Ep 605 ｜ Coach Kennedy & Today’s SCOTUS Hearings ｜ Guests： Joe Kennedy & Jeremy Dys
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Summary
Coach Kennedy's case is before the Supreme Court today, and we get to hear from both his lawyer and his own side of the argument. This is a story about a Christian high school football coach who prayed before his team's games, and then was sued for it.
Transcript
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Hey guys, welcome to Relatable. Happy Monday. This episode is brought to you by our friends
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at Good Ranchers. Go to goodranchers.com slash Allie. That's goodranchers.com slash Allie.
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All right, guys, today we are talking to Coach Kennedy. You may have heard his story before.
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He is the coach from Washington State that prayed before football games and then was sued for it.
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And now for the past seven years, he has been in court battles over this. And his case
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is before the Supreme Court today. You can listen to oral arguments online and really they're
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deciding, can you pray on the property of public schools? And I'm kind of like rolling my eyes as
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I'm saying this because it's kind of insane that we are even having that debate. But
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today we're going to hear his story and we are going to hear from his lawyer as well,
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like what the arguments are and why this matters for all of us. Before we get into any of that,
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I would just ask, I like to ask every now and then, if you guys love this podcast,
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if you could please leave us a five-star review on Apple Podcasts, that would mean a lot.
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And so we finally got it. Check that out if you haven't already. All right. Let me give you some
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context about this whole Coach Kennedy case. As you can imagine, a lot of people on the left think
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that he should not have the right to pray without any coercion of the students or any kind of like
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official backing of his public school. He should not be able to pray at football games. And Slate,
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of course, ran this very negative article about him claiming a bunch of things that just aren't true.
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So I just kind of want to give you a taste of what's being said and what I think is the very
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unfair coverage surrounding this. And it kind of helps us understand really what moment that we're
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in when we're talking about this. So Slate claims that Coach Kennedy led explicitly religious prayer
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circles with students at the 50-yard line after the games. But the truth is that Kennedy started
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praying alone. As we will hear today, he did not stop students who wanted to join him, but he actually
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didn't ask them to. That was not a program that he started. Slate also claims that the school
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district repeatedly sought to accommodate his beliefs, asking him to pray in a less public
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location to avoid conveying the school's endorsement of his beliefs. But the reality is that the school
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district advised Kennedy that his motivational speeches must remain entirely secular in nature,
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that any religious activity must be physically separate from any student activity,
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and students may not be allowed to join such activity, which again, he did his best to
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accommodate at every level. Of course, Slate claims that he refused, but actually he temporarily stopped
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praying to accommodate this request. But he convicted to pray by himself after the games as he felt that
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God directed him to do. And so he did. Slate also claims that he fired or he hired far-right First
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Liberty Institute to threaten the school with a lawsuit. That is also not true. One, you can just
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bet if people on the left say far-right, what they just mean is that like to the right of Bernie Sanders,
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they're not far-right. They are constitutional lawyers that care about our freedoms and thank
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goodness for people like First Liberty. The truth is, is that Coach Kennedy hired the lawyers after
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initially complying with the school's request. And by the way, he's just trying to uphold his
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constitutional rights. That's not threatening the school. It's not attacking the school. Of course,
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as the left often does, they try to make it into like a Republican's pounce situation.
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And they try to say that the left is being victimized when in reality, they're not.
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Then he says that Slate says that he and his lawyers launched a media blitz, falsely claiming
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that he had been persecuted for a quiet private prayer. But in actuality, that's true. It's not a social
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media blitz. They're just trying to raise awareness about what was happening. Because as you will hear,
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he was also, he had to quit his job because of this. He had to be removed from this position.
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And of course, Slate exaggerates saying that his prayers had become this like great spectacle,
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that he was trying to draw attention. But as you will hear from him today, that is not what was
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happening. He had a brief silent prayer. This is silent prayers that we're talking about. And then
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20 players in October of, I believe it was 2015, from the other team knelt by him and also prayed.
