Ep 445 ｜ Canada's 'Free' Health Care Is a Myth ｜ Guest： Lauren Chen
Episode Stats
Words per Minute
191.40533
Summary
In this episode of Relatable, I talk to Lauren Chen about her experience with universal health care in Canada, the challenges she and her family have faced, misconceptions about our healthcare system in the US, the body positivity movement, and gender stereotypes.
Transcript
00:00:15.980
We're going to be talking about all sorts of things, her experience with universal healthcare
00:00:20.700
in Canada and a lot of the challenges that she and her family have faced, the misconceptions
00:00:25.420
that people have about our healthcare system in America versus the healthcare systems
00:00:32.920
We're also going to be talking about the body positivity movement, what is great about that
00:00:38.940
and also what is unhealthy and toxic about that.
00:00:42.340
And we'll be talking a little bit about gender stereotypes and just this idea of overcorrection
00:00:49.160
of society's problems through progressivism and the dangers of that and how we really
00:00:54.920
need to keep a balanced approach to the most controversial and difficult issues.
00:00:59.380
So I'm so excited for you to listen to this insightful conversation.
00:01:16.020
I want to talk to you about a bunch of things today.
00:01:22.060
This probably won't come out for a couple months, but as we're talking right now, can
00:01:25.820
you give us an update about your dad and kind of what's been happening with the healthcare
00:01:33.460
I know a lot of people in this audience have been praying for you and hoping the best for
00:01:38.920
So if you could just give us an update on all that.
00:01:43.520
Well, first off, thank you so much for having me.
00:01:45.500
And thank you so much for discussing my dad's challenges on your show.
00:01:49.260
Because I know when we were fundraising, there were a lot of people who did come over and
00:01:52.940
donate and offer their support and prayers who heard about it from you.
00:01:58.620
So thankfully, my dad was able to get his operation.
00:02:03.900
And so they removed this shockingly large and scary looking tumor.
00:02:17.420
We were really, really happy to just get that out of him.
00:02:20.420
And so now what, you know, we're going through what so many people are going through with their
00:02:26.180
So my dad is supposed to be getting every three months, I guess, blood tests and different
00:02:30.780
scans just to make sure the cancer in his liver doesn't come back.
00:02:33.880
And apparently, you know, the more negative results we get, the less chance there is of
00:02:38.900
And OK, we've really been keeping our fingers crossed for that.
00:02:41.980
The problem we have is that now we are back in Canada and, you know, similar problem to
00:02:46.640
why we went to the U.S. in the first place for treatment is trying to get that care in
00:02:54.220
A lot of Americans, I think, maybe don't know about Canada is that the health care system
00:02:59.340
So, you know, I see Americans say we need federal health care mandates like they have in Canada.
00:03:04.720
It's like, I don't think you know how Canada works, if that's what you think.
00:03:08.120
But anyway, unfortunately, the province I'm in, Quebec, is notorious for long wait times.
00:03:14.140
And actually, COVID has not made things any better.
00:03:17.380
It's just increased the wait times for everything.
00:03:20.140
So, yeah, I mean, we've been trying to get his follow up treatment for three months.
00:03:27.860
And it's actually so bad that my parents right now are looking into ways to relocate to the
00:03:32.640
U.S. because, I mean, it's it's just a nightmare.
00:03:36.000
And actually, in Quebec, there are no private hospitals either.
00:03:41.140
So it's not even like you have the option of paying more.
00:03:44.440
Because like in the U.K., most people, it's almost the same thing.
00:03:48.840
But I think there are also private hospitals and private health care centers in the U.K.
00:03:59.040
And it's frustrating because Hong Kong, where I've also lived, it's more of like a mixed
00:04:02.800
system where if you're a citizen, you do have like, I guess there's the universal health
00:04:08.280
But they're trying to encourage more and more people to be supplemented by private health
00:04:12.460
insurance, go to private hospitals and things like that.
00:04:15.680
That is not what's going on in Quebec, which is frustrating.
00:04:18.200
And actually, myself, I actually had a biopsy done of a skin growth that was on my scalp.
00:04:25.820
And I'm sure by the time people are seeing this, I'll know the answers.
00:04:29.020
But it was about a year long wait to see a dermatologist.
00:04:32.780
And then once he saw me, he was like, all right, come back in four months and we'll see
00:04:38.620
And then I had to wait another two months to actually get the biopsy done.
00:04:41.660
Oh, and I'm in a position right now where I'm waiting for my results.
00:04:47.480
It's been eight weeks and we still don't have my results yet.
00:04:51.140
And so, yeah, it's just been a lot of and I'm sure there are so many Canadians who have
00:04:56.620
When I started talking about my dad, so many other people came forward with their challenges.
00:05:01.140
And, you know, I'm sure there are people who it's worked great for.
