Ep 426 ｜ Should Christians Support the Death Penalty？
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Summary
In this episode, we discuss the death penalty and whether or not there is a biblical backing for it, and whether it is categorically immoral and morally wrong. This is a very contentious ethical, moral and theological issue that I think is important for us to confront biblically and be able to talk about not just in the secular political sense, but also with fellow believers with whom we disagree.
Transcript
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hey guys welcome to relatable today we are finally going to talk about the death penalty i've been
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wanting to talk about this since january well i haven't been wanting to talk about it because
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it's a very sad subject to me i don't like thinking about it i don't like talking about it
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but it is a very contentious ethical moral and theological issue that i think is important for
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us to be able to confront biblically and be able to talk about not just in the secular political
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sense but also with fellow believers with whom we disagree this conversation was brewing back
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in january pretty heavily especially in christian circles due to the executions of several black
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americans that some people claimed were innocent or just claimed should not be executed the trump
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administration actually reinstated the federal death penalty after several years of it not
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not being instated there's been a lot that we've had to talk about since december so
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i just uh haven't been able to sit down and organize all the research that's required for it
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and even today we are not going to be able to get into every single argument for and against the death
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penalty i really want to focus on whether or not there is a biblical backing for it or whether it is
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categorically biblically and morally wrong uh this is a subject that i have been i'm doing a lot of
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reading on a lot of research in fact when people were talking about it the most online i didn't really
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talk about it that much i was doing a lot of research because i knew what i thought that
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i believed but i hadn't really done a whole lot of reading into it and so like my husband can tell
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you i was up probably until like 2 or 3 a.m um one of the nights that all these conversations were
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going on online just reading this ethics book this christian ethics book um that i have trying to
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understand all the different perspectives i've done a lot of considering of both sides a lot of
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thinking a lot of scouring the scriptures a lot of praying um this is something i really don't want
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to be wrong on we're talking about human beings made in god's image we're talking about people's lives
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we're talking about human beings being killed by the state i mean it's literally a matter of life
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and death and also just from like a conservative perspective thinking about like how much power do
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i want to give the state to be able to um do these kinds of things literally execute no pun intended
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these kinds of things um it's not something that i feel the urge or the need to fall one way or another
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on in order to fit in with fellow conservatives or republicans or christians i know lots of conservative
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christian republicans who are anti-death penalty and many who are pro-death penalty so i really have
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felt total freedom in studying this issue and coming back and coming to a sound conclusion based
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on the facts and based on the best theological arguments that exist um i thought this was
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interesting according to gallup in may 2020 a record low of 54 percent of americans said that they believe
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in the death penalty or said that they believe that it's morally acceptable in october 2018 49 percent
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of americans also a new low said they believe the death penalty was applied fairly the 2019 national
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survey found that a record 60 percent of americans favored life imprisonment over the death penalty
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which gallup called a dramatic shift from prior years so that's interesting i'm not sure um honestly
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though that we could say with a straight face that our society has become more moral like more
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serious about the sanctity of life more compassionate in recent years and yet support for the death penalty
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has waned and so it's just an interesting question like what's behind that like what moral direction
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ethical direction is the country actually going in and we won't really get to answer that question
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thoroughly today but it is something to think about uh the resource that helped me the most that a lot
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of this episode is based on is that christian ethics book that i mentioned ethics for a brave new
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world by john and paul feinberg i highly recommend it uh ethics for a brave new world if you are a part
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of women's book club with me on facebook uh we read brave new world a couple months ago very disturbing
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but they have created this long thick uh ethics book on it that um helps you break down all of the
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issues that come up in brave new world uh but from a biblical perspective um it was not the only resource
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i consulted but it helped me the most navigate the different uh stances and weigh them against
