Relatable with Allie Beth Stuckey - Ep 538 ｜ Conversion Therapy & Canada’s Assault on Christianity ｜ Guest： Dr. Joseph Boot

00:00:00.000 Hey guys, welcome to Relatable.

00:00:11.380 Happy Tuesday.

00:00:12.200 Hope everyone is having a wonderful week so far.

00:00:14.680 Today I am super, super excited for you to listen to this conversation that I just recorded

00:00:20.960 with Dr. Joseph Boot.

00:00:23.400 He is a pastor out of Canada.

00:00:25.120 We're talking about Canada's new conversion therapy law, what it means, what the consequences

00:00:31.260 are, what the theological issues are that are at play here, and how Christians, Christian

00:00:37.560 parents, Christian pastors, Christian counselors can respond to this faithfully.

00:00:44.460 And towards the end of our conversation, as he is talking about the gospel and the theological

00:00:49.060 aspects of this, I just felt just so fired up.

00:00:53.220 And I just felt the Holy Spirit in our conversation, truly, because there is so much at stake,

00:00:59.740 but there's just so much goodness in scripture.

00:01:02.580 And I truly love talking about it, especially with someone who knows the word of God so well

00:01:06.860 and is bold to apply it and speak it.

00:01:09.980 So you're going to be blessed by this conversation, challenged by this conversation, particularly

00:01:13.740 if you are on the other side of the aisle.

00:01:17.620 But I encourage you to listen to this with an open heart.

00:01:21.980 And I will just pray that there is fertile soil in the hearts of the people who are listening

00:01:26.740 to and watching this, and that if you don't know and believe the gospel, that you will.

00:01:31.940 All right.

00:01:32.360 Without further ado, here is our new friend, Dr. Joseph Boot.

00:01:40.400 Dr. Boot, thank you so much for joining us.

00:01:43.200 First, can you tell everyone who may not know who you are and what you do?

00:01:46.280 Sure.

00:01:49.000 I'm the founder and president of the Ezra Institute here in Canada, which is a Christian think tank

00:01:57.220 philosophy seminar.

00:01:58.920 We do Christian worldview and cultural apologetics, writing, teaching, training, and publishing.

00:02:06.560 And I'm also the founding pastor of Westminster Chapel in Toronto.

00:02:10.620 Got it.

00:02:12.440 Well, thank you so much for taking the time to talk to us about what I know has been a hotly

00:02:18.700 debated, at least in some circles, issue in Canada.

00:02:22.920 And that is this, what's referred to as a banning of conversion therapy.

00:02:29.900 This law just passed unanimously as I read it.

00:02:33.660 Can you tell us what this law is?

00:02:36.400 What do they say it is, politicians who advocate for it, and then what is it actually, in your

00:02:41.240 estimation?

00:02:43.940 Well, they say it's a ban on a practice called conversion therapy.

00:02:52.000 Actually, they say treatment, service, or practice called conversion therapy.

00:02:56.860 The difficulty is they don't actually define what conversion therapy is.

00:03:02.700 It clearly includes what we would call talk therapy, which is people talking, getting counseling,

00:03:10.840 speaking to their pastor, and so forth about issues of gender identity and orientation.

00:03:16.760 So the bill, its first incarnation was Bill C-6.

00:03:22.800 When Parliament broke up, of course, it died, and then it was reintroduced as Bill C-4.

00:03:29.000 In its first incarnation, 62 members of Parliament voted against it.

00:03:35.100 But in this second round, the big shock, and it was a big shock to many, was that it was

00:03:42.400 the conservative members of the House that actually proposed the fast-tracking of the

00:03:48.720 bill, which then got fast-tracked through the Senate without discussion or debate.

00:03:53.700 And one significant change between Bill C-6 and Bill C-4 is that the original Bill C-6 would

00:04:00.280 have allowed an adult, a consenting adult, to take counseling, go to therapy, go and speak

00:04:08.320 to their pastor for repeated discussions about gender identity, their sexual desires, unwanted

00:04:17.780 sexual desires, or unwanted same-sex attraction.

00:04:21.740 And this bill now outlaws it for consenting adults as well.

00:04:25.900 So the claim is that it's a bill to prevent harmful practices of conversion therapy.

00:04:34.860 And what that brings to people's minds is sort of electric shock therapy and sort of coercive

00:04:39.540 practices, which there's no evidence that anybody practices.

00:04:43.020 Right.

00:04:43.320 So the real target of the bill, and the reason there's been an unwillingness, I believe, to

00:04:48.240 actually define conversion therapy, is actually conversion itself.

00:04:55.020 I would argue that this is not an anti-conversion therapy bill, because therapy is not really

00:05:01.020 defined.

00:05:01.580 Well, it's defined so broadly as to be the practice, treatment, or service, any practice,

00:05:10.980 treatment, or service that changes a person's sexual orientation to heterosexual, change a

00:05:15.960 person's gender identity to cisgender, change a person's gender expression so that it conforms

00:05:20.880 to a sex assigned to a sex assigned at birth, or repress or reduce non-heterosexual attraction

00:05:25.700 or sexual behavior.

00:05:27.160 That would capture preaching, by the way.

00:05:29.160 And repress a person's non-cisgender gender identity, or to repress or reduce a person's 0.89

00:05:35.920 gender expression that does not conform to the sex assigned to them at birth.

00:05:42.160 So it doesn't actually define conversion therapy.

00:05:45.680 It just says that nobody can seek help, counsel, either parents for their children or a consenting

00:05:53.820 adult with unwanted same-sex desire or gender dysphoria, confusion about sexual orientation,

00:06:02.440 unless they are wanting to pursue gender transition.

00:06:07.760 That's okay.

00:06:08.960 That's not conversion therapy.

00:06:10.980 Conversion therapy is not if you get counsel or therapy or guidance or treatment to transition,

00:06:19.680 in inverted commas.

00:06:20.900 It only covers those who would affirm the body that you were born with, the gender, the sex

00:06:27.500 you're born with, and say that normative human sexuality is male and female, normative sexual

00:06:34.360 relationships are man, woman, male and female for the Christian in the context of marriage.

00:06:41.000 So C4, C6.

00:06:43.200 C6 is actually harsher, it sounds like, than C4.

00:06:47.180 Yet C4 had some conservative opposition to it, and C6 was expedited and passed unanimously.

00:06:56.800 That's the other way around.

00:06:57.780 Oh, other way around.

00:06:58.920 Okay.

00:06:59.140 Yes.

00:06:59.700 C4 was the new one passed unanimously.

00:07:01.900 Yeah, that was actually toughened up.

00:07:03.560 Okay, that's also a little bit confusing.

00:07:06.120 So C4 is the latest version, expedited, passed unanimously, without conservative opposition,

00:07:11.620 without any debate.

00:07:13.080 My question is, and maybe you don't know the answer to this, maybe no one does, what transpired

00:07:17.320 between C6 and C4?

