Relatable with Allie Beth Stuckey - Ep 618 ｜ Kirk Cameron on Homeschooling & Raising Godly Kids

00:00:00.000 Hey guys, welcome to Relatable. Happy Tuesday. Back in the studio today. This episode, as all

00:00:05.820 episodes, is brought to you by our friends at Good Ranchers. American meat delivered right to

00:00:10.340 your front door. Go to goodranchers.com slash Allie for a discount. That's goodranchers.com slash Allie.

00:00:16.580 All right, guys, we've got an awesome episode for you today. I am super excited to get to talk to

00:00:33.520 Kirk Cameron. So we've met a few times before. I have been on his podcast and then I think his

00:00:40.720 show on TBN recently. So finally, I'm getting him on Relatable and we are going to talk about a few

00:00:47.120 things. We're going to talk mostly about The Homeschool Awakening. That is his movie that is

00:00:52.580 coming out, that is produced by CamFam Studios. That is his production company as well as TBN.

00:00:59.300 It will be in select movie theaters. So we're going to talk to him about homeschooling,

00:01:03.520 why he feels like there is a homeschool awakening happening, and just some encouragement to you who

00:01:09.160 you're considering homeschooling or you're considering getting your kids out of public

00:01:13.240 school at least, or you're in the middle of homeschooling and you just need some encouragement.

00:01:17.820 This is going to be especially educational and encouraging for moms of young ones. And so I'm

00:01:25.340 super excited for you to hear our conversation, which I just know is going to be so edifying for you.

00:01:31.940 Before we get into the conversation, I just kind of want to set it up and give us some context about

00:01:37.880 why we're even talking about homeschooling. Unfortunately, just like many things,

00:01:42.620 it has become a political topic. It has been something that a lot of activists on the left,

00:01:49.540 a lot of so-called journalists on the left have tried to deride in recent years, especially

00:01:56.060 since the percentage of families who are homeschooling have gone up. In 2020, the percentage

00:02:03.720 of families homeschooling doubled from what it was in 2019. Of course, that's not surprising,

00:02:09.580 considering the disruptions to education that unfortunately happened across the country.

00:02:14.500 Some kids were forced into remote learning. But this number, according to Gallup, doesn't include

00:02:20.380 kids who are just remote learning from home. This includes kids only who were not enrolled in any kind of

00:02:26.940 formal education or any kind of public or private or charter school, but were actually being

00:02:33.320 educated at home. That number went from 5% to 10%. And you know, I was actually surprised when I was

00:02:40.300 looking at this Gallup study. The question was, what type of school will you as K through 12 students

00:02:48.900 attend? Will your oldest child, so oldest child, attend public, private, parochial, charter school,

00:02:55.180 either in person or remotely, or will they homeschool this year? By homeschool, we mean not enrolled in

00:02:59.740 a formal school, but taught at home. So 76% in 2020 said that they were going to send their kid to

00:03:07.280 public school. That is down from 83% in 2019, went from 5% in 2019 to 10% in 2020 of homeschooling.

00:03:17.660 And that is actually what surprised me was the super high number of public schoolers higher than I

00:03:23.280 imagined because the private school percentage is really low. The charter school percentage is

00:03:28.320 really low. The parochial school percentage is really low. Only 2% of kids go to a parochial school

00:03:34.360 only, at least of the oldest kids. That's what these parents were asked about. Charter school,

00:03:41.080 5%. Private school, only 6%. So homeschooling is actually more popular, or at least it was in 2020

00:03:49.480 than charter school and parochial school. So it seems like there is a growing popularity in homeschooling.

00:03:56.900 And I know that's true for a lot of you, just anecdotally speaking to members of my audience

00:04:02.120 who thought a couple years ago that you would never homeschool. You just feel like you're not built for

00:04:06.740 it. It's not something that you want to do, or maybe you like your work and you don't feel like you

00:04:11.060 have time to also homeschool your kids. But now you've done it. You decided to dive in and you realize

00:04:17.160 that there really is a lot more support out there than you realize, that you don't have to do

00:04:21.220 everything on your own, and that you're able to make memories with your child and spend quality

00:04:26.620 time with them that you didn't realize that you were missing before. I've talked to so many of you

00:04:31.640 that that is the case for, and I just love hearing it. I have never, personally, and I'm sure this

00:04:37.000 person's out there somewhere, I've never heard from a mom who says that they regretted homeschooling

00:04:43.260 their kid or pulling their kid out of public school or even private school and homeschooling

00:04:47.860 their kid. I have talked to many parents who now, looking back, say, you know what, I wish I would

00:04:52.500 have at least paid more attention to what my kid was learning. I wish I would have been more involved.

00:04:56.880 I wish I would have homeschooled my kid or made sure that they got a Christian education.

00:05:02.440 Homeschooling, a lot of people think that there is a big financial inhibition to homeschooling.

00:05:10.520 It actually is an alternative for a lot of families who can't afford private Christian

00:05:15.100 school because homeschooling can be so affordable. We're going to talk a little bit more about that

00:05:20.560 today with Kurt Cameron. But as I mentioned a couple minutes ago, this is something, homeschooling

00:05:25.740 is something that is unfortunately under attack. And in a lot of ways, it has been forever. And the

00:05:31.880 reason for that is because predominantly the families who homeschool are Christian conservatives.

