Ep 421 ｜ When Culture's Confused, Christians Shouldn't Be ｜ Guest： John Cooper
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Summary
In this episode of Relatable, John Cooper talks about his new book, Awakened Alive to Truth, and why he believes that there is a truth that never changes and that is unshakable in the face of uncertainty.
Transcript
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Hey guys, welcome to Relatable. Hope everyone is having a great day. Today I am talking again
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to the lead singer of Skillet, John Cooper. He also is an author. He's a podcaster. I've
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had him on the show before. In the last episode that I had him on was super popular. You guys
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loved him. Today we're continuing that conversation, talking about some new stuff as well. As much as
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you loved that first interview, you are going to love this one even more. I'm so excited for you
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to listen to it. Without further ado, here is John Cooper. John, thank you so much for joining me
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again. It's so good to be here with you again. I love it. It's a good honor. It's the best thing
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of 2021 so far. Oh my gosh. Wow. That is an honor to hear you say that. Well, we are going to talk
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about, we've talked about your book before it came out, but now that it's been out for a little
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while, I want to, I want to recap my audience on, on what the book is. I have it actually right in
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front of me, why you wrote the book, kind of what the reception has been and how you think it speaks
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to the cultural moment that we're in right now. Well, that's so nice. Thank you. Yeah. The book is
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called Awaken Alive to Truth. You know this because you've written a book. It's funny when
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you get it and you start recognizing all the typos. I know. I know. I've been there. I know.
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But no one else does. I, you know, I've seen typos in my book and no one else has ever brought up a
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typo. And so just understand that, that it's just you who notices it. Oh, maybe that's true. Maybe
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it's like when you, you play on stage, you know, and being, you know, that you're hitting all those
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wrong notes and we're still screaming, but, um, well, hopefully they're screaming if they ever
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go to concerts anyway. Um, but the point is the book is Awaken Alive to Truth. I'm very passionate
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about this, this shift that has happened in the way, not just in America, but all over the world
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and the way that we view what truth even is. And, you know, for a lot of older people, I would say
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people, generation X or boomers, it is taking a really long time for, to under, for us to
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understand, uh, I'm 45 to understand what in the world was going on, uh, because we're not just
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arguing about what is true. We are arguing about, is there such a thing as absolute truth? And it's
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the way that that philosophy has entered into the church, which is what I'm most passionate about.
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I mean, I am passionate about it for the, the implications to culture, but the way it has
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infected the church has been so heartbreaking. So I wrote this book to explain a few of the
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philosophies, but also a path to eternal truth, a truth that never changes, that is fixed. And
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doesn't that sound good in a time of absolute volatility where we can't trust anything? Nobody
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knows what to trust. You turn on the news and you're like, yeah, I don't know if I'm being fed a
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lie. Everybody has their own conspiracy theories. Everybody has their own tribe because no one
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trusts any of the institutions. Doesn't it sound good to have a truth that never changes? And I
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believe we have that in the word of God, um, on the words of Jesus Christ and in the Bible. So
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that's what this book is about. I really hope it, uh, strengthens people's faith, but I also hope
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it's evangelistic that people could read it and say, oh my gosh, there really is a truth that never
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changes that I could build my life upon. And I could be unshakable. That sounds really wonderful.
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And the truth of Christ is really wonderful. What do you say to people who say, okay, yeah,
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that, that does sound all well and good, but I can't, I can't trust the Bible. It was just written
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by a bunch of men. How do I know that Christianity is truth? Why can't I just live my truth? Why can't
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I just pick and choose from the different faiths and different worldviews, what sound good to me
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and build my life based on that? Isn't that more liberating? Isn't that more freeing? Isn't that
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more, um, solid and trustworthy? What do you, what do you say to that person who has those questions?
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I would, I would probably just say like, look at the world. I mean, how's that working out?
