Relatable with Allie Beth Stuckey - Ep 41 ｜ Jen Hatmaker's Instagram Post

00:00:00.000 What's up, guys? It's Allie, the host of CRTV's Relatable. So if you are watching this on

00:00:06.660 CRTV.com slash Allie, which everyone should be, by the way, you can see that I'm in a little bit

00:00:13.420 different setting. I am not at home. I'm not in my studio. I am at a hotel in Washington, D.C.

00:00:19.240 I am here on business. I spoke to conservative members of Congress this morning about engaging

00:00:24.300 with millennials and how to really do that. And tomorrow, actually today, today, I'm okay. I'm

00:00:33.440 okay. Okay. You caught me. I'm recording this on Wednesday. I'm recording this on Wednesday. What

00:00:37.800 I meant, but as you are listening to this, it will be today, this morning. It will have been in the

00:00:43.400 past, but right now I'm talking in the future. Does that make any sense? I'm not sure. On Thursday

00:00:47.480 morning, I am speaking to slash spoke at a Kavanaugh rally for Concerned Women for America.

00:00:57.620 And if you haven't heard, there have been even more allegations that have come out against Kavanaugh,

00:01:03.720 some of them leveled by Michael Avenatti's client, and then another one in an article by Ronan Farrow

00:01:13.160 and The New Yorker. All of these claims are uncorroborated. There haven't been any witnesses

00:01:17.580 to these claims. There also seems to be a misunderstanding of what corroborated actually

00:01:23.260 means. There are people on the left who are saying that Dr. Ford, for example, her claims are

00:01:28.600 corroborated by her therapist, by her husband, by other people whom she told this story to,

00:01:34.160 but her claims have not been corroborated. What has been corroborated is that she made these claims.

00:01:38.760 And apparently she did make these claims before 2018. But that doesn't prove that they happened.

00:01:45.080 Corroboration means that someone was there that they can say, yeah, this actually did happen. I

00:01:49.340 was a witness or I heard directly about this or even someone that could say, hey, this sounds a lot

00:01:54.940 like something Kavanaugh would do. I know we've talked about this a lot lately. And maybe it seems

00:02:01.360 like we're beating the dead horse. But I'm just kind of giving you a feeling of what's actually been

00:02:05.540 talked about in the news almost incessantly. There's been other stuff happening. But this

00:02:10.260 Kavanaugh stuff has been really totally, completely dominating the news cycle. And for good reason.

00:02:18.360 I mean, this is a Supreme Court nomination. This is a this is a very big deal. As I've said before,

00:02:24.400 this is all a political tactic by Democrats. They want to delay the vote past the midterms. They think

00:02:29.960 that there's a chance they could take the Senate. If they take the Senate, then they obviously would not

00:02:34.760 confirm Trump's nominee. And they could, I guess, keep pushing and pushing this off maybe past 2020.

00:02:41.260 And then whoever became president in 2020, of course, they wanted to be a Democrat could

00:02:45.780 nominate the Supreme Court justice of their choice, which would be a liberal activist.

00:02:52.000 They're really not concerned with Ford. They're not concerned with these really with these allegations

00:02:57.740 or these alleged victims. They're not even really that concerned about Kavanaugh. They are concerned

00:03:01.720 with winning. They are concerned with the midterms. They are concerned with painting Republicans

00:03:05.580 as evil bigots who side with sexual abusers. Now, as I've also said, we don't know absolutely for sure

00:03:12.680 whether or not these things happened. We don't. I mean, we weren't there. The only people that know

00:03:17.200 whether they happened or not is apparently Brett Kavanaugh and these women who are accusing him of sexual

00:03:24.420 assault. I mean, this latest lady accused him of gang rape, of gang rape. What? I mean, that's a very

00:03:32.340 serious allegation. Obviously, if that was true, I think that he should be disqualified for the Supreme

00:03:37.780 Court. But still, even after multiple allegations now, which is how the left does, they just pile up

00:03:46.040 these allegations so they can turn it into a story and a narrative and paint a picture for everyone

00:03:50.300 and get us to the point to where we can't push back on it. Even after all of this, it's very hard

00:03:56.420 for me to believe. It's very hard for me to believe that this is a gang raping sexual assaulter

00:04:04.040 who is now about to be confirmed to the Supreme Court, who has also passed six FBI background checks,

00:04:11.340 has been living in the swamp and involved in D.C. for the past three decades, was involved in the

00:04:17.780 investigation into Bill Clinton, also has multiple people, dozens of people on both sides of the aisle

00:04:24.080 saying that this is a guy who is above reproach, who is of integrity. It's just very hard for me to

