Relatable with Allie Beth Stuckey - Ep 485 ｜ Can a 9⧸11 Survivor Forgive Al Qaeda？

00:00:00.000 Hey guys, welcome to Relatable. Happy Thursday. We have a treat for you today. On Saturday

00:00:14.940 is the 20-year anniversary that seems like a strange word to use, but it has been 20 years

00:00:23.280 on Saturday since 9-11. And today we are talking to Texas State Senator Brian Birdwell, who

00:00:29.820 was in the Pentagon on 9-11, suffered very severe injuries from that. He is going to

00:00:35.340 tell us in detail the experience that he had that day, how his faith in Christ carried

00:00:42.600 him through that day and the years to come. He's also going to tell us what kind of perspective

00:00:48.880 that has given him about this country and in particular the things that have gone on in

00:00:56.760 and with Afghanistan over the past few weeks. And so he has a very gripping story for us

00:01:04.060 to hear. He has some lessons for us to learn. He has some reminders for us to hold on to,

00:01:11.400 but he also has some encouragement for us to cling to. You will hear him give hope for America

00:01:19.360 and the belief that America is still an exceptional place with liberty that is worth fighting for. So

00:01:27.120 I'm very excited for you to listen to this conversation. You're going to love it. You're

00:01:32.760 probably going to get emotional. That's okay. This is an emotional subject and an emotional day

00:01:39.220 for sure. So I'm so looking forward to hearing what you guys think about this interview. So

00:01:46.360 please let me know. Without further ado, here is Senator Brian Birdwell.

00:01:55.920 Senator Birdwell, thank you so much for joining us today. Can you tell everyone

00:02:00.960 who may not know who you are and what you do?

00:02:03.960 Well, I'm Lieutenant Colonel Retired, United States Army, Brian Birdwell, but also now serving

00:02:09.220 as State Senator Brian Birdwell, serving the people of Senate District 22 in the State Senate,

00:02:13.840 anchored primarily in Waco and McLennan County, but ranging all the way from Tarrant County to a

00:02:19.520 little south of Waco. So I've got what we call the heart of Texas district in the State Senate.

00:02:24.300 Yes. And the reason why we are having you here for this particular episode is because I want you to

00:02:30.380 relay the story of you being in the Pentagon on 9-11. I know you've told this story many times,

00:02:37.480 but as we were talking about before we turned on the cameras, not only are there people out there

00:02:43.340 who have never heard your story, there are many people listening to this podcast, watching this

00:02:47.600 podcast who are not alive on 9-11. So I would love for you to just take us back to that day. Tell us

00:02:53.800 exactly what happened. Yeah. I was serving as an aide to a flag officer in my staff directorate on the

00:03:01.080 Army staff. We had an E-ring office. The E-ring is the outermost ring of the Pentagon. The A-ring is

00:03:06.740 the innermost ring. And of course, there's five rings. My partner as an aide, Colonel Williams,

00:03:14.440 was our aide to our flag officer, our senior flag officer, Major General Van Antwerp. I was the aide

00:03:21.100 to the deputy, an SES-5, Jan Minnig. SES is the Senior Executive Service, but two-star equivalent,

00:03:27.960 but a civilian flag officer as opposed to a uniformed flag officer. Colonel Williams got

00:03:33.900 General Van Antwerp, Ms. Minnig, out of the building over to the Doubletree Hotel for a

00:03:37.780 conference that our staff directorate was hosting. And Sandy, Cheryl, and I settled in for what we

00:03:43.280 thought would be a slow day with both the principal and the deputy out. We'll get some of those things

00:03:47.280 done that we needed to get done. Sandy's daughter, Sam, worked up in New York and at about nine o'clock

00:03:52.300 called Sandy and said, hey, mom, turn the TV on. The World Trade Center's been hit by a plane. And

00:03:56.820 we did what you and every other American was doing that day, whether it was, you know, the radio on

00:04:02.900 the drive into work, already at work on TV or TV at home, whatever it was, went into Ms. Minnig's

00:04:08.620 office, turned the TV on and see the North Tower, first tower hit with that huge gaping hole, the black

00:04:14.680 smoke pouring out of the tower and hearing the newscasters, you know, what a terrible, tragic

00:04:20.680 accident this was. And shortly thereafter on live TV, we'd watch Flight 175 crash into the

00:04:26.880 South Tower, and that would confirm that neither were accidents. This was not a normal day in our

00:04:31.320 nation's life. And actually, Sandy, Cheryl, and I, we knelt down and just led a quick prayer that,

00:04:37.700 you know, we love our first responders, but Lord, you're the one that's going to be doing the bulk of

00:04:41.420 the life-saving today. When the prayer was over with, we continued to watch events unfold. No thought

00:04:46.740 that we were next. I'd had my morning caffeine jolt at seven o'clock that morning, and so I needed to

00:04:53.600 step out, go to the men's restroom. I told Sandy and Cheryl I'd be back momentarily. Those were the

00:04:58.180 last words that I would speak to my two co-workers. When I stepped out into the E-ring hallway to go to

00:05:04.400 the men's restroom, I actually walked through that part of the building that is impacted and crumbles

00:05:10.380 27 minutes after impact. So I walked through what would be the impact point. The men's restrooms at

00:05:16.400 the intersection of the fourth corridor and the E-ring. The corridors are the spokes that connect

00:05:20.520 the rings. So I take a quick left turn, pass the elevator, hit the men's restroom, come out. I'm now

00:05:26.420 in front of the elevator, about to turn right to go back through what will be the impact point when

00:05:32.420 flight 77 is deliberately crashed into the building. So I'm 15 to 20 yards to straight line distance from

00:05:38.280 where the nose of the aircraft to the nose of the fuselage makes impact with the building. And so

00:05:43.360 by it's the Lord's grace that I'm the only survivor in the E-ring at the crash site from an 80 ton jet

00:05:49.160 coming through the building and hitting the hitting the building at 530 miles an hour and still has about

00:05:54.740 3,000 gallons of fuel of its 5,000 pound load. And I mean, it's, I spent 20 years in the military and

00:06:03.520 most of my career has been as a heavy forces guy, big artillery, big tanks. I've been around a lot of loud

00:06:10.700 things in my life, but nothing as loud as that plane making impact. In hearing the sound, there's

00:06:17.160 that nanosecond where I think bomb. Right. And I go from a well-lit hallway in charge of my faculties

00:06:23.580 to an earthly hell of the fire, the smoke, the choking, the survival attempt. The impact blows me across

00:06:32.900 the corridor. I am set ablaze and there is a yellow orange-ish arch in front of me. And in the

00:06:42.080 periphery is just blackness. The only lights, the ambient glow of the flame. I'll experience three

00:06:49.040 pains and emotions in that those seconds, minute or two that seem to last an eternity. First is the

00:06:57.960 physical pain of the burns. I was burned on 60% of my body. 40% of my body is a third degree burn.

