Relatable with Allie Beth Stuckey - Ep 423 ｜ Feminists vs. Radical Gender Ideology

00:00:00.000 Hey guys, welcome to Relatable. Hope everyone's having a wonderful day. I am so excited for

00:00:14.280 you to listen to this conversation with Megan Murphy. She is a podcaster. She is a writer.

00:00:20.420 She is an activist for women's rights. And she was, she has been kind of exiled because

00:00:29.280 of her views on gender activism and quote, gender identity. And so we're going to talk

00:00:33.960 all about that today. We're going to talk about the parts of feminism that she has started

00:00:37.900 to question the parts of progressivism that she has started to question since she has

00:00:42.480 kind of been pushed to the side by her former political allies and former fellow feminists.

00:00:48.920 And so I'm really excited for you to just glean a lot of wisdom from her. And I think a lot

00:00:53.900 of courage as well. She embodies a whole lot of courage and she's got some good advice

00:00:58.680 for us at the end. So without further ado, here is Megan Murphy.

00:01:07.500 Megan, thank you so much for joining me. I have been wanting to interview you for a very

00:01:12.520 long time. Can you tell everyone who may not be familiar who you are and what you do?

00:01:17.060 I'm Megan Murphy. Um, I, uh, ran, uh, well, I still run a feminist website called feminist

00:01:26.580 current, um, out of Canada. Uh, I have a podcast and a YouTube show called the same drugs. Um,

00:01:33.660 I'm probably most, maybe, maybe most well known for getting kicked off of Twitter for understanding

00:01:39.780 the difference between men and women. So I don't know. Is that a good intro? I'm a writer. I write

00:01:46.400 for the spectator sometimes. Um,

00:01:49.020 Yes, that is, that's a great introduction. I think that is probably where I, I, I heard of you first.

00:01:55.840 That might be where a lot of people know your name from. I know you're probably tired of telling

00:02:00.880 the story and like rehashing this over and over again, but for those who don't know, can you tell

00:02:06.240 them why you got kicked off of Twitter? I don't know how many years ago it was now a couple of years

00:02:11.240 ago. Yeah, it was at the end of 2018. Um, and I essentially was kicked off for, I mean, the,

00:02:19.820 the funny thing is that I still don't actually know. I don't technically know what rule I broke

00:02:26.900 because Twitter never told me like you just get one of those form responses that says you broke a

00:02:33.240 rule for hateful conduct. Um, so, you know, essentially I was kicked off for speaking critically

00:02:40.500 about gender identity ideology. So, you know, I refuse to pretend that men can become women.

00:02:47.940 It's not possible. I refuse to be, to pretend that it's possible to change biological sex. Um,

00:02:54.780 primarily what I was speaking out about were laws and policies that would, um, effectively,

00:03:03.720 uh, you know, it would harm women and girls would, um, harm women's rights would put an end to women's

00:03:12.100 sex-based rights. And I said, one of the tweets that I was suspended for was men aren't women though.

00:03:20.960 Um, I wasn't attacking anyone. I was just engaging in a conversation. Uh, and the one that finally got me

00:03:28.020 kicked off was when I referred to a male named Jonathan Yaniv, who is now calling himself Jessica Yaniv,

00:03:36.920 who is predatorial, who's a grifter, who's an all around, uh, a bad person, a person who is trying

00:03:46.680 to coerce female estheticians into waxing his balls. Um, to put it bluntly, um, I referred to him

00:03:57.500 as he, and then I was permanently banned from the platform. And this is a man who looks like a man

00:04:03.880 at the time he was still using his male pronouns in his social media accounts. Um, you know, he hadn't

00:04:11.840 medically transitioned or anything like that. I don't think I even knew that he was, you know,

00:04:18.580 trying to pass himself as a woman. And that was that I got a foreign response. I appealed,

00:04:25.060 I got another foreign response. We, we tried to sue in California. Um, we lost that case. Uh,

00:04:33.640 you know, like I, I, I still don't totally understand the situation because again, I've not,

00:04:41.140 I don't, I don't know if there was a rule against, um, referring to males as he, if they didn't want to

00:04:49.580 be referred to in that way. Uh, the, the day that I got kicked off, I, there was a, a news report,

00:04:58.880 a news report, an article in pink news. I don't want to refer to pink news as like a legitimate

00:05:04.680 news source. Um, yeah. Saying that Twitter had a new rule against dead naming and against misgendering.

00:05:14.020 And that was, you know, like, I don't know, 15 minutes off after I got banned from Twitter. So

00:05:19.380 the timing of that was very strange. So I'm just guessing that these are the rules that I broke.

00:05:23.900 But I think that what it was is that I had like a really, I was gaining a really prominent voice and

00:05:29.340 I was getting a lot of support in terms of my critiques of gender identity ideology and the

00:05:33.740 impact on women and girls and somebody at Twitter or some people have connections at Twitter didn't

00:05:39.860 like that. And they just decided to silence me or attempt to silence me.

00:05:46.180 It seems like the pushback has been harder against people that trans activists would call

00:05:52.680 TERFs like you, then people like me, I'm, you know, a Christian conservative who of course,

00:05:59.940 um, is not in alignment with most of progressive ideology in, uh, including this idea that men can

00:06:07.300 become women and, and vice versa and using different pronouns for people that does not

00:06:12.460 correspond with their biological sex. Um, I'm sure I have said things very similar to what

00:06:18.680 you've said on Twitter. I've certainly seen plenty of other conservative commentators say

00:06:23.520 things like that on Twitter. Do you think that there is like more hatred and more animosity

00:06:29.640 towards people that they consider TERFs, like radical feminists who are against transgender ideology

00:06:35.780 than there is against people like me, like Christian conservatives who are against it?

00:06:42.480 Yeah. I mean, it's, it's interesting because, you know, I do, I try to avoid making generalizations

00:06:49.280 like, um, you know, Twitter hates women, or this is a misogynist bias, but I did note at the time

00:06:57.840 and, you know, and men noted at the time too, that, you know, Ben Shapiro called me, we talked on the

00:07:05.260 phone after this happened, he was trying to offer his support and he said, you know, like I, I tested

00:07:11.160 this basically by tweeting almost the exact same thing that you did to see if I would get banned.

00:07:16.640 And I didn't, you know, like I was targeted specifically because, you know, what I think

00:07:23.280 that it is, is that the media and the trans activists and the, you know, progressive social

00:07:30.860 justice warriors, whatever you want to call these groups of people, I think that they really want

00:07:36.240 to, and have worked really hard to frame this debate as left versus right. So, you know, they want

00:07:43.360 the, the public to believe and, um, policymakers to believe legislators, to believe that the only

00:07:50.200 people who would ever oppose gender identity ideologies are these right-wing Christian conservatives

00:07:56.820 and anybody who is a leftist, a progressive, i.e., you know, a good, a good liberal who supports

00:08:04.340 rights and, and progress, those people all support, um, gender identity ideology and trans activism.

