Relatable with Allie Beth Stuckey - September 06, 2018


Ep 35 ｜ The Paradox of Likability Within Christianity


Episode Stats

Length

33 minutes

Words per Minute

183.28438

Word Count

6,095

Sentence Count

411

Misogynist Sentences

10

Hate Speech Sentences

20


Summary

In this episode of Relatable, Allie Stuckey talks about the concept of "likability" and how it's used by some Christian teachers, including Carl Lentz, Jen Hatmaker, Stephen Furnick, Rachel Hollis, and Glennon Doyle.


Transcript

00:00:00.000 What's up, guys? Welcome to episode 35 of CRTV's Relatable. Thanks for being here. Y'all are the
00:00:07.120 best. My name is Allie Stuckey. I'm your host. As you know, you can listen here or anywhere you get
00:00:13.640 your podcasts. You can also watch me on CRTV.com where you can subscribe with the promo code
00:00:20.040 Allie20. Okay. So Tuesday, we talked about the paradox of likability as it pertains to politics.
00:00:27.700 Uh, today we are going to talk about it as it relates to Christianity. And it's really going
00:00:33.240 to be kind of brief because I've talked about this before, but I've gotten questions specifically on
00:00:38.920 this topic. So I at least wanted to address it. And what I want to address is how likability is
00:00:45.120 used by some teachers to preach what I and others refer to as the gospel of self-fulfillment.
00:00:51.960 So like I said, I've gotten a lot of questions from you guys about what I think about certain
00:00:59.220 teachers like Jen Hatmaker, Stephen Furnick, Rachel Hollis, Glennon Doyle. These are just a few of the
00:01:05.120 people Carl Lentz can probably be added in. And first, I don't necessarily want to say that all
00:01:11.100 of these people are the exact same because I don't think that they are. Jen Hatmaker is known for
00:01:16.620 unbiblical beliefs. Just follow her social media pages. She believes, for example, that gay marriage
00:01:22.060 is the exact same and that it's just as biblical as marriage between a man and a woman. She is a
00:01:27.640 major advocate of social justice of all kinds. That's not necessarily unbiblical. Depends on what you're
00:01:34.000 actually advocating for. But in her case, she advocates for lots of things that aren't necessarily
00:01:39.440 in line with Christ's teachings. Stephen Furnick is the pastor of a mega church in Charlotte called
00:01:46.420 Elevation. He is an author as well, and he is known to say some very questionable things about God for
00:01:52.340 the pulpit. When asked, John MacArthur, whom we all love here, gave a one-word answer about what he
00:02:00.080 thinks about him, and it was unqualified. He recently said in a sermon that Jesus cannot overcome your
00:02:06.960 unbelief. That's not taken out of context. That is not putting words in his mouth. That is blasphemy.
00:02:13.080 Jesus can do whatever the heck he wants with your belief or unbelief. He is God. He authored your faith.
00:02:19.080 He, Stephen Furnick, is a prosperity teacher. He says things like, you know, if you want to change
00:02:23.920 your heart, change your habits. That might be true for a motivational speaker to say, but he is a pastor.
00:02:30.380 He's a biblical teacher. He's supposed to be exegetical. Jesus changes your heart,
00:02:35.800 which changes your habits. Not the other way around. Rachel Hollis is a blogger, and she recently
00:02:42.360 wrote a book called Girl, Wash Her Face, and I'll get more to that in a second, maybe. And Glennon
00:02:48.400 Doyle, she is definitely the one out of all of these people that I have the most problems with.
00:02:56.800 She was a Christian author and blogger. Now, she still considers herself that, but she was a Christian
00:03:02.680 author and blogger when she was married to her husband. She wrote about marriage and motherhood.
00:03:08.420 She had a really well-selling book about marriage, about living a Christian life, about being faithful.
00:03:13.960 Then while she was married, she fell in love with a woman. Her name is Abby Wambach of soccer fame.
00:03:19.720 She left her husband for Abby, with whom her husband, with whom she has three kids, and she married Abby
00:03:26.180 Wambach. She is still a, quote, Christian teacher. She still writes books about Christianity. She is
00:03:31.680 all about her some intersectionality and social justice and feminism. She, of course, is endorsed
00:03:37.180 by Oprah, by Reese Witherspoon. She is exactly the type and really the only type of Christian that is
00:03:43.820 acceptable to Hollywood and the mainstream because she gets to claim Jesus but doesn't actually believe
