Relatable with Allie Beth Stuckey - September 27, 2021


Ep 495 ｜ The Truth About ‘Social Emotional Learning’ & What Your Kids Are Reading ｜ Guest： Sherry Clemens


Episode Stats

Length

1 hour and 8 minutes

Words per Minute

209.743

Word Count

14,290

Sentence Count

811

Misogynist Sentences

25

Hate Speech Sentences

13


Summary

Sherry Clemens of Richardson ISD in Texas went viral for her speech before the school board about a terribly pornographic book that was recommended to her 8th grade daughter. She's not the first mom to go viral with one of these speeches, and if you've been on social media, you've probably seen them all over. If you haven't, you're probably not a fan of this trend, because some moms are learning what their kids are learning in the library of junior high schools, and moms are speaking up about it.


Transcript

00:00:00.000 Hey guys, welcome to Relatable. Happy Monday. Hope everyone had a wonderful weekend. Today,
00:00:15.140 I've got a treat for you. I am talking to a mom, Sherry Clemens of Richardson ISD in Texas,
00:00:21.820 who went semi-viral for her speech before the school board about a terribly pornographic book
00:00:30.100 that was recommended to her eighth grade daughter. Before I give the rest of my introduction to this
00:00:35.880 conversation, I'll just go ahead and play you the speech that she gave before her school board.
00:00:41.200 Hello, Dr. Stone and school board. My name is Sherry Clemens. I have a daughter. You saw her
00:00:44.320 at North and three children at PCE. Tonight, you're discussing the RISD Accelerated Learning Plan. I'd
00:00:48.780 like to shed a light on the probable reason why RISD's star reading scores have been declining
00:00:51.860 since 2017. Warning, explicit content available right here. My daughter recently showed me a list
00:00:57.120 of eight books to choose from for book club given to her by her eighth grade GTELAR teacher because
00:01:01.340 she was concerned that one of them had a bad, bad language. This concerned me, so I spent over 10
00:01:05.580 hours investigating the books. I'm shocked. I'm sad. I'm furious. The strong language and sexual content
00:01:11.660 in seven of the 10 books is enough for any parent to be outraged. The F word is used over 30 times in
00:01:18.160 one book and over 40 in two others. Another book discusses in detail a gang rape of a boy in the
00:01:23.260 locker room at a school. Here's a quote from Everybody Sees the Ants. Then he grabbed the
00:01:27.520 shortest, scrawniest kid in the locker room and threw him in the corner bench. He had his friends
00:01:31.620 hold him down, take off his clothes, and blindfold him with smelly gym uniform. The more the kids
00:01:35.760 screamed and kicked, the more of Nader's minions helped to hold him down, legs open. I could see him
00:01:39.960 struggling against their hands, trying to bring his knees together. I could see him shaking,
00:01:43.080 breathing heavily, panicking, gagging. While the other boys chanted,
00:01:46.000 don't barf, pussy. Nader produced a banana from his gym locker, walked over to the toilets,
00:01:51.080 dipped it, and said, watch closely, Linderman, because this is what snitches get. There is
00:01:55.720 sexual content in seven out of the 10 books, one of them having 53 incidences of sex. Example
00:02:01.680 from Burn, Baby, Burn. Angel was my first experience with a guy, a fact that I try to forget daily.
00:02:06.620 One minute we were kissing in Angel's room, and a little while later he was driving me home,
00:02:10.160 my shirt buttoned wrong, and a wad of toilet paper in my underwear to catch the blood.
00:02:13.140 Lindsay Michalas, RISD director of ELAR, let me know there's no approved book list and teachers
00:02:17.920 are given full autonomy as to what books they select. How can every teacher be responsible
00:02:21.180 to know the appropriateness of every book? How is it my daughter could be reading books with
00:02:24.580 major profanity and sexual content that in the end she said because it was the goal of RISD to
00:02:28.860 reach all students? I demand better for my children. You focus on education. I would tell
00:02:34.100 you to stay in your lane, but guess what? You're not even in the right direction.
00:02:38.160 All right. So if you were disturbed by what she described, I don't blame you. I think
00:02:42.560 everyone was. Now imagine a 14-year-old being recommended that book by her teacher. So we're
00:02:48.980 going to talk to Sherry all about the battle that she is fighting with other moms for the
00:02:54.600 kids in this district. We're also going to talk about the choice of sending kids to public
00:02:58.700 school, knowing that this is the kind of stuff, unfortunately, that they are being recommended
00:03:03.160 and even requiring to read by some teachers across the country. We're talking about Texas.
00:03:09.100 We're not talking about a city that you might expect this to come from, a more liberal city.
00:03:15.080 We are talking about a fairly conservative area in the country assigning this kind of material,
00:03:20.360 or at least in this case, recommending this kind of material to minors. And Sherry Clemens,
00:03:26.540 of course, is not the first mom to go viral with one of these speeches. If you're on Twitter,
00:03:30.920 if you're on social media, you've probably seen this. This is a trend. Moms are learning what their
00:03:36.260 kids are reading. Some books in the library of junior high, of high schools, and moms are speaking
00:03:45.940 up and they're pushing back. And so I'll read you some headlines that just shows you that this is
00:03:49.960 something that is happening across the country. According to The Blaze, an angry mom reads, and let
00:03:57.620 me just say, before I read this headline, if you've got kids in the car, if you're listening with kids,
00:04:01.500 probably not a great episode to listen to with kids because some of the things that we're going to
00:04:05.920 say are pretty graphic. And one of the things that I'm about to read in this headline is graphic. So
00:04:11.620 there is your warning. So according to TheBlaze.com, angry mom reads anal sex passage from junior high
00:04:17.960 library book to school board. The mom's mic is cut off, but district pulls the book for review.
00:04:23.680 The article says Kara Bell, a local mom and former board member candidate, was livid during the school
00:04:29.180 board meeting last week over a middle school library book she deemed explicit. Take her out
00:04:33.840 back, we boys figured. Then, well, I can't even, I can't even read it. I can't even read it on
00:04:38.840 Relatable. I'll just say, she read a passage from this book that I can't even read because it is
00:04:44.440 talking about rape of a minor. Here's another headline from The Blaze. Watch, angry Virginia mom,
00:04:51.380 angry Virginia moms line up to read pornographic excerpts from books assigned to ninth graders.
00:04:59.240 A group of furious parents lined up before Virginia's Loudoun County school board this week
00:05:03.560 to read several pornographic passages from books assigned to ninth graders in the district
00:05:07.420 amid a recall effort against several members of several members of the board. And then the passage
00:05:14.540 that I, again, cannot read is a passage about domestic violence, about abusing a minor in a sexually
00:05:25.840 explicit way. Then there was this terrible story coming out of Hudson, Ohio, where the mayor actually
00:05:32.200 spoke up, according to The Blaze, to the school board about a book that included child pornography
00:05:39.920 and also an assignment, actually, that prompted students in high school to write out a sex scene
00:05:49.140 that they, quote, wouldn't want their mom to read. So this is happening across the country in a sexually
00:05:56.440 predatory way. Now, this is amidst other complaints that we are hearing from moms and dads about very
00:06:02.980 divisive, divisive lessons about race, about so-called diversity and inclusion that really
00:06:12.040 aren't about cultural appreciation or appreciating other people from different backgrounds, of different
00:06:18.080 skin colors, of different socioeconomic classes. It is pitting class against class. It's pitting white
00:06:24.040 against black, against Asian. It is demonizing American history, not just objectively looking at the
00:06:30.040 good, the bad, and the ugly of American history. And parents are upset, rightfully upset. Now, on this
00:06:37.020 podcast, obviously, we talk a lot about some of the dangers of public school, and we'll get into that
00:06:41.880 in this conversation. We're certainly not going to ignore that in what I, in my opinion, is the important
00:06:47.980 step to take to actually remove our children from these institutions. And so if that's what you're
00:06:52.320 wondering, yes, we will cover that. But now I want to have this conversation with this mom who's going to
00:06:57.360 give us all the details, also give you some encouragement and some instruction at the end
00:07:01.540 if you are a parent who finds yourself in this same kind of troubling predicament. So without further
00:07:06.720 ado, here is Sherry Clements. Sherry, thank you so much for joining us. Can you give us a little bit
00:07:17.660 of context? We already listened to your speech. What was going on that led up to that? Okay. So gosh,
00:07:25.300 three weeks ago, my daughter comes, my eighth grade daughter, she's G-T-E-L-A-R, so gifted and talented
00:07:30.780 language arts class, you know, high kids, high, you know, performing kids are in this class. And she comes
00:07:36.660 home with a list of books for a book club, and it wasn't optional. It was a recommend, we had to do the
00:07:41.500 book club with her class, and there was going to be assignments attached to it. And I didn't think much about
00:07:47.220 it. She said, Mom, there's four on the list that have a permission slip with them. I'm not even going to look at
00:07:52.900 those. One was about adoption, and we have adopted kids. So I think she was kind of drawn to that one,
00:07:57.320 but then she realized it had permission slip, and she just didn't even want to go there.
00:08:00.280 So there were 10 books on the list, and the four books that came with permission slip,
00:08:04.820 what does that mean? Like, they're a little bit more mature, and the parents have to sign off on it?
00:08:08.700 That's what I assumed, right? I assumed that it was, they were just a little more mature,
00:08:12.800 maybe some hot topics, things like that. We've had this teacher for a year, and I kind of know
00:08:17.880 her belief system. And so in my head, I'm assuming that there's probably some topics that would be
