Ep 524 ｜ Why Everyone’s Freaking Out (& Why We Don’t Need To) ｜ Guest： David Marvin
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Summary
In this episode of Relatable, my friend David Marvin joins us to talk about anxiety, why we all struggle with it, and why we don't need to. David is a pastor at The Porch Youth Gathering in Dallas, Texas and author of the book, "We're All Freaking Out and Why We Don't Need To."
Transcript
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We are going to talk to my friend, David Marvin.
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We're going to talk about anxiety, why we are all anxious, what we're anxious about.
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And we are going to talk about the ways biblically that we can work out of anxiety and stop dwelling
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on our anxious thoughts because it's really robbing us of the joy that God calls us to.
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And it is taking us out of this present moment.
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It's called We're All Freaking Out and Why We Don't Need To.
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Don't we all want to know why we don't actually need to be freaking out in light of all the
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And so he is going to give us such refreshing truth today.
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And I'm super excited for you to hear this conversation.
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Can you tell everyone who you are and what you do?
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I work at Watermark Community Church to lead the porch, which is a young adult gathering,
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primarily in Dallas, of a few thousand young adults every Tuesday night.
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We've got 15 satellite locations throughout nine states in the country and have been there
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for 12 years, married my wife, Callie, nine years ago.
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One of the things that I'm sure that you hear about a lot is that young people especially,
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but maybe everyone, feels really overwhelmed in general, but also with everything that's
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going on in the news, with politics, we're overstimulated because of everything we see on
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And I'm guessing that's why you wrote the book that you did, correct?
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So, you know, doing ministry, just like doing anything that has a sizable reach or people
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coming, publishers come, and I'm sure they do all the time with you, and go, hey, would
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I never thought, man, I'm going to write a book, or that was just like my life goal to
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So originally when they reached out, I was like, man, thank you.
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I don't know that this is the time or write or whatever.
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And then they came back and they said, it seems like you're passionate about anxiety.
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I'm married to a counselor, so my wife primarily deals with people who battle with anxiety.
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And so that led us to a journey where we just said, man, let's pray about if we could create
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a resource that would help connect the dots on what God's Word actually says about anxiety
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and combating it, to be a first line of defense.
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Because my experience in the church is often when someone struggles with mental health, depression,
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anxiety, they are quickly pushed to a counselor, medication, psychologist, all of which are
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great fields, or, you know, I've personally been a defendant from.
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So of course I support, but not at the exclusion of what God's Word actually teaches.
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And further in my experience, one of the reasons why they were so quickly pushed outside of
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the church to find solutions for anxiety is because I think the average Christian doesn't
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It assumes God says, don't be anxious, just pray more, or just have more faith and you won't
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have anxiety, which is such an unhelpful and oversimplification, I think, of what the Bible actually teaches
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So that was how we came up with that and then worked on that resource and came up with we're
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And even the title of that has a funny story that is behind because I don't think I ever
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This is Penguin Random House, an imprint, different imprints.
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But yes, it started out with one title that was even like in the contract.
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I remember not liking actually the title that we came up with.
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And of course, it's grown on me and I couldn't imagine it being anything else.
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And I remember one day I bumped into her and we were talking to church and I was like,
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I can't think of a title for this book on anxiety.
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And in typical Jenny fashion, she was like, be at my office today, 2 p.m., we will name
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I show up at like 1.58 and Jenny's like one of the best authors around.
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There's just so much to celebrate what God is doing through her.
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And I'm assuming, you know, this could be like five minutes or I'm just honored to even
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I ring the doorbell at her office and somebody leads me back to this room and it's her entire
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team sitting in this room and they're all these just incredible women leaders.
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And five minutes into the conversation, she flips through in the manuscript something that
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And I had all these ideas like, you know, anxious, no more or battling anxiety.
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And so, yeah, pitched it to the publisher and they loved it.
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And so we're all freaking out why we don't need to, which again is connecting the dots,
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not as a last line of defense or to dismiss all the different helpful resources that God
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has given us through psychology and counseling, but as a first line of defense on what the Bible
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So before we get to the why we don't need to part, why in your estimation are we all
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I think especially for so younger, and I know you talk about this a lot, the younger generation,
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Gen Z, millennials, young adults, are estimates put in between two and three times more likely
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to have anxiety disorders, depressive disorders.
