Relatable with Allie Beth Stuckey - Ep 388 ｜ The Border Crisis & Loving the Foreigner

00:00:00.000 Hey guys, welcome to Relatable. Happy Thursday. Hope everyone has had a wonderful week.

00:00:14.420 So today we are going to talk about what is going on at the border and what is going on

00:00:20.380 in Texas. There have been illegal immigrants who have been transported to different parts

00:00:23.880 of Texas. News reports say that there will also be illegal immigrants that are currently

00:00:27.940 being detained at the border that are going to be transferred to different parts of the

00:00:32.340 country. And so we're going to talk about some of what's happening. I'm going to talk

00:00:35.420 to you about the Christian perspective of it. And then I'm going to talk to an immigration

00:00:41.260 expert who has been studying this subject for almost two decades now. His name is Daniel

00:00:46.700 Horowitz. He is an investigator. He is a journalist. And so we're going to talk to him also about

00:00:52.700 the kind of the COVID regulation hypocrisy when it comes to the unmitigated infiltration

00:00:59.380 and acceptance of illegal immigrants, even while there are still Americans who are being

00:01:03.680 heavily regulated as far as their behavior goes in the hopes of reportedly trying to clamp

00:01:13.300 down on the virus. So we're going to talk a little bit about that hypocrisy, what dangers

00:01:18.220 we think that this poses. And then also, we're going to talk about some legislative solutions

00:01:24.280 and then what you can do to hold your state legislators accountable when it comes to this

00:01:28.780 problem, because it is a really big problem. Now, there are a few three stories off the top

00:01:34.980 that I want to let you know that I'm thinking about that I'm going to talk about at some point,

00:01:38.820 but we just didn't have time to get to this week. The one story that I know you guys are

00:01:43.060 curious to hear my analysis on is the story of the 20-something man who killed eight people in

00:01:53.100 Atlanta. Six of them were Asians. Two of them were white. I think seven of them were women. One of them

00:01:59.940 was a man. And because we are kind of at what seems like a precipice or I should say a pinnacle,

00:02:09.080 rather, of anti-Asian crimes that are at least being reported, this is turning into a conversation

00:02:18.140 about white supremacy, a conversation about systemic anti-Asian racism. And so I want to talk

00:02:25.580 about that, but I'm going to wait a few days. There's a lot of information that we need to hear.

00:02:30.540 And I mean, social media on this, it is so incredibly toxic, you guys. It's so toxic. And I just want to

00:02:36.940 I just want to say, it's very difficult for me because I want us, and I wish we could stay in

00:02:43.640 this place of just saying, look, like lives were lost. These people were made in the image of God,

00:02:49.560 and they're no longer here. They were senselessly murdered. And now their families and their friends

00:02:54.880 are mourning them. And this is awful. This is terrible. What would possess a person to do this?

00:02:59.960 Jesus tells us that all sin, sexual immorality, all kinds of debauchery, murder included, starts in

00:03:10.280 the human heart. And so this was a toxicity of the heart, and this is terrible. And what can we do,

00:03:16.120 especially as Christians, to cultivate as much love as possible and as much help as possible so these

00:03:22.700 things don't happen? I want us to stay there, and I want to stay there. The problem is these

00:03:28.920 conversations so quickly turn from, wow, that was awful, which everyone agrees with, and wow, that

00:03:34.200 was terrible, and that person needs to be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law. They need to spend

00:03:39.140 their life in jail, or they deserve the death penalty. Of course, it depends on where you stand

00:03:46.360 on that particular issue. But everyone agrees this is horrible. Everyone agrees this is sinful. But it so

00:03:52.460 quickly, before the bodies are even cold, turns into a conversation about what we want to be,

00:03:59.740 what we want to say is the cause of this. So immediately, immediately, it goes from, wow,

00:04:06.240 this is really sad and awful, which we all agree with, to, well, this is white people for you,

00:04:11.620 or this is the patriarchy, or this is white supremacy, or this guy just happened to be a member at some

00:04:18.440 point of a Southern Baptist church who happened to have ties to some conservative ministries who have

00:04:23.860 argued logically and biblically against critical race theory. Oh, well, this is what that means.

00:04:28.760 This is what it means to be a part of SBC. This is what it means when you have churches that are

00:04:34.940 pushing the kind of purity culture that we've seen in conservative evangelical circles. And so you have

00:04:41.280 all of this confirmation bias, all of these preconceived notions that are being just put

00:04:47.480 out there without any thought whatsoever to the logical coherence of their argument before we have

00:04:55.700 even had a second to mourn what happened, to mourn the loss of life of image bearers. And so I'll just

00:05:02.160 lay my cards out there. It is difficult for me because if I correct the record on that stuff,

00:05:10.180 which I feel obligated in this role to do, if I say, whoa, whoa, whoa, these narratives are getting

00:05:15.420 out of control in the same way that we've seen over the past year since May, I feel like I need

00:05:20.800 to talk about the data. I need to talk about the numbers. If we're going to say this is a problem of

00:05:25.200 whiteness, like we got to look at the recent crimes against Asians and who has perpetrated them. Like

00:05:30.640 we have to have a conversation about correlation and causation and logical fallacies. If I correct the

00:05:36.200 record on it immediately, I am going to be accused of not having empathy and not having compassion and

00:05:42.720 not caring and being racist and perpetuating racism or whatever it is. And apparently the only loving

00:05:50.300 thing to do in these situations is to just not say anything, to just nod our head and to go along

00:05:55.480 with whatever accusations people want to make about whole groups of people based on the actions of one

00:06:00.500 person. And I'm just supposed to be okay with that. Apparently I'm not supposed to correct the record

00:06:05.140 because that's unloving and that's unempathetic. And I can't go. I just, I just can't go with that.

00:06:11.440 Okay. I just, I just can't agree with that. I cannot believe that allowing a lie to be perpetuated

00:06:19.380 or allowing assumptions about whole groups of people based on the actions of one person that

00:06:24.500 are not true assumptions and not true accusations. I can't believe that that's the loving and that's

00:06:29.620 the empathetic thing to do. It's this whole like gaslighting situation where something

00:06:34.580 tragic happens. And immediately the reaction from one side is to say, well, this is what you get

00:06:41.400 with white people, or this is what you get with men, or this is what you get with Christians or this

00:06:45.980 kind of theology. And then if you push back against that, you're the one that's called divisive.

00:06:51.040 Like you're the one that's called political when it's not me who made it political in the first place,

00:06:56.580 but it's a bullying tactic to say, nope, this is the prevailing narrative. This is what we're going to say

00:07:02.260 the cause is. This is who we're going to say is to blame. And if you push back on that, you're the

00:07:07.740 one who is callous. No, no, no. I would love us to stay in a place of our shared humanity. But if you

00:07:16.540 are going to lie, if you're going to push theories that are not based in reality, not based in fact,

00:07:22.200 then I do feel like I have an obligation to push back against that. And I'm just going to have to take

00:07:27.080 whatever heat comes my way. And so that's just my short, that's just my short take on the reaction

00:07:34.760 to the tragedy that happened. Like, I don't like talking about race. I don't like talking about

00:07:41.240 all of this. I don't like pushing back on the narratives. I don't like doing that. I understand

00:07:45.740 that I'm a white girl that is immediately going to be discounted. My opinion on this or my take on

00:07:51.400 this or my analysis on this is just going to be deemed a product of white privilege. I understand

00:07:57.900 that. And yet, what am I supposed to do? Allow you to believe narratives that are not based in truth,

00:08:03.800 that the numbers tell us something different, that the facts tell us something different?

00:08:09.100 We're just supposed to believe in headlines and believe in the mainstream narrative on something

00:08:13.640 and believe in someone's analysis of the cause of something because it's politically correct or

00:08:18.860 popular to do so. I can't be that weak if I wanted to. And so I will be pushing back against it and

00:08:27.660 trying to articulate as much compassion as I possibly can because I have all the compassion in my heart for

00:08:35.040 the people who were affected by this violence. I have all the compassion in my heart for their families.

00:08:41.480 They were image bearers. They have value. I care about murder. I care about violence.

00:08:47.180 I also care about the truth. And I will just let you know it's hard. It is hard to balance both of

00:08:53.620 those things, knowing that if you try to tell the truth or push back in any way that you are going to

00:08:59.420 be called a bigot, it's hard to balance it. I try my best to do it. It's never going to be perfect.

00:09:05.820 I'm a fallible, finite human being. I ask for the Holy Spirit's help in all of this, but I feel a

00:09:10.980 responsibility to you guys to push back on the ridiculous things that you see on social media

00:09:16.260 from the progressive mainstream on a daily basis when it comes to these kinds of tragedies. I do.

00:09:22.300 I feel responsible to you. I think you're worth telling the truth to. I do. And that also goes,

00:09:28.840 by the way, in the conversation that we are going to have today about illegal immigration.