00:05:03.820
But I think more people, you know, with the Biden administration coming in, there's going
00:05:09.460
I think these are stories that Americans deserve to know because it's not all rosy, you know, doctors
00:05:15.060
falling out of trees and health care for everybody, as people like Bernie Sanders sometimes
00:05:20.700
So backing up just for people who don't know, with your dad, he was diagnosed with cancer
00:05:25.840
and then you had to wait a very long time to even have any kind of follow up, correct?
00:05:30.580
And he had to come to the United States for the procedure that ended up saving him.
00:05:38.740
And it was it was a very scary time because it was a situation where he got a scan done,
00:05:43.740
just what we thought out of a abundance of caution.
00:05:47.600
And he didn't actually have someone look at the scan and give him a diagnosis until around,
00:05:54.320
So a scan captured the fact that he had cancer, but he wasn't able to see a specialist to look
00:06:02.320
And then, you know, we were trying to get a really quick operation date and we just we
00:06:19.860
I mean, I ended up going to social media saying like, I don't we don't know what to do.
00:06:25.420
We know it's been growing for, you know, months and months at this time.
00:06:29.040
And it's not that it's not the kind of thing where you're like, oh, it's OK.
00:06:36.740
And so by posting a message on social media, which I'm so glad you did,
00:06:42.220
tell me about the response from people in the United States.
00:06:45.880
Was that how you ultimately got connected to the person who performed the procedure for
00:06:52.500
So actually, I'm not sure if you're familiar with or your audience is.
00:07:00.080
So he was actually kind enough to put me in touch with someone at the Mayo Clinic in
00:07:10.880
And then by like the next day, we were doing a video conference call with the people at the
00:07:15.260
Mayo and they were saying, send us any results you have.
00:07:18.880
And I've been teasing my dad that he's been spoiled now with American health care,
00:07:23.620
expecting to see all of these doctors in a timely manner.
00:07:28.700
And, you know, the response from Canadians was by and large.
00:07:34.780
I'm still waiting to see such and such specialists.
00:07:37.080
You know, the Canadians in my audience, they understood what I was going through because
00:07:40.680
so many of them or their family members are in the same position.
00:07:48.600
And actually, it's so bad with even general practitioners.
00:07:51.220
You can wait like years to see a GP just because we have a shortage.
00:07:55.080
But, you know, what was interesting to me is the response I got from a lot of American
00:07:59.560
leftists was that, you know, I was being selfish, trying to jump the line to get my dad
00:08:06.200
You see, this is what happens when I don't I don't think they understood.
00:08:10.740
They're trying to make it seem like universal health care was the answer to my problem.
00:08:14.000
It's like, I don't think you understand the situation.
00:08:16.140
Yeah, I mean, I was actually pretty taken aback.
00:08:19.980
How many people out there who are like, I guess, Medicare for all advocates were attacking
00:08:25.520
me, attacking my father just because I was sharing what we were going through trying to
00:08:32.460
I mean, I guess when you are so attached to an idea that it's integral to your worldview
00:08:38.820
or your political perspective, you can't admit that maybe there's a problem with it and maybe
00:08:47.300
Now, the pushback that I've sometimes seen is, OK, yes, it's really hard to get care for
00:08:55.140
something like cancer or, you know, something that needs a specialist.
00:09:00.980
But at least people don't have to pay out of pocket for, you know, just going to get
00:09:08.320
Or some people say, well, at least I can get my diabetes treatment medication so much more
00:09:16.100
And Canada, people are dying here because they're not even able to kind of treat these
00:09:22.500
more, you know, chronic diseases or more mild sicknesses.
00:09:28.700
What do you what do you say to that if you if you know a response?
00:09:34.240
Well, the first thing I like to bring up when it comes to the health care debate in the U.S.
00:09:37.800
is that a lot of people who are on the left like to paint it as, well, the current health
00:09:41.680
care system is what Republicans and people who are pro-capitalism favor and have put
00:09:49.680
I don't know anyone on any side of the political spectrum who is completely happy with the American
00:09:54.760
And I think Democrats have done a really good job trying to convince people that the Obamacare
00:10:00.260
system, which is in place in the United States now, is somehow the Republicans' fault, which
00:10:07.460
You know, people on the right also don't like what is happening with American health care.
00:10:11.680
And they want to want to implement changes to make sure that people are able to get affordable
00:10:19.020
And President Trump, he's actually I commend him for trying to tackle the issue of very
00:10:24.020
high drug prices, because right now what's happening with pharmaceutical companies is
00:10:28.340
that Americans are essentially footing the bill for all of these these advancements and
00:10:32.440
all this new medication that is then sold other places like Canada more cheaply.
00:10:36.720
So that's a really a systemic issue that I hope gets solved.
00:10:40.920
But it's not just a question of, oh, well, if Americans just paid less, then it would
00:10:46.820
No, because there needs to be that profit incentive.