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And I think there's a lot of contributing factors behind that.
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One is the stage of life that they're in between 18 to 30 is, especially post-college, one where
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for the first time, the train tracks of life have kind of run out.
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In other words, prior to that, everything is pretty mapped out for you, like first grade,
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then you go to second grade, third grade, junior high, then you go to high school, then you
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And it's like at the end of senior year or your second senior year, the tracks run out
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and you're in this free fall of going, where am I going to live?
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Should I not marry this person while I ever get married?
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How am I going to afford to pay off student loans?
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And I think you add with that, the average age of marriage, because loneliness has a
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relationship to anxiety and mental health and those feelings that we feel.
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The average age of marriage has so moved up from, you know, 1980 was 24 and 23 was the
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Today it's 30 and some estimates put it even closer to 31 and 29.
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So you're walking through this really uncertain stage of life and you're doing it for most people
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And then as you know, the digital connections that we have feed a lot of that anxiety and
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the superficial relationships that we have don't help prevent that anxiety.
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So I think all the comparison, you know, Instagram, one person on my team said, it's like a living
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to-do list when I go on there of all the things that I'm confronted with.
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Oh man, I see somebody getting engaged to do, find a date to find someone.
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Uh, I see somebody's car that they're driving to do, make more money.
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I'm bombarded with all these things and not just social media, but we're so connected.
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When Pearl Harbor happened, you think about our grandparents hearing that on the radio
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or reading it in the newspaper, maybe a week later.
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And today, if there's a terrorist attack in Sweden, you know, you can get a news alert
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So we're so connected to both all the traumatic things that are going on.
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And I think a lot of the digital connections that we have are promoting or producing anxiety.
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And the fact that we don't have authentic, real, deep relationships are not preventing
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So we live in this tension where we're constantly in a world that is producing anxiety and we're
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not having authentic or leveraging things that will prevent anxiety.
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So I think that's, that's a short, and there's a lot more that goes into that, but I think
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that's at least a real snapshot of what's contributing to it.
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Something that we talk about on this show in a, in a lighthearted way, but maybe it seriously
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connects with what you're talking about is something that I call, and I think is maybe
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So this is anxiety surrounding doing really menial tasks that should not elicit any anxiety.
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So like sending stuff back, say you order something from Amazon and you don't want to
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send it back or you got something from the store that doesn't fit and you have to return
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Calls on your phone when someone is calling you, the anxiety that comes from that, checking
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your voicemails, answering text messages, going to the post office, all of these little
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things that really should just be such easy tasks that we take care of.
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I've talked to a lot of people, not just millennials, but mostly people our age who just have this
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long list of little things that they've never been able to get to because for some reason
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And I don't, I, you know, I haven't totally psychoanalyzed this.
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I think it has something to do with the oversimulation that you're talking about, but what's your analysis
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Yeah, I think that, um, we, uh, do where there's so much comparison and we can get so
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trapped in thinking small things are such a big deal in life.
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Or if I'm not where I, you know, see everybody else in life at in terms of success, in terms
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of, of whatever, fill in the blank, then I think I can get overwhelmed by that.
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And then to your point, we are so overstimulated and bombarded and, you know, studies even show
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turning off your phone for an extended period of time, it leads to physical symptoms of anxiety
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And so this, you know, um, a friend of mine, uh, created a book that, um, Jefferson Bethke
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wrote, oh man, it's, uh, related to hurry to hell with the hustle.
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And he said in there, something that, um, I thought was, it was potentially true.
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Maybe even we're all seeing it and living in denial of it, where he said it was a day
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and age when cigarettes were encouraged by doctors or certainly tolerated by society.
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And then 50 years later, people were like, oh, that was really bad.
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And his proposal or his hypothesis was, I think there's going to come a day, day where
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we see that the phones that we were all carrying around, weren't killing us like via cancer.
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They were just killing our sense of peace, our ability to engage with people, our relational
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So I think all of that, to your point, is contributing to a paralysis and just heightened
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I think it also shows us just how finite we are and how finite we are meant to be because
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I heard a pastor a while ago, I don't even remember when it was, talking about how our
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phones give us this sense of omniscience and omnipresence.
