Relatable with Allie Beth Stuckey - Ep 483 ｜ Refuting Propaganda on Ivermectin, Abortion & Afghanistan

00:00:00.000 Hey guys, welcome to Relatable. Happy Tuesday. Hope everyone had a wonderful Labor Day weekend.

00:00:16.040 Today I'm talking to my friend Liz Wheeler. We are going to spend the first part of our

00:00:21.780 conversation talking about some of the propaganda that you have seen coming out about the Texas

00:00:26.640 abortion law. And just a note on that, I am actually talking to someone today, just a private

00:00:33.580 conversation with someone who kind of helped draft the Texas law. And I'm going to ask them

00:00:40.700 some questions because I just want to say, like, I have some questions too about how this Texas law

00:00:46.540 is going to work. There are a few things that have kind of troubled me that I've seen come out about

00:00:51.960 it. And so I just want to get some clarity. And so later this week, hopefully I'll have the opportunity

00:00:55.980 to share some clarifying answers that I get about this law. But Liz and I are going to talk about

00:01:05.220 some of the abortion arguments that you're hearing and some of the false narratives that you're hearing

00:01:11.500 surrounding not just the Texas law, but abortion in general. We are also going to talk about Biden's

00:01:18.500 response, authoritarian response to the law and his mishandling of Afghanistan, the latest on that and

00:01:27.160 the hostage situation that's going on there with American citizens, unfortunately. And then we're

00:01:33.020 going to briefly talk about some of the propaganda, again, that has come out about Ivermectin, this crazy

00:01:40.380 Rolling Stone story that ended up being totally debunked and what that means about our trust and our

00:01:45.960 public health institutions and how that has deteriorated so much. So a wide ranging conversation.

00:01:53.540 She's awesome. If you don't know her, you're going to love her. Without further ado, here is Liz Wheeler.

00:02:03.580 Liz, thank you so much for joining us. I think everyone listening and watching knows exactly who you are.

00:02:09.540 But just in case, can you tell everyone who you are and what you're up to?

00:02:14.620 Of course. First of all, Ali, thank you so much for having me today. I feel like you and I have

00:02:18.380 been trying to make this happen for at least a year. But one of us was having a baby if the other

00:02:23.260 one was not. We didn't get to do this until now. I host the Liz Wheeler Show podcast, the brand new

00:02:29.320 video podcast that we just launched in May, which is really exciting. Before that, I hosted a top rated

00:02:35.020 cable news show on One America News for the past five years. I've written a book on how everyday

00:02:39.900 Americans, how we all can debate liberals in, you know, whether it's school, home, family, just in your

00:02:45.860 life, debate tactics for getting past some of their talking points. I'm a Christian, a practicing

00:02:50.940 Catholic, conservative activist. And, you know, you and I have known each other for a long time.

00:02:55.960 We've kind of grown up, I think, in this world together. And like I said, it's really great to be able to sit

00:02:59.900 down and talk to you. You are awesome. You set such a wonderful example for conservatives, especially

00:03:06.160 for conservative women. You are so clear in everything that you say. You're concise in

00:03:11.780 everything that you say while also remaining tactful and eloquent. And that balance is very

00:03:19.580 difficult to strike. And you do it really well. And I'm so glad that we were finally able to get

00:03:25.760 together. I was excited to have you on today because I have so much to talk about. And I

00:03:30.400 thought, OK, who's someone that I can talk to that can talk about anything that I know that if I launch

00:03:34.980 any question at them, they'll be able to answer it well. And you are that person. And the first thing

00:03:39.740 that I want to talk about, because it's something that you and I are so passionate about, is this

00:03:44.040 Texas abortion law. Last week on the show, we went through what the law actually says, what it does,

00:03:50.640 what it accomplishes and what it doesn't do. And we went through some of, you know, the abortion

00:03:54.380 arguments, as you've done as well on your show and on social media. And the propaganda that we have

00:04:04.240 seen over the past few days, I mean, the way that people have twisted what the law actually says,

00:04:11.340 the way that they have tried to do all kinds of mental and moral gymnastics to try to justify the

00:04:16.520 slaughtering of unborn babies. I don't think that I've seen them this passionate, pro-choicers,

00:04:21.820 this passionate about something. I don't know, maybe since Kavanaugh. What's your take on everything

00:04:26.520 that you've seen over the past few days? Oh, yeah. I was going to make the same comparison.

00:04:30.460 I'm not sure that we've seen the pro-abortion activists this rabid since Kavanaugh, since they

00:04:35.980 were mailing coat hangers to Senator Susan Collins's house after she chose to vote in favor of his

00:04:41.640 nomination. I mean, they're desperate. They're desperate and they should be desperate because

00:04:46.160 we are past culturally, we are past this point in our culture where abortion should be acceptable.

00:04:51.900 Not that it ever should have been to begin with, but we're past the point that all of the original

00:04:57.020 pro-abortion arguments could ever hold water. We're past the point where there's a question of

00:05:02.400 scientifically when a life begins. We're past the point of people being confused about whether it's

00:05:07.820 about the woman's body, whether it's about the baby's body. We're past the point of what it means to

00:05:12.060 be pro-life, whether you have to support essentially socialist policy agenda items in order to call

00:05:18.940 yourself pro-life. We're past the point where we as a nation should accept the fact that every year

00:05:24.220 almost a million unborn babies are slaughtered just for the mother's convenience. Again, all of the

00:05:28.980 talking points have been debunked. We know it's not the majority of abortions. The vast, vast majority

00:05:33.720 of abortions are not about rape. They're not about incest. They're not about life of the mother.

00:05:37.500 Even late-term abortions are not about fetal abnormalities. If you do the studies, if you

00:05:43.060 look at the polling, if you look at the surveys, it's all about convenience. Now, that being said,

00:05:48.100 we should be tremendously compassionate, of course, to women that find themselves in this position,

00:05:51.900 whether they didn't intend to be pregnant, whether they're worried about how to make it work,

00:05:55.360 whether they're being pressured by a partner to abort the baby. We should be compassionate. And as

00:06:00.140 pro-lifers, we should support these women and help them and give them the resources and the love and

00:06:04.300 the care that they need. But none of that takes away from the heart of the matter is what I like

00:06:09.300 to call it unironically, given what the pro-abortion activists are talking about this week. But we should

00:06:16.700 be compassionate. But it doesn't take away from the humanity of that child. And the heart of the

00:06:20.960 matter is that unborn child scientifically, morally, ethically, and yes, legally is an independent

00:06:28.300 individual person with DNA separate from the mother and therefore should be protected under the law,

00:06:33.660 just like you, Allie, or like me. Yep. The Guttmacher Institute is the research arm of

00:06:39.060 Planned Parenthood. And according to their own reporting, fewer than less than 1% of abortions

00:06:46.020 are due to rape or incest. And that's not to discount those cases. Obviously, we think those

00:06:52.280 cases are horrendous. We think rape is horrendous. We think it should be punished to the fullest extent

00:06:57.180 of the law. But the point that pro-lifers make is that, okay, but we also can't discount the life

00:07:03.360 of the child, that the circumstances surrounding a person's conception doesn't make them any less of a

00:07:09.380 person. And therefore, it doesn't make them any less deserving of human rights. And I'm sure you get a

00:07:14.920 ton of questions about, okay, how would you respond to this post? How would you respond to this talking

00:07:20.620 point in favor of abortion? And I always say, look, just always bring it back to the life that is in

00:07:28.800 the woman's womb. Because every talking point is pretty much a red herring when it comes to abortion.