00:07:20.500 I mean, typically, in the states, that means that conservatives got something that they want

00:07:25.200 in the bill.

00:07:25.960 It was less harsh than what they were afraid of in the first place.

00:07:29.380 And so that's why they decided to vote for it.

00:07:31.880 But it's actually the opposite.

00:07:33.080 It sounds like progressives or liberals got more of what they want, and now conservatives

00:07:37.520 don't oppose it.

00:07:38.460 So what went on there?

00:07:41.540 Well, your analysis is correct.

00:07:43.240 And the difficulty and what's mystifying conservatives, social conservatives here, and of course,

00:07:51.440 people have even written to their MPs and senators to ask the question, what on earth happened?

00:07:58.560 How did we go from 62 MPs objecting to this first incarnation of the bill, to a few weeks later, there

00:08:08.820 being Bill C4 presented, well, when Parliament came back, and then within just a few weeks,

00:08:15.180 the conservatives themselves, the conservatives themselves fast-tracking this bill passed any

00:08:20.500 kind of scrutiny, any kind of debate, any kind of discussion, any kind of amendment, which

00:08:28.000 you would expect with a bill of this nature.

00:08:30.500 And it's important to understand that the preamble to this bill, just so that viewers are aware,

00:08:38.660 the preamble to this bill, which sets up the bill of why it's supposedly necessary, says

00:08:45.380 this, whereas conversion therapy causes harm to society, because among other things, it

00:08:51.720 is based on and propagates myths and stereotypes about sexual orientation, gender identity, and

00:09:00.520 gender expression, including the myth that heterosexuality, cisgender identity, and gender

00:09:08.720 expression that conforms to the sex assigned to a person at birth are to be preferred to

00:09:15.380 over other sexual orientations, gender identities, and gender expressions.

00:09:21.460 Whereas in light of those harms, it is important to discourage and denounce the provision of conversion

00:09:26.440 therapy in order to protect the human dignity and equality of all Canadians.

00:09:32.180 And yet, in fact, in the break, not only does the bill harden to actually not protect the

00:09:38.220 dignity and equality of all Canadians, anybody who is struggling with one of the

00:09:45.360 these desires, dysphoria, or same-sex attractions that they don't want, no longer has equality,

00:09:51.960 because they cannot actually seek out the help that they want.

00:09:55.240 Nobody can advertise that kind of help.

00:09:57.840 Nobody can provide any kind of service.

00:10:00.980 And you can see the theological nature of this bill.

00:10:03.480 This is an emphatic religious statement by the Canadian government that the traditional Orthodox Christian and

00:10:13.880 basically Western, actually one might even say global, this is the first time this has happened in human history,

00:10:21.500 in terms of human civilization, to begin to criminalize people who hold to a normative understanding of human sexuality and identity

00:10:32.740 that's not based in some neo-Marxist myth about fictive gender and fictive sexuality,

00:10:39.680 which perhaps we can discuss in a moment.

00:10:41.080 Nobody quite knows what happened.

00:10:44.460 One can only say that in Canada, this is the result of immense progressive political pressure,

00:10:50.260 both within the Liberal Party, the NDP, and the Conservative Party,

00:10:55.080 a large, powerful caucus of radical progressives within the Conservative Party itself,

00:11:02.520 who have railroaded this through.

00:11:04.480 And in fact, MPs, Conservative MPs have said to me that to have opposed Bill C-4 would have been personal political suicide.

00:11:20.920 I want to go back to something that you said, that this ostensibly bans conversion therapy,

00:11:29.700 but actually affirms the true conversion of someone's gender.

00:11:35.000 And of course, we don't believe that that's even possible.

00:11:37.540 But insofar as someone can try to present as a different gender, what progressives call transitioning,

00:11:43.540 it is affirming that kind of change, but it won't affirm the affirmation of someone's biological sex.

00:11:51.060 And as you just said, that is theological, philosophical in nature,

00:11:55.480 that says something about what these people believe about human beings and human nature,

00:12:02.000 that it's actually the mind and feelings that trump physical reality,

00:12:07.420 that physical reality like biology must conform to someone's thoughts and feelings,

00:12:12.820 and never the other way around.

00:12:14.780 That's what this really is about.

00:12:16.480 It's a battle, not just of the theological proportions, but teleological proportions,

00:12:23.880 and really battling against reality in general, battling against science, battling against biology.

00:12:31.460 And what it's saying is that someone's even fleeting feelings,

00:12:34.660 because we know from science that a lot of kids who feel gender confusion,

00:12:38.700 they end up growing out of that by puberty, just naturally.

00:12:42.640 And so that's what this is a battle against.

00:12:46.780 It's a battle against reality.

00:12:48.300 It's a battle against all of the data and the science that we know.

00:12:52.000 And it's not an affirmation of human dignity,

00:12:54.660 but it does speak to what these people erroneously think human beings are and human nature is.

00:13:02.340 And we're seeing the devastating effects of that.

00:13:04.580 Yeah, well, the reality is that what this bill is a war on, as you've rightly pointed out,

00:13:14.820 is creation itself and any form of normative structure that would transcend personal innate feelings.

00:13:24.680 Your chromosomes don't matter. 0.99

00:13:26.040 Your birth, your birth certificate doesn't matter. 0.59

00:13:34.840 And history and society don't matter.

00:13:38.500 You will probably recall it was Karl Marx who said that the key to the holy family,

00:13:43.040 by which he meant the Christian God, is the earthly family.

00:13:48.600 And he said to destroy the former, we must get rid of the latter in theory and in practice.

00:13:54.240 And this is fundamentally what this bill is about.

00:14:00.560 It is, as you've said, a war on science.

00:14:02.420 But it's interesting the way in which even the sciences have been co-opted into this

00:14:07.900 because of their willingness to pump teenagers full of and even children, younger children full of hormones 0.72

00:14:17.360 and even pressure them into radical surgeries that mutilate the body.

00:14:25.180 And, of course, this bill denies the stories and the reality of those who are detransitioning, 0.99

00:14:33.040 who have recognized they made a terrible mistake.

00:14:35.820 You point out there that the vast majority of young people grow out of these dysphoric conditions,

00:14:42.540 well over 80 percent, without any sort of intervention.

00:14:47.360 And yet this is a law that requires you can only preach, teach, counsel, affirm,

00:14:55.560 a transition away from creational norms, from basically common sense, from science.

00:15:07.140 You can only go in the opposite direction.

00:15:10.260 And it was neo-Marxist Americans, actually, like Judith Butler,

00:15:15.060 the lesbian Jewish feminist philosopher who wrote a book called Gender Trouble,

00:15:22.360 in which she basically gave us – she was one of several, but she was highly influential – 0.62

00:15:26.720 who gave us this idea of fictive sex, that man-woman, male-female,

00:15:33.440 the normative structure of marriage, that these are merely social constructions

00:15:38.000 that are created by a language regime.

