Relatable with Allie Beth Stuckey - Ep 380 ｜ Pastor James Coates Imprisoned： Persecution or Ploy？｜ Guest： Erin Coates

00:00:00.000 Hey guys, welcome to Relatable.

00:00:10.760 Happy Thursday.

00:00:11.840 Today I am talking to Erin Coates, the wife of Alberta Pastor James Coates.

00:00:17.220 He is the pastor of Grace Life Church in Canada.

00:00:20.480 He is currently in jail in a form of solitary confinement because he refused to heed government

00:00:26.900 edicts and restricting the capacity of his church to 15%.

00:00:31.100 He simply believes that according to scripture, his responsibility is to Christ and not to

00:00:38.140 the government.

00:00:38.860 And that part of that responsibility is making sure that as many people as possible can hear

00:00:45.000 the gospel and to congregate with believers in person.

00:00:49.120 And so in order to properly and biblically shepherd his flock, he could not, in good conscience,

00:00:56.040 heed those government restrictions.

00:00:58.200 And for that, he is in jail.

00:01:00.020 And so we are going to talk to his wife, Erin Coates.

00:01:02.920 She is going to fill in some of the details on this situation.

00:01:06.500 She's going to tell us how we can support them and how we can pray for them and give us some

00:01:11.520 updates in what's going on.

00:01:14.140 You are going to be extremely encouraged by her faith, by her faithfulness, the faithfulness

00:01:19.560 of her husband, James.

00:01:21.640 Um, you're going to be uplifted by her testimony.

00:01:25.420 Now, if you're someone, a Christian who maybe has heard about the situation and you have kind

00:01:30.860 of looked the other direction and said, you know what, um, this isn't real persecution.

00:01:35.540 This is just, uh, someone trying to be a martyr or trying to get media attention or trying to,

00:01:41.900 you know, uh, fan the flames of conservative outrage about government lockdowns, or you have

00:01:48.520 clamored to try to clarify why he is not actually being persecuted for his faith, but he is actually

00:01:55.320 just, you know, serving the, the just punishment, uh, for violating the government's orders on COVID

00:02:02.800 restrictions. I encourage you to listen to this and to listen to her interview as openly and as

00:02:10.400 graciously as you possibly can. Something that's amazing to me is that in this time of listening

00:02:18.160 and learning that we are constantly told that we have to do, we have to heed people's lived

00:02:23.100 experiences and almost elevate them to absolute truth. When it comes to a brother in Christ, when it

00:02:28.540 comes to a pastor in Canada who is being jailed because he wanted to operate his church at full

00:02:33.600 capacity so he could be a responsible steward of the gospel that with which God has entrusted him

00:02:41.260 and make sure as many people as possible heard that gospel, uh, within the walls of his church that

00:02:47.260 so many professing Christians are slow to listen and are quick to speak to are quick to delegitimize, 0.51

00:02:54.420 to belittle, to invalidate, so quick to anger, quick to defensiveness. I actually saw a Christian 0.67

00:03:02.160 on social media say that she was embarrassed by this situation. This is a person that is a Christian.

00:03:08.240 I'm not questioning that person's salvation. I am questioning that person's discernment and that

00:03:13.300 questions or that, uh, that person's judgment in this particular situation. As I will talk about with

00:03:20.380 Aaron, we need to have a better understanding of what persecution actually looks like, especially

00:03:26.020 in our part of the world where we are so used to enjoying so many freedoms, uh, so much flexibility

00:03:33.120 in what we can say, what we can believe, what we can preach, where we can speak and, and all of these

00:03:39.680 things, uh, that might be shifting. And so we need to understand what hardship, what persecution

00:03:46.860 actually looks like. And we have to look to the example of someone like James Coates as a way to

00:03:54.500 stand firm in his responsibility that the Lord has given him, not as someone who is trying to, um,

00:04:02.160 just be a martyr for his own cause. I don't think that's the, the graciousness with which we should

00:04:07.940 regard fellow or the lack of graciousness, uh, that we need to use in regarding, uh, a fellow,

00:04:16.860 uh, Christian. I think that we need to be, uh, much quicker to give the benefit of the doubt and

00:04:23.940 you are going to be encouraged, uh, by Aaron's faith and you're going to be encouraged by the

00:04:29.560 faith of pastor James Coates as well. Um, after it, I'm going to talk about a few more things.

00:04:35.780 This is not going to be an episode about the news or an episode about politics, but we're just going

00:04:40.980 to give some encouragement and remind us of that, uh, which is true. And I know a lot of you guys are

00:04:46.760 kind of hungry for this right now because there's so much insanity and so much stupidity and craziness 1.00

00:04:52.100 and chaos going on in the world. A lot of you want to take a break from politics and I can totally 0.99

00:04:56.880 sympathize with that because me too. Uh, but this particular conversation is so important. It's so

00:05:02.960 important, uh, for believers to listen to and to be thinking about and praying about as well.

