Relatable with Allie Beth Stuckey - Ep 605 ｜ Coach Kennedy & Today’s SCOTUS Hearings ｜ Guests： Joe Kennedy & Jeremy Dys

00:00:00.000 Hey guys, welcome to Relatable. Happy Monday. This episode is brought to you by our friends

00:00:05.140 at Good Ranchers. Go to goodranchers.com slash Allie. That's goodranchers.com slash Allie.

00:00:19.700 All right, guys, today we are talking to Coach Kennedy. You may have heard his story before.

00:00:25.200 He is the coach from Washington State that prayed before football games and then was sued for it.

00:00:33.860 And now for the past seven years, he has been in court battles over this. And his case

00:00:38.840 is before the Supreme Court today. You can listen to oral arguments online and really they're

00:00:44.900 deciding, can you pray on the property of public schools? And I'm kind of like rolling my eyes as

00:00:50.400 I'm saying this because it's kind of insane that we are even having that debate. But

00:00:54.520 today we're going to hear his story and we are going to hear from his lawyer as well,

00:00:58.700 like what the arguments are and why this matters for all of us. Before we get into any of that,

00:01:03.620 I would just ask, I like to ask every now and then, if you guys love this podcast,

00:01:07.620 if you could please leave us a five-star review on Apple Podcasts, that would mean a lot.

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00:01:31.900 you get 10% off. So it's great for you. Great gift. Also, guys, if you're listening or watching,

00:01:37.040 it is a great Mother's Day gift. A lot of people commented on my Instagram post saying that this

00:01:41.940 would, that they want this for Mother's Day. So pay attention, pay attention. But we've got other

00:01:46.400 stuff coming out too. And so, yeah, I'm really excited. You guys have been asking for merch.

00:01:50.380 And so we finally got it. Check that out if you haven't already. All right. Let me give you some

00:01:54.920 context about this whole Coach Kennedy case. As you can imagine, a lot of people on the left think

00:02:01.400 that he should not have the right to pray without any coercion of the students or any kind of like

00:02:08.540 official backing of his public school. He should not be able to pray at football games. And Slate,

00:02:14.440 of course, ran this very negative article about him claiming a bunch of things that just aren't true.

00:02:19.940 So I just kind of want to give you a taste of what's being said and what I think is the very

00:02:24.460 unfair coverage surrounding this. And it kind of helps us understand really what moment that we're

00:02:29.440 in when we're talking about this. So Slate claims that Coach Kennedy led explicitly religious prayer

00:02:34.680 circles with students at the 50-yard line after the games. But the truth is that Kennedy started

00:02:39.420 praying alone. As we will hear today, he did not stop students who wanted to join him, but he actually

00:02:44.580 didn't ask them to. That was not a program that he started. Slate also claims that the school

00:02:50.320 district repeatedly sought to accommodate his beliefs, asking him to pray in a less public

00:02:54.620 location to avoid conveying the school's endorsement of his beliefs. But the reality is that the school

00:03:00.620 district advised Kennedy that his motivational speeches must remain entirely secular in nature,

00:03:05.140 that any religious activity must be physically separate from any student activity,

00:03:08.660 and students may not be allowed to join such activity, which again, he did his best to

00:03:16.040 accommodate at every level. Of course, Slate claims that he refused, but actually he temporarily stopped

00:03:22.360 praying to accommodate this request. But he convicted to pray by himself after the games as he felt that

00:03:28.840 God directed him to do. And so he did. Slate also claims that he fired or he hired far-right First

00:03:36.320 Liberty Institute to threaten the school with a lawsuit. That is also not true. One, you can just

00:03:43.240 bet if people on the left say far-right, what they just mean is that like to the right of Bernie Sanders,

00:03:48.680 they're not far-right. They are constitutional lawyers that care about our freedoms and thank

00:03:54.220 goodness for people like First Liberty. The truth is, is that Coach Kennedy hired the lawyers after

00:03:59.980 initially complying with the school's request. And by the way, he's just trying to uphold his

00:04:05.400 constitutional rights. That's not threatening the school. It's not attacking the school. Of course,

00:04:09.720 as the left often does, they try to make it into like a Republican's pounce situation.

00:04:14.540 And they try to say that the left is being victimized when in reality, they're not.

00:04:19.780 Then he says that Slate says that he and his lawyers launched a media blitz, falsely claiming

00:04:25.400 that he had been persecuted for a quiet private prayer. But in actuality, that's true. It's not a social

00:04:31.180 media blitz. They're just trying to raise awareness about what was happening. Because as you will hear,

00:04:35.700 he was also, he had to quit his job because of this. He had to be removed from this position.

