Relatable with Allie Beth Stuckey - Ep 528 ｜ What Progressive Christianity & Prosperity Gospel Get Wrong About Jesus ｜ Guest： Costi Hinn

00:00:00.000 Hey guys, welcome to Relatable. Today I am talking to Kosti Hinn. He has written multiple

00:00:16.440 books. He has recently written the book More Than a Healer, and we're going to talk about

00:00:23.040 that today. We're going to talk some about social justice. We're going to talk about

00:00:26.280 the prosperity gospel. If you don't know, Kosti Hinn is the nephew of Benny Hinn, the very

00:00:31.160 famous televangelist, prosperity preacher. Our last conversation that we had several months

00:00:36.740 ago, we'll link it in the description to this episode, talked about coming out of the prosperity

00:00:42.200 gospel world and how he came to know the true gospel and how Kosti became a pastor. And so

00:00:51.100 we talked about his testimony and why it's so important that we talk to people who are sucked 0.91

00:00:58.660 into the prosperity gospel and present them with that which is actually true. And we're

00:01:04.180 going to talk a little bit more about that today as well as some other hot topic issues. He's

00:01:08.920 such a great person, an awesome author. You're going to enjoy this conversation so much. So

00:01:14.400 without further ado, here is Kosti Hinn. Kosti, thank you so much for joining us again. I'm really

00:01:22.460 excited to talk to you. Last time we talked about your first book or your last book, and now you've

00:01:28.380 written another book, More Than a Healer. Can you tell us why you wrote this book? Yeah, I was going

00:01:35.260 through a season, I think like most people, where 2020 was happening and it became sort of an

00:01:41.500 illustration. People would say that's so 2020 or man, what 2020 couldn't do already that it hasn't

00:01:46.640 done. And so as I was sitting at home and we were holding services here in Arizona, Arizona is kind

00:01:52.440 of like the wild, wild west. So during COVID and some of that stuff, we were freewheeling and going.

00:01:57.660 And I noticed so many people in despair. The world was going crazy. There were race wars, social justice

00:02:03.080 issues, people storming everything. I was just in Atlanta recently right around where protesters smashed

00:02:09.400 in windows. The streets were going crazy. You covered a lot of it really well. And I just started

00:02:14.500 thinking pastorally, we need Jesus, like for real. We need a Jesus awakening. And we do need, you know,

00:02:21.660 to assess justice and social justice the right way. And we need our pastors to stand strong. And we need

00:02:26.780 people like you and others to have courage. And we need to stand for conviction. And we should be

00:02:31.220 involved in the political forum and bringing conservative Christian views to the table and fighting for our

00:02:36.620 freedom. In the midst of all that, though, I wanted to make sure that pastorally, I was guiding people

00:02:42.520 to Jesus through it all. So the goal isn't just to win our ideological war, but the goal is to still

00:02:49.200 glorify Christ and exalt him. And there's a lot of hurting people that were spinning in confusion.

00:02:54.760 They don't have answers. They're not as well studied as you or as me or as other people on these issues.

00:02:59.200 And they're going, who do I believe? What do I do? The world is spinning. And I felt like people

00:03:04.120 needed a Jesus awakening and a reminder of who is really on the throne.

00:03:08.020 Yeah. And tell us about the title and why you chose the title. Because when I see it,

00:03:13.700 I think about your background, obviously, coming from the name it and claim it prosperity gospel

00:03:20.140 in which you grew up, in which maybe God was seen not just as this immediate healer,

00:03:25.220 but also as someone who is going to provide you with the financial material blessings that you earn

00:03:34.080 by declaring it, by manifesting it, by your faith, whatever it is. So when I saw that title,

00:03:43.280 that's kind of where my mind went, knowing your background. But can you kind of give us some context?