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scripture let me tell you up front um at least part of my belief based on what i've read it's a little
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nuanced if you will uh there is not from what i can tell any biblical basis for the belief that the death
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penalty is categorically immoral or unchristian scripture just does not support the idea that christians
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must be against the death penalty or that the death penalty is in general unjust or cruel or that the
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need for the death penalty ended with jesus's crucifixion uh we will go through these points
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today there may however be a more compelling political or practical reasons to oppose the death
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penalty perhaps you believe our justice system is simply unfair it gives favor to the privileged at
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the expense of the underprivileged maybe you don't like the idea of the state having the power to kill
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maybe it's a cost issue for you if you're more libertarian leaning it costs too much taxpayer money
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maybe you're concerned with the racial disparity uh in the death penalty that you believe to be caused
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not by disproportionate crime and homicide rates uh but actual bias in the justice system against black
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people perhaps you are concerned that the risk of potentially executing even one person who did not
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actually commit the crime in question is just too high for you uh to morally ethically accept these
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are all in my opinion totally valid and very reasonable concerns and we're going to go through
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some of them today using the best arguments uh that we have available but i am first and primarily
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concerned with the arguments that the death penalty is as a rule immoral not pro-life and unbiblical
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i disagree with that assessment entirely uh first let's start with the charge that the death penalty
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is unbiblical um i watched one video of a pretty um you know a pretty known commentator making this
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claim and what i thought was interesting was their use of bible verses to support their view
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totally decontextualized one which didn't actually surprise me because this person does not
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believe in the inerrancy or even the it seems the moral authority of scripture and yet to make their
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point in an effort to convince christians they eisegetically pulled verses out that they hoped
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would bolster their views but it didn't it just didn't logically i didn't find the video compelling or
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interesting um however i could see how someone who maybe doesn't know a whole lot about the bible or is
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unsure about what the bible says could hear that kind of argument and agree with it because um it
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sounds good like it sounds right um and uh it sounds social justicey it feels good uh plus that's the
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popular progressive belief nowadays abortion is good or at the very least necessary and the death penalty
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is bad and never necessary so if you're coming into a video like that and you just want someone to
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confirm your bias then someone kind of decontextualizing a bunch of bible verses that they don't actually
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believe in the authority in and sprinkling it into their argument may be compelling to you but i don't
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want to deal with those kinds of arguments i think that's probably the most popular kind of argument that
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i've seen from professing christians about or opposing the death penalty but those aren't even really worth
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dealing with because there's so many fundamental problems with their reading and interpretation
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and application of the text um so that kind of argument is weak um but there are a lot stronger
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arguments i think like i think that there are some really interesting and compelling and intellectual
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intelligent biblical arguments that we should absolutely give airtime to appreciate and then try
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to break down so there are four big arguments that thoughtful christians typically employ when
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they're arguing against the death penalty uh the first one is inconsistency of biblical application
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so this argument asserts that christians who support the death penalty based on the old testament law
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given to israel uh do so for murder for example but not for the other crimes for which god commands the
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death penalty to be death penalty to be dealt and so for those people who say well yeah you know we
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shouldn't ban the death penalty because look the old testament law requires the death penalty for
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certain crimes so people who christians who oppose the death penalty will say okay well do you also
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support the death penalty for witches for adulterers for anyone who strikes their mother or father because
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god did like those things were punishable by death in ancient israel but most christians today would say that
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they don't support the death penalty in these cases and so the opponent to the death penalty would say why
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why if you were using the old testament law as your basis for saying that the death penalty should be used
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today would you decide that it should only be applied to those who are convicted of murder and not the