00:05:09.900 Aaron, thank you so much for joining me, for taking the time to talk to us. Can you first just give us

00:05:20.460 an update of what is going on with your husband, pastor Coates, um, and maybe fill in some details

00:05:28.540 that people might not know about this story? Wow. That that's a big question. Uh, so right now,

00:05:35.200 uh, James is in a maximum medium security prison, uh, for violating our health orders and holding

00:05:44.620 church gatherings, uh, without restrictions. Uh, we've done that really wisely. Um, and he is now,

00:05:53.140 he's still in quarantine. So he's been in quarantine for two weeks in, in the prison by himself. Uh, he's

00:05:59.480 allowed out of his cell for two 15 minute blocks a day. And he called me on those blocks if he can,

00:06:07.340 if he's not showering. Um, but he, he's in there, um, obviously because the, the restrictions upon the

00:06:15.580 gathering were something that violated his conscience, what he believes God has called him

00:06:21.600 to do as a steward of Christ's church and his sheep. Um, and so they, they put him in there.

00:06:29.840 Uh, they really didn't want to put him in there, but he was, he, they put him under arrest, um,

00:06:35.440 and then put restrictions on him to have to sign, uh, to leave the jail that he wouldn't, um,

00:06:43.120 have the gathering the way he had been doing it. And that, uh, if he agreed to these restrictions

00:06:49.600 that he could be out of jail and by his conscience, he just couldn't agree to them. He would be

00:06:55.400 abrogating his duties as a shepherd of Christ's sheep. And so he is still in there. And we have

00:07:01.920 today, uh, which is Thursday, March the 4th. Um, he has an appeal hearing today, a bail hearing,

00:07:07.880 and I put an appeal through for his conditions to be dropped before his trial, which is May 3rd to the

00:07:13.940 5th, which would allow him to essentially resume his pastoral duties until the trial without any

00:07:19.200 restrictions on them. Okay. That's where we're at now. Yes. So the kind of pushback that I've seen

00:07:26.460 on social media, both from Canadians and Americans, people who identify as Christians, they're saying,

00:07:33.440 you know, this is not persecution. He's not in jail because he preached the gospel. He's not in jail

00:07:38.940 for, you know, holding a, holding a church service. He's in jail because he violated COVID

00:07:44.640 restrictions. One of the COVID restrictions was that I think you can only operate at 15%

00:07:50.080 capacity at one time. Everyone has to socially distance and wear masks. Which of those restrictions,

00:07:57.000 um, did Pastor Coates say, okay, we're not going to do that. Or was it kind of something where he was

00:08:03.420 like, you know what, we're going to give people the choice no matter what?

00:08:05.740 Yeah. His job as a shepherd of the sheep is to open the doors and allow people to worship 0.93

00:08:12.620 according to their conscience, according to the word of God. And, um, we've done that really wisely.

00:08:18.000 We've put precautions in place. Obviously, if you're not feeling well, if you have COVID symptoms,

00:08:23.380 uh, we've, we've asked our, our church to live stream. We have a place in the church that has

00:08:29.100 plexiglass around it, where you can wear a mask and you can socially distance. If you want to come to

00:08:34.440 church that you feel like it's your conscience that you do that. But James and our elders just

00:08:39.440 felt like it was not their responsibility to mandate these restrictions, but allow people to

00:08:45.840 worship freely, according to their conscience. Um, their job is to shepherd the flock among them.

00:08:51.880 And so they, they left it to the people to make that decision. Um, I feel like there was another

00:08:58.100 question there. Oh, persecution. You know, I I'm just going to say what my husband said.

00:09:02.140 I don't really, I'll leave it up to the Lord, whether it's persecution or not. I think that

00:09:08.180 people's definition of persecution probably needs to be broadened a little bit. Um, second

00:09:14.700 Timothy says that all those who desire to live godly and righteously in Christ Jesus will be

00:09:18.860 persecuted. And I do want to make it clear that he's not in jail because he didn't obey the

00:09:23.940 restrictions. He he's in jail because he obeyed the Lord Jesus Christ and his headship over the church

00:09:29.360 and did not restrict the gathering to anybody. Um, so when it comes to persecution, you know,

00:09:35.060 like we do have our big box stores open and there are thousands of people going through our Costco and

00:09:41.580 Walmart every day, and there's no restrictions on them. And we have, uh, restaurants are allowed to

00:09:47.960 be open. Um, and so people, when they say, well, you know, restaurants have these restrictions and

00:09:53.680 these places have those restrictions. It's, it's really sad because, you know, Satan doesn't really

00:09:59.660 care about whether a restaurant is open or not. He does care about destroying the local church

00:10:04.140 and he does care about destroying the lives of the people that comprise the local church.

00:10:09.140 Right. So, um, you know, when you look at what the local church is, she is an expression of the

00:10:14.940 blood body of Christ. And when she gathers, she's testifying to the world of the greatness and glory

00:10:20.040 of God and his worth to be worshiped. And, uh, when we come together to, to be a gathering,

00:10:25.680 to testify to the world of that restaurants aren't doing that, the church is doing that. And so

00:10:32.040 the enemy really seeks to destroy that. So I would just say, um, it's probably just a lack of

00:10:37.920 familiarity of church history and how things have, have worked, um, and how the enemy works to destroy

00:10:46.360 the church. So, but I'll leave that in the Lord's hands. I don't, I don't have to wave the

00:10:52.360 persecution flag. He can deal with all of that. Right. I wonder if it surprised you, the reaction

00:10:58.520 that you have probably seen from some professing Christians who are so quick to shut down any talk 0.98

00:11:06.820 of, of persecution. I really like what you said that you're leaving that to the Lord. That's not

00:11:11.880 your goal in speaking out. You're just talking about what happened and you're talking about the

00:11:16.600 obedience of your, of your husband. But there have been a lot of Christians on social media that I have