00:07:34.300 They bring up, like you said, all of these different policies that you apparently have to support in

00:07:38.420 order to call yourself pro-life. They bring up all of what they see as hypocrisies of the pro-life

00:07:45.740 movement in order to try to defend their position. But I haven't seen anyone on the pro-abortion side

00:07:52.320 really try to wrestle with the core argument that pro-lifers make that, look, this is a human

00:07:58.240 being. In what other circumstance is it justified to kill a human being because they're not wanted or

00:08:05.480 because they might be poor or because they might have a hard life? In what other circumstances is that

00:08:09.960 justified and why is it justified for this life just because it's in the womb? What else do you

00:08:17.320 have to say to people who are struggling to kind of make sense of the propaganda and the pro-abortion

00:08:21.980 arguments? What advice do you have? Sure. Well, there's a couple of things. So the point that

00:08:26.320 you're making essentially can be condensed into just asking the question, what is the limiting principle

00:08:31.120 on the arguments being made by the pro-abortion left? What would limit this to just life in the womb,

00:08:36.400 just these unborn babies growing inside their mothers? If we're allowing society, if we're

00:08:42.460 allowing abortionists to end the life, brutally end the life of these babies based on convenience,

00:08:47.860 based on the idea that they're dependent, based on the idea that they're quote unquote not sentient,

00:08:52.140 then what is the limiting principle? Why wouldn't that apply to a three-month-old outside of the

00:08:56.660 mother who is reliant on the mother's body, who is reliant on the mother's care, who is not able to

00:09:01.820 take care of themselves, et cetera, et cetera? Why wouldn't this apply to people in comas who are

00:09:06.400 quote unquote not sentient? There's no limiting principle on the abortion argument, which is

00:09:11.180 kind of what we saw last year, last year or the year before, I forget which one, from Virginia

00:09:15.940 Governor Ralph Northam when he was essentially arguing about abortion after birth, which is

00:09:22.140 infanticide. I mean, we see the extreme of these arguments because it's really not the extreme of

00:09:26.260 the arguments. It's just the logical conclusion of the arguments that abortionists are making.

00:09:30.120 And I talked about this exact thing on an episode of my show from today because Joy Reid over at MSNBC

00:09:37.160 did a monologue late last week where she tries to redefine the term pro-life and say,

00:09:42.800 you can't call yourself pro-life. Republicans can't call themselves pro-life unless... And then she gives

00:09:47.920 all these caveats to whether or not you can be pro-life. And so I go through them on my show one by one and

00:09:52.600 say, well, that's obviously not true because everything else notwithstanding, you still have to ask yourself two

00:09:58.640 questions. When does life begin? And if life begins at conception, what right do we have to end that

00:10:05.000 life? If you can get past those two questions and still make your case for abortion, okay, try to make

00:10:10.780 it for me. I'd love to hear it because you're going to make an argument that maybe I've not heard because

00:10:14.240 no abortion advocate will actually entertain that question. The other thing, Ali, and this is a really

00:10:19.920 useful tool, I think, for people listening to this or just conversations with your friends, whether you're in

00:10:24.000 high school or college, at your Bible study, wherever you are in a political group, is to actually ask the

00:10:30.400 what-is-it-ness of abortion. So when we're talking about abortion, we're not talking about POC, which is

00:10:37.040 what abortionists call the products of conception. We're not talking about a, quote, pregnancy, because

00:10:42.060 of pregnancy, you have to ask what is it. We're talking about the termination, meaning the death, the

00:10:48.480 deliberate killing of an unborn child. And this is what live action, for example, does really well, is they make

00:10:53.800 those animated videos that show the tactics, the tools, what actually the procedure of abortion is,

00:10:59.660 and that changes people's mind. Because when they understand that life begins at conception,

00:11:03.100 and that an abortion, through either chemical, basically burning the baby, starving the baby,

00:11:07.580 suffocating the baby, or physically pulling the baby apart, as horrendous as this all sounds,

00:11:12.200 when they realize what it is, then people's minds change. And so those are the two tactics I use when

00:11:17.180 I'm talking either about abortion or to someone who supports abortion. And it really does give people

00:11:22.020 pause when they understand the humanity and then what we're doing deliberately to end that humanity.

00:11:28.200 Yep. I asked on Instagram people to tell me how they became pro-life if they once considered

00:11:35.600 themselves pro-choice or pro-abortion. And just a note on that term, pro-abortion, a lot of people

00:11:41.220 like to say, well, it's not the same thing. I'm pro-choice. I'm not pro-abortion. No one's pro-abortion.

00:11:48.080 First of all, that's certainly not true that no one is pro-abortion. There are organizations,

00:11:52.800 one example is Shout Your Abortion, that is very pro-abortion. People are becoming more

00:11:57.860 unabashed about that. And when I testified before Congress on pro-life legislation under the Trump

00:12:04.800 administration, I quoted from a New York Magazine article that actually argued that abortion is a

00:12:11.300 moral good. The dismembering of babies is a moral good. And so, yes, people are pro-abortion. And by the

00:12:17.920 way, pro-choice and pro-abortion, they still end up with the same consequences. And so that's why

00:12:23.140 really those terms can sometimes be interchangeable. But I asked people on Instagram, what made you

00:12:30.100 pro-life? What made you anti-abortion? And the two most common answers, and it was usually a mixture

00:12:36.800 of them, number one was I became a Christian or I thought I was a Christian and then I realized I

00:12:42.400 wasn't really a Christian because I started reading my Bible and praying or I switched churches and I just

00:12:46.900 realized, oh, what I was doing wasn't really Christianity. It was some form of spiritualism

00:12:52.380 that didn't align with the Bible at all. And Jesus changed my heart. And it was undeniable to me that

00:12:57.740 this was a human. And then number two was what you said, like seeing what abortion actually is and

00:13:04.560 thinking through it. So that means that really the big reasons why people typically are pro-abortion

00:13:10.720 is because of some kind of, it's a spiritual matter. It's a heart matter for a lot of people.

00:13:16.400 And also the second thing, and I think this is a huge one, is that people really just have not

00:13:22.060 thought about it. They just haven't thought about it. They don't know what abortion is.

00:13:26.260 Someone told me that they ended up looking up live actions videos to try to equip themselves as a pro-choicer

00:13:32.500 so they can really arm themselves and know what they're defending. And then they ended up just

00:13:37.600 totally breaking down and realizing, wow, I can't believe that I once defended this.

00:13:44.280 And it's amazing, isn't it? And this is, I think, something that you and I have experienced,

00:13:49.720 Allie, as Christians who are outspoken Christians, practicing Christians in the public eye, even in

00:13:55.320 politics. It's not always popular to be so, but it is easy because all you have to do is open the Bible

00:14:00.740 to know that life begins at conception, that we're fearfully and wonderfully made, that we're all made in

00:14:05.080 the image of God, that our bodies are temples of the Holy Spirit. I mean, you can go on and on and on

00:14:09.280 about how clear it is that God intends us not to end the lives of unborn babies in our wombs.

00:14:16.340 But what's really interesting as Christians, and this is not all policy, but this is like the

00:14:20.840 fundamental moral policies from government, is they don't contradict biblical teaching. And so if

00:14:27.700 you're in a situation as a Christian where your political view is somehow contradictory of the Bible,

00:14:32.780 you should open your Bible, you should go to church, you should listen to your spiritual director

00:14:36.960 because you're getting it wrong if there's a policy that is absolutely contradictory. The secular

00:14:43.460 argument in favor of just what we would call ethics, secular ethics, is almost always, I can't actually

00:14:50.260 think of an exception in line with biblical morality because that's the basis of our society, right?

00:14:55.920 Secularists pretend that we've just created this system of ethics ourselves, but no, it's not. I mean,

00:15:00.940 all of our laws from laws against rape, laws against burglary, laws against murder, laws against,

00:15:07.140 you know, every moral issue is based in biblical ethics, is based in the gospel, is based on what

00:15:14.940 God told us is the way to order our lives and treat our fellow men as brothers and sisters in Christ.

00:15:20.220 And so it's easy for you and me to say, well, of course, God says it's a person from the moment

00:15:25.220 of conception that he knew us before we were formed in our mother's womb. And it's just great that

00:15:29.560 it's also in line with science and it's also in line with secular ethics. But I don't know,

00:15:34.140 it's sometimes people are afraid, I think, to talk about the Christian aspect, but it's important

00:15:37.620 to do that too. Well, secularists certainly try to come up with in, you know, a code of ethics that

00:15:49.740 they say is just grounded in humanism. But you actually find that many times people who call

00:15:55.700 themselves humanists are very contradictory in their set of ethics because they don't have this

00:16:00.920 kind of biblical foundation. And so they might say that they are for the vulnerable, for the

00:16:05.620 marginalized, but they might also consider themselves pro-abortion or pro-choice. And that

00:16:10.920 just goes to show when you don't know where this moral law comes from that we all ascribe to,

00:16:17.940 whether we say so or not, when you don't know the moral lawgiver, it's very easy for your worldview

00:16:23.080 to break down. And just adding to what you said about kind of the Christian ethic, the biblical

00:16:30.140 view being the basis of our laws, that doesn't mean that we think that we are dictated by all of

00:16:36.360 the laws that ancient Israel was dictated by because we are not modern day Israel in America.