00:03:49.660 any of the culturally inconvenient stuff that the Bible and Jesus actually teaches. She just endorses
00:03:56.020 everything the secular world. She is an active participant in it and gets to claim a sense of
00:04:03.460 righteousness because she is a Christian. And Carl Lentz, we know he routinely compromises biblical
00:04:10.780 truth for culturally popular stances. So all of these people are different. I'm not saying that
00:04:16.820 they're on the same level. I am not making any pronouncements about anyone's ultimate salvation
00:04:22.280 here. That's not up to me. I'm really not one to announce people a heretic either. But all four of the
00:04:29.340 main people that I listed, I guess, in addition to Carl Lentz, they have two things in common. One, they are
00:04:35.600 insanely likable. And two, they use their likability to preach the gospel of self-fulfillment. On Tuesday, we
00:04:43.540 talked about how likability is really a double-edged sword. It gives you the power to win people over to good
00:04:49.360 causes, but it also gives you the power to win people over to bad causes and bad ideas. It gives you the power
00:04:55.340 to compel, but it also gives you the power to manipulate. I believe that the people that I have listed
00:05:01.580 likely have a lot of good intentions and some, if not most of what they say is true. But I just worry that their
00:05:08.940 likability is allowing people to believe in a gospel that is not the true biblical gospel of Jesus's death and
00:05:14.780 resurrection, but rather is a gospel of self-fulfillment that says your ultimate goal in life, the chief
00:05:21.140 purpose that God has for you on this earth is that you become successful, that you chase and accomplish
00:05:26.500 your dreams, that you become everything that you want to be in life. That is the bold life that God has
00:05:32.740 in store for you, they say. And if you just believe in yourself, and if you just let go of fear, then maybe
00:05:39.720 you can get there. And maybe some of you are listening and thinking, well, where's the lie?
00:05:47.100 Isn't that what God wants for us? The simple answer is no. And the more complicated answer is
00:05:54.740 not necessarily. The gospel is that Jesus laid down everything and died on a cross for our sins so
00:06:01.800 that our sins could be forgiven and we could live forever with him. The purpose in life is to share
00:06:07.940 that gospel with our words and deeds, to glorify God because of who he is and what he's done for us.
00:06:13.420 That might include becoming successful. That might include being an entrepreneur. That might mean
00:06:19.140 that your dreams of being famous, of making a lot of money come true. And that's all great.
00:06:24.100 It might mean those things, but it also might not. And even if you never reach your career goals,
00:06:31.380 even if you never go on all of the adventures that you've planned in your life,
00:06:35.420 your purpose and your worth as a Christian does not change because your purpose is to deny yourself,
00:06:41.600 to take up your cross and to follow Christ. And your worth is dependent on Jesus. That's it.
00:06:46.820 Neither of these things require or guarantee monetary or earthly success of any kind.
00:06:53.180 There's this lie that I've heard perpetuated by all of the people that I listed in their books,
00:06:58.740 speeches, and sermons, which I haven't read all of, by the way, so I'm not trying to make a judgment
00:07:02.680 about their entire life. But it's this idea that your goal in life is to be happy, to be confident,
00:07:08.940 to do all of the things that you want to do in life without fear or doubt. I'm sorry, but that's
00:07:14.980 not why Jesus came to die. He did not come to die so that we could be happy. He didn't come to die so
00:07:21.520 that we could just feel comfortable in our skin. He didn't come to die so that we could chase after
00:07:25.840 our dreams. He came to die so that we could die to ourself and that we could live for him and with
00:07:31.260 him forever in glory. And like I said, that might include all kinds of earthly treasure and success.
00:07:38.240 And I think it's okay to hope that it does. No one wants to have a miserable life filled with,
00:07:44.420 you know, tribulations, going around crying in your sackcloth and ashes. I'm not saying that's what
00:07:50.140 we should pursue, but I am saying that our goal, our focus, our motivation, the thing that wakes us up