00:09:32.320 Like, how do we balance compassion for people that we know are made in the image of God

00:09:37.000 with the truth, like with the rule of law, with the importance of a nation's sovereignty? It's

00:09:42.260 difficult to do. I try to do it. I fail at it all of the time. But just know that that's my effort,

00:09:50.400 that I just don't believe that going along with the most politically correct or the most popular

00:09:58.160 narrative or headline about something is the most loving and God-glorifying thing to do. I just

00:10:04.860 don't. So I'll get into the illegal immigration stuff in just a second. But I just wanted to say

00:10:10.260 that those are my short, just extemporaneous thoughts about everything that's going on on

00:10:15.760 social media right now when it comes to this horrific story of this man who murdered eight

00:10:21.100 people in Atlanta. He says he did it, by the way, because of a sex addiction, which we will also talk

00:10:26.880 about. That's going to be lost in this conversation, which should also be, of course, talked about,

00:10:32.700 but we will talk about on Monday. So all that's coming on Monday. We're going to have a long episode,

00:10:36.900 just like we did back in May or June. And we're going to be as human-centric and as truth-centric

00:10:44.280 as we possibly can in that episode. So just wait for Monday. We'll break it all down. We'll see what

00:10:49.900 the Word of God has to say about all of it. Second thing I wanted to just address quickly is that James

00:10:55.360 Coates, whom we have talked about a lot on this podcast, he has been released from jail right now.

00:11:01.440 I believe the charges have been dropped. They still have to go to trial. So there are going to be

00:11:06.280 things that are going to happen. But I really think that some of this, a lot of this has to do with you

00:11:12.080 guys. Like a lot of this has to do with people talking about it on social media. And I'm not saying

00:11:17.300 this podcast or any one of you or any one post that his wife, Erin Coates, put out was the thing

00:11:27.080 that pushed it all over. But I do think talking about unfair sentencing and unfair punishments

00:11:34.560 and duplicitous standards by the government, us talking about that, I do think that it makes a

00:11:40.560 difference. I do think that government officials can feel the heat of righteous indignation. And

00:11:47.880 that's why I say, I said this on social media the other day, someone was saying, like, how do I push

00:11:52.300 back on my kids' inaccurate curriculum that they're teaching at school? I said, find like-minded people

00:11:58.740 and raise a respectful ruckus about it. Like arm yourself with facts, arm yourself with the truth,

00:12:05.720 not just feelings and anecdotes. But if there is curriculum that you believe is wrong or harmful,

00:12:11.160 you need to be able to articulate clearly why and then raise a respectful ruckus about it.

00:12:18.660 And that's what I think that we did with James Coates. That's what a lot of people did. There was a

00:12:22.800 respectful ruckus raised about the injustice of his sentencing, being in jail, even as confirmed

00:12:31.060 convicted child sex predators were let go in the same sentence without any conditions. And so I do

00:12:39.720 think that us raising a respectful ruckus about injustice makes a difference. I think it made a

00:12:45.700 difference here, of course, all under the sovereignty and direction and purpose of God. So thank the Lord

00:12:50.440 for that. Continue to pray for him. Continue to pray for his family. And then another thing that you

00:12:55.480 guys have asked me to talk about that I was going to talk about yesterday, I didn't have time.

00:12:59.060 Um, uh, the bachelor. So after the final rose, you guys wanted me to talk about, uh, everything that

00:13:05.680 happened there. And there is so much there for us to talk about that. I, um, I just haven't had time

00:13:12.860 this week and we're not going to have time to do it today. If y'all are still interested in me

00:13:16.060 talking about it next week, then we will talk about it. Just kind of the lack of mercy, the lack

00:13:20.780 of understanding, the lack of forgiveness when it comes to the issues that were talked about there,

00:13:25.100 I think is definitely relevant. People always say, why don't you even talk about the bachelor?

00:13:28.900 Who cares? Well, millions of people care. And if millions of people care, then that means that

00:13:33.920 there is something to analyze there. Like there's something to look out there. And I just happen to

00:13:37.900 think that the word of God speaks to every situation that God has given us all we need for life and

00:13:42.480 godliness. The Bible says, and this is a part of people's life. I don't recommend watching the

00:13:47.280 bachelor, by the way, I think it's a lot of trash, but a lot of people do. And so if I can use that as

00:13:53.100 an opportunity to share the gospel and to point us towards God, God's good and gracious and right

00:13:57.880 justice, then I am going to do that. So we'll talk about that next week, if that's something that you

00:14:03.140 guys still want to talk about.

00:14:04.100 All right, let's talk about this. Just one more thing. Like if you're watching on YouTube,

00:14:13.720 you might see in the side camera, I don't know if you can see that my shoes are untied.

00:14:18.300 They are untied. I don't know if you guys can notice things like that, but some of you notice

00:14:22.340 like really small things. It's very difficult being as pregnant as I am to tie my shoes. So

00:14:27.100 sometimes it just doesn't happen. I just have to get out the door and not tie my shoes. I don't know

00:14:32.440 if any of you caught that. My shoes are untied, but it's okay. We're all friends. We're family.

00:14:38.460 I know that you guys hopefully aren't judging me for that. All right, let's get into this. Finally,

00:14:43.360 at the meat of our episode. So what is going on at the border? Is there really a crisis? We've been

00:14:49.220 talking about the border crisis for a long time. President Trump ran on that in 2015, 2016. Is it

00:14:54.560 really a crisis? The answer is 100% yes. It's been a crisis for a long time. There was a surge in 2018,

00:15:00.340 as I'll talk about with my guest. And there is an unprecedented, almost unprecedented surge

00:15:05.660 happening right now. Daily Wire notes Nora O'Donnell's reporting on CBS that 13,000 minors

00:15:12.100 are currently being held in custody. That is much higher than the 4,200 that was reported at the

00:15:17.060 start of the week. And they are being held in U.S. custody for an average of 120 hours,

00:15:21.940 far longer than the 72 hours allowed by law. There are also reports that are saying that there are kids

00:15:27.040 that are going without food at the border, that they're held in these, now they're calling them

00:15:33.220 holding facilities, but they're the exact same facilities that these kids were being detained in

00:15:38.720 in the Trump administration, except now there's so many more of them. There are less, there's fewer

00:15:43.140 resources for them. And so they are not getting the help and the care that they need. And so what

00:15:49.340 were called cages under Donald Trump are now being called holding facilities, but they're the same

00:15:55.320 things. But now the conditions are even worse. And by the way, those facilities that the mainstream

00:15:59.980 media called cages under Donald Trump were built by the Obama DHS. Okay. And so this is the same

00:16:08.260 problem that is happening under Biden and exacerbated, caused by his policies, which again, my guest will

00:16:15.380 explain very thoroughly. In a way, these things are happening in a way that were not happening

00:16:21.800 under Donald Trump because of the incentives that have been placed by the Biden administration.

00:16:28.260 You have seen, and we'll put the picture up on, if you're watching on YouTube, we have seen migrants

00:16:33.000 coming to the border to cross over illegally wearing t-shirts that say Biden, like Biden let us in. I mean,

00:16:40.460 this is a direct cause of his policy saying that he is going to allow people in. He's not going to send

00:16:48.440 them back home. And there's basically going to be, uh, no more, uh, no more penalty for that. Um,

00:16:57.020 the article says this in the daily wire, many of the children interviewed by lawyers in recent days

00:17:01.580 said they had not been allowed outdoors for days on end confined to an overcrowded tent. Look, this is

00:17:08.520 not border patrols problem. Like this is, this is not the, or this is, I don't shouldn't say that this

00:17:15.300 is not their problem. This is not their fault. Uh, the, the border officials are doing everything

00:17:20.580 they possibly can to help these people. The fact of the matter is, is that we don't have the

00:17:27.180 facilities to be able to properly care for all of the people that are now crossing the border. They

00:17:32.440 just weren't made for that. They weren't made for the number of people that are currently crossing. And

00:17:37.500 so I believe these border officials are doing the absolute best jobs that they possibly can to be as

00:17:43.180 compassionate as they can and to take care of these people. The fact of the matter is the facilities

00:17:47.300 just were not made for that. Former acting ICE director, Tom Homan said last month that the Biden

00:17:53.320 administration designed this border crisis. They're bringing millions of people into this country who

00:17:58.440 will now be counted on the census because Joe Biden overturned that, which leads to seats in the

00:18:03.960 house and electoral college in elections. This is power over public safety, the quest for power over

00:18:09.400 protecting American citizens. So if you're asking why the Democrats and the Biden administration do

00:18:14.980 not care about what's happening at the border, why they are allowing people in willy nilly, um, in a way

00:18:21.420 that is completely unrestricted, why are they re why they are reversing strict Trump policies at the

00:18:27.820 border, um, is probably for some kind of power. It's not for compassion. There's nothing. Let me just be