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So they're voluntarily doing this. This is not a program of the school. He's not coercing. He's not
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asking anyone to do this with him. And for that, he has been in a legal battle since 2015. And so
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this is troubling. The question is like, do you have to check all of your sincerely held beliefs
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at the door when you enter into the public square? And if so, why? Secularists don't do that.
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Secular progressivism is not a neutral worldview. And they certainly bring in their worldview and
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their beliefs about gender and morality and God and sexuality and truth and America into every sphere
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that they occupy. And they try to dominate institutions and curriculum and corporate policy
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with their particular worldview, which is very religious in nature. So why is it that conservative
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Christians have to not only be relegated to private prayer, but not even that, that they actually have
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to bow down to secular progressivism in the public square rather than representing their beliefs in a
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way that is not coercive, but in a way that is simply genuine and obedient? Why is that in an unfair
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standard? I have confidence that the Supreme Court is going to rule justly here. I think that we can all
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hope that that is the case and pray that that is the case. We believe in this kind of religious
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liberty for people of all backgrounds. But of course, there are some unfair, unfair allegations
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and reporting when it comes to this case. He has been very, I think, unfairly maligned in the media
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because of this. Okay, guys, thank you so much for joining me. You said a few minutes ago that you guys have
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done like 40 interviews together. Is that right? Yeah.
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Y'all are like a married couple finishing each other's sentences, that kind of thing. I can tell the dynamic
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works. And so I'm excited to talk to both of you. I'll talk to you about the story. I know, because you guys have
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done so many interviews, a lot of people are familiar with the story. But there's a lot of people who aren't.
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There's a lot of people who don't know your story, don't know what's been going on for the past several
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years. And so I just want to get that story once again. And this is a faith-based podcast. This is a Christian
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podcast. And so we want to hear about your faith and how the Lord has sustained you through what I imagine is a
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pretty big trial in your life. So let's go back. Let's go back to 2015. Or if we even want to go back to 2008, when
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you were originally hired, we can. How did all of this start? Why are you guys doing interviews together? Why do people
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even know your name? I would have to say we want to start about 2008. And when I was offered the job
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as a high school football coach in Bremerton, Washington, and it was really by a fluke. And God
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kind of showed up and gave me a calling. I had no idea. I just retired from the Marine Corps. And I was
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out on a run. And the, what was he, the athletic director from Bremerton School District saw me out
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running. And I had my wrestling shoes on and a Bremerton shirt on. And he stopped me and wanted
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kind of my bio. And he said, we're looking for coaches. And that's how it all started. Really by
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a fluke that, you know, somebody told him to, hey, we need coaches. And God picked me.
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Yeah. Wow. That's amazing. And before we get into kind of the trouble, if you will, that all started,
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tell me a little bit about your testimony. Tell me about your Christian faith, how you became a
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believer. It started right about 2007. I retired from the Marine Corps and married my childhood
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sweetheart. And it was just really cool how God worked that out because, I mean, we haven't talked
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in 30 years plus, you know. And so we ended up together and she was a, she grew up in the church.
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It was a, you know, always the good girl and I was always a bad kid. So she invited me every Sunday
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without fail. Hey, would you like to go to church with us? And of course I had every excuse under the
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sun. And one day our son said, well, if he doesn't have to go, do I have to go? And, you know, being a
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parent, it's like, wow, I'm setting a bad example for him. So I put on a nice shirt and went in there.
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And of course I sat there like this the whole time. Well, my wife was having a lot of problems.
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She was abused when she was a kid and she was in a very abusive marriage to the, to the, you know,
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where it came, she had to run away and go to a woman's shelter. So she had a hard time dealing with
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being close to somebody and letting her guard down. And I knew I wasn't getting through. So
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one day at church, uh, I, I just broke down. I don't know where it came from. I just fell to my
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knees and, you know, basically exposed my soul to God and said, Hey, I can't do this myself. If
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you help me with her, I'm going to give you my life. And that's the way it started. And that was
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That was 2007. So you met your wife around, around that time?
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Uh, when, uh, we reconnected, I met her when we were both nine years old.
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Yes. And tell us that story. Cause that's a fun little story.