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Yeah. Right. How's that going? Yeah. I mean, I understand. I'm not mocking people who believe that
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because that, that is sort of logical, right? Um, you, I can't convince anybody that the Bible
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is real. Um, and, and I don't even have the power to do that anyway. Right. That's that power belongs
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to God, of course. But the point is, is that I'm not mocking people for thinking that, but I am
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saying, Hey, open up your eyes, take a look at the world. This is what happens when everybody believes
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they have their own truth. If you have your own truth, then that means you will have your own
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justice. It's only logical because you go, well, I don't, I don't care what somebody else says.
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I don't care what they think. This is what I know to be true. And if I know it in my heart,
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then anything that I do to make it so would therefore be moral. So I guess it's kind of
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wrapped up in this philosophy of postmodernism that is just so, oh, it's so divisive. And it just
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breaks down, it breaks down, it etches down everything in culture that everyone, you know,
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all the commonality. And we see that, of course, in the church, but we also see it in the world. So
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that is the reason that no one can decide is burning a building violence or not. Some people
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say yes. Some people say no. What about when it's your building? And then they go, well, that's
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different because of fill in the blank. That's different because of racial justice, or you just
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fill in the blank with whatever it is that in your mind supersedes everyone else's version. And so if you
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have your own truth claim as an individual that is higher than everybody else's, then you'll have
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your own justice claim. And now we are in a world of chaos where everyone, just like the book of
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Judges says, everyone did what was seemed right in their hearts. And that leads to chaos. And we are
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seeing that in the church. And that is what I am most devastated about. Yeah. You expect to see
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something like what you just described, that kind of relativism from the world, because they're not
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starting on the foundation of the word of God. They don't believe in the, you know, as C.S. Lewis
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talks about the great moral lawgiver that says what is and what isn't, what's right and what's wrong,
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what's good and what's bad. They are starting from a place of, you know, kind of secular humanism that
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just says we're just these evolved kind of clumps of matter and therefore meaning and purpose and
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belonging and right and wrong are all determined by, you know, what we feel and maybe even what advances
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society. But what you are pointing out so well is that I think a lot of people who have that mentality
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of, well, my truth is good for me. Your truth is good for you. And why do you care what I think? Just
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kind of let me be. They see their existence as, as just an individual inside their own little universe
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in their own little ecosphere. But the fact of the matter is, is that we're interdependent. Like we live in
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societies, we live in communities. And so whatever your truth is, that affects how you behave and how
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you behave affects other people. It affects how you vote. It affects, uh, that what you think like
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about, you know, riots and chaos and policies and all of these things that doesn't just affect you,
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that affects everyone. And so it actually is so important as you are, as you are pointing out,
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for us to have a worldview and to know where our worldview starts. And what you're arguing is that
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starting with the self and starting with our feelings is, is a shaky and an unstable foundation,
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correct? Yeah, I absolutely agree with that. And you wrote a lot of great stuff in your book about
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that, obviously, uh, about the self. It becomes, it becomes the center, we become the center of
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everything. But I think I might even rewind a little further, uh, maybe a lot further to also
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explain where this worldview, the idea that we matter, where does that even come from? Because
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a lot of us take for granted that we've grown up in America and the founding principles that,
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that we believe it's just kind of become part of the way that we think that individuals actually
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matter. But you, if we rewind before Judaism and you're looking at a world of polytheism,
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right, you're looking at a world where gods, I mean, the world was full of chaos because all the
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gods were warring with each other. And if one god got mad at another god, then there would be a drought.
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And as an individual, you didn't have inherent meaning. You were just there existing with the
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chaos of the gods. But in comes Yahweh, who says that you have inherent meaning because you're created
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in the image of the lawgiver, as you say, of this amazing creator god. Here comes Adoniah, right?
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All of a sudden, we each matter. And we each are, it's not a deistic god that just created the world
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and left it alone. It is a god who is personal. And he created each one of us to be the way we are.
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He created me to have this big, gorgeous beard, okay? He created, that was a joke, by the way.
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He created you to look the way that you do, that birthmark that you maybe don't like or you do like.
