Relatable with Allie Beth Stuckey - Ep 565 ｜ The Women Saving Women's Sports ｜ Guest： Ainsley Erzen

00:00:00.000 Hey guys, welcome to Relatable. Happy Wednesday. This episode is brought to you by our friends

00:00:05.440 at Good Ranchers, American meat delivered, craft beef, better than organic chicken shipped

00:00:11.400 right to your front door. Go to GoodRanchers.com slash Allie. All right, guys, today we are

00:00:27.580 talking about women's sports. We are talking about Leah Thomas, the so-called transgender swimmer

00:00:37.220 who, surprise, surprise, is dominating collegiate women's swimming. We're going to talk about

00:00:44.140 this developing story, why Leah Thomas is actually able officially to compete. There was an open

00:00:52.300 letter that was written by other swimmers anonymously at the University of Pennsylvania

00:00:58.300 saying it is not fair for this man to compete against women. So we'll get into that and why

00:01:05.900 ultimately it was decided that Leah Thomas is allowed to compete against these female swimmers. 1.00

00:01:13.760 We will also be talking to a female athlete who will be competing in track at the University of

00:01:20.640 Arkansas next year. She wrote this very compelling and articulate article for the Des Moines Register

00:01:27.820 talking about the injustice, quite frankly, of men being able to compete against women. She is a 0.99

00:01:35.980 wonderful advocate for fairness in her sport and it takes a whole lot of bravery to be a young person

00:01:42.680 today and to speak out about this issue on the unpopular side about this issue of this issue. She is a

00:01:49.580 Christian, so we'll talk about how her faith in God really gave her the strength and the courage to

00:01:54.960 speak out about this. But first, let's talk about this Leah Thomas. And to start off, those of you who

00:02:02.220 listen to this podcast and who know me and who know my views on this, this is going to be a little bit

00:02:10.380 repetitive for you. But for those of you who may be new, I do not use incorrect pronouns to describe

00:02:18.860 someone. So that means that I am not going to say that a man is a woman. Biology is not bigotry.

00:02:25.940 Therefore, calling a man a he is not bigoted. It's not mean. It's not lacking empathy or compassion.

00:02:33.200 Because I am wedded to reality and because I feel an obligation and responsibility to articulate reality,

00:02:41.220 I am not going to call Leah Thomas she. That is not because I hate him. That is not because I am

00:02:50.100 purposely trying to be inflammatory or rude. It is because I feel an obligation to the truth. Now,

00:02:59.000 I will call previously Will Thomas Leah Thomas because someone changing their name, you can change

00:03:06.940 your name to anything you want to. And I'll call you that. If you want to call yourself, you know,

00:03:12.660 German Shepherd Dog, I will call you German Shepherd Dog. If that is your new name, that's fine. But I am

00:03:18.780 not going to actually say that you are a dog. You are a human being. Leah Thomas is a man. So I am going

00:03:26.540 to use he him pronouns because I care about reality. And I reject this idea that gender identity,

00:03:33.780 so-called, and biology are separate categories. They're simply not. Not biblically, but also not

00:03:42.720 scientifically. We have talked many times. We'll link the episode in the description of this episode

00:03:48.540 that the so-called, and I'm going to use that phrase a lot today because, again, I'm using the language

00:03:56.140 that we are used to in this conversation, but that actually isn't accurate. The so-called science of

00:04:05.720 gender identity started in the 1960s. Its philosophical legacy is really hundreds of years old, and we've

00:04:13.820 talked about that before. But it is not based in biology. It is not based in any actual science. It is based

00:04:21.300 on junk psychology, and it's damaging people, not just the people who are pushed into gender 0.95

00:04:27.540 transition or pushed into damaging surgeries, but also it is hurting women and girls whose spaces and 0.72

00:04:37.860 whose athletic competitive events are now being infiltrated by men and boys that they will never

00:04:45.060 be able to fairly compete against because gender identities don't compete in sports. Bodies do. 1.00

00:04:52.600 And boys and girls, men and women's bodies are fundamentally different. We're very similar,

00:04:58.820 but we're fundamentally different. I will remind you, again, we've talked about this, about the Duke

00:05:03.860 University study that came out a couple years ago. We've cited it on this show, and we will link it again

00:05:09.760 so you can read it for yourself. You do not have to take my word for it. It shows that the fastest

00:05:14.780 times of the best, fastest female track stars in the world are beat thousands of times,

00:05:21.800 are dominated thousands of times by non-elite high school boys every year. This is a summary

00:05:29.040 of the study, which again, you should read in depth on your own. Quote, if you know sport,

00:05:34.840 you know this beyond a reasonable doubt. There is an average of 10 to 12 percent performance gap