00:07:57.060 in the morning, the thing that inspires us to read our Bibles, to pray, to be close to God should not
00:08:03.560 be what he can give us or what milestones he can help us reach, but rather this, this simple joy of
00:08:10.300 knowing and obeying and loving the one who saved us. And look, I'm going to be really real. Um, I like
00:08:19.500 the gospel of self-fulfillment. I do. It makes me feel good. I am naturally attracted to it. Uh,
00:08:26.040 I'm an ambitious person. I've always been encouraged by people, by my parents to dream
00:08:30.880 big. And I do, I have a lot of goals. I want to chase those goals. I like, I like to believe
00:08:37.060 that God's main goal for my life is to fulfill my own dreams. Um, I like to believe that God is a
00:08:43.880 capitalist. I like to believe that God is just along for the right of my life and that he is going to
00:08:50.160 bless me along the way and to give me his favor, but that's not how this works. He planned my life.
00:08:56.680 He mapped it out. He chose me not to serve myself, but to serve him. And all I am called to do is to
00:09:03.600 obey whatever that might look like. But in my flesh, in my sinfulness, I don't like the idea that that
00:09:11.880 plan might not include what I want to do. I don't like the idea that bringing him glory might not bring
00:09:17.960 glory to myself. So I understand where this gospel of self-fulfillment comes from. It is a way to
00:09:24.700 bless our selfishness. It is a way to shroud selfish ambition with righteousness. And worse
00:09:30.880 than that, it doesn't save us. We are not saved by or for the gospel of self-fulfillment. And
00:09:39.940 therefore it's not the story that we need to be telling other people that God is going to bless you.
00:09:45.660 If you pray hard enough, be confident enough and be nice enough that you're going to be everything
00:09:50.280 that you've ever wanted to be. That is not what the Bible tells us. The Bible tells us that as
00:09:56.060 Christians, we are going to suffer, that we are going to be persecuted, that we are going to be
00:10:01.080 seen as stupid, that we're going to be depicted as people who are weak. The Bible says that life sold
00:10:07.760 out to Christ is going to be hard at some point, that it's going to be uncomfortable, that it's going to
00:10:12.360 be really inconvenient, that we're not going to always get everything that we want, that sometimes
00:10:17.660 we might be cheated, we might be beaten, we might be pushed back or set back. God doesn't promise to
00:10:23.620 save us from these things, actually, but he does promise that it's going to be worth it. The Bible
00:10:29.300 says that for the joy set before him, Jesus endured the cross. That's the Christian life too. For the joy
00:10:35.420 that's in heaven, we endure hardship and even crucifixion in this life. Fulfillment, Christian
00:10:42.180 fulfillment is found in losing yourself, not finding yourself, as these pseudo-Christian teachers would
00:10:48.820 have us believe. All the things these people promise you, happiness, confidence, fearlessness,
00:10:54.820 security, boldness, courage, they can all be found in so much fuller and more satisfying,
00:11:01.180 more lasting, eternal ways in Christ. The gospel of self-fulfillment is popular because
00:11:08.200 it deprioritizes all the not-is-fun stuff about Christianity. All the stuff that makes being a
00:11:14.400 Christian really hard, like sharing the gospel and claiming Jesus is the only way to heaven,
00:11:19.960 as the Bible says. Like standing up for biblical truth in a world that tells you that the Bible is
00:11:25.060 bigoted. Like disagreeing with people's lifestyle, even though you like them as people.
00:11:29.660 Like denying yourself. And I think the hardest part about it is that it's being pushed by people
00:11:37.000 who are very likable. People who use their charisma and relatability to convey a message that is not
00:11:44.320 the gospel and is not biblical. They tickle our ears, as the Bible says. They maybe unintentionally,
00:11:51.240 maybe not deliberately at all, make us feel okay about our sin because, hey, God's priority is that we
00:11:58.080 feel good, that we're comfortable, that we're confident. They de-emphasize holiness, sanctification,
00:12:04.300 righteousness, sacrifice. And who doesn't want that? What sinful human doesn't want to be able to
00:12:10.260 get the benefits of Christianity going to heaven without doing the hard stuff? This is trendy
00:12:16.400 Christianity pushed by trendy people who think that Christianity needs their help and making it