00:07:02.600 Third degree means you've lost the entirety of all three layers of skin. My arms from fingertip to

00:07:09.360 armpit on both arms are completely circumferentially grafted. Back legs, my eye sockets had to be

00:07:17.820 rebuilt. My ears are artificial cartilage with my own skin grafted over it. My most immediate

00:07:23.980 life-threatening injury is the inhalation injury of what I'm breathing in. The aerosolized jet fuel,

00:07:29.820 the slick, oily smoke from an inefficiently burning petroleum fire. And as I'm struggling to survive,

00:07:41.260 trying to get to my feet, the impact and the concussion of an 80-town bomb has destroyed my

00:07:47.720 sense of balance in my inner ear. I never do get to my feet. I can get to all fours. But I come to that

00:07:54.900 realization. I mean, we were all created with that zest for living, that desire for life. And, but there came

00:08:05.460 that moment that in that struggle to survive, that I came to the reconciliation of accepting that this is how I'm going

00:08:13.360 to die. However horrible and ghastly it is, this is how the Lord's calling me into eternity. And so I did what we in

00:08:21.200 the military are never trained to do. I surrendered. I gave up, collapsed to the floor. And in that moment

00:08:28.440 before surrender, that it really is the definition of terrorism that that sense of panic that grabs your

00:08:37.200 heart when you realize that you are facing a life-threatening injury and you cannot escape the

00:08:44.580 source and the results of that injury. Because I, you know, couldn't navigate. There's that darkness,

00:08:51.600 the blackness, the inability to, which way is the safety, which way is danger, which all those things

00:09:00.460 culminate in that feeling of the hopelessness of your situation. So as I collapsed to the floor,

00:09:08.340 waited to die, there was the third element of, of this death. And that's, it's the permanency and

00:09:15.900 the finality of death that, that morning when I said goodbye to Mel and Matt, um, you know, I'd have

00:09:23.260 to leave the house at about to catch the bus, 520, 530, uh, kiss Mel on the cheek. You just look at your

00:09:29.720 12 year old. You don't wake them up at five in the morning. Um, uh, so I just looked at Matt,

00:09:35.780 went out the door. And if I'd have known that morning, I was going out to what was surely my

00:09:42.460 death, I would have said goodbye with a greater rigor than I did that morning. Um, as I lay there

00:09:50.720 waiting to, for that feeling of the soul departing the body, I never came. And even in my, you know,

00:09:56.920 our sinful nature is, as humans created by the Lord, that my sense of patience, it's like, okay,

00:10:03.980 Lord, you know, let's get on with this thing. And, and he had other, other things in mind. As I opened

00:10:08.860 my eyes with that feeling not coming, um, I could see down at the distance toward the A ring.

00:10:16.220 And if you're like a ship at sea, you can't see the light bulb of the lighthouse, but you can see the

00:10:21.700 reflection off the surface of the ocean. The lights are, are blown out near me. Now way down

00:10:27.400 there, they're still intact and operating, but I don't see the light because the smoke is filling up

00:10:32.820 the ceiling of the corridor, but I can see the reflection off the tile floor. So I use the wall

00:10:38.480 that I've been blown up against. And as a third and fourth point of contact to, to stagger my way down

00:10:44.940 the hallway, Allie, the, I don't want to be gratuitously graphic, but it's just, it's best

00:10:55.140 to say that I am terribly indisposed. I've only got portions of my clothing still intact, my leather

00:11:03.040 belt, my shoes, the front of my shirt is still there, but covered in my own blood. I've been skinned

00:11:09.680 alive. There's chunks hanging off the arms. I can feel my eyes already swelling because of the,

00:11:17.520 uh, in the, in the burn is that part of the body begins to, to swell. The difficult, the blinking is,

00:11:23.220 is thick for lack of a, when I'm blinking my eyes, I can feel how swollen they are. I staggered down the

00:11:30.320 hallway, 30, 25, 30 yards in this condition. And four men, Bill McKinnon, Roy Wallace, John Davies,

00:11:36.320 and Chuck Knobloch come out of the B ring doors into the fourth quarter. They weren't looking for

00:11:40.960 me specifically. They were looking to get to some of their coworkers. The plane had actually cut

00:11:46.720 their, as it passes through the D and the C ring, cuts their coworkers that are in those rings, um,

00:11:54.120 cuts them in half in the, in dividing their section. They come out into that B ring hallway to try to get

00:12:01.220 down there. Roy sees me coming out of the smoke. And when I saw Roy, um, back in 2017 at, at one of

00:12:08.720 the Pentagon Memorial ceremonies, this is the most gruesome thing he's ever seen of, of watching a

00:12:14.300 burned alive human being walking out of the smoke in the, in my exhaustion of having covered 25 to 30

00:12:21.000 yards in that condition. And, and then the relief of knowing that I'm about to subordinate myself to

00:12:28.080 whatever my comrades in arms are going to do for me. And I just collapsed in front of Roy.

00:12:34.440 And again, I don't want to be gratuitous here. Um, this is not a place to tarry and wait for medical

00:12:43.020 care to get to me. The, the crash sites just 50 yards away, smokes filling up the hallway. The

00:12:49.600 facilities managers of the building have closed the fire door between the A and the B ring.

00:12:54.820 Had Bill Roy, Chuck and John not come out of the, the B ring doors into the corridor. I assumed that

00:13:01.160 I would have gotten down to the fire door and then sat down there and either died of my injuries or

00:13:06.540 died of smoke inhalation because there's no way to open that. Only a fireman on the other side can

00:13:11.760 open that door. Um, Bill Roy, Chuck and John in their haste to move me and a haste, not in the sense of

00:13:20.340 urgency may be the better word and their urgency to move me. Each grab a limb and give that first

00:13:27.380 exertion to pick me up, but I don't come with them. They pull chunks off of me and I begin screaming

00:13:32.080 at them to leave me alone because that, that's my first insight into what's ahead of me as a,

00:13:39.840 though I don't know I'm going to survive this. What's ahead of me in the medical care being a,

00:13:44.320 a burn survivor. Um, touching me is absolutely agonizing. And so what, what the four of them

00:13:52.120 actually do, Chuck is the biggest of the, of the four of them. Chuck rolls me over on the left,

00:13:56.800 touching, like I said, touching me is agonizing. Chuck rolls me over on the left hand side

00:14:01.420 and then forcibly puts his arms, the wrist and the forearm underneath my left torso again,

00:14:10.660 chunks that, but essentially Bill Roy, Chuck and John, instead of grasping me or gripping each

00:14:17.500 other's arms, like they're shaking hands with my body weight resting on their connected arms.