00:05:41.260 between elite males and elite females. The gap is smaller between elite females and non-elite males,

00:05:47.600 but it is still insurmountable, and that is ultimately what matters. So they talk about how

00:05:55.020 an Olympic female track star that the times, the record times that she has is routinely beaten,

00:06:07.960 dominated by high school non-elite boys in track. That's pretty incredible. That tells you something

00:06:18.120 about the fundamental differences between male and female. The study goes on,

00:06:22.600 this differential is not the result of boys and men having a male identity,

00:06:27.300 more resources, better training, or superior discipline. It is because they have an androgynized 1.00

00:06:32.640 body. The results make clear that sex determines win share. Female athletes, here defined as athletes

00:06:39.580 with ovaries instead of testes and testosterone levels capable of being produced by the female 1.00

00:06:44.540 non-androgenized body, are not competitive for the win against males. This is Duke University,

00:06:49.840 okay? This is not like AliStuckyNarratives.com, okay? Here defined, are not competitive for the win

00:06:57.740 against males. Here defined as athletes with testes and T-levels in the male range. The lowest end of

00:07:03.460 the male range is three times higher than the highest end of the female range, consistent with

00:07:08.240 females' far lower T-levels. The female range is also very narrow, while the male range is broad. 0.81

00:07:15.540 Now, maybe you're saying, okay, but if a transgender athlete goes on hormone therapy, so, you know,

00:07:24.280 they're on hormone therapy, and so their testosterone levels are lower, doesn't that just even the playing

00:07:28.980 field? That means that a man who decides to be on, you know, estrogen hormone therapy for several

00:07:35.800 years, that they'll just be the same as any woman. No, no, no. That's not how it works. If you have to, 0.98

00:07:41.040 first of all, boys are born with far more testosterone than girls. The differences between

00:07:45.600 male and female happen in the womb. Then they lower, and boys and girls, when they're young, 0.93

00:07:51.920 they have similar, not the same, but they have a similar range of testosterone levels. And then

00:07:56.980 puberty hits. And then that's when things change very drastically for boys. They start producing a

00:08:04.240 lot more testosterone that women never produce. That is what makes their bones more dense. That's 1.00

00:08:10.380 what gives them anaerobic, higher anaerobic and aerobic capacity. That's what gives them greater muscle

00:08:15.380 mass. Also, their brains work differently. And so, if a man goes through puberty, then that means

00:08:21.820 that he will never, no matter what surgery that he has, no matter what hormone therapy that he has

00:08:28.540 put on, that he has put on, he will never, ever be able to fairly compete against a woman because his 0.77

00:08:35.420 body has been changed irreversibly, irrevocably when he went through puberty. So, it doesn't matter

00:08:43.120 that this person, Will Thomas, has been on some kind of hormone treatment. I mean, if you've seen

00:08:47.440 pictures, you can see his shoulders, you can see his muscle mass, you know that this is not a woman. 0.97

00:08:53.540 And if you're trying to convince yourself in your mind that he is a woman, just stop. Stop. Stop

00:08:59.420 trying to buy into the lunacy. You will make yourself absolutely crazy. This is a man competing 0.99

00:09:04.200 against women. He went through puberty as a man. Therefore, it doesn't matter how much estrogen he

00:09:09.200 puts into his body. He will always be a man and it will never be fair for him to compete against a

00:09:15.560 woman. You want to know what shows this so hilariously in this clown world that we are living in? 0.84

00:09:21.560 He was number 462 in men's swimming when he was competing as Will Thomas. Now that he is Leah Thomas,

00:09:30.480 he is ranked number one in women's swimming. You think that's just a coinkydink? You think that just 1.00

00:09:35.460 happened that all of a sudden he just, oh, he just got so much better? No, it's because he is

00:09:42.160 competing against women and women are weaker. We don't have the same lung capacity. We have smaller 0.98

00:09:47.680 hearts. We have smaller muscle mass in general. Our bones are less dense. We just can't do it.

00:09:52.980 That does not mean that female athletes aren't amazing and awesome. Of course they are. They 1.00

00:09:58.060 can't compete against men. We've known this for literally all of human history, guys. For all of

00:10:05.000 human history. It's insane. It's insane. It's insane. And you don't have to be insane. Okay? You have a

00:10:10.280 choice today, people. You have a choice to be sane. That does not mean that you have to be mean

00:10:15.000 to people who believe that they're transgender or who identify as transgender. This is not me 0.97

00:10:21.600 lacking compassion for people who are confused about their gender. This is me having an abundance

00:10:28.020 of compassion, teeming with compassion for the people that this affects. This negatively affects

00:10:34.500 female athletes. People who are unable to compete fairly despite the fact that they have worked so 1.00