00:08:23.520 kind of off limits for Chloe. And she's very wise, Chloe is, and so she would know kind of
00:08:29.720 what to pick and what not to pick without me even being involved. That's just who she is. She comes
00:08:34.260 to me with everything, so I could trust her with picking that, you know, a book. And so she picked
00:08:38.380 a book, and she said, you know, I already read the author, and I know it's a good book. And we moved on,
00:08:42.000 so I didn't think about it. Until the next week, she comes home, and it's late at nine,
00:08:45.160 and she's going to bed, and she's like, you know, Mom, I'm really worried today. My friend
00:08:48.920 went up to the teacher because she's concerned that her book had so many F words in it. And I was
00:08:55.120 just like, so many F words, you know? And so in my head, I'm thinking the permission slip to me
00:08:59.700 was like maybe one or two, or like we had to sign a permission slip last year in the same class because
00:09:04.380 she wanted the kids to watch a movie, Freedom Riders, and it had a bad language in it. And so in my head,
00:09:11.060 I'm thinking, oh, it had a couple or something like that. So when she came to me worried,
00:09:14.660 you know, and the teacher just had said something to the effect of, well, this is how
00:09:18.420 these people talk, and so you need to be immersed in their culture to understand where they're coming
00:09:23.360 from. And that was kind of her response to the student. And so I just started Googling a little
00:09:29.660 bit. And I wrote down all the titles of all 10 books, Let Chloe Go to Bed, and I Googled like
00:09:36.860 three, and I couldn't believe it. And what were those books? First, what was the book,
00:09:41.000 if you remember, with all of the F words in it? And that was not a permission slip one,
00:09:45.500 and it was called All American Boys. All American Boys. So that had a bunch of F words in it.
00:09:49.800 Yeah. That didn't even come with a permission slip. So this student just picked the book thinking,
00:09:54.140 whatever. It's got to be. It looks good. And so when she went to the teacher with concern,
00:09:58.340 the teacher said, well, that's cultural. Yes. Got it. Okay. Yes. Yes. Okay. And then another book
00:10:04.080 that wasn't a permission slip was called Every Day. And it is a- It was not permission slip.
00:10:08.720 Not permission slip. It was a movie. I don't know if the book or movie came first, but I had heard
00:10:13.080 about the movie last year because my daughter came downstairs very upset. It was during virtual
00:10:18.560 school at the beginning of the year, and she came downstairs crying. And I said, you know,
00:10:21.760 what's going on? And she said, well, in my English language arts class, I had to watch this video
00:10:27.140 that was very upsetting to me. And it was a preview for this movie called Every Day. And I haven't watched
00:10:32.520 the movie. I have watched the preview. It seems to be about a character who wakes up every day a
00:10:38.140 different person. So one day they're a boy. One day they're a girl. Sometimes they're Asian. Sometimes
00:10:42.660 they're, you know, and so it's- And then they have relationships with same sex, with opposite sex.
00:10:50.160 And so in the video, two girls kiss in the video. And my daughter, we are, you know, we have a strong
00:10:56.800 family faith and biblical values. And that's something that we haven't exposed her to yet. Have we
00:11:01.980 talked about sexuality a ton? Yes. Have we had so many conversations and really trying to educate
00:11:09.560 her on that? Yes. But anyway, so she was shocked that she had to watch that at school. So we already
00:11:13.400 had a conversation with the teacher about our beliefs. And so anyway, so then I saw that book
00:11:17.820 on the list, and it was just like, okay, well, I know that this one. So I started reading it, and it's
00:11:22.400 the one that had the word sex or a reference to sex 53 times. Wow. And so those two alone,
00:11:28.200 without permission slip, I was so upset, you know? And so the next morning, I emailed the
00:11:35.000 teacher. And it was very nice. My email just said, you know, dear teacher, I'm concerned about
00:11:40.800 the books that I found in the book club. I gave her a couple of quotes. One was one of the quotes
00:11:44.760 that I had found, not the gang rape one, but the second one that I read on the video. It was in there
00:11:51.240 and just asked really some, I tried to ask some very open-ended questions. You know,
00:11:56.980 what are you going to be teaching from these as far as the text? The text is essential knowledge
00:12:00.480 and skills is what she's supposed to be teaching. So what are you teaching from these texts? You
00:12:04.200 know, what kind of activities is my daughter going to see from these that maybe would expose her to
00:12:09.220 things that I'm not ready for? So is there going to be a presentation where she's listening to other
00:12:13.080 kids and their perspectives on something that they read? And then could there be other books
00:12:18.380 instead that could, that could do the same lesson without so much kind of controversial hot topics.
00:12:24.620 And I didn't get a reply from her, which was surprising because we, I felt like we had a
00:12:28.600 very good back and forth relationship last year. But she had forwarded it to the principal. So I got
00:12:34.560 an email back from the principal just that just said, I've got your concerns and I forwarded them on
00:12:38.440 to the district. And so it was this girl, Lindsay Macaless, she's the director of ELAR, I think third
00:12:44.840 through 12th grade. And so the next morning, or I guess that next, anyway, I don't, the timeline is
00:12:50.720 off, but a couple of days later, she reached out to us and my husband was home working from home
00:12:55.300 that day. So we got on speakerphone and just visited with her for about an hour and, you know,
00:12:59.760 told, she had read the quotes that I'd sent the teacher. And this is before I had read all the
00:13:03.740 books. And so this was before maybe the most graphic scene that we heard you saying, which I just
00:13:09.700 can't imagine, but yes, yes. And, and I had given her all the book titles. So Lindsay had all the
00:13:14.420 book titles in that email, um, and told her, you know, that there was profanity and there was sexual
00:13:19.840 content. And, and I was just surprised that this would be on a book list for Richardson ISD for eighth
00:13:26.300 graders. And then she told me that there's no book list. So RISD doesn't have a formal book list at
00:13:32.580 all. So teachers literally, she said they can choose any book they want. Okay. And now this was a teacher
00:13:38.680 issue. This teacher just decided, these are the 10 books that I want my kids to read. Yes. Yes. And,
00:13:45.060 and that was really surprising to me. And, and, you know, we, we had a lot of great conversation.
00:13:49.580 I appreciated her phone call. It was very, you know, no one was mad or anything. It was very,
00:13:54.260 um, we, I feel like we, we both mutually respect each other's position and learned a lot. And,
00:13:59.440 you know, she said a few things like, you know, we're trying to reach 37,000 students. This is a way
00:14:04.000 to reach them. And at the time, what is a, what's a way to reach them? I guess what reading these,
00:14:10.020 these stories that have characters that they identify with, that that makes them feel more
00:14:15.620 known. And one of them was, you know, if that, that second one that I read, you know, you could
00:14:19.480 read it as either a rape scene or just a girl's first time. And that's how I had kind of read it.
00:14:25.560 And, you know, I, so she, she, I guess thought it more was a rape scene. And anyway, she said,
00:14:29.900 well, what about the girls that have been raped? You know, they, they identify with that.
00:14:34.860 And to me, you're talking about the scene that you described in the speech.
00:14:38.320 Yes. The second one, the one, the one about the girl that gets into the car with the button
00:14:42.540 shirt and, you know, and, and she says, you know, if a girl that had been raped,
00:14:48.380 that's a student at RISD had read that she might identify with that. And to me, I just would question
00:14:53.200 that as far as mentally, I have a, I have a kid that has some trauma background, right?
00:14:58.040 So opening up that kind of wound in that kind of situation, who knows what that would provide
00:15:03.000 for that kid? Would it be comforting for them? I don't know.
00:15:06.060 And who says that the most important thing for a child's emotional and intellectual development
00:15:10.860 is identifying with characters, not necessarily, especially when it comes to trauma.
00:15:16.040 Right.
00:15:16.740 And so, but I could kind of see how this whole mentality that we have, that representation in
00:15:22.480 every single aspect of someone's life is the most important aspect of education could lead
00:15:27.880 to that kind of, that kind of thinking, but I don't see how it adds to the benefit of
00:15:35.560 a child's development at all. That's so strange.
00:15:37.900 Yes, exactly. That was our question, you know, and, and I had mentioned, so, you know, Chloe
00:15:42.580 has a friend in Frisco that, that just is the same grade, eighth grade and it's GT. And
00:15:46.920 he learned, he just memorized Sonnet 29 by Shakespeare and he's reading Robinson Crusoe. And so I asked
00:15:52.540 her that, like, why aren't we reading some of these things? And why aren't we learning?
00:15:55.780 And, and her response was really twofold. One, you know, RISD academically, we're not
00:16:01.860 where we need to be. And so we've got to get, get, got to get kids just roped into reading
00:16:06.600 by offering these books. I mean, she said that and my husband said, you're talking about
00:16:12.160 a G-T-E-L-A-R pre-AP class. This is the, the, you know, the, the kids that really should
00:16:18.520 be reading like higher level. Yeah. At least eighth grade level. At least eighth grade
00:16:22.560 level. And so, you know, we start, I start thinking about like SATs. I mean, she's not
00:16:26.340 that far away. And, and if we're reading a book that has the F word, I mean, she's not,
00:16:30.460 but other students are, and I'm fighting not just for my daughter, I'm fighting for all
00:16:33.760 the kids reading a book with the F word 50 times. And, and yet there's these, you know,
00:16:38.360 a sonnet out there with this, this complex syntax and these, this, the vocabulary that I know
00:16:43.220 is what's going to be on the SAT. And I know what's going to get her a better college entrance,
00:16:47.420 entrance exams, you know, scores and things like that. And, and, and so it, it just doesn't quite
