Relatable with Allie Beth Stuckey - Ep 562 ｜ Why Didn’t Trump Fire Dr. Fauci？｜ Guest： Dr. Scott Atlas

00:00:00.000 Hey guys, welcome to Relatable. Happy Thursday. This episode is brought to you by our friends at

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00:00:19.380 Okay, today we are talking to Dr. Scott Atlas. He was part of the COVID task force in the Trump

00:00:36.040 White House, and he recently wrote this bombshell book called A Plague Upon Our House, My Fight at

00:00:41.780 the Trump White House to Stop COVID from Destroying America. And as you will hear him say today,

00:00:47.600 it really wasn't COVID that destroyed America as much as it was the COVID policies that were being

00:00:54.860 pushed by unscientific bureaucrats, Deborah Birx, Anthony Fauci, the head of the CDC. He reveals so

00:01:04.640 much behind the scenes corruption that was and is going on. This is going to be an enlightening

00:01:11.980 conversation. This is going to be in some ways a frustrating conversation. He obviously has a

00:01:17.420 medical background, Dr. Atlas as a radiologist. He is also Robert Wesson, Senior Fellow in Healthcare

00:01:23.900 Policy at the Hoover Institution. And he has been in the thick of this fight over the past couple of

00:01:31.440 years. And he has a lot to tell us today. You are going to love this conversation. Before we get into

00:01:38.560 that, I do want to follow up on what we talked about yesterday, the free crack pipes for equity story.

00:01:46.840 If you haven't listened to that episode or watched that episode on YouTube, definitely go do that.

00:01:53.180 But I wanted to follow up on it because Snopes published a fact check on this story after it

00:01:59.720 started circulating. It was originally reported, at least on what I saw, in the Washington Free Beacon.

00:02:06.320 And you had a lot of conservatives picking up the story, reporting on it, of course,

00:02:11.740 relatable included in that. And then you had a response from leftist journalists, particularly

00:02:18.240 in the left wing salon news outlet, and then from Snopes and then even Jen Psaki and the HHS responded

00:02:27.640 to these claims that the Biden administration was going to use American tax dollars to provide

00:02:34.660 crack pipes in what's called safe smoking kits as a part of, quote, harm or risk reduction.

00:02:43.560 So Snopes responded to this and basically said, no, that's not true. So originally yesterday,

00:02:49.480 their fact check said that this is mostly false, except in their fact check, what they said was,

00:02:56.780 okay, yes, crack pipes are going to be included in these, quote, safety or safe smoking kits.

00:03:06.200 But crack pipes are just one of the many things that are going to be included in these smoking

00:03:12.300 kits. There's also going to be syringes. There's also going to be disinfectant wipes. And so it

00:03:17.940 wasn't actually mostly false. It was just that they didn't like that conservatives were focusing

00:03:23.880 on the crack pipe part of the story and not, I guess, all of the other items that were going to

00:03:29.860 be in the smoking kits. However, Snopes has now updated their fact check to say that this is not

00:03:35.520 mostly false. It's just outdated. So here's what Snopes has to say. They say that the articles and social

00:03:43.520 media posts were misleading, giving readers the impression, a reductive presentation and the false

00:03:50.920 impression that they were only including crack pipes in these safe smoking kits. And they say,

00:03:59.460 it's true that grant description require the provision of harm reduction supplies and listed

00:04:05.340 safe smoking kits as an example, an established component of harm reduction strategy. Remember

00:04:11.000 yesterday I said that that is a very propaganda phrase. There really is no safe way to encourage

00:04:16.560 and enable people to smoke crack and take fentanyl and things like that. But in reality,

00:04:21.720 Snopes says, those kits constituted just one of several subcomponents of an even longer list of

00:04:27.620 requirements for grant recipients. In other words, while outraged media coverage focused almost

00:04:32.300 exclusively on crack pipes, this was actually only a very small part of the program, Snopes says.

00:04:39.040 They go on to say this was their original fact check. Secondly, the provision of safer smoking

00:04:44.060 supplies did not have as its purpose advancing the cause of racial equity. Rather, its purpose was

00:04:49.640 quite logically, so unbiased, Snopes, to reduce harm and infection among existing drug users. However,

00:04:57.640 so again, they do the fact check and then they follow up and they explain why the conservatives were

00:05:02.160 actually correct. However, Snopes says the grant description did state that priority would be given

00:05:07.060 to applicants who serve communities that are historically underserved. In other words,

00:05:12.340 the grant's terms encourage recipients to advance racial equity while working for harm reduction.

00:05:17.980 OK, so this is what Snopes does. They rate a claim by a conservative outlet or conservative social

00:05:25.920 media users as false or mostly false or grossly misleading. And then they just explain why the

00:05:33.780 conservative take was correct. Obviously, that's not true in every single claim that circulates in

00:05:38.360 right wing social media and right wing media. But that was certainly the case here. It's been

00:05:43.040 the case many times in the past. So then they go on to update this particular fact check,

00:05:51.060 this original fact check by saying, however, after this fact was published, Snopes says the Department

00:05:57.080 of Health and Human Services on February 9th provided Snopes a statement which stipulated that federal funding

00:06:01.820 would not be used to include pipes and smoking kits as part of the harm reduction plan.

00:06:06.380 As a result, the accurate component of early news reports that safe smoking kits typically contain

00:06:11.320 glass pipes was no longer applicable. And that initial wave of outrage was rendered outdated.

00:06:16.560 As such, Snopes has changed its rating from mostly false to outdated. So here's what the HHS

00:06:24.360 specifically said. Here's what their statement said. And we have to listen very carefully to this.

00:06:28.900 HHS and ONDCP, that's the Office of National Drug Control Policy,

00:06:33.480 are focused on using resources smartly to reduce harm and save lives. Accordingly,

00:06:38.460 no federal funding will be used directly or through subsequent reimbursement of grantees to put pipes

00:06:44.120 in safe smoking kits. The goal of harm reduction is to save lives. The administration is focused on a

00:06:49.520 comprehensive strategy to stop the spread of drugs and curb addiction, including prioritizing the use of

00:06:54.760 proven harm reduction strategies like fentanyl test strips and clean syringes,

00:06:59.940 and also taking decisive actions to go after violent criminals who are trafficking illicit drugs

00:07:06.060 like fentanyl across our borders and into our communities.

00:07:09.800 All right. There are so many things I want to say about that.

00:07:12.760 Let's be very careful in reading this statement because the devil is in the details or sometimes

00:07:19.760 the lack of what is actually said, the lack of details that's provided in a statement.