00:04:42.480 And of course, Slate exaggerates saying that his prayers had become this like great spectacle,

00:04:47.360 that he was trying to draw attention. But as you will hear from him today, that is not what was

00:04:54.920 happening. He had a brief silent prayer. This is silent prayers that we're talking about. And then

00:05:01.160 20 players in October of, I believe it was 2015, from the other team knelt by him and also prayed.

00:05:10.660 So they're voluntarily doing this. This is not a program of the school. He's not coercing. He's not

00:05:15.640 asking anyone to do this with him. And for that, he has been in a legal battle since 2015. And so

00:05:24.040 this is troubling. The question is like, do you have to check all of your sincerely held beliefs

00:05:29.420 at the door when you enter into the public square? And if so, why? Secularists don't do that. 1.00

00:05:34.840 Secular progressivism is not a neutral worldview. And they certainly bring in their worldview and

00:05:39.540 their beliefs about gender and morality and God and sexuality and truth and America into every sphere

00:05:46.020 that they occupy. And they try to dominate institutions and curriculum and corporate policy

00:05:52.120 with their particular worldview, which is very religious in nature. So why is it that conservative

00:05:57.760 Christians have to not only be relegated to private prayer, but not even that, that they actually have 0.98

00:06:04.440 to bow down to secular progressivism in the public square rather than representing their beliefs in a

00:06:10.360 way that is not coercive, but in a way that is simply genuine and obedient? Why is that in an unfair

00:06:18.420 standard? I have confidence that the Supreme Court is going to rule justly here. I think that we can all

00:06:24.100 hope that that is the case and pray that that is the case. We believe in this kind of religious

00:06:28.840 liberty for people of all backgrounds. But of course, there are some unfair, unfair allegations

00:06:35.460 and reporting when it comes to this case. He has been very, I think, unfairly maligned in the media

00:06:40.240 because of this. Okay, guys, thank you so much for joining me. You said a few minutes ago that you guys have

00:06:49.320 done like 40 interviews together. Is that right? Yeah.

00:06:52.680 Y'all are like a married couple finishing each other's sentences, that kind of thing. I can tell the dynamic

00:06:58.140 works. And so I'm excited to talk to both of you. I'll talk to you about the story. I know, because you guys have

00:07:04.040 done so many interviews, a lot of people are familiar with the story. But there's a lot of people who aren't.

00:07:09.920 There's a lot of people who don't know your story, don't know what's been going on for the past several

00:07:13.960 years. And so I just want to get that story once again. And this is a faith-based podcast. This is a Christian

00:07:18.860 podcast. And so we want to hear about your faith and how the Lord has sustained you through what I imagine is a

00:07:23.960 pretty big trial in your life. So let's go back. Let's go back to 2015. Or if we even want to go back to 2008, when

00:07:30.660 you were originally hired, we can. How did all of this start? Why are you guys doing interviews together? Why do people

00:07:36.760 even know your name? I would have to say we want to start about 2008. And when I was offered the job

00:07:43.020 as a high school football coach in Bremerton, Washington, and it was really by a fluke. And God

00:07:48.320 kind of showed up and gave me a calling. I had no idea. I just retired from the Marine Corps. And I was

00:07:55.320 out on a run. And the, what was he, the athletic director from Bremerton School District saw me out

00:08:01.420 running. And I had my wrestling shoes on and a Bremerton shirt on. And he stopped me and wanted

00:08:07.320 kind of my bio. And he said, we're looking for coaches. And that's how it all started. Really by

00:08:12.840 a fluke that, you know, somebody told him to, hey, we need coaches. And God picked me.

00:08:19.760 Yeah. Wow. That's amazing. And before we get into kind of the trouble, if you will, that all started,

00:08:26.880 tell me a little bit about your testimony. Tell me about your Christian faith, how you became a

00:08:31.760 believer. It started right about 2007. I retired from the Marine Corps and married my childhood

00:08:39.560 sweetheart. And it was just really cool how God worked that out because, I mean, we haven't talked

00:08:45.660 in 30 years plus, you know. And so we ended up together and she was a, she grew up in the church.

00:08:53.420 It was a, you know, always the good girl and I was always a bad kid. So she invited me every Sunday

00:09:00.140 without fail. Hey, would you like to go to church with us? And of course I had every excuse under the

00:09:05.200 sun. And one day our son said, well, if he doesn't have to go, do I have to go? And, you know, being a

00:09:13.280 parent, it's like, wow, I'm setting a bad example for him. So I put on a nice shirt and went in there.

00:09:19.620 And of course I sat there like this the whole time. Well, my wife was having a lot of problems. 1.00

00:09:24.720 She was abused when she was a kid and she was in a very abusive marriage to the, to the, you know,

00:09:32.020 where it came, she had to run away and go to a woman's shelter. So she had a hard time dealing with 0.98

00:09:37.940 being close to somebody and letting her guard down. And I knew I wasn't getting through. So

00:09:44.440 one day at church, uh, I, I just broke down. I don't know where it came from. I just fell to my

00:09:50.660 knees and, you know, basically exposed my soul to God and said, Hey, I can't do this myself. If

00:09:57.040 you help me with her, I'm going to give you my life. And that's the way it started. And that was

00:10:02.460 about 2007.

