Relatable with Allie Beth Stuckey - Ep 608 ｜ Should Christians Trust Elon Musk？

00:00:00.000 Hey guys, welcome to Relatable. Happy Thursday. This episode is brought to you by our friends

00:00:04.320 at Good Ranchers. Go to GoodRanchers.com slash Allie. That's GoodRanchers.com slash Allie.

00:00:18.420 Okay, guys, I have so much to talk about today because I've been out of town this week and the

00:00:24.600 excellent interviews that you heard over the past three days were pre-recorded,

00:00:29.360 which means I haven't really been able to react to any of the news that has gone on in the last

00:00:33.680 few days. And so, as you can imagine, I have a lot to say. But don't sleep on the interviews that we

00:00:41.860 did this week because they were really good. Go back, listen to Mondays. That was Coach Kennedy.

00:00:46.180 He's the guy in the center of the case that is being heard right now by the Supreme Court about

00:00:51.500 praying in public schools. It wasn't even while school was going on. It was before and after

00:00:58.340 football game. It's crazy conversation. Do not listen to what Sharon says so says about this

00:01:04.700 case. If you follow her, she's had a lot of snark and a lot of bias, which I personally believe she

00:01:10.600 always has and does. But in particular about that case, go listen at least to the other side of it.

00:01:16.620 At least go listen to what he has to say, which, of course, that's going to come with its own bias.

00:01:21.200 But you should have a well-rounded perspective of what's going on. And that does affect religious

00:01:25.840 liberty for the rest of us, especially when it comes to coaches and teachers. So, go back and

00:01:30.720 listen to Monday's episode about that. And then Tuesday's episode, we were with Mr. Bob Woodson of

00:01:37.540 the Woodson Center. There were some controversial things said in that conversation. Whenever you're

00:01:42.880 talking about race and we're talking about communities that we are told have problems that

00:01:48.900 are only caused by white supremacy and systemic racism, whenever you have conversations about agency

00:01:54.500 or responsibility or other solutions to problems that these communities are facing, you're going

00:01:59.520 to get some backlash. But Mr. Bob Woodson has been in this space for a very long time. And so,

00:02:06.020 definitely go listen to Tuesday's conversation, which was excellent because he's just a brilliant

00:02:10.660 person whom I love and have learned a lot from. And then yesterday, we finally addressed some of the

00:02:16.240 controversy surrounding John MacArthur and his church, Grace Community Church. We're talking about

00:02:22.040 something that happened all the way back in 2004 that is really only now in the last couple of

00:02:27.640 months being talked about. And we talked about what is true, what is not. There are many details

00:02:33.080 that we don't know. And you guys have actually filled me in on some things that you guys learned

00:02:38.700 about John MacArthur and the church and how that was dealt with, some of the things that we still don't

00:02:45.500 know some of the details that have been filled in. There have been other people, other hosts,

00:02:52.380 there have been some YouTubers who have talked about this, who have really dug into a lot of

00:02:56.220 research. John Harris is one who has talked extensively about this. I kind of just gave my

00:03:02.700 brief overview in saying I don't think that this is something that should be dismissed. Any kind of

00:03:08.220 allegation and when we're talking about abuse and how we lovingly deal with victims of abuse should

00:03:15.560 be handled seriously and talked about in a way that I think is very reverent. I think that a lot of

00:03:20.800 people on the reformed side missed the ball when it came to that. And then, yeah, on the other end,

00:03:27.640 though, we can't just assume things, bad things about pastors that you don't politically agree with.

00:03:33.120 So there's more to be said about that. Maybe we'll talk more about that. We also talked a little bit

00:03:37.080 about the Hillsong documentary yesterday, and we also talked about some of the drama that's going

00:03:42.780 on in the Southern Baptist Convention. So again, go listen to that episode if you have not already.

00:03:49.560 All right. And then today, I just want to react to some of the things that have happened this week.

00:03:54.780 We're going to talk about Elon Musk buying Twitter. I won't bore you with the same takes that you've

00:03:59.840 heard over and over again from very smart analysts and wonderful analysts, but it's just been talked about

00:04:05.180 so much. But I'll just give you a little bit of a reaction on that. And then I'll talk about Melissa

00:04:09.200 Lucio and her execution being stayed woman in the state of Texas who was convicted of murdering her 0.99

00:04:14.600 two-year-old daughter. You guys know I have things to say about that. And then we are going to talk

00:04:21.240 about perhaps a couple other things that are going on. It just kind of depends on where we are time-wise

00:04:27.640 after those two things. So first, let me just give you, let me give you a reaction of Elon Musk

00:04:35.100 buying Twitter and what I think about that. Obviously, I think it's a good thing. And this is

00:04:40.560 not. Let me give you the, let me respond to something specifically that I'm hearing from

00:04:45.340 conservative Christians that I haven't heard a lot of people address. When I posted about it,

00:04:50.200 when I posted about Elon Musk buying Twitter and thinking that it was a good thing on Instagram,

00:04:55.040 I got some comments from some of you who are concerned. You're concerned because you don't

00:04:59.980 trust Elon. He is a part of this elite class of people. Obviously, he's the richest person in the

00:05:04.980 world. He has probably done some work with the World Economic Forum that we know is the author of

00:05:11.000 this ESG Great Reset World. But he has also spoken out against ESG. So let me just give him that point

00:05:19.180 there. But there's concerns about his elitism. He has talked about, you know, putting microchips

00:05:24.840 into people's brains. That is actually something that he has talked about in the past. And as far

00:05:29.740 as we know, he doesn't have any kind of God-centered worldview, or at least that we have seen. And so

00:05:37.800 there are some concerns about how his secular ideology could affect Twitter and some people

00:05:44.400 saying, you know, you shouldn't be looking at Elon Musk as some kind of savior. Here's what I'll say

00:05:49.600 to all of that. I still think Elon Musk buying Twitter is better than the alternative. Like you

00:05:55.880 realize that the people running Twitter before were godless progressives, right? And so now we have

00:06:01.860 someone who is a secular libertarian, who does not, that means that he doesn't agree with everything,

00:06:08.760 obviously, that we say as Christian conservatives. But at least he sets a higher premium on free speech,

00:06:19.720 on not discriminating against people because of their political or religious positions that are

00:06:26.280 articulated on social media. I don't think that anyone has seen Elon Musk as the savior of Western

00:06:33.040 civilization, the savior of democracy or free speech. But look, there are a lot of people who

00:06:40.120 we wouldn't expect to play an integral and positive role in protecting our freedoms that do. People that

00:06:50.520 we don't regard as moral exemplars, we don't regard as some kind of Christ-like example of how we should

00:06:56.220 live that are nevertheless to be respected in the role that they play in protecting things like free

00:07:04.180 speech. Donald Trump is one of those people. I think we would all acknowledge he doesn't have the

00:07:10.160 same worldview that you and I do in a lot of ways. I don't think that he has the same regard for the

00:07:16.780 inerrancy of scripture or human beings being made in the image of God or the sanctity of marriage

00:07:23.100 and of human sexuality that we do. He certainly doesn't agree with us on a lot of things morally

00:07:29.120 and theologically. And yet, I think we would argue, at least those of us who voted for Trump,

00:07:34.660 that he played an important role in helping the country policy-wise. And so I think the same can be

00:07:41.540 said of Elon Musk. There's a lot of things that he has said. There's a lot of things that he has

00:07:45.440 probably done that we don't agree with, that we don't like. We don't look to him as our savior.

