Relatable with Allie Beth Stuckey - October 04, 2021


Ep 499 | NBA Star on the Vaccine, BLM & Following Jesus | Guest: Jonathan Isaac


Episode Stats


Length

50 minutes

Words per minute

200.01581

Word count

10,118

Sentence count

1

Harmful content

Misogyny

2

sentences flagged

Toxicity

7

sentences flagged

Hate speech

3

sentences flagged


Summary

Summaries generated with gmurro/bart-large-finetuned-filtered-spotify-podcast-summ .

In this episode, I talk to NBA player Jonathan isac about his stance on vaccines and the anti-vaccination movement in the NBA, and why he thinks it should be people's choice whether or not they are vaccinated.

Transcript

Transcript generated with Whisper (turbo).
Misogyny classifications generated with MilaNLProc/bert-base-uncased-ear-misogyny .
Toxicity classifications generated with s-nlp/roberta_toxicity_classifier .
Hate speech classifications generated with facebook/roberta-hate-speech-dynabench-r4-target .
00:00:00.000 hey guys welcome to relatable happy monday i hope everyone is having a wonderful day i hope you had
00:00:15.720 a wonderful weekend today i have a treat for you guys i am talking to nba player jonathan isaac he
00:00:23.480 plays for the orlando magic he is an outspoken christian and the reason you might know his name
00:00:29.780 is because he has gone viral twice over the past year plus the first time he went viral was because
00:00:36.980 of his response at a press conference about why he was the only player on his team to stand up
00:00:43.280 during the national anthem and he was the only player not to wear a black lives matter shirt so
00:00:50.000 before i go into why i'm talking to him today the second time he went viral over the past year i want
00:00:56.180 to play you a little clip of him talking about why he stood for the anthem last year i think when you
00:01:02.840 look around racism isn't the only thing that plagues our society that plagues our nation that plagues our
00:01:09.160 world and i feel like you know coming together on that message that we want to get past not only
00:01:14.340 racism but everything that that plagues us as a society i feel like the answer to it is is the
00:01:20.720 so i mean he is so extremely clear just about his faith about his beliefs he uh doesn't stumble
00:01:30.840 doesn't fumble doesn't caveat doesn't apologize doesn't try to make it so nuanced to the point to
00:01:37.560 where you know people won't think he's controversial i mean he just lays it out there so much respect for
00:01:43.080 that i had so much respect for him last year when i originally shared um that video and now he is
00:01:50.800 in the spotlight again because he is uh giving his reasoning for not being vaccinated and not only
00:01:57.540 that um he is talking about the what he believes is the injustice the unfairness the inconsistency of a
00:02:05.260 lot of the restrictions surrounding the vaccine so i'll play you a little bit of his uh take on that
00:02:11.540 i'm grateful that i live in a society where vaccines are possible and we can uh protect
00:02:17.600 ourselves and have the means to protect ourselves for the first in the first place um but with that
00:02:22.100 being said it is my belief that the the vaccine status of every person should be their own choice
00:02:28.680 um and completely up to them without the without bullying without being pressured or without being
00:02:33.560 forced into doing so so we're going to talk to him more uh about his stance why he believes what he
00:02:39.520 believes where all of this boldness came from and i'm super excited for you to hear that conversation
00:02:46.460 but first i want to give a little bit of context because he's not the only one in the nba who is
00:02:52.760 speaking up about this now typically we don't look to nba players to tell us our political views there's
00:02:59.740 been people like you know lebron james saying some ridiculous things that obviously i don't believe
00:03:05.680 and don't agree with and are just factually wrong um and yet we have seen many nba players stand up
00:03:13.060 and say hey this coercion this manipulation this assault on true bodily autonomy isn't okay kairi irving
00:03:21.400 um is uh he's being accused of leading a coalition of anti-vaxxers now i'm sure that that's not an
00:03:30.240 accurate description by the media uh but he is speaking up about this he is talking um about
00:03:38.860 the importance of freedom of choice when it comes to this and not only kairi irving but there is also
00:03:44.540 draymond green um he plays for the warriors and i'll play you a little bit of his response on this
00:03:51.960 you know i think there is something to be said for people's concern about something that's being
00:03:58.380 impressed so hard like why are you pressing this so hard like so much you're just pressing and
00:04:05.160 pressing and pressing i think you have to honor people's feelings and and their own personal
00:04:10.920 beliefs and i think that's been lost um when it comes to vaccinated and non-vaccinated and then the
00:04:19.680 most shocking of all to me was lebron james now lebron james says that he was vaccinated but he also says
00:04:26.720 he thinks that it should be people's choice so here is lebron james saying that i think everyone
00:04:31.220 has their own choice um to do what they feel is right for themselves and their family things of
00:04:35.700 that nature so uh this is i mean this is a wonderful pleasant surprise as we have talked about many times
00:04:42.740 no matter your vaccination status you should be able to use your common sense your knowledge of any
00:04:48.640 bit of history at all just a tiny semblance of a moral compass to see that where this is headed
00:04:54.480 where it has already come um is scary it's it's wrong it's not based in science it's not based in
00:05:01.820 logic it's certainly not based in any form of uh compassion and it is um unfortunately robbing
00:05:09.280 people of dignity robbing people of autonomy robbing people of their ability to um to provide for
00:05:18.060 their families and as we'll talk about with jonathan it just doesn't make a whole lot of sense
00:05:22.780 especially the part that so many are ignoring and this is the part that was apparently the most
00:05:29.360 controversial of what jonathan isaac said natural immunity so there is this crazy trope out there
00:05:35.920 that the media is trotting out that there's no such thing as natural immunity which is just plain false
00:05:41.180 i mean we've talked about the giant preprint study coming out of israel that's not the only study
00:05:46.780 but that's one of the most recent studies saying that natural immunity is stronger and longer lasting
00:05:53.160 than immunity from the vaccine especially if you have not been infected with covet um now the study
00:06:00.440 also said that hey you might be able to get some an extra boost if you've been infected and you get one
00:06:05.640 dose of the vaccine but if you have never been infected and you've just gotten your two pfizer shots or
00:06:11.820 whatever versus being unvaccinated and having been infected um you don't have a strong of immunity as
00:06:19.520 that person who has been infected jonathan isaac brought this up and joy read you know i had to