00:15:41.380 And that's why we're seeing, Ali, this war on language and pronouns with respect to all of this,

00:15:47.540 because she said that basically the only reason that we recognize a distinction

00:15:52.560 between male, female, man, woman, the normative understanding of heterosexual relationship

00:15:59.640 between male and female is because it serves the interests of power, 0.98

00:16:03.540 in particular cultural Christian power of white males.

00:16:08.340 And it's a kind of hegemony, and it's through a language regime that we use.

00:16:14.120 And if we alter the language regime, we will alter social reality, biology. 0.63

00:16:22.920 Our societal understanding of human relationships will be radically – we will alter them,

00:16:28.760 the fiction of sex, of male and female, of marriage, of man and woman,

00:16:33.440 by changing the language regime.

00:16:36.280 And what this law does is basically now enforces, through criminal sanctions,

00:16:42.220 a new theological, political language regime that prevents you from even speaking clearly

00:16:50.860 and talking with people about these issues on a repeat basis,

00:16:56.600 and prevents anybody who should wish to conform themselves to the traditional understanding

00:17:03.740 and the Christian norm, they are criminalized.

00:17:06.440 And the incredible danger of this bill, especially for a Christian like myself

00:17:11.560 and those who hold to a traditional understanding of male and female and marriage,

00:17:17.760 is that it essentially is criminalizing the Christian faith.

00:17:21.800 It's criminalizing the call to conversion, because the bill requires that any sort of advertising

00:17:31.960 or promotion or even the attempt to lessen somebody's homosexual desires 0.63

00:17:39.100 or gender dysphoric orientation or desire to cross-dress or whatever it may be,

00:17:45.220 is itself criminal.

00:17:47.100 And if you would permit me 30 seconds to read what the Apostle Paul says about this,

00:17:53.960 just so you know how serious this is for the Christian, in 1 Corinthians 6, he says,

00:18:00.000 don't you know that the unrighteous will not inherit God's kingdom, do not be deceived, 0.78

00:18:04.660 no sexually immoral people, idolaters, adulterers, or males who have sex with males, 0.96

00:18:10.460 no thieves, greedy people, drunkards, verbally abusive people, or swindlers will inherit God's kingdom, 0.99

00:18:16.080 and such, some of you used to be like this, and some of you used to be like this.

00:18:22.240 But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ

00:18:27.040 and by the Spirit of our God.

00:18:29.360 He goes on to say, flee sexual immorality.

00:18:32.560 Every other sin a person commits is outside the body,

00:18:35.280 but the person who is sexually immoral sins against his own body.

00:18:39.120 Don't you know that your body is a temple of the Holy Spirit who is in you,

00:18:42.820 whom you have from God?

00:18:44.040 You are not your own, you were bought at a price, so glorify God with your body.

00:18:49.380 So this is central to the Christian message, to Christian teaching,

00:18:53.660 to the preaching of the gospel, and it's being criminalized.

00:18:57.120 So under this law, would it be illegal for a pastor to exposit that passage from the pulpit,

00:19:07.000 or are we only talking about paid services here that are banned?

00:19:11.440 Well, it's any practice or treatment or service, and of course you can, the problem is,

00:19:21.280 is the ambiguity.

00:19:22.360 You can drive a bus, a freight train through the definition, there is no real definition,

00:19:27.160 and you can drive a freight train through practice, service, or treatment.

00:19:32.840 You are certainly forbidden in this law to in any way profit from the provision or the advertising of,

00:19:42.600 or the promotion of conversion therapy.

00:19:44.760 It's actually unclear whether, let's say, a pastor was doing a sermon series on biblical sexuality

00:19:51.220 for the congregation, and was involved in praying for people after the service about those issues.

00:19:59.180 There's nothing in this law which would say that a pastor is protected in such an instance.

00:20:07.340 And certainly if somebody after a series of sermons like that were to say,

00:20:10.720 can I come and see you about my struggles with my sexuality and my sexual identity,

00:20:16.480 and the pastor agreed to that and counseled in terms of the biblical understanding,

00:20:20.620 that would be the provision of conversion therapy and would carry up to five years in prison.

00:20:26.380 Wow.

00:20:26.500 So the problem is, is the ambiguity here.

00:20:32.040 Would just a sermon be covered?

00:20:34.740 The truth of the issue is we don't know.

00:20:37.660 Could that be counted as talk therapy?

00:20:40.500 There's nothing which specifically says that conversion therapy is only a paid service.

00:20:45.820 This is any treatment service or therapy.

00:20:52.040 So that's an unknown.

00:20:55.440 And I think the big concern is that it's going to be the perception of the person who's exposed to the counseling

00:21:07.220 or the preaching or the teaching in any of these given environments

00:21:10.680 that's probably going to determine whether they were undergoing conversion therapy or not. 1.00

00:21:15.340 So I don't know too much about the Canadian system.

00:21:17.900 I know in the United States this would very likely be considered a violation of the First Amendment.

00:21:23.000 It would probably make its way to the Supreme Court,

00:21:24.900 and there's just no way that a law like this, at least right now with the court that we have, would last.

00:21:32.400 What about in Canada?

00:21:33.520 Is there any hope that the courts will say,

00:21:36.380 no, this violates our constitution?

00:21:39.400 I thought that Canada had a guaranteed right to free speech, but maybe I'm wrong on that.

00:21:46.060 Well, yes.

00:21:47.000 I mean, that's an interesting question itself.

00:21:49.200 Right now with Section 1 in Canada, with everything that's been going on the last 18 months,

00:21:53.580 our charter seems to be in indefinite suspension when the government deems it justified.

00:22:00.500 But there are guarantees of fundamental freedoms in Section 2 of the Canadian Charter.

00:22:06.860 And of course, those include things like freedom of religion, freedom of expression, and so on.

00:22:11.040 There is also a provision for bodily integrity and of the person, freedom of the person and bodily integrity.

00:22:22.080 And certainly it could be argued that this criminalization of getting help,

00:22:28.960 don't forget this prevents people, anybody struggling with these issues,

00:22:33.960 from seeking out the kind of counsel, therapy, help that any other Canadian would be allowed and permitted.

00:22:42.440 So there's definite discrimination.

00:22:45.880 It's fundamentally discriminatory.

00:22:47.980 It is a denial now of religious freedom.

00:22:51.700 And with it really is a freedom of speech violation as well and expression,

00:22:57.940 because the Christian parents and Christian pastors who want to counsel and help those struggling in this area,

00:23:06.320 their speech, that kind of speech, and also publication.

00:23:09.480 So anything that might be online, anything written, any recordings, anything at all that might promote

00:23:16.340 or advertise or actually be considered conducting this conversion therapy falls under this law.

00:23:29.400 So I expect there will be some form of constitutional challenge, Ali. 0.53

00:23:33.980 But I am based on recent decisions by the Canadian Supreme Court with regard to religious freedom,

00:23:42.320 for example, the Trinity Western University case with their lifestyle document for their university,

00:23:46.480 which concerned sexual issues, the lifestyle document in terms of Christian sexual behavior.