00:07:50.740 That's not the role that he's playing here. He's buying Twitter. There are a lot more

00:07:54.940 consequential things, honestly, going on in the world than that. But it's an important thing

00:07:59.640 because I think that it protects this very crucial aspect of democracy. When I say democracy,

00:08:10.640 I truly mean the will of the people. I'm not talking about what leftists mean when they say

00:08:17.560 democracy, which is basically whatever they like, no matter how authoritarian it is.

00:08:22.200 He is protecting public dialogue. He is protecting the free exchange of ideas.

00:08:28.780 Do I think that this is going to be a difficult task, though, for him? Yes. I don't think that it's

00:08:33.280 going to suddenly be, wow, Twitter is this wonderful, awesome place. Because look, let's just put

00:08:38.360 something out there. Censorship, if you want to call it that, of some sort, is actually necessary.

00:08:44.060 It's necessary because we do not want all speech on that platform. We don't. Do you want child

00:08:49.680 pornography on Twitter? No. I don't think there should be any pornography on Twitter. There is,

00:08:56.580 unfortunately, that is something that is allowed on Twitter. But do you want child exploitation on

00:09:01.760 there? Do you want doxing to be allowed? Do you want there to be? And I don't know the question

00:09:08.720 necessarily or the answer to this question necessarily for everyone. But if there are truly

00:09:13.620 targeted campaigns of harassment, pushing someone to commit suicide or something like that, someone

00:09:21.980 say they create 100 accounts and a bunch of anonymous people go after one person because of

00:09:27.400 some kind of characteristic and push them to hurt themselves. Like, do you think that should be

00:09:31.660 allowed? Look, censorship of some sort is necessary for the platform to be a place where people can go

00:09:41.080 safely. And when I say safely, I'm talking about literal safety. Like, I'm talking about literal

00:09:47.380 physical safety. So I don't think doxing should be allowed. I don't think those kinds of harassment

00:09:51.740 campaigns should be allowed. I'm not talking about someone being ratioed or being criticized because of

00:09:57.680 something that they have. I'm not even talking about someone saying something mean to someone

00:10:01.200 that they should be kicked off. But like, I do think that you have to look at like what is actually

00:10:08.280 harmful, actually harmful, not the left wing ideological idea of harmful, which is that

00:10:14.680 saying that a man is a man is harmful and pushes people towards suicide. That's just a manipulation

00:10:20.020 ideological tactic. That's not real. That's just something that they say to silence people whose ideas

00:10:26.820 and words that they don't like. And so I think Elon Musk, though, I do think he's up to the task.

00:10:32.660 He's already talked about the fact that when he says free speech, he is saying that he doesn't

00:10:38.200 want to censor things that are not protected under the law. So, of course, that means that there will be

00:10:43.700 censorship of things like child sex abuse material. And hopefully that there would be censorship of

00:10:49.860 things like doxing someone, posting private information about a person. But there should not.

00:10:54.780 I think no matter what the law says, but of course, you know, there's conversations about that.

00:11:00.900 There should not be any punishment for someone saying that a man is a man.

00:11:04.940 As Joe Rogan has brought up, you are then contradicting biology, which makes it ideology.

00:11:12.040 And so censoring someone based on their ideological position or just their real position when it comes

00:11:18.340 to what a man is or what a woman is, that's wrong. And I think Elon Musk understands that. 1.00

00:11:23.280 Jack, who used to run Twitter, he recently stepped down. He has said he has endorsed Elon Musk on

00:11:31.180 Twitter and said that he believes that Elon Musk is the singular solution for this. And since Elon

00:11:37.780 Musk bought Twitter, there seems to be already some algorithm changes. There are accounts that

00:11:42.480 have now gained thousands, tens of thousands, in some cases, hundreds of thousands of followers

00:11:46.920 that have their account, their follower account has been stalled for a long time. I honestly don't

00:11:52.760 spend that much time on Twitter. So I have gained some followers in the past couple of days, but I

00:11:57.700 really don't care. I don't I don't really notice that kind of thing because I'm just not on Twitter

00:12:01.740 quite as much. But changes seem to be afoot. Positive changes seem to be afoot. But it's not going to be

00:12:07.520 as straightforward and as easy, I think, as a lot of people who are just saying free speech are saying

00:12:13.280 there is some speech that you don't want on platforms. There is such thing as real actual

00:12:19.260 harm. There are real actual threats. There are some things that simply shouldn't be able to circulate

00:12:25.440 some things. The question has always been who gets to define that? Who gets to define harm? And so far,

00:12:33.280 because Twitter is run by left wing ideologues, according to Vox, the donations of the

00:12:41.440 of the employees, more than 98 percent went to Democrats. And so like we know the ideology of

00:12:49.660 those of those of those employees. So the question is, who gets to decide what harm means? Who gets to

00:12:56.240 decide what speech should actually be circulating? You can't not take anything off of the platform. So

00:13:04.460 it's going to be tricky. It's going to be a little complex, but I am very positive about it. I am very

00:13:11.140 positive about it. I think that this is a good thing. I think it's good that we have someone who

00:13:15.920 is more I'm not a libertarian, but more libertarian minded is taking this over. He's already said,

00:13:22.080 for example, it was incredibly inappropriate for Twitter to suspend the account of the New York

00:13:26.820 Post when they published a factual story, a factual story about Hunter Biden right before the election.

00:13:33.360 That was incredibly inappropriate. There are lots of things shadow banning that Twitter does.

00:13:38.020 Oh, my gosh. There was this crazy clip of Ari Mebler. I think that's his name

00:13:43.020 on Twitter. And I just thought of this. So I don't have it right in front of me. But he was on MSNBC

00:13:49.900 and he was talking about, oh, the scary things that might happen if if Elon Musk, when Elon Musk

00:13:57.700 takes over Twitter and he says, you know, it might be something where secretly you'd never know.