00:05:38.740 They are largely evangelical. Not always. There's a big portion of the Mormon population that

00:05:45.760 homeschools. There are Catholic homeschoolers. There are, of course, Jewish homeschoolers. There

00:05:51.160 are homeschoolers of all different kinds of backgrounds, but they tend to be conservative

00:05:55.960 evangelicals. And as we know, as we've talked about many times, conservative evangelicals are public

00:06:02.980 enemy number one because they tend to be the most Republican. They tend to be the most

00:06:09.100 anti-abortion. They really stand against everything that progressivism thinks that the country should

00:06:16.560 be. Of course, I believe that's a good thing. Progressives think it's a bad thing. Let me just,

00:06:22.540 before we get into the conversation, tell you what MSNBC is saying, not just about homeschooling,

00:06:27.760 but about Kirk Cameron and his movie specifically. So this Anthea Butler, she's an MSNBC opinion

00:06:39.480 columnist. She says that she quotes Kirk Cameron saying public education has become public enemy

00:06:45.580 number one. Kirk Cameron opines at a promotion for the homeschool awakening. And then she goes on to

00:06:53.740 talk about that fundamentalist. This, of course, is like the new derogatory label for all Christians

00:07:00.760 who are not pro-LGBTQ and progressive. She says that fundamentalists and other religious conservatives

00:07:07.620 have fought against public education since the U.S. Supreme Court's 1954 decision in Brown v. Board of

00:07:14.220 Education. So, of course, the implication there is that homeschooling and anti-public education is

00:07:19.800 actually racist. The prospect of integrated schools led to the creation of many segregation academies,

00:07:27.080 private schools designed to keep African-American children and undesirable immigrant groups away

00:07:31.860 from white children. Now, that is somewhat true, but that is not true of the majority, even close to the

00:07:39.340 majority of private schools. There were private schools that were created to try to perpetuate some

00:07:45.100 form of segregation. But here's also the irony is that public the public education system was actually

00:07:51.120 created to indoctrinate and conform immigrant children to Americanism, to American patriotism, to try to make

00:08:01.180 them more patriotic and more American, to try to conform them and make them more uniform. And that was they also

00:08:07.860 tried to make Catholic students less Catholic. There was a very strict ideology, conformed ideology that

00:08:17.140 public school was trying to ensure its students adhered to. So it's always been about indoctrination and

00:08:26.940 conformity to some degree. And so it's interesting that she is now advocating for public school as

00:08:34.460 apparently like the anti-racist pro-immigrant institution. That is not at all true. She, of course,

00:08:42.240 goes on to say that this fundamentalist Christian curriculum that homeschool is based on is extremely

00:08:49.680 dangerous, that it is scary for society, and that the segregation academies that started in the 1960s are

00:08:59.880 still around. This racism is taking the form of school vouchers, trying to dismantle the U.S. Department

00:09:06.780 of Education, which, yes, I am for dismantling the U.S. Department of Education. She brings in Betsy

00:09:12.680 DeVos because of this. And then she makes a stunning point, which there's just there's no boundaries for

00:09:21.740 these people. She mentions the fact that professional educators, it's always the experts to these people,

00:09:27.960 and they never have to name them or cite them. The other professional educators have issued dire warnings

00:09:35.000 about increased potential for child abuse. Do you know the prevalence of child abuse inside the public

00:09:43.600 school system? Like you understand that that is unfortunately a hotbed of different kinds of sexual abuse,

00:09:51.460 different kinds of exploitation of children. Now, I'm not saying that there isn't a problem of child abuse

00:09:57.880 at homes, of course. And yes, public school teachers, teachers are supposed to be in most

00:10:02.960 states mandatory reporters if they see anything that looks suspicious. But unfortunately, the system

00:10:09.020 is very corrupt. And unfortunately, the public school system is not known for the most part in general for

00:10:16.980 protecting children. I'm not saying that there aren't wonderful teachers and principals and administrators

00:10:20.640 out there that are doing their very best to protect children. But unfortunately, unfortunately, the public

00:10:27.440 school system is also known for its abuse and neglect of children, not just physical abuse, but also

00:10:36.220 emotional abuse. So again, public school is not the beautiful, perfect alternative to homeschooling that

00:10:44.020 she is bringing up. Of course, she derides the homeschooling documentary that Kirk Cameron is

00:10:50.100 putting out as, you know, a culture, a culture war documentary talking about critical race theory,

00:10:57.460 LGBTQ issues. She brings up Florida's don't say gay law. Then she says to conclude homeschooling may

00:11:05.000 have greater appeal now because of these debates and the desire for parents to play a big part in their

00:11:09.540 children's educational life. But it may also arise out of pandemic concerns. But parents unfamiliar with

00:11:16.160 the existing networks of homeschooling run the danger of being drawn into Christian conservative

00:11:22.300 networks and theocratic teaching. Cameron says that people choosing homeschooling are having an

00:11:31.560 awakening, but the public needs to awaken to the reality that public schools may disappear if people

00:11:36.680 with his extreme beliefs have their way. Wow, everyone, you should be very, very afraid. Well,

00:11:45.760 this very scary figure, Kirk Cameron, talking about this awakening of homeschooling is here today to

00:11:53.960 try to dispel any of these fear mongering myths and to make sure that we know about the benefits of

00:12:01.340 homeschooling. It's talk about this awakening that he is saying is happening. And he needs our support

00:12:08.160 and encouragement, of course, because obviously, he is under attack. Before we get into that

00:12:13.540 conversation, you'll hear from our first sponsor, then we will welcome our friend Kirk Cameron.

00:12:22.960 Kirk, thanks so much for joining us. So as I was telling you, I just read that MSNBC article,

00:12:29.880 you said about 100 people sent it to you. And of course, the accusations in it, not just about you,

00:12:35.940 but about homeschooling in general, about fundamentalism, even trying to tie it in with

00:12:39.840 racism. Crazy. What was your response? What were your thoughts when you first read that article?