00:06:25.720 mute joy read on twitter it was uh just my way of trying to maintain my sanity uh but i happened to see a
00:06:34.760 screenshot of her tweet and she quote tweeted uh she quote tweeted will kane from fox news who tweeted
00:06:43.160 out jonathan isaac's explanation and she said oh so sticks and stick to sports doesn't apply when it's
00:06:50.620 stuff y'all agree with got it also natural immunity is not a thing it's not a thing talk about a science
00:06:58.160 denier i mean this is the same joy read who by the way tweeted a year ago that how could we possibly uh
00:07:04.120 how could we possibly trust a vaccine that was approved by the fda i mean she was the true
00:07:09.680 anti-vax science denier a year ago saying that we shouldn't trust a vaccine that is developed by
00:07:16.660 donald trump or something like that i mean it's this is why i had to mute her because she is blue
00:07:22.460 anand i mean she is a conspiracy theorist truly and so her latest conspiracy theory is that there's no
00:07:29.080 such thing as natural immunity when we know that there is and we know that it is very strong
00:07:34.540 in fact our secretary for health and human services xavier becerra who was just demolished
00:07:42.960 by rand paul the other day you need to go search that uh online if you have not seen rand paul we
00:07:48.160 don't have time to play it right now rand paul just completely eviscerate xavier becerra becerra
00:07:53.500 our hhs secretary you need to go see that because our health and human services secretary is not um
00:08:00.960 it's not a health expert he's not a scientist he doesn't have any degree in science he is not a
00:08:05.580 doctor he is never he has never met with a patient why because he's a lawyer and he was attorney general
00:08:11.640 at one point of california like he doesn't have he doesn't have any experience in this realm and of
00:08:17.100 course rand paul called him out in that um on that in a hearing uh in the senate because xavier
00:08:24.240 becerra said in a speech last tuesday on an online forum hosted by the foundation for a healthy kentucky
00:08:31.440 that uh my friends the earth really is round because some flat earthers especially those in
00:08:37.400 places of influence choose to peddle fiction we're losing more loved ones today than we were a few
00:08:43.240 months ago uh what we have to do isn't rocket science he said get vaccinated and what he is
00:08:49.040 talking about in the context is people who say that there is such a thing as natural immunity and that
00:08:54.180 natural immunity can actually protect you from reinfection and especially severe infection and
00:08:59.520 hospitalization that is the hhs secretary we are being run by science deniers actually this is a 0.99
00:09:06.000 cake histocracy a cake histocracy is when the idiots are in charge i'm sorry i know someone's going to say 0.99
00:09:11.620 that that like tone was rude or that i shouldn't have said that i'm sure actually these are very 1.00
00:09:16.640 smart people maybe that's the bigger danger about this is that these are not stupid people they're 0.85
00:09:22.140 not dumb they are very smart but that makes it seem like maybe they're actually malicious and the 0.96
00:09:28.880 longer all of this goes on the harder it is not to put that um uh put that malintent on them uh nba 0.98
00:09:38.580 legend kareem abdul jabbar said that unvaccinated players should be removed from teams and so they're
00:09:46.240 not messing around these players of course everyone but in particular in relation to our conversation
00:09:51.480 today these players are up against a lot they're up against a lot they're not just up against some
00:09:56.300 people in the nba um but they're up against our health bureaucracy anthony fauci is actually saying now
00:10:04.560 that we might not be able um or he says this that he doesn't think that we should be able to
00:10:11.880 celebrate christmas this year here's anthony fauci saying that but we can gather for christmas or it's
00:10:17.080 just too soon to tell you know margaret it's just too soon to tell what in the world like does he not
00:10:24.560 have does he not have a tell like does he not see that there are stadiums full of people every weekend
00:10:30.740 with tens of thousands of maskless people cheering and uh saying some other things about our president
00:10:38.060 of the united states like there i think even if you're a liberal there are very few people who are
00:10:43.000 actually abiding by what anthony fauci says i mean we haven't not since you know the beginning of 2020
00:10:49.700 um and so people are not uh they're not going to follow whatever kind of i don't even know if this
00:10:59.040 counts as a rule it doesn't count as a mandate i guess just the advice of anthony fauci i mean people
00:11:04.920 are living in a completely different reality most people are living as normally as they possibly can
00:11:10.380 a lot of people don't even wear masks in uh in many places and actually we're seeing in places like
00:11:16.620 florida the spike that they were having um has dropped by now 95 just in the last few weeks
00:11:22.760 that's because as we've been saying it's seasonal the more you're inside the more the virus is going
00:11:28.780 to circulate the more those case numbers are going to go up it's very hot in the south in the summer so
00:11:33.600 a lot of people spent their time inside that's why you saw higher case numbers we're going to see a
00:11:38.340 switch of that we're going to see the northeast which we're already seeing um they're they're going to
00:11:44.220 get a spike their cases are going to rise even though they are highly vaccinated that is my
00:11:49.120 prediction based on the data that we have anyway and you will hear silence coming from um the media
00:11:55.920 um nevertheless uh dr fauci is saying that we might need to uh we might need to rethink this whole
00:12:03.480 personal liberty thing here he is saying that you have got to look at it and say there comes a time
00:12:08.740 when you do have to give up what you consider your individual right of making your own decision
00:12:16.240 for the greater good of society which is funny because last year he said this if someone refuses
00:12:23.080 the vaccine in the general public then there's nothing you can do about that you cannot force someone
00:12:30.280 to take a vaccine so we wonder why there's distress like we wonder why there's hesitancy people are
00:12:36.760 constantly accusing the right of politicizing this when it has been political since democrats figured
00:12:41.900 out that they could use it as uh you know a tool to try to defeat donald trump it's been political
00:12:49.460 since we heard the democrats in february of 2020 call trump a xenophobe for saying that hey maybe we
00:12:56.540 should restrict travel from china it has been political since then and it has not been predominantly
00:13:02.540 the right who has politicized the actual virus we do realize there are political implications to the
00:13:10.000 measures to allegedly stop the spread of the virus because it is political like that is political
00:13:18.060 um and we do want to follow the science that's all most people have been asking for a very long time