00:16:41.760 But you're talking about, as I've talked about many times, the basic moral law of do not murder,

00:16:49.060 do not steal. These things were the foundation of American law. The idea that we are all made

00:16:57.020 equal by a creator that has endowed us with certain unalienable rights. The idea that property

00:17:02.660 is something that we should have a right to own. This is in the Judeo-Christian ethic. That's where

00:17:09.640 that comes from. That doesn't mean we apply every law of Israel to the law today. We don't live in a

00:17:16.300 theocracy. Neither of us are advocating to live in a theocracy. And that's one point that people make

00:17:21.540 when it comes to abortion, that fine, you can be against abortion. But look, you can't impose that

00:17:27.760 on me just because you're a Christian. Well, I mean, like you said, Liz, okay, well, the laws against

00:17:36.380 theft, the laws against murder are also based in the same Christian ethic that you say should not have,

00:17:43.020 you know, shouldn't, shouldn't have any place in our laws whatsoever. And I want to say one thing

00:17:48.860 that I want to get you to respond to. And you can respond to what I just said, too, if you're

00:17:53.460 interested in that. But speaking of religion, the temple of Satan in Texas are the ones apparently

00:17:59.220 that are, you know, on the front lines against this Texas law effectively banning abortions after

00:18:07.480 six weeks. And they're saying, you know what, we're going to include abortion up to 24 weeks

00:18:14.160 under our, it's our religious freedom as the temple of Satan. Like this is one of the religious

00:18:20.100 practices that we do child sacrifice up to 24 weeks is what they're saying. And so they're going to fight

00:18:26.580 getting around the abortion law that way. And I just had to say, like, if you as a Christian find

00:18:31.180 yourself on the side of this, of the, uh, temple of Satan, then maybe, I don't know, maybe you're,

00:18:37.920 you're on the wrong side. Yeah. I mean, I think it's pretty telling that the temple of Satan is

00:18:42.020 taking the side of the pro abortion activists here. I mean, they are on the same side of this.

00:18:45.940 So there's, there's two things to say. So abortion is child sacrifice because you're essentially trading

00:18:50.320 a soul for material, material success, if you will, or material items, you're trading it for

00:18:55.980 convenience. You're trading it for flexibility. You're trading it for, you know, the ability to live

00:18:59.800 your life the way that unencumbered, I should say, because it's not even a positive unencumbered by

00:19:04.180 the responsibilities of a child after you have partaken in the responsibilities or of the

00:19:09.400 privileges of adulthood, I should say. So obviously abortion is child sacrifice. You are trading that

00:19:14.400 soul for, um, for materialism in a sense. So we all, we also have a legal tradition in our country.

00:19:20.240 I don't want to get bogged down in nitty gritty details, but we have a religious tradition in our

00:19:24.180 country that no, you, you of course have a right. It's codified in our first amendment to

00:19:29.140 exercise your religion the way you see fit, but it isn't without limits. I mean, I, if I,

00:19:33.600 and this is obviously hypothetical, but if, if my religion said that I needed to, uh, sacrifice an

00:19:38.440 adult human being or murder a human being once a year, you know, at, at the temple of whatever,

00:19:43.200 the flying spaghetti monster, I don't have a right to do that just because it's my religion.

00:19:46.920 Because, and the reason for that, this is, this is very, this is very important. The reason for that

00:19:51.080 is because it violates somebody else's fundamental God-given human right to life. Right? So

00:19:58.700 that, that's, that's true for any time that you're practicing your religion. You of course

00:20:01.940 have a right to practice your religion, even in the public sphere, not even just in your house

00:20:05.180 of worship or in your home, up to the point that it violates someone else's constitutionally

00:20:09.980 protected, meaning God-given inherent human right. So the temple of Satan, as always is very,

00:20:15.920 very wrong and easy to debunk and easy to call out on every level, level, morally, legally,

00:20:21.680 ethically, um, with the gospel. And so that's ridiculous. The other thing, just going back to the,

00:20:27.080 you're mentioning of a theocracy. Of course, I don't support a theocracy. And here's why. I mean,

00:20:31.860 the reason that I don't support a theocracy is because everyone has a right to make choices.

00:20:35.860 And when I say everyone has a right to make choices, I'm not talking about abortion. I'm

00:20:39.180 talking about choices about their own salvation, because this is a choice that God gave us.

00:20:43.480 He gave us the ability to choose him or to choose Satan, to choose to do the right thing or to

00:20:48.420 choose to reject him. And that's the fundamental, that's a fundamental of the gospel that we are not

00:20:53.020 animals. We are not just instinctually going to follow him, that we have to make that choice at

00:20:57.520 what it's, what makes love, what love is. It's what makes our love for Christ, what it is,

00:21:02.720 what makes Christ's love for us, what it is. And so in our society, uh, even politically outside

00:21:08.220 of religion, we have that same choice. We can choose to do the right thing. We can choose to

00:21:12.760 do the wrong thing. There are many wrong things that are permissible under the law. You can be unfaithful

00:21:16.820 to your spouse. It's morally wrong. It's probably going to lead to the breakdown of your marriage,

00:21:20.240 but you have a right to do that. That's not against the law. I know there's nitty gritty

00:21:24.740 laws some places, but in general, that's not against the law to do that, but it is morally,

00:21:29.560 it is morally wrong. That only, um, the limit here, and this is what I always say on my show,

00:21:35.040 the limiting principle is when your actions violate the constitutionally protected rights

00:21:40.120 of somebody else. And so that's why the so-called choice of a woman to have an abortion is not about

00:21:46.760 her own body. It's not about her right to make bad decisions because it infringes and

00:21:51.320 violates the most important right of that separate unborn child in her womb, that child's right to

00:21:57.280 life. Yep. And I'm against theocracy for, I mean, I think we probably land, um, I mean,

00:22:04.340 we obviously land in the same place ultimately that we are not for theocracy, obviously, like we're not

00:22:09.280 even really debating that. And all the people who say, Oh, Christian conservatives are just like

00:22:14.220 Joy Reid, like you said, um, or for some, you know, like Christian nationalist theocracy.

00:22:21.540 No, that's absolutely not true. We don't see, well, first of all, I mean, people know on here,

00:22:25.400 I'm a, I'm a Calvinist. And so there are some things that, that you said that, and you're also

00:22:29.700 a Catholic, I'm a Protestant. So there are some things that we disagree with, of course, when it

00:22:33.680 comes, uh, when it comes down to theology, but I come at the anti-theocracy stance from the point of,

00:22:40.000 we don't see any biblical precedent for it. I mean, the only biblical precedent that you see

00:22:44.620 for a theocracy is Israel and that's God's chosen people. America is not God's chosen nation. Um,

00:22:52.840 even if we think America is exceptional and in the new Testament, like that's not what we see Jesus do.

00:22:59.040 He doesn't command us to go out and build a theocracy, but the balance is, um, everyone,

00:23:05.000 no matter your worldview, no matter your background, no matter your belief system, you are trying to

00:23:10.440 influence people around you in the spheres you occupy with your worldview. Progressives do that.

00:23:17.180 Christians do that. And that's okay. It's okay for us to say, yes, we believe that if we align with

00:23:22.200 biblical morality on these things, that individuals and communities and societies will be better.

00:23:28.000 That doesn't mean that we want to dictate everything you do in accordance with the Bible,

00:23:32.760 but there is absolutely a balance and there is, we do have an interest in influence,

00:23:39.160 influencing the spheres we occupy with Christian values in the same way that an atheist wants to

00:23:44.560 influence the spheres they occupy with their values. Um, okay. I want to, I want to ask you about

00:23:52.480 Joe Biden and, um, and this will kind of transition us, but I want to get your take on what he says

00:23:58.900 about, um, what he said about this whole Texas law. So he tweeted on the second, the Supreme Court's

00:24:05.300 ruling overnight is an unprecedented assault on constitutional rights under Roe v. Wade.

00:24:10.240 Complete strangers will now be empowered to inject themselves in the most private of health decisions,

00:24:15.120 health decisions. The law does not even allow exceptions in cases of rape or incest, um, rather

00:24:22.940 than use its Supreme authority to ensure justice could be fairly sought. Of course, we know that he did not

00:24:28.260 write these tweets. There is no way the highest court of our land will allow millions in Texas in need of

00:24:34.460 critical reproductive care, another Orwellian term to suffer while courts sift through procedural

00:24:40.600 complexities. And then he goes on about how he disagrees with the, uh, with the conclusion of the majority

00:24:47.540 of the court in his last tweet says, I am launching a whole of government effort to respond to this decision,

00:24:53.260 looking specifically to HHS and DOJ to see what steps the federal government can take to insulate

00:24:59.720 those in Texas from this law and ensure access to safe and legal abortions as protected by Roe.

