Ep 623 ｜ Depp v. Heard, MeToo, & What Women Want ｜ Guest： Alex Clark
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Summary
In this episode of Relatable, my friend Alex Clark joins me to talk about the Johnny Depp-Amber Heard verdict and why it matters to her and why she thinks it's a big deal. She also talks about her experience as a conservative Christian in the dating world.
Transcript
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Hey guys, welcome to Relatable. Happy Thursday. This episode is brought to you by our friends
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at Good Ranchers. Go to goodranchers.com slash Allie. That's goodranchers.com slash Allie.
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Okay, today we are talking to my friend Alex Clark. She hosts the Instagram show Poplitics.
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She talks about pop culture from a conservative perspective. She also hosts a show called The
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Spillover, which is a long-form interview podcast that comes out once a month. A lot of you guys
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already know, follow, and love Alex Clark, so you can kind of know what to expect from that
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conversation. Some of you may be unfamiliar. It's going to be super fun. She is a fun, bubbly, very
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smart, entertaining, funny person, and you're just going to love this podcast. It's a little bit of
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a lighter episode, which is good. We talk about some heavy things. If you haven't listened to
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Tuesday's episode, Wednesday's episode, Tuesday's episode was about everything that happened in
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Uvalde. I highly recommend going to listen to that. And then yesterday's episode was the Christian
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response to Pride Month. And we talked about a few of the crazy things going on in the Biden
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administration, in public schools, around this kind of sexual revolution and how it is affecting
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our kids. Go listen to that. Today, we're on a little bit of a lighter note. We are talking about
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the Johnny Depp-Amber Heard trial. You guys know we have not discussed that on Relatable. I have only
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started following it a little bit over the past couple of days. The verdict came out. You guys probably
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know there were accusations of abuse toward Johnny Depp. Johnny Depp said that's not true, sued Amber Heard
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for defamation. And so this whole thing has just been an ugly mess. The trial has been six weeks. Most
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people on social media have been on Johnny Depp's side. It's just a whole crazy thing. I just have
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not had the capacity to follow along. But Alex is going to tell us why this matters, why this is
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important. She's going to summarize what happened. And then I'm going to give my take on it just from
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kind of an outside observer. I think it's a unique and, dare I say, nuanced opinion about the
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conclusion of this whole trial and how it kind of went down. We're also going to talk about
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friendships, how to make friends with like-minded people. Also, when to know to not be friends with
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someone anymore because of some very serious disagreements. We're going to talk about relationships
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and dating. She's going to give us some insight into her experiences in that world as a conservative
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Christian in this wild dating space that we are in right now. So I know that you're going to love
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this conversation. It's going to be upbeat, but also insightful. And I just hope encouraging for you
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guys. If you love this podcast, I'll end the week on this. If you love this podcast, would you please
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leave us a five-star review on Apple Podcasts? Thank you so much to those of you who have already
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done that. You don't have to give a long-winded response unless you want to, or a long-winded
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explanation about why you love the show. You can, or you can just write a sentence telling us why you
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love Relatable. Also, another announcement before we get started. We've got lots of merch on our
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merch website. We've got Razor Respectful Ruckus shirts. We've got Politics Matter because policy
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matters because people matter, which kind of summarizes our show. We've got those t-shirts. We've also got
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stickers that say that now. We've got lots of fun stickers. We also have a shirt that says Millennials
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Against Low-Rise Jeans. Another theme of this show. I will never go back to the low-rise jean trend. I
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am against it. We've got stickers that say that. We've got all kinds of new stuff, and we have new
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merch coming. So we will include the link to that in the description of this episode if you're watching
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on YouTube or if you are listening wherever you are listening. So go check that out.
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Alex, thanks so much for joining Relatable again, this time the first time in studio. We're going to
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talk about a few things. We're going to talk about YWLS. We're going to talk about women and
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conservatism and all that good stuff. But first, I want to talk about kind of the pop culture drama
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that's going on this week that we have not talked about at all on Relatable. I really haven't discussed
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it because I haven't had the capacity to care. But I thought it would be interesting to talk a little
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bit about the Johnny Depp, Amber Heard verdict that came out yesterday. Can you just give us
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like a brief rundown? What the heck happened? And why should we care about this at all?