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Yeah. Why not? People love it. This is mostly women who are listening to this podcast. And so we
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Okay. It might sound cheesy, but my brother and I, we were, uh, he, he came home from school and I
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wasn't going to that school because I got kicked out of it. You can imagine, um, being in, what is
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that third grade? And he came home and said, there's this new girl that lives down the road.
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She's so beautiful. And of course I had to go see. I was like, let's go talk to her. So I walked up
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her driveway and there's this little girl sitting on the front porch and I walked right up to her and
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she looked at me and this is the cheesy part, I think, but it's, it's so true. She looked up at me
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and she brushed her long bangs out of her eyes and I saw her brown eyes and it was like slow motion
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and my jaw just. And you were nine years old at this point. And I'm just looking at her with my
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mouth wide open and she goes, can I help you? And I said, yeah, I want to marry you. She said,
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you're creepy. I'm going in the house. Yeah. And from that moment on, well, actually me and my
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brother, we went back to the house fighting over it. It was the first fist fight we ever got into
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it was who was going to marry her. And I can say I won that one and I won overall too.
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Yes. Wow. That's incredible. Okay. So fast forward now you're married to your wife, 2008,
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just by God's providence, you are hired as a coach at this high school. And then when did you start
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praying on the field? And then when did that become a problem for some people?
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Okay. They offered me a job on a Friday and I said, well, give me the weekend over and be a new
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baby Christian. Let me pray about it. And talked over with my family. Three of our kids were in
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Bremerton schools. So our daughter and our middle son, they were both at the high school. I didn't
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want to intrude on them. It's bad enough to have me around the house. So you can imagine what it's like
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having your dad at school too. So we had a lot to talk about. And then the movie Facing the Giants came on
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in the middle of the night and it was an answered prayer. God, you know, God never shows up when
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you want him to, but he does when you need him to. And I fell to my knees and it was the answer call.
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And in the movie, the guy said, I'm going to give you credit. You know, I'm going to give the glory
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after every game, win or lose. And that's where I decided to do that. I made a covenant with God
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right there on my living room floor. And very first football game, that's exactly what I did.
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It was all by myself. And I just thank God. And it was something simple. Well, a couple of the kids
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came over months later and said, coach, what are you doing out there? And I said, just thanking God
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for you guys. And they said, can we join you? Well, yeah, it's a free country. You can do whatever
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you want. So they started coming out and it kind of became more and more. It wasn't always because if
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you lose, sometimes kids don't want to celebrate and they sure don't want to have a moment of peace.
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They, you know, want to lick the wounds and go back onto their life. Or sometimes if it was a great
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win, they're going crazy and want to hang out with their girlfriends and the fans and everything. So
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it was one of those hit and miss. If they came out, cool. If they didn't, cool. It made absolutely
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no difference. I would just thank God every time after the game.
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Yeah. And then when did it actually become an issue that has started this whole legal battle
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over several years? Because it sounds like people were excited about it. It wasn't really a big deal.
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There were just students joining, but then obviously at some point someone got offended
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down the line, right? Well, it's interesting. It came from a compliment. In 2015, one of the
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administrators from another school district, they saw what we were doing and called the principal
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and the principal said, or they told the principal, Hey, what your football program is doing is really
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awesome. They saw the sportsmanship after the game where two teams came together. And of course,
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when you get a compliment, you want to start an investigation. And that's where it all started.
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They investigated it and we worked for a long time. It seemed forever to trying to work through
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everything. And because these guys are my friends, you know, the superintendent's a good friend of
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mine. We've worked together for almost a decade and I didn't want to fight with them. They didn't
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want to fight with me. We wanted to resolve everything as quickly as possible. But as Jeremy
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would tell you, they started moving the goalposts and then it goes into this huge timeline of basically
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it came down to me or them telling me, Hey, you either stop praying or you lose your job.