00:12:23.500 more attractive and relevant. And I think what makes them attractive as well is that not everything
00:12:31.780 they say is a lie. And really, Rachel Hollis, I've only read some of her book. And so I don't know
00:12:39.520 enough about her to say that she is a false teacher or something. But I think she does kind of fit into
00:12:45.200 this self-help category that I think can be dangerous for Christian teachers to enter into.
00:12:51.580 But most of these people, they start out with the truth. They start out with making you feel good.
00:12:57.500 And then they just slip the line that God is okay with your sin, that God is okay with your selfishness
00:13:03.160 because he just wants you to be happy. The downside to likability is that some of our most likable
00:13:10.080 Christian teachers spread a message that is not true and at the very least manipulates the gospel
00:13:15.560 in a way that takes our eyes off of Christ and onto ourselves. That is what this new hipster social
00:13:25.740 justice, social media Jesus is attempting to do. It's an attempt to try to make Christianity more of
00:13:32.800 what they might say is a big tent to attract more people, to make the cross of Christ more attractive.
00:13:39.140 Uh, the cross of Christ doesn't actually need our help in being more attractive. Um,
00:13:47.080 the cross of Christ has been sufficient in saving people for thousands of years. And just because
00:13:51.880 it's 2018 and all of a sudden for the first time, maybe ever it's inconvenient and uncomfortable and
00:13:57.760 unpopular to be a Christian in America, uh, doesn't mean that we need to be compromising the truth in
00:14:03.860 order to fit in the church. I heard Matt Chandler say this once, uh, the church thrives on the margins
00:14:09.840 of society. It always has when the true church and true Christians really grow and really do the work
00:14:16.160 that matters for eternity. It's when we are pushed to the margins, when we are persecuted, when we are
00:14:22.920 pressed. And so we don't need to resist that. Christianity might go out of the mainstream more
00:14:28.780 and more as our lifetime goes on. Um, and that's okay. That is not a free pass to try to make it
00:14:34.960 culturally relevant or culturally convenient. I think all the more we need to stand firm in truth.
00:14:40.440 And that's why I worry about these false teachers that kind of have silver tongues, as people would
00:14:46.760 say, that make us think that Christianity is supposed to, uh, be happy, go lucky all the time.
00:14:51.960 I think that Jesus's life can probably tell us that that's not true. So I just wanted to kind of
00:14:57.260 quickly say that I, I know that, uh, some of these teachers are people that you guys probably like.
00:15:02.680 And again, I'm not condemning every single thing that they say. I don't think you are a bad person,
00:15:07.580 uh, for liking a lot of what they say, but I would say be discerning, take what they say with a grain
00:15:12.860 of salt, because even though it might sound like a good motivational speech, you should be asking
00:15:17.740 yourself since they purport to be a deliverers of the gospel and Christian teachers. If what they
00:15:23.340 are teaching is truly biblical. Um, okay, so that's it, but I wanted to spend the rest of the time
00:15:30.540 answering the questions that you guys have sent me. They're on my phone, so I need to pull them up.
00:15:38.000 Um, you guys have been sending me a lot of questions over the past few days and I really
00:15:42.020 appreciate that. Um, okay. This is from someone on Instagram. Um, Hey Allie, I was wondering if I
00:15:50.720 could get your thoughts on something. I tried out a Christian worship service on campus called
00:15:54.900 Crew tonight and things were going pretty well until it was the time for the sermon. The message was
00:15:59.620 great, but what confused me was that a woman delivered it. Am I just confused about the authority
00:16:05.440 a woman can actually have in church? I've listened to your podcast and read the Bible though,
00:16:09.620 and I think it's pretty clear or is it different because it's a campus ministry? This was a group
00:16:14.040 of college age men and women by the way. So there's probably going to be a few different opinions on
00:16:19.960 that. Um, so I would be curious to know, huh, that's a little bit difficult. So the Bible says that
00:16:28.040 women within the church are permitted to teach children and other women. They are not permitted to