00:04:30.320 believe that a guy who is gang raping in the 80s has had such a reputable career so far or for the past

00:04:38.840 three and a half decades. It's just that's very difficult for me to believe, because as I've said

00:04:43.040 before, that would make him a sociopath. And that is hard to believe, considering how long he has been

00:04:51.140 in this industry and been in this business and how many background checks he has had. So again,

00:04:56.160 I just think the allegations are ridiculous. Do I know for sure that they didn't happen? No,

00:05:00.640 absolutely no one knows for sure, except for the accusers and Brett Kavanaugh. Brett Kavanaugh has

00:05:05.860 repeatedly denied this. He has gone on Martha McCallum, as you guys heard when I was talking to Graham

00:05:10.100 Allen and has said, I was a virgin all through college and many years thereafter. I highly doubt

00:05:17.740 he would offer up that kind of information if he had really been a gang rapist. I just don't buy the

00:05:25.040 other stories. I just don't. And I'm not saying that I'm not biased. I'm not saying that I'm not

00:05:29.000 partisan at all. I'm really trying to see this, though, through objective eyes. As I've said before,

00:05:34.140 I don't want to live in a world in which people can just make up allegations and ruin someone's life.

00:05:38.700 I would like to believe Ford. I would like to believe Ramirez. I would like to believe these

00:05:42.880 new allegations simply because I don't want to believe that someone can make up accusations and

00:05:47.660 ruin someone's life and livelihood. However, in this hyper-partisan time, it's not far-fetched.

00:05:55.620 It's not far-fetched to believe that this is just a scheme by the left to try to take down Kavanaugh.

00:06:01.500 Why wouldn't they? They have proven that nothing is beneath them. I was on Fox and Friends yesterday

00:06:07.020 morning talking about the same thing, about how leftists have been so ruthless against Ashley

00:06:12.800 Kavanaugh, who, of course, was with Judge Kavanaugh in his Fox News interview with Martha McCallum

00:06:17.720 and how she couldn't possibly know anything about her husband because she didn't know him at the time

00:06:22.460 of these allegations. But these random women on the Internet, these random celebrities who don't

00:06:27.060 know anyone involved, apparently their opinion counts. So is it believe all women or not? Oh,

00:06:32.900 no, no, no, no. It's just believe the women who actually advance the leftist agenda. Anyone who

00:06:37.480 doesn't advance the leftist agenda, well, they need to be shut down. So all of Bill Clinton's very

00:06:42.140 credible accusers, by the way, there's been many, many of them, and he has admitted to sexual

00:06:46.900 deviance at the very least over his life. What about Keith Ellison's accuser? Karen Monaghan,

00:06:53.900 I think her name is, who actually has pictures of herself, hit or with like a bruised eye and

00:07:01.840 messages from him emotionally abusing her and corroboration from her kids. That's corroboration

00:07:10.060 who said that they, I think, saw and experienced this stuff. The left doesn't talk about those

00:07:14.940 allegations, only about these uncorroborated allegations. No, I mean, really, give me a break.

00:07:20.900 But anyway, I just wanted to kind of give you an update on that. That's all the information that

00:07:25.500 I have right now on Wednesday as I'm recording this. That's not what we're talking about today,

00:07:29.440 though. I want to get to the thing that I told you guys that I was going to talk to you about,

00:07:34.980 and that is Jen Hatmaker's post. So for those of you who don't know, I am not a Jen Hatmaker fan.

00:07:40.600 Am I condemning her to hell? No, I don't have the power to do that. Do I hate her? No,

00:07:46.740 I do not hate her. We're not supposed to hate anyone. Do I think that she's a false teacher?

00:07:51.520 I absolutely do. She preaches things that are unbiblical on a quite frequent basis.

00:07:57.720 And I think that she is very dangerously leading people astray with this idea of Christianity

00:08:06.340 without Christ, of the Bible without biblical truth. She is a culturally convenient Christian,

00:08:13.220 aka not a, well, I don't want to say, I almost said not a Christian at all. A culturally convenient

00:08:18.720 Christian isn't actually a Christian. I'm not going to judge the state of her heart and say the state of

00:08:23.720 her ultimate salvation. I hope that that's not the case. I hope she repents from these false

00:08:29.260 teachings that she is promulgating. However, what she is showing and exemplifying right now is not

00:08:36.940 Christianity. It's picking and choosing parts of the Bible that are convenient, that are easy,

00:08:41.400 that are soft, that allow you to be popular in the world's eyes while still feeling righteous

00:08:46.840 because you call on the name of Jesus. So she recently had an Instagram post that I think one

00:08:57.560 of you on Instagram, you messaged me about it and you were like, please respond to this. So I saw it

