Relatable with Allie Beth Stuckey - July 19, 2021


Ep 456 ｜ Modest Isn't Hottest ... But Is It Biblical？


Episode Stats


Length

33 minutes

Words per minute

176.64374

Word count

5,941

Sentence count

310

Harmful content

Misogyny

22

sentences flagged

Toxicity

6

sentences flagged

Hate speech

17

sentences flagged


Summary

Summaries generated with gmurro/bart-large-finetuned-filtered-spotify-podcast-summ .

Christian singer Matthew West released a song called "Modest is hottest" on Father's Day in which he encourages his daughters to wear modest clothing. Some people were offended by the lyrics, and there was a lot of backlash online. What does the Bible say about modesty and what does it mean to be modest?

Transcript

Transcript generated with Whisper (turbo).
Misogyny classifications generated with MilaNLProc/bert-base-uncased-ear-misogyny .
Toxicity classifications generated with s-nlp/roberta_toxicity_classifier .
Hate speech classifications generated with facebook/roberta-hate-speech-dynabench-r4-target .
00:00:00.000 Hello, hello. Welcome to Relatable. Happy Monday. Hope everyone had a wonderful weekend today. Not
00:00:17.000 as I'm recording this, but as you are listening to this, I'm actually in Nashville for the Candace
00:00:23.300 Owens show. So make sure that you look out for that. Super exciting. But today we are going to
00:00:29.060 discuss a controversial topic that many of you have asked me to discuss. And I've honestly been
00:00:35.580 kind of avoiding talking about it. It's not really because it's controversial. You guys know that I
00:00:41.560 don't avoid controversial subjects because, but because I haven't really decided how to properly
00:00:47.020 articulate what I think about it. But with so many requests on this and so many conversations about
00:00:57.440 this topic, which is modesty circulating on social media, especially in what's considered
00:01:03.480 ex-evangelicalism and progressive Christianity, I thought it might be time to bite the bullet and 0.72
00:01:09.880 just go for it. So that's what we're going to do. We're going to discuss what modesty means,
00:01:14.700 what the Bible says about it, what it looks like for Christian women and even men. There's no way, 0.91
00:01:20.340 though, for me to cover every part of this topic, but we're going to do our best to hit the important
00:01:26.700 points. And I want to kick this off. This is part of why I thought it was a good idea to talk about
00:01:33.460 this right now, because there was some drama that went on online centering on the subject of modesty
00:01:40.480 when Christian singer Matthew West released a song called Modest is Hottest on Father's Day,
00:01:46.220 where he talks about encouraging his two daughters to dress appropriately. I watched it on Instagram
00:01:52.020 when it came out, knew immediately what the reaction was going to be from some people. But I mean,
00:01:59.260 I laughed. I got what he was doing. It was obviously tongue in cheek. He might have been aiming to convey
00:02:05.340 a serious message that he wants to protect his daughters, but it was obviously lighthearted,
00:02:10.260 a little satirical, just trying to jokingly show that, you know, he is a protective dad of his
00:02:18.180 girls. Here's an example of some of the lyrics. I'm just going to read it to you.
00:02:22.540 Modest is hottest. The latest fashion trend is a little more Amish, a little less Kardashian.
00:02:28.200 What the boys really love is a turtleneck and a sensible pair of slacks. Honey, modest is hottest.
00:02:33.480 Sincerely, your dad. I mean, that's funny. That's cute. I mean, it's supposed to be
00:02:38.900 a joke. Ten years ago, no one would have batted an eye at that kind of thing, because at one point,
00:02:46.540 we all knew that most dads don't want their daughters leaving the house with most of their
00:02:50.780 body exposed. But some people took issue with the song. And I'm going to read you some of those
00:02:59.660 responses and a little bit of the backlash in just one second. But I've got to tell you
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00:04:34.520 slash Allie. All right, let's look at a little bit of the backlash, some negative responses to this song
00:04:45.980 by Matthew West that I think tells us a little bit about what popular culture and also those who
00:04:52.300 consider themselves maybe on the more progressive side of Christianity have to say about this
