Relatable with Allie Beth Stuckey - Ep 547 ｜ The Christian Nationalist Bogeyman

00:00:00.000 hey guys welcome to relatable hope everyone is having a wonderful week so far happy wednesday

00:00:15.440 if you haven't listened to monday and tuesday's episodes make sure you do that got lots of good

00:00:20.920 stuff talked about lots of things in both of those episodes this episode is brought to you

00:00:26.520 by our friends at good ranchers we love good ranchers beef and better than organic chicken

00:00:33.120 at our house make sure you check them out at good ranchers.com slash alley all right today we are

00:00:38.820 going to talk about a few things that are just grinding my gears we're going to talk about

00:00:42.780 these accusations of january 6th being the same thing as 9-11 or as pearl harbor and this threat

00:00:51.820 of christian nationalism that we are just seeing everywhere i want to give you my response to that

00:00:59.200 we'll talk about a few other things too if i have time i'm also going to answer some questions that

00:01:03.580 you guys sent me on instagram uh first let's talk about let's talk about uh january 6th a little bit

00:01:12.020 i know you guys are probably tired of hearing about january 6th so am i but we're not going to stop

00:01:17.540 hearing about it because this is going to be what the democrats continue to use to convince people to

00:01:24.920 give them more power it's a little ironic that while they're saying that the right is threatening

00:01:32.060 democracy and they're using january 6th as proof of that they are asking you to give the federal

00:01:38.040 government more power over things like elections as i mentioned yesterday and maybe mentioned monday as

00:01:43.720 well that's going to be the next big push so joe biden's signature legislation that huge bill

00:01:50.960 build back better that had all kinds of left-wing agenda items maybe some good things maybe some

00:01:59.340 bipartisan things but ultimately the cost was just too high to get uh enough senators on board and of

00:02:06.360 course republicans are glad about this conservatives are glad about this uh because of the price tag and

00:02:11.460 also just because of the uh socially left-wing uh items that were in the bill so because that failed

00:02:20.240 at least for now they're going to try to push this voting bill and what they're saying is of course that

00:02:27.720 we have to push this because states are trying to restrict people's right to vote and they are

00:02:34.960 disproportionately affecting black and brown communities in states like texas and georgia that

00:02:41.380 passed voter integrity laws now we talked with governor kemp of georgia about just the straight up

00:02:48.940 propaganda that was circulating about the georgia election bill last year most of what was being

00:02:58.080 said negatively about that bill simply was not true it was just based in a lie we'll link that episode

00:03:04.900 in the description to this episode so you can go back and listen to it and the same was true about

00:03:11.940 the texas bill it's simply not true that the effect of these bills or even the intent of these bills

00:03:18.900 is to restrict voting access in any way this is a concern of a lot of people on the right of course

00:03:25.880 that our elections have integrity one of the main things that conservatives push for is voter id

00:03:34.400 because people who are not citizens in this country should not be able to vote and um that is common sense

00:03:43.680 in most countries around the world that is not some extreme right-wing position it's just common sense

00:03:50.340 there are even blue states that have these laws and um we are being told however that that is racist

00:03:59.300 because that disproportionately affects black people who apparently are less able to to get an id i mean

00:04:08.140 this is being said by the same people that are requiring vaccine verification to access basic

00:04:14.720 services and restaurants and bars and things like that in several democratic run cities across the

00:04:21.560 country so really what it seems is that democrats are simply trying to pass this federal voting

00:04:27.280 legislation because they want to make it harder for states to be able to run their own elections 0.55

00:04:33.320 and make it more difficult for republicans to win and they want to be able to grant the right to vote to

00:04:40.040 illegal immigrants who they think are going to vote for them and secure their power that is from my 0.69

00:04:45.360 perspective what this is all about this is not a piece of civil rights legislation this is not

00:04:50.300 protecting democracy because democracy is not under attack by the right despite what we heard repeatedly

00:04:58.440 on the anniversary i don't know what else to call it anniversary of january 6th that's what we heard

00:05:04.220 over and over again from democratic pundits from people who consider themselves you know principled

00:05:10.560 conservatives that january 6th was an assault on our democracy that's why democrats have to pass this