00:13:24.620 but unfortunately we have flip-flop fauci and uh we have the public health bureaucrats who are changing 1.00
00:13:31.700 their mind not based on science but based on the teachers unions based on political opinion
00:13:37.160 based on some i don't know some desire for control that i personally i just can't i can't relate to it
00:13:42.960 all right i just wanted to give some context of uh what we're talking about jonathan is mostly going to
00:13:48.200 talk to us about um his faith and how we can be bold and standing up for the things that uh that we
00:13:54.260 believe in and he's going to give us a lot of encouragement but he's also going to talk a little bit
00:13:58.580 more about you know why he stands where he stands on this particular vaccine and the mandates that
00:14:04.260 have come down the pipeline jonathan thank you so much for joining us i know who you are and have
00:14:15.480 known who you are for a while but i wanted to look you up on wikipedia just to you know find some details
00:14:21.120 about you and i learned that your birthday was yesterday you turned 24 did you do anything fun or was
00:14:26.320 it just just work it was just two uh i got married two weeks ago so oh my gosh congratulations that is
00:14:34.960 awesome thank you very much but i practiced yesterday and all that so i just wanted to just relax oh well
00:14:41.320 happy birthday and thank you for taking the time to talk to us today you are in the news you've been in
00:14:48.740 the news before this time you're in the news because of your stance on the vaccine um but before we get
00:14:57.560 into that i just want to hear a little bit about you like tell us your story how you came to faith how
00:15:03.160 you came to be so bold and sharing your faith fill in those details for us so i i grew up christian
00:15:09.100 my dad was super christian we were in church all the time like it felt like every day we had to
00:15:14.840 memorize whole psalms to recite them in church um and a church really just became so traditional
00:15:20.560 and you know i didn't understand the lifestyle of it or that god was something that was tangible
00:15:26.200 and my parents had split up when i was 10 and i ended up in florida with my mom with my four
00:15:31.220 brothers and one sister um and basketball just started to take over my life i started to play i
00:15:36.060 started to it started to get me uh you know what i was searching after love and and and respect and
00:15:41.920 notoriety and all that started to come to me through basketball i became the number one player in the
00:15:47.080 state of florida um and i it just it just rolled on i ended up uh being drafted to the nba as the
00:15:53.480 sixth pick to the arando magic and i had this picture in my mind even through college and high
00:15:58.780 school but like what a man was and it was like somebody i was who had the money who had his choice
00:16:03.720 of women who had the stuff um and then once i was able to attain those things i quickly figured out 0.97
00:16:09.280 that it wasn't all that they were chunked up to be and i found myself a lot of the time just
00:16:13.880 wrestling with who who are you um you know you're either doing this or doing that to please the
00:16:18.800 people around you or to to have yourself come off a certain way i just i just wasn't happy um and
00:16:24.460 do something like god given like uh just uh what's the word i'm looking for intervention um where i
00:16:31.260 ended up getting hurt um my rookie year and at the time i thought it was some terrible thing but it
00:16:35.720 turned out to be a blessing in disguise i had went to a chapel uh one time and the chaplain said
00:16:41.720 uh why do you call me lord lord and not do what i say it's luke 646 and i can remember just being
00:16:47.280 like man like that is me luke 646 is me and i would think about it during the game i would think about
00:16:53.120 it before i went to bed and i came to this conclusion where i was like listen i'm gonna search
00:16:57.600 this thing out and either i'm going to commit myself to it because it's true or i'm gonna throw it
00:17:03.180 away so i dove into like christian apologetics uh uh uh frank turek and and robbie zacharias and uh
00:17:10.540 all these different people uh john lennox i just dove into it um and it was trying to rationalize
00:17:16.160 it that way but it still wasn't really a heart thing it became like a mind thing okay this makes
00:17:20.900 sense and this makes sense so i'll go there um and then i one day i was stopped by me on an elevator
00:17:26.360 and he said to me he said i know what's going to make you great and i said what he said you gotta know
00:17:30.440 jesus and i was like man i know jesus and i began to i began to to to to just see this man all the
00:17:36.540 time we began to hang out and he really he taught me the love of god like like love like how how love
00:17:42.760 is not when you're good um uh that that real love is when things aren't going right like real faith
00:17:47.820 real faith isn't when everything is good it's when things are bad if you can believe then or if you
00:17:51.800 can love then that's true love and that's godly love and i started to figure out that god loves me for
00:17:57.040 me god doesn't love jonathan for nba jonathan or what god what jonathan does on the court or what 0.80
00:18:02.120 jonathan does that's impressive god loves jonathan for the jacked up uh hypocritical just crazy jonathan
00:18:09.540 and i began to fall in love with god and i started going to church um and it turned out that that man
00:18:14.440 was the pastor of that church and i just began to grow and just glean from him and to you know to
00:18:19.820 where i became the man that i am today praise god well thank you so much for sharing that um would you mind
00:18:25.980 telling us since you just got married if you don't want to share that's okay but i know that people
00:18:31.080 would love to hear how you met your wife i met my wife at that same church you did oh and it's it's
00:18:38.440 funny and it's it's telling and uh it makes a lot of sense when i like break it down but like i got i
00:18:43.160 got to church and there's this there's this beautiful girl just who carries herself with such poise and just
00:18:49.420 just just a mighty woman of god right and uh i see her and i'm like oh you know she's beautiful but
00:18:54.700 she's not attractive to me in that sense because of what i'm just coming out of i'm just coming out
00:18:59.660 of the world i'm i'm trying to get myself acclimated to faith and believe in god and what what god likes
00:19:04.940 and all that stuff and so she's not all over me i'm an nba basketball player coming to church and
00:19:10.260 she's not giving me the time of day yeah but as i began to as i began to grow as i began to see things
00:19:17.800 not you know through the flesh but through the spirit she became the she started to become more and more
00:19:22.800 attractive to me and i was like man those are the values those are the principles those are the
00:19:27.100 that's the heart posture that i believe you know god likes and god honors i'm like that woman could
00:19:31.580 be my wife one day so i started to pursue her and the more that she saw me grow as well the more
00:19:35.840 attractive that i became to her and she started uh she started giving me the time of day and then