00:04:57.240 particular topic and the idea that was sung in the song. Singer Audrey Asad said on Twitter,
00:05:03.520 modest is hot as still centers men and their preferences in how women should look. Still
00:05:08.340 sets being found hot by men as the ultimate goal for women and positions all men as creeps who can't 0.95
00:05:13.640 handle seeing a woman's bare skin without turning into out-of-control monsters. Author Sheila
00:05:18.420 Gregore quote tweeted the song and said this, the age-old struggle is actually women feeling 0.98
00:05:25.260 responsible for men's sins. I know many think this is cute and fun, but obsessing over girls' bodies 1.00
00:05:30.340 without making reference to boys' responsibility is part of the problem. Let's raise girls and boys in
00:05:35.440 a healthy way instead. So those are pretty balanced and I think reasonable responses from people that
00:05:41.640 didn't agree with the message. Here is what one mom told Today. So this was picked up by some secular
00:05:49.160 outlets as well. Colorado mom Lisa Krutzinger, 30, told Today parents that she grew up listening to
00:05:54.980 Christian music and enjoyed it, but the narrative of the song is not something she would want her
00:05:59.180 daughter, Audrey Bell, to hear. What a girl wears does not equal her worth, Krutzinger said. Girls don't 1.00
00:06:04.700 wear clothes because it's what the boys really love. If you're comfortable in modest clothing, rock it. And if you
00:06:09.260 want to dance on TikTok in the clothes you love, don't let people like Matthew West tell you that's
00:06:14.020 quote, bad. There was also an Oklahoma worship pastor named Jeremy Coleman. He parodied some of
00:06:20.480 the song on TikTok. So Matthew West's version says this in one of the lines, if I catch you doing
00:06:25.760 dances on TikTok in a crop top, so help me God, you'll be grounded until the world stops. Coleman's
00:06:30.880 version goes like this. Well, if I catch you doing dances on the TikTok, wear what you want. Girl,
00:06:35.580 just go off. Hold your head up so your crown doesn't fall off. You're a queen if you forgot.
00:06:40.780 Here's the Newsweek write-up about that. It says, Coleman, who has three daughters, told Newsweek
00:06:46.040 his concern with West Song was the same concern with purity culture as a whole. We are telling our
00:06:50.940 daughters and young women that their body image should be defined by someone else's opinion. 0.94
00:06:55.280 Women should feel confident, comfortable, and free to dress and express themselves however they
00:07:00.380 want. There were several other TikTok parodies that were similar to his. Lots of mini influencers
00:07:08.300 on Instagram and YouTube talking about how toxic this idea is, how damaging it is. There were a lot
00:07:14.260 more less balanced and I would say a lot meaner responses from some people too, even professing
00:07:19.860 Christians towards this. So there was a good bit of negative media and social media attention for
00:07:26.560 something that probably, like I said a few years ago, no one would have really noticed. Now, Matthew
00:07:32.280 West ended up taking it down and he issued this statement. He said, I'm blessed to be the father of
00:07:38.380 two amazing daughters. I wrote a song poking fun at myself for being an overprotective dad and my family
00:07:42.960 thought it was funny. The song was created as satire and I realized that some people did not receive it
00:07:47.820 as it was intended. I've taken the feedback to heart. The last thing I want is to distract from the real
00:07:52.720 reason why I make music to spread a message of hope and love to the world. Proud hashtag girl dad.
00:07:58.640 So he doesn't exactly apologize, which people were upset about. And I want to try to offer as
00:08:06.520 sympathetic a summary as I can of the position of people who were upset that he posted the video and
00:08:12.660 then were upset that he didn't apologize about the video. And I'm going to get to that in just one
00:08:17.740 second. So here's what I believe the dissenters, the people who are pushing back against this,
00:08:28.980 and not just against this particular song, but really the whole Christian concept of modesty in
00:08:33.260 general or the larger purity culture in general. We've talked about purity culture on this podcast,
00:08:39.840 what the Bible actually says about purity and some of the negative parts about purity culture,