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Okay, we actually should really care about this. It's very, very big, not only for pop culture,
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but I just think culture in general what happened here. Because in 2018, Amber Heard wrote an op-ed
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for the Washington Post. And she basically said without saying Johnny Depp's name, and everyone knew that
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they had a very long-term relationship, that she was a survivor of domestic abuse and domestic
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violence. And so he sued her for defamation. Because he ended up losing a ton of movie deals
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after that. Everybody in Hollywood started to hate him. They labeled him this abuser, this terrible
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person. So he sues her. She countersues him for defamation. And so they end up in this trial with a jury
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and everything, suing each other. He wanted, I believe, 50 million. She countersued him for 100
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million, I think. And what ended up happening was they both ended up getting money. They were both
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found, I don't know if guilty is the right word, but they were both found like they had defamed each
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other in certain aspects. He got more money in the end than she did. He got like 15 million. And she got
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two. Okay. So essentially, in the public's eyes, Johnny Depp wins. But what's really interesting is that
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she really tried to brand this as, well, this is me too. This is me speaking out. This is for women
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everywhere. But in the trial, it comes out that really, she was just as much of a verbal abuser,
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physical abuser, even maybe more so than him. She's on tape talking about punching him. She also pooped
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in his bed. So that's the biggest part. But she said that she didn't. So I followed a little bit of
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this. And she said, no, I would never do that. That's disgusting. That was our Yorkie. But then the
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driver testified on the stand and said that she told him in the car after it happened that
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she did. Oh, yeah. And that it was a practical joke gone wrong. She 100% did. The defecation was
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like a surprise that she left for Johnny Depp. So I feel like that in itself may have just like ruined
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her credibility in general with the jury. If I'm the jury, I'm like, okay, that's disgusting. What else
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would you do? Well, she did all kinds of weird stuff. She was whatever Johnny would wear the next day
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in court. She would copy. Tell me why. Tell me why you think she did that. Because it's a weird
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psychological manipulation. She's a crazy person. You know, you think, you know, I mean,
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she's literally the psycho girl, the girlfriend, you know, the ex-girlfriend that like goes and keys
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your car and and poops on your bed. I mean, yeah, crazy. So I think that's kind of her way is just a
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petty kind of thing to do. Yeah. But nothing she did in trial made her look good. Right. Okay. So
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one thing, though, that I will say is that there was some evidence that he was an abuser,
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not necessarily all of the allegations that she made against him, like physical abuse. But we do
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have some tape that apparently she leaked to TMZ, but then she lied and said that they didn't leak to
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TMZ, where he was at least like attacking the cabinets, which might not be physical abuse towards
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her, but is kind of abusive because you're making this kind of intimidating environment. And he is
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verbally abusing her. And there is some evidence that he was not a great guy, not a great guy towards
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her, that the marriage counselor, which was his witness, went up on the stand and said, yeah, I think
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that they mutually abused each other, at least emotionally and verbally abused each other.
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But when she sued, because there was another case, like he so Depp filed in 2018, a libel claim
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against newsgroup newspapers, the owner of The Sun, because The Sun ran an article a few years ago
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calling him a wife beater. And he lost that case because The Sun argued, well, there is credible
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evidence that he is a wife beater. And the court in the UK found that, yeah, there is credible
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evidence against him. And so this is not a valid case of libel. So I don't know what to make all
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that. I don't know if she is completely, totally lying. There seems to be some evidence to act
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There's definitely evidence against him. They were toxic for each other. They both said things to
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each other, you know, talked horribly to each other. She, at least on tape, admitted to physically
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abusing him, punching him and said, don't be such a baby about it. Who cares? I punch you in the face.
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So what? You know, that kind of stuff. So they both were awful. The thing is, though, that's
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interesting is that what this really showed is that, you know, men can be victims of domestic
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abuse, too. It can go both ways. And so this whole mentality of, you know, believe all women,
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no matter what, without hearing both sides, it's just there's a little bit more nuance to this
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than that. And I think even liberal Hollywood with this case was faced to look in the mirror and say,
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OK, maybe all the stuff that we've been saying, you know, with Me Too and all this and always
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believe all women. Maybe that isn't always the case. You should listen to men, too, because they
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can be victims as well. Yeah, I do think that that's important to know. I was a little bit
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uncomfortable as just kind of an outside observer with the number of people that seem to exclusively
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be mocking Amber Heard and almost like lionizing Johnny Depp as just like this sweet, genteel
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Southern gentleman who has never done anything wrong. And look how wonderful his past girlfriends
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say that he is. And he is just a victim in this case. Look, he might be a victim of defamation.
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Apparently he is. But that doesn't mean that he is completely innocent. Like this really doesn't
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mean that he they didn't rule him some perfect guy. And so I did think that that dichotomy was weird.
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Like, let's totally malign Amber Heard and pretend like this guy is perfect. I think that that speaks to
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social media's pressure to pick a side. Like, do we really have to pick a side and say that he is a
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perfect guy? I'm not really sure that we do. And I think that's why social media exists in general,
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not only with just cultural phenomenons and pop culture, things like this, but also in politics
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is to push people into extremes and picking a side like that. But, you know, his team, his PR team,
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their goal with this trial was not to win money. Obviously, he doesn't care about that. It was totally
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to revamp his image because he has lost so much in the last few years. And so I think that they
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succeeded. So it'll be interesting, you know, what jobs and things that he gets after this if he really
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does start making a name for himself. I don't know if Amber is going to be essentially broke after
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this because she does not have that much money. She's not worth anything now. And now how's she
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even going to pay this 15 million? Well, her team is saying that they want her to appeal. So maybe
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she's going to appeal and try to ask for if she can pay less. Yeah. See, I was a little I'm a little
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uncomfortable about this whole PR push for Johnny Depp because I was looking at a thread and it was
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from like a liberal journalist. So they have their own perspective. But they're basically saying that
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this really has been affected by TikTok and by Instagram and just like the little edited clips that
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people see online. And it's become kind of a sport to only make fun of Amber Heard, which I think a lot
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of the criticism, as we've already said, is totally valid. And then, like I said, to try to
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almost deify Johnny Depp. And I don't want our justice system to work that way. I don't want a
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jury to be affected. I don't want a ruling to be affected by the decontextualized clips and narratives
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that you see online. Even if she is guilty, I don't think that's how we want our justice system to go
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outside of the whole like Me Too conversation. I'm not even talking about that. I'm just talking about
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justice in general. I don't know. The whole PR aspect of this for him, it just made me
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uncomfortable. Well, it begs the question in this day and age of social media and TikTok and Instagram
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and Twitter, is there even the possibility truly for people to have a fair trial anymore if you're
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ever in that situation? And that is very scary to me. Yeah, that's super scary. But I do think that
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it is important that we realize that accused people have rights, that you are innocent until
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proven guilty. I wish that we functioned more like that on social media. We typically don't.