00:25:05.280 What is your take on that? Well, I think it's really interesting. So this is procedural nitty gritty,

00:25:11.060 as he mentioned, that might be the one accuracy in that, in that entire tweet for there, it is procedural

00:25:16.520 nitty gritty. And the reason for that is because we weaning the pro-life movement, this doesn't have to be

00:25:21.820 conservatives, it doesn't have to be Republicans. It's everybody who believes in the sanctity of

00:25:25.960 human life and that abortion is wrong. We in the pro-life movement have, um, we have created a great

00:25:33.860 victory. I'll say it like that. We have created a great victory for ourselves culturally, meaning we

00:25:38.560 have been successful in changing people's hearts and minds on abortion. We have changed public opinion

00:25:44.740 on abortion. And I'll give an example here so that I'm not being vague. There, there is no topic,

00:25:49.640 perhaps more polarizing than the topic of abortion, except when you ask people privately when they think

00:25:54.980 abortion should be restricted by the government. For example, 80% of the American people, that is

00:26:00.520 Republicans and Democrats, liberals and conservatives, pro-life and pro-abortion, 80% of people think that

00:26:06.280 late-term abortion, third trimester abortion, should be prohibited by the government. It's not just

00:26:11.820 late-term abortions. 60%, that's a huge majority, by the way, on any issue. If you have 60% majority,

00:26:17.840 it's a very big number, 60% think that second-term abortions should be prohibited by the government.

00:26:25.080 So the reason that we see laws popping up around the country in states like Texas to this effect

00:26:30.540 is because the people of the United States want restrictions on abortion. We're one of, I think,

00:26:35.280 seven countries around the world, including China and North Korea, who allow late-term abortions.

00:26:41.480 We are at the very extreme end of abortion laws, even for liberal, liberal countries in Europe,

00:26:48.000 for example. We have, the United States of America has more permissive laws on abortion,

00:26:52.140 less protective laws for the unborn than most states. So over the past, you know, 30, 40, 50,

00:26:57.100 60 years, the pro-life movement has exerted a tremendous, successful effort to change people's

00:27:01.880 hearts and minds. So what happens first culturally is then translated politically. Now, politically,

00:27:07.700 in states across the country, pro-life legislators have successfully passed laws because their people

00:27:14.420 want it codifying the protection of unborn babies in the womb. The problem, of course, is that all of

00:27:20.320 these laws come against the buttress of Roe v. Wade. Roe v. Wade saying that even states have no right

00:27:26.780 to restrict abortion access to women. No right whatsoever, except in late-term abortion after

00:27:33.340 viability. That was the precedent in Planned Parenthood versus Casey. So we have this conflict,

00:27:38.400 this contradiction between what the people want and what the states want versus what the Supreme

00:27:42.800 Court arbitrarily ruled about Roe v. Wade. So, of course, I know this is exactly what liberals don't

00:27:48.560 want to happen, but what we need to do is we need to acknowledge, well, Roe v. Wade was wrong.

00:27:53.720 It wasn't based in the Constitution. It wasn't based in science. It's not based in ethics. It's not

00:27:57.500 based in precedent. It's not based in interpretation of what the founders thought, what they believed,

00:28:01.560 what they wrote, what they intended. Nothing. It's an arbitrarily decided decision based only

00:28:06.200 on the political agenda of radical leftists who wanted abortion to be accessible without limit,

00:28:11.900 essentially, across the United States because they don't believe in the sanctity of human life.

00:28:16.660 They don't believe in the constitutional values that all people are created equal, that all people

00:28:20.940 have equal protection under the law. So we have to look at Roe v. Wade and say, yes, it's time to

00:28:27.360 revisit this. It's time to overturn it. It's time to kick this back to the states

00:28:31.040 because the people believe differently than what a handful of male Supreme Court justices

00:28:36.840 half a century ago arbitrarily decided not based on case law. So that's how I would respond to Joe

00:28:43.540 Biden that, yes, we have resorted to procedural tactics because we all know, Joe Biden included,

00:28:49.600 the leftists included, the pro-abortion lobby included, that Roe v. Wade was wrongly decided.

00:28:53.600 Right. And don't you find it strange, especially, I mean, as a devout Catholic? And I know when I bring

00:29:01.540 that up, there are people that say, oh, you know, separation of church and state. Well, we've already

00:29:05.300 established this is not a separation of church and state issue. And everyone operates, you know,

00:29:11.180 from their values. And Joe Biden has said for a very long time, look, you know, well, first of all,

00:29:17.900 he was for the Hyde Amendment for a long time, which prohibits our tax dollars from federally

00:29:22.880 funding most abortions. And then he said that he wants to repeal the Hyde Amendment. He used to say

00:29:28.300 he's ready for or he's willing to accept the Catholic Church's stance that life starts at

00:29:35.080 conception. And then he recently flip-flopped on that. He has become very rabid in the way of

00:29:42.380 abortion, in the way of being pro-abortion. Of course, Kamala Harris was the most pro-abortion

00:29:49.280 senator when she was in the Senate. And so it doesn't really, I guess, surprise us coming from

00:29:55.520 this administration. But seeing someone who used to be a moderate, who we were told by, for example,

00:30:00.400 pro-life evangelicals for Biden, that he wasn't really going to be that passionate about being

00:30:06.200 pro-abortion. Well, he is. And he is actually showing that he cares more about this. A whole of

00:30:12.160 government effort to go after Texas. He cares more about this, it seems like, judging from

00:30:18.020 this Twitter thread, than he does about Americans abandoned in Afghanistan, don't you think?

00:30:23.400 Yeah. I mean, I'm not here to say who's going to heaven and who's going to hell. There's one

00:30:27.680 arbiter of those decisions, and it is certainly not me. What I can tell you is that when Joe Biden

00:30:33.100 claims to be Catholic, he is violating the fundamental tenets of the Catholic Church. He's

00:30:37.140 violating the fundamental tenets of Christianity. The Catholic Church teaches that life begins at

00:30:41.960 conception, and that we are all made in the image of God, that our bodies are temples of the Holy

00:30:46.620 Spirit. Obviously, all of these biblically-based beliefs on unborn children. And they teach that

00:30:53.640 abortion is a grave moral evil, that if you are complicit in an abortion, and this includes,

00:30:58.500 by the way, politicians who advocate, who use their positions of power to influence abortions,

00:31:05.140 to influence public policy in favor of abortions, that you are in a state where your salvation is in

00:31:11.080 question. It's called mortal sin in the Catholic Church, that you're in a state of mortal sin.

00:31:15.000 And so Joe Biden is literally choosing. He is faced with this choice. He's choosing between

00:31:19.120 his own salvation versus, you know, child sacrifice because of his political aspirations. And he's

00:31:25.780 rejecting Christ, because we're all made in the image of Christ. So he's rejecting the image of

00:31:30.060 Christ in these unborn children and choosing instead this antichrist, this satanic belief

00:31:36.920 about child sacrifice. So like I said, I can't say whether, you know, what's going to happen to

00:31:41.440 his salvation. I can't say whether he's going to heaven or hell. What I can say is that he is

00:31:44.740 rejecting one of the fundamental tenets of the Catholic Church. And so I don't know how you can

00:31:48.520 claim to be Catholic while rejecting your beliefs on that. He has also shown, as you mentioned,

00:31:53.960 this terrible disregard for human life in other areas. I don't know what to think of this part of

00:32:00.420 his presidency, Ali. You mentioned that he didn't write those tweets himself. I think we all suspect

00:32:04.960 that his agenda is not being dictated by himself. He has surrounded himself and his administration

00:32:10.700 with very, very radical individuals, whether it's Kamala Harris, as you mentioned, whether it's

00:32:16.480 Javier Becerra at HHS, the former attorney general in the state of California, very pro-abortion,

00:32:22.440 whether it's the second in command at HHS, a transgender individual from Pennsylvania who thinks it's okay

00:32:28.680 for children to be transitioned genders, even against perhaps the wishes of their parents. I mean,

00:32:33.780 Joe Biden has proven what his political agenda is just by who he's surrounded himself with. And so

00:32:41.360 we don't have to question anymore whether he's a moderate, whether he's going to be a centrist.