00:10:41.840 hard in their events and in their sport. Let me read you a little bit more about what has gone on

00:10:53.900 because you'll hear in the media that, well, you know, all of Leah Thomas' teammates are totally

00:11:01.520 supportive of him. Of course, the media says her are totally supportive. Like there's no, there's no

00:11:06.300 reason what's, why are people freaking out about this? Oh, it's just those white evangelical Trump

00:11:10.720 supporters again. All female athletes are totally happy with this. It's all about inclusivity. It's 1.00

00:11:17.100 all about just being happy. And we're just going to forget that there are any differences between men

00:11:21.460 and women. Well, that's not true. There was this open letter signed by 16 pin swimmers that say that

00:11:27.800 Leah Thomas should be barred from competition. And they were asking the NCAA to help them out with 1.00

00:11:34.260 this. So this is from Swimming World. Leah Thomas seated first in three events at this week's Ivy

00:11:45.960 League championships. Number two in fourth event. I would love to see how he will come in number two.

00:11:55.080 That would be, that would be quite incredible. Of course, that could happen. Of course, that's just

00:12:01.800 because a man who identifies as woman might lose an event does not mean that this is all of a sudden

00:12:08.640 fair. Like you'll remember the Laurel Hubbard. I think I got kicked off Twitter for saying that

00:12:16.420 Laurel Hubbard is a man. But I think he competed in weightlifting for the Olympics over the summer and

00:12:27.080 he was unable to like complete the event. And so everyone was like, oh, this means that it's great

00:12:33.100 for men to compete against women. Well, I can give you a thousand other examples of it going the other 0.99

00:12:39.700 way. Um, and so no, this is just a matter of reality. Even if Leah Thomas started losing all

00:12:47.480 of his races, it doesn't actually make it fair. He still has a biological advantage over other women. 0.99

00:12:55.440 So it's just, it doesn't, it really doesn't matter what the outcomes are. Although the outcomes are

00:13:00.400 very predictable and expected. It's still the principle of there being very significant differences

00:13:06.220 here. And the ACLU would like to say, oh, you know, there are people trying to make sure that

00:13:12.040 trans kids, that trans people can't play sports. That's not true at all. I don't think they shouldn't

00:13:17.080 be able to play sports. I think that they should be able to play sports against their sex because

00:13:21.500 again, bodies compete. Gender identities do not. So this is according to the New York Post about

00:13:27.140 the 16 swimmers that said, hey, yo, this is not fair. 16 pin swimmers say Leah Thomas should be barred 0.99

00:13:34.120 from competition. Unfortunately, the New York Post, as well as some other, um, outlets,

00:13:40.780 including Fox news. And I believe I saw on national review and some other outlets, they do

00:13:46.780 use she, her pronouns for men. Um, so, you know, so much for the culture war, but New York times

00:13:53.540 says that 16 members of the UPenn women's swimming team sent a letter anonymously, uh, to the school

00:14:00.060 and to Ivy league officials last Thursday. Well, this is, um, I think a couple of weeks ago now,

00:14:04.660 but, uh, to the school and to Ivy league officials last Thursday, asking them to ban Leah from the

00:14:10.720 upcoming NCAA championships. Here is part of what the letter says. And of course they're using she,

00:14:16.880 her pronouns too. And I will read that. We fully support Leah Thomas in her decision to affirm her

00:14:21.600 gender identity and to transition from a man to a woman. I almost think though, that's like a little 0.77

00:14:26.500 tongue in cheek, because if you really follow like the transgender activism, you're not even allowed 1.00

00:14:32.320 to say that you're not allowed to say transgender from, or transition from a man to a woman. You have 0.51

00:14:38.340 to say ridiculous language, like assigned male at, at birth. And now they're having gender confirming 0.92

00:14:45.700 therapy or gender affirming therapy or something like that. And so this ridiculous Orwellian idea is

00:14:51.360 that they've really always been a woman, even though they were, you know, born with a male

00:14:56.700 reproductive system, that that doesn't indicate what you actually are. What you actually are is 1.00

00:15:01.900 what you declare yourself to be, or what you say that you are, you know, when you're, uh, when you

00:15:08.140 have a certain feeling at a certain age or whatever it is. So I almost think them even saying transition

00:15:13.440 from a man to a woman is them trying to underscore that this is still a man, but they say

00:15:20.020 to transition from a man to a woman. Leah has every right to live her life authentically. However,

00:15:25.500 what also like, that's so ironic. Authentically, he is a man that is authentically, you can feel a

00:15:33.680 certain way. And you can even say that you feel a certain way. You can even ask people to respect

00:15:37.900 that you want to identify something that's other than your biology. That doesn't actually,

00:15:42.160 that still doesn't change your biology. And just because you are pretending to be something that

00:15:46.480 you're not does not mean that everyone else is obligated to pretend along with you.