00:11:22.420 seen so eagerly and earnestly try to bury any kind of conversation about persecution or unfairness

00:11:31.520 or how Satan might be using these restrictions and, and, and working in this way to try to keep people

00:11:38.320 out of the doors of the church. Is that, is that surprising to you to see that kind of negative

00:11:44.340 response from people who claim to be in the same body of Christ? Um, yes and no. Um, I mean,

00:11:54.000 largely we have a huge issue just in regards to ecclesiology. There isn't, um, like biblical men that are

00:12:03.800 truly preaching the word of God that are qualified to do that according to first Timothy three are not

00:12:09.820 men that are growing on trees nowadays. And, um, so I remember going to the G3 conference a couple

00:12:16.960 years ago and meeting so many people that were at this conference that this is the only fellowship

00:12:22.820 and solid teaching that they're getting. And they kind of conference hop, um, because they,

00:12:28.880 they can't just go to a church locally and have sound teaching. So for me, this is just really the

00:12:35.160 fruit of, of people not being under sound teaching. And, um, you know, it's, it, it's sad to see that

00:12:45.260 people are being so slow to hear, quick to speak, quick to anger, quick to judgment, um, and maybe not

00:12:53.160 thinking, oh, maybe I don't have all of the information. Um, so, but again, you know, you have

00:13:00.360 people with varying degrees of sanctification, you have new believers, um, younger believers in the

00:13:07.420 faith. And so I just have to be patient with them because if they're truly, um, saved by Christ,

00:13:15.100 he's going to sanctify them. And, and, you know, I did things in my life when I was young, um, and even

00:13:21.340 things now that, that I regret that the Lord has been so patient with me to deal with my heart. And

00:13:26.740 so, um, it doesn't surprise me. There's a spiritual war. Um, so yes. And, and no. Yeah. Yeah. You're

00:13:36.540 right. There have, there have been things in scenarios that all of us have misjudged, or we have jumped to

00:13:42.440 certain conclusions that just aren't based on reality, whether that assumption has come from

00:13:48.260 pride or it's come from ignorance or both, all of us have done that. And so I think that you're

00:13:54.100 setting a good example and being gracious and patient and not, you know, getting into these

00:13:59.160 kind of quibbles or battles online, because I imagine, I think my propensity would be to,

00:14:05.940 you know, be on the defense and argue with these people that are saying, oh, that guy deserves to be

00:14:11.420 in prison. He's just being a martyr. That would really hurt me personally as a wife that knows my

00:14:17.080 husband better. He knows the situation better, but you seem to be setting a, a, a very good in

00:14:22.720 Christ like example and taking a step back and saying, look, here's my role. Here's what I'm here

00:14:27.660 to do. I'm not here to argue or to convince anyone. Is that a correct assessment?

00:14:34.560 Yeah. And you know, Allie, I would say it's because I know my husband and his heart that, that those

00:14:40.380 things don't bother me because that's just not him. And, um, I take really seriously the passage

00:14:47.340 in James four, where we're, we're being careful to judge and being merciless, uh, in, in chapter two,

00:14:52.980 where it talks about being merciless, God will be merciless to those who have no mercy. Um, and so it's

00:14:58.820 not my job to convince people. It's just my job to speak the truth. And, and really my, even in all of

00:15:06.220 this is not to, um, defend myself or defend James. I will let the Lord deal with that. Um,

00:15:15.220 we're all going to stand before him on a day of judgment. It's just my job to make sure I'm taking

00:15:20.480 every opportunity to herald Jesus Christ and him crucified as the only way of salvation. And, uh,

00:15:26.600 you just have a lot of people in darkness who don't understand, um, because they, they don't know

00:15:32.580 Christ. Right. So I don't know if I'm dealing with believers or unbelievers. So I just have one 0.99

00:15:37.440 mission. And my one testimony is the death and resurrection of Christ and calling people to

00:15:41.600 repentance and to believe in him. And when you talk to your husband, how does he say he's doing? I

00:15:48.240 mean, he's basically in solitary confinement because of quote COVID restrictions. I imagine that that is

00:15:55.000 trying. Yeah, that's really difficult for a man who's life is challenging his brain, especially

00:16:04.000 theologically. And he's so used to being active, uh, in service to our church and just constantly

00:16:12.120 learning the word of God and theology. Um, so this has been challenging for him. Um, and, uh,

00:16:21.000 yeah, to say the least, it's, it's been a little bit challenging, but he's just so faithful. He's

00:16:27.220 trusting the Lord, even with his appeal today, he understands, um, that God's will will be done

00:16:33.700 and that nothing can thwart that. So wherever God needs to use him most greatly, that's where he's

00:16:40.400 going to put him. And, uh, he desperately misses me and our children and grace life. Um, so it's not

00:16:48.620 that it's not hard. He's definitely had some dark moments. You, you have the enemy just seeking to

00:16:53.920 devour you in a situation like that. Um, but, but he just says he's, he's been strengthened and

00:17:00.500 encouraged by, um, reading the word obviously and praying and, and the letters that he is receiving,

00:17:07.200 um, that just brings so much joy to my heart to know that people we don't even know, um, are, are

00:17:14.360 writing to encourage him and taking seriously, remembering those who are in prison.