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Hmm. Can you give us a little bit more insight into what was going on behind the scenes? Why do
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you think they decided to make this a thing, make this a big deal? Why do you think that they decided
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that this was contentious and that they were going to basically take this to court? You know, it's hard
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to figure that out. And much of that, they're going to have to answer for themselves on that. But
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there seems to be this kind of reigning thought, especially within the school districts right now,
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that if religion pops up on campus, they've got to stamp it out. Almost like it's a virus that's
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going to go get everybody sick of a new pandemic, if you will. And they've just got to stamp it out
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before it infects everybody. And I don't know that that's necessarily an intentional thing. I think
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a lot of times just they're so nervous about that because there's been so much controversy around
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the country, unnecessary controversy about it, that they just feel the need that I have to like,
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just shut it down. The interesting thing in coach's case is when they said, Hey, look,
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you're praying with the kids that needs to stop. He said, Okay, that was never my commitment to God
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in the first place. I'm happy to do it by myself. He stopped immediately. I was early on in September
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of 2015. He never prayed with the kids ever again. And it was not going to be a problem. We thought
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honestly, when this case started, you know, maybe three weeks and this case is over. Well, here we are
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seven and a half years later on the sixth round now of litigation at the Supreme Court of the United
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States. We're still going. Why did it extend? What happened past the three weeks that made it keep
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going? So coach asked, Look, I'll just go back to doing my thing of, you know, praying by myself
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at the 50 yard line. And they started saying a couple things. Well, number one, the this is
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going to take away from your job responsibilities. At least that's the argument that they made.
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Because, you know, taking a knee for 15, maybe 30 seconds in silent prayer will keep him from
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supervising the kids, at least is what they were saying. So I said, Well, is there a compromise we can
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come up to because we couldn't think of something with it. They said, Well, tell you what,
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you can go across the field, across the track, up two flights of stairs, across a practice field,
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inside the school building, down the hallway and into the janitor's office, and you can pray there.
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Well, that would take a lot more time and take away from the supervision.
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So clearly that narrative was not true. They just said also, you know, you go up the press box,
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and that way nobody will see you up there. Well, that's interesting, too, because you have to
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follow the same path, except you got to go outside the stadium, back down the sidewalk,
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across a catwalk. Then you got to clear everybody out of the press box.
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And then there's these giant windows up there, too, that everybody can see. So that clearly wasn't
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a problem, either. They just simply didn't want it on the field. And then they started saying,
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Well, we recognize that, and this is their words, that your prayer was fleeting, and it was getting
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closer to whatever it was that they wanted. But still, they could see you. And because they could
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see you, the students could see him engaged in that. And he's wearing a shirt much like he's wearing
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right now with the Bremerton logo on it, and they know he's an authority figure. Well, that's an
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establishment, that's coercion that would violate the establishment clause.
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Of the First Amendment. Well, that's not true, but that's the argument they came back with here.
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So there was really no more room for compromise. It was either he stopped entirely or violate the
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Constitution, according to the school district. And so we were at an impasse, something we thought
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would be very reasonable compromise. You know, he got a 50-yard line that's 50 yards wide. He could do
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it anywhere on there. But because they could see him engaged in demonstrative religious activity,
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they said, that was enough to violate the Constitution. So now, seven and a half years
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I saw an argument being made from the other side saying, you know, this isn't just about his
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constitutional right. This is about impressionable students and the way that he is affecting
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impressionable students, which is hilarious considering the conversation surrounding some
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legislation in places like Florida. Impressionable students apparently are being coerced into,
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I don't know, your religious activity by seeing you pray. I guess that's the argument that's being
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made. What has been the, what's been the history? Why is this still going on? And why are you now at
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I find that argument fascinating coming from a school.
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Because a school is in, is charged with teaching. Right. And so if they're concerned about him,
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you know, engage in a personal activity that could be violating, well, they have the opportunity to
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educate the audience. And if they, if the school district can't educate the audience as to his
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civil rights, one's got to wonder if they can teach anything at all within the school district here.