00:08:44.400 because people even within the church are fallible. And so they make mistakes that sometimes have
00:08:49.640 unfortunately damaging consequences. I think that's true of so-called purity culture. We'll talk a
00:08:54.420 little bit about that, but to try to sympathetically and as generously as I can describe what I think
00:09:02.520 people's feelings are about this song and about this subject, I would say that the argument goes
00:09:07.000 something like this. So by telling girls to be modest, they would say, we are making them feel that 0.66
00:09:13.300 the responsibility to control men's lusts and predatory behaviors is theirs. Rather than telling
00:09:20.540 men to behave, purity culture, they say, makes women bear the burden of men's sinful and sexual
00:09:27.560 thoughts. It therefore encourages a mentality of shame and even self-objectification for women and girls who 1.00
00:09:34.240 are being at least implicitly told that their bodies are dangerous or to blame for men's behaviors,
00:09:40.280 which then I think the logic goes leads to what some might call rape culture, because women are 1.00
00:09:47.160 taught that men can't control their sexual urges. And if they give into those sexual urges in the form
00:09:52.920 of predatory victimizing behavior, it's because of what the girl or woman did or said or wore. So I think
00:10:00.440 that is how the thinking goes of the people who are pushing back on this kind of stuff. And I truly tried
00:10:06.600 to be as accurate as possible in that. And I hear a lot of that. I really do. I really understand it.
00:10:13.480 I agree that ultimately, of course, men are responsible. We all are responsible for our
00:10:19.900 thoughts and actions. Absolutely. No matter what a woman is wearing, a man is responsible for what he 0.94
00:10:26.100 does and how he reacts. I agree that there are problems with so-called purity culture. I've talked
00:10:31.320 about a book that I read called Datable in high school, which I now realize or I realize several
00:10:37.380 years later is so toxic and damaging and wrong that compared people, young people to used cars,
00:10:44.280 losing value the more it was driven. Of course, comparing that to the sexual experience that you
00:10:50.000 have when you're younger before you get married. Or maybe you've heard of the analogy that was kind of
00:10:56.180 taught in some churches growing up of a rose that's been handled by a bunch of people. Then
00:11:01.460 it looks all, you know, torn up and wilted. No one would want the rose, right? Like you've probably
00:11:06.640 heard that kind of thing. They're terrible analogies. They're terrible. I'll never forget
00:11:10.720 watching a Matt Chandler sermon in, I don't know, 2010, 2011. I'm not sure when it was from,
00:11:17.860 but I remember watching it on YouTube when he talked about, when he was younger, listening to a
00:11:23.420 pastor giving that rose analogy. And his response in this sermon was Jesus wants the rose. And that's
00:11:31.600 exactly right. Thank the Lord. Our value and our wantedness is not diminished by how many guys we
00:11:36.960 made out with in high school, or even by someone getting pregnant out of wedlock or someone being a
00:11:41.360 prostitute. Jesus made a point to interact with women who had been sexually immoral and whom polite
00:11:46.740 society and religious legalists had cast aside. God seeks and saves the lost. He reaches and heals
00:11:52.940 the sick and the hurting. And I could see how creating shame around the body and sex can lead
00:11:59.780 a young person, especially a girl, to have a distorted view of herself and even maybe to blame
00:12:06.340 herself for inappropriate male advances and to maybe not speak up about them because she's been told that
00:12:12.560 that kind of behavior is caused by what she wears and that maybe she might have done something to make 1.00
00:12:18.240 this man give in to his lust. So I can see all of that. But here's my disagreement, or at least my pushback
00:12:27.720 to the pushback. I cannot go so far as to say that a parent just shouldn't have anything to say about
00:12:34.520 what their children, and yes, in particular, their daughters, wear. And to the Christians responding to 0.66
00:12:40.360 the song saying, well, girls should just be able to wear whatever they want to wear. Do you really believe 0.53
00:12:45.240 that? Like you really think it's good parenting to allow your 13, 14, 15 year old daughter to wear 0.96