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other crimes that god prescribes it for and beyond that why say that this old testament law is binding
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today but not god's laws for israel against eating shellfish or mixing fabrics for example
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this argument also points out that these were all laws god gave ancient israel as his covenant people
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who were living in a theocracy we don't live in a theocracy today and there is no command for us to
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form a theocracy no precedent set in the new testament for us doing so so we don't need to abide by the laws
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for ancient israel including any law that mandates the death penalty so that's one argument that
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christians have against the death penalty the second argument that thoughtful christians make
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is that the law of christ supersedes the law of moses and that the law of christ does not include a
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mandate for the death penalty and actually does away with the need for it so whereas the old testament says
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eye for eye and tooth for tooth jesus the argument goes brought a new law and we see in matthew 5 38
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through 48 that jesus tells us not to resist our enemies not to retaliate but to offer them the other
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cheek to strike after they've already struck one uh we're told uh even to give more to the one who has
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taken from us to love our enemies to show mercy to those who hurt us so how possibly could the death
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penalty fit into that this argument also points to warnings in the new testament against revenge
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such as romans 12 19 beloved never avenge yourselves but leave to leave it to the wrath of god for it is
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written vengeance is mine i will repay says the lord so um the new testament shows that god is against
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retribution he's against revenge he's against repaying evil with evil and christians are rather to
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pursue reconciliation and restoration this the argument goes rules out any justification for
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capital punishment the third big argument made by christians who oppose the death penalty is like
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the second that the emphasis on grace and mercy um in the new testament supersedes any emphasis on
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punishment so we see examples um of god showing mercy even in the old testament to murders like moses and
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david according to the law of israel both of them were deserving of the death penalty david for
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orchestrating murder and for adultery not only did god not uh allow him or moses who also killed someone
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uh to be put to death he used them in incredible and huge ways he calls david a man after his own heart
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he showed special favor to them the book of hosea is about hosea showing his wife gomer grace over and over
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again after she commits adultery and this is often used as a depiction of god's relentless love his forgiveness
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his welcoming back of his people after they rebel then repent so christians who oppose the death penalty would say
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this shows that even if it's a permissible punishment even in the old testament it's not a necessary punishment
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and in light of jesus's emphasis on mercy and forgiveness and restoration we should choose these
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options we should choose restitution and grace every time over execution um they may also point to the
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story of the woman caught in adultery in john 8 a crowd was about to uh stone her for the act and jesus
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stops them and causes them to drop their stones and walk away by saying he who has not sinned let him
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be the first one to cast a stone jesus then tells the woman he does not condemn her he tells her to go
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and sin no more so jesus they would say chose mercy he could have chosen the death penalty which was
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prescribed for her crime but he didn't so uh they say we should do the same thing we should follow jesus's
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example in this way and then there is the argument that the bible or the biblical standard for the death
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penalty um in the old testament even though it was applied to more crimes than just murder um was
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higher than we have today in that um the standards were more difficult to reach and because we don't
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have those same standards in the united states because we're living in a non-theocracy we shouldn't
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have the death penalty because they obviously like our standards are not matching up with god's
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qualifications for prescribing the death penalty um david llewellyn scholar says that there are five
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aspects of the mosaic application of the death penalty deuteronomy 17 4 says guilt must be absolutely
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certain so not like here where it is just beyond a reasonable doubt um deuteronomy 19 15 says there must
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be more than um one eyewitness to convict deuteronomy 19 16 says that anyone who gives false testimony in
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court is to have done to him what would be done to the one who is being prosecuted so if someone were
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on trial for murder and someone lied in their testimony to make them seem guilty um that false
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witness was to be executed deuteronomy 17 8 through 9 says undecided cases would defer to legal
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experts in the uh in the united states the system uh in our system a jury must decide and then also