00:08:12.040 And I was obviously not, I didn't fit within that narrative, you know, like I've been a feminist

00:08:21.340 for a really long time. I was a long time leftist, you know, I've sort of now tried to move away from

00:08:28.720 those labels because I don't, I don't want to, um, attach myself to identities that I feel are,

00:08:36.720 are limiting. I want to be able to explore ideas as ideas rather than attach myself to specific

00:08:42.660 ideologies. But for most of my life, I identified as a feminist and a leftist. And I was, you know,

00:08:49.720 I supported socialist policies and socialist, the socialist ideology and, um, you know, radical

00:08:58.180 feminist ideology. And here I was pushing back against gender identity ideology and against

00:09:05.040 trans activism. And so I think that's a big reason why I specifically got silence and, and they'll still

00:09:13.580 allow conservative commentators to say essentially the same things that I was saying. Um,

00:09:19.720 you know, maybe there's a different analysis there, but the words are the same, right? Men aren't

00:09:24.840 women. You can't change sex. Biological sex is real. Only women can become pregnant. Those kinds of

00:09:30.100 like crazy ideas. Yeah. Yeah. So everyone listening and watching knows my perspective on it. I talk a lot

00:09:38.660 about like the theology of the body, theology of sexuality. Um, and also we do talk about the legal and just

00:09:45.220 practical ramifications of, for example, men being able to enter into women's spaces. We talk about

00:09:51.560 it from a biological perspective, but I'm interested in hearing from your feminist perspective. Traditionally,

00:09:56.940 I know you're trying to shy away from labels, but traditionally progressive perspective, why are you

00:10:03.140 against this whole gender identity movement? Why do you refuse to believe that men can be women and vice

00:10:08.820 process? Well, I mean, in terms of material reality, it simply isn't possible for a male to become

00:10:17.660 female. Um, a man can adopt, let's say feminine stereotypes. So he can wear a dress, he can,

00:10:27.300 you know, get plastic surgery so he can have, you know, breast implants. Um, he can, he can try to sort

00:10:34.900 of appear more like a woman, but he can't literally change his cells. He can't literally become a

00:10:42.260 female. Um, no male is ever going to have ovaries and, you know, be able to get pregnant and give birth.

00:10:51.380 Um, but you know, my, my concerns initially were that I didn't see a way to have gender identity

00:11:00.600 legislation and protect women's sex-based rights. So you can't have sex and gender identity. You can

00:11:07.380 either have sex or you can have this thing where we all just identify as whatever we want. Um, you

00:11:13.820 can't protect women's spaces. If you say that any male who announces that he's a woman can have access

00:11:19.820 to those spaces. You know, you can't protect, uh, women, women and girls sports, for example,

00:11:25.380 if a boy or a man can just say, I'm a woman. Now I get to compete alongside these girls or against

00:11:33.640 these women. Um, you know, we know that there are men being transferred into women's prisons and

00:11:41.680 that's really dangerous. And there's already been assaults and sexual harassment. Of course,

00:11:47.240 like often these are violent men. Often these are men who are rapists. And because of this,

00:11:54.040 these gender identity policies and laws, they're allowed to just say, I'm a woman, you have to

00:12:00.940 let me, uh, be transferred to a women's prison. Same thing with change rooms, same thing with

00:12:06.240 bathrooms, locker rooms, uh, transition houses, shelters. Um, and exactly what I predicted would

00:12:14.920 happen, happen. You know, when I started speaking out against these laws, it was because Canada was

00:12:20.560 introducing gender identity legislation, Bell C-16. And I was one of the only people in all of Canada

00:12:28.040 who said something, and it was a struggle to say something, you know, I, I pitched all over the

00:12:33.300 place to try to publish an article explaining my concerns in a very respectful, rational way. Um,

00:12:41.580 and almost no one would publish it. Eventually I, I found somewhere to publish it, uh, the, uh,

00:12:47.900 the national observer, which is a Canadian, you know, a smallish Canadian online news

00:12:54.620 magazine, I suppose. And, you know, she was like, fine, I'll publish it, but you have to write it for

00:12:59.720 free. I was like, sure, fine. I'm just trying to like, get the word out. But you know, it was me

00:13:06.220 and then Jordan Peterson, basically who were the voices who were speaking out about this. And of

00:13:12.520 course, Jordan Peterson became rich and famous and I became vilified and silence and censored. And I

00:13:18.720 lost my book deal and I was banned from Twitter. So I don't know. It's like interesting also.

00:13:25.140 Yeah. I mean, there does seem to be, like you said, a lot of misogyny in this, and I'm sure the

00:13:31.080 people who are for trans activism, of course they wouldn't call themselves misogynists. Of course they

00:13:35.900 would say that they're all for women's rights. They're for protecting girls, but they're never

00:13:40.640 actually made to explain kind of the, uh, the dissonance that you just pointed out that you

00:13:47.980 can't have sex and gender identity, or you can't have sex protection and gender identity

00:13:53.480 production. They're actually mutually exclusive. No one is ever forced to actually explain how those

00:14:00.540 two things, at least in their mind can exist. Have you seen any headway in that

00:14:10.560 arena and like having these conversations and trying to actually reason with this ideology that

00:14:17.120 just seems so incongruent in a million different ways?

00:14:22.160 People who are attached to trans activism and to gender identity ideology won't engage with

00:14:30.180 critiques. Um, you know, they consistently just resort to these, these mantras and these attacks.

00:14:37.200 So either they just will repeat, you know, trans women are women endlessly. Um, or they'll say,

00:14:45.600 you know, you'll be inclusive. Like they'll accuse you of being transphobic. No one will explain to me

00:14:53.760 why this is a question that I've asked a number of times, why it's important for a man to be able to

00:15:02.060 identify as a woman if a woman isn't a real thing. So, you know, when I've engaged with trans activists,

00:15:09.200 usually what I start with is I just say, what's a woman. So if you're saying trans women are women,

00:15:15.040 what's a woman, you know, what is it that you're identifying with? You're a man, you identify as a

00:15:20.440 woman or trans woman. What is that thing? And nobody will answer me. Um, so I don't, I don't even

00:15:27.860 understand why it's important. You know, why do you have to identify as a woman if you don't even

00:15:33.260 know what that means. And if that's not a concrete material thing, like, like, why don't you just say,

00:15:38.700 I want to be accepted as I am. I like dressing this way. I want my face to look more feminine.

00:15:46.140 Like that's all fine. I mean, to a certain extent, like we can debate those things, but in as far as how

00:15:52.840 people want to live their lives as individuals, personally, I'm not going to interfere with that.