00:12:50.860 whatever she wants dancing on TikTok? Like you're telling me that there is no standard whatsoever
00:12:56.440 that you would ask your daughter to reach when it comes to wear clothing? So if she wants to go to the
00:13:01.680 mall with her friends and she comes downstairs and clothes that basically amount to underwear, you as a
00:13:06.720 parent wouldn't say something about that? And if you do have any rules at all for what your daughter 0.97
00:13:13.160 wears, those of you who push back against, you know, something like Matthew West song, my question
00:13:18.160 would be, well, why do you have those rules? And if you don't have any rules for what your daughter 1.00
00:13:24.400 wears, you're telling me that you would be okay with absolutely anything that she wears in public or 0.98
00:13:29.640 posting on social media? Because here's the truth. If that's you, like you really just don't care in
00:13:36.800 whatever setting she wears, absolutely whatever she wants your 13 year old daughter. The truth is
00:13:42.860 there are like, whether we want to admit this or not, whether you think it's patriarchal to say this,
00:13:48.920 there are creepy predatory men on social media, watching your kids videos, whether, whether you want
00:13:56.800 to admit it or not. The vast majority of online sexual predators, harassers, assaulters, uh, people who 0.86
00:14:03.920 are rapists, groomers are men and they seek out, unfortunately, underage girls on these social 0.99
00:14:10.380 media platforms. That is a fact. So are you honestly telling me those of you who are saying, well, girls 1.00
00:14:15.640 should just be able to wear whatever they want without judgment. And it doesn't matter if your
00:14:20.840 daughter wants to wear whatever she wants dancing on TikTok. You're telling me as a dad or as a mom who
00:14:26.300 has been given the responsibility by God to protect your children, that you don't care if you're
00:14:32.040 underage scantily clad daughter is dancing on TikTok, where, you know, there are probably gross 1.00
00:14:36.780 men watching her. Now it is not her fault that those men are creepy, that those men are predatory 0.69
00:14:42.360 and that they're looking for videos of underage girls. That's not her fault, but those men do exist.
00:14:48.120 Like I said, that's a fact. And even off of social media, are there no standards of decency and dress
00:14:54.260 that you hold your kids to as far as covering parts of their body? I mean, of course there are,
00:14:59.380 of course there are. You wouldn't let your kids walk outside. I mean, you know, walk somewhere in
00:15:05.060 public, like the mall or somewhere in their underwear. Why not? Because it's inappropriate.
00:15:10.820 So if you will admit that, can you also admit that having rules for what your children and teens wear
00:15:18.160 with an aim toward protection and decency is okay? I'm just saying anyone who says that parents
00:15:24.560 shouldn't tell their daughters or just your kids in general what to wear or not to wear at all.
00:15:29.580 You're either terribly irresponsible as a parent, which I don't think that you are. I don't think
00:15:34.380 that's true of many of the people complaining about this particular song. But the other option is that
00:15:40.580 you're being disingenuous because most parents are going to have some kind of regulations around what
00:15:46.700 their kids can wear in public and on social media. The question is, what should those regulations be?
00:15:55.120 Not just for our kids, but also for ourselves. And more importantly, why? Because for the Christian,
00:16:01.640 it's about more than just rules. It's about more than creepy guys on social media. For the Christian,
00:16:07.400 we have to seek what God says about how we dress. And I'm going to get into the theological aspect
00:16:14.000 of modesty in just one second. So like I said, for us, it's the why that matters the most. That is
00:16:27.320 the thing that we must understand before we talk about how long your skirt should be or how high 0.69
00:16:33.840 your neckline should be. We have to know why there is even a conversation about modesty. Should there be
00:16:39.360 a conversation about modesty and what we wear or what we don't wear? I think there should be because
00:16:46.420 the same God who pours out grace and forgiveness on us, no matter what we've done, the same God who