00:16:52.340 make, it doesn't quite make sense to me. And, and, you know, so that was disappointing. And then
00:16:55.940 when I mentioned the classics, she said, you know, there's talk that classics are romanticized and
00:17:01.060 that there, a lot of them are one-sided and that was. Now, what does she mean by that? I don't
00:17:05.500 really know. I mean, I'm assuming that she means that they only tell one side. Yeah. And male
00:17:10.280 patriarchal maybe. Yes. And so, and, and, you know, my argument back was, well, if these other
00:17:15.100 books are telling one side, shouldn't some of the classics be included to tell another side? And
00:17:19.440 there's a, there's a rule in the RISD rule, um, like this, I can't remember if it's a student rule
00:17:24.560 book. I don't have the exact thing, but it was a rule in RISD that talks about when you bring up
00:17:28.780 controversial topics in a classroom, here's the things you have to do as a teacher. And one of them
00:17:34.120 was to provide, um, all sides of the story. And so, uh, you know, if, if only one side is presented,
00:17:40.880 you need to make sure the other side is presented also. And so that's where I told her, you know,
00:17:44.640 I, I, it's just the profanity and the sexual content alone is enough for me to be furious.
00:17:48.780 Right. And this is before I even found the worst stuff, but, um, and I was still already upset,
00:17:52.700 but, but the, the other side of this is that seven of the 10 books, as I get my, got my research
00:17:57.920 going, were, were, um, left-wing ideology. They really are. There's a homosexuality. There's a lot
00:18:03.480 about, um, gender identity, which I think is a huge hot topic, um, right now and, and scary for
00:18:09.400 our girls to be, to be exposed to. And so, so anyway, so that, the conversation ended with like
00:18:14.620 two main takeaways and the takeaways were we should have permission slips for everything. Um, if we're
00:18:20.140 going to have permission, like, because I think she realized that those two that didn't have a
00:18:23.160 permission slip, at least the one that had the 50 or 40 F words might've been a good idea to have
00:18:27.480 a permission slip on that one. And, um, so, you know, she, and then, and, and, um, so, and as I was
00:18:32.400 thinking about that in my head, I'm thinking, okay, but not just a yes, no permission slip.
00:18:35.760 And even not just a, um, here's a synopsis, which is, I think what they got, I'm, I'm not sure.
00:18:41.180 Cause I still haven't talked to the teacher as of today. Um, but what I think they got is like a
00:18:45.300 synopsis of, of the, the book, um, that maybe said what it's about. And then the parent had to sign it,
00:18:51.420 but it didn't say it's, it has graphic details. It has the F word for, you know,
00:18:56.300 They should have to say, which I think would probably inhibit them from assigning or recommending
00:19:00.900 those books in the first place. If they had to lay out for the parents in, uh, you know,
00:19:06.480 verbally say explicitly say, okay, here are the troublesome or the potentially controversial parts
00:19:12.560 of this book. Here's the language that it uses here, the scenes that it depicts that in itself
00:19:18.600 would probably stop a teacher from assigning some of those books because they would have to explain
00:19:24.000 something like you depicted in your speech.
00:19:26.720 Yes, exactly. And I know two friends personally in that class that are, that, that believe the way
00:19:32.400 we believe, uh, biblically and they signed a permission slip and it's because they trusted
00:19:38.800 their, their teacher, the teacher to give a overview of the book in a way that their child
00:19:45.460 felt comfortable. And like, you know, when they approached their mom, I think one of them said
00:19:49.700 like, you know, I want to learn about this topic. Um, and she just said, okay. And, and, and she feels
00:19:54.460 so bad, you know, that she said that it's not her, to me, it's not her fault. Like I've got four kids.
00:19:59.200 I sign permission slips all the time. I think that there, I think so many parents were outraged
00:20:03.360 after my, my speech because they trust teachers to take care of their kids.
00:20:08.800 Well, and we're told to trust teachers. We're told to trust teachers. And I think a lot of teachers
00:20:12.900 are trustworthy. Certainly. And I know that you believe that too, but I think we're realizing,
00:20:17.900 especially today is that, um, there really is no neutrality and that we can't necessarily trust
00:20:24.700 institutions the way that we once trusted them. And that doesn't mean that everyone within those
00:20:29.120 institutions is untrustworthy, but we can't take anything for granted anymore.
00:20:33.500 Yeah, it's for sure. And that's what, I mean, I was a teacher for six years. I, I, my sister's in
00:20:38.380 education. My mom was in education. I, I fully love public school, but I do think there,
00:20:44.460 there is a, a, you know, a feeling that we are to trust all teachers. And yes, I, there's so many
00:20:52.320 good teachers out there. And that's, what's disappointing is that, that I think we, we just
00:20:57.100 teach parents just don't always know. And then those are the parents that are educated, that spend
00:21:02.920 so much time talking. These are great parents that spend so much time talking to their kids.
00:21:06.600 Then I wonder who signed it that literally never even talks to their kids about anything
00:21:11.180 or maybe doesn't speak our language. I mean, it was only in English.
00:21:14.260 And I have no idea because I haven't talked to the teacher. Maybe there's no other speaking
00:21:17.240 languages in that classroom. I don't know. But, but it is what I wonder, like, was it really fair
00:21:23.080 to put a permission slip out there that wasn't fully detailing what was happening? And because
00:21:29.280 I know that I could have 100% signed something without, and that's, and that's my, I mean,
00:21:34.520 as a parent, you know, I know there's, there's people out there going to say, well, parents
00:21:37.200 aren't doing their job. And, and it's, and it's true. And I think that I'm, that's one of
00:21:41.860 my goals is, is wake. I only have been fighting this battle, this whole school battle for about
00:21:45.940 a month. And my kids have been in school for eight years and your nine years. And I, I
00:21:50.680 think that that's, we are going to have to realize that, that yes, there's great teachers,
00:21:55.040 but we have to step in and, and really understand what our, you know, kids are really dealing
00:22:00.520 with on a daily basis. I want to talk a little bit. Well, I will talk because I know some people
00:22:11.280 are wondering, we talk a lot about public schools and public education on this podcast. And so I'm
00:22:15.100 going to ask you about that and the decisions that you guys made for your kids. Cause I know
00:22:19.900 some people are curious about that, but I do, even before we move into some of the other things that
00:22:24.460 we're going to talk about, I want to, I want to hear what happened when you saw or read, um, the
00:22:31.500 particular part of a book that you talked about in your speech, the very graphic gang rape scene
00:22:39.520 in a locker room. How did you stumble upon that? What was your reaction? Is that really what the
00:22:45.220 impetus was that led you to make that speech? Yes. So, uh, that weekend, I still hadn't heard back
00:22:50.620 from the teacher about finding a time to meet. That was my next request was again, can we please
00:22:54.940 meet? I did not getting full answers from the district. So I'd love to meet with you again.
00:22:58.700 Um, she, she didn't get back to me on a timer date. And so I just really felt compelled to start
00:23:04.500 looking deeper into these books. I don't really know what prompted me. I just wanted to know
00:23:09.120 if that was all there was. And so I had to buy the books. Um, and then thankfully there's a search,
00:23:14.860 you know, bar where I can search for terms. And, and the one that I, the worst one was
00:23:20.180 everybody sees the ants. And, and I got, I pretty much read the whole book that night because
00:23:24.780 the very first, uh, chapter is all about suicide. It's a, a young boy and he, he has a prompt at
00:23:34.280 school that some, or he gets to choose a prompt for school writing assignment. And it says, if you
00:23:39.200 were to commit suicide, how would you do it? And it is probably, that book probably has, I don't know,
00:23:43.680 I don't want to exaggerate at least 30 ways to commit suicide, different ideas. And it was shocking
00:23:48.700 to me because we, like, like my son who's in sixth grade has a suicide prevention class next week.
00:23:55.440 The counselors this week on, on Wednesday, the counselors are coming to the classrooms and are
00:23:58.620 teaching them about suicide prevention. And, and then yet we have a book that's literally telling
00:24:03.820 you ideas on how to commit suicide. It was shocking. So I'm reading this book and, and, and it's, it's,
00:24:09.560 I don't, I'm speechless. It's, it's, it's crazy. So, so I start reading this book and it's a,
00:24:14.900 it's just a very disturbing, disturbing book. It's for, for an adult, for me at 41 years old,
00:24:21.780 it was content that was, that I was disturbed by before I even got to the rape scene. And then
00:24:26.720 my husband happened to be in the room when I got to that scene. And I just had tears in my eyes
00:24:30.560 because I think about my son who's in sixth grade and thinking about him in a middle school locker
00:24:35.680 room. Like you, you, you have a picture and that's the thing too is, you know, I know that,
00:24:39.840 that it's, it's just reading material and not a video that they are exposed to,
00:24:43.740 but you put your own video in your mind. Like that's what you're doing is, is creating a picture.
00:24:47.880 And so I have that picture in my mind now. And that, that thinking that my, that the kids in
00:24:52.520 Chloe's class could have that picture in their minds is, is, is, is just so sad.
00:24:57.340 And that kind of stuff sticks with you, even as an adult, if you see or hear about disturbing content,
00:25:02.040 whether it's sexually disturbing content or other kinds of disturbing content, like you don't,
00:25:06.520 you don't want those things in your mind because they haunt you when you're falling asleep at night.
00:25:10.340 And you're like, you know, if you watch the news and you see something that is terribly
00:25:14.160 violent or scary, that can really stick with you and haunt you. And I imagine for a child whose
