Relatable with Allie Beth Stuckey - Ep 421 ｜ When Culture's Confused, Christians Shouldn't Be ｜ Guest： John Cooper

00:00:00.000 Hey guys, welcome to Relatable. Hope everyone is having a great day. Today I am talking again

00:00:14.960 to the lead singer of Skillet, John Cooper. He also is an author. He's a podcaster. I've

00:00:21.300 had him on the show before. In the last episode that I had him on was super popular. You guys

00:00:28.140 loved him. Today we're continuing that conversation, talking about some new stuff as well. As much as

00:00:34.200 you loved that first interview, you are going to love this one even more. I'm so excited for you

00:00:39.100 to listen to it. Without further ado, here is John Cooper. John, thank you so much for joining me

00:00:50.100 again. It's so good to be here with you again. I love it. It's a good honor. It's the best thing

00:00:55.020 of 2021 so far. Oh my gosh. Wow. That is an honor to hear you say that. Well, we are going to talk

00:01:01.900 about, we've talked about your book before it came out, but now that it's been out for a little

00:01:06.100 while, I want to, I want to recap my audience on, on what the book is. I have it actually right in

00:01:11.540 front of me, why you wrote the book, kind of what the reception has been and how you think it speaks

00:01:17.520 to the cultural moment that we're in right now. Well, that's so nice. Thank you. Yeah. The book is

00:01:22.480 called Awaken Alive to Truth. You know this because you've written a book. It's funny when

00:01:27.380 you get it and you start recognizing all the typos. I know. I know. I've been there. I know.

00:01:34.140 But no one else does. I, you know, I've seen typos in my book and no one else has ever brought up a

00:01:39.680 typo. And so just understand that, that it's just you who notices it. Oh, maybe that's true. Maybe

00:01:45.340 it's like when you, you play on stage, you know, and being, you know, that you're hitting all those

00:01:49.460 wrong notes and we're still screaming, but, um, well, hopefully they're screaming if they ever

00:01:54.680 go to concerts anyway. Um, but the point is the book is Awaken Alive to Truth. I'm very passionate

00:02:00.680 about this, this shift that has happened in the way, not just in America, but all over the world

00:02:06.620 and the way that we view what truth even is. And, you know, for a lot of older people, I would say

00:02:13.320 people, generation X or boomers, it is taking a really long time for, to under, for us to 0.99

00:02:19.140 understand, uh, I'm 45 to understand what in the world was going on, uh, because we're not just

00:02:25.100 arguing about what is true. We are arguing about, is there such a thing as absolute truth? And it's

00:02:32.540 the way that that philosophy has entered into the church, which is what I'm most passionate about.

00:02:38.460 I mean, I am passionate about it for the, the implications to culture, but the way it has

00:02:42.580 infected the church has been so heartbreaking. So I wrote this book to explain a few of the

00:02:48.220 philosophies, but also a path to eternal truth, a truth that never changes, that is fixed. And

00:02:55.660 doesn't that sound good in a time of absolute volatility where we can't trust anything? Nobody

00:03:02.760 knows what to trust. You turn on the news and you're like, yeah, I don't know if I'm being fed a

00:03:07.140 lie. Everybody has their own conspiracy theories. Everybody has their own tribe because no one

00:03:11.880 trusts any of the institutions. Doesn't it sound good to have a truth that never changes? And I

00:03:18.000 believe we have that in the word of God, um, on the words of Jesus Christ and in the Bible. So

00:03:22.680 that's what this book is about. I really hope it, uh, strengthens people's faith, but I also hope

00:03:28.600 it's evangelistic that people could read it and say, oh my gosh, there really is a truth that never

00:03:33.080 changes that I could build my life upon. And I could be unshakable. That sounds really wonderful.

00:03:39.160 And the truth of Christ is really wonderful. What do you say to people who say, okay, yeah,

00:03:43.600 that, that does sound all well and good, but I can't, I can't trust the Bible. It was just written 1.00

00:03:48.660 by a bunch of men. How do I know that Christianity is truth? Why can't I just live my truth? Why can't

00:03:55.460 I just pick and choose from the different faiths and different worldviews, what sound good to me

00:03:59.780 and build my life based on that? Isn't that more liberating? Isn't that more freeing? Isn't that

00:04:05.060 more, um, solid and trustworthy? What do you, what do you say to that person who has those questions?