00:16:52.780 wants the rose, who sees his children as righteous and holy and good, not because of what we've done or
00:16:59.360 who we are, but because of who he is and what he's done through Jesus on the cross does have something
00:17:05.240 to say about how we present ourselves and how we dress. This God, who as 1 John 4, 8 tells us is
00:17:12.580 love, who loves us so much as John 3, 16 says that he sent his son to die for us so that we could be
00:17:18.740 reconciled to him and spend forever with him, also says that how we dress and what we do with our bodies
00:17:25.620 matter. I grew up going to a Southern Baptist church, went to church camp where we were always told
00:17:32.800 the importance of waiting to have sex until we get married, not putting ourselves in situations
00:17:39.360 with the opposite sex where things could go too far, dressing in a way that doesn't cause guys to
00:17:46.000 lust. And so I'm familiar with all of this. And I will just say for me personally, though I can see
00:17:52.060 how some of these things and how they were taught could have negatively affected people, it didn't lead
00:17:58.840 me to be embarrassed about my body or into the mentality that sexual assault could be somehow my
00:18:05.620 fault or afraid of having sex one day. There's a lot of people who say that being told sex is bad
00:18:12.400 until marriage makes sex difficult once you get married. And that's probably true for those people, but
00:18:17.940 it really wasn't difficult to flip that switch. It was just, okay, sex before marriage shouldn't do it.
00:18:24.480 Sex after marriage should do it. Cool. A lot of the shame that I know some people feel from what
00:18:31.160 they say is a result of purity culture, um, just wasn't the case for me or for any of my friends
00:18:37.660 that I know who grew up in the same world that I'm not invalidating what other people felt or
00:18:42.160 experienced. I'm just saying for a lot of people, it was okay. Like it wasn't perfect, but it was okay.
00:18:49.320 And then for a lot of people also like the whole true love weights campaign actually was super
00:18:54.220 helpful for them and changed their mentality about sex and dating and their bodies for the better. 0.96
00:19:00.420 But here is my big beef with most of what we learned about abstaining from sex and what leads,
00:19:09.040 uh, leads up to it, uh, growing up, even though I didn't experience any like trauma from it.
00:19:14.940 My problem is I don't remember very often hearing why, what we wear and how we conduct ourselves
00:19:23.340 sexually matters. I don't remember hearing it tied to the gospel and to God's grace, but I rather heard
00:19:30.020 it tied to guilt tactics. Like, you know, you're really not going to want to tell your future
00:19:35.140 husband what you did with this guy you're dating now in high school. Cause after you tell him, he might 0.80
00:19:40.120 not want to be with you anymore. If y'all are engaged or dating, like you're going to be, or
00:19:45.400 there's something like you're going to be struggling with shame about this for the rest of your life.
00:19:50.080 And it's going to make your marriage really hard. Or for a guy, you're going to be thinking about
00:19:54.260 every girl that you ever done stuff with when you're having sex with your wife. And then girls 1.00
00:19:58.040 hear the same thing about their future husbands. And it's just like this whole idea of purity is tied
00:20:03.580 to what your future spouse is going to think. And when you're a teenager, there's no,
00:20:08.140 there's no guarantee that you're even going to get married. So what's the motivation for people
00:20:11.800 who aren't going to get married? If it's just tied to the shame that your future spouse might
00:20:17.580 make you feel. And while I think it's good to know what your spouse has done sexually before you
00:20:23.900 get married, especially after they became Christians, how I was told that those hypothetical
00:20:30.100 conversations about the past with my future husband would go down with tears and sadness and
00:20:35.360 shame and not knowing if like we can handle the thought of us having had, you know, been involved
00:20:41.360 with past significant others. It's just not how it happened. Like it doesn't mean it's fun to think
00:20:47.280 about, but we loved and love each other. So there was understanding, there was grace, there was
00:20:52.680 gratitude that through all of that, that we're together, there was just happiness that we have