00:17:18.620 So that, that's just so sweet to me. Yes, absolutely. And how are you doing? I mean,

00:17:25.320 obviously I know that you take solace in, in, in scripture and in the gospel, and it sounds

00:17:30.460 like you're resolute in that, but I imagine they're very dark and hard moments for you.

00:17:35.140 There's no doubt in my mind that Satan is also trying to hinder you as much as possible because

00:17:40.800 you're using this as an opportunity to share the gospel, which is exactly what he doesn't want to

00:17:45.220 happen. And so what, what is your mindset in just kind of your, uh, disposition like?

00:17:54.520 Um, I truly am trusting the Lord. I, I know him, but I want to know him more. And I know that

00:18:02.720 whatever he brings into my life has been foreordained before the foundation of the world so that I would

00:18:07.860 know him, love him, obey him, and therefore glorify him. Not to say that it's not hard. I've had moments

00:18:15.820 where I've, I've woken up in the middle of the night crying and, and can't breathe. Um, and, and really

00:18:22.440 the first couple of days, just when the firestorm was blazing, um, those were really difficult days

00:18:30.440 for me, but we, my elders have done a phenomenal job of, of caring for me. And, and one particular

00:18:38.340 gentleman in our church, that's just like a father figure to me, um, is making sure that they're,

00:18:44.280 they're checking on us, making sure we're okay. Our church has just overwhelmed us with kindness

00:18:50.280 and care. Um, that's been a little bit difficult for me. You know, we've been at Grace Life for

00:18:56.020 almost 11 years and, and are serving her. So now to be on the flip side of that, where

00:19:01.600 we're on the receiving end has been a little bit overwhelming, but it's just, they love the Lord.

00:19:07.640 And, and I see the shepherding hand of God in all of it. Um, but it's not that it's not hard. It is

00:19:14.720 hard. It's supposed to be hard. Um, because it's the hard and difficult things

00:19:20.080 that we see our weakness and the power of God on display in our life. So I, I, um,

00:19:28.820 just truly sense, I get so many messages online of people faithfully praying for us. And I just

00:19:37.020 sense the Lord strengthening me through those prayers. So I am so thankful for that. Um,

00:19:42.420 but this is something that both James and I need in our life. We're not perfected. We,

00:19:47.940 we have not reached the goal line yet. And, uh, and we need to be sanctified and, and submit,

00:19:54.100 um, with a gentle spirit to whatever the Lord brings into our life. But that's not to say it's

00:20:00.060 not hard. It is hard. Yeah. And, and your children, I don't know how old they are, but how are they

00:20:04.880 kind of comprehending and dealing with this?

00:20:07.260 Um, I have an 18 year old and an 11 year old, um, our oldest has really, um, probably taken it

00:20:18.340 the hardest. I think he has a bigger picture of what's happening, um, to his dad. And so it's been

00:20:25.260 emotional for him, but he also recognizes that the, that the Lord is at work. There's a bigger picture

00:20:32.080 to this and that he also has things that he has to learn. Um, my youngest has, has had some moments.

00:20:39.540 He definitely misses his dad. He encountered a conversation yesterday, just with a child that

00:20:45.180 was, he just came in crying and, and very hurtful towards him. That was kind of, um, spewing the

00:20:53.040 rhetoric. And, uh, so that was really hurtful for him, but every opportunity is an opportunity for me

00:20:59.820 to show our children, you know what, love, when you don't want to treat other people this way. So

00:21:06.800 when somebody else is carrying a burden or is hurt, it's not your responsibility to, to stand back

00:21:13.360 and, and evaluate whether it's a burden worthy of carrying. Um, but that we have to put on a heart

00:21:19.260 of compassion, um, and that we have to weep with those who weep and mourn with those who mourn, whether

00:21:24.220 they're not, they, they seemingly deserve it or not. So everything is a teaching opportunity for us.

00:21:30.940 We have to learn how to, how to love and how to love Christ more. So.

00:21:35.820 Definitely. And can you, can you tell people how they can support you, uh, what they can do,

00:21:42.860 other calls they can make? I know they can write a letter to James, but what else can they do? I know

00:21:48.560 there's a lot of people out there who just want to do something to help you guys.

00:21:53.660 Yeah. Um, I think especially if people are, are Canadian, be writing your local representatives,

00:22:00.080 um, be writing your, your premiers, um, and, and, and maybe even writing and calling our premier,

00:22:08.440 Jason Kenney, um, and just how this situation is just breaking people and is not necessary according

00:22:16.360 to the science. Um, but my biggest thing is, is I think, start sharing with your pastors who have

00:22:24.300 opted to close the church, just the damage that the lockdowns are doing to you. Um, and how I received

00:22:30.700 so many messages from people that are really struggling to thrive in Christ. And when you have

00:22:35.760 them isolated, they are just prime target for the enemy to pounce on. And so my biggest thing,

00:22:43.220 especially if you're in Canada is, is open your churches to the glory of God. Um, and if you're

00:22:49.600 not quite there yet, take an honest look at, at scripture, at church history, James has two,

00:22:56.440 two sermons. Um, the first one is the December 20th sermon. It's called a time to stand. And then he

00:23:03.860 has one that he preached on February 14th on, on the duty of government, the role of government. And so

00:23:09.940 both of those are on the grace life.ca, um, uh, YouTube page and also on our website. Uh, and yeah,

00:23:20.180 just praying for us is, is the biggest thing. Um, you know, we are on display as a church and our

00:23:28.420 earnest desire is to be faithful. And I think that grace life really needs to be protected right now.