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number five the death penalty was mandatory for the crimes for which god prescribed it if the person
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was found guilty that's exodus 21 12 so this goes back to the first point if we are really going to
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justify the death penalty by the old testament law then shouldn't we apply it as the old testament law
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required so these are all the big arguments that christians who oppose the death penalty on biblical
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grounds make they may have other reasons like racism in our justice system or something like that
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but using scripture these are the grounds they usually stand on when it comes to denouncing the
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death penalty um they don't regard for example wrote or genesis 9 6 or romans 13 4 as prescribing
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the death penalty necessarily and certainly not for us today so i think these are all very compelling
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arguments and if i were to stop right there maybe a lot of you would be convinced or you'd be solidified
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in your stance against the death penalty but we have to take a look at those arguments that i've read
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um and we have to look at the arguments to the contrary and then we can discuss it so
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in response uh to the argument that those who support the death penalty demonstrate an inconsistency
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of biblical application when it comes to the old testament law well god demands the death penalty for
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murder before he demands the death penalty for murder plus other crimes for ancient israel so god's
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demand of the death penalty a life for a life actually predates the giving of the law through
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moses this is a command given to noah in genesis 9 verse 6 whoever sheds the blood of man by man
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shall his blood be shed for god made man in his own image and the reason that this particular part of
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the covenant that god makes with noah is so significant and why it is argued that it still
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applies today is because it gives us a why that transcends time so why demand life for life execution for
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murder because god made man in his image this verse tells us why that is god's reason for demanding
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the death penalty when it comes to murder because of what is established in the first chapter of the
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bible that man unlike any other creature that god created is created in the image of god which means
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we have the capacity to make rational moral choices but it's not just that because of course there are
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people who because of some kind of disability don't necessarily have that capacity even they are made
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all people are made in the image of god we are still image bearers of god because we have a soul that
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lives forever eternity is written on our hearts we have an eternal destiny that's determined by christ
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and no other creature no other kind of creature on earth does therefore we as humans have value above
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every other creature we have the authority the obligation to steward the earth unlike any other
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creature we have responsibility and redemption unlike any other creature this is what it means that god
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created human beings differently than anything else in all creation and because of that because we were
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made in his image and because of the value that god associates with his image bearers he declares
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according to this passage that the only just and acceptable punishment for purposely taking the life of an
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image bearer is to take the life of the one who took it it shows just how much he values human beings
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that it would take the execution of another human being another image bearer to make up for it and
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because this is uh this precedes the law of ancient israel and because it's predicated on something we
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still know to be true that we are all made in god's image you could certainly say that the death penalty
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for murder is something that god still considers just today uh this was a command that was at the time
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given to everyone who lived because noah and his family um were uh were the only ones who were alive
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it was prescriptive uh given the translation in the context not just predictive and the fact that
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the death penalty is demanded at all in the old testament uh both here and later in the official
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giving of the law to israel and because we know that god is the great i am who therefore does not
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change we cannot say the death penalty is categorically unmerciful or unjust or biblically
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wrong that would be saying that god is not just was but is unjust and unmerciful and wrong because he
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does not change again there may be arguments for why we in america today should not use the death penalty
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but one of them is not that it's unbiblical or not pro-life to say that as a christian that executing
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a convicted murderer is not pro-life would again be saying that god is not pro-life but considering
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that god regards babies in the womb as people with purpose as we see in jeremiah 1 and psalm 139
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and says that child sacrifice is worthy of death in leviticus 20 he obviously thinks that the execution
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for murder is just but murder of children is not obviously it's honestly kind of even hard for me to