00:25:20.360 brain is still developing and they're still learning about this stuff. God made their brains to be able
00:25:24.460 to retain information and retain new things that they're learning to put that in their mind,
00:25:30.860 ways to commit suicide. Who wants that to pop back into their kid's head when they're 16 and
00:25:36.680 insecure and they haven't been invited to a party and they're struggling with cyber bullying and
00:25:40.840 things like that. Uh, who wants a kid to be imagining gang rape, um, when they fall asleep
00:25:47.420 at night? Yeah. Yeah. It's, it was just shocking. So shocking. So, I mean, of course how mama bear
00:25:52.600 came out, I was mad at that point. And you know, the question is, you know, well, your, your kid
00:25:56.700 didn't have to read that book. It doesn't matter. It was in the hands of children. There were four kids
00:26:01.820 that I think, I mean, this is not confirmed, but what Chloe thinks is there were four kids that had
00:26:05.460 that book? Yeah. So four kids are reading this and their parents don't know their parents. There's
00:26:09.520 no way their parents know. Maybe they do, but I have to assume they probably don't. And it doesn't
00:26:13.140 matter. Even if it were zero kids, a teacher recommended that book specifically. Did it come
00:26:18.380 with a permission slip? It came with a permission slip. Not that that I think helped it, but still.
00:26:21.960 But it did come with a permission slip. So the next morning I am trying to calmly figure out what
00:26:26.880 to do without just going up to the school and, you know, causing a crazy scene. Oh yeah. That's what I
00:26:31.300 want to do. Just bust down the door. Like what is happening? So I emailed the principal and asked
00:26:35.900 if I could come in and meet with him. And he had just, I mean, and I know his, he's so busy and I
00:26:40.160 totally understand and respect his time. So we just had a few minutes together, went into his office
00:26:44.200 and I, my questions, my first question was one, you know, why won't she meet with me? I would love to
00:26:48.940 discuss this with her. I'm, it's not resolved yet. And he said that they're trying to work on a time.
00:26:53.280 They're just, he, he needs to be there. So they're trying to work out a time. Um, the second,
00:26:57.300 my second point was, um, okay, I'm, I'm probably going to speak tonight at the board meeting and
00:27:01.800 I'm probably going to say some of this, this, these quotes that I found last night that are
00:27:04.980 really disturbing. Um, and I, I didn't get any pushback from him. He didn't, he didn't, he,
00:27:10.060 he didn't really say anything. I think he said, okay. Like he, he, he didn't really have a response
00:27:14.200 to that. And, and so I didn't, I didn't know what else to do. I, I felt at that point that I'm not
00:27:21.040 being heard by the teacher. I'm not really being heard by the district. The district now has a list
00:27:25.600 of these specific books and no district member person has researched these like I have to, and
00:27:31.820 determined that they're inappropriate and nobody knows about this parent. Parents don't know, you
00:27:36.760 know, and, and I'm worried from our kids and I want this to be exposed at this point. And, and that
00:27:41.940 is in part because, um, and we'll probably talk about this later, but the, the social emotional
00:27:46.700 learning curriculum that's been kind of, um, put in our, our schools this year, um, and adopted into
00:27:53.520 our classrooms is controversial. And so I, I've already been kind of on high alert about,
00:27:58.860 about just topics being, um, exposed, our kids being exposed to topics and ideologies that,
00:28:05.760 that we don't necessarily believe in or want, um, exposure at school. It's something we want
00:28:10.120 to talk about at home. And so, you know, obviously the, the sexual content and the, and the, and
00:28:14.580 the profanity alone were enough for me to be upset. And, but then also there are seven of
00:28:19.540 10 books have this left wing ideology. And so it was a, it was, it's a big concern for
00:28:23.800 me, but so anyway, so then, then the board meeting happened and, um, you know, I, I
00:28:30.700 wanted, I don't think that our board knows a lot of what's going on in our schools, uh,
00:28:36.440 based on the questions that they were asking that evening after the parents comments, they
00:28:40.700 didn't know a lot. And so I'm thankful that I feel like hopefully this was a good step in
00:28:45.760 the right direction of, of opening their eyes. And, and, um, and, and then all the parents,
00:28:50.800 obviously, I mean, I, you know, so many parents, and I think that's something we can all agree on
00:28:54.360 whether we are left or right, you know, that this profanity and this, this sexual content
00:28:58.700 is inappropriate. And so there, that was a good way for us to come together on something,
00:29:02.860 I think, and, and, and be united and saying, you know, we want better, you know, for our kids.
00:29:07.100 Yeah. And, um, and so then the next day, um, I didn't hear from anybody from the district,
00:29:12.800 which just as on a personal note was really disappointing to not hear one person, not the
00:29:17.620 principal, not a, somebody up higher, not the teacher, no one saying, you know, let's talk about
00:29:22.860 this. Uh, you know, thank you for your sharing your concerns, not, not even you were right or
00:29:27.120 anything like that. Just a acknowledgement. Well, I imagine that they're embarrassed. It's kind of
00:29:31.580 like when a child knows that they did something wrong and they don't want to apologize to their
00:29:36.920 sibling because it's humiliating to do that. Yeah. I know that these are a bunch of grown adults
00:29:42.080 that we're talking about, but it's hard for me to see any other reason why the teacher won't meet
00:29:46.880 with you, um, except for embarrassment. I mean, that's really embarrassing to be an adult who
00:29:52.480 reads a book who I guess read the book that you're describing, especially the one with suicide and
00:29:56.900 gang rape of a child. Um, and then to say, yeah, you know, I thought that this was probably be good
00:30:02.180 for my 14 year old students. That's really embarrassing for her. Yeah, I, I agree. And, um, and so that,
00:30:08.020 that evening the principal did email the GT parents of that class and said that book, book, uh, clubs
00:30:13.900 would be paused, uh, momentarily. And, um, if you would like your child to stop reading the book that
00:30:19.660 they have been given, you need to let the teacher know. And, and that's, that was basically what it
00:30:24.720 said. I think it, that email also did say that RISD has, has decided that some of the content was
00:30:30.880 inappropriate for junior high kids. That it did say that. And, and then, so they'd be pausing book
00:30:35.080 clubs and that was kind of it. And then the next day, a big statement came out from Richardson ISD
00:30:40.180 and in it, it talked about, um, basically the vetting process that they have and kind of the
00:30:47.200 different ways teachers can, can get books into their classroom and put them into the kids' hands.
00:30:52.680 And one of them, you know, was teacher, teacher choice. And they admitted there that, that, that
00:30:59.820 they did also find that some of these books had inappropriate content for junior high students
00:31:04.020 and they would be relooking at their vetting process. And so that's a win, right?
00:31:08.340 Maybe they should relook at their vetting process for their teachers. I mean, I personally,
00:31:13.080 I don't know who the teacher is. I'm not asking for that identity. I just think that that is such
00:31:17.580 an easily fireable offense. I, I agree. I, I agree. Especially when, um, this isn't the first time
00:31:24.400 we've had these, these instances come up and, uh, you know, on the last, the Thursday conversation
00:31:30.420 with the district, she specifically said, there is no teacher in RISD that has an agenda. And I said,
00:31:38.160 there is no way that she doesn't have an agenda. She has a black lives matter and a pride flag
00:31:44.120 sticker on her board. She wears a black or a fist on her, like on her label, on her whatever shirt
00:31:51.880 every day. Um, so to me, when you do that and then you talk about things like the Trump rally or the
00:31:58.520 Trump riots the next day in class, in an English class for the entire class, and you show slides
00:32:04.100 that are definitely one-sided on left and right ideology, it, in, um, in, you know, what medias
00:32:11.060 are biased and CNN's in the middle, um, it's not biased. Um, it's hard for me to not think there's an
00:32:15.960 agenda there. And so there's all these, and, and so, and, and, and again, and maybe this is when we talk
00:32:21.280 about this, we're in public school for a reason. We want our kids to, um, to have experiences in
00:32:28.140 real world. And, and some people are going to agree with that. And a lot of people are going
00:32:31.820 to disagree with that. I, I, I think too, I have a lot of faith in the public school that I'm starting
00:32:37.480 to realize maybe shouldn't be there. Yeah. And I think for so long, we're in a sweet little
00:32:42.000 elementary school with all of our neighborhood friends and our principals, this grandpa, amazing
00:32:47.460 guy. And, and it's just really sweet. And so I think that I was, was naive in, in thinking that
00:32:54.320 it wasn't going to get harder. And then we got the teacher we got last year and I realized immediately
00:32:59.300 it was going to get harder. And, um, and then all this SEL stuff that's come out and, and it's,
00:33:05.220 you know, I don't know. I, I, I, we are, our initial decision in sending our kids there was
00:33:12.040 out of wanting them to be exposed to other ideas and other kids and, and diversity and all these
00:33:18.760 things. And then we would come back home and talk about these things at home and address them at
00:33:22.920 home and, and, um, help them walk through real world, you know, problems with us, not knowing we
00:33:30.400 were going to be exposed to this degree. You know, I thought we were going to be exposed to just
00:33:33.760 different, different, you know, political ideas and like different forms of faith. And yeah. And I'll
00:33:39.320 just give my opinion on that. And I hope this doesn't come across as criticism because it,
00:33:43.700 you know, it represents a lot of people who, uh, listen to this podcast and watch this podcast.
00:33:48.680 We talk a lot about, um, and this isn't necessarily a problem in Texas, but a little bit, the, the