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What you were saying about how long time ago something might happen across the world, you
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hear about a week later, you never hear about it.
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You don't even know what really happened across town.
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You're just focused on what's right in front of you.
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Well, now we are confronted with all these different issues that are happening globally
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that we feel like we have to have equal amounts of empathy and care for.
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And if we don't, then we feel inadequate or we're not virtuous enough and we have to say
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It's making us feel like we're God and we weren't made to be God.
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But through this little device, we feel like we are taking on God-like characteristics.
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And I feel like part of our anxiety is that crushing burden of being a God that we just
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It also brings up insecurities where there was a time for me to compare my life to you.
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And now I can, you know, in my living room, compare my life to people I'll never meet,
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like a Swedish billionaire can make me feel insecure and can make me feel like I'm inadequate
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just by looking at, you know, something that he posts.
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And I'll never even meet this person or some celebrity and the relational drama I can carry
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And I think all of that is adding, whether it's exposing a weight that we weren't meant
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to carry and a God-like omniscience that we weren't meant to have.
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It's that feeling of insecurity that human beings, I imagine, have always had, which is
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why one of the Ten Commandments is do not covet.
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And yet it is so much easier now to break that commandment because of our accessibility
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Um, so you've established why we're freaking out.
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Because it sure seems like there are plenty of things that are demanding my freaking out.
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I think if you're not a Christian, um, the solutions that I think God has for you will
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But at the end of the day, they're going to be superficial because they haven't dealt with
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the ultimate reason, um, that you're on the planet.
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And honestly, the reason you should be freaking out is as a believer or follower of Jesus,
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we believe first and foremost, everyone's going to live forever somewhere.
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And so if you haven't put your faith and a lot of people don't understand what it means
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to be a Christian, which is why I'm thankful for resources like the one that I'm on right
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now in your show of clarifying that, that a Christian is just someone who's accepted
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what Jesus did on the cross, dying for their sin, paying for everything wrong they've
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And they've accepted that payment for their sin and his resurrection from the dead.
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And if you haven't had a moment where you did that, um, in the kindest way possible,
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I would say you kind of should be freaking out because you're going to spend eternity
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But maybe for different reasons than Instagram is telling you.
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You should know that, man, I'm going to give an account for my life.
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But for Christians, one of the reasons that we don't have to freak out, and this is a
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I'll try to give some, uh, short answer ultimately what the book is entirely about is
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uh, walking through, let me give one example of an area of scripture I think is so misunderstood
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that is so much more helpful about why and what to do when you find yourself freaking
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In Philippians chapter four, the apostle Paul writes, uh, do not be anxious about anything,
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but in everything by prayer and supplication with thanksgiving, let your requests be made
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So he says, don't be anxious about anything, pray about everything.
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And then he says, and the peace of God, which transcends all understanding will guard your
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Now, most people read that verse and they assume Paul is saying something that seems
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impossible and like he's a superhero that Paul just say, don't be anxious, never worry
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And if you read it that way, it will seem impossible and it will seem unhelpful and it will be a wrong
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And I'll explain why I say that the Greek word that is used all throughout the new Testament
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And the word that Paul uses in Philippians chapter four is the Greek word merim now.
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And the Greek word merim now of for not be anxious is a word that was synonymous and is
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synonymous in Greek language, which is what the Bible was written in the new Testament was
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So Paul is not saying never have an anxious thought.
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What Paul is saying is when those anxious thoughts come, don't choose proactively or
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willingly to meditate and dwell on those anxious and fearful thoughts, which I've never met
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Like what helps me in life and what has brought more satisfaction and has changed my life for
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the better is I decided I'm going to meditate on every fearful, potentially anxious, bad thing
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And life ever since I started doing that has been amazing.
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And candidly, that's far more helpful, I think, and practical, because if I read it
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and just go, Paul just said, don't worry, just pray.
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That doesn't actually get at what the root of what he's saying.
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He's saying, no, don't meditate on those, which is why in that same chapter, the next
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verse, Paul says, finally, whatever's true, noble, lovely, worthy of praise, think about
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So Paul's saying, don't meditate on these, bring those things to God and choose to meditate
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on these things, what's true, what's behind that.