00:23:54.460 That case was lost in the Supreme Court.

00:23:59.560 And so I am not holding my breath, let's say.

00:24:02.800 I'm not especially optimistic that a constitutional challenge in this regard,

00:24:07.100 with a law that got unanimously passed without any single person standing up to object in both the lower and the upper house,

00:24:15.540 I very much doubt our very progressive Supreme Court will uphold a constitutional challenge to this totalitarian law.

00:24:23.640 I mean, in many respects, what you saw with the with the House and the Senate is is reminiscent of an almost fascistic practice.

00:24:33.200 It's almost like we have a one party, a one party state.

00:24:37.620 And when it wants to railroad a piece of criminal legislation through that will discriminate against certain people,

00:24:44.320 everybody's on board.

00:24:45.700 And that's a pretty terrifying place to be.

00:24:55.260 Do you know you mentioned detransitioners? 0.99

00:24:57.660 Do you know if this law would prevent someone from counseling a person through detransition who wants to, again, present as their sex?

00:25:12.080 Is that allowed?

00:25:13.460 Are you allowed to, I guess, probably not encourage, but simply help someone who, you know, so-called transitioned into a man,

00:25:25.340 but now realizes, OK, I want to present is my biological sex.

00:25:29.800 It does this law allow for the help through that process?

00:25:35.000 No, as this bill is written, no, you would not be able to counsel somebody through through a detransition process.

00:25:45.460 Well, that would be forbidden.

00:25:48.380 And as I certainly read this law, I'm not a lawyer, but the lawyers that I have spoken to in and I've got the bill in front of me and I've read it many times would not permit you to counsel somebody to conform their body,

00:26:03.860 their own biology to to to the sex of their their birth and to to reduce or or transit or detransition.

00:26:14.260 No, that would be against the law.

00:26:15.960 Wow. So as you said earlier, this is only allowing the affirmation of transitioning away from someone's sex, away from heterosexuality, never the other direction,

00:26:29.340 even if this is a consenting adult or a teenager who says, wow, I made a mistake or I don't want to live this way anymore.

00:26:35.300 I want to conform to heterosexuality or my biology.

00:26:41.140 You're not even allowed to encourage someone who is voluntarily doing that, which, like you said, this is not then an anti-conversion therapy bill.

00:26:51.880 This is truly anti-conversion.

00:26:55.160 I mean, this is simply an affirmation of anti-reality and makes an effort, actually, to deny people even access to help to conform to reality.

00:27:09.400 And that brings me to a conversation that I want to have about parents and what this could mean for Christian parents.

00:27:18.720 And I read a really interesting, sad, also in some ways encouraging article last night in The Daily Signal.

00:27:26.140 And I want to read some of that.

00:27:28.340 This is in the United States, but it obviously has implications for what parents will be going through in Canada.

00:27:34.820 And this is kind of what will sound like to some people, certainly on the left, a scandalous sounding or maybe a mean, harsh sounding headline.

00:27:44.600 But it's a very interesting article.

00:27:46.500 What I've learned rescuing my daughter from her transgender fantasy in The Daily Signal. 0.99

00:27:52.660 This is written by a mom and I'll just kind of summarize it, maybe read some quotes from it.

00:27:57.220 But basically, this young daughter, she says, was, you know, she acted like a girl, liked traditionally girly feminine things from the time that she was little.

00:28:09.320 She always liked wearing dresses.

00:28:10.900 She refused to even play with her brother's toys.

00:28:14.440 And then as she became a teenager, as she got into middle school, she started getting involved with different communities online.

00:28:23.060 And that encouraged or that included things like anime, like the so-called furry cosplay community that this mother didn't know actually has aspects to it that are predatory, that are pedophilic,

00:28:38.480 that can include encouragement to transition and encouragement towards sexual and gender fluidity.

00:28:48.560 And she became a part of this community.

00:28:52.300 And this young girl decided that she was transgender, that she was really born a boy.

00:28:57.100 She started wearing more masculine clothes.

00:29:00.340 And on top of that, she became very isolated.

00:29:03.140 She became a recluse.

00:29:04.220 She became very mean and hostile to her family.

00:29:08.480 Her mom decided, OK, this is too much.

00:29:11.080 She logged into all of her daughter's social media accounts.

00:29:14.260 And she found not just this confusing propaganda about gender and sexuality, but actually found that she was talking to predatory people,

00:29:24.240 that she was looking at pornography as a young girl, and that she was involved in a community that was really encouraging this kind of predation,

00:29:33.560 encouraging this kind of self-harm.

00:29:35.600 And her daughter changed, for the worse, into almost a totally different person, a different person than the daughter that she had raised.

00:29:43.620 And so there's a lot more to this.

00:29:45.640 But she eventually, the mom said, you know what, this is enough.

00:29:49.740 This is enough.

00:29:50.500 I'm not dealing with this anymore.

00:29:52.060 Or this is, we're not going this direction.

00:29:54.000 And so she took away her daughter's, all of her devices, her social media accounts.

00:29:59.700 She forbade her from hanging out with a lot of the people that were influencing her in this direction.

00:30:06.080 And she basically detoxed her daughter from all of these different avenues that were encouraging her daughter to transition and take part in this awful, gross behavior, 1.00

00:30:16.240 and ensured that she didn't have any access to the pornography that she was being sent, all of this awful stuff.

00:30:22.920 And basically, long story short, her daughter changed for the better.

00:30:26.960 Her daughter turned into the young girl that her mother had raised, and she's much happier.

00:30:33.760 She's much healthier now.

00:30:35.360 She doesn't hang out with the same people.

00:30:36.780 She's doing much better in school.

00:30:38.220 She doesn't have that same attitude of hostility and just self-loathing that her mother had seen when her daughter had gone down these rabbit holes online.

00:30:47.200 But this mother had the freedom to do this here still. 0.99

00:30:51.540 She had the freedom to take this strong approach in her daughter's life, and her daughter is better off for it.

00:30:59.260 My question is, and somewhere like Canada, under this law, is this even allowed?

00:31:04.920 This mom just being a good mom and stepping up for the well-being of her daughter, is that even allowed under this law? 1.00

00:31:11.740 Or could a parent potentially see jail time for doing what this mother did for the sake of her daughter in Canada? 0.64

00:31:20.020 Well, Ali, the truth is, we've already seen in British Columbia a case where a husband and father who would not affirm the revised identity of his daughter,

00:31:35.240 who was a minor at the time, forbidden from speaking about the issue publicly by the courts,

00:31:44.840 and parents losing control in this situation.

00:31:50.180 In fact, in Ontario, you can already have your children seized by the state if you do not affirm their path that they want to go on in this area of human identity and sexuality.

00:32:10.000 This law only reinforces that.

00:32:12.140 So what needs to be understood by people outside of Canada is that there are sleeper laws around that exist already in various provinces

00:32:20.380 that were already going down this path of forbidding conversion therapy.

