Relatable with Allie Beth Stuckey - Ep 477 ｜ Why Biden Is Turning His Back on Americans in Afghanistan ｜ Guest： Rebeccah Heinrichs

00:00:00.000 hey guys welcome to relatable happy wednesday hope everyone is having a great week hope you

00:00:15.960 enjoyed yesterday's episode we kind of took a breather and a break from the news talked to a

00:00:21.540 mental health professional who helped us understand where anxiety comes from how to handle our anxiety

00:00:29.180 and then she also gave tips to parents that are dealing with teenagers that are dealing with

00:00:36.360 anxiety and depression and she just gave us a whole lot of really practical helpful tools so

00:00:41.900 if you are looking for a refreshing practical episode a break from everything that's going on

00:00:49.420 in the world if you have been struggling with anxiety i know a lot of you have then i really

00:00:53.980 recommend yesterday's episode i personally found it um extremely extremely helpful um especially just

00:01:01.460 with feeling sometimes like the weight of the world is on our shoulders uh today we are going to talk

00:01:07.200 about something that's going on in the world we're going to talk about afghanistan we're going to get

00:01:11.960 an update on everything that's going on with that uh what the biden administration has done and what

00:01:18.140 they have said this week i'm going to talk to rebecca heinrichs she is an expert on all of this

00:01:24.320 we've had her on before to talk about um china and just geopolitics in general she has been in this

00:01:29.780 spheres for a sphere for a very long time always appreciate getting her perspective she's also um she's a

00:01:36.920 christian she's a mom of five and so not only does she have a very smart and expert take on everything

00:01:42.120 but she also has a very compassionate in and human perspective that she um puts all puts into all of

00:01:50.300 her uh foreign policy analyses and so i'm really excited for you to listen to this conversation

00:01:57.860 um without further ado here is rebecca heinrichs

00:02:01.500 rebecca thank you so much for joining us again last week we talked to morgan ortegas and she kind of

00:02:10.780 gave us a rundown on the context just going all the way back to why we're here and why we are seeing

00:02:18.120 everything that we're seeing right now i would love for you to kind of bring us up to speed biden has

00:02:25.320 addressed the nation a few times telling us what his plan is to get americans out but it seems like

00:02:30.960 that plan is not actually following through so where are we right now great so thanks for having me back

00:02:37.760 um president biden has now addressed the nation a couple of times of course without taking questions

00:02:43.320 afterwards and so there are some big questions that the press has had that have gone unanswered

00:02:50.000 jen sackey of course the press secretary has tried to handle some of those the big question that was

00:02:55.460 kind of hanging over the heads of people is is this august 31st deadline um something that

00:03:03.520 biden is going to enforce um or not now the august 31st deadline was something that was agreed upon

00:03:11.660 with the united states and the taliban the taliban has said you cannot go beyond august 31st

00:03:18.120 so whoever you're going to get out of the country you have to head them out by august 31st

00:03:22.520 nato um and some of our other european ally partners wanted the united states wanted our side the

00:03:31.480 good guys to extend the deadline until we got everybody out right and they they were under

00:03:37.140 the impression that that the united states would do that boris johnson had really argued for that

00:03:42.280 from the uk biden said no so we've essentially have sort of the making of a hostage crisis here we

00:03:48.360 because we still have thousands of americans uh citizens still in afghanistan i think the last

00:03:53.880 number i saw was last week the department defense said there was 11 000 american citizens still in

00:03:59.600 afghanistan and then the white house um said now that there's about um i think there's about 7 000

00:04:06.620 left still in the country and the priority at this point for people getting out is going to be u.s

00:04:12.080 military forces so they are already starting to come home coming out of afghanistan so we're going to

00:04:17.340 have american civilians and those civs those individuals who have visas who've been working with

00:04:23.420 the united states who are afghan nationals are still going to be stranded behind um you know behind um

00:04:29.560 and and under the control of the taliban okay so the u.s military is starting to evacuate and so

00:04:37.160 civilians are going to be left behind is there any plan at all to get those civilians home or is it just

00:04:43.480 kind of like they have to figure it out no the way i think about this is you know i think there's a

00:04:48.260 couple of things that are starting to kind of bother me about that thing how people are thinking

00:04:52.800 about this one you know a lack of a plan means that that is the plan so the plan for the bide

00:04:58.240 administration is to leave american citizens behind after august 31st um that is the plan there there is

00:05:07.200 no other i mean if there if people want to evacuate there's there's not there's no practical

00:05:11.900 logistical way to get people out the the biggest flaw in all of this um which is something that this

00:05:18.020 administration continues to be defiant about was the decision to shutter bagram air base this

00:05:24.180 sprawling it was the epicenter of of what we were doing in afghanistan we did not have to abandon that

00:05:31.040 base we abandoned that base and so the ability to airlift to get people out has been very very limited

00:05:37.340 because we're going by that that karzai that international airport that that smaller airport

00:05:41.720 biden administration keeps saying bagram was too far away from the embassy and that's that's the

00:05:47.520 reason we made the decision that's not true it's only about 35 miles from from kabul right so um and

00:05:53.700 there's a main road that takes you there so it is i mean incompetent isn't even the right word people

00:05:59.720 keep using that word because incompetent connotes that there was a lack of skill i mean this was just a

00:06:04.300 series of horrific judgments that aren't even nothing of the past they continue to be made joe biden

00:06:10.860 continues to make these bad judgments so again um you know i think we're watching the making of a

00:06:17.860 hostage crisis and when i'm looking towards ali is september 11th 20 year anniversary you know what

00:06:23.620 is the taliban going to do to to celebrate the defeat of the united states and nato which is exactly

00:06:29.840 how they perceive what's happening what's happening um and especially whenever there's u.s citizens that

00:06:35.480 are left behind i mean there are private citizens in the united states who are actually going to

00:06:41.440 afghanistan to try to rescue people there specifically christians for example glenn becky

00:06:48.360 something called the nazarene fund um they are you know actively trying to conduct their own rescue

00:06:55.700 missions to go to go get american citizens and to go get christians i know people from other

00:07:01.440 missionary organizations that are trying to do the same thing simply because we can't trust right now

00:07:07.460 the government um and their commitment to actually rescue americans and we've also seen that military

00:07:14.680 in uh from france from the uk from i think ukraine are actually going and actively trying to uh get

00:07:23.980 trying to um rescue their citizens and take them home and yet is it true that

00:07:31.300 our troops they're instructed not to actually leave the the airport is that what's happening

00:07:37.020 so that's um it's a great question so yeah some private citizens are like chartering planes to get

00:07:43.200 into the country coming in through pakistan and other countries and then as you said there's other

00:07:47.620 countries like the french that have essentially sent in special forces to go wherever their people

00:07:53.220 are and wherever their afghan partners are these are afghan these afghans who are still there who 0.99

00:07:58.980 sided with the united states in the west these are people who had plenty of options to bail and go

00:08:03.840 side with the taliban and they did not they were counting on us and so those other countries have 0.98

00:08:08.840 gone outside the perimeter of the airport to rescue their people the united states has not done that until