00:16:00.500 If you want to get cosmetic surgery, you can get cosmetic surgery. That's your right to do that.

00:16:05.400 You can wear whatever you want. I don't care. You can wear makeup. But when you start creating laws

00:16:10.720 and policies around these ideas and start trying to force people to say, you know, I identify as a

00:16:19.760 woman, therefore you also have to acknowledge that I'm literally a woman and you have to accept that

00:16:26.040 I'm female, then no, no, I'm not going to do that. First of all, I'm not going to lie. Like I'm not,

00:16:31.340 I refuse to say something that's not true. And I know that that's not true. Um, I think that's a

00:16:36.600 dangerous road to go down. Um, I think it's dangerous to start saying that words don't mean anything

00:16:43.200 anymore. And a word is just subjective. Um, that material reality is just subjective that,

00:16:48.900 you know, like if I feel like, you know, I feel like I'm black or I feel like I'm a man then,

00:16:55.320 or I feel like whatever I'm indigenous, then you all have to accept that. Cause it's how I feel. I

00:17:02.700 mean, that's crazy. And so, no, I mean, you know, people have tried to set up interviews, debates

00:17:12.400 between me and trans activists and every single time. Um, or I should say, you know, 95% of the

00:17:19.060 time I did, I did do one debate with a trans activist in Calgary a couple of years ago.

00:17:24.380 Um, they can't get anyone to participate in the debate. They just won't do it. And I don't want

00:17:29.580 to be like egotistical about it, but I'm like, I think that they won't engage because they know

00:17:34.700 that they can't respond to the things that I'm saying. Like it's much easier for them to just say,

00:17:38.880 Oh, Megan's hateful. Megan's a bigot. Megan's transphobic. Instead of actually engaging with me

00:17:43.780 when everyone is watching and can see that I'm not hateful or bigoted and that the questions that

00:17:49.720 I'm asking are reasonable and the things that I'm saying are reasonable and that they really,

00:17:56.600 they really can't respond to these kinds of critiques. They can only repeat their mantras and

00:18:01.960 vilify and silence and shut down. It reminds me a lot of critical race theory.

00:18:08.880 And how critical race theory and all forms of critical theory, probably queer theory included,

00:18:13.780 they're all self-certifying. So it is true because it's true. And if you argue against it,

00:18:21.860 it's not because you have a legitimate point. It's because you're part of the problem.

00:18:25.980 And for example, like if, um, a person who is black doesn't agree with some of the tenants of critical

00:18:31.480 race theory, that for example, every single institution and interpersonal interaction is,

00:18:36.520 it's characterized by racism in the United States. It's not because they just have a difference in

00:18:41.160 opinion or even a different experience. It's because they've internalized whiteness. I mean,

00:18:45.720 it's, it's the whole thing. It's like a Kafka trap. And I see that a lot with what you're talking about,

00:18:50.560 that it's the same thing that if someone says, you know, you're crazy or you're a transphobe or you're

00:18:56.700 a racist and you say, well, no, I'm not. And then they say, well, that's exactly what a crazy person or a

00:19:01.320 transphobe or a racist would say. Um, and so there's like, there's no recourse, there's no

00:19:06.040 argument, there's no debate. And it makes sense when you think about, okay, well, we've made truth,

00:19:12.440 even biological truth, like this arbitrary that we can't even define something that we've been able

00:19:19.360 to define for millennia, a man and a woman. Then of course, why would we expect people who hold those

00:19:25.400 kind of beliefs to be able to have any kind of logical, logical reaction to it or logical stance

00:19:33.040 on it? Um, but that really scares me. Like being in this post logic post truth world where we can't

00:19:39.260 actually discuss anything. I, I just don't see that ending well. And I can't even say what the end

00:19:45.180 result is. I hope it's like some kind of implosion to where it just breaks down. I don't know. What do

00:19:51.800 you think? Well, yeah. And I mean, what happens is, you know, for example, if you're accused of being

00:19:59.160 a racist and you say, no, I'm not a racist, I don't hold racist views, then the person accusing

00:20:06.800 you, you know, especially if they, they hold the correct identity, if they identify as a person of

00:20:13.000 color or whatever, we'll say, oh, well, you don't get to decide. Like I get to decide if you're a racist

00:20:17.940 or not. And it's like, okay, I mean, then what is it like, you know, prove that I'm a racist, I guess.

00:20:25.800 And it becomes this really slippery slope where they're like, well, you know, you essentially you

00:20:32.180 use the wrong language or you challenge the wrong thing. You know, anyone who is anti-racist would

00:20:38.680 support everything that black lives matter does, um, would, you know, hate the cops, um, whatever.

00:20:46.880 It becomes all based in identity, but you know, political identity. And like you, you were alluding

00:20:54.940 to if a black person doesn't support critical race theory or doesn't support black lives matter,

00:21:01.920 or doesn't support all of the, you know, policies and ideas being pushed by black lives matter or

00:21:07.880 whatever it is, then they're self hating or they're some kind of traitor. Um, and the same thing happens

00:21:15.300 in all these activist groups, I think, you know, like it happens in feminism too. Um, I've sort of

00:21:21.500 started to question a lot of, uh, feminist mantras and, you know, things that we're supposed to accept

00:21:28.380 as true and not question in feminism, which has put me at odds with a lot of feminists. Unfortunately,

00:21:35.300 um, people get really mad when they, when, when you question the ideas, the ideologies,

00:21:42.340 the activism that they've attached themselves to for so long. Um, and I've never quite figured out

00:21:50.440 why, but I, I agree with you that it's sort of, I think it is a dangerous road that we're going down.

00:21:56.840 And I'm, I've been rereading 1984 over the past couple of weeks and it's quite terrifying considering,

00:22:04.920 you know, the context of what's going on with COVID and all the shutdowns and restrictions

00:22:10.340 and the loss of freedom and freedoms and rights there, but also in terms of what we're doing to

00:22:16.900 our language and discourse. And, you know, we're, we're, we're arguing against, I'm, I'm not doing

00:22:26.020 this personally, but a lot of people are arguing against free speech, um, because they believe that

00:22:33.460 free speech is harmful, you know, essentially free speech that they don't agree with is harmful.

00:22:38.100 So for me to ask these questions about transgenderism, about gender identity ideology,

00:22:43.980 supposedly that's harmful and dangerous and even violent, despite the fact that, um, I'm not violent

00:22:51.800 and I don't think I'm dangerous and I'm not trying to harm anyone. In fact, I'm trying to protect

00:22:57.160 women and girls, which, you know, these females are half of the population. So I would consider that

00:23:03.080 an important project. Um, but, uh, you know, I, and it's, it's ironic because I've, I'm the one who's

00:23:11.440 been threatened over and over and over and over again by trans activists with death, with rape,

00:23:17.100 you know, every time we've held an event, there's death threats. There was a bomb threat at our event

00:23:22.540 in Seattle, which I think was the last event that I participated in on this live event before the,

00:23:29.040 the shutdowns, you know, and it's really scary. Like I was, I was really scared at that event in

00:23:34.980 Seattle, which was at the Seattle public library, because they wouldn't let us hire private security.