00:15:49.580 Okay. So, however, we also recognize that when it comes to sports competition,

00:15:54.060 that the biology of sex is a separate issue from someone's gender identity. They're exactly correct. 1.00

00:15:59.200 Of course, I don't believe that gender identity and sex are separate, but that goes back to the

00:16:03.400 point that we have been making that bodies are competing. Biologically, Leah holds an unfair 1.00

00:16:07.840 advantage over competition in the women's categories, evidenced by her rankings that have balanced from

00:16:12.480 number 462 as a male to number one as a female. If she were to be eligible to compete against us, 1.00

00:16:18.260 she could now break pin IV and NCAA women's swimming records, feats she could have never done as a male

00:16:24.900 athlete. True. So, the letter was sent by Nancy Hogshead McCarr, a 1984 gold medalist in Olympic

00:16:32.760 swimming. Good for her. She's also a lawyer and chief executive of Champion Women, which is a women's

00:16:37.620 sports advocacy organization. The swimmer slash teammates remained anonymous as they claimed they were

00:16:43.700 told they would be removed from the team. Wow. Or that they would never get job offers if they spoke

00:16:50.520 out again. Spoke out again about Thomas being a part of women's competition. Again, I know other people

00:16:58.300 have made this point. This point has been made many times, but man, the patriarchy strikes again.

00:17:03.640 So, women who just want an even playing field, who just want to compete fairly, they can't even speak 1.00

00:17:12.700 up or they're being told by other men that they will be silenced, they will be kicked off the team,

00:17:20.040 and they won't be able to get hired in the future if they speak up for their own right to compete

00:17:25.080 fairly. And there are feminists who actually support this kind of thing. Now, to be fair, there are a lot 1.00

00:17:31.600 of people, a lot of conservatives that I hear, where are the feminists? Where are the feminists? 1.00

00:17:34.740 There's no feminists talking about that. That's not true. There are a lot of feminists and feminist 1.00

00:17:38.840 organizations who speak up about this. A lot of them, to be fair, are in the UK. Good for them.

00:17:44.260 But there are definitely, there are definitely, well, actually, Meghan Murphy is not even American. I was

00:17:49.180 going to say there are American feminists who also speak up about this, like Meghan Murphy, 0.97

00:17:53.000 whom we've had on this podcast, but she's actually Canadian. But there are, there are feminists who 1.00

00:17:59.160 speak up against this, even if I really disagree with a lot of the feminists who are speaking up 0.99

00:18:03.900 against this on a number of different, very important issues like abortion. I just want

00:18:09.240 to acknowledge that there are people who identify as feminists who are pushing back against the 0.62

00:18:13.480 madness that men can become women. So the article goes on to say, earlier last week, a group of

00:18:21.580 swimmers on the team released a statement in support of Thomas, which was in reaction to a different

00:18:26.960 teammate, telling Fox News that Thomas had a monumental advantage over her teammates and

00:18:33.020 competitors. And so there are swimmers on the team who are apparently saying, oh, no, like, we think it's

00:18:39.360 great. We think it's great that he's competing. They're saying she, of course. I mean, yeah, because

00:18:47.280 it also helps the University of Pennsylvania if they've got like this star, this star athlete.

00:18:53.920 So for those swimmers who did sign it, sign the open letter, pushing back against this, but to,

00:19:00.100 you know, fear their identities being, their identities being revealed and getting bullied

00:19:07.680 and all of that. I mean, if any of you listen to this podcast, know that I support you if that is

00:19:13.160 any consolation at all. And I know it can be really scary. I understand why you wanted to remain

00:19:19.160 anonymous. I wish you I wish you didn't have to, but I am proud of you for even covertly trying to

00:19:24.740 push back against this. Now, this is according to the Daily Mail. Ivy League says transgender

00:19:30.640 swimmer Leah Thomas will be eligible to compete in conference championship, but new rules leave her

00:19:35.180 participation in the NCAA tournament in doubt. So this article says Thomas University of Pennsylvania

00:19:44.220 Senior will be able to compete in the conference final scheduled for February 16th to 19th. So

00:19:49.480 obviously that's coming up at Harvard University and Ivy League official told Swimming World magazine

00:19:53.660 recent rule changes from the NCAA and USA swimming have thrown Thomas's ability to compete in the

00:19:59.820 NCAA championships into doubt. But the Ivy League confirmed that for this season, the new rules do not

00:20:04.980 apply to any meets prior to the NCAA tournament. So the new rules, the new guidelines that were revealed by