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So they could have, they could have put a sign up, they could have made an announcement,
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and they could have done any number of things to explain what was going on. Instead,
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they chose to fire coach for taking 15 to 30 seconds on a knee in silent prayer after the game at the
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50 yard line. And the danger now has become that the Ninth Circuit adopted their reasoning on this
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whole thing. And so the basic standard for the Ninth Circuit now is that if you're engaged in
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demonstrative religious activity as a teacher or a coach within the public schools, you could be
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terminated from your job like Coach Kennedy has been. So what does that mean in practicality? Well,
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the ramifications of this are huge. If a teacher were to, for instance, say grace over her lunch in the
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cafeteria and students can see that person engaged in that demonstrative religious activity, well,
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that could be grounds for termination. Well, what about the teacher who wears a yarmulke or a hijab or
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a crucifix around their neck while teaching? All of those things are outward displays of religion.
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Those are private acts of worship. Some are required by their faith even. Those could be grounds for
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his termination. Now the school district will say, no, no, those are different. Well,
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tell me how. Those are exactly the same scenarios. One happens to be, you know, on a knee like you're
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tying your shoes, but you're praying. And so where would this will go? I mean, it has huge ramifications
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for teachers and coaches across the country. Think about coaches that, you know, you have a
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quarterback that goes down in the middle of the game and maybe they've got a torn ACL and that kid's
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future is just ruined right there. And the coach bows his head just a little too long. Is that going to be
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enough for that coach to be terminated just because he's engaged in demonstrative, praying that this
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kid's future is not ruined? I mean, that's not the country that we've grown up in. No one should
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be fired from their job for having to choose between their faith and their livelihood.
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Didn't a student group at one point invite the Seattle Satanists to one of the games? Is that
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That's somewhat true. There was a teacher that was involved with that. And I know the kid,
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great kid. He was a student body president and we have talked many, many times and he thought it was
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going to be a big, you know, good versus evil kind of thing. And it would defuse everything. That was
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his plan. But the teacher who was involved in it was one of the ones that was the organizer and
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participated in it. And it was quite a spectacle. It was ridiculous. I was just hoping that they would
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actually come in and buy a ticket and maybe some hot dogs because all that money goes to our
00:21:28.600
Yeah. So you thought that maybe it would turn out to be something that actually benefited the
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I would have been perfect. If they could have sat right beside me, I would have been all right.
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Hey, maybe they would have been, if they're impressionable, maybe they would have been
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You never know. You never know. All right. Before I get into what you think is going to happen
00:21:47.920
in the Supreme Court, I know that the conservative justices issued some kind of statement
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saying that they were concerned about your First Amendment rights. I just want to hear
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from you personally how this has impacted your faith. I'm sure that it is not the outcome that
00:22:04.840
you thought was going to come about when you took this job in 2008, even when there was that covenant
00:22:11.820
in your words with God where you said that you were going to live out your faith and give him glory.
00:22:16.060
Surely you didn't think that it was going to be this challenging, correct?
00:22:23.960
Yes. And so just tell me kind of what it's been like for you and your family emotionally and spiritually.
00:22:30.240
I would say the first, probably first couple of years was the worst. Definitely the first,
00:22:35.880
probably six months. I thought my wife and I were not going to make it. It's a little known fact
00:22:41.660
that she worked for the school district that we're suing. And not only did she work there,
00:22:47.180
she was the HR director for the school district. So you can imagine the friction that caused.
00:22:52.220
And I was a new believer and I had absolutely no way of being able to tell her why I had to do what
00:23:05.700
No, no, not at all. She thought I was, you know, and of course she blames herself and she's like,
00:23:10.400
I'm a bad wife because I'm mad at my husband. I'm a bad Christian because I'm mad at God.
00:23:15.720
And she's mad at herself because she can't be a good employee because she would normally handle
00:23:20.040
all of these issues. And it was just a perfect storm for us. And I thought we were actually,
00:23:27.660
we couldn't talk. You'd come home and say, Hey, how was your day? No, not that. I mean,
00:23:33.720
what do you talk about? There's a giant, you know, not even an elephant. It's a trinosaurus in the
00:23:39.060
middle of the room. And it was so awkward and it was great how God showed up at that. I was about
00:23:45.720
ready to leave and she was crying on the bed. I was at my wits end because I didn't know how to
00:23:51.160
deal with any of this. And I'm hurting the person that I love the most. And I was walking out of the
00:23:56.720
room and I got a text message and I'm like, who in the heck is calling me at this time? And as I
00:24:02.500
walked out, I clicked it and it was a video. It was the coach from Facing the Giants. And he said,
00:24:10.700
I understand that you're having some hard times. And let me tell you, I almost fell down the stairs.