00:04:11.360 I would, I would probably just say like, look at the world. I mean, how's that working out?

00:04:15.960 Yeah. Right. How's that going? Yeah. I mean, I understand. I'm not mocking people who believe that

00:04:23.200 because that, that is sort of logical, right? Um, you, I can't convince anybody that the Bible

00:04:29.460 is real. Um, and, and I don't even have the power to do that anyway. Right. That's that power belongs

00:04:34.900 to God, of course. But the point is, is that I'm not mocking people for thinking that, but I am

00:04:39.840 saying, Hey, open up your eyes, take a look at the world. This is what happens when everybody believes

00:04:45.440 they have their own truth. If you have your own truth, then that means you will have your own

00:04:51.620 justice. It's only logical because you go, well, I don't, I don't care what somebody else says.

00:04:56.340 I don't care what they think. This is what I know to be true. And if I know it in my heart,

00:05:01.720 then anything that I do to make it so would therefore be moral. So I guess it's kind of

00:05:08.860 wrapped up in this philosophy of postmodernism that is just so, oh, it's so divisive. And it just

00:05:16.640 breaks down, it breaks down, it etches down everything in culture that everyone, you know,

00:05:22.200 all the commonality. And we see that, of course, in the church, but we also see it in the world. So

00:05:26.720 that is the reason that no one can decide is burning a building violence or not. Some people

00:05:32.600 say yes. Some people say no. What about when it's your building? And then they go, well, that's

00:05:37.240 different because of fill in the blank. That's different because of racial justice, or you just

00:05:43.160 fill in the blank with whatever it is that in your mind supersedes everyone else's version. And so if you

00:05:50.340 have your own truth claim as an individual that is higher than everybody else's, then you'll have

00:05:56.780 your own justice claim. And now we are in a world of chaos where everyone, just like the book of

00:06:01.840 Judges says, everyone did what was seemed right in their hearts. And that leads to chaos. And we are

00:06:08.180 seeing that in the church. And that is what I am most devastated about. Yeah. You expect to see

00:06:13.540 something like what you just described, that kind of relativism from the world, because they're not

00:06:20.000 starting on the foundation of the word of God. They don't believe in the, you know, as C.S. Lewis

00:06:24.820 talks about the great moral lawgiver that says what is and what isn't, what's right and what's wrong,

00:06:29.460 what's good and what's bad. They are starting from a place of, you know, kind of secular humanism that

00:06:36.440 just says we're just these evolved kind of clumps of matter and therefore meaning and purpose and

00:06:42.240 belonging and right and wrong are all determined by, you know, what we feel and maybe even what advances

00:06:48.760 society. But what you are pointing out so well is that I think a lot of people who have that mentality

00:06:54.300 of, well, my truth is good for me. Your truth is good for you. And why do you care what I think? Just

00:06:59.720 kind of let me be. They see their existence as, as just an individual inside their own little universe

00:07:08.340 in their own little ecosphere. But the fact of the matter is, is that we're interdependent. Like we live in

00:07:13.980 societies, we live in communities. And so whatever your truth is, that affects how you behave and how

00:07:20.140 you behave affects other people. It affects how you vote. It affects, uh, that what you think like

00:07:26.320 about, you know, riots and chaos and policies and all of these things that doesn't just affect you,

00:07:31.940 that affects everyone. And so it actually is so important as you are, as you are pointing out,

00:07:38.500 for us to have a worldview and to know where our worldview starts. And what you're arguing is that

00:07:44.680 starting with the self and starting with our feelings is, is a shaky and an unstable foundation,

00:07:53.800 correct? Yeah, I absolutely agree with that. And you wrote a lot of great stuff in your book about

00:07:59.540 that, obviously, uh, about the self. It becomes, it becomes the center, we become the center of

00:08:05.740 everything. But I think I might even rewind a little further, uh, maybe a lot further to also

00:08:12.360 explain where this worldview, the idea that we matter, where does that even come from? Because

00:08:19.800 a lot of us take for granted that we've grown up in America and the founding principles that,

00:08:25.660 that we believe it's just kind of become part of the way that we think that individuals actually

00:08:30.940 matter. But you, if we rewind before Judaism and you're looking at a world of polytheism, 0.90

00:08:37.820 right, you're looking at a world where gods, I mean, the world was full of chaos because all the

00:08:42.000 gods were warring with each other. And if one god got mad at another god, then there would be a drought.