00:32:26.540 And here in Ontario, the legal necessity to affirm the desires of minors,

00:32:34.980 and a failure to do that as a parent can get you into trouble with the law,

00:32:41.000 well, this bill will only further that direction.

00:32:45.220 And alongside of that, we have a radicalized education, government education system here in Canada.

00:32:54.660 It's governed provincially, education, so I'm in Ontario, but it's the same right across the country.

00:33:02.140 You have a radical LGBTQ plus progressive agenda in schools.

00:33:10.100 So queer theory basically now dominates the classroom, 0.94

00:33:15.260 whether it's with books, whether it's with curriculum materials,

00:33:20.980 right through the curriculum.

00:33:22.360 In fact, right into kindergarten, this radical agenda is being promoted.

00:33:31.080 And so the story that you've talked about of what's happening actually in our schools is that

00:33:36.000 this conversion is already happening in the other way.

00:33:39.660 So it's going on socially and culturally.

00:33:42.580 It's going on through the curriculum.

00:33:44.200 It's going on through education and parents are, there's a legislative environment,

00:33:49.360 which is increasingly forbidding parents from insisting on my house, my rules, my family, my domain.

00:34:00.800 And this bill, Bill C-4, would basically criminalize any parent who takes their child

00:34:08.480 under 18 years of age.

00:34:11.100 But don't forget, adults can't have this service either.

00:34:13.420 But any child that's taken by a parent, even outside of the country,

00:34:16.700 if somebody were to travel to the United States on vacation with their family,

00:34:21.600 with a child struggling in this area who has got unwanted desires or attraction,

00:34:26.400 and you were to take them to an American pastor or counselor, that's a crime,

00:34:30.460 even outside of Canada.

00:34:32.640 And to do so in Canada for a parent would be a crime.

00:34:37.460 So this is firming up.

00:34:39.000 This is hardening a legislative environment that already exists and an educational environment

00:34:43.840 that already drills queer theory into the minds of children from kindergarten upwards.

00:34:53.160 Wow.

00:34:53.520 So it doesn't even allow parents to be parents.

00:34:56.440 The reality is, is that certainly transition in particular, so-called transition,

00:35:02.040 when a child is given hormone blockers when they're going through puberty.

00:35:07.760 There are stories, of course, here in the United States of young girls being able to get double 0.98

00:35:12.820 mastectomies and hormone blockers when they are teenagers without parental consent in some states

00:35:20.060 in the United States.

00:35:21.460 And that causes not only physical harm, but it just exacerbates the psychological distress

00:35:26.400 that a lot of young people have, the numbers of post-transition suicide are astronomical.

00:35:32.400 This idea that so-called transition to conform to how someone feels is the solution to people's distress.

00:35:41.400 It just doesn't hold up with the numbers.

00:35:44.180 And really what you see, you see this manipulation tactic of saying, well, we have to ban conversion

00:35:50.180 therapy or we have to simply affirm someone's feelings about their so-called gender identity

00:35:55.300 because if you don't, they'll commit suicide.

00:35:57.740 Actually, this mom in the article that I read, she said that her daughter would start using this

00:36:02.860 manipulation tactic to her, that if you don't let me do what I want, if you don't let me transition,

00:36:06.780 if you don't let me talk to this furry community, whatever that is online and talk to these older 0.97

00:36:12.900 people online, then I'll just, I'll just kill myself.

00:36:16.480 And this mom recognized this as a tactic and said that she just responded in love and compassion,

00:36:22.000 but was unrelenting in her commitment to reality.

00:36:28.640 And thankfully here in most places, you can still do that.

00:36:33.200 It sounds like in Canada, that's not possible.

00:36:35.420 But the state is not going to be there when your daughter who decided to get a double mastectomy

00:36:41.420 at 15 years old is still contemplating suicide.

00:36:44.460 Like the state is not going to be there holding your child's hand when they realize they've

00:36:49.520 made that mistake or your, the state is not going to be there to care for your child as

00:36:54.200 they are continuing through the distress of life, trying to reconcile reality with what's

00:36:59.020 going on in their mind.

00:37:00.080 The state wasn't there when your child was born, when they laid that baby on your chest,

00:37:04.000 the state wasn't there when you were waking up in the middle of the night to comfort your

00:37:07.540 child because they're crying and they need their mom or dad.

00:37:11.000 The state doesn't care about your child.

00:37:12.940 The state doesn't care about your child's well-being.

00:37:15.980 Does it care about your child's, um, your, your child's health?

00:37:20.900 You as the parent do.

00:37:22.460 And this to me seems not only, um, it doesn't seem like only an LGBTQ agenda in the sense

00:37:30.700 that it is trying to, you know, encourage or, uh, you know, encourage or preserve LGBTQ

00:37:40.620 identity or anything.

00:37:41.720 It seems also specifically anti-parent and anti-family.

00:37:46.800 And it just seems like it goes back to kind of what you were saying about the neo-Marxist,

00:37:51.840 uh, you know, attack on what they see as any kind of hegemony or any kind of hierarchy.

00:37:58.560 And that includes the family, this attempt to try to liberate all people from any kind of

00:38:05.340 authority.

00:38:05.920 It seems like this also has to do with an attempt to what they would say is liberate children

00:38:12.020 from the authority and the oppression of their family.

00:38:15.480 So they can just express themselves however they want to.

00:38:18.780 Um, the problem is we know practically where that leads.

00:38:21.760 It leads to personal destruction.

00:38:23.440 It leads to societal destruction.

00:38:25.960 And that just, I just don't even know.

00:38:28.080 I can't even, I don't even think we can quantify or really fathom what's going to be the long-term

00:38:33.300 consequence of this.

00:38:34.500 I think my mind won't even let me go there, but to you, like, how do you encourage people

00:38:40.220 in Canada, Christians who are bound by the authority of the word of God to push back on 0.99

00:38:45.980 this?

00:38:46.220 I mean, what, what can they do?

00:38:48.140 This is such a travesty.

00:38:49.320 I can't even really wrap my mind around it, honestly.

00:38:54.580 Well, it is, it's a, it's a, it's a wicked ideology.

00:38:57.900 And I think that is the, the, the thing absolutely to keep in mind front and center that this is

00:39:04.660 a religious assault.

00:39:06.180 It's an ideological assault on the family, upon the church, upon, specifically upon the

00:39:13.420 Christian faith, um, and upon the society and the social order that, um, has created 0.99

00:39:20.460 the, the, the Western world.

00:39:23.020 Um, there is no social revolution without sexual revolution.

00:39:27.920 And so the, the ultimate agenda here is, uh, to, uh, totally revolutionize society.

00:39:36.440 The claim is utterly radical.

00:39:38.480 And of course, uh, there were those who in the sixties and seventies warned us about this.

00:39:42.360 Many people did not see it.

00:39:44.500 Uh, but the claim is radical that there is no normative human identity at all.