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And there's also like, there's a biblical aspect to this. Like if you look at the Old Testament and
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like God's law giving to Israel, you see that there are rights for the accused. It's not just the
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accuser. And that was like the fatal flaw of the Me Too thing. The believe all women like really
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subverts that principle of innocent until proven guilty. It's guilty until proven innocent. And that
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really can ruin someone's life. And the Bible actually required in ancient Israel that the
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person who falsely accused someone else, say it was, of murder and would have sent that person to
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execution actually had to suffer the consequence that the accused would have had to suffer if they
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made a false allegation. And so the whole idea of someone making a false accusation of being punished
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for defamation. It goes all the way back thousands of thousands of years. And it's I mean, it's a good
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thing. It's a good thing. There should be accountability for false accusations. Absolutely. I agree.
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All right, let's move on to the next thing. I want to talk a little bit about YWLS and what it is for
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people who don't know. Starts today. I'll be there tomorrow. But let's transition into it by I guess
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continuing our conversation about women. So I think that the left thinks that I think they thought
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that back in 2018, when the whole Kavanaugh thing was happening, the Me Too was really blowing up,
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that all women would be affected by that. And then in the midterms, they would vote Democrats.
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And they kind of think that about like a lot of things like, oh, abortion, a women's issue.
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Me Too. All women are going to think the same way and feel the same way. That's how we're going to
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get them to vote Democrat. That didn't really go the way that they thought it would in 2018.
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I'm wondering if you think it's going to go that way this year in the midterms, not just when it
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comes to Roe v. Wade, but you've also got people saying, oh, we're going to kind of exploit suburban
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women's fears for their kids lives with the whole gun violence thing in order to get them to vote
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Democrat. What do you think? Well, first of all, I think it's interesting hearing the left harp on
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things like women's issues because they want to have this super broad definition of what a woman
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is, right? Anyone can be a woman. So are things really women's issues at this point? I don't
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really think that's fair. But it's interesting to me to say, we're the side that really cares about
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your children and wants to keep your kids safe unless we want to abort them. That doesn't make
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any sense to me. They're always contradicting themselves. And you have been really, I think,
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on the forefront and on the cusp of understanding the super important issue and need for the
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conservative movement to really be targeting suburban women voters. I don't feel like enough
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people in the conservative movement talk about that. You've done a really good job. If we had
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100 million Ali Stuckys that were really targeting this demographic of voters, I think we would be in
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a better position. It is interesting to think, OK, with the Roe v. Wade stuff happening this year
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and the push on gun control, which way are people going to sway in the midterms? I am really hinging
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and hoping that the economy status is going to push people a certain way, regardless of how they feel
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on those issues because of how bad things are and how dire and the formula shortage and all of those
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things. I hope that that ends up really swaying suburban moms more. But it's just really, really hard
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because you have so many women saying things like, you know, this is why when the left talks about,
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oh, well, yes, most majority of voters are pro-choice. It's like, well, when you really
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dive into that, they're, you know, pro-choice technically. But then you start asking questions
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like, well, not past the first trimester. I don't agree with these things. It's like we really have
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to educate people on those things, educating them on hardening schools. There are other solutions
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as opposed to just gun control. And that takes time to really change that mindset. Can we do that
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by September or November? I don't know. Yeah. I think that a lot of suburban moms, not all of them,
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but a lot of suburban moms have at least Christian sentiments towards things. And I think like this
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monopoly that the left has said that they have on compassion and empathy, I think that's really what
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gets a lot of suburban women. No one wants to be called a bigot. No one wants to be accused of
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lacking empathy. Plus like the biggest influencers that they follow on Instagram, Glennon Doyle,
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Brene Brown, I would say one other one that claims that she's unbiased, but is not.
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Gosh, can I just say Brene Brown is a snake in the grass. I will say that.
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I will say that. But I have so many girls that will, you know, look at this video,
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this snippet of her speech and stuff. I'm like, that is, she is totally in that very,
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you know, tiptoeing around like the new age stuff and everything.
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Oh, she 100% is. And she's very pro abortion. She's pro every left wing issue that she can
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possibly think of, including transitioning kids. So is Jen Hatmaker. And these are the people that
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a lot of suburban women are going to. And they think that they're informed because they read an
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infographic of decontextualized data, pseudo data from someone like Brene Brown. And I think all of us,
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myself included, are susceptible to emotional manipulation. But when those are the only people
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that you go to, I think it's very easy to be swayed into voting Democrat because you think that's
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compassionate. And that drives me crazy. I mean, that just drives me wild.
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When they have this fear of, you know, so for example, this week with obviously gay pride month
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starting, Poplitics, my daily show, we posted a graphic that said, you know, men are not women
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or men cannot be women, something like that. And we, I purposely, I said, let's use hashtags
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like pride and pride month. So that to gin up some controversy. Oh yeah. And it did. So what were
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some of the comments? So some of the comments were, wow, this is a cool take. Yeah. You just
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want people to die. You, you're pro trans kids dying. And it's like, okay, you know, one of my
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favorite people who has really tackled this issue is a journalist, Abigail Schreier, who you've talked
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to on your show and I've talked to her and she's so good about talking about, you know,
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the left and especially the alphabet mafia preys on these suburban women telling them like, of
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course, you don't want kids to commit suicide, right? By not affirming their transgender identities
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and all of this different stuff. And she's like, there is zero data to prove that once they
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transition, that all of a sudden, you know, their suicidal thoughts and ideations go down. It stays
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the same. And I brought this up. I was thinking the other day, I thought, you know, whatever happened
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to that jazz Jennings girl, TLC, I am jazz or guy heart. Yeah. And so jazz Jennings transitions.