00:20:13.440 USA swimming say. So it gives a more stringent threshold for testosterone in women's swimming. 1.00

00:20:20.740 The new rule requires transgender swimmers competing in women's meets must show serum testosterone levels

00:20:26.060 of less than five nanomole per liter for a continuous period of 36 months. Since since Thomas began

00:20:32.280 transitioning less than three years ago, the change could disqualify her. This article says the new

00:20:37.840 guidelines did not mention Thomas by name, but were widely seen as making it harder for her to be

00:20:43.280 able to compete. So they're saying that now the Ivy League and the NCAA is saying, well, the rules don't

00:20:52.160 apply this year. So Leah Thomas can continue to compete. And then of course, since he has been so-called

00:21:02.500 transitioning for 33 months by next season, it will be past 36 months. And so, so they're trying to find a

00:21:09.920 way to get him to still be able to compete against women. And this is what the New York Times is also

00:21:16.080 saying. The NCAA on Friday cleared the way for the swimmer, Leah Thomas, a transgender woman. What does

00:21:21.660 that even mean? We don't know who has turned in the top times in the country and two events to compete

00:21:28.460 in the NCAA championships next month, saying that implementing new rules for testosterone testing in

00:21:33.280 the middle of the season would be unfair to transgender athletes. I love that we're talking 1.00

00:21:37.640 about unfairness, but only as it pertains to men, not the women that they are competing against.

00:21:44.960 Thomas is expected to compete next week. And so that's this week in the Ivy League championships in

00:21:49.920 Boston, where she, the New York Times says, will be the favorite in the 200 and 500 freestyle races in

00:21:57.400 which she has posted the best marks in the nation this season. Wow. Wow. That's shocking. So

00:22:04.800 apparently, um, it, it really doesn't matter. It really doesn't matter what other female swimmers 1.00

00:22:12.220 say. It really doesn't matter what biology says. This is ideologically politically driven. This is

00:22:19.740 what happens when superficial flimsy definitions of empathy. And I use that in air quotes, scare quotes,

00:22:27.400 uh, when that takes over rather than logic, rather than any kind of tethering to the truth,

00:22:34.760 rather than our understanding of reality and fairness and justice, this is unfairness. This is

00:22:42.920 injustice. This is insanity. And so for Christians who are called to be reasonable, who love the bodies 0.98

00:22:52.820 that God created, who loves the dichotomy of male and female. I mean, again, this is a Genesis 0.89

00:22:58.140 one issue for Christians. This is just like non-negotiable. This isn't confusing or complex

00:23:03.480 for the Christian. Maybe it is to people who adhere to a post modern post truth ideology. But for the

00:23:11.360 Christian, again, this is foundational to what it means to be a human. This is, this is rooted in the

00:23:19.120 creation order. This is rooted in Genesis one, which is reiterated throughout scripture, which is repeated

00:23:23.980 by Jesus himself in Matthew 19, that God made us male and female. There is no biblical category for

00:23:31.080 gender identity. And because I believe that we are called not to lie, the most loving thing to do

00:23:37.440 is to affirm the reality of male and female. Remember, as we've said many times, God is love. That's, 0.55

00:23:44.060 that's what we know. We know from scripture that God is love. So if he says something is true,

00:23:50.160 then it is loving of us to repeat it. We cannot out love God. We are not love. God is love.

00:23:57.040 We cannot out compassion him. So if he says something is true, then it is loving of us to

00:24:03.460 simply affirm and to repeat that it is loving of us. Even if the world calls it hate, even if the world

00:24:09.260 calls it bigotry to say that a man is a man and a woman is a woman for the sake of the protection of

00:24:15.160 women and girls, for the sake of fairness and competition for women and girls, for the sake of

00:24:20.960 the safety and security of women's only spaces. I'm talking about prisons. I'm talking about 1.00

00:24:26.520 bathrooms. I'm talking about locker rooms. I'm talking about women's abuse shelters for the sake 1.00

00:24:33.640 of their security. We have to acknowledge sex differences and to continue to separate in places

00:24:41.020 where it's relevant and competitions where it's relevant, men and women and boys and girls for

00:24:45.880 the sake of privacy. And if you want to say this isn't happening, that men are infiltrating these

00:24:51.500 spaces, it absolutely is. Men are infiltrating women's prisons and abuse shelters and locker rooms

00:24:58.140 and bathrooms. I mean, we hear of these instances happening on at least a monthly basis. Those are

00:25:05.160 just the incidents that we know of. So yes, this is happening. And I'm not saying that that

00:25:10.260 characterizes every person who identifies as transgender. I'm not saying that at all. But this 0.99

00:25:16.880 is an issue that will affect the more vulnerable, weaker sex, which is women. I know that in itself is 0.77

00:25:24.640 controversial to say, but it's simply reality. It's simply true. Christians have an obligation 0.99

00:25:30.240 to be so clear and so courageous in the truth because not only do we have biology that is urging us

00:25:36.500 to adhere to the reality of men and women, but we also have our faith. We also have the biblical

00:25:43.180 reality of male and female. We also have the God of the universe on our side. It'll far be it from us

00:25:49.980 to go along with the insanity of this culture when we have sanity and theology and biology on our side.