00:23:40.080 And I always have private security with me when I do these events. Um, and they wouldn't let us.

00:23:46.020 And I just thought, you know, what if somebody shoots me? Like I just, a lot of these people are

00:23:51.400 really kind of mentally unstable. I'm not saying all trans identified people are all mentally unstable,

00:23:58.160 but these kinds of activists are really quite unhinged. You know, it's unhinged to threaten

00:24:04.820 someone with death because they want to have a conversation about women's rights and you don't

00:24:09.120 like what they have to say. Like these people are not behaving in rational ways. And yet, you know,

00:24:17.480 we're the ones being accused of being dangerous, um, or of having a minority of you. I mean,

00:24:25.520 that's the other crazy thing is it's like, they try so hard to paint us as this minority of like

00:24:31.360 radical feminists who have this crazy belief that only women can give birth. But like,

00:24:37.940 these are just basic views that everyone in the world holds, except for a tiny minority of people.

00:24:44.160 Like I don't even believe that most trans activists. Yeah. Yeah. And I don't even,

00:24:50.060 I don't even believe that everybody who says like trans women or women literally believe that a man

00:24:57.440 can become a female. Like that's a, that's a crazy thing to believe. Everyone knows that that's not

00:25:03.320 possible. Like you'd have to be really, I'm not trying to be mean, but you'd have to be seriously

00:25:08.240 delusional to not understand that there's a difference between male and female bodies.

00:25:14.160 I think some people are delusional. And I sometimes wonder if that's the point. Like

00:25:19.720 you talked about nine, 1984, like limiting the scope of consciousness and critical thought that

00:25:25.380 people can have by limiting the language that just seems to be something that's happening. And of

00:25:30.000 course, controlling the schools and like what kids can learn. But I saw some stupid two tweets the

00:25:35.080 other day about how we shouldn't call it breastfeeding anymore. We should call it chest feeding,

00:25:40.080 which I'm, I'm very confused, like about who is being accepted in that way. Because if a biological

00:25:47.920 woman is having, if a woman is having a baby, and she has breasts to be able to breastfeed,

00:25:54.400 why would it be wrong to say that she has breasts? I don't understand. I don't understand the whole

00:25:59.460 thing. But it does seem to be just like creating this cumbersome burden on our language,

00:26:04.960 while at the same time limiting our scope of consciousness. So like in 1984, instead of saying

00:26:11.060 excellent, they say like double plus good, which is ridiculous and longer and more cumbersome. But at

00:26:17.360 the same time, it limits your scope of reality, like it limits your scope of language, because you just

00:26:25.360 keep on recycling words. And that's what this reminds me of, like lactating people or gestators,

00:26:31.520 or like chest feeding and things like that. It's limiting our understanding of reality.

00:26:37.520 And so yes, I do think that there are some people that are delusional. I said something one time about

00:26:42.920 like, women needing the right to be able to defend ourselves, because men are inherently stronger. And

00:26:49.800 we just don't have the same, we don't have the same ability to fend off a predator or something.

00:26:54.700 And I had a woman tell me who I'm sure was not dumb. I mean, but she said that's internalized

00:27:00.360 misogyny that you think that a woman isn't able to physically fight off a man. And I'm like,

00:27:06.100 Oh, my God, I don't, I don't know how to reason with that. I don't I don't know how to reason with

00:27:10.880 it. I don't know how to talk to a person like that.

00:27:14.160 I mean, it's sort of that sort of like, equality gone nuts, right? Like, it's like,

00:27:20.220 we're not literally trying to be equal to men as in the same, we just want equal rights. And we want

00:27:31.040 autonomy and freedom and the ability to live our lives autonomously and independently and with

00:27:36.320 dignity. But anyway, I mean, yeah, like, I think it's, it's that people really, it's like people have

00:27:45.160 been brainwashed, you know, they've been brainwashed by activism and progressivism. And,

00:27:53.020 you know, it's people are really shocked when you challenge these mantras that they've seen all of

00:28:00.380 their friends say, and that they've seen shared on Twitter and Facebook over and over and over.

00:28:05.520 It's in their feeds constantly. So they just believe it to be true and right. And if you start asking

00:28:10.620 questions, they're just like, it's like they're, you know, brain short circuits or something.

00:28:16.920 And they've been told that anybody who questions these things, again, is like bad, is right wing is,

00:28:24.460 you know, far right, or alt right, or whatever it is that you want to people decide to label so that

00:28:31.940 you dismiss them and you don't listen to them and you don't engage with respect. It happens online,

00:28:37.500 it happens in terms of my, you know, I guess my political or ex political allies with my friends,

00:28:46.340 you know, just to even say, like, you know, I've said things like, you know, these people are

00:28:54.100 struggling with like a mental condition or mental illness. And, you know, I'm not, again, I'm not

00:29:00.780 trying to be mean. But if you're a man, and you literally believe that you're a woman,

00:29:04.800 then that's a form of mental illness. Like, I don't know how else to get around that you're not

00:29:13.400 operating in reality. And it doesn't mean that we should hate those people or vilify them. But I

00:29:22.020 don't know why we're creating laws and policies around these kinds of ridiculous delusions that

00:29:29.080 again, only a tiny minority of people actually believe

00:29:33.740 at the expense of women at the expense of a much larger population, by the way, like, it doesn't

00:29:42.320 matter that I don't want my daughter to be sharing a bathroom with a man or with a boy doesn't matter

00:29:50.200 that I want my daughters to be able to, you know, compete against other girls, because it's fair,

00:29:58.020 that doesn't matter that I want that, or they might want that. Or it doesn't matter that I'm

00:30:02.040 offended as someone who has been pregnant, and who has breastfed that I'm offended by the language

00:30:09.020 of chest feeding and gestators, like it's so crude, and rude, like I find that really offensive.

00:30:14.980 But my offense doesn't matter. The offense of the majority of people, the majority of women just

00:30:22.540 doesn't seem to matter. I guess it's just the intersectionality scale. I don't know. I don't

00:30:27.520 have enough oppression points for my offense to matter. I don't really know. I don't know.

00:30:35.380 Yeah, exactly. It is. It's, it's, we're creating laws and policies to address a tiny minority of people

00:30:43.120 at the expense of women and girls who are half of the population and who remain a very vulnerable

00:30:50.180 half of the population. Like it is true that women can't generally fend off men, you know, like

00:30:56.280 there might be a few anomalies here and there, like very strong women and weak men, so on and so forth.