00:05:18.260 piece of voting legislation to secure our democracy but it's total projection and it's a farce so you

00:05:23.620 probably heard that vice president kamala harris likened january 6th to pearl harbor in 9-11

00:05:29.840 apparently placing americans in the same category as foreign enemies i think that's significant

00:05:36.160 on msnbc there was a historian named douglas brinkley who echoed that sentiment saying that the nation is

00:05:43.440 currently engaged in a neo-civil war because of what happened on january 6th last year democratic

00:05:49.700 congresswoman ayanna prasley insisted that january 6th demonstrates this imminent threat of white

00:05:56.740 supremacy um to our country that underscores the need for congress to restore voting rights again i want

00:06:04.240 to say voting rights are not in any way under assault i mean it is just as much a conspiracy theory

00:06:12.180 there are equal components of conspiracy in the theory that there is rampant voter suppression

00:06:20.200 as there is with the theory that there is rampant voter fraud and so we talk about q anon and blue

00:06:28.080 anon there are some fringe conspiracy theorists on the right who believe some aspects of you know q anon

00:06:34.700 conspiracy but there are a far greater number of blue anon believers on the left that believe conspiracy

00:06:41.160 theories like there is rampant voter suppression in the united states it's just not happening at least

00:06:48.200 not on a wide scale the requirement of voter id which by the way about 77 percent of all american

00:06:56.920 support has nothing to do with suppressing the vote but as i said democrats are going to continue to use

00:07:04.340 january 6th as their way to gain more political power in the name of preserving democracy the question

00:07:11.620 i want to explore is was january 6th an assault on our democracy was it a christian nationalist

00:07:18.600 specifically assault on our democracy now i have to caveat this and of course it's annoying because i've said it

00:07:28.460 a million times but you do have to because of course there are people that will take you out of context

00:07:33.600 and i'll assume nefarious motivations and all of that and so i just have to say that of course

00:07:40.220 the violence that was perpetrated i'm not talking about the peaceful people who went to the rallies and

00:07:46.300 the peaceful people who protested which a lot of people there were just at the rally they wanted to

00:07:51.280 hear president trump speak and they had no part of the violence or the trespassing or anything that

00:07:55.940 happened actually at the capital but of course the violence and the aggression that was perpetrated

00:08:01.280 at the capital was wrong it was totally can it was it was totally out of line it was criminal they

00:08:08.700 should be prosecuted i think we talked about this yesterday like i feel no need to associate or

00:08:13.120 affiliate or justify or downplay any of the actual violence that was perpetrated at the capital okay so

00:08:20.980 we all know that when i was watching the footage of what happened and i'm talking about the people

00:08:25.700 pushing down barricades and assaulting police officers and things like that when i was watching

00:08:30.580 that footage in real time last year i cried i mean i really did feel like this marked something very

00:08:38.080 tragic in american history and so you could think i'm being dramatic um by saying that but truly i mean

00:08:44.340 i remember that moment vividly and just feeling so sad for my country so you can't say that i'm trying

00:08:50.480 to downplay it or justify it or anything like that but i can say oh yeah that was really bad and serious

00:08:57.340 what happened there and also say this assertion that this was a threat to our democracy and that

00:09:04.700 the threat to democracy comes from christian nationalists on the right is nothing more than

00:09:09.140 projection it's nothing more than a power play and so i'm going to explain to you exactly

00:09:15.640 why i believe that in just one second there were several articles that came out on january 6th of

00:09:24.960 this year talking about the christian nationalism that was on display at the riot andrew whitehead

00:09:33.640 is the author of taking america back for god and i believe that i've invited him on this podcast

00:09:37.480 but to no avail i think we had a back and forth on on twitter and i i renew that invitation and maybe

00:09:43.820 we'll reach out to him again i would love to have him on to talk about his book taking america back

00:09:48.540 for god where he argues that 30 million at least 30 million people strongly believe in what he calls

00:09:55.460 the dangerous threat of christian nationalism which he believes has the power to topple over

00:09:59.780 american democracy and let me just make a note really fast on democracy i know a lot of people say

00:10:05.420 we don't live in a democracy we live in a constitutional republic which is absolutely true we don't live in a

00:10:09.640 pure democracy and i do think that progressives today would like us to live in a pure