00:21:00.340 each other. And I just don't think that the veiled threat that your future spouse may not want you
00:21:06.560 anymore. If you go too far with someone now is a good way to inspire abstinence before marriage.
00:21:12.280 It's just not, that's not a healthy mentality. And I think making modesty primarily about what other
00:21:19.120 people may think is also ineffective because these things are not what drive our conduct as Christians.
00:21:26.180 What we do, we do not do from fear, but from love. First John 4, 19 says, we love because he first
00:21:34.460 loved us. And John 14, 15 says, if you love me, you will keep my commandments. So because we love the
00:21:42.020 God that loved us so much that he sent his son to die for us, we seek to do what he says. We seek to
00:21:47.920 follow his commands because we are no longer who we were before we met Christ. We are no longer our own.
00:21:54.200 We are not our own authorities. We don't just do what we want or even wear whatever we want anymore.
00:22:00.540 There are three passages on that that I want to read. Ephesians 2, 1 through 5.
00:22:04.760 And you were dead in the trespasses and sins in which you once walked, following the course of
00:22:09.500 this world, following the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that is now at work in the sons
00:22:14.060 of disobedience, among whom we all once lived in the passions of our flesh, carrying out the desires
00:22:20.080 of the body and the mind. And we're by nature, children of wrath like the rest of mankind, but God
00:22:26.880 being rich in mercy because of the great love with which he loved us, even when we were dead in our
00:22:31.520 trespasses, made us alive together with Christ. By grace, you have been saved. Ephesians 4, 22 through
00:22:38.440 23, put off your old self, which belongs to your former manner of life and is corrupt through deceitful 0.62
00:22:45.240 desires and to be renewed in the spirit of your minds and to put on the new self created after the
00:22:51.740 likeness of God and true righteousness and holiness. And then 2 Corinthians 6, 18 through 20, flee from
00:22:58.160 sexual immorality, flee from it. Every other sin a person commits is outside the body, but the sexually
00:23:04.660 immoral person commits sins against his own body. Or do you not know that your body is a temple of the
00:23:12.700 Holy Spirit within you, whom you have from God? You are not your own for you were bought with a price.
00:23:21.640 So glorify God in your body. So if you are a Christian, a follower of Christ, you've accepted
00:23:30.160 by faith that God sent his son as a payment for your sin, and you are by faith committing to live
00:23:36.080 in accordance with what God says is good and right and true, then you are no longer your own. Your old
00:23:41.580 self is gone. The God of self that you used to worship is dead. So all of this self-empowerment talk
00:23:47.720 about you doing what you want to do when you want to do it is totally irrelevant in the conversation
00:23:53.260 about what life in Christ looks like. We're supposed to die to ourselves because we are now his. He
00:24:00.880 purchased us with his blood and he alone has every right to tell us what to do and what not to do,
00:24:08.440 how to dress and not to dress. And he does so not because he enjoys nitpicking, but because he loves us
00:24:14.860 and is dedicated to our holiness, we obey him. He wants us to be set apart. First Timothy 2, 8 through
00:24:21.820 10 says this, I desire then that in every place the men should pray, lifting holy hands without anger
00:24:29.200 or quarreling. Likewise, also that women should, uh, should adorn themselves in respectable apparel
00:24:35.180 with modesty and self-control, not with braided hair or gold or pearls or costly attire, but with what
00:24:42.520 is proper for women who profess godliness with good works. So just for some context, this is a
00:24:48.540 letter from the apostle Paul to his son in the faith, Timothy, giving pastoral instruction. He gives
00:24:54.120 some theological reminders, but is mostly giving practical advice about orderly worship, proper
00:24:59.160 behavior for the Christians in the church and things like that. So this verse in chapter two is
00:25:04.440 talking about in the context of the church, pointing to the importance of not distracting from worship,