00:03:49.280 Totally. It all plays into where people were naming and claiming the COVID virus gone or naming and

00:03:56.620 claiming and prophesying whoever was going to be president. And people name and claim their job

00:04:00.800 promotion, their Bentley, their bigger house. They shout out into the airwaves like Joel Osteen will tell

00:04:06.660 them, you know, just profess it and confess it and then you'll possess it. And everyone's going to Jesus

00:04:12.560 to get what they want from them. He's like a magic genie. And if you say this or believe this or give

00:04:19.920 this, he'll do it. And I thought, yeah, Jesus is completely a healer. The Bible paints him as a

00:04:26.060 healer and he can heal our nation and he can heal your financial issues as long as you're not racking

00:04:31.480 your credit card and then expecting God to pay it off. But true poverty and challenges that you're

00:04:35.660 going, Lord, I need you to help and heal this season in our life. He can heal a marriage. He can heal the

00:04:40.920 body. He could heal all these things. But people are going to him for always what he can do. They

00:04:46.080 want the healing, the healing, the healing. And this book is pointing them to the healer. We went

00:04:50.520 through that personally. Three months into our third son's, our third child's life, our son Timothy

00:04:57.820 was diagnosed with a rare form of cancer. And I remember thinking, wow, we're actually going to live

00:05:01.620 what I've been preaching about God being sovereign and this world not truly being our home and about

00:05:09.140 Jesus still being good even when things are not, whether in our country or in our own lives. And so

00:05:15.680 it was a personal kind of writing project out of my heart, pastorally and practically in our home,

00:05:24.000 around our community, and I think in our world today where people are chasing Jesus for all that he can

00:05:29.620 do. And they are forgetting all the other facets of who he is. So chapter one, he is healer.

00:05:35.440 Absolutely. But also we want to be careful, demanding that he heal and saying he has to,

00:05:41.520 because we named it and claimed it and had enough faith and see that he's still hope. He's still

00:05:46.300 peace. He's still good. He's still justice. He's still sovereign, even in the midst of all the

00:05:51.340 craziness going on around us. When you were dealing with your son's cancer and you, as you said,

00:06:01.780 you recognized, oh, wow, I'm going to actually live out the thing that I have been preaching about

00:06:07.960 for a while. What did that look like practically on a day-to-day basis for you? What did your prayers

00:06:13.820 look like? Was there a struggle there when you know, you know that God's sovereign, you know that

00:06:20.380 he's still good. That's not dependent upon our circumstance. And yet when it's your child, I mean,

00:06:24.260 that is every parent's worst nightmare to say, how, you know, how could God let this happen while still

00:06:30.600 knowing that he's still faithful and merciful. So, so what did that kind of coming to terms look like

00:06:37.660 for you guys? Yeah, I'd love to say that I was this stalwart warrior and had zero emotion while

00:06:43.700 my wife was a basket case. And I was just a pillar of strength and never had a doubt in my mind.

00:06:48.120 Here's the reality. The moment my wife walked into the kitchen with the report, she began to cry. 0.99

00:06:53.580 And when she said the C word, I began to tear up as well. I sat down on the kitchen table chair.

00:06:58.960 She sat down on my lap. I held her. She did cry. And the only things I could think of were to say,

00:07:04.240 we weren't going to get out of this life unscathed and we're going to live what I've been preaching.

00:07:08.800 But I had the same fear. I had the same concerns. And yet when you look at scripture and when you truly

00:07:15.080 believe what we profess to believe, the emotions, they come and go, but what you know remains. And so

00:07:23.240 I had normal and natural thoughts. Okay, God, I might bury my son on this side of heaven.

00:07:29.700 He may not bury me. Be our strength, be our peace, be our hope, make it, make our faith real,

00:07:36.080 make, make us strong in our moment of weakness because you're our strength. And then there were

00:07:40.440 other honest fears. And I'll share this with you, Allie. My family, I remember thinking, oh, great.

00:07:46.580 I know what they're going to say. Because I used to say this to people. Your son got struck with

00:07:52.180 cancer because you touched the Lord's anointed. You called out the prosperity gospel. You called

00:07:56.760 out Uncle Benny. You called out this guy. So you're talking about like your, which part of

00:08:02.360 your family, just for the people who might not be even familiar with your background?