00:18:35.620 clear. There's nothing compassionate about this situation, not for the people who live in the United

00:18:41.440 States, not for the American citizens who live at the border, not for the people on the other side of

00:18:46.660 the border, not for any of the migrants. I mean, these are people who are being smuggled into the United

00:18:52.440 States. These are people who are, uh, being a lot of times smuggled by the cartel. We've already talked

00:18:59.820 about the amount of the number of rapes and sexual assault that happen at the border, how dangerous

00:19:06.120 this is for unaccompanied minors. And when you provide these kinds of incentives and when you

00:19:11.560 don't disincentivize illegal crossings, you get higher deaths of migrants. This is not safe. This is

00:19:19.200 not compassionate for anyone. A strict border policy is compassionate border policy. The Daily Wire also

00:19:28.120 reports. The DHS says that U.S. is on pace for the highest number of illegal border crossings in 20

00:19:34.080 years. The border situation is difficult. Uh, the typical Democrat talking point, uh, blames the ongoing

00:19:41.300 child migrant issue on the Trump administration's immigration policies. That's what we've heard

00:19:45.220 Biden's press secretary say, which turned away vulnerable children, forcing them to remain in Mexico

00:19:50.860 while their asylum claims, uh, were processed. But here's the reality. The number of children crossing

00:19:57.740 by themselves rose 60% from January to more than 9,400 in February. The most recent statistics

00:20:03.280 available say this is, uh, this is ABC. Uh, the overall increase is blamed on a number of factors,

00:20:10.320 including the economic upheaval caused by the pandemic in Central America and two recent hurricanes

00:20:15.820 in the region. U S officials have also conceded that smugglers have likely encouraged people to try to

00:20:21.880 cross under the new administration. And, uh, like I said, I think that there is something political

00:20:26.300 here. Like who passed out those t-shirts to the migrants who made the t-shirts and who passed out

00:20:31.620 the t-shirts to the migrants and gave them to them. Like whose PR opportunity is this? That's evil.

00:20:38.640 That is evil. That that's, that's corrupt. And it's exploiting these people who I do believe

00:20:44.300 are trying to come here for a better life. I'm not blaming the people who are trying to come here

00:20:50.340 because I believe that they are fleeing poverty. They're fleeing corrupt governments who keep on,

00:20:57.260 I'm sorry for my French, but screwing them over, over and over again, who care nothing for their

00:21:02.760 safety, who care nothing for their economic stability. And I don't blame them at all for,

00:21:08.360 for wanting to come here and to start a new life. The question is, does the United States

00:21:13.140 have an obligation to allow everyone in who, who wants to come in? No, I don't think so.

00:21:20.720 Of course, that's not an anti-immigrant stance. I do believe that we should have a number of

00:21:25.180 immigrants that comes every year. I believe in compassion for true refugees and for true asylum

00:21:30.260 seekers, but simply wanting to come here for a better life because America is a better country

00:21:34.760 than your country is not a right. That's not a justification for allowing someone in illegally.

00:21:41.300 It also smacks legal citizens in the face who worked so hard to go through the legal process

00:21:47.920 and do everything responsibly that they needed to do to become American citizens. If you do not have

00:21:53.500 a border, you don't have a nation. You don't have a sovereign nation, which means that your laws don't

00:21:57.760 matter, which means there are no special privileges or rights that you have as a citizen, which means

00:22:02.340 that the government has no ability to be able to protect those rights and protect you. And so whenever

00:22:07.760 someone says that, well, we just need to let people in because that's the compassionate thing

00:22:11.820 to do, the question is, do you think there should ever be a limit? Should there ever be qualifications

00:22:17.100 to allow someone in? Like, is there any kind of criminal background that could exclude someone

00:22:23.760 from admission into the country? Is there any possible reason that we should be able to exclude

00:22:29.660 someone from coming in the country illegally without a legal process? And if the answer is no,

00:22:35.940 then you're not dealing with any sort of serious person. This ridiculous argument, which has no

00:22:40.640 basis in reality or logic that America is stolen land. So we don't have the right to say who should

00:22:46.440 come in our country and who shouldn't. If America is stolen land, then virtually every country on earth

00:22:52.080 is stolen land. I mean, the history of the world, unfortunately, is a brutal history of conquering and being

00:22:59.520 conquered. Every people group, every skin color, every creed has oppressed and has been an oppressor or has

00:23:07.340 oppressed or been oppressed, has enslaved or been slaved, has been conquered or has been a conqueror. That is

00:23:13.660 just true of every civilization. And then to say that today there is no justification to having sovereign borders

00:23:21.560 and to being able to protect the rights and the safety of your citizens. It's ludicrous.

00:23:27.120 It's not based, again, on any reality. This is about power for a lot of people. I think a lot of people

00:23:32.720 think that it's compassionate. But again, there's nothing that is going on at the border right now or

00:23:37.520 with our immigration process that is compassionate. So what this has led to is actually thousands of

00:23:44.580 adolescents being separated from their families if they came with their families. A lot of them came

00:23:49.080 unaccompanied and taking them to places like Midland, Texas, taking them to places like Dallas, Texas.

00:23:55.160 And the local officials and the state officials apparently, reportedly, have had no say in this

00:24:01.620 whatsoever. Like they haven't had to give permission. They haven't told the public, hey, here's why.

00:24:07.760 For example, in Dallas, there are 3,000 reportedly 15 to 17-year-old males being placed in this convention

00:24:14.500 center and here's what's going to happen to them. Like, does the public have any right to be concerned?

00:24:20.620 And this is not to say that we think all of those people are bad or that we think all of those people

00:24:26.520 are worse than Americans. That's not the point. But people do have a right to be concerned about

00:24:32.520 things like MS-13. People do have a right to be concerned about like what is going to happen to

00:24:37.660 their community. And to say that they don't have a right to be concerned is the most privileged

00:24:41.960 argument that you could possibly make. Because the people who are going to be most affected by this

00:24:46.820 kind of thing, if it does cause, for example, if it causes any kind of uptick in crime or something

00:24:54.780 like that, I know that we already have plenty of crime to deal with among our own citizens. But if

00:24:59.320 it causes any sort of threat or any sort of danger, the people who pay the price for that are not the

00:25:04.040 rich people living in their gated communities. It's not the people in the suburbs. It's the people who are

00:25:08.740 already impoverished and are already vulnerable. Those are the people that you are hurting by this

00:25:13.640 kind of unmitigated releasing of illegal immigrants into the country. Again, there's nothing

00:25:21.400 compassionate about this. The Washington Examiner, family sending children alone across the border

00:25:27.000 in response to Biden policies. The families are exploiting Biden administration rules against

00:25:31.800 immediately returning unaccompanied children from countries other than Mexico, said the individual

00:25:37.100 with knowledge of discussions at the Department of Homeland Security. The policy has created a loophole

00:25:41.500 for families who have been turned away after they illegally came over the border and were pushed back

00:25:47.740 into Mexico by Border Patrol. Immigration lawyers told NBC News that the strategy presents the best

00:25:54.420 chance the children will be able to stay in the United States after being released to a sponsor in the

00:25:58.560 country, even if it means the parent cannot go with them. And so there is child separation

00:26:04.260 happening. And I was against and I'm still against true separation of children from their true

00:26:10.860 parents. The fact of the matter is, is that many times traffickers will pose as children's parents

00:26:16.480 to try to get across the border themselves. But obviously, they're they're not really children's

00:26:23.460 parents. And so in that case, I do want the child to be separated from the trafficker and to be made

00:26:28.260 safe. But if there is a mother and her child is with her, even if they're coming over illegally,

00:26:34.780 I do not believe in disincentivizing the crossing of the border by separating that true family. I mean,

00:26:42.800 I just there's it doesn't matter how against illegal immigration I am. I cannot stand with that kind of

00:26:50.420 disincentivizing tactic, that kind of punitive treatment. I just cannot agree with the separation of

00:26:58.020 true families. But that kind of thing in another way is still happening under the Biden administration.

00:27:03.600 So you just need to think about for a second, the kind of media hypocrisy that we saw. I mean,

00:27:09.000 I know people who voted for Biden on the Biden on the border cross it, the border crisis. Like I know

00:27:15.900 people who perpetuated that kids in cages thing saying that this was just this was a Trump administration

00:27:23.440 thing, that this is what it means to be a white supremacist president. And he is the

00:27:27.840 most cruel president. Republicans are so cruel when it comes to what's happening at the border.