00:09:03.800 and here's what the Instagram post said. As a leader and author, pastor and teacher,

00:09:09.960 let me just be positively clear where I stand on a few things. In the most outrageous twilight zone ever,

00:09:15.980 these issues have now become, quote, partisan. But to me, these are purely a matter of my faith,

00:09:21.360 which compels me. Okay, girl. Okay. Okay. I will always champion a working faith ethic that

00:09:29.660 believes women. Condemns the pervasive patriarchal power structures that keep women silenced,

00:09:36.140 underpaid, underrepresented, exploited, denigrated, shamed, and abused. Names, repents from,

00:09:43.020 resists, and actively fights white supremacy in all its forms, structures, systems, language,

00:09:48.500 and evil practices. Actively resists children being held in detainment apart from their parents at the

00:09:54.420 border as a wicked, punitive, unconscionable political strategy. Refuses to accept the

00:10:00.500 dehumanization of immigrants, refugees, Muslims, Mexicans, and brown and black bodies everywhere.

00:10:05.320 Affirms the LGBT community, defends their rights, and cherishes their humanity. Believes we have a

00:10:10.500 better story to write together than the divided, contagious, fear-based example we see in culture

00:10:14.500 right now. We can do better. We are better than this. The thing is, this is the only way I

00:10:21.560 understand the gospel. I cannot come to any other conclusion than this laid out for us by Jesus.

00:10:27.880 Okay. Anything other than a radically inclusive faith that honors the dignity of every person

00:10:34.180 makes no sense to me. Okay. I can't find any other road through my faith than one that condemns

00:10:40.620 patriarchy. Wow. Misogyny, sexism, racism, homophobia, ableism, abuse, and white supremacy.

00:10:49.100 Nothing else makes sense, she says in all caps. This is who Jesus is and what he came to do.

00:10:56.220 Really? Oh, wow. Okay. I can't say it any plainer. He came to loose the chains of injustice and set the

00:11:02.580 captives free. Full stop. I hate when people say full stop. I hate it. No, not full stop. Like there

00:11:08.980 are arguments to what you said. Okay. I'm not done yet. So that is where you will always find me,

00:11:13.920 good readers. During every administration, throughout every moment, in every church setting,

00:11:18.140 in all my work, five years from now, 10 years from now, until I'm dead. Happy Monday, sisters. Let's get

00:11:23.320 after it. Like, give me, gosh, give me a break. Give me a break. Okay. Let's, let's start at the top.

00:11:34.480 Okay. Uh, so she says as a leader in mother, pastor, pastor and teacher. So I already have a hard time

00:11:42.980 with this. I'm not sure what she means by pastor. Uh, if she means from, uh, the pulpit on a Sunday

00:11:49.240 morning, teaching men and women that is unbiblical. Okay. The Bible says very clearly that women are

00:11:54.100 not to teach men and women in a church setting. Now I have gotten people saying, well, why do you

00:11:59.920 talk about the Bible on your podcast? If men listen to this, this is not a pulpit. And like I've said

00:12:05.160 before, if you can't tell the difference between a podcast and a pulpit, you need to be listening to

00:12:09.400 something more elementary. I recommend Sesame street. So Jen Hatmaker says that she's a pastor.

00:12:14.320 I'm not really sure what she means by that. If she means a shepherd of people of, of women and

00:12:19.220 children, then that's perfectly fine. Maybe I'm reading too far into it. Pastor, a little bit of

00:12:24.720 a stretch to me. Okay. Um, and teacher, let me just be positively clear where I stand on a few things

00:12:29.600 in the most outrageous twilight zone ever. These issues have now become partisan, partisan. Everything

00:12:35.080 she lists from here on out is, is, uh, is partisan language. I won't say it's all partisan because

00:12:42.620 some of the stuff I agree with. Sure. I agree. I'll get to that, uh, to the parts I agree, but yes,

00:12:49.140 you are using partisan political language and saying, this is not partisan. This is not political. This is

00:12:53.940 the gospel. No girl. No. I mean, I'm a Christian and a conservative, but I am not going to say it is

00:13:01.880 the gospel to follow the first or the first amendment. I'm not going to say, Oh, it is the

00:13:07.360 gospel to believe in free speech in the second amendment. No, I definitely believe those things

00:13:12.280 because they're buttressed in my opinion, by a biblical theological and logical truth. But I am

00:13:18.000 not going to say that these are a gospel issues and why Jesus came to die. Like, I'm not going to say,

00:13:25.100 okay, here's so, so here's my working faith ethic that is totally not partisan. So guys,

00:13:31.880 smaller government and deregulation and lower taxes are what I stand for. And I'm sorry,

00:13:36.560 but this is why Jesus came to die. No. Do I believe those things? Do I believe those things

00:13:41.500 are based in a biblical truth? Yes, but I am not going to say that they're a gospel issue and to

00:13:46.880 say that they're not partisan. They are partisan. Um, so she's lying right off the bat. No, these aren't

00:13:53.860 partisan. This is just true. And see, this is part of the problem with the left is that they view

00:13:59.400 their views as strictly moral, as strictly right and righteous and good. And there is no argument

00:14:07.980 against them. Full stop in her words. There's no argument against them. They are just right.