00:08:16.920 very recently i i heard i saw some reports that there was some of that was beginning to happen a little

00:08:23.740 bit um with some army i think operations that were going beyond the perimeter a little bit

00:08:28.680 but for the most part um that that is not something that biden wanted to do he he doesn't you know and

00:08:35.600 i think ali you know i think he's really just so focused on optics you know i think that he didn't

00:08:40.900 want bagram because he didn't want to be surging troops in to carry out this evacuation because he

00:08:45.680 didn't want it to look like we were sending more people back into a military base to conduct military

00:08:51.540 operations he doesn't want it to look like we're expanding operations and going beyond the the

00:08:57.080 airport he's so focused on these trivial things um when we have lives on the line american security on

00:09:06.800 the line billions of dollars of military weapons and equipment that are now going straight into the

00:09:12.960 hands of the taliban or going to be peaced out and going to go to the russians and the chinese or

00:09:16.860 whoever the taliban want to send them to if biden is he's being defiant about this and continuing to

00:09:23.400 make what i think are horribly shameful decisions um you mentioned that it's not incompetence

00:09:32.660 so what is it like you mentioned how you know how far away that it was only 35 miles of distance and

00:09:42.840 obviously they they had to have known that um they had to have anticipated that this whole thing could

00:09:48.880 have gone down exactly the way that it did obviously intelligence reports let us know that this was a

00:09:56.900 possibility um so if it's not incompetence then then what is it i mean i'm trying not to just think that

00:10:04.280 they're completely malicious and they want the destruction of the united states and they want to

00:10:09.340 strand americans there i would rather ascribe this whole this whole thing to some kind of i don't 0.99

00:10:16.980 know stupidity or clumsiness or something but you're saying that it's it's probably not that so 0.98

00:10:23.240 what is it i think that what it is ali you know biden has had decades i mean i've been watching joe biden's 0.97

00:10:30.860 foreign policy positions and listening to how he thinks about things and how he talks about things

00:10:34.820 he he does not have sound judgment you know you weigh you weigh your options and you pick sometimes

00:10:40.760 none of your options are great but you pick your best one um and and then if that doesn't work you

00:10:46.680 have to admit this didn't work i picked one an option that didn't work real life happened and now we're

00:10:52.200 going to have to change he has demonstrated that he's not willing to do that he is inflexible and he

00:11:00.000 becomes committed to i to decisions that he has made even when facts on the ground change it's like

00:11:07.020 he has tunnel vision i think he is very motivated very motivated for this political um you know he

00:11:15.080 thinks the americans want out of afghanistan right and therefore i'm just going to get out of 0.76

00:11:20.460 afghanistan and maybe he had a briefing 10 years ago where he heard a bad briefing about u.s casualties

00:11:25.360 we ali you know the other thing too we have not had large numbers of u.s forces in afghanistan since

00:11:31.140 about 2015 and then president trump of course shrunk us way down to 2 500 troops in country but when joe

00:11:38.840 biden talks about afghanistan he talks about as if americans are you know dying daily and by by large

00:11:45.940 numbers when that's simply not true it's almost like he got a briefing you know 10 years ago or 15 years

00:11:51.720 ago and then went to sleep and woke up and then that's the intelligence he's using to make these

00:11:56.040 decisions um it's a strange thing but i i do think that the answer is he's just he's got tunnel vision

00:12:02.080 for this political calculation that he's made and he's just inflexibly um doggedly committed to this

00:12:10.400 deadline and to these optics i mean in the face of enormous ally um anger frustration using words like

00:12:20.680 betrayal um so this is going to derail all of what joe biden wanted to do in his foreign policy i don't

00:12:27.520 see how we get around it i mean yeah you know he claimed that america was back we're going to work

00:12:31.500 with allies um this has done major damage to those relationships you talked about optics the optics are

00:12:41.260 terrible i mean i i guess just so he can say hey we finally withdrew from afghanistan many other

00:12:49.440 presidents have promised to do it but i actually did it so i guess in that sense that is superficially

00:12:56.340 you know he thinks it's beneficial for him politically in some way but the optics of it

00:13:02.220 are truly terrible i mean the images and the stories that we're seeing even from the liberal media coming

00:13:07.780 out of this just the chaos and the loss of life that maybe he's right maybe some of that would have

00:13:14.700 been inevitable maybe some of it i don't know but it does seem like the recklessness with which we

00:13:21.060 withdrew exacerbated at the very least if not fully caused everything that we are seeing at the kabul

00:13:30.520 airport right now um and then you know we've got some people who are frustrated by the fact that

00:13:36.600 um not that we're accepting refugees i think most people are on board with that i'm on board with that

00:13:43.360 um but that there seems to be a higher priority to do that to resettle refugees here than um the

00:13:51.720 priority to actually rescue american citizens do you think that frustration is is justified or do you

00:13:58.580 think that um or or do you think that people are being a little bit too uh harsh when it comes to

00:14:06.340 that perceived prioritization no i don't i think people's frustration is is justified i think what's

00:14:14.360 happening now is they're just trying to get bodies on airplanes and because it's so difficult to process

00:14:19.140 people you know they're just being swarmed and so they're just getting bodies on airplanes it's very

00:14:24.260 difficult to sort of go through and figure out who's an american citizen and who's not um i've heard

00:14:29.100 terrible reporting that the taliban at these checkpoints are ripping up credentials that people have

00:14:35.620 that shows that they are american citizens um the other thing the other thing ali i think you know

00:14:41.020 to your point about how the the liberal media is who is you know normally not covering the biden

00:14:46.640 presidency as critically as they ought to be one of the reasons i think they're taking this so um

00:14:52.580 you know covering it i think so thoroughly and so accurately too is a lot of these media outlets

00:14:58.380 have been working with afghan nationals for years covering the war and so it's very deeply personal

00:15:04.580 for them and so you know they that's why you've seen again you've fox news went around and and got

00:15:11.520 some of their own people out you've got you know these separate news organizations that are actually

00:15:15.700 going in there and trying to evacuate their own people because they've been working side by side to

00:15:19.280 provide coverage of this war for 20 years um and that's and so there's no way around it it's a

00:15:24.980 humanitarian crisis happening in the making and so they're just covering it accurately and you can tell

00:15:29.920 the biden officials are getting very frustrated yeah with the way the media is accurately covering

00:15:36.160 what's happening but they're just doing their jobs um so anyway i do think the american people are i'm i

00:15:42.020 think that they're i understand their frustration but they're just trying to get people on those

00:15:46.020 airplanes and so that's who's there at the airport who they can who they can board quickly

00:15:49.700 um speaking of the biden administration getting a little testy about this jen saki who even though i 0.98

00:15:56.100 don't agree with her i think that she does she does a pretty good job with the with what she has i

00:16:01.140 think press secretary is probably a really difficult job um but she got a little bit testy this week 0.94

00:16:07.520 when fox news um asked her like okay so what are we going to do about these americans stranded and i want

00:16:13.320 to play that clip most of the criticism is not of leaving afghanistan it's the way that he has ordered

