Relatable with Allie Beth Stuckey - Ep 357 ｜ Taking Cara Babies Gets Canceled & Christian Nationalism Becomes a Scapegoat

00:00:00.000 Hey guys, welcome to Relatable.

00:00:11.380 Happy Monday.

00:00:12.400 Hope everyone had a wonderful weekend.

00:00:14.520 We are talking about two things today.

00:00:16.000 We are talking about cancel culture as it relates to taking care of babies, a baby sleep

00:00:22.120 trainer on Instagram.

00:00:25.000 And then we are also going to talk about if we have time, it depends on how long my cancel

00:00:29.580 culture rant is.

00:00:30.940 We're going to talk about Christian nationalism and the inauguration of President Biden that

00:00:36.800 happened last week and what those two things have to do with one another, what Christian

00:00:40.940 nationalism actually is, what it isn't.

00:00:43.540 We've talked about that before, but we're hopefully going to get a little bit more in

00:00:47.660 depth today.

00:00:48.380 We've got a big week this week.

00:00:50.280 I know I've probably said that every week for the past few weeks, all of 2021 so far,

00:00:55.960 but we're going to talk about Biden's executive orders.

00:00:59.620 He has signed several of them now and what they actually mean.

00:01:03.580 And specifically tomorrow, we're going to talk about the executive order that has to

00:01:09.360 do with sex and gender and what that means for women's sports in particular. 0.96

00:01:16.540 And I will be talking to a scientist who has written about this subject extensively.

00:01:21.920 Specifically, we're going to be talking about how the Biden-Harris administration has been

00:01:27.940 dealing with COVID, some of the false rhetoric that they've already put out, the false promises

00:01:32.540 that were made during the campaign that are not going to be able to apparently be fulfilled

00:01:38.280 according to Biden himself.

00:01:39.680 And so we've got a lot, a lot, a lot to talk about this week.

00:01:43.280 And as always, feel free to send me your suggestions if there's really something that you want explained

00:01:48.160 or someone that you want me to talk to about a certain subject, feel free to send me a message

00:01:53.220 on Instagram and I may be able to get to that.

00:01:57.080 Okay, let's first talk about cancel culture and taking care of babies. 0.64

00:02:01.300 So if you're not in the kind of mom sphere on social media, which I would say I kind of am.

00:02:08.580 My husband doesn't have an Instagram, but whenever he looks at my Instagram feed, he always says

00:02:12.840 that I have the most boring Instagram feed ever because I follow very few people.

00:02:18.140 A lot of the people that I follow are political or cultural commentators.

00:02:22.160 And I'm not following like any, you know, gossip sites.

00:02:25.720 I'm not following a whole lot of like fashion bloggers or anyone that has kind of like a lot

00:02:32.780 of interesting content.

00:02:33.600 But I do follow a few influencers and I follow taking care of babies.

00:02:38.680 Uh, I think that she is such a joyful and a wonderful and a helpful resource for young

00:02:44.440 moms, not just when it comes to, um, sleep training your babies. 0.97

00:02:48.520 If that's something that you're doing and if you're not a mom yet and you didn't know

00:02:52.080 that was a thing, it is a thing trying to get your baby to sleep through the night.

00:02:55.960 Uh, she's also just an encouragement for a lot of moms who feel worn out or they feel

00:03:00.260 overwhelmed or they feel confused.

00:03:01.660 She is always a bright light on Instagram and that just can't be said for a whole lot of people.

00:03:06.820 She doesn't talk politics at all.

00:03:09.020 I've never seen her say anything political.

00:03:12.020 Uh, she doesn't comment on what's going on in society.

00:03:15.160 She didn't have anything to say about the election.

00:03:17.780 Uh, she knows her audience.

00:03:20.100 She knows what the point of her business is and what she is there to do and why she is

00:03:25.220 there to serve people.

00:03:26.480 And that's what she stays focused on.

00:03:28.600 So she sells these programs, um, that you buy and then you watch the videos online.

00:03:35.980 They come with a bunch of resources and you sleep train your baby.

00:03:39.720 There's a lot of different ways to do it.

00:03:41.480 There's a lot of different people who do this, but she has gotten really, really popular over

00:03:45.880 1.3 million Instagram followers.

00:03:48.980 And she is like the sleep trainer to the stars.

00:03:51.560 She has a lot of celebrities, a lot of influencers that trust her to, um, help them sleep train their

00:03:59.860 baby.

00:04:00.560 Well, she became the center of controversy and scandal last week when, um, it was uncovered 0.77

00:04:08.040 that she donated to the Trump campaign.

00:04:10.940 Mommy Instagram erupted in anger and confusion.

00:04:15.000 A bunch of influencers said, Oh my gosh, I got to take time to process this.

00:04:18.900 As if Kara had like killed someone, people were acting like this was an affront to decency.

00:04:26.600 Like it was something that happened to them personally.

00:04:29.580 Like they had been stabbed in the back.

00:04:31.300 It was so dramatic.

00:04:34.020 Um, Instagram influencer, Jamie Grayson, he calls himself a baby product expert.

00:04:39.200 I don't know if he has children himself, but he calls himself a baby product expert and

00:04:44.720 he self, he self describes as a very liberal homosexual. 0.76

00:04:47.860 That's what he said in one of his Instagram captions when he was talking about, um, the horrid

00:04:54.980 nature of taking care of babies of Kara Dumoplin, um, donating to the Trump campaign.

00:05:02.120 So he posted, um, the FEC records that are public on his Instagram showing that Kara had

00:05:10.120 donated to the Trump campaign between 2016 and 2019.

00:05:13.840 There were dozens of other accounts doing the same thing, baby feeding accounts, baby

00:05:18.720 product accounts, OBGYN accounts, et cetera.

00:05:22.160 Some of them with hundreds of thousands of followers, um, posting about these donations,

00:05:27.200 expressing their disgust and their confusion, their sadness and anger, big little feelings,

00:05:32.180 feeding littles.

00:05:32.920 I know some of you, uh, you guys follow them.

00:05:36.160 They were public about their dismay.

00:05:38.900 Uh, the, the first account, big little feelings said that they were going to unfollow feeding

00:05:43.580 littles just said that they had to process this because Kara is their friend.

00:05:47.600 Um, and they believe that black lives matter. 1.00

00:05:50.100 And so this is very difficult for them, but they still love their friends.

00:05:54.800 Uh, so lots of accounts and thousands of Instagrammers and even Twitter users were calling

00:06:00.500 her a racist, calling her a white supremacy, a white supremacist just because not because of 0.97

00:06:06.320 anything she said, not because of anything she's done, not because of any account that 0.95

00:06:10.160 anyone gave saying, Oh yeah, Kara was, you know, racist or rude to me.

00:06:14.440 Actually, a lot of the people that were calling her out, they, um, they prefaced their call

00:06:20.720 out and they prefaced their announcement of unfollowing her or removing their support from

00:06:26.100 her by saying, Oh, Kara has been really nice to me.

00:06:28.520 Kara has been really kind to me.

00:06:29.780 She helps me with my baby or she was even a, a friend of mine.

00:06:33.440 But now I feel like I've been duped and I can no longer support her.

00:06:36.840 Like what?

00:06:38.420 Absolutely terrible friends.