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His parents have him transitioned before puberty. And now he is in college, uh, has full sex
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reassignment surgery. So they made him a vagina. Okay. And he has to dilate it every day, every day
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and doesn't like doing it all the time because there was an episode where the mother, where jazz's
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mother said, you better be doing this. We paid all this money on for your surgery and you're not even
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really keeping up with it. Uh, morbidly obese, severe depression, binge eating disorder, all these
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different things that jazz has been open about lately. And it's like, how can you look at that
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and say like, they're living the picture perfect life now. Nothing has gotten better for him. Um,
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but that's just one of many issues. But I think that's the sad thing is again, one of those
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lies that we have to be better about explaining to people. It's not compassionate to transition these
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kids before puberty. Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. And there was something, I don't know if you've
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seen Matt Walsh's what is a woman documentary. I have been, as soon as YB less is over, I've been
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like swamped in this. I am so looking forward to watching it. I mean, it's laugh out loud,
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funny on some parts just because he is like, you know, his dry humor is so funny. And then other
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parts are super sad and I don't want to give too much away. I want people to go watch it. We talked
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about it yesterday, but at one point he talks to, um, uh, a person who is a woman transition into a
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man, I think regrets the transition very much. She was just always told by people, you know,
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you're more like a guy, you're an alpha female, whatever. So transition said that she has infections
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every year. She's gone through 17 rounds of antibiotics because she had like a failioplasty
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where basically they make a penis out of like the skin in her arm said that she's probably going to
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die early just because of the health complications that she's had. And she said, look, this entrapped me
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when I was 42 years old, I believed the propaganda and the manipulation that people are telling me
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like young kids, kids do not stand a chance because kids are extremely malleable. They're
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extremely open to influence. If someone in authority, like a teacher says, you know what,
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I've noticed that you like playing with dolls. Why don't you come in here in the closet and try
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on a dress and see how you like it? You might actually be a girl, which is something that is
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happening on a daily basis in the United States. Then of course that kid, the power of suggestion
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is so strong. And then as you said, the manipulation for the mother that, well, you have to affirm this
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or you're going to have a dead kid. There's no data showing that the suicide rate for trans people
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is most seven to 10 years after transition. It's very, very interesting. And you know,
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Jazz Jennings too, he has had to have multiple, after he had his first sex reassignment surgery,
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he's had to go back and had multiple other ones because it's not going right. Things are getting
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infected and stuff. Yes. And your body is going to be infected. And just a note for people,
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maybe you're watching this for the first time. We do use biological pronouns on this show because
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we don't, we don't believe that it is loving to lie about someone. And because I believe that people
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are made male and female in God's image and people's bodies and biology and DNA is really good.
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That's what I want to affirm. I'm not going to be forced to affirm a lie and something that I
00:22:11.200
actually think is very destructive for the individual and for society. I think the hard thing is,
00:22:17.000
for conservatives, is that we have such an uphill battle to explain to people why something isn't
00:22:23.080
compassionate. It's easy to just say, well, for the left, they can just say, this is what it means
00:22:27.480
to be a good person. And then conservatives have to say, well, well, well, sit around while I'll
00:22:32.680
explain and give you facts and data. And it can be harder to grab people's attention for that.
00:22:37.540
Well, we know based on scripture that obviously, Jesus talks about how it's not going to be easy
00:22:42.540
being a Christian. It's also the same. I'm being a conservative. And so I talk about this
00:22:48.320
whole thing in my YWL speech that comes out tonight. I don't know when this podcast is coming
00:22:53.000
out. It's coming out today. Okay, perfect. So today, so when I speak tonight, I'm really going
00:22:56.960
to talk about this is that it is, we are going to have a bullseye on us. We are going to have a
00:23:02.660
target on us. You have to start being comfortable living with that bullseye on you. Be proud to have a
00:23:08.460
bullseye on you that people are going to be coming after you. If they're not coming after you, if
00:23:12.100
they're not hating you, then you're not doing something right. We are going to be hated and
00:23:16.680
we're going to be misunderstood. But standing for truth, sometimes that's what it's going to take.
00:23:22.400
And I think a lot of times, young conservative women, especially, we still struggle with that.
00:23:27.860
We want to be liked. We don't like people that we went to high school with that actually know us
00:23:31.040
personally. And it's always the people that know you personally. That's who hurts you the most.
00:23:34.500
It's the people that you went, you know, that you were in biology class with in ninth grade.
00:23:37.760
It's the people that, you know, you were a nanny to their kids growing up. That were in your wedding.
00:23:42.360
That happens. And it's when those people say you're a bad person, you're like, but you know me.
00:23:46.920
You know, I'm not. You know that I'm not. And so that's where it's like, ah, should I be saying
00:23:51.780
the wrong pronoun? Should I do this so that people don't think that about me? And we have to be
00:23:56.260
comfortable losing a few of those people in our life. But you will gain more. You will make other
00:24:01.860
friends. And, you know, that's happened with me, too. Just working at Turning Point. I lost so many people.