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And so that's one example, I think, of a way that the Bible is way more practical and way
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more helpful, because I can choose not to proactively decide to dwell on anxious, fearful
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What do you think the church has done well when it comes to helping Christians deal with
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And maybe you touched on this at the beginning, but maybe expound upon it.
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And what do you think has maybe been unhelpful or misunderstood about anxiety from Christian
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Is it that aspect that you were talking about that maybe some Christian leaders have said,
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well, you shouldn't even think about medication.
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If you're worried, then it's just because you're not reading the Bible enough.
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So what have been the goods and the bads there?
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You know, I can only speak from my own experience in terms of church world, the last church or
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I think the gift of community and the gift of small groups, we call them community groups,
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but just having people in your life that are basically a support group and basically the
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people that walk alongside you in the highs and lows of life that provide a space, and
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hopefully your church has this, for you to have relationships where you can open up and
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You know, you don't have to even be a Christian.
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Psychology would support that just by talking about what you're feeling, your anxious thoughts,
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And so I think as Christians, we're commanded to open up our lives to other people.
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And I think that's a real benefit and real gift.
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What I think the church has done a poor job of is not, for whatever reason, it's made
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anxiety seem like, man, if you struggle with anxiety and there are so many factors that
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influence if a person's going to struggle or their likelihood to struggle with anxiety
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And we have made it seem like if you struggle with anxiety, you're living in sin or you should
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carry some sort of shame with that, rather than embracing, I battle against anxiety and
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coming along and helping them walk through and chase down the roots of that anxious thought.
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Maybe I liked them all back in like, you know, when I was, I don't know, how old was I?
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You could go to Claire's, get your ears pierced.
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If you were like 13, your mom would drop you off with your friends.
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But you know, I haven't been to a mall in a long time, I have to say.
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So I, like you, hate going to, well, I don't know if you hate going to the mall.
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I don't go to the mall as often as I can, or I try to never go to the mall.
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But when inevitably, you know, Apple produces some product I quote unquote need or something
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breaks on my phone, I have to go to the mall to go to the Apple store.
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And every time that I go there, I don't, because I never go to the mall, I never know where
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So I park on the wrong side of the mall and I walk in and I'm like, where is the Apple
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Even though you've been there several times, it's like every time you go, you can't remember.
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Or they're moving the store around or something.
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They're moving the Apple store every time David Marvin shows up at the mall.
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We're going to find whoever's behind this conspiracy.
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So anyways, I go in and I look for the last physical map in society, which is that big,
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like it's, it's like a, you know, one foot wide, eight feet tall physical map.
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I look for where is the Apple store and which is where I want to go.
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And then I look for something that without it, I can't get to where I want to go.
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And that's the little star that says you are here.
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In other words, if I don't know where I am, I can't get to where I want to go.
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It's not helpful to know that's where the Apple store is.
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And I think on anxiety, in order for you to get to where you want to go, you've got to
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In order for me to live a life that's not crippled or not enabled to deal with anxiety, I've got
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Man, I'm crippled with anxiety about my singleness.
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I'm crippled with anxiety about my kids' health.
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I'm crippled with anxiety about being able to pay off loans.
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And I think for whatever reason, we don't encourage people to say, hey, and you can
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It's in fact, the first step towards not struggling with it is embracing it.
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And people feel like they need to pretend they don't or deny those thoughts or try to dismiss
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But I think what the brilliant teaching of Jesus in Matthew chapter six, one of the things
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that he leads us to is establishing and kind of chasing down, what am I anxious about?
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Or what's fueling and what's underneath those anxious feelings and thoughts?
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And I don't think the church has done a good enough job of encouraging or facilitating.
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And that may not apply to every church of every person that's listening.
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But of encouraging that conversation to really help people.
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Why do you think it is that, and I won't speak for other people, but for me, sometimes, even
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though I don't want to be anxious, or I say that I don't want to be anxious, I actually
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find myself hanging on to fearful thoughts and not even wanting to let them go.
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So I know when an anxious thought starts, it typically happens with, it starts with a what
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if, what if this happens to my kids or to me or to our situation, whatever it is.
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And then I know, like, there's a point where I can say, don't keep going, because there's
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And there's almost this sick satisfaction that you get out of saying, well, let's just
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play out the worst case scenario and dwell on it for a little bit.
