh, for curriculum that's not based on the 1619 project

00:49:32.780 in critical race theory, but is based on historical truth, uh, fighting for your children when it comes

00:49:39.880 to things like, and I don't know if we agree on this or not, but the reaches of the equality act

00:49:45.640 and sharing and sharing spaces with girls and boys, there are fights that you can fight that affect

00:49:50.900 your family directly. That doesn't necessarily have to do with Donald Trump and what's happening in

00:49:56.480 Washington DC, but it's happening in your everyday life. There's a book that Roger wrote. It's called

00:50:01.260 live not by lies, resisting pre-totalitarian lies that always come before, uh, communism. And that's

00:50:09.020 what you can do in your own life. You can refuse to live by lies, the redefinition of words, the

00:50:13.960 redefinition of things like justice and right and wrong. That's what you can do to fight back. And as

00:50:18.680 long as you are doing that, then you are doing everything that you can do. And like you said,

00:50:23.800 refuse to make politics, every part of your life, love your neighbors, love your friends who disagree

00:50:28.660 with you, love your family, train your kids up in what is right. That's really the most powerful

00:50:33.860 thing that you can do. Raise a generation of critical thinkers. So there is, there is definitely

00:50:39.660 hope, um, whether or not the outcome of the election changes for the reasons that you listed.

00:50:44.320 I, I certainly hope, uh, hope that it does, but we'll see.

00:50:48.640 I suspect that we're going to be okay either way because either we will, either we'll be living in

00:50:53.520 a free capitalist, uh, representative society, or we'll be in the same gulag as we said, which will be

00:50:59.340 great. Oh, the left hates that we're joking about that. I've seen a lot of people say that online.

00:51:03.840 Why do they have this fantasy? It's not us who has the fantasy, right? You guys do. You talk about

00:51:09.940 re-education, whether you realize it or not. Okay. Where can everyone find you, follow you, all that

00:51:14.240 good stuff. My branding guy is good. It's RubenReport.com and YouTube.com slash RubenReport. And

00:51:19.620 you're on Twitter. I'm on Twitter. Nobody's perfect, you know? Yeah, I know. Instagram RubenReport and

00:51:25.760 all that good stuff. Yes. Yes. And you're on Fox News all the time too. If people are watching

00:51:30.820 that, you really are everywhere. You're a very, very busy person. I get up at 4 a.m. Pacific time

00:51:36.060 to do those morning hits. I'm literally in my underwear sometimes. This is little insider

00:51:40.780 television stuff. I'm in my underwear. I often haven't showered. I can just get my hair to be,

00:51:45.520 look okay enough for television. And then I go right back to sleep. So I literally wake up. They're

00:51:49.940 like, what do you think about this? I'm like, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And I go back to sleep.

00:51:52.460 Yeah. And you're like, I've been up for hours. I feel good. Yeah. That's great.

00:51:55.680 Well, thank you so much for taking the time to talk to me. I know that everyone's going to love

00:51:59.060 this conversation. And let's hope for the best.

Relatable with Allie Beth Stuckey - November 13, 2020

Ep 326 ｜ From Woke to Awake ｜ Guest： Dave Rubin

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