00:23:34.920 There are going to be people who hop on to our cause and make it something that it's not. Um,

00:23:42.640 this is about Jesus Christ Lordship over his church and whether the government can mandate how we are

00:23:48.420 to worship him as individually as individual and corporately, um, that this isn't really a freedom

00:23:54.580 fight for us. So I recognize that the fruit of what we're doing. Um, so just really pray for the

00:24:01.120 protection of grace life, pray for James's protection, uh, and pray for us that we would

00:24:06.240 learn everything that the Lord would want us to learn out of this. But I always just keep saying,

00:24:11.140 just, just keep obeying the Lord, just keep loving him, faithfully serve your church, uh, know what

00:24:17.960 your, your rights are. Um, I think as a Canadian, this has really shown me I've been negligent in,

00:24:27.300 and just knowing politically what is going on. What are my rights as a Canadian? I don't ever

00:24:32.900 remember being taught this stuff in school. Um, so just know that no church history, um, have a robust

00:24:41.640 and, and sound ecclesiology. What is the doctrine of the church, the teaching of the church? Um, and,

00:24:48.040 and maybe just be gracious to pastors. So, so as, as you talk about comments that people make,

00:24:56.700 a large amount of the comments that are negative that come in are, are not from pastors who have

00:25:02.920 to stand before the Lord and give an account on judgment day for the souls that have been entrusted

00:25:07.060 to them, especially for grace life. Um, so just be, be gracious. Um, this is a, this is a brother in

00:25:14.740 Christ that you are unified with, uh, and we'll stand before the throne for all of eternity if

00:25:21.340 you're truly in Christ worshiping our Lord and savior. So, um, just, just pray for that and that

00:25:28.180 God would be glorified and that the gospel would keep going out. We have so many opportunities, uh,

00:25:33.740 right now to share Christ and we want to do that boldly and we want to do that lovingly and we want

00:25:38.480 to do that faithfully. Yes, absolutely. Well, thank you so much. Thank you for being

00:25:44.300 faithful. I praise God for the testimony that he is creating and that is going out because

00:25:51.220 of this hardship and whether or not someone wants to categorize this as technical persecution, which

00:25:57.680 I agree with you. I think we need to expand our understanding of what that can look like,

00:26:03.000 especially here, um, in the West. The fact of the matter is, is that this is an opportunity that

00:26:08.640 the Lord is going to use because this is how he works to spread the gospel and to make himself

00:26:14.320 known. And it doesn't matter if it sounds like, or seems like the vast majority of people are

00:26:20.040 clamoring to discredit him or to discredit the situation and pretend like it just doesn't exist

00:26:26.560 or that he's just being a martyr. Even if it's one person who sees the faithfulness of James,

00:26:32.700 sees the faithfulness of the church, sees your faithfulness and that heart of stone is made by

00:26:38.740 the Holy Spirit into a heart of flesh, that could be the entire purpose in this whole thing. What

00:26:44.380 I've learned is that when God is doing one thing, he's doing a million things. Um, and so we can trust

00:26:49.560 in that. We can rejoice in that. I think the example that you're setting, um, of trusting in that and

00:26:55.920 hoping in the gospel is a beautiful one. And I do pray that this brings lots and lots of people to

00:27:03.020 the Lord. So thank you so much. Uh, I will be praying. I know the people listening and watching

00:27:08.700 will absolutely be praying. Um, and thank you for taking the time to come on. Thank you so much, Allie.

00:27:15.420 All right. I hope you guys enjoyed that conversation. I'm not going to lie. I almost

00:27:29.540 lost it. Like you guys couldn't see if you're watching it on YouTube because she was full

00:27:33.920 screen, but I was blinking back tears when she was talking about waking up in the middle of the

00:27:38.840 night and just crying for her husband. I just want us to think for one second what that would be like.

00:27:45.120 Knowing that the person that you love so much that you've spent more of your life with than anyone

00:27:51.260 else is in solitary confinement because they obeyed Christ in opening up their church completely in

00:27:59.380 obedience to what scripture calls pastors to do. I want you to think about what that must feel like

00:28:05.660 in those moments of just gut wrenching pain and heartache. And I praise the Lord that he meets her

00:28:11.140 in those moments that he is comforting her, but we need to take a good hard look at our theology

00:28:17.200 and at our worldview. And we need to take a good hard look at our faith. And we need to ask ourselves

00:28:22.680 if we would have the same resolve in that situation. I saw this, uh, I don't even remember who wrote it

00:28:28.960 because I saw it on Instagram and I thought it was interesting that, uh, very many Christians are,

00:28:33.840 are quick to kind of justify someone like Ravi Zacharias or, uh, when any leader makes a mistake

00:28:41.460 that amounts to a great moral failure or they're accused of a moral failure, Christians are so 1.00

00:28:47.260 quick to say, well, you know, he was just a fallen man and he was just sinful. We're all sinners.