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understand someone's mentality that would equate those two things or who amazingly think that killing
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babies in the womb should be a legalized choice but the death penalty for murderers should be abolished
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and then they have the audacity to say that people who are against killing babies and support the death
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penalty for murderers are the ones who lack compassion by the way just a quick aside potassium chloride
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is used both to start uh stop the heart of a baby in the womb who is being aborted at a certain stage
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and in lethal injection executions so people who are for abortion are literally for the death penalty
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for babies that's wicked in response to the other argument um that the law of christ supersedes what's
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commanded in the old testament even that uh which predates the establishment of israel and its laws
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uh jesus clearly does tell us in matthew 5 that we are to love our enemies the argument um by those
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who oppose the death penalty is that you can't love your enemies and execute them well if you go back
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in that same chapter which we always look at every verse in context in verses 21 through 22 jesus points
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out not just the seriousness of murder but also of malicious anger hatred in your heart that he says is
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actually akin to murder he says these sins are liable to hell so obviously when it comes to
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murder jesus is absolutely for and promising um retributive justice at least eternally when it comes
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to unrepentive unrepentant murderers and hateful people now that verse alone does not support the death
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penalty but read in light of a passage like romans 13 which says the government is an institution
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instituted by god to carry out his justice against the wrongdoer his wrath against the wrongdoer
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uh here on earth it's hard to rule out the possibility that god would be for a kind of
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uh retributive justice for a murderer that includes the death penalty plus when we look at the context of
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matthew 5 we see uh that when jesus tells us to turn the other cheek he is talking about our
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interpersonal relationships if you try to apply this phrase turn the other cheek to governments
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then logically you are arguing that the state should never punish anyone for anything that you
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should just be able to steal and kidnap and rape and torture and plagiarize without any official
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repercussions like surely that's not what you mean and surely that's not a society that would please god
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because it would result in the oppression of the most vulnerable of the weakest in our society
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something that we know that he hates surely that's not what god means when he says the governments
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are supposed to execute justice on his behalf in romans 13 so my question is why would matthew 5
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mean a prohibition of the death penalty but not prohibition of other kinds of punishment if you
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are going to apply turn the other cheek not just to interpersonal relationships but to anything the
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government is allowed to do the answer is it doesn't it's not talking about how the government
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should order society it's talking about what you personally as a disciple of christ are now called
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to do that also includes romans 12 19 through 20 which tells us that we are not to take vengeance
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upon ourselves but are rather to be kind to our enemies and trust god that does not mean it cannot
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mean logically or biblically that god is condoning an unjust government that allows anarchy and violence
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to rule at the expense of those who can't defend themselves in response to the emphasis on um on
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mercy that we see in the stories of david moses gomer these are absolutely examples of god extending grace
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grace means unmerited favor so god can do what he wants to do he can give grace when he wants to give
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grace and where he wants to give grace uh there are lots of other cases where god does not extend grace
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he punishes the wrongdoer he does not command his people to make exceptions uh when he is giving the
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law to israel but he because he is god does make exceptions when it means his glory for example god gave
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moses grace for murder by allowing him to live he did not give him grace when he struck the rock twice
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he didn't allow him to see the promised land so the cases in which god shows grace to murderers
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or evildoers don't serve as the rule they are never offered as examples on which we are supposed to build
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our penal codes uh and they don't supersede genesis 9 which again is predicated on an eternal truth that
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but let's talk about this example uh in john 8 of the woman that's caught in adultery who was almost
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stoned for her sin before jesus intervened is this an example of jesus in his new law doing away with
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the death penalty uh the truth is jesus is not attempting in this case to do away with the death
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penalty that's not what this passage is about it's an important passage but it's not about that
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he actually doesn't question if you read the passage the justice of the death penalty what he's