00:19:40.040 i had it all in my mind i was like you know we're gonna date for a year we're gonna be engaged for a
00:19:44.460 year and then we're gonna be married uh and barring covid pushed it out four months but everything
00:19:49.380 else was on on yeah oh my gosh well i love that story congratulations and thank you so much for
00:19:55.020 sharing your your testimony of faith as well i know that alone if we were to stop the conversation
00:20:00.660 right now that alone would encourage and edify a lot of people so thank you for sharing that a lot
00:20:06.580 of people i know can relate and have a very similar story to you maybe not the nba part most people
00:20:12.340 don't have that as part of their story but they can certainly relate to being just inundated with
00:20:17.400 worldliness and only relying on god kind of when things are hard or treating him a little bit like
00:20:22.780 a genie in a bottle um and then realizing having that conviction like wait oh he's god he's not a
00:20:29.820 genie he doesn't just exist for me but if he's going to be my savior he has to be lord too and it sounds
00:20:35.600 like that's what you discovered right 100 percent yep um okay that's not why you're making headlines
00:20:43.040 necessarily now you are you're making headlines the rolling stone wrote an article and included you
00:20:49.200 um talking about you know your so-called um anti-vax stance they accuse you of being an anti-vaxxer
00:20:57.260 and i want to talk about how they describe you and just get your reaction to that so jonathan isaac is
00:21:04.300 known less by the average basketball fan for his play than for being that guy who stood up with his jersey
00:21:09.260 on during the national anthem in the nba bubble while every other player on the court took a knee
00:21:15.100 and a t-shirt declaring black lives matter amid a global reckoning on race and police killings
00:21:20.340 i'm not going to sit here and point my fingers at one group of people um isaac who is black tells
00:21:26.400 rolling stone i would do it again so this much of the article we haven't read the other part of the
00:21:31.900 description seems pretty accurate i mean you were the only person to stand up or to stand for the
00:21:38.120 national anthem and not wear a blm shirt last july can you talk about why i know you have in the past
00:21:44.000 but just for people who may not know your reasoning yeah i would start with the the article even with
00:21:50.020 that short segment it is pretty um you know off-putting to not not just the words but to the
00:21:55.520 heartbeat behind you know why i decided to stand it wasn't in a uh you know a vigorous i'll do it again
00:22:01.340 and i'm you know i'm this person that right uh you know wants to stand out or wants to wants to go
00:22:06.960 against the grain it was really um from a heartfelt posture and saying that man i see everything that
00:22:12.760 goes on every the reason why everybody's mad about the black lives matter but there are tons and tons
00:22:17.880 of things that go on every single day um that hurt people that harm people that harm each other um on a
00:22:23.720 grand scheme and i'm saying man i know that jesus has been the answer for me and i know that he's the
00:22:28.320 answer for the world and if we can take a moment to step back and say man i've played a part in this
00:22:33.380 too and the bible says it clearly when it says we all fall short of god's glory and are in need of
00:22:38.360 his grace um and so it was it was a humble posture to say you know what i humbly we i've seen enough
00:22:44.160 division you know i've seen enough going back and forth the white the black um but there is no color
00:22:49.420 in the spirit and i know that god is trying to get us all to unite and we can unite if we all can
00:22:54.020 understand that man my evil uh is just as prevalent is just as potent than anybody else's evil
00:22:59.720 and the problem usually is is that i can see the evil and no one can see mine and so uh that that's
00:23:05.720 that's what i believed and that's what i decided to stand on to say man we can come together
00:23:09.420 and uh the verse that was playing in my mind so much was uh second chronicles 7 and 14
00:23:14.220 where god says that if my people who are called by my name would humble themselves seek my face
00:23:19.160 pray turn from their wicked ways i'll hear from heaven i'll forgive their sins and i'll heal
00:23:23.720 their land and i know that my land has been healed you know with my heart and my understanding
00:23:27.700 of who god is and that god wants to heal the land of america and really the world right right and
00:23:33.040 you're right rolling stone didn't really pick up on the posture or the heart behind what you were
00:23:38.140 doing when you're the only person to stand when everyone else is doing something else especially
00:23:43.040 when they're in a posture of kneeling someone who doesn't understand you or is committed to not
00:23:48.000 understanding you might think it's actually for the opposite motivation that you're trying to make
00:23:52.040 some kind of prideful political statement and that's not what you were doing at all right
00:23:57.940 for sure and he knew what he was doing you know he knew uh just just the same way that i'm explaining
00:24:03.760 it to me it to you i explained it to him right the standpoint of you know i would do it again
00:24:08.560 it's just saying that if the if the opportunity did arise i would come from the same heart posture
00:24:13.400 um and would take the stand again for for christ and not myself yeah and you know we can't
00:24:19.320 necessarily expect someone i don't know the religious beliefs of this particular reporter
00:24:23.500 but i know journalism in general probably if i were to guess he doesn't share a belief system and so
00:24:29.500 maybe it was purposeful but also he probably simply doesn't understand can't comprehend exactly
00:24:37.980 where you are coming from um which which probably explains the next part of uh this article which
00:24:45.040 we know for sure um is inaccurate because you've responded to it but just uh for the people out
00:24:50.440 there who don't know this is what rolling stone said the orlando magic's 23 year old 24 now this
00:24:55.960 was written before your birthday 23 year old starting ford is deeply religious and proudly unvaccinated
00:25:01.400 when nba players started lining up for shots in march isaac started studying black history
00:25:06.400 and watching donald trump's press conferences he learned about antibody resistance and came to
00:25:11.120 distrust dr anthony fauci he looked out for people who might die from the vaccine and he put faith in
00:25:16.940 god at the end of the day it's people isaac says of the scientists developing vaccines and you can't
00:25:22.720 always put your trust completely in people is that an accurate description of the conversation that you
00:25:28.260 had with him uh no uh you know not not by a long shot uh when it came to talking about trump and you
00:25:35.540 know if we talked about trump at all was it was talking about how at first when the vaccine was first
00:25:40.520 introduced and obviously it was during the trump administration that you know everyone was so