00:12:46.540 Well, number one, it made me think, wow, we must be right over the target. Right. When you begin to

00:12:53.120 speak of the sacred cow, that is just something that some want to protect at all costs. You know

00:13:02.400 that you're over the target when people start shrieking and howling. I also laughed at some of

00:13:09.020 the connections and the dots that were connected. Somehow, this is about racism. It's amazing how you

00:13:15.560 can make everything about racism when you want to. Right. But the idea that millions of American

00:13:20.960 parents who love God, who love this country are somehow anti-education because they're calling

00:13:28.180 out the immoral nonsense that is being pumped through much of the public education system is

00:13:34.840 like saying that we're anti-human because we hate cancer. That's just silly. People who are rotting the

00:13:43.760 minds and the souls of American children are not actually educating them. They're actually

00:13:51.320 grooming them more towards sexual chaos and the progressive left than they are really teaching them

00:13:59.160 about the world and how it works. And so what I want to do is provide parents with hope and with

00:14:07.520 options to support them in their goals to raise their kids to be the kind of human beings they want

00:14:13.260 them to be. Well, it certainly seems in the past couple of years that more parents have recognized

00:14:18.500 that public education and even in some cases, private education isn't serving their children

00:14:24.220 how they want their children to be served, whether it is, you know, taking time away from science class

00:14:30.440 to try to indoctrinate them with some kind of so-called inclusive curriculum about gender and sexual

00:14:38.960 identity. That's something that is happening in several areas, as many moms have attested

00:14:44.200 to, or whether it is this kind of racially divisive education and curriculum that a lot of parents or a

00:14:52.680 lot of kids have been subject to. Parents in large numbers are really just dissatisfied with the kind of

00:14:59.820 formal classroom education that their kids are receiving, especially in light of the disruptions

00:15:06.300 that public education saw because of COVID restrictions over the past couple of years.

00:15:11.760 So talk a little bit more about what you've seen as far as this awakening goes of parents

00:15:18.140 who have kind of recognized some of the problems that I just highlighted.

00:15:23.760 Well, it's amazing, this phenomenon that's taking place in America. There is an awakening to

00:15:31.820 educational options. And this was really brought on, as you said, Ali, by the pandemic. And all of a

00:15:37.680 sudden, parents had light shed on what their kids were learning in schools, particularly public schools.

00:15:44.960 So the kids are coming home, they're doing their classes online and parents see, and they're not happy

00:15:49.800 with what their kids are being taught, undermining so much of what they want them to teach. And so they

00:15:55.500 said, well, we've got to look for other options. And this awakening toward homeschooling, an option

00:16:03.640 that provides parents with so much more freedom and flexibility to be able to really tailor their

00:16:10.120 children's educational experience toward their strengths and learning styles. It allows them to

00:16:18.320 flourish as a family. Many families, even when they could go back to their normal schools, decided to

00:16:24.120 keep their kids in this home-based system because their family was flourishing so much.

00:16:31.840 We interviewed one family who actually has a special needs daughter. And when they took their

00:16:38.180 daughter to school, there was a vote that took place on how their child would be educated, what types

00:16:44.340 of classes she would take, who she would be educated together with. And the parents got a vote, the principal

00:16:50.680 got a vote, the teacher got a vote, and the special ed teacher got a vote. And they were, the parents

00:16:55.980 were outnumbered. And they were told that they're not special ed teachers and they shouldn't be making

00:17:01.460 the decisions about the education of their kids. And what they learned was they don't have to be

00:17:05.880 special ed teachers. They just have to know how to raise their daughter. And they are flourishing,

00:17:12.520 they are happy, they are successful, and their daughter is doing amazing.

00:17:17.900 Yeah. You know, I've seen several stories recently, especially when it comes to the issue of so-called

00:17:24.140 gender identity of schools really kind of going behind the parents' back and not just teaching their

00:17:33.620 kids things that parents may not want their kids to learn, especially without their informed consent or

00:17:38.740 their presence, but also actually giving these kids new identities, new pronouns, new names

00:17:45.580 without their parents' knowledge. That can have really dire consequences. And this really goes back,

00:17:52.020 I think, to a worldview difference between the left and the right Christians and non-Christians when it

00:17:57.240 comes to education. And that is, who is really in charge of your child? Like, who is really responsible

00:18:04.660 for kids? Is it really this whole mentality that the whole village is responsible for a child? Or did

00:18:12.520 God give children to their parents to be the primary caretakers and disciples and educators and stewards

00:18:20.120 of their children? There is a sharp difference between what it seems like the secular progressives

00:18:26.700 think about when it comes to responsibility for children's minds, and what Christians think about when it

00:18:33.520 comes to shaping a child's mind, right? Absolutely. Allie, you explained that so well. And if we study

00:18:42.820 history, we understand, and if we look behind the curtain of progressive education, and even if we're

00:18:50.320 talking about Christian education, whoever has control of the hearts and minds of the children will

00:18:56.440 determine the future. Everybody understands that, because these are the little humans who will be the

00:19:02.660 leaders in the next generation. And they can be discipled for good, which is what we want, to love God, to love

00:19:09.960 His Word, to love the Judeo-Christian moral standard that causes individuals and marriages and families and

00:19:18.840 churches and nations to flourish. Or you can use the educational system for evil, like dictators and

00:19:28.520 authoritarian governments have done in the past. So parents, in my view, have been given the sacred

00:19:37.440 responsibility to support their children, encourage their children, train up their children and teach

00:19:43.860 them what is good and beautiful and true. The first department of education is the family. And no one has the