00:31:03.860 But like, in general, like, you know, like, I box, I lift weights, I work out, there's I don't think

00:31:11.780 there's any man that I could physically fight off. It's just our bodies are different. And we are

00:31:18.260 vulnerable to men and male violence. And it seems crazy to me that we now can't even acknowledge

00:31:23.580 that like the fact that you don't want your daughter in a change room with a man. I don't even why should

00:31:31.320 we have to debate that, you know, is that not obviously inappropriate? And, you know, the sports,

00:31:39.860 the debate around women's sports and the conversation around, you know, trans identified people in sports,

00:31:46.460 which is really only a conversation about males competing against females, like there's not

00:31:51.540 swaths of like, trans men, so females who identify as men who are wanting to compete against other men,

00:31:58.740 because why would you? There's no advantage. Yeah, exactly. There's a big advantage if you're a male

00:32:06.200 in being able to compete with and against women and girls. But I mean, that's, that's, that's been a

00:32:12.960 good conversation, actually, because a lot of people who aren't politicized, politicized, who weren't

00:32:19.140 engaged in this debate prior will look at this situation and say, wait, what, like, that's a guy,

00:32:26.440 like, look how he's so much bigger and taller than all these women. Like, this isn't fair. You know, people

00:32:33.240 just sort of inherently know, like, this isn't fair. This is okay, this is a bit much like, it's one thing

00:32:39.000 if you're like, you want us to call you like Susie or whatever, sure, fine, who cares? Like, a lot of a lot of

00:32:46.440 feminists, well, you know, the kinds of feminists who are pushing back against gender identity, ideology,

00:32:52.080 not the other kind, saw where this was going early on. And we're trying to warn people, you know, women like me,

00:33:00.880 women like Jermaine Greer, women like Julie Bintzel. And we're super vilified over it. And like I said, you know,

00:33:10.560 exactly what I predicted would happen is happening. And it's just maddening, because, and I'll see on

00:33:18.720 Twitter, I'll see like conservative men be like, where are the feminists on this? And then like,

00:33:25.200 ban from Twitter. Like, I'm here. Yeah, I know. You're like, I'm here. I just did not give you a platform,

00:33:31.360 or at least. Yeah. I mean, I'm, I'm frustrated to that less that more people didn't speak out way

00:33:39.460 back when. So I sort of get it. But I'm also like, you know, like, I really was punished and

00:33:46.840 silenced in a lot of ways for, for saying all this stuff a few years ago. And, and yeah, I'm still

00:33:56.260 struggling with that. I know that, you know, people are like, Oh, it's just Twitter, who cares? Like,

00:34:01.020 it's just social media to use another social media platform. But like, I work for myself,

00:34:05.380 like, I'm, and I'm independent, I've always been independent. And I'm independent intentionally,

00:34:11.120 because I want the freedom to tell the truth and to say what I actually think, like, I don't want to

00:34:17.200 have to deal with worrying about being fired, or canceled. But at the same time, you know, like,

00:34:25.180 because I'm independent, I'm totally dependent on platforms like Twitter. Yeah,

00:34:30.860 YouTube, Facebook, Instagram, mostly Twitter, like, if you're a journalist or a writer, Twitter is the

00:34:36.340 platform that you use. And that was the primary platform that I was using to speak to my audience

00:34:40.600 and to connect with interviewees. And it's just it's made my work a lot harder, essentially.

00:34:49.220 And it does sort of in some ways erase you from the public conversation. You know, I think if you're

00:34:54.740 not you're not on there, people kind of forget about you. And if you don't have institutional

00:34:59.560 backing, you know, like, if you're not working for some big, like publication or channel or something

00:35:08.080 like that, it's it actually has a really big impact. It's it's not nothing. It's a, it's a good

00:35:15.080 punishment.

00:35:15.580 Yeah, and of course, they know that. And that's exactly why they kind of exact the powers that they

00:35:22.840 do.

00:35:32.900 You mentioned a few minutes ago, how there are parts of feminism, you still consider yourself a

00:35:39.120 feminist, I'm, I assume. But there are parts of feminism that you have started to question and

00:35:46.320 wonder why all feminists have accepted? What are some of those things that you've kind of started to

00:35:52.740 break apart?

00:35:55.140 Well, I mean, I do, I am a feminist. So I have to say, yes, I consider myself a feminist, because I am,

00:36:03.660 you know, I advocate for women's rights, I advocate against male violence against women and sexism and

00:36:11.240 sexist practices. But like I said, I just, I don't, I don't want to attach myself to labels that mean

00:36:19.140 that people can eject me from that label or category or identity or whatever. So, you know,

00:36:28.420 people will say like, well, if you're a feminist, you, you have to be on the left. Like, if you're a

00:36:34.780 feminist, you have to be intersectional. If you're a feminist, you have to, you know, believe all women

00:36:42.380 or whatever it is. And it's like, well, I don't, I'm not saying that I don't support these things,

00:36:48.380 but I'm saying that I want to assess situations and ideas independently.

00:36:55.100 Um, and I don't want to be bullied into supporting a certain narrative or mantra just because I say

00:37:05.900 I'm a feminist. So now I sort of am more inclined to just say, I advocate for women's rights. Um,

00:37:12.300 and I feel like that's more specific. That's what I'm doing. I don't want to do, I don't want to do

00:37:17.480 ideology. I want to support women's rights and women's autonomy and freedom. Um, and again,

00:37:24.800 fight against violence against women and girls, but you know, I've, I've, I've found myself at odds

00:37:32.180 with feminists who say, you know, well, if you're a feminist, you have to support Biden, or if you're

00:37:39.160 a feminist, you have to support black lives matter, or you have to be intersectional, whatever,

00:37:46.800 like whatever that even means, you know, like if you, if you talk to conservatives or right-wing

00:37:52.620 people or people that we've deemed anti-feminist or libertarians or whatever, if you talk to somebody

00:37:58.320 who doesn't fit, you know, our politics exactly, who isn't on the left, then you can't be a feminist.

00:38:05.460 And it's like, well, then I don't want to do this anymore. Like this isn't, I want to talk to everybody

00:38:10.960 that I can talk to. You know, I want to know as much as I can. I don't want to limit my scope of

00:38:16.720 knowledge. Um, I'm engaged in critical thinking. That's what I do as a writer. Um, and, and I want

00:38:26.180 the truth, even if the truth doesn't fit within this political narrative. So I would just rather

00:38:32.620 not attach myself to these ideas. I don't want to attach myself to the left anymore. I hate what the

00:38:38.020 left is doing. I think it's wrong. Um, it doesn't mean that I'm, I reject everything that the left

00:38:44.740 believes, you know, like as far as economic policy goes, I'm, I'm, you know, probably pretty left.