00:07:24.620 But there is one detail here that I think that we need to pay attention to that I think tells us

00:07:30.460 what is actually going on. No federal funding will be used directly or through subsequent

00:07:38.180 reimbursement of grantees to put pipes in safe smoking kits. That does not say that pipes will not

00:07:44.960 be in safe smoking kits, but that federal funding will not be used directly or through the reimbursement

00:07:52.900 of grantees to put pipes in the safe smoking kits. So we don't know whether or not crack pipes will

00:07:58.180 actually be provided to these to these drug addicted people, people suffering from drug addiction.

00:08:06.300 They're just saying that federal funding is not going to be used for that. We know that in states

00:08:11.180 that actually provide these so-called safe smoking kits, that crack pipes are typically included as

00:08:16.360 well as syringes. Of course, we talked about everything that's going on in San Francisco

00:08:20.200 yesterday. I won't rehash that now. Like I said, go listen to that episode. So I think the fact that

00:08:26.680 Snopes is not saying that it's completely false, that Snopes is now saying it's outdated and that

00:08:31.640 the HHS is being very careful not to say that crack pipes are not going to be included, but only that

00:08:36.900 our federal funds, which I don't even totally believe, our federal funds aren't going to be funding

00:08:41.560 the purchase and the distribution of that particular item. I think that tells us that there is a lot of truth

00:08:49.400 to this story. And also there's obviously a lot of truth to the racial equity aspect of it, because

00:08:54.680 even Snopes was forced to admit that. And even if the crack pipes are not being provided to people

00:09:00.740 who are suffering from drug addiction, apparently syringes are. So again, this administration is

00:09:06.700 enabling in some ways drug use. And we talked about how, yes, there are different programs in a variety

00:09:12.800 of states in the United States, in a variety of countries across the world that have tried these

00:09:17.180 things. But the countries across the world who have been doing this effectively are not enabling

00:09:23.760 and attempting to destigmatize public drug use the way progressive cities in the United States

00:09:30.320 are. So I think that I think that they just got a little bit nervous. The administration got a little

00:09:37.600 nervous, the liberal media, maybe the HHS got a little nervous about this, and they kind of wanted

00:09:42.460 to backpedal. Jin Saki did say that the crack pipes apparently are not part of this plan. Again,

00:09:49.980 I would say that's kind of careful rhetoric. I just wanted, though, to provide you guys with that

00:09:56.760 information and with that clarification, because it is my it's one of my jobs to give you as much

00:10:02.640 information as possible. You guys know I'm going to have my particular perspective on it. I'm going to

00:10:07.240 have my particular take. I don't hide where I'm coming from. But I also want you guys to know as

00:10:13.500 much as possible, do your own research and arrive at your own conclusions. That's one reason why we

00:10:18.900 always include links in the description of these episodes, because I want you guys to read these

00:10:23.600 things on your own. So we'll do that again today. And I just wanted to make sure that I added that bit

00:10:28.100 of clarification. It's it's a valid story. It's a ridiculous story. It's an absurd story. It's a really

00:10:33.440 sad story. And if you want to hear about the worldview implications of it, again, listen to

00:10:38.000 yesterday's episode. Dr. Atlas, thank you so much for joining us. You wrote a book, which I've heard

00:10:46.200 you talk about a few times, A Plague Upon Our House, My Fight at the Trump White House to Stop

00:10:51.120 COVID from Destroying America. So for those who don't know, I'm guessing there's a lot of people in

00:10:57.640 the audience who are already familiar. But for those who don't know, why did you decide to write this book?

00:11:02.080 Well, really, I tried to write it for three reasons. Number one, to set the record straight

00:11:10.220 for the American people on who these people were, they were really in charge of the White House

00:11:15.560 policy. And what that what I mean by that is the White House Task Force, the faces of public health

00:11:21.660 leadership that that wrote all the policy to the governors, the guidelines, and that set the policy

00:11:29.420 to the states and their local health officials by visiting. And that means Dr. Deborah Birx,

00:11:35.580 who was the official White House Task Force coordinator, which means she was in charge of the

00:11:40.340 medical advice coming out of the task force. Dr. Anthony Fauci was most visible face of the federal

00:11:47.440 guidelines and advice on the medical side. And Dr. Redfield, who was the head of the CDC,

00:11:53.620 the most influential public health agency, as we know. So that was what reason number one,

00:11:59.360 to show people, the American people, what kind of level of incompetence, lack of scientific thinking,

00:12:07.560 lack of critical thinking, lack of scientific preparation, I encountered when I walked in there

00:12:13.660 at the end of July, beginning of August 2020. The second reason was to set the facts straight without

00:12:21.200 the filter that distorted the facts from the media, social media, the politicized government

00:12:29.420 bureaucracies, and academia, frankly, that distorted, lied, censored dissenting views, etc. I wanted to set

00:12:39.000 the facts straight because these facts have been censored. And then the third reason, the biggest reason

00:12:44.960 of all, is that people need to understand what's happened now. We are a society, the pandemic management

00:12:52.920 has exposed serious problems in America's society, as well as other places, but we care about the U.S.

00:13:00.300 because it's my country. And so, you know, we see a lack of trust now in public health, a lack of trust in the

00:13:09.640 media, in the government, all the institutions that we rely on for truths, so that we can make

00:13:17.260 assessments as individuals of what's best for ourselves and our families. That trust has been

00:13:23.060 shattered by erratic statements, by politicized statements, by censorship actions, and all kinds

00:13:32.620 of things that we never thought would happen in this country. We need to fix that, because we need to

00:13:38.720 have free flow of information so that we, as a free society, can make assessments and solve future

00:13:46.820 crises without that free flow of information. And that means without intimidation, without censure,

00:13:54.100 without, you know, overt censorship. If we don't have that information, how are we as individuals going

00:14:01.280 to make decisions, going to be able to tell what's true from what's false, and going to help our own

00:14:07.800 families and our children? So we need to fix these institutions. And I'm sure once you kind of got

00:14:14.160 into the Trump administration, you even were a little shocked, it sounds like, about the lack of

00:14:23.740 following the science that was occurring within this team that was supposed to be on the front lines

00:14:31.840 of fighting COVID, Deborah Birx, as you said, and Dr. Fauci. Now, Dr. Fauci has been subject to probably

00:14:38.200 the most criticism from the right, but you seem to be arguing that it's really Deborah Birx, who was the

00:14:45.820 author of a lot of the policies that were not based in science, were based in, I'm not sure, paranoia,

00:14:52.940 feelings, hubris. Can you talk a little bit more about that? What was going on once you joined the task force,

00:14:59.660 I think, in August of 2020? And what did you see specifically from Deborah Birx?