00:10:13.580 democracy even though historically we know that that doesn't work that it leads to the tyranny of

00:10:19.380 the majority and that it can lead to mob rule and that it doesn't actually lead to justice and

00:10:24.000 equality and all of the things that have made america for a very long time great but typically

00:10:30.320 when people say democracy they're not talking necessarily about a pure democracy they might just

00:10:36.820 be talking about you know the democratic idea of being able to vote peaceful transfer of power and

00:10:43.240 things like that so while i do think it's a legitimate pushback to say hey america is not a

00:10:46.940 democracy it's a constitutional republic i do want to give the benefit of the doubt to people who say

00:10:51.400 hey we're trying to preserve democracy that maybe they just mean you know democratic principles that

00:10:58.680 allow us to select our you know uh representatives so uh when andrew whitehead in his book talks about

00:11:07.460 this threat of christian nationalism to democracy he defines christian nationalism basically as the

00:11:13.300 belief that america is and must be kept a christian nation now interestingly in time magazine an article

00:11:20.340 in an article that he wrote that came out on january 6th of this year he talks about one hallmark

00:11:26.880 of of christian nationalism being wanting to protect the integrity of elections and so it's interesting how he

00:11:34.860 collapses all of these very legitimate concerns that a lot of conservatives have about actually

00:11:41.820 protecting our democratic processes with the dangers of christian nationalism and that's of course what i

00:11:46.880 would love to talk to him about on my show kevin de young he writes for world magazine as i do and he

00:11:53.560 wrote uh for the outlet the logical about the logical problems with that definition that andrew whitehead

00:12:00.780 gives he asks some really good questions about like what specifically makes the characteristics that

00:12:07.380 andrew whitehead lists as characteristics of christian nationalism bad and dangerous and theologically

00:12:13.940 incorrect and then another question that i think that we should ask is how should christians then

00:12:19.700 interact in the public sphere if they are not allowed to bring their world view into civic discourse

00:12:27.260 if christians and i guess christians alone are not allowed to allow their faith to inform what they

00:12:33.340 think about policy is that also true of secular atheists everyone has a world view there's no neutrality

00:12:40.020 so why is it that when christians try to influence policy in their communities and and uh laws and issues

00:12:49.500 with their particular perspectives that they are called evil christian nationalists that are a threat to

00:12:55.120 democracy but when secular progressives who by the way are far more um willing to use the power of the

00:13:04.020 government to impose their views on other people why are they not called a threat to democracy so

00:13:11.360 very good questions i recommend that that um article by kevin de young which we can link in the

00:13:19.740 description of this podcast but i want to explore this question in particular is christian nationalism a

00:13:26.440 major threat to democracy as whitehead argues in time magazine also in the new york times there was an

00:13:33.640 article by katherine stewart uh she says that quote american democracy or that christian nationalism may

00:13:41.540 succeed in making quote american democracy a relic of the past russell moore and christianity today

00:13:47.540 he has also written about what he sees as the dangerous popularity of christian nationalism within

00:13:53.020 evangelicalism he has also said that critical race theory is not um a threat or not something that

00:13:59.800 is at all pervasive within evangelicalism and of course i would push back on that as well russell moore

00:14:05.720 is also more than welcome to come on this podcast and we can discuss these very important issues

00:14:10.240 he claimed in christianity today on january 6th that the riots or he calls it an insurrection

00:14:16.020 even though no one by the way has been charged with insurrection or i believe terrorism so it's a

00:14:22.840 little strange when people use that language it's just not legally factually accurate but russell moore

00:14:28.060 argues that the day represented a threat to american democracy um now there were religious symbols that

00:14:37.160 were present at the riot there were people holding up jesus save signs there were people with crosses

00:14:43.500 i think the shaman guy uh he said something about jesus but i don't think that he's actually a

00:14:50.380 christian i think he's some new age person with a very strange worldview um but there were christian

00:14:56.540 symbols on display there maybe some perpetrators of the violence also identified as christians i'm not

00:15:03.540 really sure and there was also a conflation i think of christianity with trump's victory i think we saw

00:15:12.120 that with some people who claimed to get a prophecy from god that trump was supposed to win that that