00:33:54.960 teachers association is basically the same thing as teachers unions, the corruption of the teachers
00:33:58.360 unions, teachers with agendas and things like that. And how sending your kids to private school or
00:34:03.440 even private Christian school is not necessarily a guarantee that they are going to be free of this
00:34:08.640 kind of agenda and the bad kinds of indoctrination. Um, but we do talk about how, especially nowadays,
00:34:15.760 sending your kids, especially to public school is sending them to the front lines sometimes, um,
00:34:22.460 before they're actually, you know, big enough to pick up their proverbial shield before they're even
00:34:27.840 big enough to defend themselves against these ideas. And it's very difficult. I think if you've got a
00:34:33.260 child who is learning eight hours a day, a worldview that is not neutral, but is specifically
00:34:39.100 contradictory to a biblical worldview, and then just to hope for a couple hours at night after
00:34:43.420 they're done with their homework to contradict that it's really hard and it just doesn't always
00:34:48.180 happen. And so we've talked a lot about how really there is no neutral ground anymore.
00:34:54.040 Either our kids are learning from a biblical worldview and we're deciding, okay, this is how we're going
00:34:59.260 to talk to you about sexuality. This is how we're going to talk to you about gender. This is how we're
00:35:04.000 going to talk to you about suicide. Um, because what you're talking about is not that you desire
00:35:08.480 to insulate your kids from all of those things, but that you are hoping to be able to choose how and
00:35:14.660 when. And, and that's what I think is important. And today it seems almost impossible for parents to
00:35:21.300 get out ahead of what the public schools are going to teach them when and how they're going to teach
00:35:26.460 them. And so that's why I do typically encourage say, okay, well, I think it's so important to speak
00:35:31.840 up at school board meetings, whether or not your kids go to public school. I think maybe it's time
00:35:36.640 for some parents to think about, should my kids even be in these institutions in the first place?
00:35:41.400 Yeah. And that's really hard. That's really hard for a lot of parents to make that decision.
00:35:44.880 Yes. And you know, we, we have always said a year by year from the beginning, you know,
00:35:49.080 we're going to take it one year at a time and see where we're supposed to be. And so we're still
00:35:52.640 taking it one year at a time. And, you know, I guess one of my biggest fears of leaving, and I,
00:35:57.260 and I mean, I can give you 20 names of families that I know that I'm very close to that have all
00:36:02.260 left the public school, all at Richardson, they have great houses around us. And, and it's still
00:36:07.120 this community that's supposed to be so sweet, but yet they had to pull out because of, of belief
00:36:11.060 systems and, and, and just agreeing with just what you're saying, you know, agreeing with what
00:36:15.200 you're saying about pulling them out. Yeah. And, you know, my biggest fear is, and, and this may be a
00:36:19.720 reality already. And maybe I'm just now learning this, but my biggest fear is that if, if all
00:36:25.680 Christians leave the public school, then the public school then becomes 100%, um, indoctrination
00:36:33.620 on their, on what they want to the agenda they want. And so then in 10 years, you've got a whole
00:36:37.620 decade of kids, a whole generation of kids that have only, you know, um, they're only hearing one
00:36:44.000 side. And, and, and so that's, you know, and instead of me fighting and saying, okay, no, I'm taking
00:36:48.560 these books out of these kids' hands, these kids' hands through fighting, that's at least
00:36:52.560 helping some kids maybe not be exposed to as much. So, but there's a fine line and we're
00:36:57.140 not, we're not sure. I mean, every, every, and I think, you know, selfishly, maybe I'm
00:37:02.500 the only one that feels this way, but part of our reasoning too is, is what we had, you
00:37:06.980 know, I had a public education and I had the Friday night lights and I had all the experiences
00:37:12.240 in school sports. And, and, and that sounds like a really silly, selfish reason to want your
00:37:18.280 kids to go to public school, but it is this, like, you think this Texas, this is what we
00:37:22.620 grew up with. And so that's what we think we're going to give our kids. And we're realizing
00:37:26.360 it's just not the same anymore. And, um, and so anyway, that's, that's, that's kind of how
00:37:32.320 we, we landed where we are. And again, who knows what we'll end up doing.
00:37:41.300 Tell me a little bit more. I mean, there's a lot of things that a lot of parents had complaints
00:37:44.800 about in the school board meeting. Um, one of them was masks, which maybe we'll get
00:37:50.060 to, but another thing that I heard some parents talking about, um, was this social emotional
00:37:55.240 learning. And a lot of people have reached out to me about this. I haven't covered it
00:37:59.780 specifically on my show because I just haven't looked into it. And then some teachers who
00:38:04.140 follow me say, you know, it's really not so bad. It's really, you know, it might even
00:38:08.480 be productive for kids to kind of learn this. And then I have a lot of parents and teachers
00:38:13.400 who say social emotional learning is not social emotional learning. It's really just
00:38:18.060 more, um, pushing a progressive agenda in the name of empathy and inclusion and things
00:38:26.740 like that. So what is it from your experience and kind of what's your take on it?
00:38:30.940 Yeah. So I didn't even know what SCL meant until about a month ago. Um, I had heard, so,
00:38:35.960 so one of the biggest problems is, is the lack of transparency and communication within the
00:38:40.080 district. So, so I didn't even know what it was. Our kids have been in the schools,
00:38:43.220 you know, eight years. And I remember hearing a couple of parents last year talk about during
00:38:48.800 junior high advisory period, they have an advisory period. So, so when you think of advisory,
00:38:53.220 think of study hall, right? That's what I thought of where you go, you know, you have
00:38:56.380 kind of break from your regular classes and you go and maybe ask questions about other,
00:39:00.240 you know, subjects that you're having trouble with or, you know, take, do, I don't know,
00:39:04.620 things that can't be covered in the other classes. And, um, Chloe got her band teacher for
00:39:10.820 her advisory. So instead of doing anything else, they just practice band again. So Chloe
00:39:15.180 had band twice, basically twice a day, um, on those days. And so, but other parents were
00:39:19.460 saying that during advisory period, they were, their kids were coming home, learning about
00:39:22.620 these social, um, justice issues and the, or these, you know, I, I, ideas and, and, and
00:39:27.440 learning about, um, you know, racism and, and things like that. And so what we were just
00:39:31.480 kind of surprised and, and didn't really know that they were, well, so apparently they
00:39:35.100 started sometime last year implementing this SEL, social emotional learning in the, in
00:39:40.760 advisory periods at the secondary level. And, um, then in, in, in August, I randomly got
00:39:48.480 on a Facebook group with about 300 moms that have been fighting this way longer than me.
00:39:52.660 I didn't even know that this group existed. Um, and we were, it initially was about masks,
00:39:56.920 um, because we were told two days before school started that our kids then yes, had to be in
00:40:00.820 masks. And, and that's in defiance of governor Abbott's order that says the districts cannot
00:40:05.660 force, uh, they can't force students to wear masks. It has to be a choice. Yes. And so
00:40:13.620 Richardson ISD has said too bad, too bad. And there's no exceptions. My, my child's in, um,
00:40:18.880 in special education and she has no, there's no, uh, waiver or opt out for her, even though
00:40:24.500 her, um, issue is a communication issue with her and, and emotional learning issue where it's
00:40:30.080 hard for her to understand socially what you're, what you're, um, feeling without looking at you
00:40:36.260 and looking at your mouth and looking at, you know, your expression. And so we have fought
00:40:41.240 that. This is another daughter. Yes. Not the eighth grader. Yes. Another daughter. She's in third
00:40:44.420 grade. And so, so yeah, so I initially got on and we can talk about more about masks too, but
00:40:49.560 initially I got on that about just wondering how can I fight this with masks with her specifically.
00:40:54.920 I mean, I, for all my kids, but especially for her and, um, found this group. And then that's
00:41:00.220 when they started talking about this thing called SEL. And that's when I learned that it meant social
00:41:04.140 emotional learning. And there, they, um, we're talking about how it's going to be in K through
00:41:08.420 sixth grade for 25 minutes every morning. And I am like, what are we, what is this? Okay. So I start
00:41:13.960 researching more and it's under the EDI, which is the equity, diversity and inclusion department.
00:41:19.600 They have created, they created it, I think about five years ago at Richardson ISD. I mean, that all
00:41:24.220 started because I don't know if you remember this story, but in, um, at Pierce high school, there was
00:41:28.360 a really bad meme that went out in 2017. It was a very, um, racist meme about Pierce high school was
00:41:35.600 the KKK and their rivals were, um, the Richardson high school. And it was very vulgar and very upsetting.
00:41:42.440 And, and, and, and that really is what we think has kind of started this whole spark of creating
00:41:49.240 diversity and inclusion. And so maybe, uh, understandably they saw a real problem and
00:41:54.640 someone said, Hey, we need to address this and, and make it better. That's probably how it started.
00:41:59.300 For sure. And I think it's a great thing. I think it needed to happen that we, you know, kids that
00:42:02.620 do not need to be making memes that are so that that is racism. Right. And so we, that's blatant and,
00:42:07.400 and should not be, you know, accepted at all. And so, so they started this, this,
00:42:11.680 you know, division or whatever of the district. And, uh, under that is social emotional learning
00:42:16.820 and, uh, connecting cultures, which is a separate curriculum. And that's something that I learned
00:42:21.900 from my friends. I did not learn from anybody at school, uh, in the district level. And so we did