00:27:32.240 No, Republicans want secure borders. It's not an anti-immigrant stance. It's not even

00:27:37.460 an anti-illegal immigrant stance. It is an anti-illegal immigration stance. It's not against

00:27:44.420 who they are as people. It's not thinking that they're worse people than anyone else. It's not even

00:27:49.240 saying that there's a higher likelihood among them to be bad people or to be criminals or anything like

00:27:55.780 that. The question is, is this good policy for the country? Like who does this actually help at the

00:28:01.820 end of the day? I believe that it helps no one. And I believe that every single country, whether it is

00:28:06.960 Kenya or the United States, has a right to protect their borders and not just a right, but also a

00:28:13.260 responsibility. I want to talk about this also from from a Christian perspective, because a lot of

00:28:21.900 people use, for example, Exodus 22, 21, that says you shall not wrong a sojourner or oppress him for

00:28:28.520 you are sojourners in the land of Egypt to say that that means that we should have open borders. We

00:28:32.840 should just allow everyone in who wants to come in. And that's the that's the Christian way. Well,

00:28:38.320 that is a poor understanding of what this means. And if you look at what it actually meant to be a

00:28:44.500 sojourner in Israel, yes, they were supposed to accept the foreigner, but that foreigner was

00:28:50.980 forced to acclimate to their rules and to their laws to basically become one of them. There was a

00:29:00.420 process by which these sojourners and these foreigners became a part of them in a way that

00:29:05.760 is not forced here in the United States. And so if you're going to use that as your example,

00:29:10.720 if you're going to use God's law for ancient Israel as an art, our example for immigration policy today,

00:29:16.720 then what you're actually saying is that you believe in a legal process by which immigrants

00:29:22.620 should come in and be acclimated to American culture and become a part of American culture

00:29:29.640 and actually follow American law. There's no justification whatsoever in the Bible for breaking

00:29:36.120 immigration law. There's just not. And in fact, a reading of Romans 13 will tell us

00:29:40.640 that we're actually supposed to respect governing authorities. We've talked about that passage

00:29:44.780 before, what it means and what it doesn't mean. And so we do believe that breaking the law in that

00:29:50.600 way is a sin. That doesn't mean that we don't have compassion for their station or we don't have

00:29:56.160 compassion for their circumstance. We do believe in accepting true refugees through a legal process.

00:30:01.080 We do believe in seeking and filing for asylum through a legal process, but we believe that

00:30:07.060 there's definitions of these things. We believe that there should be a legal process to citizenship.

00:30:14.020 And again, people who say that there shouldn't be, like, who are you helping? Truly, who are you

00:30:20.920 helping? I don't think anyone, and I certainly know that that's not what Exodus 22, 21 means. Saying

00:30:28.080 that we are going to enforce our border laws is not oppressing the sojourner. Jeremiah 7, 5 through 7

00:30:35.200 does tell us this. This is, of course, the prophet Jeremiah telling God's people,

00:30:41.160 for if you truly amend your ways and your deeds, if you truly execute justice one with another,

00:30:46.500 if you do not oppress the sojourner, the fatherless, or the widow, or shed innocent blood in this place,

00:30:51.960 and if you do not go after other gods to your own harm, then I will let you dwell in this place,

00:30:56.380 in the land that I gave of old to your fathers forever. So, of course, we know that America isn't,

00:31:02.360 or ancient Israel isn't a metaphor for America. America isn't modern-day Israel, and that's

00:31:08.240 certainly not what I'm saying, and I don't think that's what anyone who uses this is saying, but

00:31:14.080 also to use this in the sense that this means we are supposed to have open borders. It's just a poor

00:31:20.600 interpretation of the text, and it lacks historical context of, again, what it actually meant to be a

00:31:26.740 sojourner. We can absolutely have compassion. By the way, America accepts more immigrants every year

00:31:32.020 than any other country by far. So, to say that America is a country that oppresses the immigrants,

00:31:39.280 there is no other country that has shown more compassion and has given more resources to both

00:31:45.260 immigrants and illegal immigrants in the world. There's no other country that has done it.

00:31:50.660 But again, I believe that the responsible, compassionate thing to do is to guard your borders

00:31:55.200 as strictly as possible, to make the legal process for citizenship as efficient as possible,

00:32:01.500 and to disincentivize, inhumane ways, this dangerous and exploitative crossing of the border

00:32:09.440 that is rife with trafficking and corruption and drug trafficking and rape and assault and all kinds of

00:32:16.880 danger that, again, is not good for anyone. I don't think that that is how we love the sojourner

00:32:24.300 and love the foreigner by any means. Now, Wayne Grudem is a theologian. I've had him on my podcast

00:32:30.160 who has talked about this before. He has talked about kind of the objection to any kind of border

00:32:36.240 policy or even a border wall that says the Bible tells us to care for the sojourner. Here's what he

00:32:41.060 says. He says, I agree, but we still must have some means of regulating how many sojourners we allow

00:32:47.820 into the country and who can qualify to enter. He says a wall is the most effective way to do this.

00:32:53.380 When the Bible says, love the sojourner, therefore, for you are sojourners in the land

00:32:57.640 of Egypt, Deuteronomy 10, 19, Old Testament professor James Hoffmeyer has demonstrated that

00:33:05.060 these sojourners or resident foreigners in one translation were people who had entered the

00:33:10.140 country legally with the permission and knowledge of the country that admitted them. The unmodified

00:33:14.480 term foreigner in some translations is not specific enough to translate Hebrew ger, that is the word

00:33:21.920 for resident foreigners or sojourners. A foreigner who had entered a country by stealth and did not

00:33:27.960 have recognized standing as a resident alien was not considered a sojourner, but simply a foreigner.

00:33:34.700 And still, we are called not to oppress those people. I do not think executing the law to make sure that

00:33:40.900 citizenship and the safety of our citizens matters counts as oppression. We have to be cynical about

00:33:47.740 this as well as humane. And I absolutely think that we can be both. We also have to, I mean,

00:33:53.880 we have to think about the well-being of American citizens too. And that's not like people say that

00:33:59.720 it has to do with whiteness. I mean, America is one of the most diverse countries in the world.

00:34:04.200 When we say citizens, we're not talking about white people. We're talking about all different kinds of

00:34:09.080 people. We're talking about people of all different original nationalities. We're talking about

00:34:12.960 the whole mosaic that makes up the United States. We're talking about immigrants. We're talking about

00:34:17.680 people with different melanin counts, different ethnicities, and all of that. Citizenship, it does

00:34:22.060 not equate to whiteness. And anyone who tells you that is, again, trafficking in some kind of nonsense

00:34:27.620 of critical theory and intersectionality that just doesn't correspond to reality. And so, yes,

00:34:37.080 I think that as Christians, we absolutely have to defend the rightness, the logic, even the morality

00:34:44.580 and compassion of strict border policy. And look, we can do whatever we can to help those other

00:34:52.520 countries to try to stabilize them. The fact of the matter is, is that America has sent those countries

00:34:57.860 foreign aid for a very long time. A lot of those countries are simply corrupt. They are corrupt in a

00:35:05.380 lot of ways, and a lot of them are simply poor. And I'm not blaming the people who live there, again,

00:35:12.220 for wanting to get out of them. But America is the country where everyone wants to come to. And I don't

00:35:18.660 think just because you want to go into a country, you have a right to go into that country, especially

00:35:23.260 not by a legal process. And when people say that about America, they say that's bigoted. But if I said

00:35:31.100 that, you know, you don't have a right to just walk into Kenya and become a Kenyan just because

00:35:40.060 you say that you want to become a Kenyan, people would agree with that. They would actually say

00:35:44.160 someone who did that would be guilty of white privilege. And so I think we need to be fair

00:35:49.020 here. Like, I think we need to be honest here. America, like every country, has a right to protect

00:35:53.380 her borders, has a responsibility to protect her borders. A leader who fails to put the interests of

00:35:59.360 his country as a top priority and the safety of his country as a top priority is a failed leader.

00:36:07.780 It's not a good leader. That's not a compassionate leader. That's not a righteous leader in any way.

00:36:13.020 All right. And so that's just kind of giving you an overview of everything that's happening.

00:36:18.880 And I want to talk now to Daniel Horowitz, who is going to kind of give us the rundown on all of this.

00:36:26.840 And I'll just say, like, some of the things that he is going to say are going to, especially if you

00:36:33.420 are someone who's on the other side of the aisle listening to this, like, I just encourage you to

00:36:38.120 hear us out because he's like very understandably passionate about the subject, passionate about

00:36:44.300 illegal immigration, like hear out the points that he brings up. Again, this is not about being

00:36:50.060 against people. This is being against bad policy that we think has a bad effect on people. And he's

00:36:57.040 going to talk about this hypocrisy of COVID regulations and the kind of lack of regulations

00:37:04.620 that are happening in regards to COVID when it comes to allowing illegal immigrants. And this is

00:37:09.400 truly, truly a crisis. And he's going to give us some steps to take. And he's going to give us a

00:37:14.820 little bit more insight into what is going on. Daniel, thank you so much for joining us. I want

00:37:26.060 to get your insight in everything that's happening at the border and immigration wise. You mentioned

00:37:32.000 before we started this interview that you've kind of been focused on COVID, COVID regulations,

00:37:37.160 trends, things like that. But really, your focus has been immigration for a very long time, correct?