00:32:45.020 We know that he is as radically left as possible, and he's willing to use the power of the federal

00:32:49.600 government to push his agenda. It's a sorry thing to see. One last note, by the way, the idea that he

00:32:56.840 says, I am prepared to accept that life begins at conception, or I think he said that in 2015,

00:33:01.360 he recently contradicted himself. But the fact that he said that he's willing to accept that,

00:33:05.340 but then politically isn't willing to back that up, that would be the same as saying, well,

00:33:10.680 I'm personally anti-rape, but politically, I don't want to put that. I don't want to impose

00:33:15.140 that kind of law on anybody. You simply can't be personally pro-life and politically pro-abortion.

00:33:21.280 It's a fallacy. It's a contradiction. It's false.

00:33:31.660 I want to read this one. You mentioned something that reminded me of this quote that I

00:33:37.340 read by Peter Kreeft the other day. He is a Christian professor. He said,

00:33:43.120 abortion is the anti-Christ demonic parody of the Eucharist. That's why it uses the same holy words,

00:33:49.260 this is my body, with the blasphemously opposite meaning. And I mean, I had never thought about it

00:33:57.540 like that, how it inverts the Eucharist by also saying those sacred words, my body, but using it

00:34:04.040 in such a contradictory and demonic way. And so what you said about choosing the anti-Christ

00:34:12.440 when it comes to abortion really stuck out to me because I think it's absolutely true. And it's

00:34:18.200 very sad. And we really haven't seen throughout Joe Biden's presidency in other areas, a respect

00:34:25.120 for life, especially when we're looking at all of the other divisions of his presidency and his

00:34:31.520 leadership. And when you look at the border, when you look at what happened in Afghanistan, when you

00:34:36.320 look at even the economy, we're not seeing this so-called holistically pro-life approach from this

00:34:43.580 administration. Can you tell us, like, what else do you think about Joe Biden's leadership right now,

00:34:50.160 maybe especially as it pertains to things like the border and what's going on in Afghanistan? Because

00:34:56.240 I do think those things are kind of tied together. Oh, certainly. I mean, I cannot think of a

00:35:01.340 presidency that's worse than Joe Biden's first eight months in office. My husband's former military,

00:35:08.800 he was a medical officer in the Navy. He was attached to Marines. So it's all, I mean,

00:35:14.460 it's personal for all of us just as Americans, right, when we lose our troops in combat. But it's

00:35:21.480 particularly heart-rending. And this is one, when these 13 American service members were killed,

00:35:26.300 this one hit me particularly hard because I looked at these young men and these young women who were

00:35:32.180 following the direction of their commander in chief, the bad direction of their commander in

00:35:35.840 chief. And I thought they're willing to lay down their lives. And they did. And it wasn't necessary.

00:35:42.620 This wasn't something where it was like, well, in order to fight off this evil, sometimes that evil

00:35:47.040 requires, like, that's what happens in war. War is deadly. People on both sides of both sides of a

00:35:51.720 conflict die. No, that's not what happened in Afghanistan. What happened in Afghanistan is Joe

00:35:56.380 Biden's political choices that he made deliberately led to the death of these 13 service members,

00:36:02.240 U.S. service members. And Ali, what's not mentioned a lot is the fact that in that blast,

00:36:07.240 in that bomb, in that terror attack outside of the Kabul airport, there were over 150 Afghans who were

00:36:13.100 killed too. 150 other people besides the 13 U.S. service members were killed. And you don't hear

00:36:20.180 about that on the U.S. news. You'd only hear about these tragedies when it happens to American

00:36:24.640 citizens or American troops. But it's an equal tragedy when 150 other innocent people were killed

00:36:31.120 in this terror attack. And Joe Biden is directly responsible. I know he's not the one that detonated

00:36:35.460 the bomb, but he allowed the Taliban to take over Kabul. He allowed al-Qaeda to gain this hold again in

00:36:42.460 Afghanistan after the U.S. had driven them out over the past two decades. He allowed ISIS-K to flourish

00:36:49.560 the way that he did in Iraq after he and Obama pulled troops out of Iraq and ISIS went into the

00:36:56.580 vacuum of power there and were able to grow and flourish and export their terrorism around the

00:37:00.880 world. Joe Biden, this is worse than Vietnam. It's worse than Vietnam because we historically know

00:37:06.500 what happens when you capitulate to terrorists. We know what happens when you capitulate to the

00:37:10.740 enemy. We know what happens when you surrender to a terror group. And Joe Biden did that anyway.

00:37:16.260 He knew what would happen, and he did that anyway. And I think that's why when you ask people,

00:37:21.680 no matter their political affiliation, what they think of Joe Biden's choices in Afghanistan,

00:37:26.140 everybody is horrified. Everybody hates what he did, except for a few fringe radicals,

00:37:30.800 probably on both sides of the aisle, because he just disregarded human life. That might be his

00:37:36.060 defining legacy, is his utter disregard for human life.

00:37:38.980 Yep. And it reminds me, I mean, it goes back to ideology for them. And it reminds me of the ideology

00:37:44.000 that drove the Obama administration, this idea that if America flexes its strength, that that's

00:37:51.280 bad for the world. And that actually, if America capitulates, and if we take America down a notch,

00:37:56.260 and we don't flex our muscles, even if it means, you know, saving American civilians in Afghanistan,

00:38:04.780 then things will be okay. If we just capitulate to the Taliban, if we just say, okay, sorry, sorry,

00:38:10.200 sorry, you know, we'll be weak, we'll back out. And yeah, sure, we'll leave on August 31. Don't worry

00:38:15.260 about it. And even though, according to the New York Times, there's at least 1000 people,

00:38:20.200 dozens of American citizens, the New York Times says Afghans holding visas to the United States

00:38:25.020 or other countries, they remain stuck in Afghanistan. This is at least as of Sunday. And, you know,

00:38:32.640 our military leaders have already said, which is not true, I've talked to enough people to know that

00:38:36.740 this isn't true. Oh, yeah, we didn't have the capacity to get all of these Americans out. But we

00:38:42.940 did have the capacity, apparently, to airlift 1000s and 1000s of Afghans who are not SIVs. And they're

00:38:50.880 not necessarily our allies. And I have all the compassion in the world for them. I'm glad that

00:38:54.640 they got out of Afghanistan. I'm just saying that if American citizenship means anything, which I think

00:39:00.080 that it should, if there is any privilege and any right to being an American citizen,

00:39:05.540 then it should mean prioritizing American lives and rescuing Americans from Afghanistan. But in this

00:39:12.440 situation, you see a total deprioritization of American lives, a complete negligence in trying to

00:39:19.120 capitulate, as you said, to the Taliban. But also, we see a deprioritization of American security when

00:39:25.300 we're seeing that there is a complete lack of vetting process. And when we are allowing these

00:39:30.880 Afghan refugees into our country, and again, I'm happy to have a number of Afghan refugees come to

00:39:35.720 America. But when there's no vetting process, I think it's very fair to wonder, okay, what could

00:39:40.880 possibly be the repercussions of this? And then when you look at the completely open border, and run

00:39:47.240 down Border Patrol at the southern border, we see that this is an administration who seems to have

00:39:53.740 the motto of America last. We saw this with Obama a little bit, but now we are seeing the full

00:40:00.460 manifestations of it. And I'm very worried about what the consequences might be in the coming months

00:40:05.940 and years. Are you? Yeah, certainly. I mean, I feel the same way about Afghan refugees. If their lives

00:40:10.760 are in danger, which so many of them are, I'm happy that they're able to escape the Taliban. I mean,

00:40:14.680 what we should have done is we should have avoided this circumstance, but not allowing the Taliban to

00:40:18.440 take over. But Joe Biden made that choice to do so. I read the numbers yesterday. I think it's

00:40:22.900 something like 30,000 Afghan refugees. The U.S. has evacuated 30,000. 10,000 of them

00:40:28.380 were basically flagged. They needed additional review. Of that 10,000, 100 of them had very

00:40:33.480 troubling backgrounds, and at least two of them weren't even allowed. They were taken to Kosovo,

00:40:36.980 I believe, because they had distinct ties to terror organizations. So that's only the ones that we know

00:40:42.000 of so far. That's extremely troubling. I mean, to think about those individuals who haven't been vetted

00:40:46.820 in our neighborhoods per se. I mean, as a mom, that scares me. As a compassionate American,

00:40:51.300 I want people who are in danger to be evacuated from Afghanistan, but I don't want people who are

00:40:56.480 a danger to me and my family and my neighborhood and my community and my country to be allowed to

00:41:01.060 roam free in our nation. I mean, going back for a second to the idea of American citizens,

00:41:05.900 there are American citizens in Afghanistan who want to be evacuated. We're told by Jen Psaki,

00:41:10.680 we're told by the Biden administration that the only people there are people who want to stay there.