00:14:22.880 They will carry me through back through that B ring door and do an access way into the A ring.

00:14:27.560 And they'll take me down to where the intersection of the fifth and sixth quarters meet the A ring.

00:14:32.840 And that's where I'll receive my first medical care from a great air force doctor named John

00:14:37.540 Baxter. And, and, uh, thanks to all those air force folks out there. Cause usually saying great

00:14:42.580 and air force in the same sentence is really difficult for me, but, but, uh, the normal service

00:14:48.000 banter, but Dr. Baxter is an air force flight surgeon. He's trying to get, he's got his go bag with

00:14:54.340 him. He's coming down the stairs with all the other folks that are coming down where Bill Roy,

00:14:58.820 Chuck and John set me is essentially become a hasty triage site. There's four or five other people

00:15:04.160 that have been put there. When Dr. Baxter comes down the stairs, he sees some of us that are there.

00:15:11.040 He immediately comes to me to, to, to begin to treat me. He asked me, you know, my name.

00:15:20.260 That's how Bill knows it's me. Um, cause Bill, uh, Bill McKinnon and I, we had been, uh, classmates

00:15:26.100 at command and general staff college at, at Fort Leavenworth. But I, of course, certainly I recognize

00:15:30.880 Bill, but Bill doesn't recognize me. I mean, that's, again, I'm not trying to be gratuitous. I just,

00:15:36.600 I'm a charbroiled American and Dr. Baxter will ask me if I haven't, if there's any injuries that,

00:15:44.980 that I have that, that he cannot see. I said, I don't think so. I, I have control of my mental

00:15:53.300 faculties. I do not have control of my physical. I'm trembling violently. Dr. Baxter, the only place

00:15:59.880 that he can see, cause it, he's going to, he's going to give me a morphine shot, uh, to get the

00:16:06.100 shock under control. Uh, and then also put an IV in me. The only place he can do that is he takes

00:16:12.800 my leather shoes off that were protecting my feet because the rest of my clothes provided no

00:16:18.980 protection. So the, the sock above the, the trim of the leather shoe is gone, but the sock below the

00:16:25.920 shoe, he takes the shoe off what's left of the sock underneath the leather, and then puts the

00:16:31.220 morphine shot into the top of the right foot, the IV in the top of the left. And he's doing this

00:16:36.320 with Colonel David, another air force officer that, that came with him under the duress of

00:16:42.120 the fire alarm is, is going off. I mean, it's loud as all, all get out. And then there are people,

00:16:48.280 I mean, this is a 30,000, 32,000 people in the building. And it seems like most of them are coming

00:16:55.440 out, you know, down the staircase that we're next to. So there are people jumping over me,

00:17:01.100 people jumping over other people and getting out of the building. And he does this under that kind

00:17:07.500 of, I mean, it's already hard enough to do an IV in a foot, uh, doing it under those circumstances.

00:17:11.800 They did really well. While I'm in the hallway at the initial impact, those seconds and moments

00:17:19.140 seem to last an eternity. But once I'm with Dr. Dr. Baxter, Colonel Davitt, and then a wonderful lady

00:17:27.300 from the Navy, Natalie Ogletree had grabbed her Bible when it was time to evacuate, get out of the

00:17:32.120 building. She grabbed her Bible. She's coming down the stairs, sees me. She's just led to, to pray with

00:17:38.060 me. Um, speaking is very difficult because of the inhalation injury. I mean, I've got the lungs of

00:17:43.620 a 20 year smoker without ever having smoked a cigarette, but, um, she reads the 91st Psalm over

00:17:51.180 me. Um, Dr. Baxter, uh, administers the treatment, writes out on the toe tag, what he did, puts it on

00:17:58.120 my big toe. But all of that took about 30 to 35 minutes, but it seemed to pass lickety split.

00:18:06.320 Um, I'm eventually loaded on a body board, the, in the, in the Pentagon, because the building's so

00:18:12.440 large, uh, kind of like the relief pitcher golf cart. Uh, that's what the ambulances are, except

00:18:18.520 they're elongated. Um, the ambulance gets to where we're, I don't know how it all happens, but the

00:18:25.720 ambulance gets there. Uh, they put me on the body board, load me onto the golf cart. Um, specialist

00:18:31.700 Pena is driving and, uh, Sergeant Nimrod is, is my medic. That's, uh, uh, sitting next to me as my

00:18:38.820 body board is they get me out, out to the, uh, eighth quarter exit, which is on the north, uh,

00:18:45.680 north side of the building that looks toward the Washington monument. Um, but all the ambulances

00:18:51.100 because of the crash is at the fourth quarter, it's closer to go to South parking. So they end up,

00:18:57.320 um, taking me to, there's a young captain named Captain Wineland. It's his first day of work.

00:19:02.420 What a day to be your first day at work. Um, he was there to sign in. Uh, he's got a driving a Ford

00:19:08.780 expedition. They empty out the back of his Ford expedition, throw me in. Um, Jill Heisen is an air

00:19:17.100 force, uh, medic. She's there doing her two weeks of annual training at the Di Lorenzo clinic,

00:19:22.340 but normally she works at Georgetown. She hops in the back. Also major John Collison, who I knew

00:19:28.240 John helped load me in the back. Didn't know it was me. He was loading, but he sees my toe tag

00:19:33.540 with my name on it. And it's like, Oh my God, this is Colonel Birdwell. So he hops into the back.

00:19:40.160 And so I've got Captain Wineland's driving. I tease with folks at times the drive to Georgetown is

00:19:47.940 what nearly killed me. Not a DC traffic's bad. And so, um, we get to Georgetown and I mean,

00:20:00.100 this is, there are so many miracles I'm, I'm passing over Allie, but the Lord's putting the

00:20:06.280 right people at the right time with the right training and circumstances for my survival.