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God made you that way because each one of us is created with his hands. That's what the psalm says,
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isn't it? He knit us together in my mother's womb. This is an amazing personal god. And America
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has been built on this foundation that we have inherent meaning. But if you take that inherent
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meaning out, then it's just a chaotic world again. And in some ways, I feel, I don't mean that we're
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kind of devolving back into paganism. I don't really think that's really the right way to say it. But
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if you take that out of the worldview, then life really changes. And so, as you say,
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you can't convince somebody to believe this. But I would challenge them, if you do think that you
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matter, if you do think that you have inherent value, why would that be? I think that's a point
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worth asking. Yeah, exactly. And if you don't believe that value is inherent, that it's given to us
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by a creator, by a designer, then who gets to say who's valuable and who's not? And this is just
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another example of our theological views affecting not just how we view the world, but how we interact
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with the world and how it affects other people. If you don't believe that we have inherent value that
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comes from God, then it becomes very easy to dehumanize a group of people such as unborn children.
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Historically, we've seen it through, we've seen it, that kind of mentality placed upon a lot of people
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and it ends in suffering, it ends in violence, it ends in oppression. So, your theological views and where
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you understand truth comes from, where you understand your value and your worth comes from, it's not just
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about you and your truth. It's about what truth actually is universally and that has an effect
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universally as well. You would think as we, you know, said a couple minutes ago that the church
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would understand this because this is very foundational to Christianity. You could even
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argue this is a Judeo-Christian belief, something that you would think that someone even before they
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become a Christian is kind of familiar with. And yet, there are people who identify as born-again
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Christians who kind of take on this whole my truth, your truth view of the world and of scripture.
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Yeah, you're absolutely right. And I think you actually said it better than I did. It is Judeo-Christian
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values. And in America, we have been built upon that. And so, a lot of people have that sort of
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understanding without knowing where it comes. In other words, we have the benefit of the country that
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we've been raised in and these values, but they are changing. And I do think that it is that
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deconstruction that is a part of postmodernism that has come into all of culture. And it just breaks
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everything down because it's not, let's see, it's the way that postmodernism has been combined with
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critical theories. As it has come together and it's created this thing that basically doesn't look at
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reality the way that it is in order to understand truth. It looks at reality, which under postmodernism
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is not absolute. It is perceived reality. And it looks to say, how can we change this? In other words,
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it's a perceived reality. Well, who is making me perceive that? It's the ruling hegemony. And so,
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it is the ruling culture, if you will, which as we all know, you've been talking about it for years.
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It's patriarchy. It's the white, heterosexual, cisgendered male Christian. That is the ruling
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hegemony under this thing. And the ruling hegemony is pressing their view of reality upon everyone
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else. So, the deconstruction starts that says, well, what you're telling me is actually true. You just
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think it's true. You say that 2 plus 2 equals 4 only because that is the ruling culture. But 2 plus 2
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actually can equal 5 and you can't tell me that's better. In fact, if I've been oppressed, I have a
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higher understanding of what that truth is. Yeah. That's what this progressive Christian postmodern
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Christian movement is all asserting, is that in their deconstruction, what they say they're trying
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to do is rather than view the world or rather than view scripture through the hegemony of the
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patriarchy, now they're trying to either view the scripture through the lens of what they would
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perceive as the oppressed or through their own view. And so, that's why people go through this
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deconstructionism of throwing off what they would say is actually a theology of oppression that they
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might have grown up learning about in the church. And now they're trying to understand
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what real Christianity looks like. The funny thing is in that deconstruction, what they reconstruct
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looks nothing like biblical Christianity. It's very convenient, the parts that they end up throwing out.
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It's all the hard stuff. Like, it's all the stuff that is culturally impossible. Like, okay,
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I'm going to deconstruct, I'll reconstruct without the whole marriage and gender definition,
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without the whole sanctity of human life definition, without the whole sin and repentance
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and holiness and even Jesus being the only way truth in the life thing. So, what they reconstruct
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is not even close to biblical Christianity. It's closer to what you're talking about, this postmodern
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relativism. And it seems like there's not any freedom and joy found in that because it really
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comes without the gospel. It does. I agree with you. In fact, I started recently, I stopped calling
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it progressive Christianity, and I started calling it just in my own little tiny world,
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postmodern Christianity, because it's the exact same thing. And once you have, you have broken all
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the, all they go out, I'm breaking all of it down. I've been fed lies. They've been trying to brainwash
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me. And then they come up with something that they call Christianity, which is actually not Christianity.