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We know it's just going to, you know, tear us up inside.
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I think, okay, I'm going to say something that is going to be really unconventional.
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I think the what if question, because that's really what anxiety and fear is built off of.
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I think it sounds like you take the next step and you answer that and you play it out.
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And yet I think there's even one additional part of that equation in playing it out that
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people should add that I found really personally helpful in my own life.
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Because anxiety plagues off of this kind of vague feeling of fear that, oh, no, what if
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And I think and I learned this in counseling, that there is a freedom that comes by playing
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it out and then adding to the end of that equation.
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Which would be candidly the most extreme, terrible.
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That would be probably the most pain I'll ever experience or could even imagine experiencing.
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And at the end of that, I don't forget to reinforce, but God would.
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He promises that he's near to the brokenhearted.
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And so as hard and as almost impossible as it is for me to imagine how painful that would
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be, there's going to come a moment where I look back for all of eternity and this life
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And as hard as that would be, God would meet me through there.
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And I would encourage somebody to walk through that.
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And so dating and relationships and singleness is a real fear.
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And one of the biggest fears is what if I'm single forever?
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And in talking with people, I would encourage them answer it.
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And it's only by answering it and by facing it that you can fight it.
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And then bring about what's true, whatever's noble, all that stuff Paul commands and reinforce
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God has promised that he still wants to use and has a purpose and a will for my life.
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God would give me strength and would use all the hard things that I walk through to bring
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And so I know that sounds unconventional, but I think it's in Matthew chapter six.
00:26:05.380
And I don't want to go too long if you want to go somewhere else.
00:26:13.960
And he's teaching a lot of topics and he brings up anxiety and he brings up what his audience
00:26:20.240
worried about where he brings up food and clothing because that was real.
00:26:24.000
You know, you didn't have a target and there wasn't, you know, Uber eats food was there
00:26:30.920
And he brings it up and he would bring up whatever you're anxious about or I'm anxious
00:26:34.840
about and because it still applies and what he walks them through.
00:26:37.540
And he says, do not be anxious about what you will eat or what you will drink or what
00:26:43.220
And the profound question that he gives is, isn't life more than food and the body more
00:26:50.740
And the reason I think that's profound and if you almost, it wasn't until I really stopped
00:26:55.700
to like think about why would Jesus ask that question?
00:27:02.240
He's not like, hey, guys, I'm really trying to figure this out.
00:27:08.380
It's because he is attempting to put into a bigger perspective their fears.
00:27:14.580
His audience would have, of course, gone, no, life is not food.
00:27:17.980
Or at the end of the day, that's not all that matters in life.
00:27:21.860
And he's trying to, through questions, really do what counselors do today, help them deflate
00:27:26.360
some of the power of their anxiety to more accurately see it.
00:27:29.800
Doesn't make the fear go away, but at least allows you to more accurately see it in order
00:27:35.480
And then Jesus does what I'm kind of saying of like, what if, and helping them play it
00:27:43.300
And then he brings up the truth from God's word where next he goes, you have a heavenly
00:27:48.480
Remember, who's promised to provide for your needs.
00:27:54.120
So he helps them more accurately see the thing that they're afraid of.
00:27:58.440
And then he reinforces, hey, the pagans run after those things, but you have a heavenly
00:28:02.260
father who's promised to provide for your needs.
00:28:06.220
And he really walks through that equation, which is where I really take it from.
00:28:10.860
And so if somebody's battling anxiety, I think chasing it down, chasing those fears down
00:28:16.260
and also holding onto what's true from God's word really has brought a lot of freedom and
00:28:22.380
I think that a lot of us want the promise that our fears won't come true, that you won't
00:28:30.620
be single forever, that your spouse won't die, that nothing will happen to your kids,
00:28:35.940
That's certainly the assurance that I find myself wanting, especially when it comes to
00:28:40.400
I mean, as a mom, like that's where my biggest fears and biggest concerns lie.
00:28:47.560
Are they going to stay healthy and safe in all of these different things?
00:28:51.260
And, you know, there are some things that we hear, some more helpful than others.
00:28:55.860
Like, well, you know, God loves your kids more than you do, which is absolutely true.
00:28:59.800
But then I think because I, you know, I can be so addicted to anxiety.