00:41:15.300 But Ali, there's a pregnant American citizen. She's eight months pregnant. She tried to get to the

00:41:20.140 airport and the Taliban kicked her pregnant belly. I mean, I can barely, I've talked about this story

00:41:25.360 on my show, but I can barely talk about it just thinking of how horrendous that is. She's now in

00:41:30.280 hiding because she fears for her own life and the life of her child. There's a three-year-old boy

00:41:34.880 from California. He's a US citizen. He and his dad tried to get to the airport. They wanted to leave

00:41:39.460 Afghanistan. The Taliban beat them both, beat this tiny baby, beat this three-year-old. I mean,

00:41:45.820 this person wanted to leave Afghanistan. Joe Biden is lying to us because he's not willing

00:41:50.060 to actually stand up for human life. The same thing is happening at our southern border.

00:41:54.920 And I know this is a slight pivot, but it stays in the line in this theme of this disregard for human

00:42:00.400 life. The people that are coming across our border are not just asylum seekers. Many of them do have

00:42:04.840 sad stories and many of them perhaps deserve asylum after it's been adjudicated in the court system.

00:42:09.820 But many of them are drug cartels, are human traffickers, have prior convictions for things

00:42:15.140 as horrible as child sex abuse and spousal assault and rape and murder and all kinds of violent

00:42:21.560 crimes. They've been convicted and deported, and they're trying to come back now. The Biden

00:42:25.360 administration is just releasing them into our country. This is something that, again, it doesn't

00:42:29.480 matter your politics. This is about the basic safety and security of our own families,

00:42:33.480 especially as moms, Ali. I think this is maybe why so many women, so many moms have gotten

00:42:39.960 politically involved lately because they realize that this is not just a matter of push and pull

00:42:45.260 of politics. Who has the best solution for the same problem? That, no, this is a fundamentally

00:42:49.140 dangerous ideology for us and our children and our families. And if we don't get involved,

00:42:52.760 who's going to protect us?

00:43:02.040 I think you're right. America last is bad ideology. It is bad foreign policy. It's bad domestic policy.

00:43:11.480 Strong borders, strong foreign policy is not just compassionate and right for the citizens of this

00:43:16.580 country, which are the only citizens, by the way, that this government has a responsibility to protect.

00:43:26.300 Yes, of course, we also have a responsibility to help out our allies, and that is all important.

00:43:32.020 But their primary responsibility is to look after the welfare of the citizens of this country. And

00:43:37.980 unfortunately, it just seems like this administration is not doing that. That is not compassionate for

00:43:42.060 migrants who are unfortunately being trafficked across the border. There are incentives, more

00:43:47.700 incentives than ever, for trafficking these young children across the border because of the policies

00:43:52.240 of the Biden administration. It's not compassionate for the people in this country either. And going back

00:43:57.720 to some of what you were talking about in the backgrounds of some of these refugees that are

00:44:03.040 coming in, this is according to the New York Post. U.S. officials are looking into reports that elderly

00:44:08.400 Afghan men were permitted to evacuate with young girls they claimed as, quote, wives, with some of

00:44:13.220 the purported child brides brought to an army base in Wisconsin, according to a report on Friday.

00:44:21.020 And look, like this is where this idea of like cultural and moral relativism just falls apart,

00:44:25.540 that every culture has their own equally legitimate set of morals that we have no right to say that's

00:44:31.580 good or bad. No, like we have to be strong in this and say it doesn't matter what your cultural

00:44:36.100 background is. Taking a child as a bride is not permitted in the United States. And obviously,

00:44:42.620 we have to be strong on that. But that was according to the Associated Press actually recorded this

00:44:47.780 or reported on this as well. And to say that that is somehow xenophobic or that is hateful to say,

00:44:55.240 hang on a second, like I have concerns about people, old men who have taken child brides coming into this

00:45:01.880 country and roaming free and what kind of consequence that's going to have on communities.

00:45:06.280 And yet we're kind of being told like we shouldn't even be able to voice those concerns because that's

00:45:10.940 somehow racist. I'm just not buying that. Oh, no. I mean, none of us should buy it. I mean,

00:45:16.300 I think of my little baby girl and I think of this idea that when she's what, seven, eight,

00:45:22.660 nine, 10, 11, 12, that she would be taken as a child bride. I mean, all you have to do is put

00:45:26.440 your own family in that circumstance and you know how horrific it is. As you said, it's not racist.

00:45:31.080 It's basic protection of these little girls. We're not just supposed to protect our own families.

00:45:34.660 We're supposed to protect children from child abuse. This is the worst kind of child abuse.

00:45:38.460 It's child sex abuse. These girls are actually reporting to U.S. authorities that these men are

00:45:43.440 raping them. I mean, it's so horrendous. It's so horrendous. And anybody who's excusing that

00:45:48.680 is complicit in it morally. And it's disgusting. The fact that we're even having this conversation,

00:45:55.300 that there's anybody in our country who's even giving an excuse for why this should be

00:45:59.000 allowed is mind boggling. But no, no one should have any qualms about saying, stop. No, absolutely

00:46:05.180 not. We're not allowing this. I don't care what your background is. Yeah. It's when this idea of

00:46:10.200 intersectionality kind of conflicts with human rights, when we see people wanting to on the left,

00:46:17.980 wanting to kind of ignore this. Now, I think the majority of people who identify as liberal care about,

00:46:24.480 you know, child abuse and things like that, too. So I'm not just painting them with a broad brush

00:46:28.420 and say no one on the left cares about this. But in general, there seems to be some disregard of

00:46:33.740 this kind of thing for fear of coming across as racist or xenophobic. And this idea that, you know,

00:46:39.960 or Islamophobic, this idea that we can only criticize one group of people and we're not allowed to

00:46:46.860 criticize anyone with a higher melanin count. It kind of leads to this contradictory moral worldview

00:46:53.940 we also see it. There was a report about that case at We Spa in L.A. The woman, and I'll just

00:47:04.340 remind the audience, I'm sure you remember, Liz, the woman who came to the front desk of We Spa in L.A.

00:47:08.880 and said, hey, there's a dude in the women's locker room. There are young girls in the women's

00:47:13.220 locker room. And there's this dude walking around naked. And he's, you know, exposing himself to these

00:47:20.640 young girls and we feel very uncomfortable. And people shamed this woman in the video saying,

00:47:26.320 oh, you know, this person's transgender. And then there were, I guess, conservatives who

00:47:32.900 protested in front of We Spa. And then there were these people who identify as Antifa coming and

00:47:39.060 protesting the protesters trying to defend this supposedly transgender person who was naked walking

00:47:47.160 around in the women's locker room. Well, it turns out that that wasn't a fake story. This woman

00:47:53.440 reported something that actually happened, that there was a man who, I guess, says that he is a

00:48:00.260 woman walking around in the locker room, exposing himself to young girls. And he has actually been,

00:48:06.840 he's been charged multiple times with the same kind of crimes. And yet you have people who literally

00:48:14.780 would rather allow, would rather allow this kind of sexual harassment of young girls by a man

00:48:21.160 than criticize, than criticize him for fear of seeming transphobic. Again, like this is where

00:48:28.000 that, you know, intersectionality actually takes precedence for some people on the left over human

00:48:34.960 rights, especially children's rights. It's crazy. It's super crazy. And this is why I always say

00:48:40.100 when you oppose when we should, and we should all do this, by the way, when we oppose

00:48:44.100 the idea of letting biological men, even if they identify as women into women's locker rooms or

00:48:49.040 women's bathrooms, it has nothing to do with transgender people, right? It actually has nothing

00:48:53.040 to do with people with gender dysphoria. Gender dysphoria is a real thing. I'm sure it's an

00:48:56.920 incredible burden. I actually can't imagine what it feels like to feel that you are trapped in a body

00:49:01.140 that's not your own. It is a mental disorder and we should have tremendous, tremendous compassion

00:49:05.800 for people who suffer from that. That being said, compassion does not mean, compassion does not

00:49:10.940 translate into essentially enabling that delusion. Just as we don't tell schizophrenic people that the

00:49:16.760 voices that they hear in their head are real, we shouldn't be telling people that suffer from

00:49:20.720 gender dysphoria that what they're feeling is a legitimate feeling. We should be giving them the

00:49:25.280 medical care that they need. So that being the preface of what I'm about to say is that it's not

00:49:30.580 anti-trans to oppose allowing biological men, even if they identify as women, to enter women's

00:49:36.940 bathrooms. It's not about those people at all because most of the time, the egregious incidents

00:49:41.820 actually have nothing to do with people who suffer from gender dysphoria. The egregious incidents

00:49:46.320 are people who pretend to be trans, but they're actually voyeuristic perverts who are preying on

00:49:52.800 young girls. They are preying on children. They are betraying women's privacy. And so it's of course

00:49:59.820 appropriate for us all to say, hey, as women, as grown women, we don't want to share a locker room

00:50:05.220 with strange men. We don't want to see male genitalia when we're changing our clothes.