00:08:48.400 And as an individual, you didn't have inherent meaning. You were just there existing with the

00:08:54.940 chaos of the gods. But in comes Yahweh, who says that you have inherent meaning because you're created

00:09:03.060 in the image of the lawgiver, as you say, of this amazing creator god. Here comes Adoniah, right?

00:09:12.060 All of a sudden, we each matter. And we each are, it's not a deistic god that just created the world

00:09:19.580 and left it alone. It is a god who is personal. And he created each one of us to be the way we are.

00:09:27.000 He created me to have this big, gorgeous beard, okay? He created, that was a joke, by the way.

00:09:33.240 He created you to look the way that you do, that birthmark that you maybe don't like or you do like.

00:09:39.520 God made you that way because each one of us is created with his hands. That's what the psalm says,

00:09:46.080 isn't it? He knit us together in my mother's womb. This is an amazing personal god. And America

00:09:53.540 has been built on this foundation that we have inherent meaning. But if you take that inherent

00:09:59.820 meaning out, then it's just a chaotic world again. And in some ways, I feel, I don't mean that we're

00:10:06.720 kind of devolving back into paganism. I don't really think that's really the right way to say it. But

00:10:11.060 if you take that out of the worldview, then life really changes. And so, as you say,

00:10:16.020 you can't convince somebody to believe this. But I would challenge them, if you do think that you

00:10:21.580 matter, if you do think that you have inherent value, why would that be? I think that's a point

00:10:26.920 worth asking. Yeah, exactly. And if you don't believe that value is inherent, that it's given to us

00:10:34.620 by a creator, by a designer, then who gets to say who's valuable and who's not? And this is just

00:10:41.380 another example of our theological views affecting not just how we view the world, but how we interact

00:10:48.020 with the world and how it affects other people. If you don't believe that we have inherent value that

00:10:51.980 comes from God, then it becomes very easy to dehumanize a group of people such as unborn children.

00:10:58.800 Historically, we've seen it through, we've seen it, that kind of mentality placed upon a lot of people

00:11:04.380 and it ends in suffering, it ends in violence, it ends in oppression. So, your theological views and where

00:11:11.320 you understand truth comes from, where you understand your value and your worth comes from, it's not just

00:11:17.280 about you and your truth. It's about what truth actually is universally and that has an effect

00:11:23.320 universally as well. You would think as we, you know, said a couple minutes ago that the church

00:11:29.380 would understand this because this is very foundational to Christianity. You could even

00:11:33.800 argue this is a Judeo-Christian belief, something that you would think that someone even before they

00:11:38.940 become a Christian is kind of familiar with. And yet, there are people who identify as born-again

00:11:44.040 Christians who kind of take on this whole my truth, your truth view of the world and of scripture. 0.72

00:11:51.480 How did that happen?

00:11:53.760 Yeah, you're absolutely right. And I think you actually said it better than I did. It is Judeo-Christian 0.93

00:11:58.160 values. And in America, we have been built upon that. And so, a lot of people have that sort of

00:12:05.400 understanding without knowing where it comes. In other words, we have the benefit of the country that

00:12:10.080 we've been raised in and these values, but they are changing. And I do think that it is that

00:12:15.120 deconstruction that is a part of postmodernism that has come into all of culture. And it just breaks

00:12:25.540 everything down because it's not, let's see, it's the way that postmodernism has been combined with

00:12:32.940 critical theories. As it has come together and it's created this thing that basically doesn't look at

00:12:41.280 reality the way that it is in order to understand truth. It looks at reality, which under postmodernism

00:12:49.640 is not absolute. It is perceived reality. And it looks to say, how can we change this? In other words,

00:12:57.160 it's a perceived reality. Well, who is making me perceive that? It's the ruling hegemony. And so,

00:13:02.760 it is the ruling culture, if you will, which as we all know, you've been talking about it for years.