00:10:49.880
And I have seen people kind of advocate for the idea of when it does come to drug companies,
00:10:54.520
kind of mandatory licensing fees for generics, where it's that if you if you're a drug company
00:11:00.900
and you come up with this new drug that is lifesaving, you won't have the ability to say, no, you can't
00:11:07.860
You have to grant them that license, but they need to pay royalty.
00:11:10.780
So that could be, you know, something along those lines could be a way to make sure that
00:11:15.860
research is still happening, but that it's affordable for everybody.
00:11:19.660
And again, I'm not a doctor in the medical profession, but I think it's an interesting concept.
00:11:24.540
And then when it comes to, I guess, more general illnesses that maybe aren't so time sensitive,
00:11:29.900
if you're talking about the flu, I know so many Canadians who will not go to the doctor
00:11:34.280
or the flu because they know it's going to be around a four hour wait time in a waiting
00:11:39.480
If you go to like a walk in clinic, that's that's very, very usual.
00:11:43.100
It's the same if you go to the emergency room and there's any type of triage, you will
00:11:46.280
be waiting unless it's like very, very, very serious.
00:11:48.960
And if you have a GP who you want to see, depending on the GP, it could be months and months for
00:11:54.460
your appointment where you're probably going to get better.
00:11:57.860
And the idea that, oh, well, at least it's not out of pocket costs.
00:12:00.680
What Americans don't understand is exactly how much taxes Canadians pay where I live.
00:12:06.100
Depending on your bracket, you could be paying the majority of your salary to taxes between
00:12:13.440
And, you know, a lot of people like to make it out as if Canada is cheaper to live in because,
00:12:17.620
oh, we have socialized medicine and kind of socialized higher education college.
00:12:21.740
The average Canadian has more, I guess, household debt than the average American.
00:12:26.780
So Canadians have a lot more financial burden on them than the average person in the United
00:12:32.820
And, you know, it's just due to the fact that, yeah, the government taking these costs out
00:12:38.060
of your paycheck at the end of every month, even the months you don't require health care
00:12:42.520
or even if you don't go to college, that doesn't make things cheaper.
00:12:47.240
And you're I mean, you're paying a lot and you're not paying for good quality care for
00:12:53.440
Like you said, I'm sure there are anecdotes from people who said, oh, it was great.
00:12:56.980
I had to get this knee surgery and I wasn't charged anything in the United States.
00:13:01.320
You know, I wouldn't have been able to I wouldn't have been able to have that procedure,
00:13:09.840
But something I always think about that Thomas Sowell says is that leftists typically judge
00:13:16.200
policies or policy proposals by their stated intentions, never by their results.
00:13:23.700
Oh, you want people to die who don't get health care and you want health care to be expensive
00:13:27.980
and drug prices to be basically unpayable by poor people in the United States.
00:13:34.860
You just want to have your own private health care and for everyone else to suffer.
00:13:38.000
I want universal health care and everyone to be paid for and everyone to be happy.
00:13:42.040
Like you were explaining, that's a false binary.
00:13:44.320
There could be some reforms to be made in American health care.
00:13:48.320
But by and large, I mean, this is the place that people go for innovative and quick and
00:13:56.080
And people just need to realize that that profit incentive for health care.
00:14:01.600
And I know that leftists don't even like those two words put together.
00:14:06.160
It is what drives quality care in the United States.
00:14:10.440
It's why we are the place that people go when they have situations like you and your dad.
00:14:15.980
And I just unfortunately, I don't think a lot of people realize that or think about the
00:14:23.240
And it's the idea of something happening to the American system to make it more like the
00:14:27.120
Canadian system, I think should terrify everybody.
00:14:29.960
Because if you if you are in a situation like my dad was in, exactly where do you go then?
00:14:34.860
Where is the fast, speedy option that you can rely on?
00:14:40.780
And, you know, you you you say profit incentive.
00:14:43.520
And I think that's a very important conversation to have.
00:14:45.520
And it's like the left can act as if, you know, just from the goodness of their hearts,
00:14:49.560
these doctors and nurses should be providing care.
00:14:55.340
Nurses and doctors deserve to be able to choose where they work and earn a comfortable living
00:15:01.560
And unfortunately for Canadians, that is what drives a lot of our health care professionals
00:15:06.540
to the United States, because they can you know, they can make more money.
00:15:10.280
They can have better hours working, you know, nicer hospitals and everything.
00:15:13.900
And it's like, not only do we have the shortage of like equipment because it's expensive here,
00:15:18.640
there's also just the shortage of health care personnel.
00:15:23.000
I know the NHS, the British system experiences similar ones, really.
00:15:27.740
I mean, it's all over the world that we have this this health care debate going on with
00:15:32.360
countries who have implemented universal systems.
00:15:34.500
And I don't know why, you know, in the American context, when these leftists bring up the idea,
00:15:39.480
hey, we should do this here, they act as if it's perfect everywhere else in the world when
00:15:43.900
The profit margin for Medicare is already razor thin.