00:15:17.460 was what was going to save the west and save america that trump was you know god's chosen person in order

00:15:24.860 to restore america as a christian nation some people were calling what happened on january 6th or at least

00:15:31.400 the rally before like a jericho march i guess that they were going to pray and things were going to change

00:15:37.160 to go in favor of trump and so there certainly was conflation of christianity with trump's victory

00:15:44.380 and there seems to be within that view this idea that america is god's chosen nation that america

00:15:54.120 is modern day israel that the promises in the old testament to israel are actually promises to america

00:16:00.360 and i've talked about that how that is faulty theology that that is not true that god's chosen

00:16:06.660 people um is is the church that we those of us who are in christ no matter what your nationality is

00:16:13.780 no matter where you live that we are god's holy priesthood that we are god's chosen people um that

00:16:21.260 america is a wonderful place it's a special place that i think that god has uniquely blessed in a lot of

00:16:27.640 ways i think our founding documents are wonderfully and specially specifically founded upon biblical

00:16:34.800 principles that has allowed us over time to recognize the dignity of all people that has created the

00:16:43.580 the freest and the most flourishing constitutional republic and the oldest constitutional republic in

00:16:49.600 world history so i think that there are so many wonderful parts of america because of the foundation

00:16:56.660 um that the uh founding documents were built upon in scripture the right to life to not be murdered the

00:17:08.380 right to property the right to due process all of these were founded in the laws that god gave to

00:17:13.540 israel that does not mean that america is modern day israel or that america is god's chosen nation so

00:17:19.200 i am fine with pushback i'm fine with pushback against some of the theology that some of the people

00:17:24.860 perhaps present their hold and some of the the rhetoric that seems to just get christianity

00:17:31.480 wrong and seems to center america in biblical prophecies and believes that the fate of america

00:17:38.840 is an integral part of you know the coming of god's kingdom and the end times i think it's fine to refute

00:17:46.100 that i think it's great to detach christianity from some of the things that we saw at the capitol riot

00:17:51.460 that is all well and good i don't have a problem with that what i have a problem with is this idea

00:17:56.320 that christian nationalism is this grave threat to or is the biggest threat to evangelicalism and is a

00:18:05.380 grave threat to american democracy i just don't think that we have the evidence to to show that at all i

00:18:13.740 mean let's just think about this just let's just think about this logically we have been hearing for

00:18:19.520 decades from intelligentsia from academia that the christian nationalist fascist theocratic state

00:18:27.440 is imminent we've been hearing that since at least the 1970s that christians are going to take over and

00:18:32.600 it's going to be the handmaid's tale basically and that they're going to force you to do all of these

00:18:40.120 things that christians want you to do that's happening that's going to happen really soon and yet

00:18:44.880 what does what what does the data say pew research just came out with a new study that reiterates what

00:18:52.540 we have been hearing for at least the past 15 years that america is becoming more secular i'll read you

00:19:00.020 some of some of the numbers so in 2007 that's what this study covers 2007 78 of u.s adults um identified

00:19:10.800 with christianity from 2007 to uh 2021 that dropped by 15 percent so now only 63 percent of americans

00:19:22.660 identify as christians the number of people who identify with other religions has remained stable

00:19:28.640 it was five percent in 2007 it's only six percent uh today but the number of people who now identify

00:19:34.780 with no religion has risen steadily 16 percent in 2007 29 percent in 2021 so almost a third of the

00:19:43.900 country identifies um as religiously unaffiliated and the biggest groups that we have seen that change

00:19:51.820 in um is millennials and then of course generation z so america is becoming more secular drastically

00:19:59.020 dramatically america also a study by pew research shows that america has become more liberal over the

00:20:07.300 past few decades especially since barack obama became president we've talked about that a lot

00:20:13.200 let's consider the fact that every major institution in the united states today much of the federal

00:20:19.040 government academia the public school system uh hollywood silicon valley the country's most powerful

00:20:26.540 corporations and most of the mainstream media are all dominated by left-wing ideology so the

00:20:33.500 institutional power much of the military much of the federal government they are all at least socially

00:20:40.920 if not completely economically as well uh left-wing just consider how much has changed over the last

00:20:49.560 decade that proves this trend towards secularism and leftism it's even it's hard to even imagine this