00:13:07.820 It's patriarchy. It's the white, heterosexual, cisgendered male Christian. That is the ruling 0.97

00:13:13.920 hegemony under this thing. And the ruling hegemony is pressing their view of reality upon everyone

00:13:20.940 else. So, the deconstruction starts that says, well, what you're telling me is actually true. You just

00:13:26.360 think it's true. You say that 2 plus 2 equals 4 only because that is the ruling culture. But 2 plus 2

00:13:33.520 actually can equal 5 and you can't tell me that's better. In fact, if I've been oppressed, I have a

00:13:39.240 higher understanding of what that truth is. Yeah. That's what this progressive Christian postmodern 0.91

00:13:45.340 Christian movement is all asserting, is that in their deconstruction, what they say they're trying 1.00

00:13:52.560 to do is rather than view the world or rather than view scripture through the hegemony of the

00:14:00.160 patriarchy, now they're trying to either view the scripture through the lens of what they would

00:14:07.520 perceive as the oppressed or through their own view. And so, that's why people go through this

00:14:12.800 deconstructionism of throwing off what they would say is actually a theology of oppression that they

00:14:18.320 might have grown up learning about in the church. And now they're trying to understand

00:14:22.240 what real Christianity looks like. The funny thing is in that deconstruction, what they reconstruct 0.90

00:14:28.120 looks nothing like biblical Christianity. It's very convenient, the parts that they end up throwing out. 0.87

00:14:34.040 It's all the hard stuff. Like, it's all the stuff that is culturally impossible. Like, okay,

00:14:39.140 I'm going to deconstruct, I'll reconstruct without the whole marriage and gender definition,

00:14:44.800 without the whole sanctity of human life definition, without the whole sin and repentance

00:14:49.740 and holiness and even Jesus being the only way truth in the life thing. So, what they reconstruct

00:14:55.720 is not even close to biblical Christianity. It's closer to what you're talking about, this postmodern

00:15:00.220 relativism. And it seems like there's not any freedom and joy found in that because it really

00:15:05.320 comes without the gospel. It does. I agree with you. In fact, I started recently, I stopped calling

00:15:12.180 it progressive Christianity, and I started calling it just in my own little tiny world,

00:15:17.200 postmodern Christianity, because it's the exact same thing. And once you have, you have broken all 0.99

00:15:22.700 the, all they go out, I'm breaking all of it down. I've been fed lies. They've been trying to brainwash

00:15:27.200 me. And then they come up with something that they call Christianity, which is actually not Christianity.

00:15:33.100 It is actually idolatry. It's the same exact thing as in the Old Testament, as to say, we're

00:15:39.540 worshiping God. We're worshiping Yahweh. So, let's build a calf of gold. Let's build an idol,

00:15:46.000 and we're going to worship this calf and call it worshiping Yahweh. That is actually idolatry.

00:15:52.660 So, now, postmodern Christianity just means that you, ruling hegemony, can't tell me what

00:15:58.580 Jesus is. So, all of a sudden, we've begun, under postmodern Christianity, as I call it,

00:16:04.260 to worship Jesus the way we want him to be, which in the end, what does that sound like? That just

00:16:09.780 sounds like worshiping self. That means that I get to be my own God. And let's just be honest,

00:16:15.820 if I could be my own God, well, that sounds kind of fun. In other words, people like the,

00:16:21.160 they like the idea of having the feels, getting the happies about Jesus, but without the Lordship.

00:16:26.740 And Christ calls us not just to be, he doesn't want to just be your Savior. He wants to be your

00:16:32.540 Lord. All right? So, if you can't call him Lord, then you actually are not worshiping the same Jesus.