00:19:53.580 right to take that away from moms and dads. Yeah. You know, I talk about the importance of

00:19:59.380 making sure that we are involved in our kids' education and just the value that I got from my

00:20:06.340 parents ensuring that I had a Christian education growing up. I wasn't homeschooled. There are so many

00:20:11.960 benefits to homeschooling, but I am thankful that I got a biblical education. I really think that it just

00:20:18.580 set me up well and gave me a really good foundation. And so I talk about that a lot. One contention that

00:20:24.420 I get from parents who, of course, love their children in the same way that we do, but they

00:20:29.200 have their kids in public school and they say, well, you know, I agree. I don't think public school is

00:20:34.400 maybe the best for my kid, but I want my kid to be kind of like a missionary at public school or I want

00:20:39.820 my kid to be salt and light. And what happens if you take all of the Christian kids away from public

00:20:44.540 school, then won't that just be bad for the kids that remain there? I have my own problems with

00:20:49.720 that argument, but kind of what would you say to parents who raise that concern?

00:20:55.880 Well, first of all, I would say, well, good for you that you're not just concerned about your kids,

00:21:01.380 but the kids who are trapped in a system that is filled with darkness and they need some light.

00:21:06.880 And you're hoping that your child could be that light. Unfortunately, the system is set up for your

00:21:14.000 children to be under the authority and the instruction of teachers who are working for a

00:21:21.700 system that is going against what you believe. So that would, I would say would be the rare exception

00:21:27.800 to place a child in a system like that during their adolescent years, during their developmental stage.

00:21:34.720 We don't send children out onto the battlefield when they're fighting physical wars. And one pastor

00:21:42.860 said very wisely, if we send our children to Rome to be educated, we shouldn't be surprised if they

00:21:50.100 come back Romans. Yes. A lot of people will recognize that quote. We've had him on the show a couple of

00:21:56.520 times. And yes, we, we love that quote as well. Yeah, that's right. So again, we, we hear in the word of

00:22:05.580 God, train up your children in the way that they should go. Um, this is, this goes back thousands

00:22:10.560 of years, uh, teach these things diligently to your children when they rise up in the morning,

00:22:16.100 uh, when they walk along the way, when they're at soccer practice, when you're at the grocery store,

00:22:21.660 and when you put them down for bed at night, if we, if we, uh, sub out parenting and discipleship

00:22:28.780 to a secular progressive government system for eight hours a day, five days a week, uh, we are

00:22:38.520 really setting ourselves up for disaster, uh, in the next generation. And, you know, a lot of people

00:22:47.080 I know they live in conservative areas. I hear them say, well, you know, my kid's teacher goes to our

00:22:51.920 church. We know then they're not learning the gender ideology, critical race theory stuff. They,

00:22:57.160 you know, they have a good curriculum and whatever. And I'm sure that is still true in some areas. I

00:23:02.880 would probably argue it's not going to be true for very long, but I would encourage people to consider

00:23:08.200 not just what your child is not learning and say that that's true in your particular area, but I

00:23:13.280 would also ask, what are they actively learning? And so I am thankful in my Christian education that

00:23:20.440 the Bible was really a part of every subject that I learned. And people ask me like, how do you

00:23:26.420 remember Bible references? How do you have things memorized? How do you kind of have, um, a knowledge

00:23:31.340 of the Bible? And I really can't pat myself on the back very much for that at all, at all, because

00:23:36.560 really it comes from learning about this stuff from kindergarten onward. And so I have such a

00:23:42.020 foundation, thankfully, of how to kind of make sure that in every subject that we're thinking through

00:23:51.000 and everything that we're approaching, that it really is colored by a biblical worldview,

00:23:54.980 because in my most formative years, I was given those tools. I was given that kind of education.

00:24:01.220 That doesn't mean that people who don't have Christian education can never have a very robust

00:24:05.780 theology and a great knowledge of the Bible, because of course they can. But I think that we are,

00:24:10.800 we are helping our kids so much by rather than putting them on the front lines of the battlefield,

00:24:16.080 when they're not even big enough to hold up their proverbial shield yet. We are saying, okay,

00:24:22.180 in your most formative years, we are going to do everything we possibly can to make sure that your

00:24:27.460 entire educational experience is influenced by the Word of God. And wow, that is going to set you up

00:24:32.900 so well for when you do go out into the world and you're met with all of these kinds of crazy ideas

00:24:37.840 and different ideologies, you are going to be so prepared and so equipped to contend with those

00:24:44.280 different kinds of lifestyles and ideas because you are going to have such a strong grasp on what

00:24:50.100 the Word of God is. Oh, what a beautiful way to grow up. I think as parents, that's what we want

00:24:56.780 for our kids. We've been given this precious gift called time. We believe in discipleship and training

00:25:02.380 and teaching and education. You know, one of the fears that I had when we began to home educate our

00:25:08.300 children, and we have six kids, by the way, four of them are adopted. All of our children went to a

00:25:12.860 private school up to sixth grade. After that, we weren't happy with the options. And someone

00:25:17.160 introduced us to this world of homeschooling. And we just found that we began to flourish as a

00:25:24.700 family. And we found that we had so much time together, which I know sounds kind of scary to

00:25:29.820 some parents. I don't think I could spend that much time with my kids. But you know, somebody told

00:25:35.180 me, if you do nothing for the first six months of your homeschooling experience, but learn how to be a

00:25:41.000 family and go through and do life together, you will be light years ahead of the other families and the

00:25:51.600 other kids who are like disconnected people living in a boarding house. Their kids are going off being

