Ep 432 ｜ Was Jesus a Capitalist？ ｜ Q&A
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Summary
In this episode of Relatable, Pastor Ken answers a question sent in by you, the listeners. What has society changed since biblical times? Has society gotten better or worse? Is there anything new under the sun that we should be worried about?
Transcript
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Today we are doing a Q&A where I answer the questions that you guys sent me on Instagram.
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Thank you guys so much for sending me such thoughtful questions.
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Someone asked, has humanity changed since biblical times?
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I would echo Ecclesiastes in saying that nothing is new under the sun.
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Have societies changed in some ways because of technology and just because of globalism,
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the discovery of the world and the interconnecting of different cultures and different kinds
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But of course we know that one, Jesus Christ stays the same.
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Um, and also like we know that, you know, God is the great I am.
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He's not I was, he's not I will be, he is I am.
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It's just a dot on the span of, um, of eternity.
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Humans have changed in the ways that I just explained.
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Like if we look at some of the ancient cultures and we look at some of the ancient societies
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and the ancient sins that were written about in the Bible that were written about, um, by
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If we read about, for example, like Pompeii, some of the terrible degeneracy and the perversion
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and the sexual immorality and the enslavement and the barbarism that was pervasive in, for
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example, ancient Rome in the, um, in the, in the, in their forms of entertainment.
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I mean, that was barbaric immorality, probably what we would see at its worst.
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If we see, if we look at what Nero did to the Christians and how wicked of a leader was,
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he was, if we look at, um, a variety of different events and different kinds of kingdoms and regimes
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over the span of history, we see that evil has prevailed for many years and many different
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times in, in many different regions of the world and things have gotten better than they've
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And it just seems like the different forms of immorality and the different forms of perversion,
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the different forms of degeneracy and hatred and war and violence have gotten better and
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Human beings just simply, simply go through these different, uh, cycles of societal downfall
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and then societal improvement based on the principles that they decide to build their
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civilizations and their societies and primarily their families on.
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We have different, uh, technology, but it's still the same.
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We are still allowing ourselves to devolve into degeneracy, whether it's sexually or
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Um, and so I don't think that there's anything new that is happening today as wicked as it
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seems, um, um, that has not happened or is not happening.
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It hasn't happened in other parts of the world.
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And even in this part of the world at various points in history, evil just kind of takes on
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different forms according to different people, different culture, different times.
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I remember hearing someone say that like Satan, the serpent might be clever, but he's not creative.
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Like he doesn't really come up with new ways to tempt us.
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Every temptation since the garden of Eden, like every spiral into immorality and rebellion
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from God has started with the question that he asked Eve, did God really say?
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When we are questioning God's authority, when we are questioning his definitions of what is
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right, what is wrong, did God really say that it will always lead us to calling evil good
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And I certainly think that we are, um, we're running fast in that direction in this country
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If we're not already there, maybe we're past the point of no return.
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John MacArthur has talked about that this country is already under judgment and we have wicked
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We're in a post-truth society, and this is just another season of world history of, um,
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that's going to lead to, um, that's going to lead to major suffering because of human rebellion.
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So we don't know what's going to happen in the future.
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We don't know if God will have mercy on us and spare us from that kind of fate.
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I pray for our leaders all the time, that they would have wisdom and compassion and make good
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decisions for the people in this country, that they would execute real biblical justice,
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Um, that's not what we're seeing exemplified, of course, from our leaders right now.
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It's kind of comforting that human nature hasn't really changed, that there has been this kind
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of wickedness before, but it's, I mean, it's also obviously very troubling, but through
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it all, the answer to the wickedness that is in the human heart has been and will be
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It will always be God who can make hearts of stones into hearts, uh, of flesh, hearts
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that want to follow him, hearts that want to emulate him, hearts, um, that wants to create
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a community that is based on the biblical values of love and charity and generosity and respect,
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uh, that, uh, that Christianity gives us, that the Bible gives us.
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And so because human nature doesn't change and because wickedness is always going to be
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here, it's Christian's responsibilities to be that light that Jesus calls us to be, to
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infuse every sphere in which we occupy with the light and the truth of the gospel, um, without
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Um, all right, next question, um, generational trauma.
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So generational trauma in the sense that like your mom, for example, went through something
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really traumatic and that experience then affected you and your family, or it affected her to
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the point to where it affected you and your family, or even just hearing her tell about
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some traumatic incident that she, uh, that she went through.