00:16:38.020 So, it actually really matters. He is Savior, but he is Lord of all.

00:16:43.200 And it's not just progressive or postmodern Christianity that kind of makes Jesus either

00:16:57.600 just your pal or your genie or something like that. It's also a prosperity gospel Christianity,

00:17:03.880 if you could even, you know, call that Christianity. And I don't know if that necessarily splits along

00:17:10.240 left and right lines. Maybe there are more prosperity gospel people who identify as,

00:17:17.380 you know, on the political right. Maybe there are more postmodern Christians. Again, that's a 1.00

00:17:21.640 paradox, but who identify as the political left. But the fact of the matter is that

00:17:25.440 idolatry can show up anywhere on the ideological or political spectrum. Could you talk about,

00:17:32.540 could you talk about also how this can manifest itself, not just in postmodern progressive

00:17:38.080 Christianity, but also in something like the prosperity gospel or other forms of so-called

00:17:44.700 Christian idolatry? I think that's a great point, Allie. I think we have to start with this. And I,

00:17:51.940 since I listened to your podcast, I know you'll agree. We all are involved. I mean, Lord Jesus,

00:17:58.020 help us. We all are involved in idolatry in some kind of a way because we are so deeply flawed.

00:18:04.640 We don't want to be. And I think that the point of every day of reading your Bible

00:18:09.300 and asking God to show you, you know, to take you deeper into sanctification, what can I get rid of

00:18:16.200 in my thought life or in my actions or the way that I view you, that is actually thinking wrong

00:18:22.780 thoughts about God. So at its heart, idolatry is either adding stuff to God or subtracting things

00:18:29.600 from God, is having wrong thoughts about Him. So I guess what I want to say is I want to make it

00:18:35.540 really clear that if we have wrong thoughts about God, God is gracious to us, but we need to begin

00:18:42.680 every day saying, Lord Jesus, what can I do as I read the scriptures? Will you show me who you are

00:18:48.240 so I can have right thinking, which will glorify you more? That's a really important thing to do.

00:18:53.620 But when we get into like deeper idolatry is when we are unwilling to bend our feelings to get in

00:19:03.140 line with the gospel. That is when you read the Bible and you say, well, that's not really the Jesus

00:19:08.920 I prefer. I don't really, I don't really dig that. Well, now you're in a bad form of idolatry. And that

00:19:14.000 comes, like you said, in all shapes and sizes. And in my view, I know a lot of great Christians who

00:19:19.820 are very much healthy, wealthy, blessed, prosperity gospel people, and they really love

00:19:25.960 Christ. One of the things I think that they get wrong, in my opinion, is that they do redefine.

00:19:32.820 I don't think they know they're redefining. Some of them, some of them I think do. But I do believe

00:19:37.560 that some of them don't know they're redefining what it means to be blessed. Okay. Because you can go

00:19:43.720 through trials. You can be in prison for your faith. You can be beaten for your faith. You can be hung

00:19:48.980 upside down on the cross and be blessed and bring glory to God, right? That's what Jesus said about

00:19:56.080 Peter. Right now, I can't remember what book of the Bible it's in, but he's basically telling Peter,

00:20:02.100 this is how you're going to suffer for me. And this is how you're going to bring glory to me.

00:20:06.320 That is an amazing hope because our hope is in eternal life. Our hope is not in having stuff

00:20:12.480 here on earth. And so I think it's an issue of the way that we view what we think we are owed.

00:20:18.020 We are not owed anything, but yet we are given everything in Christ Jesus, right? Everything

00:20:23.480 we need for righteous living and holy living and sanctification. We are not owed anything from God.

00:20:29.660 And God chooses to bless us in whatever way he sees fit. And whatever he sees fit is going to be right.

00:20:37.400 And it's going to be for our good. Don't make me start preaching, Allie.