00:37:42.880 Absolutely. And really about 15 years, this was the first year I've ever taken off of it. And as we

00:37:51.480 well remember, 2018-2019 was kind of the Super Bowl of this issue when we saw hundreds of thousands

00:37:56.240 of Central Americans stream across the border. And I just want to actually maybe start there,

00:38:01.800 the convergence of COVID and illegal immigration, because I think that's really important.

00:38:08.700 I had a little bit of a different insight than everyone else did when COVID hit, because that

00:38:15.740 was only less than a year after the first crisis in our time, 2018-2019 at the border. And one of the

00:38:22.920 things I covered very closely was the run on the hospitals by illegal aliens. It was a huge,

00:38:29.160 it's a generic problem, even on the interior, it's been talked about for many years. But in 2018-2019,

00:38:34.900 especially during the January 2019 flu season, we had them coming in with influenza, scabies,

00:38:41.340 there were a lot of mumps outbreaks as well in some of the ice facilities. Lots of contagious

00:38:47.680 viruses were coming across, and local communities, local mayors would tell me they had to deal with

00:38:54.020 it. Americans had to wait in line at emergency rooms in places like Yuma and Del Rio in Texas.

00:38:59.640 And I was saying to myself, you mean to tell me there's no public health prioritization we can

00:39:07.080 make that say, hey, look, even if we take in illegal immigrants as a baseline, we're not going to do it

00:39:12.660 now. And it was like, no, you have to accept them in. They're all asylum seekers. Then fast forward,

00:39:18.080 we went through COVID. And it was like, Ali, there is nothing a government cannot do. If you say COVID

00:39:24.940 with a noun, a verb, and a command in a sentence, your life, liberty, property, gone. The objective

00:39:31.340 of alleviating the stress on hospitals is the number one priority of government. This is what

00:39:37.960 we were told. And supposedly, these measures were supposedly going to work, which they clearly

00:39:44.600 really didn't. And there were three subsequent waves even after they did it. But nonetheless,

00:39:49.000 that was their intent. And that brings us to today. And to me, what is so shocking, what people

00:39:55.520 don't realize is typically when we see waves of illegal immigration, it's not a natural disaster,

00:40:03.280 like a hurricane, a flood. There's a reason for it. They respond commensurately and directly and

00:40:09.320 specifically to the loopholes and the magnets that you dangle in front of them. That's what they will

00:40:15.220 take. And that's what the smugglers and the cartels will be well acquainted with, whether it's an

00:40:19.320 executive loophole or a court mandated loophole. They will cross people in the areas and with the

00:40:26.520 type of demographics that will best utilize that. We've never seen it so direct. We had it covered,

00:40:33.740 the border closed up. Because of COVID, Trump was turning people back. I mean, illegal immigration

00:40:42.320 should always really be illegal. And this is really what we should have been doing for years.

00:40:46.320 But we finally did it. Forget about this cumbersome process where you kind of bring them in and they

00:40:51.020 have a million different ways of litigating their way in. Just turn them around. If you want to come,

00:40:55.080 go apply like every other country does. Biden took that plug out of the drain and directly opened it

00:41:02.400 and said, no, now you can come back in. And especially if you come in as an unaccompanied teenager.

00:41:09.420 And that's really what's the leading edge of this flow. So then guess what? The smuggler said to the

00:41:15.720 families, here, let's sever off your 15, 16, 17-year-old boys and come in. And then there's

00:41:23.220 going to be a crisis. They're piling up. Then we're going to have to mandate and say, look,

00:41:26.580 well, they can't be without their families. So it's kind of a one-two punch. But to come back just

00:41:31.420 to finish this first point, think about it. If you're the Biden administration, there's nothing

00:41:36.880 more important than COVID, right? I mean, we could do anything we want to human beings. We could

00:41:41.800 put a mask on two-year-olds, toddlers crying on airplanes. No matter what, this is the biggest

00:41:49.100 thing we have to stop. Maybe you could have small gatherings at July 4th. We have to stop the large

00:41:55.660 gatherings, the movement of people. Well, Ali, what is the greatest large mass gathering of human

00:42:01.520 beings that is the most dangerous epidemiologically speaking? That is transnational migration because

00:42:09.400 you're bringing in people suddenly from multiple different epidemiological curves. So what we've

00:42:15.800 seen with this virus is that it's very seasonal and geographical. So we seem to be kind of done at

00:42:22.120 least with this wave. It's on a lull. But the winter spread happens in the southern latitudes a little

00:42:28.240 later. We learned this last year, the Hope Simpson curve. So if you're from Central American

00:42:32.340 countries, they're going to get what we would get in January. They'll get more in April and March and

00:42:37.260 maybe May. Suddenly, nothing matters. That doesn't matter. The run on the hospitals. I'm hearing there's

00:42:43.680 people in the Del Rio hospitals again. Suddenly, it doesn't matter. There's a two-tier justice system

00:42:50.180 in this country. We now have a government of, by, and for illegal aliens. What they do to American

00:42:56.180 people, they're not willing to do to stop illegal immigration.

00:43:00.400 So what I hear is pushback to that. And I just want to hear your reaction to it, because after

00:43:06.200 Governor Abbott in Texas, he said, OK, there's not going to be a statewide mask mandate. We're going to

00:43:11.920 open businesses. Businesses and individuals can kind of make their own choices. Of course, you got a lot

00:43:17.000 of pushback from the mainstream media, from Democratic politicians, Democratic activists.

00:43:22.820 And now you are having those same people say that those who are making the argument that you just

00:43:32.160 did, that, OK, we're bringing in illegal immigrants completely unfettered, not testing them for COVID.

00:43:39.760 And apparently, we're just not worried about the spread of COVID. People are saying, well, that is

00:43:44.780 just a white supremacist racist trope that immigrants are bringing in diseases, that they are,

00:43:51.560 you know, bringing in all of these, you know, bringing in these viruses. That's that's just

00:43:57.820 not true. That's the kind of pushback that I'm seeing on Twitter, that I'm seeing from people in

00:44:02.580 the media that, no, no, no, you actually don't have to worry about the spread of COVID when it

00:44:07.100 comes to illegal immigration. There's no correlation there. And to assert that is just racist.

00:44:12.520 So first off, it's kind of funny because I'm not into the racial argument, but it's actually CDC

00:44:17.960 that says blacks and Hispanics are four times more vulnerable. And that's why they're actually

00:44:23.680 downright having segregated vaccination programs to prioritize that. I mean, that's their agenda.

00:44:29.220 Vulnerable in the sense that they're more likely to die of the disease or die of the virus than

00:44:34.160 a non-Hispanic or non-black person.

00:44:36.760 So they're saying they're saying it both in terms of dying from it and as well as contracting it as

00:44:41.300 well. I don't know if that's true, but that is certainly I'm actually doing an article on that

00:44:45.580 today with the vaccination programs. They're saying that in Ohio, for example, they have

00:44:51.200 different counties that are mandating a certain amount of vaccines could only go to non-whites

00:44:56.160 and they have non-whites only. I think they call it qualified people of color could could come to a

00:45:03.360 certain vaccination drive. So it's actually interesting. I wasn't thinking of that until

00:45:08.720 you brought that up, but they're the ones who are making a racial issue. But here's the more

00:45:11.900 fundamental thing. This was the argument made more three years ago, 10 years ago when I was

00:45:17.580 dealing with this. Many of us were saying, look, you know, the vaccination rates are lower there.

00:45:22.160 They have a different standard of care. We were worried about kind of rare things that we had

00:45:26.820 more or less eradicated. Tuberculosis is a huge issue there that is is not so much of an issue here.

00:45:33.440 Any ice agent will tell you that they often have latent TB from being around them means like dormant

00:45:42.800 TB because CBP or ice often have that because they're around them. Mumps, Texas Department of

00:45:48.680 Health, it's still on their website. I believe today that Texas has a much bigger mumps problem

00:45:52.580 than anywhere in the in the country. But again, that was the argument I've been dealing with for 15

00:45:58.920 years. Right now, covid changed everything. It was all of us, regardless of whether we had it,

00:46:05.940 have symptoms, don't have symptoms, whether we're vaccinated or not. We are all suspect and we all

00:46:11.560 have to limit our movement, limit our gathering and have to be tested. So we're just saying to treat

00:46:17.920 them equally. We're not saying our argument is not that they have a greater rate of it that has nothing

00:46:25.060 to do with it. It's the same. But moreover, it's the argument, Ali, I gave you a minute ago,

00:46:29.560 which is very important. We saw this in June and July of last year. It's not that some countries are

00:46:35.740 worse than others. It's that they're on different timelines. Yeah. Seasonality and geography. Yeah.