00:14:04.180 But the algorithms will just inhibit the reach, turn down the reach of some people of some

00:14:09.320 political persuasion or might try to limit the reach of a particular candidate that they don't

00:14:15.920 like. You might never know that the algorithms are working against you as a progressive person

00:14:20.960 on Twitter. That's the scary part that we are facing right now. If Elon Musk takes over Twitter

00:14:27.300 and it's hilarious because that's what conservatives have been saying are happening for literally years.

00:14:34.720 And the left has just laughed at us and said, that's a conspiracy theory. There's no such thing

00:14:38.700 as shadow banning. There's no such thing as any kind of like algorithmic bias that's happening behind

00:14:44.900 the scenes. You're just terrible. It has nothing to do with the ideology of people of people at Twitter. 0.97

00:14:52.140 And now they're saying the same things. Oh, my gosh. I mean, there's just like the crazy, crazy reactions

00:14:59.920 to people over this. Let me read you some some of those reactions. One of them is by someone named Tim

00:15:07.920 Wise, and he articulates something that I've heard in a variety of ways on Twitter from these left

00:15:15.780 wingers who are so worried about this. He's some kind of blue checkmark. I don't know who he is.

00:15:19.120 He says, F Elon Musk, apartheid baby, you, your company and everyone who stands for you. I'm saying 1.00

00:15:26.160 this on your platform now and we'll keep saying it. Let's see how committed you are to free speech

00:15:29.980 when we start roasting your ASS. Well, he has already said Elon Musk said that he hopes that all 0.99

00:15:37.740 of his even his greatest enemies that they would stay on the platform because that's what free speech

00:15:41.740 is about, which I think is a good sign. And but this is something that I keep seeing apartheid baby. 1.00

00:15:46.320 OK, so because he was like alive in South Africa during the apartheid, like he had something to do

00:15:52.360 with it because he happens to be white. I mean, that's kind of racist. And it's you know what?

00:15:56.820 It's very derogatory to say to the first African-American leader of Twitter. I don't know.

00:16:04.020 Maybe these people are a little discriminatory. And then he also goes on to say, I mean, I mean this

00:16:09.400 in the real sense, I am not trying to belittle mental health, but this is a psychopathic thing

00:16:14.900 to say. Literally, we're going to have to deal with Nazis the way our grandparents did because

00:16:19.740 Elon Musk is going to let them say whatever they want in the name of free speech. Oh, was that the

00:16:23.920 problem with the Nazis, Tim Wise? They were saying things that hurt people's feelings. Is that is that

00:16:30.200 why America fought the Nazis? Because they were because of free speech? You absolute idiot. I think

00:16:36.940 it's OK for me to say that. Oh, and then I OK, I do want to I do want to bring this up because a lot

00:16:42.020 of people are falling for this and I fell for this, too. So there is this person named Richard

00:16:46.280 Hannah, Hannah Nia, who said it's funny. He said Elon Musk takes over Twitter. He's a billionaire

00:16:53.980 who doesn't even have a master's degree. Is that who we are going to trust with the future of our

00:16:58.200 democracy? And I mean, it just got ratio ratioed into oblivion. And I think I quote tweeted it for a

00:17:03.380 second and and said something, you know, along the lines of this is ridiculous. And then I started 0.84

00:17:08.180 looking at the replies that he was giving to people and I was like, oh, he's trolling. But I

00:17:12.900 feel like almost no conservative realized that he was trolling because in our defense, people actually

00:17:19.080 say stuff like this. The left is so obsessed with superficial credentialism. They use the argument

00:17:24.920 from authority fallacy. Any chance that they can get, oh, you don't know what a woman is. You're not 1.00

00:17:29.480 a biologist. Of course, if a biologist does disagree with them on what a woman is, they would 0.97

00:17:35.100 dismiss them out of hand, too. But that's how they kind of gatekeep just like basic observable

00:17:40.420 logic. And they say, oh, you can't know something unless you have this particular credential.

00:17:45.060 So it would seem that this person was being serious. But if you look at the replies, it's

00:17:49.820 obvious that he is he really is just trolling. So if you happen to see that and you thought that

00:17:55.000 it was serious, it's not serious. He was just joking about that. But a lot of leftists, I

00:17:59.600 think, actually think that way. I mean, this almost had when I was looking at it, it almost

00:18:03.500 had 10,000 likes. And so either that's by people who knew that he was joking or by people who

00:18:09.240 actually thought, yeah, you really do need a master's degree in order to run Twitter.

00:18:15.040 A lot of people, unfortunately, think that way.

00:18:18.200 Um, and apparently so like there's some leaked audio coming from employees of Twitter who

00:18:23.780 are literally in tears over this. And Robert Reich, who is also just a crazy person, he

00:18:31.420 wrote this article saying that just like authoritarians and this is not satire, this is not satire. 0.68

00:18:40.620 There's no irony because irony is always lost on leftists. He said that just like authoritarians,

00:18:47.360 Yes. Um, Elon Musk is a free speech absolutist.

00:18:52.320 Yes. Yes, Robert, that is exactly correct. You are, you are right. The Chinese Communist Party is

00:18:59.360 known for their free and wild internet access, promotion of free and wild internet access.

00:19:04.540 They don't have any kind of restrictions in these kind of dictatorial companies on,

00:19:11.140 or countries on what people can access on the internet. You're absolutely right.

00:19:15.280 Like every dictatorship, one of the characteristics is that they restrict the flow of information.

00:19:23.280 They restrict people's right to free speech. They don't believe in a right to free speech.

00:19:27.440 They restrict dissent. They push down narratives or they push down ideas. They push down words

00:19:33.500 and thoughts that they don't like. Have you never read 1984? Was Big Brother known for everything that

00:19:38.800 he allowed people to say and to see and to read? No, it was known by memory holding certain information,

00:19:46.660 certain news stories. So you couldn't even remember what happened the next day. All you knew

00:19:51.360 is what Big Brother was telling you that day, including how words changed and the definitions of,

00:19:57.900 um, the definitions of particular ideas and words were changed by the people who are in charge.

00:20:04.540 And because everything previously had been, uh, had been, um, memory hold, you weren't able to

00:20:11.140 even fully remember or argue against the new definition that you're being told. Of course,

00:20:16.120 the ministry of truth in 1984 is in charge of all of this. And the Biden administration

00:20:22.320 in, in congruence with a lot of these left-wing crazies on Twitter, they are setting up a form of

00:20:29.880 ministry of truth, I guess, to combat the free speech that will now be so frighteningly,

00:20:35.700 frighteningly allowed on places like Twitter. I'll get into that in just one second.

00:20:42.100 So the Biden administration has set up their own ministry of truth, the very Orwellian ministry of

00:20:48.400 truth, the disinformation governance board. Is that what it's called? Disinformation governance

00:20:55.680 board, where they're going to have a board of unelected people try to combat disinformation. 0.96

00:21:00.760 And actually, of course, we have already seen the White House admit through Jen Psaki that they

00:21:05.680 are frequently working with these tech organizations to try to combat disinformation. Obama has been

00:21:12.020 talking about this a lot over the past few days publicly about the problem of disinformation.