00:20:41.040 No, I like it. Keep going. I'm just sitting here. I feel like I'm, I feel like I'm listening to a

00:20:45.680 sermon. No, this is so edifying. And I know it's exactly what people need to hear because like how

00:20:50.520 you started this interview, there's so much chaos going on. And, you know, we're actually recording

00:20:56.220 this. People know we're recording this in January. So we're trying not to say time sensitive things,

00:21:01.900 but as we're recording this, you know, there's a lot of chaos going on with the transition between

00:21:06.660 the presidents. There's so much political tension. There has been for a long time. There's been a lot

00:21:11.540 that's gone on in the past year. There's been a lot of people who feel like, okay, the church in

00:21:15.660 America is finally really on the brink of real persecution. Some people feel that way. And even

00:21:22.140 if it depends on your eschatology, but even if you know that that's what's coming, there are people

00:21:27.200 that are very fearful right now. There are people that are very afraid. And I think it's so important

00:21:32.900 that you wrote this book when you did, because the one thing that is going to keep us sane, the one

00:21:37.940 thing that's going to keep us grounded when it seems like everyone else is just tossed up in this

00:21:42.200 hurricane of confusion and postmodernism is the word of God, is the transcendent, eternal truth that

00:21:50.160 God and his word represents. Can you give some encouragement to people that are like, they're just

00:21:55.620 overwhelmed with everything that's going on. They want to do what you're talking about. They want to

00:21:59.100 understand the truth. They don't know where to start. They don't know what to think. They don't know

00:22:02.600 how to battle the anxiety that's in them with everything that they're afraid is coming.

00:22:07.280 Oh man, that is such a, I could talk for an hour about it. I'm sure you picked up on that. I'm a

00:22:12.240 talker. Let me think. I think what I would start with would be this. I, let's see. Oh man, now you're

00:22:19.420 laying it on me here. Okay. I think that a good way to look at this would be to look at the Bible

00:22:25.100 and see the amazing things that God did in the Old Testament. But a lot of theologians say it like

00:22:30.980 this, they say it way better than me, that the Bible is full of disruptions. It is full

00:22:36.380 of God disrupting history in order to bring redemption. And we look at people that we love,

00:22:43.520 like Joseph, right? Joseph is one of those amazing stories we always go back to and we go,

00:22:48.380 God gave him all these promises that were so amazing. They were yes and amen. But Joseph really

00:22:55.660 went through it. How many of us want to go through what Joseph went through? I mean,

00:23:00.500 so the Bible is full of disruptions. What we do know is this, that the victory belongs to God.

00:23:07.600 Christ will be victorious. And that's what we can know. So I've been trying to encourage people.

00:23:13.140 Sometimes for me, it's just, I like to get ready for the fight. Do you know what I mean? If I'm going

00:23:19.700 to play a game of sports, let's say sports. If I'm going to play a game of sports and it's a really

00:23:25.560 serious game, I like to stretch really good before, because you don't know what's coming,

00:23:30.420 right? If you know you're playing somebody that's slow and not any good, well, then maybe I don't

00:23:34.800 take it seriously. If I know I got to have my A game on, I want to be ready for that fight.

00:23:40.760 I want to encourage Christians in this. Christ will be victorious. He is probably going to do things

00:23:46.900 that will disrupt your life. And it may be really difficult. It may be super difficult.

00:23:52.520 It may be worse than you imagined. Nobody really knows. But if you get ready for the wave that is

00:23:57.760 coming, you know, it's like when you're in the ocean. I, you know, as long as I know the wave's

00:24:02.120 coming, it's probably not going to knock me over. It's when I'm not paying attention. I'm, you know,

00:24:06.720 you're a kid, you're waving to your parents, Hey, and that wave knocks you on your, on your keister.

00:24:11.700 And you're like, I didn't, wasn't ready for that. You got to get ready for what's coming. And if that

00:24:18.000 means a little bit of suffering, well, that's okay. It's not like God's not in control. And it's

00:24:22.660 not like God doesn't plan the future, by the way. I know that's a theological discussion, but God has

00:24:28.100 already planned it. And it's going to be for our good because we will become more like Christ and

00:24:33.500 we will bring more glory to his name. So Christians don't, don't be fearful, but don't be naive,

00:24:39.020 be ready to suffer for your faith. Yeah. And that's why, that's why everything you're saying