00:15:05.640 Sure. What I saw was shocking. And I think, since I'm the only one who's willing to say the truth

00:15:12.060 about what actually happened in the task force, I think it's critical for people to read this,

00:15:17.860 because I go through the specifics, but I was shocked, because A, I was naive. I was asked by the

00:15:24.920 president by the White House to help in the biggest health care crisis in a century. I'm a health policy

00:15:31.060 expert working for more than 10 years full time in that after finishing a 25-year history in academic

00:15:38.020 medicine. And the behavior that I saw when I entered the task force discussions, as you said, in the early

00:15:47.180 August of 2020, was shockingly opposite that of the scientific process of exchanging in a debate

00:15:55.640 about the actual data, about being sophisticated. I walked in, I was the only one that walked into

00:16:02.700 these meetings. When I was asked a question, I was prepared and cited the literature. I had 15,

00:16:09.500 20 different publications from the World Scientific Journals in my hand. I went through and critiqued those

00:16:16.480 studies. I went through and said what studies were not reliable, because the study design was flawed,

00:16:21.560 and therefore the conclusions were not valid. And what I saw was the opposite. What I saw were

00:16:28.600 bureaucrats. Fauci and Birx were in their bureaucratic positions and government positions for 35, 40 years.

00:16:37.500 The way you survive in that sort of position is not because you're politically neutral and some kind of

00:16:43.360 scientific expert. It's because you're politically savvy. You have, you know, made friends in the

00:16:49.000 health agencies, made friends in the media. They personally had friends in the media and would

00:16:54.240 refer to the media by first names and then run to the media and distort and have their views

00:16:59.800 sort of, they would try to, basically what I saw was when I presented the data, I was met with either

00:17:08.580 science, I mean, either silence, not science, silence, or accusations that I was, quote, an outlier.

00:17:17.360 Never once did Fauci, Birx, or Redfield bring in a scientific publication from a journal. Never once

00:17:25.300 was there a critique of any of the published literature. Never once, in fact, did those three

00:17:31.920 disagree with each other. Never, never once. That's unheard of in science in an evolving situation.

00:17:39.720 And what's more, I brought in experts that were actually doing the research. Remember,

00:17:44.640 these people were sequestered in their government bureaucrat positions. I was an outsider, but I also

00:17:50.360 brought in, I thought, okay, what the president needs to hear are answers to his questions from the

00:17:55.360 people doing the research. So I assembled a group of scientists from the best institutions in the

00:18:01.020 country who were doing the research on the pandemic, from UCLA, Tufts University, Harvard, Stanford,

00:18:07.360 and they came in and met with the president. They came in and met with the vice president.

00:18:12.540 Deborah Birx refused to attend the meeting, even though the meeting was scheduled specifically

00:18:16.980 so she could attend. At the last second, she pulled out for personal reasons, not because she

00:18:23.560 had a scheduling conflict, and then went to the media and the House of Representatives and said there

00:18:29.280 was, quote, parallel stream of information coming to the president that didn't go through her.

00:18:33.700 Well, that's because she couldn't stand up, apparently, to the scientific process, which is

00:18:39.060 talking to the people doing the research, debating, defending what your position is, learning from

00:18:45.700 them. That's the role of an advisor. It's not to be a filter. It's not to have people cover your behind

00:18:52.720 so that you maintain your status. And then what we saw really unconscionably revealed later,

00:18:58.600 if I can go on, was we saw, A, Dr. Birx told the media that she, and I didn't know this at the time,

00:19:06.660 she came forward to the media and said there was a pact between she, herself, Dr. Fauci,

00:19:13.980 and Dr. Redfield that if any of them were removed by President Trump, they would all resign.

00:19:18.820 Is that the behavior of people that are trying to help the country? Is that the behavior of people

00:19:23.820 who are confident in what they know? Is that the behavior of expert scientists? Or is that the

00:19:29.460 behavior of politically motivated, sort of ego-driven bureaucrats? I'll let people answer

00:19:35.520 that question. I mean, this is, second thing we saw that was revealed in these FOIA requests of emails

00:19:42.920 was there was an active effort by another unconscionable bureaucrat named Francis Collins,

00:19:50.760 who was the head of the NIH, who shamefully ended his career by colluding with the media,

00:19:57.280 with Dr. Fauci. These are emails I wasn't aware of when I was in the White House,

00:20:01.880 trying to, quote, take down the scientists who opposed their views, including myself,

00:20:07.400 by manipulating stories in the media. This kind of behavior was really a heinous abuse of the public

00:20:14.880 trust. We can never let this sort of incompetent, politically-driven bureaucrat be given the public

00:20:22.340 trust as if they are the real experts. Yeah. You know, it's hard for me to imagine that this is

00:20:29.780 really about incompetence. I know we don't want to impugn anyone's motives, and you want to attribute

00:20:34.760 to ignorance or incompetence what, you know, you don't want to attribute to malice, and I understand

00:20:42.240 that. But it's very difficult because even if Deborah Birx and Francis Collins and Anthony Fauci

00:20:49.880 are bureaucrats, they do have scientific backgrounds. It's not like the scientific method is foreign to

00:20:56.000 them. They know what science looks like. They know what scientific studies are. And yet, when it comes to

00:21:01.140 some of the most consequential policies that were put in place based on their recommendations,

00:21:06.060 they seem to not care about the science at all. And I just want to read this quote from an article

00:21:10.440 about you and your book from City Journal. It says this, in one of Atlas's first meetings with Deborah

00:21:16.300 Birx, he asked her what she considered the strongest scientific evidence for the efficacy of masks against

00:21:21.040 COVID. She cited a report published by the CDC about a hair salon in Missouri where two stylists

00:21:26.560 infected with COVID had worn masks that supposedly prevented the virus from infecting their customers.