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That's it, that could in effect traumatize you in a certain way.
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Like that could have a negative effect on your mind.
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And then you could deal with like secondhand trauma, um, or like listening to a grandparent.
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For, for example, if you are someone who is black and you listen to a grandparent talk about
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living in the Jim Crow South and talk about real institutional systemic racism and injustice that
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existed then, you know, being hosed down with a fire hose for just trying to vote in the
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Jim Crow South, that kind of story could affect you and could traumatize you in a certain way to
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where you are carrying something that other people whose grandparents did not experience that
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Now there is also this kind of superstitious, um, talking about generational trauma that
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And that is like this idea that your ancestors have like spiritually passed down trauma to
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And just because like you hear a story about something that your great, great, great, great
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grandmother endured that you are like carrying superstitiously, spiritually, like that piece
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of trauma that you inherited it, that again is superstitious.
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It, it could affect you mentally to hear that story, but to say that you have like inherited
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the trauma from your ancestors and that that is burdening you and you are living that out
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today, that is like a form of, um, I would say like necromancy.
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That is a form of witchcraft and superstition that is not real.
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And of course the Bible speaks against necromancy and calls it evil and says that we shouldn't
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have a part of it, but that is, that's more like that's mysticism.
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We don't have that kind of ability to inherit experiences of our ancestors.
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And so when it comes to that kind of generational trauma, no, when it comes to hearing people that
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you know, go through something real and traumatic, could that affect you?
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And it's not just people of color who would have that.
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It's anyone whose grandparents, like if they were Soviet dissidents or they were your great
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grandparents were, um, you know, Holocaust survivors, like having those stories passed
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Um, that, that trauma of course should not define us.
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Um, it can guide us and it can help us see things in a particular way and it can teach
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Um, but we can't, we also can't say that it was the same thing as living through it.
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I think that's diminishing the real lived experiences of our ancestors who lived through the things
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that they are now telling us about, if that makes sense.
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So we actually did an episode titled purity culture, um, that you can go back and listen
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There's good parts of so-called purity culture, bad parts of so-called purity culture, um,
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Like that's such a trend to put culture at the end of something and then to make it sound
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So I think there are, I grew up Southern Baptist and so I know what people are talking about.
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They're talking about the kind of nonsense that's like, as soon as you, um, make out
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You're not going to want to, you're not marriage material anymore and you're not worthy and you
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You're kind of like this flower that has been picked apart that no one wants anymore.
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Like you guys know, I'm not like some deconstructivist ex-evangelical who is just trying to speak
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out against the toxicity of Southern Baptist culture.
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But like, I remember my friends and me as, and as teenagers reading, um, reading this book
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called Datable that said, basically like the more you do with a guy, the more you are like
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And, um, the more a car is used, the more their value goes down and the less someone will want
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Well, that is counter to the regenerative message of the gospel, um, that once you are in Christ,
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once you are in Christ, your past sins, they don't define you.
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There is no condemnation for those who are in Christ and the righteousness and the purity
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So if you are someone who you had sex, you did whatever before you became a Christian,
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once you become a Christian, like you're, you're not your old self anymore.
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You don't carry around, um, you know, like a used car tag that says all of the ways that
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you have been used, like that is not the gospel.
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And if you are acceptable enough to the God of the universe, because of the righteousness
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and the purity that Christ has transferred to you by his death on the cross, then you
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So for a sinful man to say, you're not acceptable to me because of the things that you did before
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you're a Christian or whatever, um, is to put himself in a place that's higher than
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God, because God has said that you are acceptable to him through Christ.
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Now, I still think talking about sexual purity is very important.
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I mean, the Bible talks about sexual, uh, sexual purity and sexual immorality very blatantly.
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Jesus talks about the importance of, of faithfulness in marriage as he describes marriage, for example,
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And so, and first Corinthians six, nine says that the, you know, the body is a temple of
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First Corinthians talks a lot about sexual immorality and why it's important to honor
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our bodies and what holy sexuality is supposed to look like.
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But I think purity culture back in the day, nine eighties, nineties, early two, early two thousands,
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they focused on the devaluation of an image bearer because they made out too much or because
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they had sex or something and they focused on the consequences of it and not on the why,
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And I don't even necessarily like that term because we're made pure in Christ, but like,
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why do we abstain from sex before we get married?
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Like, why do we treat our bodies as temples of the Holy spirit?