00:06:40.420 Like, even if you are an account, like one of these accounts who posted, like Kara is

00:06:46.000 one of our friends.

00:06:47.280 I'm taking time to process this.

00:06:49.420 This is really hard by the way.

00:06:51.380 We believe that black lives matter, but you know, we might not unfollow her because she's 1.00

00:06:56.000 my friend.

00:06:56.320 That's still not being a good friend.

00:06:58.520 That's not being a good friend.

00:06:59.940 You're jumping on the bandwagon.

00:07:01.500 You're jumping into the mob, even if you caveat it and say, but I, you know, I still love my

00:07:06.900 friend.

00:07:07.240 No, you're still adding to the noise and adding to the pressure and adding to the burden of,

00:07:14.000 um, of criticism on this person's shoulders.

00:07:17.980 So some disgruntled person posted all of her proprietary content on Reddit for free. 1.00

00:07:24.460 That person probably has a lawsuit on their hands. 0.99

00:07:28.160 Now, obviously that is, um, illegal.

00:07:30.920 Now, what is worrying, um, is that, yeah, that's illegal to do.

00:07:35.700 You can't take someone's copyrighted content and then post it for free without legal ramifications.

00:07:41.380 But what's worrying is, is Reddit, and I don't know, maybe it's already been taken down, but

00:07:47.640 it is Reddit or, uh, is Google, uh, going to treat Kara differently?

00:07:53.160 Are they not going to respect the, um, proprietary nature of her, uh, copyrighted, uh, content

00:08:01.420 because of her politics and because of the reasons that it was posted?

00:08:05.320 I mean, you know, we talked about in big tech, if big tech is discriminating against people

00:08:10.780 because of their politics, if they're treating people differently because of their politics,

00:08:14.760 not on evenly and fairly applied rules that they have, um, then you aren't living in a

00:08:21.480 totally free society.

00:08:23.000 Even if the government still honors the first amendment, if other institutions, which have

00:08:29.020 arguably just as much power or a competitive level of power to the government are restricting

00:08:35.660 you or discriminating against you, you don't really totally live in a free society.

00:08:39.600 So that is another concern that we have on top of all of this.

00:08:43.300 Um, Kara made a statement on her stories after the craziness had settled and said, yeah, this

00:08:49.280 is what I did.

00:08:49.880 I donated to president Trump, love me or hate me.

00:08:52.460 I'm here to help you get your baby to sleep.

00:08:54.140 No matter your beliefs, no matter your political party, no matter your background, whatever,

00:08:58.620 it was a perfect response.

00:09:00.160 And we'll get to more of that response, um, in just a second.

00:09:03.560 Uh, this is, uh, this is, I just talked about this a lot on Instagram.

00:09:09.420 And so those of you who follow me and look at my stories are going to, um, you're going

00:09:16.080 to have heard this before I'm going to repeat a lot of what I said on my story.

00:09:20.100 You know, that I was getting very riled up about this.

00:09:22.720 I got a ton of messages from you guys because a lot of the, the mommy pages that you follow

00:09:28.480 were throwing her under the bus.

00:09:30.000 And all you were seeing was this kind of self-righteous cancellation. 0.98

00:09:33.780 And there were very few people just sticking up for her and saying, this is ridiculous.

00:09:38.440 Now there were some, there were even liberal influencers, a liberal influencer that I saw with

00:09:42.860 lots and lots of followers who basically said, and I just forget her name now, but she basically 1.00

00:09:48.060 said, look, I'm not going to, I'm not going to cancel her.

00:09:49.840 Some of my favorite people are Republicans, you know, just because she donated to the Trump

00:09:53.940 campaign doesn't mean I'm going to throw her under the bus. 1.00

00:09:55.540 And I say, good for you.

00:09:56.800 This shouldn't be a partisan issue.

00:09:59.120 Um, a lot of people are saying, I saw some accounts saying this is not cancel culture.

00:10:04.080 This is just holding someone accountable.

00:10:06.320 This is accountability.

00:10:07.620 Accountability isn't cancel culture.

00:10:08.900 Well, we talked about that exact offense last week, and I will link to, uh, the episode

00:10:14.920 that we talked about that in, uh, in the description of this podcast, we go into this phrase, hold

00:10:22.200 accountable and what it actually means.

00:10:24.120 Uh, the phrase hold accountable, uh, it denotes having some kind of authority, uh, over someone.

00:10:31.360 You have to have some kind of authority to hold someone to account.

00:10:34.960 The phrase denotes a hierarchy, a power structure, the authority to punish someone, uh, random

00:10:41.040 people on the internet do not have any authority or obligation to hold a stranger, quote, accountable

00:10:47.580 for their political views.

00:10:49.100 That's not how accountability actually works.

00:10:51.980 A publicly announcing your denunciation of a person because of their vote, the same vote

00:10:57.040 that, by the way, 75 million Americans cast calling them a racist because of it, or refusing

00:11:04.100 to defend that person against allegations of racism, especially if you are that person's

00:11:09.580 friend, encouraging other people to unfollow them is not accountability.

00:11:14.020 That's what bullies say to make themselves feel better about taking part in a public shaming 0.52

00:11:18.700 that's meant to ruin someone's life and livelihood.

00:11:21.440 Uh, posting someone's content for free that they charge money for to support themselves and

00:11:25.980 their family does not make you some anti-racist hero. 0.90

00:11:29.160 It makes you a fascist bully.

00:11:31.440 It makes you all of the things that you claim to hate. 1.00

00:11:34.540 It reveals something miserable and very grotesque and very troubling and disturbing about your

00:11:38.980 heart.

00:11:39.880 Encouraging the storming of someone's Yelp page, uh, or Google reviews with negative reviews

00:11:45.780 because you don't like their politics or you don't like their religious beliefs, uh, targeting

00:11:50.880 people's advertisers because you don't like their views, purposely seeking out, uh, a conservative

00:11:56.220 Christian florist, for example, to service your gay wedding.

00:12:00.020 So you can sue them when they say, no, none of this makes anyone a hero.

00:12:05.360 None of this is accountability.

00:12:06.900 It makes you a sad, small person.

00:12:09.320 And that example of the florist is not just a random example.

00:12:12.220 It's not just a figment of my imagination.

00:12:14.100 That's something that has actually happened.

00:12:16.260 This is exactly the kind of behavior that makes a country ripe for totalitarianism, whether

00:12:22.140 it be fascism or communism, as we've talked about before, those two things are not on opposite

00:12:27.200 ends of the spectrum.

00:12:28.620 Uh, the political ideological spectrum is a circle.

00:12:32.320 It's not, uh, it's, it's not a line.

00:12:35.540 Communism and fascism are two, uh, are two kinds of totalitarianism that only differ in pretense,

00:12:42.740 whether, uh, or whereas, uh, fascism, the only pretense that they have, or maybe they don't

00:12:48.660 have a pretense at all, but fascists just want power.

00:12:51.980 Communists say that they are taking power and centralizing power in the name of, you know,

00:12:57.100 alleviating oppression.

00:12:58.540 But the end result is always the same.

00:13:01.060 There's very little daylight practically in the end result between communism and fascism.

00:13:06.820 They're just two parts or two kinds of totalitarianism.