00:21:33.440 So that was the greatest piece of evidence that she had for recommending masks, and I guess

00:21:39.600 Fauci's recommendation of masks, too. Did they ever present any more evidence to support their proposal

00:21:48.280 of people of universal masking? Well, I mean, it was embarrassing to listen to what they said. 0.98

00:21:57.120 You know, I mean, at times, one of them, Fauci, I related these stories in the book, Fauci held up,

00:22:04.380 or Redfield held up a single chart of a single state and said, I have proof that masks work. Mind you,

00:22:11.200 this is seven, eight months after they kept insisting it was proven, by the way. And he shows a chart

00:22:17.620 of a single state showing, oh, look, they put masks on by the governor's mandate, and the cases came

00:22:25.980 down. I mean, this is the most, almost infantile, naive assessment of cause versus correlation that

00:22:35.280 a scientist, there were dozens of other states that didn't have that all over the world. That's not

00:22:42.580 proof of anything. And in fact, you know, Fauci did the same thing by stating that two states, one had

00:22:48.460 masks, one didn't. I mean, you know, there was a body of literature proving that masks didn't work, published

00:22:53.700 by the CDC itself, itself in May 2020, for influenza virus. And that's relevant, because influenza is the

00:23:01.080 same size, roughly, as this virus. But this was already known that that widespread masking was not

00:23:06.720 effective. It was proven. It wasn't a question. These people didn't know the literature, but they

00:23:11.820 also, okay, so it's hard to put guesses on why people would say that. But I can tell you this,

00:23:18.720 even the non-scientists in the task force would finally pipe up and say, that's ridiculous,

00:23:24.880 that doesn't prove anything. Because at one point, you know, I eventually became frustrated with

00:23:30.560 the with what I thought was just incredibly low level statements made by people who should know

00:23:37.400 better. And so I was sort of burned out at some point along the way. And other non-scientists in the

00:23:43.880 room would say what they were saying was ludicrous. And you know, what is the motivation? Okay, number one,

00:23:49.980 it's gross incompetence. That is true. I don't I'm sorry, but people have this, this fantasy that these

00:23:56.480 people were experts, they are not experts, they didn't know what they were talking about. They didn't

00:24:00.820 know the literature at all. That's number one. Number two, you're saying they did not know the

00:24:07.300 literature, correct? They never, but they're not illiterate. So that's why I keep on just wanting to ask

00:24:13.480 why. And I know you can't answer that, because we don't know their motivations. But it's not like they

00:24:17.860 can't read. And so I just know why? Okay, well, okay, there's another part of this, which before I go into

00:24:25.920 the things you're sort of implying. There's another part, which is the way these bureaucrats

00:24:32.420 function is they ask other people to give them information in their own sort of entourage in

00:24:38.040 their own hierarchical setup. I read the papers myself. I sat there and read through and dissected

00:24:45.060 the papers myself. I made the phone calls myself to the people who did the research. These people would

00:24:50.460 send out emails saying, does anybody have any information to refute Scott Atlas? Wow. I mean,

00:24:56.460 this is like, you know, it really, you know, embarrassing to them. The second part is, you know,

00:25:04.520 these people had other motivations. There's a corruption in the science structure in the United

00:25:10.300 States. It's not necessarily purely financial. But there's a very unhealthy relationship between the

00:25:18.760 people who are in charge of all the funding of science. That is the NIH. They're in charge of

00:25:23.980 most of the funding of research. The people who are in the universities, the scientists,

00:25:28.480 they can't get promoted without getting NIH grants. Their careers are dead without NIH grants.

00:25:33.900 They can't do the research that's needed to get promoted. The people reviewing their research are

00:25:39.020 the editor journals that also review the funding applications with the NIH people for NIH grants.

00:25:46.220 And it's all this one sort of cartel that controls people's careers. So there's no mystery on why

00:25:53.740 an assistant professor at a university who's a top researcher would feel intimidated and reluctant

00:26:00.760 to criticize something that Dr. Fauci would say, for instance, if Fauci controls his career.

00:26:06.100 The third part of this corruption is there is an unhealthy relationship between these people's

00:26:11.300 individual incomes and things like pharma and consulting contracts and, you know, the vaccine

00:26:21.640 industry, etc. So and then the last part is these people are morally bankrupt. And that's a judgment

00:26:29.060 I'm making. And I'm happy to make it because I saw it with my own eyes. These are people as public

00:26:34.720 health leaders that number one, Dr. Fauci, I quoted in the book as saying the problem is people aren't

00:26:40.640 afraid enough. Okay, this is when the country was fearful beyond belief in August 2020. That's that's

00:26:49.120 unethical to want to make people afraid as a public health leader that that is beyond moral bankruptcy.

00:26:56.480 The second part of the moral bankruptcy is these people wanted to stop COVID-19 cases at all costs,

00:27:04.980 yet public health involves considering the impact of everything you're doing on the public health.

00:27:11.740 Okay, and instead, I was the only one, literally the only one in any meeting I went to whoever voiced the

00:27:19.580 concern about the impact of the lockdowns that they were advising, the missed medical care,

00:27:25.880 the lockdowns killed people, missed medical care, missed cancer screenings, you know, suicides,

00:27:33.180 opioid abuse, not to mention severe child abuse, all the impacts on children that the school closures

00:27:40.000 these are massive problems. The average person 18 to 24 in the United States had a 20, 52% of people

00:27:50.460 had an unwanted weight gain. In that age group, college age kids in the US during the lockdowns of 2020,

00:27:55.720 in that weight gain, averaged 28 pounds. That's a public health disaster, right?

00:28:01.280 That's not just two to five pounds. I mean, that's huge. That's a lot.

00:28:04.760 Right. It's not cosmetic.

00:28:05.700 Right.

00:28:06.320 Yeah, these people became obese. Okay, two thirds of cancer screenings or more didn't get done. We're

00:28:12.200 seeing articles today, actually, it was released, that something like 10 million cancer screenings didn't

00:28:17.820 get done. That's not because of the virus. Right.

00:28:20.500 It's because of the lockdowns. It's because of the advice. And I want to say this very clearly.

00:28:26.440 Dr. Birx and Dr. Fauci, they advised to do the lockdowns and they got what they wanted.

00:28:33.360 The lockdowns were implemented all over the country with rare exception. They failed to stop the spread

00:28:39.820 of the infection. They failed to stop people from dying. And those lockdowns killed people and

00:28:46.680 destroyed millions of families, particularly low income families and poor. So they got what they 0.85

00:28:53.500 wanted. Where's the first step, which is saying, admitting they were grossly wrong. We must have

00:29:01.600 honesty from public health leaders, or we will never trust them again. And when we cannot trust people

00:29:08.620 who are in charge, what do we have as a society? Yeah. And, you know, that's a hallmark of bureaucrats is

00:29:15.360 that they never have to apologize for the consequences of their bad ideas. So it was Deborah Birx who was

00:29:22.420 recommending to the governors, correct, to shut things down and to mandate masking. Is that right?