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Like, why do we honor our bodies as constant, like consecrating our bodies to the Lord is
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It's not because it's not just to make yourself more valuable to a husband one day.
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Like it's not to make yourself look more presentable to a man.
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It is because God loves you and you love God and because he created you and he knows what's
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And he says, this is not just how you honor me.
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This is not just how you glorify me, but this is also how you honor the wonderful and fearfully
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This is what's going to be best for you spiritually, emotionally, physically.
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If you follow these guidelines for sex, God says, this is what I have for you because
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I love you and cherish you so much because you are so incredibly, um, worth dying for.
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God said incredibly, not because of anything we bring to the table, but because of his grace.
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Um, and because I died for you and now you are mine.
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This is how you are to live in a way that brings me glory and is good for you.
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So this is why it's not because God will love you less or your husband will love you less.
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If you make out with too many guys in high school, it's because God knows what is best
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And he knows what's best for our hearts and best for our bodies and best for our spirits
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Now, I'm not saying that no one was taught that correctly in the Southern Baptist world
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and no one was taught that correctly in the Christian church.
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I actually think it's very overblown the toxicity of purity culture today.
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And it's also the people who typically are criticizing purity culture, which we have criticized
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parts of purity culture on this podcast before are typically the ones who are saying that anything
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goes like anything should go as far as so-called sex work, as far as any form of sexuality, as
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far as any sex or, you know, any sex partners you want to have, just go for it.
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And that certainly is not where we need to go if you have problems with how you were taught
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Like, don't tell me that that kind of degeneracy is going to lead to whole and happy people
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I still trust what God has to say about sex and what God has to say about the body because
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Um, it's gratitude for the worth that God has given you through Christ.
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It's not fear that you're going to be devalued or the fear that you're going to be devalued
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that you don't go too far with guys in high school.
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It is the gratitude for the value that God has said that you have, um, that you continue
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to obey him and not just in the area of sex, but in all things.
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So I think it's a shift in mentality that's probably, uh, that's probably necessary.
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So next question, does it make sense to move if you don't like your state's current restrictions
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I think it's time to move to red states if you're a conservative person and just make
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I think that you'll be happier living around people that share a lot of your same values.
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Um, unfortunately that's just kind of where we are as a country.
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We're polarized and it's not getting any better.
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And so you might as well keep the stronghold strong.
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Like you're, if you're living in California, if you're living in Colorado, which used to
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be a red state, they both used to be red states.
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If you're living in a blue state, you're probably not going to make it red, but you can make
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the red states redder and you can influence the state representatives, the state legislature
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to pass good laws, um, and to affect change in the way that aligns with your values.
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And so if you are living in a state that has draconian lockdowns that has ruined people's
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lives and livelihoods for no scientific reason over the past, you know, more than a year,
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and you don't see any end in sight and you just see things getting worse than I would
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If you can, I say move to red states, move to red communities, make them even redder and
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Um, well, Jesus was not first, let me say Jesus was not a socialist or a communist as
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we've talked about many times in this podcast, socialism and communism.
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Is the government forcing you to give up your capital, forcing you to give up your money
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and your property, and then redistributing it that to other people who did not earn it
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in the hopes of creating total and complete equality.
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They've got large welfare states, but they've got a flat tax.
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So everyone, no matter how much you make, pays 60% in taxes.
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And most of those countries, um, are about 60% in taxes.
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Most of the taxes that are being paid in this country are actually by the top 25% earners.
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So when people say the rich don't pay their fair share, the top half of Americans are pretty
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Um, they're paying the larger bulk of the taxes in the country.
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And so I just wanted to clear that up, but, um, socialism, it forcibly redistributes wealth
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and it forcibly redistributes property in the hopes of keeping everyone the same, but it
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It always leads to more greed and more oppression.
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And the only people that get to keep their wealth are the ones at the very top, like Jeff
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Bezos and all the people at the top of these corporations are not going to be the ones that
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They're going to be able to continue to line their pockets.
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The politicians are never the ones that are hurt by socialism.
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And these major corporations, they're pro lockdown.
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Um, it's the blue collar workers that are really affected by these kinds, um, these kinds
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It's the forced redistribution, um, of wealth and property, hoping for total and complete
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We don't see that modeled at all in the life of Jesus.
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He tells people to sell what they have and give it to the poor.
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He encourages you, um, even taking the clothes off your back and giving it to someone who needs
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But he does not advocate for the government confiscating these things, forcing you to give
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up these things and then give it to other people.