00:14:13.140 They're, they're just right. It's not partisan. It's not partisan to believe these things. No,

00:14:16.960 it's just right and good. That is exactly why they condemn anyone who doesn't agree with them as a bad

00:14:21.360 person, because they believe that, uh, everything that they, uh, that they believe is absolutely right.

00:14:28.120 And there is no arguing. It's just a moral, religious gospel issue. Um, okay. Have now

00:14:33.360 become partisan to me. These are purely a matter of my faith, which compels me. All right. Um,

00:14:39.000 I will always champion a working faith ethic that a believes woman. Okay, Jen, why,

00:14:48.020 why, what, what, what part of the Christian faith compels you to believe women, all women? Do you

00:14:58.120 want to talk about the women in the Bible who lied? Okay. Let's talk about Eve. Really wish Adam

00:15:03.980 hadn't believed Eve. Now we can get into predestination, all of that stuff. Of course,

00:15:07.760 everything is under God's sovereign will, but we're talking about people who sinned here,

00:15:11.480 who led to bad things, who led to destruction and dismay. So Eve, that wasn't that great. Delilah,

00:15:18.620 not great. Jezebel, not great. Uh, let's see. Sapphira, not great. Uh, all of these women who

00:15:27.220 lied, who, uh, paid consequences for their lies, by the way. Um, I don't think that we need to be

00:15:34.880 believing all women. God doesn't believe all women and God condemns women and men who lie. Okay.

00:15:41.480 Um, there is no reason for me to believe a woman because she is a woman. As I've said,

00:15:47.020 I think that is unjust. That is wrong. If you believe as a Christian, that we are equal in

00:15:52.660 God's sight, which we should, we are both made in the image of God and have equal dignity in the

00:15:57.380 eyes of God. If you truly believe in that equality, why demean men by not believing them and only

00:16:03.240 believing in women because they are women? That's condescending. That's patronizing. And that's

00:16:08.060 the stupid conundrum that so many feminists find themselves in that we are simultaneously

00:16:12.640 the strong, empowered women that women don't, that don't need no man, but also we are helpless

00:16:17.160 victims of the patriarchy who have to be believed at all times. No, I don't buy that. I don't think

00:16:23.220 that's part of the Christian faith at all. It's certainly not part of the gospel. I do not need

00:16:26.700 to believe women just because they're women. I believe the truth as God believes the truth,

00:16:31.620 as he is the truth. He is incongruent with anything that is not true. He does not believe women just

00:16:37.400 because they are women. He would have spared Sapphira if that was the case when she lied.

00:16:43.040 No, we're not supposed to believe women. That's not biblical. Find, find me, find me that in the

00:16:47.680 Bible. By the way, I don't see any, any scripture in here. Uh, so believes women got that out of the

00:16:55.300 way, out of the way, uh, to condemns the pervasive patriarchal power structures that keep women

00:17:01.100 silenced, underpaid, underrepresented, exploited, denigrated, shamed, and abused.

00:17:09.240 Okay. Okay. Okay. Yes. Yes. I believe I don't want women to be silenced. I don't want them to be

00:17:18.340 underpaid. I don't want them to be underrepresented. I guess I don't want them to be exploited or

00:17:26.320 denigrated or shamed or abused. Of course not. Neither does God. So I would agree with that,

00:17:31.320 but you believe that it is the patriarchy that is doing that. And we know that that's not the case.

00:17:37.120 It's sin that's doing that. And yes, systemic injustice does exist. It is not perpetuated

00:17:42.760 by the patriarchy. That is again, um, an instance of blaming men, uh, by the way, the Bible does support

00:17:50.540 the patriarchy. Yikes. It does. I know I've talked about on this podcast before complimentarianism and

00:17:58.540 I do believe in complimentarianism, but yes, the Bible does support patriarchy. The man is the head

00:18:05.960 of the family. Um, now I'm not saying that it has to be true. Um, in every sector of society,

00:18:11.600 I think it's awesome when women lead. I think it's awesome when they're CEOs. I think it's awesome when

00:18:16.220 they, um, are involved in civic life. I think that's wonderful. Obviously I'm a very outspoken

00:18:21.520 woman myself. However, it's not correct to say that, uh, proper patriarchal structures in which

00:18:29.200 a man is caring for a woman, um, is unbiblical because it's not unbiblical. And to say that that

00:18:36.740 is to blame, uh, for all of the denigration and demeaning and abuse of women is simply wrong.