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questioning is the authority of those who are about to execute the death penalty in other words
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he was pointing out the discrediting disqualifying uh disqualifying nature of hypocrisy
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as he does continuously to the religious leaders throughout the gospels the problem with the
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pharisees was not that they were too faithful to the law or that they were too holy or that they
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took god's commands too seriously is that they appeared to keep the law externally but inside they
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were filled with unrighteousness with self-glory with arrogance with pride with hate and they were
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without a love for god and the compassion for others to which god calls his people they ignored the
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heart of the law and instead they used superficial obedience to make themselves superior to everyone
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else god hates that kind of pride and hypocrisy he says so throughout the old testament prophets he says
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so in the form of jesus in the gospels this is another example of that not a statement about the
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legitimacy of the death penalty the fact is the people who were about to stone this woman were hypocrites
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because they in this very instance were actually breaking the law the law required according to
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deuteronomy 22 22 through 24 that um that both adulterers man and woman were to be tried and
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executed guilt had to be established by two to three eyewitnesses says deuteronomy 17 6 through 7
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the witnesses motives must be pure as exodus 23 1 through 8 says so when jesus says you who are without
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sin be the one to cast the first stone he's not talking about he who is without sin in general
00:28:00.320
since that would again negate any and all punishment for any law breaking ever since we are all sinful
00:28:07.320
it actually makes more sense that he's pointing out their sinfulness and hypocrisy in this case because
00:28:14.100
they were not abiding by the old testament law which disqualifies them from inflicting punishment
00:28:21.500
so when jesus tells this woman caught in adultery no one here condemns you and neither do i condemn you
00:28:28.400
he is actually conforming once again to mosaic law the word condemn is uh is a legal word that
00:28:36.840
means to convict he tells her to go and sin no more which is another indication uh that he is emphasizing
00:28:44.940
not flouting the law so this is a story that serves as a depiction of what pleases god obedience done
00:28:52.960
from a sincere obedient uh submissive pure heart he hates hypocrisy jesus was showing that where there
00:29:01.540
is hypocrisy there is injustice and where there is injustice and hypocrisy on the side of the accuser
00:29:10.060
there is relief for the accused it's a mistrial it doesn't mean that she was actually innocent that
00:29:18.260
she hadn't done any wrong but that her punishment was not going to be just according to god's standards
00:29:23.660
and so she got another chance but jesus tells her to use this chance to repent from sin i do believe
00:29:31.500
that he paid attention to her and used her situation as an opportunity to teach this lesson and to spare her
00:29:37.760
from unjust death and that that is merciful and shows us the pure and the loving heart of god
00:29:44.540
but this is not a story that indicates the biblical necessity for a government to do away with the death
00:29:51.440
penalty we just don't see that kind of substantiation here the law of christ in the new testament does give
00:29:57.460
us new commands for how to live as a church we are no longer bound to ceremonial law not because god
00:30:03.880
changed or because it doesn't matter but because ceremonial law was used to set israel apart and
00:30:10.580
make them clean before god then when jesus came he became our righteousness setting us apart and making
00:30:17.000
us clean before god through his sacrifice we don't have to offer animal sacrifices or burnt sacrifices anymore
00:30:24.020
because he became our sacrifice he became our cleansing once and for all forever but jesus not only
00:30:31.700
affirms the moral laws of the old testament he doubles down on them so he says don't murder but also don't
00:30:40.240
even be angry in your heart towards your brother he says don't commit adultery but also don't even
00:30:45.400
lust don't even look at a woman with that intent and desire he fulfills the law by getting to the heart
00:30:51.940
of what god always meant by the moral laws in the first place they were never supposed to be for
00:30:57.960
superficial legalism and works-based righteousness they were always to be done by faith through a
00:31:04.180
sincere love for god so jesus did not come and obliterate the moral code he took the moral code
00:31:12.040
to another level that is impossible to reach by the way without his help he came not to say do whatever
00:31:18.540
you want to it's fine there shouldn't be any consequences he says no do what god has told you is
00:31:24.220
right and do it from a heart that is uh that is in sincere and total submission to god with humility
00:31:31.480
and love and grace and truth and while i jesus will become your cleansing and i will justify you through
00:31:39.520
my death your faith in me and your justification that you've received should motivate you to obey
00:31:46.600
the lord and follow what he says is right so there is no there is no basis in this particular passage and
00:31:56.120
from what we see in jesus to do away with the death penalty or that the death penalty um suddenly becomes
00:32:03.520
null and void or something that a government should not or cannot use especially when it comes to
00:32:10.540
the genesis 9 directive especially when it comes to those qualifications of it being a convicted murderer
00:32:18.800
that is put to death this passage in john 8 does show us a lot and yes we do see so much mercy and
00:32:25.380
grace coming in the form of jesus christ that we can learn from we do learn about forgiveness but that
00:32:32.720
does not mean that a government is to neglect especially in light of romans 13 is to neglect their role
00:32:39.420
to execute uh god's wrath on the wrongdoer in a way that is proportional and good and just and right
00:32:46.740
um okay next next argument in response to the argument that the biblical standards are not met
00:32:55.040
today in our justice system for the death penalty because we don't live in a theocracy and therefore
00:33:00.320
we do not and cannot possibly have the proper parameters in place to be able to justify uh or justly
00:33:06.880
issue execution so my response to that is yes we do not live in a theocracy so we don't have the exact