00:13:11.820 Uh, the deadliest revolution of the past 100 years was the Chinese communist revolution 0.96

00:13:17.100 under Mao, which was responsible for the murder of about 80 million Chinese people.

00:13:22.360 And it wasn't just a political or economic revolution that killed landowners, landlords,

00:13:28.180 political dissidents, Christians, other citizens in the name of communism.

00:13:31.480 It was also a cultural revolution.

00:13:34.420 So when, if anyone tells, you know, that tyranny is not coming down the pipeline, totalitarianism

00:13:39.920 isn't coming down the pipeline because, uh, we have the constitution and the government

00:13:43.800 isn't doing X, Y, Z.

00:13:45.340 You don't understand that totalitarianism also happens on the cultural level.

00:13:50.100 It happens in the private sector level as well.

00:13:53.420 The, the communist revolution in China was a cultural revolution that set itself against,

00:13:58.740 uh, old tradition, specifically what we're referred to as the four olds.

00:14:03.340 So old ideas, old cult culture, old habits, and old customs, uh, the culture was changed

00:14:10.080 by changing public opinion through terror, through punishment, and through shame.

00:14:14.840 They had what was called a struggle sessions where they would take a person who was accused

00:14:19.860 of being an anti-communist or holding on to old ideas or wrong ideas, what George Orwell

00:14:26.040 would call in 1984 wrong think, uh, place them in public and verbally and physically abuse

00:14:31.640 them until the person confessed the crimes and repented.

00:14:35.240 And this wasn't just to punish the accused, but also to shape public opinion, to change

00:14:40.400 culture through shame and fear.

00:14:42.140 This happened in the deadliest revolution of the past 100 years, the Chinese communist 1.00

00:14:47.520 revolution under Mao, 80 million people dead.

00:14:52.240 And one of the ways that people died was through this kind of struggle session that again happened

00:14:57.080 on the cultural level, on the interpersonal level.

00:15:00.240 This wasn't the government enforcing these things in all of these cases.

00:15:03.560 These were people trying to change public opinion through public shame.

00:15:09.620 Totalitarianism means literally nothing against the state or nothing outside of the state,

00:15:14.060 but that's not how it starts.

00:15:16.600 Totalitarianism starts with private citizens, companies, industries, schools, institutions,

00:15:21.460 refusing to allow people to hold opinions outside of mainstream thought without punishment.

00:15:26.120 Leftism right now, it hasn't always been this way, but right now, and over the past several

00:15:32.960 years has come to dominate our social and cultural dialogue.

00:15:37.440 Hollywood, big tech, public education, mainstream media are all increasingly dominated by leftism.

00:15:44.400 That is why people who hold to, some people, obviously not all at all, but some people who hold

00:15:49.860 to leftism feel empowered to publicly shame and punish those they disagree with.

00:15:54.920 That's why they are able to convince themselves that this is okay, because the people who disagree

00:15:59.540 with them are on, quote, the wrong side of history.

00:16:02.340 They are able to delude themselves into thinking that others vote differently, not just because

00:16:07.440 they see things differently, but because they're fundamentally evil.

00:16:11.500 People who engage in cancel culture, digging up old tweets, getting people fired for their

00:16:17.380 political or religious views, trying to shut down people's businesses and ruining their

00:16:22.420 livelihood.

00:16:23.060 They fancy themselves like the allied forces storming the beaches of Normandy to defeat Nazis, 0.99

00:16:30.500 when really they're just nothing more than glorified internet trolls.

00:16:35.140 And really, if you thought, if you saw yourself as someone who is defeating Nazis through what

00:16:41.040 you're doing, then you would be patting yourself on the back too.

00:16:44.820 You would be, you would be going at any person who disagreed with you.

00:16:49.160 If you believe that those on the other side of the aisle were fundamentally evil and similar

00:16:53.820 to Nazis, of course you would have a sense of self-righteousness, but it's really embarrassing

00:16:58.120 to think about these delusions of grandeur and how they are blinded to what they actually 0.90

00:17:04.360 are, which is, like I said, just glorified internet trolls with a totally unearned sense

00:17:10.560 of self-righteousness.

00:17:12.220 It's worse than just embarrassing, though.

00:17:14.620 It is damaging to society.

00:17:16.720 We can't function like this.

00:17:18.760 Whether it's people doing this on the right or the left, using all of our influence and

00:17:23.940 our social capital to cancel one another just because we disagree with each other.

00:17:28.380 Is this the unity that we've been hearing so much about?

00:17:30.820 Is this the decency and the normalcy that we were told that we would get if we voted

00:17:35.140 for Joe Biden?

00:17:36.380 Or was it really just conformity that people were after all along?

00:17:41.040 Remember, if you're a leftist listening to this, God bless you, because I know that you

00:17:45.640 disagree with probably everything that I say, but I appreciate you being here.

00:17:50.020 I also listen to podcasts and shows from the other side of the aisle, and I know it can

00:17:54.220 be frustrating.

00:17:55.000 And I know you might be yelling at your stereo sometimes when I speak, but I really do appreciate

00:18:00.220 you being here.

00:18:01.200 And if you're thinking, no, this is not cancel culture, this is just holding someone accountable,

00:18:05.080 or maybe you're thinking, yeah, but the rights views really are damaging.

00:18:08.480 They really are harmful.

00:18:09.520 They really are bad.

00:18:10.400 They really are worth cancellation.

00:18:12.400 It's not cancel culture.

00:18:13.500 It's just making sure that racist, fascist don't have a platform, whatever it is that you're

00:18:18.480 telling yourself to justify this in your mind.

00:18:21.460 To try to convince yourself that you're not the one on the bad side, that you're not the

00:18:25.380 fascist, that everyone else is. 0.63

00:18:27.080 Understand that I, as a conservative, think that you, as a leftist, are just as immorally, 0.96

00:18:33.620 dangerously, harmfully wrong.

00:18:35.740 And I'm not saying you are those things, but your ideas, I believe, are immoral, dangerous,

00:18:41.380 and harmful just as much as you think that my ideas are.

00:18:44.720 If your answer, again, is to all of this, well, your views are actually dangerous, though. 0.93

00:18:51.860 Look, you support, as a true leftist, unrestricted, taxpayer-funded access to killing babies in 0.98

00:18:58.280 the womb. 0.63

00:18:58.780 Your views cost over a million little lives every year.

00:19:02.760 And I manage to follow all kinds of people who openly hold these views without calling

00:19:07.280 for their cancellation.

00:19:07.980 I am just as passionate about the wrongness of your views as you are of mine, and you

00:19:13.440 don't see me trying to ruin your life or anyone's life who just doesn't agree with me.

00:19:19.000 And I wouldn't do that.

00:19:20.780 If your worldview justifies the cancellation of people who disagree with you because you

00:19:26.200 have convinced yourself that everyone who does so is fundamentally evil, you are on the

00:19:31.480 bad side.

00:19:32.500 Whether you're on the left or right side of the political aisle, you have a bad tree that's

00:19:36.500 bearing bad fruit, and you need to get rid of it.

00:19:39.400 Now, I do have some caveats to all of this because I get a lot of questions.

00:19:43.480 Well, what's really cancel culture?

00:19:45.440 Can we not vote with our dollar?