00:10:03.540 That was 2007. So you met your wife around, around that time?

00:10:08.760 Uh, when, uh, we reconnected, I met her when we were both nine years old.

00:10:12.960 Yes. And tell us that story. Cause that's a fun little story.

00:10:15.360 Yeah. Why not? People love it. This is mostly women who are listening to this podcast. And so we

00:10:19.420 definitely love, love stories.

00:10:21.140 Okay. It might sound cheesy, but my brother and I, we were, uh, he, he came home from school and I

00:10:29.320 wasn't going to that school because I got kicked out of it. You can imagine, um, being in, what is

00:10:34.340 that third grade? And he came home and said, there's this new girl that lives down the road. 0.70

00:10:39.240 She's so beautiful. And of course I had to go see. I was like, let's go talk to her. So I walked up

00:10:44.980 her driveway and there's this little girl sitting on the front porch and I walked right up to her and 0.71

00:10:50.200 she looked at me and this is the cheesy part, I think, but it's, it's so true. She looked up at me 0.98

00:10:56.080 and she brushed her long bangs out of her eyes and I saw her brown eyes and it was like slow motion

00:11:01.380 and my jaw just. And you were nine years old at this point. And I'm just looking at her with my

00:11:07.000 mouth wide open and she goes, can I help you? And I said, yeah, I want to marry you. She said,

00:11:12.620 you're creepy. I'm going in the house. Yeah. And from that moment on, well, actually me and my

00:11:16.880 brother, we went back to the house fighting over it. It was the first fist fight we ever got into

00:11:21.420 it was who was going to marry her. And I can say I won that one and I won overall too.

00:11:27.520 Yes. Wow. That's incredible. Okay. So fast forward now you're married to your wife, 2008,

00:11:32.900 just by God's providence, you are hired as a coach at this high school. And then when did you start

00:11:41.240 praying on the field? And then when did that become a problem for some people?

00:11:45.560 Okay. They offered me a job on a Friday and I said, well, give me the weekend over and be a new

00:11:51.940 baby Christian. Let me pray about it. And talked over with my family. Three of our kids were in

00:11:57.300 Bremerton schools. So our daughter and our middle son, they were both at the high school. I didn't

00:12:04.080 want to intrude on them. It's bad enough to have me around the house. So you can imagine what it's like

00:12:09.220 having your dad at school too. So we had a lot to talk about. And then the movie Facing the Giants came on

00:12:15.180 in the middle of the night and it was an answered prayer. God, you know, God never shows up when

00:12:19.980 you want him to, but he does when you need him to. And I fell to my knees and it was the answer call.

00:12:26.240 And in the movie, the guy said, I'm going to give you credit. You know, I'm going to give the glory

00:12:30.280 after every game, win or lose. And that's where I decided to do that. I made a covenant with God

00:12:35.540 right there on my living room floor. And very first football game, that's exactly what I did.

00:12:41.020 It was all by myself. And I just thank God. And it was something simple. Well, a couple of the kids

00:12:48.640 came over months later and said, coach, what are you doing out there? And I said, just thanking God

00:12:53.780 for you guys. And they said, can we join you? Well, yeah, it's a free country. You can do whatever

00:12:58.700 you want. So they started coming out and it kind of became more and more. It wasn't always because if

00:13:05.380 you lose, sometimes kids don't want to celebrate and they sure don't want to have a moment of peace.

00:13:10.840 They, you know, want to lick the wounds and go back onto their life. Or sometimes if it was a great

00:13:16.660 win, they're going crazy and want to hang out with their girlfriends and the fans and everything. So

00:13:21.100 it was one of those hit and miss. If they came out, cool. If they didn't, cool. It made absolutely

00:13:26.240 no difference. I would just thank God every time after the game.

00:13:29.540 Yeah. And then when did it actually become an issue that has started this whole legal battle

00:13:38.320 over several years? Because it sounds like people were excited about it. It wasn't really a big deal.

00:13:43.740 There were just students joining, but then obviously at some point someone got offended

00:13:47.900 down the line, right? Well, it's interesting. It came from a compliment. In 2015, one of the

00:13:53.920 administrators from another school district, they saw what we were doing and called the principal

00:13:58.120 and the principal said, or they told the principal, Hey, what your football program is doing is really

00:14:03.780 awesome. They saw the sportsmanship after the game where two teams came together. And of course,

00:14:10.200 when you get a compliment, you want to start an investigation. And that's where it all started.