00:21:17.180 What do they mean by disinformation? What do they mean? They mean things that they don't like.

00:21:23.120 That's what they mean by democracy. They mean authoritarianism that they like. All the people

00:21:27.260 complaining about how being a free speech absolutist is somehow anti-democratic and somehow

00:21:33.860 fascist and authoritarianism. It's just wild. All those people complaining about that when it comes

00:21:38.720 to Elon Musk. Of course, I am sure support this disinformation governance board, which is an actual

00:21:44.880 form of authoritarianism, which is actually much more totalitarian, much more tyrannical and dictatorial

00:21:53.040 than anything that Donald Trump, anything that Ron DeSantis or Elon Musk has ever done.

00:21:58.520 So just remember that, that when the left talks about the importance of democracy, they usually

00:22:03.160 just mean authoritarianism that they like. And when they talk about authoritarianism, what they typically

00:22:08.820 mean is a form of democracy and free speech that they don't like. You see how they kind of they

00:22:14.420 they exchange those words without you even knowing? I mean, what they mean by a woman is also

00:22:18.760 a man. And so that's why it's so important in the conversations and the discussions and debates

00:22:23.700 that we have to define our terms. What do you mean by a woman? Do you also are you including the word 0.99

00:22:27.920 man in that? That's again goes back to what we've talked about, about when inclusion, unfettered inclusion

00:22:32.860 becomes toxic. What do you mean by democracy? Like, where are you getting that definition? That's how you

00:22:39.520 engage in these kinds of conversations. They're afraid of free speech because of what we've talked about

00:22:45.160 in the past. Obama, Biden, all progressives, they're afraid of free speech because progressivism,

00:22:52.180 their insidious ideology is like molds. And how it grows and how it takes over and how it devours

00:22:58.500 institutions and makes the people inside of the institution sick is by growing in the dark,

00:23:05.000 growing without your knowledge. And so when light is shined on it, when it's found out, that's a

00:23:11.080 problem. It's a problem for the mold. It's a problem for progressivism. It's allowed to grow.

00:23:16.440 It's allowed to grow in the dark. And so shining light on it, that's why they hate,

00:23:20.060 you know, Christopher Rufo. That's why they hate libs of TikTok. That's why they hate Elon Musk.

00:23:25.120 It's not really any kind of substantive or logical disagreement. It's not that they have,

00:23:30.440 they can't even like defend their positions. They don't even try to do that. They just try to threaten

00:23:35.060 these people and bully them and intimidate them because they don't want the roots of their ideology,

00:23:41.880 what's really going on, for example, with the gender and sexual indoctrination that we're seeing

00:23:47.060 of young people in school. They don't want that shown. They just want you to feel like none of

00:23:53.500 it's really happening. That's the problem that they have with free speech. And they also, they don't

00:23:58.840 argue very well. They're not very logical in their positions. And so if you have the ability to say,

00:24:04.900 well, you know, here's why a man is a man, or here's what abortion actually is,

00:24:10.120 then you're going, like, that's going to be a problem for them because it shows the weakness

00:24:14.620 of their position. And so that's what the freak out is all about. Yeah, I think that this is a

00:24:19.840 good thing. I don't, it's such a straw man to say, oh, Elon Musk is some Christian conservatives.

00:24:26.260 Elon Musk is not your savior. I don't see anyone saying that. I'm just saying that this is,

00:24:31.340 I think it's a good, a good indicator for where things go. And let me say, I said this in two

00:24:36.480 speeches over the weekend, or over the past few days. Let me just say that this all, so this all

00:24:43.600 started. Elon Musk buying Twitter started from the Babylon Bee making a joke, highlighting the fact

00:24:50.980 that a man cannot be a woman. That's how this all started. And so let me just, let's go back even 0.99

00:24:58.720 further. This huge thing that I think is going to be really good for free speech and democracy and

00:25:03.040 Western civilization. This all started from guys who started a satire account. They started a few

00:25:08.980 years ago. I know them. They're great guys. They're just regular guys. They started telling jokes. They

00:25:13.460 thought it was funny. It grew into this huge platform that ended up being, Elon Musk ended up

00:25:18.820 being a fan of them. It all started from those guys, those just Christian conservative guys saying

00:25:23.820 something that was true, saying something that was unpopular that, and then they got kicked off for

00:25:28.460 it. They got kicked off Twitter. I guess that caught the attention of the richest man in the world,

00:25:32.320 Elon Musk. And then he made a decision that really is going to change things, I think, for the better.

00:25:38.220 So keep that in mind. Keep that in mind when you are simply saying things that are true,

00:25:43.040 when you are raising a respectful ruckus, you don't know what flap of the butterfly wing you are.

00:25:47.580 All right. And speaking of talking about controversial things and saying things that

00:25:54.440 actually matter, I want to talk a little bit more about this Melissa Lucio thing. I know you've

00:25:58.580 heard me talk about it a lot, but I'm going to respond to some arguments, some other arguments

00:26:01.980 that I've been seeing and give you an update on what's going on there. All right. So you guys

00:26:08.620 probably heard I talked about it on Instagram that on Monday, the Texas Court of Criminal Appeals

00:26:14.100 found that several of Lucio's lawyers' claims needed to be considered by a trial court. So

00:26:19.680 that means that her execution was stayed. So this was an 11th hour stay for her. I believe that

00:26:29.120 her execution was originally scheduled on Wednesday. And if you have not listened to or watched the

00:26:35.380 debate that I had with Texas State Rep Jeff Leach on this, I encourage you to do so. He has really

00:26:42.420 been leading the charge against her execution. He has said multiple times that he believes her to

00:26:47.400 be innocent. Now he has kind of gone, you'll hear in the, in the conversation that we have, he will

00:26:53.800 then, you know, he'll kind of hedge and say that he doesn't know if she's innocent, but he has said

00:26:57.320 publicly many times that he believes that she is innocent. And in fact, the letter that he signed

00:27:03.220 along with, I believe it was 82 other state representatives arguing that she should not be executed,

00:27:09.640 said that this was a crime, that she is innocent, said that she's innocent, and that they also

00:27:16.620 believe, Jeff Leach has also mentioned that he believes that this is a crime that didn't actually

00:27:20.720 happen. And so her lawyers have been working on this for a very long time. As you guys already know,

00:27:28.940 they have tried to appeal her case several times. And the courts of appeal have said decisively,

00:27:35.580 actually, actually, you know what, we think that she got a fair trial. We think that she got a fair

00:27:39.880 trial from the beginning and that there's no reason to overturn her conviction or her sentencing.