00:19:47.180 Can we not take our money to a place that aligns with our values?

00:19:50.780 Is that cancel culture?

00:19:51.800 Is boycotting certain companies like Netflix?

00:19:56.520 Is that cancel culture?

00:19:57.560 How do I know what's cancel culture?

00:19:59.260 What's not?

00:19:59.720 And I'm going to explain some caveats, at least in my opinion, to all of this.

00:20:06.500 So I do think there are some caveats, some nuance, if you will, in this conversation.

00:20:15.680 So I do think that you should vote with your dollar in the sense that I think it's completely

00:20:20.440 fair game to support or not support a business based on their values.

00:20:24.660 If you are someone who thinks, you know what, I can't take baby sleep training classes from

00:20:29.740 someone who voted for Donald Trump or donated to Donald Trump, I think that's fine.

00:20:33.660 I don't think that that is cancel culture.

00:20:36.700 I will say that it's a lot easier for liberals to do this and liberals do this a lot more

00:20:41.060 than conservatives do because it's harder for conservatives to do this.

00:20:45.200 I mean, we follow bloggers, influencers, authors, go to salon stores, use websites, watch shows

00:20:50.820 run by people that we know hate our values who show us that they hate our values and, you know,

00:20:58.260 probably hate us in our way of life.

00:21:00.660 But either way, if you're a liberal or a conservative, I do think it's fair game to not support someone's

00:21:07.940 business whose values you don't line up with.

00:21:11.000 But in my opinion, this turns into cancel culture.

00:21:14.820 When you start orchestrating and organizing mafia-like behavior against this person or company,

00:21:20.500 so doxing, intimidation, threats, just hatefulness in messages, storming their review pages, harassment,

00:21:29.500 trying to get their business closed down, targeting their advertisers, targeting their website hosts,

00:21:34.540 or anything that they need to do to do their business, that's wrong.

00:21:38.140 That's vengeance.

00:21:39.080 Romans 16, 19 prohibits Christians from acts of vengeance.

00:21:42.860 Remember, it is not within your or my jurisdiction to, quote,

00:21:46.960 hold accountable random people on the internet whose views we don't like.

00:21:51.660 We can disagree with them.

00:21:52.880 I think we can call them out, even if we want to, obviously, in a respectful way.

00:21:58.020 We can refuse to support them.

00:21:59.680 We can use our money as we see fit.

00:22:02.140 But we shouldn't try to harass or ruin people's lives who just think differently than we do.

00:22:08.220 Here's another caveat.

00:22:09.720 I do think that awareness campaigns and even boycotts can be called for

00:22:14.400 when there is actual illegality or immorality going on.

00:22:19.000 And I know, immorality, that's a subjective term to a lot of people.

00:22:24.500 Some people might say, well, it's absolutely immoral to donate to the Trump campaign.

00:22:29.500 This is the most egregious, immoral thing that you can possibly do.

00:22:34.700 But I think that to be fair and to make sure that we don't go scorched earth both sides

00:22:41.360 when it comes to trying to destroy each other, that we, based on our political disagreements,

00:22:47.660 we need to have a very narrow view of what that means and what actually justifies any kind

00:22:53.900 of orchestrated cancellation.

00:22:55.800 So I'm not talking about canceling someone for how they vote or having an unpopular religious

00:23:03.180 view.

00:23:03.420 That should be off the table.

00:23:05.440 People boycotting Netflix, though, for streaming Cuties and using a disturbing advertisement

00:23:11.400 for a movie about little girls.

00:23:14.140 People refusing to buy from Nike because of their use of Chinese slave labor or trying to 1.00

00:23:18.700 buy less from China because of their use of slave labor.

00:23:22.740 People trying to take down Pornhub for allowing and monetizing non-consensual content and child

00:23:30.340 pornography, Harvey or boycotting Harvey Weinstein movies.

00:23:34.320 I think that is all fair game.

00:23:36.700 We have to be able to differentiate between taking our support and even encouraging the

00:23:41.660 removal of support from institutions like this, companies like this, and seeking to destroy

00:23:49.120 someone's life just because they say something or vote in a way or donate in a way that you

00:23:54.000 don't like.

00:23:54.360 We have to be able to have discernment to distinguish between those two things.

00:23:59.340 I also think that it's important to distinguish between, and this is obvious, but we just need

00:24:04.960 to say there's a difference between boycotting Netflix, a huge company, and people encouraging

00:24:12.500 everyone to unfollow a small business owner because they believe in the Bible and they believe

00:24:18.500 in biblical marriage or because someone voted for Trump along with 75 million of their fellow

00:24:23.980 Americans.

00:24:24.920 Like, you know you're not going to bankrupt Netflix by deleting your account.

00:24:30.900 There's not going to be, you know, a ton of lives ruined because you did that, but you

00:24:34.700 may very well forever ruin the life of a small business owner that you bully just because they

00:24:40.840 don't agree with all of your views.

00:24:42.840 And remember, for Christians, it's not just the what and the how of removing our support

00:24:48.460 from a person or an institution or a business.

00:24:51.560 It's also the why.

00:24:53.280 We do nothing as Christians, according to God's word, out of bitterness or selfish ambition,

00:24:58.360 as Philippians 2.3 says.

00:25:00.060 We put away all bitterness and wrath and slander and anger and malice, as Ephesians 4.31 says.

00:25:05.760 We encourage, we rebuke within the church.

00:25:08.780 We seek truthful, direct, proportionate justice.

00:25:12.100 That's a biblical definition of justice where appropriate.

00:25:16.300 But we do not avenge.

00:25:17.940 We do not cancel.

00:25:19.680 Like I said, Kara handled this perfectly.

00:25:21.920 I think she didn't apologize.

00:25:23.940 She didn't try to justify.

00:25:25.240 She didn't try to over explain.

00:25:26.620 She didn't add any caveats or loopholes or try to pretend that her views on Trump have

00:25:32.040 changed and that she regrets donating to his campaign.

00:25:35.000 She said, look, he did things that I like.

00:25:37.180 He did things that I didn't like.

00:25:38.980 But yeah, I supported him.

00:25:40.520 So I think she did a really, really great job at handling this.

00:25:44.020 And then she moved on to what she does, to what she focuses on by saying, look, no matter

00:25:49.400 who you are, no matter who you voted for, no matter who your background is, I'm going

00:25:53.460 to help you sleep train your baby.

00:25:54.800 That's what I'm here for.

00:25:56.000 And I am here to love you and to help you.

00:25:57.940 So good job, Kara, from taking care of babies.

00:26:00.800 So here are four lessons that I think that we need to learn from all of this and that

00:26:06.500 we can take to heart as we move forward in this crazy cancel culture culture in which 0.97

00:26:12.120 we live.

00:26:12.940 Number one, do not engage in cancel culture. 1.00

00:26:16.580 We can disagree.

00:26:17.880 We can call out.

00:26:19.180 Even we can unfollow.

00:26:20.840 We can take our money elsewhere.

00:26:22.280 But unless there's criminality at work or true evil on display, as we already explained,

00:26:26.680 we don't engage in the orchestration of taking down someone's business or reputation.

00:26:30.820 And even then, we are called not to slander, not to gossip, not to let our motivation be

00:26:36.120 revenge or malice, but rather truth and love.