00:46:41.400 So typically, I am very much of the opinion that the virus is going to virus and what's called

00:46:48.820 non-pharmaceutical interventions really don't help. And it's very natural and cyclical and it's been

00:46:55.160 proven to do what it does. But the worst thing, if you believe in NPIs, the worst thing you can do

00:47:01.260 is unnaturally bring in hundreds of thousands of people from all different corners of the world,

00:47:08.360 especially if you're for locking down Americans in America. You know, they're coming in very close

00:47:14.320 quarters. They're in their camps, in the cars. They pack in a lot of people at once. So the notion

00:47:20.660 that you're suddenly not scared about transnational migration, but you're putting on curfews within

00:47:27.340 American cities is indefensible. But then again, I guess it is all about their race and racial agenda

00:47:33.580 because, Ali, we saw this last year. You know, we are coming off of the greatest cessation of travel

00:47:41.120 and movement in American history. Immediately, starting May 25th, we went from having nothing

00:47:47.020 to having what they themselves bragged about. I think some estimate as many as 40 million people

00:47:52.200 participated. The largest, most ubiquitous mass gatherings in American history with the BLM protests.

00:47:59.860 So BLM doesn't spread either. Our argument wasn't that they spread more. It was just to treat it equally.

00:48:06.400 Right, right. And that's what exactly what you're saying about immigration. It's not that

00:48:10.100 they're special carriers or special vectors of viruses, but just like all human beings,

00:48:14.940 we all have the potential to carry a virus. And like you said, if we're going to regulate

00:48:20.280 American citizens based on the fact that they could carry and spread the virus, then why aren't we

00:48:25.960 regulating illegal immigrants in the same way? But it's not just that Biden is saying, all right,

00:48:32.300 come in, we'll figure it out. Maybe we'll give you a path to citizenship, but you can kind of stay

00:48:36.680 here. We're not going to turn you back. But there are also hundreds of adolescents. And you alluded

00:48:43.120 to this just a few minutes ago that are being taken from the border and transported to places like

00:48:49.640 Dallas, staying in the Kay Bailey Hutchins Arena Convention Center, are being transferred to Midland.

00:48:57.140 And then from what I read and what I hear, the local officials there, they didn't have any say in it

00:49:03.340 and they don't know what's going on. And there's just a huge mystery kind of surrounding this.

00:49:08.780 Like, what's going to happen to these young people? Like, I don't blame these young people

00:49:14.460 in particular, but what's going to happen to them? And how are we going to navigate this? And by the

00:49:20.240 way, why? Why is this happening? And has this ever happened before? There are just a lot of questions

00:49:25.940 and not very many answers when it comes to that. This is really the third wave of what is designated

00:49:32.040 legally by DHS as UACs, Unaccompanied Alien Children. Let's go through a deep dive with that.

00:49:37.620 It was 2014, 2018, and then now. And again, each time it was responding to a specific incentive. And in

00:49:44.180 2014, it was DACA. In 2018, it was California judges ruling that they had to be released. And then now,

00:49:52.280 it was going, again, harking back to the COVID stuff, Trump implemented Title 42, which is not

00:49:59.160 an immigration law, but a public health law. Again, I mean, if we're shutting down businesses,

00:50:04.160 shutting down domestic movement, so we're certainly going to shut down illegal migration.

00:50:10.220 And Biden directly took that off. What the cartels were told, so there's three statuses. And it's

00:50:17.560 important to keep in mind, they're not different demographics. They're the same people.

00:50:21.320 There are different strategies of how to cross over. There's single adults, there's family units

00:50:27.020 that have adults and kids. And then there's the unaccompanied kids coming over alone.

00:50:34.580 What they were told is that immediately they took away Title 42, turning people around for

00:50:40.380 the UAC. So they'll be let in. Family units, it kind of depends on the sector, and there's some

00:50:48.380 confusion about that. And single adults, they're still doing Title 42. So if you look at the data,

00:50:56.800 it directly reflects that. And what's funny is, so you think, wow, there's a bunch of

00:51:02.540 asylum problems that just affect teens, but not males, but just these people. No, it's a strategy

00:51:10.760 that the cartels employ where they basically exploit whatever loophole we give them. So it's not that

00:51:18.380 you have teens running around alone. Here's the important, relevant thing a lot of people don't

00:51:23.700 realize. Where this notion comes from that we treat these people almost like refugees, where we bring

00:51:29.660 them in, we turn them over to HHS, the Office of Refugee Resettlement, and they hold them. And in this

00:51:36.300 case, they don't have enough room because there's so many. So they're finding all these places,

00:51:39.240 and you're asking about the next step. The next step is they're coming in. They're coming into

00:51:44.140 Fairfax, Virginia, to Montgomery County, Maryland. I say that because the largest buildup of UAC

00:51:49.860 resettlement in America is actually the counties around our nation's capital. So that's actually

00:51:55.160 the border. What comes at the border doesn't stay there. That's what you're learning in Dallas

00:51:59.060 and Midland, but you're going to see that really in every state. And the thing about, there's a lot to

00:52:04.560 say about UACs. The thing about them is, in 2008 is when we passed this Wilberforce Trafficking Act.

00:52:12.660 Section 235A defines three criterion to be eligible for this program, and basically,

00:52:19.440 they're resettled as refugees. Number one, they have to indeed be children. Many of them are not

00:52:25.100 children. So that's another thing. How do you tell the difference between a 19-year-old and a 17-year-old?

00:52:30.700 I had a border agent who told me he had a guy there he worked with in the agency who was a

00:52:37.280 dentist, and sometimes he examined their teeth, and he was able to tell that some of them were lying.

00:52:44.720 And number two, they have no parent or guardian present in the country.

00:52:50.320 And number three, that they're victims of, quote, a severe form of trafficking. So it was designed to

00:52:57.200 mean someone grabs a guy, brings him across the kid, brings him across the border. So of course,

00:53:02.200 we're going to take care of them, right?

00:53:04.400 Instead, it's been used against us. It's a smuggling conspiracy used against us.

00:53:09.860 The families self-smuggle pay to have their kids smuggled because they know that's a ticket. It's more the

00:53:17.160 tail wagging the dog. Because we have that incentive, they're not victims of trafficking. They're self-trafficed.

00:53:23.500 And then they indeed do have family and guardians in America. They're not here alone. They're the

00:53:29.920 ones paying for them to come. Department of Homeland Security report two years ago showed that 90% of

00:53:39.140 them were resettled with other illegal alien families already here. So they're not alone. They're not

00:53:45.420 trafficked. They're not kidnapped. They really do not qualify for this status. But to answer your

00:53:51.380 question, what is going to happen is they will be resettled. And we could get into this as kind

00:53:59.880 of a longer discussion. The next step is MS-13. We almost eradicated MS-13 in this country last

00:54:07.060 decade. The 2014 wave and then reinforced by the 2018 wave has grown MS-13 and the 18th Street gang and

00:54:17.100 several other transnational gangs beyond the scale that they've ever been before. Because

00:54:21.780 remember, these are often very hardened young males. And you know, Ali, I cover crime a lot. I'm very

00:54:29.520 into that issue, criminal justice. It's not just Central Americans. It's any country. The demographic

00:54:36.200 doing the crime is not the 60-year-old. So it's not the 60-year-old illegal aliens you have to worry

00:54:41.480 about in terms of criminality. It's going to be those young males and they're getting, and again,

00:54:47.640 this is true domestically too, they're getting younger and younger on the degree of violent crime

00:54:53.960 they commit. And what's happening now, and I'm from Maryland, this is, it's all over the place,

00:54:58.820 Montgomery, PG counties, and then also on the Virginia side, because you have a very large Salvadoran

00:55:03.360 population. You have these teens that come in carte blanche so irresponsibly in such large numbers,

00:55:13.340 they have no connection to the country. They have no sense of purpose. And what it's doing is they

00:55:20.680 are the most vulnerable. Rod Rosenstein, of all people, because he was U.S. Attorney of Maryland

00:55:25.340 before he was in the Justice Department, he saw this. And he said, that is really where they saw

00:55:30.680 this recruitment. And when you're young and new into a gang, you really have to show your moxie and

00:55:37.880 up the ante of your violence and get more gruesome than anyone else. And we've been seeing this.

00:55:43.880 So when you see, you know, 30,000 teenagers, primarily young males reaching that age of criminality

00:55:54.580 that is true of every country, you're seeing the future of MS-13's growth.

00:56:10.480 Talk to me, you talked, you touched on this, but talk to me specifically about the difference between

00:56:15.780 Trump's policy regarding immigration, what was happening at the border,

00:56:20.900 and Biden's policy that has incentivized this. I know that you said that Trump said, okay,

00:56:27.800 you got to turn around if you come to the border. That's that's the bottom line. And it's not turning

00:56:32.640 around people who have actually, you know, filed for asylum and have been accepted. It's not even

00:56:38.880 applying necessarily to true refugees. We're talking about people who are trying to enter illegally.