00:14:14.460 They investigated it and we worked for a long time. It seemed forever to trying to work through

00:14:21.440 everything. And because these guys are my friends, you know, the superintendent's a good friend of

00:14:25.740 mine. We've worked together for almost a decade and I didn't want to fight with them. They didn't

00:14:29.900 want to fight with me. We wanted to resolve everything as quickly as possible. But as Jeremy

00:14:36.380 would tell you, they started moving the goalposts and then it goes into this huge timeline of basically

00:14:42.220 it came down to me or them telling me, Hey, you either stop praying or you lose your job.

00:14:47.860 Hmm. Can you give us a little bit more insight into what was going on behind the scenes? Why do

00:14:54.860 you think they decided to make this a thing, make this a big deal? Why do you think that they decided

00:15:00.200 that this was contentious and that they were going to basically take this to court? You know, it's hard

00:15:05.000 to figure that out. And much of that, they're going to have to answer for themselves on that. But

00:15:08.780 there seems to be this kind of reigning thought, especially within the school districts right now,

00:15:12.980 that if religion pops up on campus, they've got to stamp it out. Almost like it's a virus that's 0.99

00:15:18.500 going to go get everybody sick of a new pandemic, if you will. And they've just got to stamp it out

00:15:22.960 before it infects everybody. And I don't know that that's necessarily an intentional thing. I think

00:15:27.240 a lot of times just they're so nervous about that because there's been so much controversy around

00:15:31.720 the country, unnecessary controversy about it, that they just feel the need that I have to like,

00:15:35.640 just shut it down. The interesting thing in coach's case is when they said, Hey, look,

00:15:39.140 you're praying with the kids that needs to stop. He said, Okay, that was never my commitment to God

00:15:43.820 in the first place. I'm happy to do it by myself. He stopped immediately. I was early on in September

00:15:48.760 of 2015. He never prayed with the kids ever again. And it was not going to be a problem. We thought

00:15:53.380 honestly, when this case started, you know, maybe three weeks and this case is over. Well, here we are

00:15:57.760 seven and a half years later on the sixth round now of litigation at the Supreme Court of the United

00:16:02.580 States. We're still going. Why did it extend? What happened past the three weeks that made it keep

00:16:08.720 going? So coach asked, Look, I'll just go back to doing my thing of, you know, praying by myself

00:16:13.320 at the 50 yard line. And they started saying a couple things. Well, number one, the this is

00:16:17.780 going to take away from your job responsibilities. At least that's the argument that they made.

00:16:21.900 Because, you know, taking a knee for 15, maybe 30 seconds in silent prayer will keep him from

00:16:26.580 supervising the kids, at least is what they were saying. So I said, Well, is there a compromise we can

00:16:30.740 come up to because we couldn't think of something with it. They said, Well, tell you what,

00:16:33.920 you can go across the field, across the track, up two flights of stairs, across a practice field,

00:16:39.800 inside the school building, down the hallway and into the janitor's office, and you can pray there.

00:16:44.220 Well, that would take a lot more time and take away from the supervision.

00:16:46.720 I never stepped at all, too. Right.

00:16:47.660 Yeah.

00:16:48.060 So clearly that narrative was not true. They just said also, you know, you go up the press box,

00:16:52.460 and that way nobody will see you up there. Well, that's interesting, too, because you have to

00:16:55.560 follow the same path, except you got to go outside the stadium, back down the sidewalk,

00:16:59.100 across a catwalk. Then you got to clear everybody out of the press box.

00:17:02.400 And then there's these giant windows up there, too, that everybody can see. So that clearly wasn't

00:17:06.900 a problem, either. They just simply didn't want it on the field. And then they started saying,

00:17:10.700 Well, we recognize that, and this is their words, that your prayer was fleeting, and it was getting

00:17:15.660 closer to whatever it was that they wanted. But still, they could see you. And because they could

00:17:20.820 see you, the students could see him engaged in that. And he's wearing a shirt much like he's wearing

00:17:24.880 right now with the Bremerton logo on it, and they know he's an authority figure. Well, that's an

00:17:29.160 establishment, that's coercion that would violate the establishment clause.

00:17:32.400 Of the First Amendment. Well, that's not true, but that's the argument they came back with here.

00:17:37.320 So there was really no more room for compromise. It was either he stopped entirely or violate the

00:17:44.960 Constitution, according to the school district. And so we were at an impasse, something we thought

00:17:49.580 would be very reasonable compromise. You know, he got a 50-yard line that's 50 yards wide. He could do

00:17:54.000 it anywhere on there. But because they could see him engaged in demonstrative religious activity,

00:17:58.760 they said, that was enough to violate the Constitution. So now, seven and a half years

00:18:02.600 later, we're still litigating that question.