00:42:26.140 get this flyer that said SEL preview nights or preview days. It was a Tuesday and a Wednesday or
00:42:31.160 Wednesday and a Thursday, eight to three. You could go up and review your child's lessons. Okay. Well,
00:42:36.420 I have, they only gave you an hour and a half window. I have four kids. It's about 50 lessons a kid.
00:42:41.440 Wow. Um, because there's no way. Yes, there's no way. And you can't take pictures because it's
00:42:46.340 opposed, supposedly it's copyrighted. And so you can't take pictures. So you have to take pen and
00:42:50.860 paper notes. And so I had, I didn't even go because I work and I couldn't make it those days.
00:42:56.200 And, but my friend went that we have similar beliefs and she started taking notes from me for
00:42:59.660 eighth grade. And she, she, you know, just ran out of time in the hour and a half to do one. She,
00:43:04.860 I think she got through four lessons. Wow. And because you have to watch the videos because
00:43:08.920 there's videos attached to each lesson and they're on YouTube or Tik TOK or these, you know,
00:43:13.040 platforms that we're not even letting our kids have a, have on their phone and yet they're getting
00:43:17.380 exposed to this. So, so that's how we kind of learned about it. Um, and, and through the,
00:43:23.560 the research from one, all these parents, um, in this group that have all spent time researching it
00:43:28.540 and through, um, just different, you can access one of the curriculums online. It was the K through
00:43:33.240 six. And so I started looking at kindergarten because my son's in kindergarten and thinking,
00:43:38.220 you know, what, what is he going to be exposed to? And, and, you know, right away, it's a, a little
00:43:42.740 alien named Z, um, who is not a boy or a girl and his planet does not have boys or girls. And, uh,
00:43:50.320 they talk about gender identity. I mean, they, they, it says in the notes, it says, yes, in the notes
00:43:55.620 on the side, it says teachers come up with a class name, like the, the Panthers or the Patriots or
00:44:01.360 whatever you want to call it, because you, you shouldn't be able to say, you shouldn't say
00:44:04.620 anymore. Boys and girls line up. You should say Patriots line up or, or whatever, you know,
00:44:09.140 tigers line up. Oh my goodness. And, um, so it says it in there. It also talks about, you know,
00:44:14.100 really trying to get away from boys do this, girls do this as far as, you know, what they can play with
00:44:19.280 or what they, what colors they like. And, and why I agree that some of that, obviously my, my daughter
00:44:24.760 is in a, is a, and she would be, she would be known as a tomboy, right? She loves sports. She's real,
00:44:28.920 you know, she's tough and totally fine. Yeah. So there's, there's, there's, there's totally room
00:44:33.900 there for, for, but it, it seems to be a undermining way to discuss gender identity for
00:44:41.320 five. For sure. And I was shocked, right? So I'm reading this and I, so, so I find out through my
00:44:46.660 friends, not from the school that I can opt out my kids. And so I email the principal and opt out my
00:44:52.080 kids at junior high and elementary. That's what you can do. And so you just send an email and you can
00:44:56.360 opt out. So, but when they get opted out, they go to the library and sit by themselves for 25
00:45:01.020 minutes at the beginning of the day. So instead of being with their teachers, so, you know, and the
00:45:06.520 district on, on, you can look, read, you watch this video, um, from Monday night, but the, the
00:45:12.340 superintendent, there's some discussion about SEL at the board meeting because parents are getting
00:45:16.580 upset and, and sharing this and the board doesn't really know what's going on. And when the board
00:45:20.700 members, you know, he, he was, he said, this is K through six. I thought it was, or K through 12,
00:45:25.160 I thought it was just K through six. He didn't even know that they've implemented in the high
00:45:28.740 schools and the, in the junior highs. And he didn't even know what the curriculum was. He,
00:45:32.620 he has three kids in the district and he didn't even know he could go review the curriculum.
00:45:36.220 And so he himself doesn't know. And so he's asking these questions and, and how much time
00:45:42.140 of it is it a week? Well, you know, this is assistant superintendent's talking and she says,
00:45:45.860 oh, it's just once a week. And there's a parent behind me that I know. And he stands up and yells,
00:45:50.680 even though we're not supposed to speak back and yells, my kid gets pulled out four days a
00:45:55.140 week and sits in the hallway by himself for 25 minutes a day for four days a week. He's sitting
00:46:00.100 out there. And so it's, it's, it's unclear. There's not, it's a, we don't even know how many
00:46:04.640 days it is a week as a parent. Cause mine's, I think mine's five for my little kids. I think it's
00:46:09.000 one for my big kid. And then like, you know, Chloe, she has to be pulled out and she sits in
00:46:13.080 the library with, with a, you know, at a separate table from any friends when all of her friends are
00:46:18.780 in there having fun doing this lesson and then getting to chat at their tables. And it's not six
00:46:22.920 feet apart. There's no COVID, but they told her it was because of COVID in the, in the library
00:46:26.260 that she had to sit six feet apart, which we don't even have that rule at all in RISD right now.
00:46:30.300 So it's almost, it feels kind of like a punishment for sure. Especially for her,
00:46:34.140 you know, it does, it feels like a punishment. And, and the last thing that you want to be when
00:46:37.900 you're an eighth grade girl, really any age, but especially that Tinder age is ostracized or seen
00:46:43.920 as different or for your parents to seem like fuddy duddies who don't allow you to do something.
00:46:49.120 So that's really difficult. It is. It's really hard. And the first week she was,
00:46:52.920 only two kids that got pulled out. And, um, I think the last week there was maybe 12. So it's,
00:46:58.460 it's growing, which is helpful to her to not feel like she's the only one. Um, and, and that has been
00:47:03.940 hard for us to watch her. And so, you know, um, throughout the rest of this week, we ended up
00:47:09.060 deciding to pull her from that class as of today. So today she had to start in a new class, um, with
00:47:14.040 a new English teacher. And thankfully she didn't have to rearrange her whole schedule, but she did have
00:47:18.440 to rearrange that class. And I hate it for her to now again, have to walk into a new class
00:47:23.900 and, and people asking, why are you switching out of GT? Why are you, you know, and, and just one
00:47:29.700 more, um, and, and she's tough and, and she, she, she's okay. Like this is, this is okay. She can do
00:47:36.380 this. You know, when we talk about how as Christians we are called to do hard things and, um, and so she's
00:47:42.060 prepared for it, but I still hate it for her to feel like she's so different and to not feel, um,
00:47:49.140 and, and the reason why we did that is because we, we could no longer trust that this, the teacher had
00:47:54.020 Chloe's best interest in, in mind. Yeah. I, the rest of the story with the books is on Thursday,
00:48:00.640 Chloe came home and she said, mom, the teacher passed out every single one of those books back to
00:48:04.280 the kids. Wow. And I was, I was like, even the, even the aunts went, even the worst one. And she said,
00:48:09.500 she said, yeah, mom. And, and the, the, so she passed him back out. They, they, yes. On like
00:48:15.080 two Wednesday or Tuesday morning, one morning, I think it was Wednesday morning. She came in and
00:48:18.680 said, okay, everybody bring your, bring your books to this table. You have to leave them here.
00:48:22.660 Something about this is the consequences. And Chloe didn't really know what that meant. And she was
00:48:26.600 angry. This is the consequences of your parents knowing what you're reading. Basically. And so,
00:48:31.880 and so she, you know, this was in reaction to your speech, to everything. She gathered the books back up
00:48:37.240 and then a few days passed and she passes the books back out. Yes. Even the one with gang rape
00:48:41.340 and how to suicide. Yes. And even after RASD made the statement that said, you know, no, these,
00:48:49.480 these, there are some inappropriate books in here. There are some with mature content that we deem
00:48:53.020 inappropriate for junior high kids. She gave them back. It's not even just mature. It is pornographic.
00:48:59.200 And I mean, truly, I think exposing a child, like we understand that a child, when it comes to actual,
00:49:08.440 actual sex, like a child cannot consent to those things. So any predation on the part of an adult
00:49:15.500 toward a child in that way is always assault. It's always, it's always predation. It's can't even be
00:49:23.660 seen as any kind of consensual relationship. I think it is absolutely the same principle that
00:49:29.860 applies when it comes to exposing children to pornographic material. Even if there's no
00:49:35.720 interaction there, that is a form of child abuse. The child cannot, did not consent to that. Exposing a
00:49:42.400 child to pornography is child abuse. And the fact that she is not only re-exposing that to,
00:49:48.620 re-exposing them to that, but also is suffering no consequences. And again, I want to remind people,
00:49:54.720 we're not talking about Portland, Oregon. We're not in LA. We are not in Manhattan. We are talking
00:50:01.680 about a little, not a little suburb, but a suburb outside of Dallas, Texas, that is known to be
00:50:08.060 pretty conservative. For sure. Yeah. That's, you know, that's one of the reasons why we're not in
00:50:12.840 DISD, right? Because we had heard over the years that DISD was not as conservative as rich.
00:50:17.940 Yeah. It does. Yeah. Was not, you know, as Richardson. And that's one of the reasons why
00:50:21.020 we moved there, hoping that our kids would get a neutral education, you know? And, and so,
00:50:26.460 yeah. So when, when she passed the books back out, I immediately called somebody high up. I just found
00:50:32.660 a number because I, I, and I am talking to the director of language arts overall. Oh, so she's
00:50:37.220 higher than Kristen. I mean, sorry, Lindsay. I said Kristen, but her name's Lindsay. But the person higher
00:50:41.220 than her, Dr. Butel, I think is how you say her name or Butel. And, and I just really quickly said,
00:50:46.280 I know you probably don't have time to talk to me. I just wanted you to know that my daughter