00:16:34.040 teach over a man. Now the lines traditionally have been blurred. Uh, what does that mean? Is a
00:16:39.480 woman able to go on stage during church and kind of give any kind of word of inspiration? Is she able
00:16:45.720 to read the Bible? Is she able to say a blurb or does it just mean a full sermon? And does it really
00:16:52.240 just mean within the four walls of the church or does that include, you know, Christian conferences
00:16:58.000 like passion or in your case, uh, you know, campus ministries. And I do think it's complicated.
00:17:05.840 However, I think the Bible's implications are pretty clear that it's within any context of, uh,
00:17:13.760 Christian teaching that a woman should not be exercising any kind of authority over a man.
00:17:20.540 Now that obviously doesn't, uh, bleed into, uh, secular roles. I don't think that women can't be
00:17:27.280 leaders, Congress people, even the president one day, CEOs of fortune 500 companies, whatever it is.
00:17:33.640 But the Bible is clear that within the context of, uh, teaching from God's word, a woman is not to
00:17:39.260 exercise authority over a man. So I mean, maybe crew in this case has good intentions, but no,
00:17:45.540 I don't think it's correct that a woman should, uh, be teaching men unless those men are, you know,
00:17:52.980 underage boys that would consider them, I guess, uh, that would qualify them as kids. So I would talk
00:17:59.660 to someone about it. I don't think that means you necessarily need to denounce this group as
00:18:03.560 a bunch of heretics, blasphemers, and false teachers. They might have a lot of good things
00:18:08.160 to offer, but I would talk to someone about it just to see what their interpretation of it is.
00:18:12.600 Maybe they say, huh, you know, I hadn't really thought about it this way. We try to give everyone
00:18:16.920 an equal opportunity to talk, but I'm going to, you know, pray and seek counsel about this.
00:18:21.580 Or if their response is, you know, that part of the Bible just really doesn't matter to us,
00:18:25.400 then that should give you a pretty good indication of how much they respect God's word.
00:18:29.000 Um, but don't write them off. Try to have an actual conversation with them. Try to,
00:18:33.640 you know, be empathetic towards their position and, uh, to seek other counsel as well. But I
00:18:39.640 think you're right. The Bible is pretty clear about, uh, whether or not women are to exercise
00:18:45.280 authority over a man in the context of church. Um, okay. Can you talk about what it's like to be
00:18:55.060 on FNC and HLN, FNC being Fox news. Um, and especially your first few times getting hair
00:19:02.660 and makeup done and being on air. I'm just so impressed with your career. Well, thank you so
00:19:07.060 much. Uh, so being on Fox and on HLN, I've been on MSNBC, other networks as well. Um, it's nerve
00:19:14.540 wracking. I still get nervous every time. There are some people who say that they don't get nervous,
00:19:18.540 uh, before they get on camera. I get nervous before I do anything. I don't really get nervous,
00:19:22.760 I guess, before my podcast, but I get nervous, uh, when I'm going to speak, I get nervous when
00:19:28.700 I'm going to be on TV. Whenever I have to be speaking publicly, I get nervous, even though
00:19:33.460 it's something I like to do. And I think that I'm, I'm gifted in, I do get nervous. Um, I practice a
00:19:40.900 lot before each TV hit. Usually it kind of depends on the importance of it and what the topic is, but
00:19:46.980 I research a lot, especially if I'm talking about something like the midterm election, something more
00:19:51.200 political and detailed like that. I try to memorize as many facts about it as possible.
00:19:57.700 Some people are just good at kind of being on the fly and just making stuff up as they go.
00:20:02.780 I'm not really quite as good at that in the kind, in those kinds of situations where I am sitting in
00:20:10.660 front of a camera and I know I'm live on national television. So I spend a good amount of time really
00:20:15.660 preparing for those hits, researching, then writing out my talking points. And to the best of my
00:20:21.240 ability, I try to memorize my talking points. Uh, that doesn't always happen. Sometimes I end up
00:20:27.720 saying something differently. Um, but especially if it's a subject that I'm not super familiar with,
00:20:33.320 then I try to really memorize everything that I say. Uh, also in regards to getting hair and makeup
00:20:39.920 done, I don't like getting my hair and makeup done. I know there are a lot of people out there that