00:18:08.800 I saw an argument being made from the other side saying, you know, this isn't just about his

00:18:12.940 constitutional right. This is about impressionable students and the way that he is affecting

00:18:17.240 impressionable students, which is hilarious considering the conversation surrounding some

00:18:21.760 legislation in places like Florida. Impressionable students apparently are being coerced into,

00:18:28.900 I don't know, your religious activity by seeing you pray. I guess that's the argument that's being

00:18:33.820 made. What has been the, what's been the history? Why is this still going on? And why are you now at

00:18:40.300 the Supreme Court? What led to this?

00:18:41.960 I find that argument fascinating coming from a school.

00:18:44.040 Right.

00:18:44.520 Because a school is in, is charged with teaching. Right. And so if they're concerned about him,

00:18:49.500 you know, engage in a personal activity that could be violating, well, they have the opportunity to

00:18:54.300 educate the audience. And if they, if the school district can't educate the audience as to his

00:18:58.000 civil rights, one's got to wonder if they can teach anything at all within the school district here.

00:19:02.340 So they could have, they could have put a sign up, they could have made an announcement,

00:19:05.860 and they could have done any number of things to explain what was going on. Instead,

00:19:08.740 they chose to fire coach for taking 15 to 30 seconds on a knee in silent prayer after the game at the

00:19:12.820 50 yard line. And the danger now has become that the Ninth Circuit adopted their reasoning on this

00:19:18.520 whole thing. And so the basic standard for the Ninth Circuit now is that if you're engaged in

00:19:23.660 demonstrative religious activity as a teacher or a coach within the public schools, you could be

00:19:29.440 terminated from your job like Coach Kennedy has been. So what does that mean in practicality? Well,

00:19:34.540 the ramifications of this are huge. If a teacher were to, for instance, say grace over her lunch in the

00:19:40.460 cafeteria and students can see that person engaged in that demonstrative religious activity, well,

00:19:44.800 that could be grounds for termination. Well, what about the teacher who wears a yarmulke or a hijab or 0.82

00:19:49.620 a crucifix around their neck while teaching? All of those things are outward displays of religion.

00:19:54.920 Those are private acts of worship. Some are required by their faith even. Those could be grounds for

00:20:00.420 his termination. Now the school district will say, no, no, those are different. Well,

00:20:04.300 tell me how. Those are exactly the same scenarios. One happens to be, you know, on a knee like you're

00:20:10.160 tying your shoes, but you're praying. And so where would this will go? I mean, it has huge ramifications

00:20:17.220 for teachers and coaches across the country. Think about coaches that, you know, you have a

00:20:21.900 quarterback that goes down in the middle of the game and maybe they've got a torn ACL and that kid's

00:20:25.880 future is just ruined right there. And the coach bows his head just a little too long. Is that going to be

00:20:30.960 enough for that coach to be terminated just because he's engaged in demonstrative, praying that this

00:20:35.320 kid's future is not ruined? I mean, that's not the country that we've grown up in. No one should

00:20:39.300 be fired from their job for having to choose between their faith and their livelihood.

00:20:43.600 Didn't a student group at one point invite the Seattle Satanists to one of the games? Is that

00:20:49.440 something that happened?

00:20:51.540 That's somewhat true. There was a teacher that was involved with that. And I know the kid,

00:20:57.660 great kid. He was a student body president and we have talked many, many times and he thought it was

00:21:03.060 going to be a big, you know, good versus evil kind of thing. And it would defuse everything. That was

00:21:08.220 his plan. But the teacher who was involved in it was one of the ones that was the organizer and

00:21:16.560 participated in it. And it was quite a spectacle. It was ridiculous. I was just hoping that they would

00:21:22.580 actually come in and buy a ticket and maybe some hot dogs because all that money goes to our

00:21:27.480 football program.

00:21:28.600 Yeah. So you thought that maybe it would turn out to be something that actually benefited the

00:21:32.820 school in the situation.

00:21:33.880 I would have been perfect. If they could have sat right beside me, I would have been all right.

00:21:37.380 Hey, maybe they would have been, if they're impressionable, maybe they would have been

00:21:40.280 influenced by your prayer.

00:21:41.660 I'd be careful now.

00:21:42.380 You never know. You never know. All right. Before I get into what you think is going to happen

00:21:47.920 in the Supreme Court, I know that the conservative justices issued some kind of statement

00:21:52.820 saying that they were concerned about your First Amendment rights. I just want to hear

00:21:57.720 from you personally how this has impacted your faith. I'm sure that it is not the outcome that

00:22:04.840 you thought was going to come about when you took this job in 2008, even when there was that covenant

00:22:11.820 in your words with God where you said that you were going to live out your faith and give him glory.

00:22:16.060 Surely you didn't think that it was going to be this challenging, correct?

00:22:21.160 That's a good way to put it.

00:22:23.960 Yes. And so just tell me kind of what it's been like for you and your family emotionally and spiritually.