00:15:58.500
That is why patients on private health care tend to pay more to make up for when you're
00:16:05.540
looking at the profits of a hospital to make up for sometimes the profit losses or the razor
00:16:10.040
thin margin of profits when it comes to the Medicare patients.
00:16:13.480
If everyone is on Medicaid, if everyone is on Medicare, the profit margin gets so small
00:16:20.660
that especially in rural hospitals that may not have as many patients, I mean, you're going
00:16:26.440
to have to either shut down the hospital or dramatically cut your workforce.
00:16:31.540
And then you don't have more or better health care that way.
00:16:34.080
That's what people don't understand is that without profit, there's not going to be as many people
00:16:40.800
You're not going to have that incentive for innovation when it comes to medicine, when
00:16:45.420
If you think that nurses and doctors are worn out now, which I think everyone has probably
00:16:49.600
been to a hospital and, you know, talks to that nurse who is on her 36th hour of her shift
00:16:55.380
or that doctor who is tired, if you see that going on now, multiply that by 10 under a Medicare
00:17:03.700
That's just naturally what's going to happen, whether we like it or not.
00:17:09.640
And I think what should scare people is the prospect, really, of not being in charge of
00:17:16.480
And something else that is very scary when it comes to these universal systems is the
00:17:21.980
issue of rationing care, which absolutely does happen.
00:17:25.120
I know when it comes to things like glaucoma treatments, you know, or cataract even, they
00:17:30.020
do make a judgment call, depending on your age, whether or not it's worth it for the state
00:17:39.360
And some people might say, you know, there's already rationing here with COVID.
00:17:42.820
Well, yes, maybe in some places, but that's a little bit different to have a full ICU unit
00:17:52.880
That is obviously very frightening and terrible.
00:17:57.400
But those kind of emergency and very rare situations is different than deciding who gets
00:18:02.000
glaucoma treatment or who gets cancer treatment.
00:18:04.740
That thankfully doesn't happen in the United States based on, okay, how many resources do
00:18:10.820
we have to allocate and who is worth it and who's not?
00:18:14.640
You don't want some bureaucrat, some administration official making the judgment call.
00:18:19.520
Okay, well, we could spend these resources to save this person's life.
00:18:22.780
They're already 67 and they're probably not going to be paying into the system anymore.
00:18:27.580
So do we take these resources and spend them on this person or this other person who is,
00:18:31.360
hey, maybe only 30 and has a lot more to give back to the system?
00:18:34.480
These are conversations that I don't think are moral to be having.
00:18:39.340
And, you know, the left can claim the high ground when it comes to these types of health
00:18:43.220
But I just, I'm sorry, as someone who's actually been through it and almost lost a family member
00:18:47.320
to it, I don't see this as the more compassionate answer.
00:18:51.020
And you also worry, it's not just dollar signs that these bureaucrats making these decisions
00:18:57.240
But you also worry, especially in the United States, where does someone's politics, where
00:19:03.580
And you've already kind of seen leftists on Twitter, blue checkmark saying, you know, if
00:19:07.540
someone was anti-mask or something, or if someone was a Republican who decided that we
00:19:13.920
should open up, they shouldn't get medical treatment.
00:19:18.200
Are people's political affiliations going to play into whether or not they're seen as valuable
00:19:24.200
or worth saving by the people in these universal health care systems that are deciding who gets
00:19:32.700
Is intersectionality and critical race theory going to play into those decisions of who gets
00:19:40.240
I mean, it's really frightening, especially when you think about all of the identity politics
00:19:45.240
and the polarization that goes on in the United States when you're talking about who gets medical
00:19:54.700
That's something that people need to think about before saying, yes, universal health
00:20:00.580
And this is actually something we've seen before in the UK.
00:20:03.460
A lot of hospitals or even just anywhere where you get service, they'll have signs that say
00:20:09.680
But in the UK, we've actually seen like the definition of violence be expanded to include
00:20:14.520
things like homophobia or Islamophobia or things like that.
00:20:18.420
So in the UK, it actually is the case, you know, it's probably not going to be exercised
00:20:23.760
But if let's say you have a sprained ankle or broken arm or something, and for some reason
00:20:28.600
the doctor perceives you as being some sort of bigot, whatever it may be, they will actually
00:20:37.020
But in a sacred system, you don't necessarily have the option of going other places.
00:20:42.660
This is something that needs to be talked about.
00:20:44.440
And I hope that people, especially in Canada or people who have lived abroad and have experiences
00:20:49.780
with these systems, that they kind of speak up.
00:20:52.940
Because unfortunately, you know, we do hear a lot about people who can't afford treatment
00:20:57.400
And I think there needs to be reforms to ensure that care is affordable and timely and et
00:21:04.380
American health care is not perfect, of course.
00:21:06.500
But the people who've had these experiences outside the US, we need to be equally vocal because
00:21:11.340
right now there's this imbalance in the media, making it seem as if in the United States,
00:21:15.720
people are dying on the side of the road, whereas, you know, everywhere else, it's just
00:21:19.620
you walk into a clinic, get as much health care as you want.