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It is actually idolatry. It's the same exact thing as in the Old Testament, as to say, we're
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worshiping God. We're worshiping Yahweh. So, let's build a calf of gold. Let's build an idol,
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and we're going to worship this calf and call it worshiping Yahweh. That is actually idolatry.
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So, now, postmodern Christianity just means that you, ruling hegemony, can't tell me what
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Jesus is. So, all of a sudden, we've begun, under postmodern Christianity, as I call it,
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to worship Jesus the way we want him to be, which in the end, what does that sound like? That just
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sounds like worshiping self. That means that I get to be my own God. And let's just be honest,
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if I could be my own God, well, that sounds kind of fun. In other words, people like the,
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they like the idea of having the feels, getting the happies about Jesus, but without the Lordship.
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And Christ calls us not just to be, he doesn't want to just be your Savior. He wants to be your
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Lord. All right? So, if you can't call him Lord, then you actually are not worshiping the same Jesus.
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So, it actually really matters. He is Savior, but he is Lord of all.
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And it's not just progressive or postmodern Christianity that kind of makes Jesus either
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just your pal or your genie or something like that. It's also a prosperity gospel Christianity,
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if you could even, you know, call that Christianity. And I don't know if that necessarily splits along
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left and right lines. Maybe there are more prosperity gospel people who identify as,
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you know, on the political right. Maybe there are more postmodern Christians. Again, that's a
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paradox, but who identify as the political left. But the fact of the matter is that
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idolatry can show up anywhere on the ideological or political spectrum. Could you talk about,
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could you talk about also how this can manifest itself, not just in postmodern progressive
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Christianity, but also in something like the prosperity gospel or other forms of so-called
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Christian idolatry? I think that's a great point, Allie. I think we have to start with this. And I,
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since I listened to your podcast, I know you'll agree. We all are involved. I mean, Lord Jesus,
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help us. We all are involved in idolatry in some kind of a way because we are so deeply flawed.
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We don't want to be. And I think that the point of every day of reading your Bible
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and asking God to show you, you know, to take you deeper into sanctification, what can I get rid of
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in my thought life or in my actions or the way that I view you, that is actually thinking wrong
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thoughts about God. So at its heart, idolatry is either adding stuff to God or subtracting things
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from God, is having wrong thoughts about Him. So I guess what I want to say is I want to make it
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really clear that if we have wrong thoughts about God, God is gracious to us, but we need to begin
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every day saying, Lord Jesus, what can I do as I read the scriptures? Will you show me who you are
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so I can have right thinking, which will glorify you more? That's a really important thing to do.
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But when we get into like deeper idolatry is when we are unwilling to bend our feelings to get in
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line with the gospel. That is when you read the Bible and you say, well, that's not really the Jesus
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I prefer. I don't really, I don't really dig that. Well, now you're in a bad form of idolatry. And that
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comes, like you said, in all shapes and sizes. And in my view, I know a lot of great Christians who
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are very much healthy, wealthy, blessed, prosperity gospel people, and they really love
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Christ. One of the things I think that they get wrong, in my opinion, is that they do redefine.
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I don't think they know they're redefining. Some of them, some of them I think do. But I do believe
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that some of them don't know they're redefining what it means to be blessed. Okay. Because you can go
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through trials. You can be in prison for your faith. You can be beaten for your faith. You can be hung
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upside down on the cross and be blessed and bring glory to God, right? That's what Jesus said about
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Peter. Right now, I can't remember what book of the Bible it's in, but he's basically telling Peter,
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this is how you're going to suffer for me. And this is how you're going to bring glory to me.