00:18:42.320 It is sin. It is sin who does that. Um, it is not the patriarchy read up girl, uh, names repents

00:18:52.060 from resist and actively fights white supremacy in all of its forms, structures, systems, uh, language

00:18:58.460 and evil practices. Yes. Yes. I agree with that. White supremacy is wrong. There is no room for white

00:19:06.340 supremacy in the kingdom of God. Um, black supremacy is wrong. Asian supremacy is wrong. Any kind of

00:19:12.200 supremacy, anything that demeans someone for their immutable characteristics or elevates someone for

00:19:18.280 their immutable characteristics, um, I would say is wrong. And God doesn't see us like that. We are

00:19:23.360 neither slave nor free, nor Jew, nor Greek, nor male, nor female in the eyes of God in the body of

00:19:29.580 Christ. So I agree with you, Jen, that we should, uh, reject white supremacy, but I would go a step

00:19:35.980 further and say that I reject racism of all kinds coming from anyone, not just white people, by the

00:19:43.000 way. I mean, look at South Africa. Uh, do you reject what's going on there? That ain't white supremacy.

00:19:48.980 Any kind of racism leads to violence and destruction and it's wrong. It should be condemned. So I agree

00:19:54.700 with you. White supremacy is wrong. Uh, so are other forms of racism. So let's not forget that Jennifer,

00:20:00.080 um, actively resists children being held in detainment apart from their parents at the border

00:20:08.560 as a wicked, punitive, unconscionable political strategy. Okay. Okay. Yes. Part. I do not like it

00:20:20.980 that kids are separated from their parents at the border. I think that that is, uh, very sad. Let's

00:20:27.320 talk about though, why that happens. Um, it is not simply because the government is separating kids

00:20:34.440 from their parents. It is because a lot of these kids are being trafficked by people that are not

00:20:39.480 their parents. And if you supported the wall, if you supported a secure border, all of this could end

00:20:46.300 tomorrow. Um, but you don't, you and a lot of other people like you support basically open borders.

00:20:53.600 Uh, and that's not going to help the problem at all. The border is very dangerous. If

00:20:57.260 we secured it, these things wouldn't happen. Now I don't like the idea of separating children as a

00:21:02.460 political strategy. I think that's wrong. And that is sad, but there is still responsibility

00:21:07.160 on the people who, uh, who carry these kids illegally over the border. Why would you bring

00:21:13.560 them into harm's way? A lot of them are doing it for ulterior motives. A lot of these kids are

00:21:18.680 trafficked. So we're not going to blame this, uh, so-called punitive political strategy for the

00:21:24.060 entirety of the separation that's happening at the border. And I just don't remember you talking

00:21:28.840 about this when it was happening under Obama, because it was happening under Obama. So did you

00:21:34.460 have that complaint then? And Hey, if you didn't know about it, you didn't know about it. Maybe

00:21:38.400 that's not your fault, but I've only seen you pipe up about this kind of stuff, uh, since Trump has been

00:21:43.820 in office. So just want to kind of maybe clear that one up. Um, refuses to accept the dehumanization

00:21:50.760 of immigrants, refugees, Muslims, Mexicans, and Brown and black bodies everywhere. Uh, who's doing

00:21:56.480 that? Uh, who's, who's dehumanizing immigrants? I don't know a single person who dehumanizes

00:22:04.360 immigrants and Muslims and Mexicans and Brown and black bodies. Now, sure. There are racists out

00:22:10.560 there. Sure. I, but again, I didn't hear you talk about this stuff when Obama was president and,

00:22:16.040 uh, racism was happening, uh, actually pervasively from, uh, a few different directions. Um, we got

00:22:24.860 more divided under Obama's presidency. You can look this up, polarization and politics, Pew research. We

00:22:30.260 got more divided under, uh, Obama than we had ever before. Um, racially, uh, on economic issues,

00:22:39.120 on moral issues, on political issues. We got divided under him. Why? Because of identity politics,

00:22:44.640 but I didn't hear you calling that out. And do you reject identity politics? Because we have

00:22:49.680 identity politics to blame for white supremacy and racism and any kind of dehumanization of any race

00:22:55.320 that's happening. I haven't seen you list identity politics and this idea anyway, that there is

00:23:00.860 dehumanization of black and Brown people on a systemic level in America is wrong. It's wrong.