00:16:20.700 it to happen by pulling the troops before getting these americans who are now stranded does he have

00:16:26.720 a sense of that first of all i think it's irresponsible to say americans are stranded

00:16:30.120 they are not we are committed to bringing americans who want to come home home we are in touch with them

00:16:35.040 via phone via text via email via any way that we can possibly reach americans to get them home if they

00:16:41.680 want to return home there are no americans stranded is the white house's official position on what's

00:16:47.340 happening in afghanistan i'm just calling you out for saying that we are stranding americans in

00:16:51.960 afghanistan when i said when we have been very clear that we are not leaving americans who want to

00:16:57.540 return home we are going to bring them home and i think that's important for the american public to

00:17:01.400 hear and understand okay so she basically is saying you know no i don't i don't want to hear that

00:17:09.360 language that's just that's just not true but i mean is it is it true to say that americans are

00:17:14.580 are stranded or is that unfair somehow no that's just by definition what they are they're stranded

00:17:21.300 they're not going to have a way to evacuate they're behind enemy lines um you know senator

00:17:27.420 cotton's staff has been keeping people updated on who they're talking to and what they're hearing via

00:17:33.520 twitter and other um means of communication and there are american citizens who are having their their

00:17:40.540 limbs broken their backs broken by by the taliban at these checkpoints they want to get out these are 0.98

00:17:46.720 not people who are happy to be there and they can't get past the checkpoints so i mean they they are

00:17:52.860 stranded and as i mean i cannot imagine being them right now knowing that u.s forces are now leaving

00:17:59.060 i mean they're drawing down now and the priority is to get u.s forces out of there so yeah i mean i i don't

00:18:07.020 that is what's happening i know that jen saki doesn't like that so she's trying to pivot and 1.00

00:18:11.100 say but look how many people we did get out and again it's the tone and the defiance and the lack

00:18:17.120 of of just even uh concern of the human tragedy that is unfolding before us that i think

00:18:25.180 is shameful and americans should it's unsettling to see your your own government behaving in this way

00:18:32.580 it's really unsettling it really is and i was very unsettled when i saw the secretary of state he was

00:18:38.320 talking to chris wallace on fox news on sunday and he basically said look the taliban is in charge

00:18:47.080 like if they're going to be because there's these you know checkpoints before the airport that even if

00:18:51.900 an american citizen gets to the airport i just heard um a story uh yesterday from an american citizen

00:19:00.180 his wife his eight-month-old child they finally made it to the airport and once they got there

00:19:07.860 um the uh the the taliban did it didn't matter like you said it didn't matter that he had his

00:19:14.980 credentials it didn't matter that technically he was supposed to be allowed to get on a plane and leave 0.97

00:19:21.180 the taliban said if you show back up here we are going to kill you um and so 1.00

00:19:27.240 now we're hearing from the secretary of state that sure maybe that's not a good thing but there's 0.96

00:19:33.940 nothing that we can do about it because the taliban's in charge i mean is that typically is like do we

00:19:39.360 defer to terrorists is that typically what the you know the world's superpower the most powerful country

00:19:46.600 in the world typically does is kowtow to the taliban when our citizens are in danger no it's it's you 0.96

00:19:54.760 you can't get around the conclusion that this administration has has essentially just accepted

00:20:01.220 defeats i mean this is just there there is a military solution if the united states

00:20:07.040 of america wanted to make sure we got all of our people out you can say do not lay a finger on the

00:20:13.880 on the you know i do not touch a hair on the head of any american we are getting all of our people out

00:20:19.380 when our people are out you then we're gone and and that's just what they could have told them and

00:20:24.640 we have the military ability to carry that out right you would have conflict no doubt but that is not

00:20:30.920 something that the president of the united states was willing to do and general austin actually said a few

00:20:36.220 days ago we don't have the capacity which is crazy crazy that's so crazy ali it's not true and i just i

00:20:44.500 i cringed when he said that because he knows better um we do have he means that he has not been given

00:20:51.260 the ability he has not been authorized to do that we certainly have the firepower to do that we we have

00:20:57.940 the firepower even just around there that around the region not even just sort of like in theory

00:21:03.660 we have it right there you're choosing not to do this not to do that and um you know again the taliban

00:21:10.840 wanted the united states to leave for years and years and years they never wanted us in there

00:21:15.120 so it's not true that we could have had a plan that was a long lead up for evacuation and the

00:21:23.340 taliban would have let the united states go but now we've essentially handed them all of this leverage

00:21:29.220 and power look how powerful the united states of america has made the taliban right in these remaining

00:21:36.300 days i mean this is still a you know this the taliban should not have all of this american

00:21:43.000 weaponry they should not be dictating the terms they should not be setting the deadline and yet they

00:21:47.820 are and and the world's preeminent power military power is listening to them um you know i one more

00:21:55.540 thing i would just say to you know i i traveled to a middle eastern country years ago when when

00:22:01.540 president bush was president and i remember even i even left the compound for a little bit because i

00:22:07.060 wanted to visit with um other americans who were in country and i remember just thinking nothing is

00:22:13.560 going to happen to me and maybe that was naive you know you're you're you're kind of a little bit more

00:22:18.120 reckless before you're married with kids i think but but i remember thinking nothing's going to happen

00:22:23.940 to me because i'm an american citizen and the risk would be so great and the penalty so high

00:22:30.260 that that nothing is going to happen to me while i'm here right i remember thinking that and i that

00:22:36.380 is no that is no more that is long gone i wouldn't count on that at all with this presidency and um and

00:22:44.080 my heart is just it just aches for those american citizens who that their citizenship essentially is

00:22:49.040 is worthless right now in afghanistan right and um it's just a terrible thing to watch you really it's 1.00

00:22:56.540 almost like you're watching the decline of the united states just happening happening rapidly right

00:23:01.900 right before us on national tv and it's just so hard not to think that that is intentional again i don't

00:23:10.020 want to ascribe the most nefarious motives to this administration when so much could be chalked up to

00:23:16.800 just fumbling the ball and incompetence but with all the intelligence that journalists have that just

00:23:22.240 regular citizens have that even just the average joe could look at this situation and say okay i can at

00:23:29.680 least see a couple ways that this could have been done differently in order to prioritize people's

00:23:34.740 lives and especially um american lives and so it doesn't take a genius it doesn't take um someone who

00:23:41.640 has been in office for you know over 40 years to figure out how this probably could have been done better

00:23:48.100 and yet every step of the way just like you said not only are all of these missteps made if you could

00:23:55.620 even generously i guess call on that but also the defiance the defensiveness when george stefanopoulos

00:24:02.140 asked joe biden you know george stefanopoulos is basically a democrat operative and this is about as

00:24:08.180 hard as he was going to push this president he's like oh you don't think that maybe may i don't know like we

00:24:13.900 couldn't have done anything differently like trying to give him some opportunity to salvage this like

00:24:18.380 not even like one tiny tiny tiny detail could have been arranged differently and joe i didn't know no

00:24:25.420 no you know that was four or five days ago that we saw people falling from planes every time he gets