00:26:39.280 So we do not, under any circumstance, join in on the cancellation of someone for having

00:26:43.780 an unpopular political or religious opinion.

00:26:46.180 We're probably all guilty of this in one way or another, whether we realized it in the

00:26:50.820 moment or not.

00:26:52.100 And so we just have to learn from this and move forward in a better direction.

00:26:56.680 Number two, if you see someone being unjustly canceled or bullied, stand up for them.

00:27:02.340 Publicly stand up for them.

00:27:04.120 Say something.

00:27:05.340 This is part of treating people how you want to be treated.

00:27:08.240 Would you want people to stand up for you if you're being bullied?

00:27:11.200 Now, this doesn't mean in every single case where you see a conservative being criticized

00:27:15.820 or someone with unpopular views being criticized that you always have to say something.

00:27:20.160 I mean, that would be a lot.

00:27:21.900 You're not responsible to do that every single time.

00:27:24.480 But if you support someone or you follow someone or you see a story going around that

00:27:29.900 you think explains some kind of unjust cancellation or bullying or harassment, then stand up and

00:27:37.140 say something.

00:27:38.360 You would want people to stand up for you if you were being targeted and bullied for your

00:27:42.840 views.

00:27:43.300 You would want someone to speak on your behalf.

00:27:45.720 You would want someone.

00:27:46.780 I would want someone to say, look, I'm going to defend what I know about her.

00:27:52.680 I'm not going to let her be canceled for either an unfair characterization, slander, gossip, 0.99

00:27:59.880 or just because she's a conservative or a Christian or whatever.

00:28:05.340 And I think that you would feel the same way.

00:28:08.260 I would feel more confident.

00:28:09.940 You would feel more confident and assured knowing that there is an army of encouragement and support

00:28:14.640 behind you.

00:28:15.380 So we need to stand up for people when they are canceled unjustly, send them a private

00:28:19.980 message of support, post in their defense, take the heat for doing it, be ready for that,

00:28:26.100 and encourage your friends to do the same.

00:28:28.540 The time has come and gone for us to just be in CYA mode.

00:28:32.740 And if you don't know what that is, I'm not going to say the acronym because you probably

00:28:36.600 have kids in the card.

00:28:37.580 But the time has come and gone for us to just be self-interested when it comes to this kind

00:28:42.900 of stuff and self-protecting when it comes to this.

00:28:45.120 We have to be on each other's team.

00:28:47.580 If someone comes after a Christian or conservative for their views or anyone of any belief just

00:28:53.600 for having an opinion or supporting a certain politician, we got to stand up in solidarity

00:28:58.520 of either our beliefs or just in defense of freedom of speech and thought and be able to share some of

00:29:05.320 the arrows that are coming their way.

00:29:07.820 Number three, stop being ashamed of your views.

00:29:12.080 If you are a conservative, remember, you are not the radical.

00:29:16.900 It is not radical to believe in free speech, freedom of religion, smaller government, deregulation,

00:29:22.900 lower taxes, strong borders, the right to self-defense, capitalism, the scientific definition of male

00:29:29.000 and female, school choice, the protection of unborn babies. 1.00

00:29:32.220 That is not radical.

00:29:33.940 There's not a single one of those views that is radical.

00:29:36.640 Some of these ideas just fell out of vogue like five minutes ago.

00:29:40.340 It is radical to believe in policing speech and religious belief, in unencumbered bureaucratic

00:29:45.800 power, in centralized bureaucratic power, and the inability to defend yourself and your

00:29:51.780 family and the freedom to kill babies in the womb, socialism, 67 genders. 1.00

00:29:55.400 These are radical, some of them novel views.

00:29:58.340 They are impractical beliefs, and the people who hold to them want you to think that you

00:30:02.780 are crazy for not believing them.

00:30:05.080 It is not even radical for you to believe what cultures around the world for millennia

00:30:10.900 have believed, that families are made up of a mom and a dad and kids.

00:30:15.720 It was literally just a few years ago that people decided that the natural nuclear family

00:30:19.980 is just arbitrary.

00:30:22.140 You are not crazy or radical for believing what humans have believed for millennia, and more

00:30:26.580 importantly, what God says he created with purpose and care, just because Twitter trolls

00:30:31.200 or even people in power say that you are.

00:30:34.200 Nothing within the belief system that I just described is in any way shameful.

00:30:38.500 They may be arguable, and they may be to a lot of people up for debate, and that's great.

00:30:43.320 I am willing and ready and happy to welcome debate on any of these things.

00:30:49.320 But they are not ideas that you should feel like you can't safely express or that you

00:30:55.100 have to share in whispered tones in public.

00:30:57.560 Because remember, for every whisper, for every totally, perfectly legitimate opinion that

00:31:03.860 you muffle or don't say for fear of being canceled, you let the totalitarians win every

00:31:09.120 time that we are too scared to stand up for someone whose character we know is arguable or

00:31:14.180 who is being slandered because of their views or who is being canceled because of their values,

00:31:19.180 every time that we stay silent because we don't want to catch the heat, because we want

00:31:24.040 to protect ourselves, we let the totalitarians win.

00:31:27.340 We might feel like we are protecting ourselves from the harm of battle, but we're still going

00:31:31.760 to be a casualty of the ultimate war.

00:31:34.780 Do not apologize for your views.

00:31:36.900 Do not feel like you have to justify them.

00:31:39.060 Do not be embarrassed by them.

00:31:41.160 State them plainly, confidently, reasonably, logically, factually, and as kindly and as

00:31:46.680 gently as humanly possible.

00:31:49.120 Number four, last tip in all of this, do not apologize.

00:31:52.760 Kind of goes with number three.

00:31:54.300 If the mob is mad at you for saying something or doing something that you do not regret and

00:32:00.440 is not actually wrong, don't apologize.

00:32:03.900 Do not explain away.

00:32:04.980 Do not excuse.

00:32:05.860 Do not bend a knee.

00:32:06.680 Your options in this particular case are to double down or ignore.

00:32:11.740 Now, if there was something that you legitimately did wrong, there are things or things that

00:32:17.320 I've said that were misconstrued or that I should have said better, I've apologized for

00:32:23.100 those things.

00:32:24.000 If that's the case with you, then sure, you apologize.

00:32:27.080 If it's something that you truly regret, then sure, you apologize.

00:32:30.280 You show humility.

00:32:31.300 If something actually does need to be explained, then by all means, you can show humility and

00:32:36.120 do that.

00:32:37.140 But realize and put in your mind that your contriteness that you may be showing is motivated

00:32:42.400 by the Holy Spirit and is for God, not because you're scared of the pitchforks of the mob.

00:32:47.860 We shouldn't do anything motivated by the mob.

00:32:51.120 So I know I should have five tips to try to make this even, but I don't.

00:32:56.420 Those are my tips for cancel culture. 0.98

00:32:58.240 I think that we can also, we can take the example of Kara and how she handled the whole

00:33:05.300 thing so graciously, so gently, and so kindly.

00:33:08.680 We can look at some of the bullies and some of the people who claim to be her friends coming

00:33:13.280 after her and we can see what we shouldn't do if we say we're someone's friend or what

00:33:17.220 we shouldn't do just as human beings, but instead, we can handle all things with as

00:33:26.080 much grace as possible, even while we disagree.