00:24:13.240
Yeah. So talk a little bit more about that, because it's hard in the moment. I've experienced
00:24:19.160
that, too. Someone that, you know, actually, someone said something because I was talking
00:24:23.860
about someone that I knew I was, you know, very close to in college and then just ended up she
00:24:29.280
was so rude about me publicly saying things that just, like, weren't true, maligned me because we
00:24:34.940
disagreed on abortion. And it was wild. And I actually tried to reach out and reconcile with
00:24:38.560
this person and talk to this person. No response. And so that was very hurtful. People have walked
00:24:43.740
through that. There's a couple people, actually, that I can think of that were like that. And then
00:24:47.360
someone messaged me because I kind of talked about this on Instagram the other day and said
00:24:50.660
something that I actually think is true. She said, you know, a lot of times with those friends that you
00:24:54.700
used to think were friends, there were red flags along the way. There were some red flags before
00:25:00.000
they turned your back. You kind of knew that they were snooty. You kind of knew that they were
00:25:03.400
gossipy. You kind of knew that maybe they weren't a good friend. And thinking back on this person,
00:25:07.700
I'm like, yeah, actually, there were people who told me that she, you know, was a jealous,
00:25:13.880
gossipy, not good friend person. And I held on for who knows what reason. So also remember
00:25:18.880
that these lost friendships because of what you believe could also be the grace of God
00:25:22.860
protecting you. I think that's absolutely true. And I also think one thing I'm 29. So I'll be 30
00:25:29.220
next year. And one thing that I've really learned in my 20s is that there's an art to knowing how to
00:25:35.300
respectfully and lovingly break up with friends. Yeah. How do you do that? I think sometimes they'll
00:25:41.540
break up with you. And usually they're not very graceful. But I think there's just a way to,
00:25:48.140
you know, slowly but surely just kind of, you're not inviting them to things, you know, but it's
00:25:53.220
not a mean, like, I'm going to block you and unfollow you and do all these things. You can
00:25:56.540
still follow each other on social media and maybe you like their posts. How do you know when to do
00:25:59.560
that? Like, how do you know when to say, okay, yeah, we disagree on this, but we're going to
00:26:03.420
remain friends because we're both Christians or we, you know, whatever the commonality is. And when
00:26:07.620
do you know that's like, you know what, this is just not a good, it's not a good friendship
00:26:11.440
anymore. Well, I think it's, you know, are they, are you sharpening their iron? Are they sharpening
00:26:18.340
yours? Are you making each other dull? Are you feeding into each other in a good way? Do you
00:26:24.420
feel uplifted after you hang out with this person or do you feel drained? Those types of things. Do
00:26:28.880
you, do you feel better about yourself? Do you feel encouraged? Is this person encouraging you on
00:26:32.600
your walk with Christ? My best friend Lauren is here watching us film. And I mean, Lauren is the first
00:26:38.580
person in my life to call me out when I do something good and encourage me to be like,
00:26:42.040
that was awesome. I'm so proud of you. Or to be like, what were you thinking? This was a terrible
00:26:45.140
decision. I mean, she is, she is like that, but that's a true friend. And I think, you know, do
00:26:49.380
you feel like you have to walk on eggshells in front of that person? Or can you be honest with each
00:26:53.160
other and hold each other accountable in things? Because even as Christians, we all sin, we all make
00:26:58.060
mistakes, but is your other Christian friend willing to have those conversations with you? I know Lauren
00:27:02.180
and I are willing to have those conversations, but if you have friends that you feel like I can't even be
00:27:05.860
honest with them, you know, that's probably not a good, mature, healthy friendship. Yeah. Yeah. And I
00:27:11.800
think it is like, it goes on a kind of a case by case basis. And I think that's a good distinction
00:27:16.700
that you just explained. You're not saying that friendships should be absence of conflict. You're
00:27:21.100
actually saying, what does the conflict actually look like? How are you working through it? Yes. Is it
00:27:25.040
in a way that is toxic and that is, you know, degrading to you or is just not healthy? Or is it a way
00:27:33.240
that you work through the conflict and you're actually stronger because of it? Because I do
00:27:36.920
think the world kind of tells us secular psychology says, oh, as soon as you don't feel good in a
00:27:41.140
relationship or as soon as a friendship isn't perfect or as soon as someone doesn't tell you
00:27:44.920
everything you want to hear, cut that person out of your life. That's not what we're saying.
00:27:49.280
We're saying, is the relationship actually healthy? How are you working through disagreements
00:27:53.020
and conflicts? There's a way to do it. There's a way not to do it. How, what other advice would you
00:27:58.980
give someone who maybe they're on a college campus, maybe they're in high school, maybe they're just,
00:28:02.780
you know, a mom in the neighborhood. They really want like-minded friends, but they're struggling
00:28:07.660
finding that community. I think it can make all the difference, but where does someone start if
00:28:11.620
they don't know where? It is so awkward, but I am dead serious. You will just see a girl that
00:28:16.600
looks cute. Maybe you're at the park. I mean, it's almost like how you pick up, you know, a guy or
00:28:21.100
something or, you know, they pick up you like you got to almost like go out there and go on little
00:28:25.980
girlfriend dates. You know, Lauren and I, I was on the radio before I worked for Turning Point. I did
00:28:31.880
radio and Lauren was a listener of my show and just emailed me. He was like, I'm a fan of your show
00:28:36.900
and whatever. And I was like, let's go get brunch. It is awkward as adults. It is very hard to make
00:28:41.360
friends as adults, but sometimes it is really just, Hey, you know, I, you're always at the park here.
00:28:45.480
And, um, I know you don't know me or whatever, but I live around the corner and like, would you ever
00:28:49.560
want to go get a latte together sometime? And we can get to know each other. And look, just like when
00:28:54.020
you're dating guys, you might go on a friend date and be like, I have nothing in common with this
00:28:58.420
girl. I'll never talk to her again, but you know, I know her name. If I need, you know, if I need help
00:29:02.360
at the park or something or, uh, at the grocery store, she's a neighbor. I can go get sugar from
00:29:06.200
if I need it. Like you can at least, you know, make acquaintances that way, or you might go out
00:29:10.440
with somebody and be like, Oh my gosh, like I have so much in common with this girl. You know,
00:29:14.060
I'd love to hang out there saying hi to people at gym class, uh, linking up in your local Republicans
00:29:19.900
clubs. Um, I think that's super important. All of those different types of things. Um, you know,
00:29:25.240
there's a lot of really good local Facebook groups for people where they live. And that is
00:29:31.220
how I've made a lot of friends. And a lot of my friends have made friends is, is based on interest
00:29:35.480
like the local, you know, running group for your town or a mommy and me group or homeschool group.