00:24:30.800 any pushback by a reporter in a press conference like he said he literally turns his back on the

00:24:36.380 american people and i can't think of like a better symbol of what's happening right now do you think

00:24:43.540 he recovers from this whole thing do you think that the media will eventually circle the wagons

00:24:47.820 and say okay gotta get behind joe can't lose the midterms um i i don't know i mean i know that the

00:24:54.920 reporters who again who've been covering the war the pentagon reporters i don't see them moving on from

00:25:00.380 this so quickly i mean there this is the ramifications for this are going to be ongoing um so we we've got

00:25:07.920 i think months of coverage of of even just the immediate fallout and then also what's going to

00:25:14.540 happen with nato allies as we move forward in other ways here's the other thing too we never even

00:25:19.160 president biden had just committed to nato back in june i think it was that we would have an over

00:25:25.460 the horizon plan for for continuing to do counterterrorism operations as a team as a nato team

00:25:32.480 to conduct counterterrorism and then he pulled out of made the decision to pull out of bagram which

00:25:37.120 is that that was abandonment there's not even a plan at this point ally to continue counterterrorism

00:25:42.060 operations from what's going to be now a full ecosystem of terrorism that's going to find harbor

00:25:47.660 in in um afghanistan with the taliban in charge so i mean again i think it's just this this defiant 0.59

00:25:54.260 attitude um the you know basically acting the president from the president to saki you know just saying

00:26:01.000 this is just what withdrawal is this is just what withdrawal is and the american people wanted

00:26:04.540 withdrawal so this is what they wanted you know kind of pitting the plane the the it's our blame

00:26:09.580 on the american people and then also on the afghan national security forces for not defending their

00:26:14.180 country but you know again for somebody who's not even you just have to read the news kind of

00:26:20.200 periodically and kind of read what's going on the foundation for defensive democracies has great

00:26:24.460 reporting on this over the many years you should have known that the taliban was going to take

00:26:30.680 over as soon as the united states stopped providing air support and direction into these young afghan men 0.99

00:26:38.220 you know who were doing the ground fighting in afghanistan so when when when our military and

00:26:43.820 political officials say we didn't know the taliban was going to take over so quickly how could you not 0.99

00:26:49.400 how could you not if you knew what was going on in afghanistan um and so it's it's you know bad

00:26:56.260 assumptions delusional overly optimistic assessments this liberal idealism about what can be accomplished

00:27:03.220 in afghanistan all of it's compounded um in in this disaster that's unfolding now i do think it goes back

00:27:11.320 to that idealistic and just unrealistic worldview that they have about human nature about our foreign

00:27:22.640 enemies and just i don't know this idea that um diplomacy is the only way to accomplish peace and

00:27:32.440 just really it goes back to something i think is even more of a corrupt view that america is really

00:27:39.420 the cause of a lot of bad and corruption and evil and violence in the world and if america just withdraws

00:27:46.260 its presence from these places then they'll go back to living these happy and and peaceful lives um and

00:27:52.980 obviously that's not the case i do see a what i think is a false dichotomy playing out even just on

00:27:58.840 the conservative side um that okay it's either that we withdraw or a forever war and i think a lot of

00:28:08.860 people left and right don't have a taste for what they call a forever war but obviously we're not liking

00:28:14.960 what we're seeing with this either was there some kind of in between i mean i know we retain a

00:28:21.380 presence in other places like south korea so like what was the what could have been another possibility

00:28:27.720 in between those two polar opposites that could have maybe mitigated some of the things that we're

00:28:33.600 seeing right now that is such a great question so this is something you know i i've always thought it

00:28:39.240 was a wrong assessment of the american people to say that they're just they don't want war or they're

00:28:45.580 you know or they're tired of war that's that's a it's a it's inaccurate the american people i think

00:28:50.120 rightly want to win wars they want a conclusive war they don't want liberal projects that are open

00:28:57.980 ended with ever expanding scopes of mission with no plan to end it and so that um they're completely

00:29:06.440 right so what what i have been arguing for is that the nation building that is all of this you know

00:29:12.200 these criteria that unless the the afghan government supports a full inclusive government that gives

00:29:18.220 women full rights i mean these very liberal aspirations should never have been part of the 0.98

00:29:23.920 mission set what we should have done ali was just we went in there to to kill al-qaeda and bin laden

00:29:31.840 and his whole crew um those responsible or harboring them leading up to 9 11 and when you do that when

00:29:38.980 you determine to do that to go kill your enemy that means you have to make sure that if they're going in

00:29:43.220 other places outside the border like in pakistan you still get them and you still hold that regime

00:29:48.740 accountable we did not hold pakistan accountable okay so you can go back through you can you can look

00:29:53.680 at all the errors that we we what that we made what i argued was at this point now 2021 we keep

00:30:00.380 bagram we keep bagram to be doing counterterrorism operations and to continue to stay in the ear of the

00:30:07.520 afghan forces that were doing the the dying and the fighting on behalf of their own country and their own

00:30:12.980 people and we continue to protect our own people by ensuring that we have a counterterrorism president it

00:30:18.780 wasn't just us it was nato there nato was operating with us too that way if you had a statesman

00:30:24.760 politician that could say the american people were right this liberal internationalism idea this

00:30:29.380 unending operation of creating this this ideal in afghanistan we're done doing it we're gonna have 0.70

00:30:35.120 2 500 troops fewer than the number of people that were guarding the capitol ali um against these

00:30:40.480 supposed right-wing extremists and we're just gonna hold this base that the american people invested in

00:30:45.620 and paid for and our weapons and we're gonna kill terrorists we're gonna hold the line and we're

00:30:50.700 not gonna cede this base to now china you know which is adjacent to afghanistan and whoever else wants to

00:30:56.940 have access to all of our equipment in this base we could have done that um but there was nobody that

00:31:02.900 was able to articulate that and to and to explain to the american people the american people i think

00:31:08.260 would have you know been supportive of that um but this really has been a neglected war people have kind

00:31:14.440 of had this you know just this these two options and that's it in their mind and then again you have

00:31:20.300 leaders that rather than just doing the right thing are determined to just look at some sort of polling

00:31:26.700 which by the way speaking of polling joe biden's approval rating is just in free fall right now almost i mean

00:31:33.400 it's plummeting because of his handling of afghanistan and that's why it's always best you do the right thing 1.00

00:31:38.540 you listen to the american people but then you do the right thing it's something that this president

00:31:42.600 wasn't willing to do no well there's no courage and there's also no moral courage it seems like and

00:31:49.180 i i think that even though not everyone is a foreign policy expert no one especially i would say um

00:31:57.080 the conservative side especially middle america who is tuning into all this we know we know that we

00:32:05.460 don't like to be humiliated we don't like to lose we know that we should not be losing to the

00:32:10.700 taliban and we shouldn't be taking cues or taking orders from the taliban we know what it means to

00:32:16.860 prioritize american citizens so that's why i think that the whole message of like empathetic joe

00:32:23.880 compassionate joe is going to come along and bring normalcy to the united states it just didn't work on