00:23:06.780 Do you also reject the dehumanization of men that's happening on a large scale in this country

00:23:11.640 because of feminism? Huh? It's interesting. It's interesting how you pick and choose the issues

00:23:17.260 that you care about, but don't worry guys, it's not partisan. It's just gospel. Okay. Um,

00:23:26.400 affirms the LGBTQ community, defends their rights and cherishes their humanity. Okay. Depends on what

00:23:33.960 you mean by affirm. If you mean that you affirm that they are people made in God's image that we need to

00:23:39.720 love and welcome and be hospitable to and try to lead to Christ. Absolutely. I completely agree with

00:23:46.740 that. Um, defend their rights. Yes, they should have human rights just like everyone else. They are

00:23:52.700 human beings. Um, cherish their humanity. Absolutely. I don't know anyone that doesn't do those, uh, three

00:24:00.600 things. If you're talking about just in the human sense and loving, uh, our fellow man, sure. But you

00:24:07.680 affirm gay marriage and you affirm the validity and the holiness of gay marriage. And that is decidedly

00:24:14.540 unbiblical. Um, the Bible is very clear about homosexuality. I know that's uncomfortable. I wish

00:24:19.980 the Bible wasn't clear about homosexuality. It would be a lot easier. It would be a lot easier for us to

00:24:25.300 all just kind of ignore that part. Um, but if you have read Jen Hatmaker, Rosaria Butterfield's, uh,

00:24:31.720 response to your affirmation of the LGBT community, a woman who was a lesbian for 20 plus years and had

00:24:38.540 the same partner for almost as long and who became a Christian and completely changed her life

00:24:43.520 and, um, how sad and how scary your affirmation of the LGBT community was to her. I think that you

00:24:51.060 might change your outlook. You should also look into Christopher Yuan who had a similar, uh, repentance

00:24:56.000 experience, Jackie Hill Perry, gay girl, good God. Um, they all experienced the love of Christ first.

00:25:01.880 They repented from unbelief first, but then God graciously led them into repentance and sanctification.

00:25:09.160 And if that is the direction, if that is not the direction that someone is a Christian, uh, teacher is

00:25:14.300 leading someone, they are wrong. They are wrong. It is not loving to lie to someone. It is not loving to

00:25:20.140 affirm something that God says is not what he intends. Um, we are to love our transgender brothers

00:25:26.260 and sisters, our gay brothers and sisters. We are to affirm their humanity. We are to cherish them

00:25:32.200 as individuals that God loves and wants to save, but to not point them towards, uh, belief in Christ

00:25:38.900 first. Um, and then also through the power of the Holy spirit to repentance, to sanctification,

00:25:46.100 then that is not love. That's not love. That's laziness. So not really sure what you mean by

00:25:52.360 that girly girl, uh, believes we have a better story to write together than the divided, contentious

00:25:58.920 fear-based example we see in culture right now. We can do better. We are better than this.

00:26:06.820 Okay. Sure. Yeah. Fear-based. Who are you talking about? Are you talking about Trump? Okay. Yeah.

00:26:15.440 That's what I thought. Right. Uh, fear-based. That is exactly what the left does on a daily basis.

00:26:21.680 And so did Obama. That's the only thing that he ever did. Fear tactics. I just didn't hear you

00:26:26.120 talk about that then. Um, she says, the thing is, this is the only way I understand the gospel.

00:26:34.960 What gospel are you reading? These are the, no, no, this, this is not the God. Do you know what

00:26:43.420 the gospel is? Do you know what the gospel is? I might need to share the gospel with Jen Hatmaker.

00:26:49.220 The gospel is that Jesus Christ, God made flesh came down from his heavenly throne to live a life.

00:26:58.100 He did not have to live and die a death that he did not have to die to pay the punishment for our sins.

00:27:04.680 Now, Jen, he did not have to do that. If sin doesn't matter. If all that matters is that we

00:27:12.800 affirm your, uh, partisan opinions, Jesus did not have to die the gruesome death that he died.

00:27:19.880 And he didn't have to rise again three days later to defeat sin and death on our behalf. He didn't

00:27:24.460 have to do that. He could have just said, you know what, just do what you want to do. I'll love

00:27:28.700 everyone in the end. Just, just love people. Just be unconditionally tolerant and inclusive. That's all you

00:27:34.200 have to do. Do you honestly think Jesus died for that? Do you think that's why he bled? That's why

00:27:40.140 he was beaten. That's why he died a brutal death on the cross, just so we could be nice to each other.