00:24:44.580 is so important. If we're in God's word, we can look at the history of God's people. And that's not

00:24:49.240 to say America is, is, is modern day Israel. It's not to confuse the church with America. The church

00:24:57.520 is universal. The Catholic little C church, that's the universal church. And he, the, this idea of,

00:25:08.360 you know, religious liberty and free speech, which are such sacred freedoms that we both believe in

00:25:12.640 fighting for and preserving, they have been the exception in world history and in the history of

00:25:17.320 the church, not the rule. And even though I think it's so important to vote for these things personally

00:25:22.020 and to, and to fight for these things, we can take solace in understanding that God's kingdom,

00:25:26.820 that his gospel is not hindered by our political realities. Again, that doesn't mean that there's not

00:25:32.800 going to be suffering. There's not a struggle that things won't happen. You know, like, uh,

00:25:37.240 things won't happen that are against his moral will, but nothing can subvert his sovereign will.

00:25:43.520 And his plan of redemption is going off without a hitch and looking to the word of God and seeing

00:25:50.420 how he has time. And again, when the odds seem to be stacked against him and his people that he

00:25:56.920 always wins and that he always is the one to bring about victory. You mentioned the book of Judges.

00:26:01.840 I'm reading the book of Judges right now. Just finished the book of Joshua. Every victory that

00:26:06.560 they had, God brings it about. And he is very clear about that. He said, you know, I pushed back

00:26:12.420 your enemies. I gave them pestilence. I gave you a land that you didn't work for. I fought a battle

00:26:18.900 that you didn't, in some cases, didn't even have to, you know, lift your sword for. And that's going to

00:26:25.180 be the case for the church. Jesus said on this rock, I will build my church and the gates of hell will

00:26:30.340 not prevail against it. If the gates of hell are not going to prevail against the church,

00:26:34.400 then you know that no political party can, that no earthly regime can. And I love what you said,

00:26:41.460 that the victory is God's. And because the victory is God's, it's guaranteed. So we can have joy and

00:26:46.920 we can have hope even in the midst of all of this craziness. Well, I don't think anything else needs

00:26:53.060 to be said about that. I 100% agree. That's what you see now I'm ready. I'm ready for whatever's

00:26:58.980 coming because I got my truth on right there. Good. That's what, that's what the, that's what

00:27:03.880 the word of God, that's what the word of God does though. And we're so, I mean, how grateful can we

00:27:09.440 be there at places in the world that, you know, they can't access, they can't access scripture or

00:27:14.580 they can't access scripture safely. In China, for example, they tried to rewrite the Bible. So it's 0.94

00:27:19.800 more communist friendly, taking away anything about, you know, personal responsibility or anything that

00:27:24.680 the CCP might not like. We're not there yet in America. So while, while we can freely and safely,

00:27:32.300 I mean, let's consume our Bibles, like let's consume the truth as much as we can and hide his

00:27:38.100 word in our heart. I think that your book is a perfect accompaniment to that. Obviously we never

00:27:44.400 advocate for replacing the Bible with anything, but this is, I think a really good starting place

00:27:49.800 for a lot of people, but even if you have been a Christian for 25 years, this is a good reminder

00:27:54.800 about where the church is, the challenges that either you or maybe your kids are facing right

00:27:59.620 now, the questions that they're facing. Can you tell us more, anything more about the book,

00:28:04.140 anything more that you really want people to know about this and of course where they can get it and

00:28:08.380 all that good stuff? Well, thank you so much. You know, I, I do think that this book is very much,

00:28:14.180 it's really good for a high school people. It's good for college people or people who haven't

00:28:22.340 necessarily studied theology, you know, people who haven't been sitting there and can, and can explain

00:28:27.060 the entire Roman road and things like that, or whatever you want to call it, because it takes

00:28:32.420 you through basic theology of original sin, why we shouldn't trust our feelings. What true love

00:28:40.320 actually is. Love is not what, uh, what the world is telling us it is right now that yes,

00:28:45.600 we believe in a loving God, but he is also a God that loves holiness, things like that. It explains