00:33:28.140 You know, I disagree with a lot of people.

00:33:29.360 I publicly disagree with a lot of people.

00:33:31.280 I think that's fine.

00:33:32.500 I think that's totally fair game.

00:33:33.700 Again, debate, discussion, all well and good.

00:33:36.480 Going scorched earth and trying to ruin the lives and the livelihoods of people who vote 1.00

00:33:41.280 differently than you, who have different ideas than you, guys, it's not sustainable.

00:33:45.320 It's not sustainable.

00:33:46.140 Remember what happened in the 20th century in China and, I mean, what's still happening

00:33:51.080 in a lot of ways, but totalitarianism, it doesn't spare anyone.

00:33:57.880 Even if you are on the side of the cancelers right now, you will not be spared when the

00:34:04.100 totalitarian state that you are setting up culturally and personally actually takes root.

00:34:10.960 You won't like the world that you are creating by canceling people because they disagree with

00:34:14.900 you.

00:34:15.040 I promise you that.

00:34:15.820 All right.

00:34:16.320 Now we're going to talk as quickly as I can about Christian nationalism, the inauguration.

00:34:26.260 All right.

00:34:27.560 So we've been talking about Christian nationalism.

00:34:30.260 We talked about it a couple of weeks ago because Beth Moore did a Twitter thread talking about

00:34:34.780 how Christian nationalism is the biggest threat to evangelicalism.

00:34:37.920 And I believe I asked her on Twitter what she means by Christian nationalism, did not get

00:34:43.160 a response.

00:34:43.780 I have asked her a few times to define several terms, and I haven't gotten a response.

00:34:48.440 That's okay.

00:34:49.120 No, she's a very popular lady. 1.00

00:34:51.040 She has no responsibility to answer me.

00:34:53.680 But I do think it's important in these kinds of conversations, whether we're talking about

00:34:57.400 critical race theory and accusations of critical race theory and Marxism, or whether we're talking

00:35:01.720 about Christian nationalism and accusations of being a Christian nationalist, everyone needs

00:35:06.360 to be on the same page for what these terms mean, or at least the people leveling the accusations

00:35:10.780 and complaints need to be very precise about their language.

00:35:14.400 They need to define their terms and give examples of this.

00:35:18.680 So it's not just Beth Moore, it's also the secular world and secular media talking about the dangers

00:35:26.020 of Christian nationalism, especially as it relates to Trump and specifically as it related to the

00:35:30.820 capital rights that happened a few weeks ago.

00:35:34.300 Lecrae, someone sent me this, said on his Instagram story that he is glad about racism and

00:35:40.640 quote, Christian nationalism being held accountable, that phrase again.

00:35:45.180 So this is, I would say, a buzz phrase.

00:35:48.340 Now, a lot of people on the left would say that critical race theory and Marxism, that

00:35:53.100 those are buzzwords and buzz phrases on the right.

00:35:56.540 But as I've said, and as I've done so many times on this podcast, I think the people who

00:36:01.980 talk about critical race theory and the problems with critical race theory have done a really,

00:36:07.440 really good job, a painstakingly good job in defining exactly what critical race theory

00:36:14.760 is, exactly what Marxism looks like, exactly what the dangers of Marxist social justice is,

00:36:23.520 I think they've done a really, really good job of saying what exactly that looks like,

00:36:28.480 what the examples are, why it's incongruent with biblical Christianity.

00:36:31.960 I cannot say that about a lot of the people who are leveling accusations of Christian nationalism.

00:36:38.240 So it's up to me and you to figure out what is actually meant when people like Beth Moore

00:36:43.480 or Lecrae or Christianity Today talk about Christian nationalism and what it actually looks

00:36:50.260 like.

00:36:50.620 And so at the Capitol riot a couple weeks ago, there was Christian imagery.

00:36:54.500 There were crosses.

00:36:55.400 There were Bible verses.

00:36:56.360 There were pictures of Jesus.

00:36:57.800 And you had a lot of evangelicals saying, oh my gosh, this is so awful that they're using

00:37:02.240 Jesus in the church this way.

00:37:03.520 This is Christian nationalism.

00:37:05.260 And I agree, I don't want people using Christian symbolism.

00:37:10.260 I don't want people using the cross or a depiction of Jesus or the ichthys or whatever it is or

00:37:15.600 the Bible for the justification of any kind of wickedness.

00:37:20.040 But by the way, like if you go to a pride parade, people are also holding posters with either

00:37:29.460 the depiction of Jesus with a rainbow flag or using Bible verses to justify or the name of God or the name of

00:37:38.720 Jesus to kind of justify their position.

00:37:40.820 So this is not something at all that is exclusive to people on the right.

00:37:45.240 This also happens in progressive circles.

00:37:48.260 And I think that as Christians, we need to be really consistent.

00:37:51.280 We need to say, okay, we should not be using and abusing the word of God or Christianity or Christian

00:37:56.800 symbolism in order to decontextualize it, to try to misapply it to our political or social

00:38:08.900 stances.

00:38:10.420 However, it seems that when the right does it, there is far more of an uproar, not just within

00:38:17.000 evangelicalism, but also within the mainstream media.

00:38:19.500 The New York Times wrote an article, how white evangelical Christians fused with Trump

00:38:24.820 extremism.

00:38:25.560 Always got to get the race descriptor in there.

00:38:28.020 The New York Times reporters apparently allegedly spoke with many people at the riots, many of

00:38:33.300 whom were self-professing people of faith who also believed the election results were fraudulent.

00:38:37.480 And other reporting, like one mother of 15, highlighting her fear that Biden would ultimately make the

00:38:42.840 Bible hate speech based off of posts on Facebook and Twitter, which were all, quote, false.

00:38:48.720 So the New York Times claims.

00:38:51.040 I love when journalists insert themselves into the story and become the arbiters of truth and

00:38:55.580 even theology.

00:38:58.180 The New York Times says this, this potent mix of grievance and religious fervor has turbocharged

00:39:02.800 the support of a wide swath of Trump loyalists, many of whom describe themselves as participants

00:39:08.040 in a kind of holy war, according to interviews.

00:39:11.800 So according to this definition, and they're not even saying necessarily Christian nationalism,

00:39:18.320 and this is what we talked about a couple weeks ago.

00:39:21.160 People who call themselves Christians, who see America as the city on the hill, who see 0.97

00:39:27.740 America as God's chosen country, who basically read the prophecies.

00:39:32.360 And I've talked to people like this.

00:39:33.900 They tend to be Q followers, although maybe they're not all Q followers.

00:39:37.960 But they believe that the prophecies of the Old Testament are actually about America, that

00:39:44.560 those are the things that are happening right now, and that Trump is some kind of prophet

00:39:50.240 chosen by God to try to prevent bad things from happening to America.

00:39:55.940 And so they really do conflate the American experience with God's eternal plan of redemption.

00:40:04.500 They really conflate biblical prophecies with what's going on today.

00:40:09.780 It's a very myopic view of eternity.

00:40:14.900 It's a very myopic view, really, of history just in the past 400 years.

00:40:20.720 It's a very narrow view of what's going on in the world right now.

00:40:24.200 And this is something that I have warned you guys against.