00:28:52.260 We have to give them grace, which of course is true. But when it comes to someone like Pastor James

00:28:57.120 Coates, some of those same Christians are saying, oh no, no, no, no, no. He's just someone who just 0.96

00:29:02.720 wants attention. Uh, no, we need to kind of cast him off to the side and condemn him as someone who

00:29:07.920 is not really genuine. This is not about the gospel. This is not about persecution. It's just about

00:29:12.340 becoming some kind of martyred celebrity. And so we give the benefit of the doubt to these teachers

00:29:18.820 who have committed egregious moral failures, but we don't give the benefit of the doubt to teachers

00:29:24.720 who are being put in jail for their obedience to Christ. And that is what is going on with James

00:29:30.400 Coates. It is for his obedience and wanting to preach to as many people as possible in person

00:29:35.860 that he is in prison. And for some reason, there are Christians who are not willing to give the benefit 0.76

00:29:42.680 of the doubt to him. They're not willing to empathize. And the person who made this, who made this

00:29:48.240 observation, which I thought was very insightful, said it's probably because most of us see

00:29:53.200 ourselves more in the pastor who fell from grace or in the pastor who had this great moral failure

00:29:59.480 than we do in someone like James Coates. Uh, and that's probably true. And I think we all need to be

00:30:05.860 honest with ourselves and say, okay, like, would we in that situation, like, would we, if, if we were sent

00:30:12.900 to jail for preaching the gospel, um, as for example, Andrew Brunson was when he was in Turkey,

00:30:28.140 if we were faced with that kind of persecution, would we stand firm? Like, would our commitment to

00:30:35.460 be, be to the gospel? I think we need to make a really honest assessment of that. Now, uh, our

00:30:42.440 perseverance and our faithfulness and our steadfastness is, is not based on our own personal

00:30:49.260 resolve. It's not based on our own merit. It's not based on our own good works or our resume or

00:30:56.360 anything like that. It is entirely from the grace and the power and the faithfulness and the steadfastness

00:31:03.100 of God. But I think that we can look at our actions today as a pretty good indicator of how

00:31:09.220 we would react if serious persecution came. So if we are unwilling to stand up for what God says is

00:31:15.520 good and right and true when it comes to avoiding awkwardness or when it comes to not being inconvenienced

00:31:24.420 or maybe being called a bigot online or being canceled by people on social media, I don't think that we can

00:31:29.940 kid ourselves into thinking that when real authorities come that we are going to stand firm in our faith.

00:31:36.760 I think we just need to be pretty honest in our self-assessment there. I don't think that if we find

00:31:43.200 ourselves acquiescing to culture when it comes to Genesis 1 issues, uh, like the, the definition of

00:31:51.620 male and female or what God says marriage looks like, or if we are exchanging God's basic definitions

00:31:59.800 of what justice is for worldly definitions of justice, I'm not so sure we can kid ourselves into

00:32:05.340 thinking that we're going to stand firm, uh, when the, when our preaching of the gospel, when our

00:32:11.240 representation of the gospel is really pushed against in a very tangible, in a very tangible way,

00:32:17.400 because you understand that the gospel is far more offensive than these cultural issues. The gospel

00:32:22.920 itself is far more offensive to a non-believing world than you saying that God made them male and female.

00:32:28.460 So if we are not able to even say what should be biblically uncontroversial, what people see as

00:32:36.060 political and cultural statements, which really aren't like the definition of marriage and sexuality

00:32:40.860 and gender injustice and all of that. Um, if you're unwilling to stand for those things, I don't think

00:32:47.740 that we can kid ourselves into thinking that we are going to defend the most offensive part of the

00:32:52.780 entire gospel or of the entire Bible, which is the gospel. There is nothing more offensive

00:32:59.260 to the non-believing world that says you are then, then that, which says you are, you are dead in your

00:33:05.020 sin. You're dead in your sin apart from Christ and you cannot save yourself. And there's nothing that you

00:33:10.920 can do that is ever going to be good enough. You're never going to be able to earn your merit or earn your

00:33:17.140 righteousness or earn any kind of acceptance before God. You can't do it. You are dead in your sin apart

00:33:23.620 from Christ. And only he by grace through faith can save you. That is offensive. And if you think

00:33:30.280 that you can compromise on all of the other things that the culture finds offensive and that you'll

00:33:36.900 stand for that, I think that you're kidding yourself. And I think we're all kidding ourselves. I'm

00:33:40.980 including myself in that. And so rather than be so quick to delegitimize what's going on with James

00:33:47.220 Coates, maybe we need to look to him and see that is the kind of, that's the kind of faith that we

00:33:52.500 actually need to be emulating. And what's also interesting that I see in all of this hypocrisy

00:33:57.780 is that in a time that we're talking about criminal justice, that we are much quicker to give the benefit

00:34:03.380 of the doubt to people who actually have committed egregious crimes who are in prison. We're much quicker

00:34:09.440 to defer to give them deference or to give them the benefit of the doubt than we are to a pastor

00:34:16.620 who is in solitary confinement in Canada for preaching the gospel in his church. And so that's

00:34:24.040 also very strange to me that the same people who say that they care for criminal justice reform

00:34:29.560 and social justice, that we need kind of what they would call restorative justice rather than punitive

00:34:37.120 justice, that even people who committed real detrimental crimes that actually harmed people,

00:34:44.540 it harms people's lives, and in some cases took people's lives, that those people need to be taken

00:34:50.240 out of incarceration in the name of social and criminal justice. Those same people, some of them

00:34:56.780 are turning a blind eye to what's happening with James Coates in Alberta. That doesn't make any sense to me.