00:29:40.380
They all have Facebook groups and they're usually all getting together. And that's a really good,
00:29:43.660
easy place to start. But also, um, you know, it's a really good, uh, little tip is like,
00:29:49.760
if you follow Ali Stuckey and Ali posts a video, just like click on people that are commenting on her
00:29:54.640
stuff. And like, I always look at people's profiles who are interacting on the same accounts
00:29:58.500
that I do. And then just, you know, what if you click on somebody's profile and it's like, Oh,
00:30:01.700
they live in Scottsdale where I live. And then I just DM them like, Oh my gosh, you're a fan of
00:30:05.320
Ali. I am. This is so random, but I live in Scottsdale. I happen to find your profile. We should
00:30:09.160
get together sometime. We're both relatable fans. Like that's a very easy, you know, in with somebody.
00:30:14.100
And of course, coming to events like the young women's leadership summit, which by the way,
00:30:18.040
is not just for young women. It's just for all ages.
00:30:20.660
Yeah. There's like a broad definition of that. Yes. All as long as you're a biological woman,
00:30:24.700
you can come. Yeah. But anyone is welcome at these turning point events. And these are the
00:30:28.420
best ways to meet friends. Yes. Yes. Okay. Speaking of dating, we only have a few minutes left,
00:30:34.360
but speaking of dating, how is that as a conservative Christian woman in this world of dating apps and
00:30:42.100
everything is hyperpolitical and online, what's that been like? I know you're in a serious relationship,
00:30:46.780
but I'm in a serious relationship, but I have been, Oh my gosh. I mean, I've talked about on
00:30:50.320
my podcast, the spillover. I have had some crazy dating experiences throughout my twenties. I've
00:30:54.640
dated any type of guy you can think of and dealt with every single thing you can think of.
00:30:58.160
And one thing I've learned is that I know that it was like an old taboo that on the first date,
00:31:02.080
you never bring up politics, religion. I absolutely disagree with that. Yeah. On the first date,
00:31:06.480
you should be saying what you were looking for, what your political beliefs are. Hey, I am really,
00:31:11.820
I, it is important to me to get married and I want to have kids. You know,
00:31:15.080
what is your timeline looking like? What are you looking for? Are you looking just to date casually
00:31:18.920
or are you dating for marriage? I bring all that up. And you know what, if that scares them and
00:31:23.080
freaks a guy out, then he isn't ready and that's okay. And then you're just like, okay, cool. I
00:31:27.120
didn't waste my time, but guys will make it very clear and intentional. I am ready for dating only
00:31:34.480
just a casual dating relationship, or I am looking to date and find someone to marry. And I'm looking for
00:31:39.320
that, you know, in the next year or so, two years. And I think it's okay to ask those things and say
00:31:43.320
what you want. Yeah. So with this current relationship, y'all talked about that on the
00:31:46.640
first date. Oh yeah. Yeah. Well, you already knew his political leanings. I knew his political
00:31:50.880
leanings because he worked at Turning Point. So that was easy. That was easy. So that was easy. But
00:31:54.780
no, we, we did talk about all that stuff. And, um, we ended up, we, we were out, we were out at the
00:32:01.720
same restaurant bar situation. I was there with girlfriends and he and his friend showed up and we
00:32:06.500
just started talking because we knew each other from work. And then after that night, he immediately
00:32:10.980
texted me the next day and said like, Hey, I want to take you out to dinner. And ever since that he
00:32:15.940
called me every single night at dinner to ask me about my day, um, you know, pursued me, made it
00:32:21.620
known what his intentions are. And then even still now we're talking about a timeline of, okay, when
00:32:26.560
would it be realistic for us to be engaged? He's in California. I'm in Arizona. So there's a, well,
00:32:30.880
we're trying to figure that out because my show and everything, my shows are filmed in Arizona and he
00:32:34.940
has to live in orange County. So that's one of those things that we're like, we're figuring out what we
00:32:38.660
would do with that. But you know, it is something that we're discussing. It's not like it's the
00:32:42.680
elephant in the room. He knows that I'm like, Hey, I'm 29. I always make the joke. I'm like,
00:32:47.880
I'm drying up. My eggs are drying up. We need to, I need a plan. But, um, so no, he knows I really
00:32:54.240
want to get married and have kids. So it's very open and that's good. But you know, if he started
00:32:58.420
hesitating on that and stuff, it would be very sad and it would break my heart, but I'd have to
00:33:02.720
figure out how to, how to cut the ties. Yeah. So advice for here, I want two different kinds
00:33:14.380
of advice. One advice for the single girl who is just demoralized by dating. Okay. So she's on her
00:33:19.700
dating apps, people on there, sometimes they say they're a Christian, but then you meet them and
00:33:23.960
you're like, not really. You're not on the same page with me theologically. And so they just feel
00:33:27.980
like, Oh my gosh, I want to give up. So one advice for that, just some like motivation and
00:33:31.860
encouragement for that person. And also for the girl who's in a relationship. And I love talking
00:33:37.420
to this kind of person who's in a relationship because you've gone through a lot of breakups
00:33:40.760
too. She knows it's wrong. She knows this is not the right person, but she's scared to end it
00:33:46.380
because maybe she's 29, 30, maybe she's 35 and she's afraid that she's not going to find someone.