00:27:46.680 No, he died because of sin and because of the brutality and the intensity and the seriousness

00:27:53.980 of sin and any gospel that you list without repentance is not the gospel and nothing in here.

00:28:01.920 Did you talk about repentance or salvation or the necessity of Jesus? This is a Christless

00:28:08.920 Christianity. And you say, it's not partisan. All you did was list political points. You didn't,

00:28:14.360 you didn't talk about the necessity of Jesus Christ once. What is the gospel without Christ,

00:28:19.860 without the salvation of Christ? Christ did not come just to, uh, give us a good example of how to be

00:28:25.940 nice to people. No, he took sin very seriously and he died because of it. Your version of redemption

00:28:32.900 is cheap. Your version of grace is flimsy. And I am scared for the women who follow you because you're

00:28:40.280 charming. I don't want Christianity without Christ. I don't want a Christianity that is just convenient for

00:28:49.340 me. Now, look, I don't want to go through pain and persecution. I wish I didn't have to have unpopular,

00:28:55.980 contradictory beliefs to the culture. I wish that I could just go along to get along, that I could

00:29:00.720 be along with the mainstream and not have to talk about uncomfortable things like marriage and like

00:29:05.980 gender and like sin and repentance and salvation and the exclusivity of the gospel. But I do that because

00:29:14.000 that is the gospel. That is what we are compelled to do. Jesus said, you have to hate your father and

00:29:19.280 mother. You have to deny yourself, take up your cross and follow him. What cross am I taking up if

00:29:25.660 I look exactly like the rest of the world and sound exactly like the rest of the world? Now, I'm not

00:29:31.380 saying that everything Jen Hatmaker believes is wrong. There is, I'm sure that she is well-intended. I'm

00:29:37.300 sure that she loves people very well and that maybe she's a wonderfully hospitable person. And I think

00:29:43.600 those are great qualities that all Christians should have that I could get better at. But this idea that

00:29:49.380 it is the gospel to buy in to leftist partisan talking points is a false doctrine and that we have

00:29:57.640 to affirm sin in order to be loving and kind and compassionate and to be like Jesus is wrong. It's

00:30:05.480 wrong and it leads people astray. She's not done though. Anything other than a radically inclusive

00:30:13.380 faith that honors the dignity of every person makes no sense to me. Okay. Oh, well, no, I skipped

00:30:21.240 something. I skipped something. She said, this is the only way I understand the gospel. I cannot come

00:30:27.300 to any other conclusion than this path laid out for us by Jesus. No, this wasn't laid out by Jesus.

00:30:36.620 What you just listed is not laid out by Jesus. You made it up. Now, some of the stuff like empathy

00:30:43.400 for immigrants, empathy for people who don't look like us. Yes, that is Christ-like. But what you

00:30:49.880 are implying is that we have to be liberals in order to be Christ-like. And that is not true.

00:30:55.300 Anything other than a radically inclusive faith that honors the dignity of every person makes no sense

00:31:02.120 to me. Okay. Radically inclusive. Radically inclusive in that anyone can come to Christ.

00:31:10.480 This is true. Or let me say Christ can choose anyone regardless of their station, regardless of

00:31:16.300 their sin, regardless of their background. That is absolutely true. It is radically inclusive in that

00:31:21.380 way. And that there is no way to get to God, but that God came down to us through Christ. That is

00:31:28.940 true. But it is radically exclusive in the sense that Jesus says, I am the only way, the only truth,

00:31:35.460 the only life that no one, not a single person comes to the father except through me. That's pretty

00:31:41.460 exclusive. So maybe she means inclusive in the way that anyone can come to Christ and be saved by Christ.

00:31:47.960 Yes. But she does not mention salvation once in her outline of the so-called gospel.

00:31:55.420 Okay. She says, makes no sense to me. That honors the dignity of every person. Yes. Makes no sense to

00:32:04.700 me. Well, Jen, I don't really care what makes sense to you and no one else should either. Makes no sense to

00:32:13.660 you. There's a lot of things in the Bible that don't make sense to me. That means that I just don't get

00:32:19.440 it. It doesn't mean that the Bible is wrong. See, here's the problem with Jen Hatmaker and people like

00:32:24.820 her. She conforms the Bible to what she thinks. And if something doesn't make sense to her or

00:32:31.860 something doesn't feel good to her, then the Bible is wrong, not her. That's the wrong way to think.

00:32:36.680 If something doesn't make sense to me in the Bible, if I don't like something in the Bible, if it makes me

00:32:40.480 uncomfortable, if it brushes up against my preconceived notions, even my conservative

00:32:44.340 politics, then it's me that's wrong. I am wrong. Not the Bible, not God. How dare I talk back to God?