00:35:02.640 That doesn't make any sense to me. And that is why I think it's so wonderful and so refreshing for

00:35:10.160 Christians to remember that we have God's standard of justice, as we have talked about so many times

00:35:16.000 on this podcast, replete with references and biblical support, that God's justice is direct,

00:35:22.380 it is proportional, it is truthful, it is impartial. The world's definition of social justice,

00:35:28.780 this collectivist justice that's based on all of these different identifiers like socioeconomic

00:35:34.460 status or race or levels of oppression or lived experience or whatever it is, it's convoluted. 0.96

00:35:40.800 It's hypocritical. It's duplicitous. We don't have to be on that constant hamster wheel of chasing after 0.97

00:35:48.240 wokeness and never actually being able to achieve it. We have God's standard. We have God's standard

00:35:54.800 in his word. And we don't have to worry. We don't have to worry about trying to fit into worldly

00:36:01.960 definitions of what justice looks like, of what right and wrong looks like, of what obedience looks

00:36:06.460 like. And I think that's what James Coates is actually representing for us. And we should be

00:36:11.980 praising God for that and absolutely praying for him. I just kind of want to end with this.

00:36:17.540 I feel your weariness. A lot of you guys have messaged me saying that you just feel tired,

00:36:26.480 like you feel tired of politics, like you feel tired of what's going on in the news. Every day,

00:36:35.160 something new is canceled. Every day, it feels like a part of our culture is crumbling. Every day,

00:36:42.040 there is something that we thought was sacred or that we thought was irrefutable that is now being

00:36:47.160 refuted or now being violated in some way. I don't think five years ago, we could have guessed or

00:36:54.120 understood what would be happening with this gender madness. I don't think five years ago, 1.00

00:36:59.540 we could have guessed a lot of the things that are going on politically and culturally.

00:37:03.780 And a lot of you are just tired. And a lot of you have kind of unplugged from the news. And I think

00:37:09.000 that's perfectly understandable. And I don't fault you at all for that. There are times when I'm lying in

00:37:14.980 bed at night that I don't want to deal with this stuff. I don't want to deal with this stuff either.

00:37:19.460 I don't want to talk about politics anymore. I don't want to talk about these cultural issues.

00:37:23.240 I just kind of want to pretend like it's not happening. And I just want to focus on my tiny

00:37:28.880 piece of the world that God has given me. And I think that there is something good and true about

00:37:34.860 that. I think that it is good to remember that we're not omniscient, that we're not omnipotent.

00:37:40.100 We don't know everything. We're not all powerful. We're not omnipresent. So we're not everywhere.

00:37:45.700 And sometimes the constant inundation of media stories makes us think that we have to be all

00:37:52.740 of those things or that we are all of those things. It puts us a God-like burden on our shoulders that

00:37:58.560 we were never meant to carry. And so I do think it's important for us to bring our focus closer to

00:38:03.500 home, to what is right in front of us, to being a faithful spouse, being a faithful parent,

00:38:09.680 being a faithful neighbor, church member, citizen of our community. Absolutely. But at the same time,

00:38:16.980 I hear something like what Erin said, that she didn't know her rights. She didn't know the politics 1.00

00:38:24.160 of all of this. She didn't know the legality of it. She didn't understand the political system

00:38:33.140 before this. And now she is trying to learn. And as we see from this conversation, our Christian life

00:38:41.900 and politics are inextricably intertwined. They just are. That doesn't mean that in order to be a

00:38:49.760 Christian, you have to ascribe to every single policy proposal or every single policy of the platform of

00:38:58.200 one party. But it does mean that our faith is going to affect how we understand policies and how we

00:39:06.680 understand culture. And I see such starvation in the church for wisdom and for biblical understandings

00:39:18.160 of what's going on in the world. Sometimes I get pushback. Why are you even talking about what's going

00:39:23.480 on with The Bachelor? Why are you even talking about what's going on with the Kardashians? Or why do you

00:39:28.240 even care about critical race theory? Why do you care about Dr. Seuss? Why do you care about all of

00:39:33.100 these things? You're just, you're being, you're being divisive. As if I am not critiquing the actual

00:39:41.520 things that are dividing us. That's, that's what I'm doing. I am trying to remind us of what the Bible

00:39:48.700 says is good and right and true when it comes to this. And I just see so many Christians in the same 1.00

00:39:53.600 way with the whole James Coates situation. The same Christians who are clamoring to discredit him and 0.75

00:39:58.620 discredit that situation are always so quick to justify cultural changes that are going in a

00:40:04.800 direction that we as Christians shouldn't agree with, or that we should at least be curious about

00:40:11.500 before we hop on, hop on the cultural change train. I see so many Christians trying to justify 1.00

00:40:19.720 secular cultural and social changes by saying that these are actually good, that it's actually

00:40:27.580 better for us to redefine what justice looks like, or redefine what gender looks like, or redefine what 0.58

00:40:33.380 love, intolerance, and right and wrong looks like. It's actually fine for the government to take over

00:40:38.260 our lives in this way. Actually, the Equality Act is, is Christ-like. Actually, it's better for us

00:40:44.380 to follow along this kind of insanity that we're seeing from the culture. And I just, I just wonder

00:40:53.840 why, I wonder why so many Christians are so eager to look like the rest of the world when that's the 1.00

00:41:02.180 opposite of what we're called to do. And I'm certainly not saying I have it all figured out because I

00:41:06.300 don't. I'm not saying that all of my opinions are objective truth and that they're always right in

00:41:10.880 line with the Bible and that no one can refute that. That's not true at all. Everything I

00:41:14.840 subjectively say is fallible and debatable. That's absolutely true. But I want to be, one of the goals

00:41:20.760 on my podcast is to be as slow as possible and as thoughtful as possible when it comes to cultural

00:41:27.940 changes, because we have to weigh them against the Word of God. You're not going to see me clamoring

00:41:32.620 for the discrediting or invalidation of the obedience of a fellow believer who bucks culture.