00:39:49.100 And the goal here is a kind of, um, sexual utopia, um, a sort of imaginary, of course, utopia

00:39:56.580 means no place, uh, but it's an imaginary world, uh, in which, um, uh, human autonomy, human

00:40:04.580 dignity is defined as the most radical kind of autonomy, uh, where there is no such thing

00:40:10.480 as a normative family already in the legal structure in Ontario here.

00:40:14.140 Um, there is, uh, uh, legislation that allows for totally unrelated individuals to enter into

00:40:22.240 a contract before a baby is even born to be, uh, the parents of that child.

00:40:29.840 Uh, and so these, these laws and bill C4, which, uh, reinforces it all, uh, have a revolutionary,

00:40:37.080 uh, motivation, um, to, to remake society.

00:40:40.940 And I, I liked the way you put it about, um, you know, liberating people or freeing people

00:40:46.540 from, uh, their, their creational condition, um, from the, from the norms of creation itself. 0.91

00:40:54.900 I mean, if you free a lemur of his tail or a camel of his humps or a man of his testicles, 0.71

00:41:00.380 you destroy the very thing you are claiming to liberate. 0.61

00:41:04.100 And so this, this liberation, uh, is no liberation at all.

00:41:09.620 It's a, it's a new form of slavery and like all utopias, it's totalitarian and it will, uh,

00:41:16.580 brook no dissent.

00:41:18.540 And so my encouragement to Christians and my encouragement already to pastors across the

00:41:24.640 country is that, uh, we need to have a biblical sexuality Sunday where churches across the

00:41:30.520 country agree to preach and speak on the biblical understanding of sexuality.

00:41:36.660 The Sunday after, uh, this bill on the anniversary of the, the Sunday following the passage of this

00:41:42.260 bill, um, we need to defend the, the family totalitarianism.

00:41:47.100 Of course, we, in our minds, we see, you know, jackboots and powerful authoritarian dictators

00:41:52.660 and so forth, but that's not the meaning of totalitarianism.

00:41:55.360 Um, totalitarianism is the attempt of the state.

00:41:58.940 And you talked about the state there a lot because you're absolutely right.

00:42:01.600 Where were they when your children were being born?

00:42:04.700 Where were they when you were doing the night feeds?

00:42:07.260 Uh, where were they when you were instructing and raising your children in the home?

00:42:11.240 Um, but the, the, the, the, the, the, the state here totalitarianism means the effort to treat

00:42:19.280 the family, the church and other societal institutions in a parts to whole fashion.

00:42:24.620 And we're seeing now the state, uh, treating family and church and other institutions as merely

00:42:30.500 lesser parts of the state.

00:42:32.260 They get to dictate in totalitarian terms, uh, the kind of teaching, the kind of help, the

00:42:38.760 kind of counsel that, uh, even the family or the church can give and offer to its own children,

00:42:45.520 even to its own adult members.

00:42:47.940 Uh, and so this is make no mistake, a totalitarian bill.

00:42:51.640 And the only way to resist, uh, to stand against totalitarianism is to resist it, to continue

00:42:57.140 to speak, uh, to continue to act faithfully in the Christian family, uh, to continue to push 0.94

00:43:03.900 back.

00:43:04.180 It's been very interesting, Ali, that, uh, while Canada is doing this, other nations

00:43:08.740 around the world have been having robust debate about, uh, transgenderism and the fact that

00:43:15.540 there is absolutely zero science behind this, um, and are pushing back against, um, laws that

00:43:22.980 would allow minors to transition, even in the United Kingdom, that's been happening.

00:43:26.540 And so the fact that Canada is plowing this course, you can see that what's going on here

00:43:32.000 is we've got a social experiment happening and the first requirement of any experiment

00:43:37.580 is a controlled environment.

00:43:39.740 You can't do a legitimate experiment unless you have a controlled environment.

00:43:43.020 So it requires these totalizing controls.

00:43:46.020 And so this is a totalitarian bill.

00:43:48.460 It's a religious bill and it, and it, uh, uh, it, uh, militates at the most fundamental

00:43:55.920 and foundational level against the Christian foundations of the country.

00:43:59.260 When you think that the Bible begins with a marriage, uh, the, the relationship of God

00:44:07.000 to his people, Israel is described as a marriage and Israel is an adulterous people. 0.67

00:44:13.020 You move on to the New Testament and you have the Holy family, uh, and then the father and

00:44:20.140 the son, the very description of, uh, the Godhead is in familial terms, uh, fatherhood, sonship.

00:44:28.660 Jesus's first miracle is performed at a wedding.

00:44:32.500 The relationship of Christ to his church is described as a marriage and history ends, according

00:44:39.460 to scripture in the marriage supper of the lamb.

00:44:42.220 So marriage and normative human sexuality and identity, he made the male and female is 0.83

00:44:48.800 a cosmological key to the universe.

00:44:51.780 It's a cosmological key to meaning.

00:44:53.900 It's the beginning of distinguishing and God drawing distinctions within, uh, creation

00:45:00.680 and within human relationships.

00:45:02.660 And what we're seeing now in Canada and beyond is an attempt to join what God has separated

00:45:08.240 and separate what God has joined.

00:45:11.020 And that is the ideological character, um, of this bill and other pieces of legislation

00:45:17.100 in Canada.

00:45:18.700 And this is a totalitarian attempt now to, uh, freeze all freedom of speech, um, to put fear

00:45:26.520 and terror into people for being parents, for being pastors, for being counselors, and to

00:45:32.080 advance a social revolution, uh, via a radical sexual revolution in the service of some radical,

00:45:39.180 neo-Marxist, um, thinkers who want to deny created reality because ultimately of a hatred of God.

00:45:46.560 I believe that's what's behind all of this.

00:45:48.080 One thing that you, that you mentioned, just the significance of marriage, male, female

00:46:01.640 marriage, the only legitimate marriage that God says exists, God who created marriage defines

00:46:06.820 it as male and female.

00:46:08.500 Something that we talk a lot about on this podcast is that we don't just read the Bible

00:46:13.200 to look at what God tells us not to do.

00:46:16.340 You hear that a lot from the progressive side of the aisle that says, well, you know, Jesus

00:46:20.280 never mentioned abortion or Jesus never mentioned transgenderism.

00:46:24.000 Jesus never, uh, mentioned marriage or homosexuality, which is not exactly true.

00:46:30.100 Obviously, if you look at Matthew 19, he does define marriage and gender very clearly, but

00:46:34.900 we say, you don't just read the Bible to look for all of the things that God tells us not

00:46:40.280 to do.

00:46:40.640 You also look at the Bible to say, to look at what God says to do and what God is.

00:46:46.040 And so we're, what God says is, and is good and right and true.

00:46:51.040 And I came up with, I love alliterations because it helps me remember things.

00:46:55.900 And what you were talking about, the, about scripture, starting with the marriage and ending with

00:47:00.680 a marriage, our relationship in marriage being a reflection of Christ and the church in Ephesians

00:47:06.900 five, I like to say that the definition of marriage is rooted in creation.