00:25:10.440 either by causing other women to envy, uh, flashy clothing or encouraging men to look at them.
00:25:16.200 But because the word for modesty here in the original Greek, which is a he dose, uh, means
00:25:22.120 humility and reverence and really the opposite of self-focus or the desire for other people to look at
00:25:27.820 you. And because Christians are always called to humility, we understand that the call to modesty
00:25:33.860 also extends beyond the walls of the church. Colossians 3.12 says, uh, put on then as God's
00:25:40.600 chosen ones, holy and beloved, compassionate hearts, kindness, humility, meekness, and patience.
00:25:48.260 So what this tells us is that while there are external signifiers of modesty, first and foremost,
00:25:54.620 it starts in the heart. It starts with a heart that is totally in submission to God.
00:25:59.160 So focused on all the, uh, so focused on the, on all the, the attention and glory going to God
00:26:11.140 that she will do nothing, uh, to distract from that. Now we don't read here that women have to 1.00
00:26:19.120 wear a potato sack or can't wear makeup or brush their hair or look pretty. We simply read that she 0.61
00:26:25.400 dresses herself to point to God and not to point to herself, um, and to herself. And because modesty
00:26:32.280 is first about what comes from within, there may not be hard and fast rules about what women should 1.00
00:26:40.320 and shouldn't wear. And I say women, because this passage addresses women, not men about modesty and
00:26:46.380 how we dress. Now that does not mean that men aren't also called to modesty because like we've said,
00:26:51.780 Christian men and women are called to humility at all times. And that means men are also not to 0.88
00:26:56.440 dress in a way that intentionally draws eyes to themselves, but either for men or women, it is
00:27:02.420 of course, subjective. I haven't always gotten this right. That is for sure. I haven't always been as
00:27:08.020 modest as I could be, um, in how I dress, the older you get, I think like the, the more mature you are,
00:27:14.120 the less tempted you are to kind of toe the line when it comes to clothing, the more conservative,
00:27:19.280 probably your standards become, um, the appropriateness of dress may depend on the setting.
00:27:24.960 It may depend on the body type. It may depend on who's around you, but it's a little like the
00:27:30.520 legal definition of obscenity. Like, you know, it, when you see it, you know, modesty, when you see
00:27:35.080 it, there's too short, too tight, too low, too skimpy showing too much of, or getting too close to
00:27:40.700 showing anything that would qualify as indecent exposure. If revealed, uh, those are all possible ways
00:27:47.020 something can be immodest, but again, not primarily, not primarily because of the clothing itself,
00:27:53.760 but because of what it does and what it says about our hearts. That's what the Bible says.
00:27:59.700 And it's about to whom we are trying to give attention. And you might say, well, I wear this
00:28:05.980 for me. It's not for other people to look at me. Well, again, I would just say, even if that is true,
00:28:11.700 if you are a Christian, you were still bought with a price. And even if you wear that for you, 0.94
00:28:18.960 the question is never, well, what can I get away with? But rather as Christians, the question is
00:28:24.580 always, how can I most glorify God with what I wear? That may mean setting some rules for yourself.
00:28:31.440 And yes, for the kids to whom God has given you to steward, that is normal and good and responsible
00:28:38.400 and right. That is not teaching kids to be ashamed of themselves or that all men are predators who may
00:28:44.660 be provoked to rape because a girl's skirt is too short. That's not what teaching modesty means to 0.93
00:28:50.660 kids. It is saying, look, we are called to glorify God in all that we do. He tells us to dress modestly
00:28:57.840 and humbly. And in this house, here's what we think that looks like. And as you get older, we'll trust you
00:29:04.840 more and more to make those decisions on your own. I'm just kind of paraphrasing because I know those
00:29:09.480 of you who have walked through the teenage years with your kids would know better than I do. But
00:29:13.280 that's just what I'm imagining based on scripture, the conversation might go like that, hey, we will