00:25:57.580 segregated according to their age or their abilities. And they're not even really experiencing the fullness

00:26:04.380 and richness of being a family, and the way that God makes the world work. But we began to understand

00:26:11.140 that this is awesome. Our older kids can teach the younger kids, my kids can come with me to work,

00:26:16.500 they can experience the world, they're learning how to deal with people, they're getting these

00:26:21.920 incredible experiences, I'm able to share my faith and pass on our values. We have community like

00:26:28.120 nobody's business, our kids are better socialized than anybody else, because they're not stuck inside of a

00:26:33.720 school room for seven, eight hours a day. We're out, we're in the world, the world has become our

00:26:37.260 classroom. So the point of that I'm trying to make is that you don't have to feel trapped in a system

00:26:50.720 that you don't want to be in. God's given your children to you. And education is something that

00:26:56.860 from the beginning of America has always been led by parents. And this homeschool awakening is a parent

00:27:03.020 led movement. They're discovering that there is hope, there are lots of options, and you get to

00:27:08.420 decide because you're the parent. Yep. I remember one time I was talking to Dr. Albert Mohler. He we

00:27:17.240 were talking about homeschooling and education. And there was an article that was out, I think,

00:27:23.000 probably a year and a half ago by a Harvard professor saying that homeschooling is authoritarian,

00:27:28.440 authoritarian, and how Christian parenting is authoritarian. And Dr. Mohler said something

00:27:32.780 that surprised me, but it reminds me of something you just said. He said, well, it is, it is. He said

00:27:37.600 all education is inherently authoritarian, because classrooms are not a democracy. There's a teacher

00:27:45.060 who is in charge, they get to say what you're going to learn, they get to dictate the curriculum and

00:27:51.760 rules and all of that. All education is inherently authoritarian. The question is, who is the authority

00:28:01.000 and who is a better authority of your child and your child's education? Is it this person whose

00:28:07.180 worldview you know is diametrically opposed to yours and actually hostile to yours? Or is it you? Or is it

00:28:16.540 someone that you know aligns with your worldview? And the power of suggestion, something I've been

00:28:23.360 thinking about a lot recently, especially when it comes to the sexual ideologies pushed in school,

00:28:27.600 the power of suggestion is so strong. And I think data backs this up, that if you are the first person

00:28:33.880 who is in authority in a child's life to suggest something, that really gives you a leg up in how much

00:28:41.140 you're able to influence them toward a particular idea. And so when you see these teachers just

00:28:46.580 suggesting that, you know, maybe a child can be a different gender or pick a different pronoun,

00:28:51.320 maybe it seems totally innocuous to some people, but the power of suggestion, especially on

00:28:55.860 malleable minds at such a formative age from someone who is in a position of authority that a child

00:29:02.180 is told that you have to please, that you have to obey in order to get a good grade, that's really

00:29:07.540 powerful. So parents just really have to consider and be careful about who is in that position of

00:29:14.520 authority, who has the power of suggestion and influence. Should it be you who loves your child

00:29:20.180 so much and has their best interest at heart? Or should it be someone that you know doesn't really

00:29:25.740 care one way or another how your child turns out? So it's just something to think about when we're

00:29:31.140 thinking about who we want to educate our kids.

00:29:33.160 I agree with you, Ali. I would even say that because education five days a week,

00:29:42.040 seven, eight hours a day is so influential, that power of suggestion is so influential. And

00:29:47.680 those who are really in charge of the Department of Public Education understand that it's not that

00:29:55.540 they don't really care how your kids turn out. They understand that this is the little workshop where

00:30:02.740 we turn out people with certain worldviews that we want them to have. That's what discipleship is.

00:30:09.020 As Christian parents, we want our children to love God, to love their family and to love our country

00:30:16.360 and to put their hope and trust in God. But a Marxist, a socialist wants people to hate our God.

00:30:25.060 They want our children to disagree with our ideas of morality and the family and ultimately to think

00:30:31.600 that American exceptionalism, the biblical foundations that America was built on are a bad

00:30:37.260 idea because they promote things like inequality and racism and that kind of thing. And to look at

00:30:42.620 the government as their savior, as their protector and their provider. And the best way to do that

00:30:47.680 is to simply have them in your classroom. So lots is at lots is at stake. It's not just about the

00:30:54.800 Pythagorean theorem. Um, it's not just about memorizing the 50 States. This is about training

00:31:00.920 children to think a certain way, particularly about the government and politics and, uh, the, the great

00:31:09.780 authorities that a socialist system must get out of the way in order to fully control your children

00:31:17.440 is the family and the church. That's why parents and, uh, Christianity are targets. Number one and

00:31:25.240 two. Yeah. And I do just want to say that there are so many wonderful Christian teachers in public

00:31:33.040 schools and I'm thankful for them. I'm thankful that they have the equipment of the word of God,

00:31:38.880 the conviction from the Holy spirit to be there and to perhaps be the only adult Christian influence

00:31:44.540 in a lot of kids lives. They truly are the source of sanity and light in a lot of dark places. And

00:31:51.320 a lot of those public school teachers, as much as they love their jobs, as much as they love those

00:31:55.680 kids, they have kids who are homeschooled or they understand that the system is very hard to be in

00:32:01.920 for Christians. And so they are very sympathetic with some of the things that we're saying. I just

00:32:06.040 want to make sure that I'm highlighting. I'm so glad you said that. Yes. Yes. Go ahead.