00:27:45.560 But the Innocence Project has taken up her case, as they so often do, and has rallied people in the

00:27:52.000 media and has rallied people in the state legislature in Texas to try to get people to see from their

00:28:00.400 perspective that she is innocent. There was also a Hulu documentary, Melissa versus Texas,

00:28:06.360 where they argue that she was innocent, but they don't just say, hey, she's innocent of murdering

00:28:12.260 her child. And this is my big beef with all of this that I'll get into a little bit, is that they don't

00:28:18.480 just say that. They say that there was no history of abuse, that she didn't abuse her child, that she was

00:28:23.180 a good mom, but she just fell on hard times. And they tried to get us to see her as a victim of her 1.00

00:28:29.260 circumstances, as a victim of some kind of racist and classist prosecution, that she didn't get a

00:28:36.740 fair trial because she is a victim of sexual abuse. And she was coerced into her confession 0.98

00:28:42.020 by these investigators because she is a victim of sexual abuse. And the history of being a victim

00:28:48.500 of sexual abuse made her take responsibility for something that she didn't actually,

00:28:53.780 that she shouldn't have taken responsibility for. And they completely dismiss every other reason

00:28:58.940 the jury decided to convict her. They completely dismiss all of the other evidence. They make

00:29:05.380 arguments on emotion. They are appealing to your emotion by giving you pieces of information that

00:29:10.960 one, we don't actually know are true, like her history of sexual abuse, and two, that aren't really

00:29:16.700 pertinent to whether or not she murdered her child. And then they come up with all of these other

00:29:21.280 possible excuses that they just kind of plant into your head whether or not they're true. Well, that may be

00:29:28.940 Mariah, the daughter who was murdered by Melissa. Maybe she had some kind of, maybe she had some kind of

00:29:36.240 issue that caused her to bruise more easily. That's not actually proven to be true. Like, maybe one of her 0.79

00:29:42.460 siblings pushed her down the stairs. There's absolutely no evidence of that. Maybe, you know, maybe something

00:29:49.260 else happened that she didn't actually receive any abuse and the ER doctor and the coroner and the

00:29:58.120 paramedic, that they're all just colluding together in life. So there's all kinds of assumptions and

00:30:03.300 emotional arguments being made from that side. And that is my beef. Put aside for a second what you

00:30:09.220 think about execution. Put aside for a second what you think about the death penalty. Okay, we can have a

00:30:14.060 debate over that. Maybe you don't think that she should be executed because you don't believe people

00:30:17.320 should be executed in general. Okay, that's fine. Like, we can have a conversation about that. If you

00:30:22.220 think either the death penalty is unjust per se or if you just think in our system, in our country, the

00:30:27.640 death penalty is unjust. Fine. We can have a conversation about that. Even if that's the case. You don't have

00:30:33.920 to lie. Like, you don't have to omit information about why she was convicted and why her sentencing has

00:30:42.180 been upheld. It is not based on this so-called coerced confession during her interrogation, which is what

00:30:48.680 Sharon says so has said. I responded to this in my Instagram stories. It's what many of these lawmakers have

00:30:56.040 said in Texas. It's what the Innocence Project is saying. And it's what this person named Josh Dubin, who

00:31:01.100 went on the Joe Rogan show a few months ago. He is an ambassador advisor, legal advisor for the Innocence Project.

00:31:08.580 And I just want to respond to a couple of clips, because I think that this is pushing so much

00:31:13.520 misinformation out there about this case. I just want to show you what a supposed expert in this case

00:31:21.100 is saying about it. So here's one clip. So she is the mother of 12 and is pregnant with twins

00:31:32.380 and is accused of killing her child. There's no physical evidence of any abuse whatsoever.

00:31:44.260 Oh, my goodness. So this is what you keep hearing. And this part makes me so mad because it is

00:31:51.020 injustice for the child who was murdered. It is injustice for Mariah. As we talked about,

00:31:56.420 as I've talked about on Instagram, as I talked about with Jeff Leach. First, we have the paramedics,

00:32:03.120 his sworn testimony, what he said in the trial. And this is according to transcripts that I can I can

00:32:08.980 link you. This is the appeals decision in 2011, quoted from the transcripts of the original of the

00:32:16.440 original trial. The paramedic, he was the one to testify who said that when he showed up,

00:32:22.580 Mariah found Mariah lying there dead. He said that Lucio, her mother, that her behavior was so

00:32:31.480 out of the ordinary that she wasn't distressed, that she wasn't anywhere within arm's length of

00:32:37.740 the child, that he said it was so strange that he wrote it down. And he wrote down in his notes that

00:32:43.300 the reaction and the attitude, the posture of this mother, who apparently called 911 because of the

00:32:50.080 death of her child, was so out of the ordinary from what he had seen that he noted it. And he

00:32:54.920 said immediately that it was obvious that this, even though he wasn't the one to diagnose this,

00:33:00.560 but that this seemed like a case of abuse. And then you have the ER doctor. You have an ER doctor

00:33:05.100 who said that he had been working in this industry for 30 years, and this was the worst case of a child

00:33:10.100 abuse that he had ever seen. Bruises all over her body and a broken arm, an arm that had been broken 0.61

00:33:18.200 for two to seven weeks without any treatment. So even if she did have some kind of blood disorder,

00:33:24.040 by the way, which again is something that was made up by the Innocence Project later, it was not

00:33:28.280 something that was noted in the beginning or found in the beginning. Like even if that were the case,

00:33:33.840 that doesn't cause an untreated broken arm. It doesn't cause also what the coroner found,

00:33:38.540 which were bite marks on her back. It doesn't cause bald patches on her head where her hair was ripped 1.00

00:33:44.320 out from the roots. It doesn't cause the indentation of her mother's rings on her body.

00:33:51.160 And during her confession, which was on tape, this investigation by the interrogators in the

00:34:00.000 police department, Melissa Lucio, uncoerced, admitted to causing all of the bruises and all of 0.75

00:34:07.500 the injuries on her daughter's body. This was not, they didn't lead her to saying these things. You know

00:34:13.460 why? You know how that obvious that is? It's because she said some very specific, that I'll

00:34:19.780 describe, and it's disturbing, some very specific things about how she abused her daughter that she

00:34:25.220 wouldn't have said, she wouldn't have just made up. Okay, so she said that she caused almost all of

00:34:30.420 the bruises, almost all of the scratches, but not all of them on her daughter's, on her daughter's

00:34:34.880 body. She described a very disturbing situation where she caused the bite mark on her daughter's back.