00:32:30.900 a lot of people who maybe even didn't love donald trump because at least what they saw on donald trump

00:32:35.820 with some kind of strength they saw that he went and got otto warmbier they saw that he went and got

00:32:41.220 andrew brunson they saw that you know he killed soleimani or he ordered the killing of soleimani and

00:32:46.820 then posted american flag afterwards and maybe that's not the most profound understanding of foreign policy

00:32:52.880 but americans average americans can tell the difference they can tell the difference between

00:32:57.880 someone like joe biden who will not take questions who when he goes a little bit off script or when someone

00:33:03.800 asks a question that he wasn't briefed on before or that he didn't get beforehand just literally

00:33:12.580 turns his back and walks away people see the difference between those two things they're

00:33:17.940 willing to forgive a lot of faults that trump had in order to have a leader that they feel like they can

00:33:25.280 trust that okay if something goes bad for them when they're abroad they feel like trump's administration

00:33:31.100 would come rescue them and stand up for them and things like that that kind of stuff matters that

00:33:36.800 kind of stuff matters i just don't know if joe biden is going to i don't know if he's going to be able

00:33:41.420 to salvage this at all no and when you think about it too that that that preciousness of american

00:33:46.400 citizenship it really goes hand in glove with the open borders concept of of liberal democrats too if you

00:33:53.140 if you don't believe in borders and control of your own borders you you necessarily can't appreciate

00:33:58.940 the significance of of american citizenship right of who we are as a people what we've bought into

00:34:05.660 to participate um as a society and as citizens of this country building a community together if you

00:34:11.760 don't appreciate that then it makes perfect sense that there isn't this special attention to american

00:34:16.800 citizens abroad but there is that iranian that iranian american citizen who the iranians tried to

00:34:24.100 kidnap to kill recently a few weeks ago right and it was almost like the biden administration you know

00:34:29.920 it's like oh they it was the strangest muted response from the biden administration on that

00:34:34.380 that was major she is an american citizen yeah and you know americans this is the first the primary

00:34:41.880 responsibility of our elected leaders is to provide for the security of the american people

00:34:46.860 and it's just joe biden is he is out to lunch on this ready to move on to the next thing hoping that

00:34:53.680 the media is just going to let this die and then go on and give them positive coverage um i i think

00:35:00.200 that really this is sort of the emperor has no clothes we can all see what kind of leader he is

00:35:05.460 um and what he isn't and it i mean talking about crisis of confidence in your leader i mean i can i can

00:35:12.300 sense that with my family and my friends back home in the rural midwest i mean people are just feeling

00:35:18.000 totally deflated and again it's that sense of just un un feeling unnerved that that we're sort of we

00:35:25.240 have no captain on this ship yeah um not not one who cares about american citizens above all

00:35:31.660 and when people are hearing that okay not everyone coming in is going to be vetted we already know that

00:35:43.220 the border is wide open i read a very sad report the other day of just how demoralized our border

00:35:50.980 patrol agents are because they're not actually able to do their jobs um and i imagine that there are some

00:35:57.700 troops that feel the same way that they are kind of um their hands are behind their back and what

00:36:02.900 they're actually able to do they feel like they have not been empowered to actually protect the united

00:36:09.560 states that's got to be a hard feeling for them it's a hard feeling for americans when you

00:36:14.540 feel like okay well joe biden seems to have the priorities of every other country at heart except

00:36:20.200 for the united states and people really hated when donald trump said america first they said that's

00:36:26.280 bigoted that's wrong that's you know nationalistic whatever um but i would say that's you know isn't that

00:36:33.720 more compassionate than america last like don't you want a president that loves your country loves its

00:36:39.140 citizens and is going to fight for them isn't that what you want in a leader or a mayor or a governor

00:36:44.160 wherever um and so i think i mean maybe there's some blessing to see the polar opposite of putting

00:36:51.120 america first like you see the damage of of america last and i hate to see it it breaks my heart i wanted

00:36:59.340 joe biden to do a good job as president even though i didn't vote for him um but unfortunately i i'm not

00:37:06.300 sure that this is going to be recovered no and the other thing about this concept of putting your own

00:37:12.480 people first especially in the case of the united states is it is better for other countries when the

00:37:18.440 united states shores up its sovereignty acts with decisiveness has good plans understands how to

00:37:25.160 prioritize i mean you can just see now the the fallout from nato allies i mean australia the uk the

00:37:32.660 french i mean these are countries that are that are visibly upset their leaders are upset the germany

00:37:38.100 with how the united states has handled this so it you know you you want to put the united states first

00:37:43.820 if you're the american president and that is helpful for everybody else to understand what's happening

00:37:49.000 this this haphazard um confusing it doesn't even make any sense some of these decisions he's making

00:37:54.920 it's like a collapse of the west when you pull the united states out um it's a it really just you know

00:38:03.240 leaves a vacuum there for for authoritarians to step in whether it's the a taliban in afghanistan but now

00:38:09.720 you've got again china adjacent to to to afghanistan the russians of course and and the iranians

00:38:16.520 pakistan is going to you know um be in a better position now it so i mean i i get this sense

00:38:24.740 too the other point i think is important to make too that i i can feel this frustration with the

00:38:28.260 american people it really these really are red state voters who have done a lot of the volunteering

00:38:34.200 to go into afghanistan to doing the war fighting and have come back as veterans so there there's this

00:38:40.620 other dynamic that's going on where it really feels like it's middle america that has been betrayed

00:38:45.740 you know back to your point americans want to win we want to do the right thing we don't

00:38:51.140 want to look like cowards we don't want to be cowards and we don't want to have the reputation

00:38:55.340 of of just abandoning our responsibilities and and so i i you know i i just think that

00:39:02.620 and you can see with moderate democrats and even more liberal democrats are sort of don't know how

00:39:07.240 to even respond to this i don't see a lot of surrogates in the media just doing a lot of defense

00:39:11.580 of this administration except to say hey it's a big airlift it's only a big airlift in this short

00:39:17.080 amount of time because of the disaster of the decisions yeah so you know i i think that we are

00:39:23.400 going to see um you know this might be it for the biden administration this really might be it i i

00:39:28.860 don't i i certainly don't see him having a successful foreign policy agenda being carried

00:39:33.660 through for the remainder of his term yeah um people keep saying they're they're going to take

00:39:38.620 this is going to enable them to take on china i mean i don't see that at all i don't oh i don't see

00:39:43.940 that at all but i do want to i i don't i mean maybe you can explain to me that perspective but

00:39:50.720 i i want to hear you talk about a little bit more how america withdrawing from uh from afghanistan is

00:39:59.780 actually going to empower russia empower china who we already see kind of forming this very dark and 0.95

00:40:08.320 scary alliance there like what does this mean isn't there some kind of trade route also that

00:40:14.100 is now opened up between china and afghanistan what's going on there well um so the the argument

00:40:21.400 is from from those who say we have to just focus doggedly on china and afghanistan is not a priority

00:40:27.220 theater it's a disaster we had a you know etc all of the all the reasons we know why afghanistan was so 1.00