00:32:10.520 I'm so glad that you said that Allie, uh, because my father is as a public school teacher and so is

00:32:16.280 my grandmother and so is my grandfather. So, uh, there are, there are good teachers there. In fact,

00:32:22.380 I just sat next to a lady, uh, at a dinner the other night and, uh, she has the opportunity to really

00:32:27.880 teach her children great things, um, good things, but today's public school system is not supporting

00:32:36.260 those good teachers. They're working against them. Uh, today's public school system, unfortunately,

00:32:42.000 is not our grandparents' public school system. It's very different.

00:32:49.260 Tell me a little bit more about this movie. What can people expect and, uh, why, why did you make it?

00:32:56.880 I mean, I guess it's everything that we just talked about, but why did you decide, okay,

00:33:00.260 there needs to be a movie about this and what are your goals, um, for what this movie will hopefully

00:33:06.580 accomplish? Well, there's genuinely an awakening going on. There's this phenomenon that's happening

00:33:12.100 in our country where homeschooling has is, is on the rise. And even when families had the opportunity

00:33:17.740 to, to send their kids back to school, many of them didn't because a, they wanted to teach their

00:33:22.880 kids something better and their families were flourishing and they didn't want that to stop.

00:33:26.740 So this is a documentary where we, we follow, uh, the stories of 17 different families all across

00:33:36.620 the country. Some of them live in rural areas. Some of them live in, in urban areas. Uh, there are

00:33:41.820 families who do schooling totally different. Uh, some of them, uh, have this idea of bringing the school

00:33:49.060 classroom into their home and others make the world their classroom. Um, they turn the weekdays into

00:33:54.940 weekends and they teach their children differently based on their learning styles and based on their

00:34:01.200 parenting, uh, teaching, teaching styles. And so we learned the ins and the outs, the how to's

00:34:07.160 and the frequently asked questions and objections so that parents can really go on this journey

00:34:12.740 together with these families and see what it's like. It's kind of like taking a test drive and you

00:34:17.380 get to see, is this really something that we should do? Because people have questions. Uh, they want

00:34:21.880 options. They don't know what's possible. They don't know what's legal. And we want to, uh, give

00:34:26.240 people all of that information, uh, so that they can decide what's best for their children.

00:34:31.500 Yep. I think that this is going to be really helpful because a lot of people, they're just

00:34:35.220 kind of scared to homeschool. They just think, well, I've never been a teacher. I don't even remember

00:34:40.020 fifth grade math. How, how am I going to do this? How in the world am I going to be able to be the

00:34:45.580 one who is in charge of my kid's education? And isn't that kind of scary? I mean, if you want your kid to

00:34:50.480 go to college, they have to get into college, they have to pass these tests. What about the

00:34:54.740 parents who are just scared of failure? That's what's so exciting about this is as you follow

00:34:59.560 these families and we also speak with, um, presidents and, uh, deans of admission at

00:35:06.180 universities and colleges. And you find out that homeschool kids, if the parents are really committed

00:35:12.100 and you're doing this well as a family, uh, actually do phenomenally well. And, uh, some will

00:35:20.180 even tell you, we prefer children who are, who are home educated. Uh, not, not that that's always

00:35:26.300 the best, but when parents are actively involved in leading their children's education, whatever

00:35:30.640 that is, private school, um, homeschooling, whatever, uh, these are kids who are integrated

00:35:35.500 with the world. They take initiative. They have character. They have a worldview that leads to human

00:35:41.120 flourishing and they do great. They get scholarships. Um, they're, they're well-rounded human beings.

00:35:47.480 And as far as learning, you know, fifth grade history and math and all of those things,

00:35:52.420 there are so many co-ops and networks and curriculums. There is such a rich and robust

00:36:01.200 community of homeschooling around the country that you wouldn't, you wouldn't believe it. And,

00:36:07.560 and so you have help, you have support, and there is nobody who loves your children more than you do.

00:36:13.440 There's no one who knows them as well as you do. And you begin to learn these things together as a

00:36:18.600 family, uh, across age, age ranges and abilities and talents and strengths. And, and all of you are

00:36:26.900 working together in community with other families in community. And it, it really opens the entire

00:36:32.860 world up to you as your classroom. Talk a little bit more. You've mentioned it a couple of times

00:36:37.940 about this socialization aspect. I would say like, that's the, the big fear-mongering talking point,

00:36:43.500 typically from public school advocates or, you know, anti-homeschool activists who say, well,

00:36:49.160 kids who homeschool, they're weird. They're, they're not going to be socialized because they're isolated

00:36:54.960 and, you know, their parents are Quakers or whatever it is. Um, so talk, talk a little bit more

00:37:02.060 about that. What does socialization look like when your kids are homeschooled? So, um, no disrespect

00:37:10.380 to the Quakers, uh, but, but, uh, socialization can be amazing with, with homeschooling. So if you

00:37:22.120 really think about it, um, thinking that you're going to, um, socialize your, your children by sending

00:37:28.680 them to public school is, is kind of like thinking that you're going to teach your children about

00:37:35.880 nutrition by dropping them off at a candy store. Uh, it's, it's not the kind of socialization that

00:37:42.000 you really want. How often are we saying, Hey, don't look at that. Hey, don't hang out with those

00:37:45.460 kids. Hey. And all of a sudden we're trying to, we're on the defense, trying to keep our kids from

00:37:49.420 all of this socialization that they're getting in public school, unsupervised, or even the people in

00:37:54.720 charge, encouraging them to do and believe and look at things that we don't want them to see.

00:37:59.820 Listen, um, Allie, I heard a story, uh, from one of the families that we followed in the movie.

00:38:04.700 Uh, her dad, uh, was involved in, in, uh, assisting in passing a bill in their state that notified

00:38:11.880 parents when explicit material was being shown to their elementary, uh, uh, kids, elementary grade kids

00:38:19.200 at their school. And she thought, well, this is a no brainer. Like, of course this is going to pass.