00:08:06.120 Yeah. So my uncle is Benny Hinn, the guy in the white suit who does a lot of the prosperity gospel

00:08:10.400 stuff. And these TV preachers, you've seen it, I've seen it. If people haven't,

00:08:15.000 just Google this, they will shout at cameras on the TV. Kenneth Copeland, he hit Inside Edition

00:08:19.800 this last year. I mean, a lot of them still going strong. They will look in the camera and they'll

00:08:24.220 tell you, don't you dare call out the anointed. Don't you dare question. Don't you dare touch the 0.98

00:08:29.700 Lord's anointed. They'll use kind of a Bible phrase, but twisted. And they'll say, if you do,

00:08:36.080 you will be cursed. Cancer will strike your home. Poverty will find you. They do all these threats

00:08:41.200 and it's a form of spiritual abuse. Don't come at me. Don't you say anything. It's a mafia gag

00:08:47.000 order. So you were afraid that your own family who are still in that world would say the reason

00:08:52.800 that your son has cancer is because you have criticized those health and wealth preachers,

00:08:57.440 including your uncle. Yeah. And right away, as much as the, oh, great thoughts came, I thought,

00:09:04.220 no, no, no. What have we studied? What do we know? Throughout the New Testament, Paul the apostle

00:09:08.540 called out false teachers. And these are verified false teachers. You look at what the Bible teaches

00:09:13.460 and you look at what they teach and they're completely opposite. And we did an episode on

00:09:17.760 that. I would encourage people just go to Ali's YouTube channel. We dove into that and made it

00:09:21.780 clear. And at the same time, Jesus called out the Pharisees who were adding to the words of God and

00:09:28.180 putting burdens on people they couldn't even carry. And so I go back to what I know in the midst of the

00:09:33.260 emotions and think, no, no matter what they say, it's a great opportunity to say, nope, God's good

00:09:38.400 still. Nope. God's sovereign. But let me go one layer further in the conversation. The Lord opened

00:09:43.760 the door for my wife and I to even walk through family members and friends in the televangelist

00:09:49.960 prosperity gospel world who have cancer, who have heart conditions, who have wives that have cancer,

00:09:56.180 who have had issues they've hidden. And so without being sensationalistic and without being aggressive,

00:10:01.060 we just sat there and said, what about this person? What about this one? What about this one?

00:10:06.180 Don't you guys see that Job was righteous and he got hit? Jesus was crucified. All the apostles were 0.95

00:10:12.360 martyred except for John, but he withered away on Patmos. Everybody who lives godly for Christ is

00:10:19.160 going to be persecuted and suffer. Do you really think that this is because I called out complete

00:10:24.800 abuse and those were neat conversations? And so again, emotions come, but we stick to what we know

00:10:30.940 and the Lord opened some doors. Those weren't always comfortable conversations, but thank the

00:10:35.520 Lord, most of them ended well.

00:10:37.120 Yeah. He used that suffering for his glory, which is the promise that we have. Not that life is going

00:10:42.760 to be easier, that we're going to have material possessions or material prosperity, but that God is

00:10:49.160 going to use the suffering that is sure for his glory and for our ultimate good. And that's the thing

00:10:58.160 that we have to hold on to. And I do wonder, what is typically the response of those who do believe

00:11:05.240 that God's favor equals material prosperity? What you just laid out is so clear and so biblical. It's

00:11:13.240 hard for me to understand how someone could even deny that and say that it's not biblical. What is the

00:11:19.300 typical response of you pointing out Job, the apostles, the suffering of God's faithful servants?

00:11:26.500 I think in my experience, the responses are usually emotional. And so people will say,

00:11:33.120 well, you just, you don't understand, or you're just jaded, or you're just, and so it gets a little

00:11:38.500 ad hominem and character assaults. But some people will try to make the argument from the other side

00:11:44.020 and say, well, Solomon was wealthy. What about Solomon? And David was a king and this, but I would

00:11:48.980 still say, okay, but trouble found them. Solomon went through incredible suffering and turmoil.