00:40:32.240 hard challenging with liberals in charge especially but they say now this is going to free up resources

00:40:37.240 um to be able to take on china the problem with that view is again i was of the mind that we

00:40:43.320 should just keep bagram keep bagram and just do counterterrorism and hold that space because it

00:40:47.500 keeps other countries from though getting through afghanistan but also prevents them from using the

00:40:54.520 rare earth minerals that are in afghanistan all of these things that the chinese are going to 1.00

00:40:59.300 want um but also having that massive sprawling air base with nato operating there adjacent to china

00:41:10.080 it's the closest land base right next to china in that region that we just gave up um so i think even

00:41:17.820 if you understand that china is the sort of existential threat to the american way of life in the united 0.94

00:41:23.240 states as we know it you still wouldn't want to give up that invaluable air sprawling air base

00:41:28.280 and all of our weapons so i made the point earlier too if you care about those countries we just gave

00:41:34.840 up billions of dollars of weapons we left in country that even if the taliban can't figure out how to 0.98

00:41:39.560 operate them there's other actors around there who do who'd be willing to to pay for them and to

00:41:44.440 operate them too and the other thing too ali you know we if we have a huge massive terrorism problem

00:41:51.540 again massive instability in the middle east but you know biden comes in tries to strike a deal with

00:41:56.820 the iranians like we know that he wants to al-qaeda by the way is being harbored by the iranians they're

00:42:01.360 there too um you you do all of these terrible policies deal you know turn over afghanistan to 0.88

00:42:07.980 the taliban deal with the iranians you're going to have massive instability in the middle east the 0.52

00:42:12.720 terrorism problem is going to be all flared up again terrorism threats here at home that does not

00:42:18.920 enable us to be freed up to look at the primary existential problem which comes from china 0.73

00:42:23.660 and then the little brother russia um and so sometimes you have to cover down on areas that

00:42:29.520 are not primary theaters so that you can spend more energy and time working on the the thing that's the

00:42:35.240 biggest threat so i i'm having a hard time with that argument people keep saying it's this is going

00:42:40.880 to be good for china but i'm i'm not it's a kind of a neat idea in theory but in the real world i just

00:42:46.700 don't good for china they're saying it's good for china as in it's good for our fight against china 1.00

00:42:52.680 is what you're saying right we actually do think that it's good for china in that they see

00:42:59.360 destabilization in that region and their access to afghanistan is good for them and is empowering to

00:43:04.960 them and certainly even just the even just the general weakness that is displayed by america any kind

00:43:15.680 of weakness demonstrated by the united states is good for china is good for our enemies and they've 1.00

00:43:21.200 already put out a statement china saying when i think they said when which was pretty stunning when

00:43:27.300 war breaks out in taiwan understand that the united states isn't going to come to your aid i mean

00:43:34.440 that's scary and they're probably right right well so that's so right when i was saying people think

00:43:41.100 that it's going to be good for us to focus on china if we get out of afghanistan but in fact it's

00:43:45.380 actually going to be good for china if we totally surrender the whole region to the talibian 1.00

00:43:49.120 no i i i knew that the chinese were going to use this as a propaganda boon which they did and you 0.90

00:43:55.980 know they said look hong kongers you who are fighting for democracy in hong kong still you who are still

00:44:00.940 you know wanting to protect your own um separate nation in taiwan look at what the americans do to

00:44:07.700 their friends and partners now of course the argument would be okay but afghanistan these this was not a

00:44:13.480 full blossom democracy like taiwan we it's not as critical for american preeminence um as taiwan is

00:44:21.260 it's really important so it's different but again you know we're not vulcans that go strictly by logic

00:44:27.020 we're people and so the deterrence relies on what the adversary believes you are willing to do and so

00:44:37.080 maybe they're wrong maybe we would come to the aid of taiwan what but we but if they think we won't

00:44:43.860 that means they could act aggressively against taiwan and then we could have a war over taiwan

00:44:50.380 in the next few years with biden president because of his demonstration of a lack of resolve and

00:44:56.340 commitment to do the right thing so i i absolutely think that the and then our allies and partners

00:45:01.680 you're already seeing you you know officials from allied partners saying we have got to start

00:45:07.200 thinking about how we can operate um as a european union and as europeans apart from the united states

00:45:14.140 you're seeing statements like that because they're everybody is spooked about how biden carried this out

00:45:20.120 so when you have allies doubting you and then you have your adversaries doubting you i mean you've got a

00:45:26.580 recipe for a lot of um bad calculations that can again weakness is provocative we're gonna you know

00:45:33.020 these actions you can actually provoke more conflict rather than have peace which is what we all want

00:45:38.180 and what we see is that it's not just bad for the united states but like you mentioned earlier it's bad

00:45:43.460 for the world the weak america is bad for the world and that just bucks against this liberal idea that

00:45:50.040 again that america has only been an imperialistic force for evil that needs to be taken down a notch

00:45:55.660 that's part of what obama demonstrated in his apology tour that he really believed that if we

00:46:01.200 just kind of put america on the same level as everyone else then everyone will just kind of be

00:46:06.320 peaceful and get along if we just appease countries like iran then everyone will finally just get along

00:46:12.580 that's not that's just not true like we're seeing really a clash of world views we're seeing something

00:46:18.940 that the biden administration will never understand i don't think which is a clash of theology like

00:46:24.280 their theological differences obviously between the taliban and what the united states believes

00:46:30.800 which is why i mean they don't understand that and that's evidenced by the fact that they're saying

00:46:35.960 ridiculous things like oh you know they're gonna we're telling that we had sent them a strongly worded

00:46:42.000 letter i think the un ambassador said um that we're sending them a strongly worded letter that 0.91

00:46:47.280 they better recognize the rights of women and girls the taliban they don't believe in rights like 1.00

00:46:53.760 that is a judeo-christian ethic upon which the west and specifically the united states was founded but

00:47:00.340 liberal ideology really has a hard time i think like seeing the difference in worldviews the difference

00:47:06.920 in theology and that like the answer to these things has to be strength and that's sometimes the

00:47:11.720 only language that they understand that people like that our enemies understand anyway do you agree with

00:47:18.120 that no i think that's right and then i also saw this quote from an advisor to one of our military

00:47:24.680 commanders who he said you know at no at at no point over the last several years paraphrasing here

00:47:31.040 did we think that religion was actually motivating the taliban okay which i think how how is that possible

00:47:40.200 how is it how is it possible that you didn't think that they were motivated by the thing they say

00:47:45.780 they're motivated by which is an incredibly totalitarian austere interpretation of sharia law

00:47:52.840 i mean this is they they just sort of thought that look you know we'll just get them busy with jobs and

00:47:58.500 we'll make some schools we'll teach them about the lgbtq agenda and and everybody will have will move

00:48:04.400 towards a more inclusive society i mean it's it almost it it makes you crazy the more you think

00:48:10.480 about it i mean i remember you i used to work on the judiciary committee and in the congress and i remember