00:22:30.240 I would say the first, probably first couple of years was the worst. Definitely the first,

00:22:35.880 probably six months. I thought my wife and I were not going to make it. It's a little known fact

00:22:41.660 that she worked for the school district that we're suing. And not only did she work there,

00:22:47.180 she was the HR director for the school district. So you can imagine the friction that caused. 1.00

00:22:52.220 And I was a new believer and I had absolutely no way of being able to tell her why I had to do what

00:22:59.900 I was doing. And it wasn't until the-

00:23:03.840 So she didn't really understand at first?

00:23:05.700 No, no, not at all. She thought I was, you know, and of course she blames herself and she's like,

00:23:10.400 I'm a bad wife because I'm mad at my husband. I'm a bad Christian because I'm mad at God.

00:23:15.720 And she's mad at herself because she can't be a good employee because she would normally handle 1.00

00:23:20.040 all of these issues. And it was just a perfect storm for us. And I thought we were actually,

00:23:27.660 we couldn't talk. You'd come home and say, Hey, how was your day? No, not that. I mean,

00:23:33.720 what do you talk about? There's a giant, you know, not even an elephant. It's a trinosaurus in the

00:23:39.060 middle of the room. And it was so awkward and it was great how God showed up at that. I was about

00:23:45.720 ready to leave and she was crying on the bed. I was at my wits end because I didn't know how to

00:23:51.160 deal with any of this. And I'm hurting the person that I love the most. And I was walking out of the

00:23:56.720 room and I got a text message and I'm like, who in the heck is calling me at this time? And as I

00:24:02.500 walked out, I clicked it and it was a video. It was the coach from Facing the Giants. And he said,

00:24:10.700 I understand that you're having some hard times. And let me tell you, I almost fell down the stairs.

00:24:15.620 I broke our railing off and my wife comes running out. And she's like, she goes, are you okay? And

00:24:20.400 I hand her my phone and she goes, okay, well, you know, trying to help me up. And I couldn't,

00:24:24.440 I couldn't, what's wrong? And I just kept pointing to my phone. And then she looked at it and she sat

00:24:28.860 down and she hit play and we sat there and bawled our eyes out. And that solidified our relationship,

00:24:35.140 especially with God. He became the center of our relationship. Before it was always, God was always

00:24:41.200 part of it and we were individual parts, but that totally solidified it. After that, it became a lot

00:24:49.220 easier as far as my relationship with God and with my family. It made it all worth it that, you know,

00:24:56.540 we went through the hard time together, but it has been a long drawn out battle. Seven years is

00:25:02.240 longer than anybody should have to, you know, go through one of these things. I thought it was

00:25:07.760 going to be like law and order where something happens one day, you're in court the next day.

00:25:12.160 And then the next day you're back doing what you love. When they said it was going to be a three week

00:25:16.660 project, I was like, whoa, whoa, whoa. No, we're in the middle of the football season. We only have four

00:25:22.220 games left. I can't wait three weeks to get back on the field. So I really thought we could all work

00:25:27.620 it out into, you know, especially the first week. And I thought we were all on the same sheet of music

00:25:32.500 and I tried to abide by everything because I have no hard feelings towards them. And the superintendent

00:25:40.040 doesn't have any hard feelings towards me. It's the law. I always blame the lawyers, of course.

00:25:45.720 Lawyers, they make a mess out of everything.

00:25:47.520 Yeah. Can't live with them. Can't live without them, I guess.

00:25:49.920 Yeah. I think it's illegal to kill them too. 1.00

00:25:52.440 Yeah. So tell us, tell us about, I know you already did a little bit, but tell us about the

00:25:58.920 most recent iterations and the most recent events on this timeline and what you were expecting as

00:26:06.100 far as the Supreme Court goes.

00:26:08.400 Yeah. And it's probably best to start with actually looking back in history because it's come full

00:26:12.040 circle now because the school district is now arguing, and this is clearly the attorneys that

00:26:16.380 they've adopted for the appeal that are making this argument that he was coercing kids into prayer.

00:26:20.900 Well, that's demonstrably false. I mean, if you go to coachkennedyfact.com, you can read these for

00:26:25.020 yourselves. On October 21st, so this is a week before he's suspended, the superintendent sends an

00:26:30.540 email to the head director of schools in the state of Washington. And in that email, he says, this has

00:26:34.400 changed from, this case has shifted from becoming a case about a coach praying with the athletes

00:26:39.180 to a coach praying by himself at the 50-yard line. Five days later, he would take his last knee after

00:26:45.920 the JV game on October 26th. Two days later, he's suspended. And on the day they suspend him,

00:26:52.680 they put a Q&A out on the website and they said, you know, we've done this whole investigation.

00:26:56.900 There is indeed no evidence that any student was coerced into praying with the coach at all.

00:27:01.760 And yet they continue to maintain to the Supreme Court that he's engaged in coercing these students.