00:20:43.900 are really good at hair and makeup. Um, but I just don't like it. I'm really particular about my
00:20:49.700 makeup. Really, really particular. And I have this fear, this just panic, panicking fear that I am
00:20:58.380 going to go get my makeup done by someone. So I don't have any makeup on. And then it's going to be
00:21:03.360 like two minutes before I'm supposed to go on air. And I look in the mirror and I look horrible. I look
00:21:07.780 like a totally different person. I just don't trust that. I just don't trust it. So I do my own hair and
00:21:13.760 makeup. And if I need touch-ups, they give it to me. Uh, but I, you know, I don't like it. I don't
00:21:19.380 like it. I trust people, I guess, more with my hair than my makeup because I feel like it's harder to
00:21:24.540 mess up. Maybe it's also because I'm a little bit of a control freak, but yeah, I like to handle my
00:21:29.700 own appearance. And now I actually do my news hits from home, which has been really nice because the
00:21:35.480 bureau here where you go to actually do your hits is a ways away. Uh, so I do all of my hits from home.
00:21:40.720 And then of course I have to do my hair and makeup here, but it's totally worth it. It saves me
00:21:45.260 a lot of time to be able to be from here, but yeah, it's really fun. If you ever get the opportunity
00:21:50.440 to be on Fox or to be on any other network, uh, then definitely take it. One piece of advice that
00:21:56.900 I would give you is one, don't underestimate how much you need to prepare and actually memorize.
00:22:01.460 Cause when you get in the moment, you think that you're going to be able to wing it. If you get
00:22:04.500 nervous like I do, sometimes you end up just babbling. Um, something that I try to work on
00:22:11.160 on air, obviously I don't accomplish that on this podcast, but something I try to work on on air is
00:22:16.320 answering in pretty short bursts. Doesn't always happen. Sometimes you have a lot to say. Um, but
00:22:22.440 on TV, I try to talk in pretty short bursts and always look at the camera. I've noticed lately,
00:22:27.720 a lot of young people have a hard time looking straight into the camera. Uh, they kind of look off
00:22:32.300 the whole time. That's super awkward. Don't do that. Look at the camera as much as you can. Don't
00:22:36.900 like look down, especially don't look to the side. Um, but that's it. Yeah. It's a really fun
00:22:42.580 experience to be on TV. It's not my favorite thing that I do. It's not the best thing that I do. I'm
00:22:47.880 not the best at that out of all the things I do, but, um, it is really fun. The first time I was ever
00:22:52.860 on TV was last, not this past April, but the one before, and it was Fox and Fringe the first time I was
00:22:59.860 ever on TV. And now it's been a little over a year and, uh, I still get nervous, but hopefully
00:23:04.340 I've gotten a lot better at it. And I am a lot more confident at my ability to make something up
00:23:10.400 if I need to, because that definitely happens. Um, someone said, if you could be a grape or an apple,
00:23:16.660 which would you be? And why a grape or an apple? Well, I have zero desire to be an inanimate object,
00:23:24.660 but I guess if I had to choose, uh, maybe a grape because I feel like they have a really good life
00:23:38.060 until they're made into wine or something like that. I would like to be a grape that's made into
00:23:42.940 wine because they're in pretty cool parts of the world. Like I would like to be in France or California
00:23:51.060 or somewhere like that. Apples. I don't know. I feel like they just, their life is kind of boring,
00:23:55.860 but a grape, maybe you get the chance to live in an exotic place. So I would say a grape. Um,
00:24:02.780 who is your favorite Democrat personality to be on TV with? Oh gosh. I don't know. There's a,
00:24:09.000 there's a lot of good people on television. Um, I really like, like, for example, I like Michael
00:24:15.300 star Hopkins. He's a Democrat that I just think is a really smart and very sweet person, even though
00:24:21.200 we really disagree. Like he was kind of aggressive the other day on television, but then he ended up
00:24:27.900 messaging me and apologizing after, which just means that he's a good person. And I would do the same
00:24:33.240 thing. Uh, Ben Kissel is also a Democrat that, uh, he's, he's just funny and we're actually paired
00:24:41.560 together on air quite often. Haven't been in a while, but we just have kind of a good dynamic.