00:48:16.460 the debates over whether or not we should mirandize terrorists we caught on the battlefield

00:48:22.620 or what you know how do we treat do we give inmates in guantanamo bay the same rights as we would

00:48:29.480 criminal defendants um here in the united states i mean those are the kinds of you know conversations

00:48:35.880 that americans were having and it goes back to the point you just made about a clash of of world views

00:48:41.660 about what it is that we're doing in the value of american citizenship and what a country is versus

00:48:48.640 what is this sort of just i don't even know what the alternative is it's just this universalist idea

00:48:54.580 based on liberal um values that they think they can just sort of impose on everybody else and that

00:49:01.540 we're you know that there are really no countries and the same sort of constitutional privileges that

00:49:06.340 we have here are going to apply to terrorists abroad yes um so it it really is a clash of fundamental

00:49:12.800 assumptions um that that liberals hold i think which makes them so incredibly dangerous when it comes

00:49:18.440 to u.s national security and foreign policy yeah and there really wasn't even a debate leading up to

00:49:23.180 the presidential election on these issues yeah it's like they think that like john lennon's imagine

00:49:28.600 could be real life like if we had no religion or we didn't acknowledge people's religion if we

00:49:33.500 just didn't have any countries that everyone would just get along what we're seeing what we've always

00:49:38.600 seen history tells us this that that goes against human nature that nations are good the existence of

00:49:45.060 nations and borders were actually god's idea um that they're good for human beings that they

00:49:50.840 actually can lead to safety and to security and that it is right and i would say righteous for um

00:49:59.420 the elected officials that we have put in charge to represent us and to protect our country to

00:50:07.000 prioritize those borders and to prioritize that safety and security and citizenship so you're so right

00:50:13.060 it goes back to those very fundamental questions of not just right and wrong and good and evil and what

00:50:19.460 that looks like but also what is a country what does it mean to be an american citizen do any of those

00:50:25.720 things matter um of course i think that they do i'm not so sure that this administration does um

00:50:33.300 just to close this out like where do you think that we where do you think that we go from here like

00:50:39.920 do you think that the american citizens and the civs there will finally be rescued or do you think we just

00:50:46.720 see disaster after disaster and we truly do like you said at the beginning into this hostage situation

00:50:52.100 and if so how long how long until the media stop talking about that and we just forget it well i do

00:51:00.380 i mean like i said i think we're barreling towards a massive hostage situation we still have several

00:51:05.740 thousand americans in country who want out um of afghanistan so no matter what we we will have a 0.98

00:51:12.880 hostage situation um come august 31st i my my hope is you're still going to have sort of private

00:51:19.180 contractors being hired to to try to do these continue these rescue operations for christian

00:51:24.360 missionaries and those who are still stuck far outside and far away from kabul airport um so my my

00:51:30.840 hope is we'll still continue over time sort of like an underground railroad get get these people out

00:51:35.880 yeah um and that they can just hide and just continue to pray for their safety in the meantime in the

00:51:41.020 meantime until they can be um fully rescued but i don't think we avoid the hostage situation and i'm

00:51:47.580 really concerned ali just getting towards that september 11th anniversary about um the potential of of

00:51:55.640 of really terrible bad things happening for the taliban rubbing it in our faces that that they've kicked out 0.98

00:52:01.440 the west and that they had all on their side all along um and that that that's still going to come

00:52:07.080 um and and i and i just pray that our leaders can come up with something to say to all of the troops

00:52:13.660 who are gave limbs and time and their family members some of them gave the the ultimate price

00:52:19.320 um to say something to the to family um that can be a sell but i you know i don't know i think this is

00:52:26.280 one of the darkest times that i've ever seen since i've been doing national security policy

00:52:30.320 and um it's just not a whole lot of silver lining to it

00:52:34.020 do you think and this is a terrible question to end on but i think it's probably the one that's

00:52:44.180 pressing into people's minds does this increase the the terror threat at home is that what you're

00:52:49.700 kind of alluding to when you talk about the taliban rubbing it in our faces on 9-11 i mean i think that

00:52:57.580 i do think that the terrorism threat um was going up you already had general milley saying that the

00:53:04.320 terrorism threat is going to go up that was always the risk that that was that was going to happen as

00:53:08.780 we got you know um withdrew from afghanistan but because of the way this went through um and we

00:53:15.100 don't have a plan for conducting counterterrorism operations all those afghans in country too that we

00:53:19.920 were working with that we abandoned those were the individuals that we were hoping to continue to

00:53:24.940 to be our eyes and ears to provide intelligence and they're all gone it's a total collapse so we

00:53:31.420 have nothing in country right now but what i'm concerned is that we're going to see um terrible

00:53:36.820 things happening on camera um of american hostages or civs that are still in afghanistan on september 11th

00:53:43.440 i certainly pray that that's not the case but um this is the taliban these are jihadists these are

00:53:50.080 militant jihadists and you know it doesn't matter how much biden officials try to talk us into how

00:53:55.620 they're in this existential crisis and they have to decide what role they want to play in the

00:53:59.880 international community we know what role they want to play they've been playing it for decades

00:54:04.040 um they are they are jihadists and they they wanted to establish this this muslim um society governed by 0.99

00:54:11.860 an austere you know really harsh understanding of sharia law and they got it and so we're going to see

00:54:18.620 their true colors i think um unless they make the calculation that they're still going to try this

00:54:22.940 ruse and try to get more concessions and things um but but apart from that i mean i'm i'm sort of

00:54:29.620 bracing for the worst case scenario and and praying that that's not what happens yeah and i want americans

00:54:35.600 to be cognizant too that i've seen a couple statements coming from the taliban one about oh well facebook in

00:54:42.660 america it doesn't respect free speech either and then i saw another statement today that apparently the

00:54:48.280 taliban says that they're going to fight climate change what i want to encourage people who on

00:54:54.600 either side of the aisle who are listening or watching don't take the bait that's bait they are

00:55:00.500 trying to all of our enemies so badly and they've been successful i think in a lot of ways want to

00:55:06.280 divide the united states obviously they don't care about the climate obviously they don't care about

00:55:12.720 free speech it is a way to drive a wedge between both sides both sides of american citizens china

00:55:20.860 does it i think russia does it with their own kind of misinformation of course china even put out a

00:55:27.600 video the other day like touting critical race theory and anti-racism it's bait they all they want

00:55:33.560 that to further weaken the united states a weak united states is bad for the world it's good for them and

00:55:39.880 they know that um so one thing we can do even though i think americans are powerless in some

00:55:46.080 ways when it comes to all of this is one to pay attention but also don't take the bait of our

00:55:51.660 enemies um and trying to say oh well you know at least they have a point about whatever xyz issue

00:55:59.220 they are no that's true point about the other thing that they're doing not only they try to divide us

00:56:05.220 they're mocking us you know it's always i'm always amazed at how how well the enemy they pay attention

00:56:12.560 to the united states and they they think they think our ideas of equality under the law due process

00:56:19.780 free speech women being um treated with dignity and respect and provided the same kinds of um equality