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The kind of generosity and charity that Jesus is calling us to is one that is inspired by
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And so anyone who says Jesus was a communist or a socialist either has not read the Bible
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or doesn't know what socialism and communism are.
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So, uh, I would say that, that he's not a socialist or communist.
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We don't see that anywhere in the Bible whatsoever, but we do actually see a protection and a preservation
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Two commandments in the Old Testament, as we've said, speak against the kind of covetousness
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and theft that we see in socialistic, communistic societies, and that is do not steal and do
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So that means that God has placed legitimacy on private personal property, that what's mine
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And not only am I not allowed to steal something that you have according to God.
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And by the way, Christians still uphold the moral law of the 10 commandments.
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These were fulfilled and doubled down on by Jesus, not done away with the way that the
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ceremonial and cleansing laws were because Jesus became our cleansing.
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And so we still abide by do not steal and do not covet.
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That's reiterated throughout the New Testament, which means that there is legitimacy.
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There is validity to private personal property.
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There's legitimacy to what you earn and what you have being yours.
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And it's not even just wrong to forcibly take it.
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And I'm not just talking about paying taxes, which Jesus says, render to Caesar what is
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Caesar's, which is not even a conversation about taxes.
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But anyway, I'm talking about, you know, actual theft and the theft of property and someone's
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entire livelihood, whether it's by the state or whether it's by an individual.
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The Bible also says we're not even supposed to want something that's not ours.
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So that's how much God cares about someone's property is that you're not allowed to steal
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You're not even allowed to look at it and say, you know what?
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And I want that that's covetousness and God calls us against it.
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And socialism and communism are only covetousness.
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So to say that Jesus was a communist or a socialist, it just completely disregards any
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kind of biblical theology or any understanding of what these institutions are and how they've
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played out throughout history and how they play out economically today.
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Obviously, I believe that he cares because he is God.
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So we can't separate the God of the Old Testament from Jesus.
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And so, yes, of course, we believe that he cares in property and would not be for the
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But it depends on what you mean by is he a capitalist?
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A lot of people equate capitalism with this love for the accumulation of wealth and greed.
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The New Testament also says that the love of money is the root of all kinds of evil.
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So desiring to build up your treasure here on earth and desiring to hoard wealth for the
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sake of your status or for the sake of your comfort and security, rather than being generous
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with what God has graciously given you, is wrong.
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But that's not what capitalism should actually equate to.
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It is simply the freedom to be able to provide for you and provide for your family.
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Capitalism allows you to be as greedy or as generous as you want to be.
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In socialism, you don't have the freedom to be greedy or generous.
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You're only left with absolutely what you need.
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And so there's no need and no desire for charity.
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And it's the only system that actually allows that.
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Um, so it, yeah, again, it just kind of depends on how you actually define, um, capitalists.
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Do I think that he is someone who is like some, you know, serial entrepreneur who is trying
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to make as much money as possible and instructing his followers to do that?
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But whereas socialism and communism are a system, capitalism is just what naturally happens.
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I'm not talking about crony capitalism, which I think we have a lot of here in the United
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I've talked to you before about how the stories that I've read from North Korea, where they
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are completely indoctrinated with the wonders of communism from an early age.
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And they're told about the evils of imperialistic Japan in the United States, the evils of capitalism
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and how North Korea is this wonderful place of abundance.
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Even while they are starving and they are being oppressed and they are being jailed for any
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kind of dissent or complaint, they're also being told that communism is amazing.
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Well, while they were starving, particularly in the famine, I think in the late 90s, they
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started smuggling or getting food smuggled from China and then selling it in these illegal
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They bought and they sold and they traded and they set the value of things.
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And there was a supply and demand free market, even though it was illegal, within these small
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They didn't learn about the economics of supply and demand.
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Like they didn't learn about how capitalism worked.
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They didn't know anything about the marketplace or about economics.
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And yet they created basically this microcosm of capitalism based on need.
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It is a system in its natural form based on need.
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Now, again, there's crony capitalism and all of these things that come into play today.
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Corporatism that we see so much and so terrifyingly in the United States today.
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That is not necessarily just a that's that's not just capitalism.
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But if you're talking about capitalism in the sense that it's just the free market of
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supply and demand and meeting people's demand with supply that you can see naturally sprout
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up anywhere there isn't anywhere there is a need and anywhere there is a supply.