00:24:45.920 Like he's funny and sarcastic. And so I think that probably works well. I haven't been on,
00:24:52.880 I don't think with Jessica Tarlov, I don't think that I've been on with her, but I also like her.
00:24:58.180 I think that she has a really good perspective on things. Um, yeah, there's one other person.
00:25:04.320 I think his name is Robin, that he was a nice guy, but I can tell you the worst Democrat to be on
00:25:10.640 with. She's actually basically a socialist. Her name is, I actually don't even know how to say
00:25:15.100 her last name. Anna Casparina, Casparina. She's of the young Turks. Uh, she is quoted saying that
00:25:21.560 she just admitted that she just thinks that she's better than everyone who doesn't think the same way
00:25:27.560 politically. At least she owns that. She is condescending. She is mean. She goes after you
00:25:34.380 personally, when you're on air there, there's nothing worse than that. There's nothing worse than having
00:25:40.360 a legitimate conversation with someone that you think is going to be legitimate on the other side
00:25:44.760 of the aisle on air. And then they try to come after you and your character and your integrity
00:25:49.700 just for stating an opinion. She is one of those people. Actually, I think everyone at the young
00:25:55.120 Turks, they're kind of currently on a little kick of being obsessed with me. It's fine. Um,
00:26:00.400 I just think that they're the worst of the worst. They're the worst of the worst. They're so
00:26:04.980 mean they go after people's, uh, just person. And I think that that's wrong. So least for favorite
00:26:13.180 Democrats to be on air with would be her. And there's a couple other people that I'm on with,
00:26:18.240 uh, on HLN that are just race baiters that only think that everything is racist. I had this debate
00:26:24.880 one time about, um, about whether or not we're celebrating the 4th of July, the two Democrats I
00:26:31.100 was on with, um, they said that, no, they wouldn't because Trump is so awful. They're not feeling
00:26:36.300 patriotic. This one guy said 4th of July is racist. I hate conversations like that because there's just
00:26:41.860 no, there's no good way for a white girl like me to come out on top. Um, okay. If you could have
00:26:50.820 dinner with Jesus and one other person past, present or future, who would you ask to join you
00:26:58.540 and Jesus and why? Ooh, um, I know this is so like the Christian of me. Hmm. Oh gosh. Oh man.
00:27:10.800 I don't know. That's really difficult. So I love CS Lewis. I love CS Lewis and J.R.R. Tolkien. I think
00:27:17.420 it would be awesome to sit down with them. I would love to meet Ronald Reagan. I have no idea if we
00:27:23.120 would get along me and all of these people, but I feel like, I feel like CS Lewis and I would probably
00:27:29.060 get along. So I would really like to sit down with CS Lewis and Jesus. Sure. I think that would be
00:27:35.860 great. Maybe like Esther. I think she's probably, she's pretty bad-ass. I would, I would like to sit
00:27:41.600 down with her, but I think I would say CS Lewis of all of the people, but maybe also my mom's mom
00:27:47.700 who died before I was born way before I was born. Also, also, cause you didn't just say people who
00:27:54.960 died. You said people in the present or people in the future. I don't know anyone from the future yet.
00:28:01.060 I'll let you know if I meet them. Um, but you could also, you could also invite someone to sit
00:28:07.160 down with you that does know about Jesus and who better to tell someone about Jesus than Jesus
00:28:11.920 himself. So I might get some pushback for this, but it would be interesting to sit down with
00:28:18.180 president Trump and Jesus, not saying that he's not saved. I'm just saying there's some sanctification
00:28:23.760 that still needs to be done there. So maybe if he sat down and he had some fellowship with the savior
00:28:29.880 of the universe, uh, uh, sufficiently, not efficiently, whatever. I'm trying to use Calvinist
00:28:38.000 anyway, you know what I'm trying to say. If he sat down with Jesus, um, then maybe there would be
00:28:45.780 some change of behavior and change of heart there. You just never know. You never know. So maybe some
00:28:50.780 people today that need to know Jesus who have significant influence. Um, okay. The next question
00:28:58.740 is, can you talk about that church that doubles as a brewery? That's not really a Q and a question,
00:29:04.960 but it needs to be discussed at length. Uh, okay. So we'll, I'll discuss it a little bit. Maybe I'll