00:32:53.680 Jen doesn't seem to think this way. I can't find any other road through my faith than one that

00:32:59.900 condemns the patriarchy, misogyny, sexism, racism, homophobia. Yes, I believe that all of these things

00:33:06.860 are condemned by the Bible. Homophobia, homophobia in the sense that, yeah, we're not supposed to

00:33:13.180 demean or discriminate against gay people or treat them any worse than anyone else. I absolutely agree

00:33:19.420 with that, but it depends on what you mean by homophobia. Ableism, true. Agree. Abuse, true.

00:33:24.420 White supremacy, true. All of these things are wrong, but I would add to that list. Identity politics,

00:33:28.840 wrong. Social justice in the wrong forms, wrong. Abortion, wrong. Many waves of feminism, wrong.

00:33:39.200 Discriminating against men because they are men, wrong. False accusations, wrong. Why aren't those

00:33:45.540 on your list? Oh yeah, because this is a partisan conversation that we're having, not a gospel

00:33:50.440 conversation. Okay, next thing. She says in all caps, nothing else makes sense. Again, I don't care what

00:33:58.140 makes sense to you. This is who Jesus is and what he came to do. This is blasphemy. It's blasphemy.

00:34:04.600 This is who Jesus is and what he came to do. Align with your partisan politics. You didn't say,

00:34:10.580 again, this is who Jesus is and what he came to do. Didn't say one thing about salvation.

00:34:15.960 Not one thing about grace. Not one thing about repentance. Not one thing about giving your heart

00:34:22.000 and your life to Christ. Not one thing about submitting to him. Not one thing about finding

00:34:26.800 satisfaction and joy in Christ alone in the way that he can change your heart and mind and change

00:34:32.460 the course of your life and most importantly, your eternal destination. She's talking about the gospel

00:34:38.020 and Jesus, but she doesn't care if people believe in the gospel or Jesus. She cares that people vote

00:34:43.300 Democrat. That's what's coming across. She does not talk about the gospel. She only talks about her

00:34:50.860 political opinions and calls it the gospel. That is blasphemy. That is a false doctrine.

00:34:58.860 So don't anyone come in and tell me that I'm taking this stuff out of context. That, oh,

00:35:03.700 she's not really a false teacher that we're talking about two different things. No,

00:35:07.100 she is saying, this is the gospel. This is what Jesus came to do. You didn't talk about the cross,

00:35:11.320 girl. You're going to tell me what Jesus came to do. You're not going to talk about his death and

00:35:15.020 resurrection. And you call yourself a teacher and a pastor. Wow. That's sad. He came to loose the

00:35:24.520 chains of injustice and set the captives free. Yeah. Spiritually. Now that's not to say that we

00:35:32.280 shouldn't fight against injustice and slavery physically. We should. But when Jesus set the

00:35:41.860 captives free and loosed the chains, he's not talking about social justice and misogyny.

00:35:48.800 That's not what he's talking about. Again, no mention of spiritual salvation here from the pastor,

00:35:54.560 Jen Hatmaker. And she says, full stop, full stop, meaning she doesn't want to hear what anyone has to

00:36:02.000 say. Okay. So that is where you always find me. She says during every administration, throughout every

00:36:07.820 movement, blah, blah, blah, church setting. Okay. Didn't hear this last administration, this kind

00:36:14.100 of stuff. So that's interesting. I'll be interested to see the future. Little tip for Jen Hatmaker.

00:36:21.480 It's fine that you believe this stuff. Thankfully, we live in a wonderful country where you are free to

00:36:25.880 believe what you want to believe. I'm free to believe what I want to believe. And we can have

00:36:28.920 differences. Again, I don't wish any harm towards Jen Hatmaker. I think that she has a lot of

00:36:35.040 wonderful qualities, which is what I think makes her very dangerous is that her lies sound a lot like

00:36:39.840 truth. And they appeal to itching ears. And she's a very, you know, entertaining, funny, witty, smart

00:36:49.000 person. But unfortunately, she's using her platform to spread a very false message. So my tip for Jen

00:36:59.120 Hatmaker would be to just not call yourself a pastor. You are a pick and choose, sometimes Christian,

00:37:05.020 sometimes not motivational speaker. That's fine. But don't boast the name of Christ and then not even

00:37:12.980 know the gospel, girl. So that's my take on all of that. Love you guys so much. Thanks for watching.

00:37:20.560 Thanks for listening. I will see you next week. Have a great weekend.

Relatable with Allie Beth Stuckey - September 27, 2018

Ep 41 ｜ Jen Hatmaker's Instagram Post

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