00:27:07.100 Their hashtag is pray to play, which is just simply false. Number one, he didn't have any

00:27:11.480 time. He didn't control. I know. I mean, I know it's speculation and maybe you can't say, but

00:27:19.020 is it just, do you think it's ideological for them, their motivations? What's in it for them?

00:27:25.340 Well, I think the school district has pure motives. They're just trying to figure it out.

00:27:28.620 But I do think the attorneys, I think may have a different agenda on things. And I don't like to

00:27:34.540 cast aspersions too much on what that may be, but their arguments here justify reality,

00:27:39.420 if that makes some sense. And so I think the Supreme Court's going to, the Supreme Court's no

00:27:43.480 fools. I mean, they've got good justices, their clerks are top notch. They're going to look into

00:27:47.700 the record and the record is very clear how coach stopped praying with the kids when he's asked to

00:27:52.660 stop praying with the kids. And they refuse to allow him to continue the practice of just by

00:27:57.200 himself for 15 to 30 seconds, taking a knee in private prayer at the 50 yard line. There should be no

00:28:02.880 major concern about that whatsoever in this nation that values the free exercise of religion.

00:28:07.700 And yet they've denied that to him time and time again, even though they said it was, quote,

00:28:11.780 fleeting that he was engaged in that kind of activity. And so to deny him that entirely and

00:28:16.800 to make him choose between the job that he loves and his faith, well, no American should have to make

00:28:23.840 that decision. I hope, and again, it's a bit of a fool's errand to try to handicap the Supreme Court

00:28:29.080 of the United States. But I would hope that the justices, even the liberal ones, would understand

00:28:33.680 that important principle. Because what happens to Coach Kennedy, look, at the end of the day,

00:28:38.420 I just want him back on the field with his kids. And if that's the only decision, great. But if it

00:28:41.940 goes beyond that, if the standard is that if you engage in any kind of religion in the public square,

00:28:47.900 your employer can fire you. Well, the promise of the First Amendment is all but dead.

00:28:52.300 And it seems to me, from my perspective, that Christians are held to a higher standard. You

00:29:01.740 mentioned if someone is wearing a hijab, if someone is wearing any kind of outward expression

00:29:07.140 of their faith, is that going to be considered an act of worship that is a fireable offense? It

00:29:13.220 doesn't seem that that is the standard that's applied across the board. It seems like there seems

00:29:18.300 to be a higher standard for Christians engaging in prayer. Maybe that's my personal bias.

00:29:23.520 Well, it's interesting you say that. And I'm sorry to interrupt, but one of the judges in the

00:29:27.880 Ninth Circuit wrote this entire opinion. And it was an unfortunate narration. Let's put it that way.

00:29:34.560 But at the very end of it, after criticizing him for his free exercise rights, and even for talking

00:29:38.560 to the media, which I thought was kind of interesting, he kind of commits the First Amendment

00:29:41.160 trifecta, violates the Establishment Clause, violates the Free Speech Clause, and violates the

00:29:45.120 people, you know, the freedom of the press, all in the same act. So it was kind of crazy.

00:29:48.720 Yeah, I'm horrible because I'm talking to you.

00:29:50.280 Yeah.

00:29:50.620 But if being a bad citizen is not bad enough, according to this judge, at the very end of

00:29:54.940 it, he says, you know, as I read the Bible, we're not supposed to go out in public and pray.

00:29:59.260 We're supposed to go into our prayer closet. Now, think about that for a second. This is

00:30:02.240 a federal circuit judge.

00:30:03.840 Right.

00:30:04.300 That is basically declaring that Coach is a bad Christian. Well, that actually is an Establishment 0.87

00:30:08.740 Clause violation. That is actually telling him how he should or should not behave according

00:30:11.660 to his religious beliefs. And yet the irony is lost entirely upon the other side, that

00:30:17.640 a federal circuit judge would declare him basically to be a bad Christian. He knows that by himself.

00:30:23.420 Trying to love God and love others, we fail at that every day. But I mean, we don't need

00:30:27.180 a federal judge to tell you that you're a bad Christian or not.

00:30:29.600 Right. That has no bearing, should have no bearing. And of course, that is theologically

00:30:34.620 misleading because the point of that passage is not really about where we are praying, but the posture

00:30:40.540 of our heart when we're praying. It's about Pharisees wanting the glory, which is not why

00:30:45.320 you were praying. You weren't praying to be seen. You weren't praying to be celebrated.

00:30:49.520 You were praying because that is what Christians do. That's what we're called to pray without ceasing.

00:30:54.240 And being thankful. Yeah. I think that's in the Bible somewhere.