00:29:09.440 do an entire podcast on that, uh, at some point. So I don't know if you guys saw that there's like
00:29:14.640 this viral video going around from now this, who is stupid social media platform, but they share these
00:29:20.660 videos and there is this, um, so-called church that is in a brewery serves beer before church. I think
00:29:28.580 it's in Colorado and that would maybe be cool if that was it maybe, but, um, it also is, you know,
00:29:36.780 affirming of everything. And that they said that, uh, Jesus was killed by white supremacists. And the
00:29:43.360 reason why he came was to, you know, defeat the patriarchy and defeat white supremacy. That really
00:29:49.200 just makes me want to throw up. If that is your tiny view of Jesus, that he fits into your little
00:29:57.620 political ideology. So stupid. And of course it's affirming of all different kinds of sin.
00:30:02.400 So, I mean, the first problem obviously is that it's in a brewery. I do not believe that alcohol
00:30:07.960 is a sin. I drink alcohol myself. Um, but the Bible clearly says that we should not be eating meat or
00:30:15.700 doing anything if it, um, possibly tempts someone who is struggling with that. So if I, for example,
00:30:24.800 if I had a friend who was trying not to drink alcohol, maybe their dad was an alcoholic or
00:30:29.140 they just feel like, you know what? Alcohol is not something that I want to do in my life. It
00:30:33.420 really makes me struggle. I feel like a worse person when I drink alcohol or, you know, someone
00:30:38.000 who can't drink just one beer. They feel like they have to get drunk every time. I'm not going to drink
00:30:43.240 in front of that person, uh, because it puts them in a really difficult situation. And the Bible is
00:30:48.540 very clear that the loving thing to do in that situation would be to, you know, say, you know what?
00:30:53.520 I'm going to abstain as well. The Bible uses the example of eating meat. If someone feels like,
00:30:58.540 uh, um, eating meat that is actually dedicated to idols is a sin then, and you feel like it's
00:31:05.180 holy. Well, just don't eat meat because that's the loving thing to do. Why would you put your
00:31:09.820 brother or sister in that situation? So that's problem. Number one is it's in a brewery. You could
00:31:14.920 be possibly, uh, putting into temptation, someone who is struggling with alcoholism or who doesn't feel
00:31:20.700 like alcohol is holy. So that's not inclusive. You're automatically shutting certain people away.
00:31:28.320 Obviously, uh, the other part is that, uh, Jesus didn't come to shatter the patriarchy or white
00:31:34.800 supremacy. If you want to hear my really, really scandalous take, uh, God actually condones and built
00:31:41.640 the patriarchy. So I won't even get into that right now. Um, and also he wasn't killed by,
00:31:48.080 by white supremacists. It was both Romans and Jews that advocated, uh, for his murder. And I don't
00:31:55.060 think that it had anything to do with race whatsoever. It had to do with the fact that he
00:31:59.240 said that he was a King of the Jews and, um, they didn't like that. And because the Pharisees thought
00:32:06.380 that he was a blasphemer. Uh, so that's how I think of that. It's not a church. It's not a church.
00:32:14.100 It's a gathering that again, people use as a shroud of righteousness over their selfishness.
00:32:21.840 It is the, to wrap this whole thing up, uh, perpetuating the gospel of self-fulfillment.
00:32:27.680 I'm sure these people are very likable. They have a message that tickles the ears of the people that
00:32:32.800 walk in. They think, Oh, great. I can have fire insurance against hell, still go to heaven and do
00:32:37.300 all of the things that I want to do. There's really no such thing as sin. Yeah. Super convenient.
00:32:41.280 I think that would be a very comfortable way to be a Christian, but it's also a damning one.
00:32:47.640 If you want to know my real thoughts on that. Okay. Those are all wonderful questions. I hope that
00:32:52.400 this was, um, interesting for you. If you have any pushback for me, I know this is kind of like
00:32:57.760 a touchy subject or any questions for me, please feel free to email me,
00:33:02.240 ally at the conservative millennial blog.com. I try to respond. Um, but I always, I read the emails and I
00:33:08.320 try to take everything that you say critical or positive seriously. So, uh, thank you so much
00:33:13.600 for listening. I hope you guys have a great weekend.