00:34:40.200 Other children were jumping around, they were frustrating her, and so for whatever reason,

00:34:44.780 she took it out on her daughter by covering up her daughter's mouth, Mariah, two years old, 1.00

00:34:49.380 and bit her on the back. Out of frustration, out of anger, she said that she pinched her daughter's 0.94

00:34:54.980 genitals. How would you make something like that up if that wasn't something that really happened? 0.97

00:35:02.040 And she said that she caused most of the bruising on Mariah, the pulling out the hair from the roots.

00:35:07.040 The coroner said that this was an awful case of child abuse, that she obviously died

00:35:11.140 based on some kind of trauma to the head. And people, the Innocence Project and Sharon Says So

00:35:18.080 all said, oh, well, you know, the autopsy, that's questionable because the interrogators,

00:35:22.500 the investigators were there at the autopsy. That's not unusual. That actually happens a lot.

00:35:27.580 There's no evidence at all that this, that the coroner, that the ER doctor, that the paramedic,

00:35:32.220 what, they were all colluding together to lie? These are medical professionals, and they all

00:35:37.720 testified to this. The jury would have also seen the photos of the abuse that was inflicted on her.

00:35:44.400 And no, this was not by the stepfather. Melissa Lucio admitted again on tape that Robert Alvarez,

00:35:50.060 her boyfriend at the time, was not guilty of this. And so, look, we've got a case here where the jury

00:35:57.440 saw the evidence, heard the evidence of child abuse. Her defense lawyer, Melissa Lucio's defense

00:36:03.820 lawyer admitted in court, hey, yes, she is an abuser. She did abuse her child. She's a terrible 1.00

00:36:12.520 mother, but she didn't strike the death blow. The jury didn't buy it. So to say that there was no

00:36:17.620 evidence of abuse, that is insane. That's insane. That is not true. There was much evidence of abuse.

00:36:25.760 And not only that, but CPS, as corrupt as they are, they had a long history with Melissa Lucio. 0.98

00:36:33.320 In affidavits, there is recordings of her neglect of her children, how she would test positive for

00:36:40.420 cocaine. Some of her children even tested positive for cocaine. Mariah was taken away from her mother,

00:36:46.280 as well as the other children in 2004, because of severe neglect that was obvious to CPS when they

00:36:52.940 showed up. And so, in 2007, Mariah and her other siblings were brought back to her mom in 2008.

00:37:01.960 That is when she was murdered. And not only that, here's another piece of this that you'll hear in

00:37:07.260 the Hulu documentary that you'll also hear from these Innocence Project people said, oh, there was

00:37:11.980 no evidence. All the other children, they didn't get abused. And all the other children, they are

00:37:15.940 supporting their mom. That's not actually true. So, Celina Lucio, and she looks exactly like her mom.

00:37:22.540 She has a TikTok account called Fifth of Fourteen, which you should go look up yourself and look at

00:37:26.880 these videos yourself. She has been making videos talking about how, yes, her mom absolutely did abuse 0.96

00:37:34.260 Mariah. Now, she says that her mom wasn't physically abusive to any of the other children, but that she

00:37:39.600 was abusive to Mariah, physically abusive to Mariah. She describes all kinds of abuse that I didn't know 0.60

00:37:45.640 about because they're not in the court decisions, like trying to suffocate Mariah with a pillow.

00:37:50.720 She remembers these things. And here's what also Celina said, that she was the only one of the only,

00:37:57.420 there were only a few siblings that actually lived with Melissa Lucio at the time that Mariah was 0.55

00:38:03.380 murdered. All of the other siblings that are supporting Melissa saying that, oh, she's not guilty.

00:38:08.320 They didn't even live with Melissa at the time, but Celina did. And Celina is making these videos 0.97

00:38:12.720 saying that she loves her mom. She doesn't want her mom to be executed, of course, but that her mom

00:38:17.580 is absolutely guilty. And she claims that maybe her mom didn't mean to kill her, maybe, but she

00:38:23.260 absolutely did abuse her and cause this. She believes that her mom is guilty. And she also claims that the

00:38:29.060 Hulu documentary purposely excluded her from the documentary because she didn't say what she wanted to say. 0.95

00:38:35.360 And she actually posts receipts of this conversation with the director of the Hulu documentary that

00:38:40.780 really show that they didn't want Celina's voice. They didn't want her testimony because she believes

00:38:46.160 that her mom is guilty. Same with another one of her siblings that was living with Mariah at the

00:38:50.840 time. And so there's so much more information about this factual information that is being omitted by

00:38:57.300 the media, being omitted by the propaganda machine that is the Innocence Project, because they are

00:39:02.100 simply anti-death penalty. They are not pro-innocence. And if you're anti-death penalty, just be that.

00:39:07.500 That's fine. You can be anti-death penalty, but don't lie. The media is lying about this, just like

00:39:14.220 they did the Julius Jones case. Sharon says so is intentionally or not. She is leaving out information

00:39:20.080 about this that does give us an idea of why the jury reached the decision that they did, why the criminal

00:39:26.900 appeals courts have reached the decision that they have to say that this is just an innocent

00:39:31.520 mother who was doing the best that she can, that there was no evidence of abuse. That's just a lie.

00:39:36.280 That's a lie. And let me show you, let me just show you another one of these of this clip from the Joe

00:39:40.840 Rogan podcast. It's just amazing. This is a person who is in this context as being a spokesperson for the

00:39:45.920 Innocence Project, who is trying to get Melissa off of death row and to say that she is innocent and

00:39:53.060 commit this crime. Listen to this. What are they accusing her? Killing her child. Of how?

00:40:01.160 I think it was, I think it was manual strangulation. You can read about the case on the Innocence

00:40:06.700 Project. Do they know what the kid actually died from? They know now and her experts show that it was

00:40:14.600 not, you have, I don't want to speak about the case in details without giving people a chance to read

00:40:21.380 the details and decide from themselves. Because getting behind something is not something you

00:40:29.020 should do because somebody says it on a podcast. I encourage people to do their own research.

00:40:35.120 And frankly, I don't know enough about the details of the nooks and crannies of the case.