00:20:56.520 but 10 years ago the majority of americans opposed same-sex marriage only 48 percent of americans in

00:21:03.900 2012 uh supported the legalization of same-sex marriage and then of course in 2015 gay marriage

00:21:11.860 became legal that's only a few years ago it's crazy to think only seven years ago was obergefell the

00:21:18.320 supreme court decision on gay marriage and now the vast majority of people i think it's over 70 percent

00:21:26.500 probably more than that because i think this pew poll that looks at this it stops in 2000 stops in

00:21:32.760 2018 so i'm sure it's 75 80 percent of americans now support same-sex marriage that happened really

00:21:39.480 fast in a matter of just 10 years think about just five years ago we were not having debates about

00:21:46.360 preferred pronouns and we probably weren't having as many debates serious debates about men competing in

00:21:54.040 women's sports that just wasn't mainstream things have changed really fast the progressive sexual

00:21:59.780 revolution has successfully won many people over including professing christians many of whom call

00:22:07.020 themselves ex-evangelicals who may still identify as christians but accept almost every single worldly

00:22:14.740 uh piece of worldly dogma when it comes to sexuality and when it comes to morality as well as almost every

00:22:24.020 single agenda item of the democratic party so knowing all of this it just seems very far-fetched

00:22:33.420 in a country where for example bakers and florist lives are nearly ruined completely for simply

00:22:44.220 abiding by their own conscience and sincerely held religious beliefs by refusing to service gay weddings 0.99

00:22:51.840 but a gender confused girl can receive hormone therapy without her parents consent in the state of 0.98

00:23:01.300 california and oregon and elsewhere it's just hard to believe in a nation where that's happening in a

00:23:08.160 nation where drag queen story hour has become mainstream in a nation where every single corporation

00:23:13.980 clamors to say black lives matter and yay pride month that christian nationalism is even close

00:23:24.760 to the top of the list of the things that are threatening america's stability and let's just remember and i know

00:23:33.580 people hate when you bring this up people hate when you bring this up but it's totally fair game it's

00:23:39.320 totally fair game to bring this up when you say that one riot is the threat to democracy but all of

00:23:45.440 these other riots over here are not a threat to democracy it is not what aboutism to say well why

00:23:51.580 why is one riot a threat to democracy and the other riots are not a threat to democracy that's not

00:23:56.740 diminishing the riots that happened on january 6th it's simply asking what's the motivation for

00:24:02.860 nodding in approval or at least ignoring the riots that lasted for a month in 2020 and only being

00:24:11.280 laser focused on the riot that happened on january 6th and saying that one is a threat to democracy and

00:24:17.420 one is just fine when objectively the riots that happened over the course of more than six months in

00:24:25.860 2020 in the name of social justice were far more destructive they were far more destructive and far

00:24:32.580 more deadly 25 people at least 25 people murdered including children secoria turner was a little girl in

00:24:42.560 atlanta who was murdered by someone who was rioting after the death of rayshard brooks an armed person

00:24:52.100 who was shot and killed by the police little eight-year-old girl murdered by a rioter antonio mays was a

00:25:02.400 16 year old that was murdered by a rioter david dorn um these are all happened to be black americans by the

00:25:09.100 way he was a former police captain that was murdered i believe in saint louis by rioters and there were

00:25:16.340 many other uh innocent americans who were killed in these riots that is not true of january 6th no matter

00:25:27.420 what democrats want you to believe they even included uh when they were talking about the

00:25:34.040 people who died at the january 6th riot uh you may remember that no one actually was killed on uh on

00:25:43.620 the day of the riot except for ashley babbitt she was someone who broke into the capitol and she was

00:25:48.800 shot by a police officer there were police officers who very sadly committed suicide after

00:25:54.280 but they were not killed on the day of the riot there was a police officer that was killed in

00:26:01.660 april of 2021 and president biden as well as some other democratic politicians included him in their

00:26:11.660 statements about january 6th saying that this was a police officer whose life was lost um because of

00:26:19.420 violence at the capitol except the violence that killed this particular officer uh was perpetrated

00:26:26.120 by a man named noah green he was a 25 year old black nationalist a fierce a fierce follower of lewis