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That is an amazing hope because our hope is in eternal life. Our hope is not in having stuff
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here on earth. And so I think it's an issue of the way that we view what we think we are owed.
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We are not owed anything, but yet we are given everything in Christ Jesus, right? Everything
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we need for righteous living and holy living and sanctification. We are not owed anything from God.
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And God chooses to bless us in whatever way he sees fit. And whatever he sees fit is going to be right.
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And it's going to be for our good. Don't make me start preaching, Allie.
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No, I like it. Keep going. I'm just sitting here. I feel like I'm, I feel like I'm listening to a
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sermon. No, this is so edifying. And I know it's exactly what people need to hear because like how
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you started this interview, there's so much chaos going on. And, you know, we're actually recording
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this. People know we're recording this in January. So we're trying not to say time sensitive things,
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but as we're recording this, you know, there's a lot of chaos going on with the transition between
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the presidents. There's so much political tension. There has been for a long time. There's been a lot
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that's gone on in the past year. There's been a lot of people who feel like, okay, the church in
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America is finally really on the brink of real persecution. Some people feel that way. And even
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if it depends on your eschatology, but even if you know that that's what's coming, there are people
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that are very fearful right now. There are people that are very afraid. And I think it's so important
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that you wrote this book when you did, because the one thing that is going to keep us sane, the one
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thing that's going to keep us grounded when it seems like everyone else is just tossed up in this
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hurricane of confusion and postmodernism is the word of God, is the transcendent, eternal truth that
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God and his word represents. Can you give some encouragement to people that are like, they're just
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overwhelmed with everything that's going on. They want to do what you're talking about. They want to
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understand the truth. They don't know where to start. They don't know what to think. They don't know
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how to battle the anxiety that's in them with everything that they're afraid is coming.
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Oh man, that is such a, I could talk for an hour about it. I'm sure you picked up on that. I'm a
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talker. Let me think. I think what I would start with would be this. I, let's see. Oh man, now you're
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laying it on me here. Okay. I think that a good way to look at this would be to look at the Bible
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and see the amazing things that God did in the Old Testament. But a lot of theologians say it like
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this, they say it way better than me, that the Bible is full of disruptions. It is full
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of God disrupting history in order to bring redemption. And we look at people that we love,
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like Joseph, right? Joseph is one of those amazing stories we always go back to and we go,
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God gave him all these promises that were so amazing. They were yes and amen. But Joseph really
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went through it. How many of us want to go through what Joseph went through? I mean,
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so the Bible is full of disruptions. What we do know is this, that the victory belongs to God.
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Christ will be victorious. And that's what we can know. So I've been trying to encourage people.
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Sometimes for me, it's just, I like to get ready for the fight. Do you know what I mean? If I'm going
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to play a game of sports, let's say sports. If I'm going to play a game of sports and it's a really
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serious game, I like to stretch really good before, because you don't know what's coming,
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right? If you know you're playing somebody that's slow and not any good, well, then maybe I don't
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take it seriously. If I know I got to have my A game on, I want to be ready for that fight.
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I want to encourage Christians in this. Christ will be victorious. He is probably going to do things
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that will disrupt your life. And it may be really difficult. It may be super difficult.
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It may be worse than you imagined. Nobody really knows. But if you get ready for the wave that is
00:23:57.760
coming, you know, it's like when you're in the ocean. I, you know, as long as I know the wave's
00:24:02.120
coming, it's probably not going to knock me over. It's when I'm not paying attention. I'm, you know,
00:24:06.720
you're a kid, you're waving to your parents, Hey, and that wave knocks you on your, on your keister.