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So I couldn't say that Jesus is against that natural occurrence of supply and demand in capitalism
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that we see in countries that have never even learned what capitalism is, because that
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That seems to be a part of the mind that God just gave us.
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So, yeah, but I don't I don't like putting Jesus into like any particular political or economic
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I don't say that he's either of those because he transcends all of it.
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Like he's the creator and the sustainer of the universe.
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Like he is the God of the universe, not just the God of America.
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To think that he could be in any way placed in these small boxes of our our categories of
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how we understand the world is just to not not comprehend his infiniteness, which we
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But to try to make him smaller by putting him into our categories, I think, is wrong.
00:29:13.540
He says what is and what isn't, what's right and what's wrong, what's good and what's bad.
00:29:20.020
I think that we got time for a couple more questions.
00:29:27.540
So apparently there's like this TikTok video going around saying that Jesus was a racist
00:29:35.100
I'm just thinking about this like spontaneously.
00:29:36.860
I think the video was about the story with Jesus talking to a woman who came to Jesus and
00:29:43.020
was like and Jesus basically at first answered her like, why would why would I allow you to
00:29:52.080
Why would I allow you to take part of something that is actually for Israel and basically called
00:29:58.840
And she was like, oh, I just want the crumbs from your table.
00:30:03.640
Um, he I think that that is the story that he's referencing, that this TikToker is referencing
00:30:09.420
when he says Jesus is racist and then repented of that.
00:30:13.860
That's not the first time that I've heard a so-called progressive Christian talk about
00:30:24.160
But again, progressive Christians often, not always, but often don't see Jesus as a perfect
00:30:30.640
They see him more as an example or an activist or just an imperfect guy who really just represents
00:30:38.180
So he's really just kind of this guy that we can learn from that had good teachings,
00:30:44.360
And therefore, we don't have to hold him to different standards than we hold ourselves.
00:30:48.180
And obviously, that is a mistaken, completely unbiblical, self-contrived view of Jesus that
00:30:56.640
There's like, there's no reality or substance to that Jesus when you create a Jesus of your
00:31:01.460
own imagination, not the Jesus that the church fathers understood and have always understood
00:31:06.760
through scripture and through special revelation.
00:31:10.780
And so, yeah, I've heard this before, this idea of repenting, that Jesus repented from sin.
00:31:20.580
He who knew no sin took on our sin so that we could become the righteousness of God.
00:31:31.460
That is how he was able to accomplish propitiation.
00:31:35.500
That's how he was able to accomplish reconciliation because he was our perfect sacrifice.
00:31:41.660
And because he is God made flesh and died to death, he didn't have to die after living a
00:31:50.240
life that he didn't have to live and rising from the dead, conquering sin and death.
00:31:55.980
We are given, believers are given his righteousness and his perfection and therefore his acceptance
00:32:03.540
And so not understanding that, not understanding his divinity, not understanding his perfection,
00:32:08.400
not understanding his sinlessness means that you don't understand the sacrifice, which
00:32:12.280
means you don't understand what God did for us, which means you don't understand Christianity.
00:32:18.500
You don't understand what anything about the faith is.
00:32:22.320
Anything that Jesus did, anything that Jesus said was done in perfect righteousness.
00:32:26.840
Now, I think the realization that we need to see in a story like this or in any of the
00:32:31.860
stories of Jesus is that Jesus wasn't just this nice guy.
00:32:34.900
Like people also love to think of Jesus as just this like very nice, gentle guy that
00:32:40.300
was just always like his tone was always perfect and he was just completely unoffensive.
00:32:44.860
That's not what we see in scripture about Jesus.
00:32:48.480
Like there are parts when there's times that I read Jesus's words where I'm like, man, that's
00:32:58.460
I wouldn't have said it that way or like that hurts my feelings or whatever.
00:33:04.000
He was kind, of course, exceedingly kind and compassionate and loving.
00:33:19.240
And so it might just be that this particular passage makes people who see Jesus like that
00:33:26.020
But it doesn't mean that he is human, that he's finite, that he's fallible and that he
00:33:31.500
It just means that in his perfection, he chose to do this, which means that it wasn't a sin.
00:33:36.080
Like we have to start from we have to start from the knowledge that Jesus is perfect and
00:33:42.140
And therefore, everything that he says and everything that he does is in truth and in
00:33:50.260
I think that that is all that we have time for today.
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Thank you so much for listening and we will be back here soon.