00:26:36.360 farrakhan and he killed a capitol police officer named billy evans and yet you're actually hearing from

00:26:43.760 the left that this person or implicitly they're saying that this person died because of january 6th

00:26:50.540 uh january 6th violence which is simply not true it's not true and so the effects and the damage done

00:27:01.340 between what happened on january 6th and what happened um by left wing at the hands of left wing

00:27:10.340 agitators for more than six months in 2020 it's not even comparable more people dead because of the

00:27:17.560 riots in 2020 billions of dollars of damage lost businesses destroyed communities arson looting and

00:27:25.440 you cannot tell me that this was justified you you can't tell me um that this somehow was motivated

00:27:33.140 by a righteous cause it wasn't you're kidding yourself if you still think that people were cleaning

00:27:39.440 out foot lockers or stealing big screen tvs from best buy or stealing handles of tequila from the

00:27:45.780 liquor store for social and racial justice come on like let's be let's be serious here and let's talk

00:27:53.160 about the damage that was inflicted on these communities many of which are poor and uh are lived in

00:28:02.440 by minority communities who did nothing wrong that is the definition of injustice you are punishing people 0.93

00:28:08.140 who did nothing wrong there was far more damage and a far greater threat to stability

00:28:13.440 and democracy by the way uh that was demonstrated in these riots that threatened the safety of so

00:28:22.340 many people throughout 2020 a far bigger threat uh demonstrated in those riots than what we saw on january 6th

00:28:30.920 they can both be bad but if we're actually comparing real threats and if we're actually comparing real

00:28:38.760 damage like it doesn't even come close and by the way some of these people were burning american flags

00:28:45.080 in 2020 and saying death to america they were actually explicitly calling for an end of american systems

00:28:52.520 and yet somehow that's righteous and okay and not that bad and you're not allowed to bring that up

00:28:57.740 because that's what about is um really the people who are saying that oh you can't bring that up on

00:29:04.720 january 6th because that's what about ism and you're trying to downplay it the reality is they they never

00:29:08.940 think that there's a good time to talk about the 2020 riots because it doesn't fit that particular

00:29:13.980 narrative furthermore on this idea that christian nationalism right-wing christian nationalism is the

00:29:21.960 big threat to american democracy like look at look at the tyranny that is at play today look at a country

00:29:31.140 or um look at countries in australia look at how they're treating their people look at uh look at the

00:29:39.420 policies that are forcing people to quarantine look at the restrictions against people who chose not to

00:29:48.040 get vaccinated or couldn't get vaccinated that are preventing them from being able to work to provide

00:29:54.180 for their families to go to grocery stores no matter what you think about the efficacy of the vaccine

00:29:59.700 which it's an accepted fact at this point that the vaccine is not stopping infection or transmission

00:30:04.220 like this isn't even if you thought that it was good policy that everyone should be forced to be

00:30:08.980 vaccinated for fear of losing their livelihood it doesn't make any logical sense at this point because

00:30:15.800 the vaccines aren't working to stop infection and transmission you can look at all of the numbers

00:30:20.560 around the world and that is abundantly clear like the data is absolutely out there you're not even less

00:30:25.740 likely to get infected at this point if you're vaccinated so if you look at the threat of

00:30:32.860 totalitarianism who is actually taking away people's right to worship to gather with their family

00:30:40.420 to go to school and get an education to move freely to access basic services to be able to go into

00:30:47.540 restaurants the governments that are inflicting these burdens on people are not conservative governments

00:30:54.440 the governments that are most seriously hindering people's rights right now and are hindering the spirit

00:31:02.020 of democracy are left-wing governments they're not conservative governments so this is all projection

00:31:08.260 to me you can say that tenets of christian nationalism are bad you can even say that if they became

00:31:14.240 mainstream that they would be a threat make that argument that's fine but to say that that is where

00:31:19.920 the threat of totalitarianism of tyranny comes from that this is going to be the day that lives in

00:31:26.540 infamy if america falls into a dictatorship it's absurd it's sheer projection the threat of tyranny

00:31:35.260 incontrovertibly incontrovertibly right now comes from the left and there is no question about that

00:31:42.600 it is far more mainstream it is far more powerful it as an ideology is far more pervasive and so the