00:20:10.600 And the, the most seminal one is the, is the one I'm about to describe. And that's,

00:20:14.840 I'm the only casually taken to Georgetown. In fact, when Mel's getting to Georgetown, the,

00:20:21.180 the news radio, uh, broadcasts are, are listing the casualty numbers at each of the respective

00:20:29.480 hospitals. And as other hospital numbers are climbing, Georgetown is just one.

00:20:36.280 So I've got the entire hospitals undivided attention, but more importantly, when we get

00:20:41.840 there, Dr. Williams, Georgetown is a teaching hospital because it's the hospital at the,

00:20:45.600 at the university. Dr. Williams is the attending physician and the director of, of medical trauma

00:20:52.760 training at Georgetown. Prior to coming to Georgetown, he went through a two year fellowship and learning

00:20:59.360 how to be a train wreck doctor under the direction of Marion Jordan and James Jang. Dr. Jordan at the

00:21:05.160 time was the president of the American burn association and the director of the Washington

00:21:09.340 hospital centers burn unit. Dr. Jang was his deputy director, chief of research. So from the perspective

00:21:16.360 of emergency room care, all the great hospitals in DC, I've got the third best doctor in the DC region

00:21:23.920 to address burns because, and the reason that's so seminal is because when flight 77 has crashed into

00:21:29.380 the Pentagon. Shortly thereafter, inside the white house situation room, vice president Cheney will

00:21:35.440 turn to secretary of transportation, Mineta and tell him to shut down all airspace in the United States.

00:21:40.420 That means medical, medevac helicopters are not flying. Nothing's flying in DC except military aircraft.

00:21:47.000 And so Dr. Williams comes to the left-hand side and my eyes are nearly swollen shut by this point. I mean,

00:21:57.280 I'm just looking through little slits in my eyes and I can see in Dr. Williams eyes, the gravity of what's going on.

00:22:05.760 And as they were wheeling me in, it's a lot, it's like a battle drill. There's a lot of intensity, gravity,

00:22:10.460 voice commands, but no chaos. And Dr. Williams says, Brian, we're going to the best that we possibly can

00:22:16.880 for you. And so I asked to do two things because I'd been thinking about this on the, on the drive over

00:22:23.840 with, with John. The Lord may have answered the question of life or death in the building,

00:22:30.780 but the question of life or death this day is not yet answered.

00:22:34.320 And as I was wheeled in some of the voice commands that were being said is normally if you're burned

00:22:43.520 with the, if the part of the body that's burned has jewelry, ring, bracelet, necklace, as the body

00:22:50.300 swells, that jewelry functions as a tourniquet and can cut blood flow off. And if you don't get to medical

00:22:57.640 care and if you don't get that removed quickly enough, you can have a, a unintended amputation

00:23:06.680 be, be required because of, so they're talking about cutting the ring off and I didn't want the

00:23:12.080 ring cut. Um, there was never an opportunity to call Mel. Um, and so I asked Colonel Dr. Williams,

00:23:22.840 I said, take the wedding ring off. Don't cut it. Don't, don't destroy it. Judith Rogers,

00:23:29.940 one of the OBGYN nurses that had answered the all hands on deck call is standing right next to Dr.

00:23:36.020 Williams is to my left. She's to Dr. Williams, right. And John's just behind them in between

00:23:41.620 them. Major Collison, Judith with her. I mean, I so vividly remember she reaches with her ring

00:23:47.980 her gloved hand for the ring. My fingers look like blackened hot dogs extending from an overly

00:23:54.900 well done steak. The body melts long before gold does. She reaches for the ring, gives it a slight

00:24:03.100 tug to gloves, part of the, part of the finger blood begins streaming out of the base of the hand. And I

00:24:09.520 don't recall it hurting. And I don't think so much because of Dr. Baxter's morphine shot, but because

00:24:15.680 I'm concentrating on the dignity and the finality of the death, I know I'm dying and saying goodbye,

00:24:22.900 goodbye to my wife and my son to the symbolism of that wedding ring. And I asked John says, give that

00:24:30.220 to Mel and tell her that I loved her. And then I asked Dr. Williams for the hospital chaplain and

00:24:37.360 Chaplain Cirillo had already arrived to the, to the right-hand side. I did not see her till,

00:24:42.500 till my attention was drawn to her. And she just led that prayer that said, you know,

00:24:49.060 Lord, as the great physician, if you brought Brian here so that under your direction as the great

00:24:54.260 physician that Dr. Williams and the team here tend to Brian and Brian survives, we'll salute that flag

00:25:00.320 and move out with that mission. But if you've brought Brian here so that under the care and

00:25:07.620 compassion of his fellow Americans, you call him quietly into eternity, we'll salute that flag too.

00:25:16.040 And when that prayer was over with, it was with the strength, not of a soldier, but as a believer

00:25:20.300 in Christ that I could look at Dr. Williams and very laboredly say, let's get on with it,

00:25:25.900 resting in the comfort of who was in charge of my eternity and who was in charge of my life.

00:25:30.140 And I remember them when that was done, tilt the feeling, the feeling of my head being tilted back

00:25:38.300 because they're going to intubate me. And the thing that I will most vividly remember is that

00:25:44.780 mask going over my face because it's the last thing I'm going to see tilting my head back.

00:25:50.320 And then I'm rendered unconscious from the volume of anesthesia they're having to give me.

00:25:59.000 And Dr. Williams will do the very brutal things that have to be done to the burn survivor.

00:26:03.840 Again, normally it's airway breathing, circulation, and then evacuation to specialized care.

00:26:08.640 But the Lord put him there so that not just stabilizing airway breathing and circulation,

00:26:15.100 but he'll begin to do the escharotomy, the debridement, the excisions, very difficult things

00:26:23.080 that you're glad you're unconscious through it, but because it's the things that have to be done

00:26:28.820 for me to be able to survive this. I'll eventually be transferred to Georgetown. Mel's got a great

00:26:34.600 story in her own accord of how she got there, how she got notified. Again, the Lord putting the right

00:26:41.160 people at the right time, the right place. Mel will get there just before, about four o'clock,

00:26:46.640 just before I'm evacuated to the Washington Hospital Center burn unit. The hospital had been

00:26:52.040 asking the FAA for clearance to fly me. She gets there. The ICU at Georgetown is a cardiac ICU.

00:27:05.520 They do all the bypasses. They do all the bypasses and things of that nature. But one of the former

00:27:11.560 burn nurse, burn unit nurses, Deb Trishel, had transferred from the burn unit at Georgetown

00:27:22.120 because she wanted to start working ICU. So I've got, not just in Dr. Williams, but I've got Deb Trishel

00:27:29.140 as my burn nurse in an ICU unit that's primarily designed for cardiac.