00:56:45.440 Trump tried to deter that you're saying that the Biden administration has incentivized that.

00:56:50.020 That's why we're seeing such a huge surge in illegal immigration. And we're seeing this

00:56:53.960 transportation of thousands of young men to cities across the country. Talk to me specifically about

00:56:59.660 what those policies are by the Biden administration and what you think is is the why behind it,

00:57:07.460 because it's very hard for me to see the reasoning behind these kinds of policies.

00:57:12.600 Sure. It's truly shocking. But I think we need, again, a little bit of a background on the history

00:57:20.600 of this. A lot of people, when when they talk about the border, they get caught up with the manpower,

00:57:26.240 the strategies, the border wall, the infrastructure. And, you know, I was always of the opinion from my

00:57:34.480 experience dealing with really every facet of this issue, that it's not a manpower issue. It's a legal

00:57:42.540 incentive issue. If you ask them to come, they'll come. If you don't, they won't.

00:57:49.980 I once wrote an article, the best way to stop illegal immigration is by making illegal immigration

00:57:54.220 illegal. Right. We don't because, I mean, officially it is. But then wink and nod,

00:57:59.000 we offer all these incentives and bring them in and you have the whole court system and everything.

00:58:03.260 And the reality is there's nothing natural about this. There's nothing, you know, or there's

00:58:10.440 nothing specific going on now. There's no asylum, right? Say what you want about the Northern

00:58:15.660 Triangle, but it's a very homogenous area. You don't have a distinct ethnic, racial, political

00:58:27.640 minority being persecuted by a majority where you could disentangle a minority from the majority

00:58:33.320 like the Yazidis with the Sunni Muslims in Northern Iraq. You know, that's not what's going

00:58:38.200 on. What's going on is this. There's 84 countries that I have counted in the world that have a GDP

00:58:44.120 per capita lower than that of Guatemala. So if you telegraph the message that you could just come

00:58:53.480 here, I mean, it doesn't take a genius to realize there's about one to two billion people in the world

00:58:58.460 who would want to come here. And I can't blame them. They're kind of crappy areas to live in.

00:59:03.000 There's a lot of poverty. It's there's a lot of problems. And yeah, I mean, we recognize that.

00:59:10.220 But if you believe in that, you actually have a moral obligation to land boats and bring in a

00:59:15.100 billion people from all those 84 countries that have a GDP at or lower that of Guatemala. And at

00:59:22.520 least you cut out the middlemen. You cut out the cartels and the money they make and the human

00:59:26.440 trafficking and the rapes and all the problems that come on the way. I mean, if that's what you

00:59:29.940 want to do, land boats. But, you know, that would expose the absurdity of what they're doing. So they

00:59:35.040 don't do that. Instead, what happens is that Central America, because it's a land bridge and

00:59:40.960 they have such established smuggling routes and they've had so much illegal immigration for so many

00:59:46.760 years. So they want the more you have, the more you have, because then they have their

00:59:51.160 communities and family and relatives. So, you know, if you're if you're just from Madagascar

00:59:56.740 or something, how many people from Madagascar in the country? So it's not as enticing to come.

01:00:01.360 But nonetheless, they are coming a lot now from Romania, from Brazil, certainly Haiti and Cuba.

01:00:07.600 I could actually look at I have the latest numbers here from Texas DPS for the week ending in March

01:00:16.200 10th, which, by the way, we're catching about fifty four hundred people a day. That's an annualized

01:00:22.200 flow. If you extrapolate that of two million people. And yeah, I mean, I see here we got Romania,

01:00:31.300 we got Congo again, not as many numbers as the Central American countries. Venezuela is is a big

01:00:38.660 one. Ecuador, Brazil. I mean, you know, the left is really yelping about the Brazilian variant of

01:00:44.180 COVID. It's interesting. We do have a lot of Brazilians coming, you know, over a hundred a week

01:00:50.260 have been caught. So a lot of extracontinentals as well. So that's important to recognize. This is

01:00:56.200 not about, oh, my gosh, there are the people A are being persecuted by people B at this time,

01:01:02.360 this place. No, it's general impoverished countries will always people will always come here if they

01:01:10.300 can. If they're incentivized to do so. What kept them from doing that? There were three

01:01:14.760 things that Trump implemented and Biden took them off. Number one was, you know, he he had

01:01:21.700 multilateral agreements with really the four relevant countries to the south of us to say

01:01:27.100 that you have to claim if you really are an asylee, if you genuinely are, you have to claim

01:01:33.500 asylum in the first safe country. And by the way, the U.N. does designate recognize Mexico as

01:01:39.380 a safe country. So, you know, do you really want to come to America just to get a job or family

01:01:47.040 reunification? Or are you really being persecuted? And the proof is in the pudding. You know, if you

01:01:52.920 if it wasn't about that, you would claim asylum there. And connected to that was also that you

01:01:58.980 can't just have hundreds of thousands of people break in and say asylum. No. We'll take your

01:02:05.120 application, but you have to do it waiting in Mexico. So that was called the MPP migration

01:02:10.080 protocol policy, as well as the third party agreement. So those two together made it that

01:02:14.840 they didn't want to come because, as you all know, Ali, this is not about escaping what was in their

01:02:20.480 country, at least not in an individualized persecution. It's more about they want to come

01:02:26.880 to America specifically. They don't want to come to Iceland. They don't want to come to any other

01:02:30.540 country. That's where they want to come. Which, of course, is I mean, like you said, it's it's

01:02:34.380 understandable. But if there's not a process, a legal process by which by which they can follow

01:02:41.160 or by which they are following, then, of course, we cease to be a country. We cease to be sovereign.

01:02:46.680 We cease to be able to protect our own citizens. And of course, people so quickly say, well, that's

01:02:52.240 an anti-immigrant stance. And it's the farthest thing from the truth. It's actually about protecting

01:02:58.020 people of all different kinds, of all different original nationalities that are in the United

01:03:02.500 States, especially legally. Citizenship has to mean something. It should be that the government is

01:03:07.920 looking out for your rights and looking out for your protections. And that does mean securing the

01:03:12.960 border. I mean, we went from America first, at least try to be America first under Donald Trump,

01:03:18.140 to it seems like America dead last under Joe Biden. And unfortunately, this is this is a product of

01:03:24.500 that. And also, I think people forget that illegal immigration is not actually compassionate for the

01:03:29.220 illegal immigrants coming into this very dangerous at the border. And the more people there are, the

01:03:34.180 more the smugglers are incentivized, the more coyotes are incentivized. And the vulnerable, the

01:03:39.100 children, the women especially, are made victims through this process. There's nothing compassionate

01:03:44.720 about what is going on at the border under Joe Biden. And I guess my my last question for you is,

01:03:50.820 like, what do we do? People feel totally powerless. People in Dallas are like, what the heck are we

01:03:55.360 going to do? Like, how do we deal with this? What's your advice? Yeah, I mean, it's it's it's really I

01:04:01.760 think to answer your other question first, also, what what what what was Biden thinking? I think they

01:04:07.220 believe their own naivety. So in other words, sometimes when you put a promulgate a talking point

01:04:12.980 for so long, you start believing and they they're obsessed with these are persecuted people. It's

01:04:17.340 asylum. And no, because that would be finite and limited to a time, place and people. It's endless.

01:04:24.320 It's every impoverished country. If you tell them you could now come, they'll all come. And then

01:04:29.520 they're like, holy heck, I didn't realize that. I think they didn't realize like you have no idea.

01:04:35.280 There are millions where they come from in this pipeline. And I think that's what they're starting

01:04:39.740 to realize that we were right all along when we said that the whole thing was a scam. It had nothing

01:04:45.180 to do with with asylum. I think they are realizing that because I did hear Biden say, oh, if you're

01:04:52.540 planning to come here, stay in your town. And I'm like, oh, well, I'm sure that's not going to be

01:04:57.120 super effective. Well, it rings hollow with them, you know, unless they actually, you know, start doing

01:05:02.040 title 42 again and turning them around. So it will be interesting to see if they're forced to just

01:05:07.200 because it was done too quickly, not that they care about the border. But I think they didn't think

01:05:12.780 it would happen this quickly. Like it took about I'm trying to remember. It took about 12 to 13

01:05:21.460 months in the 2018 crisis to get to these numbers. We got here in two. Yeah. So but that happened under

01:05:28.000 Trump, though, which means that Republicans and Democrats have failed at this. Yeah. And I you

01:05:34.520 know, I mean, you remember at the time I was really pressuring the Trump administration to put to put in

01:05:38.440 place these things. And it took a year longer than I wanted to, but they got to it eventually. But that

01:05:42.820 really was was spearheaded by the courts. This is spearheaded by the executive branch this time.

01:05:48.240 But I think I think what's important in terms of my solution, my solution is going to be the states.