00:40:26.460 Not making America the center of prophecy or the center of God's plan.

00:40:36.600 Like we are a wonderful nation that has been, I think, specially blessed by God graciously

00:40:42.660 and mercifully.

00:40:44.380 But we are not modern day Israel.

00:40:48.020 The church is God's chosen people.

00:40:50.960 And his eternal plan of redemption is going off without a hitch, no matter what happens

00:40:56.980 in the United States.

00:40:57.920 That doesn't mean that he doesn't care about what's going on in the United States.

00:41:01.180 But for us to think that the end times are dependent on the trials that we're facing here

00:41:05.700 are dependent even more superficially on who is president and who is not or what's going

00:41:10.600 on behind the political scenes in America, that's wrong.

00:41:13.760 The Bible does not give us any support for that kind of thinking.

00:41:16.940 And so I agree with the New York Times and other critics that say people who are trying

00:41:22.100 to say that America is God's chosen country and that the biblical prophecies are pointing

00:41:26.980 to America's current tribulation or the onset of tribulation for American Christians.

00:41:34.840 I agree that that's wrong.

00:41:37.160 That's dangerous.

00:41:38.060 That is a wrong interpretation of the Bible.

00:41:41.760 That's bad hermeneutics.

00:41:43.100 And I do believe that that's dangerous.

00:41:44.900 It's led people into a kind of idolatry and paranoia that is damaging people's hearts

00:41:51.160 and minds and their families and relationships and how they view the world.

00:41:55.100 They're not viewing the world rightly.

00:41:56.960 They're not trusting God.

00:41:58.480 They are looking to Q or they're looking to Trump or they're looking to internet forums

00:42:03.140 to try to tell them what's really going on when really God is just as much in control

00:42:07.300 as he has ever been.

00:42:09.300 And God is not waiting on what America does.

00:42:12.240 God's plan is dependent on what happens in America.

00:42:14.900 Again, that doesn't mean it doesn't matter what happens here, but you know that there

00:42:18.380 are Christians throughout the world who have been dealing with tribulation-like suffering

00:42:23.260 for years and years and years.

00:42:25.520 It has nothing to do with what's happening in America.

00:42:27.700 You know that there are amazing, miraculous, huge things going on in the church in Lebanon,

00:42:35.380 for example, or another church in the Middle East or in Asia, wherever.

00:42:39.360 We are not the center of the story.

00:42:41.520 America is not the center of the biblical story.

00:42:44.160 That is, I think, what people who, whether they know it or not, hold to Christian nationalism.

00:42:49.120 That's what you need to understand.

00:42:51.180 But what progressive Christians need to understand is that progressive Christianity often makes

00:42:56.260 the very same theological mistakes, the very same biblical interpretation mistakes as

00:43:02.500 Christian nationalists do.

00:43:03.740 So Christian nationalists basically think that bringing God's kingdom here on earth is something

00:43:09.460 that they can do by voting for the right people and making sure that Trump's in power and

00:43:13.940 making sure that the right things happen and that we are able to create basically some kind

00:43:22.020 of Christian nation and some kind of theocracy here on earth, even though there is no biblical

00:43:28.280 precedent whatsoever, Old or New Testament, for doing that.

00:43:31.820 I think Christian nationalists kind of think that way, but progressive Christians also think

00:43:36.340 that way.

00:43:37.100 Like, they also think that manifesting God's kingdom here on earth means that you are voting

00:43:43.760 for the right social justice policies and the right social justice politicians to bring some

00:43:48.700 kind of socialist utopia here on earth in which everyone is equal.

00:43:52.540 There's no disparity of outcome.

00:43:54.360 And we are in this perfect collectivist heaven-like place where there is no oppression and there's

00:44:02.580 no evil and there's no racism.

00:44:05.360 Christian progressives who are constantly leveling complaints against Christian nationalists have

00:44:11.020 the same wrong interpretation.

00:44:12.800 Their visions of the future are just different.

00:44:16.140 And so as Christians who seek to have a biblical worldview, we need to be able to stand in the

00:44:21.780 middle, evenly criticize both and say both are wrong, both are bad biblical interpretations,

00:44:26.980 and we shouldn't be a part of it.

00:44:29.780 Both of them, both ideas, both wrong interpretations of biblical prophecy and the biblical text and

00:44:36.220 our mandate as Christians center our experience and the American experience in their eschatology,

00:44:44.580 in their view of God's eternal plan of redemption, in their biblical interpretation.

00:44:49.220 And both are guilty of idolatry, quite frankly, in different ways.

00:44:54.480 And so that's why it's very difficult for me to hear people like in Christianity, 1.00

00:45:00.340 the people who write for, for example, Christianity Today, like Tish Harrison Warren,

00:45:06.000 talk about the dangers of Christian nationalism when, and correct me if I'm wrong, I don't hear

00:45:12.680 the same kind of criticism of the idolatry of progressive Christianity, which basically has

00:45:19.400 the same vision, but with a different manifestation of the end goal.

00:45:26.040 Here's an article in Christianity Today.

00:45:28.860 So Tish Harrison Warren says,

00:45:30.660 The article goes on to say, and this is a different article in which that quote was,

00:45:48.760 Christian nationalism is a political ideology about American identity.

00:45:52.000 It is a set of policy prescriptions for what the nationalists believe the American government

00:45:58.220 should do.

00:45:59.220 It's actually a secular philosophy.

00:46:01.160 It idealizes and advocates a fusion of Christianity with American civic life.

00:46:06.260 That is Christian nationalism.

00:46:07.900 The reason I have a problem with this definition is because I think it is purposely trying to scare

00:46:13.920 conservative Christians away from having influence in the spheres in which God has placed you.

00:46:19.580 And it also refuses to criticize how progressive Christianity seeks to influence all the spheres

00:46:26.100 that they are in.

00:46:28.500 So just saying that Christian nationalism is trying to fuse what goes on in society or what goes on

00:46:35.560 in civic life with Christianity, that's way too broad. 0.99

00:46:39.480 Every person of every belief system tries to influence civic life with their belief system.

00:46:45.500 No one is without a worldview.

00:46:47.320 No one is without a morality.

00:46:48.660 No one is without a belief system.

00:46:50.440 And everyone believes that their belief system is right and it's best.

00:46:55.020 And you try to influence law.

00:46:57.660 You try to influence academia.

00:46:59.460 You try to influence curriculum.

00:47:01.400 You try to influence your workplace with the worldview that you hold.

00:47:05.780 And that's what everyone does.

00:47:07.460 That's what everyone should do.

00:47:08.640 And we should debate and allow the best ideas to win.

00:47:12.100 That's what it means to live in a pluralistic society.

00:47:14.200 Not enforcing secularism, which is not a neutral worldview on all of our curriculum and all

00:47:20.040 of our laws.

00:47:21.720 Secularism also has consequences. 0.59

00:47:23.480 Secularism also has dogmas.

00:47:25.300 Secularism also has a belief system.

00:47:27.060 But in a pluralistic society, we have people with a lot of different worldviews, and we

00:47:32.380 have to debate which worldview is best, which laws are best, which values are best, which

00:47:37.500 curriculum is best.

00:47:39.140 That's what it means to live in a pluralistic society.