00:29:28.800 In writing, there was a one official source of the White House task force guidance to all the

00:29:37.980 governors. It was written by Dr. Birx. She visited dozens of states, personally met with the governors

00:29:44.380 and with the health of public health officials in the states, went on TV while she was doing those

00:29:48.980 visits, sometimes with the vice president, sometimes without. Officially, all the six months before I was

00:29:55.820 there, the months I was in the White House, three months, three and a half months, and after I left,

00:30:01.300 and those were implemented. I went and visited one single state during the time I was in the White

00:30:07.580 House. That was Florida. They did something different. They did not have the collateral damage

00:30:13.200 that the lockdowns occurred, and they did as well or better. They did better than most states by the

00:30:18.940 data in COVID. So, you know, Dr. Birx was the person in charge of the medical guidance, and she got what

00:30:27.740 she wanted. And you may have heard this bizarre Orwellian attempt to rewrite history by her going on

00:30:35.100 the media and testifying to the House, saying somehow blaming people who were opposed to what was

00:30:42.140 implemented, for the failure of what was implemented, and she recommended what was implemented.

00:30:55.340 And I know that we're supposed to kind of memory hole all of this, but I think back to the very

00:31:01.600 beginning in February of 2020, when it was actually Democrats who were saying, you know, this is not as

00:31:08.320 big of a deal, as Donald Trump is saying. You had Nancy Pelosi and Mayor Bill de Blasio saying,

00:31:13.220 come on down to Chinatown. It's fine. This is not a big deal. And then, you know, calling Donald Trump

00:31:18.960 xenophobic when he said that he wanted to try to bar travel from China. And then things shifted really

00:31:24.960 quickly to where it was actually Trump that was being accused of not caring about this enough, not

00:31:30.560 taking it seriously enough. And that was just one example of the kind of back and forth and the

00:31:35.440 flip-flopping from these bureaucrats, and I would say from the Democratic Party. But I also remember

00:31:40.920 when Anthony Fauci did an interview towards the beginning of all of this, really kind of condescending

00:31:47.340 the idea of wearing masks and saying that it was stupid to think that this could stop the spread of

00:31:53.840 a virus and people might actually have negative consequences from it because they could gain a 0.93

00:32:00.280 false sense of security from wearing the mask. And then somewhere in there, that so drastically

00:32:05.100 shifted to if you don't wear a mask, it's because you hate grandmothers and you all you want them all 0.99

00:32:10.180 to die. And it's because you're selfish. I'm a Christian. And so we heard a lot from Christians, 1.00

00:32:14.820 including Francis Collins, by the way, that we hate people. We don't love our neighbor and we don't

00:32:20.740 love Jesus if we're not wearing a mask. And what we were told is that the science changed. The science

00:32:25.460 changed behind that. The data changed to the point where we really had to start universal masking. I

00:32:31.200 think it was about in late summer of 2020. And I know, again, we don't know the why, but and that

00:32:38.400 was actually, I think, before you came to the White House to help out. But can you talk about specifically

00:32:43.640 masks? Like what was behind that? Why did the public opinion, why did Fauci's opinion change

00:32:49.840 about masks from the kind of belittlement about masks to the dogmatism that we saw from him and the media

00:32:57.260 about them? Yeah, I mean, you know, the mask, the whole mask scenario has a life of its own. And it's

00:33:08.300 really going to go down historically as one of the most embarrassing failures of critical thinking and

00:33:13.460 denial of fact during this entire era. And just to pick up on what you're saying before I answer the

00:33:20.560 question, that's continuing today because we're now seeing some of these people who are posing as

00:33:26.660 experts, particularly on CNN. There's somebody on there who masquerades as knowledgeable about public

00:33:33.400 health, who now says the science has changed. You don't need masks. There's been no change in the

00:33:39.520 science. Zero, zero change. They have been lying or denying fact or not knowing fact. It's one of

00:33:46.960 those three things. They either don't know the facts, they're denying the facts intentionally or

00:33:52.380 lying. There is no in between. The data showed before this pandemic even began, really toward the

00:34:01.240 beginning, all the clinical trials on masks showed that masks do not work to either protect the wearer

00:34:09.340 or stop the transmission in the general public sense. This is published by the CDC, published by

00:34:15.600 University of Oxford Center for Evidence-Based Medicine. And then what happened was we saw the

00:34:22.100 obvious evidence, which is that cases exploded with mask mandates in place, with mask usage in place.

00:34:31.200 And I've put this all in my book. But, you know, the studies came out then to corroborate that mask

00:34:38.720 population-based masking did not stop the spread of the infection, and it did not stop people from

00:34:46.700 getting the infection. The study was done, first of all, Denmark, published in, I think, November 2020, after

00:34:53.220 months of trying to get it published, and finally succeeding. They took 6,000 people. It's a randomized

00:34:58.400 clinical trial. It's the best type of clinical trial you can do. Half of them wore masks. Half

00:35:03.660 of them did not wear masks. There was no statistically significant difference between getting infected in

00:35:09.500 the two groups. None. By the way, that's not cloth masks. That's surgical masks. There's another

00:35:15.120 distortion being told to people. And of course, nobody has the time to go through all the studies

00:35:19.820 themselves. It's the surgical masks also that were proven to have no significant impact. The next study

00:35:27.600 was University of Louisville that was finally published in the spring of 2021 that proved that

00:35:33.720 by analyzing all the states that the mask mandates did not reduce the spread and the mask usage,

00:35:40.480 the mask usage, mask wearing, did not reduce the spread of the infection. This is proven. It's not

00:35:46.940 learned over the past few months. And so when we hear these people claim that masks work, you know,

00:35:54.800 we see even in Florida, you talk about masking in schools, which of course is the most preposterous,

00:36:00.140 let alone abusive thing that we've done to kids. Kids do not have a significant risk, healthy kids

00:36:08.480 from a serious illness of COVID. That's fact. That's proven all over the world. Yet we're going to

00:36:14.120 somehow double down and force them to wear masks. This is absurd. But when you look at the data in

00:36:20.760 Florida, we have the data, some schools had masks in place on all children. Other schools didn't do

00:36:27.820 the mask mandates and didn't have people wearing masks to kids in school. There was no significant

00:36:33.080 difference between the number of cases. So this is proven. It's not learned. And to hear them sort of

00:36:39.320 try to, okay, back out of and say, oh, oh, cloth masks don't work. The science has changed. They're lying.