00:11:58.240 David, I mean, Solomon blew it. We could just sit and do a whole episode on his issues with sin and

00:12:03.360 too many women and all of this, but God gave him wisdom and riches and he still messed the whole thing

00:12:07.700 up. And then the kingdom divides. David, sure, a wealthy king commits adultery. God reprimands him,

00:12:14.600 loses a son. And then Psalm 51, he says, against you and only you have I sinned. And he repents.

00:12:20.760 And then the broken and contrite heart, the Lord honors. So I don't care. I don't care who you

00:12:25.840 mention. All of them, every single person suffers and endures trial. And so I try to engage people on

00:12:33.440 that level. And then some people just say, well, I refuse to be negative. I refuse to give into that

00:12:40.420 spirit of unbelief. I will prosper. I am the head. And what they're doing is they're repeating

00:12:45.760 what they saw on the TV program with Osteen or that, you know, their Oprah Winfrey one-liner that

00:12:53.040 they throw out there. And they hold onto those because they don't know the scriptures. They don't

00:12:59.180 have truth. They don't have the healer. They're just chasing the healing. And so that's why we do what

00:13:04.680 we do is we're trying to get into the minds of those people, which is where spiritual warfare

00:13:09.100 happens. They are stuck in a mindset that dictates how they believe. And that is spiritual warfare.

00:13:18.500 The devil loves that stuff. He loves messing with their minds and throwing up material things

00:13:22.700 to lure them in. Yeah. And there are two different kinds of people professing Christians that it sounds

00:13:29.720 like you're talking about. Because kind of at the beginning of this conversation, you touched on

00:13:34.820 the professing progressive Christians, as they might call themselves, those who believe that Jesus was

00:13:41.000 some sort of activist, that Jesus justifies their, you know, left-wing social justice position. And then

00:13:49.080 you've got people on the other side, which I don't really know necessarily their political

00:13:55.300 affiliation. Maybe most of them do identify as Republicans or conservatives. That seems to be

00:14:00.420 the case. But they see Jesus as someone, like you said, who is just going to give them things.

00:14:08.020 And so the book that you wrote, does it address kind of both sides of that fallacy? The progressive

00:14:15.300 Christian who says, well, you know, Jesus is just an activist who wants me to do what I want to do.

00:14:20.220 And then the other side that says, Jesus is just a genie who's going to give me what I want him to

00:14:25.580 give me. Do you kind of talk about both of those, how they differ and what they share?

00:14:31.460 Yeah. So there were two kind of bookends for me, the front half, which locks in on that he's a healer,

00:14:39.100 but not always the way we want. And then the goodness of God, I put some charts in there and

00:14:43.520 showcase people and their pain. And then the purpose of it, that's for the crowd that says, you know,

00:14:49.020 it's always God's will to heal. It's always God's will. He just wants me this. So we deal with that

00:14:52.960 at the front end. But to be honest, one of the most exciting chapters for me was a chapter called

00:14:58.520 He is Justice. And I define justice biblically, and it isn't smashing in the windows of your

00:15:06.220 downtown city center and looting. And it's not, you know, overthrowing every form of authority and,

00:15:14.440 you know, going into classrooms and redefining gender. It is a Jesus kind of justice. So number

00:15:20.480 one, I talk about the justice of God and his wrath pointed at the center. And the justice we truly need

00:15:26.820 is the justification through Christ. And so we put Christ front and center. But then I talk about all

00:15:32.620 the biblical ways that we can seek justice as Christians, because you and I both know, we're not

00:15:37.600 just going to sit around and go, well, let the world burn. We're not going to figure it out. We've been

00:15:41.100 fighting for freedom. And we've been standing for those who are aborted, the unborn, the innocent,

00:15:48.280 bloodshed over the last decades in our country. There are many forms of justice that Christians 1.00

00:15:54.260 can and should fight for. And so I go through 10 marks of biblical justice, or what I like to call the

00:16:00.760 Jesus style justice. And to be honest, it's going to mess with people. It's going to mess with

00:16:05.920 the extreme left that want to go way too far into justice. And to be honest, it might even mess with

00:16:13.700 some people on the extreme right that have made up their own definitions of justice in the name of