00:50:09.380 We don't want our children exposed to that. We don't want, God forbid, our little girl to see

00:50:13.620 something flashing before her eyes that belongs in a male's locker room. And we certainly don't want

00:50:18.760 to let them fall victim to child sex offenders who would use the guise of being transgender,

00:50:24.100 even when they're not, to enter a girl's locker room. So there's two entirely separate arguments to

00:50:29.560 be made. We can talk about gender being two genders, male and female, corresponding to your

00:50:34.040 body and your DNA and God's design. And then we can talk about the safety issue of bathrooms being

00:50:40.100 open to people of the opposite biological gender. That, of course, being redundant, I know. And it's

00:50:45.780 not anti-trans to talk about either. We should be standing up and protecting little girls.

00:50:50.900 Yep. I very much agree with you. That's something that we talk a lot about on this podcast and that

00:50:57.300 balance of saying, no matter your background and no matter how you identify, you're someone who's made

00:51:02.880 in the image of God, I want to talk to you. I want to have compassion for you. And I don't want to

00:51:07.380 purposely offend you or, you know, make you feel hated in any way. But look, in every policy,

00:51:14.800 especially when we're talking about policy and we're talking about public spaces, we have to talk

00:51:19.320 about both sides of the equation. We have to talk about, okay, how can we be compassionate to all

00:51:25.520 people? That means being compassionate towards the girls and women who are in these private and

00:51:31.520 vulnerable spaces who just a few years ago, we would have recognized have a right to not be

00:51:37.340 sexually harassed by men in those private spaces. I want to talk about one more story. And this is,

00:51:44.620 again, a pivot, but I guess I can connect it in the way of talking about false narratives. And I can

00:51:52.580 also connect it in the way of talking about a disregard for human life that we were talking about

00:51:57.700 in the first half of the episode. But this really more has to do with just propaganda. And you're

00:52:06.060 really good at dissecting propaganda. So I want to talk to you about this Rolling Stone story. I'm sure

00:52:12.120 you saw it reported on Ivermectin. And the Rolling Stone said they relied on one source from a guy who used to

00:52:24.160 work at a hospital in Oklahoma City. And this guy apparently told the Rolling Stone, hey, yeah,

00:52:31.180 our ICUs are full because people are overdosing on Ivermectin. And a statement was released by this

00:52:39.900 hospital, Northeastern Hospital System, that replied to the Rolling Stone article saying that this huge

00:52:45.560 thing that's happening in Oklahoma, you know, all these right wingers taking Ivermectin and almost

00:52:50.000 dying from it. While the Northeastern Hospital System says that, okay, yeah, this guy is not an

00:52:56.100 employee of our hospital system. He is affiliated with a medical staffing group that provides coverage

00:53:01.920 for our emergency room, but has not worked at the location that he was talking about in over two

00:53:07.540 months. And by the way, we have not treated anyone for an Ivermectin overdose. And so this story is

00:53:15.040 completely false. Well, Rachel Maddow talked about it on her show. She tweeted about it. She never

00:53:20.200 apologized. She did not take the tweet down. And the Rolling Stone just issued a correction, but not a

00:53:26.280 retraction, didn't take the tweet down. So now everyone is freaking out about this, pretending like

00:53:31.320 this story is true. It's not true. And guess what? Ivermectin has been used by millions and millions of

00:53:38.560 people for a very long time, very safely. So what is all this about? Yeah, I mean, you identified it

00:53:44.660 correctly at the beginning. It's propaganda. It's also really funny to me, and we'll get to the lies

00:53:49.320 from Rachel Maddow and the mainstream media for a second. It's really funny to me that the mainstream

00:53:53.020 media who claims, they claim, you know, leftists always claim to be the party of science. They keep

00:53:57.900 calling Ivermectin a horse dewormer or a horse medication. And there is a livestock version of this

00:54:04.660 drug. It's a more concentrated version. But Ivermectin won the Nobel Prize in 2015 as a human

00:54:10.840 medicine. So anybody who has identified any journalist, journalist, put that in quotation

00:54:15.140 marks, any journalist or mainstream media talking head or any news publication that's just referring

00:54:20.060 to Ivermectin as a livestock medication is deliberately lying to you. They're deliberately

00:54:25.020 misrepresenting this drug because it has a human form. And like I said, won the Nobel Prize in 2015

00:54:30.120 in its human form. Allie, it's been the strangest thing. I think you'll agree with this. It's been the

00:54:35.260 strangest thing the last 18 months to watch the devolution of our public health officials.

00:54:41.980 And they, of course, have harnessed the mainstream media to help them do their work to watch the

00:54:45.900 devolution of our public health officials from people of science who are just trying to, I guess,

00:54:51.440 help people. And I don't even want to ascribe that good of motives to them at this point because

00:54:55.340 they've lied to us so much. But the devolution into these political animals who are ignoring

00:55:00.460 science, ignoring studies, this Ivermectin, I have no idea if it works, by the way, against COVID-19.

00:55:06.360 I have no idea. I have not used it myself in that particular circumstance. However, the public health

00:55:11.700 conglomerate, if you will, is so opposed or they appear to be so opposed to any therapeutic that

00:55:18.800 someone could take after they contract COVID-19 that they are not willing to accept actual studies,

00:55:24.520 actual data of anything that works, and then incorporate that recommendation into their

00:55:30.680 overall advice on how to treat this pandemic. They are singularly focused on just pushing these

00:55:36.700 vaccines, which, again, I don't care if you get the vaccine. I don't care if you don't get the

00:55:40.280 vaccine. That's your personal choice. I don't think government or the private sector should be

00:55:43.600 involved here. Again, just people's personal choice, not my business, don't care. However,

00:55:48.640 the public health community doesn't feel the same way. They are singularly focused on coercing

00:55:53.740 everybody into doing that. And the only way that their narrative stands up is if they don't accept

00:55:58.920 that there's any other way to prevent COVID-19 from being fatal in cases where it would otherwise

00:56:03.800 be fatal. I think that's why they rejected at the beginning hydroxychloroquine. They've rejected

00:56:08.740 studies about vitamin D. They've rejected studies about obesity. They've rejected now this emerging data

00:56:14.260 on ivermectin. They don't really talk about monoclonal antibodies that much. They just are singularly

00:56:19.560 focused on this vaccine. So they have to use these mainstream outlets.

00:56:23.740 As propaganda to push the idea that all of this is hogwash, that any therapeutic aside

00:56:29.540 from the vaccine shouldn't be used. And as you said, it's resulting in lies and shame on all

00:56:35.260 these mainstream outlets for not confirming this before they echoed it and not retracting

00:56:39.880 it when it's been proven to be false, because it is false.

00:56:42.560 Yep. And I mean, I'm not recommending ivermectin either, only because I'm not a doctor and I've

00:56:47.760 never taken it. I have heard positive stories anecdotally, but I've also, I've listened to a lot

00:56:52.740 of doctors who expressed the same sentiments that you did, not just about ivermectin, but other

00:56:57.100 treatments that they're, that this is really unprecedented. One, that the bureaucrats, the NIH

00:57:02.460 and the CDC are trying to tell doctors on the ground what they can and can't do. When doctors

00:57:06.960 on the ground are like, hang on, Dr. Fauci has never treated a patient with COVID. People at the NIH and

00:57:11.900 the CDC are not treating patients with COVID. We should be telling the CDC and the NIH, these

00:57:17.100 doctors on the ground are saying what treatments are working. And then those institutions should

00:57:23.300 be distributing these protocols saying, Hey, here's what doctors on the ground are seeing.