00:21:22.380
And look, once you get there, once you get to universal health care, there's no going
00:21:26.600
I mean, Republicans have been in charge of Congress and the White House in the United
00:21:31.020
States since Obamacare was passed, not the entire time.
00:21:34.800
But since Obamacare was passed, they've had the opportunity to, quote, repeal and replace.
00:21:38.780
They've been running on repealing and replacing or just repealing Obamacare for for years.
00:21:45.980
And you could say that's either because of the ineffectiveness of the Republican Party
00:21:50.480
in the United States, or you could just realize that what Ronald Reagan says is true, that
00:21:55.420
a government program is as close to eternal life as you get to experience on Earth.
00:22:01.860
And so just realize, just like with every collectivist program or collectivist regime, once you get
00:22:13.940
And I always just tell people, a lot of people really want to check out with politics right
00:22:18.240
You know, like I said, we're recording this in January.
00:22:19.960
People are like, OK, new administration, boring administration.
00:22:23.940
Don't need to pay attention to what's going on.
00:22:28.800
Don't stop paying attention because these changes happen little by little.
00:22:33.040
And all of a sudden, you've surrendered your freedoms and you did it in the name of not
00:22:36.900
wanting to watch the news anymore or not wanting to pay attention to politics.
00:22:40.620
And I think your story reminds us of the urgency of us all paying attention while we still have
00:22:51.100
And I think ultimately, even if you don't care about politics, politics still cares about
00:22:55.260
And these aren't people who are just happy to let you sit back and live your life.
00:22:59.180
These are policies that are going to affect you and your family every single day.
00:23:02.880
And I always say, if you care about people, you care about politics because politicians
00:23:10.760
And so people who say, oh, you know, I just want to I just want to focus on Christ and I
00:23:18.560
Well, Christ tells us that we should care about people.
00:23:22.840
And politics is not the only vehicle, of course, through which we care about people.
00:23:27.300
But it is one way, especially the most vulnerable are affected by policies which are affected
00:23:44.760
I have a great product for you and it is from a company called Kitty Poo Club.
00:23:52.440
And I know if you're not a cat person, you might not agree with me.
00:23:58.680
But one of the downsides to it is having to deal with your litter box.
00:24:04.900
And Kitty Poo Club makes it really easy, as easy as possible to do that.
00:24:09.960
It's a convenient all-in-one monthly litter box solution.
00:24:12.760
Every month, Kitty Poo Club delivers an affordable, high-quality, recyclable litter box that is pre-filled
00:24:24.240
And then when the month is up, all you have to do is throw the entire litter box away and
00:24:30.440
So you don't have to worry about, you know, pouring out the litter, then cleaning out the
00:24:37.240
They have a no-risk satisfaction guarantee and you can easily customize or cancel at
00:24:43.220
And so if you've got multiple cats, you can customize your subscription to that or what
00:24:51.900
So go to kittypooclub.com slash Allie and you'll get 40% off your first order plus a free
00:25:01.100
Go to kittypooclub.com slash Allie, that's A-L-L-I-E, kittypooclub.com slash Allie.
00:25:13.600
Speaking about healthcare, we were just talking a couple minutes ago about how, you know, there
00:25:19.280
are some people saying, well, if you didn't wear a mask or if you were against wearing
00:25:23.860
masks at any point in the last few months, then you should be denied healthcare if you
00:25:28.680
get COVID and go to the hospital or whatever, ridiculous things like that.
00:25:32.200
But that doesn't seem to be applied that standard to other unhealthy behaviors that
00:25:41.020
Like if someone smokes and they get lung cancer, of course, we still want them to be treated
00:25:46.560
If someone is obese because of an unhealthy lifestyle and they get heart disease or something
00:25:52.840
like that, then of course, we still want them to get treatment for that because that's
00:25:57.540
They're human beings, but that standard isn't necessarily applied.
00:26:01.920
And even some of these unhealthy lifestyles are being glorified.
00:26:06.100
And you've talked about this before, how body positivity, while it can be a very good thing,
00:26:11.500
also leads us into toxic realms of glorifying unhealthy behavior that then ends up not just
00:26:20.100
burdening the system, the healthcare system like somewhere in Canada, but also just it just
00:26:26.620
encourages people to live in a way that is not healthy for them individually, right?
00:26:32.140
And, you know, just to be clear, when it comes to body positivity, I absolutely think that
00:26:36.180
the way you look should not define your self-worth.
00:26:38.800
It's also very possible to be too skinny and that's not healthy either.
00:26:42.720
You know, there are parts of the body positivity movement that I think are worthwhile.
00:26:48.680
But it's kind of morphed for a lot of these activists into what's been known as like the
00:26:55.780
And again, like being fat doesn't make you a bad person.
00:26:58.920
And if, you know, if you want to live a certain lifestyle, that should be your choice.