01:05:54.000 And I think just as a philosophical and legal background, I think you mentioned something about

01:06:01.480 anti-immigrant immigrant this and, you know, there's a lot we could talk about. And you're absolutely

01:06:05.380 right that you don't do them any favors. Obviously, you're empowering their cartels. They're bringing

01:06:10.100 in a record amount of drugs because while they throw the families at the agents, they bring in

01:06:15.820 the drugs. And also, that's where they bring in the previously deported sex offenders.

01:06:20.920 A lot of people don't realize on a typical year, this is from last fiscal year, just the people that

01:06:25.900 ICE arrested. And mind you, they don't have access to a lot of the sanctuary areas where most of them

01:06:29.980 live, they had a cumulative total of 6,888 sex offenses, 5,350 sex assaults, and 1739 commercialized

01:06:39.840 sexual assaults. Trump, over the last number of years, deported thousands of those people.

01:06:46.080 Those people are making their way back now. And what happens is the cartels,

01:06:50.840 so they have a business model where if you're a family, you pay about 5,000. But if you're a

01:06:56.260 previously deported dude, a guy with a criminal record, so the thing about you is you don't want

01:07:00.860 to meet an agent, even under an open border because presumably they're going to remove you

01:07:06.080 and maybe throw you in jail. So you have to cross surreptitiously, right? You have to successfully

01:07:12.660 evade, not just be delivered into their hands. So that's usually going to be $12,000. So they have

01:07:18.740 the, they're called suicide loads, where they throw the, on the Rio Grande River, they send

01:07:24.420 all the refs in, and then the agents have to deal with it. And boom, that's when they bring in the

01:07:30.320 really bad guys. The number of sex offenders apprehended just for the first five months of

01:07:36.360 this year is three times more than last year. And you got to believe the cartels have a pretty good

01:07:42.180 business model. So those are the ones we catch. You can imagine the majority of them we don't catch.

01:07:48.060 And I could tell you the number of gotaways. We typically catch about 5,400 a day the last

01:07:57.080 couple of weeks, just, you know, illegal aliens, the number of gotaways. These are the people that

01:08:02.340 through the blimps, the cameras, the footprints, they have ways of counting. And, and, and it's a

01:08:11.200 fraction of the ones that they really, you know, that, that really got away about 1500 a day. So about

01:08:17.300 maybe a quarter of the flow are gotaways. Wow. But it's really a lot more than that. Those people

01:08:24.040 pound per pound are much, much worse. Because by definition, those are the ones that have to pay

01:08:30.160 more to strategically be brought in because they have criminal records. Right. So here's what's

01:08:34.540 important. Texas has to step up and other states should crowdsource public and private funds to help

01:08:42.780 Texas and Arizona. Number one, Texas DPS, they are starting to do this. So what, what they tell me,

01:08:48.800 what border agents tell me is while they have to be babysitters, at least Texas DPS could fill in

01:08:55.280 those gaps to try to be spotters for them and get the bad guys, at least the bad guys.

01:09:01.640 Um, now look, ultimately, they can't really hold them for long, and they turn them over to ICE. And I have

01:09:09.020 heard that ICE is even releasing criminal aliens, because Biden doesn't view foreign national drug

01:09:16.260 traffickers and drunk drivers as really a crime. Like, so they have to have murder. Let's assume murder and

01:09:23.420 rapist they'll hold. I think maybe we could assume that I don't know. But that's where it's important for

01:09:28.160 Texas DPS. They need to, Texas isn't in their state legislative session. They got to push that.

01:09:33.440 There's two more bills, and I know you got to run SB 1254. Um, that's a bill by Senator Hall

01:09:41.260 in the Texas legislature to create an interstate compact with other states to start cooperating on

01:09:51.180 ways to deter illegal immigration. Um, I don't have time to get into it now, but I wrote an article

01:09:57.340 at the blaze, how states can deter and block caravans, um, on their own, the legal and moral

01:10:06.600 case for it. I quote a lot from Scalia on this issue. States have sovereignty, all things equal

01:10:13.060 as the federal job. But if they're working with the cartels to complete the cycle of a criminal

01:10:17.460 smuggling conspiracy, a state is not left to just die. I mean, you can't, you can't do that to them.

01:10:23.200 They have the right to push them out. We're not talking about states setting up their own visa

01:10:27.420 programs or their own system, but, but they have the right to protect their jurisdictional,

01:10:33.020 um, integrity. Right. So, so, and I think you're going to need other states and the, here's the biggie

01:10:38.820 HB 2862 have Texas build the wall. It is their territory. It's their territory. Um, this is

01:10:47.980 representative Slayton's bill. They have the ability to do it. I think, you know, if they're

01:10:53.340 worried about the budget, the American people would love to donate to something like that.

01:10:58.100 And the reason why this is so important is because right now we have half baked construction,

01:11:04.600 which is worse than no construction. The Biden administration, even if you oppose the wall,

01:11:10.460 you want to complete the infrastructure in the gaps and then walk away from it.

01:11:14.280 But instead of what they did is it's now worse than before because border patrol created, um,

01:11:20.480 access roads to, uh, to build it. You know, they had to have access roads. So you have a lot of very

01:11:26.360 rugged areas in the big bend in the West. They never crossed there. Never. Now I see they're

01:11:32.440 crossing there. It's unbelievable. Yeah. Um, and it's the same thing in Cochise County, Arizona,

01:11:36.740 very rugged. They're crossing there. Wow.

01:11:39.340 Why? Because now they could get cars in the access roads through the gaps because it's not

01:11:45.380 completed, but now they have the access roads. They're nothing but cartel roads that we have

01:11:51.340 built for them. Oh man, we got problems and you laid it out really well. And I know a lot of people

01:11:57.160 are worried, but look, like, like you said, take the advice that Daniel is giving us, uh, make sure

01:12:03.880 that you are holding your state legislators accountable on this. I know, you know, some people in

01:12:08.120 California, it's, it's a lost cause, uh, for some people, but what we are seeing is a crisis. It's

01:12:13.220 not good for anyone, for anyone coming in, anyone already in here. So thank you for explaining that.

01:12:18.880 Can you just tell everyone where they can follow and find you?

01:12:21.980 Sure. So obviously you could follow me at the blaze podcast or iTunes CR podcast. I have a lot of

01:12:28.180 guests on that discuss this in depth, as well as my own Intel that I get every day, as well as many,

01:12:33.440 many, many, many other issues at RM conservative on Twitter. And of course, uh, at the blaze with

01:12:38.400 all of our, our, uh, columns and articles. Um, and Allie, thanks so much. I really enjoy your show.

01:12:43.500 Yeah. Thank you. Thank you so much for coming on.

01:12:46.280 Really looking forward to coming back. Take care.

01:12:52.660 So I hope you guys enjoyed that conversation. I know that it was a lot. There's just a lot going on.

01:12:57.880 I just want to end the week by reminding you to, uh, just as I have to do every day to try to,

01:13:06.440 um, be as good as we can at combining the compassion or the compassion that is demanded

01:13:16.220 of us in scripture with the truth. I don't believe in compromising one for the other. I think that

01:13:22.260 sometimes we can swing on that pendulum, but God calls us to both. And I think we have such a

01:13:27.740 perfect embodiment of that in Jesus himself that he never compromised in the truth. Like he was very

01:13:33.260 harsh. And I think sometimes even sarcastic, like you can read Jesus and your feelings can get hurt

01:13:37.840 because he really is so blunt with the truth, but he was always, um, he was always caring and

01:13:46.980 attentive and gentle in his presentation of the truth and his talking about sin and his urging

01:13:54.480 toward repentance. And he called the rich and the powerful to repent. He also called the poor and

01:14:00.300 the sick and the lame to repent. So God cared about the truth or Jesus cared about the truth.

01:14:05.180 He cared about repentance. He cared about sin and salvation, even as at the same time, and it's driven

01:14:13.420 by, uh, his love for people. And I pray that we would, uh, we would be the same way and we're going to

01:14:21.020 fail at it. But when it comes to these kinds of conversations, especially when it comes to illegal

01:14:25.740 immigration, it can be so difficult to have these conversations in a way that actually makes sense,

01:14:31.340 but we have to understand what's really going on. And again, what is happening, um, there right now

01:14:37.120 is not love. It's not compassion. And the fact that the media covers it one way when a Republican is in

01:14:43.340 office and another way when a Democrat is in office just tells us like, we don't need to take our moral

01:14:47.800 cues or outrage cues from the media. Like we need to be seeking the truth as much as we possibly can.

01:14:53.740 And we need to pray to God for discernment in all things. All right. That's all I've got to say

01:14:59.860 for today. We will see you guys back here on Monday.

Relatable with Allie Beth Stuckey - March 18, 2021

Ep 388 ｜ The Border Crisis & Loving the Foreigner ｜ Guest： Daniel Horowitz

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