00:24:11.700
And you're like, I didn't, wasn't ready for that. You got to get ready for what's coming. And if that
00:24:18.000
means a little bit of suffering, well, that's okay. It's not like God's not in control. And it's
00:24:22.660
not like God doesn't plan the future, by the way. I know that's a theological discussion, but God has
00:24:28.100
already planned it. And it's going to be for our good because we will become more like Christ and
00:24:33.500
we will bring more glory to his name. So Christians don't, don't be fearful, but don't be naive,
00:24:39.020
be ready to suffer for your faith. Yeah. And that's why, that's why everything you're saying
00:24:44.580
is so important. If we're in God's word, we can look at the history of God's people. And that's not
00:24:49.240
to say America is, is, is modern day Israel. It's not to confuse the church with America. The church
00:24:57.520
is universal. The Catholic little C church, that's the universal church. And he, the, this idea of,
00:25:08.360
you know, religious liberty and free speech, which are such sacred freedoms that we both believe in
00:25:12.640
fighting for and preserving, they have been the exception in world history and in the history of
00:25:17.320
the church, not the rule. And even though I think it's so important to vote for these things personally
00:25:22.020
and to, and to fight for these things, we can take solace in understanding that God's kingdom,
00:25:26.820
that his gospel is not hindered by our political realities. Again, that doesn't mean that there's not
00:25:32.800
going to be suffering. There's not a struggle that things won't happen. You know, like, uh,
00:25:37.240
things won't happen that are against his moral will, but nothing can subvert his sovereign will.
00:25:43.520
And his plan of redemption is going off without a hitch and looking to the word of God and seeing
00:25:50.420
how he has time. And again, when the odds seem to be stacked against him and his people that he
00:25:56.920
always wins and that he always is the one to bring about victory. You mentioned the book of Judges.
00:26:01.840
I'm reading the book of Judges right now. Just finished the book of Joshua. Every victory that
00:26:06.560
they had, God brings it about. And he is very clear about that. He said, you know, I pushed back
00:26:12.420
your enemies. I gave them pestilence. I gave you a land that you didn't work for. I fought a battle
00:26:18.900
that you didn't, in some cases, didn't even have to, you know, lift your sword for. And that's going to
00:26:25.180
be the case for the church. Jesus said on this rock, I will build my church and the gates of hell will
00:26:30.340
not prevail against it. If the gates of hell are not going to prevail against the church,
00:26:34.400
then you know that no political party can, that no earthly regime can. And I love what you said,
00:26:41.460
that the victory is God's. And because the victory is God's, it's guaranteed. So we can have joy and
00:26:46.920
we can have hope even in the midst of all of this craziness. Well, I don't think anything else needs
00:26:53.060
to be said about that. I 100% agree. That's what you see now I'm ready. I'm ready for whatever's
00:26:58.980
coming because I got my truth on right there. Good. That's what, that's what the, that's what
00:27:03.880
the word of God, that's what the word of God does though. And we're so, I mean, how grateful can we
00:27:09.440
be there at places in the world that, you know, they can't access, they can't access scripture or
00:27:14.580
they can't access scripture safely. In China, for example, they tried to rewrite the Bible. So it's
00:27:19.800
more communist friendly, taking away anything about, you know, personal responsibility or anything that
00:27:24.680
the CCP might not like. We're not there yet in America. So while, while we can freely and safely,
00:27:32.300
I mean, let's consume our Bibles, like let's consume the truth as much as we can and hide his
00:27:38.100
word in our heart. I think that your book is a perfect accompaniment to that. Obviously we never
00:27:44.400
advocate for replacing the Bible with anything, but this is, I think a really good starting place
00:27:49.800
for a lot of people, but even if you have been a Christian for 25 years, this is a good reminder
00:27:54.800
about where the church is, the challenges that either you or maybe your kids are facing right
00:27:59.620
now, the questions that they're facing. Can you tell us more, anything more about the book,
00:28:04.140
anything more that you really want people to know about this and of course where they can get it and
00:28:08.380
all that good stuff? Well, thank you so much. You know, I, I do think that this book is very much,
00:28:14.180
it's really good for a high school people. It's good for college people or people who haven't
00:28:22.340