00:29:19.500 trust you more and more the older you get based on what we've taught you. But we are still here to
00:29:24.540 guide you, to protect you, to set some parameters as long as you are under our care, because we love you
00:29:31.640 and we love the God who made you and the God who made you loves you. And this is what he says in
00:29:35.800 his word. And look, the reality that a lot of progressives don't want to face today is that
00:29:40.980 men and women are different. Like we think differently. We think about sex and the opposite 0.82
00:29:46.240 sex differently. Men are much more visual than women are. They turn to thoughts about sex much more 0.69
00:29:52.500 quickly because of a visual than women do. That does not mean women are responsible for men's 0.94
00:29:57.840 thoughts. Again, it's just acknowledging reality. And if we know that lust is a sin, as Jesus tells
00:30:04.380 us that it is, and if we love the men who are our brothers in Christ, then we should want to do
00:30:10.940 everything we can to help them out. Matthew 5, 27 through 29, Jesus says this,
00:30:17.340 you have heard that it was said, you shall not commit adultery. But I say to you that everyone who
00:30:22.900 looks at a woman with lustful intent has already committed adultery with her in his heart.
00:30:28.840 If your right eye causes you to sin, tear it out and throw it away. For it is better that you lose
00:30:34.460 one of your members than that your whole body be thrown into hell. So here, Jesus clearly does not
00:30:41.700 blame a man's lust or does not lay the blame for a man's lust at the feet of the woman after whom he is
00:30:51.340 lusting. So we shouldn't do that either. But we also take from this passage that lust is a huge
00:30:57.640 deal. It's an important sin. It's a bad sin, as all sin is. But it's a sin that Jesus took time
00:31:04.420 to point out. Jesus is saying that you should take very drastic measures to stop yourself from doing
00:31:11.260 this. So if we as women know that, and we know how the male mind works, and don't let anyone tell you
00:31:18.640 it doesn't work that way. By the way, you'll also notice that Jesus is addressing men in that passage.
00:31:24.640 Isn't it the loving thing to do to, within reason, dress in a way that is not intentionally
00:31:33.380 distracting? Again, you can't control what someone thinks or does. And I'm not saying that you can.
00:31:38.460 I'm also not saying that you should be ashamed of your body because your body was made by God and is
00:31:43.140 good. I'm not saying that a man that is your husband thinking about you sexually is wrong,
00:31:48.380 because God calls that sexual relationship good too. I'm talking about loving the body of Christ
00:31:54.340 by doing what we can to spur them on towards holiness by conducting ourselves with modesty and
00:32:00.740 humility. Mark 7, 20 through 23 says, Jesus says this, and he said, what comes out of a person is
00:32:07.880 what defiles him for from within out of the heart or from within out of the heart of man come evil
00:32:13.980 thoughts, sexual immorality, theft, murder, adultery, coveting, wickedness, deceit, sensuality,
00:32:21.020 envy, slander, pride, foolishness. All these evil things come from within and they defile a person.
00:32:28.340 Jesus said that. I sometimes wonder, like when people try to paint Jesus as the person who doesn't
00:32:34.460 care about sin. I'm like, what Bible are you reading? These sins are big deals and they obviously
00:32:40.120 have bad consequences. So love would say that we do what we can to resist these sins ourselves
00:32:48.060 and to help those around us to do the same as much as is within our power. So here's my conclusion.
00:32:55.380 Critics of purity culture have some good points. Absolutely. But there is no reason, certainly no
00:33:01.620 biblical reason to throw the baby out with the bathwater and say that what we wear doesn't matter 0.99
00:33:07.340 to God because it does. It does matter to him. And God loves us very much. And I have to trust he
00:33:13.320 absolutely knows what's best for us and that we will never go wrong if our desire and all that we do
00:33:19.960 is to honor him. And I pray that he gives me the grace to do that better and better and to teach
00:33:25.280 our kids to do the same thing. And I pray that for you guys as well. Tough topic. I hope that I
00:33:33.200 covered it in a way that makes sense and is helpful for you guys. I will see you guys back here tomorrow.