00:36:45.420 They don't know what they're talking about. Or it's even worse than that. And there's some sort of

00:36:50.300 an intentional, you know, abuse of the public here in trying to control people. I don't know.

00:36:57.640 I have no idea what their motivation is. But we know this, the data is there that shows that widespread

00:37:05.560 population maps do not work, period. That's known. That's proven. It shouldn't even be discussed

00:37:12.280 anymore. Yeah. And the data is really accessible and available. This is not some secret where you

00:37:19.180 have to have some password in order to get into the, you know, crypt of scientific data that shows

00:37:25.260 that universal masking doesn't work. All you have to do is look at the states who have had mask mandates

00:37:30.460 and the states that have not had mask mandates and just look at their case rates. You can even look at

00:37:34.440 their hospitalization and death rates and there's no significant difference. Now, the thing that,

00:37:39.140 again, makes me wonder if there are some nefarious motivations behind this is if you look at the

00:37:44.020 two CDC studies that the CDC says proved that masking mask mandates at schools actually helped

00:37:50.420 stop the spread of COVID in Arizona and the state of Georgia, there are a lot of problems with that

00:37:55.280 study. And they did not include all the findings of the study in the summary. It was David Zwig who

00:38:01.260 wrote, I think, first for New York Magazine and then for The Atlantic, analyzing the CDC studies and

00:38:06.760 saying, no, these studies did not actually prove what the CDC said that they prove that masking has

00:38:12.380 any significant impact whatsoever, especially when it comes to schools. And it's just so hard for me

00:38:19.380 to understand, especially when it comes to masking kids as young as two years old, including on flights.

00:38:26.640 I mean, that's had a significant impact on personally on my family's life over the past couple of years.

00:38:32.460 And I'm sure it has for a lot of other parents too. Can you speak at all to, I don't know if you have

00:38:37.900 any insight into that specific decision, masking two-year-olds on airplanes and elsewhere?

00:38:45.440 Yeah. Well, it's, it's, it's bizarre. It's the epitome of the lack of logic in, in what's been done here

00:38:53.020 is actually the two scenarios we're talking about, schools and airplanes. Why do I say that? Because

00:39:01.300 these are the two lowest risk environments that there are. There has, I want to, I want to tell

00:39:09.660 people something that they probably are not aware of about airplanes. There has never been significant

00:39:15.340 outbreaks of COVID on airplanes. I'm talking about way before mandates, way before vaccines. There is no basis.

00:39:26.620 And in fact, there's a reason why, why cases were never really a problem on airplanes. That's because

00:39:31.880 they, the air inside an airplane goes through a hundred percent replacement approximately every two minutes

00:39:38.980 because of their filtration systems, et cetera. Airplane is the safest environment. There has never

00:39:45.960 been significant outbreaks of this virus on airplanes. And so when you, and the same thing, schools where

00:39:54.460 healthy kids have no significant risk really from a serious illness or death that's proven all over

00:40:00.860 the world. That's not arguable. Teachers have no higher risk than anyone else in the, in the world and

00:40:07.540 any other occupation. That's not arguable. And that comes before any vaccines, before any Omicron,

00:40:14.540 anything like that. So these are the two, if I had to design a job, I would want to be a flight 1.00

00:40:20.460 attendant. If I went to design a job that had no significant risk from COVID or low risk, I would

00:40:26.960 want to work on an airplane or be a teacher because these are the lowest. Yet we, what I'm trying to point

00:40:32.960 out here is that we as a society have doubled down, focused in fact, on regulating what you have to

00:40:40.340 do on the two lowest, uh, you know, environments, schools and airplanes. There is zero science, zero

00:40:49.620 to insist on having mask wearing in an airplane. It is beyond ludicrous. You know, the CDC, I want to get 0.74

00:40:57.900 back to this. You ask why the CDC has totally lost trust of the public. They have published the most

00:41:06.900 ludicrous, uh, in fact, really distortions of what the data is. And they are the only Western nation 0.83

00:41:17.200 health agency who has denied the basic known proven, uh, impact of immunity after recovering

00:41:26.580 from infection. This is very important. This is not just biology one-on-one. This goes back

00:41:33.200 centuries. It would have been a shock if you didn't have protection against serious illness from COVID

00:41:38.380 after recovering from the illness. And yet they denied it. And now, even when it's proven

00:41:43.540 that natural immunity, meaning protection after you've recovered from COVID is superior to a

00:41:50.900 vaccinated person's, uh, protection who's never had COVID, it's superior. It's factually proven 27 0.99

00:41:58.000 fold, less number of cases, one eighth, uh, fewer hospitalizations. It's longer lasting than the

00:42:04.680 protection from the vaccine. So we are the only country though, that doesn't count that as protection.

00:42:12.040 When you go to Europe and most of our pure nations, uh, they count having recovered from COVID as having

00:42:19.280 immunity, but it's actually better than vaccination. We don't even talk about our CDC. There is something

00:42:26.160 beyond really explicable that they are denying this. It's the, it's the biggest sort of denial of

00:42:34.400 science in modern history. And, uh, that kind of stuff, mandating vaccines for people who don't need

00:42:42.660 them, like those recovered from COVID or children who have no significant risk, healthy children from

00:42:49.320 this illness, yet we're supposed to inject an experimental drug in them. It's not just unethical.

00:42:54.780 It, it is the reason why Americans have lost trust in these agencies.

00:42:59.160 Yes. And have also lost trust in this idea of science because it seems like science has turned

00:43:05.500 into more scientism. It's turned into a kind of religion, a kind of ideology. I mean, you're

00:43:11.180 talking about the so-called scientists, not knowing the literature and not even feeling any shame over

00:43:17.860 not knowing the literature or not having any scientific data to support their proposed policies.

00:43:25.540 And I think we are the only country in the world, maybe Canada, who is still masking two-year-olds.

00:43:33.500 Not even the WHO recommends that. Our peer countries, as you mentioned, have taken other strategies to

00:43:39.020 combat COVID. And one of those strategies has not been, for the most part, masking children, especially

00:43:44.300 young children. It's very hard for me, and I'm not going to try to explore this question anymore because

00:43:49.140 we'll probably, we'll maybe never know. It's very hard for me to understand the why behind that decision.

00:43:55.100 I think politics are at play. Who knows whatever nefarious, prideful, selfish reasons are also at

00:44:01.340 play here. But the masking of children, the masking of two-year-olds, the forcing of virtual learning,

00:44:07.480 I guess probably pushed by the teachers unions. I don't even know if we can ever quantify the long-term

00:44:14.640 consequences of all of this. And you can comment on, if you want to comment on that, you can. I do have

00:44:21.080 another follow-up question. Do you have any thoughts on what I just said?