00:16:18.560 some sort of spiritual crusade. But it brings it back to, I think, what you, what myself, what so

00:16:25.700 many others are trying to lobby for when people say, oh, so this and that, well, then you're just a

00:16:31.560 racist. Oh, you don't believe this or this. And then you bring up abortion and they say, well,

00:16:35.680 what about this form and this form? And everybody wants to run off to the branches. I just wanted

00:16:40.600 to keep us on the trunk. Here's what scripture says. I know you got your own ideas. I know you

00:16:44.960 got your own definition of oppression. And I know you got your own definition of what whiteness is and 0.52

00:16:49.700 white privilege. And I know you're having a good time overthrowing authority because you're tired of

00:16:53.660 whatever system you think is the system. And you're trying to get yours now and get paid. But listen to

00:16:58.060 me. This is what Jesus says justice is. You and I don't have the right to try to redefine it because

00:17:04.480 we're going into some Marxist theory and getting crazy in 2020 and 2021. So I, with respect to everyone's

00:17:11.500 views, read the chapter and wrestle with scripture. It's not my own idea.

00:17:20.280 When you mention the left going too far into justice, what you mean, and I think, and what I also

00:17:27.200 mean too, is not that they are just so passionate and overzealous about justice, but actually that

00:17:33.040 they've redefined it to mean something that God doesn't actually define it as. Justice is

00:17:39.360 righteousness. There is only one true righteous one, and that is God. So He created justice. And we

00:17:44.440 have the privilege. I actually, you know, talked to a Christian leader once. She's a very popular

00:17:49.320 Christian leader. And we had some disagreements about so-called racial justice and social justice.

00:17:53.760 And, you know, I brought to her attention, you know, this thing that was said, I don't see it

00:17:58.500 aligning with scripture. It doesn't actually seem biblical. And she actually said to me,

00:18:02.620 well, what if, and I'm telling you, this is a popular non-progressive Christian teacher. She said,

00:18:08.400 well, what if we don't think about justice in terms of biblical or unbiblical? How about we just

00:18:12.740 think of it as non-biblical? And that is really, I mean, that's upsetting to me. This is a Bible teacher

00:18:19.440 who has lots and lots of influence. We are so privileged that the Bible does explicitly talk about

00:18:26.040 justice so clearly and so much that we don't have to have a non-biblical, secular view of it. I mean,

00:18:34.220 it's impossible. So, I mean, I guess my question to you is, I mean, this is a person who would consider

00:18:39.540 herself a conservative teacher, a conservative Christian who a lot of people follow, and yet

00:18:45.240 that is her view of justice, I guess, apparently, and how we should approach it. Like, do you see

00:18:51.100 a problem within not just the far-left church, but just mainstream evangelicalism, mainstream

00:18:57.360 Christianity of pastors and teachers not being able to approach the subject of justice in a way that is

00:19:03.360 biblically clear? I see that problem. And so I want to hear your take on it.

00:19:08.680 Yeah, we have an authority of scripture issue. So in the list that I put in the book, one of them is

00:19:12.800 love your neighbor. Okay, everybody knows that that comes from the Bible. Love the Lord your God

00:19:19.140 with all your heart, mind, soul, and strength. Then love your neighbor as yourself. This is

00:19:22.440 the greatest commandment. This is Jesus making it clear. The problem is when we define love your

00:19:28.160 neighbor as the way we want to, but I can't. I have to love my neighbor the way scripture would direct,

00:19:33.840 which is going to be first to love them in truth, and second, to see needs and meet needs,

00:19:39.580 like the Good Samaritan. All the religious people stepped over the beaten up Jewish man, 0.53

00:19:43.940 and the Good Samaritan, even though he can't stand the Jews, says, ah, I should probably help this guy.