00:33:52.780
Where does she get the courage to just not settle? So let's start with number one,
00:33:57.400
the demoralized dater. All right. For the demoralized dater, I would say
00:34:00.860
that we really have to stop looking in this as I'm talking to myself, but we have to stop looking
00:34:07.260
at singleness as a curse and look at it as a gift. Sometimes for that period in your life,
00:34:12.980
I think God really wants us to own our singleness and there's work for the kingdom that he is wanting
00:34:18.040
us to do. And that's going, you have to think about like, maybe that's something that needs to be
00:34:21.840
done now because obviously when you're a mom and when you're a wife, you're going to have other
00:34:26.120
responsibilities and things you need to do. But now is the time that you can go out on the mission
00:34:29.740
field or you can start a new podcast or, you know, change your career up or whatever it is that God
00:34:35.500
has planned for you. And you need to do that now. And that's something that I really had to,
00:34:40.460
in the time before I was in a serious relationship, really be in prayer and thinking about that.
00:34:45.680
So I struggle with that, number one. So I will be the first one to say that. So I would, I would be,
00:34:50.180
you know, in prayer and thinking about that. And then for the person who's in a relationship
00:34:54.940
that is just knowing that this isn't the right thing, you really should be leaning on your other
00:35:00.520
Christian girlfriends for this and be like, Hey, I need you to hold me accountable that I'm having
00:35:04.760
these conversations with him. Um, and being respectful to him also in your breakup and being
00:35:10.560
honest, so honest, because if you are having the whole right now thing. Yeah, it is not. I would say
00:35:16.000
this and I'm at that age where it's like scary. Like I really feel like I need to be getting
00:35:20.520
married soon and having kids soon because I don't want to be an older mother personally.
00:35:24.040
That's just not my choice. Some people that is their choice, but I would like to have all that
00:35:27.960
sooner rather than later. But you know, if the day came where my current boyfriend, for example,
00:35:32.580
all of a sudden something changed and I thought this isn't right, even though I'm at the age where I
00:35:36.340
really want to get married, I would rather break up with him instead of jumping into a marriage,
00:35:41.260
which we believe obviously is for a turn or, you know, till death that I am miserable or things
00:35:47.340
are wrong. Um, and so you really have to, is it going to be, you know, a few months or maybe a few
00:35:52.040
years of uncomfortable versus being with the love of your life, the God, the guy that God has planned
00:35:56.340
for you forever. I mean, that's better, more of a better trade-off. I think it's better to be single
00:36:03.360
than sad, single and sad than married and trapped. Oh, well, you know, and there's, you know,
00:36:10.620
somebody that I know that is in that type of situation, uh, where she does is starting to
00:36:15.540
feel married and trapped and like, Oh no, I ignored so many red flags. I've made a huge mistake.
00:36:20.860
And that is that I would say, arguably she has the kids and she does have a beautiful home and she has
00:36:26.780
the husband, but she is so miserable. And so as miserable as you feel single and like, I would
00:36:30.720
just die to have a husband and kids. You don't want to have the wrong husband. You don't want to
00:36:35.120
settle. No, because that really is for life. You're also marrying their family. And I will say for the
00:36:40.240
person who is in that position, like God can redeem anything. Even if you are in a marriage where you
00:36:45.760
feel trapped, like you have no idea what God can do in and through that. So I don't want you to think
00:36:51.420
that it's total lost cause. You're just going to spend the rest of your life like miserable and
00:36:55.380
trapped. Maybe not. You have no idea how God can work through that season. Marriages go through
00:36:59.460
different seasons and different feelings and things like that. So be careful also, because Satan will
00:37:03.980
also use those feelings to tempt you to infidelity and to covetousness and things like that.
00:37:08.540
So make sure that in those situations that you are still seeking the Lord and seeking
00:37:12.340
Christian community, but also for the person, as you said, who is engaged, even if you're
00:37:16.760
engaged, even if your wedding is tomorrow and you've had that conviction from the Holy
00:37:20.780
Spirit, something's been telling you. I had that at a previous relationship. There was nothing
00:37:24.980
on paper, but something was telling me from the very beginning, this is not right. This
00:37:29.080
is not right. This is not right. You, and I just, I wanted it because it looked good on
00:37:34.160
paper. I always wanted to get married right after college and thank the Lord. I look back
00:37:38.960
and I'm like, Oh my gosh, thank you, Lord. But do not ignore that conviction. Do not ignore
00:37:44.900
You know what I think actually would be really helpful that I don't think a lot of, uh,
00:37:48.260
enough Christians anyway are talking about is I actually think premarital counseling before
00:37:51.740
getting engaged is a good idea. If you're dating seriously and you're like, I think we want
00:37:55.200
to get engaged. I say do the premarital counseling before the engagement, because that's a lot easier
00:38:00.240
to break up before the engagement than being engaged and then break up before the marriage.