00:25:44.680 hard against it um you know that there's no way to come out this fast or it can't you know it can't be
00:25:50.460 right or whatever and then you know as soon as the other office took over it's kind of been a complete
00:25:55.300 reverse uh and you know everybody needs to get it this is the this is this is a crisis and things like
00:26:01.120 that um yeah yeah and so where but where did he get that the reason for you not getting the vaccine was
00:26:11.080 because of watching donald trump press conferences and studying black history i mean did he just
00:26:16.200 totally make that up or is that kind of was that pretty much decision making when i uh when i mentioned
00:26:22.360 about uh how i said how uh when trump first talked about well when the trump administration was first
00:26:28.380 in and they were talking about bringing the vaccine out that uh you know everybody was against it and
00:26:33.080 now they're for it he took that as that went into making my decision uh so it's pretty pretty pretty
00:26:38.340 far-fetched um to get there and so when i was reading the article myself i was like what in the world
00:26:44.360 and i i was just glad that um i was able to i had i knew i had an opportunity coming to be able to share
00:26:50.380 and just rationalize where i was coming from on the monday press conference i was coming up
00:26:54.520 yep and we already played some of that and of course that's been making its rounds on twitter
00:26:58.980 and social media and i know that's never your intention when you have these kinds of press
00:27:04.760 conferences but you do kind of tend to go to go viral have you always been someone who is able to
00:27:10.800 communicate what you're thinking well because not everyone has that skill not at all not really
00:27:17.960 and to hear you i'm so serious to hear everyone like oh he's so he's so articulate he's so this
00:27:24.520 he's i'm like yo you guys have no idea who you're talking about um how i really used to struggle
00:27:30.080 terribly with anxiety and fear and just self-consciousness and god has been steady working
00:27:36.060 on me and my heart to just find my boldness my trust my confidence all in him um and it really
00:27:42.020 people who know me from my time in college or my time in high school would be like jonathan
00:27:45.780 would never in a million years get up and want to talk in front of everybody so to be now to be
00:27:50.520 ministering to be you know able i know it is nothing but the power of the holy spirit and god
00:27:56.180 on my side yeah well it has to be because it's not just that you're standing up and saying what you
00:28:01.200 believe but you're you're against a lot yes there are other nba players we already talked about before
00:28:07.240 we started talking that are saying the same thing as you um but as far as you're definitely against
00:28:13.720 the media the mainstream anyway you're against a lot of politicians you're against a lot of the
00:28:19.240 bureaucrats at some of these health agencies and um i don't know if you also feel like you're kind of
00:28:25.920 against a lot of people at the at the nba do you feel that the nba is supporting its players who
00:28:32.360 have the same stance as you do uh you know i really wouldn't say i'm against uh you know anybody i
00:28:41.720 think that i'm always up for having a conversation and i just mean sorry i just mean that your
00:28:47.200 particular stance is against the stance of those entities that i just listed not that you are trying
00:28:52.280 to oppose them just that you have a different view than them for sure you know then i would agree
00:28:57.560 with that uh when it comes to the league i think that you know i think that there can be you know
00:29:02.800 there should be more conversation around what's happening now especially with the the vaccine and
00:29:07.320 you know uh them not having a mandate but at the same time trying to make it difficult um you know
00:29:13.840 for unvaccinated players to kind of live in the nba in a in a real way and so uh i would say i i would
00:29:23.400 want more support or just more room to have conversation to talk about you know what's going on
00:29:27.480 yeah i think that's what a lot of people want i mean i'm sure you've seen a lot of the posts in
00:29:41.700 the news articles about the nurses about firefighters about doctors who have been on the front lines for
00:29:48.720 the past 18 months police officers servicemen and women who are basically asking the same thing that
00:29:53.460 you are they don't see themselves as against science or against any politician but simply saying
00:29:59.320 hey i'd like to be free to have a choice and unfortunately people they just they just don't
00:30:06.260 have they don't have that choice and i'm very i'm thankful for people like you who are speaking up for
00:30:11.560 them but what would your what would your encouragement be for people who maybe don't have the platform that
00:30:15.900 you do who want to be able to relay though the same message and be as bold as you are but
00:30:21.480 they're scared or they just don't know what to do do you have any encouragement for them
00:30:26.580 you know i i want to say to hold the line you know i know that's that may be a you know dramatic
00:30:34.240 wording but uh you know i i really do think we're at a point in time where of like a pivotal time in
00:30:40.680 history where more than just you know we're talking about a vaccine but more than that i believe that
00:30:45.540 uh you know this government is setting a precedent that in in light of any emergency that uh that you
00:30:52.520 know your personal autonomy uh your god-given convictions your your your uh your religious
00:30:58.540 freedom and ultimately your freedom as a whole is is then up to negotiation um and i would just say
00:31:04.740 that at this point in time it is going to take courage it is going to take boldness to stand up for
00:31:09.700 um what it is that you believe and to say it proudly and to say it loudly um and so i would
00:31:14.680 just say to trust your convictions to trust who you are and decision that you're making and try your
00:31:20.140 best to relay that um in the best way but i think that even more than that um when things like this
00:31:27.200 happen a lot of times they continue to snowball as good people people who have you know sense and all
00:31:32.720 that stuff they they they see what's happening but they don't say anything um either out of just no
00:31:38.060 personal uh reservation or uh not wanting to stir anything up or stir any feathers or people that
00:31:44.100 even are vaccinated that see things and say well you know this really isn't as reasonable as you know
00:31:49.580 a lot of people think it is and i think that we really forget what we're talking about here we're
00:31:54.400 talking about a a virus that has pretty much as close to 100 survival rate as you can get and then on top
00:32:02.080 of that a virus um that does not stop infection or transmission and um you know the sad thing is
00:32:08.440 the vaccine that doesn't yeah the vaccine that doesn't stop uh infection or transmission and the
00:32:14.000 sad thing is that you know people who have been you know quote unquote weaponized um to you know