00:40:41.580 Oh my goodness. Oh my goodness. So this person acting as a spokesperson who just a few minutes ago

00:40:46.940 in this, in, in this podcast, in this interview said that she was innocent, that, you know, the crime

00:40:51.840 wasn't committed. He doesn't even know. He doesn't know what the case is. Like he doesn't even know

00:40:58.080 the facts of the case. She was not accused of strangling her child. She was the, the child had

00:41:04.100 blunt force trauma to the brain. She had bruises all over her internal organs. Again, the worst case of

00:41:10.140 child abuse that this ER doctor had ever seen. She was not accused of strangling her child. And he realized

00:41:16.240 he didn't know the details of the case. And so he just fell back on, oh, well, I don't want to be a

00:41:20.480 person who tells you. Just a few minutes ago, he was trying to tell you exactly what to think. These

00:41:24.840 people don't even know the details of the case who are arguing for her innocence. That's a big deal to

00:41:31.900 potentially be upending justice for the murder of a child based on emotional propaganda. You don't even

00:41:37.600 know the facts. That's a problem. That's a problem. And honestly, a lot of people that I've talked to

00:41:43.220 about this don't know the facts of this. I had one exchange on Instagram and I wouldn't typically

00:41:49.360 message these kinds of people back because like from the tone and the content of the message,

00:41:54.980 I was like, okay, clearly this person doesn't actually know what they're talking about. But

00:41:59.380 I saw we had some mutual, some mutual friends. And so I was like, okay, this is like a legitimate

00:42:04.020 person. So let me go back and forth. And this person accused my side of only caring about the

00:42:14.160 emotional side of the argument, just like dismissing the facts. And I'm like, oh, my goodness,

00:42:19.600 like the gaslighting and projection. It was just like so enraging to me. And I was sassier than I

00:42:24.100 should have been. Probably. There were some things that I wanted to say, but I wanted to be like,

00:42:31.380 okay, I got to just got to tell you, this is the difference between your and your, but I did it

00:42:35.940 because I tried to stay at the task at hand and talk about, okay, actually the side that is missing

00:42:42.060 the facts of this case is the side of the innocence project. The side that is saying that this crime

00:42:46.240 didn't really happen, that she's completely innocent, that she's a victim of this. You're not

00:42:50.140 looking at Salina's videos. You're not looking at what the appeals court decided and why they decided

00:42:54.380 it and what the testimony of the expert witnesses said in the court. And look, you can look at the

00:43:03.720 other things. You can look at the other factors. I think that's fine. We should look at all sides of

00:43:08.280 this. That's why I engaged with a lawmaker who is on the other side of this. And I did listen to what

00:43:15.620 he had to say. And that's all well and good. All I'm bringing up is that there is a whole host of

00:43:22.140 facts in so much context and content that is being left out by the media and by the left side,

00:43:29.360 just like in the Julius Jones case. And even if you think, again, even if you think she shouldn't

00:43:34.620 be executed, even if you think there are some sketchy things that went on with this particular

00:43:40.560 case, I am willing to talk about that. What I'm not willing to be okay with is the lies,

00:43:46.880 the omission of the information, the trying to paint this person, this Melissa Lucio as an

00:43:52.840 innocent victim and basically just disregarding Mariah, making up things like, oh, she wasn't

00:43:58.480 abused at all. There's no evidence of abuse. She didn't have. No, this is just because this was a

00:44:03.640 Latino woman, Melissa Lucio, and she was persecuted because of that. Look, everyone in Cameron County

00:44:11.240 where this happened is Hispanic, like everyone. And so this was not a matter of discriminating

00:44:16.140 against someone because of her race. That's, again, another propaganda tool by the Innocence 0.95

00:44:20.340 Project to try to stir people's hearts. And the Innocence Project understands, and really the other

00:44:26.360 side of the story, the people propagating the talking points that they are, they understand

00:44:31.880 most people operate from emotion. Most people operate not on facts, not on logic, not trying

00:44:38.020 to really understand what's going on, not trying to dig into a case. They know that most people are

00:44:45.500 lazy. Most people aren't going to ask questions. Most people aren't going to critically think.

00:44:50.020 They just hear something. And I think, honestly, most people think, well, it doesn't affect me

00:44:53.740 whether she's kept on death row or not. And, oh, it's not going to bring back Mariah if she's

00:44:58.960 executed. And so why should we want this? That's not justice, by the way.

00:45:08.020 Justice is not about bringing a victim back. That's not how God defines justice in the Old

00:45:13.800 Testament. And God created justice, whether you like that or not. And so that's what I

00:45:18.680 can't deal with. I can't deal with the dishonesty. That's what bothers me in all of this. Not even

00:45:23.560 showing that, hey, this is a complicated case. And there are reasons why the jury and the judge

00:45:30.860 believed her to be guilty. There are good arguments put forward. Like, it's the lies. That's what

00:45:38.120 bothers me. And, you know, we were talking before this about what would I like to see happen then?

00:45:45.320 Like, what would I like to be the result of all of this? Is it execution? Like, do I believe that

00:45:51.380 she should be executed? Or do I believe that she should get a new trial at all? Because the

00:45:58.140 the court of appeals did find, so there were nine arguments put forth by her lawyers saying,

00:46:04.140 like, this is why she should, why she should get a new trial. This is why her execution should be 1.00

00:46:09.620 stayed. And the criminal court of appeals found that the Lucio's lawyer's claims needed to be

00:46:15.460 considered by a trial court. And those claims were, so one of the claims was that, but for the state's

00:46:23.800 use of false testimony, no juror would have convicted her. So they claimed that the state

00:46:28.200 used false testimony. Previous courts of appeals have said that's not true, but they say, the lawyers

00:46:33.580 say that it is. They also say previously unavailable scientific evidence would preclude her conviction.

00:46:39.680 She is actually innocent, is another claim that they make. The state suppressed favorable material

00:46:45.420 evidence in violation of Brady v. Maryland. Now, other courts of appeal have already looked at these

00:46:51.260 arguments and said that these are not legitimate, substantiated arguments. But this time, this court

00:46:56.840 of appeal said that they actually, all these things mean that her case should be reconsidered.

00:47:03.280 Okay. I guess I'm okay with that outcome. I'm not like excited for her to be executed because one

00:47:10.260 problem I do think that we have with execution in this country is that it's not consistent. It's up to

00:47:16.420 the prosecutor's discretion. So someone could have committed clearly a heinous murder and could not

00:47:22.040 go to death. It could not be on death row, could not be executed. Whereas someone else who committed

00:47:28.120 a murder, but I don't know, maybe they only killed one person and they're getting executed, but the

00:47:33.500 person who killed two people is not getting executed because it's just up to the prosecutor's

00:47:37.640 discretion. And it's up to their, basically their political ideology or how they're feeling that day

00:47:43.000 or whether they have like an election coming up. So I do agree. There is a problem with the

00:47:47.020 inconsistency. I have already done an episode on the death penalty and why I don't think that it is

00:47:51.580 unjust per se, but it is absolutely a biblical prescription and command for murder. But there

00:47:57.860 are plenty of good faith debates that we can have about execution in this country. I'm willing to have

00:48:03.260 those. So it's really not about for me that I just like want her to be executed. Of course. 0.97

00:48:11.260 Although, again, I do think that someone convicted of murder, that that is a just a just punishment.

00:48:19.100 And in one sense, I'm like, sure, she can just have she can have a retrial. What's the harm in that?