00:41:39.200 Like, you're just not going to see me doing that. And in that way, I want to be as understanding and

00:41:45.200 gracious and open as possible. And I hope to see myself in someone like James Coates rather than

00:41:51.200 seeing myself in all of the people who are constantly bending to the pressures of the woke mob

00:41:56.880 and cancel culture and social justice secular activists. And I hope that that's true of most 1.00

00:42:05.760 of you as well. All right. That's all I have to say for today. I am praying for you guys. I am

00:42:13.300 praying for this country. I'm praying for the church constantly that we are all united under the banner of

00:42:18.960 truth. I don't want the church to be united under false pretenses. I want the church to be united under

00:42:24.720 the truth of the gospel. Even if we disagree on some peripheral things, I want us to be united there.

00:42:30.500 Thank you guys so much for all of your encouragement. I do. I hope this encourages you. I know I said I

00:42:35.800 was done, but I have a little bit more. I hope this encourages you that the vast majority of messages,

00:42:41.340 of emails, of comments that I get are positive, are agreeing with what I'm saying. Now, I understand

00:42:49.140 there are millions and millions of people who totally disagree with what I say. There are plenty of

00:42:52.980 people who hate me and hate my message, but I hope that's encouraging to you that you're not alone.

00:42:59.320 There are thousands, I mean, tens of thousands of people who listen to this podcast. There are thousands

00:43:04.720 of people who message me, who email me every week, who are right in line with what you believe and

00:43:10.560 with what you hold dear. You're not alone. You're not isolated. And you would also be encouraged

00:43:16.400 by the emails of the messages that I get saying, hey, I changed my mind on this, that I once thought

00:43:24.900 this, and then I changed my mind. That's possible. A lot of you say you don't think it's possible to

00:43:29.960 change culture. You don't think it's possible to change people's minds. I get emails every week from

00:43:33.940 people saying they changed their mind. There was one particular message that I thought was extremely

00:43:39.960 encouraging, and I thought it took a lot of character and honesty for this person. They messaged me

00:43:44.700 after I did the Dear Evangelicals for Biden monologue. And you guys know, if you haven't

00:43:50.980 listened to it, it's on my Instagram page, and it's from last week after we talked about the Equality

00:43:56.140 Act, I think last Thursday. Someone said, I started watching your video, and I was rolling my eyes. I'm

00:44:01.980 left-leaning. I voted for Joe Biden. I was rolling my eyes, and I was saying all kinds of things about

00:44:08.340 you, how you're stupid, and all this stuff. But then I kept listening. And I have to say, 1.00

00:44:13.320 you made me think. She said, now, I'm still not ashamed of my vote for Joe Biden, but I will say

00:44:19.820 that it occurred to me that you were actually talking out of a place of kindness and concern,

00:44:24.120 not a place of belittlement, and you made me think about some issues. I get messages like that a lot,

00:44:33.020 that I used to hate you. I used to hate your podcast and hate what you had to say. And then

00:44:39.420 something shifted. Something changed. My mind changed. My heart changed about something.

00:44:45.320 I get messages like that all of the time. And if God can use this podcast like that,

00:44:52.260 then God can use anyone and any podcast and any messenger in the exact same way. And I know and

00:44:59.640 trust and believe that He does. So I hope that that encourages you. I get my fair share of hate and

00:45:06.260 my fair share of pushback. Typically what happens is that you guys share one of my stories or you

00:45:12.620 share something that I post and then your woke friends message me and are like, I'm really

00:45:16.580 troubled that my friend is following you. And then proceeds to try to debunk something I said.

00:45:23.760 Sometimes they're nice. Sometimes they're rude. So yes, that certainly happens in people who just

00:45:30.360 don't think that Christians, I guess, should be commenting on culture at all. But the vast 0.89

00:45:35.320 majority of the messages and the reviews and all of that that I get are positive. And I just thank

00:45:40.860 you guys for that. I do not take for granted your encouragement and your prayers and your positivity

00:45:45.480 and your thoughtful critiques and your thoughtful pushback. I don't take those for granted.

00:45:51.900 And so thank you guys. Thank you guys so much. Please don't stop doing that. Please don't

00:45:57.180 stop leaving the positive reviews on this podcast because they do mean something and they do something

00:46:05.460 as well. So anyway, I just wanted to thank you guys for that and encourage you in that way.

00:46:10.580 We will be back here on Monday.

Relatable with Allie Beth Stuckey - March 04, 2021

Ep 380 ｜ Pastor James Coates Imprisoned： Persecution or Ploy？｜ Guest： Erin Coates

Episode Stats

Summary

Transcript

Relatable with Allie Beth Stuckey - March 04, 2021

Ep 380 ｜ Pastor James Coates Imprisoned： Persecution or Ploy？ ｜ Guest： Erin Coates

Episode Stats

Summary

Transcript

Ep 380 ｜ Pastor James Coates Imprisoned： Persecution or Ploy？｜ Guest： Erin Coates