00:57:28.740 Here's what has been effective. But instead, because they've politicized it so much, you and

00:57:34.080 they're telling doctors, Hey, it doesn't matter what you've experienced. And actually pretty much

00:57:38.820 calling doctors quacks who say, Hey, here's a list of, you know, therapeutics that have worked in my

00:57:44.300 personal experience. Doctors are saying I've personally saved lives. I've personally had

00:57:48.960 great outcomes from a, you know, a variety of treatments. Those people are getting censored off

00:57:54.360 of YouTube. Those people are getting, you know, lambasted by the mainstream media as some kind of

00:57:59.740 quacks when they're not, they're just ICU doctors. Like these are just people that are saving people's

00:58:04.320 lives. And it does make people wonder, I mean, what it makes people conspiratorial, whether you

00:58:09.760 like it or not, when you feel like, okay, why are they hiding legitimate information from legitimate

00:58:14.220 sources? It too, it sows distrust, as you've already said, in institutions that we're supposed to be

00:58:19.660 looking to for guidance in this situation, but it absolutely costs lives because then doctors on the

00:58:26.780 ground, because they're listening to these institutions, they're not treating patients the way that they

00:58:30.980 should be treating them, the way that experience and deductive reasoning tells them to treat them.

00:58:35.300 And people are literally dying because of politics. And yet you've got people on the left that are

00:58:39.700 accusing people on the right of politicizing this. No, no, no. The left has politicized every single

00:58:45.280 piece of this since they figured out that they could use it against Donald Trump in the election.

00:58:50.480 They haven't stopped. And it's become a religion for them that the tiers of holiness just get higher

00:58:56.520 and higher. At first, it was, you're super holy and loving your neighbor if you stay inside and you,

00:59:02.520 you know, don't go in to run the restaurant that you own or whatever. And then it was, okay,

00:59:07.320 you're only holy if you wear a mask everywhere, even outside when you're picnicking. Then it was,

00:59:11.420 you're only holy if you wear a double mask. And then it was, you're only holy if you get both

00:59:16.460 vaccines. And now it's, well, you're only going to be truly holy and loving your neighbor if you're

00:59:20.380 getting the booster. And so it just goes on and on. And it doesn't matter. It doesn't matter like how

00:59:26.100 much you point out the propaganda and the facts against so many of their arguments, whether it's

00:59:29.840 against masking kids or whether it's against, you know, natural immunity versus vaccine immunity.

00:59:35.320 Some people, it seems like, in our public health institutions, in the media, a lot of constituents,

00:59:41.740 millions of American citizens do not care about the facts. They are going to cling to this virus and

00:59:47.820 the so-called mitigation measures for as long as possible because it has truly become an identity for

00:59:53.480 them. And it's really sad. It's super sad. I mean, it's almost becoming a mental issue for a lot of

00:59:58.500 people, how they're hiding behind masks because they don't want to socially interact, how they're

01:00:02.580 letting fear dictate their lives, how they're, you know, rejecting facts just in favor of being docile

01:00:08.460 and compliant, deferential to government authorities. It's, it's not a great commentary actually on the,

01:00:14.160 on the citizenry of our nation. It's very sad to see. It's also very heartening to see how many

01:00:18.540 people are able to say, wait a second, I'm going to think for myself. I'm going to make my own

01:00:22.320 decisions. I'm going to read the studies myself. I'm going to draw conclusions myself. And if it

01:00:25.720 contradicts the government, I'm going to trust myself because I know better. That is very heartening

01:00:29.800 to see. Um, it is somewhat of a religion. It's certainly, I believe it's a government tactic at

01:00:35.280 this point to control us. I think the reason that we're seeing so much hysteria, even to this day,

01:00:40.820 is because without this hysteria at this point, without this hysteria, there's going to be no

01:00:45.740 justification for a lot of the electioneering that the Democrats need to win in 2022. There's

01:00:51.620 not going to be any justification for mail-in ballots for those 24 hour drop boxes for a lot

01:00:56.740 of the, uh, election laws or rules, I should say that were strong armed in the months leading up

01:01:02.060 to 2020. There's not gonna be any justification for those in 2022. And again, the Democrats need

01:01:06.780 them in 2022, unless there's this ongoing crisis. So I think it's certainly, if it wasn't always

01:01:12.280 political, it's certainly political now, which is why it behooves us all share the research,

01:01:17.420 share your experience, share what, you know, question authority. Oh, don't worry if someone

01:01:21.920 has a medical degree and you don't, you have reading comprehension, read those studies yourself,

01:01:25.800 talk to your friends about them and ultimately trust your gut and trust your own, trust your own

01:01:30.140 reasoning, because you're probably right. If you think that these government agencies are

01:01:33.560 misleading us, they have been for the last 18 months. Yeah. And that's not to say like you

01:01:37.340 mentioned, trust yourself. I'm not saying that, oh, I trust myself, um, ultimately as, uh, you know,

01:01:44.400 um, as a medical expert or a scientist, because I'm neither of those things. But like you said,

01:01:50.060 I have reading comprehension and I am looking at study after study talking about, for example,

01:01:54.640 that really kids wearing masks does not mitigate the spread of the virus at all. Um, or doesn't stop

01:02:01.060 the spread of the virus at all. And so I'm not just relying on a hunch that I have, I am reading,

01:02:06.440 like I'm not, and I'm not just reading like hollysholistics.com. Like I am reading peer

01:02:11.560 reviewed studies. I am looking at journals before all of this was politicized. Um, and I'm listening

01:02:17.040 to people that are on the ground, ICU doctors, biologists who are not conservatives most of the

01:02:22.900 time that have raised flags about, okay, why are we, why aren't we treating patients like this?

01:02:28.260 Why is there such a push on this particular vaccine and not on therapeutics at the same time?

01:02:33.920 Um, and so don't stop yourself from asking questions just because you have been lied to

01:02:40.040 that holiness and loving your neighbor means without question, accepting everything that the

01:02:46.620 government says. That's just not true. We're seeing what's happening in Australia when people don't

01:02:50.600 question the government. Right. And also remember too, if, I mean, if we're operating and living our

01:02:54.960 lives as we should be as Christians, you know, from this biblical standpoint, standpoint, God says to

01:02:59.660 love the Lord, your God with all your heart, with all your soul, with all your mind,

01:03:02.080 with all your strength. I mean, mind is included in that Bible verse for a reason. We're supposed to

01:03:06.920 critically think you're absolutely right. When you say we're not just operating on a hunch here.

01:03:10.080 When I say trust yourself, I mean, trust your ability as a thinking individual to put together

01:03:15.200 information, put together research and be able to logically draw a conclusion and then be able to

01:03:20.120 trust that conclusion because you have reading comprehension, you have understanding, you have

01:03:23.820 actual expert opinions weighing in. That's what I mean when I say trust yourself. And we should do that

01:03:29.280 because that is honoring God with our minds because we're made to be thinking individuals. We're not

01:03:34.000 made to be a bunch of sheep. We're not made to be just a docile citizenry that defers to government

01:03:39.580 officials just because they serve in government. We're a representative society. You know, our

01:03:44.280 republic is a representative republic. These government officials are either supposed to be

01:03:48.280 directly accountable to us if they're in our legislatures or they're supposed to be, I guess,

01:03:53.080 the bureaucrats are supposed to be accountable to the legislatures. That's a whole different

01:03:56.560 conversation about the administrative state and unaccountable bureaucrats serving in these

01:03:59.920 executive agencies. But the point is these people are not on a pedestal higher than us. We are not

01:04:05.940 their subjects. We are a cooperative, collaborative, representative type of government society when

01:04:12.940 it comes to governance. So our opinions matter. Our critical thinking matters. And the conclusions that

01:04:18.240 we draw do matter. Absolutely. And I could keep going on that. Like you said, there's a whole different

01:04:24.960 there's a lot of things in there that I could keep asking you out, but we've got to close out.

01:04:29.540 We'll definitely have you back to just talk about so much of the stuff that we didn't get to cover

01:04:34.360 today. But can you remind people once again where they can find you? Yeah, absolutely. This is so

01:04:38.800 much fun. You can find me at LizWheelerShow.com if you want to find me on all the platforms. You can

01:04:43.280 also, if you could, subscribe to my podcast, Liz Wheeler Show on Apple Podcasts, on Spotify, basically

01:04:48.700 wherever you get your pods. We're also on YouTube and Rumble for video formats. If you want to be part of

01:04:53.520 the Liz Wheeler Show community, you can join us at LizWheelerShow.com slash locals. Locals is a free

01:04:58.240 speech platform where we don't have to censor at all. Or you can find me on Twitter at Liz underscore

01:05:02.760 Wheeler. Ellie, this has been so much fun. Thank you so much for having me. Thank you so much, Liz.

Relatable with Allie Beth Stuckey - September 07, 2021

Ep 483 ｜ Refuting Propaganda on Ivermectin, Abortion & Afghanistan ｜ Guest： Liz Wheeler

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