00:27:35.520 Mel will get there. She says she'll never forget the smell. I mean, it's like a gas station.

00:27:41.820 And they prepare her to come in and see me. I have no idea she's there.

00:27:50.940 And then they'll take me to the helipad. Helicopter will fly me. A Georgetown University

00:27:57.080 police officer will drive her to Washington Hospital Center. And the streets of Washington, D.C.

00:28:03.180 have never been that clear since Abraham Lincoln was the president of the United States when the

00:28:10.600 Confederacy was threatening a Capitol. So it was just eerie for her to see that. We'll get to

00:28:18.600 the Washington Hospital Center and we'll survive. The Lord was very gracious. There are a lot of hard

00:28:27.640 things that I knew I'd ask questions about, but I've just described what was the very beginning

00:28:32.440 of a four-year reconstruction, survival reconstruction. And great story of the Lord's grace.

00:28:41.600 I hope I wasn't too. You weren't. No, don't worry about that. You know, that's what helps

00:28:55.900 relay the story and puts people in the position. No matter how many times I've told the story,

00:29:01.120 the emotional connection to the events in Georgetown. And then the hardest thing, Matthew is, I don't

00:29:16.000 know how, I mean, I don't want to filibuster you, but Mel had gotten to the hospital. I'll tell

00:29:22.720 you how this came about. Mel got to the hospital. She's at the burn unit. The ICU in the burn unit

00:29:30.480 has seven. It's in horseshoe shape. There's seven rooms. I'm in room six and there's just a curtain.

00:29:38.160 About two in the morning on September 12th, Lieutenant General Peake is the chief of the

00:29:43.800 Surgeon General of the Army. And the attack's over, but they're trying to basically husband the,

00:29:51.680 where are all the casualties? Who's most critical? And he comes to my room and

00:29:59.280 ask Mel, you know, can we go in and see Brian together? And Mel would be very perceptive,

00:30:08.300 as you would expect. She's also a Tuflo bulldog, you know, a little package of dynamite. You know,

00:30:12.660 Lord knew who I needed when I was. And General Peake would ask Mel, you know, has Matthew been up here

00:30:20.260 to see his father? And she said, no, he's not ready for that yet. General Peake and Howie would say it,

00:30:26.000 you need to get Matthew up here to see his father as quickly as you can. And Mel would process that

00:30:31.240 wisely. He's telling me my husband's dying. And the odds of my, Dr. Jordan, of the nine of us that

00:30:37.740 arrived, Dr. Jordan expected all but one, I'm sorry, all but two to decease. And only one did. Antoinette

00:30:47.780 died on the 17th. Matt comes to the hospital. And my sense of time and order in ICU was pretty

00:30:57.900 distorted. But he said, I'm wrapped like a mummy. And Matt comes in, you know, says, I love you,

00:31:03.600 dad. I have a trach. There's no air going on my voice, so I can't speak. I can just mouth,

00:31:08.560 but I've got a, you know, I've got a feeding tube through, you know. And I'll never forget

00:31:17.840 that intensity. And so when, when we got to have that, that little time with Elijah and

00:31:28.860 then Lily, when she was born and the things that we've had, you know, whether it's a, I

00:31:34.800 mean, Mel and I have had the opportunity to encourage both the spouse and the serviceman

00:31:38.940 that, that's got an amputation or, or, uh, missing an eye or, or, um, twice said what

00:31:49.600 I did about every scar is worth our freedom, you know, because Christ scars, you know, when

00:31:55.060 Thomas says, you know, show me and, you know, so in Christ's glorified body, we'll see the

00:32:01.280 price of our eternal freedom when we're with him in eternity. And the scars that we see on

00:32:07.140 the, on the human body, the scars we see of all the headstones in cemeteries across the

00:32:12.800 country, that's the price of freedom. And every one of those lives is precious, but every one

00:32:20.700 of them was worth it in defending the preciousness of freedom and the opportunities before us.

00:32:26.220 So watching the last few weeks has been hard. Yeah. Watching people kneel during the national

00:32:32.540 anthem and with no sense of, who have never sacrificed themselves either. Yeah. I mean,

00:32:39.460 it's, it's, yeah. So it's, uh, when you've paid in blood, I mean, I, it's kind of funny. I got my

00:32:47.720 purple heart for coming out of the men's restroom. That doesn't go over very well with, with, uh,

00:32:53.020 I shouldn't say it. It, it, it's a feeling of inadequacy on my part when I'm at a veterans group

00:32:59.460 and, you know, I, I got my purple heart for coming out of the can. Yeah. What, you know,

00:33:05.020 but they understand. They do after I, after I, Oh, yeah. But, uh, um, but when you paid in blood,

00:33:15.120 it's pretty special to you. I imagine that one of the hardest, most difficult thoughts that you

00:33:21.940 could have had and all of that was the possibility of not seeing your son grow up as a mom. That's

00:33:28.560 something that I would be thinking about and possibly not only not seeing them grow up and

00:33:33.160 accomplish all the things that you knew that he would, but possibly not seeing your, your

00:33:37.760 grandchildren. So what, what was that like? What was that fear like in those moments?

00:33:43.140 The, you've mentioned the blessing of the last 20 years that even with the scars or my range of

00:33:51.760 motion limitations or, or what, um, the last 20 years have been a blessing to see the things in life

00:33:59.020 that in those moments on that day, and certainly that month of ICU where I pleaded for the Lord to

00:34:08.280 finish what the terrorists had started. After I got to see Matthew, that's the hardest thing

00:34:14.800 my country's ever asked me to do was say goodbye to my son under such, I mean, I'm wrapped like a

00:34:22.620 mummy. I've got a tube in every orifice of my body. And I mean, every, and I'm not trying to be

00:34:27.160 gratuitous alley. I just, um, when that visit was done, I was like, okay, Lord, it's time to finish

00:34:38.680 this. I'm in agony and I'm watching my family in agony. Let's get this over with. And

00:34:47.960 in my humanity at that point, it was the, just wanting the immediacy to be done. The Lord knows

00:34:59.440 what he's doing though. And so now Mel and I have had the opportunity instead of her seeing things

00:35:05.880 as a widow over the last 20 years, we've gotten to see Matthew graduate, you know, high school,

00:35:13.340 graduate from Texas tech back in 2013, uh, get married. We had a fabulous daughter-in-law in Ann

00:35:21.520 Marie and then two little grandkids. In fact, when the first one was born, when, when, uh, Elijah was