00:44:25.880 Well, I would like to underscore what your basic point is, which is that there has been

00:44:30.740 really a heinous, sinful abuse of our children by the United States of America, by the leadership in 0.94

00:44:39.520 government, by our teachers, by our university leaders, who are applying not just pseudoscience,

00:44:48.740 not just stuff against all the data, because healthy children have an extraordinarily low risk

00:44:54.680 of serious illness from COVID, to inject an experiment, to require vaccination of our college

00:45:01.100 students. I don't understand how any parent could accept that when their child has extremely low

00:45:09.840 risk from the illness, when the drugs, the vaccines are experimental, because it takes five years or more

00:45:15.460 to get real safety data. When we have known side effects in that very age group of college-age people,

00:45:22.880 I'm not sure what parents are thinking at this point to subject their kids to that,

00:45:29.940 and not to mention the elementary schools, but to mask kids. You know, one, the isolation,

00:45:35.840 the lock, there's so many things to say. You know, one out of four college-age kids in the United

00:45:40.560 States thought of killing himself in June of 2020 from the isolation. Okay, these are serious. There's

00:45:46.640 been a tripling of self-harm visits to doctors in teenagers. That means that these are teenagers in the

00:45:54.240 U.S. putting cigarettes out on their skin, cutting their wrists. That's from the isolation. That's not

00:46:00.900 from the virus. That's from the lockdowns. The weight gain I mentioned, we have a skyrocketing

00:46:06.760 depression, anxiety disorder. You know, it goes on and on. We had a significant rise, 50% increase,

00:46:16.680 I think, in teenage girls committing suicide from the isolation. It's not the virus. It's the lockdown.

00:46:23.820 These are man-made policies. And now we have people like Dr. Fauci talking about injecting

00:46:32.680 kids under five with this vaccine. This is surreal. Yeah. This kind of discussion,

00:46:41.000 it is immoral and unethical for anyone to mandate, force, or even administer a vaccine

00:46:49.400 for COVID to a healthy young child. It is frankly inexcusable. I mean, I don't, I'm wondering where

00:46:58.800 are the ethicists that are supposed to sit in on these institutional review boards to even do these

00:47:03.700 clinical trials? Where, where are the bioethicists? Where are the, uh, where are the thinking? Where

00:47:10.200 are simply the, the ethical doctors in this equation? Are they that, uh, thoughtless? Are they,

00:47:18.840 are they just followers? Are they, are they, I don't, it's inexplicable. I understand why parents

00:47:25.680 would go along with it because they keep hearing this over and over again, that it's important,

00:47:29.720 but that's against the facts. And it's time that we stopped saying, okay, oh, we excuse it for fear.

00:47:35.560 No, I don't excuse anybody anymore out of fear. I'm sorry. But after two years, you ought to be a

00:47:41.840 thinking adult. We have a social contract as human beings to protect our children. Okay. So, uh, that is

00:47:49.900 broken right now in the United States. Yep. We're actually sacrificing the wellbeing of children in order

00:47:56.060 to protect. And I use that in scare quotes, um, older citizens. And that's actually the inverse of 0.99

00:48:03.220 what you're supposed to do. I had, uh, Brett Weinstein on this podcast and he was talking

00:48:09.100 about, we were talking about the why that you could attribute all of this to incompetence. If maybe,

00:48:13.740 you know, the people in charge were just kind of making mistakes here and there, they missed the

00:48:18.120 mark a little bit. But when you are actually seeing, um, these public health bureaucrats suggest

00:48:25.340 the exact opposite of what we should be doing, if we wanted our population to be healthy and whole,

00:48:32.720 then you start to get into the questions that we've explored today. Okay. What are the true

00:48:38.360 motivations behind this? Um, and a question that I have for you as someone who I voted for Donald Trump,

00:48:45.420 I recently interviewed Donald Trump about a lot of the successes that he had. I'm really disappointed

00:48:50.680 that, I mean, he had people like you there. So he knew the wisdom. He knew the data because you were

00:48:56.400 working really hard to present that to him and to Mike Pence, who was ahead of the COVID task force.

00:49:02.020 Why? Why was Deborah Birx allowed to stay on? Why is Anthony Fauci still there? Did they not care?

00:49:09.260 Did they not care that they were pushing policies that were so destructive for the United States?

00:49:13.020 Why didn't he fire these people? That that's a question that I I've wondered many times. In fact,

00:49:20.620 um, you know, we, we all know the reality. First of all, let me say this. The president,

00:49:27.720 President Trump repeatedly said the lockdowns are destructive. We must open schools. We must open

00:49:34.860 businesses and do everything. I'm sorry to interrupt you, but I just want to say he also threw Brian

00:49:40.160 Kemp, the governor of Georgia under the bus when Brian Kemp tried to open the state back up. And so

00:49:45.560 it I don't know if he was really as strong as he should have. No, I'm not. I yeah, but I didn't

00:49:51.280 finish what I was going to say was was really the following, which is that I heard several times in

00:49:58.040 the time I was in the White House, not from the president or the vice president, but from people

00:50:02.480 high up that were the political advisors of them, Scott, don't rock the boat. Stop talking.

00:50:11.780 Uh, there's an election coming up. And so, uh, you know, politicians are our politicians. And I think

00:50:20.560 that's saying that actually is a criticism. It's not just stating a fact. Uh, I was nauseated at what I

00:50:27.880 saw. People were dying. Okay. This is not a game. It's not about getting elected. It's not about

00:50:34.520 getting reelected. People were dying from the policies that were implemented and advised by

00:50:43.800 Birx and Fauci. People were killed and they kept dying. And, uh, in fact, that's the reason I said I

00:50:52.780 would help. I wasn't in a political position. I, uh, uh, you know, I was shocked that I was accused

00:50:58.260 of being in a political position. Uh, I went because the country's in disarray. The policies

00:51:04.760 were implemented that were not stopping people from dying period. Uh, and they were against the

00:51:09.480 science, uh, that we knew then not, not had to learn. We knew it then. So, uh, I view this as a moral

00:51:17.620 failing of our politicians. And again, you know, I hate to be, uh, you know, I'm not a perfect person,

00:51:24.360 but, uh, some of this stuff supersedes any kind of political concern. These people should have been

00:51:32.240 fired within weeks of them starting because they were grossly wrong. It was, again, I started working

00:51:40.480 on the pandemic in March of 2020, uh, doing my own research, speaking out because what was implemented

00:51:47.820 by the white house task force advice by the governors throughout the country was grossly wrong.