00:38:51.620 So, you know, I still support universal healthcare and universal daycare. Um, and I, but you know,

00:39:01.540 the, the ideas that the left are pushing are not ideas that I support. And I hate that they won't

00:39:07.000 engage in debate in good faith. And I hate that they, they hate people who are different than them.

00:39:13.380 Um, like, I don't think that that's a healthy way to build society. Like I really, I like talking to

00:39:19.560 people who are different than me. It's a good way to learn about people and to build empathy.

00:39:24.680 And instead what the left is doing is saying anyone who disagrees, anyone who's different is bad and

00:39:31.740 wrong. And I think that's bigoted. It is bigoted. You know, that's what bigotry is. Um, and you know,

00:39:40.100 in feminism, you know, I, I, I found myself at odds with feminists because a man will get accused of

00:39:48.220 something and I'm sort of just supposed to go along with it and vilify him and cancel him no matter what,

00:40:00.760 like, even if I don't have any information about what happened, even if I'm, you know,

00:40:07.300 questioning of the narrative. And for the most part, you know, I don't like, just to be clear,

00:40:14.200 it's like, you know, most women who say I've been raped or I've been sexually assaulted are not lying.

00:40:20.220 There's not like a lot of women who have a lot to benefit from lying about rape and sexual assault.

00:40:26.420 But at the same time, I have found myself in, in the position of just wanting to ask questions,

00:40:31.880 wanting to know more, wanting to have critical conversations. Like, I don't, I don't like this

00:40:37.160 culture that we live in, where if one person says one thing about another person, you have to believe

00:40:43.360 them because of their identity. And that person should automatically be canceled and vilified and

00:40:49.180 lose their whole life and livelihood. That's not what I'm about. And that is what a lot of feminists

00:40:55.620 are about. And, you know, feminists have really failed to support free speech and have been very

00:41:03.640 censorious themselves. So, and I think that's so hypocritical and contradictory and wrong. Like I,

00:41:12.700 I am a free speech absolutist. Um, I'm not going to demand that I be allowed to have free speech,

00:41:19.860 but then say, Oh, but you can't because your speech is bad. Like lots of people think my speech is bad.

00:41:26.540 That's, you know, if we, if we decide that we only support the speech of people that we like or agree

00:41:32.480 with, then we don't have free speech for anyone. Then we're all vulnerable to being censored. And so

00:41:38.540 many feminists don't really seem to get that. And I just, I find it frustrating. You know, I can't, um,

00:41:45.260 I can't, I can't support that. Yeah. I, you know, I've always kind of seen all of that.

00:41:53.340 What you just explained is just kind of hypocrisy and cognitive dissonance. Okay. How can they say,

00:41:58.340 for example, like someone like you, you're inciting violence or you're hurting people,

00:42:02.820 or you're a violent person just for saying something when they are actually inciting violence against you

00:42:08.580 or threatening you or whatever it is. Um, you know, how can they say someone like me is dangerous that

00:42:14.700 I shouldn't have free speech that I shouldn't have a platform, but they don't want to think

00:42:19.640 about if the shoe was on the other foot or if that standard was applied to speech that they do

00:42:24.540 like or speech that they said. But then I realized that it actually is a consistent philosophy, not

00:42:29.960 of everyone on the left, but an increasing number of kind of rabid, progressive, this kind of, um,

00:42:37.020 repressive tolerance, this idea that really, in order to have a tolerant society, you have to be

00:42:42.500 fiercely, uh, against what you see as intolerance. So transphobia, homophobia, racism, again,

00:42:50.820 their definitions of these things. And so violence is justified. Deplatform and silencing is all

00:42:57.860 justified because if you think that your version of a future utopia of, you know, that you think that

00:43:04.600 your vision for the future is the only way to true justice and true equality and true equity and all of

00:43:11.800 that, then of course you're going to take out any impediments. You're going to take out anyone that

00:43:16.580 you see as a, as a barrier to that, because you believe like you're storming the beaches of Omaha,

00:43:24.200 taking down Nazis. Like you think that you are some kind of warrior and hero. So of course you're going

00:43:31.280 to justify violence, but you're not going to like it when the so-called Nazi does it. And I,

00:43:36.340 I don't know how to necessarily pull people out of that, but I just keep telling, like, whenever I see

00:43:42.620 this, you know, another person being canceled for something stupid, voting for Trump or something

00:43:48.520 like that, what I want those people to realize is like, you are the fascist, like you're the fascist,

00:43:54.580 you are the fascist. And I'm just, I'm like, hopefully I can just say that enough. At least it'll get

00:43:59.600 through to like some people that the people that are going around calling everyone Nazis,

00:44:05.060 they're the fascists. Like we've seen this behavior throughout history. This isn't new.

00:44:11.600 Exactly. I mean, I'm just like, do people not even bother like Googling the words that they're using?

00:44:18.120 Like, I just want to be like, look up that word fascism and see what it means before you start

00:44:23.480 tossing it around in the way that you are because you're wrong. Um, and it's, I mean, yeah, I, I don't

00:44:32.780 know. And, you know, crack a history book, like people, people are repeating history in a really

00:44:39.020 dangerous way and they don't realize that they're doing it. And they believe very strongly that they're

00:44:44.260 on the right side of history and they're not, they're on the wrong side of history. Um, and I, I mean,

00:44:52.020 I, I ended up on the wrong side of that, that debate around voting for Trump versus for Biden

00:45:01.940 too. Um, because I said essentially like, you don't, a woman doesn't have to vote for Biden.

00:45:09.680 She's not kicked out of feminism because she votes for Trump or votes for anyone else besides Biden.

00:45:15.480 And I was vilified just for saying that, like, I'm not voting. I'm, I live in Canada. I didn't vote

00:45:23.360 in the American election, but like, I totally understand why people voted for Trump. And it's

00:45:29.320 not because I love Trump. I think Trump is an and a moron. Like I do, but I, that's not, that's not the

00:45:37.860 only reason that people make decisions around who to vote for. Like these are complicated issues.