00:35:30.720 born, the, uh, it was a hospital in here in Fort Worth. And we got to see him and hold him for a

00:35:41.780 little bit. And then as they tended to, uh, tended to him and Ann Marie and, and, you know, Mel and I

00:35:49.660 stepped out and went, just went down to a, a, uh, uh, not secluded, but a little bit more private part

00:35:58.180 of the hospital and just had a good cry together and a cry of joy that, um, the things that we might

00:36:08.500 not have seen as a, as a couple, but I would want, I would want your viewers and listeners to

00:36:16.680 see this and, and know that the Lord's still gracious, but also that every scar that I physically

00:36:25.220 wear or emotionally wear and every other veteran that wears a physical or emotional scar,

00:36:32.220 every one of those scars is worth the freedoms that this country offers because no matter our

00:36:39.280 maladies, this is still the greatest place on God's green earth. And you know, the Lord saw fit to

00:36:46.840 wear some scars for our eternal freedom. And so that's, that's why these things are so important

00:36:54.700 because it's, uh, it's an opportunity to remember what the Lord did in our lives personally,

00:37:00.320 how he, uh, helped form this nation and how precious freedom is. And if you don't believe

00:37:07.400 me, go look at that plane taken off out of Kabul with people hanging onto it because they wanted

00:37:12.640 to come here. Right. I'd love to hear you talk a little bit more about that because there is some

00:37:18.540 cynicism, I would say, especially among the generation who wasn't alive for 9-11, that there seems to be

00:37:24.900 this, um, sense of privilege and entitlement that also comes with just kind of a disregard

00:37:32.540 for liberty or, um, a naivete, I guess, about how rare it is to be able to enjoy the freedom that we

00:37:42.640 have that has been sacrificed so gravely for. Do you still believe that there is hope for this

00:37:51.180 republic that we live in over the past year and a half? A lot of people have started to have their

00:37:56.520 doubts. Well, you know, the, in those moments in ICU, it was a lot like that footprints in the sand,

00:38:04.680 you know, where the Lord's carrying you. And while we see the darkness at this moment, whether it's

00:38:11.320 our mutual friend, David and Tim Barton, um, and what they're doing with training up a new generation,

00:38:17.000 others that, uh, uh, that we know. And I do think there's still plenty of hope because one,

00:38:23.640 the Lord still sits on his throne, but two, people are opening their eyes to the challenges that are

00:38:28.960 before us. I've got some, some staffers that are a great indication that future generations get it.

00:38:35.840 And so while news media tend to always report the abnormal, not the normal, um, those that are

00:38:44.860 still believe in this country, know its freedoms are precious. The ones that aren't kneeling during

00:38:50.700 the national anthem, they're not getting the media attention. The others are, but they're the

00:38:56.560 minority. They just get the majority of the attention as opposed to the people that are making this

00:39:01.920 country work every day, doing the best that they possibly can being the best at their chosen

00:39:07.020 professions and making this country work that opportunity to go be the best that you can be at

00:39:12.840 whatever your chosen profession is. And like you said, if we didn't know it already, seeing the

00:39:18.020 desperation of people trying to flee Afghanistan, risking their lives, hanging on to planes, like you

00:39:24.400 said, trying to escape and trying to get to the greatest country in the world. There's a reason why

00:39:29.520 more immigrants flee to America every year than to any other country by far. Um, seeing the images

00:39:37.420 and the videos coming after or out of Afghanistan rather, and seeing just kind of, um, the fumbling

00:39:44.920 of this administration when it comes to evacuating Afghanistan. Fumbling is a generous, uh, description.

00:39:51.860 It's charitable, isn't it? Yes. I would like, I would like to hear your perspective on that. I mean,

00:39:57.160 does it make your whole experience sting a little bit more or is it just kind of, you know,

00:40:02.620 you knew this was inevitable eventually? It hurts because look, I'm, I'm like that guy at Pearl

00:40:10.260 Harbor that I'm knocked out of the war on the first day. Um, I never got to Afghanistan, never

00:40:17.740 got to at least Iraq this go around. I was there in 1991 and, but it watching what's occurred over the

00:40:26.740 last three weeks has been hard to watch it. I hurt for our fellow veterans. Um, just a couple of

00:40:33.380 weeks ago, I got to visit with a group of about 20 and encourage them say, thank you. Cause a guy

00:40:39.840 like me that that's injured on that day that when we commemorate the memorial of September 11th,

00:40:46.960 it isn't just those that died that day that were injured that day that responded like first

00:40:54.380 responders, police, fire, medical, just the average greatness of the American citizen. That's just

00:40:59.640 doing his part to help where he can to relieve suffering, whether it was at ground zero, the

00:41:03.860 Pentagon or otherwise. But it's also every young man or woman that a day later, week, month, year,

00:41:11.460 years later, raised their right hand and said, I'll support, defend the constitution of the United

00:41:15.160 States against all enemies, foreign and domestic. Those young men and women that were killed,

00:41:20.220 those 13 and then, and the others that were wounded that were killed two weeks ago.

00:41:25.460 Many of them were like what weren't alive yet or had just been born months before we champion them

00:41:33.000 because they were where they were out of a sense of duty and responsibility to their country.

00:41:39.740 And what happened on the morning of September 11th. So that's why we say thank you to them. And I think

00:41:45.880 I still have great hope for this country though. There's, you know, in, in the, in the fixed

00:41:51.560 bayonets perspective of looking at, Oh my gosh, you know, look at our problems. Um, the Lord still

00:41:58.820 sits on his throne. He's still in charge and there's still hope. And folks like you that are using this

00:42:05.100 platform, others, particularly to reach a younger generation that I, as a 59 year old about to turn 60

00:42:11.300 wouldn't reach, you know, um, there's still a lot of hope because this is still the greatest place

00:42:17.460 on earth. I mean, I've been to those places that aren't, and you know, maybe there's some hope for

00:42:22.940 folks that think this place was really terrible. Go visit some of those places I've been to and then

00:42:27.720 come back and complain to me. Yep. Yep. Absolutely. Thankfully, my parents taught me from a very young

00:42:33.680 age to love this country and be grateful. And I, there's never been a day in my life where I haven't

00:42:39.120 realized that I am exceptionally blessed to live in the United States. That doesn't mean that we don't

00:42:45.720 have our problems. Every country does, or that we haven't had failures in the past, but man, I'm not

00:42:52.360 so insulated to think that, um, to think that the struggles that I may suffer here in America are even

00:43:00.540 comparable to the struggles that people who have never been able to taste freedom one day in their lives.