00:51:54.580 People were being killed and, uh, it wasn't stopped and it's not even stopped today. I mean,

00:52:02.260 it is shocking to see Dr. Fauci named to be the main person in charge of the task, uh, of

00:52:10.460 the COVID operation by president Biden. Uh, I just, uh, it's inexplicable. Yeah, it really is.

00:52:18.120 And we could explore the motivations and the why all day. Trump actually did admit in a recent

00:52:22.740 interview that if he had fired Fauci, the left would have gone crazy. But as you point out,

00:52:27.900 we're not talking politics primarily. We're not talking about elections. We're talking about

00:52:32.060 people's lives. And because of the misguided guidance of these bureaucrats, I mean, people's

00:52:37.920 lives and livelihoods were ruined and some of them taken. I mean, this is really consequential

00:52:44.180 stuff. Um, my last question.

00:52:46.580 Now can I, if I can interrupt one thing briefly, which is we can't forget the governors implemented

00:52:53.540 what they wanted. Okay. We have a federalist system. The governors, uh, insisted on having their

00:53:00.000 own policies and they implemented them. And how do we know they had a choice of what to do? Because

00:53:05.400 DeSantis didn't do that. Christy Noem didn't do that. There were governors that had the clear

00:53:11.220 thinking and the courage to say, no, what Fauci and Birx are advising is wrong. And when we look at

00:53:18.980 the data, it is proven that the lockdowns failed. It is proven, you know, people have been living

00:53:24.460 normally in Florida for almost two years. Does anyone notice this? Florida did better than most

00:53:30.040 states. Florida did better than an analogous state, which is my state of California without any of the

00:53:37.220 massive harms of the school closures and the collateral damage of the lockdowns on people's

00:53:42.640 lives. So the governors cannot just simply say, Oh, that's what Fauci and Birx recommended. That is not

00:53:49.560 what they're elected to do. The governors are elected to lead. They made a conscious decision to do

00:53:55.380 what they did. And now that we see some of them lifting things like mask mandates, pretending that

00:54:00.640 the science has changed. In my view, I'm very cynical about their motivation. They view the public

00:54:06.140 as being tired of mask mandates. They claim the science. They don't know what they're talking about

00:54:11.400 because the science has not changed. So it's the governors that must be held accountable here.

00:54:17.520 And I hope voters hold these governors accountable.

00:54:19.380 Yeah. And that really answers my last question. We've seen a lot of people in the media change

00:54:25.620 their tune. And these Democratic politicians saying, Oh, there's no need for the mandates 0.80

00:54:29.860 anymore. We've actually seen countries around the world roll back some of these mandates and

00:54:36.400 restrictions. I'm cynical. It's hard for me to believe that they're doing this simply because

00:54:42.480 they're finally following the science. And I guess your guess is that they're doing this because

00:54:50.000 polling looks bad. And that's basically it.

00:54:54.460 Purely. I'm 100% sure of that. But on the other hand, the only way that we as citizens

00:55:01.160 can hold the people in charge accountable is by their political accountability. Okay. Unless we're

00:55:11.140 going to start putting these governors in jail for, for instance, ordering COVID infected people back

00:55:17.200 in the nursing homes and thereby killing people. I don't see that as happening that they're going to

00:55:21.700 go to jail for that. But I do think that we need to be very vocal. In fact, I will say this. I was

00:55:29.640 stunned by the power of the U.S. government to just stop everything, to confine people to their homes,

00:55:35.180 kick them out of public spaces like parks and beaches, closed schools and businesses. But I was even

00:55:40.680 more shocked at the acquiescence of a very weak American public. We see protests going on for the

00:55:48.200 last year and a half to two years all over the world, not in the United States. People protested the

00:55:54.200 lockdowns. Think about this. We are the country that is founded on freedom, individual liberty.

00:56:02.880 Where was everybody here? Where were these tough New Yorkers? I grew up in Chicago. Where were these

00:56:07.640 tough Chicagoans? When they were confined to their homes and their children were being destroyed by

00:56:12.860 school closures that were completely anti-scientific data? They were acquiescent. Americans have been

00:56:20.760 very, very weak, in my view. And other countries, not so much. You see Spain, Italy, Germany, Austria,

00:56:30.120 you know, all over Western Europe, even in places like Australia, where they've had very draconian

00:56:35.420 things. Even in Canada, we see it now. Why are we not leading anymore for freedom? I wonder that.

00:56:42.480 And I think it's very disheartening. In fact, it's very frightening. And I happen to live in the state,

00:56:49.180 which is the most off the rails of all, California. We have a governor who doesn't know that one plus one

00:56:55.680 equal two about COVID. And he's been granted this authority. And it's just shocking to me to see how weak

00:57:02.560 Americans have been. I'm sorry to say it that way. But I think at some point, you know, you have to 0.75

00:57:10.260 think clearly and, you know, take control of your own lives.

00:57:15.460 Well, you're showing courage, and I appreciate that. Courage is contagious. So perhaps your bravery

00:57:23.680 and your persistence in coming out and talking about the truth behind this will create an even

00:57:30.980 greater contagion. And that is one not of COVID, but of courage. That's what I hope anyway. So I hope

00:57:37.100 everyone goes out and gets your book, A Plague Upon Our House. Thank you so much for taking the time

00:57:41.000 to talk to us today. Thanks for having me.

00:57:42.880 Okay, guys, hope you enjoyed that conversation. We've got a bonus episode tomorrow on Friday. It's

00:57:50.440 going to be a really fun episode. I just didn't have time this week to get in everything that I

00:57:55.580 wanted to talk about. And so we will do an episode tomorrow. So make sure you tune into that tomorrow

00:58:02.780 afternoon. I will see you guys then.

Relatable with Allie Beth Stuckey - February 10, 2022

Ep 562 ｜ Why Didn’t Trump Fire Dr. Fauci？｜ Guest： Dr. Scott Atlas

Episode Stats

Summary

Transcript

Relatable with Allie Beth Stuckey - February 10, 2022

Ep 562 ｜ Why Didn’t Trump Fire Dr. Fauci？ ｜ Guest： Dr. Scott Atlas

Episode Stats

Summary

Transcript

Ep 562 ｜ Why Didn’t Trump Fire Dr. Fauci？｜ Guest： Dr. Scott Atlas