00:32:19.620 weaponized out of fear to go around and to you know with their clubs and to beat people over their
00:32:24.040 head who are asking questions who are hesitant um the sad thing about that is it's just about right now
00:32:29.960 and the time will come as this thing snowballs that it may be something that you don't agree with
00:32:34.700 um whether you you agree with it right now but something may come where you don't agree with
00:32:38.640 and you're going to be looking for somebody to stand with you someone to to be a voice and no one will
00:32:43.240 be there um and so i i really think that it is it is deeper than the vaccine it is a lot going on
00:32:49.500 um and it is going to be on the the people who are bold enough and courageous enough to stand up
00:32:54.420 and to and not only the people who have who are not taking the vaccine but the people who have
00:32:58.480 taken the vaccine there are common sense for people and good people and to say you know what
00:33:02.300 what's happening is not right um we are talking about like i said a virus with a near 100 survival
00:33:08.180 rate um we haven't had a conversation in this country about natural immunity um and i believe
00:33:12.920 that is pretty telling and so uh you know like i said it's going to take people who are going to
00:33:16.780 stand up and be bold and you know platforms like yours will bring people on to speed yeah definitely
00:33:21.620 joy reed actually responded to your speech i don't know if you know who joy reed is she is a
00:33:27.580 host on msnbc and she said well she said a bunch of things but one of the things that just struck me
00:33:34.400 that she said is that there's no such thing as natural immunity i mean that's just that's amazing
00:33:39.880 to me and maybe you don't know the answer to this because i don't really know the answer to this
00:33:43.480 either so you don't have to speculate if you don't want to but i do wonder what is behind the denial
00:33:49.300 of the reality of natural immunity you said that you've already had covid you've got those antibodies
00:33:55.120 we know from several studies that immunity to covid once you've been infected can be very strong and
00:34:01.460 very enduring even more so than the vaccine so if it really is about health and safety then why why
00:34:08.000 would we deny that have you been surprised by that i guess is my question that so many people pile on
00:34:13.320 you when you mention not uh natural immunity yeah i i would say i would say utterly surprised um very
00:34:19.760 very surprised and and what i come away with that is that it's not them um i don't remember the name
00:34:25.440 of the woman that you said that was on that that hosted show but that's not from her in terms of
00:34:30.340 knowing that natural immunity doesn't exist um she's taking that from somewhere else or from either
00:34:35.360 uh like i said even the government to not have a conversation about natural immunity um then trickles
00:34:41.240 down to people who are you know that are carrying out that message but yet i have been pretty astounded
00:34:46.920 that no one is talking about it um like but there have been people there have been scientists there
00:34:51.280 have been studies that come out and say you know what um your uh reaction to natural immunity is
00:34:56.060 robust and long-lasting um and that just hasn't been shared and to me that that that is a focal point
00:35:01.560 on people who who have taken the vaccine that have that understanding to say you know what something
00:35:06.880 is off here and a conversation needs to be had and we need to sit down and not be firing people over
00:35:12.580 yeah honestly i have to say i'm surprised not by you because i've seen your boldness before but i am
00:35:19.180 kind of surprised that there are other nba players that are making a stand about this i mean maybe it's
00:35:26.320 typically because i politically disagree with a lot of the most outspoken nba players have you been
00:35:32.320 surprised or not really that there are other nba stars who are standing up and are taking this position
00:35:41.040 i wouldn't say surprised i think uh you know nba players we can be pretty opinionated um and a lot
00:35:48.440 of times when it comes to speaking out there are they are maybe on issues that don't directly impact
00:35:54.140 us um in in a lot of ways but now we're talking about something that is you know what you have to
00:35:59.980 put this into your body and you know we're at a 95 percent uh nba vaccination rate so it's not to
00:36:06.580 say that there's a whole lot of players that are saying you know what this isn't for me
00:36:09.780 but when it does come to personal autonomy and being in the nba i'm sure you know there are guys
00:36:14.920 who even were reluctant to take and that did take it um but the guys who are speaking out it it makes
00:36:20.600 it more uh you know just point that it is something now that's not just you're not just speaking on it
00:36:25.900 but it is you know pretty much in your backyard right now the nba is saying that uh unvaccinated
00:36:33.880 players will be subject to a much stricter set of health and safety protocols compared to their
00:36:37.960 vaccinated peers including daily testing which won't be required of fully vaccinated players
00:36:43.000 um and then the league will continue its strict regulations this season for unvaccinated players
00:36:49.200 um and then says you know if you have to miss any games because you're not vaccinated in a certain
00:36:54.600 city that requires it you won't get paid for those games so is that something that i guess you're just
00:36:59.780 taking into stride and doing everything you can to kind of abide by your own conscience but
00:37:04.880 also you know submit to the regulations that are being put in place yeah i touched on it a little
00:37:12.040 bit in the press conference where they were like you know what happens when the nba does come out
00:37:15.460 with these regulations and i said the nba is free to make those regulations and you know as a member
00:37:20.460 of the nba i'm going to follow them um but my only point would be it to me it doesn't logically
00:37:25.660 follow for us then to jump on the court or for me to be at a different locker room than my teammates
00:37:30.980 but then follow into the same tunnel and to to go out to the game um it does it doesn't really make
00:37:36.280 much so you have to be in a different locker room a different part of the bus because you're
00:37:40.800 unvaccinated but then you get on the court and you do you know what play you typically do exactly
00:37:46.200 i don't know all of the regulations that have been laid out but i know some of them would be
00:37:50.560 you know i'm not allowed to uh to go to like team team functions or if the if the team is eating
00:37:55.940 at a restaurant i can't eat in the same room as them uh to me it just doesn't logically follow
00:38:00.860 for us then to to get on the court together um and then again for natural immunity to be ignored
00:38:06.620 and then again just this all of this is coming about um talking about a virus with such a high
00:38:12.360 survival rate um and and you've already had it exactly and even if you take the vaccine it does not