00:19:48.320 That's just general kindness to humanity. No one is lobbying that we abandon that. The problem is when

00:19:55.060 we give in to the cultural cries. The problem is when, well, that are unbiblical cries, and that are

00:20:01.000 just a push to overthrow authority. And then the problem ultimately is when the authority of scripture

00:20:05.560 goes out the window, like your friend who says, well, what if we didn't get into all the biblical,

00:20:09.820 unbiblical, but we just, and then we're off the reservation. There is a major problem. And here's

00:20:16.560 what I can only surmise, is there's two groups. You have the darker motives, which this is just like

00:20:23.220 any category in scripture. You've got like false teachers that are genuinely trying to get rich.

00:20:27.720 I think you have people who are in the justice wars to get paid. And I think of that when I look

00:20:36.240 at various teachers, and I look at people go on YouTube, and these prominent, once really clear,

00:20:41.800 faithful, gospel-centered guys are getting on their whatever program, and they're shouting about

00:20:47.760 reparations, and they're saying, gold, hallelujah, like Eric Mason did. And he goes, and land,

00:20:53.400 hallelujah, and they want their retribution. Why are we saying gold, hallelujah, land, hallelujah,

00:20:58.120 like it's about getting rich? If you want justice, let there be justice. But if you want more stuff,

00:21:03.800 well, then now we're into some prosperity gospel that's just using justice to get there. But then

00:21:07.880 I think you have this whole other crowd that are genuinely broken and hurting for humanity,

00:21:12.500 and they want to see justice. And that's the crowd that I would say I want to engage and form the

00:21:19.640 approach through Scripture, like you're saying. And then we all submit together, not because someone's

00:21:25.320 convincing, and not because we're scared of being called white, privileged, racist, or because we're

00:21:31.760 scared of people slandering us. But truly, we want truth, and we want true justice. So yeah, left,

00:21:38.540 right, all that, it can get extreme. I think in the end, we have what has always been an issue regarding

00:21:45.140 the authority of Scripture. Last thing I'll throw out to you, Allie. Do you remember kind of church 0.98

00:21:49.300 history gone by, but not that old, the Chicago Statement on Inerrancy, and guys like R.C. Sproul

00:21:55.320 and John MacArthur fighting for that? I think that was like in the 90s or 80s? I don't remember.

00:22:01.060 It was even back before. Yeah, these wars were going on kind of through the 70s even and into the 80s.

00:22:06.040 But what for us now, you and I, we're younger, so that's like 30 years. That's church history now,

00:22:11.320 the 40, 50 years. But the issue was authority. Here's how I think Satan works. He is not very

00:22:19.260 creative. He's just sneaky. He goes, let me take the same old issue. Let me undermine the authority

00:22:28.060 of what Scripture says. Let me just pick a new way to do it. So Eve in the garden, did God really say,

00:22:34.620 Eve? Oh, surely you won't die. Eat the fruit. Go for it. Inerrancy of Scripture, ecumenical

00:22:41.300 councils, ecumenical partnerships, all with the Catholic Church and this church and that church,

00:22:46.420 and things start getting a little squirrely. And guys go, well, we want to all just kind of go

00:22:50.380 along to get along. Guys like Sproul and MacArthur and others go, no, this is what it is. And people

00:22:55.460 attack the historicity and the inerrancy of Scripture. They stand. And then now it's just a new

00:23:02.840 face on, I think, what is an old strategy. And Satan's using social justice wars and the issues

00:23:10.380 of our day to attack. And so what we're watching is the result of 30 years of illiteracy, biblically.

00:23:18.140 We're watching the result of 30 years of playing church in the American church and going to your

00:23:24.420 Rick Warren purpose-driven life, happy-go-lucky Disneyland campus and letting the pastor punch your

00:23:30.940 ticket to heaven, stick you on the train and drive you all there and write books and have an awesome

00:23:35.940 whatever. And then you're looking at your 21-year-old going, what do you, I don't get it. Raise a fist

00:23:41.640 for what? Oh, okay. I just want you to like me still as your parent because I have no spine and I

00:23:46.380 don't know Scripture. And I raised you by giving you to the youth pastor that had skinny jeans and

00:23:51.780 emo hair. And this is supposed to work. And I'm not being insulting. This is reality. We grew up in

00:23:57.460 this. We were this. So I want to lobby again for the authority of Scripture, truth being the filter

00:24:04.420 through Scripture, that which I pass everything through, and then submit and rest in the Lord.