00:25:59.260 I know it can be scary to push back against this kind of thing when the bullies come out in full

00:26:05.140 force. But as we will see in the interview that you're about to hear, courage begets courage.

00:26:11.580 And we have to be the ones to stand up and share the arrows, especially for these young women who are 1.00

00:26:17.180 speaking out and saying, this is not fair for me to have worked as hard as I have to be an elite

00:26:22.860 athlete and to have it all taken from me because a man who has insurmountable advantages is taking the

00:26:31.340 records and the titles and the scholarships that I have fought so hard for. That's not fair. So we have

00:26:37.760 to be the ones on the front lines who are willing to stand up and say, you know what? You're right.

00:26:42.460 We have to share those arrows and say, that's not fair. And our guest today is doing just that.

00:26:48.880 And I know that her bravery is going to encourage you so much as well.

00:26:58.640 Ainsley, thank you so much for joining us. Can you tell everyone just a little bit

00:27:02.860 about who you are, what you do?

00:27:04.740 Yeah, so I'm a track runner and soccer player. Next year, I'm going to be going to the University

00:27:12.440 of Arkansas to continue doing both of those. That's really exciting. This summer, I ran the 800

00:27:19.080 meters at nationals in Oregon, and I won that and set a state record. So that's kind of what's been

00:27:26.240 going on in my life so far.

00:27:28.080 That's amazing. Congratulations. You're from Iowa going to the University of Arkansas. That's a great

00:27:34.660 school. And you wrote this opinion piece for the Des Moines Register talking about the biological

00:27:41.220 differences between men and women, especially as is relevant for female athletes. Talk a little bit

00:27:48.960 more about what you wrote and why you wrote it.

00:27:52.980 Yeah, so the Iowa Girls High School Athletic Union recently put out a statement in the Gazette saying

00:28:00.980 that they needed kind of advice and just direction on how to handle transgender athletes in women's

00:28:06.740 sports since it's an issue that has been becoming more and more popular. And for anyone who doesn't

00:28:11.700 know, we're one of the only states that has an athletic union specifically for girls. So the fact

00:28:17.880 that this is really their sole purpose and they're not doing their job was definitely something that

00:28:23.180 was really frustrating to me. It doesn't really make sense, to be completely honest.

00:28:27.260 And I think a lot of people in power who kind of have the opportunity to do something about this

00:28:32.960 and whose voices really matter really weren't saying anything. No other girls were really

00:28:38.180 stepping out to say anything. I mean, you look at UPenn, what's happening there with their swim team,

00:28:43.300 all the girls there are too scared to say anything. It's kind of just widespread fear on this issue,

00:28:48.480 I guess. And so I knew I had just a little bit of a platform through running, through social media.

00:28:54.620 So I just wanted to make sure I was doing everything I could to use my voice to speak out if no one

00:29:00.120 else was going to. Tell us a little bit about the work that goes into being an athlete at your

00:29:06.660 level, because I was not an athlete. That is just not a gift that God gave me. And so honestly,

00:29:13.840 I don't really know all of the time and the dedication and the sacrifice that goes in

00:29:18.700 to being an athlete that is good enough to compete at the collegiate level. So just tell us kind of

00:29:24.860 about what your routine has been since you really started running at this level.

00:29:30.420 Yeah, well, I train six days a week. A typical day for me, I usually have, you know, either weights

00:29:37.080 or some sort of like speed and agility practice before school in the morning. So waking up at like

00:29:41.820 530 for that. And then when I get home from school, typically in the spring, I'll go straight

00:29:48.240 to track practice. I usually have about a seven mile run. And then from there, I'll change real

00:29:52.960 quick and then walk over to soccer practice. So it's a pretty busy schedule. But my younger sister, 1.00

00:30:00.100 she does both track and soccer with me. So and I have a lot of coaches and teammates that are just

00:30:05.940 really, really supportive and understanding of how much I'm trying to juggle. So it definitely

00:30:10.900 takes an army, but I definitely have that. So yeah, you've committed a lot of your time and your

00:30:17.620 energy to this. How does it make you feel the possibility of competing against males when you

00:30:27.240 get to college? Is that like demoralizing or deflating? Tell us a little bit more about those

00:30:32.420 emotions and reaction to that. For sure. I think for me, sports have always been