00:38:18.640 stop um you know infection or transmission i'm not against the vaccine i think there absolutely are
00:38:24.100 people who should take it people who are afraid um for either uh you know their their their health
00:38:29.940 status um their uh their lifestyle or just you know what i want to take this chance i want to i
00:38:35.380 want to take this step to protect myself further if i do come in contact with the virus again i'll be
00:38:41.140 protected and i want to say if you do come in contact with the virus not an unvaccinated person
00:38:46.080 and i think that's what's been misconstrued that if you come in contact with an unvaccinated person
00:38:50.680 um that's the issue but you it doesn't matter unvaccinated or vaccinated you're going to come
00:38:55.920 in contact with this virus again um it's not going anywhere and then it's your decision to take that
00:39:01.160 step to say you know what i want this vaccine to help protect me i help protect people around me but
00:39:05.880 it should be everyone's right yeah and you're you're absolutely right i mean we've seen several
00:39:10.280 studies that it doesn't actually stop the transmission and you may also get infected if you've
00:39:15.140 been vaccinated what it does seem to do is reduce the chance of hospitalization but hospitalization
00:39:21.400 rates for people who are infected without the vac or without having had the vaccine are extremely low
00:39:27.980 anyway so like you said it does make sense for it to be a personal choice because you are taking a
00:39:33.240 measure that will hopefully mitigate your risk of having serious illness but you still you could spread
00:39:38.820 it to someone else um and so it doesn't seem really like this um societal responsibility that
00:39:46.760 we're being told that it is i've heard several christians say that if you don't get the vaccine
00:39:51.240 then you're not loving your neighbor and if you're not loving your neighbor of course jesus says
00:39:55.560 you know two great commands love the lord your god and love your neighbor as yourself then that's
00:40:00.020 basically saying if you're not getting the vaccine you're not a christian and so a lot of people
00:40:03.920 are feeling pressure from that kind of theology some people are feeling from their pastors or
00:40:08.820 whatever christian influencers that if they don't do this thing that they don't want to do and maybe
00:40:13.340 they feel like they don't need then they're not really following the lord or they're not loving their
00:40:18.680 neighbor what would your response be to that you know there's a uh there's the verses in the bible
00:40:26.580 where jesus is talking about the pharisees and he's like uh you know you can discern the weather you can
00:40:32.500 discern these natural things but you can't discern the signs of the times and i think that's so
00:40:37.740 you know needed right now you know just in the conversation of just the church and just christian
00:40:42.480 people where it's like listen you know no one is saying that the vaccine is wrong no one is saying
00:40:47.060 that the vaccine is is deadly or anything even though there is a chance of adverse effects even that
00:40:53.420 conversation is not really being um had where people in this country who have who have died people
00:40:59.040 who have come away with um you know different ailments because of taking the vaccine um and
00:41:04.120 maybe even they felt pressure to and didn't want to in the beginning but what is said to them if they
00:41:08.360 walk away with an adverse reaction to the vaccine but um you know no one is saying there's anything
00:41:12.500 wrong with the vaccine but i really do think that this is a time for spiritual discernment to look
00:41:17.740 at what's happening to look at the precedent that's being set and it as this thing snowballs and as
00:41:24.160 there aren't people you know christians or non-christians to step up and say you know what
00:41:28.220 this is not right um it sets a precedent for in the future we're going to look up and say well what
00:41:34.160 about my religious freedom and there won't be any um and that's not that's not to preach a a a glooming
00:41:40.180 message because at the end of the day jesus is in control jesus is sovereign and i completely believe
00:41:45.000 that um but i do believe that if we're not careful with what we're saying if we're not careful with
00:41:50.020 discerning the signs of the times we can walk ourselves into uh not having religious freedom
00:41:55.860 or having our reasons for not doing things or wanting things a certain way to be delegated and
00:42:02.100 and uh for the the government to be the the judge during execution on if our reason is is real or not
00:42:08.040 yeah and so it it is it is crazy um you know i don't think that you are any less christian if you
00:42:14.560 take the vaccine or not um but i would just ask for um just spiritual discernment to say you know
00:42:19.940 what something is off um and as christians we have to be vigilant and we have to be um understanding
00:42:25.720 and discerning of the times to to stand for our brothers and sisters who have taken the vaccine
00:42:30.160 or haven't yep i totally am with you i mean it is an area of christian liberty like you said it's not
00:42:37.380 unchristian to take it it's not unchristlike not to take it what i do find unchristlike is this kind
00:42:44.060 of pharisaical burden that some people are trying to put on others by saying hey you're not really a
00:42:49.640 christian and you don't really love your neighbor if you don't take this particular vaccine you
00:42:54.600 mentioned the pharisees it reminds me of the pharisees too those burdens that they placed on 0.97
00:42:59.400 people to try to say you have to reach this standard in order to be holy in order to be loving when they
00:43:04.520 themselves weren't even truly obeying god from faith um and it reminds it reminds me of that as
00:43:10.260 well um and like you said it doesn't matter vaccination status you can be able to see what's
00:43:16.340 going on and still hold the line and still push back against it knowing that it's never wise to
00:43:22.880 exchange a tiny possible promise of a semblance of temporary safety for all of your liberty it is
00:43:30.720 never worth that absolutely you you said it beautifully you said it beautifully that's great
00:43:36.340 can you just end on some encouragement you've already given a ton of encouragement but people
00:43:47.120 are feeling like okay we're losing our liberties and yes there are people like you who are speaking
00:43:51.800 out but a lot of people feel super powerless and um they're just looking at the state of the country
00:43:57.940 and they're wondering okay is it all going to hell in a handbasket it's it's crazy like the conversations
00:44:03.880 i even have with my friends one of my friends who has had covid who is not getting the vaccine
00:44:08.240 at least right now she was like i you know i wanted to go to new york with my friends and she can't she
00:44:14.680 i mean she won't have access to places she won't be able to go to a show it's crazy that we've gotten
00:44:19.900 there so quickly and that some people don't see what's going on and understandably people are feeling