00:50:49.200 texted me and the books are being handed back out. This is not okay. This is now back in their
00:50:53.880 hands. You know, what kid isn't going to go flip to their crazy pages immediately in the next class?
00:51:00.240 You know, do, does every parent have the time to tonight to vet that book? Do they find all the
00:51:05.140 bad scenes? You know, some parents work late, some parents, I mean, and I, and I know parents need to
00:51:09.760 do their job. I know that. But at the same time, we don't need to be expecting our, our parents to have to
00:51:14.200 flip through books to make sure there's no porn in them. Like, you know, that doesn't make sense.
00:51:17.780 I mean, you should be on the same team. Yes, it is parents' responsibility. Yes. 100%. Yes.
00:51:22.560 God has entrusted parents with the responsibility of raising their kids, not teachers, but they should
00:51:28.960 be on the same team. That's right. It should, they should have the same goal. Even if teachers disagree
00:51:33.260 politically with the parents, that's going to happen. Yes. Even if maybe they expose them to some
00:51:38.680 political opinions that you might disagree with. But when it comes to objectively pornographic
00:51:43.280 and abusive material, you would hope that the teachers and the parents are on the same page
00:51:47.920 so that you're not, you're basically an adversary against the teacher in the district. And that's
00:51:52.900 not what you want. That's right. That's right. So we realized, you know, after she did that and gave
00:51:58.300 the books back to the kids, we, we could no longer trust that she had Chloe's best interest. And it's sad
00:52:04.740 because, you know, my husband talked about just this missed opportunity with, with her because here she
00:52:10.540 has this very sweet, um, fun, conservative Christian girl in her class who has, yes, a very firm belief
00:52:18.280 system and has for a really long time. And you have this, yes, liberal teacher that has a different
00:52:24.820 viewpoint. And part of our reason for going to public education was for that relationship to be okay for,
00:52:31.340 for her Chloe to feel safe in that classroom and talk about her beliefs as they came up for the teacher
00:52:37.240 to even sometimes share her beliefs that maybe were different, but that, that Chloe could then
00:52:41.380 mutually, they could have a mutual respect and she could respect her teacher in, and Hey, here's an
00:52:45.180 adult that I really like, and she's really fun, but she believes differently than me. But guess what?
00:52:51.680 She respects me and she respects my beliefs and, and, and I can be okay in her classroom knowing I'm safe
00:52:57.620 and knowing that she, she's, she's not going to push her beliefs on me and that we can have this
00:53:01.900 mutual great relationship and what a miss for her because it became now where Chloe doesn't trust
00:53:07.220 her. Chloe is, is upset and hasn't heard one word from her about being sorry or caring at all about
00:53:12.900 Chloe's heart and how Chloe felt in this. And, and that was just really disappointing that we didn't,
00:53:18.320 we didn't hear any remorse, no apology and, and no, no even addressing it at all other than to say,
00:53:23.960 put your books on the thing. And, and there was no, um, and so we just, we realized at that point,
00:53:29.080 it just wouldn't be in the best interest of Chloe to be, to be in there again.
00:53:38.040 Let's talk a little bit more about SEL. So we talked about what your son who was five was exposed
00:53:42.560 to as far as gender identity or would have been exposed to, um, what else is being covered? You
00:53:48.080 mentioned talks about racism and I'm guessing it's not just as simple as, Hey, racism exists. Cause we
00:53:53.460 obviously both agree with that. That's not controversial. What part of SEL as far as social justice
00:53:58.800 and so-called racial justice is implemented? Do you know? Yeah, I do. I mean, there, there's,
00:54:04.760 you know, my son's friend came home last week and said that their teacher told them that if you are
00:54:09.500 white, you are intrinsically born bad. Um, so, so that came from a teacher's mouth. So maybe not
00:54:15.120 word for word, but that's what he felt that he, on the side of the oppressor privilege. Yes. Yes. So
00:54:19.800 we know that there's, there's nuances of that. I've got a ton of notes about all of the different,
00:54:24.620 you know, cultural appropriation versus cultural appreciation. Um, just everyone can concede if
00:54:32.120 you work hard identity and belonging. Um, I'm trying to think of this. Everyone can succeed if
00:54:37.200 you work hard is actually, they're probably saying it's negative and actually more a construct of
00:54:42.820 whiteness than something that is actually true. So it's a bunch of, and we don't have to get into
00:54:48.040 all of the details cause I know there's a lot we can, but, um, I mean, we talk a lot about on this
00:54:53.460 podcast, critical race theory, what it is, what it isn't. Um, and I don't think anyone objects to
00:54:59.640 children learning about different cultures or learning about the goods and bads and the ugly
00:55:03.600 of American history. We want all of that. Whether your kid goes to private school, public school,
00:55:08.240 or is homeschooled, all of that stuff is important, but it's how it's presented. I also think that these
00:55:13.980 teachers aren't actually trained in educating kids in this way, especially without some kind of
00:55:21.200 agenda. That's part of the problem, right? Yes. Yes. For, for sure. And you know, I have two of our
00:55:26.580 kids are Chinese and I have a passion for wanting them to feel known and loved for their heritage and
00:55:35.180 their culture. And so do I want, when it comes time for Chinese new year, do I want her, their friends
00:55:40.900 to learn about that and to celebrate with them where they're from and get to see the beautiful
00:55:45.780 parts of the country of China, like the beautiful, um, city and the people there? There's so many
00:55:51.560 sweet people that we met there when we traveled there both times and, and, and just their, their
00:55:56.080 culture and where they're from. Do I want that to be celebrated? Yes. But, but then in one of the
00:55:59.920 lessons it talks about, um, Asians being the model minority in third grade. And so, and my daughter's
00:56:05.360 in third grade. So if she's in SEL, she's learning about that when, when I didn't even, I had to like
00:56:11.920 really learn what they even meant by that. And I, I have a hard time understanding how pointing out
00:56:17.940 our differences in a seemingly to be negative way is helping them in the end, um, be more loving
00:56:26.400 and accepting of everyone. To me, it's divisive and there's all these divisive, um, just little.
00:56:33.360 Yeah. And I'll explain what model minority myth is as well. So they call it model minority myth. And
00:56:39.940 basically, um, according to critical race theory, and this is not just me saying it's critical race
00:56:44.780 theory. It is in the book by Delgado and Stefan sick. I think that's how you pronounce her last
00:56:49.900 name. Um, introduction to critical race theory. They talk about how there is a model minority myth
00:56:55.400 when it comes to Asian Americans, because when people point out, Hey, Asian Americans have a higher
00:57:00.360 median income, uh, they have higher test scores, higher graduation rates, lower divorce rates within
00:57:08.180 their families, lower crime rates. Um, they say that, you know, critical race theorists would say,
00:57:13.620 well, that's a model minority myth. Well, I don't know exactly why it's a myth because those facts are
00:57:18.480 facts and they would claim it is a tool of white supremacy to try to denigrate, um, black Americans.
00:57:26.540 And so again, I would say that that, and I'm sure you could correct me if I'm wrong or if I missed
00:57:31.840 anything, but I do think one, um, that it's a strange, it's a strange concept because it does
00:57:38.600 divide and it even demonizes the success of a student who happens to be Asian. Um, and it just
00:57:47.700 pits, you know, white people against Asian people against black people rather than bringing people
00:57:53.880 together. And it does seem like that is either an intended or unintended consequence of a lot of
00:58:00.820 social, emotional learning. That's right. And it, and it depends on the teacher too. And so I think,
00:58:05.780 you know, you get this curriculum that's already, some of it has ideologies that I don't agree with
00:58:10.680 or that aren't the kind of the neutral ground that don't just discuss things neutrally. And then you
00:58:15.080 have a teacher that has to then end up teaching this curriculum. You just said it, they're not
00:58:19.660 certified to teach this. When I had my EC through four at early childhood through fourth grade
00:58:23.860 certificate, it was for the four main core subjects. I wasn't allowed to teach music. I wasn't allowed to
00:58:29.460 teach band or, or, um, or choir or whatever, because I wasn't certified. And so these teachers
00:58:34.640 are teaching this without being certified counselors, without being certified in this.
00:58:38.560 And so we're, we're, we're then again, giving them autonomy, just like we did with the books
00:58:42.400 on, then you do end up putting, if you can talk about things like, um, whether it's critical race
00:58:49.680 theory or not, but what it seems to be that, and you, then you put your slant on it, it can come
00:58:54.340 across as one sided. And, and that's where the problem is. And so, you know, our superintendent
00:58:59.380 painted this picture at the board meeting on Monday night that, that, you know, I don't
00:59:03.260 understand why any parent wouldn't want their kid in SEL. And I'm, she said, I'm befuddled that any,
00:59:07.640 any parent would want, not want this for their kid. And the thing is we, we do want that for our kids.
00:59:11.860 We want emotional, healthy, mental, um, we want them to be healthy in the classroom. And, and I
00:59:17.620 understand that there's a lot of kids in there that were serving in Richardson ISD that don't have a good
00:59:22.040 family life, that don't even see their parents at night. And so that's, I think where their heart
00:59:26.580 is supposedly is trying to reach those kids. And so, but they have created instead of this sweet time
00:59:32.580 of connection with the teacher where the teacher maybe asked questions or pulls that kid aside.
00:59:36.860 Like I would have when I was a teacher, when the kid walked up and had a bad day, I would, you know,
00:59:40.860 talk to them about their home life and, and, you know, ask them questions and, and then,