00:24:15.620
I broke our railing off and my wife comes running out. And she's like, she goes, are you okay? And
00:24:20.400
I hand her my phone and she goes, okay, well, you know, trying to help me up. And I couldn't,
00:24:24.440
I couldn't, what's wrong? And I just kept pointing to my phone. And then she looked at it and she sat
00:24:28.860
down and she hit play and we sat there and bawled our eyes out. And that solidified our relationship,
00:24:35.140
especially with God. He became the center of our relationship. Before it was always, God was always
00:24:41.200
part of it and we were individual parts, but that totally solidified it. After that, it became a lot
00:24:49.220
easier as far as my relationship with God and with my family. It made it all worth it that, you know,
00:24:56.540
we went through the hard time together, but it has been a long drawn out battle. Seven years is
00:25:02.240
longer than anybody should have to, you know, go through one of these things. I thought it was
00:25:07.760
going to be like law and order where something happens one day, you're in court the next day.
00:25:12.160
And then the next day you're back doing what you love. When they said it was going to be a three week
00:25:16.660
project, I was like, whoa, whoa, whoa. No, we're in the middle of the football season. We only have four
00:25:22.220
games left. I can't wait three weeks to get back on the field. So I really thought we could all work
00:25:27.620
it out into, you know, especially the first week. And I thought we were all on the same sheet of music
00:25:32.500
and I tried to abide by everything because I have no hard feelings towards them. And the superintendent
00:25:40.040
doesn't have any hard feelings towards me. It's the law. I always blame the lawyers, of course.
00:25:47.520
Yeah. Can't live with them. Can't live without them, I guess.
00:25:52.440
Yeah. So tell us, tell us about, I know you already did a little bit, but tell us about the
00:25:58.920
most recent iterations and the most recent events on this timeline and what you were expecting as
00:26:08.400
Yeah. And it's probably best to start with actually looking back in history because it's come full
00:26:12.040
circle now because the school district is now arguing, and this is clearly the attorneys that
00:26:16.380
they've adopted for the appeal that are making this argument that he was coercing kids into prayer.
00:26:20.900
Well, that's demonstrably false. I mean, if you go to coachkennedyfact.com, you can read these for
00:26:25.020
yourselves. On October 21st, so this is a week before he's suspended, the superintendent sends an
00:26:30.540
email to the head director of schools in the state of Washington. And in that email, he says, this has
00:26:34.400
changed from, this case has shifted from becoming a case about a coach praying with the athletes
00:26:39.180
to a coach praying by himself at the 50-yard line. Five days later, he would take his last knee after
00:26:45.920
the JV game on October 26th. Two days later, he's suspended. And on the day they suspend him,
00:26:52.680
they put a Q&A out on the website and they said, you know, we've done this whole investigation.
00:26:56.900
There is indeed no evidence that any student was coerced into praying with the coach at all.
00:27:01.760
And yet they continue to maintain to the Supreme Court that he's engaged in coercing these students.
00:27:07.100
Their hashtag is pray to play, which is just simply false. Number one, he didn't have any
00:27:11.480
time. He didn't control. I know. I mean, I know it's speculation and maybe you can't say, but
00:27:19.020
is it just, do you think it's ideological for them, their motivations? What's in it for them?
00:27:25.340
Well, I think the school district has pure motives. They're just trying to figure it out.
00:27:28.620
But I do think the attorneys, I think may have a different agenda on things. And I don't like to
00:27:34.540
cast aspersions too much on what that may be, but their arguments here justify reality,
00:27:39.420
if that makes some sense. And so I think the Supreme Court's going to, the Supreme Court's no
00:27:43.480
fools. I mean, they've got good justices, their clerks are top notch. They're going to look into
00:27:47.700
the record and the record is very clear how coach stopped praying with the kids when he's asked to
00:27:52.660
stop praying with the kids. And they refuse to allow him to continue the practice of just by
00:27:57.200
himself for 15 to 30 seconds, taking a knee in private prayer at the 50 yard line. There should be no
00:28:02.880
major concern about that whatsoever in this nation that values the free exercise of religion.