00:31:51.700 people who act like they are so brave speaking out about the threat of christian nationalism look i commend

00:32:00.380 you for caring about freedom for caring about liberty for wanting to stand for america and certainly

00:32:05.520 wanting to stand for good theology the problem is you're wasting too much energy in the wrong direction

00:32:10.500 christian nationalism does not have the institutional power and it does not have the popularity

00:32:17.400 to be able to threaten democratic norms in the united states the threats

00:32:23.940 that we see that are happening right now are without a doubt coming from the left that is just that is

00:32:32.260 just a fact and within the church definitely definitely the biggest points of confusion that the church seems

00:32:42.400 to have right now have to do with a biblical definition of justice versus left-wing social justice

00:32:50.620 how we should handle hot topics like gender sex sexuality abortion how bold we should be in speaking

00:32:59.180 the truth and love about these things it's progressivism that has truly deluded so many christians

00:33:05.600 and has thrown them into chaos and confusion when it comes to very basic biblical issues about human beings

00:33:13.880 about the value of human life about the definition of marriage what true biblical love sounds like

00:33:20.060 and looks like that is not just endless tolerance of sin and affirmation of people's identities

00:33:26.940 and superficial empathy and virtue signaling uh that is what most christians i would say

00:33:35.460 are confused about right now it is not at least not predominantly christian nationalism it's just not

00:33:44.020 okay i'm gonna answer a couple of the questions that you guys sent me on instagram

00:33:48.920 one question that i got is what i think about the pope's recent statements that people who choose not to

00:33:55.700 have kids and prioritize their pets over kids are selfish so you guys know i don't agree with the pope

00:34:04.020 on a lot i am protestant and i believe in the tenets of protestantism which means that the pope

00:34:12.560 i don't believe has any authority over christianity he is not someone that i would go to uh for a

00:34:20.240 theological advice and i know a lot of catholics happen to believe that as well about this particular

00:34:25.360 pope he's a little bit more progressive when it comes to several issues which is why it was a bit

00:34:30.600 surprising actually to hear him say that people who prioritize having pets over kids are selfish and that

00:34:36.580 it's important to have children but it has been catholic uh a doctrine for as long as the catholic

00:34:43.500 church has existed to really prioritize having children and forming a family and that's something 0.76

00:34:48.560 that i really appreciate about catholicism that they really do um at least classically traditionally have

00:34:55.660 a wonderful and clear theology of the body and the sanctity of human life and so the pope seems to

00:35:04.420 kind of reiterate that here but of course you can imagine that he got a lot of pushback now i wrote

00:35:09.820 in my book you're not enough and that's okay i wrote about this phenomenon of young people purposely

00:35:18.020 choosing to remain childless and so i'm not talking about people who are unmarried you know who would

00:35:26.020 like to be married and like to have children one day and who happen to have a pet i'm not talking about

00:35:31.500 people who cannot have children who again would love to have children but they're unable to who

00:35:36.840 have pets i'm not talking about that i am talking about people who purposely um choose not to have

00:35:43.560 children and especially christians who choose not to have children and decide that they you know want

00:35:48.980 their pets to be their children personally i believe that the people who make that decision the reason

00:35:57.000 why they so fiercely love their pets is actually because they are trying to satisfy

00:36:02.760 this biological drive in all or most of us to have offspring and to take care of them

00:36:12.420 there gets that we get to a point in our lives where our bodies our minds our hormones are geared

00:36:19.960 toward reproduction and to be able to take care of a baby a little person a child and when that is not

00:36:29.240 satisfied by choice or not we are going to look to other objects of our affection so i actually think

00:36:37.500 that the reason why you see not just a love for pets which i think is great i love animals and i think

00:36:42.140 pets are awesome but an obsession over animals to the point to where

00:36:46.640 um you really see a parent-like affection and fidelity to a pet i really think it is people

00:36:56.580 trying to replace their god-given desire and need and drive for um for offspring with the love that they

00:37:06.120 have for their pets so i uh i agree with that aspect of what of what he is saying now all of that said

00:37:16.400 i know people who have chosen i can think of two people right off the top of my head who have chosen

00:37:21.640 who are married who have chosen not to have kids and who have pets and who really love their pets maybe