00:24:11.760 Yeah. This really isn't about, and I want people to hear this, this really isn't us talking about

00:24:16.340 Democrat versus Republican or even left versus right. We're talking about all different kinds of people

00:24:22.780 really that could be on either side of the aisle, especially when it comes to things like the

00:24:27.380 prosperity gospel. That's not necessarily a political ideology. What you're talking about

00:24:32.640 is the authority of Scripture and getting to who Jesus actually is, not just for what He gives us,

00:24:38.640 but who He is. And who He is and reliance on His authority and His Word is what informs us on

00:24:45.600 these very important issues. I mean, justice is super important. True oppression is really important.

00:24:50.840 Knowing what restoration and true reconciliation looks like, those things are really important.

00:24:56.500 And then healing is important to people. People go through suffering. People need some kind of

00:25:02.120 financial help and material help. All of these things are real. I think what Satan does, and as you said,

00:25:07.560 not a creative way, in just different ways, in different forms that he's done forever,

00:25:13.120 is he takes things that are good. He takes concepts that are good. And instead of saying,

00:25:18.500 oh, you say that you want justice, well, I'm going to tempt you to, you know, go towards injustice. He

00:25:25.740 just inverts it. He manipulates it. All he has to say is, did God really say what justice is? Did God

00:25:32.680 really say that about suffering? Did God really say that about X, Y, Z? And then as you said, okay,

00:25:39.160 well, now we're in the non-biblical territory. We go off to the races towards things that are completely 0.98

00:25:44.480 anti-gospel and anti-biblical, and then people wonder, how the heck did I wind up here? How did

00:25:49.520 I start deconstructing my faith? When did I end up completely leaving the faith? Well, it started

00:25:54.940 with saying, did God really say, and you agreeing with Satan, that maybe he really didn't mean what

00:26:00.480 God, what he said?

00:26:03.100 Yeah. And let me for a moment speak to your friend, if they happen to see this video, and

00:26:08.000 even some of my friends who I love and I talk to privately, that I would call now religious

00:26:13.560 entrepreneurs. They're religious entrepreneurs. You're scared to lose your platform. You're scared

00:26:18.380 to lose all your followers. You're scared to lose your conference invite. You're scared to lose the

00:26:22.440 viewership. You're scared to lose the Instagram clout. You don't answer to Instagram followers. You

00:26:28.560 don't answer to the conference honorarium. You don't answer to the big dog that's here on earth trying

00:26:33.640 to build their platform. We answer to Christ. So if you're going to stand up and say, I'm a leader

00:26:40.280 for Christ, well, you better be following Christ. And I mean that in love. I'm not going to name names

00:26:45.420 in this portion, but you know who they are, Allie. So do I. There's this whole wave of people that are

00:26:51.020 chameleons. They start blending in wherever they go, and they're after one thing to build their thing.

00:26:59.380 And I get it. They'll say, well, I want to glorify God through this, and I want to be able to take

00:27:03.540 the gospel in the places that normally it won't go. No problem. Get the invite to the big conference,

00:27:09.360 stand up on the stage, and do your job so well that they either get saved or never invite you back.

00:27:15.180 But we answer to Jesus. The judgment seat of Christ is coming, and I think you've done a great

00:27:20.700 job living in almost two worlds. You go into the political forum, and you bring it, but you're always

00:27:25.140 pointing back to the glory of God. You swing into the more church circles, and you bring clear ideology

00:27:31.800 and clear conviction to that. In the end, I know for you and getting to talk with you and see your

00:27:37.760 resume of faith out in the open is you're living for Christ. And that's how we all ought to be. So

00:27:43.500 to encourage those of you watching, trying to figure all this out, and maybe some of you that are

00:27:48.100 on the, at the crossroad of what to do now, who cares? Abandon it all so long as you're pleasing Christ.