00:28:07.700
And yet they've denied that to him time and time again, even though they said it was, quote,
00:28:11.780
fleeting that he was engaged in that kind of activity. And so to deny him that entirely and
00:28:16.800
to make him choose between the job that he loves and his faith, well, no American should have to make
00:28:23.840
that decision. I hope, and again, it's a bit of a fool's errand to try to handicap the Supreme Court
00:28:29.080
of the United States. But I would hope that the justices, even the liberal ones, would understand
00:28:33.680
that important principle. Because what happens to Coach Kennedy, look, at the end of the day,
00:28:38.420
I just want him back on the field with his kids. And if that's the only decision, great. But if it
00:28:41.940
goes beyond that, if the standard is that if you engage in any kind of religion in the public square,
00:28:47.900
your employer can fire you. Well, the promise of the First Amendment is all but dead.
00:28:52.300
And it seems to me, from my perspective, that Christians are held to a higher standard. You
00:29:01.740
mentioned if someone is wearing a hijab, if someone is wearing any kind of outward expression
00:29:07.140
of their faith, is that going to be considered an act of worship that is a fireable offense? It
00:29:13.220
doesn't seem that that is the standard that's applied across the board. It seems like there seems
00:29:18.300
to be a higher standard for Christians engaging in prayer. Maybe that's my personal bias.
00:29:23.520
Well, it's interesting you say that. And I'm sorry to interrupt, but one of the judges in the
00:29:27.880
Ninth Circuit wrote this entire opinion. And it was an unfortunate narration. Let's put it that way.
00:29:34.560
But at the very end of it, after criticizing him for his free exercise rights, and even for talking
00:29:38.560
to the media, which I thought was kind of interesting, he kind of commits the First Amendment
00:29:41.160
trifecta, violates the Establishment Clause, violates the Free Speech Clause, and violates the
00:29:45.120
people, you know, the freedom of the press, all in the same act. So it was kind of crazy.
00:29:50.620
But if being a bad citizen is not bad enough, according to this judge, at the very end of
00:29:54.940
it, he says, you know, as I read the Bible, we're not supposed to go out in public and pray.
00:29:59.260
We're supposed to go into our prayer closet. Now, think about that for a second. This is
00:30:04.300
That is basically declaring that Coach is a bad Christian. Well, that actually is an Establishment
00:30:08.740
Clause violation. That is actually telling him how he should or should not behave according
00:30:11.660
to his religious beliefs. And yet the irony is lost entirely upon the other side, that
00:30:17.640
a federal circuit judge would declare him basically to be a bad Christian. He knows that by himself.
00:30:23.420
Trying to love God and love others, we fail at that every day. But I mean, we don't need
00:30:27.180
a federal judge to tell you that you're a bad Christian or not.
00:30:29.600
Right. That has no bearing, should have no bearing. And of course, that is theologically
00:30:34.620
misleading because the point of that passage is not really about where we are praying, but the posture
00:30:40.540
of our heart when we're praying. It's about Pharisees wanting the glory, which is not why
00:30:45.320
you were praying. You weren't praying to be seen. You weren't praying to be celebrated.
00:30:49.520
You were praying because that is what Christians do. That's what we're called to pray without ceasing.
00:30:54.240
And being thankful. Yeah. I think that's in the Bible somewhere.