00:27:03.680
But what bothers me is that there are these people and organizations out there who are
00:27:07.760
presenting the public with a false message that is that you can be obese and very overweight
00:27:13.820
and still be perfectly healthy, which is just not true.
00:27:17.520
You know, I like to compare it to smoking as you did.
00:27:20.060
There's a reason why cigarettes come with these big warning labels nowadays.
00:27:23.340
If someone wants to make the decision to smoke, knowing that it has health consequences, that
00:27:29.740
Same with, you know, eating a lot of, let's say, processed or fatty foods.
00:27:33.740
If you really want to do that and you're all right with the possibility of weight gain or
00:27:37.640
some of the other health risks like heart disease, that still should be your choice.
00:27:42.740
But you should be informed of the consequences when you're doing and that that's what really
00:27:46.360
bothers me about this this whole fat acceptance thing.
00:27:49.260
It's not that I think fat people should be shamed.
00:27:52.560
But don't lie to people when it comes to decisions they're making about their health.
00:27:58.900
And I think the good parts about the body positivity movement that I like, like I remember when
00:28:04.000
I was little and or like when you're just starting to pay attention to like pop artists
00:28:10.300
or like TV, I was probably 10 or something like that.
00:28:14.600
And I remember the look then was to have like super narrow hips and to have, you know, a super
00:28:21.280
flat stomach and everyone wore like the really low rise jeans and you would wear the shirt
00:28:28.240
And for some reason, like the bottom of your torso, like so disgusting.
00:28:32.400
And of course, I would have never been allowed to wear something like that anyway.
00:28:36.600
But I remember being like a preteen and wanting to dress like that and being like, well, my body
00:28:46.780
And I do think that having completely unrealistic standards for girls is unhealthy.
00:28:54.680
And one thing I like is that we are showing that, hey, you don't have to be a perfect size
00:29:00.420
two or have narrow, you know, boy hips in order to be in order to be pretty or in order
00:29:07.120
to be accepted, that there is a range of healthiness and there is beauty in the different kind of
00:29:17.480
There are different, there are different body types and there are different so-called imperfections
00:29:25.300
I think all of that is really healthy and really positive and something that should be encouraged.
00:29:30.720
I think exactly what you said when it goes to the point to where we're denying objective
00:29:35.040
truth that, okay, yes, you don't have to be a size two to be healthy.
00:29:40.300
But also there is a range of health that we probably need to stay in, in order to be scientifically
00:29:48.400
Like there are objectively consequences to being unhealthy with your lifestyle more than just
00:29:56.320
Like, I mean, there's diabetes and heart disease and things like that.
00:29:59.460
And so I worry that taking it too far, it's going to hurt a lot of people.
00:30:06.320
People like Lizzo, she said she was going to go on a diet or some juice cleanse or something
00:30:10.620
And people like ripped her head off for even thinking about that.
00:30:16.840
Why do you think people are so angry about it when people say, you know, actually it's,
00:30:21.160
I'm going to start, you know, losing weight or like Adele going on a diet or eating healthier?
00:30:27.040
Why do you think it's caused such, I don't know, an uproar?
00:30:33.320
And if your audience isn't familiar with it, yeah, you're right.
00:30:38.140
I'm not familiar exactly with what that cleanse entailed, but she said that she was doing it
00:30:43.900
And I think she may have ended up losing a little bit of weight, even though according
00:30:49.140
People can go on cleanse or detox journeys for any number of reasons.
00:30:53.400
But she was very, very viciously attacked and shamed for it.
00:30:57.020
And I think the reason why people, some of these people have this visceral reaction to
00:31:01.440
anything to do with weight loss or, you know, health is that, you know, in their minds,
00:31:05.540
if you're actually, you're, you're trying to lose weight or you think changing your,
00:31:11.040
That means that what they were like before was somehow less than perfectly desirable,
00:31:16.540
If you want to lose weight, that means you're, you're saying being heavier, isn't good.
00:31:20.780
Or like this food isn't as perfectly nutritious as this other food.
00:31:24.440
So, you know, it kind of chips away at the message that they're trying to send people.
00:31:28.600
And this is another really toxic element of the fat acceptance movement is if it's gotten
00:31:33.960
to the point now where we're actually shaming people for trying to make healthier choices.
00:31:41.300
Like, I think like so much of the, uh, I guess the 21st century, the name of the game here
00:31:48.620
We used to be shaming and bullying people and there are still people who get shamed and
00:31:54.680
And that's not okay either, but it's also not okay to bully people for trying to make
00:32:00.340
And, you know, to your point about what it's like to kind of grow up as a teenage girl with
00:32:04.800
all of these, you know, models who look nothing like your average person is that I do appreciate
00:32:10.420
how people are also speaking up about Photoshop and the way that it's used to manipulate images
00:32:15.680
in the media, because for a lot of girls, it's like, it's not just that you don't look like
00:32:21.360
It's that even the model in the magazine doesn't really look like the model in the magazine.