00:44:25.540 hopeless so can you give us some hope can you remind us where our hope lies yeah i would say that at the
00:44:32.080 end of the day what's going on right now it proves without a doubt that your trust that your hope that
00:44:38.240 your identity that your that your your heart has to be somewhere that is greater than man um because
00:44:45.080 at the end of the day this is man that is carrying out this these delegations or these regulations or
00:44:49.540 these rules whatever um but jesus said even though you will have trouble in the world be of good cheer
00:44:55.400 for i have overcome the world already and so i would just plead with people to find your trust in jesus
00:45:01.080 find your trust in something that is greater than man and what is more greater than man than god
00:45:06.060 himself so i would just say stay encouraged it may feel like hopelessness but there are people who are
00:45:11.020 out here that are trying their best to hold the line and i believe that we're going to see a great
00:45:16.100 revival through this as well as people begin to eyes be opened and they understand man what i thought
00:45:21.980 before what i what i what i wanted i don't want anymore or what i thought before i don't think anymore
00:45:26.800 and they're going to be looking for salvation they're going to be looking for help they're going to be
00:45:30.580 looking for the person that's going to stand by them and so as christians be that person be somebody
00:45:35.280 who is going to stand on faith that is going to be the light in in this in this dark world that is
00:45:40.480 only getting darker and so i would just say i would say keep on keeping on keep the faith yeah just
00:45:45.060 by faith and not by sight so just be encouraged be of good cheer jesus got us yeah and can you remind
00:45:52.240 people last thing but something that struck me and just surprised me so much is when you said
00:45:56.460 that you were not someone that people used to know as outspoken or as a clear communicator of
00:46:04.980 your ideas and it seems so natural to you can you encourage people who maybe feel the same way that
00:46:11.560 you did like hey i can't speak out or i can't be bold or i can't stand up because you know like moses
00:46:17.420 i'm not i'm not good at speaking up i'm not good at communicating but yours is a testament to the fact
00:46:22.600 that god is going to use anyone that he wants to use and he's going to equip people however he wants
00:46:27.240 to equip them right for sure there's a saying that said god does not call the equipped that he equips
00:46:33.400 the called and i think that that is that is something that's really needed to be said in this
00:46:37.200 time and that god's strength is found in our weakness god doesn't need us god didn't need moses to 0.87
00:46:42.740 be perfect god moses just needed god to be god and so um in this time and it even goes into um i know
00:46:49.360 i mentioned to you through our uh messages that i'm finishing up a book right now um and the book
00:46:54.080 is called why stand oh thank you for thank you for bringing that up yes talk a little bit more about
00:46:59.380 that yeah the book is called why stand um and it does it goes off of my decision to stand in the
00:47:05.980 bubble um and it talks about how you know when it happened everyone was so you know jonathan is so
00:47:11.400 courageous jonathan is so this and even though there was a lot of negativity that came about it too but
00:47:15.740 the people who agree with me that's what they were saying you know you're so bold you're so courageous
00:47:19.680 and i'm saying man you don't know the half of the story of where i come from the things that i've had
00:47:24.480 to allow god to work out of me to work in me to deal with me on um and it takes people through the
00:47:30.720 journey of where i was to how i came to faith and faith has been the thing that has caused me to be
00:47:35.960 able to speak has caused me to be able to stand because i know god for myself i know that he loves me i
00:47:42.080 know that he's called me i know that um my faith my my salvation my confidence my boldness my trust
00:47:48.200 is all in him um and you know he's the only one that i'm trying to please and so uh with the book
00:47:54.600 it's going to become and it what's crazy too is it now kind of pales off of this uh you know this
00:47:59.920 instance this this instance as well that in this time we're going to have to stand on what we believe
00:48:05.340 whether you're a christian or not there will come a time uh you know the bible says choose you
00:48:09.720 today whom you will serve there will become a time where you have to stand on what it is that
00:48:13.900 you believe and you're going to have to know jesus for yourself or you will be swayed um or you will
00:48:19.000 go you know move like the ocean move like the wind so um why stand is going to be coming out soon
00:48:23.980 i got a conversation i got a call with uh the vice president of simon and schuster today uh later
00:48:30.080 today about picking the book up so i'm excited about that but you know everything is great i can't
00:48:34.260 wait to get it out and uh hopefully i can be back on you know ali when it does come out
00:48:38.100 definitely definitely well yes please let us know the timeline for that so we can have you back on
00:48:45.180 um i do what you just said does remind me of this passage from ephesians so we'll just end with this
00:48:52.320 because you talked about if you don't stand in jesus then you are going to be persuaded and you are
00:48:58.340 going to you know be tossed on the waves and ephesians 4 talks about that that we are to grow into
00:49:05.380 mature manhood to the measure of the stature of the fullness of christ so that we may no longer
00:49:10.480 be children tossed to and fro by the waves and carried about by every wind of doctrine by human
00:49:16.020 cunning by craftiness and deceitful schemes rather speaking the truth in love we are to grow up into
00:49:21.280 every way into him who is the head into christ that is something that you do very well is speaking
00:49:27.180 the truth in love um so thank you thank you so much for taking the time to talk to us
00:49:31.600 and thank you for holding the line in your own way i really appreciate it my pleasure again ali keep
00:49:38.980 doing all that you do all the work that you put on the content that you put out thank you uh thanks
00:49:44.040 again for having me all right guys thank you so much for listening to that he is awesome i know i keep
00:49:54.900 on i keep saying that but he just really is he is such a great example for all of us i'm not really
00:50:01.200 a sports person but now i feel like i have someone to specifically cheer for and i know you guys were
00:50:06.900 super excited about this too again tomorrow 500th episode really excited call 682-503-1369 it needs to
00:50:15.400 be before tomorrow morning though guys because that's what time we record we record in the morning comes out
00:50:20.260 in the afternoon so before tomorrow morning leave your voicemail saying what relatable has meant to
00:50:25.260 you we might play it tomorrow uh thank you guys to everyone you know who has already already called
00:50:31.420 us we really appreciate that okay we'll be back here tomorrow see you guys then