00:29:03.220
I'm like, well, yeah, God does love my kids more than I do.
00:29:09.560
But also I know that God would allow things to happen to my kids that I wouldn't if I
00:29:22.040
And so I have to remember myself that his faithfulness and goodness is not dependent
00:29:26.940
upon whether or not he allows a certain circumstance or his love for my kids isn't dependent upon
00:29:33.060
what he allows, but it's dependent upon his character, which doesn't change and his commitment
00:29:38.420
to his glory, which might mean that bad things happen.
00:29:44.480
You say, but God, but God is going to meet us there.
00:29:48.760
But God isn't going to change in that circumstance, even if I don't know what to do.
00:29:52.460
Somehow the peace that passes understanding will meet me.
00:29:57.340
And so like you were saying earlier, without the gospel, like there really is no next step
00:30:04.180
after we take our what ifs to their logical conclusion.
00:30:08.060
Because if the end of it is, well, yeah, you know what?
00:30:13.920
And there's nothing I can do about that, which it does.
00:30:16.900
Like, and that what if does suck, but there's nothing after that for comfort, for peace,
00:30:24.920
In fact, what you just brought up, I think is a really, Jesus in the next verse in that
00:30:36.240
And then he uses illustrations where he's like, look at the birds of the air.
00:30:43.360
And then he brings up what I think is one of the most misunderstood verses as it relates
00:30:50.860
So then he transitions the kingdom of God and his righteousness and all these things will
00:30:58.540
So that idea of seek first, it's the same Greek word for prioritize and the word for
00:31:06.280
He just brought up God's will as it relates to prayer 20 verses earlier.
00:31:10.860
So Jesus says, prioritize God's will and God's kingdom for your life above your own.
00:31:19.320
Surrender your kingdom, in other words, and put on the, let there be no competition for
00:31:27.560
And that's the one that's going to sit on the throne and take precedent over my own.
00:31:33.180
And the reason I think that's so relevant and important is most of all of our anxieties
00:31:40.000
And by that, I just mean my desires, my wills, my wants, your desires for your kids, for your
00:31:46.560
And in life, the will of God unfolds in two ways.
00:31:56.340
And we can read it and go like, oh, this is what God wants for marriage, you know, sexuality,
00:32:03.600
That can, that's basically God's sovereignty unfolding in our life.
00:32:08.340
And what Jesus says, the reason I think it's so profound is he basically says, hey, if you
00:32:12.660
can learn to surrender your will, your kingdom, and embrace God's, even when it contradicts
00:32:22.220
Because you getting everything you want in life is not possible.
00:32:27.240
And like you said, we kind of want the promise that like, everything's going to be okay.
00:32:31.100
And everything's always going to go the way that I want, which is crazy.
00:32:33.880
Because if you've lived five minutes, you know, not everything will always go the way
00:32:38.300
So getting everything that I want is not possible.
00:32:43.560
So I can either not have everything always go the way that I want and have anxiety because
00:32:50.480
I don't surrender it and I hold it tightly and I clench onto it, or I can not have everything
00:32:56.880
Having everything I want is not an option, but peace is.
00:33:00.600
And I think Jesus brilliantly brings back, like I said, in 20 verses before Matthew chapter
00:33:06.140
six, he uses the same word of kingdom and will, where he says, this is how you should
00:33:11.900
And Jesus models, furthermore, what it looks like to embrace or seek God's kingdom first,
00:33:16.720
When in the garden in Mark chapter 14, Jesus was faced with overwhelming feelings and he's
00:33:23.240
anxious or he's overwhelmed at the point of grief and sorrow.
00:33:27.860
And he prays a prayer that really reflects, I think, that surrendering your kingdom and
00:33:32.780
seeking God's, where he says, God, please let this cup pass.
00:33:36.620
Please let my kids not get sick or something happen to their health.
00:33:46.100
And I think the more we can get in the habit of, there was a time where our daughter was
00:33:50.780
flagged with a chromosomal disorder when we were pregnant.
00:33:55.300
So we found out we were not, no, 12 weeks pregnant.
00:34:03.220
We were pumped and we got a phone call from the doctor at 930.
00:34:06.680
Which immediately, you know, like doctors don't call at 930 on a Wednesday just to be
00:34:12.940
I mean, it's hard to even get in touch with them most of the time.