00:43:09.120 So in your, I am second video, you said that with time you'd be able to forgive. Yeah. Do you think

00:43:23.720 that you have, um, I don't know that I'll ever be able to say Ali, because it'd be much, I'd be

00:43:34.500 confident that I could if the five, and I use the term loosely men that crashed seven, polite 77 in

00:43:41.560 the building, if they had repented and came and said, please forgive me. When somebody asks for that

00:43:47.440 forgiveness, my faith, I think is strong enough that I would, I could say yes, but they'll never

00:43:56.060 do that because they're, they're receiving their eternal reward now. So I don't know that I'll ever

00:44:03.740 know the answer because that forgiveness can't culminate in that way. It can only culminate of

00:44:09.800 my own assessment. Part of what hurts about what's going on in Afghanistan or what, what has happened

00:44:17.200 in the last three weeks is that while we may say that the war on terror is over with, that doesn't

00:44:24.260 mean our enemies think it's over. I am not prepared to forgive the culture that trained, deployed, financed,

00:44:32.020 and slaughtered in an act of war, not a crime, but an act of war. If you want to come after the United

00:44:42.400 States, yep, you can do that, but you're going to pay a big price for it. Forgiveness is my

00:44:49.700 responsibility. It is not my government's. So it's not just proper role and function of government

00:44:57.080 between federal government, state government, county, local governments. It's what are the,

00:45:03.700 the sword belongs to government. It does not belong to the church and it doesn't belong to me as an

00:45:08.120 individual. So when September 11th happens, I try to respond to it wearing a few different hats,

00:45:15.660 wearing the hat of a citizen, wearing the hat of a soldier, and wearing the hat of a believer.

00:45:20.000 What are those functions? What's the proper response? And had I not been injured that day

00:45:28.460 and had been deployed to Afghanistan or Iraq or anywhere else that my country may have sent me,

00:45:34.460 forgiveness isn't my duty. It is to bear the sword against those who would do evil, to protect you at

00:45:41.340 any cost and your freedoms, life, liberty, and the pursuit of all who threaten it kind of thing.

00:45:47.380 And so that's where people need to understand the difference between the functions,

00:45:53.280 function of family, function of government, function of the church. Remember in scripture,

00:45:58.640 Christ tells us that all things were created through him and all things he created. That isn't

00:46:03.780 just the things that are made up of the periodic table of the elements. It's the institutions of

00:46:09.180 marriage in Genesis came first, government came second, church came third. And each of those

00:46:14.400 institutions have their own unique functions. I think I can, I don't know, I can't, I cannot tell

00:46:20.920 you I have forgiven at this moment. I've affirmed and acknowledged the blessings that the Lord's given

00:46:27.920 me here. But the, what they may have done to me, I think someday I'll get there. I don't know that

00:46:40.060 I can forgive what they did to the country. But that's government's responsibility. Mine's for

00:46:48.000 what happened to me personally. I hope I wasn't long-winded there, but I'm being very brutally

00:46:56.880 honest with a brutally honest question.

00:46:58.800 Mm-hmm. That's really tough.

00:47:04.160 Because man, it's like what's happening in Afghanistan right now, you know, when the Taliban

00:47:10.160 tells us, you know, there'll be consequences if you're not out by August 31st. Like the response

00:47:16.860 should have been, yeah, there's going to be a lot of relish on your hot dog. If you jack with us,

00:47:21.060 we're going to be there longer than the 31st.

00:47:22.920 Yeah. Right. But we just kind of capitulated. Yeah. Yeah. And that's what makes, I think,

00:47:28.500 a lot of people worried. Even if we're not foreign policy experts, we know I'm talking about

00:47:33.600 we normal average citizens who have not served and I don't have a degree in foreign policy. But

00:47:40.140 one thing we understand is weakness. We understand capitulation. We understand what it looks like

00:47:44.000 to lose. And that's what a lot of people I think are embarrassed about right now when it

00:47:47.960 comes to Afghanistan and sad. You don't like to feel like even, I didn't vote for Joe Biden.

00:47:52.920 Obviously. But I was rooting for him. I was hoping, okay, well, you know, maybe he'll prove

00:47:58.420 us wrong. Maybe he will be the commander in chief that we want or that we need. Maybe he

00:48:03.440 will defend our interests. And it just kind of seems like this whole America last approach

00:48:07.960 is really bent on a weak America. And that makes me sad.

00:48:12.600 Yeah, it does. Because I, I, it doesn't mean that you can't have a conversation with whether

00:48:19.780 it's trade or, or other foreign policy things. But I did a, an interview on Fox two years ago at

00:48:29.040 the anniversary is not the right word, but 18th Memorial, the local Fox affiliate. And it was right

00:48:36.880 at the time that Trump was starting to talk, thinking about talking to the Taliban. And

00:48:43.780 I said, you know, I think the president's got it right. But I said, and I don't remember exactly

00:48:52.040 how I said it, Ali, but I, I said, what I most appreciate, because they just killed, um, uh,

00:48:58.780 Baghdadi, Soleimani was just a couple months later. And I said, I think the president's right. And

00:49:10.240 I'm prepared to trust him. Because it's finally great to have a president that cares more about

00:49:16.280 the lives of Americans than he does about the lives of our enemies.

00:49:20.100 Mm hmm. Mm hmm. And we're back to where we were. People that care more about not offending

00:49:32.580 somebody. Yeah. I mean, there were, there were so many people after September 11th, you know,

00:49:38.400 what have we done to offend them? What, why are they mad? I am not interested in learning

00:49:42.640 why you're mad. Yeah. I'm interested in you learning never to make us mad. Right.

00:49:48.480 Which is how it should be. And what people don't understand is that American strength is good for

00:49:55.900 the world. American weakness is not just bad for Americans. It's bad for the world, which is why

00:50:00.320 our allies are so. You look at what's happening right now in the geopolitical structure and

00:50:04.700 circumstances. India is an ally. Thailand is an ally. Australia, Taiwan. The Chinese have an

00:50:13.800 incredible amount of economic leverage. Mm hmm. Pakistan, it's very clear, is not an ally.