00:45:43.820 And there was a ton of things that I found really scary about Joe Biden, not just that he was going

00:45:50.800 to erase women's sex-based rights, which he did immediately as he promised he would, but, you

00:45:56.500 know, he's in bed with big tech, you know, like this is, you know, I think that, um, social media,

00:46:05.720 the, you know, these monopolies are really scary and dangerous. You know, we're essentially being,

00:46:11.520 everything that we do is being monitored. Um, they're dictating our speech and our access to

00:46:17.960 information and to news. And you, you want women to just blindly vote for a man who's going to double

00:46:29.900 down on that stuff and, and support these companies and support these monopolies and support,

00:46:35.260 um, you know, censoring of news and information that doesn't fit the, the progressive narrative

00:46:43.340 or the preferred narrative in terms of people who are Democrats or whatever. Like, it's just,

00:46:50.900 it's not that simple. And the fact that so many feminists would not engage in this conversation

00:47:01.580 and, and in good, you know, in good faith. And so labeled me right wing or racist or white

00:47:08.300 supremacist or a Trump supporter just for saying this, um, you know, this is not so complicated.

00:47:14.540 Maybe you should go talk to some Trump supporters and try to understand why they support him because

00:47:20.580 it's not all irrational. You know, maybe some, some people irrationally support Trump cause they're

00:47:27.580 rabid racist or whatever, but I don't believe that most people do. Um, there's lots of good reasons

00:47:34.340 to reject the Democrats. Um, I hate the Democrats. I, there's no perfect answer here, but you know,

00:47:44.340 in Canada, there's, um, there's no party that I support at this point, but I just, that kind of

00:47:52.200 binary thinking and that the, the enthusiasm with which these people who believe themselves to be

00:48:00.100 so progressive and to be in the right and to be building this idealistic, better, more just world,

00:48:06.620 but are so eager to hate and vilify and shut down and are unwilling to try to understand or empathize

00:48:14.720 with other human beings. Like I, I, I just, it makes me so angry and scared about our future. So

00:48:24.380 no, I'm not going to align myself with people who behave in that way. That's not how I choose to

00:48:30.280 behave. That's not the kind of people that I want to be around. And I think these people are scary

00:48:35.720 and dangerous, like more dangerous than Trump. Sorry. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, obviously I agree with

00:48:44.280 you and most people listening to this and watching this are going to agree with you too. There's going

00:48:48.400 to be some people who listen to or watch this conversation. And it's funny actually how people

00:48:53.360 have called me a turf because I'm not a radical feminist and no one would have ever called me a

00:48:59.700 radical feminist, but it's, you know, like we've talked about, we're in this post-logic world and all we

00:49:04.420 want to do is categorize people and villainize them. So if a turf is the worst thing you can be,

00:49:10.160 then I'll be that. If we're a right-wing Christian fundamentalist is the worst thing that you can be,

00:49:15.040 then Megan Murphy will be that, even though that doesn't describe you. Um, and so I think a lot of

00:49:21.240 people, you know, they're fearful of that. They're fearful of being canceled. They're fearful of being

00:49:26.000 called a bigot. Um, can you speak to those people? Cause I, I do think the vast majority of people

00:49:31.720 agree with you agree with us on this issue when it gets down to it, protecting women and girls.

00:49:36.640 I really do think it makes up the majority of people, whether they say so or not, some people

00:49:42.520 might be manipulated or tricked by the euphemisms of trans rights or human rights. They hear that

00:49:47.760 and they say, well, yeah, I believe in human rights. Yeah. I believe that transgender people are

00:49:51.120 people that should have rights. Um, but when it gets down to it, when it gets down to what it looks like

00:49:56.980 for women and girls, I think most people do agree with us. Can you give some advice or some

00:50:03.280 encouragement for young women who want to start speaking up and talking about this? Or maybe,

00:50:08.300 you know, I've talked to people and their nursing program, they're forced to put like their pronouns

00:50:12.380 on their name tag or like labor and delivery nurses. I hear from telling me that they have to ask their

00:50:18.740 pregnant patients who are in labor, what their gender identity is or what sex they were born with,

00:50:24.740 which is crazy. Um, people who are in school, they're hearing this stuff for their friends

00:50:30.120 or even their church. They're starting to push this kind of gender identity nonsense. Um, and people

00:50:35.980 just want to know like, what do I do? How do I speak up? Where do I get the courage to do that? Can

00:50:41.180 you give people some, some encouragement? Yeah. I mean, the reality is that if we are going to

00:50:50.120 combat any of this, the gender identity stuff, the cancel culture stuff, um, the polarization stuff,

00:50:59.460 we do all need to start speaking out. Um, and when you speak up, it gives other people courage. You

00:51:07.820 know, when they see other people talking about the things they've been questioning in their own minds,

00:51:13.740 I'm sure, you know, you probably get emails and messages from people like this, but I get

00:51:18.700 messages all the time from people being like, Oh my God, I thought I was going crazy. Like,

00:51:24.360 thank you so much for saying these things. It makes me feel sane. Like I thought I was the only one. I

00:51:29.140 feel like everyone I know thinks this thing and it didn't make any sense to me. And now I know that

00:51:35.400 it's sort of okay to say this and okay to talk about these things. And there's, there's lots of

00:51:40.580 different ways that you can push back. Like you don't need to get on YouTube. You don't need to,

00:51:46.500 you know, publish some big statement on Facebook. You know, you can go talk to your MP, your political

00:51:52.220 representative, you know, like you should definitely, if you're a parent, you should be talking to like,

00:51:58.520 um, the administrators, uh, teachers. Like, I think that a lot of people just think,

00:52:04.800 Oh, well, this is how things are now. We just have to go along with it. And so that,

00:52:09.720 so I do think that it's helpful if you sit down with say like your kid's teacher or the principal

00:52:15.780 or whatever, and be like, you know, like I have really serious concerns about this. You know,

00:52:21.640 you have a right to speak to these people about your concerns. They're having a major impact on

00:52:27.520 your kid's life. You absolutely have a right to set up a meeting with your political representative,

00:52:33.020 with your MP or MLA in Canada. Um, and to, to talk about, you know, I just, I feel like we need to

00:52:43.460 normalize the fact that people have concerns again, like we can't, we can't accept this narrative where

00:52:51.960 we're this minority, we're a majority. And the only way that they're going to understand that we're my

00:52:57.040 majority is by speaking out. So, you know, however you can do it, whether if it's on social media,

00:53:03.280 great. If it's writing a letter, great. It's making a phone call, great. Setting up a meeting,

00:53:08.100 great. Talking to your friends, great. But you, you gotta do something. I mean, and, and we,

00:53:13.940 we do need, we need more voices and we need more people and we do just have to be brave and it is

00:53:21.640 scary and it can be dangerous. And people do suffer consequences. Sometimes, unfortunately,

00:53:26.960 I know women who've lost their job. Um, it's hard, but that's how it goes. Like it's, it's hard and,

00:53:35.460 and doing the right thing is hard and telling the truth is hard. And we just all need to be

00:53:41.320 braver and we need to support one another in this, right? Like we can't leave the, the lone woman out

00:53:47.880 there stranded, like, and, and, you know, vilified and targeted as this like crate. Oh, it's only Megan