00:30:40.700 something that I've kind of had to hand over to God. When I first started running in middle school,

00:30:45.360 I honestly hated it because it's hard. It's so hard. And you go into the races knowing that you're

00:30:52.000 going to feel awful during it and you just kind of have to suck it up and do your best. So that was

00:30:56.420 something when I was younger, I just couldn't quite, I couldn't handle. I would get so nervous. I would

00:31:01.520 just feel sick the whole day because I just knew what was coming. And as I got older and I kind of grew

00:31:07.360 in my faith also, I've just found joy in running because even though there is suffering, you know,

00:31:13.840 you're doing it with your teammates, your, your family's there for you, your coaches are there

00:31:17.240 for you. And I just kind of be able to put my, put my faith in God and, and know that as long as I

00:31:22.360 give my best, that's going to be, be good enough with whatever he gives me in my legs that day. So

00:31:27.200 then knowing that, you know, a biological man could come into my race and no matter how hard

00:31:34.000 I work, he is just better. He's built different and God made him different there. Obviously,

00:31:38.840 you know, there are so many factors that go into that. We really shouldn't even have to be talking

00:31:42.620 about it. Um, that really, I think takes away the true meaning behind sports and why so many girls 1.00

00:31:48.560 love to do it. I mean, all of the girls that I've met through track and field and soccer are all 0.97

00:31:52.520 hardworking majority of them, Christian girls that, that trust that if they work hard and they

00:31:57.840 dream big, that, that God will help them accomplish those goals. And if we allow these men to come into

00:32:03.220 our races, our soccer games, our swim meets, any of those things, um, that kind of defeats that

00:32:08.540 purpose and takes away those opportunities. Yes. And that was something that you wrote in this piece,

00:32:13.460 which is really well written. So great job on that. You say, if you try to ignore biological

00:32:18.680 differences, I guarantee there will be nothing left of women's sports. There will be no more 1.00

00:32:23.560 Sydney McLaughlin's, which who is awesome, by the way, I love following her on Instagram.

00:32:27.680 No, Serena Williams is who herself, by the way, she said several years ago is amazing as she is.

00:32:33.600 If she tried to compete against Andy Murray or any other tennis player, even a tennis player that

00:32:39.420 is not as elite as she is in men's sports that she would lose every time. So even she, this powerhouse

00:32:46.680 of an athlete is admitting that she can't compete against men because as you said, there are

00:32:50.900 biological differences, no Abby Wambachs, no female athletes that will be able to take the title 1.00

00:32:58.280 of best, whatever it is. How does that, how does that make you feel the, the idea that maybe there

00:33:06.800 will be no more truly women's sports anymore? Uh, yeah, it definitely is very demoralizing, 1.00

00:33:14.600 I think for all women. And, um, it's not really just even about the girls that are competing right

00:33:20.140 now. It's about the women that came before us. It's about all the little girls that will,

00:33:24.060 you know, come to compete in the future. And, you know, this summer, as I mentioned, I, um,

00:33:28.880 set the state record in the 800 and, um, that was a record before that, you know, Joy Ripslinger

00:33:34.220 and Shelby Houlihan, those women had, had set for me. And obviously it was an extremely fast time.

00:33:39.480 They are so extremely talented and I'm so lucky that they were from Iowa and kind of set that

00:33:44.780 standard for Iowa girls. But it's a time that was achievable. And I think if we have these, um,

00:33:51.700 males coming up in the future that are allowed to compete with women, they're going to be setting 1.00

00:33:55.380 times that are so far out of reach for girls. And that's not a knock on girls. That is just,

00:34:00.860 you know, um, an acceptance of the reality that men are different. And they're going to be setting

00:34:06.080 times that no girl, no girl can achieve no matter how hard she works. And so that's definitely very

00:34:11.440 frustrating and definitely, um, going to lead to some of that destruction of women's sports that I 1.00

00:34:15.900 mentioned in the article. Yep. Bodies compete, so-called gender identities don't, and that's 1.00

00:34:21.680 what matters. And as you say in the article, that shouldn't even have to be said, there should be more

00:34:26.680 people speaking up. Well, I'm so thankful for you. I know it takes a lot of courage to talk about this

00:34:32.960 because it's unpopular to talk about. Have you had any blowback, any pushback, or have you mostly

00:34:41.320 had support? Uh, yeah, I've definitely had a lot of both. Um, I think that the tough thing is though

00:34:49.520 that a lot of the people that support me are quiet. Um, and so that, that's pretty tough. And the, the

00:34:56.160 people that don't support me are very, very loud and very consistent in voicing that. And, you know,

00:35:01.240 it's no fun to, to go on my phone and see like all of these horrible things being said about me. But