00:47:11.580 It's reiterated throughout scripture.

00:47:13.440 It's repeated by Jesus himself in Matthew 19, and it is therefore reflective of the gospel

00:47:21.200 itself as we read in Ephesians five.

00:47:24.320 And so it's not just about what the Bible specifically says about homosexuality.

00:47:29.580 Although we do read that homosexuality is forbidden, it's also about what God says marriage is and

00:47:39.280 what that looks like and what it reflects and what it represents.

00:47:43.740 And if you miss that kind of, as you said in the beginning, when you were reading first

00:47:46.920 Corinthians six, like you actually do miss the gospel.

00:47:51.240 You miss the gospel because if earthly marriage is a reflection of Christ and the church, and 0.85

00:47:56.740 if we get the earthly part wrong, we're also going to get the spiritual part wrong as well.

00:48:01.460 So this is a big deal.

00:48:02.640 When people tell me, you know, especially millennials or generation Z younger than me, they say, you

00:48:07.920 know, what's the big deal with this?

00:48:09.260 Why can't we just love people?

00:48:11.000 Why can't we just be empathetic?

00:48:12.840 What's wrong?

00:48:13.460 I even get professing Christians saying, what's wrong with stating my pronouns or saying that

00:48:18.340 someone who feels like they're a woman while they're a man, that they can transition.

00:48:22.120 What's wrong with that?

00:48:22.820 That's just loving.

00:48:23.740 Jesus told us to love.

00:48:25.440 They don't realize that this is essentially a gospel issue.

00:48:28.940 Yes, it's a scriptural authority issue, but it's a gospel issue.

00:48:32.000 You don't understand the gospel if you can't define marriage.

00:48:35.440 And that is what is on the line.

00:48:37.420 Even though we know that God is sovereign and that the gates of hell will not prevail

00:48:41.100 against God's church.

00:48:42.080 So no law that Canada passes or America passes is going to stop that.

00:48:46.100 We still realize that the stakes are really high here and that there is a lot on the line.

00:48:51.280 There's a lot of spiritual things that are on the line with a law like this.

00:48:56.100 Absolutely.

00:48:56.900 I mean, you make an incredibly important point that anybody who says, well, this is not a

00:49:02.140 gospel issue, doesn't understand the gospel, doesn't understand the significance of the

00:49:08.040 teaching of scripture or the meaning of the relationship of Christ and his church.

00:49:11.340 This is at the heart of the meaning of the gospel.

00:49:13.340 Well, as I said, even the revelation of the character and nature of God himself is given

00:49:19.940 to us in familial terms.

00:49:23.180 And you rightly mentioned that Jesus does, in fact, deal with these issues.

00:49:27.180 And of course, in Matthew 5, Jesus makes crystal clear that he upholds the entirety of the law.

00:49:33.760 And these issues are dealt with in the Torah, in the instruction that God gives throughout

00:49:42.240 the Older Testament as well, which is reiterated by Jesus and the apostle Paul.

00:49:47.040 So Jesus upholds every punctuation mark of his law.

00:49:50.840 So he does deal with it.

00:49:52.500 And these are, I mean, what you've pointed out essentially is that these are pre-political

00:49:58.700 realities.

00:49:59.280 The state does not exist to redefine marriage, redefine human identity, redefine human sexuality,

00:50:08.660 and so on.

00:50:09.320 The state exists to recognize and protect those things which are created realities and which

00:50:15.900 are ordained by God.

00:50:18.180 And it doesn't, it is not there.

00:50:20.940 It's so far beyond.

00:50:22.260 And this is the state overreach in all of this is so tyrannical.

00:50:26.300 It beggars belief, really.

00:50:29.200 It's hard to describe the extent to which this violates everything that the state is

00:50:33.380 meant to be as a ministry of justice.

00:50:36.400 And it is, instead of protecting our pre-political rights, marriage, family, and so on and so forth,

00:50:42.980 it's destroying them.

00:50:44.960 The state doesn't get to redefine reality in these terms.

00:50:49.260 And that's why, you know, we, it's so critical that at this juncture, we affirm that this

00:50:56.120 is central to the gospel.

00:50:57.800 God the Father, and God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit.

00:51:03.080 And we have the centrality of the church as Christ's bride.

00:51:09.180 And the most fundamental distinction in the Bible is the male and female distinction.

00:51:14.660 And Ali, once that distinction has gone, then there are no possible creational distinctions

00:51:21.580 left, you know, forget good and evil, right and wrong.

00:51:25.280 These things disappear with the most fundamental distinction the Bible makes at the beginning

00:51:31.700 of creation, male and female, which reflects the distinction that exists in the being of

00:51:37.620 God himself.

00:51:38.420 So this is absolutely a gospel issue, as you pointed out.

00:51:41.200 It's central to the call of the gospel, which is that we leave sin and rebellion against

00:51:46.800 God behind, and we conform ourselves to God's order, to his creation norms, to his law word.

00:51:53.820 And that's what it means to be a Christian.

00:51:55.760 Jesus says, if you love me, you'll obey my commandments.

00:51:58.660 And Paul says, such were some of you.

00:52:01.060 You did live like this, but you've been washed, you've been justified, you've been

00:52:05.000 sanctified, you've been changed, you've been converted, and you now live a new life.

00:52:11.240 And that life, as you pointed out, is for the blessing, for the good, for the prosperity,

00:52:17.740 for the flourishing of the individual, the family, and human society.

00:52:22.840 God instituted these things for our good and for our blessing.

00:52:27.000 And that's why only destruction, as you pointed out, is going to follow in the wake of these

00:52:30.680 things, because in the end, you cannot violate God's laws and norms, and there not be consequences.

00:52:37.060 You don't jump out of an aircraft thinking you can violate the law of gravity without

00:52:41.780 a parachute, and you are going to come unstuck.

00:52:45.960 There is always a consequence for the violation of God's laws and norms, and there will be terrible

00:52:51.720 social consequences from this.

00:52:53.800 And it will be families, parents, churches that are left picking up the pieces when this

00:52:59.020 all falls apart, which it most certainly will.

00:53:01.300 It will certainly be disproportionately a consequence that children have to bear, as is true with

00:53:10.160 all anti-creational order issues.

00:53:15.300 The redefinition of the family, wombs and children becoming commodities for the redefinition of 1.00

00:53:22.440 the family to try to mimic the natural family.

00:53:26.820 Children are always the unconsenting subjects of progressive experiments.

00:53:33.300 They have been literally laid on the altar in the form of child sacrifice throughout history.

00:53:38.640 Now they are figuratively laid on the altar and are being used as sacrifices in different

00:53:46.820 ways.

00:53:47.360 But the end result, as you said, in both ways is death and is destruction.

00:53:55.100 And for Christians listening to this, you amazingly, there are, you know, professing Christians who

00:53:59.800 seem to be on the fence.