00:27:56.500 And I do think, just thinking about the people I know in my life who are genuine believers,

00:28:05.920 they're not false teachers, they're not false believers. I know, I see the fruit, but who are

00:28:11.480 confused about some of the things that we're talking about, who might think that there is some

00:28:14.760 third way, there's some non-biblical option to looking at these justice issues or what seem like

00:28:20.400 these secular issues. They are genuine believers, and I don't think that they are selfish, but there

00:28:25.620 is, like you said, there is this component of people pleasing and being afraid that, okay,

00:28:32.300 if they truly are biblical about whatever this controversial topic is, then they'll be seen as

00:28:37.160 unempathetic. That's the huge one, or a bigot, or whatever it is. That really is their fear. And it

00:28:43.620 comes from a place originally of love, but I think sometimes it leads to a place of compromise. So just

00:28:49.560 giving the most benefit of the doubt that I would also want to receive if they thought that I was

00:28:53.300 an error, I do think that's a motivation for a lot of people. But I would say, I would direct them to

00:28:58.100 you and to your book and to the words that you just said to bring them back to the center to

00:29:02.780 what is actually true. Yeah, the third way is not about redefining truth and, well, here's something

00:29:10.320 clear and here's something clear. Well, I choose this. The third way is not trying to redefine some middle

00:29:14.800 of the road. Right now, you go middle of the road on too much, you're going to get run over,

00:29:17.760 and probably for good reason because you're not taking a stand. The third way, if we want to have

00:29:22.240 a third way, here's a third way. There's indifference and there's hatred. Indifference

00:29:26.620 is whatever, who cares? Hatred is, oh, I'm going to get them all. Okay, here's a third way. Love.

00:29:33.500 Don't be angry. Be kind. But it doesn't need to lead to compromise on truth. The third way is just

00:29:40.940 be like the good Samaritan. Don't be indifferent and don't be a, excuse me to use the word, but

00:29:47.000 don't be a jerk. Don't be nasty. You don't need to be angry. Like it's your work. Here's a third way.

00:29:52.380 Be loving and kind, but be clear and truthful. Speak hard truth through tear-stained eyes. But

00:29:57.720 the third way is not, well, let's not take a position. No, no, no, no, no. Just be loving.

00:30:03.940 But realize like Warren Wiersbe once so helpfully said, he said, you know, uh, love without truth,

00:30:11.620 sorry, truth without love is brutality. Love without truth is hypocrisy. One of my favorite

00:30:17.440 quotes. I'm a hypocrite if I don't bring the truth. And then I'm just brutal if I'm angry. So

00:30:21.340 there's your third way, but it doesn't involve compromise on truth. Yeah. And just to bring it

00:30:25.880 back, that's exactly what Jesus demonstrates. That's what he embodies in his ministry. There are

00:30:31.420 things that he says that offend me as a sinner. And yet he does so because he loves us. And that

00:30:37.280 is essentially what your book brings us back to. So where can everyone find it?

00:30:42.660 Amazon, Barnes and Noble, uh, christianbook.com. There's audible version, Kindle version. It's

00:30:49.000 there online and we appreciate you guys picking it up, sharing it with your church, a friend. I'll add

00:30:53.680 one more element we didn't see coming. Um, a, a large church just purchased, um, about 300 copies for

00:31:01.060 all of their team leaders in their counseling departments across. They have, they have several

00:31:05.400 different campuses and pastors here and there in their network. And so one of the encouraging

00:31:09.660 things there is this is a great way to learn how to talk to people who are hopeless. And so some

00:31:16.020 counselors have started to use it as a guide for here's how you approach people in pain. And so not

00:31:22.140 just another story or testimony about prosperity gospel or some, you know, rail job on false teachers.

00:31:27.760 I want this book to reach the hearts of people everywhere.

00:31:30.660 Absolutely. Well, thank you so much, Kosti. Thank you for joining us and thank you for writing it.

00:31:35.420 Thankful for you, Allie. Keep up the great work.

00:31:37.180 Thanks. You too.

Relatable with Allie Beth Stuckey - November 23, 2021

Ep 528 ｜ What Progressive Christianity & Prosperity Gospel Get Wrong About Jesus ｜ Guest： Costi Hinn

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