00:38:03.700
Yeah. If you're in a serious position, there are some churches that have like programs like
00:38:08.580
that, or at least like if you know a godly couple, at least have them like informally sit
00:38:13.680
down with you and ask you some questions or like the campus minister of like an organization
00:38:19.000
at your college or pastor, even if you can't afford to like pay a counselor to sit down with
00:38:24.300
you in a formal way, I think you're right. Get some godly, older, wise people to ask you
00:38:28.860
some tough questions so that y'all can have some soul searching. I think that's a really good
00:38:32.520
piece of advice. All right. Um, one, do you have anything final to say about why WLS, what people
00:38:40.300
can expect, what you're excited about, and also where can people find you in your podcast if they
00:38:44.800
don't already listen? Turning Point USA's Young Women's Leadership Summit is an event that happens
00:38:49.320
every year exclusively for women in the conservative movement. It's so fun. It is so fun. And if you've
00:38:55.420
never been to an event for conservatives before, I'm just telling you, if you've never been to a
00:39:00.560
Turning Point event, it is night and day. We've got pyrotechnics and confetti shooting. And why
00:39:06.800
WLS is fun? Because every year is a different theme. And so last year, it was like pink and Barbie. The
00:39:12.300
whole thing was capitalist Barbie. Like Barbie in America gets to live in her dream house and do all
00:39:16.300
these things because she lives under capitalism. And so that was last year. This year, the theme
00:39:20.880
is darker and edgy. There's lots of black and then pink and purple and, you know, storms and
00:39:26.220
lightnings. And it's like, we are angry in the last, uh, definitely, you know, since President
00:39:31.560
Biden, uh, came into office, we're angry. We're not happy with the direction things are going. Okay.
00:39:36.260
So now we're really mad. Now, how are we going to channel that into activism and really make a
00:39:41.340
difference and how it's okay to be angry, but then what do you do with that? Um, and especially in a
00:39:45.760
midterm year, how important that is. So that's really the theme this year. So I told Allie and you know how
00:39:49.920
Allie is. I mean, look at her, look at her set. If you're watching on her YouTube channel, like
00:39:53.340
Allie is so bright and cheery and soft and pastels and all this. And I was like, you got to bring out
00:39:58.980
your inner, like angry kind of emo Allie chick. Emo Allie. Oh, people know I can. Yeah. She told me
00:40:05.420
a couple of months ago, I told her what I was planning on wearing and she was like, oh, the theme
00:40:08.580
is black. And I was like, oh, dang it. Okay. But no, I've adjusted. I've adjusted for it. She's going to
00:40:13.120
look great. She showed me what she's wearing. It's super, super cute. So anyway, that's going to be
00:40:16.900
really fun. Um, but if you didn't get to make it this year, you really, really should try
00:40:20.960
to make it next year. And, um, it's just people leave these events, uh, at least the turning
00:40:26.460
point women's one, especially with lifelong friendships. Like we were talking about the
00:40:30.540
girls that are going to be, you know, your future bridesmaids and stuff. It's incredible.
00:40:33.140
So I recommend that I have two shows, a daily show called pop politics on Instagram, where
00:40:38.720
I cover pop culture from a conservative perspective. And then I have a weekly podcast called the
00:40:44.120
spillover anywhere you get your podcast. And I interview, uh, dynamic personalities and
00:40:49.100
people that have jaw dropping stories. Allie was one of them. And we talked about the dark
00:40:52.520
side of the birthing business. Yes. So fun. I've interviewed all kinds of people from serial
00:40:56.800
killer survivors. And she really do have like such incredible interviews. I love listening
00:41:03.080
to them. I mean, I love both shows, but like, it's so interesting, the guests that you have
00:41:07.020
and, you know, Alex does, if you don't already know, you don't already follow her, which I know
00:41:11.080
that we have huge crossover in our audiences. So a lot of people are already familiar, but
00:41:14.680
for those who don't like Alex really does a very unique thing. I don't know if there's
00:41:18.540
anyone that talks about pop culture, especially as consistently and as well, and as interestingly
00:41:23.740
as Alex does. So if you don't tune into her stuff, like I really, really recommend that
00:41:29.340
you do because it's such a unique angle. And I think it's so important for us. We don't
00:41:33.840
just have to be like academic and dry and philosophical all the time. I love that stuff. I love,
00:41:41.060
I love talking about that. And there's a time and a place for that, but look, that's not
00:41:44.100
for everyone. And so like, we need different kinds of voices, different kinds of people,
00:41:48.680
different kinds of angles to appeal to like the wide range of people that are out there.
00:41:52.380
Alex does that really well in a very bold way. So thank you for that.
00:41:55.240
Thank you, Allie. And Allie kills it with, you know, theology and talking about politics
00:41:59.240
and all that stuff. She owns that space. And I think that's a fun thing. If you're,
00:42:02.860
if you're somebody that desires a career in the conservative movement or media
00:42:06.700
in the conservative movement is figuring out what your niche is and, you know, Allie has found hers
00:42:11.460
and owning that one specific thing. You don't have to be a catch all person that talks about
00:42:15.880
anything and everything. I don't do that. I'm not talking theology. That's not my strength.
00:42:19.480
That's Allie's, but I love talking pop culture and I love true crime and all that. So I kind of do
00:42:24.600
that and you can still be a conservative and, you know, have more of a fun or entertaining show
00:42:29.560
and stuff like that. So I like being able to be that person. And I kind of explain it as like,
00:42:33.540
I like being a hostess to the conservative movement. Like I like welcoming people in that
00:42:37.580
are very scared of conservatives and are weary of super deep, you know, conversations. I just
00:42:42.220
welcome them in. I'm like, look, we're fun. We're normal. We like all the same stuff. And then,
00:42:45.960
you know, people like Allie and Charlie Kirk and Ben Shapiro, you guys can do the full red pill.
00:42:49.960
You're the gateway. I just like being the gateway drug to conservatism.
00:42:57.620
Yeah, that's so funny. Well, thank you so much for what you do. Thanks for taking the time to come on.
00:43:01.220
Super excited about YWLS. It's going to be amazing. And yeah, everyone can find you on
00:43:05.800
Instagram, Twitter, all the good stuff. Yes. At Real Alex Clark and the Spillover Podcast.