00:35:06.580 at the end of the day, um, everything they're saying are like personal attacks on my character,

00:35:11.440 um, my faith, um, name calling, say I'm homophobic, transphobic. Um, I'm just scared of losing. And

00:35:18.720 as hard as it is to see those things, you know, I know my heart. I know everyone that knows me knows

00:35:23.420 my heart. God knows my heart, which is most important at the end of the day. And the fact that

00:35:27.540 they can't think of anything else to say, you know, but, but name calling and those personal

00:35:31.900 attacks, I think tells me that I'm doing something right at the end of the day. And, um, you know,

00:35:37.040 even though that's not fun to see, I think what bothers me the most is just knowing how big of an

00:35:42.740 issue this is and knowing how many people this impacts. And, um, I just want to make sure I'm

00:35:47.680 doing it justice because I know it is such an important issue. And I know that God has kind of

00:35:52.080 put it on my heart for a reason. And I don't feel like I'm the best person to kind of stand up for

00:35:57.400 this. You know, there are people that are smarter than me. There are people that are stronger than

00:36:01.060 me, just more knowledgeable, um, more articulate, can just deal with these issues better. Um,

00:36:06.940 and I, I don't feel that like that person quite honestly, but at the end of the day, I'm the one

00:36:10.900 that was willing to speak up. So, um, I've just been kind of trying to trust that, um, because I was

00:36:15.800 willing to do that. God will kind of, um, help put the things in me that I need to really carry

00:36:21.540 this message. Well, I know that you don't know me. And so this doesn't carry a lot of weight,

00:36:26.420 but I'm super proud of you and inspired by you. And truly courage is contagious. Courage begets

00:36:33.280 courage. So maybe you don't think that you're the best person, but as you said, and I know you

00:36:38.500 already know this, God does equip the people that he calls. He doesn't necessarily call the people

00:36:44.360 that might seem to the rest of the world, like they are the ones that he should call, like the ones who

00:36:50.360 are equipped, but he will equip you because he has called you to this and your courage is in itself

00:36:56.260 obedience and it will bring glory to God because of that. And I love your humility as well. Um,

00:37:03.180 it really is inspiring. So thank you for having the bravery in the midst of expected pushback and

00:37:09.840 blowback and name calling. I know that you've got thick skin. That's part of being an athlete at your

00:37:15.100 level, but also no one likes, no one likes to be treated that way. No one likes to be named called

00:37:20.920 as confident as anyone is. It's just not fun. So thank you for enduring that. Is there any where,

00:37:28.120 and it's okay if there's not, but if, is there any way that people can reach out to you or follow you

00:37:33.880 to send you just words of encouragement and support? Because there are thousands of people,

00:37:39.980 tens of thousands of people who are going to be listening to this,

00:37:42.720 watching this, who are going to want to support you. Is there any way for people to do that?

00:37:49.080 Uh, yeah, well, my Instagram is Ainsley underscore Erzin and, um, I, I really have been getting so much

00:37:54.800 support from people there. Just lots of DMs, lots of, lots of super nice messages, just encouraging me

00:38:00.160 and, um, kind of reminding me that, um, to stay strong in my faith that, that God, um, will back truth.

00:38:06.160 He is truth. Um, so that really has been really helpful and has been something that's

00:38:10.720 really encouraged me and kept me going. Good. Well, thank you so much, Ainsley. Thanks for taking

00:38:15.740 the time to talk to us. Thank you so much.

00:38:29.560 Okay, guys, as I said, at the end of yesterday's episode, Friday, we are going to have a bonus

00:38:35.760 birthday episode. I am turning 30 years old. Um, I have mixed feelings about turning 30.

00:38:43.020 It's a little, I don't know. It's just, it's a little weird. I mean, I'm thankful for every year

00:38:47.320 that God has given me. Absolutely. And so much happened in my twenties. And I'll talk more about

00:38:52.200 that on Friday that I'm very thankful for. And I just love the life that God has given me. But

00:38:58.120 30 just sounds really old. It just sounds really old to no longer be in my twenties. And so as I said

00:39:05.880 on Instagram, I'm really going to milk it the next few days to talk about as someone who's just in

00:39:12.000 my twenties, as a 20 something, as someone who's, you know, in my late, late twenties. So I'm going

00:39:19.380 to do that while I can. So you can expect that. Also, if you love this podcast, please leave us a

00:39:24.000 five-star review on Apple podcast. That would mean a whole lot. All right. I will see you guys back

00:39:29.060 here tomorrow.

Relatable with Allie Beth Stuckey - February 16, 2022

Ep 565 ｜ The Women Saving Women's Sports ｜ Guest： Ainsley Erzen

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