00:30:56.860
Yeah, I think so too. And so, you know, it reminds me so much of what the lawyers argued
00:31:03.020
in Jack Phillips's case when they compared him to, when they compared his actions to
00:31:10.440
Genghis Khan and all the rest. Yes. Racism and Nazism and discrimination against people. They're
00:31:17.040
making these theological moral statements beyond legal statements, which really does reveal kind
00:31:23.440
of an ideological motivation, which I think is really frightening. And again, should be frightening
00:31:27.900
for people, no matter their political affiliation, no matter their religious affiliation, when you
00:31:32.860
think about the possible implications of that for people's expression of religion or lack of expression
00:31:38.420
of religion. So what do you, what do you anticipate is going to happen? When do you anticipate this
00:31:44.100
decision? So we're going to have the argument on April 25th at the Supreme Court of the United States
00:31:47.980
that's coming right up. And then by the end of June, we should have a decision. Wow. You know,
00:31:51.840
there's a case back in the 1960s, very famous case called Tinker v. Des Moines. It's the student armband
00:31:55.900
case protesting the Vietnam War. And the court said that it's been the unmistakable holding on
00:32:00.480
that court for well over 60 years that neither students nor teachers must shed their constitutional
00:32:04.780
rights when they walk through the schoolhouse gates. That case dealt with students. And so we
00:32:09.220
know that students don't have to shed their constitutional rights when they go through
00:32:12.100
the schoolhouse gates. This case really could answer the second part of that, which really never
00:32:15.780
has been well answered by the court. Must teachers, must coaches shed their constitutional rights
00:32:20.860
when they go through the schoolhouse gates? How many of them must they shed? In what way do they have to
00:32:24.820
shed them? Does the state own all of Coach Kennedy's speech just because he wears a Bremerton
00:32:29.820
Knights t-shirt or a polo shirt? So if he's at Cracker Barrel and he says grace over his meal
00:32:34.640
and the student is sitting across the way and sees that, is that an exceptional clause violation?
00:32:38.140
I should hardly think so. But we're going to find out just how many constitutional rights
00:32:42.400
our public employees have when they walk through the schoolhouse gates by this case.
00:32:46.300
Yeah. And what is your prayer, your hope, your thought process right now?
00:32:50.060
Oh, it's been what it is from the beginning that I just want to coach high school football,
00:32:55.940
you know, and I want to be able to thank God afterwards. I mean, to me, it's not a big ask.
00:33:01.240
And it seems weird it's going to the Supreme Court just to ask to do something so simple and has been
00:33:06.780
part of my life for, you know, decades. So yeah, hopefully we will have a win and put my faith in
00:33:14.640
God. He's got all this and the justice system that, you know, the Supreme Court will actually
00:33:21.100
rule on the facts instead of their own made up stories.
00:33:25.700
And in addition to praying, is there anything my audience can do to offer support, to help?
00:33:31.740
They can go to firstliberty.org. They can actually send a note of support to Coach Kennedy through
00:33:36.540
that website. He reads those. He loves those when they get those things come through. But also,
00:33:41.220
I mean, go to coachkennedyfacts.com, which is a part of our website anyway, but tell the story to
00:33:46.680
everybody else around you. Share the, share the videos that are on that page that tells his whole
00:33:50.400
story. Coach has a very fascinating story that we've just barely scratched the surface of. I mean,
00:33:54.420
adopted kid kind of goes into foster care through most of his life, starts living on his own at the
00:33:58.920
age of 15, goes in the Marine Corps, serves our country, which is probably the most painful irony
00:34:04.320
here is that here he fought for the freedoms that he's been denied. And it's just, it's just
00:34:09.120
terrible. So firstliberty.org, coachkennedyfacts.com will get you more information about Coach.
00:34:13.880
But actually you are fighting for our freedoms now in a different way. And so it's not necessarily
00:34:19.800
on the same front lines that you were before, but by simply expressing your faith in a way that was
00:34:26.100
obedient to God, you are still to this day fighting for the freedoms that you fought for
00:34:30.680
when you were actually a service member. So thank you for that. Thank you for your courage.
00:34:35.580
I know it's not a battle that you meant to engage in, but you did for such a time as this,
00:34:41.800
and I'm thankful for it. I'm thankful for what you guys do as well. Gosh, we need, we need,
00:34:47.440
I know lawyers, they can be a pain, but we need good ones, right?
00:34:52.080
Yeah, that fight for freedom. So thank you guys so much. And I do encourage people,
00:34:56.500
my audience is a very encouraging, supportive audience. So I know that you're going to get a
00:35:00.300
ton of messages, kind messages from them and prayers. Absolutely.
00:35:03.960
Thank you guys so much for taking the time to come on. Thank you so much.