00:54:01.200 I like to say this is a Genesis 1 issue.

00:54:03.440 You, as you mentioned, being made male and female is what it means to be made in God's image.

00:54:08.380 That is in the first chapter of the Bible.

00:54:10.880 And I just don't believe someone when they say that they don't affirm Genesis 1, but that

00:54:15.920 they will continue to affirm John 14, 6, that Jesus is the way, the truth, and the life.

00:54:22.320 That is a far more scandalous statement in today's age, that Jesus is the only way to God than

00:54:29.900 Genesis 1, we are made male and female.

00:54:33.100 I just don't believe you when you say that you don't affirm Genesis 1, but you do affirm

00:54:37.800 John 14, 6.

00:54:39.320 It doesn't happen like that.

00:54:40.560 Maybe it's a slow fade.

00:54:41.960 I do see this happen with people who profess to be Christians. 0.99

00:54:45.240 They start to wiggle on the, you know, gender sexuality stuff in the name of so-called nuance 0.56

00:54:49.500 and empathy.

00:54:51.500 But it always slides.

00:54:52.940 It always slides in the direction of apostasy.

00:54:55.920 Of course, repentance is absolutely possible by the grace of God.

00:54:59.140 But this is such a central issue.

00:55:01.800 And I think there was Katie, Katie Faust was a guest that I had on and she has an amazing

00:55:05.440 organization.

00:55:05.920 But she pointed out to me something that I hadn't thought about when it comes to the definition

00:55:10.120 of the family and the definition of right sexuality in God is that when you redefine the

00:55:17.260 family and sexuality, you are forbidding the children who are the products of that from 0.99

00:55:22.000 obeying the first commandment with a promise, honor your father and mother.

00:55:25.800 We create fatherlessness, which is a category of helplessness and vulnerability in the Bible.

00:55:32.080 We are told to help the fatherless, not create fatherlessness.

00:55:35.240 And there wasn't even really a category for motherlessness, which we see in the redefinition

00:55:39.580 of the family now, because that is so such an aberration historically.

00:55:43.660 And so, as you said, just to reiterate, like there's, there's so, there's so much, there's

00:55:49.180 so many biblical issues, theological issues at stake here.

00:55:51.960 So many practical ones as well, since parents are basically going to be forbidden from shepherding

00:55:58.340 their kids and pastors forbidden from shepherding their, their own flocks in the right way.

00:56:04.460 Is there any, yeah, go ahead.

00:56:06.140 Yeah, you mentioned John 14.

00:56:07.460 And I was thinking when you said that of also of John chapter one, because of course, the

00:56:12.520 gospel of John opens with a deliberate echo of Genesis chapter one.

00:56:18.520 In the beginning was the word, the word was with God, the word was God.

00:56:22.040 He was with God in the beginning.

00:56:23.520 All things were made through him.

00:56:26.220 Without him, nothing was made that was made in him was life.

00:56:29.220 And that life was the light of men.

00:56:30.940 So the word, the Christ is also the creator.

00:56:35.300 So any attempt to sever the Bible, uh, you know, Genesis and John, uh, divided up into pieces

00:56:42.320 and say, well, I can, I can't affirm Genesis one, but I can affirm the rest is of course.

00:56:46.360 Um, well, it's nonsense, Ellie, it's a complete myth.

00:56:49.600 You can't do it.

00:56:50.420 There is a complete continuity as a historical continuity.

00:56:54.520 Uh, there's a historical continuum between creation and redemption in scripture.

00:56:59.700 And so the attempt to, to compromise and to synthesize, uh, these things, um, is, uh,

00:57:07.040 well, it's, it's fundamentally impossible.

00:57:09.000 It's totally inadequate.

00:57:10.460 It doesn't make any sense.

00:57:11.700 And as you point out, the ones that ultimately suffer in all of this are, uh, children and,

00:57:19.780 uh, they have to bear the compromise, the, the consequences, uh, of, uh, of our dereliction

00:57:25.380 and an apostasy as a culture.

00:57:28.500 And so we have, uh, uh, uh, a very important responsibility now at this juncture to make sure

00:57:35.700 we, um, fight for the truth of the gospel, uh, uh, and all that flows from it, including

00:57:41.540 the freedom of the family.

00:57:43.740 Yes.

00:57:44.260 And amen.

00:57:44.980 Now you mentioned that, uh, the Sunday after this law goes into effect, you were calling

00:57:51.360 for, um, pastors in Canada to preach about biblical marriage and sexuality, correct?

00:57:58.440 That's right.

00:57:59.120 And is there, is this an official, um, invitation that you've extended?

00:58:04.820 Like, is this something that American pastors can take part of?

00:58:07.780 Because I think it would be wonderful if there were American pastors who decided to do the

00:58:12.480 same thing on the same Sunday that their Canadian counterparts did it as well.

00:58:18.200 That's a good, that's a good thought.

00:58:20.020 Um, so, uh, I'm not sure, um, exactly when this will broadcast, but we, I'm working with

00:58:25.120 a group of, um, pastors and leaders right now, uh, in Canada, and we'll be, we'll be

00:58:30.780 announcing, uh, the details of this, uh, shortly, um, and, uh, at which point, um, certainly we

00:58:38.000 can be in touch.

00:58:38.740 And, and actually I think I will, I will suggest that excellent idea that we invite our American

00:58:44.800 brothers and sisters in the churches there to perhaps, um, do the same and, uh, uh, take

00:58:51.740 that, take that Sunday and make it a biblical sexuality Sunday so that the church can make

00:58:57.360 a firm and positive stand, uh, on this.

00:59:00.160 Cause the more we can work together, cause the challenges are the same, right over the

00:59:03.440 West, uh, the, the more of an impact we're going to have.

00:59:07.140 Yes.

00:59:07.620 And amen.

00:59:08.280 Thank you so much for taking the time to talk to us today.

00:59:11.300 Uh, where can people find you if they want to read your books, your writings and things

00:59:15.500 like that?

00:59:16.700 Yeah, thank you, Ali.

00:59:17.380 So they can find, uh, they can find me at, uh, ezrainstitute.ca, uh, that's the website.

00:59:23.160 And, uh, there you can link to Ezra Press, uh, for all of our books and resources.

00:59:28.280 Um, we have a podcast, uh, which you can, the podcast for cultural reformation, which you

00:59:32.940 can find, uh, wherever you get your podcasts from.

00:59:36.120 Um, and of course you can follow us on Facebook and Twitter, and you can follow me on Twitter

00:59:40.240 at Dr. Joe Boot.

00:59:42.200 Well, thank you so much, Dr. Boot.

00:59:44.180 I appreciate you taking the time to talk to us.

00:59:46.140 Thank you very much, Ali.

00:59:49.000 God bless you.

Relatable with Allie Beth Stuckey - December 14, 2021

Ep 538 ｜ Conversion Therapy & Canada’s Assault on Christianity ｜ Guest： Dr. Joseph Boot

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