00:38:24.180 And when they started to read the examples to people in the room of the explicit material,

00:38:29.300 that's currently being read to those kids, the judge stopped the proceeding and he actually

00:38:35.220 ordered everyone under 18 years old to leave the room because it was so explicit. And then

00:38:41.040 the, the, the teachers from the unions and, and others were actually screaming and yelling at the

00:38:47.800 parents who objected saying, you have no business telling us what to teach your children. We have the

00:38:52.860 degrees. Uh, we are the experts you butt out. And it was at that moment that she realized, okay,

00:38:58.840 we just pulled back the curtain. I see the agenda here. My kids are out of here.

00:39:04.340 Yeah.

00:39:04.860 And so socialization happens most naturally. And I think in the most healthy way, when it's

00:39:11.860 conducted in the real world, within the context of the protection of, of, of a loving family

00:39:16.940 community, in community with other families, with grandmas and grandpas and infants and toddlers

00:39:23.000 and teenagers, not segregated according to age or race or, uh, special abilities, but everybody

00:39:32.140 working together.

00:39:33.860 Yeah, absolutely. How do you think churches can better facilitate and encourage homeschooling?

00:39:41.980 Because it does seem like this is something that some churches don't want to touch. They

00:39:47.100 don't want to offend people who send their kids to public school, or maybe they just don't even

00:39:51.380 really think about it. But I'm thinking about parents who maybe they feel like they can't afford

00:39:57.740 to homeschool, even though homeschool can be very affordable, but maybe the single mom,

00:40:02.160 she has to work full time. She doesn't want her kid to be in public school, but she feels like

00:40:06.300 she has no other options. There seems to be a space that could be filled by the church to help

00:40:12.300 support these kinds of parents. Do you see that happening? And if not, like, how can, how can churches

00:40:19.700 kind of stay, take the first steps in supporting those kinds of parents?

00:40:24.600 Well, I agree with you. Yes, the church can play a very important role in supporting parents

00:40:29.760 who want their kids to have a great education. And so I encourage church leaders to do that. And I

00:40:36.840 know many who are doing that. And this is one of the great things, Allie, that I see about these

00:40:41.740 extraordinary pressures that are coming upon us in America, particularly within the family of faith.

00:40:48.840 I believe that God is using these pressures to wake us up from our slumber. We've been asleep on these

00:40:55.040 issues for so long. How is it that we have let our children go someplace and learn things that we're

00:41:01.160 not aware of for decades? And now we're shocked and we're, we're horrified at what our kids are coming

00:41:08.620 back and saying, mom and dad, I don't believe what you've taught me about God. You guys are archaic in

00:41:14.380 your, in your morality. You don't even understand how bad we are as a nation. Churches can provide

00:41:23.140 parents with resources and support so that parents can take their kids out of that kind of a system

00:41:29.260 and can plug them into a system with other parents, with other single parents, with co-ops, with networks.

00:41:36.540 And the church can provide a huge support for that. And the pastors that I know who are doing that are

00:41:42.140 seeing terrific results. And they're understanding the importance and pouring more and more resources into it

00:41:48.620 because it is the future. And I think all, all churches need to make that a huge priority.

00:41:56.040 And one thing that churches can do is they can encourage their congregants to go see your movie,

00:42:02.160 The Homeschool Awakening. Where can people watch this? It's in select movie theaters.

00:42:07.560 And so if it's not in someone's area, can they watch it online? How does this work?

00:42:10.560 So The Homeschool Awakening is going to be in theaters for two nights only. And that's on June

00:42:18.100 13th and 14th. Now it's going to be in theaters all around the country, but it's only for those two

00:42:23.220 nights. Therefore, uh, go online and reserve your tickets now because once the tickets are gone,

00:42:30.280 they're gone. Okay. And, uh, I don't know when you're going to be able to see the movie after that.

00:42:35.140 We'll let you know, but the best way to see it is in the movie theater. So if you go to

00:42:38.760 the homeschool awakening.com, you can get tickets there. Uh, I've got a link on my website as well

00:42:44.860 at Kirk Cameron.com. And, uh, you can reserve tickets for your friends, for your family.

00:42:49.660 If you're thinking about homeschooling, but you have questions, or if you have family members who

00:42:54.300 object to your homeschooling and you want to help provide them with reasons and answers to their

00:43:00.580 questions, they'd be great people to invite. Yep. And so you go to, you go to the homeschool

00:43:07.160 awakening.com and then you go up to buy tickets. And then once you do that, you can enter in your

00:43:12.440 zip code and then different theaters will pull up. This would be a great thing to do with your small

00:43:17.680 group, different people in your congregation. This could just be a fun activity, bring your kids,

00:43:22.740 all that good stuff. Um, I'm super excited about it. I hope that tons and tons of people go see this

00:43:29.520 and get educated and also just get encouragement. If you're already homeschool family, you just need

00:43:33.760 encouragement or reminder of why you do what you do. Um, then I think that this would be a great,

00:43:38.980 a great movie, a great documentary for you guys too. Uh, thank you so much for taking the time to

00:43:44.940 come on, to talk about these important issues. Thank you genuinely for the work you do, the content

00:43:50.080 that you put out. You really are a chair, a trailblazer in this space. And I know that you've just

00:43:54.500 served as so much encouragement for so many families and so many marriages. So I appreciate

00:43:59.660 you. Thank you so much. Allie, thank you. Uh, it's, it's an honor and always a pleasure to talk

00:44:06.240 with you. You are such an important voice in our culture right now. And I thank God for you. And

00:44:12.040 thanks for helping us get the word out about the homeschool awakening. Yes, of course. Thank you so much.