00:48:26.340 I think my issue is that propaganda is forcing this change. And that is not justice. That is not

00:48:35.120 justice. A Hulu documentary and a left wing organization and Texas state legislators and

00:48:41.920 people in the media who are exclusively telling one side of this story, painting her as a victim,

00:48:47.700 not at all talking about the long history with CPS, the long history of neglect, the physical evidence

00:48:53.220 of abuse, the testimony of the medical professionals in court that show that say that she was abused,

00:48:59.700 the uncoerced confession of severe abuse by Melissa towards Mariah. All of that is being excluded from

00:49:09.540 the conversation. And so that means that this person's punishment, the justice system is actually

00:49:16.840 being swayed by a lie, by deceit. That is a problem in principle for me, because that is not justice.

00:49:25.360 That is mob justice. That is people who are lying, telling one side of the story, putting pressure

00:49:33.200 on the political system, on the justice system to make a particular decision. That is not right in

00:49:40.820 principle. You could see, like, let's think a little bit about all the different negative ways that

00:49:47.540 that could possibly go, right? If the mob gets to decide someone's punishment based not on the truth,

00:49:56.980 but on a lie. Now, I think it'd be one thing if the Innocence Project and everyone else trying to

00:50:02.980 stay her execution, if they put all the facts out there, if they put the court transcripts out there,

00:50:09.120 if they really laid it all out and told the truth about who Melissa Lucio is, her long history of

00:50:15.180 abuse, and all the reasons why she was convicted of murder and why her case was upheld, and then

00:50:22.600 argued, even if this is all true, we still think that her execution should be stayed or she should

00:50:28.420 get a new trial, and here's why. I would have respect for that. I would have plenty of respect

00:50:33.260 for that. That's a conversation to be had. I'm willing to have that conversation. The line is what

00:50:39.080 bothers me, not just in this case, but with Julius Jones, with several other cases. This is a trend.

00:50:45.340 They pick a person who is a person of color. They create a narrative around this person. That is not

00:50:52.620 true. They leave out the facts. They leave out the context. They always make sure that there's plenty

00:50:57.940 of time in between, you know, 10 to 15 plus years in between now and the crime, so people really don't

00:51:04.760 remember how they felt when it was first reported on. Also, the political scene has changed. The media

00:51:09.640 scene has changed, and so the media isn't going to report the truth in an unbiased way. They're going

00:51:14.460 to be progressive, unlike several years ago, but this is the formula that the Innocence Project

00:51:19.820 puts forward, and people are taken by it because people are always taken by social justice narratives.

00:51:25.740 That is the part that bothers me. That's the machine, the social justice, criminal justice machine

00:51:32.220 that bothers me, that is fueled by propaganda, manipulative emotionalism, and it doesn't

00:51:37.220 actually care about the victims. No one's asking, like, what is justice for the victims? And it's

00:51:41.320 also, it goes into the conversation about this erroneous idea that the only kind of justice is

00:51:45.900 restorative justice, in which the person who committed the crime is restored to society or

00:51:50.720 reconciled to their victim. That's not the only form of justice. Some forms of justice are simply

00:51:57.740 punitive. I mean, that's how God lays it out in the Old Testament, and that is what our basic rights

00:52:04.640 in the Constitution and what are the principles of our laws are actually based on is the biblical,

00:52:11.940 general biblical idea of justice. And so some punishment is simply punitive, but this whole social

00:52:19.640 justice, criminal justice world has really taken in a lot of Christians and robbed them of their

00:52:25.300 discernment. Again, conversations, debates to be had about the death penalty in this country and

00:52:31.360 whether or not she should get a new trial. The line really, really bothers me. And the left does

00:52:38.320 this all the time. They can't, they know, the reason why they lie about someone like Melissa Lucio

00:52:42.380 is because they know that if they say, if they show the autopsy pictures, if they say what the ER doctor

00:52:50.480 and the coroner and the paramedic say, if they play what she confessed in her interrogation,

00:52:56.480 the very specific and disturbing history of abuse that she inflicted on Mariah, they know that if

00:53:02.440 they show what Celina has said, which by the way, Celina also said that her defense, that her mom's

00:53:08.280 defense attorneys tried to manipulate her and her other sister into taking the blame for Mariah's 0.99

00:53:13.220 bruises. This was before the Innocence Project came up with this whole edema line.

00:53:16.600 Um, they know that if they highlight those things and you're not going to feel sympathy for this

00:53:22.500 woman, Kim Kardashian's not going to say anything about it. And then, um, they won't get the result

00:53:28.000 that they want. It's really nasty stuff. That's not justice because justice can't be extricated from

00:53:33.220 truth, right? Truth actually matters. And so I guess that's the result that I want to see is just truth.

00:53:40.340 It's not that I am opposed to this person not being executed right now. I just think that we just need

00:53:47.700 to be telling the truth. And I don't want mob justice. Do you? I don't want mob justice for

00:53:52.180 anyone. And I think there needs to be more consistency in the punitive measures that we take

00:53:57.300 so that we don't have to worry about someone committing the same crime and getting two different

00:54:03.420 punishments for it. I do think that that's a problem. So that's kind of my, my, my final thoughts

00:54:09.580 for now on all of this. I probably have more to say on this because it just irks me to no end how

00:54:14.540 many people are lying about this case and getting away with lying about this case. And they just,

00:54:19.820 they don't care about little Mariah, who I believe, of course, by all the facts available

00:54:24.360 was brutally murdered. And it makes me, it just makes me really sad. The truth matters. Truth and

00:54:31.360 love can't be extricated from each other. Truth and justice can never be separated. So that's why I

00:54:36.360 keep talking about this because it matters. People get mad at me when I talk about this, but

00:54:40.520 the truth hurts, unfortunately. All right. That's all I have time for today. This was long. I knew

00:54:46.040 it was going to be long, but I had a million other things that I could talk about too, but I don't,

00:54:49.280 I don't have time to get into it. We'll have to talk more about it next week before I close this out.

00:54:54.320 All right, guys, thank you so much as usual for listening. Hey, reminder, if you have not gotten your

00:55:01.300 shirt that say raise a respectful ruckus or politics matter because policy matters,

00:55:05.520 because people matter, we will link the merch in the description of this episode. Check those out.

00:55:10.640 I don't know if at this point you can get them for Mother's Day. Maybe they might still get there 0.75

00:55:15.140 by Mother's Day if you want it for yourself or if you are a spouse or a son or daughter getting it

00:55:20.840 for the mom or wife in your life, then you should go ahead and order that. You can use code

00:55:27.280 Allie10 for 10% off. Check that out. If you love this podcast, please leave us a five-star review

00:55:32.540 on Apple Podcasts. That would mean so much. Thank you guys. I will see you guys back here on Monday.

Relatable with Allie Beth Stuckey - April 28, 2022

Ep 608 ｜ Should Christians Trust Elon Musk？

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