00:56:27.540 under the law as men they think all of that is ridiculous yeah and they mock us so they're mocking us

00:56:33.720 and the other thing that the other reason they do it it works with liberals who have these assumptions

00:56:39.580 that they are just like us yeah and that they they they agree with us and so they i mean you even

00:56:46.740 again because you said you know jen saki said that they're they're gonna see what kind of they have to

00:56:51.600 make a decision about what role they want to play joe biden said that you know the taliban has been

00:56:56.620 providing safe passage that is so it's just not what's happening it's just not true it's delusional

00:57:04.600 it's like he's just imagining because it's not because we're not seeing beheadings on camera right

00:57:09.760 now they think things are going at least you know better than better than they thought they might over

00:57:14.420 the last couple of days um and and so it it's just this i mean you're going to see the taliban

00:57:21.200 being legitimized by the un here at some point you already saw some talks like maybe it's possible

00:57:25.960 that they could be on some sort of panel for for women's rights and improve right and why wouldn't 0.99

00:57:30.800 they if saudi arabia is or has been i mean the un human rights council is one of the most farcical

00:57:38.220 institutions in the universe's existence i mean they put people like that um on the human rights

00:57:45.980 council it's crazy it's crazy and it also just shows you too just like the the rot of these

00:57:52.640 international institutions which is why you know i was actually in favor um of all of the withdrawing

00:57:59.440 that the trump administration did out of the who out of the human rights council out of the because

00:58:04.800 these you know this argument that that it's better if we have them why they're totally corrupted they

00:58:10.360 no longer serve american interests their understanding of right and wrong is distorted

00:58:15.560 and backwards um and and so at some point you know i'm for i'm for conservative internationalism

00:58:22.400 which is you can reach out for partners we're gonna need partners and allies as we try to deter

00:58:27.480 china for sure and russia and iran all these other um adversaries you need partners and allies but you need

00:58:35.180 to have um alliances and partnerships and these these institutions that are grounded in reality

00:58:43.000 and that serve the purpose of which they are intended they're not thoroughly corrupted and that

00:58:47.780 and that served american interests and so it's good to withdraw from thoroughly corrupted deals and

00:58:53.880 agreements and international organizations and to redo them if we need to or just to can it if we if

00:58:59.480 we don't um and so that's the other thing too is it's really again you know i really feel like this

00:59:04.660 is like the afghanistan issue the last week is like a microcosm of everything that's wrong 0.79

00:59:09.200 with liberal foreign policy it's unfolding before our eyes and i hope that the you know american people

00:59:15.760 watching this kind of find a new interest a reinvigorated interest in understanding national

00:59:21.360 security politics and press their elected leaders on these issues um because the instincts of most

00:59:28.020 americans are right about right and wrong and and and the liberals and foreign policy are so

00:59:34.900 so disconnected from where most americans are and they're very naive and idealistic view of how the

00:59:42.440 united states should act in the world yep and i actually think it's a microcosm of liberal policy

00:59:48.380 in general and i always say this on this show that progressivism i don't want to say progressives

00:59:55.860 because i don't think it's true of every individual who identifies as a progressive but progressivism as an

01:00:01.020 ideology this post-modernism that it takes on that there is no absolute objective truth or morality

01:00:07.260 that kind of with different cultures there's different kinds of rights and wrongs and who

01:00:11.560 are we to judge because basically what america has done is morally equivalent to the taliban i mean

01:00:16.660 you've seen some crazy people on twitter say things like that over the past week that kind of crazy

01:00:22.280 post-modernism moral relativism that is wrapped up in progressivism it gets human nature wrong it gets

01:00:28.800 sin nature wrong it misunderstands i think how the world works and so when it plays out in things like

01:00:35.340 defund the police or some kind of the radical forms of bail reform that we've seen or in foreign policy

01:00:41.640 we see that the truth about human nature comes crashing down in a very chaotic way human nature is like

01:00:48.600 a beach ball you can try to push it underwater it's gonna keep popping back up um and like you said i hope

01:00:55.560 this reinvigorates people into not just understanding what's going on in foreign policy but also to take

01:01:01.080 a second look about our assumptions our assumptions about the world how the world works that there is a

01:01:07.240 right and wrong you can't look at the pictures of our military or servicemen and women who are nurturing

01:01:13.140 and holding these sweet babies um over in afghanistan i know that's not technically their job but that's what

01:01:20.620 they're doing because they're compassionate human beings and then compare that to what we're seeing

01:01:25.540 the videos coming out of the taliban beating people and beating women and say that there is any moral 0.92

01:01:31.400 equivalence or that there is no objective morality there is no right and wrong there is and allow this

01:01:37.780 to open our eyes to that um and start thinking a little bit it's caused me to think a little bit harder

01:01:43.280 about what i think about foreign policy something that i never really thought affected me all that much

01:01:47.640 um now i'm realizing it very much does so i hope that's the case like you said for everyone else as

01:01:52.480 well yeah i i hope so and back to that image of the you know the of the soldier holding um i saw one of

01:02:01.620 him just holding a little baby girl and you know he he understands the preciousness of that little girl's

01:02:08.820 life um and the mother knew that if she could just get that her little daughter into his arms that he 1.00

01:02:14.980 would be safe and so she can even see it intuitively about um you know what's right and it just breaks

01:02:21.680 your heart it really does but yeah um just you know just continue to to watch the situation and

01:02:29.780 hold these i just i'm so i'm i'm very encouraged if there is one silver lining i can find here

01:02:35.680 it is that the media has been all over this yeah and really pulling the curtain back and and so i am so

01:02:42.940 thankful for that and i hope they just doggedly stay on it um and continue to cover all the various

01:02:48.920 ways and don't let jen saki off the hook every single time joe biden wants to talk about the next

01:02:55.240 lockdown for coronavirus or masking children that's where he wants to pivot for sure he wants to pivot

01:03:01.800 there but the question should stay on i don't want to pass a single more bill you know one more bill

01:03:07.040 until all the americans are out of afghanistan you know i'm going to drill you on that i you know we

01:03:11.880 shouldn't be doing anything else until our people are back and then you know and then pressing them

01:03:17.280 if they try to turn their eyes um off of the crisis that we're going to continue to to witness unfolding

01:03:25.080 in afghanistan yep absolutely i i if we had the media um this honest on everything i truly think like

01:03:35.120 that wouldn't solve all of our problems but i think it would unite the country i think that it

01:03:41.120 would um wipe away any delusion that anyone has that the state can save you that any politician is

01:03:49.820 your savior i think that it would solve a lot of problems if we saw this kind of honesty coming from

01:03:55.240 the media on every you know on every crisis that happens for politicians are you know authored by

01:04:02.400 politicians on different sides of the aisle um all right thank you so much thank you for taking the

01:04:06.880 time to come and talk to us and to break this all down for us i really really appreciate it

01:04:10.700 thank you so much ali appreciate it

Relatable with Allie Beth Stuckey - August 25, 2021

Ep 477 ｜ Why Biden Is Turning His Back on Americans in Afghanistan ｜ Guest： Rebeccah Heinrichs

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