00:37:26.360 they don't love their pets in an unhealthy way but they love their pets who are not selfish people

00:37:30.980 they are wonderful people like they are kind people they are compassionate people they are generous

00:37:35.700 people and they're they're not selfish so i cannot say that somebody who chooses not to have a child

00:37:41.560 and decides to prioritize having a pet over a child that they are across the board a selfish person

00:37:47.500 there are also people who have kids i mean we've talked a lot about toxic mommy culture

00:37:51.940 we talked yesterday or the day before yesterday about the parents who are allowing covid paranoia

00:37:57.620 to allow them to be terrible parents to separate themselves from their child when their child is sick

00:38:02.880 we talked about that mom who put their kid in the trunk of her car because he was covid positive

00:38:08.300 and she didn't want to be exposed to covid so there are a lot of selfish people who are parents

00:38:12.980 and there are a lot of i think unselfish people who have pets rather than kids and so i can't make

00:38:18.680 the same categorical judgment and i think i did initially say that i agreed with what the pope said

00:38:24.200 but upon some reflection and thinking about that i just don't think that i can make that judgment

00:38:28.440 across the board now i will say i will say what i um what i have said many times reiterating kind of

00:38:36.660 what i already said a couple minutes ago but if you are married and you can have children i absolutely

00:38:43.420 think that you should there is no biblical basis for choosing not to have children if you can have

00:38:50.800 children and if you are married there simply is not the desire to have a career instead of children

00:38:59.140 the desire to travel instead of children the desire to find yourself and work on yourself and be in

00:39:04.720 shape and keep your body and your appearance looking a certain way instead of children none of these

00:39:10.700 choices have a biblical basis everywhere we see in scripture talking about children we see children

00:39:18.460 and pregnancy and childbearing as a blessing not a curse so we see the bible repeatedly tells us

00:39:26.780 that children are a blessing not a burden that image bearers of god are a credit to the world

00:39:33.540 not a debit to the world or to the environment the christian doesn't live in such fear of the

00:39:39.600 future in such fear of the collapse of the world because of climate change or even immorality or

00:39:45.720 tyranny that we refuse to trust in god to populate the earth with his image bearers that we can teach 1.00

00:39:55.360 and by god's grace um will become kind and wise and bold and courageous people who love god with all

00:40:03.280 their heart mind soul and strength and love their neighbor as themselves who can discern truth from

00:40:08.960 a lie and good from evil that's what we want now more than ever christians need to have kids i

00:40:14.580 understand the fear i understand the fear of not wanting to raise kids in this backwards crazy 0.99

00:40:19.840 sometimes terrifying world i really do but the last thing we need is for christians to be the ones to 0.92

00:40:27.480 say we're not going to we're we're not going to have kids we're not going to have kids who do know

00:40:35.280 what is good and right and true and live that out that's the worst thing we can possibly do god knew

00:40:41.560 exactly what was going to happen in this era when he put us on earth when he did and when he is going

00:40:48.820 to put our children on earth when he is going to put them and our grandchildren and our great

00:40:53.800 grandchildren we are not here arbitrarily we are not here accidentally all of us are here when and

00:40:59.260 where we are for a reason and that reason is to obey god and to bring glory to him he will equip

00:41:06.520 your children in the particular way that they need to be equipped to do that he will equip you to raise

00:41:12.440 them to be equipped to do that so i do echo the sentiment of the pope to have children if you can't

00:41:20.700 have children do i think that you are categorically selfish for choosing not to have children no because

00:41:29.520 like i said i know many people who have made that choice who are wonderful people but do i encourage

00:41:34.640 you to have children if you can and if you are married i absolutely do and just pray about it your

00:41:39.980 mind and your heart will can absolutely change the number of messages that i get from you guys uh you

00:41:46.540 said that you listen to you know me say something like this and you and your husband decided to start

00:41:51.180 trying to have kids and then you message me and tell me that you're pregnant i love it those are some

00:41:56.220 of my favorite messages to get all right guys hope you enjoyed that episode today thanks so much

00:42:03.900 for listening and for watching we will be back here tomorrow

Relatable with Allie Beth Stuckey - January 12, 2022

Ep 547 ｜ The Christian Nationalist Bogeyman

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