00:32:26.440
And, you know, so for fashion and makeup and things like that, they've actually taken things
00:32:31.000
to a point now where it's completely divorced from reality.
00:32:33.600
You don't see skin texture pores or any of the things you would see normally on a person.
00:32:38.120
And a lot of the times the things they're editing out, it's not, you know, that it makes
00:32:42.840
your skin healthy or unhealthy, it's perfectly natural.
00:32:45.420
It's perfectly natural to, like you said, have cellulite or stretch marks or, you know,
00:32:50.980
You know, it's all right to want to address these issues without kind of going totally
00:32:55.760
overboard and saying, all right, or throwing any type of health standards out the window.
00:33:12.840
You think about these poor teenagers, too, who are starting to get some kind of body dysmorphia
00:33:19.780
or like facial dysmorphia because of the filters that are on Instagram.
00:33:24.440
I don't have Snapchat, but I'm sure on Snapchat, I have no idea if TikTok has filters, but they,
00:33:31.100
I mean, I've seen some of those and you like put them on as a joke and you're like, oh my
00:33:40.460
And I think at this stage of your life, I'm, you know, 28 years old.
00:33:47.480
Like it doesn't make me insecure and make me think, wow, I really wish I looked like that.
00:33:51.120
But when you're 13, 14, 15 years old and you're just, you know, starting to try to be
00:33:58.660
comfortable with what you look like, I do think that things like that, those filters,
00:34:04.080
what you're seeing on social media, these unrealistic standards now.
00:34:07.460
It's, you know, you have to be super curvy, look like a Kardashian or whatever.
00:34:11.500
I think it can put a lot of a huge, a huge burden on people, but it's so insightful what
00:34:17.840
you said, the overcorrection of that also can be unhealthy.
00:34:23.760
And I guess it's just the responsibility of saying people to try to bring people back
00:34:31.060
It also reminds me when you said overcorrection of, okay, there are harmful gender stereotypes
00:34:39.060
If you're a guy, sure, you should be free to like dance or pink or whatever.
00:34:43.020
If you're a girl, you should be free to like mud or four wheeling, whatever.
00:34:46.920
But we have almost overcorrected what could have been seen as harmful gender stereotypes
00:34:54.000
And now we have decided, well, there's no such thing as real gender at all.
00:34:59.440
There's no real fundamental biological difference between a male and a female.
00:35:04.140
Do you see the consequences of that overcorrection as well?
00:35:07.900
And do you think that we'll be able to move it back?
00:35:12.780
And it's kind of frustrating because as someone who did grow up considering myself a tomboy,
00:35:16.980
you know, I look back to my childhood and I wonder what-
00:35:21.020
Which is very surprising because we spent 10 minutes before this talking about blow-drying
00:35:30.660
I used to be totally into the tomboy stuff, wore baggy t-shirts exclusively, things like that.
00:35:36.820
And, you know, I look back now, it's kind of like, wow, would I have been labeled some
00:35:40.840
sort of like gender fluid or non-binary thing if I had grown up nowadays?
00:35:47.840
You know, there was a time in history, which unfortunately not that long ago, within a couple
00:35:51.940
generations where, you know, if you were a girl and you didn't fit the exact female
00:35:55.800
archetype of being feminine and, you know, flirty, girly, beautiful, whatever, you were shamed
00:36:02.280
And likewise for men, if you didn't live up to that masculine ideal, then that was considered
00:36:08.280
I don't think that's, again, like bullying in general, not okay.
00:36:11.380
And I think people should be free to express themselves, even if the way that they do so
00:36:15.860
may not naturally fit their gender's stereotypical behavior.
00:36:20.640
You know, if your little girl wants to play with Hot Wheels instead of a Barbie, let her.
00:36:26.780
But now I think we've gotten to the point where we've not just wanted to allow people to live
00:36:32.380
more freely, we've actually begun deconstructing and debasing gender as an entire concept, which
00:36:41.560
And it's scary because especially like if you read, you know, what psychologists say about
00:36:46.780
raising healthy boys and girls, it's that, you know, a lot of the times the child's same
00:36:53.020
So if you're a daughter, your mother or son, your father, those are the strongest role models
00:36:59.860
And right now we're deconstructing the family and gender as well.
00:37:03.080
And I worry that there's like a lot of children who are going to be growing up not really knowing
00:37:07.020
what it means to be a man or a woman and not just for society, but for themselves.
00:37:12.180
And these are these are questions that I think, you know, every teen who's kind of growing
00:37:17.940
And I think we've kind of removed any form of guidance that as a society or as parents,
00:37:23.640
individuals, we might have been able to give those children because there is something
00:37:27.560
very fulfilling, you know, as a woman coming into your womanhood and being able to embrace
00:37:34.040
But, you know, just the fact that it should be there, it should exist is for some reason
00:37:39.860
Yeah, we've gone to the point to where we think that we can change human nature.