00:33:14.580
same process but that does not necessarily rule out the legitimacy of the death penalty altogether
00:33:20.780
you could say based on these that we need to reform our our system to match israel's exactly maybe you
00:33:27.160
would say that and i'd you know i'd be open to that that would mean that we're living in a theocracy
00:33:31.080
that would just mean some reforming that would make it more difficult to issue the death penalty
00:33:36.640
but to simply say because our regulations don't match those of the old testament law that the death
00:33:44.100
penalty is immoral per se doesn't make a whole lot of sense i would be for more consistently applied
00:33:51.120
and even stricter standards across the board but i don't see how this point eliminates the possibility
00:33:56.840
of a just justice system issuing the death penalty but because we are not ancient israel we are not
00:34:04.600
a theocracy and because we don't apply the ceremonial laws we also are not obligated to apply the death
00:34:11.080
penalty to all the crimes that god applied it to in the old testament i think that we can look at those
00:34:17.120
crimes and see wow god really hated that and still does but a democratic society is not obligated
00:34:24.300
to establish the death penalty for those crimes like striking your mother or father or witchcraft
00:34:30.740
in the same way that i think there's more of a moral imperative to establish the death penalty
00:34:36.180
for murder based on the reasoning that we see in genesis 9 about people being made in god's image
00:34:42.440
and then we have the whole romans 13 argument for the biblical justification for the death penalty
00:34:50.660
romans 13 3 through 5 says this for rulers are not a terror to good conduct but to bad would you have
00:34:57.080
no fear of the one who is in authority then do what is good and you will receive his approval for he is
00:35:02.280
god's servant for your good but if you do wrong be afraid for he does not bear the sword in vain for he
00:35:09.120
is the servant of god an avenger who carries out god's wrath on the wrongdoer now obviously we know
00:35:15.940
there are bad corrupt governments probably definitely more bad ones than good ones uh the
00:35:21.620
command here in this chapter is actually twofold it's not just to us it's also to governments that
00:35:26.540
governments are to be god's servant in subjective uh in subjection to him and his definitions of evil
00:35:33.940
and good justice and injustice and also for us as christians to do everything we can to be in
00:35:41.540
subjection to the government as long as that does not cause us to sin since as we see here god's
00:35:47.440
authority is actually higher than the government's authority but this passage is clear that as god's
00:35:53.900
servant a government is not just allowed to but actually commanded to bear the sword and carry out
00:36:00.180
god's wrath on the wrongdoer this is the new testament god through paul speaking to christians in
00:36:06.460
rome now some scholars don't see that phrase bear the sword as uh an explicit mention of the death
00:36:12.960
penalty or a condoning of the death penalty but many scholars do considering paul's jewish background
00:36:18.560
and his mention of a lethal weapon here um but at the very least this passage authorizes punishment
00:36:25.600
on those who do wrong according to god's definition of wrong and as i've already argued that certainly
00:36:31.240
cannot rule out biblically the death penalty for murder now as for the other concerns about our
00:36:39.300
system in general racial disparities socioeconomic disparities the possibility of an innocent person
00:36:44.940
being put to death that i completely understand that trips me as well um these are all legitimate
00:36:52.200
concerns i am totally willing to talk about regulatory changes uh that make the doling out of all
00:36:59.760
punishments but particularly one as serious as the death penalty as clear and as consistent as possible
00:37:06.360
but for those who go further and actually say that the death penalty is immoral because justice should
00:37:13.080
always be restorative rather than retaliatory or that it's cruel and unusual or that it doesn't serve as
00:37:20.200
any deterrent on these things i just i can't agree on those arguments justice systems can have four
00:37:27.920
functions restoration rehabilitation that's one restitution two deterrence three and retribution
00:37:35.420
four i would also add to that protection of the community five but um in this ethics book they give these
00:37:42.180
four reasons and so if you are someone who says rehabilitation restoration is always should always be the
00:37:48.380
goal of the justice system then obviously you would see execution is wrong um if restitution paying back
00:37:54.240
the victim or the victim's family or society is always the goal of the justice system then you would see
00:37:59.340
execution is wrong if deterrence is the goal the prevention of future crimes by teaching the perpetrator
00:38:05.760
and other potential crimes that there are criminals that there are consequences to your actions then uh
00:38:13.520
then you would say if that's your goal that you would say the death penalty is ineffective because there's no proof
00:38:19.840
of their deterrence if deterrence is what you are saying you're trying to do in a justice system and
00:38:27.700
the death penalty does not accomplish uh doesn't accomplish deterrence you might point to the 1990s when
00:38:34.260
executions dropped off and the states with the death penalty had a higher murder rate than states that
00:38:39.920
didn't in canada they abolished the death penalty in the 70s and murder rates continued to decline
00:38:44.560
um the final purpose of a justice system one might say is retribution now the so-called criminal justice
00:38:52.720
reformers or criminal justice advocates um they typically say that this is not the purpose of a
00:38:58.560
justice system um retribution is punishment for something done that is wrong it doesn't necessarily
00:39:05.040
matter if it fits the other qualifications it's punishment um we see retributive justice throughout
00:39:12.540
scripture and god's execution of justice in the old and new testament and we even see that in the
00:39:18.080
eternal sense that he promises separation from wrath upon unrepentant unsaved sinners forever so god
00:39:25.500
roots retribution for murder in particular in his care for image bearers and in demonstration of the value
00:39:32.860
of the victim and if retribution is a purpose then the death penalty is absolutely uh according to the bible
00:39:42.220
justified at least in the case that god says is commanded because of the value of the human victim
00:39:48.300
which is murder most people actually like i said that criminal justice advocates don't think that
00:39:55.360
retribution should actually be a part of a justice system but most people even the most progressive
00:40:02.360
social justice advocates believe in retributive justice when they see fit everyone has this sense that
00:40:11.520
people who do wrong should be punished for their crimes people on the left have no problem with
00:40:16.720
retribution when it comes to for example a white police officer killing a black person for example
00:40:23.400