00:34:19.420
My wife, she's clearly on the phone, puts it on speaker and is like, hey, it's the doctor
00:34:23.580
So y'all had just had like the blood test that you do around 10 weeks.
00:34:27.020
How long had it been between that test and when the doctor called?
00:34:34.160
So y'all were kind of waiting on the gender and things like that?
00:34:39.560
And you normally get an envelope and you go put it in a cupcake or whatever, the color,
00:34:45.060
And she says, hey, I wanted you to know you're having a daughter.
00:34:49.700
And the reason we know you're having a daughter is because she's been flagged for a chromosomal
00:34:56.080
And if she has it, there's a 99% chance that she will die.
00:35:02.000
And if she's in the 1% that makes it, then she will have severe complications with her
00:35:08.400
She'll have to have immediate heart surgery or heart transplant.
00:35:11.220
And she'll never be able to have kids, be able to have kids and have complications for
00:35:17.440
And it was like, honestly, I get emotional to talk about it because it was like a bomb went
00:35:22.380
You're like, that, that those scenes in movies when a bomb goes off and all you hear is the
00:35:26.860
ringing and things feel like they're speed up and slow down at the same time.
00:35:30.680
And, uh, and that put us on a journey of praying every day.
00:35:35.280
God, we don't want our daughter to die for the next six months.
00:35:40.800
And it was in that season, you know, I wish I, as a pastor could say every moment of that
00:35:48.420
season of, of some of the highest levels of anxiety I've ever felt was one that, you know,
00:35:52.580
we surrendered and gave him to God and had peace.
00:35:57.040
But what I can say is every moment I had peace was every moment that I had peace.
00:36:04.660
In other words, was marked by a posture of God.
00:36:06.780
We don't want our daughter to die, but if that's your will, and I can't understand how
00:36:11.480
that would be your will and how that could be something that is a part of your plan.
00:36:15.280
But if that's your will, we trust you or we're trying to trust you.
00:36:20.060
And every moment that was the posture of our heart, there was a peace that I can't put into
00:36:24.660
words that I experienced what Paul was describing.
00:36:27.660
And it's not like you're going, or we were going to thwart the will of God either way.
00:36:34.800
It's natural and normal, but in those moments of surrendering it, we experienced peace.
00:36:39.220
And then six months later, either miraculously or, or there was a false flagging and she was
00:36:46.640
And sometimes the flagging is accurate or sometimes the miracle doesn't happen.
00:36:53.500
So she didn't have that disorder and y'all didn't find out until she was born?
00:36:58.540
We couldn't without, there's a test, you may know it better than I would.
00:37:02.060
There's a test they can do with a needle that increases the risk of...
00:37:05.620
Yeah, or they test the amniotic fluid or something like that.
00:37:09.620
It was something that would increase the rate of miscarriage.
00:37:17.440
And, um, and so, and they couldn't test until she was out of the womb.
00:37:22.160
And, uh, and so every day though, we were in, the more we went through it and the more
00:37:28.480
That's a long time to have those fears and to feel the unknown.
00:37:32.220
And, uh, and I think God, I taught on this subject so many times before, but in that
00:37:38.480
season, God was at least growing in my heart and my faith, um, my confidence in him and
00:37:44.460
putting into practice the things that I had taught on somebody.
00:37:47.700
It just becomes so much more real when you're like, God, man, we don't want our daughter
00:37:54.000
And your will comes before my will, your kingdom before my kingdom.
00:37:57.280
And I can't understand how that would be the case.
00:38:01.980
And so I think, uh, even the, the word of control, cause it feels so hard to give up
00:38:13.780
And that we talk about it as though it's something we have.
00:38:20.560
And the reason that's a, I think not a great way to put it is it's like saying I struggle
00:38:28.840
You know, my kids will be like, and my son will push over his sister and he'll go like,
00:38:44.180
And control is one of those things where even we say, I struggle with control.
00:38:46.840
It's like, no, you struggle with not having control.
00:38:54.260
And so having control is not an option, but peace is because you know the God who does
00:39:00.060
So that was by far the most real experience of that in our life.