00:53:55.860 Murphy. She's the only one in Canada who thinks that, you know, women are, are female. Like,

00:54:02.880 right. Like, yeah, no, like what she's saying is true and reasonable. She's not, she's that bad or

00:54:09.580 nuts. Yeah. I think there's so much power. And we've talked about this on this podcast before,

00:54:15.780 when you see someone being unfairly maligned, whether or not you agree with everything they

00:54:21.260 say, or whether or not, you know, them personally, but say it's because they voted for Trump or say

00:54:26.520 it's because they believe that men are men and women are women. When you see them being canceled

00:54:31.460 or their character being slandered, there's a lot of power and you raising your hand amongst very

00:54:38.400 scared people and saying, I agree with that. Or even if you don't agree, it's okay that they think

00:54:44.480 that. Like that's okay. There's a lot of power in sharing the arrows of your friends or the people

00:54:53.220 that you align with on certain issues. Or even if the only commonality that you have with someone

00:54:58.540 is that you care about free speech, but say you disagree on everything else, but you just,

00:55:02.920 you disagree on the freedom to dialogue, like standing up for that person. Like you said,

00:55:08.280 courage begets courage. It adds a lot and it's treating people how you would want to be treated.

00:55:13.480 Like if you were unfairly maligned for something because you had an unpopular opinion, wouldn't

00:55:18.400 you want people to come to your defense and say, what you're saying about her being a racist or a

00:55:23.480 terrible person or whatever it is, just, is it true? Wouldn't you want that? I would want that.

00:55:29.780 And so I do think that we have to be more courageous in, in helping each other in that way and sharing the

00:55:35.900 arrows and sharing the heat that comes and realizing like we kind of are in, not to be,

00:55:41.220 not to exaggerate or to, you know, be hyperbolic or mushy or anything, but it is a historic moment.

00:55:48.000 I do think that generations are going to look back and, and wonder like, what the heck did people do?

00:55:53.160 Like, was there anyone who disagreed with this? Was there anyone who stood up against this? And you

00:55:58.320 hope that one day people see the insanity of it and that they look back to conversations,

00:56:02.660 maybe like this one and say, okay, there were actually people who cared. There were people

00:56:08.540 who said something about this lunacy. I think that's the hope and maybe the optimism, even if

00:56:13.960 it's like a, a tepid optimism that people can have. Do you agree?

00:56:20.760 Yeah, exactly. I mean, I, yeah, people are going to have to, you know, we may not

00:56:26.120 win this fight, but, but people are going to have to look back and say, you know, like people stood up

00:56:34.640 and pushed back. And I, I agree with you that, you know, like I've stood up for people that I don't

00:56:42.040 agree with, you know, maybe I didn't like what they did. Maybe I didn't like what they said, but I've

00:56:47.120 still stood up and said, you know, like this person doesn't deserve to be treated in this way. This

00:56:53.240 person doesn't deserve to be fired or canceled or vilified. They're not a terrible person. Um,

00:56:59.980 and it sort of offers other people the freedom to do the same, to say, oh, it's, it's, it's possible

00:57:06.320 to stand up for Megan or whoever it is. I mean, there's, there's so many people who've been subjected

00:57:14.200 to cancel culture over the past couple of years. And again, like it's, it's important and you

00:57:23.060 should think about, I mean, you shouldn't, you shouldn't only be making these choices

00:57:27.500 out of self-interest. Like, oh, what if this happens to me? You should just have ethics and

00:57:33.120 you should stand up for what's right and stand up when something wrong happens, but you should think

00:57:38.920 like, oh, well, what would I want people to do if I were in this situation? Anyone could be in this

00:57:44.200 situation. You never know when you're going to find yourself on the wrong side of the political

00:57:49.620 debate or, or the cultural conversation. Um, it can change in a moment. And would you want people

00:57:57.980 to hear what you have to say and treat you with respect and empathy? Or would you want them to all,

00:58:04.880 you know, unfriend you and stop speaking to you and accuse you of being an awful person and a hateful

00:58:12.080 bigot who should be murdered because like they said the wrong thing on Twitter. Um, it's just not,

00:58:19.000 it's just not a good way to engage with other human beings also. And I, you know, think about

00:58:24.140 like, how would this conversation go if we were just one-on-one, if we were having this conversation

00:58:29.500 on person and nobody was watching and I wasn't virtue signaling my politics to all my friends,

00:58:34.660 like how would you engage with this person? Probably in like a pretty decent, humane way.

00:58:40.760 Um, we've created this culture where we dehumanize one another and, and that's scary. You know,

00:58:48.240 when you start dehumanizing people, it just, it makes it much easier to hate them, to be,

00:58:55.200 to be violent towards them, um, to be cruel. Um, so I don't know, we really need to, we really need

00:59:02.900 to start treating people with, I don't, you know, I don't want to say kindness because it ends up being

00:59:08.960 like, Oh, be nice. And it's like, I don't think you have to be nice all the time. Like that's sort

00:59:13.080 of like, I don't know. I'm not nice all the time, but at least treat people like they're complex

00:59:19.560 humans and they're not these one dimensional figures. Yeah, exactly. Okay. Can you tell people

00:59:27.860 how they can support you? They can't follow you on Twitter, but that's okay. They can follow you on

00:59:32.040 Instagram for now and they can listen to your podcast, right? Can you tell everyone where to find you?

00:59:37.040 Yeah. So I have a public Instagram account at Megan Emily Murphy. I have a public Facebook page,

00:59:47.360 Megan Murphy. Um, my podcast is the same drugs. You can find me on YouTube. Um, I do a lot of

00:59:55.300 interviews there. I have a Patreon to support my, um, YouTube channel and podcasts. So if you want to

01:00:03.640 support me there, I really appreciate that. Uh, I publish interviews there and some, some writing

01:00:10.260 there as well, but also, you know, just as if you feel like supporting my work or whatever,

01:00:16.320 that's awesome. I really appreciate it. All right. Well, we'll put the links to that,

01:00:21.600 including your Patreon in the description of this podcast. So people can just look there either on

01:00:27.360 YouTube or wherever you're listening and you can click and you can support Megan. I really

01:00:31.680 encourage people to do that. You're a good follow up and following you for a long time. And I'm glad

01:00:35.860 that we finally talked. Thank you so much for taking the time to come on. Um, I know people are

01:00:41.560 really going to be encouraged by the conversation. Thank you so much for having me. I really, I really

01:00:48.420 appreciate your reaching out and it was really nice to talk with you. I really enjoyed this conversation

01:00:53.700 and I'm really glad that we've connected. For sure. Thank you.

Relatable with Allie Beth Stuckey - May 19, 2021

Ep 423 ｜ Feminists vs. Radical Gender Ideology ｜ Guest： Meghan Murphy

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