00:37:43.820
We're debating human nature as if it's up for debate.
00:37:46.860
We're debating biology as if it's having an argument with us.
00:37:54.060
I am I am what I am, except me or not, but I'm not going away.
00:37:58.280
And there's no societal change that that you can do.
00:38:02.400
No philosophical opining that you can do that is going to change biology.
00:38:07.240
And I think progressives hearing you say that, OK, you know, the family structure actually
00:38:13.340
has a biological, sociological aspect to it that affects a child's psychology.
00:38:23.520
It affects how they see themselves and their their own gender.
00:38:29.780
You can reconstruct the family however you want to.
00:38:33.780
I always say that progressivism gets human nature wrong.
00:38:38.340
When you debate nature versus nurture, they always say nurture, that human beings are
00:38:43.620
malleable, that we can change basically human nature to fit our societal whims.
00:38:48.480
The fact that for millennia, family has been made up of a mom and a dad and a child and
00:38:54.100
that we have split human beings between male and female.
00:38:59.300
We can change it because in the last five minutes we have decided to do that and no one will be
00:39:11.240
You can try to push it under the water as hard as you can.
00:39:16.900
I think that we're already starting to see that.
00:39:19.580
But it's not a pretty picture between the activists who want to deny biology and those
00:39:24.460
of us who are saying, hey, you know, science still matters.
00:39:28.120
We can debate the stereotypes for sure, but science still matters.
00:39:32.660
And I just worry about who's going to win that debate.
00:39:35.600
Unfortunately, the more I see news stories of, you know, different parents losing custody
00:39:43.160
battles because their child claims their trends and the parent doesn't want to give
00:39:47.100
them treatment, I'm more and more convinced that at the moment, at least the side of sanity
00:39:53.900
And it just means we need to speak up more and more because, you know, you ask the question
00:39:59.980
We're seeing children now starting to come forward of, hey, I had this hormone therapy
00:40:05.180
or surgery when I was younger because I thought I was trans, but I think I was just going through
00:40:13.160
Never mind when we just talk about the family more broadly.
00:40:15.380
We see that there is a distinct impact on a child's life.
00:40:19.240
For example, if a father is not present, if you look at, for example, delinquents or people
00:40:24.080
who are in juvenile detention facilities, one of the biggest overarching factors that
00:40:28.220
binds them together, it's not class, it's not race, it's the fact that they come from
00:40:37.160
Women who grew up without a father in the home are way more likely to, for example, become
00:40:41.260
pregnant as a teen or have a child out of wedlock.
00:40:45.140
And I feel like we've we've too far tried to compensate for being nice to people and
00:40:51.240
accepting every lifestyle where we've forgotten that actually, you know, there are people
00:40:54.980
who could be hurt if people make the wrong choices.
00:40:59.620
We don't it's like as a society, we've agreed, oh, we can't say anything anymore, which is
00:41:03.620
unfortunate for the people who are being hurt by these choices.
00:41:07.040
Children are almost always the subject of our social experiments and the people conducting
00:41:13.820
these social experiments really don't care how how the child turns out.
00:41:19.220
I mean, they are just they're just riding the waves of our progressive social whims and
00:41:28.980
And like you said, I think it's going to take this next generation growing up and given
00:41:36.340
the and being given the voice of being able to be honest and say, like, yeah, me getting
00:41:42.000
this treatment, this hormone treatment as a 10 year old wasn't good for me.
00:41:51.080
I like snakes and bugs, which is totally not me.
00:41:55.400
I wasn't athletic or anything like that, but I hated wearing a dress.
00:42:02.840
And I just I don't know if I was a tomboy, but I definitely was not girly.
00:42:10.980
I'm like, oh, my gosh, what if I had been what if my parents, you know, had been these
00:42:17.180
progressive people who had been told by some child psychologist, you know, about eight
00:42:22.540
years old, we need to start doing purity blockers.
00:42:30.900
I do think that we all need to speak up a little bit more.
00:42:33.780
Can you leave people with any kind of encouragement, motivation to speak up about all the issues
00:42:43.900
But really, the future of sanity is on sane people telling the truth, right?
00:42:51.840
Well, I think that there are more of us out there than we might think, because so many
00:42:58.380
And I know, you know, this is being filmed in January, but I'm sure things will probably be
00:43:02.600
the same kind of macabre feeling among a lot of conservative or Christian circles that,
00:43:09.380
And, you know, my Bible study is actually going through the book, like through judges
00:43:17.880
It is these times where things seem like they're going poorly or things are hard that people
00:43:22.980
who are convicted and have a message to send really have the opportunity to do so.
00:43:27.840
So I think it's not only an opportunity, it's also a responsibility for us to try to make
00:43:32.680
things better for future generations, for even us later down the line.
00:43:36.220
And, you know, this is not the time to sit back and give up.
00:43:44.320
I really appreciate you taking the time to talk to us.