00:39:04.160
And so what you're saying is the surrender was a continual thing that it didn't just
00:39:16.980
Or even I surrendered for this minute and I'm good for the minute that it sometimes it had
00:39:21.420
to be a continual Holy Spirit empowered choice to say, I'm feeling anxious.
00:39:30.120
And which is why Jesus is teaching, I think is so brilliant because in the passage, you
00:39:34.660
know, we're talking about Matthew six and surrendering and seeking God's kingdom.
00:39:37.760
The next verse he goes to is take each day, moment by moment, day by day, you're going
00:39:48.420
And it is a ongoing moment by moment surrender.
00:39:51.700
Anxiety will be with us the rest of our life and to go through and take each day and surrender
00:39:57.220
moment by moment is really the way that we battle it because it isn't just like, oh,
00:40:03.340
We go through life and then boom, I'm anxious again about those feelings.
00:40:07.360
But each time they happen, I can choose to surrender your will, your kingdom before my
00:40:12.120
And he is not saying that if you don't have anxiety or you're not worried about something,
00:40:18.440
then you're not going to have any trouble because he says sufficient for the day is its
00:40:25.840
You have trouble, you have problems, but you can only deal with what you can deal with today.
00:40:31.080
You can't deal with the trouble that may or may not happen tomorrow.
00:40:34.220
And I think one of the most comforting things that he also says in that chapter is who of
00:40:39.520
you by worrying can add a single hour to his life.
00:40:42.820
That is super convicting because if I'm honest with myself, that is kind of what I think that
00:40:48.380
I'm doing when I'm thinking through these what if scenarios.
00:40:51.860
I actually think that I'm, and maybe it is somewhat preparation, like you were saying,
00:40:56.580
playing out those, you know, logical conclusions of my anxieties.
00:41:01.820
But I almost think that if I worry about something or if I think about something as terrible as
00:41:07.780
cancer, then somehow it's not going to happen because I don't know, that's so superstitious
00:41:14.040
But I do think that we almost think that we are giving control to ourselves by thinking
00:41:21.620
Somehow we are diminishing the possibility of them happening.
00:41:25.000
And Jesus is like, you can't even add a single hour.
00:41:28.160
Not one hour is added to your life by worrying, which tells us, you know, God is the author
00:41:37.560
What's the point of even trying to add minutes to our lives, to our kids' lives, even a minute
00:41:42.280
to our careers, whatever it is, if we just don't even have the authority to do that in
00:41:49.360
In fact, the irony of the brilliance of that statement to your point is, you know, now
00:41:53.900
medicine and medical fields tell us worrying doesn't add to your life.
00:41:59.580
Like Charles Mayo from the Mayo Clinic wrote about, I've never seen somebody die from symptoms
00:42:05.580
related to overwork, but I've seen many people die from symptoms related to anxiety.
00:42:10.560
It affects your adrenal glands, it affects your heart rate, it affects all those things.
00:42:14.400
And so it is brilliant that Jesus is just pointing out, let's at least all agree, worrying
00:42:23.120
It just robs you of your ability to be present to, you know, in this moment here.
00:42:33.200
I think that we have to end there, although I could talk for a lot longer about this.
00:42:37.580
If people want to know more, if they want to hear more from you, or if they want to
00:42:42.440
read your book, which I certainly encourage everyone to do, where can they buy it?
00:42:47.400
Anywhere books are sold, Amazon, Barnes and Noble.
00:42:53.880
Oh, I really want to say that I purchase books from like the local indie bookstore, but I
00:43:00.860
Yes, I, Jeff Bezos, you know, lines his pockets with all of my book purchases from Amazon.
00:43:12.120
I was like, does anybody buy books other than that?
00:43:13.960
And I've heard from so many people are like, yes, I want the physical copy that moment that
00:43:18.500
So if that's you, you can get a Barnes and Noble or wherever books are sold.
00:43:21.840
I bet it's on christianbooks.com too, which is maybe a good alternative.
00:43:26.320
That's a better alternative, christianbooks.com.
00:43:29.000
And then if you want to know more about The Porch, you can go to the porch.live if you
00:43:32.880
are in any of the 15 cities, whether that's Phoenix, Arizona, or Tulsa, Oklahoma, or Boise,
00:43:39.420
Idaho, or any, you can go to the porch.live and find locations near you, or if you're in