but for whatever reason in some other cases that go along a different narrative they're not okay with
00:40:29.700
retribution they would say retribution is bad it's vengeful it's unjust um and that would be a kind of
00:40:37.440
partiality and a kind of secular progressive social justice which actually doesn't align with any kind of
00:40:45.120
real justice so it's just not accurate to say retribution is unjust or wrong sometimes it is absolutely
00:40:53.480
called for uh we all know god knows that it's a necessary goal a necessary goal not the but a necessary
00:41:02.300
goal in some cases of a justice system and it should be distributed in a way that is truthful
00:41:08.400
proportionate direct and impartial rehabilitation and restitution may very well be options where
00:41:17.260
possible when for example it's well established that this person has turned from their ways and will
00:41:22.800
lead a better life and the crime they originally committed was not something like premeditated murder or
00:41:28.260
similarly a violent crime that violated uh an image bearer uh and i'm actually for these kinds of
00:41:38.000
people when they get out of jail to have all of their rights restored uh but rehabilitation and
00:41:44.320
restoration is not always possible and not always preferable punishment may need to be harsh based on
00:41:52.140
the crime and this person could put the community at risk if released depending on the kind of crime
00:41:57.980
that they committed and where they are in the process um in the process of rehabilitation or or
00:42:05.320
incarceration and the safety of innocent people must be prioritized over so-called restitution when
00:42:13.320
there is a risk there the death penalty may also be used as deterrence there has never been a study
00:42:20.980
that shows that the death penalty does not determine her just that it may not uh there has never been
00:42:27.760
a causal relationship that's been established between these two you could argue that the fact that the
00:42:33.780
death penalty is given unreliably and inconsistently in the u.s um that people aren't scared of it and
00:42:40.980
therefore it's not a deterrent or that they trust that social justice activism of the public is going
00:42:47.580
to help them avoid it but the question is the question that has to be that has to be asked is what
00:42:54.900
stops any of us from committing a crime there may be lots of reasons lots of different reasons but
00:43:01.080
it's impossible to know why someone who does not murder chose not to murder how could you ever know
00:43:06.760
why someone who was considering murdering someone decided not to was it the possibility of the death
00:43:13.460
penalty or was it the possibility of life in prison or was it something else the evidence of whether the
00:43:20.180
death penalty is an effective deterrent is inconclusive and therefore the argument that we
00:43:25.680
shouldn't have it based on the conclusion that it's definitely not a deterrent just isn't a good one in
00:43:31.440
the same way that you can't say that it definitely is now for those who say that there are disparities
00:43:40.140
between races and socioeconomic classes first i would say remember disparities by themselves
00:43:46.260
don't prove discrimination and injustice but i still believe that said i believe that it's worth
00:43:54.600
noting these disparities and reforming if it is found through evidence that bias is coming into play
00:44:01.360
to cause these disparities i am absolutely on board with reforms that make our justice system uniform for
00:44:08.460
all races for all classes for all people and for the standards to be as consistent and and as strict
00:44:14.780
as possible when it comes to proving guilt and issuing consequences especially the death penalty but
00:44:21.220
my position is simply that i see no argument that the death penalty for premeditated murder that is
00:44:27.580
proven with evidence in a fair trial with an impartial judge and jury beyond a reasonable doubt is immoral
00:44:36.040
or unbiblical in any way when you read about some of the heinous crimes committed by some of the people
00:44:42.460
who were executed federally this year it's really hard to see any other punishment except the death
00:44:48.760
penalty as just the woman who lured a pregnant mother and then killed her and cut her baby out the man
00:44:55.600
who murdered his toddler daughter whom he'd repeatedly horrifically abused over the short years of her
00:45:01.540
life and then killed her by slamming her head into the dashboard until she died after he had tortured
00:45:07.100
her in a variety of ways i mean this was a baby girl that this man ruthlessly murdered and the fact that
00:45:13.400
you had people not just saying that this man shouldn't receive the death penalty because the death penalty is
00:45:18.740
wrong but going so far as to actually try to make him seem like some sort of victim because of his race
00:45:24.760
that's what happens when you have a reprobate mind you have a heart of stone and a brain of mush and you
00:45:31.300
can't see things clearly i think we're obligated to be able to see things clearly i think the bible helps
00:45:36.480
us do that so i am willing to debate the death penalty on all kinds of grounds i really am like i said i feel
00:45:43.660
free to change my mind but i i cannot there is not any basis from what i can see that the government
00:45:54.540
cannot justly or biblically dole out the death penalty in some cases you have to be able to define
00:46:04.800
justice as god defines it which is we've talked about so many times is truthful proportional direct
00:46:11.160
and impartial if you can't define that if your justice is marred with secular social justice which is
00:46:17.840
partial and circumstantial if you don't even believe in an absolute right and wrong or objective truth
00:46:23.900
and i don't want to debate with you on this like if you're trying to come up with an argument from
00:46:28.280
the bible against the death penalty and you don't even believe in the authority or inerrancy of the
00:46:32.880
bible you don't even know how to read your bible systematically or how to apply the old testament and
00:46:37.620
wet it with the new testament then this conversation is interesting for me to have with you but for the
00:46:43.500
people who have all kinds of nuanced contentions with our death penalty and with our justice system in the
00:46:49.320
united states i think that that is a flourishing debate absolutely that we can have again i don't
00:46:55.700
believe that there is any biblical reason that we can exclude the possibility of the death penalty
00:47:00.120
for murder especially because of the reasons that god gives for the death penalty for murder
00:47:06.240
that predate the law that he gave to israel and also the responsibility that he gives the government
00:47:12.920
in the new testament i hope that i at least gave you some food for thought in helping you determine
00:47:19.080
what is the most biblical and just and logical position i know you know some of you are still
00:47:23.520
going to disagree with me and that's okay but you guys have been asking me for my thoughts and
00:47:27.900
research on this and so i tried to give you the most thorough response and explanation that i could
00:47:33.620
so thank you guys so much for listening or watching we will be back here soon