00:47:41.840 It doesn't mean trying to remove all traces of Christianity from public life.

00:47:47.120 And I'm afraid that this accusation of Christian nationalism is simply trying to do that.

00:47:54.240 The problem with removing any idea of the Bible or any idea of God from our public life

00:47:59.880 is then you have no basis for God-given rights.

00:48:03.960 You have no basis for saying that we were all created equally by our creator with certain

00:48:08.900 inalienable rights, among them being life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness.

00:48:11.580 You don't have a basis for that anymore.

00:48:13.280 You don't have a transcendent objective basis for right and wrong, for why murder is wrong,

00:48:16.980 for why theft is wrong.

00:48:18.800 You don't have a great moral lawgiver anymore.

00:48:21.120 You no longer have at least a deistic, theistic foundation of where our rights come from, what

00:48:27.560 our laws should be, when life begins, what is a male, what is a female. 0.93

00:48:32.540 Everything becomes confusing.

00:48:34.200 Remember, secularism is not a neutral worldview.

00:48:37.920 So yes and amen to the criticism of Christian nationalism that says that America is God's chosen 0.97

00:48:46.840 land and that all the biblical prophecies point to it.

00:48:50.300 Yes and amen to criticism of progressive Christianity, which basically says that we also are going

00:48:55.540 to create some kind of heaven here on earth.

00:48:58.260 God's kingdom come through socialism.

00:49:00.800 That is also wrong.

00:49:03.320 Anyone that tries to say that God's kingdom is going to be brought here on earth by the

00:49:07.600 politicians that we vote for or our political activism is wrong.

00:49:13.620 Quite frankly, people on the right and the left do that, and we should reject those.

00:49:19.760 But I do not agree with condemnation of Christians trying to influence the world in which they

00:49:27.020 occupy with their biblical worldview.

00:49:30.500 Seculars have no problem influencing the spheres that they occupy with their worldview. 0.92

00:49:34.620 Progressives have no problem with influencing the spheres that they occupy with their worldview.

00:49:39.420 And I just want to point out, and I really have to finish, but I just want to point out also

00:49:45.600 that there is hardly ever any criticism of people on the left using Christianity or fusing

00:49:52.640 Christianity with civic life on their end. 0.67

00:49:55.720 And I just want to play you a short little clip of Biden's inauguration last week doing just that.

00:50:01.960 Amazing grace, how sweet the sound.

00:50:13.120 Scripture tells us to envision that everyone shall sit under their own vine and fig tree,

00:50:19.180 and no one shall make them afraid.

00:50:21.460 And I promise you this, as the Bible says, weeping may endure for a night, but joy cometh in the morning.

00:50:30.380 We will get through this together.

00:50:33.860 And I'm totally fine with that.

00:50:35.980 Like, I'm fine with that.

00:50:37.380 You know, Biden says he's a Catholic.

00:50:38.900 Now, I'm not a Catholic, but I have it on good authority that from the Catholics I know

00:50:45.620 that you can't actually be considered a faithful Catholic and be pro-abortion.

00:50:49.620 I mean, he's pro-access to abortion through all nine months paid for by the taxpayer.

00:50:55.020 The Catholic friends that I have say that it is impossible to be in good standing with the 0.99

00:50:58.680 Catholic Church and to have that kind of view.

00:51:02.480 People say that he is a very devout Catholic.

00:51:07.100 Again, I'm not a Catholic, and so I can't speak to that.

00:51:10.880 I do know that he was denied the Eucharist.

00:51:14.020 I think it was at a mass in South Carolina because of his stance on abortion.

00:51:20.100 I mean, he has been very wishy-washy on all of his moral views, like politicians typically are.

00:51:26.280 But I don't have any problem with using Bible verses and singing Amazing Grace in the inauguration.

00:51:33.620 I think that's all well and good.

00:51:35.360 But if you're saying that Christian nationalism is the fusing of Christian symbolism or Christianity

00:51:40.920 with American civic life or trying to influence American civic life with Christianity,

00:51:47.080 then how is this not Christian nationalism?

00:51:49.200 How is AOC or someone on the left saying,

00:51:51.880 oh, you know, you have to be a socialist or you have to believe in the Green New Deal

00:51:54.960 because Jesus tells us to care for the poor.

00:51:57.520 People who claim that Jesus is a socialist and that's why we should have XYZ legislation.

00:52:02.540 How is that not Christian nationalism? 0.73

00:52:04.020 Why is it only conservative Christians who want to influence the spheres in which they occupy 0.99

00:52:08.840 or want to influence legislation or want to influence civic life with the Bible?

00:52:12.820 Why are they only Christian nationalists? 0.91

00:52:15.400 So there's a lot of hypocrisy there. 0.90

00:52:17.240 We have to have some consistency.

00:52:18.960 Again, I don't have any problem with the Biden administration using this.

00:52:22.800 Now, do I think it's hypocritical? 0.93

00:52:24.880 In some ways, I thought that Trump using Christian symbolism was hypocritical too

00:52:28.720 because I'm not sure that he knows anything about the Bible or Christianity whatsoever. 0.86

00:52:35.020 But for people who are so dogmatically and militantly, this administration,

00:52:40.160 secular in their beliefs about when life begins, their beliefs about abortion,

00:52:43.540 their beliefs about religious liberty, their beliefs about men and women and biology,

00:52:48.920 they are so militantly secular and leftist in those things to then use Christian symbolism.

00:52:54.380 I guess that's the kind of Christian nationalism that people on the left think is fine.

00:52:59.080 Like, I guess that's the acceptable form of Christianity when it manifests itself 0.90

00:53:03.820 in strictly leftist and secular ways. 0.57

00:53:08.140 I think we got to avoid that hypocrisy.

00:53:10.540 So for everyone on the left who says Christian nationalism is going to be held to account,

00:53:15.300 tell me what you mean.

00:53:17.100 Tell me how it's different than what happened at the inauguration.

00:53:19.920 Tell me exactly what you mean by Christian nationalism, exactly what it looks like

00:53:26.580 and exactly who perpetuates it.

00:53:28.440 It can't just be every Christian conservative.

00:53:30.800 We might be able to get on the same page about what it means,

00:53:33.520 and if so, we can stand up against it together.

00:53:36.540 But if you're misapplying these vague definitions because you think it puts you on the right side

00:53:41.680 of history, as Lecrae said about himself being on the right side of history,

00:53:45.880 which we could get into that whole thing, but we won't,

00:53:48.220 that I think you need to take a step back and be very careful about the accusations

00:53:53.960 that you're leveling against people.

00:53:56.240 And if you can't define Christian nationalism,

00:53:58.160 then you don't need to be engaging in any debates about it.

00:54:01.840 And if you also can't define critical race theory,

00:54:04.280 then you don't need to be engaging in any debates on it,

00:54:07.180 whether you're being accused of it or whether you're accusing someone else of it.

00:54:10.380 Let's all take as many pains as possible to define our terms and to be as specific as possible.

00:54:15.260 Okay, I gotta go.

00:54:17.960 I will talk to you guys tomorrow.

Relatable with Allie Beth Stuckey - January 25, 2021

Ep 357 ｜ Taking Cara Babies Gets Canceled & Christian Nationalism Becomes a Scapegoat

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