necessarily studied theology, you know, people who haven't been sitting there and can, and can explain
00:28:27.060
the entire Roman road and things like that, or whatever you want to call it, because it takes
00:28:32.420
you through basic theology of original sin, why we shouldn't trust our feelings. What true love
00:28:40.320
actually is. Love is not what, uh, what the world is telling us it is right now that yes,
00:28:45.600
we believe in a loving God, but he is also a God that loves holiness, things like that. It explains
00:28:51.600
why, um, the world is kind of the way it is, the way the world sees truth versus the way that the Bible
00:28:57.740
explains what reality is. And it ends with sort of a presentation of this is what it means
00:29:03.900
to follow Christ. This is what it means to build your life on his word. So I think it's quite
00:29:09.780
evangelistic, but I would say it's great if you've got a high school kid or a junior high school kid
00:29:15.280
or a college kid, um, or a friend that doesn't understand those things. Uh, so I think that
00:29:20.560
that's, to me, that's pretty important because what I, what I found out was that even a lot of
00:29:25.420
really a lot of a young, uh, I would say young Gen Xers and millennials, even that have been in church,
00:29:31.640
I mean, don't really understand what the Bible says. They might say they're following Christ,
00:29:36.360
but they don't understand their faith. This will explain it to you easily. Maybe you can't sit
00:29:40.540
through John Calvin book. You can sit through my book. So, uh, you can go to my website,
00:29:45.480
John L Cooper.com slash awake. Yes. And I think it's so important to explain those foundational
00:29:52.020
truths. I think, um, you know, it's easy to take those things for granted and just assume that people
00:29:57.520
who grew up in the church know what original sin is. But the fact of the matter is that I know there
00:30:02.500
are people, I went to a Christian school, kindergarten through 12th grade, very thankful
00:30:06.100
for that was raised in the church. I know some people who have that exact same background who
00:30:10.860
could not, who could not tell you what the Bible says. I have friends who grew up in the Catholic
00:30:15.580
church who would say, we really didn't open a Bible very often. So just remember, especially those of
00:30:22.020
you out there who, who do know the word of God, you're friends who say that they're Christians.
00:30:25.740
Um, but maybe you're wondering, okay, that's, you know, their life isn't really aligned with that.
00:30:31.280
Maybe, maybe God has you in their life to help guide them through just the basic principles of
00:30:37.900
a biblical Christianity, things that we can all be reminded of. Even if we've been walking with
00:30:42.880
Christ for 30 years, by the way, I love what a pastor said a few years ago. We never graduate from
00:30:48.400
the gospel. We just move deeper into the gospel. And I think that's exactly what your book
00:30:53.500
allows us to do for such a time as this and all of this chaos. Um, thank you so much.
00:30:58.800
You also have a podcast. So tell people about that and, uh, you know, Twitter, social media
00:31:03.540
and all that good stuff. Oh, sure. Yeah. The podcast is called Cooper stuff podcast. It looks
00:31:09.280
like this right behind me. And, um, we talk about similar things actually, as you do, Allie, I'm not,
00:31:16.360
as, uh, you know, a lot more about politics than me. I mainly talk about culture and where that,
00:31:23.060
that interplay of faith and culture comes. And I just basically theology for, for dumb people like
00:31:29.240
me. That's not true. That's not, I just, I mean, everyone already knows they finished the interview.
00:31:34.940
And so they know that that's not an accurate description, but you sell yourself short, but you
00:31:40.640
are only really smart. People can break down complicated topics in a way that makes sense
00:31:45.780
to the average person. And that makes you especially smart because you do that really well. You don't make
00:31:52.000
people feel stupid for maybe not knowing some complex theological and cultural things. And,
00:31:58.100
you know, that's why a lot of people don't listen to reformed Christians because they they're
00:32:02.920
intimidated or they feel like, you know, condescended, but you are so down to earth and so
00:32:09.340
relatable. That's why I have you on the podcast. Um, and so you're, you're really, really good. It
00:32:14.940
does at, uh, explaining everything. So thank you so much. Thanks for your ministry and everything that
00:32:19.640
you do. Well, thank you, Ali. Likewise. I'm so, it's such an honor to be on here. Thanks for doing
00:32:24.720
it. And you know, I'm a fan. I listen, uh, almost literally to every episode. So keep up the good