00:50:22.540 The ISI has been helping. I mean, just getting bin Laden in Pakistan, that should have been obvious

00:50:29.400 10 years ago. Pakistan is not an ally. China and Russia are about to recognize because the Taliban

00:50:37.400 wants recognition in the international community, Bagram was right smack in the middle of, you

00:50:44.380 know, not far from Russia, not far from China, not far from Pakistan. Um, we had a pretty stable,

00:50:55.420 it certainly wasn't Western Republican government, but it was a stable, relatively stable for what

00:51:02.120 we'd, what we had gotten into 20 years ago, relatively stable situation. And now India,

00:51:09.340 that's already had some clashes on its border with China now has Afghanistan, China, Pakistan

00:51:17.000 on its north and eastern borders, um, border disputes. The Chinese have an incredible amount

00:51:26.740 of leverage if they decide to, I mean, look at our logistics change. It isn't, it chains, it isn't just

00:51:34.180 China. Yeah. But it's, you know, uh, Vietnam, Vietnam is, I mean, I ought to tell you, even though they're

00:51:40.900 both communists, when Vietnam wants a better relationship with the United States is because they see the, uh, um,

00:51:49.960 threat, the threat of China and wanting a, a, uh, homogenous far East under their control. Yep. Um,

00:52:00.280 we don't walk around willy nilly looking for a fight, but when one comes, don't back up from it.

00:52:06.600 Right. That's what happened on September 11th because we'd been treating terrorism as a criminal act

00:52:13.120 for so many years up to, I mean, I, you know, the coal, the embassies, I mean, we can go down the

00:52:19.840 list all the way back to 73, but, um, I hurt for my country, but we've left the world, not just because

00:52:31.040 of, of, you said it great, you know, American weakness is bad for the world, but we've left a

00:52:39.120 critical part of the world with flashpoints in a much more dangerous position.

00:52:53.440 I think, um, gratitude is one way that we can honor those who have paid the ultimate price

00:53:01.280 for our freedom, especially this weekend. What are some other ways, um, that people can express

00:53:07.720 their gratitude and can honor what happened 20 years ago this Saturday, this weekend, and maybe

00:53:14.280 just, you know, throughout their lives. Yeah. You saw it a lot right after September 11th,

00:53:19.320 when you saw veterans or, or servicemen and women in airports and buying a meal, you know,

00:53:24.280 saying thank you. And in those regards of late, I've seen efforts about, uh, uh, going into cemeteries,

00:53:30.440 uh, and, uh, cleaning headstones because as they sit there and age over the, there's a,

00:53:36.360 and I don't want to make September 11th, simply a, a day of service to go build a house,

00:53:41.320 but a day of service to those who serve us. Um, because the, the three things that

00:53:49.160 the fire police and military as professions share that no other profession share is the tug of death

00:53:57.080 because of your sense of duty and the nature of your duties. Um, saying thank you to them.

00:54:04.280 That's always appreciated, whether it's a, whether it's something as simple as a meal in a restaurant

00:54:09.960 when the police officer comes in, um, wreaths at Veterans Day, Memorial Day, saying thank you,

00:54:18.040 because gratitude is one of the best virtues that we can have either individually or as a nation.

00:54:26.360 And how you choose to demonstrate that gratitude is up to you, but let it be a day of gratitude.

00:54:32.840 Yeah. There's a lot of young moms who listen to this podcast. And I think one thing that we can do

00:54:39.320 is that we can set an example for our kids. We can teach our kids from a very young age,

00:54:44.280 how exceptional, how rare, how unique and wonderful it is to live in this country. We can pass the torch

00:54:50.920 in, in that regard. And we have such a wonderful opportunity to be able to do that and to be free

00:54:56.760 to do that. Um, thank you so much for taking the time to tell your story. I am especially keen for

00:55:04.040 all of the youngins who don't remember 9-11. Now I, I remember, um, you know, it's, it's interesting.

00:55:10.360 I'm sure a lot of people can relate to this. I was in fourth grade.

00:55:13.080 It's in my fourth grade class. Gosh, you're making me feel old.

00:55:15.640 I know. I know. I was, uh, let's see nine. I guess I was nine years old. Uh, yeah. So,

00:55:22.280 but I, it's funny because I actually remember exactly what my teacher was wearing, black and

00:55:28.040 white pants and a black shirt. I remember she was up at the front of the classroom trying to

00:55:32.440 continue the lesson. And I remember she started crying and you know, when you're a kid and you see

00:55:37.320 an adult start crying, it's very off putting because you don't like to see your parents or adults upset.

00:55:41.720 Um, and we, our parents were told to pick us up early from school. They were given a letter. And

00:55:47.720 I remember my mom sitting in our kitchen or standing in our kitchen, reading this letter

00:55:52.920 to me and her saying, you know, we might have to leave Dallas because we didn't know. And we

00:55:57.400 were in a big city. We have to leave Dallas. And I don't even know where we would have gone. Um,

00:56:02.040 and so I remember, and it's kind of strange how in those moments, even though you don't have the

00:56:08.760 maturity to realize, wow, this is a moment in history, something catches in your brain that tells

00:56:14.120 you remember this. And I do. And I think there are a lot of people listening who are a little older,

00:56:18.680 a little younger who remember exactly where they were. And I think even if all you can do,

00:56:24.440 you've got a bunch of little kids running around, maybe you don't have time to go out and actually do

00:56:28.680 something formally the least that I think that we can do. Try to remember where you were in that

00:56:35.000 moment. Try to remember what started all of this. And like you said, be grateful, be grateful to the

00:56:41.160 Lord first and foremost for his provision, but also to everyone who has given their lives. And I'm

00:56:46.280 thankful to you, um, for the service that you've done for this country. And thank you so much for

00:56:52.120 sharing your story and sharing your faith as well. Thank you, Allie. My treat to be with you. It's been a

00:56:56.280 privilege. Thank you. All right, guys, I know you enjoyed that conversation. Uh, if you guys could

00:57:07.000 please do me a favor, it would mean so much to me. If you could go on Apple podcasts, if you love this

00:57:11.560 podcast, leave me a five-star review, just maybe a quick sentence or two about why you love relatable.

00:57:19.960 Also a reminder, we've got our 500th episode of relatable coming up. I can't believe that it's been

00:57:24.960 that many episodes. Thank you guys so much for listening and for watching as long as you have.

00:57:29.720 If you have any ideas for something special that I could do for y'all for the 500th episode or just

00:57:35.380 any fun ideas for what we could do to make that episode special, please let me know that's coming

00:57:40.320 up in just a few weeks. Thank you guys for listening. And I will see you back here on Monday.

Relatable with Allie Beth Stuckey - September 09, 2021

Ep 485 ｜ Can a 9⧸11 Survivor Forgive Al Qaeda？｜ Guest： Sen. Brian Birdwell

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