00:30:56.860 Yeah, I think so too. And so, you know, it reminds me so much of what the lawyers argued

00:31:03.020 in Jack Phillips's case when they compared him to, when they compared his actions to

00:31:10.440 Genghis Khan and all the rest. Yes. Racism and Nazism and discrimination against people. They're

00:31:17.040 making these theological moral statements beyond legal statements, which really does reveal kind

00:31:23.440 of an ideological motivation, which I think is really frightening. And again, should be frightening

00:31:27.900 for people, no matter their political affiliation, no matter their religious affiliation, when you

00:31:32.860 think about the possible implications of that for people's expression of religion or lack of expression

00:31:38.420 of religion. So what do you, what do you anticipate is going to happen? When do you anticipate this

00:31:44.100 decision? So we're going to have the argument on April 25th at the Supreme Court of the United States

00:31:47.980 that's coming right up. And then by the end of June, we should have a decision. Wow. You know,

00:31:51.840 there's a case back in the 1960s, very famous case called Tinker v. Des Moines. It's the student armband

00:31:55.900 case protesting the Vietnam War. And the court said that it's been the unmistakable holding on

00:32:00.480 that court for well over 60 years that neither students nor teachers must shed their constitutional

00:32:04.780 rights when they walk through the schoolhouse gates. That case dealt with students. And so we

00:32:09.220 know that students don't have to shed their constitutional rights when they go through

00:32:12.100 the schoolhouse gates. This case really could answer the second part of that, which really never

00:32:15.780 has been well answered by the court. Must teachers, must coaches shed their constitutional rights

00:32:20.860 when they go through the schoolhouse gates? How many of them must they shed? In what way do they have to

00:32:24.820 shed them? Does the state own all of Coach Kennedy's speech just because he wears a Bremerton

00:32:29.820 Knights t-shirt or a polo shirt? So if he's at Cracker Barrel and he says grace over his meal

00:32:34.640 and the student is sitting across the way and sees that, is that an exceptional clause violation?

00:32:38.140 I should hardly think so. But we're going to find out just how many constitutional rights

00:32:42.400 our public employees have when they walk through the schoolhouse gates by this case.

00:32:46.300 Yeah. And what is your prayer, your hope, your thought process right now?

00:32:50.060 Oh, it's been what it is from the beginning that I just want to coach high school football,

00:32:55.940 you know, and I want to be able to thank God afterwards. I mean, to me, it's not a big ask.

00:33:01.240 And it seems weird it's going to the Supreme Court just to ask to do something so simple and has been

00:33:06.780 part of my life for, you know, decades. So yeah, hopefully we will have a win and put my faith in

00:33:14.640 God. He's got all this and the justice system that, you know, the Supreme Court will actually

00:33:21.100 rule on the facts instead of their own made up stories.

00:33:25.700 And in addition to praying, is there anything my audience can do to offer support, to help?

00:33:31.740 They can go to firstliberty.org. They can actually send a note of support to Coach Kennedy through

00:33:36.540 that website. He reads those. He loves those when they get those things come through. But also,

00:33:41.220 I mean, go to coachkennedyfacts.com, which is a part of our website anyway, but tell the story to

00:33:46.680 everybody else around you. Share the, share the videos that are on that page that tells his whole

00:33:50.400 story. Coach has a very fascinating story that we've just barely scratched the surface of. I mean,

00:33:54.420 adopted kid kind of goes into foster care through most of his life, starts living on his own at the

00:33:58.920 age of 15, goes in the Marine Corps, serves our country, which is probably the most painful irony

00:34:04.320 here is that here he fought for the freedoms that he's been denied. And it's just, it's just

00:34:09.120 terrible. So firstliberty.org, coachkennedyfacts.com will get you more information about Coach.

00:34:13.880 But actually you are fighting for our freedoms now in a different way. And so it's not necessarily

00:34:19.800 on the same front lines that you were before, but by simply expressing your faith in a way that was

00:34:26.100 obedient to God, you are still to this day fighting for the freedoms that you fought for

00:34:30.680 when you were actually a service member. So thank you for that. Thank you for your courage.

00:34:35.580 I know it's not a battle that you meant to engage in, but you did for such a time as this,

00:34:41.800 and I'm thankful for it. I'm thankful for what you guys do as well. Gosh, we need, we need,

00:34:47.440 I know lawyers, they can be a pain, but we need good ones, right?

00:34:51.100 Two against one here now.

00:34:52.080 Yeah, that fight for freedom. So thank you guys so much. And I do encourage people,

00:34:56.500 my audience is a very encouraging, supportive audience. So I know that you're going to get a

00:35:00.300 ton of messages, kind messages from them and prayers. Absolutely.

00:35:03.960 Thank you guys so much for taking the time to come on. Thank you so much.

Relatable with Allie Beth Stuckey - April 25, 2022

Ep 605 ｜ Coach Kennedy & Today’s SCOTUS Hearings ｜ Guests： Joe Kennedy & Jeremy Dys

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