00:28:51.600 why, um, the world is kind of the way it is, the way the world sees truth versus the way that the Bible

00:28:57.740 explains what reality is. And it ends with sort of a presentation of this is what it means

00:29:03.900 to follow Christ. This is what it means to build your life on his word. So I think it's quite

00:29:09.780 evangelistic, but I would say it's great if you've got a high school kid or a junior high school kid

00:29:15.280 or a college kid, um, or a friend that doesn't understand those things. Uh, so I think that

00:29:20.560 that's, to me, that's pretty important because what I, what I found out was that even a lot of

00:29:25.420 really a lot of a young, uh, I would say young Gen Xers and millennials, even that have been in church,

00:29:31.640 I mean, don't really understand what the Bible says. They might say they're following Christ,

00:29:36.360 but they don't understand their faith. This will explain it to you easily. Maybe you can't sit

00:29:40.540 through John Calvin book. You can sit through my book. So, uh, you can go to my website,

00:29:45.480 John L Cooper.com slash awake. Yes. And I think it's so important to explain those foundational

00:29:52.020 truths. I think, um, you know, it's easy to take those things for granted and just assume that people

00:29:57.520 who grew up in the church know what original sin is. But the fact of the matter is that I know there

00:30:02.500 are people, I went to a Christian school, kindergarten through 12th grade, very thankful

00:30:06.100 for that was raised in the church. I know some people who have that exact same background who

00:30:10.860 could not, who could not tell you what the Bible says. I have friends who grew up in the Catholic

00:30:15.580 church who would say, we really didn't open a Bible very often. So just remember, especially those of 0.99

00:30:22.020 you out there who, who do know the word of God, you're friends who say that they're Christians.

00:30:25.740 Um, but maybe you're wondering, okay, that's, you know, their life isn't really aligned with that.

00:30:31.280 Maybe, maybe God has you in their life to help guide them through just the basic principles of

00:30:37.900 a biblical Christianity, things that we can all be reminded of. Even if we've been walking with

00:30:42.880 Christ for 30 years, by the way, I love what a pastor said a few years ago. We never graduate from

00:30:48.400 the gospel. We just move deeper into the gospel. And I think that's exactly what your book

00:30:53.500 allows us to do for such a time as this and all of this chaos. Um, thank you so much.

00:30:58.800 You also have a podcast. So tell people about that and, uh, you know, Twitter, social media

00:31:03.540 and all that good stuff. Oh, sure. Yeah. The podcast is called Cooper stuff podcast. It looks

00:31:09.280 like this right behind me. And, um, we talk about similar things actually, as you do, Allie, I'm not,

00:31:16.360 as, uh, you know, a lot more about politics than me. I mainly talk about culture and where that,

00:31:23.060 that interplay of faith and culture comes. And I just basically theology for, for dumb people like 0.99

00:31:29.240 me. That's not true. That's not, I just, I mean, everyone already knows they finished the interview. 0.99

00:31:34.940 And so they know that that's not an accurate description, but you sell yourself short, but you

00:31:40.640 are only really smart. People can break down complicated topics in a way that makes sense

00:31:45.780 to the average person. And that makes you especially smart because you do that really well. You don't make

00:31:52.000 people feel stupid for maybe not knowing some complex theological and cultural things. And,

00:31:58.100 you know, that's why a lot of people don't listen to reformed Christians because they they're

00:32:02.920 intimidated or they feel like, you know, condescended, but you are so down to earth and so

00:32:09.340 relatable. That's why I have you on the podcast. Um, and so you're, you're really, really good. It

00:32:14.940 does at, uh, explaining everything. So thank you so much. Thanks for your ministry and everything that

00:32:19.640 you do. Well, thank you, Ali. Likewise. I'm so, it's such an honor to be on here. Thanks for doing

00:32:24.720 it. And you know, I'm a fan. I listen, uh, almost literally to every episode. So keep up the good

00:32:30.600 work. Thank you. Thank you so much.

Relatable with Allie Beth Stuckey - May 17, 2021

Ep 421 ｜ When Culture's Confused, Christians Shouldn't Be ｜ Guest： John Cooper

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