00:59:44.660 then maybe refer them to the counselor or talk to the parent about what they shared with me. Or,
00:59:48.820 so I'm checking in as a teacher with their emotional and mental health without having a
00:59:54.000 curriculum in front of me that is scripted, that is, um, talking about topics that we feel are in
01:00:00.860 the parent lane. And so that's like one of my, our biggest, like me and I'm saying ours and the
01:00:05.500 collective people that I'm speaking for right now, you know, we believe that the parent lane should
01:00:10.380 be where we talk about these things on a deeper level and the, and the school lane should be
01:00:15.640 education. And when you look at our test scores in Richardson ISD, it's, they're bad. We have,
01:00:21.240 we've been failing since 2017. Our scores have been dropping and not just, just my kid or the,
01:00:26.760 the, it's all races, all socioeconomic, we're all dropping. And it's hard to understand why we're
01:00:33.620 putting this much emphasis on a controversial section of curriculum instead of focusing on
01:00:40.760 getting our kids ready for college, getting our kids ready for, for success and whatever they do.
01:00:46.360 Yes. And, and so it's, it's, that's the hardest thing for us to understand is why we're spending
01:00:51.080 so much time on this. It's not a sweet little meeting with the teacher where they discuss
01:00:55.960 emotions and it, I mean, and maybe, and maybe some it is because maybe some teachers don't want to
01:01:01.000 teach this exact curriculum. And because they have autonomy, they don't maybe go over it all. I don't
01:01:06.740 think every single teacher is reading verbatim what's going on in the classroom. They do get to
01:01:10.700 decide which is good and bad. It can be really good, but also really scary.
01:01:14.620 Yeah. There's probably some who are ideological and so they're going to even take it further to
01:01:20.780 the left. And then there are probably teachers who just don't know because they're not necessarily
01:01:24.780 trained in this, who do read it verbatim and they don't realize the kind of influence,
01:01:29.700 the kind of influence that they're having. And I do think that, you know, we were talking about
01:01:33.680 before the cameras turned on how, uh, only 7% of kids in the district are even meeting the standard
01:01:40.420 for the statewide math standard, the seventh grade math. And I think that we're seeing this
01:01:45.600 across the country and yes, we can blame some of it on the virtual learning and the interruptions
01:01:50.120 from the past year. But like you said, this has been happening at least in this district, uh, since
01:01:54.920 2017 in other districts, it's been happening for a very long time. And unfortunately it seems like
01:02:02.260 somewhere, I don't know where it starts, whether it's on the teacher level, the district level,
01:02:06.000 the union level. I think it's probably a little bit of all of it. They're more concerned about
01:02:11.200 making children who are political activists than making children who are prepared to do math,
01:02:16.480 to do science, to be able to read and understand the classics, to be able to perform well on the
01:02:21.140 SATs and ACTs, and to be able to work hard and problem solve. That is going to have a generational
01:02:27.960 societal impact that is not going to be good. It's not good. Yes. Do you have any, um, just
01:02:34.480 final words, encouragement for parents who find themselves maybe in the same situation or trying
01:02:40.620 to find the courage to speak up, but they don't even know where to start? Yes. That's a great
01:02:43.920 question. I mean, I would say we, we love, we've loved our time in public school so far. This is all
01:02:49.720 new. Um, and there have, there's not, it's not been perfect by any means, but we've been able to
01:02:54.620 really talk to teachers when they, we weren't on the same page and, and get through conflict and
01:02:58.360 things like that. And, and I was so worried about sending my kid to junior high and public school
01:03:02.800 and she loves it. She has a great group of friends. She has wonderful teachers that are
01:03:07.520 impacting her life, both, um, just personally and then, um, obviously academically. And so I would
01:03:14.140 encourage, you know, from the Richardson ISC specific perspective, I want us to stay and fight
01:03:19.520 at least momentarily. I don't know next year what I'm going to do, but right now we're here
01:03:23.480 and I want other parents to, um, to start making sure they're sending emails to everyone, to the
01:03:31.200 principal, to the teacher, to the district, talking about their perspective on SEL, their
01:03:35.760 perspective on, um, on these books and, and, and their perspective on just the, the teacher
01:03:41.680 autonomy that the teacher has in the classroom and how that can be detrimental for, for their
01:03:46.240 children. And, um, and then being at the board meetings. I mean, when I went to the, my, I went to my
01:03:51.180 first board meeting this year and it was in August and there was probably 30 people there.
01:03:55.980 And then when we had this last week where I spoke, there was probably, I can't, maybe a couple
01:04:00.160 hundred. And so it's, it's growing and people are, are, are realizing, okay, the board doesn't
01:04:05.220 even know what's happening. Um, parents, parents didn't know what's happening. Now we're realizing
01:04:09.180 the board doesn't even know what's happening. And, and so we have to be all telling them what's
01:04:14.600 happening because, because my story with, with Chloe and the books, that's, that's just our
01:04:18.520 story. I know other parents out there have different stories about what they've seen on
01:04:22.100 the SEL preview nights or what they're seeing in their kids' classroom or books that are,
01:04:25.880 they're coming home with that they need to be raising flags and saying, this is not okay.
01:04:30.720 This is not okay for our kids and we want better.
01:04:33.600 And one of the board members actually resigned, right?
01:04:35.820 Yes. So that was that the woman who said that she was befuddled?
01:04:38.540 No, the, the superintendent said that the, the, the president of the board, she resigned and
01:04:43.280 that, you know, there's no reason given really by the district or by her of why she resigned
01:04:47.100 on Friday. And so I, I haven't, I don't know her. We've emailed back and forth, especially
01:04:50.780 about masks. I know this, this, this last month has been really difficult for her because
01:04:55.160 she, she, from what I learned, she responds to all emails from the whole board. Like if
01:05:00.980 you, if you email certain board members, they're not supposed to respond, but she will respond
01:05:04.680 to you.
01:05:05.160 So it's just been a lot.
01:05:05.960 Yeah. So I think it's been very heavy and I don't know her personally to know where she
01:05:08.980 stands on anything or anything like that. I just know that, that as a, gosh, as a teacher
01:05:13.460 and as a, as a, you know, that it would be really hard for me to, to assume that role
01:05:17.180 and not be totally overwhelmed by how much craziness is going on.
01:05:21.480 Right. Right. Well, you've set a really good example for, for parents, for moms to speak
01:05:26.820 up, to be courageous, but also to be very strategic. You've banded together with a lot
01:05:31.640 of other like-minded moms who care. And gosh, I hope dads, I hope dads too.
01:05:36.380 We've been getting them involved too.
01:05:37.460 It's so easy because the moms were the first ones to show up, but now there were a lot of
01:05:40.280 them in there. And that, that is so true. Men need to speak up too.
01:05:43.200 Yes.
01:05:43.640 And our doctors too. And our, our diversity folks that don't maybe, because, because what's
01:05:49.180 happening is, is it can be like this, the little white soccer mom is over here complaining
01:05:53.280 about her kid's education, you know, and so we need dads, we need diversity. We need doctors
01:05:58.260 speaking up against masks because they're, they're going to vote next week, um, whether
01:06:02.180 they're going to continue the mask mandate, um, even though it's against the law, they're still
01:06:05.860 going to vote on it. Um, and so we want people that, that believe differently than what they've
01:06:11.820 been, you know, getting from the district to start speaking up in these board meetings
01:06:15.420 more often.
01:06:16.420 Well, thank you so much for your courage, for your kindness, for your Christlikeness and
01:06:20.260 doing this because not everyone who confronts their school board does it in the same kind
01:06:24.580 of respectful way that you did. I think that takes away from our message. Um, sometimes
01:06:29.680 when there are parents who are understandably very angry and upset, but maybe they're more
01:06:34.160 disrespectful in the things that they say, which I have not seen happen in Richardson,
01:06:38.220 but I've seen in some viral videos across the country, which very understandable to be
01:06:42.260 frustrated, but I do think it's important how we convey our message. You did a really
01:06:46.240 good job. I'll just end by saying dads, dads, dads, it is time to speak up. I know lots of
01:06:52.080 dads have, but what I see is there are a lot of women who are going viral mama bear instincts
01:06:58.000 totally understand. But when I look at the composition of public school teachers, public
01:07:03.100 school administrators and, uh, teachers unions, what I see is that it is dominated by women.
01:07:10.320 And sometimes I kind of understand if, or I kind of wonder, I mean, um, if that is where
01:07:16.300 some of these problems are coming from, um, if women are just kind of more easily pulled
01:07:22.540 in that kind of ideological direction. And I do wonder if it would be more effective if
01:07:29.840 you actually saw an army of involved dads stand up, men stand up and say, no, this is not,
01:07:37.940 this is not happening. This is not going to happen with my kid. I think sometimes, unfortunately,
01:07:43.080 women can be dismissed with their concerns. Like you said, they just say, oh, you know,
01:07:47.900 she's just the, the soccer mom who has been too uptight about something. But I do wonder if you just
01:07:53.740 saw it, a wall of dad stand up and say, no, you're not going to approach my kid with that.
01:07:58.300 Effective. Yeah. Well, thank you so much. Thank you for taking the time. I know a lot of people
01:08:02.500 are going to be informed and, um, encouraged by this. So thank you.
01:08:05.940 You're welcome. Thanks so much for having me.
01:08:07.580 Yes.