00:44:16.260 All right, guys, hope that you enjoyed that conversation. Something to think about. You

00:44:26.540 guys know how I feel about the education system. Um, the goal is to not, is not to make you feel

00:44:32.500 disheartened if you are someone who you're a student in a public school system, or maybe you sent your

00:44:37.280 kids all the way through public school, turned out great, or maybe you regret that decision. The goal

00:44:43.400 is to not make you feel sad about that, but to empower and to encourage you and to maybe challenge

00:44:49.200 our thinking about education and to make sure that you know that there are other opportunities

00:44:53.640 and options for you and for all of us to take seriously the responsibility of discipling our kids,

00:44:59.940 stewarding their minds, cultivating as much as we can through every subject that we teach them,

00:45:05.280 both at home and outside in the world, to love God with all their heart, mind, soul, and strength,

00:45:09.300 to love their neighbor as themselves, to be discerning, to be wise, to be critical thinkers,

00:45:14.300 because in this age of groupthink where everyone is just going downstream and everyone is just

00:45:19.880 repeating the talking points that they hear and people are literally learning morality from Snapchat,

00:45:25.400 we want our kids to be different. We want our kids to be godly. We want our kids to be full of

00:45:30.760 grace and truth. That doesn't mean that they are always going to be accepted and liked by the world,

00:45:35.940 but that's not really our goal as parents, right? Our goal as parents is to raise godly and

00:45:40.980 Christ-like children. So in everything that we do, we ask for the strength and for the wisdom from God

00:45:47.460 to be able to do that. And Kirk Cameron is a great resource, and this documentary will be a great

00:45:52.700 resource for you. I did just want to give a shout out in light of the conversation that we are having.

00:45:57.500 You might remember a few months back, sometime last year, I had a mom named Sherry Clemons on,

00:46:02.820 and she went viral on social media because she went to a school board meeting for Richardson ISD

00:46:09.700 in Texas, where she read some excerpts from a book that was given to her eighth grade child

00:46:18.480 on a book list by the child's teacher. And the book was not only filled with all different kinds of

00:46:28.040 ways that a young person can commit suicide, but also very sexual material that was just wildly

00:46:34.660 inappropriate, especially for a young person. And so this mom is similar to one of the moms that

00:46:39.780 Kirk Cameron was just speaking about. She read these excerpts in a school board meeting,

00:46:43.960 and she was very fiery about it. She was very persuasive when she was talking about the problems

00:46:52.980 with this, and it kind of woke her up and woke a lot of other people up to the problems that are

00:46:57.580 having in public schools. And this is in an area, by the way, that is not San Francisco. It's not

00:47:04.700 Portland. It's not D.C., New York City. I mean, we are talking about the suburbs of Dallas in Texas.

00:47:11.140 So she came on the show to talk about this and how to raise kids as Christians in this crazy and chaotic

00:47:18.360 culture. Anyway, she decided to run for school board in Richardson ISC. She decided to raise a

00:47:24.860 respectful ruckus even further. She applied our maxim that politics matter because people matter.

00:47:33.820 So she decided to run for school board. And now she is in a runoff in this particular election. It was

00:47:40.480 so close. And so she's in a runoff for the next, I think it's like 30 days she will be in this runoff

00:47:47.180 election. And so you need to ensure if you are in that area, if you, this is RISD District 2.

00:47:57.100 June 18th is the day that you can vote. If you are in Richardson, if this is in your district,

00:48:03.980 RISD District 2. Make sure that you go out, that you vote for Sherry Clements. She is going to do

00:48:11.500 everything she can to be salt and light in this arena and try to get this district on the right

00:48:17.680 track. So June 18th, runoff election. Make sure that we are voting in our local elections. I'm

00:48:25.140 speaking to myself, too. It's just so easy to not even know that it's going on or to say, oh,

00:48:29.140 I'll do that later. And then you just forget. But we really need to make sure that we are involved in

00:48:34.500 our local elections. That's really where the change is going to happen. That is where conservatives and

00:48:38.880 Christians can gain ground, by the way. And so good for Sherry Clements. I just, because she was

00:48:43.760 a previous guest, I know there's probably a lot of you out there that maybe you're in the same

00:48:46.880 situation. But because she was a previous guest, I wanted to make sure that I gave her a shout out.

00:48:51.480 June 18th, runoff election in Richardson, Texas, ISD District 2. All right. Just another thing.

00:49:00.040 If you guys want merch that says raise a respectful ruckus or politics matter because policy matters,

00:49:06.860 because people matter, then you can go to the link in the description of this episode. We've

00:49:11.320 got cute t-shirts and we've got more stuff coming out, guys. We've got some stickers. We've got some

00:49:15.580 water bottles. I think we have another t-shirt and you guys are going to love it. I'm super excited

00:49:19.840 about it. But make sure that you get your merch while it is still available. Also, if you love

00:49:26.880 Relatable, it would mean so much to us if you leave us a five-star review on Apple Podcasts or wherever

00:49:31.520 you listen. Make sure you subscribe on YouTube as well. Thank you guys so much for being here.

00:49:37.640 If you haven't listened to yesterday's episode, just kind of giving an analysis and a response to

00:49:44.260 the response to the Buffalo shooting, then make sure that you go listen to that. We will be back here

00:49:50.200 tomorrow.

Relatable with Allie Beth Stuckey - May 17, 2022

Ep 618 ｜ Kirk Cameron on Homeschooling & Raising Godly Kids

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